Latest / Yaron Brook Show / Conversation with Nikos Sotirakopoulos -- Socialists of the Right | Yaron Brook Show

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Conversation with Nikos Sotirakopoulos -- Socialists of the Right | Yaron Brook Show · Yaron Brook Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: A lot of funds of aldo little self interesting and
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: an individual loss.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: This is the show, Oh right, everybody walk up to
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: your one book show on this Monday, December twenty nine.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: And I am super happy to have Nikos join us
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: from Greece Athens.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I assume Athens somewhere somewhere there, somewhere.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: There, somewhere in the outskirts of Athens, in the in
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: the land of Greek philosophy. We wish, right, it would
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: be nice if if Greek philosophy had an impact on
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Greece of today, that would be amazing. But but yes,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: thanks Nicos for joining us. I know it's I know
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: it's laid over there, so I appreciate it.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: It's becoming a tradition.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Right last year, we had a discussion around this time
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: of the year.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: It was very cool. So let's make it a thing.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know. I don't know we did it
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: at the same time of year. Okay, we'll make it
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: a thing. The the the interview before New Years is
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: a Nicos interview. We'll just make that. I'll let Angela
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: know and we'll just book it in advance. So you know,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: it's been a busy year. It's been an interesting year.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: So you kind of specialize in intellectually on kind of
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: the far left and the far right of the political
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: ideological spectrum. Uh, and it's been an interesting year for you, right.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, unfortunately.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been quite busy, so I take people for
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: tours in the Museum of Horror, horror of history, but
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: also horror of the present.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: So it's it's I think we were among the.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: First people who years ago we noticed something that is
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: happening in the right, that the right is more and
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: more trying to cut ties from a classical liberalism. They
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: view the relationship with classical liberalism as a liability, as
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a problem.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: And I remember where I was.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I was in Lathbourg University when I first heard you
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: talk about the alt right. That was two thousand and fifteen,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Very few people were talking about the alt
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: right back then, and here we are in nine years later,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: and what developed out from the altright now has audience
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: of tens of millions of people.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: So yeah, definitely something is happening there.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I remember during Trump campaign, that's when
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: the out right came out, and then you know, they
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: got involved in by I think Charlottesville, But I think
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I predicted at the time that they would increase an
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: influence on the right because there was really no opposition
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: to them anyway.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and to to give to people some notion of
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: how fair it seems from today that you were talking
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: mostly about people like Milo Yanopulos even and remembers him
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: and Richard Spencer. So the persona of the Ultraine back
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: then is Richard Spencer. Of course, if you compare Richard
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Spencer to the figures that are today the new Right,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Richard Spencer in retrospect looks like this very serious intellectual
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: compared to what we have today. But yeah, that's a
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: little bit who.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Richard Spencer was, because I don't I don't think people
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: remember him. My loss still around. I just saw him
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: some podcasts accusing Nick Fuentes being accusing everybody being they
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: all homosexual, but accusing him of all kinds of things,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: raping little boys, you know, he was. He was accusing
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: all kinds of people of all kinds of stuff. And
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it was Charlie Cook, you know,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: was a bad guy. He's just he hasn't changed one bit.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: He still is nutty, you know, But he's not taken
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: quite as seriously today as he was based.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that all tried came out, let's say, of
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: the paleo conservative movement. So Spencer himself, now it's not
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: very fresh in my memory, but he was working in
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: the Taki magazine. Tacky magazine was this kind of paleo
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: conservative stuff. So they were the first people in the
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: who understood that the climate is very fertile for racial thinking.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: So they said, look, everyone out there is talking about
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: their identity.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Black people are talking about their identity.
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  Speaker 1: It's time also for us for white to talk about
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: our identity. And of course, this within a few years,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: as it was one hundred percent predictable, this became indeed
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: the trend. So of course Richard Spencer was still talking
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the language of let's say the old white nationalist fused
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: a bit with the critical race theory type of language.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: You know, they talked about that they need to be
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: let's say protected, they need to be recognized, that need
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: to be viewed, they need to be seen.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: As white as white people.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't anymore so much white supremacy that we
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: are we are the best, and we are the most powerful.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: It's more white vulnerability right, because this was the currency
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: that was working, This was the current that was selling
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: that we are in need of protection. Everyone is offered protection.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Now it's time for us to be offered protection. Now
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: he got you know, he got involved with the tragedy
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: and the de buckle in Charlottesville, so soon he was
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: not as relevant. Later he tried to rediscover himself as
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: something else. But but it's interesting if you see, for example,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: today Nick Fuentes, who doesn't even have this, let's say,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: claim to intellectuality. So if you if you view, for example,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: figures white national like Jared Taylor, you know there were
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: people who would present yourself, I'm cultured, I aspire to
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: this higher sense of Western civilization, all the stuff. Whereas
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: today it's more like it's it's it appeals to what
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: is the worst in all of us. You know, we
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: are too lazy to get involved with ideas. It's just
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: about you know, trolling, talk about the last stupid conspiracy theory,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: just blame the Jews.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: So even even if you go to.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: That corner of that freak show, corner of the how
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you want to qualify right, even here you see a
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: rapid dropping for lack of a better world, quality of
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: of of of the discourse.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: There to what extent If they all become Milo in
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: a sense.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: The question is, yeah, they become more like Milo. But
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the question is, so, there's no question Milo was very clever,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: like he was one of the first like self entrepreneurs
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: of the troll era. This he made himself as this
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: as this troll. So when you see someone like Tacker,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: for example, like, I don't know, I'm interested in your view.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Does he believe these things or is he too clever?
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: And he sees that, oh, this is my audience, the
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: audience like I'm gonna bring this random guy and said, hey,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: here's a homeless guy who had sex with Obama and
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: they're gonna buy. So it's a question whether they have
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: dropped their own standards to meet their audience, or they
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: actually believe these.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: Things, or there's something else happening.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know, money or serious problems in their head.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know, what do you think?
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I think something. It's hard for me to say about Tucker.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, I remember Taker fifteen years ago, twenty years ago.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: He was a bow tie wearing kind of libertarian heritage foundation,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: like the libertarian at heritage. He was a free market
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: guy at a conservative place, and then he got involve
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: in Fox and and I think the dynamics of appeal,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: and he got involved with Trump, and I think, look,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: we can talk about this, but I think Trump Trump's
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: assent changed everything. I mean it it were, we are
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: in it everything. I mean, they had idea shape history,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: but you know, the particulars are determined by the particulars
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: and the particular people. And I think Trump changed everything.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And I think Tucker got caught up in a in
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: in the masses, in the in the in the glory
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: of of appealing to large audiences. I mean when he
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: took over his big show on Fox, he took it
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: over from I forget the guy's name. I used to
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: be on the show, but I forget no, not Hannity.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: It was a guy from the from the two thousands
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: who I was on a show and Lennard was on
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: a show. Anyway, it doesn't matter. But he got a
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: large audience and he you could see he slowly shifted
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Bill O'Reilly, thank you, somebody said, Billy. He slowly shifted
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: more and more and more to the crazy, and he
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: was constrained by the corporate entity of Fox, and then
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: when he left Fox, he was unconstrained. Now, whether he
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: went crazy, and you know the fact that he can
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: tell you with a straight face, the demons attacked him
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: as bad and he's got the scratches to prove it.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: And all that suggests to me that something psychological, something mental,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: has happened to him. Is he also paid by the Kataris?
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Is he also just cynical and thinks the world is
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: a horrible place? And who cares? You know? Possibly? So
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I think he believed some of it, and I think
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: that I think that he is cynical about other stuff.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: And you know what, maybe at the end of the
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: day doesn't really matter, because Okay, let's say Tiger went crazy.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Let's say even condes Owens went crazy.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Cans that they have smart. Candas was never smart. Cannas
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: was never smart. Candice would would. I mean, she was
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: discovered basically by Charlie Cook, and she would basically repeat
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Charlie's talking points. So she was very good at whatever
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: she was fed. Because she was a woman in black,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: she had her own audience, and she could repeat those
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: things and and get and and gain credible, gain audience.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: But then as soon as she came to say things
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: that no one else could. I remember so was the
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: first person who said, you know what, George Floyd might
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: not be the hero you think is. And back then
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: we're like, wow, this is all so grave. But at
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, it doesn't matter what these
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: individuals are, because what mothers is they have millions of followers.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Sometimes Spotify releases this data and you see which are
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: the most popular podcasts, and quite often they are top
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: five or sometimes even the top three.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, and so they have a massive audience. And
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: you know, you're right. They're non intellectual, none of them,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, the complete nutcases, right, I mean, and you
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: see the people Tucker brings on. So tucka is the
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: most mainstream of them, right, And he could have anybody
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: come on the show pretty much, you know, anybody would
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: come in the show. And the people he brings on
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: are these you know, none of them are intellectually of
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: any significance. Even the racist. He could find a good racist.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, he could find an intellectual racist, but he
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: doesn't even do that. The people he brings on the margins,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: they're not very smart, they're not able. They come up
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: with the weirdest, stupidest conspiracy theories that are easy to debunk.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, it really takes five minutes. And what they're
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: praying us is laziness, right, I mean the laziness of
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: the public and emotionalism, not even to check, not even
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: to care.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: He's a bit I wonder if he's a bit like this,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: why not or even do diac who says, I will
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: serve you anything and you will buy it, Like I
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: will said with this this what was this woman from
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: the Middle East who said that, oh yeah, Israel is
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: persecuting Christians And as you said, it takes two minutes
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: of googling to figure out this is a crazy narrative,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: but no, you will buy it. I will bring you
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: a homeless person who claims he had sex with gay
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: sex with Obama, and you will buy this. Is it's
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: almost not bulling his audience, but almost I don't know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: it's it's almost.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Daring his audience. How far can I take it?
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I'll take it even farther and you will fall for
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: this because this is who you are.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: That's a good point, I think. I think I think
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: maybe that's part of what drives him. Is it is
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: just to show how exactly that two e kind of
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: mentality of to show people how stupid they will we
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: are to make that, to make that a point. Yeah,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I mean she was a nun, so she had the
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: credibility of being a nun. But and he followed up,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: this is the thing about Okay, so he does something
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: like that, it's debunked, and then he follows it up
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: with like memes saying no cuts out as much friendly
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: as to Christians and israel Is.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, that's that's the thing.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting, as you said, like it's what we
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: were saying earlier that even in that level of the discussion,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: even the racist or the white naturalists have become less intellectual.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: And you mentioned Trump.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I think the other big thing that destroyed their mind
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: was COVID because there was this healthy skepticism that was warranteed.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And you and me were among the first were in
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: the barricade that went against the lockdowns, So there was
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: this healthy element of Okay, something is happening here which.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Needs to be resisted when it comes the state over it.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: But together they threw any semblance of reason and that yeah,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: there are facts. They became full postmodernists after COVID that
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: anything the powers to be are telling me is a lie.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Like the thing my teachers told me about World War
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: two is a lie. So they try to find who
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: is the biggest sacred cow that the powers to be believed.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: I'm going to believe the opposite.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: This is how you ended up in the world where
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: now you have millions of young people giving another chance
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: to Hitler because it's like everything they told me is
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: a lie. So obviously also what they told me about
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Hitler is a lie. So maybe you know there's a
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: there's a point to Hitler.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that's a good point. So authorities,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: intellectual authorities out because they somehow bamboozo us on COVID,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: and therefore we can't trust them and anything else. I
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: have seen some data. It's really interesting if you look
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: at the data, you know, if you look at who
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: wanted to open up America, who want to open up
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: after the lockdowns, it's actually the people the masses were
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: anti lockdown. Sorry, we're pro lockdown, and actually that spirts
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: wanted to open up, and it's the people who didn't
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: on average, right, so so in and it's and people
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: people completely misremember that that Tucker was one of the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: first people to go to Trump and tell him to
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: to lock If you think down, there was a Bannon.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Bannon panicked, Bannon told Trump to lockdown. They can't remember
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: any of this. And I get accused all the time
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: of being pro lockdowns because I was pro vaccines. So
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: if you're pro vaccines, you're automatically pro lockdown because they
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: can they can't they can't think in terms of you know.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they can't think in terms of nuance because they
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: can only think in terms of tribes. So Yarn was
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: on the vaccine tribe. Therefore obviously he was also in
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: the lockdown tribe. So this is almost that I don't
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I don't remember how a three year old thinks because
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: it's been sometimes you know it was three year old.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: But they're probably thinking a bit like that.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: This is this is like intellectual underdevelopment, like you you
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: retreat back to the thinking of like this is what
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: we say, like tribalist makes you literally stupid, Like tribalist
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: makes your own self worse enemy. I wonder how these
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: people manage to drive to work, and they don't. They
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: don't end up like falling on the sea or something
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: with the way they think.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Or don't think or don't think. So, I mean, I'm
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: really focused on on kind of the weight in the US.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Is there any are you seeing anything different in Europe?
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: The characteristics of the weight in the UK and in
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: in in Europe itself any different?
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: So in some way because in Europe. So okay, So
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: let's let's start from something. Thats for me, the biggest
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: failure of the of the right is of the new right.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Is there miss their failure and understanding that we are
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: experiencing a civilizational war when it comes to the conflict
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: between Israel and the Palestinians and rather Al Islam. So
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: for me, this is the major test they failed. So
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: you would expect that because at least they portrayed themselves
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: as these defenders of the West, they would understand that
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the war that took place for the last two years
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: was a war for the ages, perhaps the most important
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: war the West has fought since at least the Cold War,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And they missed that completely. Now because in Europe, the
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: threat of radical Islam is a bit more reminent, is
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: a bit more in your face. I was positively surprised
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: by many people in the European right, which otherwise I
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: would expect that they would fall in the same tribals,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: in the same type of contrary and thinking that.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, you know, whatever the elites tell me, it's the opposite.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: So in Europe the right is a bit more on
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: these specific issues. For example, on Israel, they're a bit
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: better and they haven't completely lost their mind in the
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: way they have lost their mind in the United States.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe because the problems again are more more imminent, so
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: you cannot afford to completely lose your lose your mind.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Right now, they're more focused on hating the Muslim immigrants
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: than they aren't hating Jews in Israel.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so you don't see you don't see this
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: anti Semitism. But also you they still view themselves as
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: we are here defending the West. They probably don't understand
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: what the West is, but at least they respect this
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: label that.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Is the West.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: You don't see what you see in the United States,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: which is a conscious of disassociation with this notion of
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the of of the West, like you wouldn't see Europeans
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: of right wing Europeans you know, going and saying thinks
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: good things about Katar, for example, that would be that
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: would be unheard, that would be unheard of. Of course,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: you have the issue of their relationship some of them,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: the dubious relationship with with Russia, or the relationship in
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: terms of not you know, disassociating and not condemning it
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: strong enough. There are also these discussions about many floating around,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: either from Russia or from other governments of similar ideological
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: persuasions in Europe. So they're definitely not not perfect, but
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: they're not as bad, they're not as deranged as the
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: new Right in the US.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: What about religion to what extent I mean, religion plays
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: a huge role on the way in the US, not
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: in any particular thing they say, but in the kind
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: of intellectual backup you know, it's always in the name
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: of Christianity. Everything they do. This is Christianity player role
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: for the for the for the new weights in Europe.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Well, well, national Conservatives in a way first was an
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: institutional thing in Europe before it became an institutional thing
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: in the US. So let's say the Kremlin to use
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: them called the war metaphor of National Conservatives was Hungary,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Hungary with Victor Orburn, So it plays a role.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: But also because in Europe.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: In some countries, you know, it's not clear which is stronger, Catholicies, Protestantism.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: It's it's not so strong yet as V rallying cry.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: So you don't see it.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: So you don't have integralists in Europe having as a
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: distinct voice as they do in the US, or at
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: least you don't.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, you.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Couldn't say that the AfD in Germany or the Reform
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: part in the UK, you couldn't say they're integralists. You
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: don't hear voices who say, for example, that you know,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: we need this soft theocracy, because in my mind, this
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: is what the integralists are in the US. They're basically
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: theocratsy in fancy suits.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: But then again, because these movements in Europe don't have
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: their own ideology, they don't have a very distinct They
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: know what they're against woke Islam and all the stuff,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: but they don't have an identity of what they are for.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if they're still looking for this identity,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and I wouldn't be surprised if Christianity is what actually
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: gives them this identity, because I can tell you for
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: sure adfortunate. It's not gonna be classical liberalism, it's not
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: gonna be objectivism. So yeah, at some point they will
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: have to end up to some meaning giving system, and
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: the obvious candidate is Christianity.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: So you know, the way everywhere, it seems to the
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: one thing they all agree on is they've really, as
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: you said, a man in classical liberalism, in certainly in
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: a sense of free markets. None of them believe in
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: free markets anymore. I assume that's true. I think with
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: reform and Lapen and a FD.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Leapen is actually even worse than her father. Her
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: father was worse than Lapen in everything, but at least
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: in economics he was. So Lapen is more state. It's
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: even than her her father. Her father was Don Marie Lepen,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: so he was. He was way worse in in.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: Everything that else.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Nigel Faraz recently voices in his party have talked about
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: nationalizing some key industries. Just to remind people that fifteen
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: years ago Faraz was presenting himself as this kind of libertarian.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I remember an anarcho Capitalist podcast interviewing Faraz and disagreeing, well,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: at what point do we you know, at what point
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: do we get rid of the stage. So this was
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: this was Faraz circa two thousand and eleven twenty twelve,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and today he's talking about nationalizing, nationalizing key industries. And
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the AfD AfD hasn't has different character in different German states.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: So Germany, you know, it's not so much like a
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Leninist type of party, So in different localities it has
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: different characters, but it's not the tranjector is not towards
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: more economic freedom. And this is because for them, freedom
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: is a problem to be mitigated, not only economic freedom,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: but also personal freedom.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: So they view you.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: As so basically say, freedom opens you up to mistakes.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: It could be you what's important, or employing immigrants, or
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: moving away from your parents because remember your respect to
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: your parents, or employing people who are not local, or
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: God forbid, taking your business and going somewhere else. So
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: whether it is the economic field or the personal field,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: they view freedom as making you basically a basket case
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: that you're going to take all the wrong decisions, which
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: is going to ruin your life because for them, a
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: non Christian, non virtues in the Christian way life is
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: a bad life and you're going to ruin also your community,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: because you're going to upset it, You're going to upset
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the norms. So for them, the key thing to be
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: preserved is the norms, tradition, business as usual. We cannot
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: go too fast forward. You cannot go too fast ahead
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: because then what happens to the organic community? So you
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: cannot be Let's say, how our drag to use an
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: example that we will understand in the worldview of the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: new right. In the world view of the new right,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: we all have to rise together, and we all have
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: to rise together while maintaining society and tradition as it
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: used to be. So this is why freedom is an
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: existential problem for them. It's a problem that has to
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: be managed, that has to be mitigated, your freedom to
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: do whatever you want with your life, but also obviously
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: economic freedom.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: And how far do you think these political parties are
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: willing to go on this? I mean they will get
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: they will need to eliminate political freedom. Is that in
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: their agenda? Are they thinking about it now?
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: Not in the way that for example, the fastest the fastest.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: We're very clear that we are a revolutionary, radical movement.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: We want to do away with parallel mentors and all
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: that stuff. There's not a single such movement in at
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: least in Europe who wants to do these who wants
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: to do these things. But again, you know the fact
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: that at least rhetorically they want to maintain the rule
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: of law is.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Quite is a good thing. So that's why I don't
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: like the you know.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: The they relate them to fascist. It's not fascist, and
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: it's not it's we don't have it's not a good
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: it's not a very good parallel. It's a very good
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: parallel in terms of we face similar let's say, problems,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: and that they are following the rule book of we
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: have a crisis and we're afraid of the left, and
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: the left is so bad that anything goes. So when
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: it comes to this part, there are similarities with the
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: ninety thirties, but there's definitely no similarities in them wanting
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: to revolutional, to follow a revolutionary road of remaking society,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: because that was fast, That's what fastest was fast. It
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: was a revolutionary movement. And of course I'm not using
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: the term revolutionary in a positive way.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: So when Mussolini takes over, it is it clear that
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: his agenda is that there's alve parliaments and to do
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: away with with you know, those institutions.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Well he doesn't. He doesn't in the last months before
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: he takes power. This is not what he says. But
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Mussolini is a revolutionary when he begins, he begins as
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: a social list. He joins forces with revolutionary synthically. So basically,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: people who say we need a new society, we knew
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: the society where the state controls everything. Where why do
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: we have all these political parties, Why do we have
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: all these disagreements. The nation needs to be this one
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: organic unity. So to anyone paying attention, they should understand that, yeah,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Mussolini is someone who is a revolutionary, even more with Hitler,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: because Hitler spelled it all, spelled it all out in.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: In mind camp.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: So yes, you should expect that these people would come
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: to power as radical revolutionary movements. They had their own
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: militias at some point, the Nazis had the militias like
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: street fighters of hundreds of thousands of people. There's not
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: a single movement in the world today that has such
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: even an ambition of such actions. So we're dealing with
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: something which is at least in euro which is not good.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: But it's not at least at this point, we're not
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: going to see dark sir militias and taking taking power
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: through force or whatever, or taking power and then dissolving
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: parliaments and stuff.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Do you think part of it is that, you know,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: if they learned from Auburn and from Putin that you
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: can do it in other ways. That is, in a
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: sense putting stuff has elections. You know, he still pretends
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: it's a it's a you know, a free country in
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: some sense. Aba certainly does. And maybe the elections in
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Hungary are legit, you know, it's hard to tell. It
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: seems like our position might actually win against Oban in
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: the future, but it's basically dismand on media. He disbanded
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: independent court system. He's disman of a lot of this.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: He's an authoritarian in kind of a system that still
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: allows elections.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the main thing is none of these figures in
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Europe that I come to my mind, I don't think
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: they have the commitment that it takes to be a
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: dictator for what it's worth. I think the same is
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: with Trump, Like to be a fascist require the commitment
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: that these people are definitely Trump So Trump has the
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: authoritarian instinct, right, but he hasn't got the instinct to
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: commit to coming up with a program a vision like this,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: this notion of I have this higher image about life,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: about he's He hasn't got any of these things. And
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I don't think, like does anyone seriously think like Fara's
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: they dreams of some national repair of in any particular way.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: So I don't interestingly, I think it's more of a
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: threat in the United States because in the United States
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: you have more ideologues who are who are consciously against
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: liberal democracy. I don't think Nigel Farraz has any interest
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: in getting rid of liberal democracy. I do know though,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: that the National Conservatives and the integralist they have a
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: problem with liberal with the classical liberals to put it,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: to put.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: It this way, not to mention Bannon and and all
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: these people.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I mean Bannon, I think is the is
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: a I think in his heart he's an integralist and
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: he but he's the marketing guy of the of the
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: movement or the I don't know what he is, the thug.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Uh So let's talk a bit about the integralists and
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: whatever gender is. I think there's a bit of a
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: difference between the integralists and the National Conservatives, and then
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: there's the Christian Conservatives who are more explicitly National Conservatives,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: who are explicitly Christian, whereas the National Conservatives try to
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: because it was founded by an Israeli Due the national
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Conservative movements, they stay away from religion a little bit,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: whereas the Christian Conservatives there's no hope, they don't hold back.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: So let's put it simply then for people not to
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: get confused. So let's say we have three Venn diagrams. Right,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: these Van diagrams in there are attached with each other,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: but are separate. The one is the postive Liberals. There
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: we could have the figure of Patrick the nin as
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: the key figure. They explicitly claim that liberalism, as in
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: classical liberalism, has failed, and they think also that capitalism
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: is a problem. So if you read the name, he
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: literally quotes Marks. He talks the language of ali nation,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: the language of exploitation. Now they're different from national conservatives.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Conservatives belief that yes, liberalism has failed, but the vehicle,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: the vehicle to get beyond liberalism is going to smaller communities,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: from the family to the tribe to the nation. Whereas
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: the post liberals, you know, they think it's more of
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: a I don't know, maybe a universalist project. So they
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: don't think like what is special about the nation or
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: what is special about the family and the tribe, So
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: they disagree on that level. On the level of do
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: we want to use another example, socialism is in one country,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: or socialism let's say international socialists. Of course, if you
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: know anything about the Commonist movement, this was completely a
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: secondary and historically overplayed the difference. So at the end
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: of the day, there's not a huge difference between national
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: conservatives and post liberalists. The integralist, as you say, they
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: want to integrate really religion with politics, so they want
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: this type of dual power. Again, to use an example
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: from the left, the church has power in some areas
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: the state, though there is still a state, so we're
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: not governed by mulas, so they're not at that point
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: yet we have dual power. Of course, dual power means
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: that one of the two has to be stronger at
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: the end of the day. And obviously my fear is
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: that at the end of the day all decisions will
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: be made on Christian morality, so they want to impose
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Christian morality on politics. So technically someone could be a
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: post liberal and dnatheist. For example, they say, I want
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: I want a more integrated quote unquote integrated organic community
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: without competition, without the destabilizing effect of the market. But
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I don't want religion, whereas someone could be a post
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: liberal and to believe in that Christian needs to have
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: a more of a roll. So these are smaller differences,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, all of them
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: agree your freedom is a problem that we have to
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: control and that we have to mitigate. Now what do
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the different central planners will do in terms of like
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: should the shops be open on Sunday? Maybe there shouldn't
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: be divorced, maybe there shouldn't be pornography. So they would
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: disagree on the specifics, but the essences your freedom is
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: a problem, and it's time to name freedom and liberalism
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: and capitalism as a problem.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, one of the advantages I think they do
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: exist in the US is that the Christians can agree
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: amongst each other. Not only is the graphics and Protestants,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: but a million different types of Protestants, and none of
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: them can actually agree, and they will if it ever
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: gets to that, they will be It's just like pud
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Muslims you know, one of the things that prevents Islam
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: for being more powerful mirtarily is that they hate each other.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: As soon as it and isis and versus Arkaida, versus
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: you know whatever, they will kill each other easily. And
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: and I think I think among Christians, particularly in the US,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: the the divisions are significant and large.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: But and there's also historical baggage there.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: For example, it's interesting to see how the earlier JKK,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: for example, you know, how they deal with these of Catholics,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Catholics and or Protestants. One of them only is part
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: of the real Americans. The other are not the real Americans.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's it's not the perfect ground to
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: to to unite, that's for sure.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: It is interesting that the attack, as you said, once
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: you they've started this attack on freedom, and once you
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: stought that, it goes everywhere. See you've got very very
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: well known preachers now in the US saying things like, well,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: the women shouldn't have the vote.
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: And the thing is, if you take your religious series
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: in the books and the scripture seriously, you're gonna start
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: seeing all these issues that you'd expect that they're resolved intellectually.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they come they come, they come back. I mean,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: did a Nick Fuentes also say the same thing in
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: they were having that discussion actually with Tacket or was
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: it within in one of these interviews that he would.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he does not like women, that is clear. And
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: uh and yeah, so the women should have the vote.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Gay gay marriage of course is out. You know, anti
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: gay laws would be reintroduced and and things like that.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Sure you said something earlier about how it worked, which
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: is which reminded me of the fact that one of
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: the things that is these national conservatives in America at least,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: and I don't know about you, but in America have
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: made a big deal of his architecture. I don't know
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: if you've you've seen this, but you know, all buildings,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: all government buildings now have to be done in the
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: traditions of Greece and Rome.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now, okay, so this this gives us a good
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: leeway to discuss also why these movements find a lot
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: of appeal. And I will be very honest to you.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I follow so many accounts on Twitter that post these
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: you know, beautiful rural England houses and all that stuff,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: and I check them out and then I go Torbnb
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: and like, oh, I want to to to book a
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: house there. This is so beautiful, So ideally there is
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: some power and political power even in this notion of
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: beauty that that, you know, they say, we aspire at
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: least to something which is outside of the mundane. And
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I know you have your views on aesthetics and they
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: are very well thought, and I won't even get in
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: a discussion on that. But at least they are aspired
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: to tell people there is a vision where your life
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: there should be there could be beauty in your life,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: and there is a void there in the rest of
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: the political spectrum. So I totally understand how they can
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: attract people through their at least pretense of caring about
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: beauty and about some higher meaning in life. Of course,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: they eventually they find this meaning only in sacrifice, that
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: you have to live for something bigger than yourself. But
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: still there is some meaning there and the realm of
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: meaning has been completely abandoned by let's say the good guys,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: or at best they give a similar message of you know,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: effective alter Yeah, you know, maybe we should our goal
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: in lives would be to be better altruists. So this
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: is the yeah, this is why they found such a
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: fertile ground because they they talk about, you know, you
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: should have this fire inside you about something. Now the
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: country exactly what this something is. But at least they
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: understand that people have a learning for the.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Well and are just super important, right so, and and
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: you know, there's certainly the bad guys have always understood this.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: The Catholic Church understood it. It's why they hired Michelangelo
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: and Raphael and all these guys to decorate their churches
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: and Bach to write the music and and all of that.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: They they they knew that, you know, art is power,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: and the Communists and the Nazis understood this. And while
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: they art was not very good, you know, they understood
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: the symbolism that it represented the inspiration that could provide.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: And they certainly, you know, and you know, hated, you know,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: the Nazis in particularly hated the kind of decadence of
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: what they call the decadent modern arts. And in most
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: cases I agree with them in terms of how bad
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: the stuff that was going on in the frem of
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Republic was. But yes, you know, they understood the problem.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: I think at least the the the Church in the
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Renaissance had taste. I don't I don't think I don't
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: think these people have taste. I think they they you know,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: what resonates with them is the fact that it's old.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: What resonates with them is the fact that it's that
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: it's traditional. And you know, beauty is not is not
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: at the top of mind. There is a question of
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: you know, what should government buildings look like. You know,
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: you certainly don't want them to be brutalist and and
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: kind of ugly nineteen sixties modern. But if anybody wants
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: to see beautiful kind of big you know, big buildings
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: or even government buildings, Fank Lloyd Wright has some good examples.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: So and speaking about beauty, let's remember for a second
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: what the privilege it is for us objectivists. I mean,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: we're not a political movement, but we have this perfect
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: example of beauty aspiration to something great and which is
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: which is the art of iron Rand and what the
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: same that classical liberals and all these people completely completely
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: snob that and completely miss how people have this need
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: for for the heroic, for the for the beautiful, for
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: the for the higher, not higher in terms of you know,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: other life, or for something bigger than yourself, but make
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: your life something important make your life something heroic, make
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: your life something which is there's a fire in it,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: not just this you know ZDP and just you know.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: But that's just the problem with the you know, so
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: many of the classical labels are inspired by people like Hume.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: So the skeptics, and if you're skeptic, it's very hard
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: to get excited about heroism and beauty and yeah said,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: it's beautiful for you, is not beautiful for me? It's
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: you know, or what does it mean to be here?
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: But they were all skeptics. I mean, hyak of course is.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: And then if you look at if you look at it.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: I remember sitting next to one of the founders of
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Adam Smith Institute. He is in a montpel And dinner
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: and we're having this thing and he said, you know,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: I'm I have ninety five percent confidence that I'm holding
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: a folk right now. It couldn't even agree. They say,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: there's certainty about the fact that this is a folk.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's that now that you said this, I
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: just thought of something, right. So at the end of
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: the day, these people they don't these people don't mean
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: that Ada's meat. I mean the new right. At the
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: end of the day, they are. They don't stand for
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: something positive. They stand for negatives, like they stand at
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the end of Like I'm not convinced that Nick.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Fuenten's wants to see the resurrection of the West or something.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: So notice how this, at the end of the day
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: will lead to a nihilism, even when it comes to
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: a nihilism in the form of art and beauty and
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: beauty for example. So notice you did you you something
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: else that you spotted early on you were talking about
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Bronze aids pervert and bronze age's mindset when no one
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: else was understanding what's happening there. And this was again
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: there was something there which was, you know, aspire to
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: some idea, even if it was you know, whether we're
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: good or a bad idea, it is a different discussion.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: But today even this is out of the question, right
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: So you so, particularly the growerper movement, they don't even
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: aspire to this, let's say, the aesthetics of the body
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: or the aesthetics of you know, conquering something. It's more
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: it's just this negative, this kind of nihilistic you know, trolling, attacking, destroying,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: not building, but just just destroying. So it's it's it's
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: a race to the bottom at the end of the day.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Really is I mean, bunch is provid at least demanded
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: that you go exercise, right, say that you do something
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: and that you have a standard a beauty. Whether it's
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: a good stand, it's a bad stand. But whatever Nick
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: finders doesn't require you to do anything. It's like you're
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: sitting in your mother's basement and play video games all
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: day and you can be a goypa and you're complete legit.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: You can never have sex, which you know, he's proud
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: of the fact that he's never had sex. And that's cool,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: that's a good thing, that's a positive right.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Well, now he has rationalized it, of course that No,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: it's not. It's it's because the Catholic Church, the Catholic
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Church sens So this is his latest rediscovery.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's giving the in cells and the men
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: going their own way or whatever you want to call it.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: That he's given him legitimacy in a sense of yeah,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: women are hobable, you shouldn't have anything to do with them.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: And yeah, the Catholic Church also doesn't allow me. But
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: but it's it's there's no positive, positive action. These kids
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: need to do except go harass speakers and talks.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and even question with the women. Right, so,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: at least the meek dows, you know, and the whole
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: red pill. The idea was, I'll give you a way
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: to understand women and then use them. You could say, okay,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: sex is whatever, but it's there's at least the aspiration
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: of you, you're going to achieve something. Now it's not
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: even that, like, don't even bother. Actually this is this
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: maybe is the mot of the groppers. Don't even bother,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: don't even bother in anything?
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, So any sense of can I have this
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: plays out politically? I mean in the US whef JD events,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: it really does look like the Way is going to
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: make real progress in Europe, whereas I'm not sure in
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: the US. I think Trump is in a sense blown
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: it for them. You know, if not a health Trump
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: would probably be quite popular today, the economy would be booming,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: and he'd be doing quite well. But I think it's
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: just this attitude. Everything about him is unappealing and it's
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: going to be difficult for the Way to capitalize, whereas
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: in Europe there really no options, it looks like right now.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I don't know how it worked with the
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: markets and how you can bet money, but my political
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: betting would be at some point in Europe, in all
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: the major countries, some form of a new right how
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: to call it, will be victorious. And the reason is,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: of course the issue of not a station of radical Islam, because,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: as you said in an episode not so long ago,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: this is a problem that can be solved if there
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: is a political and moral will, but the fact that
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: everyone else is so unwilling to even deal with it. So,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: for example, if you see what happens these days in
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: the United Kingdom and how the government and is treating
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: radical Islam with and the preachers of hate of radical Islam,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: it is a number. It is just an issue of time.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: When so what are they doing? Tell us a little
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: bit about what the British coman is doing with the
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: preachers of vertical Islam, because I don't think.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: So that they brought back this guy. They brought this
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Egypsian activist as he was portrayed, and it's like, oh yeah,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: this guy. It's such a victory that he was repatriated,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: someone who was making comments that would land any British
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: person if he made these comments about Islam in prison.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: So the things that you hear about the UK that
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: people go to prison for tweets. I mean for months,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't pay much attention because I thought, Okay, that
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: can't be.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: But turns out it is. Turns out it is.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: And noticed that this happens with legislation that the Tories,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: which is, let's say they're respectable, right, they were in
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: power from two thousand and ten, so let's say they
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: were in power for more than a decade, and they
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: did nothing to repeal this legislation. They did nothing to
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: culturally fight against a for free speech but also against
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: radical Islam. And of course when then more reasonable people
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: so to speak, don't deal with a problem, then you
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: leave the field open for the a f D in
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: Germany or for the Leapen in for the Leapen in France.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I predict that at some point this new
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: right in Europe will have it, will have its day.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: They're not gonna do much because they don't have any
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: real plan on what to do.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, will they do anything with this nam?
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have you read a book by Michelle
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: well Beck, The Weird friends called Submission.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: I did a show on it. I did all show
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: a long term excellent.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: So anyone who reads Submission carefully, they will understand that
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: the big revelation in the book is not that Islam
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: is gonna win. The big revelation is Islam is gonna win.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: And most of the conservatives in Europe are gonna be
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: okay with it because they will view this as a
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: power of order, as the power of conserving whatever.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: It is, the kind of for the kind of reasons.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: The Tucker Cousen mentions that he likes Islam. He says,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: you know, the entire abortion they don't like gays. We
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: share more with the Kataoists than we do with israelis
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: you know, in abortions and abortions.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: And the moment of truth for me that when I said, okay, well,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: bag got it right was when when when when Tate,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: when Andrew Tate converted to Islam, I was like, Wow,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: this is it. This is someone who tells you I
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: find my truth of the things that I stand for
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: in Islam. I can't have many women and they will
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: know their place and no walk and all that stuff.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: So it's it's well. Let Beck was onto something.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Ye scary, yea, yeah, I interrupted you. You you know,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: would they do anything so based on well Beck, maybe not.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: But I mean, what are they gonna do.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: They can't do anything economically because they don't believe in
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: anything economically. They can't. So so it's gonna be interesting
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: what happens after them. Where do we go after that? That?
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: I don't I have zero idea. I don't know, I
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: don't know what I mean. There can always be positive surprises.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, who who saw me lay coming five years ago?
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: But this is this is more like a black sworn event,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: not something that was the result of systematic work in preparing,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: preparing the ground.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: No. I think it's a combination of things going really
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: bad and his unique personality, and that's it's it's a
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: it's a it's a fluke. Even the even though all
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: the other elections in South America going to the rights,
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: they're not going to anybody like they're going.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: To and by process of elimination, by the way, I
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: think he is the best state leader in peace time
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: that I've seen in the Western world, at least in
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: my time. And I would put him above that and
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: above and above a Reagan. So no one expects that
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: we would experience these five years ago, and yet you
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: know it happened. But yeah, another another trend very quickly
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: that I think is very promising, promising in terms of
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: being able to win it's going to be horrible is
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: the populist left. So imagine someone who will see where
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: the wind goes. They will understand that walk is dead.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: They will understand that. Yeah, you know, don't talk too
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: much about immigration, don't talk too much about the environment.
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: But let's attack the one percent.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: Let's attack Israel, let's have let's see what worked in Maga.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Let's put to it a left wing kind of uniform.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: So the New York Times will be with us, Trump
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: voter will be with us, The students who hateit will
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: be with us. This is a recipe. This is a
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: recipe for a success for them and the distraction for
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: the country and for us.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's right. And at that point there's no
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: difference between left and right, and they can unite around
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: a banner of hatred and uh and seize control. Yes,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: I think I think that's that's where we're heading. You
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: still need a positive element to really to sustain authoritarianism.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Real authoritarianism. You need a positive element, and as Lended
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: is said in in the US, it seems like religion
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: is the positive element. Yeah, I'm not sure what it
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: is in Europe. It used to I used to think
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: it might be environmentalism, but that seems to be has
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: lost a lot of its appeal because of climate change
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: and energy. So the question is what can they unite
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Europe around, Europeans around and I'm not sure. So that's
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: positive nationalism maybe, but then but the EU project is
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: too big, so I don't think it really. I mean,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: even these light being parties are not talking about doing
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: a Brexit.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, actually yeah, they're not talking about it during a
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: doing a Brexit. And of course there is a history
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: in Europe where the far right is in favor of
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: a European integration at least, I mean at least in
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: its like Oswald mostly when he saw that Fastest felt
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: he was talking about the United Europe most neo fascist
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: and the new right. They all do new right in
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: the neo fast let's say Europe increased. They were talking
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: about European integration because the idea was we are a
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: common civilization, a common culture, and all that stuffy common blood,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: the common ethnic roots, race and all that stuff.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Other than Milay anything positive in the world that then.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Other than Milaye Ito wasive in the world. Where not
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: in politics? Maybe I know you have many viewers who
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: like sports, so we can you posit the stuff there,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: but not in politics.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Celtics are playing pretty well, so I'll take it without
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: the number one players. Not bad.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's not. This is a season.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's it's it shouldn't be even in the books.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: All right, let's see, we've got a bunch of questions.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Let's go to the questions and yeah, guys keep fifty
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: to keep asking.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's nerd it out. Any question. You have far right,
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: far left, fastest communist tallin only. We're here for this,
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: so let.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: Me ask you this are you seeing I mean, we
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: know in France there's a populist left, it's quite substantial.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Are you seeing a populist left? There's nothing in England,
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: I mean the labor parties. You know it's going to
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: be blown. There's not. And you see a populist left
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: in Germany elsewhere around Europe, well.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Not particularly because they don't have this. The The role
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: of personality is important, right, So if they don't get
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: they don't have that.
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: They've lost the populist instinct the left.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: So because they were so complacent and comfortable in this,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: you know, controlling the institutions, talking down to people. You know,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: how there you're not recycling? How they are you being left?
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: How are you being racist? They've lost this kind of
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: emotional appeal to the masses. So it will take them
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: some time to regain this, or they will find the
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: charismatic person who will do it. But it's it's nowhere
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: there in the in the horizon. I mean in the UK,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: it's mostly now these days the Green Party, which is
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: so in bed with everything bad in Islamist that I
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: don't think it has any major appeal potential.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my guess is you're going to have to see
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: the right place things out before the left has a rebound.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: So here's a piece of good news before we go
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: to the questions. I don't know if you've been seeing this,
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: but it's just happening over the last two days. You're
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: seeing mass demonstrations in you won.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've been seeing this, but I've seen this
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: so many times in the past, so you know, every
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: the thing I post on Twitter every time when I
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: see something like this. The day the zim of the
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Mulas collapses will be humanities most important day since eight
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: of May.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: Ninety forty five.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: It will be the It will be a day for
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: the ages, a day to celebrate. We should remember it
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: as the day the Berlin Wall fell, and even more
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: important because towards the end, no one was seriously believing
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: in communism, whereas radical Islam is a vibrant and dangerous movement.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: So the day the Mula's fall, it's going to be
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: more important than the day of the Berlin Wall fall.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: It's huge. This could be different, I'm I'm just gonna
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: say it could be different, partially because the shutting down
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: the markets, So this is more like two thousand and nine.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: I think there were some demonstrations around if you combine
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: the shutting down the markets with the ghost revolution or
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: the general people have just pissed off at the regime.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: And so this is driven by partially by economics, which
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: is good because the Ranian stake that seriously. Partially if
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: I want a willingness to be free, and at least
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: it looks like you know this the Shaw, the son
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: of the Shaw is actively engaged in so it seems
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: to be an opposition where it seems to be somewhat organized.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: When in the past the people went out the streets
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: was there was no leadership. Now this seems maybe this leadership.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's been organizing that leadership since the war, the
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Twelve Day War, because if this happens, I Joe needs
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: to get credit for it happening, and it could be
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: that he has been organizing something internally since then.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know with the SAB because he has a
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: very good pr mechanism in social media, and I'm not
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: saying this negatively, but it's difficult to know how and
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: most of these people are outside of Iran. So most
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: of the people who post about the SAH or the flag,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: you know, with the Lion, they're outside Iran. So I
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: don't think we don't know how much he has inside it.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: Ran.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: By the way, let me say that one of my
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: strongest memory of twenty twenty five is following you early
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: in the morning of the day of the beginning of
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: the Twelve Day War, So yeah, your own monitoring the
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: situation was one of my strongest twenty twenty five. Like
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: public affairs, memories.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that I can't remember it, but that's okay.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: It all it all is a blow, it seems, I mean,
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: I again, I don't want to be too optimistic, because yes,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: we've been disappointed many many times. But it does seem
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: like some of the chants that people are recording and
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: putting up videos mentioned the shaw it and and again
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: the the the whole thing started with the closing of
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: the markets. And that's huge because the the seventy nine
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: revolution really became a revolution when when the when the
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: markets were closed, when when the kind of what they
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: call the middle class is pretty poor middle class, but
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: when when the middle class got engaged, when the when
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: the merchants got engaged, that's when it really accelerated.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: So and also when the police of the then resume
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: decided it's not worth going for the blood seed, which
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: is exactly what happened also in this Germany.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: And it does look like nobody's being shot yet, or
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: at least we're not getting reports of people being shot
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: in any significant way. So anyway, maybe maybe that's not
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: true that sounds of people running.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: So.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: We're looking for positives and maybe something's happening in Iran.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: We'll keep an eye on it and see what happens.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Would be a great way to start twenty twenty six
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: if it happened. All right, let's see who do we
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: have here? Right? Questions coming in. Let's start with James
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: fifty dollars, Thank you, James. Interesting how social policies manifest
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: themselves in cities like San Francisco, which allow tons of
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: innovation and high salaries whilst simultaneously flooding its streets with homeless.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Are we in an age of symbolic socialism rather than
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: actual socialism?
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's a very interesting question because it has to
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: do with who. Like if you ask a left if
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: are these people better off being left at the street
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: or would they be better off Let's say I'm making
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: this up. Okay, you gather them and you put them.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: Let's say in the park, they have foods, they have
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: rehabilitation programs. Nine out of ten left you say, no, no, no,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: that would be like the equivalent of the Nazis concentration
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: comes and all that stuff. And then you start wordering
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: do they actually want to see the cities dirty? And
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: is this like envy? Like if I cannot live in
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: a great neighborhood neither can you. But then you realize
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: that their own neighborhoods turn out like that. So I
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: don't know. I've been I've been struggling. I've been grappling
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: with these thoughts. Why are the left is okay with this?
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: But I haven't got I haven't got a nunder So
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: what about you?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think it's it's the modern left.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: It's not a socialist like the old left. It's not
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: a left that believes that the station only means of production.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: It's just solve every individual's problems from the top. It's
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: much more nihilistic left that basically sees, you know, it's
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: quite happy to leave people to shoot up drugs and
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: to be homeless and to defecate in the streets. You know,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: who are we to tell them what to do? Kind
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: of pseudo freedom. It's a pretense of freedom. And it's
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: why they they're not going to nationalize Silicon Valley, right,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: because that's part of the question is why don't they
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Why don't they going after because they realize, again they're
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: not ideologically socialists, they're not ideological Marxists. They realize there's
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: a goose that's laying a golden egg here. Why not
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: exploit this. Plus it's kind of cool. They kind of
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: all think it's cool, right, And many of the worst
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: leftists in San Francisco are in Silicon Valley and work
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: at Silicon Valley and work for these companies. They realize
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: that there's value there. So it's this again. It's it's
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: a little like the right. There's no ideology there, it's
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: not like the ideologues. And then they see it's really
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: ruining the neighbors, they vote the bastards out, they vote
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: other people in. We're not really going to clean it
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: up completely, but it can give you the pretense of
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: things a little bit better. And then and then it'll
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: swing back after a while. So there's no there's no
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: ideas here. It's just it's just emotional responses. But there
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: is this perception. I think you're right of we're not
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: going to organize things. We're gonna not gonna round people up,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: we're not going to nationalize businesses. We're gonna regulate what
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: will tax them. We want a billionaires tax. That's a
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: big thing in California now, is a billionaires tax. We
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: want a billionaire tax. Well, we don't want them to
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: leave and and we don't, and we don't want to
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: nationalize them. We want to milk them for everything that
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: they've got.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Yep, it's and most of them would agree with being milked.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: And it is interesting how many of them are becoming rightists. So,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think the most interesting character here is
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: the CEO of sales Force, whose name escapes me right now.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: Salesforce is a is a huge company in Silicon Valley.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: It has this magnificent tower in downtown San Francisco is
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: a cell Force building. And the CEO of cell Force
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: was an avid leftist, right a real committed leftist environmentalism
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: and helped the homeless and everything, all all this stuff,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Mark Binioff. Mark Binioff is his name. And over the
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: last year he's suddenly become pals with Donald Trump. He's uh,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: he's on the bandwagon of of kind of the new right,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: uh and uh and all this stuff because it all
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: appeals to kind of even though he is a producer, right,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: he built this company. He's the founder. He's not just
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: the CEO, he's the founder of the company. The the
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: whatever element of kind of nihilistic I don't know what
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: it is, that they have. Some days the left appeals
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: to it. Some day it's the right appeals to it.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: You know, they'll go where it takes them.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: Or it's even this needs un think even either I'm
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: going to be a sacer or I'm going to rule.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: This is like I'm gonna be the central planner rather
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: than I'm going to be the subject of central planning.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you combine that with people who think they're
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: smarter than everybody else already, and they probably are right.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: They are smarter than everybody else. And they built big companies.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: They've done central planning, right, They've done central planning on
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: a large scale. And why can't I take my success
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: at Salesforce and my success at Google, my success anyway
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: and just apply it to the state. What's the difference?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: They can't see the difference, you know, it's it's economic
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: power and political power, the differentiation between those. It's like
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: only objectives see that. It's amazing how few people. It's
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: why monopolies, you know, Oh no, this company has forced
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: it's forcing people to buy their product. What do you mean?
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: So it's.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: They think there philosopher kings and they think they can
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: go out and rule h James. Thank you, uh Wes,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: also fifty year olds, thank you Wes. Whenom question Nichous,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: do you read fiction any favorite snors or authors?
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I go through phases, so at some point
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: I read everything from well back. I read a lot
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: of Fagatha Christie. We have this game with my girlfriend.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: We try to figure out who the murderer is as
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: early as possible. In the last novel, I think I
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: found the murderer at six percent. He has finished it.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: I haven't, so I don't know if I'm if I'm
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: if I'm.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Right, but mostly because when I get when I prepare
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: a new project, I want to get completely immersed in it.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: So currently I'm working on a new course for the
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: ARII Life courses on the history of the far right,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: so I try to read historic fiction on Nazism on
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: a fascist Italy. I'm reading a book called The Song
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: of the Century with about Mussolini, which is also a
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: TV series I haven't was a TV series.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: So these days, for.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: The last actually many months, I mostly read historic fiction
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: that has to do with anything that has to do
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: with fascism and the Nazism. And now currently I'm reading
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: a book which on an alternative history, where Oswald mostly
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: when the UK is in pis terms with Hitler and
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Osvard mostly is becoming the most popular person in the country.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: And by the way, talk about people being economically literate,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: the author things that when fascist takes over, they're going
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: to be all about free trade and more power to corporation.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: So even in alternative reality, we cannot get rid of
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: the economic ignorance of the left.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: Is any of the books historical fiction that you're eating,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: would you recommend?
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: I would recommend. I would recommend The Song of the Century,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: the Song of the Censury. It's not historical fiction, it's
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: something between fiction and actual history, and I would definitely
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: recommend it. It's too much detailed, though, so it goes
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: month by month and how fast it came to power.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: But you will get one main lesson from that, which
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: applies to leftist today. Be careful when you think violence
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: is cool, because you're always going there's always gonna be
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: somewhere out there more violent than you. So this is
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: what the leftist did in Italy. They were oh, yeah,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: we're gonna occupy factories, We're gonna thug people around, not
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: realizing that the other side has veterans of the special
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: forces of the Italian Army in the First World War.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: So maybe it's not a good idea to, you know,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: fight it out with them on a massive level.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: So say something about your course for AOI life and
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: how people can find out more information about it.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: So the course name is Reactionary Authority Tyrannists from Musolini
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: to the New Right. So we cover everything from Fascist
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: in Italy, Nazism in Germany, World War Two, the intellectuals
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: and fascism, neo fascism, and then we have also some
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: works about the United States, the history of the authorittiant
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: right in the United States, and obviously today the MAGA
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: write and the New Right. People can go to ARI
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: Live courses and you will find it their reaction or
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: authority Titanist from Usolini to the New Right. You can't
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: miss it because the thumbnail is Mussolinium Hitler, so I'm
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: sure you're going to be able to recognize it.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: So if you you want to give your discount code, yes,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: if you.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: Got a dot org slash thought here, there'll be a
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: link there for all the courses and you can you
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: can find them. And then if you want a discount.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: As a U one Box show listener, you can get
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: a ten percent discount. It's twenty six YBS ten twenty
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: six YBS ten in Van Rogue Slash start here. So
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: I'm reading this book. I wonder if you've read it.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: You probably have. I'm reading it because somebody is paying
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: me to do a review of it. It's right the
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Tiger by Ivola.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: I've got it over there.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: So my view of Evola is this guy is clearly
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: a hippie. Like the fact that this guy's in the Father,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: This guy could very easily.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: Be in woodstock smoking weed.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: It's it's I don't know how life got him to
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: be like the most He's been characterized the most right
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: wing thinker in history. But the guys, the guy's actually
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: a hippie. It's like premise of consciousness instead of it's yep.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: So if you read that book, of course, yes, y yes, yes,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: I mean he's an Eastern mystic, just like a hippies
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: were right, it's all about George Harrison smoking dope, you know, smoking,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: taking drugs and and uh and trains trains something uh,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: you know, experiences. He and Sam Harris would get along.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 5: Uh now, but here's something else about here's something interesting
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 5: about Evola.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: He considers after the world the biggest danger not communism
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: but America. Why because he understand that America stands for
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: the United States, stand for you know, you living your
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: life for yourself using your mind, and this, for ever, like,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: this is the thing he cannot stand. He's okay, he
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: would rather you lived in goolags rather than you becoming
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: a handk redd and living your life for yourself and
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: your own happiness and building nice things. For this app
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: So anyone who likes this people like, just keep this
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: in mind. If you consider yourself still a capitalist, keep
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: in mind that these people would rather have communism than
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: anything related to capitalism.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: And another thing I noticed a bit about half the book,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: and you're talking about the nature man and critique of
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: Nietzsche and all this stuff. One word never appears in
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: the book. There's no mention of it. And that's reason.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: It's just human reason doesn't exist. Irrationality. Reason is just
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: that's he doesn't recognize the phenomena.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: And if people are generous with their money and your
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: generous with your time, you should also read his most
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: famous book, Revolved Against the Modern World, where he actually
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: specifically claims that you know reality is you know reality
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: in the mind. These are bad things, very very bad things.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: These are this is where all the problems began.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Yep, no, I'm not going to read any more of it.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: And the other thing is not even he's not like
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: nitz is a brilliant writer. Everyone lies he has. I
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: don't understand how he has had an appeal following.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: I'm much more interested in history than in delving into
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: these nasty ideas, so I'd rather go back to reading
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: my history books.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: At least he I mean, at least he wasn't. I
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: was about to say at least he wasn't as bad
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: as the Nazis, but probably his problem was the Nazis
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: were not ideally enough. So anyway, yep, all.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean I am Akut says, your people off
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: Jesus and you and yours, Oh, your people me off
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: Jesus and yours off Socrates. Why should I listen to
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: either one of you? Thank you, Amy Cat, we needed that.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: He also says. He says, it was great listening to
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: you in Tel Avivni because I can see the I
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: can see the back of my head in the according
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: ps Guza must go, must be destroyed. He he always
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: has a ps and all this.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that's the way to win hearts
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: and minds. But anyway, thanks for the note, and thanks
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: for thanks for being in Tel Aviv. As I was
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: telling to your own, I think before we went live
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: that event in Israel and the trip to Israel, we
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: went to the ground zero of October seven was the
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: most meaningful professional experience of my life. So say, why, well,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: why it's so. You know how all these intellectuals in
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: the thirties, you know, they would go to the Spanish
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: Civil War, and for them this was the most important
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: civilization battle of the time. It was like fascism against democracy.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: Now it they didn't have a proper conceptualization of it,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: but I could understand that they felt that they were
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: part of something historical. And this is how I felt
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: traveling to Israel in the aftermath of that war, that
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: I experienced the ground zero of a civilizational war, of
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: an existential war. You have the West, you have like
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: the forward outposts of the West versus the combined forces
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: of radical Islam. So I felt that was part of
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: an important moment in the history of the West and I.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: Understand you got a tour of the of the grounds
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: with the slaughter happened on October seventh.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: We went to the ground zero of Nova Festival to
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: where we have the collected the car records. It was
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: it was an experience. It was an experience, as you
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: can imagine, and one very interesting moment. And so you know,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: it's very often in objectivist we talk about the important
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: of concretizing and abstruction. So we were in this he'll
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: overlooking Gaza and actually an objectivist from the groove, he
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: sought me an electric wire, an electric let's say, installation
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: that went from Israel towards Gaza and said, this is
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: how we give them electricity.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: This is how we were giving them electricity throughout the war.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: Wow. Right, talk about It's one thing to talk about,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: you know, altruism and the moral of self sacrifice, and
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: it's another thing seeing it literally literally over there.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: Ah, it is so infuriating. Yep. Yeah. And he says,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: I think the new way collectivist fascist media personality is
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: self defeating. They're so irrational that Americans will rejected dumb theories.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: They don't really spread ideas, they spend species species theories, thoughts.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Well, did fascism actually spread ideas? Fascist was more of
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: a vibe than it was an ideology. It was more
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: of an aesthetic experience. It was based on this idea
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: of a theorist called Sorel of the myth. The myth
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: is like a meme. You don't you kind of get
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: what it is about, you know, glory, all that stuff,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: but it can't be explained. So it won't be the
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: first time that an ideology that is not that cannot
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: be rationally explained, so to speak, gainst gainst structure. Now
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: it's not as appealing as fascism because fascists had positive
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: promise about the future. These people here again, they don't
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: even bother to give you this positive vision. So I
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: hope our friend is onto something, and you know, maybe
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: people will see through the through the bs.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, think about how they're softening the culture though, right,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: So you know, I remember in twenty sixteen I did
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: a show on the ultright, and then I got all
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: this anti Semitic stuff in my inbox and it lasted
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: for a few days and then it disappeared and it
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: was swastikas and it was it was pretty you know, gross,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: but it was it was quick and went away, and
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: you know, it was weird, it was completely And now
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: I get the anti semitic stuff every day on a
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: regular basis, much more sophisticated. I mean, still gross, but
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: much more sophisticated. I don't get swastikas anymore. They don't,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: they don't, they're not like that. But it's it's just
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: just subtle anti semitism. And some of it does you know,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: they do say to the gas chambers go basically, but
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: it's now everywhere online, it's like and we've seen it's
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: be normalized. So yeah, I mean, the bulk of them
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: people are not anti Semitic. The bulk of the American
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: people are not quite there yet. But who would have
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: thought ten years ago the millions would be because millions
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: are right, and then what's the next thing to be
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: do we get desensitized to? Right? What's the next big
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: thing we get desensitized to? And you know is Jdvans
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: might lose a few ones next time, but then the
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: left will you know, there'll be a democratic president, he'll
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: screw things up, and then somebody like JD. Vance will
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: come maybe more charisma than JD and say, look, you
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: know you gave the left a chance, but we've got
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: to complete the Trump Revolution or whatever it is that
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: they think they are doing and rally the forces. So
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: his I don't think it works quite that way. You know,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: it's usually disgusting. I mean, Hitler was this little obnoxious,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: horrible and you know, how did Hitler become charismatic? Right?
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: I mean he was like a little Nick Fentes. What
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: was he what was he yelling? Was yelling intellectuals, you know,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: deep ideas. Now he was yelling exactly what Nick Fointeress
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: is yelling. So any any actually.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: Nick Foendus is more has something that Hitler didn't have.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Nick Foenders can be funny. Hitler never was that hit
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: was a better ordertor than Nick friends. But but to
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: understand audience, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's no way someone could
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: have predicted, oh yeah, this guy's obviously you know he's
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: gonna win, and and yet it happened.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: So I mean that's the what we can't do. I
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: think what we can't do is say, oh, no, these
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: people are not serious, they're never gonna win. Let's ignore them. No,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is the enemy and and uh, they
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: have to be dealt with, They have to be confronted.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know if we can, if we have an impact,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: but we certainly need to try. We certainly need to.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and most importantly, they don't have a positive vision.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: This is our strongest weapon. This is the tool that
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: we have that people. I think at the end of
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: the day, most people would want to see something. Most
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: people are not. Their vision of life is not the
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: vision of the Groypers. Like they have moments where they strive,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: they thrive or something better, and they're very thirsty for
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: this and no one offers it these days.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: Steph says, I mean taught me how to properly value
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: my life, achievement, relationship, love, and art. I moved from
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: nihilistic metal music to romantic classical What was your moment
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: of awakening to Iron Man's aesthetic and sense of life?
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: Me or you? I think you, you're you're the guest.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: Well, so the sense of life and they're romantic and
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. So this was there already from communism.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: So I used to love Sostakovich. I still love Sostakovich.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: I used to love like you know, the cinemau of Asenstein.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: I still like the cinemau of Eisenstein. I mean out
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: of context. Obviously I don't like it because I want
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: the boss party to drive. But I mean, I let
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: me give this challenge to people. Go and watch in
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: Eisenstein's October the scene where Lendin arrives in the Petrograd station,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: and I mean, it's impossible not to realize that.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 3: This is something.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: This is this is like an artistic vision of something
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: brilliant and and you can you can enjoy this quote unquote,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: quote unquote out of out of context. And actually I
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: was surprised, so when I when I found out which
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: music I Ran had in her mind when she wrote
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: Harles Concerto, I was expecting something much closer to Sosta
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: Covid or something much closer to maybe Tsaikovski the eighteen
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: twelve overtour, rather than the thing by mussur by what
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: the name of that guy? Who who's he based?
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 3: So it's very personal, how you sorry?
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's not rachmanin the concert the Rakhmaninov
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: was one of her favorite ones, but they say that
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: it's it's the other one by Musky, which I'm.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: Not exhibition what pictures and an exhibition by Musoski.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: I think I'm not sure, but I was very surprised.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: It was very much like low key, low energy compared
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: to what I had and what I was expected.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: I've always thought it was Wohmaninov.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: And Rachmaninoff is mentioned in The Founder everywhere it says
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: it's the first note.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: And Tchaikowsky is mentioned some way.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: Chaikovsky's mentioned again in the in the Foundry.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: But anyway, what I mean is, you know how you envision,
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: like this esthetic vision is very personal and it has
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: to you do with what are your experiences with with art.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: So for example, the most the strongest artistic reaction I
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: ever had to something and your own will will think
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: I'm a complete feelis team was when I recently rewatched
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: Interstellar in IMAX. So because like this is what got
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: me into I don't know, radical politics or whatever. It
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: was this vision of you know, of humanity triumphing and
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: conquering and overcoming and all that stuff. So this is
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: so this is something that it had more effect on
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: me than anything else that I have this vision that
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: you know, we can we can overcome everything and literally
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: sky is the limit.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is a that is a an
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: amazingly positive aspect of Interstellar. Was I going to say, oh, yeah,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: I was going to say that I I guess I
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: should give just to cover another shot. I've never Likedchostakovich.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: Listen to Learning Grand Symphony, but listen to it from
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: the version of the Soviet version from the fifties, Like
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: I don't want to suction, you know. I know Iron
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: Rand even had was thinking of whether she should buy
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: discs from Soviet Union. But I think they they their
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: understanding of the piece is better than how it's reproduced lately,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: which is way less glorious.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I would say that my awakening to
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: Rand's aesthetics and sense of life happened in two stages. First,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: I was reading her novels. I was young, so I
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: was much younger than eCos. I didn't have an aesthetic.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't have much of an aesthetic understanding before that, right,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: I was pop music and I read a lot, So
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: I read a lot of popular and I liked a
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: lot of bizarre European movies, and so I didn't have
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: much of an aesthetic background painting. My parents had all
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: modern arts in the house, so it was that, and
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: then Phase two was the first time I met other
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: objectivists in Israel. Literally the first meeting we had, we
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: were sitting around and talking. First time, I thought it
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: was the only objectives on the planet basically, and they
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: asked me if I knew anything about classical music, and
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: I said no, and he put on, I think it's
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: a second movement of Tchaikowsky's second Piano Concerto, or maybe
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: it's yeah, I think it's a second and I you know,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: it just blew me away, you know, and they sat
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: quietly listening to the music right the whole There was
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: like maybe five six seven people there and everybody just
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: sat quietly listening to the music, taking it seriously like
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: this is this is this is something you should do,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't just this is not background, this is an experience,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: and app blew me away. And then it became a huge,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: you know, a huge fan of classical music, and then
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: learned about other art forms and so that was that
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: was the That was when it really took off for
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: me Qua Aesthetics and the objectivist group in Israel at
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: the time. We spent more time probably on aesthetics than
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: any anything else. We watched movies together, we saw slide
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: shows of art. We you know, we listened to music together.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: We did all this stuff together. We'd go to Cinematech
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: regularly to watch movies. So it's very organized around aesthetics.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: So it seems one last thing, seems our friend looks
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: like he expects a particular moment. So twenty fifteen, I
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: was working a crappy job as a teaching assistant. I
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: was traveling a lot because I was doing outreas in
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: my university. And I remember traveling in a bus in
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: some horrible industrial towns in Kent, listening to the early
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: version of your own Brooks.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: So you had something on Sinatra. It was an episode.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: So part of the episode was how crappy California regulations
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: were and.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 3: The other half was Sinatra.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: And I remember being in this kind of decadent post
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: industrial environment and listening about you know, Sinatra, and I
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: still remember the feeling that like, okay, so art is
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: also about what life could be, and you can be
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: in a crappy place but travel live it without listening
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: to the music.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 3: But I was listening to you talking about Sinatra.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: So this is a moment I remember.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: It was one of these. I remember where I.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: Was moments twenty fifteen. Wow. Yeah, again, I have a
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: vague collection, and maybe I did something like that, but
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: I'm glad it happen. Absolutely, I'm glad I had an impact,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: all right, Andrew? Can I get your on a Nikosa's
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: take on this. In trying to override altruism with egoism,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: one must change the essential action concept when denotes with
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: morality by marginalizing the term helping and idealizing creating. You
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: go first, Yeah, I mean, I really do think that's true.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a sense in which it's like what
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: Aristotle talks about is how do you achieve a golden mean?
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: You achieve it by going a little beyond right, and
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: then you kind of orient around the mean, but you
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: have to so to experience it. And I definitely think
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: that altruism conditions you around helping and around feeling guilty
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: if you don't help, and it really has you. That's
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: the whole orientation in dealing with other people is their
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: well being, not yours, and this certainly needs to be
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: a correction to that. And while helping is not a
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: bad thing, it might be that for a while you
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: have to not help even when you would help otherwise,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: because you have to get rid of that urge, that
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: altruistic urge to place the war being of somebody else
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: above your own. And I think you know creating is
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: part of it. There's probably more that you could say
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: about than creating, but the whole focus on self and
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: doing your own thing and making an effort to figure
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: out what your own thing is and what actually brings
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: you pleasure and satisfaction and happiness and all of that.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: Really devoting time to that is something you know you
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: need to do early on, I think again to get
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: to get to we oient your focus to yourself versus
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: the other. So, yes, I think there's a lot to that.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm obviously you have a better answer.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: I would just say say this is that when it
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: comes to issues that have do with psychology, your own psychology,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: you cannot just say from one day to the next,
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: oh now I realize that altruithm is, but so from
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: today my life changes. How Actually it would take many,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: many years. So let me give an example. Okay, let's
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: say you live your whole life being really living in
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: a culture of altruism and also having the character trait
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: of being let's say, people's pleaser. I don't know what's
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: the physical term, but you get what I mean. And
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: one day you come across iron rand okay, and slowly
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: you realize, okay, altruism is a poison and rational selfishness
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: way to go. You fool yourself if you think that
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: you're going to change in your personal life just because
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: you made the philosophical realization that the rational selfisiness is good. Obviously,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: now you have let's say, a lighthouse to look forward.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 3: You have, you have a point of reference.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: But still it's so difficult to get rid of personal
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: and psychological bagage. So these identifications are good, but they're
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: just the beginning of a journey.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, Liam. If both parties explicit socialists, what
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: political force is left to defend individual rights? Is it
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: in the courts?
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: Well, in the court someone you know, someone puts these courts,
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: these courts at place. So at the end of the day,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: if you've lost completely the battle of ideas, nothing can
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: save you, nothing can protect it.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: Starts and events from the battle of ideas.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: If both parties are a socialists, we need to run
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: a guerrilla warfare in a different field. In the field
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: of ideas on social media and institutions, putting pressures on
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: institutions like what are you know what some common friends
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: did with living heritage. This is the type of stuff
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: that you can do. But there is no magical formula
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: where the whole culture is completely alien to the idea
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: of freedom and you know, somehow you can you can
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: save yourself, I mean your culture from what is coming.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: There is no such hack.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Asna says, the courts are just products of ideas.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: So they can slow things down in the US because
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: they have lifetime appointments and they can stay there for
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: a long time. But they can't prevent it. They can
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: just slow it down. Mhm right. Rufel says, well, I
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: see both of you in Poto next year. It's time
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: for Nikos to meet the real hardcore European objectivists.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: Of Yes you will. We will be in Porto in
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: I think the second week of April or something like that.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: It was thirteenth something like that, seventeenth eighteenth.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, seventeenth thirteen, something like that. This is where our yearly,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: our annual European conference will be. So looking forward to Porto,
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: a town very meaningful for all Greeks because this is
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: where we won the semi final of euro two thousand
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: and four against Czech Republics. Or Porto is in our hearts.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, I didn't know it had that historical significance.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: I thought maybe ancient Greece had established some kind of
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: outpost there. No, No, because they didn't.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they did at some point. They definitely went
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: to Marseille to the friend.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: No, they also went up the Atlantic coast of Spain.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: They were they were the side, so I do know that,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: but I don't know if they went as north as Poto,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: but they definitely were in the region. Yeah, you guys
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: should come. Nicos will be there, I will be there.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: I think is going to join us and Ben, and
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: I think Ben is not coming, but Tala is going
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: to be there, and and uh yeah it's gonna be
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: and and the Portuguese are.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: Really cool and and Aaron Smith. Aaron Smith is also
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: part of the very very cool guy. That's why I'm mentioning.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: I don't think Alan's gonna be there, and I don't
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: think Ben's gonna be there. But maybe I'm wrong. You'll
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: left to check. I think I think it's only the
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: four of us. But we'll see. But anyway, it's gonna
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: be cool no matter what. So we we did.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: We we managed to have a very cool confidence in Australia.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: It was just three of us, Me, you, you're not
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: Don plus Hailey, so we can we're can run a
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: good confidence even absolutely.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: I keep telling him just just leave, leave, leave the
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: world to Nicos and me. You can have the US.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: Well we'll take the world and and everything will be good.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you guys should come again. If you go
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: to inand dot oak Star's start here, you can find
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: a link that information about the conference. I think that
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: discount code might even apply for that. For those of
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: you who who do not qualify for a scholarship, I'm
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: not I'm not sure if they're still taking scholarships. I
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: think they are, so you should you should.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: Oh yeh, yeah, they definitely are still taking scholarship. Don't
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: quote me on this, but I think they are. So.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: If you're under thirty four, I think it is i e. Young,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: or if you.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: Are young at heart, Like if you're thirty four and
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: eleven months and you have a good reason, you give
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: something else.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: So apply for scholarship. We'd love to see you. It's
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: going to be port Us, a beautiful city, and again
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: the Portuguese are amazing, and it's a nice hotel. It's
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: it's gonna be it's gonna be a really it's gonna
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: be a good confidence, good confidence. So look forward to
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: seeing Rafael again. There Shaw's bott fifty dollars thanks. If
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: a corpulation did establish a Moon colony, what are the
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: chances that it would be more capitalist than any Earth country,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: especially after it became self supporting.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 3: It depends on who. I mean.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: It's look okay, you would hope that, okay, I'm gonna
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: do some Marxism here, right, Like the economic determinies, you
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: would expect that if someone has a brilliant mind to
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: establish this colony, he also has brilliant ideas about economics.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: But let me remind you that Einstein wrote an article
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: called white Socialism. So Einstein one of the highest I
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: people to ever live. He was a socialist. So the
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: fact that you have a brilliant mind in science and
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: even in technology doesn't guarantee that you're going to have
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: the good ideas.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: We are not Marxists, yeah, absolutely absolutely, But if you
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: want to be inspired by what is possible. In Mars
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: is a Harsh Mistress by Robert Hendline, which is a
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: fun book. It actually has a randy and character so
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: called objectivist in it, and Headline generally has kind of
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: a positive view of what happens in the once once
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: we reached the stars, and you keep having to move
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: from star a star, because once civilization reaches everywhere, it
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: becomes a collectivist. But you can keep moving. That's the
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: beauty of science fiction. You can keep going further away.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: It's not like the Earth, which is you know where
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: you're gonna go. We're stuck, right, Neo. Did you read Headline?
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: I started reading it to do my objectivist duty. I
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: can't get into science fiction. It's I cannot, I cannot.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: I cannot put myself into that world. So I got confused,
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: to be honest, like who is who? Where do they
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: come from? Which? Which?
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: Which novel did you try? Which wanted you? Shoy?
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: The Moon is a Heart's Mystery.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: I reread it years afterwards. I read it my twenties
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: and then I reread it and it wasn't it doesn't
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: really have a plot. It's not it's not very good.
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: The one my favorite is time Enough of Love Time
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: Enough of Love is my favorite with it.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: I've read a libertarian science fiction where there are some
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: libertarian garillas, which has a weird name, but I can't
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: remember it.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Neo has the October seventh War strengthen religion in Israel.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: Many Israeli YouTubers I watch once atheists say they become
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: more religious a way to unite the population.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: That's for you.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. The truth is I don't know.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if it affected people both ways.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: Is that it made some people more religious and made
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: other people less religious. I don't understand how you can
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: have an October seventh and then become more religious, like
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: now I really believe in God because he's such a
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: good guy. I mean, shouldn't you really be pissed off
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: at God after in October seventh? But the same thing
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: happened during the Holocaust. So a lot of after the
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: Holocaust survivors, many of them became less religious, became atheists,
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: but many also became religious more religious. So it affects
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: It depends on your psychology. It affects people in different ways.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: There is an element of we need something to unite
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: US as a country. I mean, people think as well
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: as all these Jews, and therefore it's ethnocentric or collective,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: you know. But all these Jews are just a bunch
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: of individuals, you know, and the they don't have the
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: vocabulary to say that they're fighting for freedom. Sadly, they
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: don't have the philosophy. So they might look to religion
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: to unite them. But I haven't seen any data, and
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: we'd have to ask bo was. I haven't seen any
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: data to suggest that it's overwhelmingly in one direction or another.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, my family is all secular. I don't think
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: any of them will become more religious post October seventh,
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: and maker says Coca Cawson Catlson. I think is the
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: two heat of the right. Well to he was, he
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: gives them too much credit.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do he had the plan? He was a very talented,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: you know, evil mastermind. I don't think target is. If
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: he was like that, he wouldn't be bringing you the
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: random guy who said that I had a drag infuse
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: their homeless, say homosexual sex with Obama, Like he would
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: do something better than that.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: All right, Not you have a algorithm, says yeah, you
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: shouldn't ask these kind of questions, because can you speak
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: to the AOI high command to make sure your run
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: is on the stage with Stephen Pinker? Ocon I don't
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: think so.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: You you are you are talking to the to the
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: chairman of the board of AARI, and I'm gonna talk
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: to aar I to put the sage right by the way.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: Are you not on stage with Pinker?
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: I have no idea. Nobody's spoken to me. I'm not
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: the high command, so the people who make decisions don't
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: don't don't ask me about it.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: So I appreciate the contribution to the soul. So if
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: I get the chance, I'll ask.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have no idea. Who is it's a It's
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: gonna be an interesting panel or whatever it is with
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: Stephen Piker, and I hope akas on there that that
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: I can say.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, you and on car
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: would be the obvious choice.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: I think that would that would be fun.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: That was also the plan for the Peterson panel in
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: And somebody overworld somebody.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I think I think, I mean I was
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: on wasn't not Yeah, but he wasn't known because he
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: had something else to do or.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: Something, And it was greg I think, ye, I like numbers.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: When do you think racists are more were more intellectual?
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: Races were more intellectual when they viewed racism as science
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: first of all, so they they viewed themselves as following
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: following the progress of science. And again, I mean, you know,
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: go read and don't go read. But if you want
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: go read the American Renaissance then let's say the official
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: portal of the of White national Listen. Compare them with
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: with the Nick Friends runs, and you see that the
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: one has at least the ambition of presenting an intellectual
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: and intellectual view.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and the the think about think about
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: the South during slavery, they were super I mean they
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: wrote books and essays and and philosophical justification was very
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: influenced by Hegel and uh and and you know this
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: was not a I mean, it's all a rationalization, right,
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: but they they offered an attempt at an intellectual defense
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: of their racism. What kind of intellectual defense do you
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: get from these guys today?
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even if you watch, if you go
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: and read what's Pat Buchanan's famous culture war speech, I mean,
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: you compare it with anyone from a sea pac or
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: amfest or I mean, there's no comparison.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: Rock, does China have an advantage of America by not
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: worrying about wasting time or resources on the demands of morons,
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: woke religion, fantasy, socialism, the whole thing, You know, do
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: they have anything?
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: They do have an advantage on that, but they have
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: a disadvantage at the end of the day. They're a
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: state around economy, so it's not an advantage, it's just
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: cutting some of the disadvantage. Or put differently, the West
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: is imposing disadvantages on itself that it should be ages
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: ahead of China, and it's not because of all these
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: things that you mentioned.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: Rock continues on the China theme. Could you argue that
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: the US is nearly as corrupt as China? Well, China
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: is more realistic. US politicians are true believers or want
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: to be central planners restrained only by the Constitution.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, First of all, with A, you can't say that.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: B you can't say almost anything in China because I
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: doubt whether there's a handful of people in the world
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: who can and definitely not one of them who can
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: understand what is happening in China. So you know, you
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: think China has this thing that looks like a free economy. Actually,
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: most of the enterprises in China are controlled by the
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: Chinese Communist part or people close to the Chinese Communist Party.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: So for what it's worth, I think we are over
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: hyping China. And I know this because we did the
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: same thing with Soviet Union. So I wouldn't be surprised
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: if China is a giant, like a paper tiger in
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: economic terms, more than with the than we'd expect.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the differences. China has skyscrapers and SOVIETID
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: but and it has it has tech. But yes, I
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: think we over hype China. You know, there's no question,
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: Land says. I like this new tradition of having Nikos
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: on before the new year. Thank you Allan, we make
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: it happen. Andrew, what experienced set of experiences made me
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: Coos seriously question his former political collectivism.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: Mostly reality to be honest with you, my friend, and so,
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: first of all, taking seriously Marxist labor theory of value
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: and not being able to see it in real life.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: But the big thing was the financial crisis in Greece.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: I tried to apply the Marxist schemes to explain the
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: crisis in Greece, and it was absolutely impossible. So you
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: had a system that made sense as a as a
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: closed system, as long as you don't try to apply
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: it to the reality, to the real world. So it
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: was a rationalization, as we would say today, something that
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: is not connected to reality. So this is where I
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: started questioning Marxist when it couldn't explain life, and also
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: when I realized that my former comrades were not really
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: interested on progress.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 3: So I was very big on progress.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: You know what today you'd call transhuman is quote unquote,
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: and I realize these people, they find it too much,
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: even if you didn't recycle.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 3: So I thought, I'm on the wrong train here.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: Let's see Christian A great discussion of two great thinkers.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: Off topic, but who win the Champions League next year?
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: I would put my money on the.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: Gunners, Okay, the Arsenal So the Gunners is Arsenal, So
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: Arsenal is I think they have more chance of winning
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: the Champions League than the Premier League because they're this thing,
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: this team that they're excellent in not conceding goals and
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: winning one goal. And usually these type of teams can
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: do better in competitions with a lot of knockouts. Now,
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: every second that this discussion goes on, American viewers are
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: dropping off because they don't probably understand even about what
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: sport that we're talking about. So, yes, I think it's
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: more possible that Arsenal wins the Champions League than the
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: Premier League.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: But who do you think will win the Champions League?
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: It's you can never tell who's gonna win the Champions
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: League because, as opposed to the NBA, which has series,
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: Champions League is either knockout at games of two or
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: the final is a single game. So a lot has
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: to do with lack. So last year the best team
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: won the Champions League, which was parisons their men. Quite
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: often the best team does not win the Champions League
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: because so much has to do with timing, luck, injuries. Otherwise,
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: Manster City of pep Guardiola would win the Champions League
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: basically every year, but it only happened once.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: Cook says Detroit Basketball with lots of exclamation points.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very good for the regular season. I don't think
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: it's going to go far in the playoffs. Having said that,
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: the East this year is very open, so actually not.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: Now that the thing about it? Yeah, who's gonna stop
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: them in the East?
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Maybe, but.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: Don't overhype teams in the regular season.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: So who wins the NBA Championship?
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: Someone from the West? I never, I will never bet
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: against your kids. So yeah, Balkan Balkan power.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: It's Denver Okay, Molten splendor. Who currently in power in
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: the US? Would you consider a fascist who is currently
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: working to create a fascist state in the US?
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: Well, no one is working to create the fastest state.
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: But there's no question that there are many people in
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: the American right who have a vision that the state
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: should have more power.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 3: No, is it going to be fastiest?
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 3: Are they dangerous? Yes?
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I would say Jay devansis is he he
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: would be happy with more power, Let's put it this way.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: And he has the he has the intellectual and two
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: rads to dress it intellect where as Trump is more
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: of an instinctive authoritarian but not someone who can dress
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: it intellectually.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: Kim should one even try to debate commism socialists in
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: the wild? If he has what a good strategies of
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: things to address?
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 3: So would it be worth doing?
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: It?
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 3: Depends who is the audience.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: So it's gonna be hard on you, it's gonna be
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: unpleasant for you, if you think it's worth it. And
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: there's some people in the audience who are.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: But I know she is in the wild. I think
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: she's implying that in the wild means not in front
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: of an audience. I mean, you know, just as a
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: normal human being, would you go.
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, unless if you want to learn something,
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: unless if you want to learn something. So there used
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: to being the past that I knew someone who was
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: a white nationalist and we were in the same circles
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: in a let's say, how to put the sports training environment,
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: and you know, someone would say, oh, you know, you
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: shouldn't sanction. But he was literally the first person I
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: knew from that movement. So I thought I was very
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: curious to like, Okay, what do these people actually believe?
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: And it was very interesting you realize that some of
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: the things that you think, oh, you know, they would
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: never believe them, they actually believed them. But the point
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: was not to debate them to prove them wrong. The
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: point was to see, out of intellectual interest, what do
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: they truly believe? Now this is very specific. This is
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: something to that has to do with my job. So
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: I think for the average person, no, it's not worth it.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: Yep, thank you, Kim Christian. Constantly the populist left in Germany,
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: Niicos must pay attention to sow Wagon.
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know they left in Germany. The publish left
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: did better in the last elections, but.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: Have to I think she was disappointing, right, I mean,
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: I think they expected her to do much better than
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: she really did.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: Well, she did better than you know, what they would
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: expect from the Linker back in the day. But again
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: the German the left German that the left in Germany
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: is too specific. You also have the Green Party which
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: has become way more institutionalized. So it's I'll say the
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: same thing I said about the Detroit Pistons. Let's wait
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: and see. It's it's too premature.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: Well it says I think the left likes to see
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: homeless in American cities because they see they can point
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: their fingers and say see capitalism bad.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah I can.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: I can definitely verify this. This was my psychology as
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: a leftist. It was, and it was very nihilistic and envious.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not proud of.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: It, but it was true, Khudababa is there quin code
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: poem on the wall behind Nikos. No, she was ever sailed.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: It's called the pitchure of a sailing ship.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: Yes. So the history of this is I read this
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: poem at the darkest dark of the first lockdown, when
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: the Cords were also doing their civil disobedience against the lockdowns.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: So I communicated to them my admiration. We were also
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: back then in the same we would meet through the
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: andre and Center UK programs. So Linda Cord very kindly
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: tried to post this in Greece because we are basically
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: a third world country. They returned it to here, so
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: she gave it to me in person, last token, and
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: I'm very thankful to both the Cords.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: It's a very beautiful poem and it's very nice to
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: have in my house.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: Good matches. Why to put an Orthodox Christians like Dostoyevsky.
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: That's a question for for you. I think you've explained
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: it us. It it cut SuDS the darkness and the
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: malevel and premise of Rosa Litterally, I wouldn't know, I
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: wouldn't know much, and I wouldn't even trust that these
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: people can enjoy anything like I think someone like dug him,
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: do you think he enjoyed he truly enjoys anything. So
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: I think we give them too much credited. We think
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: they enjoy Dostojevky. Probably they like to name drop him.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: And by the way, Dostoyevsky was very popular among many
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: early fascists.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but I don't know why. So, I
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 3: mean that's a good answer.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: It's a rejection. I mean he basically says that without authority,
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: and in a sense of religion, religious authority, ye have
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 2: an oky right and and okay, as a negative, not
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: a s positive, you know, you have nihilism. So the
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: only alternative to Christianity is nihilism and and just fill
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: in authoritarian commandment based system instead of Christianity. So anybody
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: who's got an authoritarian bent, I think, is going to
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: intellectually that's not let's say, like the literature, but intellectually
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: appreciate Dostoevsky.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's not.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: Well Matt's quoted line, if God doesn't exist, everything is permitted.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: So it's what you said, without God, without authority, there's anarchy.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: And he concreatizes it. Well, right, I mean, he gives
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: us a psychology of somebody who stops believing in God
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: and as a nihilist, so he really concreatizes it makes
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: it real, right, Silvana says, strangely and a strange land
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: is my choice for hand line? How you on? And
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: nicause I didn't? I mean, I liked the book. I
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 2: enjoyed it when I read it a long, long long
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: time ago. But I have to say I enjoyed some
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: of his other books more. It's a weird book, strange
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: and strange line, and I'm sure for with it today
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: I think it was even with it power crash bang.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: How would an objective society handle wealthy Wolfe? Wolfe doesn't
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: fighting as a SOULDI require some kind of altruism.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: Well, okay, this is the I mean, the obvious example
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: I give there is let's say you are the Coods
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: and you're fighting isis. So the prospect is either I
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: live as a slave to some medieval sadists, or I die,
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: or someone stands up to them with a very real,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: cast very real sorry possibility that you die. In that case,
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: it's not really a sacrifice. It's just that the prospect
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: of dying is better than living under these beasts. Now,
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: the army in particularly the special corps of the army
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: have something which is also appealing, that you can try
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: to be your best self, that you have the pride
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: of defending the values that are important to you. I
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: can totally imagine people joining, and people are joining and
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: have joined forever professional army or the special forces in
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: the army with a put it this way, selfish, selfish motivation,
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: which is, let me see my limits, let me see
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: how my life will be. And actually I didn't go
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: to the army. I was drafted to the army and
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: I joined despite my will, you know. Actually, so I
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: wouldn't say that I would want people to experience what experience.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: But in retrospect, the army and joining a special corporate
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: very good. Good for me because it was the first
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: time in my life that I felt pride that I
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: actually did did something. So obviously this is not to
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: say it's in favor of the draft, but in retrospect
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: I could see good reasons why someone would want to
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: go through this voluntarily for very quote unquote selfish reasons.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree with what Nico said. I mean the
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: point is that people who go fight in the military.
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: I mean it could be as extreme as an example
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: of the coulds and isis. But it could be that
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: you want your children and your family, the people close
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: to you, the people important to you, and you yourself
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: to be free from you know, the risk of being
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: murdered by terrorists or you know October seventh happening to
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: you right if you're in Israel. I mean, Israeli's volunteered
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: like crazy to go fight after October seventh. Why because
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: they understood the existential nature of it. So I think
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: many Israelis who are very skeptical about the army and
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: then really want to go and October seventh to really
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 2: change them because they suddenly it conquitized to them in
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: a really horrific way what they were fighting for. They
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: were fighting for their lives. Now, one of the things
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: you get when you have a free country is and
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: you have an objective of society, is that when there's
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: a war that is indeed sacrificial, you're going to get
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: people resisting going to fight for it. So imagine imagine
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: World War One in America, without a draft and with
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: a more rational society, people would go, why am I
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: going to Europe to dine in the trenches for who?
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 2: For the British or the Germans who cares. They're no
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: good guys and no bad guys here, what's the point?
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 2: So nobody would volunteer, and if taxation was voluntary, nobody
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 2: would pay extra taxes to go to war, and America
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 2: could never join the war because there would be never
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: there'd never be enough support to join it. So an
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 2: objective of society has to you only go to war
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 2: when it's essential to go to war, which means only
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: when you're truly fighting for the protection of the individual
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: rights to the people. And people would be willing to
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: fight such words because of what you're fighting for.
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: And on a psychological level, our friends who think, how
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: many people freely go and become, for example, mixed martial artists,
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: which is very a brutal endeavor. So many people want
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: this adrenaline and this type of life, so they would
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: do it also voluntarily.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 2: For the army. Yep, I think that's right, Iconivore something
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 2: like that. You and let's really impress Nikos. I don't
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: know if you're on person or insulting. I'm going to
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 2: take a shot at this.
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 5: So TiO UK police now sixty right, yeah, So here's
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 5: the out for me.
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 2: He spelled it out phonetically.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: It's very simple. You read every syllable as you read it,
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: you pronounce it as you read it. So ct polus, yeah,
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: no pulaws you read what do you see? It's not
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: one of these like Eastern European group. It's actually very
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: easy to pronounce, much easier than you think.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think. When I learned to read,
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: I learned using phonics.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 3: But what okay, maybe that's I think that's a problem
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 3: to my European mind.
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: It's very simple and easy.
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: So all right, power crash bang. How are people in
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: dreary menial jobs? Okay, I guess he's new to objectives
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 2: and trying to understand. Okay, how are people in dreary
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: menial jobs supposed to find fulfillment in their career? Garbage
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: collectors and Janeitus, for example, how can their job provide
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 2: a robust, central purpose and happiness?
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I've literally I'm not going to be one
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: of these, jow I've literally been a garbage collector. But
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: I've literally been a garbage collector. And I'll let me
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: tell you something. It was a job I held for
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: a few months while I was doing my PhD. And
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: here's how it gave a meaning. A it was the
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: first time in my life that did that. I made
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: quote good money. So this was the time where there
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: was a crisis in Greece and it was a job
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: in the university that no one wanted, so therefore it
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 1: paid well. So you find meaning first of all because
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: you support yourself. And second, you're not going to have
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: these odds are you're not going to have this job
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. You use this job
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: and you do it as best as you can because
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 1: you get pride. I mean I got pride when it
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: was Sunday morning after a night which was an absolute
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: mess at the club. Imagine now at the university night club,
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 1: and then after you're there for two hours, it's again clean.
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: So any job that you do it well give you
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: some form of pride. But also you're not going to
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: do it for the rest of your life. You do
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: it well and then you go on.
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 2: But some people are going to do it for the
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: rest of their life, right, Some people have limited ability
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: and this is.
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but still, I mean I usually always the example
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: of there's a lady cleaner that my family we've been
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: using her for ages. Sheees, I think she's like the
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: Lebron James of cleaner. She cleans so efficiently and quickly,
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: and she's in such high demand that I have to
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: book here like weeks weeks in advance. And she takes
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: pride in it.
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 3: It's very good. I know how to do it.
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: She doesn't take breaks, she doesn't check her phone, sees
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: a productivity like people have things to learn from her,
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: and she's proud about this. This is and she has
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: other hobbies also, so it's not that her horizons are low.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: But she's good at it, she's okay with it, and
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: you know, she tries to give more time to her family,
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: so she wasn't interested in doing a different profession. Also,
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: she was an immigrants, so but it's there's nothing wrong
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: with it and nothing demeaning. It doesn't her best of
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: your ability. She's very good at it. She gets she's
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: proud on it, and there's no problem with it.
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And and you can find ways to improved, to
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 2: do it better, to challenge yourself, even in the most
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: menial jobs. You can do that. And a lot of
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: times they're happier people who have sophisticated jobs. Andrew, do
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: you see any signs of a rational left contingent forming
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 2: that is open to being more pro free markets.
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 3: Yes, as as long as it's not part of the left.
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: So the only good thing that came out of the
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: debuckle of the left after October seven is how many
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: people realize that, what do I have to do with
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: this freak show? So these people can be more open
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: to our methods, and as long as they as they
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: as long as they are now in search of a
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: new intellectual alliance, we can have discussions with them at listener.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: Carl Nikos, has religion had any influence in your life
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: during your teenage years or before your twenties.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very very little impact. It had a huge cultural impact.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: So the reason I was so much anti West is
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: because in Greece being anti West has to do not
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: only with anty capitals of the left, but also with
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: the anti Western sentiment of the Orthodox, the Orthodox Church.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: So always Western influences, American influencers were viewed with the suspicions.
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: So maybe this is the only way it had an impact.
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: And also it had the impact that the altruism of
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: the left I was getting the thumbs up even from
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 1: religious people.
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: So there was.
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: It's never a doubt that, even though I was a
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: radical leftist, I was part of the good guys. Even
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: my political enemies would tell me so, because I was
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: still an altrlist.
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 2: Interesting sender says, what are some of your favorite nonfiction
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: non wan fiction books, non ruand fiction books. Favorites?
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, So growing up it was Jules vern particularly Twenty
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: Thousand Leagues Under the Sea. I view it as almost
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: a Randi and Ethos of a book, because you have
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: a man of the mind declaring a revolt against the
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: rest of the world.
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 3: That's Captain Nemo.
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: By the way, Well, I love saying I consider saying,
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: you know, the Cowboy, the best encapsulation of the best
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: congredization of this notion of you know, of virtue and
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: march masculinity.
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 3: How we're going to put it. I recently read The
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 3: Count of Monte Cristo.
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: I finished it. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant, obviously more like reading
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 1: Agatha Christie and I go through phases.
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 3: I liked Milan Kundra for many years.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: What else, it's.
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 3: That's that's the first thing that come to mind.
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say throughout my life Zules Verne so
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: things with a positive positive positivision.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: Ju eat can I who called my m a y?
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 2: You don't know they make a couple of books, you know,
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: I can't they were Westerns.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: Oh no, okay, yeah, I've read some Westerns, but I
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: don't remember. I don't remember tal I like so his.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: The famous thing about him is that he was Hitler's
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 2: favorite author.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: I tried to find some German romantics who were the
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: favorite of Himmler, because I told you, I want to
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: image myself. It's difficult to find them even in Amazon there.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: So you know what's funny about Kamai. He was Hitler's
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 2: favorite author. All his books were translating Hebrew. I read
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 2: all of them when I was a teenager. Right, It's
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: hugely popular in Israel, and only one or two of
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: them were ever translated into English. And it's almost impossible
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: to find any of his books, but in Hebrew you
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: can find them all.
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: That's where that's very interesting. Yeah. So, as I said earlier,
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: I go through I try to read fiction that has
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: that helps me also understand nonfiction. So German romanticism, like
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 1: medieval stories, that type of stuff is another area where
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: I jumped into. I even read that book that was
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: that gave rise to the birth of the nation and
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: white supremacism, The Landsman Oka And yeah, not not particularly
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 1: not something particularly interesting even as propaganda. So yeah, anyway, okay.
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: We got two last questions. I think Linda says, I
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: recommend The Martian Way by Isaac Asimov.
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 3: I had this as a kid. I never read it.
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: Isaac Asimov is quite a popular in Greece, yep.
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: I read some of his books when I was a kid.
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 2: Andrew says, isn't because optimistic about the future trajectory of
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 2: the influence of objectivist movements on the culture. There's a
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: closing question for.
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: You, Okay. So the question I always have is we
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 1: should be Why are we I think we should be
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: angrier for the fact that we don't have the impact
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 1: that we should have. So I always try to wonder
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: why his toys, for example, having such a cultural appeal
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: whereas we don't. Why does Jordan Peterson have a bigger
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: audience than your own? So the answer is yes, we
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: should at least be willing to have the aspiration to
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: have much more. That's where it will start. It will
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: start by us becoming angry that we don't have this impact.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 2: What do we do with that anger? What happens?
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: Then we try to find ways to make it more relevant.
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: We don't become complacent. We learn from other people. So
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 1: for example, I try to understand what does Ryan Holly
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: they do to maketices, to maketices think. We try to
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: see what other movements are doing. So, for example, I
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: read with a lot of interest the biography of Malcolm X.
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: It was horrific intellectually, like one of the most racist
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: books I've ever read in my life. At the same time,
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: this guy was basically a movement by himself. So I
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 1: try to learn and get ideas even from bad movements.
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 1: The problem is that bad movements usually appeal to different
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 1: things than the ones that we appeal so there's not
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 1: much we can learn, let's say, from fascist although fastest
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 1: was a machine of political propaganda, because we appeal to
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: different things than what the Fastest or Marlcolm X was appealing.
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: But at least it's worth trying to understand how movements
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: become successful.
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, the one positive movement worth reading is the Enlightenment.
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: Is to try to figure out what they did in
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: the Enlightenment that had the kind of profound impact that
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: it did. It's it's much subtler. There's no leader, there's
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: no one guy that you know does it all. But
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: it's probably how we will change the world rather than
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 2: how the negative because the negative movements are often around
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: one person, you know, somebody with charisma and ideas and
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 2: marketing ability.
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but to use that night that line from night Rider,
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 1: one man can make a difference.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 3: And again see what happened with me, Laye.
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 1: We don't know what's going to be the trajector of
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 1: the country, but it's worth it's worth trying. And again
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: I'm talking to the person who did more as one
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: person to spread this this idea. So I think you,
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: you know, you understand very well what one person can
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: can do.
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'd still like to have as beginning audience as
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: Judan Peterson. I've been angry, So I've done that, all right, Loan.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 2: The sentence says Inland was the most persuasive objectivist obviously,
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 2: so what can we learn from her? A good question.
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 1: Well, it's not much we can learn because he operated
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 1: at the level which is different for us to operate.
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 1: Having said that, I don't think it was a particular.
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: You know, she didn't aspire to be a great public
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 1: speaker or a great that was not her thing, like
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 1: reaching the masses through other means rather than her book
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: or get philosophy that was not here, that was not
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 1: her work. So it's it's like, you know, you start
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: playing basketball and water. What can I learn from Michael Jordan? Well,
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 1: not much, it's not it's not. It's you know, start
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: with more realistic role models.
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and invader as an artist, and that
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 2: that also differentiates We're not artists. I'm not going to
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: write a novel. Nichols is not going to produce a
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: great painting. And so it's it's it's we operate on
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: just one of the dimensions that I operated or she
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: was very multi dimensional, and it's really your art that
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: elevated her and made her as popular and as big
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 2: as she she was. We're leveraging her art in order
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 2: to you know, to be successful.
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 3: And what the privilege it is.
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: Again, let's let's finish with this right that as a movement,
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 1: we're very very lucky that we have this vision and
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 1: this can be so inspiring to so many to so
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: many people. So let's make good use of.
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 2: It absolutely all right, always a pleasure, Nicos, thank you,
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 2: thank you, ern I will see you in Porto.
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 1: And before then in Zoom. But yeah, see all important.
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: Just to remind people the course AARI Live courses. Find
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: that course with you'll see Mussolin and Hitler and if
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: you want to give me a follow on Twitter and YouTube.
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 3: That should also be appreciate.
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Nicos is a great Twitter feed. He really does
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 2: good tweets, so check him out on Twitter and follow
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: him there. And yes, check out er I Live and
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 2: then particular Nicos's course. I'm also teaching a course next
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 2: semester on air I Live. But check it out and
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 2: take advantage of discount and sign up and have a
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 2: happy new year. Everybody happy happy. I'll see you guys
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 2: tomorrow and Wednesday. We got the big show on Wednesday,
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: uh you know, raising tons of money. But but unicos,
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 2: have a great new year and I will see you
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: in Poto by everybody much, Bi