Latest / International Flavor: Where the Truth Tastes Better / HB 2378: ATC police-power creep, Missouri Bar secrecy, and why “exigent circumstances” threatens the Fourth Amendment today in Missouri

Transcript

HB 2378: ATC police-power creep, Missouri Bar secrecy, and why “exigent circumstances” threatens the Fourth Amendment today in Missouri · International Flavor: Where the Truth Tastes Better

• 0:00
  Hello, good morning.
• 0:00
  Welcome.
• 0:01
  I'm Samuel Trapp.
• 0:02
  This is International Flavor.
• 0:06
  It is Tuesday.
• 0:09
  Are we already on Wednesday?
• 0:11
  I don't even know what day I'm on.
• 0:13
  How depressing for me.
• 0:16
  I'm glad to have you though.
• 0:17
  Damn glad to have you here at damradio
• 0:19
  .com forward slash live if that's how you're
• 0:22
  listening.
• 0:23
  And then we're coming to you live from
• 0:26
  the Lake Ozark Real Estate of the Art
• 0:28
  Studio.
• 0:28
  This is International Flavor.
• 0:30
  If you feel like calling in you can
• 0:31
  do so at 573-746-8020, which would
• 0:35
  also be entertaining for today.
• 0:36
  I'm following up on a couple of topics
• 0:38
  that I've been, you know, beaten up upon
• 0:43
  truthfully in the last couple of weeks.
• 0:48
  We talked about last Friday on Civic Outlaws,
• 0:52
  some of the efforts that we've been taking
• 0:57
  our push against our push back, I should
• 1:02
  say, against the alcohol tobacco control, folks, and
• 1:09
  their overreach.
• 1:12
  And we talked a little bit, I shared
• 1:14
  with you one of my articles that I
• 1:16
  wrote last Friday, if you want to find
• 1:18
  those, we you know, you can find them
• 1:23
  all of them out either on my LinkedIn
• 1:26
  page, Samuel Trapp and just do a quick
• 1:30
  search, you'll find me modern law ecosystem and
• 1:33
  civic outlaws.
• 1:36
  And all those articles will be out there.
• 1:39
  I have another one that I'm publishing this
• 1:40
  week that I'm going to share most of
• 1:42
  it with you today.
• 1:43
  Because I think it's important.
• 1:46
  There, I shared with you that they're trying
• 1:49
  to pass a bill that gives a liquor
• 1:53
  license investigator, police authority to arrest at any
• 2:00
  time and how that folds up against the
• 2:03
  Fourth Amendment, in my view.
• 2:05
  And this has been my position for a
• 2:07
  long time.
• 2:08
  And, you know, I've been right before and
• 2:11
  the judicial branch has struck me down, I'm
• 2:15
  still right.
• 2:16
  And I wanted to share a little bit
• 2:18
  about that too, because I'm going to repeat
• 2:20
  that effort this week or very soon, as
• 2:23
  well, about the Missouri bar and the BS
• 2:27
  that they have going on.
• 2:29
  They are not your friends, lawyers, they're not,
• 2:31
  their web page looks better than it used
• 2:33
  to.
• 2:34
  And they're, you know, trying to trying to
• 2:36
  I don't know what, show that they're, you
• 2:40
  know, that they might take the interest of
• 2:43
  lawyers almost as importantly, as the protecting the
• 2:48
  public they got to protect the public from
• 2:50
  evildoers like me.
• 2:53
  And it's BS, the way they do it
• 2:56
  without any authority grant.
• 2:58
  So some of the things that I've actually
• 3:00
  been talking about on the ATC side are
• 3:04
  the exact same issues in the bar.
• 3:09
  They just they don't have the authority.
• 3:11
  It wasn't given to them, not by the
• 3:13
  legislature, not by the Supreme Court by nobody.
• 3:16
  They do not have the authority.
• 3:18
  And yet, they regulate.
• 3:21
  And nobody says anything.
• 3:23
  Hell, they're so they're so secure that they
• 3:25
  don't even answer sunshine requests.
• 3:27
  And I didn't push it last summer.
• 3:29
  I wasn't ready.
• 3:30
  But I wrote the following.
• 3:35
  Let's see, I got the date June 30
• 3:38
  of 2025 is when I sent this out.
• 3:41
  And remember, I sent the same thing to
• 3:43
  the governor's office.
• 3:44
  And the same thing to the Supreme Court
• 3:49
  itself.
• 3:50
  The Supreme Court answered.
• 3:52
  The governor answered, but the Missouri bar blanked
• 3:57
  me nothing and not even a we're not
• 4:00
  gonna answer just nothing.
• 4:02
  So that effort is going to go again
• 4:04
  this week, but we're going to certified mail
• 4:07
  it.
• 4:08
  We're going to ask for some things that
• 4:15
  that are truly wrong.
• 4:18
  And we're gonna dig.
• 4:19
  Why?
• 4:19
  Because I like to dig and I'm an
• 4:21
  outlaw.
• 4:22
  And if you want to be become a
• 4:25
  civic warrior, go out to civic outlaws and
• 4:28
  join the fight.
• 4:30
  You know, these are expensive fights.
• 4:33
  These are not cheap.
• 4:35
  And I anticipate government overreach continuing long into
• 4:41
  the future.
• 4:42
  It's just we have a government class that
• 4:46
  believes they run the planet.
• 4:47
  And apparently they do.
• 4:49
  Because now you can strike Iran if you
• 4:52
  feel like to, you know, we're not Rubio
• 4:55
  is now saying that the strikes on Iran
• 4:57
  were preemptive because we don't want Iran blowing
• 5:00
  up once again, it's evil versus good.
• 5:03
  That's what they're trying to get you to
• 5:04
  believe.
• 5:05
  Don't believe it.
• 5:06
  Because this is not good and evil.
• 5:08
  That's it was the evil is actually the
• 5:10
  government and our government, our overreach.
• 5:15
  Okay.
• 5:16
  Because no, we don't want to go to
• 5:18
  war with Iran, do we?
• 5:20
  I mean, it's anybody out there even though
• 5:22
  the issues regarding this, they're going to sell
• 5:25
  you the crap that you Oh, gee, Iran's
• 5:27
  the bad guy.
• 5:28
  The ayatollahs evil man on the planet.
• 5:30
  Well, not according to 97 million Iranians.
• 5:38
  And they got stockpiles I'm telling you, they
• 5:40
  got big stockpiles of drones and, and missiles,
• 5:43
  they can hold out probably longer than we
• 5:46
  can.
• 5:46
  Ours are depleted, all sent into Ukraine.
• 5:49
  So we have stepped into another forever war
• 5:53
  that used to was going to be a
• 5:55
  couple of days surgical strike, we find out
• 5:58
  now we're following who, as usual, we're following
• 6:01
  Israel, right.
• 6:02
  And so I take this and this is
• 6:05
  a much smaller issue, but it's the same
• 6:07
  damn concept.
• 6:09
  It's people making decisions for you that they
• 6:11
  really shouldn't be making.
• 6:13
  It's people taking power that they really haven't
• 6:16
  been given.
• 6:17
  And that it's just, that's why civic outlaws
• 6:21
  exists.
• 6:22
  And so we sent out some sunshine requests
• 6:25
  yesterday, which I hope to also be able
• 6:27
  to share with you, but I might not
• 6:29
  get to those until Friday.
• 6:30
  But I'm gonna share you because share with
• 6:33
  you because we are going to do the
• 6:34
  Missouri bar part.
• 6:36
  And I've created an entity with a partner,
• 6:39
  we have partners, and that entity is called
• 6:43
  modern law ecosystem, you can find it at
• 6:45
  modern law ecosystem.com.
• 6:48
  And it's a sort of a companion with
• 6:52
  our 501 c three charity, which is civic
• 6:56
  outlaws.
• 6:57
  And we're having a fundraiser for civic outlaws
• 7:00
  details will follow.
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  Because I, I'm only on the periphery of
• 7:05
  that there are several of us in civic
• 7:07
  outlaws, if you'd like to, we're looking for
• 7:10
  for donors, of course, we're looking for board
• 7:12
  members, of course, and if you have, you
• 7:18
  want to open the window, raise the blinds,
• 7:22
  as it were, on these overreach efforts, I
• 7:26
  think you should join us.
• 7:28
  And I'd love to speak with you and
• 7:31
  get you involved.
• 7:34
  We're, we're already so busy.
• 7:39
  We're like, you know, it may be calm
• 7:42
  on the surface, but underneath, we're like a
• 7:44
  duck on the water and our legs are
• 7:46
  paddling like crazy, right?
• 7:49
  If you remember that metaphor, I stole from
• 7:52
  somebody or metaphoric example, I suppose it would
• 7:54
  be.
• 7:55
  But I shared the following letter on June
• 7:57
  the 30th of 2025.
• 7:59
  And I did it to the Supreme Court
• 8:02
  in one version to the of Missouri to
• 8:06
  the governor's office in another version, and then
• 8:12
  to the Missouri bar.
• 8:13
  Okay.
• 8:14
  And the letter went like this.
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  I'm writing on behalf of international flavor I
• 8:19
  wrote on behalf of my my radio program,
• 8:23
  a nightly investigative broadcast on damn radio in
• 8:26
  Lake Ozark, Missouri.
• 8:28
  We've launched a public facing sunshine law campaign
• 8:32
  demanding records from the Missouri bar, Missouri Supreme
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  Court and the governor's office related to the
• 8:39
  highly secretive Judicial Selection Committee, the fee dispute
• 8:44
  resolution program and the client security fund.
• 8:48
  These entities collectively control who becomes a judge
• 8:53
  who gets sanctioned and who gets silenced all
• 8:58
  behind closed doors.
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  We believe these committees operate with no meaningful
• 9:05
  transparency, no public oversight and indirect conflict with
• 9:11
  the public's right to know.
• 9:12
  We've issued formal sunshine law requests and are
• 9:16
  preparing litigation if they refuse to comply.
• 9:19
  This Thursday we will air 90 minute opening
• 9:22
  campaign exposing on on international flavor, exposing the
• 9:27
  structure process and personalities behind Missouri's self protecting
• 9:32
  judicial pipeline.
• 9:35
  We're seeking investigative collaborators, legal experts, journalists,
• 9:41
  whistleblowers and any individual impacted by these opaque
• 9:45
  bar run systems.
• 9:46
  Please see the attached press release and that
• 9:50
  was sent to them and we attached the
• 9:54
  following Missouri Bar Association subject sunshine request committee
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  membership and selection records records and it reads
• 10:08
  as follows subject sunshine request committee membership and
• 10:16
  selections.
• 10:18
  This request is submitted in preparation for public
• 10:21
  expose and ongoing investigative reporting campaign by international
• 10:26
  flavor legal and political broadcast at the time
• 10:29
  it was aired nightly and so I talked
• 10:31
  about the nightly program.
• 10:32
  These records will be used in public facing
• 10:35
  reports and potential publication related to transparency and
• 10:39
  committee appointments within the Missouri legal system.
• 10:42
  Responses may be read on air or published.
• 10:45
  Please direct all responses to info at international
• 10:49
  flavor dot com and live at damn radio
• 10:53
  dot com.
• 10:54
  We know the process is stacked and secretive
• 10:56
  and we want to know how members of
• 10:59
  these various committees are selected.
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  Not pie in the sky statements about how
• 11:03
  nonpartisan the process is designed to be but
• 11:07
  the reality of how it works.
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  For example we allege that the governor is
• 11:11
  actually the only potential party in the entire
• 11:15
  judicial selection process.
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  This is the nonpartisan judicial selection with any
• 11:21
  ties to the public having been elected.
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  But that is where any public input into
• 11:28
  judicial selection ends.
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  There is none.
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  The rest is completely lopsided in favor of
• 11:36
  shadowy committees appointed by the Missouri bar.
• 11:39
  We further believe that the other programs have
• 11:42
  been used to control certain members of the
• 11:44
  bar or even destroy professional lives like mine
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  using similar shadowy processes.
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  Seven person committees controlled by certain select members
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  of the bar.
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  As result we are requesting these records not
• 12:00
  just to see what exists but to confirm
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  what does not.
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  We anticipate that many of the records being
• 12:07
  sought such as competing candidate lists internal mem
• 12:11
  memos on how members of these committees are
• 12:15
  chosen candidate scoring records etc.
• 12:18
  may not have been preserved at all because
• 12:21
  secrecy is the foundation of how these committees
• 12:25
  operate.
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  If you deny or ignore the request you
• 12:29
  are simply proving the point of the investigation.
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  The public deserves transparency and silence will be
• 12:37
  treated as an admission.
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  That's what I do.
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  They haven't answered.
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  It's June the governor answered.
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  The state Supreme Court answered.
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  So pursuant to Missouri sunshine law R.S
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  .M.O. Chapter 610 and consistent with public
• 12:55
  transparency principles laid out in the Freedom of
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  Information Act 5 U.S.C. 5 5
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  2.
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  I formally request the following public records a
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  complete list of all individuals who have served
• 13:09
  on the Missouri bars fee dispute resolution committee
• 13:12
  client security fund committee and any judicial appointment
• 13:16
  commission committees or panels influenced or advised by
• 13:21
  the bar from the year 2000 to the
• 13:23
  present.
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  For each individual provide the committee members full
• 13:28
  data service the appointing authority who appointed him
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  e.g. bar president the board internal committee
• 13:35
  that appointed such members any advertising of any
• 13:39
  such committee vacancy any records of application solicitation
• 13:44
  of candidates endorsement or internal advocacy regarding any
• 13:48
  such committee vacancy number three a list of
• 13:52
  all candidates considered for each committee vacancy including
• 13:56
  internal applicants or nominees and any records of
• 13:59
  selection recommendation or rejection including e-mails meeting
• 14:03
  minutes or memoranda all policies of we also
• 14:07
  requested all policies or written procedures governing how
• 14:11
  candidates are selected evaluated or appointed to these
• 14:16
  committees if no such records exist please confirm
• 14:20
  this in writing if any part of this
• 14:22
  request is denied cite each specific statutory exemption
• 14:26
  under R.S.M.O. 610 and provide
• 14:29
  an index of withheld documents all records are
• 14:33
  requested in electronic format please confirm receipt and
• 14:36
  provide an estimate production timeline zero response they
• 14:44
  did not answer nothing okay they did nothing
• 14:49
  and so new requests will be going out
• 14:52
  this week from civic outlaws the same thing
• 14:54
  we'll copy the six-month ones i already
• 14:57
  have the lawsuit drafted i've just been waiting
• 14:59
  to hold it and trying to figure out
• 15:01
  my strategy but i already know what my
• 15:05
  strategy is we're going to have to sue
• 15:07
  these a-holes and they they can then
• 15:11
  put up or shut up they can answer
• 15:13
  whatever they can take one of their secretive
• 15:18
  appointment faces and you know the real power
• 15:25
  that is held within the bar by a
• 15:30
  select few and figure out how they're going
• 15:35
  to respond and i'm not against that i
• 15:37
  just want it to be open i just
• 15:39
  want to be able to i don't know
• 15:44
  figure out something they're secretive they probably claim
• 15:48
  they're not a government entity but they are
• 15:51
  government facing they are regulatory they have uh
• 15:55
  they're a quasi agency of the of the
• 15:59
  uh state of missouri of the missouri supreme
• 16:01
  court but they have no oversight by the
• 16:03
  missouri supreme court they're their own independent group
• 16:09
  in fact it's the reverse of the supreme
• 16:12
  court they select the members who will be
• 16:17
  recommended to the governor to say these three
• 16:21
  candidates you have to pick from one of
• 16:24
  them so the governor doesn't even get to
• 16:26
  appoint his own people and they call this
• 16:28
  non-partisan and they did this because uh
• 16:32
  back in the 30s when they discovered all
• 16:35
  this they were worried that uh corruption was
• 16:39
  taking hold in kansas city and in st
• 16:42
  louis and large mafioso types you know groups
• 16:48
  were controlling the whole state from either kansas
• 16:52
  city or from st louis because the selection
• 16:56
  all came from there so what they did
• 16:58
  instead is they created this non-partisan group
• 17:02
  of people and it's really the same thing
• 17:05
  as that they now control the whole system
• 17:09
  instead of st louis or now jefferson city's
• 17:12
  corrupt group of a-holes you know that
• 17:15
  get to select all of this there's some
• 17:17
  very powerful families in jeff city but they
• 17:20
  rule everything from behind the scenes right that's
• 17:23
  what they do and they knew about it
• 17:26
  in florida when i was trying to get
• 17:27
  my broker's license down there i had to
• 17:30
  go and get them in the funny part
• 17:31
  is and this is something i have been
• 17:33
  against for a long time is that you
• 17:36
  can't just go to another state and perhaps
• 17:39
  get a license so if some guy decides
• 17:41
  to attack you as a lawyer anyway if
• 17:43
  some guy decides to destroy you in missouri
• 17:47
  and he does because that's exactly how it
• 17:50
  went down he even told me he was
• 17:52
  going to do it he said he was
• 17:54
  i'm going to destroy you that's not as
• 17:56
  he what he said was i'm going to
• 17:58
  see that you never practice law in the
• 17:59
  state of missouri again well it also means
• 18:02
  you never practice law anywhere else because in
• 18:05
  virtually every state there's a few uh different
• 18:09
  ones and but in virtually every state you
• 18:12
  cannot apply for licensure even until you clear
• 18:16
  up the one state so one guy who
• 18:19
  who hates you in missouri can screw you
• 18:22
  for life in any other place and so
• 18:25
  i i advocate and always have i have
• 18:28
  advocated a uh because everybody knows it all
• 18:31
  the lawyers know it too if you want
• 18:33
  to go somewhere else you got a kissy
• 18:35
  ass of the people here just so you
• 18:37
  can uh be accepted somewhere else and if
• 18:40
  you don't they're going to send reams of
• 18:42
  paper about what an evil do you are
• 18:44
  and you don't get a you don't get
• 18:46
  a fair shot and you never do and
• 18:49
  it's nonsense because i haven't been given a
• 18:51
  fair shot i'm not saying there wasn't uh
• 18:54
  things that i needed to be disciplined for
• 18:56
  but i want the records of how these
• 18:58
  committees where they get their power and they
• 19:02
  won't share it and of course they won't
• 19:04
  share it they have to maintain their power
• 19:06
  the light will cause the cockroaches to scurry
• 19:11
  just like it is done in the alcohol
• 19:13
  and tobacco control fight that we've been getting
• 19:16
  in the middle of and so as i
• 19:19
  told you last friday on civic outlaws i
• 19:21
  have another another article that i wrote after
• 19:27
  the events went like this we wrote article
• 19:31
  number three which is the article i shared
• 19:33
  with you on civic outlaws on friday and
• 19:37
  it went longer than i anticipated and that
• 19:40
  article uh was sent specifically to each member
• 19:48
  of the committee for public safety i think
• 19:54
  it's called it could be but but whatever
• 19:56
  it is it's a law enforcement category okay
• 19:58
  and we sent it out to them and
• 20:01
  then made a few well-pointed calls to
• 20:05
  uh reps reps in the area i don't
• 20:08
  want to and it's not to rat anybody
• 20:10
  out but we want the light open but
• 20:12
  you know i also want to keep who
• 20:15
  we're working with a little bit quiet because
• 20:18
  we are working with people and people are
• 20:20
  aware of of of these uh what do
• 20:23
  you call it uh articles that i am
• 20:26
  sharing and each one of them is correct
• 20:28
  and if anybody wishes to uh school me
• 20:31
  on why they are not i'm perfectly happy
• 20:33
  to uh accept your your call at 573
• 20:38
  -746-8020 well after the article the fourth
• 20:43
  one went out well no no that's not
• 20:45
  true after the third one went out uh
• 20:49
  i was sitting in the office and the
• 20:51
  phone rang and uh picked it up and
• 20:54
  it was a representative uh by the name
• 20:57
  of uh let's see if i can remember
• 21:00
  benny cook benny cook is the rep and
• 21:04
  he called the office we got several calls
• 21:07
  from several different uh reps into the office
• 21:10
  asking to speak asking for more details blah
• 21:13
  blah blah and because we sent it out
• 21:14
  to every single one of them and it's
• 21:18
  it's really i mean the the articles are
• 21:21
  actually are very informative in and i'm kind
• 21:24
  of you know breaking my arm patting myself
• 21:26
  on the back but they're correct you know
• 21:29
  these articles are correct the the the analysis
• 21:32
  in them is correct what the atc is
• 21:35
  doing is correct my rant for five minutes
• 21:38
  on the missouri bar 10 on the missouri
• 21:40
  bar just now is correct these are these
• 21:44
  are true issues these aren't samuel traps uh
• 21:49
  spilt milk you know uh nonsense because i
• 21:53
  was disciplined in missouri i don't mind the
• 21:56
  discipline i support the discipline i think it
• 22:00
  was extreme but i support it i think
• 22:03
  that every lawyer in the state well not
• 22:06
  every lawyer government lawyers are untouchable they don't
• 22:09
  even subject to any rules they got nothing
• 22:13
  and nobody can touch them you can't go
• 22:16
  into the government and try to get a
• 22:18
  lawyer for something you know good luck and
• 22:21
  but the solo practitioner or the small firm
• 22:25
  guy is disproportionately targeted because large firms they're
• 22:30
  they're golden too you know they have schools
• 22:32
  of accountants and they've got all the things
• 22:34
  that a smaller law firm doesn't have to
• 22:37
  worry about and if somebody chooses to target
• 22:40
  you they will like sam phillips from the
• 22:43
  office of chief disciplinary counsel did to me
• 22:47
  he targeted me specifically he said i'm gonna
• 22:51
  take you down it was because in my
• 22:53
  opinion i wouldn't help him go after greg
• 22:57
  williams a lawyer at the lake and i
• 22:59
  and i told him where he could put
• 23:00
  it and he did not like that and
• 23:04
  so he chose to make an example of
• 23:07
  me kiss the ass of the missouri bar
• 23:09
  or will sam trap you you know or
• 23:12
  will sam trap you watch out you know
• 23:14
  so that's exactly what they do and that's
• 23:16
  what the atc does that's what bureaucratic overreach
• 23:19
  does and so these articles when we sent
• 23:21
  it out we got a call from a
• 23:24
  guy named um benny cook who's up at
• 23:27
  the up at the capitol he's a state
• 23:29
  rep and i forget which district he's down
• 23:30
  south somewhere texas county maybe i don't remember
• 23:34
  but but he's down there he's down there
• 23:37
  in uh southern missouri and he happens to
• 23:41
  be law enforcement i looked him up a
• 23:43
  little bit afterward and it was kind of
• 23:44
  a weird call because it wasn't me that
• 23:47
  sent the sent my article to everyone but
• 23:50
  i wrote the article and we have nothing
• 23:52
  to hide so he called asking for the
• 23:54
  guy who sent him the letter and said
• 23:56
  you know i want to talk to him
• 23:57
  uh and i said well um he's not
• 24:01
  here right now he had a uh somewhere
• 24:03
  to go and uh but i'm the guy
• 24:07
  who wrote the letter i'd be happy to
• 24:09
  i wrote the article i would be happy
• 24:11
  to talk to you and he uh he
• 24:15
  clearly didn't want to talk to me let's
• 24:18
  put it that way he was not interested
• 24:20
  in talking to me and it was really
• 24:22
  kind of odd uh if you're calling about
• 24:25
  the article and he asked a question said
• 24:27
  something like um and i'm you know paraphrasing
• 24:31
  of course i did i don't record them
• 24:32
  or nothing but uh he um when he
• 24:35
  called up he said well is this about
• 24:38
  any current legislation on the floor is this
• 24:42
  about anything you know that's going on and
• 24:46
  he said uh i said i said calvin
• 24:49
  will i want well now i've ratted him
• 24:51
  out but uh he's another member of our
• 24:53
  uh of our board here at civic outlaws
• 24:55
  and i said he's that's who sent these
• 24:58
  letters all out and he said i said
• 25:01
  well what should i tell uh tell him
• 25:03
  this is about and he said well uh
• 25:06
  i was just wondering if the article was
• 25:09
  in reference to any particular effort on the
• 25:12
  floor or anything like that and uh he
• 25:15
  said but i said well i'd be happy
• 25:17
  to talk to you about that stuff and
• 25:19
  um you know and i wrote the letter
• 25:21
  so you know he goes no no no
• 25:23
  i'll wait it was really kind of a
• 25:25
  a weird deal so i took his number
• 25:29
  um took a message and let him go
• 25:32
  well immediately i started looking we started looking
• 25:37
  if there was a bill out on the
• 25:38
  floor of the house and come to find
• 25:40
  out there is and it's a bill sponsored
• 25:43
  by benny cook and the the articles out
• 25:47
  there and you know um i i asked
• 25:50
  around about him but they said he's a
• 25:51
  great guy you know he he's good and
• 25:54
  you know and and he's he's a decent
• 25:56
  guy i'm i'm assuming that's the case i
• 25:58
  got nothing against a man you know i
• 26:00
  i don't even know him but uh apparently
• 26:02
  he's what he's well thought of and well
• 26:04
  respected in the uh in the uh house
• 26:08
  of representatives which is great you know i'm
• 26:09
  for that but he had a bill out
• 26:11
  there and this bill is uh a bill
• 26:15
  uh let's see i got the number here
• 26:18
  because i immediately wrote an article on this
• 26:20
  bill and shared it like a day later
• 26:23
  i was on a tear after reading this
• 26:25
  bill because of what it did and it's
• 26:28
  a house bill 2378 and so i wrote
• 26:33
  an article i wrote an article and i'm
• 26:37
  going to share that article with you but
• 26:39
  first i am going to go take care
• 26:42
  of some coffee business and give a little
• 26:45
  bit of a break but in after this
• 26:47
  wonderful song plays and this song is only
• 26:50
  um it's not very long at all three
• 26:54
  minutes and 57 seconds i'm going to share
• 26:57
  it with you but i really like this
• 26:59
  type of music and i like having this
• 27:02
  on the background whilst i'm at work and
• 27:05
  this one is called magna canta and the
• 27:08
  song is called rasha and i like this
• 27:12
  type of music and i hope that you
• 27:14
  do too so
• 28:44
  so all
• 31:10
  righty then that was magna canta and the
• 31:13
  song is rasha and i've always liked that
• 31:16
  sort of music there's another one that i
• 31:19
  want to find from mongolian throat music but
• 31:21
  i got to find the specific stuff you
• 31:23
  got to be selective when you get that
• 31:25
  and but i like mongolian throat music so
• 31:27
  i had to get some readers because i
• 31:29
  can't uh read without them and i turned
• 31:31
  on the the lights in here because it
• 31:33
  was dark and so it's even worse i
• 31:34
  have horrible eyesight and uh well i don't
• 31:37
  have horrible eyesight i have decent eyesight but
• 31:39
  i got floaters in my eyes it's nonsense
• 31:42
  uh you know sometimes you think you see
• 31:44
  a spider somewhere but it's not your eyeballs
• 31:46
  being uh all jacked up like mine so
• 31:49
  at any rate before our beautiful music break
• 31:52
  uh we were speaking about or i was
• 31:54
  speaking about uh benny cook the phone call
• 31:58
  he made and the resulting afterwards of that
• 32:02
  what i did and so here's what i
• 32:04
  did i went and i checked the legislative
• 32:07
  tracking and went and looked through it and
• 32:10
  found what do you know i found a
• 32:12
  bill being sponsored by benny cook and i
• 32:15
  saw it and it was uh basically what
• 32:19
  the and i didn't pull a copy of
• 32:20
  it i meant to but i didn't have
• 32:21
  time in my little break to go and
• 32:23
  print a copy because i thought it would
• 32:24
  be nice to have a copy but it's
• 32:26
  house bill house bill 2378 and i'm going
• 32:31
  to share with you an article on house
• 32:33
  bill 2378 that i wrote immediately and i
• 32:37
  i would i would have sat down a
• 32:38
  couple hours later came up with his article
• 32:40
  and uh it's it's a thought process that
• 32:44
  i had that i put in to motion
• 32:48
  and i i tell you what i'm i'm
• 32:51
  against government creep at all levels and whether
• 32:54
  it's done by a uh an agency or
• 32:57
  a bureaucrat and remember i think bureaucrat's a
• 33:01
  bad word administrator is one thing bureaucrat no
• 33:04
  quite another and uh you know you can
• 33:07
  honor the people who do their jobs and
• 33:09
  i do but the people that love the
• 33:12
  overreach love the part that they're building more
• 33:14
  power is uh you know is irritating to
• 33:22
  me i don't like it and i i
• 33:24
  think those people should be exposed and uh
• 33:28
  i i just don't like it um but
• 33:31
  i saw uh while while i was on
• 33:32
  the break too well no i'm not going
• 33:34
  to change topics because that'll make me go
• 33:36
  somewhere else and i'm not going to but
• 33:38
  the damn tvs are on and i saw
• 33:40
  something that uh that uh reminded me of
• 33:43
  another topic i want to take so what
• 33:44
  i'm going to share with you is an
• 33:46
  article that i wrote last week and i
• 33:48
  shared with the article three so on friday
• 33:50
  i said i was going to try to
• 33:51
  get to both of them but they're too
• 33:53
  long uh the articles are too long and
• 33:55
  and they're hard to paraphrase but i'm going
• 33:57
  to try to because i really don't like
• 33:59
  the reading part um i don't think it's
• 34:01
  as smooth i don't think it's as right
• 34:03
  i can't see very well anyway and trying
• 34:05
  to read things on the air is a
• 34:07
  frustration of mine but i'm going to share
• 34:09
  with you an article that i wrote it's
• 34:11
  called hb 2378 quiet legislative creep the upgrade
• 34:17
  of alcohol tobacco control into a police force
• 34:22
  okay what have i been talking about in
• 34:24
  the last three articles where these uh agents
• 34:30
  licensing agents all they are are licensing agents
• 34:35
  and i don't mean all they it's not
• 34:36
  a bad thing you know it's now they're
• 34:39
  all turning into bureaucrats and seizing power they
• 34:41
  haven't been given so i believe there's something
• 34:44
  behind the scenes to increase that power so
• 34:48
  that people like me shut up but i
• 34:50
  don't think that uh licensing agents should become
• 34:55
  policemen it should be have arrest authority because
• 34:59
  it takes you out of the administrative licensing
• 35:02
  process and into law enforcement where they all
• 35:05
  wish they were anyway and we talked about
• 35:09
  them identifying themselves as a police department nonsense
• 35:13
  and they don't have the authority to do
• 35:16
  that but they have been for quite a
• 35:18
  few years now they're denying us any reasonable
• 35:22
  request at sunshine openness and i sent some
• 35:27
  in my own name yesterday which i'll share
• 35:30
  with you also but uh if i can
• 35:33
  and i think i can on my phone
• 35:35
  but i better get trucking or i'll never
• 35:37
  get through this article let's see so let's
• 35:41
  talk about what happened in in house bill
• 35:45
  2378 and basically what it says it was
• 35:48
  one line they want to add to 311
• 35:51
  .630 and 311.630 is the authority of
• 35:55
  an investigator and it tells what they can
• 35:57
  do and what they you know things that
• 35:59
  they have the right to do and they
• 36:00
  can arrest for violations of 311 or 407
• 36:06
  the specific statutes that give them a power
• 36:13
  under wrongdoing they can serve subpoenas and stuff
• 36:16
  but it's very very limited in uh 311
• 36:21
  .630 and so uh benny cook wanted to
• 36:26
  expand that and i'm interested in how that
• 36:29
  came out so i wrote sunshine requests to
• 36:32
  his office yesterday and to the atc yesterday
• 36:36
  asking for any communication between the two because
• 36:40
  i'm interested and i think it should be
• 36:43
  uh you know turn on the lights and
• 36:45
  if there are no uh cockroaches they won't
• 36:47
  scurry will they if you turn on the
• 36:50
  lights and everything is on the up and
• 36:51
  up you got nothing to worry about and
• 36:53
  so life is good right and sam's just
• 36:56
  asking a question that needs to be asked
• 36:58
  i'm not you know i don't want to
• 37:00
  take anybody down you know i'm not trying
• 37:02
  to do that i'm trying to make government
• 37:04
  better that's what i'm trying to do and
• 37:06
  i'm trying to make people or get people
• 37:08
  to understand that as an american i have
• 37:11
  the right to do so and that i
• 37:13
  i just want answers and everybody wants answers
• 37:17
  but there are specific ways you have to
• 37:19
  go get these answers and i'm following those
• 37:22
  rules of course the missouri bar they just
• 37:25
  don't answer and they're waiting for me to
• 37:27
  sue them and and i will but i'm
• 37:29
  going to try that avenue one more time
• 37:31
  before i do sue and uh you know
• 37:33
  hopefully with a little more vocal you know
• 37:36
  on on on this program and everywhere else
• 37:38
  because what i'm doing is correct and civic
• 37:40
  outlaws exists to attack these type of things
• 37:44
  to to attack the bureaucrat to attack laws
• 37:47
  that come up and i want information so
• 37:50
  that i can find out you know as
• 37:52
  a as a public prosecutor of whatever whether
• 37:55
  or not it's uh uh you know correct
• 38:00
  or if it's full of cockroaches we're gonna
• 38:03
  find out right so here's the article house
• 38:08
  bill 2378 quiet legislative creep the upgrade of
• 38:11
  alcohol tobacco control and police department article three
• 38:13
  i laid out a problem missouri has been
• 38:16
  pretending it doesn't have alcohol and tobacco control
• 38:19
  is supposed to be a licensing regulator yet
• 38:21
  it has steadily adopted the posture and practice
• 38:24
  of a police unit badges undercover tactics secret
• 38:28
  investigations and police style reporting while still enjoying
• 38:32
  the political cover of we're just administrators now
• 38:36
  house bill 2378 turns that problem from cultural
• 38:41
  drift into a legislative choice if an agency
• 38:44
  already talks and walks like a police unit
• 38:47
  inside a licensing framework the next move is
• 38:50
  predictable expand authority statutory authority in a way
• 38:55
  that sounds reasonable especially if you bury it
• 38:58
  inside some kind of emergency language that's how
• 39:01
  a licensing bureau becomes a police force in
• 39:04
  practice one amendment at a time until one
• 39:07
  day everybody shrugs and says well we've always
• 39:10
  done it that way this article is pretty
• 39:13
  blunt on purpose it is not a personal
• 39:16
  attack but it's a demand for accountability if
• 39:18
  someone wants to upgrade a regulator into a
• 39:21
  broad police actor they should be able to
• 39:23
  defend that choice in the daylight with facts
• 39:26
  limits and oversight not with vague language and
• 39:29
  a wink the history box how missouri got
• 39:33
  post-licensed and regulator with guns 1934 missouri
• 39:39
  established the post-prohibition era liquor control system
• 39:43
  in 1934 is the first version i suppose
• 39:48
  you'd call it of alcohol tobacco control 1974
• 39:52
  liquor control was reorganized under and into the
• 39:57
  department of public safety so they're subject to
• 40:00
  the department of public safety as 74 50
• 40:03
  years 52 years whatever in 1988 missouri established
• 40:10
  peace officer standards and training post commission this
• 40:13
  is how officers get trained and in 1995
• 40:18
  missouri moved liquor control agents into the post
• 40:22
  world making post certification for agents at the
• 40:28
  discretion of the head of atc which i
• 40:32
  i think this is i think that is
• 40:35
  a horrible mistake right there because you've taken
• 40:38
  them out of administration even there and turn
• 40:41
  them arguably into law enforcement for and requiring
• 40:45
  post certification these are police officers by training
• 40:48
  and so they want to be police officers
• 40:51
  but they're limited in an administrative arm of
• 40:54
  the government which is where they are so
• 40:56
  in the early 2000s the division of liquor
• 41:00
  control whatever it was called became alcohol and
• 41:03
  tobacco control and the statutory framework in chapter
• 41:07
  311 tied peace officer atc status to holding
• 41:11
  a valid peace officer license under missouri's chapter
• 41:14
  590 which is the post certification thing with
• 41:17
  the supervisor of atc selecting or designating which
• 41:23
  employees are to be police officers or peace
• 41:27
  officers or require post certification now they have
• 41:32
  basically said all of them need to be
• 41:36
  they've put them but that's not what the
• 41:37
  statute reads the statute says select or or
• 41:41
  certain or discretionary according to the discretion of
• 41:44
  the atc the discretion is of course we
• 41:47
  want all of them to be post certified
• 41:48
  and when they get there they all want
• 41:50
  to be police officers they don't want to
• 41:52
  be licensing agents they want to be undercover
• 41:54
  cops they want to wear their swat stuff
• 41:56
  you know this is what they really want
• 41:57
  to do and so we turn them into
• 41:59
  a police department anyway the article continues this
• 42:02
  matters because it proves one simple point post
• 42:06
  licensed regulatory agent isn't some unavoidable relic from
• 42:11
  the 30s which kind of i thought it
• 42:13
  was when i started research and it's like
• 42:14
  well you know back then there's mafia there's
• 42:17
  all this stuff that you're changing in missouri
• 42:19
  in kansas city in st louis you're changing
• 42:21
  judicial structure so that uh you know the
• 42:25
  the mafia doesn't run everything you know from
• 42:28
  one city or the other um and that's
• 42:30
  how the atc ended up with these weapons
• 42:32
  stuff but that's not true the weapons just
• 42:34
  keeps growing over time right they all carry
• 42:36
  weapons why is a licensing regulator carrying a
• 42:39
  weapon i mean that's not threatening is it
• 42:43
  no no no anyway modern policy choices should
• 42:46
  come with modern oversight what the law says
• 42:49
  today and why the police posture isn't imaginary
• 42:53
  missouri's current statute declares the atc supervisor and
• 42:57
  whatever employees the supervisor selects as peace officers
• 43:00
  with the full power and authority to make
• 43:02
  arrests and search and seizures only arrest search
• 43:07
  and seizures only for violation of missouri liquor
• 43:10
  laws chapter 311 and certain tobacco laws section
• 43:15
  40 or chapter 407 924 to 934 the
• 43:20
  statute also requires those designated officers to hold
• 43:24
  a valid peace officer license letter 590 that
• 43:27
  so the the that only matters that designates
• 43:31
  the lane of what they are saying it's
• 43:33
  the legislator saying you are not general police
• 43:36
  you are not specialized enforcement actors tied to
• 43:40
  a specific law enforcement mission the same statute
• 43:43
  requires credentials and a special badge for those
• 43:46
  peace officers and makes their name a matter
• 43:48
  of public record that is not the language
• 43:51
  of a mere licensing clerk it's the language
• 43:53
  of an armed credentialed enforcement unit so when
• 43:57
  people say why are they acting like police
• 44:00
  the answer is because the statute already built
• 44:03
  police posture into the licensing agency the question
• 44:07
  is whether missouri should expand that posture into
• 44:09
  a broader police authority frankly i think it
• 44:12
  should be taken away and they ought to
• 44:13
  be doing only licensing issues but we'll continue
• 44:16
  article has several pages and i want to
• 44:19
  make sure to get through them all house
• 44:20
  bill 2378 adds a new trigger that blows
• 44:23
  a hole in the lane line it authorizes
• 44:25
  this is what benny about almost said benny
• 44:29
  hill benny cook is trying to do it
• 44:31
  authorizes atc officers to make arrests and perform
• 44:35
  search and seizure when exigent circumstances exist presenting
• 44:41
  an immediate threat of bodily harm the bill
• 44:44
  adds similar authority for state fire marshals why
• 44:49
  are fire marshals going to be police officers
• 44:51
  and armed and arresting people now i'm much
• 44:55
  more for that if you're inspecting an arson
• 44:57
  or something like that and you find something
• 44:59
  out and i'm i'm still against it i
• 45:02
  don't like it i think if you got
• 45:03
  a police issue call in a police department
• 45:05
  the fire marshal doesn't have any regulation of
• 45:08
  police stuff either just like atc does not
• 45:11
  and they're an administrative and it's an important
• 45:13
  distinction which we're going to get to and
• 45:15
  explain to you so even the public summaries
• 45:19
  of the bill describe these atc employees already
• 45:22
  as police officers that wording alone should make
• 45:26
  the lawmakers pause before voting for this bill
• 45:30
  unless you are comfortable with an agency becoming
• 45:33
  a police unit by statute instead of only
• 45:36
  in practice like it was before they just
• 45:39
  they've taken all these authorities and now through
• 45:42
  a backdoor they're trying to actually cover it
• 45:44
  and put it into a legislative document so
• 45:47
  the bill will be sold as common sense
• 45:50
  of course a post-certified officer should be
• 45:53
  able to act as an officer in an
• 45:55
  emergency fine emergencies exist the question is not
• 46:00
  whether someone can act the question is who
• 46:03
  acts under what limits with what oversight and
• 46:07
  with what remedies when that power is abused
• 46:10
  that isn't put there all it says is
• 46:12
  exigent circumstances that's not a measuring stick it's
• 46:16
  a permission slip it's elastic it expands when
• 46:20
  pressure is applied and once it's in the
• 46:23
  statute it will be used because statutes are
• 46:27
  written for use why I'm skeptical about the
• 46:32
  timing of this document or of this amendment
• 46:36
  and why lawmakers should be too I'm not
• 46:40
  curious about the timing of this bill I
• 46:43
  am skeptical not because I claim to know
• 46:45
  the sponsors motive but because the timing is
• 46:48
  too convenient to ignore for months Missouri's public
• 46:51
  conversation has been moving in the opposite directions
• 46:54
  agencies do not get to expand their own
• 46:56
  authority by interpreting statutes into new powers the
• 46:59
  courts are not supposed to rubber stamp agency
• 47:03
  creativity as though regulators themselves are lawmakers Missouri
• 47:07
  went even further than most states and I'm
• 47:10
  talking about after loper bright overturned the chevron
• 47:14
  doctrine its administrative review statute now expressly tells
• 47:18
  courts not to defer to agency interpretation and
• 47:22
  to decide any remaining doubt in favor of
• 47:24
  limiting agency power and maximizing individual liberty at
• 47:30
  the federal level the same tide has been
• 47:33
  running the u.s. supreme court decision in
• 47:35
  loper bright rejected chevron style judicial deference and
• 47:38
  reaffirm that judges not agencies say what the
• 47:41
  law means and Missouri statute 536.140 and
• 47:46
  the federal trend point in the same direction
• 47:49
  less agency self-rule more judicial control so
• 47:53
  against that backdrop a bill that shifts the
• 47:56
  power from statutory limits to officer discretion exigent
• 48:01
  circumstances doesn't read like a coincidence at least
• 48:06
  to me it reads like adaptation I'm not
• 48:09
  claiming that I know who asked for this
• 48:11
  but I want to find out why thus
• 48:13
  the sunshine law request that went out yesterday
• 48:15
  I am saying the timing raises an obvious
• 48:19
  question what problem is this bill really trying
• 48:23
  to solve and for whose benefit sure isn't
• 48:26
  the benefit of the holder so from judges
• 48:29
  interpreting statutes to officers declaring emergencies that's what
• 48:33
  this bill will do post amendment to RSMO
• 48:36
  536.140 which was effective August 28 to
• 48:40
  2025 Missouri's administrative law framework is supposed to
• 48:44
  keep judges in the driver's seat on what
• 48:46
  law means the whole point of judicial review
• 48:49
  is to prevent agencies from being investigator prosecutor
• 48:54
  judge and jury over the scope of their
• 48:57
  own power there's got to be some kind
• 49:00
  of oversight and there isn't there's none but
• 49:03
  a bill like this changes that battlefield entirely
• 49:06
  instead of an agency having to justify its
• 49:09
  interpretation of a statute in court the bill
• 49:12
  hands the officer a discretionary trigger and turns
• 49:16
  legal meaning into a factual claim by the
• 49:19
  I felt it was an emergency so if
• 49:22
  he thought it's an emergency he can do
• 49:24
  whatever he wants if this bill passes it
• 49:29
  will be because the legislator intends to provide
• 49:32
  a licensing regulator with police enforcement discretion once
• 49:37
  the statute is rewritten that way the court
• 49:39
  is no longer reviewing agency interpretation so much
• 49:43
  as it is reviewing the officer's discretion was
• 49:46
  it within his discretion to act that is
• 49:48
  a dramatic shift about who controls the outcome
• 49:52
  especially because emergency policing is the kind of
• 49:55
  discretion courts routinely hesitate to second guess after
• 50:00
  the fact I wasn't there if it appeared
• 50:02
  like an emergency to him well you know
• 50:05
  it was within his discretion and therefore you
• 50:08
  don't get to sue him because it's a
• 50:09
  discretionary matter right so he can go arrest
• 50:12
  he can go arrest a you know in
• 50:16
  the examples I gave a speeder someone who
• 50:19
  is speeding if he goes in and claims
• 50:21
  some emergency you can arrest him put him
• 50:23
  in jail and then what I don't know
• 50:26
  who he reports to but this is how
• 50:27
  you turn a lane limited regulator into a
• 50:30
  roaming police actor without ever having to admit
• 50:34
  that you did so and I really question
• 50:37
  why this is what bothers me the most
• 50:39
  is how conveniently this bill changes who gets
• 50:43
  to decide that question we've been insisting that
• 50:46
  agencies don't get to expand their own power
• 50:49
  by interpretation and that courts are supposed to
• 50:51
  enforce those limits then this appears and effectively
• 50:54
  turns the question into did the officer say
• 50:57
  it was an emergency or not that is
• 50:59
  not oversight that's outsourcing legal meaning to an
• 51:04
  on scene discretion call with no oversight of
• 51:07
  any kind today the lane is pretty clear
• 51:10
  authority is tied to a specific statute and
• 51:13
  specific regulatory purpose alcohol tobacco this bill adds
• 51:19
  a broad subjective permission slip to operate outside
• 51:24
  that line whenever the officer says the right
• 51:27
  words if you can reframe an encounter as
• 51:30
  exigent you can always reach back in your
• 51:33
  pocket and grab the police power and the
• 51:35
  old licensing only lane limit stops being any
• 51:39
  sort of limit at all and why is
• 51:42
  this important immunity why this bill is an
• 51:45
  accountability vacuum waiting to happen and legislators need
• 51:49
  to understand this and and you know it
• 51:52
  sounds great on its face oh gee these
• 51:54
  officers if an emergency exists they got to
• 51:56
  arrest somebody they're post certified anyway well I
• 51:59
  wonder why in the hell they're post certified
• 52:01
  they don't need to be to regulate a
• 52:03
  license they don't need to carry a weapon
• 52:05
  they don't need to go undercover I mean
• 52:07
  this is nonsense and this is the accountability
• 52:10
  vacuum waiting to happen if you want to
• 52:12
  understand what house bill 2378 will do in
• 52:15
  real life stop thinking like a legislator reading
• 52:18
  a bill and start thinking like a citizen
• 52:21
  calling a lawyer after the damage is already
• 52:23
  done at the federal level something called qualified
• 52:27
  immunity heavily protects discretionary on the spot judgment
• 52:31
  calls unless a right was clearly established in
• 52:34
  a very specific way at the Missouri level
• 52:37
  official immunity shields discretionary acts unless you can
• 52:41
  prove something like bad faith or malice threat
• 52:44
  assessment emergency decision and on scene arrests are
• 52:48
  textbook discretionary so house bill 2378 doesn't just
• 52:52
  expand authority expends authority inside a legal environment
• 52:56
  that already tends to forgive a reasonable officer
• 52:58
  on the scene perception and punishes citizens for
• 53:02
  not being able to disprove those things when
• 53:05
  a statute itself authorizes action based on immediate
• 53:08
  threat it supplies the exact vocabulary that later
• 53:13
  becomes a defense I acted reasonably legislature told
• 53:17
  me I could and I thought it might
• 53:20
  be an emergency or dangerous what is an
• 53:24
  emergency or dangerous while you're investigating a liquor
• 53:28
  license or you're verifying whether someone has their
• 53:31
  license up a licensing and why don't we
• 53:34
  do it for any other business I mean
• 53:37
  geez if a doctor if a why aren't
• 53:40
  medical doctors in you know under armed threat
• 53:45
  you know it's only bars it's only people
• 53:48
  that have a liquor license why is that
• 53:51
  makes no sense you can call the police
• 53:53
  if you think there's something wrong why in
• 53:55
  the world do you need to be able
• 53:56
  to rest well it's because they want to
• 53:58
  get out of this while we can't arrest
• 54:00
  because only 311 but if you give it
• 54:02
  to him like Benny Cook wanted to do
• 54:04
  of all cases they can arrest on anything
• 54:06
  but that's a huge problem as it goes
• 54:08
  further in practice this bill takes decision-making
• 54:12
  power out of the courts and hands it
• 54:13
  to the officer on the scene so later
• 54:18
  lawsuits become less about whether the agency extended
• 54:21
  its statutory lane and more about whether the
• 54:23
  officers asserted perception was reasonable it's a very
• 54:27
  low accountability standard and it's exactly how discretionary
• 54:31
  power becomes durable power now let's talk about
• 54:34
  the fourth amendment and the end run around
• 54:37
  this because this is huge this is a
• 54:40
  big deal the article that I shared with
• 54:41
  you on Friday told why and and I'll
• 54:46
  paraphrase some of that but I really want
• 54:48
  to make sure we get through this article
• 54:49
  today so there's another problem that should alarm
• 54:52
  anyone who worries about fourth amendment and takes
• 54:55
  it seriously on virtually every occasion a licensing
• 54:58
  agent enters a licensing premise lawfully for regulatory
• 55:03
  reasons check a posted license verify age verification
• 55:07
  practice observe compliance in public areas review required
• 55:12
  records that administrative access is not the same
• 55:17
  thing as probable cause for a criminal action
• 55:21
  but if you combine administrative access with a
• 55:24
  broad emergency arrest search and seizure hook like
• 55:28
  this bill is trying to do you get
• 55:30
  an end run around normal police investigation warrant
• 55:34
  culture they're above that they're suddenly above something's
• 55:38
  going on you need a warrant to I
• 55:40
  don't need a warrant all I got to
• 55:42
  do is claim it's an emergency while I'm
• 55:44
  in there under this new proposed model the
• 55:46
  officer would already be legal legally present in
• 55:49
  the establishment under a defined regulatory mission but
• 55:52
  the bill supplies a fast pivot into police
• 55:55
  action based on any claimed exigency or emergency
• 55:59
  real or imaginary in real life that's a
• 56:03
  warrant avoidance mechanism you don't have to satisfy
• 56:06
  normal criminal procedure if you can re-characterize
• 56:11
  that situation as an immediate threat or an
• 56:14
  emergency or an exit circumstance and act first
• 56:17
  let's be clear house bill 2378 doesn't repeal
• 56:21
  the fourth amendment courts can still suppress evidence
• 56:26
  but it sure as hell is an end
• 56:27
  run around if he's already there legally isn't
• 56:30
  it so some of the examples I shared
• 56:32
  with you last week where the officer went
• 56:35
  in as a spy left his ID outside
• 56:37
  he well he went into that investigating a
• 56:41
  crime he should have had a warrant in
• 56:43
  that example if he's going in on the
• 56:46
  somebody because he even said it in his
• 56:48
  report somebody reported x he didn't bother to
• 56:51
  get a warrant he knew he didn't need
• 56:52
  to he could go in and do it
• 56:54
  but he couldn't arrest anybody if he found
• 56:56
  anything because he didn't have that power he
• 56:58
  would add to come out tell the real
• 57:00
  cop what was going on and invite that
• 57:02
  cop in to check out what he did
• 57:04
  but the even the investigation is a breach
• 57:07
  of the fourth amendment right that's how constitutional
• 57:09
  guardrails get eroded in practice not by abolishing
• 57:13
  rights on paper but by designing a system
• 57:16
  that makes rights expensive to enforce and very
• 57:19
  easy for the officer to bypass so retribution
• 57:23
  is real for license holders even before this
• 57:26
  bill let's add the human reality that doesn't
• 57:29
  show up in statutory text license holders are
• 57:32
  already intimidated many will not speak publicly remember
• 57:37
  me telling about the the officer who told
• 57:40
  the license holder that lady is showing pubic
• 57:43
  hair coming out the side of her bathing
• 57:45
  suit you need to remove her or it's
• 57:47
  a licensing violation that's bs what in the
• 57:51
  world was he doing looking at the crotch
• 57:53
  of a woman anyway but that guy doesn't
• 57:55
  necessarily want to come forward he said he
• 57:58
  would if it became you know a huge
• 58:00
  issue but they're already intimidated these guys already
• 58:04
  hold their license in their hand anyway and
• 58:09
  they can shut them down as they've done
• 58:11
  in several examples cost them hundreds of thousand
• 58:13
  dollars huge reputation things and uh they they're
• 58:18
  allowed to shut them down and and take
• 58:21
  them out these people are afraid to speak
• 58:22
  afraid afraid to not this isn't a a
• 58:25
  collegial uh review of a license holder license
• 58:29
  holders are intimidated they won't come on a
• 58:32
  program and express concern on the record they
• 58:35
  will not criticize the regulator or his or
• 58:38
  her actions they're afraid of retribution in the
• 58:41
  form of extra inspections selective enforcement administrative hassle
• 58:46
  and the ultimate threat loss of the liquor
• 58:49
  license which is for most of them their
• 58:51
  entire business that fear alone should make legislators
• 58:56
  cautious about expanding coercive power in this space
• 59:00
  when a regulator controls your livelihood yes sam
• 59:04
  phillips and my livelihood as a lawyer not
• 59:07
  just in missouri but everywhere in the country
• 59:09
  voluntary cooperation is already not voluntary and silence
• 59:14
  is not proof that everything is fine silence
• 59:16
  is often self-defense you know you're not
• 59:19
  going to say anything because you don't want
• 59:21
  the consequences if i had everything to do
• 59:23
  again uh from from 12 years ago now
• 59:26
  jesus uh i would i would be licking
• 59:30
  sam phillips ass from here to i don't
• 59:32
  know wherever whatever vacation spot you want to
• 59:35
  go to and uh you know in an
• 59:38
  effort to uh keep the license you know
• 59:40
  but i was i was doing what i
• 59:42
  thought was right and and by the way
• 59:43
  it uncovered a bunch of crap that isn't
• 59:45
  but nobody will listen to it so you
• 59:47
  gotta you gotta build civic outlaws in order
• 59:50
  to get that done so retribution is very
• 59:53
  real for a license holder and uh you
• 59:56
  know hb 2378 doesn't land in a neutral
• 1:00:00
  environment it lands in an environment where the
• 1:00:03
  regulated community already believes that speaking up will
• 1:00:06
  make them a target expanding arrest search and
• 1:00:09
  seizure discretion in that environment is gasoline not
• 1:00:14
  governance three scenarios i'm going to give you
• 1:00:17
  that show how this amendment would play out
• 1:00:19
  in reality from the mild to the ugly
• 1:00:22
  if supporters want to defend house bill 2378
• 1:00:26
  they should be willing to discuss real world
• 1:00:29
  scenarios not just sanitized hypotheticals about emergency and
• 1:00:33
  heroism number one a compliance visit lewdness and
• 1:00:38
  a pivot to exigency an atc agent enters
• 1:00:42
  a venue here's an example enter this this
• 1:00:44
  is how you learn in law school they
• 1:00:46
  give you examples and then you talk about
• 1:00:48
  them and our legislators should have all gone
• 1:00:50
  to law school in my view or at
• 1:00:52
  least through a class that gives them critical
• 1:00:54
  thinking skills like this because law school is
• 1:00:57
  generally socratic you know there's you could there
• 1:01:01
  are different answers in the law there are
• 1:01:03
  different arguments to be made and what you
• 1:01:05
  need to do is learn how to make
• 1:01:06
  an argument based on the facts as a
• 1:01:09
  lawyer and either side of the argument you
• 1:01:11
  could read a set of facts in the
• 1:01:13
  the the law school professor all right trap
• 1:01:15
  uh give um give uh the point of
• 1:01:18
  view from a license holder all right or
• 1:01:21
  that could be mr trap give it on
• 1:01:23
  the point of view of the agent okay
• 1:01:25
  so that's why i'm reading these is socratic
• 1:01:28
  method for you an atc agent enters a
• 1:01:31
  venue for a routine compliance check check of
• 1:01:34
  the licenses posted age verification required signage during
• 1:01:38
  the visit the agent sees what the agent
• 1:01:41
  believes to be lewd like the lady with
• 1:01:45
  uh pubic hair showing out the side of
• 1:01:47
  her outfit or a server's costume that shows
• 1:01:52
  too much uh boob in his independent view
• 1:01:55
  or anything that he decides is lewd say
• 1:01:59
  a server's costume slips and they see a
• 1:02:02
  bit of a butt cheek or a patron
• 1:02:04
  swimsuit shows pubic hair but by itself that's
• 1:02:07
  not an immediate bodily harm but it could
• 1:02:09
  be an un an exigent circumstances and crowds
• 1:02:13
  are unpredictable let's say the agent claimed that
• 1:02:16
  the room is getting heated that the license
• 1:02:19
  holder refused to remove remove the pubic hair
• 1:02:22
  lady and voices rise somebody shoves a chair
• 1:02:24
  the agent suddenly feels threatened or in emergency
• 1:02:27
  or an exit circumstance and now under house
• 1:02:30
  bill 2378 the agent has a statutory trigger
• 1:02:33
  to escalate into arrest search and seizure authority
• 1:02:35
  because an immediate threat exists and now he
• 1:02:39
  gets criminal inspection criminal rights attach where they
• 1:02:43
  are not present now okay what happens next
• 1:02:47
  in real life the agent detains people the
• 1:02:49
  agent orders staff into back rooms the agent
• 1:02:52
  seizes cameras or phones from people present to
• 1:02:54
  preserve the evidence evidence the agent demand he
• 1:02:58
  hides liquor bottles in the in the back
• 1:03:01
  of his truck and logs them as evidence
• 1:03:03
  down at the station house the agent demands
• 1:03:05
  names records the owner who hasn't committed a
• 1:03:08
  violent act gets cuffed or detained as the
• 1:03:11
  responsible party because the agent says the scene
• 1:03:13
  is unstable and in the end even if
• 1:03:15
  criminal charges go nowhere the administrative consequence is
• 1:03:19
  devastating and if somebody sues the case collapses
• 1:03:22
  as a reasonable officer on the scene and
• 1:03:25
  the qualified or official immunity argument that i
• 1:03:30
  brought up before you get into these immunity
• 1:03:32
  fights and usually the patron or the person
• 1:03:35
  making the complaint against the officer loses scenario
• 1:03:39
  two a bar fight and the regulator plus
• 1:03:42
  guy comes in and squeezes a situation a
• 1:03:46
  fight breaks out two patrons then five then
• 1:03:49
  ten this is the scenario supporters will use
• 1:03:53
  because it's emotionally persuasive somebody should be arrested
• 1:03:57
  somebody should intervene but here's the question do
• 1:03:59
  you want the intervention to be performed by
• 1:04:01
  a licensing regulator or a policeman as if
• 1:04:05
  somebody who holds a license in his hands
• 1:04:07
  under house bill 2378 the atc officer can
• 1:04:10
  treat the scene as exigent make arrest search
• 1:04:13
  and seize and in the very next breath
• 1:04:15
  pivot to a regulatory enforcement against the business
• 1:04:18
  owner citations accusations disorder threats to license compliance
• 1:04:23
  compliance failure that become a bargaining chip against
• 1:04:27
  the owner of the establishment or the license
• 1:04:30
  holder this is not how limited government is
• 1:04:32
  supposed to work we separate policing from licensing
• 1:04:36
  precisely because combining them creates coercion when the
• 1:04:42
  same actor can arrest you and regulate your
• 1:04:45
  livelihood due process becomes something you beg for
• 1:04:50
  not something you receive it's gone scenario three
• 1:04:55
  a serious allegation now the ugly scenario described
• 1:04:58
  by the assistant ag in the hearing in
• 1:05:00
  cole county on december 3rd a patron reports
• 1:05:03
  a sexual assault in a restroom or a
• 1:05:06
  back area a rape a real emergency exists
• 1:05:09
  immediate response matters under house bill 2378 the
• 1:05:13
  atc officer can claim exigency and escalate into
• 1:05:16
  arrest search and seizures fine except now the
• 1:05:19
  officer is both the regulatory gatekeeper and the
• 1:05:22
  police actor operating from administrative lawful presence and
• 1:05:26
  then expanding into a deeper investigation based on
• 1:05:31
  his claimed emergency the officer locks down the
• 1:05:34
  premises the searches error he searches areas that
• 1:05:37
  would normally trigger warrants the officer sees devices
• 1:05:41
  footage records and names and here's the kicker
• 1:05:44
  the business owner may not be guilty of
• 1:05:47
  the crime but the owner is still treated
• 1:05:48
  as a suspect detained interrogated punished administratively the
• 1:05:53
  encounter becomes the full government takeover of the
• 1:05:56
  premises on the spot because the statute empowers
• 1:06:00
  it and the officer said the magic words
• 1:06:03
  exigent circumstances supporters will say but that is
• 1:06:07
  an emergency critics will say like i do
• 1:06:09
  yes that's exactly why real police officers should
• 1:06:13
  be called and take control because real police
• 1:06:16
  would have established criminal procedure evidence protocol accountability
• 1:06:21
  mechanisms a licensing agency should not be upgraded
• 1:06:25
  into a general emergency police force by statutory
• 1:06:28
  shortcuts undercover work when the agency becomes its
• 1:06:32
  own investigator enforcer and judge of exigency like
• 1:06:35
  the guy who we have the police report
• 1:06:37
  on on what he did that would be
• 1:06:40
  should be thrown out by any court if
• 1:06:42
  anybody did anything if but only if only
• 1:06:45
  if somebody's charged with a crime but they
• 1:06:47
  don't do that they go in they act
• 1:06:49
  like police officers they go undercover they take
• 1:06:51
  criminal sorts of actions all without a warrant
• 1:06:54
  and they then use the possibility of them
• 1:06:58
  going and filing a criminal charge against the
• 1:07:01
  license holder which is an administrative function and
• 1:07:04
  he doesn't want to lose his license so
• 1:07:05
  he will bend over and kiss the rear
• 1:07:08
  end of this investigator all day long so
• 1:07:12
  he doesn't lose his life his livelihood that's
• 1:07:16
  a big deal so undercover work is a
• 1:07:20
  horror story for in fact they ought to
• 1:07:22
  take that away and take the guy who's
• 1:07:24
  do who's who's done it in a licensing
• 1:07:26
  scenario and fire him that's what i think
• 1:07:29
  a support of the house bill 2378 would
• 1:07:32
  say this act lets them or this just
• 1:07:34
  lets them act when somebody might get hurt
• 1:07:37
  but that's not how it will function on
• 1:07:39
  the ground as the three examples i gave
• 1:07:41
  you already says atc agents already have reason
• 1:07:44
  and method to enter observe and conduct compliance
• 1:07:47
  activity in the real world they can include
• 1:07:50
  undercover style observation to detect a licensing violation
• 1:07:55
  the problem isn't that observation the problem is
• 1:07:58
  what happens when observation turns into policing with
• 1:08:02
  no normal criminal guardrail so this new bill
• 1:08:07
  risks creating a closed loop the agency authorizes
• 1:08:10
  the entry because it's a regulation the agency
• 1:08:14
  decides what it saw because it's investigative the
• 1:08:18
  same agent decides that the situation is exigent
• 1:08:21
  because that's under his discretion the same agent
• 1:08:25
  acts with arrest search and seizure power because
• 1:08:28
  the new statute says so and the agency
• 1:08:30
  then uses the encounter to pressure licensing outcomes
• 1:08:34
  because the regulator says so or the statute
• 1:08:39
  says so in this regulatory license it regulates
• 1:08:42
  the license that loop is the exact opposite
• 1:08:46
  of any checks and balances if you want
• 1:08:49
  to see why this matters ask a simple
• 1:08:51
  question where is the neutral referee in the
• 1:08:55
  loop the answer is only the officer's discretion
• 1:08:59
  reviewed later under deferential reasonableness wrapped in immunity
• 1:09:04
  that is not a system designed for maximizing
• 1:09:07
  individual liberty as required under rsmo the new
• 1:09:11
  version 536.140 it is a system designed
• 1:09:17
  for administrative victory that's what it is house
• 1:09:22
  bill 2378 is sponsored by representative benny cook
• 1:09:26
  his biography matters because it tells you how
• 1:09:29
  he likely sees the world he maintained a
• 1:09:32
  commission with texas county sheriff's department dating back
• 1:09:35
  to 2005 reporting roughly 19 years of law
• 1:09:39
  enforcement has served as a 9-1-1
• 1:09:41
  board member and county emergency management director he
• 1:09:44
  has a criminal justice administration degree he is
• 1:09:47
  not naive about emergency response that background makes
• 1:09:52
  the bill understandable but it also makes it
• 1:09:56
  more dangerous a law enforcement mindset naturally leans
• 1:10:00
  toward let the officer on the scene act
• 1:10:03
  first in true policing context that can save
• 1:10:08
  lives in a regulatory licensing context that can
• 1:10:12
  become mission creep and coercion against a license
• 1:10:17
  holder so here is the fair question for
• 1:10:20
  the sponsor uh benny cook and that he
• 1:10:23
  should answer in public who asked for this
• 1:10:26
  bill what incidents drove this bill what licensing
• 1:10:31
  gap exists that local law enforcement couldn't cover
• 1:10:35
  why can't an agent call the police i
• 1:10:38
  mean he can stay there secure the scene
• 1:10:40
  even while the while the police are called
• 1:10:42
  and in practice you know they can do
• 1:10:45
  that anyway what would that nothing would change
• 1:10:48
  call the police police will be there you
• 1:10:51
  know especially if requested by another post certified
• 1:10:53
  dude right um what licensing gap exists really
• 1:10:58
  why wasn't a solution a mandatory call out
• 1:11:02
  and handoff protocol to the real police instead
• 1:11:05
  of expanding arrest search and seizure language for
• 1:11:08
  a licensing agency could it be to avoid
• 1:11:11
  the fourth amendment we wonder and why does
• 1:11:16
  the bill contain search and seizure at all
• 1:11:19
  instead of a narrowly authorized limited scene security
• 1:11:23
  action until the real police arrive if the
• 1:11:28
  answers are good to those questions maybe we
• 1:11:30
  can amend this bill into something narrow that's
• 1:11:33
  accountable if the answers are evasive or worse
• 1:11:36
  don't show up at all public suspicion about
• 1:11:39
  timing and motive will only grow because the
• 1:11:42
  structure of the bill itself invites that suspicion
• 1:11:44
  and in conclusion a free state does not
• 1:11:48
  build regulator police plus units house bill 2378
• 1:11:53
  is a quiet upgrade it takes a licensing
• 1:11:57
  regulatory agency already staffed unnecessarily in my view
• 1:12:03
  with post-licensed peace officers and adds a
• 1:12:07
  broad emergency-based justification to arrest search and
• 1:12:10
  seize power triggered a power trigger defined by
• 1:12:14
  the officer on the scene and protected by
• 1:12:17
  immunity doctrine after the fact this is not
• 1:12:21
  a minor tweak it's a shift into who
• 1:12:23
  gets to decide it takes it away from
• 1:12:25
  courts interpreting a statute and gives the officer
• 1:12:28
  the power to declare emergencies whenever he feels
• 1:12:31
  like it away from warrants and toward exceptions
• 1:12:34
  away from limited lanes and toward discretionary power
• 1:12:38
  of the officer on the scene and it
• 1:12:39
  lands in an environment where license holders already
• 1:12:43
  fear retaliation for speaking up if Missouri wants
• 1:12:47
  licensing enforced let licensing be enforced if emergency
• 1:12:52
  wants emergencies handled call the police and if
• 1:12:56
  Missouri wants to turn regulators into police then
• 1:13:00
  it should say so openly and impose police
• 1:13:03
  grade oversight anything else is government creep anything
• 1:13:08
  less is a backdoor entry and anything less
• 1:13:11
  is the quiet growth of the police state
• 1:13:14
  and that ends my article and I'm glad
• 1:13:18
  I made it through the whole thing if
• 1:13:20
  you would like a copy of that you
• 1:13:22
  can go out to civicoutlaws.com I believe
• 1:13:24
  it is out there and I think it's
• 1:13:27
  important I really do I think turning the
• 1:13:31
  alcohol tobacco control into a police force is
• 1:13:35
  a huge mistake I'd like to see somebody
• 1:13:38
  propose a bill in the opposite direction say
• 1:13:42
  say what I say why in the world
• 1:13:46
  does a why what I already say this
• 1:13:51
  enough about regular police why in the world
• 1:13:55
  are they so militarized why in the world
• 1:13:57
  is everybody running around in if you need
• 1:14:00
  a SWAT team call the SWAT team everybody
• 1:14:03
  doesn't have to be a SWAT member now
• 1:14:07
  I understand and fully support several things with
• 1:14:11
  respect to police departments I understand body armor
• 1:14:15
  and I think they should wear it that's
• 1:14:17
  what I think I think it should be
• 1:14:18
  issued to them but I don't think they
• 1:14:21
  should some of the crap that they put
• 1:14:24
  in there I don't think they should have
• 1:14:26
  militarized vehicles I don't think so I don't
• 1:14:29
  think everybody should should be a SWAT member
• 1:14:34
  I really don't I'd like to see a
• 1:14:36
  police officer be a police officer especially at
• 1:14:38
  the community level you should have to call
• 1:14:40
  in the big dogs if the big dogs
• 1:14:43
  are in but I would leave wearing body
• 1:14:45
  armor to the discretion of the policeman whether
• 1:14:48
  he would wear it or not and just
• 1:14:50
  curious to see how many wouldn't I think
• 1:14:53
  it's a safety concern that most of them
• 1:14:55
  does they don't know what they're going to
• 1:14:56
  run up against every day I support that
• 1:14:58
  that doesn't mean you militarize them you know
• 1:15:01
  I don't like that I don't think people
• 1:15:02
  like that in general and I sure as
• 1:15:05
  hell don't like it when you're regular when
• 1:15:07
  all you are is a regulator I want
• 1:15:11
  to know how many times a regulator of
• 1:15:13
  a liquor license has been shot at going
• 1:15:17
  to investigate the license you know there's already
• 1:15:22
  a method for them to arrest under the
• 1:15:25
  auspices of 311 chapter 311 for alcohol chapter
• 1:15:31
  407 for tobacco they can arrest for violations
• 1:15:35
  of those laws but where do they go
• 1:15:39
  with the evidence that they collect the local
• 1:15:43
  police they should call somebody on site frankly
• 1:15:46
  I don't think they should have it anyway
• 1:15:48
  I don't think they should be post-certified
• 1:15:50
  even I think it's I think that we
• 1:15:53
  need to go the opposite direction if you're
• 1:15:55
  just a or or make every license investigator
• 1:15:59
  for every license of every kind an armed
• 1:16:05
  post-certified guy inspecting why in the world
• 1:16:09
  does a liquor license post-certified why you
• 1:16:12
  want to save money legislature you got your
• 1:16:14
  appropriations committee coming up you want to save
• 1:16:17
  it take away post-certification that's what you
• 1:16:19
  ought to do you ought to do the
• 1:16:21
  reverse and that no there is no necessity
• 1:16:23
  for an ATC officer to be post-certified
• 1:16:28
  I'd love to hear that argument on the
• 1:16:31
  floor of the house that's what I would
• 1:16:33
  like to see and instead of Benny Cook
• 1:16:35
  trying to expand it and probably you know
• 1:16:37
  he probably remembers a circumstance or something that
• 1:16:41
  occurred but you know my suspicion is that
• 1:16:44
  that's not the case my suspicion is that
• 1:16:47
  the timing of this is way off my
• 1:16:50
  suspicion is is that there was communication between
• 1:16:54
  the two and so yesterday because I'm a
• 1:16:58
  suspicious a-hole I sent Benny Cook a
• 1:17:04
  sunshine law request and I've invited people on
• 1:17:08
  the show you can come on in the
• 1:17:10
  morning and chat it doesn't bother me I
• 1:17:12
  I and tell me I'm wrong I'd be
• 1:17:14
  happy to be proven wrong okay that would
• 1:17:17
  be just fine by me I was wrong
• 1:17:19
  once or twice before and I would love
• 1:17:22
  to be told that I'm wrong here or
• 1:17:25
  explain to me why I'm wrong and so
• 1:17:28
  I sent out two sunshine requests one to
• 1:17:31
  Kristen Templeton the head of ATC yesterday now
• 1:17:35
  they've been given us the ATC has been
• 1:17:37
  given us I believe the runaround on some
• 1:17:40
  of the things that we have requested sending
• 1:17:42
  us $300,000 bills and crap like that
• 1:17:46
  and saying it'll take 44.3 years to
• 1:17:49
  respond I already think they're in ridiculous land
• 1:17:53
  and the latest one was something we got
• 1:17:56
  back a week ago which says they can't
• 1:17:58
  search these documents and it might contain somebody's
• 1:18:02
  tax ID number and so they'd have to
• 1:18:04
  take it off okay but I looked at
• 1:18:07
  it it's not a it's the only tax
• 1:18:09
  ID number is a state number for their
• 1:18:13
  sales tax number their sales tax ID so
• 1:18:16
  they have to have the sales tax ID
• 1:18:18
  put in there and so the sales tax
• 1:18:20
  ID wouldn't that be public record anyway that's
• 1:18:23
  the way I think it is you know
• 1:18:24
  see if people have it I think they
• 1:18:26
  have to tell you what their tax ID
• 1:18:28
  is anybody can request it you know I'm
• 1:18:30
  a charitable c3 501 c3 if somebody asks
• 1:18:35
  for my status I got to give it
• 1:18:37
  up and any license holder would have to
• 1:18:39
  give up their state license number anyway and
• 1:18:44
  probably their state tax number their tax ID
• 1:18:47
  number in the state and which isn't your
• 1:18:50
  social security number and so those documents I
• 1:18:53
  believe could be given to us and they
• 1:18:55
  wouldn't take 53 weeks and eight thousand dollars
• 1:18:59
  or whatever the amount was so I'm going
• 1:19:01
  to share with you because I'm running out
• 1:19:03
  of time civic outlaws request to Kristen Templeton
• 1:19:07
  the head of DPS I'm sorry the head
• 1:19:09
  of ATC she reports to the head of
• 1:19:12
  DPS Department of Public Safety Kristen Templeton Missouri
• 1:19:16
  Division of Alcohol Tobacco Control re civic outlaws
• 1:19:20
  transfer transparency outreach and Missouri sunshine law requests
• 1:19:25
  December 3 to 2005 to the president and
• 1:19:28
  uh Ms. Templeton I'm reaching out in a
• 1:19:32
  cooperative spirit civic outlaws is a Missouri based
• 1:19:36
  501 c3 public charity focused on transparency and
• 1:19:41
  public education helping citizens understand how policy decisions
• 1:19:45
  take shape by relying on the public record
• 1:19:48
  my goal here is straightforward to make sure
• 1:19:51
  the record is complete and accurate if there's
• 1:19:53
  an efficient way for your office to handle
• 1:19:55
  this request I'm happy to work with you
• 1:19:57
  on logistics and if you'd prefer I'm also
• 1:20:00
  open to a brief call after production just
• 1:20:04
  to ensure we're interpreting what's produced correctly to
• 1:20:07
  keep everything clear this letter is a new
• 1:20:09
  request under Missouri sunshine law RSMO chapter 610
• 1:20:14
  I'm keeping it intentionally narrow Missouri sunshine law
• 1:20:19
  request time period I'm looking for records created
• 1:20:23
  or received on or after December 3rd 2025
• 1:20:28
  that's the date of this hearing uh in
• 1:20:32
  uh Cole County in front of Judge Stumpy
• 1:20:36
  Custodians are limited to Kristen H Templeton and
• 1:20:40
  any direct administrative support staff who communicate externally
• 1:20:45
  on your behalf if any on what I
• 1:20:48
  want are the legislative recipients they're also limited
• 1:20:52
  any senders I want to know whether there's
• 1:20:54
  been any representative Benny Cook or his legislative
• 1:20:58
  staff communications between them members and staff counsel
• 1:21:04
  for the Missouri house committee on crime and
• 1:21:06
  public safety including committee or staff or counsel
• 1:21:10
  and any house staff counsel directly involved in
• 1:21:15
  drafting revising or negotiating bill language or amendments
• 1:21:19
  related to house bill 3154 because there's another
• 1:21:22
  one out there and I'm writing an article
• 1:21:24
  on that and or house bill 2378 the
• 1:21:28
  bill and topic limitation we want to talk
• 1:21:30
  about communications that concern either house bill 3154
• 1:21:35
  or house bill 2378 or any other bill
• 1:21:40
  amendment that discusses references incorporates or is substantively
• 1:21:46
  related to those bills limited to communications about
• 1:21:50
  any of the following subject as they connect
• 1:21:53
  to those bills background screening requirements including ownership
• 1:21:57
  interests use of criminal history information and licensing
• 1:22:01
  any expansion of ATC authority or licensing enforcement
• 1:22:07
  discretion tied to those bills records requested what
• 1:22:12
  I specifically want emails messages used for ATC
• 1:22:17
  business like text and iMessage whatsapp signal team
• 1:22:21
  slack or similar draft language red lines bills
• 1:22:25
  drafts amendments one pit one one page papers
• 1:22:29
  talking points summaries issue briefs or proposed edits
• 1:22:33
  exchange with legislative personnel calendar invitations or meeting
• 1:22:38
  requests reflecting meetings or calls about the above
• 1:22:41
  bill topic included in any attachment if maintained
• 1:22:46
  search guidance no as minimal by design you
• 1:22:52
  may limit search to the terms because they
• 1:22:55
  can search these emails and stuff like that
• 1:22:57
  two terms hb 3154 hb 2378 if ATC
• 1:23:03
  communications use shorthand or alternate labels for those
• 1:23:07
  bills please include those records as well if
• 1:23:10
  no records are located if your search does
• 1:23:14
  not locate responsive records please confirm that in
• 1:23:18
  writing and briefly describe the scope of the
• 1:23:21
  search conducted custodians date range and general location
• 1:23:26
  search such as email and stored documents redaction
• 1:23:31
  withholding if any portion is withheld or redacted
• 1:23:35
  like the license your state tax license number
• 1:23:42
  please produce the remainder and identify the basis
• 1:23:46
  for redaction and withholding frankly i don't think
• 1:23:50
  there is one for a tax id but
• 1:23:52
  i haven't looked yet i haven't checked out
• 1:23:54
  any case law delivery please provide records electronically
• 1:23:58
  to samuel t at civic outlaws.com email
• 1:24:02
  or download link if records are electronic please
• 1:24:05
  produce electronically native format where feasible or a
• 1:24:09
  searchable pdf fees before incurring costs please provide
• 1:24:13
  a written cost estimate and use the lowest
• 1:24:15
  cost method rolling production is appreciated if feasible
• 1:24:19
  thank you for your time and help in
• 1:24:21
  keeping the public record complete and accurate please
• 1:24:25
  confirm receipt an estimated production date samuel trap
• 1:24:29
  director of operations civic outlaws incorporated our charity
• 1:24:35
  501 c3 i wanted to share that stuff
• 1:24:39
  with you today because it's not like we're
• 1:24:41
  not engaging i hope we're engaging sufficiently professionally
• 1:24:46
  because i have some very heated topics sometime
• 1:24:51
  this has affected me dramatically this type of
• 1:24:55
  activity in state overreach but just because i'm
• 1:24:59
  not licensed doesn't mean that i'm wrong i'm
• 1:25:04
  right i have been right the whole time
• 1:25:06
  and that that speech needs to go along
• 1:25:09
  and i do plan and intend to send
• 1:25:12
  my uh uh sunshine request out to the
• 1:25:18
  missouri bar again attach the first one and
• 1:25:22
  attach uh you know say hey if you
• 1:25:25
  claim you don't have to answer and hell
• 1:25:27
  i'll have somebody go serve them with that
• 1:25:29
  to make sure they get it and it
• 1:25:31
  goes to the right person i want to
• 1:25:33
  guarantee that you know because they could just
• 1:25:35
  be blocking i i served it by email
• 1:25:37
  and by mail i mailed a copy of
• 1:25:40
  it but i didn't do certified back in
• 1:25:42
  june 30th i know it got to them
• 1:25:44
  because it didn't get bounced back nothing like
• 1:25:46
  that and it got to the governor's office
• 1:25:49
  it got to the uh supreme court and
• 1:25:51
  they both responded missouri bar not so and
• 1:25:55
  uh basically they're either just saying that trap
• 1:25:59
  you know look what we did to him
• 1:26:01
  and uh you know we're going to continue
• 1:26:04
  just ignoring him why because he's a he's
• 1:26:10
  an instigator he he's agitators he's he's an
• 1:26:14
  agitator and uh maybe i am maybe that's
• 1:26:18
  what i was chosen for in my lot
• 1:26:20
  in life is to be an agitator i'm
• 1:26:22
  an agitator and uh but i tell you
• 1:26:25
  what i want to get to the bottom
• 1:26:26
  of this i think what they did to
• 1:26:28
  me is bs i think they were very
• 1:26:31
  selective in in how they did it sam
• 1:26:33
  phillips targeted me directly and i believe that
• 1:26:36
  license holders under this new house bill benny
• 1:26:39
  cook would be just as devastating to the
• 1:26:46
  lives and livelihood of people who depend on
• 1:26:49
  an alcohol license on a license to sell
• 1:26:53
  retail or buy the drink they depend on
• 1:26:58
  that for their very livelihoods and lives and
• 1:27:02
  if you're taking that away it shouldn't be
• 1:27:05
  by circumventing the fourth amendment by doing an
• 1:27:08
  end run around procedure because you get away
• 1:27:12
  with it and you always have civic outlaws
• 1:27:16
  exists to attack such overreach and i'm telling
• 1:27:20
  you i'm committed this is not going um
• 1:27:25
  this is not going uh to end with
• 1:27:28
  me just quietly petering out somewhere i'm not
• 1:27:31
  going to do it and i will go
• 1:27:34
  as far as needs to go i invite
• 1:27:36
  anyone who has a contrary opinion to contact
• 1:27:41
  me samuel t at international flavor dot com
• 1:27:44
  samuel t civic outlaws dot com samuel t
• 1:27:48
  modern law ecosystem dot com and i any
• 1:27:54
  one of those three and i can be
• 1:27:56
  reached you know i will talk to you
• 1:27:59
  and i would love to talk to you
• 1:28:01
  especially if a different point of view i'd
• 1:28:03
  like you to convince me but benny cook
• 1:28:06
  but come on in i am not anti
• 1:28:10
  police not remotely i i have strong opinions
• 1:28:15
  on a lot of it on the police
• 1:28:17
  department i have strong opinions about uh what
• 1:28:21
  do you call it uh immunity and that's
• 1:28:24
  a bs prospect for most of the part
• 1:28:26
  that people don't get you don't get to
• 1:28:28
  take out bad actors that are bad actors
• 1:28:32
  because of qualified and official immunity a lot
• 1:28:35
  of times you can't even sue them because
• 1:28:38
  the question isn't about what damages were created
• 1:28:41
  and done by an individual actor it's about
• 1:28:44
  whether or not they had the discretion to
• 1:28:47
  do it lives get destroyed that way by
• 1:28:51
  one person having discretion to destroy a life
• 1:28:55
  and livelihood like sam phillips at the office
• 1:28:58
  of chief disciplinary council hell he revels in
• 1:29:01
  it and i believe there are a lot
• 1:29:03
  of licensing people who do that's the end
• 1:29:06
  of international flavor today um i'm very glad
• 1:29:09
  you joined us please join me every morning
• 1:29:11
  uh from 7 30 to 9 a.m
• 1:29:15
  at damn radio.com forward slash live you
• 1:29:17
  can listen to all of past shows at
• 1:29:20
  internationalflavor.com and i hope you do we're
• 1:29:25
  trying to open the door open the window
• 1:29:28
  open the eyes of people and i hope
• 1:29:31
  you keep supporting us and join in the
• 1:29:37
  queries to people who dictate what you will
• 1:29:41
  do in life have a very good day
• 1:29:43
  a great mid-missouri day