Latest / Simply Bitcoin / FORBES EXPOSES Debt Spiral & Sends HUGE BITCOIN WARNING! | EP 1324

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FORBES EXPOSES Debt Spiral & Sends HUGE BITCOIN WARNING! | EP 1324 · Simply Bitcoin

0:00
Forbes just dropped a new article exposing the looming
0:03
debt spiral and sending a massive Bitcoin warning.
0:07
Bitcoin could be setting up a perfect storm if the money
0:10
printer is about to be turned on in September, right as Bitcoin
0:14
exits what is historically its worst month.
0:18
And this time could be different.
0:19
I know I'm starting to show off with this time could be
0:21
different, but it just, it just might be.
0:24
Anyways, let's dive straight into this article that explains
0:27
the path to $2,000,000 Bitcoin point and really why we are
0:31
probably on the verge of something great.
0:34
Anyways, I'm not alone. I got our boy Kent from Sales
0:36
Mining and of course Nico is going to cover this article
0:40
because I don't have Forbes here.
0:42
They locked me out of this. So Nico the.
0:44
Floor is yours. Yeah.
0:46
So check out this headline. I mean, this is crazy.
0:48
This isn't a simply Bitcoin title.
0:50
This is literally a Forbes headline.
0:53
And for the audio listeners, it's dollar heart attack, $12
0:57
trillion Fed crisis predicted to try to drive Bitcoin to
1:02
$2,000,000 per coin. It's kind of really interesting
1:06
that they're talking about this Opti because kind of connecting
1:08
the dots with I think it was yesterday we were talking about
1:12
how in France and I think also Germany, I think it was UK
1:16
actually, you pulled up all these you pulled up all these
1:19
articles where those governments are having a hard time selling
1:22
bonds, right. So it seems like there's this
1:25
like turmoil going on not just in not just in Europe, but also
1:29
in the United States as well. And this is the case.
1:33
This is the and we have a clip from Les Lapard that we're going
1:35
to play for you guys later on the show and he's making the
1:38
case as well. Like basically the TLDR is this
1:41
nothing stops this train. Inevitably, they're going to
1:44
have to print when the system starts to falter.
1:48
And if you see the interactions between Trump and Jerome Powell,
1:52
Trump's just, you know, hitting metaphorically, of course,
1:56
Jerome Powell, you know, with the too late Powell, you know,
2:00
and then he's just showing up at the Fed, like, criticizing how
2:03
much money they're spending on the, you know, on the
2:05
renovation. I don't know how a building
2:07
could cost $3 billion to renovate.
2:09
But anyways, so anyways, just check out some of the key parts
2:13
of this article that, you know, substantiates this bombastic
2:18
headline because that's really what it is.
2:20
So here's Powell, I guess, you know, reacting to $2,000,000 per
2:24
coin. I'm assuming Christine Lagarde
2:26
would have the same reaction. You know, it's like a reaction
2:29
of surprise, disbelief, and then understanding that the central
2:32
banking system is never going to be able to compete.
2:35
But of course, they're taking that out of context.
2:38
But that's what that's those pictures are all about.
2:40
Anyways, the first quote I want to read for you guys is when
2:43
Bitcoin wins, it ends the Fed, Bellagi, the author of the
2:47
network state who left Coinbase in 2 not 2019, said during a
2:51
speech at Bitcoin Asia. And what does that mean when
2:54
Bitcoin wins, the Fed loses control.
2:57
It's such a great picture for that, such a such a fitting
3:01
picture. Bellagi who made headlines with
3:03
his incorrect $1 million Bitcoin price prediction in 2023, said
3:08
bitcoins fixed supply of 21 million will see the feds a
3:12
gyrating rates get replaced by algorithmic monetary policy.
3:16
Government debt continues to surge Quote this is the only.
3:20
This is only going to get worse as inflation picks up, Balaji
3:24
said, referencing referring to the US debt pile that ballooned
3:28
to $37 trillion this year falling out of control.
3:33
Control pandemic era spending feared to be spiraling into a
3:39
debt doom loop, as James Lavish calls it, as higher interest
3:43
rates force the government to print more money to service the
3:47
debt ceiling. You know, it would be really
3:49
cool to pull up Opti the block. Maybe we can reference that a
3:53
little bit later. So the article continues hedge
3:57
fund billionaire Ray Dalio, who isn't necessarily like a
4:01
hardcore bitcoiner. The founder of Bridgewater
4:04
Associates has warned that the spiring U.S. debt pile is quote
4:08
likely cause a debt induced heart attack in the relatively
4:13
near future. I would say three years give or
4:16
take a year or two. Dalia posting responses to
4:19
Financial Times questions on X after claiming it's reporting
4:23
had mischaracterized his position, pointing to the $1
4:26
trillion a year interest on the $37 trillion debt and 9 trillion
4:31
dollar $9 trillion needed to roll over the debt as squeezing
4:35
quote out other spending. The more that happens, the
4:38
closer the country is to a debt induced economic my heart
4:41
attack. According to Alio quote, the
4:44
federal government will spend about $7 trillion and take in
4:48
only about 5 trillion. So we'll have to sell an
4:51
addition additional roughly $2 trillion in debt.
4:54
We talk about this literally you hear you hear me say this every
4:58
single day. Now how are they able to do
5:01
that? They print the difference right
5:04
and and of course that causes inflation in addition to the $1
5:07
trillion it has to sell to pay interest plus the 9 trillion it
5:12
has to raise to roll over the debt.
5:14
The Federal Reserve, which is under attack from U.S.
5:17
President Donald Trump White House due to the Fed Chair
5:21
Jerome Powell's refusal to reduce interest rates, is widely
5:24
expected to restart its interest rate cutting cycle this month,
5:29
risking the Fed allowing inflation to run hot after
5:32
prices have begun to rise again over the summer.
5:35
Quote. This would lead bonds and the
5:37
dollar to go down in value and if not rectified would lead them
5:41
to being an ineffective store hold of wealth, which they
5:44
already are in my opinion, and breaking down the monetary order
5:48
as we know it. I mean, it's almost as if
5:50
bitcoiners are like 10 years early to like.
5:54
Do you think Dalio watch is simply Opti?
5:56
Dalio went on to predict the Bitcoin price and other
5:59
cryptocurrencies would likely to be a beneficiary of the Fed's
6:04
weakening of the US dollar. Scratch that, he definitely
6:07
does. Crypto is now an alternative
6:09
currency that has its supply limited.
6:11
So all things being equal, it's the supply of the dollar money
6:15
rises and or the demand for it falls that would likely make
6:18
crypto an attractive alternative currency.
6:21
This is nuts. This is crazy.
6:24
We went from Larry Fink being a skeptic, Michael Saylor being a
6:27
skeptic, President Trump being a skeptic, to now the famous
6:33
legendary investor Ray Dalio even saying like, look, when
6:39
push comes to shove, when they eventually turn on the money
6:42
printers again, you know bitcoins going to go to the
6:45
moon. He's saying the quiet part.
6:47
He's saying what all of us are saying.
6:49
He's saying what all of us have been saying for years now.
6:51
It you don't need a master's degree to be a master investor
6:55
to do the math, it's Infinity divided by 21 million.
6:58
It's very simple, straightforward math.
7:01
Anyways, quote. I think that most Fiat
7:04
currencies, especially with those with large debts, will
7:07
have problems being effective stores of store holds of wealth
7:11
and will go down in value relative to hard currencies.
7:15
This is what happened in the 1930s to 1940 period and the
7:19
1970 to 1988 eighty period. The 200 trillion dollar debt
7:25
spiral means the US can't stop printing, says Max Keiser.
7:29
Of course you guys all know who Max Keiser at this point is.
7:33
Max Keiser predicted that the gap between have nots and have
7:37
yachts will grow rapidly, leading to Bitcoin exploding to
7:41
a $2,000,000 price. We will.
7:44
We will also, but it's Opti. It's almost as if we know what
7:47
we're talking about. I know it's rising.
7:50
This is what I've been talking about, the rising and wealth
7:53
inequality. You're starting to see that on
7:55
social media you have very predominant figures calling for,
7:59
hey, listen, there's crazy wealth inequality.
8:01
You can't afford housing. You see that on right wing
8:04
commentary and on left wing commentary.
8:06
But I think where the left and the right both get it wrong is
8:09
they have it actually I from my understanding of of of their
8:15
content from what I've seen and Opti correct me if I'm wrong
8:17
here, if you believe it's any different.
8:19
I haven't seen any of them correctly identify the actual
8:23
problem with the system itself. And the solution is not more
8:27
government and it's not more politics.
8:29
It's fixing the money itself. The money itself being broken is
8:33
what's causing the inequality. The mechanism is very simple.
8:36
Every time they print money, people that own assets, they get
8:39
wealthier on paper. Everybody else who's living
8:42
paycheck to paycheck, they get poorer.
8:45
They're purchasing power in the money that they're earning
8:48
starts to go down and their savings in Fiat starts to go
8:53
down. The wealthy that do have that
8:54
disposable income to parking assets, those assets are going
8:58
to go through the roof once they start printing money, right?
9:01
It's that simple. Like that is literally the cause
9:04
of wealth inequality. Anyways, it goes on to say the
9:08
Fed and its chair, Jerome Powell have been sharply criticized by
9:11
I think I read that. But anyways, I continue to say
9:13
the Roby between Trump and the Fed has been brewing for years.
9:17
Accusations of political bias, beginning with Powell
9:20
incorrectly called incorrectly called post pandemic lockdown
9:25
inflation transitory. Remember that that was that was
9:28
really fun to cover. That's another thing simply
9:30
Bitcoin got right, dude. And it's crazy too, because when
9:33
that stuff was happening, me and Opti were like screaming, it's
9:35
like, dude, it's there's no way this is transitory.
9:38
And if you look at all of legacy media, right, the, the people in
9:43
the suits on TV with the Chiron's and the professional
9:46
for like professional production, they had Janet
9:49
Yellen on and and Janet Yellen's like, no, it's going to be
9:51
transitory and somehow, right? Some self-taught content
9:56
creators on YouTube, some that somehow we got it right and
9:59
everyone else got it wrong. Like, no, I, I just refuse to
10:02
believe that. I think it's just, it's a
10:04
system. They're trying to protect the
10:05
system. And I think if you take the
10:08
orange pill, if you're on a Bitcoin standard becomes
10:09
incredibly obvious what's going to happen, right?
10:12
I mean, it's written in the genesis block of brick in
10:15
Bitcoin like Satoshi knew, I think Satoshi in or Satoshi if
10:20
it was a group of people or one person.
10:22
I think he literally invented Bitcoin or discovered Bitcoin,
10:25
depending on how you look at it, as a reaction to the great
10:28
financial crisis of 2008, 2009. He knew that governments and the
10:32
banks were, are just going to continue to print money, right.
10:36
So if, if it like it's not, it's not rocket science.
10:39
Like at the end of the day, the Bitcoin white paper is like 9
10:41
pages. Like this isn't very difficult
10:43
to like, you can overcomplicate it and you can financialize it
10:47
and you can add financial ease and you can make, you can come
10:50
up with all these crazy, you know, and I think they do that
10:53
on purpose. So like, you know,
10:54
overcomplicate it and like intimidate people.
10:57
You know, it's like, oh, like, you know it, I'm sure the
11:00
money's backed by gold or something.
11:02
I think it is called the Federal Reserve.
11:03
Like it's meant for you not to ask questions questions.
11:06
But once you start looking behind the hood you realize
11:08
there's like nothing there and the money is literally just
11:11
paper, right? Anyhow, the article continues to
11:15
say, and I think this is another quote by Balaji, when Bitcoin
11:20
wins Fiat billionaires get flipped.
11:22
Years ago at Coinbase, we calculated that somewhere
11:25
between 100,000 and $1,000,000 per Bitcoin, half of the world's
11:29
billionaires are made-up of those that hold Bitcoin.
11:32
Quote all wealth become crypto, all property becomes
11:36
cryptography and that means global wealth becomes crypto.
11:39
And so that that's what we call the billionaire flipping and
11:43
that kind of already underway and you're going to see that in
11:46
the next few years. So what a fantastic article
11:50
starting Wednesday off strong, putting all these pieces
11:53
together that might not be there, but I mean, we got quotes
11:57
from Ray Dalio. We got quotes from Donald Trump,
12:00
we got quotes from Balaji and I. I want to pat us a pat ourselves
12:04
on the back a little bit. Opti dude.
12:06
Did we get things right? Tomorrow's Bitcoin news today
12:10
here at Simply Dude, it's almost as it.
12:13
Are we journalists at this point?
12:15
Like, should we? Do we get a journalist pin?
12:17
We get like a journalist pin. Do we get official journalist
12:20
credentialism here? Do we get?
12:21
How do we? How do we apply for?
12:22
That is that is that a thing 'cause like bro, like all of
12:25
those things in the article, like we, we were, if you guys
12:28
have been tuning the simply Bitcoin's been around for five
12:30
years at this point. If you guys have been tuning in
12:32
to the show, every single one of those things we got right.
12:35
Like I don't think we got one of those things wrong, Opti So
12:38
that's pretty dope. Opti, What's your take bro?
12:41
Yeah. So I mean, what I think it was
12:44
yesterday, was it yesterday? Yeah, Yeah, it was yesterday
12:48
where I was covering kind of what's going on in the bond
12:51
market and what's going on with gold.
12:53
And it really always kind of boils down to once you
12:57
understand Bitcoin like a a well enough understanding of where,
13:01
where Bitcoin's role is in the global landscape, you really
13:04
start to see the road ahead. And what's very interesting here
13:08
is I know Ray Dalio's kind of been on top of this, you know,
13:11
debt spiral for a while, But it does seem like more people are
13:15
waking up to this idea, or rather more people are
13:18
acknowledging this idea that is happening right now.
13:21
And we've been covering along on this for for months at this
13:24
point that we're slowly starting to see the erosion of trust in
13:27
the institutions, trust in the strength of the dollar, trust
13:31
maybe that it's losing its world reserve currency status and
13:34
people are looking for alternatives.
13:36
And now that's becoming even more clear to everyone.
13:38
That's not just a Bitcoiner. And that's, I think, I think on
13:42
the one hand very terrifying and on the other hand is like a very
13:45
promising move here is that people are seeing the same thing
13:48
that we are. So I know Nico's kind of
13:50
trolling a little bit here or rather patting themselves on the
13:53
back here. But like we have, we are looking
13:56
at this clearly, I think, and maybe it's confirmation bias and
14:00
maybe, you know, we're just seeing what we want to see in
14:03
this. But it does make me feel a
14:06
little better when I see other more influential people that
14:09
been around for a long time, you know, billionaires kind of
14:11
agreeing with what we're saying. Like, all right, maybe we do
14:13
have the right information here. And, and I mean, Ken and, and me
14:18
before the show, we, we were talking about this idea.
14:20
It's kind of off topic, but like we, we were talking about the
14:23
idea that right now it does seem like we're in a crazier time
14:27
than ever. And we're all kind of, if you're
14:29
being honest with yourself and, and you're following along on
14:32
everything, you're kind of looking at your own first
14:34
principles and you're wondering like, am I wrong here or is
14:38
everyone else wrong? Do I have to re evaluate my
14:41
first principles? Because things are going crazier
14:43
and they, they seem to be going off the haywire right now.
14:46
And the more information I see, the more it's kind of showing me
14:51
that, yeah, we, we are correct. But, you know, being early is
14:54
almost the same as being wrong right now.
14:57
So as much as we really probably don't know exactly the timeline
15:00
of what this stuff is going to do, we do know, I think at this
15:04
point, or rather are confirming that we, we do have the right
15:08
signal here. Now can we withstand whatever
15:11
crazy onslaught of a Black Swan madness that is upon us?
15:16
Who knows? Just hopefully we are staying
15:18
humble, staying solvent, you know, stacking stats throughout
15:21
this whole thing because they, they, it could go on longer than
15:24
we even know, but the point remains the same.
15:27
What Dalio's seeing, what a lot of us bit corners have seen,
15:29
especially like Lynn Alden, Larry Leopard is all the same
15:33
thing. The the debt right now is
15:35
unsustainable and what the government is doing in bond
15:39
right now is really not an incentive for people to use
15:44
treasuries as a store of value. And Ray Dalio hit on something
15:47
very, very clearly, which really blows my mind all the time is
15:50
like, how do people look at government debt as the best,
15:53
safest store of value? Like to me it, it just, it makes
15:56
no sense. It's like, how is debt a store
15:58
of value? By its definition isn't debt not
16:02
that. But you know, we live in clown
16:03
world. So government debt is the best
16:05
store of value. But as as Ray Dalio's kind of
16:08
pointing out that that kind of mimetic power is losing, losing
16:13
its strength that it used to and people are looking for
16:15
alternatives. And of course, we think Bitcoin
16:17
is that alternative. Now there is a kind of an
16:20
interesting end to this article or sorry, this tweet thread that
16:25
I think does kind of shed light on where we are right now.
16:29
So this is the last response to this Financial Times
16:34
questionnaire here. And they ask him like, what what
16:37
is the real threat to? And they they use it as American
16:40
capitalism right now. But I would, I would argue just
16:43
like the global capitalist system right now, like what are
16:46
the global threats right now? Like what, what are we looking
16:48
at and where should you kind of pay attention to?
16:51
And Ray Dalio, I think lays it out like very clearly.
16:55
And if you kind of go through all of these different metrics,
16:57
it makes perfect sense. So he says it come it comes down
17:00
to five forces that have always driven big cycle changes.
17:03
One, it's the big debt cycle cycle that will likely lead to a
17:07
big debt problem that will threaten the existing monetary
17:10
order. So one, we are seeing changes in
17:13
the monetary order. Obviously Bitcoin is is front
17:16
and center in this. It's it's one of the players in
17:18
this. Two, we're seeing big political
17:19
problems within countries that are threatening existing
17:22
political orders as we're seeing again, one's monetary orders.
17:25
Two, there seems to be a shift in the political order.
17:28
Three, it leads to the big geopolitical problems.
17:31
We're seeing geopolitical orders shifts around the world.
17:34
These are, you know, kind of the big main things people are
17:36
talking about. The next one, maybe I don't
17:39
agree with the with the framing, but he's saying, you know,
17:41
there's, there's environmental change that's going on and
17:44
that's always a factor historically and 5th, which is
17:47
where Bitcoin kind of comes back into it, though he frames it as
17:50
AI is there's a technological reordering going on right now.
17:55
And the interaction of these five forces will lead to huge,
17:58
unimaginable change over the next five years.
18:00
And so looking at those categories, it really kind of
18:04
explains Bitcoins role in all of this going on.
18:07
Like we are seeing a shift in the monetary order as you're
18:10
probably aware, there's a shift in the political order as well,
18:13
which leads to a geopolitical shift.
18:15
We're seeing, you know, play out everywhere right now.
18:18
The environmental one. It's kind of like I, I don't
18:20
know about all that. He, you know, he, he says the,
18:23
he says the C word here, which which I'm, I'm not the biggest
18:25
fan of, but we are seeing there is a technological shift
18:30
happening as well. He for references, AII think
18:33
Bitcoin is the bigger technological shift, which
18:35
really kind of goes full circle and it goes back to reshifting
18:38
the monetary order, which everything kind of comes down
18:41
afterwards. So it is interesting that the
18:43
first thing he kind of mentioned is the monetary order shift
18:47
going on, as we like to say, fix the money, fix the world.
18:50
You know, whether he did this on purpose or not, it goes back to
18:53
what Nico just said, like it all starts with the money and that's
18:57
why everything comes after that. Like whether he did that on
19:00
purpose or it just happened subconsciously, I find that very
19:03
interesting. So look, we are in interesting
19:06
times right now and who knows how long they can kick this can
19:09
down the road. But if you can understand what
19:12
Dalio's saying here, even just a little bit, you understand
19:16
Bitcoin is going to play a pivotal role.
19:18
And what's that mean for you guys holding Bitcoin?
19:21
It means numbers going to go up, guys, we all know, we all know
19:23
the mean, all roads lead to Bitcoin, which means number goes
19:27
up forever, Laura. So hey, just sit back, try not
19:30
to wreck yourself, try not to overthink yourself throughout
19:33
this process. But I think we have the signal
19:36
to really kind of capitalize on this, this, you know, 5 force
19:41
factors going on right now. And, and I think we're right
19:44
about it. But hey, as Kent and I said
19:47
before the show, things are getting crazier than ever.
19:50
So you, you got to find some Zen throughout this whole thing.
19:52
So enough of me speaking for Kent.
19:55
Kent, what's your thoughts when you hear this article or read
19:57
this article? Well, I, I just feel like the
20:00
entire Bitcoin community, especially you 2 need like
20:03
profit hats, right? Like this, this, this community
20:07
has just been on point since the beginning.
20:10
So I got my first Bitcoin the end of 2015, right?
20:13
So I'm a decade into this and what I've seen over and over
20:15
again is all of us are standing on the shoulder of the giants
20:18
that came before that adopted Bitcoin and started to see this
20:21
clearly. I mean how Finney talked about
20:23
Bitcoin like right after the first blocks were being mined
20:26
and he wrote out that he saw the price.
20:28
Addiction, you know, it could be a three or $400 trillion market
20:31
cap and that means, you know, multiple $1,000,000 per coin.
20:35
And we've seen so from the very beginning, the people that
20:38
cropped what money is and understood Bitcoin saw it as
20:42
money and saw its potential. And so all of us are just
20:45
sitting here like, hey dummies, like great, you made it to the
20:50
you made it to the big dance finally, like stop being idiots.
20:52
And the sooner you get here, the sooner we get past all this
20:55
global weirding that we're living through, because I think
20:57
we've fundamentally underestimated or overestimated
21:00
global warming and underestimated global weirding.
21:02
Because the reality is since 1971, when we divorced our money
21:07
from the laws of physics, we started to move into global
21:10
weirding. And I think it's been almost
21:12
like this enchantment that's gone over the populace.
21:15
It's just like, Oh yeah, money could just not be tied to
21:17
reality. And we can just have some crazy
21:19
politicians decide how many zeros are on the Ledger and
21:22
we're all going to be fine. And, and, and no, we're not
21:25
like, I'm sorry. Like when you detach yourself
21:26
from reality, bad things happen. And we're kind of getting to the
21:29
end of that. The problem is that we've
21:32
created an entire reality in this delusional state.
21:36
And as a result, Bitcoin comes along and it's like the spell
21:39
breaker, right? It's like like the first, like
21:42
as Bitcoiners, like if you look at who we are as a group and
21:45
population, like they've actually studied our personality
21:48
types, right? I don't know about you guys, but
21:50
I'm sure you know, Myers Briggs wise, you kind of fall in the
21:53
same major categories, which is INTP or INTJ.
21:56
And that's just a bunch of people that are disagreeable and
21:59
latch onto truth and don't let go.
22:01
And I think that that's what our community has done.
22:02
That's why we seem like crazies because we keep just chanting
22:05
like, hey, guess what? Bitcoin is reality.
22:07
And I'm sorry if you don't believe it, but you're going to
22:09
come around to it. And you see people like Ray
22:11
Dalio and you see Michael Saylor and they they make the flip and
22:15
then you see more people. And now it's becoming socially
22:18
acceptable. And this is the acceleration of
22:21
Bitcoin's adoption. So I mean, hang on to the ride,
22:23
you know, find your anchor in this reality, but just know that
22:26
this is what winning looks like. This is what getting past the
22:29
hangover of Fiat looks like is just a very weird phase.
22:33
And I think we're living through it.
22:35
It's going to be volatile. If you haven't seen the chart of
22:38
what gold's price did when Weimar Republic, you know, post
22:42
World War One, Germany went through a crazy inflation,
22:46
hyperinflationary time period. I'd say go study that gold to
22:50
Weimar mark chart, because what you see is the price goes like
22:53
this like massive, massive swings and I'm not going to be
22:56
surprised if we see it. I think this the, the price
22:59
action today is sort of just lulling us into complacency to a
23:03
degree, but I don't think we're done with volatility.
23:06
I, I mean, my prediction here is Triadfy is going to probably
23:09
learn the the hard way and have some massive blow UPS and we're
23:12
going to see volatility return and and the the major round of
23:16
volatility before the next wave of adoption occurs.
23:18
But you know, at the end of the day, when you realize that
23:22
Bitcoin is money and is the place that you should store the
23:25
value that you dedicate your life force to acquiring in the
23:29
marketplace, when you start to save in Bitcoin and realize that
23:33
that is the best form of savings, really, the the price
23:36
doesn't matter. Yes, you might need to sell some
23:39
to fund some specific life events, but at the end of the
23:42
day, it's not about price. It's just about securing your
23:45
savings and your your future and your family's future and your
23:47
bloodline's future and all that fun stuff that we like to really
23:50
freak out about as as a community.
23:52
But hey, stay, stay latched onto truth and we'll get through this
23:56
global weirding period and come out the other side as being kind
23:58
of the key makers is how I see it, because we're the ones that
24:01
pointed the way the entire time. Absolutely.
24:04
I love the way that you've you phrase that and it and it's
24:08
interesting because it's almost as if the more money has been
24:12
disconnected from reality, the more wacko the world has gone.
24:17
I think it like, and I think people underestimate how much of
24:21
the human experience is. And it sounds horrible saying
24:24
this because we always get taught this as as like young
24:27
kids like don't talk about money.
24:28
Money's very ugly. Me and Nopti literally talk
24:31
about money every single day. But but what they're referring
24:34
to, in my opinion, is they're referring to Fiat money, right?
24:39
Like I think they inherently knew that Fiat money is
24:42
inherently evil. But you know what happens when
24:46
that and and you saw and you can make an argument that you saw a
24:49
very similar, you saw a very similar pattern with with the
24:56
end of the Roman Empire, right? They went through the same
24:58
thing. They went through like a hype,
25:00
hyperinflationary type of situation.
25:02
They didn't have paper back then.
25:03
It was like more coins. But the actual silver content in
25:07
coins towards the end of the empire was like minimal, right?
25:11
And if you compare that towards the beginning of the empire, you
25:13
know, it was very high percentage, right?
25:16
So you kind of see the similar like, you know, pattern play out
25:22
and Kent, you're referencing Weimar earlier, right?
25:26
You could make an argument and this is a Bitcoin show, guys, on
25:29
a political show. So you know, I'm just going to
25:32
say it, but at the end of Weimar, you know, a lot of
25:34
people were talking about the moral decay of society, right?
25:38
You know, you look at modern day United States and you again,
25:44
this is a Bitcoin show, not a political show, but you know, a
25:47
lot of people are feeling that, you know, there there's a little
25:51
bit of a moral decay as well, right?
25:53
And could that be connected with the money, right?
25:56
Could that be connected with the fact that the more and more
26:00
money gets disconnected from reality, it kind of like breaks
26:03
people like, you know, like people's like there's a little
26:05
switch in people's minds and they're like, OK, but maybe
26:08
money just does actually grow on trees.
26:10
And like they have this whole worldview where money could just
26:13
be printed out of thin air and it could essentially pay for
26:16
everything. But, you know, if you're a
26:18
Bitcoiner, you know that that's not the truth.
26:20
You know that that's not the reality.
26:22
You know that, you know, that's not how you create wealth.
26:25
You don't create wealth by printing more money.
26:27
If that was, if that were true, you know, we'd all be like
26:29
trillionaires by now. You know, like that's not the
26:32
case, right? So, you know, it's a very
26:34
interesting situation in terms of kind of the US, the US, the
26:40
US government's fiscal situation.
26:43
And just to kind of give you guys like reference, you guys
26:47
understand the quantity of money that we're talking about, the
26:50
GDP of El Salvador's $32 billion, Thirty 2 billion,
26:56
right? The US government is spending 2
26:58
trillion, that's with AT every single year more than it
27:03
collects in tax revenue and it's 37 trillion, $37 trillion in
27:10
debt, 37 trillion, right. And just the interest alone,
27:15
which is what that article was referring to, just the interest
27:18
alone to service that debt to pay down the debt is $1
27:21
trillion. That's more than the GDP of most
27:25
countries on planet Earth. That is just being used to pay
27:29
the interest on that debt. Now the question is, is that
27:34
sustainable? Ray Dalio believes that's going
27:37
to break apart in the next three years.
27:39
And that's the that's the case that the article was trying to
27:42
make. Like it looks like this thing.
27:45
And you start to see the signs, right?
27:47
Like in France and the UK and the United States, the more you
27:52
kind of weave in the moral decay of society into there.
27:55
You see the symptoms. The symptoms are all there,
27:58
right? But I'll tell you what guys,
28:00
even as a Bitcoiner, even as I know that like if this system
28:04
starts to fall apart, you know, Bitcoin goes to $2,000,000 per
28:08
coin. If that happens in a very slow
28:10
amount, in a very small amount of time, I'm telling you, you
28:13
don't want that to happen. You don't want that to.
28:16
Things will not get pretty. And I tell, I'm telling you
28:19
right now that the first people they're going to target and the
28:23
first people that are going to blame are somehow it's our
28:28
fault, right? So I don't want that to happen.
28:31
I would actually, you know, I'd want this to be boring.
28:34
I want this like, you know, this transition to be a slow and
28:39
methodical process rather than like in a year, 2 years, Bitcoin
28:44
rips to $2,000,000 per coin because the global financial
28:48
system is melting down. Like that's not cool.
28:50
Like a lot of people are going to get hurt.
28:52
A lot of people are going to lose their jobs.
28:54
You know, a lot of people are going to lose their homes.
28:56
I don't want that to happen. I don't think anybody would want
28:58
that to happen, right? So I would rather want this
29:01
like, like slow trickle adoption of Bitcoin and then it, you
29:06
know, phases out Fiat currencies a little by little rather than
29:12
this like what this article is talking about.
29:14
And this isn't us being hyperbolic.
29:17
Like we're not saying that this is going to happen.
29:19
Like, this isn't our narrative. This is Ray Dalio's narrative,
29:23
OK? This is his theory, his opti.
29:26
Could you pull up that article that you were reading?
29:29
Because he said a couple good points there.
29:31
The the Twitter article, the last part, which is fantastic,
29:36
you know, and it's very interesting the way that he
29:39
phrased that. So this was a Financial Times
29:41
article I believe, right? Well, this is so in that Forbes
29:45
article. So Ray Dalio did an interview
29:48
with Financial Times, and he said they made it, like, super
29:51
political. They kind of picked and chose
29:53
what he said. And so he dropped the full thing
29:55
on Twitter. And it was just like a
29:57
questionnaire. And I guess they just, like,
29:59
misquoted him. And so he's like, I want to
30:01
clear the air because that's not what I said.
30:03
And so this is what it is on Twitter.
30:06
OK. So a couple things here which
30:09
are interesting, like if you go up on that question, could you
30:12
go up Opti, right. So is the real threat to
30:16
American capitalism coming from the far left or from Trump's
30:20
brand of interventionalism? Now that is a very loaded
30:24
question and I might not be a professional journalist, but I
30:28
sure do know about framings and narrative a little bit.
30:31
And what I will say is that question in and of itself is
30:37
trying to it. It it's, how do I phrase this?
30:45
It's basically forcing the person who's answering that
30:49
question to answer that question incorrectly.
30:54
Sorry, to answer the question on incorrect framing.
30:58
Why am I saying that? What is American capitalism,
31:03
right? Like, what does that mean?
31:05
Right, because depending on who you ask, right, if you ask a
31:09
Bitcoiner, if you ask Saifuddin, I'm sure if you ask Ken, I'm
31:12
sure if you ask Opti, like you don't have actual capitalism
31:17
today, you have crony capitalism.
31:19
And I've had very long discussions leading the answer.
31:23
I've had very long discussions with like Jeff Booth.
31:26
And the way that he phrases it is, is so fascinating.
31:29
He's like, Nico, listen, under the central banking system, you
31:34
don't understand, the far left and the far right are exactly
31:38
the same. I was like, what do you mean?
31:39
It's like, it's exactly the same thing.
31:42
It's the intervention of the state into the free markets,
31:48
right? That's literally what it is,
31:50
right? So again, it's like American
31:52
capitalism. What does that mean?
31:54
I would say that question is wrong because what is the other
31:59
like what is the other economic model to, to capitalism, right?
32:03
Like we know that doesn't work. We've tried that for 100 years.
32:06
It didn't really lead lead to good outcomes, right?
32:09
So the phrasing is like, look, is the far left a threat to it?
32:13
Is the far right? No, you know what the number one
32:15
threat to use their framing and everything to American
32:18
capitalism is the central Bank of the United States.
32:22
I would say that is the number one threat, not only to American
32:26
capitalism, to use their words, but just people in general,
32:34
right? The the dignity and the
32:37
well-being of the average everyday Joe in America.
32:41
You know what the the number one threat is?
32:44
It's not Trumpism and it's not the left.
32:48
It's literally the central bank. But of course, leave it to the
32:52
Financial Times, right? Literally the Fiat times, as we
32:56
like to call it here. It's simply Bitcoin that is no
32:58
friend of Bitcoin has attacked Bitcoin left and right to come
33:02
up with a question that is framed to ensure that the answer
33:08
to that question is contained. It gives you a certain worldview
33:13
because that that's a loaded question that that question's
33:15
incorrect that that I would have, I would have said, I
33:18
refuse to answer that question, that incorrect.
33:21
That question has incorrect framing.
33:23
I would say there is no such thing as American capitalism.
33:26
There's free market or massive state intervention.
33:30
Those are to the two economic models, top down economics or
33:33
the free market, Those are the two models, right?
33:36
We know the top down doesn't work very well.
33:38
Like there's history, we have the receipts there.
33:40
The free market works pretty well, right?
33:43
What is actually what is breaking down the free market?
33:47
What is What is taking away the social mobility that people have
33:51
in society? It's the central bank.
33:53
What is taking away the ability for people to afford homes?
33:57
It's the central bank. What is driving the massive
34:00
wealth inequality? I have to read Max Keiser's
34:03
quote here because it's absolutely hilarious.
34:06
There's the have nots and then the have yachts class.
34:10
What is driving that? It's the central bank.
34:13
So you got to answer that. You got to hit that question
34:16
dead on rather than you can't even accept the framing.
34:19
Someone asked me and I said no, no, no, no, no.
34:21
That framing is incorrect. That is a loaded leading
34:24
question. That is bad journalism.
34:27
You're trying to paint a certain narrative.
34:28
Kent, what are your thoughts bro?
34:31
Oh man, that's it. That's all pass though.
34:33
Then you get to answer whatever question if you like.
34:35
So I I wouldn't answer it, but I, I think you're totally right.
34:39
And I think this is, you know, Jeff Booth talks about it a lot
34:42
like how the existing, like Bitcoin is a different system.
34:47
And I, I very much believe you focus on building the new system
34:52
instead of fighting the existing one.
34:54
And as it becomes apparent that this is a better system, people
34:57
just naturally migrate, right? So that's where my energy and
35:00
effort is going. But I think Jeff Booth points it
35:04
out in a very accurate and succinct way that it is natural
35:08
if Bitcoin is a disruptor, A disruptor to the incumbent
35:12
system, that the incumbent system is going to fight to
35:15
maintain its relevance and its power and its tenacity, right?
35:18
And so it's going to attack this Bitcoin system.
35:21
And so I think it's natural actually.
35:23
And this is a natural outcome of that system.
35:25
The Fiat times, right? The Financial Times, like, you
35:29
know, you can't convince a man to go against how he's made all
35:33
his money and say that that that thing he's made it on, he
35:36
doesn't actually understand. I mean, I that's a massive ego
35:39
trap for most of Travfy. And it's the reason why these
35:42
like meek Bitcoin community folks are like, yeah, this is
35:45
actually money. It's because we haven't, we
35:47
don't have all that like trappings of Travfy.
35:49
And we can say I was wrong. I didn't understand what money
35:51
was. And now that I've studied
35:53
Bitcoin, like, yeah, that's just better money.
35:55
And so I'm going to adopt this instead of that.
35:57
You know, traditional finance can't do that because they built
36:01
an entire, you know, empire based on something that's
36:06
frankly A delusion. It's hard to admit that you've
36:08
built it on a delusion like more power to the the Michael Saylors
36:11
and the Ray Dalios of the world for doing so.
36:13
But at the end of the day, yes, that's just the existing system.
36:17
Like what you're talking about with that framing.
36:19
That's just the existing incumbent system trying to fight
36:22
to maintain control and relevancy.
36:24
And again, hats off to Ray Dalio for being transparent about the
36:27
entire interview instead of letting that article stand as
36:30
his so we can actually see what his words are and see that he
36:33
was actually like. Basically, his response was to
36:36
dodge the entire framing completely and say, look, this
36:39
is what always causes these cycles.
36:40
Now, you can argue about those particular causes, but at the
36:43
end of the day, and he just sidestepped it.
36:46
I think he's a smart enough dude that understood like this is,
36:49
this is Financial Times trying to bring me into a trap here.
36:52
And I'm going to, I'm going to skip it because I mean, at the
36:54
end of the day, American capitalism, that's a nonsensical
36:57
idea. Capitalism is capitalism.
36:59
I'm sorry and I'm sorry we don't actually have capitalism because
37:02
the means of production of money is absolutely contained within a
37:06
central body. If your means of production of
37:08
money, the fundamental good that goes in any transaction you
37:12
conduct is controlled by somebody else, that's not
37:16
capitalism. Sorry.
37:18
I'm sorry if you think it is. It's just not free markets that
37:21
we actually have to have free money to have free markets.
37:24
And it's very interesting that that Bitcoin is the thing that
37:28
actually breaks it. But the means of production of
37:31
Bitcoin anybody can participate in.
37:33
And this is what I think of as like the second zero to 1
37:36
innovation of Bitcoin. The first being the
37:38
decentralized, immutable, unsensible Ledger that we know
37:41
and love, but the second being a decentralized money printer.
37:44
Anybody that mines can actually generate their own Bitcoin.
37:47
All you got to do is follow the rules of the the network and you
37:49
can take part in the decentralized money printer of
37:52
Bitcoin. And so I think that it's it's
37:54
money that anybody can produce that actually is creating free
37:58
money that liberates capitalism. So it's a weird dynamic to where
38:02
it's like money produced in common is actually going to lead
38:06
to capitalism and free money again for the the public, which
38:10
we haven't had since we left the gold standard.
38:13
Absolutely. I think that's a really
38:14
important point. And I think that's why that
38:17
question is so tricky and it's so loaded is it's forcing you to
38:22
pick a side, right? It's like, is it the right or is
38:26
it the left that's breaking down capitalism?
38:28
And you're like, wait a second. No, no, no, no, you don't
38:30
understand. We, we live in a system of crony
38:33
capitalism. We don't, we don't live in a
38:36
capitalistic free market system. But again, as you said Kent, you
38:41
know their livelihoods depend spend on the Fiat system.
38:44
It's not called the Fiat times, the AKA Financial Times for no
38:47
reason, right? Anyways, guys, this is going to
38:50
be a fantastic show. We have so much to cover today.
38:53
We got Kent in the house. Kent is the CEO of SAS mining,
38:58
Bitcoin mining as a service. We're going to be talking about
39:00
that towards the end of the show.
39:02
So you guys are going to want. To see a little, we're, we're
39:04
going to switch it up a little bit, Kent.
39:06
We, we want to dive into the core knots debate a little bit.
39:10
We're going to get it from a miner's perspective.
39:12
And then of course, we'll talk SAS.
39:13
Oh, OK. Oh, this is going to be a spicy
39:16
episode. We're going to be giving away
39:17
some Sats as well towards the end of the show, So you guys are
39:20
going to want to stick around. And during the numbers, I got a
39:24
clip of Larry Leopard talking about basically what we've been
39:27
talking about the whole beginning of the show.
39:29
And then something interesting for you guys.
39:32
I saw this article in in the morning while Opti and I were
39:35
crafting in the in the simply crew.
39:37
We're crafting the show. And I saw this and I was like,
39:40
this is very interesting. But essentially the headline is
39:44
Bitcoin may break Red September cycle for the third consecutive
39:48
year. And guess what Opti was
39:51
celebrating this morning? He he went from nihilistic
39:54
fields to Optimus fields even though bitcoins only had 112 K.
39:59
I've never seen a smile that big on Optes face before.
40:02
Well, you shut me down. You're like, don't jinx it.
40:05
I'm so. I definitely think.
40:07
Don't jinxly think, guys, I'm thinking, I'm not going to say
40:11
it. I'm not going to say.
40:12
It so you guys are going to want to stay tuned for that.
40:15
We got an incredible show. We're going to be talking about
40:16
knots core again. Is it is it going to be a red
40:19
September a green September? We'll see about we'll we'll
40:22
check it out and then of course, saz mining and Larry Laparte.
40:25
So it's going to be a loaded show.
40:26
But before we jump into all that, I do want to give an
40:30
incredibly special shout out. Of course you guys know the deal
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41:37
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At the time of recording, the Bitcoin price is $112,380 block
43:20
height 913,042 sats per dollar, 890 sats per dollar.
43:26
Market cap 2.24 trillion Bitcoin versus gold Market cap 8.84%
43:33
Declined from all time high -9.8%.
43:37
Realize monetary inflation .84%. And the grand scheme of things,
43:42
Bitcoin continues to take Fiat currencies to absolute school.
43:45
They're trying to normalize 3% inflation.
43:48
Now, again, Bitcoin is just, you know, taking them to school.
43:52
I don't know what else to say. Anyways, here's the one, the
43:54
only legendary Larry Leopard. And guess what?
43:58
He's talking exactly what we were talking about in the
44:01
beginning of the show, Exactly what Ray Dalio was talking
44:04
about, exactly what Lynn Alden was talking about, exactly what
44:08
Max Keiser was talking about. I do that Max Keiser quote can't
44:11
get out of my head. The have knots and the have
44:14
yachts. That's effing hilarious.
44:16
Anyways, here's Larry Leopard. Let's check let's check out what
44:19
he has to say. And he of course he's talking
44:22
about the reset. This is exactly what Ray Dalio
44:24
was talking about. Ray Dalio predicts it's going to
44:26
happen in the next three years. I would say if that if that were
44:29
to come, if that were to come true, like The thing is like,
44:34
like, yeah, it would pump our bags like fantastic.
44:36
But like, I just I wouldn't be too happy about it.
44:39
Like it just would it like it wouldn't be nice.
44:42
Like it wouldn't be nice for most people don't hold Bitcoin.
44:44
Like that's the reality. Like if if everyone held
44:46
Bitcoin, it'd be a different story.
44:47
Most people don't hold Bitcoin. Most people still think Bitcoin
44:50
is a joke. OK, So like if the music, if the
44:53
if the if the music stops and you don't have a chair, like
44:56
that's not going to be too nice, right?
44:58
It's not going to be too nice. Anyways, here is Larry Lapard.
45:01
Let's check out what he has to say.
45:03
If we're in a sovereign debt crisis, and I think we are, and
45:05
if we're going to have a lot of inflation, I think we do.
45:08
And if we're going to go to have a monetary reset, they're going
45:11
to be real winners and losers. And, and you're not going to get
45:14
a do over, You know, you're, you're not going to get a do
45:17
over. It's not going to be like, oh
45:18
gosh, I missed it. Maybe I'll, you know, I mean,
45:20
it's like we could wake up one day and the government can say,
45:22
you know, we're going to a gold standard.
45:23
We're taking the price of gold up to $20,000.
45:25
We either own gold and gold mining stocks or you don't.
45:28
They're going to go enormously the same thing with Bitcoin.
45:31
I mean, you know, the US could say we're going to do a
45:32
strategic Bitcoin reserve and the Bitcoin price could triple.
45:36
Well, if you don't have any, you don't benefit from that.
45:38
So there will be, you know, because of the risk of monetary
45:42
debasement and the fact that there will be no do over.
45:45
I would just strongly encourage all of your listeners to have
45:49
some allocation of their wealth into things that the government
45:53
can't print. The government can't print gold,
45:56
government can't print silver, government can't print Bitcoin,
45:59
and the government can print dollars.
46:00
And they're going to print a shit load of dollars in my
46:03
opinion. I mean, is it like I think, I
46:10
think we might be on to something, bro, I don't know.
46:12
I'm just saying bro, just saying, just saying.
46:15
I just, I, you know, I don't ingest the Fiat propaganda
46:19
anymore. I ingest the Bitcoin propaganda
46:21
so. Yes we are right.
46:23
Adi QS for the win bro. The Adi 42 IQ anyone's chance?
46:30
Seriously, is it? Is it just a continuation of the
46:33
intro? Basically I should.
46:35
Have played that during the intro.
46:36
Yeah, I do want to kind of mention one thing that Larry
46:39
said, which I think is it's really like the big idea here is
46:46
like we do, as Kent was saying earlier, we do live in this kind
46:49
of like fantasy land right now, You know, especially when it
46:52
comes to like economics and finances and coming out of
46:55
politicians and stuff is like, everyone can win.
46:58
Like, you know, we can print money for, you know, whatever
47:01
problem we want to, and it's not going to affect you guys.
47:04
Just trust us a little more printing.
47:06
But when you hear Larry kind of explain, it's like guys, there
47:09
will be winners and losers. Like there are winners and
47:12
losers. This is like, I hate using the 0
47:15
sum game kind of, you know, perspective.
47:18
But if we do end up in a hyperinflationary scenario like
47:23
Allah Weimar Republic type stuff, like there will be real
47:27
losses here, like there will be real struggle.
47:30
And as Greg Foss was saying a long time ago, it's like Bitcoin
47:33
is isn't insurance on all of this craziness going on.
47:38
And we even have Larry Fink saying this now.
47:40
He's saying something very similar.
47:41
It's like if you don't trust your currency holding its value,
47:45
if you don't trust governments, you buy Bitcoin.
47:48
Like Bitcoin is the currency of not trusting.
47:50
Remember, I forget who it was. I think it might have been Larry
47:53
Fink as well, or it was like Warren Buffett or something.
47:55
Like Bitcoin is the money of, of, of not trusting.
47:59
And it, they kind of made it seem like a bad thing.
48:01
And it's like, no, that's what that's what it is.
48:03
It's like if you have no faith in these institutions, if you
48:06
have no faith in central banks controlling the currency, then
48:11
you buy Bitcoin and it is just, it's a very low hanging fruit.
48:15
It's like, look, that 1% you're putting into Bitcoin, if that
48:19
rest of that 99% of your wealth goes to 0, that's the one thing
48:22
that's gonna save you. Like it's a very low bar to
48:25
cross. It's like, I know Nico and I say
48:27
this on the show constantly of like, go, go all in on Bitcoin,
48:31
buy as much as you can. But we're young and we, we look
48:34
at the system a little different than people that are maybe more
48:37
entrenched in it. But if you are like just buying
48:41
a little bit could be the one thing that saves you.
48:43
And look, I, I don't like the fear monger here because, you
48:47
know, I, I just don't think it's really good taste.
48:49
It's more about like someone asked is like, are bit corners
48:52
wishing on the collapse of the Fiat system or are we preparing
48:54
for the Fiat system to collapse? And I would say, you know, it
48:57
depends who you ask. Some people are wishing to see
49:00
it collapse, acceleration, etcetera.
49:02
I think most of us are just kind of ensuring that if this does
49:06
come, we will be OK. Like we are here to just protect
49:09
ourselves because from all the data, from all the information,
49:13
it's not looking good. And who knows how long they can
49:16
kick this can down the road. But a little bit insurance goes
49:19
a long way. And that's kind of how this
49:21
Bitcoin thing should be looked out.
49:22
For most people, probably it's like there will be winners and
49:25
losers and you want to protect yourself today.
49:28
Absolutely, I completely agree with that.
49:30
Anyways, Kent, what's your take on this 'cause I, I feel like
49:33
the the 1st 50 minutes of this show has been basically the same
49:37
theme and and again, this wasn't a simply Bitcoin article, but
49:42
Forbes is even basically saying it.
49:45
But you know, if like I'm a common sense type of guy, right?
49:50
And if Ray Dalio, Lynn Alden, Lawrence Lepard, James Lavish
49:57
you just you just roll it out. These these hyper intelligent
50:01
people. I don't even think like that.
50:03
I'm like media. I like, I don't think my brain
50:05
doesn't even think in that that thing.
50:07
But if if we're all reaching the same conclusion, I mean, like,
50:14
even if you don't fully believe in Bitcoin, right, Like even if
50:17
you're just like, look like this is way too risky.
50:20
It's not backed by anything like what does it cost you to have a
50:26
1 to 2% insurance fund? Like what if, what if you're
50:30
wrong, right? That one to 2% could save that
50:35
98% that you just don't choose to allocate to Bitcoin like
50:39
that. That's what I would say at this
50:40
point, because we're all seeing the same thing like and
50:45
different layers of education, different layers of Polish,
50:49
different layers of intelligent, like different levels of
50:52
intelligence, but everyone is seeing the same thing we are.
50:57
It's it's incredibly obvious. And even Ray Gallio is coming to
51:02
the same conclusion. That layer of the part is coming
51:04
to that we're coming to, it's like look like when the system
51:07
breaks and governments are going to have to plague it to a hard
51:11
asset. Historically, that's been gold.
51:15
Maybe this time it's Bitcoin. You know, the prices of those
51:19
assets tend to rise. And are you going to get caught
51:22
holding the bag? That's the question, right?
51:24
Anyways, I'm going to pass it on to Kent and then we hit the
51:27
news. The news is going to be a little
51:28
bit more up, more bullish, I would say.
51:33
How does it get more bullish than this?
51:34
Nico, come on now. This is we're basically saying
51:36
go all in a Bitcoin and save yourself, right?
51:39
No, I'm, I'm teasing. I'm I'm, I'm if you didn't
51:41
notice, that was sarcasm. No, the way the way I look at it
51:44
is is I could summarize all of this by saying, you know, you
51:47
can choose to ignore gravity, but you can't really ignore the
51:50
effects of gravity. I'm sorry, even if you want to.
51:53
And I think economics has a direct impact on all of us,
51:58
whether we want to admit it or not.
52:00
It's considered a soft science, not a hard science.
52:02
And I, you know, I, in my mind, I've theorized, OK, Bitcoin
52:06
becomes the, the anchor in, in the economy over time, which I
52:10
believe is what's happening. And it's messy, nasty process to
52:14
get there. But if Bitcoin becomes like the
52:16
anchor in economics, does economics turn into a hard
52:20
science over time? Because now we've got a constant
52:22
with Bitcoin anchoring. The whole thing remains to be
52:24
seen. But I think the, the, the
52:26
fundamental point that Lawrence is saying there is like, get
52:32
something that's outside the system, get something that's
52:35
outside of human control, because if it's within human
52:38
control, it is natural for human systems of power to try to
52:42
maintain that power. And that's all that money
52:45
printing is about is they're trying to maintain control and
52:48
status. And it's, that's, it's all an
52:50
ego trapping game. And This is why like
52:52
fundamentally, like I love Bitcoin and, and they a hardcore
52:57
bitcoiner. I don't consider myself a maxi,
53:00
but what I want to see is human flourishing.
53:02
And what I've seen in my study of monetary history, which is
53:05
what you have to study to actually get to the point where
53:08
you realize, oh, Bitcoin is the best thing since sliced bread is
53:11
look, you look at the 5000 years of human history, and it's never
53:15
once ended well. When money printing has been
53:18
centralized, it always ends badly.
53:21
And guess what? The smartest, the brightest
53:23
people in the world, they wind up going towards the money
53:27
printer. I'm sorry, because they want to
53:29
somehow get close to that money printer, only the means of
53:31
production of that money printer.
53:33
And my God, if that's just not a drag for the entire human
53:36
species. When Bitcoin becomes the global
53:39
reserve asset, now suddenly all that human creativity gets
53:43
unlocked. We move past this Achilles heel
53:45
that we've had for 5000 frigging years and suddenly we can
53:48
actually have human flourishing because we've got savings that
53:51
we can stand on and know it's not going to erode in purchasing
53:54
power. And by the way, like all that
53:56
creativity that's gone towards, hey, how do I get close to the
53:59
money printer? How do I own the money printer
54:01
suddenly gets turned into, hey, I need to go actually produce
54:04
something of value out in the marketplace.
54:06
What does that actually do for us as a species?
54:09
So again, yes, this is the same theme at Nikko that we've been
54:12
talking about for a little while, but this is global
54:15
weirding that we're going through right now.
54:16
This is just what bitcoins adoption looks like.
54:19
And the other phase is going to the other side of this is going
54:21
to be amazing. But, you know, hang on to your
54:23
friends and family and, and and, you know, back down the hatches
54:26
while we get through this. Absolutely no, I completely
54:29
agree with you, man. It's, it's, it's definitely
54:31
going to be. I look again, it's not rocket
54:35
science. If you use common sense, if you
54:37
pay attention to the symptoms, you pay attention to what's
54:40
going on. Again, I think a 1% insurance
54:46
fund isn't going to, you know, isn't going to, there's not a
54:50
big risk to you. And then just in case, like
54:53
look, like even if you say, OK, maybe there's, there's a half a
54:56
percent chance that these bozos are right.
55:00
OK, there's a half a percent chance that these, you know,
55:03
these generous these No, but I mean, like, bro, I'm trying to
55:07
I'm trying to play devil's advocate, OK, maybe maybe Ray
55:11
Dalio and Larry Leopard and Lynn Alden and Nico and Opti and Ken
55:16
and all these bitcoiners. Maybe there's like a half a
55:19
percent chance they're right, right.
55:21
Maybe I'm just going to allocate half a percent into Bitcoin,
55:26
right, Like maybe, maybe right. And I think that's the case that
55:28
Larry was trying to make anyways, guys, it's going to be
55:30
an incredible show. We still got the news segment
55:33
lined up for you guys and the culture.
55:34
We're going to be doing a little bit of a core verse knots
55:37
debate. We're also going to be talking
55:39
about SAS mining, Bitcoin mining as a service, one of the best
55:42
ways to acquire wild SAS or the best way to acquire wild SAS.
55:47
And also let's talk about September, October, October,
55:52
September, September sent timber.
55:56
We just made-up a word. That's right.
55:57
Air horns, please. Air horns, air horns, September.
56:02
So it's going to be an incredible show.
56:03
There's 540 of you guys watching live on YouTube almost 100 of
56:07
you guys watching live on on Rumble and I don't know how oh
56:14
1600 of you guys watching live on X.
56:16
If you guys are enjoying the show so far, make sure to smash
56:18
that like button share the video.
56:20
It's going to be a great show. We have a special guest today.
56:23
We have the CEO of SAS mining. We have Kent in the house, so
56:27
you guys are going to want to stay tuned.
56:29
We got a loaded show for you guys.
56:30
We're going to be right back in just a little bit.
56:34
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on the store. Anyways, a quick update from our
59:04
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59:07
I've just completed phase two of its Iguazu project in Paraguay
59:12
ahead of schedule. Their global hash rate is now 18
59:15
XA hashes. They're producing 8.5 BTC a day
59:19
and it's powered by a 200 MW hydro energy from Itapu Dam.
59:24
Phrase 3 is currently underway, targeting 25 EXA hashes and 12
59:29
BTC per day production by Thanksgiving.
59:32
Go check out the ticker HIVE at on the NASDAQ if you want to
59:37
find out more about Hive. Anyways, so the the day's news.
59:44
Opti just came up with the word sent timber.
59:47
Oh my God, is it even the thing? I don't know.
59:50
We shall see. But this article makes a really
59:53
good case for it. We're only three days in, so
59:56
maybe, you know, we're counting. We're counting the chickens too
1:00:00
early. I don't.
1:00:00
And I guess that's the phrase. I don't know.
1:00:02
Counting the eggs, counting your, my wife's, my wife's.
1:00:06
Look at me counting your eggs before they hatch.
1:00:08
I guess that's the phrase. Something about Rooster 2, I
1:00:11
think, is in there anyways. Bitcoin.
1:00:17
Bitcoin just broke a three-year streak of ugly summer returns,
1:00:21
but now we're stepping into its most dangerous month.
1:00:25
Read September if you've been around.
1:00:29
If you've been around long enough, you know the reputation
1:00:32
that September has about being Bitcoin's worst month on average
1:00:38
over the last decade. And it's not just bad luck.
1:00:40
Big events hit in this month. China.
1:00:43
China's ICO ban in 2017, their mining ban in 2021 both slammed
1:00:49
the market and left scars. From 2017 to 2022, it was
1:00:54
straight. It was six straight years of Red
1:00:57
September's. I blame Opti, but that streak
1:01:01
finally sapped snapped in 2023 when a federal court smacked
1:01:07
down the SEC over Grayscale's Bitcoin ETF bid.
1:01:11
That ruling carried into September and we actually closed
1:01:15
green. Then in 2024, Bitcoin had its
1:01:18
best September ever, up more than 7%.
1:01:21
That same month, the Fed cut rates, ETF exploded with volume,
1:01:26
and Trump aligned World Liberty Financial launch.
1:01:30
Now here's the kicker. September isn't just a Bitcoin
1:01:34
thing, It's the weakest month for the S&P 502.
1:01:38
Investors came back from summer and risk off mode.
1:01:42
They're hungover. They've had too much sun.
1:01:44
They're sunburned. They're sick of Opti.
1:01:46
They're not tuning into simply Bitcoin.
1:01:48
They're selling their corn, right?
1:01:50
That's what's happening in summers, and funds rebalance
1:01:54
before the year end and my markets tighten up.
1:01:57
But history also shows that once September passes, October flips
1:02:02
the script, the famous October. And that's why we call it
1:02:06
October 1 of Bitcoins best months, second only to November.
1:02:12
So heading into September of 2025, the setup looks a little
1:02:16
bit different than than past down cycles.
1:02:19
ETFs are pulling in billions. These treasury companies are
1:02:23
pulling in. They're raising 10s of millions,
1:02:26
hundreds of millions of dollars to buy more corn.
1:02:29
Companies are stacking sats on their balance sheet.
1:02:32
And most importantly, I think this is the signal out of this
1:02:35
entire article. the Fed just shifted dovish.
1:02:40
Another rate cut is expected mid.
1:02:43
Thank you Opti. Nico can't read hashtag.
1:02:46
Nico can't read September. The chickens come home to roost.
1:02:50
I got it, I got it. That's the saying anyways.
1:02:54
Another rate cut is expected mid month.
1:02:57
If that happens, Bitcoin might finally break the red September
1:03:02
curse. AK the Opti curse once and for
1:03:06
all. So I want to get everyone's
1:03:07
thoughts on this. Kent, I'm going to start with
1:03:10
you. What are your, what are your
1:03:14
expectations for September? Is it going to be a red
1:03:17
September or you know, are you looking because it, it, what are
1:03:22
the, the odd, the odd markets? Opti, right?
1:03:24
It's like it's like 90% plus that the Fed cuts in
1:03:29
mid-september, right? And the moment that happens,
1:03:31
like the markets going to shoot up like that's going to like
1:03:34
that's inevitable. So we might have a September
1:03:39
trademarked by Opti, of course. So Ken, I want to get your
1:03:42
thoughts on that. Oh man, price predictions, I
1:03:46
will say are not my bag. But I will say if I look at the
1:03:49
the landscape of events this month from a macro standpoint,
1:03:53
yeah, I'll leave more bullish than bearish.
1:03:55
And I also think too that just in general with Bitcoin, what
1:03:58
I've noticed is that you're better to bet on the contrarian
1:04:02
side than on the on the group think side generally.
1:04:05
And then the group think side of this has been it's it's it's
1:04:09
down, right. Everybody has oh, bitcoins worst
1:04:11
month is September. So it just feels like the trade
1:04:14
is weighted to the negative right now, which means it's it's
1:04:17
another another bullish reason from where I said it pays to be
1:04:21
a contrarian. But in general, when I look at
1:04:23
this like, yeah, in in on Jackson Hole, right, Powell came
1:04:28
out saying, hey, maybe we need to push on, on, on that 2% and,
1:04:32
and, and shove on it. And yeah, we're not really going
1:04:35
to target 2% anymore. And to me actually, I was
1:04:37
surprised the market didn't get more bullish on that because to
1:04:39
me that was like basically the feds saying, cool, we're going
1:04:42
to let interest rates rise and or not interest rates, excuse
1:04:48
me, inflation rise here instead of trying to keep it targeted.
1:04:52
So at the end of the day, I see that the Fed is pivoting here.
1:04:55
I think tremendous pressure by Trump and that all just means
1:04:59
liquidity in the market. More printing money printer goes
1:05:02
Burr, Bitcoin goes up, right? I think the biggest surprise for
1:05:06
me has been like the four year price cycle.
1:05:09
Like I see none of the euphoria that traditionally we have
1:05:13
experienced in the last two cycles, this being my third.
1:05:17
And it suggests to me actually that the four year price cycle
1:05:20
is likely not happening. I mean, I could be proven wrong
1:05:24
here in, in October, November, December.
1:05:27
But you know, that's traditionally when we see the
1:05:29
top. And the fact that we have 0
1:05:30
euphoria in the market right now is suggestive to me that we're
1:05:34
pushing out into something different and something longer.
1:05:37
So, you know, hang on, let's see where we go.
1:05:40
But certainly getting liquidity in the market and the fact that
1:05:43
gold is already broke out, that's usually another leading
1:05:46
indicator is suggested that we're going to break the trend
1:05:49
that September is a down month and we'll go up and to the right
1:05:52
here. Yeah, man, I'm I'm I'm I'm
1:05:55
excited. Let's see, I'm the most what I'm
1:05:57
the most excited for Cat and I agree with you, right.
1:06:01
The price once you start getting to price, I mean, even at this
1:06:03
point, Brian Armstrong is throwing price predictions.
1:06:06
Like I think every everyone's so bored.
1:06:08
Everyone's like 500 K but Opti. I'll pass it to you, bro.
1:06:12
Like I'll pass it to you, dude. I mean, you just coined the term
1:06:18
that might be as famous as I, I think you just coined a term
1:06:21
that might be as famous as Hodel 10 years from now.
1:06:24
This might be a legendary September.
1:06:28
And the optimist fields created that that term.
1:06:33
Are you, are you feeling September, bro, 'cause I heard
1:06:35
you this morning. I saw that smile on your face.
1:06:37
It was a real smile. I saw the optimism fill you up
1:06:41
again with joy. That nihilism, I saw it just
1:06:44
just leave your body. I saw it just leave and I just
1:06:48
saw you smile again. Is the optimism back?
1:06:51
Where is the optim? Because I know there's like, you
1:06:53
know, the, the, the fear and the euphoria meter or whatever, the
1:06:57
fear and greed meter. Where is the opti nihilistic
1:07:00
meter? Where is it?
1:07:01
Is it on is in the middle between nihilism and optimism?
1:07:05
Is it more optimism than nihilism?
1:07:07
Is it an opti bull? Or is it?
1:07:09
Is it an Opti bear? I'm feeling bullish guys.
1:07:14
I'm I'm feeling bullish. And then Nico, Nico yelled at me
1:07:18
and he's like, don't jinx it. And I'm like, dude, I'm in a
1:07:20
meeting with. You like just gonna listen to
1:07:23
this? What are you dumping on the
1:07:24
market? But I was trolling this morning.
1:07:27
You know, Bitcoin's back at 1:12 and it was like price is not
1:07:31
seen for like a week. And I know personally my
1:07:35
sentiment has been shifting like perfectly aligned with the price
1:07:40
movement right now. Dude, 100 million Bitcoin 2026
1:07:45
for sure. No, but I mean, look, I think
1:07:50
what Kent is saying is it that's kind of the vibe I'm getting as
1:07:54
well. It does seem like the cycles are
1:07:57
changing, the market structure is changing.
1:07:59
And I've laid this out on the show multiple times in in
1:08:02
various different scenarios that it does feel like the, I don't
1:08:05
know if the halving cycle is over per SE or if it's the
1:08:08
business cycle as people been saying, but the market structure
1:08:12
of Bitcoin does seem different. So I wouldn't be surprised if we
1:08:16
do have a, a bullish September. I'm I'm really like, I really do
1:08:22
believe that Q4 is going to be an insane time here.
1:08:26
Like that's the vibe I've been leaning towards it just
1:08:29
everything is aligning in our favor in in the sense of like
1:08:34
what Ray Dalio's saying, you know, they're these rate cuts
1:08:36
seem to be eminent. Last time we got some rate cuts
1:08:40
2024, the price started pumping and it seems like that's where
1:08:44
we're going and so would I be surprised if September doesn't
1:08:49
yeah, I'm like the Chuck Norris of the price I actually it's the
1:08:52
inverse they've. Been behind the handle dropping.
1:08:55
Choir I'm the inverse. Opti so if I'm bullish, it's
1:08:59
going to dump and if I am bearish, it's going to dump.
1:09:02
So that's just how it works. But yeah, I, I think September,
1:09:06
it's, it's like what we've been saying, it's going to end up
1:09:09
probably an incredible well, it, it's not gonna maybe like
1:09:13
incredible month, but it won't be a red month.
1:09:16
And on the one hand, let me see what's this guys?
1:09:21
It's raining out here. It's pouring right now.
1:09:24
OK, I had to run off. Yeah, that's why I had to run
1:09:26
off. I left my window.
1:09:28
My car window's down and so I'm wet.
1:09:30
I had to run out there because my car was getting wet anyways,
1:09:34
I, I, I am thinking it's, it's going, it's not going to be a
1:09:37
bad September. Yes, it's probably not going to
1:09:41
be where we really get lift off, but I don't think it's going to
1:09:45
be a bad September. It does seem that the markets
1:09:48
are pricing in a rate cut. So that should be pretty bullish
1:09:52
here. And considering that Bitcoin has
1:09:54
been above 100K for over 100 days, the market has been able
1:09:58
to basically eat up a these huge tranches of coins that are being
1:10:04
dropped onto the exchanges. Everything is starting to feel
1:10:08
bullish. And yeah, so when I saw 112 this
1:10:10
morning, I did feel more bullish than I did what, on Monday?
1:10:14
Because we dropped over the weekend to what was it 108 or
1:10:17
something like that. So yeah, it it I think we're
1:10:21
gonna start ripping then. Yeah.
1:10:22
But what do I know? I this is this is my gut
1:10:25
feeling. We are, we are, we're breaking
1:10:27
out of a putting my THR boy on from what I'm what I'm seeing,
1:10:31
we're breaking out of a descending triangle here and we
1:10:35
are getting set up for a cool Q4 of 2025 S yeah, 100 million
1:10:40
coming in six months. Yeah, wow.
1:10:48
Yeah, 100 million. Anyways, guys, I do want to give
1:10:52
a very special shout out to one of our partners.
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All right, everybody, no more delay.
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Let's go into the culture segment.
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We have tons to talk about. We're going to have a knots
1:11:58
versus core debate and also we're going to be talking about
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SaaS mining, Bitcoin mining as a service.
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All. Right, everybody, we are back.
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Before we go into the culture segment, we're going to be
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today. All right, Opti, I'm so excited
1:14:47
Bitcoin core verse nots debate. It's happening and we got Kent
1:14:52
in the house. I'm excited I'm excited man,
1:14:54
because this is getting heated on on on Twitter, bro Adam backs
1:14:59
jumping in Bitcoin mechanics jumping in Luke dash is jumping
1:15:03
in people are calling them like it's getting like nasty bro and
1:15:07
people are like you should make a video about it.
1:15:09
We totally made a Sophie made a video about this, but.
1:15:12
And, and we talked about it months ago and then we seem like
1:15:15
anything's but there has been heated, heated debates.
1:15:18
Now, dude, they're throwing tomatoes and then at like 17% of
1:15:22
the Bitcoin network, a network now represents knots.
1:15:27
And like, it's, it's a whole thing, bro.
1:15:29
It's a whole thing. So whatever we say right now is
1:15:33
probably going to piss some people off in the audience cuz
1:15:35
there's team core and there's team knots.
1:15:37
So, yeah, yeah, so. As Nika said, you guys have been
1:15:42
asking for this and I was planning on doing it at some
1:15:47
point. And then Kent came on.
1:15:48
He's like, what if we talk about this?
1:15:50
And so literally last night, I jumped on the phone with one of
1:15:52
my personal mining friends and we chat about it.
1:15:56
And so I think it is great we have Kent here from a miner's
1:15:59
perspective because there has been a lot of conversations from
1:16:02
like a node runner's perspective.
1:16:04
So I'm sure you guys are are caught up with the debate.
1:16:07
You guys are probably on Twitter.
1:16:08
But so Kent, not to put you on the spot here, but maybe let's
1:16:12
start with like what the overview kind of debate is.
1:16:16
And then from your vantage point as a miner, what is your
1:16:19
perspective? Well, I think, yeah.
1:16:22
So I, I brought this up because it does feel like it's getting
1:16:25
super heated out there on Twitter.
1:16:28
And you've got, you know, some of the most influential voices
1:16:31
are starting to weigh in. And I, I fundamentally think it
1:16:34
does matter, but I'm not sure it mattered.
1:16:37
Like there's a lot of talking past each other.
1:16:39
Like there's different levels to like this conversation.
1:16:43
And for me, I, I come at it first and foremost as a
1:16:46
Bitcoiner, right? What does that mean?
1:16:49
It means Bitcoin is money. And I'm here for the separation
1:16:52
of money and state in the advancement of human
1:16:54
flourishing, right? And so everything that is not
1:16:58
monetary related for Bitcoin to me is it shouldn't be dealt with
1:17:02
now like Bitcoin. I love the comparison of the
1:17:07
Milan Cathedral. So not many people know this,
1:17:09
but the Milan Cathedral took 600 years to build.
1:17:12
And for me, Bitcoin is our Milan Cathedral.
1:17:16
And that means that we need to have a very long time frame and
1:17:18
the decisions that we make. And if you look at the decisions
1:17:22
that we're making right now, I don't believe that we are taking
1:17:26
that that type of a time frame. It's our project, it's for our
1:17:29
ancestors down the line. But we have to like hold the
1:17:32
line and make sure that the decisions we make keep Bitcoin
1:17:36
as a safe store of value first and foremost.
1:17:39
So everything that's a use case other than money is not for me.
1:17:43
So that's my bias, right, right. But at the end of the day, the
1:17:46
change right now, if you really want to summarize it in a very,
1:17:49
very simple way from a Bitcoin or perspective, kind of comes
1:17:52
down to there's been a fence that's out there and core wants
1:17:58
to remove that fence because they're saying that that fence
1:18:00
is no longer effective. And I'm I'm kind of of the age
1:18:03
of my life now where I don't really want to see any fences
1:18:06
removed until I've studied and understood why that fence was
1:18:09
there in the 1st place. And as I've studied why this
1:18:12
fence is there in the 1st place from a Bitcoiner perspective, it
1:18:16
does not advance the the goal of making Bitcoin the best form of
1:18:21
money that humanity's ever seen. So I am not pro the change that
1:18:25
core is making here. And as a result, from the
1:18:30
vantage point of the Kent Bitcoiner, I'm adopting knots on
1:18:35
my side, not because I think that knots is technically
1:18:38
superior or anything else. The only reason why is is as
1:18:42
kind of a political vote in our ecosystem that hey, look, I
1:18:45
don't think we should remove that fence.
1:18:47
Full stop. That's it.
1:18:48
Does that make me like pro ossification?
1:18:50
I don't think so. I just means like, I don't think
1:18:52
that we should remove a fence, especially when in the Bitcoin
1:18:55
community, we've kind of believe that Bitcoin is consensus driven
1:18:59
code here. And I know that this is does not
1:19:02
affect the consensus. So I'm not arguing at a
1:19:04
technical level. I'm arguing from a spirit of
1:19:09
Bitcoin level, right. So let me draw an analogy that
1:19:11
I, I used recently when I was talking to somebody else about
1:19:14
this particular thing. When it comes to the US
1:19:16
Constitution, there's roughly 2 groups of stall scholars that
1:19:21
study it and argue in court over court cases related to the US
1:19:24
Constitutional code. There's the spirit of the law
1:19:27
scholars and there's the letter of the law scholars.
1:19:29
And if you apply that, that lens to the, this particular debate,
1:19:34
which I think is the most contentious debate since the
1:19:37
block size wars, what you see is that the spirit of the law is
1:19:42
and the letter of the law of people are talking right past
1:19:44
each other and the letter of the law are the very technical
1:19:46
people see it. There's no point.
1:19:48
This fence doesn't do anything. We should remove it.
1:19:50
Like it just cleans up the code and the spirit of a lot of
1:19:52
people are saying, look, man, you just haven't studied why
1:19:54
this fence is there in the 1st place.
1:19:56
Like it just seems like, hey, why remove something that
1:19:58
doesn't seem like it's broke? And so they're talking past each
1:20:02
other, but I think at the end of the day, the spirit of a lot of
1:20:04
people, that's where I land have the voice on this one, which is
1:20:08
ultimately like, hey, it's working.
1:20:11
Like we don't need to change something.
1:20:13
By the way, it's very contentious.
1:20:14
So the other part about this whole thing, this I have to
1:20:19
reflect the personal experience that I had that has me
1:20:22
questioning and and actually Jeff Booth kind of touched on
1:20:25
this in a recent talk about it where he's kind of come out on
1:20:27
the side of of Nazis as well here.
1:20:30
Because he has come out and said, look, there is always
1:20:33
going to be a moment in time where implementations of
1:20:36
bitcoins were going to try to be input, infiltrated by state
1:20:40
actors who are going to try to run this this project off the
1:20:44
rails. Maybe it's now, maybe it's not,
1:20:46
but it's a health thing that there's multiple implementations
1:20:49
that are coming about as a result of this contentious
1:20:52
situation. So you can see the immune system
1:20:56
Bitcoin sort of bubbling up here and now we've got, I think it's
1:20:59
up closer to 20% at this point, fellas, 19% last I looked of
1:21:05
Bitcoin network is now running on knots versus core.
1:21:08
But what I think we're seeing is ultimately a decision that the
1:21:12
Bitcoin community is coming to, which is, hey, look, this is
1:21:16
more money than it is, than it is for any other purpose, this
1:21:21
distributed Ledger. And so I think this entire
1:21:24
debate, while it's contentious and it's annoying and Bitcoin
1:21:27
will ultimately survive, I think it's actually necessary for us
1:21:31
to come back to what the roots of Bitcoin is, which this is a
1:21:34
monetary driven project. So I'm for it.
1:21:38
But when I, I, I look at all the contention and the way people
1:21:41
are treating each other in this debate.
1:21:43
Yeah, I'm, I'm not for that. People are really getting quite
1:21:46
personal and aggressive and nasty with one another.
1:21:48
And I, I don't think it's, it's right.
1:21:50
I mean, just vote by choosing which code to run on your node.
1:21:54
I mean, if you agree with me, go run knots.
1:21:56
If you don't agree with me, go # sand and run core, right.
1:21:59
But I think at the end of the day, what we're going to see is,
1:22:01
I think you've mentioned this too, obviously before the show
1:22:03
is a lot of people just aren't going to upgrade.
1:22:05
They're just going to wait and see.
1:22:06
And that's a healthy decision as well.
1:22:08
But ultimately we're getting closer to ossification, we're
1:22:11
getting more implementations of Bitcoin, and this is just the
1:22:14
way the immune system of Bitcoin transforms.
1:22:19
But back to the personal story I started to mention.
1:22:21
So I used to run a Bitcoin meet up in Portugal and it was about
1:22:25
an hour outside of Lisbon, so kind of the countryside really.
1:22:28
And I ran it for about four or six months and I was getting
1:22:31
four to six people, you know, once a month would show up.
1:22:33
And it was the only Bitcoin only meet up that was occurring in
1:22:36
Portugal at this time, like circa 2019-2020.
1:22:40
And I had this younger dude show up at one of the meetings and he
1:22:44
came in and got to know him a little bit, hey, why are you
1:22:46
here and asking questions And realized he was candid.
1:22:49
He said, yeah, I work for a three letter agency.
1:22:51
And, you know, I kept asking questions and realized he was
1:22:54
basically there to check out our meet up.
1:22:56
And and you know, I politely told him, hey, glad he checked
1:23:00
this out. I'm glad you see that there's
1:23:02
nothing nefarious, just some, some some folks that like
1:23:05
Bitcoin that are breaking bread together.
1:23:07
But you know, get the heck out of here and don't come back.
1:23:10
I, I don't, this is my meet up. I don't really like 3 letter
1:23:13
agencies snooping about. So he didn't ever come back.
1:23:17
But that always that, that, that cast a shadow in the back of my
1:23:20
mind on what is possible within our community.
1:23:23
And I cast no aspersions on any actors here because there's
1:23:27
enough going towards both camps. But I think if we as a community
1:23:30
aren't paranoid to some degree and, and, and we allow ourselves
1:23:35
to be naive about the influence of state actors here, I think
1:23:38
that's to our detriment. So, you know, take heart that
1:23:41
this is like what you're you're seeing out there is just part of
1:23:44
Bitcoins natural like immune system response at the social
1:23:48
layer to, you know, create multiple implementations if we
1:23:51
feel like there's a threat and Bitcoin will ultimately survive.
1:23:55
But I do think although it will survive, it still has to be
1:23:58
fought for. And so I think a choice does
1:24:01
have to be made. You got to come down one side or
1:24:02
the other. And even if you're on the wrong
1:24:04
side, when it's all said and done, which maybe I am, I think
1:24:08
at the end of this, there will need to be a comeback together
1:24:12
and recognition from one side of hey, you were wrong and, and we
1:24:16
were right and just, you know, we've, we've admitted it before
1:24:19
that we were wrong. You had to if you adopted
1:24:21
Bitcoin because it meant that you didn't understand money.
1:24:24
But I think that that's going to have to happen here.
1:24:26
So either that or it's going to lead to a hard fork and be like
1:24:29
geek cash and and Bitcoin at some point.
1:24:32
So we could get to that level. I don't think it will, but I do
1:24:36
think that is meaningful. The adoption of knots here,
1:24:38
that's a clear market signal that there's a big contention
1:24:43
within the community over what core is doing.
1:24:45
And so I do think it needs to be taken seriously.
1:24:48
So if you're running a node, you're choosing with what code
1:24:52
you're running right now which side this particular debate you
1:24:56
land on. Absolutely.
1:24:59
Yeah. So beautifully put.
1:25:00
Can and I agree. This is healthy for the
1:25:03
community. This debate is healthy.
1:25:06
This is what bitcoins all about. And now it I think the debate is
1:25:10
taking on a whole other level where you have community
1:25:14
heavyweights really, really spending a lot of time making
1:25:18
their voice heard. I saw Adam Back and and Luke
1:25:21
Dash just going back and forth. So yeah, I mean, this spin, this
1:25:25
has been a hot button issue for a while.
1:25:28
I asked you guys in the, in the poll, only 26 of you guys have
1:25:33
voted, but 77% of the 26 that have voted apparently are
1:25:38
running knots and 23% are running core.
1:25:42
And I have asked, I've have asked you guys publicly before,
1:25:46
what percentage of you guys are running nodes?
1:25:48
About 25% of listeners are running nodes every single time
1:25:51
we run a poll on this. And I want to go back to
1:25:54
something that Kent was saying. If you aren't running a node,
1:25:57
you don't have a vote, right? You're that vote is by the
1:26:02
wallet or the exchange or whatever.
1:26:04
They're voting on your behalf and you don't even know what
1:26:07
they're running, right? So it's incredibly important to
1:26:11
run a node, especially if you own Bitcoin.
1:26:13
If you have Bitcoin in self custody and you're transacting
1:26:17
Bitcoin, you should be you should be running your own node
1:26:20
like you should be verifying your own transactions.
1:26:23
You have, you should have your own copy of the Bitcoin
1:26:25
blockchain. You should have you should
1:26:27
decide what version of Bitcoin you want to run.
1:26:30
You know, again, like the the awesome part about Bitcoin is
1:26:34
that it's your choice and you don't have to explain it to
1:26:36
everybody why you're running that right?
1:26:39
And everyone has a different like view on here.
1:26:41
I remember I posted when like this was heating up and I was
1:26:45
like, like doing some research like on, on all this.
1:26:49
And again, like guys like my expertise is media.
1:26:53
That's what like literally I do. I make content, right?
1:26:57
And I, I just, I don't have the technicality to explain it to
1:27:02
you, but just based on the surface level stuff I said
1:27:05
running knots. That tweet blew up and I got so
1:27:08
much hate. Like I got love and I got hate.
1:27:10
I got a combination of both and it was like like, oh, you don't
1:27:14
know what you're talking about, whatever.
1:27:15
And that like I remember responding and I was like
1:27:17
Caitlin Long, I think reposted. But I was like, look, like I
1:27:20
don't have to explain why I'm doing that.
1:27:22
Like I'm doing this because, you know, I feel like it's important
1:27:25
that, you know, I make my opinion heard.
1:27:29
But at the same time, I don't have to explain this to you, nor
1:27:32
do I have to run the version of Bitcoin that you want me to run.
1:27:35
I can run whatever version of Bitcoin I want to run.
1:27:38
Bitcoin ain't a democracy. Like you don't get to force me.
1:27:41
Like that's the beauty of Bitcoin, right?
1:27:44
But again, you only get to decide if you're running a
1:27:49
Bitcoin node, if you're running your, if you're running your own
1:27:51
version of the Bitcoin software. And right now, obviously the,
1:27:54
the two most popular softwares are Bitcoin core versions of
1:27:58
Bitcoin core. And then Bitcoin knots, which of
1:28:01
course comes from the ocean guys.
1:28:03
So I'm going to pass it on to Opti.
1:28:04
Opti, I want to get your thoughts and then I want to
1:28:06
double back and we we have to talk about SaaS mining because
1:28:10
we do have their CEO in the house, Kent, CEO of SAS mining.
1:28:15
We have to talk about it pick more mining as a service.
1:28:17
We got to talk about wild SAS anyways.
1:28:19
Opti yeah, I know you're very I know you're very opinionated on
1:28:22
this and I know you've already picked a a side and I.
1:28:26
Did what I did what Ken said. I'm on the side of I don't
1:28:29
update my nodes unless I see a reason to.
1:28:32
So, you know, Full disclosure, I'm running what core like 28 or
1:28:36
something like that and I'm not going to update.
1:28:39
I I'd like my node. It's fine.
1:28:42
I'm definitely you, you can say it's set, set fence sitting
1:28:47
right now, but I think that's the other option.
1:28:50
It's like from what I've been hearing every the, the two
1:28:53
options I'm seeing, it's like you either run knots or you're
1:28:55
running the version 30. And I'm like, well, what about
1:28:58
just not updating my node here? Like that's also 1/3 option
1:29:02
here. And there's other, there's other
1:29:04
implementations that that I think are also consensus driven.
1:29:08
And so, like, I don't want to rehash everything that Kent
1:29:10
said, but my kind of take away from this.
1:29:12
And again, guys, I, I haven't done the, the huge deep dive on
1:29:15
this yet because I like what Kent was saying.
1:29:18
I've seen everyone kind of throwing, you know, throwing
1:29:21
dirt at each other. And so I've kind of just been
1:29:23
ignoring it. And it's like, OK, they're
1:29:25
arguing about stuff that's above my pay grade.
1:29:27
And, you know, I'll, I'll figure out once the dust settles what,
1:29:30
what is actually going on. But I did do, like I said, a
1:29:33
little bit of, you know, tentative research.
1:29:36
I, I read a couple articles, I kind of followed some of the
1:29:38
threads. Like I said earlier, I got on
1:29:40
the phone with one of my buddies.
1:29:41
That's a Bitcoin miner and my kind of take away and again,
1:29:45
hold you, I could be wrong here. You know, I'm going to say I
1:29:49
could be wrong here, but my initial gut feeling was like
1:29:52
this feels like a nothing burger to me.
1:29:54
Like, yes, the implications are huge, what Kent was saying.
1:29:59
And there is like potential dangers and maybe these are
1:30:02
nation state attacks and stuff. But my kind of just general
1:30:05
feeling is, is I think people have expectations of Bitcoin
1:30:09
going up. And what usually happens when
1:30:11
Bitcoin doesn't do what people want is we start fighting about
1:30:14
stuff that maybe doesn't have as big of an impact as we think it
1:30:17
does. And so that was like my general
1:30:20
kind of take of this. Now doing a little bit of the
1:30:22
research here again, I, I didn't want to fully cover this.
1:30:26
So I'm glad Kent came on today because I, I haven't gotten to
1:30:29
the bottom of it. I, I don't feel, you know, 100%
1:30:32
comfortable really covering the whole saga.
1:30:34
But my kind of take away of it is there is the, you know, the
1:30:38
not side, which is like we're, we're filtering up the spam.
1:30:41
We want, you know, Bitcoin to be purely monetary transactions,
1:30:45
which I'm actually a believer in that.
1:30:46
I, I don't like jpegs or any of that stuff.
1:30:49
But from what I'm getting on the other side, it's basically like
1:30:52
you can't actually stop all this spam.
1:30:54
These things are going to happen out of band.
1:30:56
Like your note isn't necessarily going to stop all the spam.
1:31:00
And then the other, it gets murkier and they're like, but my
1:31:02
mem pool, my mem pool can stop these transactions from coming
1:31:05
from. And it's like, yeah, but all it
1:31:07
takes is basically a couple of people to propagate these
1:31:09
transactions. So you can't actually stop these
1:31:12
transactions. Let's just put them in an area
1:31:14
that doesn't really affect the, the, the the base chain here.
1:31:18
So that's like my really low IQ version of this because I
1:31:21
haven't fully like gotten to the bottom of it again, above my pay
1:31:25
grade. I, I just talk about Bitcoin,
1:31:27
but that's kind of my, my view of, of this so far, just doing
1:31:31
some kind of like very shallow research of it.
1:31:34
Hence, again, why I think I'm just kind of sitting on an old
1:31:37
version of core. I, I have this, you know, very
1:31:41
left side of the bell curve view on my note is I don't update my
1:31:44
note for like a year or two. That's just kind of my default
1:31:47
heuristic here. And since this is the reason,
1:31:50
since you see all of the people freaking out about it, I just
1:31:54
sit back and and I'll wait and I'll figure out, you know, at
1:31:56
what point I need to actually update my node and what I'll do
1:32:00
in the meantime. My node works.
1:32:02
But there is something that I do want to mention.
1:32:04
Nico did say run a node. It's not just enough to run a
1:32:08
node, guys. If you're just spinning up a
1:32:09
node, you're not actually helping the network.
1:32:12
You need to connect these to your wallets.
1:32:14
You need to use them with your Bitcoin wallets.
1:32:17
That's how you actually, you know, have an effect here, just
1:32:22
spinning up a node or you know, buying a a stand alone node and
1:32:26
just chilling there. It really doesn't do much.
1:32:28
You need to connect these to your wallet.
1:32:30
So if you are choosing a side, make sure they're connected to
1:32:33
your wallets guys 'cause just running a node literally means
1:32:35
nothing. You need to connect these to
1:32:37
your wallets. And I've seen a lot of people
1:32:38
say, hey, I spun up 6 knots and you're like, you only really
1:32:43
need one node. Like are, are these connected to
1:32:45
your wallets here or you're just spinning up nodes?
1:32:47
Just spin up nodes. You're just kind of like wasting
1:32:49
money. Now, I know there's been a lot
1:32:51
of contention on each side of the aisle, but again, I, I
1:32:55
haven't done the deep enough dive yet to really, you know,
1:32:58
give you my like definitive stance on this.
1:33:02
That's just kind of where I'm at at the moment.
1:33:04
Just doing some research last night 'cause I was thinking
1:33:06
about covering it today and then I realized, like I, I don't have
1:33:10
enough information to really make a strong stance here.
1:33:12
So that's just like my initial take on all this.
1:33:15
And as things start to heat up, I'm sure I'll bring it back up
1:33:18
on the show soon enough. All right, Nico, let's let's
1:33:20
talk sads for a little bit. Absolutely guys, if you've ever
1:33:24
wanted to mine Bitcoin but you're like, dude, that's way
1:33:28
too expensive. I don't have the know how well I
1:33:32
got something for you guys. It's mining baby.
1:33:34
Bitcoin mining as a This is the way that I like to describe it.
1:33:40
It's like if Uber and Bitcoin mining had a baby.
1:33:43
Baby was more beautiful and it looked like Kent and Nathan and
1:33:49
Wild Sats and the Amazon you'd get SAS mining.
1:33:54
It's it's incredible. It's a fantastic user interface.
1:33:58
It just takes the complexities out of mining.
1:34:01
And one of the some of the awesome things Ken Ken's been
1:34:04
blowing my mind. Like we had this a fantastic
1:34:06
conversation. We got to hang out at Baltic
1:34:10
honey badger in Latvia and and Kent was just taking me down the
1:34:16
rabbit hole and he was just like Nico, like you don't understand,
1:34:19
like the original Bitcoin, like the way that you originally used
1:34:23
to get Bitcoin was used to mine it.
1:34:26
You you couldn't even buy it on the exchange.
1:34:29
Man, we need to go back to those days.
1:34:32
Like people have forgotten that that's how Bitcoin was acquired,
1:34:36
right? Like people have forgotten that
1:34:38
that lesson, right. So this is what SAS mining
1:34:40
allows you to do. It allows you to mine Bitcoin
1:34:44
without the complexities, without the hassle, without the
1:34:47
setting up costs. It's plug and play.
1:34:50
They have different locations all around the world and I the,
1:34:54
the, the rig gets up very, very quickly once you make the
1:34:57
purchase and bam Bing bam boom. It's very straightforward.
1:35:01
I think that was a good overall explanation.
1:35:04
Mind Bitcoin, own your rigs, ditch the exchanges.
1:35:07
And also another thing, one last thing I'll say before I pass it
1:35:10
on to Kent is if you want to acquire Bitcoin below market
1:35:15
rate below 112,000, you want to you want to get Bitcoin on the
1:35:20
cheap. You know what you got to do?
1:35:22
You got to mine it. I'm going to pass it on to Kent.
1:35:25
Yeah, no, I think the the bada Bing bada boom was the the
1:35:28
perfect way to describe it. Nico, no kidding aside, this is
1:35:32
this is if you look at bitcoins acquisition history, how we've
1:35:36
acquired Bitcoin over time from 22,009 from the first block
1:35:40
until roughly 2013. It was almost all done through
1:35:43
mining. I mean Mount Gox I think existed
1:35:46
during that time frame. But for the most part, if you
1:35:49
were running Bitcoin, you are actually generating your own
1:35:51
Bitcoin. And that process was so the node
1:35:55
and mining were together. It was a conjoined process.
1:35:58
And somewhere after 2013, and I actually did talk to a couple of
1:36:01
O GS from that time frame, it was around the 2013 and Coinbase
1:36:05
opened its doors. That was shifted most of us and
1:36:08
I think for convenience reasons, started to go to an easy
1:36:12
exchange based way to acquire your Bitcoin.
1:36:15
And when that happened, there's a split in our timeline.
1:36:18
And that split actually, I believe has led to some amnesia.
1:36:21
So what am I talking about? If you talk to any Ogs, anybody
1:36:24
that was acquiring Bitcoin in that 2009 to 2013 time period,
1:36:28
there's not this disdain for mining.
1:36:30
There was there's kind of a fondness that they have for it
1:36:33
because they know that that's how they generated their
1:36:35
Bitcoin. And I think in the same ways
1:36:37
that you can go generate your own power by having solar panels
1:36:40
on your roof, you go grow your own tomatoes in your garden.
1:36:43
You know, these things that are Auburn and that are independent
1:36:47
give great value and meaning to us.
1:36:49
The same occurs with mining. When you generate your own
1:36:52
wildsats, you have a different sense of those and those were
1:36:55
generated outside the the the banking system.
1:36:58
So generating your own Bitcoin is a cypherpunk approach to
1:37:03
acquiring Bitcoin. And there's tremendous value in
1:37:05
it from the wildsat standpoint. And the fact that you're getting
1:37:08
more SAT's for your dollar on a daily basis, right?
1:37:11
If you just take how much should it cost me to run my mining rig
1:37:14
divided by how many sounds like it, you'll see that that price
1:37:17
is below the exchange price. So your dollar cost averaging
1:37:21
through electricity into a Bitcoin position.
1:37:23
And This is why mining has value.
1:37:26
It has the opportunity for you to acquire Bitcoin at a discount
1:37:29
and outside of the banking system.
1:37:32
Now, when it comes to SAS mining, what we did is I came
1:37:35
into this industry coming from rooftop solar and I saw that
1:37:38
there was a trust based issue at its core with our particular
1:37:43
sector of the industry, the mining industry.
1:37:45
What I saw was look at the end of the day, like I have
1:37:48
possession of something that is someone our customer's
1:37:51
equipment, right? There's no way for that
1:37:53
relationship to be anything other than trust space.
1:37:56
So the question for me was how do we optimize that trust?
1:38:00
You know, how do we how do we build our model in such a way
1:38:03
that customers know that they can trust us?
1:38:06
And the answer was actually at the economics.
1:38:08
So there's only three levers you've got when it comes to this
1:38:11
type of a business. I can make money selling you
1:38:14
hardware, I can make make money selling you electricity, or I
1:38:18
can instead align incentives and say, look, I'll take just 15% of
1:38:22
the block reward. And by doing that, that means if
1:38:25
I'm not generating Bitcoin for you, then I'm not getting paid.
1:38:29
And so that's what we designed our business around.
1:38:30
So no markups on the electricity and power, those are cost pass
1:38:35
through, but instead aligned incentives and doing that along
1:38:39
with a software based experience that nobody is focused on to
1:38:43
date kind of puts us into that Airbnb or Uber sort of category,
1:38:48
which we call mining as a service.
1:38:49
So yeah, if you want to see why we've gotten such good
1:38:52
Trustpilot review scores and take a take a spin, you know, we
1:38:57
do have mining rigs on offer that are live hash.
1:39:00
So we get those going in under 24 hours, 48 hours if you're
1:39:03
buying on the weekend, but we got those going basically right
1:39:07
away. So you sign up, put down a
1:39:08
credit card to pay for your monthly electricity bill, which
1:39:11
would only charge you what you actually consume with your
1:39:13
mining rig, provide a Bitcoin address.
1:39:15
It's your Bitcoin we never touch.
1:39:16
It goes right to your wallet and is paid out when you hit the
1:39:21
threshold. And we are going live with Ocean
1:39:24
in the next couple days. So not only do we have the FPPS
1:39:28
pool of Luxor, but we'll have Ocean to offer to the
1:39:31
marketplace is a secondary choice.
1:39:33
So yeah, we're pretty excited about the the progress and and
1:39:37
improvement of our offering. And with a little left, we'll
1:39:40
let we'll also have something in Ethiopia to bring to the market
1:39:44
in the next couple of months, putting us putting us on 4
1:39:47
continents and building a global brand.
1:39:50
Fantastic guys, go check out SAS mining.com/simply Bitcoin today.
1:39:59
Bitcoin mining as a service. It makes Bitcoin mining so easy.
1:40:03
It's like ordering Uber Eats, except you won't get fat like
1:40:06
Nico. You'll you'll acquire a lot of
1:40:08
SAS, a lot of wild SAS. It's fantastic.
1:40:11
Go to sas.com, SAS mining.com/simply Bitcoin to get
1:40:17
started. You get $100 off your first rig
1:40:19
if you use that promo. Code guys, oh, we got to give we
1:40:22
already give away sats in the beginning so much sats lots of
1:40:25
sats. This is where you got to tune
1:40:26
into simply Bitcoin. If you guys enjoyed the show for
1:40:29
September 3rd, 2025, make sure to smash that like button.
1:40:33
Consider subscribing if you feel like we provided you value.
1:40:35
I'm your host, Nico. It's my legendary Co host who's
1:40:38
optimistic today, Optimist Fields and our special guest,
1:40:42
CEO of SAS Mining, Bitcoin mining as a service, Kent
1:40:46
joining us today, guys. Thank you so much.
1:40:48
We'll see you tomorrow actually, I'll see you on Monday, but
1:40:51
Opti's going to be back on Thursday and Friday and it's
1:40:54
going to be fantastic. It's going to be great.
1:40:56
See you guys on Monday. See you guys on the other side.
1:40:58
Have a great weekend, take care of everybody.
1:40:59
Today's episode was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com, a
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Bitcoin only platform on a mission to enable financial
1:41:05
independence.