Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / Duncan Webb: Labour's Justice Spokesperson on the Government's sentencing reforms

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Duncan Webb: Labour's Justice Spokesperson on the Government's sentencing reforms · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So the government's plan is target is to have twenty
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: thousand fewer victims of violent crime by twenty thirty, but
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: the latest figures show that victimizations are going up. Luxon's
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: blaming the previous lot and it's also further proof that
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the previous soft on crime approach has emboldened defenders and
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: created a crime wave that will take a much tougher
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: approach to stop. Duncan web is Labour's just as spokesperson.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: He's with us this morning. Duncan, good morning, good morning.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: When that line's not going forever, is that he's had
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: a pretty much a year now in then getting worse.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you guys use that line for six years.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Well they had nine years in so they've got more
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: to an answer for. But the fact of the matter
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: is that this is tough on crime. It sounds good
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: and everyone wants a safe community and we should be
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: tough on violent criminals. People who are violent criminals should
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: be sentenced properly. But there's nothing new in this sentencing
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: change that we're seeing now.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Well, they're wanting to limit the discounts to forty percent.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: What would be your number in terms of a discount
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: if you're a criminal, you're going through the courts. How
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: much is your maximum discount? Do you think?
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Well, look, I look at what dudges do now, and
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: whenever they give a discount, particularly particularly a large one,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: they want really good reasons. They want to show that
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: it's going to be manifestly unjust if they if they
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: imprison them for longer. And that's exactly the rule that
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: they're putting in. So, I mean, the judges have discretion
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: for a reason, and the reason is to take account
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: of exceptional cases. A forty percent discount in real life
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: is a very very large discount. Indeed, this isn't even
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: a bright line maximum. It's forty percent unless it would
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: be manifested now just to impose that set, in which
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: case you can get a great discount. So it's not
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: even a rule. So would you back then what's there already? Well,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: it changes nothing, and it places more and more confusing
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: rules in the for the opposing sentences. So probably not.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Probably not okay, because are you going to support any
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: of their changes. I mean, when it comes to the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: gang laws, for example, is there anything in there that
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: you say, yes, good idea will support you on that?
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: The gang laws are another one which are an absolute
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: dog's breakfast. It's pretty much unenforceable. The gang Insignia Dean,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: the dispersal orders. They're going to serve notices on gangs
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: by email, the first time I've ever seen anything like that,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: and they haven't even got their email increases. They have
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: to go up and ask nicely for them. This is
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: exactly what I mean. So don't government? Can you see
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: something the table?
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Can you see though, why we are here? Can you
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: see why a government would come in and respond like this?
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Try everything they can literally throw in the kitchen table,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: at the kitchen sink at this because things have gotten
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: so bad under you guys, well they might.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: As well throw the kitchen sink because as much evidence
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: to that helping as a rest for things like boot camps,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: you know, and that's part of the point. We put
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: in some programs that were making great progress that they
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: were the circuit break of programs for young offenders. They
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: took half of that and added a boot camp to
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: it and said, look what we're doing now again, Yes,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: we see that we want safer communities and over since
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: COVID there's been an increase in crime, and that increase
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: has continued. Yes, we agree we need to do things,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: but doing things like just putting a quick coat of
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: paint over the Sentencing Act isn't doing anything. What we
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: need is better interventions, better alcohol and drug treatment, better
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: health interventions for people with mental health problems, and a
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: better reaction system.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that all sounds lovely. Speaking of interventions, are
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: you is anyone planning an intervention on Chippy down on
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: twelve percent?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I hadn't seen that number. The look, we think he's
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: doing a great job.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: So I'll tell you that the number that have had
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: the taxpayer Uni Caurier poll out his preferred PM down
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: six point one points to twelve point six.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's David Fower's pole and his polling methods
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: are a bit dodgies. But whatever the number, we think
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: he's doing a great job. He's out there, he's getting
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: around the country, he's telling our story and we think
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: he's doing a great job.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: You're okay with them going over to the UK to
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: the Labor Party conference. Is that the place to be
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: to get crime down?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Oh? The Labor Party conference is going to look at
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: a party that won and got some new ideas and
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: doing different things and we want to see how they
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: did it. I think it's a really good all.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Right, Duncan, thank you very much for coming on the
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: show and getting up early. Really appreciate your time at
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Duncan Web is Labour's Justice spokesperson.
• 4:45
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• 4:47
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• 4:50
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