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Interview With Byron and Charlie: Masters in Business (Audio) · Masters in Business

0:00
Speaker 1: The future may not be clear, but our commitment is
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Speaker 1: so when you sit with an advisor at Merrill Lynch,
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Speaker 1: Pierce Federan Smith Incorporated, a registered broker dealer remember s
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Speaker 1: I PC. This week on the podcast, I have two
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Speaker 1: very extra special guests. Uh, this is really quite fascinating.
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Speaker 1: Byron Scott is a former l a Laker part of
0:26
Speaker 1: the Showtime Lakers, won three national championships as a player,
0:30
Speaker 1: went to the finals several times as a coach. Charlie
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Speaker 1: Norris is the former CEO of McKesson Water as well
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Speaker 1: as deer Park Water, who has a history of taking
0:43
Speaker 1: these damaged or or floundering companies and turning them around
0:48
Speaker 1: and selling them for a substantial uptick from from how
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Speaker 1: we found them. This is really a story of a
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Speaker 1: fascinating friendship that developed over time, starting in an Equinox
1:01
Speaker 1: gym in Los Angeles where Scott used to work out
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Speaker 1: after his playing days. Um, this is really a fascinating
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Speaker 1: tale of how these two gentlemen who could not look
1:16
Speaker 1: more differently if you were seeing them from across the room,
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Speaker 1: and yet they turn out to be philosophically and temperamentally
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Speaker 1: so similar, and a fast friendship develops with a lot
1:29
Speaker 1: of exchange of ideas in terms of how sports and
1:35
Speaker 1: business have all these overlaps, questions of leadership, questions of motivation,
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Speaker 1: questions of threading your way through a variety of of
1:45
Speaker 1: different challenges and how best to respond to them, And
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Speaker 1: what ends up happening is a a lifelong friendship develops
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Speaker 1: and at a certain point they kind of look at
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Speaker 1: each other and say, hey, there's a book here. We
2:00
Speaker 1: really have to share what we've discovered. It's it's a
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Speaker 1: lovely story. I found the two of them to be
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Speaker 1: absolutely charming and delightful. My only regret is this interview
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Speaker 1: is barely an hour. I could have chatted with them
2:16
Speaker 1: for another hour. They were They were just a blast.
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Speaker 1: So here are Charlie Norris and Byron Scott discussing corporate
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Speaker 1: leadership in the modern age. This is Masters in Business
2:35
Speaker 1: with Barry Ridholtz on Boomberg Radio. My special guests today
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Speaker 1: are Byron Scott and Charlie Norris Byron was a NBA
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Speaker 1: player with the Showtime era Los Angeles Lakers, where he
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Speaker 1: won three national championships, playing alongside Magic Johnson, James Worthy,
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Speaker 1: Kareem Abdul Jabbar. He went on to have a successful
3:00
Speaker 1: career as a coach where he got two more championship
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Speaker 1: rings uh coaching the New Jersey Nets and the Milwaukee Bucks.
3:07
Speaker 1: Is that right, Hornets? That's right who eventually became the
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Speaker 1: Charlotte Hornets and and his co author is Charlie Norris,
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Speaker 1: who is a successful businessman. He is the former CEO
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Speaker 1: and president McKesson Water. He helped take dear Park spring
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Speaker 1: Water to a new level where it was subsequently sold
3:28
Speaker 1: off to Clorox Water was sold off to Dannon. Both
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Speaker 1: gentlemen co authored a book called Slam Dunk Success, Leaning
3:39
Speaker 1: from Every position on Life's Court. Gentleman, Welcome to Bloomberg.
3:43
Speaker 1: Thank you, Berry appreciate it. So we were talking earlier
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Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I'm really not a big
3:49
Speaker 1: fan of business books using sports as a metaphor. They're
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Speaker 1: always cliche and blab, but this was a really fun book.
3:56
Speaker 1: It's light and breezing, and it's filled with some really
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Speaker 1: smart insight. Tell us how this came about. Wow, Um, well,
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Speaker 1: I mean to kind of get in it, I guess, real,
4:08
Speaker 1: real easily. From the beginning, Charlie and I met at
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Speaker 1: Equal Nuts in West Los Angeles nine years ago, and
4:14
Speaker 1: a mutual friend introduced us. Uh, and after we met
4:18
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks later, we started to do some
4:19
Speaker 1: cardio workouts together and uh, you know, from then on
4:23
Speaker 1: we started lifting weights and and basically we really just
4:25
Speaker 1: started to get to know each other and workouts became
4:28
Speaker 1: very intensified. And next thing you know, we're on the
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Speaker 1: map one day after one of our unbelievable workouts, and
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Speaker 1: we're both sitting there and Charlie says, b we should
4:37
Speaker 1: write a book. And at the time, Barry, we you know,
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Speaker 1: we really looked at it, something very lightheartedly and maybe
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Speaker 1: a little paperback book, and we thought we would have
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Speaker 1: a bunch of pictures in there, and we were gonna
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Speaker 1: call it how to work Out when You're fifty years
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Speaker 1: and older. So I have to ask a question. You
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Speaker 1: said your workouts became intensified, sir, How did that happen
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Speaker 1: when the two you guys are just you know, either
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Speaker 1: of you are professional athletes. Any longer. You're both in
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Speaker 1: your one of us never was. That's you're both fifty
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Speaker 1: plus fifty and fifty five and sixty five along those
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Speaker 1: those age range. Thank you for that. How why did
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Speaker 1: the workouts become or at the time you're forty five
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Speaker 1: and sixty fifty five? Why did the workouts become more intensified?
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Speaker 1: Why were you driving each other to work harder? Well,
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Speaker 1: Charlie came to me and said, b I need to
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Speaker 1: lose weight. And I said, all right, Charlie, we're gonna
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Speaker 1: start lifting weights and we're gonna intensify the uh the
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Speaker 1: cardio workout. And you know, being an ex athlete, I
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Speaker 1: know how to work out, and I know how to
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Speaker 1: work out hard. And having a partner like Charlie, my
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Speaker 1: only problem at the time when we first got together
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Speaker 1: was wondering if he could really keep up with me,
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Speaker 1: and if if he could help me by pushing me
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Speaker 1: as well. I'm wondering if I could keep up with Charlie.
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Speaker 1: That's that's a good question, that's question. What Byron didn't
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Speaker 1: know is that I had run two marathons and I
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Speaker 1: and I'm always goal oriented, so you're both competitive to say,
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Speaker 1: and that did he push you? Did you have to
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Speaker 1: work out her? I mean, you know, the thing was
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Speaker 1: that he pushed me to be better and lift more
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Speaker 1: weights and and do some things on the on the
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Speaker 1: elliptical machine and a treadmill that I hadn't done before.
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Speaker 1: So it was a great match because we were able
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Speaker 1: to really push each other. There's a wonderful story in
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Speaker 1: the Bidding beginning of the book of how people just
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Speaker 1: keep coming up to you and saying, what is this
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Speaker 1: odd couple development? What was the general reaction to people
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Speaker 1: for you two guys. I want to come back even
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Speaker 1: a little further, because as we talked, I'm a Bostonian,
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Speaker 1: Byron being from Los Angeles, so you guys are natural enemies.
6:45
Speaker 1: And what he didn't tell what a surprise. But I
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Speaker 1: was a Laker hater from when I was in embryo,
6:55
Speaker 1: and uh, then I have to ask, he's bragging on
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Speaker 1: elbowing Danny Ainge in the chin and that was that
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Speaker 1: was okay with that was okay with that. But I
7:07
Speaker 1: really I met Byron, but it wasn't love at first
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Speaker 1: sight because honestly, I didn't know who Byron was and
7:18
Speaker 1: I was observing him at the gym where we work out.
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Speaker 1: It has a couple of floors, and Byron would be
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Speaker 1: down on the first floor. I'd be up on the
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Speaker 1: second on one of the cardio machines, and I'd watch him.
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Speaker 1: And what really impressed me was he was serious about
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Speaker 1: his workout, but if people came up to him, he
7:37
Speaker 1: took time too. He didn't just brush them off. He
7:41
Speaker 1: took time to talk to them, but kept going because
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Speaker 1: he wanted to stay on his workout without being rude
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Speaker 1: about it. And when we first met and started to
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Speaker 1: do things together, I was really impressed with the fact
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Speaker 1: that he knew the names of the people picking up
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Speaker 1: the towels in the gym, the people that were handing
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Speaker 1: out food in the downstairs, in the in the dining area.
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Speaker 1: He knew not only their names, but they're going to
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Speaker 1: night school, if they had kids. He really cared about
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Speaker 1: the front line everyday people. So I what really attracted
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Speaker 1: me to him was more than the question of his
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Speaker 1: leadership style was one of getting to the hearts of people.
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Speaker 1: It was it was obvious to me, which is mine.
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Speaker 1: So back to your question, Uh, every day, five to
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Speaker 1: ten people would come up and say, what do you
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Speaker 1: two have in common? Why are you having so much fun?
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Speaker 1: Be you're gonna kill that old man? Why? Why you? Why?
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Speaker 1: Why are you working out together? But they never asked
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Speaker 1: the second question, which is, you know, it was sort
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Speaker 1: of an ironic question and then they go off to whatever.
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Speaker 1: But they never asked the second question, what do you
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Speaker 1: really have in common? And on this particular day that
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Speaker 1: that Byron is alluding to, when we were sweating away,
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Speaker 1: there must have been fifteen people who asked that question
9:09
Speaker 1: and wandered off, And I said, there really is a
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Speaker 1: book here, because the book is not only the workout,
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Speaker 1: but this unlikely friendship. And really you can't judge a
9:19
Speaker 1: book by its cover. Uh that we do have a
9:22
Speaker 1: lot in common, but nobody takes the time to really
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Speaker 1: try to understand that. Coming up, we continue our conversation
9:29
Speaker 1: with Byron Scott of the Lakers and Charlie Norris of McKesson,
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Speaker 1: discussing similarities between coaching a team and running a company.
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Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ridholts. You're listening to Master's in Business on
9:42
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. My special guests today are Byron Scott of
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Speaker 1: the NBA championship Los Angeles Lakers and Charlie Norris former
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Speaker 1: CEO and president of McKesson Water and Deer Park spring Water.
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Speaker 1: We were discussing the similarities between coaching a team and
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Speaker 1: running a business. What are the not so obvious overlaps
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Speaker 1: between these two endeavors and where do they differ. What
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Speaker 1: was a great experience for me UH when Byron got
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Speaker 1: the Laker coaching job. We started working out whenever they
10:17
Speaker 1: were home. We started working out together virtually every day
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Speaker 1: at the Laker facility, and he included me in UH
10:26
Speaker 1: film sessions with the players, coaches, meetings of the practices,
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Speaker 1: and I really started to see how his leadership style
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Speaker 1: in mind were aligned in in many ways. And one
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Speaker 1: of the similarities is you win if your team wins.
10:45
Speaker 1: And how you score in business is a little different
10:48
Speaker 1: than how you score in sport in our In our world,
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Speaker 1: you score if you gain market share from the competition,
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Speaker 1: and market share is a huge indicator both of how
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Speaker 1: you're the consuming public views you, but also what you're
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Speaker 1: doing better than the competition to be gaining share. If
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Speaker 1: that's not you're not just buying it, you're gaining it,
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Speaker 1: and your profitability is going up with it. And that
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Speaker 1: clearly is a team exercise on a corporate level, it's
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Speaker 1: a total team exercise. And so back to an earlier
11:23
Speaker 1: question you asked about why it's important to get to
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Speaker 1: be a people person and know what's going on with
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Speaker 1: the people. Uh, A very high percentage of our frontline people,
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Speaker 1: especially on the route, the route sales reps, they were
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Speaker 1: former athletes. Yeah, they were. They were former athletes. A
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Speaker 1: couple actually were former professional athletes, and they understand that
11:49
Speaker 1: you have to get to have the back of the
11:51
Speaker 1: people around you. And by that, if somebody is sick
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Speaker 1: one day, uh, the others would take over and make
11:58
Speaker 1: sure that their customers reserved. They would help each other,
12:03
Speaker 1: and sometimes they would move bottles from one truck to
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Speaker 1: another if one guy was already his truck was already empty,
12:11
Speaker 1: and it was easier to have someone in the field
12:15
Speaker 1: given bottles rather than to come back to the manufacturing facility.
12:19
Speaker 1: And we wanted to make sure at every level people
12:23
Speaker 1: understood that we're in it as a team. And so
12:27
Speaker 1: things that I would do with Deer Park, for example,
12:31
Speaker 1: even the union employees we gave a stock to. We
12:34
Speaker 1: gave stock to everybody because if we were going to
12:37
Speaker 1: be successful, UH, then we wanted the whole team to
12:41
Speaker 1: be seen everybody. So then how do you incorporate your
12:46
Speaker 1: then coaching the Lakers, how do you incorporate these big
12:51
Speaker 1: business principles to managing people? How does that apply to
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Speaker 1: you know, I think of professional athletes as you know,
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Speaker 1: high strung, highest level. I it's a terrible um uh
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Speaker 1: way to conceptualize it, but these are people competing at
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Speaker 1: the very highest level of physical achievement. It seems that
13:17
Speaker 1: would be a very different set of rules. Then let's
13:20
Speaker 1: go sell more widgets today or am I completely wrong
13:23
Speaker 1: and not? I think the rules are pretty much the same.
13:26
Speaker 1: Like Charlie said, it's all about the teamwork and when
13:28
Speaker 1: you have a team of five on that floor and
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Speaker 1: really it's a team of twelve or fifteen, because it's
13:32
Speaker 1: the whole team. And one of the things that Charlie
13:35
Speaker 1: taught me is that, you know, you have to put
13:37
Speaker 1: the people, uh, the front line people at the top.
13:40
Speaker 1: You know, he has his upside down pyramid that we
13:42
Speaker 1: talked about, and the coaches at the bottom. You know,
13:45
Speaker 1: so that twelve and at eleventh and tenth and ninth
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Speaker 1: and eighth guy is just as important as the number one,
13:51
Speaker 1: number two guy on any team because at the end
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Speaker 1: of the day, as a teammate, when I played the
13:56
Speaker 1: game of basketball, I didn't want to let my teammates down.
13:58
Speaker 1: So I had to make sure every night I came
14:00
Speaker 1: ready to play and do my part. And in turn,
14:03
Speaker 1: our guys all felt that way. And as a team also,
14:06
Speaker 1: you have to have it has to be one common goal.
14:09
Speaker 1: You can't have all these guys have different goals because
14:11
Speaker 1: it's not gonna work. And our whole gold and the
14:14
Speaker 1: whole mindset was always win championships. Uh. We We didn't
14:18
Speaker 1: care about the individual achievements because we knew if we
14:20
Speaker 1: wanted as a team that everybody would win and everybody
14:22
Speaker 1: would would would prosper from that, you know. So it's
14:25
Speaker 1: very important for us to understand that the name on
14:28
Speaker 1: the front of the jersey is much more important than
14:30
Speaker 1: the name on the back of the jersey. And that's
14:31
Speaker 1: how we kind of, you know, looked at it as
14:33
Speaker 1: we do in business. When you know, when I'm dealing
14:35
Speaker 1: with Charlie and we're talking business and I'm really just
14:38
Speaker 1: you know, grabbing his coat tel and listening every world
14:40
Speaker 1: he has to say. When I'm in these board meetings
14:43
Speaker 1: and in these bank meetings. I get a kick out
14:46
Speaker 1: of that because it's it's so much like basketball. You know,
14:49
Speaker 1: everybody has to be on the same page in order
14:51
Speaker 1: for it too. You know, he's not. He's not on
14:53
Speaker 1: my coattail. In fact, what I found that is amazing
14:57
Speaker 1: to me. Uh, If I ask another consumer package goods guy,
15:02
Speaker 1: what do you think about this problem or this issue
15:04
Speaker 1: with that personnel issue that we might have, I'll get
15:08
Speaker 1: an answer that's probably pretty close to what my way
15:11
Speaker 1: of thinking is because we grew up with studying the
15:15
Speaker 1: same courses. When I asked Byron that question, I'll get
15:19
Speaker 1: a very different answer, and often times that answer will
15:23
Speaker 1: turn on the lightbulb. Boy, I never thought about it
15:26
Speaker 1: that way. I've got to modify what I'm doing and
15:29
Speaker 1: incorporate what he's suggesting. You have to take these elite
15:33
Speaker 1: athletes and get them to perform really at the very
15:36
Speaker 1: highest level. When you're working with staff employees, you want
15:41
Speaker 1: them to do their best. But it's a very different
15:45
Speaker 1: set of parameters. So so where are the differences. What
15:49
Speaker 1: do you pick up from Byron that you can't get
15:51
Speaker 1: from someone else in a package goods business. I can't,
15:56
Speaker 1: I can't say that and make a generalization around that.
16:00
Speaker 1: But all I can tell you is I've on on
16:04
Speaker 1: numerous occasions, said I'm having a problem with this person
16:08
Speaker 1: or this issue, and he'll say, you know, this is
16:12
Speaker 1: how I've done it in the past, and sometimes there's
16:15
Speaker 1: something that will click, and I'll say, you know, I'm
16:18
Speaker 1: gonna try to use that to see if I can
16:21
Speaker 1: motivate the person better than I've been motivating him or
16:24
Speaker 1: her in the past. Uh. And that's the same thing
16:30
Speaker 1: with Charlie, where I've asked him a question that I
16:32
Speaker 1: know I can go to one of my coaches and ask,
16:34
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna get a I'm gonna get a basketball answer.
16:37
Speaker 1: And you know, he sees the game. You know, he's
16:40
Speaker 1: been in the meetings, he sees all the things that
16:42
Speaker 1: we're doing. But I'm gonna get a very objective answer
16:45
Speaker 1: from him that's totally different than what I would probably
16:47
Speaker 1: get from my coaches. And the answer I would get
16:49
Speaker 1: from them is something I probably expect to get, you
16:52
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So Charlie puts it in a
16:53
Speaker 1: different form where again, like he says, it kind of
16:56
Speaker 1: clicks with me and it resonates and I can go
16:58
Speaker 1: to that player and put it in a different form
17:00
Speaker 1: where it makes sense. And we've used each other on
17:03
Speaker 1: number of number of occasions that way, and uh, I
17:06
Speaker 1: remember the last time we did that, you know, I
17:08
Speaker 1: was so giddy. I was like, Charlie, that is fantastic.
17:10
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go use this and it it worked extremely
17:13
Speaker 1: well with the the young man I was talking to.
17:16
Speaker 1: So you know, it's great that we can bounce things
17:18
Speaker 1: off of each other because we're both getting a different perspective.
17:22
Speaker 1: I'm not giving him the old the old company you know,
17:26
Speaker 1: you know answer, and he's not giving me the old
17:28
Speaker 1: coach's answer, and I think that's what makes it really work.
17:31
Speaker 1: Coming up, we continue our conversation with Byron Scott of
17:34
Speaker 1: the Lakers and Charlie Norris of McKesson discussing what it's
17:38
Speaker 1: like playing the game at the highest level. I'm Barry Ridhults.
17:42
Speaker 1: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My
17:46
Speaker 1: special guests today are Byron Scott, formerly of the Los
17:49
Speaker 1: Angeles Lakers, and Charles Norris. He is currently chairman of
17:54
Speaker 1: Fresh Pet. Previously he was CEO of McKesson Water. Let's
17:58
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about playing the game at the
18:01
Speaker 1: highest levels, be it sports or or business. Um, I'm
18:07
Speaker 1: a I'm a big fan of of hoops and I
18:10
Speaker 1: read not too long ago that Oscar Robertson has been
18:15
Speaker 1: pretty rough on on some current players, saying saying that
18:19
Speaker 1: they're soft today, that it's not like the old days
18:21
Speaker 1: where you had a man up and get hurt and
18:24
Speaker 1: play through the pain and what have you. What what's
18:26
Speaker 1: your view on this? Has the game changed? Are these
18:29
Speaker 1: modern players really soft? Yes? Really? Oscar is not pulling
18:34
Speaker 1: any punches anybody never done. No, he never does. But
18:38
Speaker 1: you know a lot of us old school players feel
18:40
Speaker 1: that way, that the game has gotten a loss a
18:42
Speaker 1: lot softer. Uh. You know, the freedom of movement, you know,
18:46
Speaker 1: rule is totally different than it was back in the day.
18:50
Speaker 1: You know, every time you got up and down the court,
18:52
Speaker 1: you got hit. You know, back in the eighties and
18:54
Speaker 1: the seventies and the nineties, Uh, there was no freedom
18:57
Speaker 1: of movement. If it wasn't just every know, it was everybody,
19:00
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody played by the same rules. Detroit just
19:03
Speaker 1: took it to the you know, to the limit, you
19:05
Speaker 1: know what I mean, and maybe sometimes a little over.
19:08
Speaker 1: But but that was a part of the game. You
19:10
Speaker 1: knew that you were gonna get hit when you went
19:11
Speaker 1: to the basket, and you you accepted it. You get up,
19:13
Speaker 1: you make your free throws, and you go down the court.
19:15
Speaker 1: So the game has gotten a lot soffer and I
19:18
Speaker 1: think for a lot of the reasons why is because
19:20
Speaker 1: the NBA wanted to open up the game a lot more.
19:22
Speaker 1: They wanted to make it much more offensively friendly, because
19:25
Speaker 1: they know the more you score, the more fans are
19:27
Speaker 1: in there are in the seats, and the more fans
19:30
Speaker 1: are watching watching the television, so the viewer, the viewership
19:33
Speaker 1: becomes much more higher. So I understand it. Um. And
19:37
Speaker 1: obviously the game right now is in a very good place. Uh.
19:41
Speaker 1: And I do like the way the game is being played.
19:42
Speaker 1: I you know, it's totally different than when I played.
19:45
Speaker 1: When it was inside out. Now it's outside in. And
19:47
Speaker 1: you couldn't have had in a Golden State doing what
19:50
Speaker 1: they're doing back in the eighties and nineties. Well they
19:53
Speaker 1: could have. I still think I'm not gonna take anything
19:55
Speaker 1: from those guys because Curry is a great basketballer, a
19:58
Speaker 1: big final Uh. But he would have been he would
20:01
Speaker 1: have been beat up a lot, you know, back in
20:03
Speaker 1: the day. So it's it's a lot more uh leaning
20:07
Speaker 1: it towards guys that are that are smaller, and it's
20:09
Speaker 1: really brought the smaller guy back into play because if
20:12
Speaker 1: you could shoot it from deep and if you can
20:14
Speaker 1: handle the ball, then there's a place in the NBA
20:16
Speaker 1: for you. So I grew up in the era of
20:19
Speaker 1: Magic and Bird and Michael Jordan's and and and it
20:25
Speaker 1: was I thought it was, you know, a long suffering
20:29
Speaker 1: Knicks fan and the uh Starks Oakley uh era Patrick.
20:36
Speaker 1: You know, of course it was. It was frustrating always
20:40
Speaker 1: getting to Chicago and you know, more or less one
20:43
Speaker 1: thing to roll away from making it into the finals.
20:46
Speaker 1: But I thought that was a fun game and it
20:48
Speaker 1: was a physical game. As much as it's fun to
20:50
Speaker 1: watch on TV, it's totally different than it used to be.
20:54
Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, it's faster. So have they ruined basketball
20:58
Speaker 1: or is it? Have they commercialized? Well, I think they've
21:00
Speaker 1: commercialized it a lot more. It's no doubt about that.
21:03
Speaker 1: Ruined it is a is a very harsh word to
21:06
Speaker 1: use in the NBA. I think the game is still
21:08
Speaker 1: flourishing right now. You know, the game probably right now
21:12
Speaker 1: is more popular than it's ever been, especially with Yeah,
21:15
Speaker 1: especially with the fact that you know, from a social
21:18
Speaker 1: media standpoint, you can go globally and I'm not I
21:22
Speaker 1: don't think I would be crazy to say that there's
21:23
Speaker 1: going to be an NBA overseas somewhere in the near future. Um,
21:28
Speaker 1: you know, so the game is prosperous. I mean, the
21:29
Speaker 1: game is doing extremely well. Uh, it's a great game
21:33
Speaker 1: to watch when you've got teams like Golden State in
21:35
Speaker 1: San Antonio, uh, Cleveland, teams that play what I call
21:39
Speaker 1: the right way. You know, they played, they played a win,
21:42
Speaker 1: and they're playing for individual glory. They playing the win championships.
21:45
Speaker 1: And I think that's the beauty of basketball. So if Charlie,
21:48
Speaker 1: if Byron brings you to the NBA headquarters and they say, listen,
21:52
Speaker 1: we're having some concerns about the future of the game,
21:55
Speaker 1: what what would you recommend they do to uh take
21:58
Speaker 1: to the next level? From a from a corporate perspective, Barry,
22:03
Speaker 1: That's that's a really hard question because just fix I'm
22:09
Speaker 1: not anything challenging. Just take a billion dollar industry and
22:14
Speaker 1: make it better. Uh. Still that that's a hard question
22:18
Speaker 1: when it comes comes to basketball, or what about their
22:21
Speaker 1: own internal management. What what do you think they do well?
22:25
Speaker 1: And what do you think they don't do well? I
22:27
Speaker 1: could tell you, am I allowed to say this? I've
22:30
Speaker 1: seen the four one k that the NBA has from
22:33
Speaker 1: their own players, and it's terrible for their own employees.
22:36
Speaker 1: Not that the players, but if you're an employee of
22:39
Speaker 1: the National Basketball Association, your four O one case. Thanks.
22:42
Speaker 1: I was shocked at that, which made me wonder what
22:45
Speaker 1: else might they be doing well. I've had this conversation
22:50
Speaker 1: on innumerable times with Byron and other friends of mine
22:55
Speaker 1: who had played in the NBA, and it's shocking to
23:00
Speaker 1: me the percentage of players five years after they've retired
23:05
Speaker 1: who are totally bankrupt, to have no career direction. And
23:11
Speaker 1: clearly it's it's getting worse and worse because back in
23:16
Speaker 1: the day you had to be three years out of college.
23:19
Speaker 1: Today year one year and you can and many many
23:22
Speaker 1: of the players go overseas for that year and don't
23:25
Speaker 1: do college at all. Coming up, we continue our conversation
23:29
Speaker 1: with Byron Scott and Charles Norris, authors of Slam Dunk Success,
23:34
Speaker 1: Leaning from every position on life's court, discussing the changing
23:39
Speaker 1: worlds of business. I'm very rich Halts. You're listening to
23:42
Speaker 1: Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special guests today
23:47
Speaker 1: are Byron Scott of the l A Lakers and Charlie Norris,
23:51
Speaker 1: currently chairman of Fresh Pet former CEO of McKesson Water.
23:57
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the world of business
24:00
Speaker 1: today and and these are some questions that I pulled
24:03
Speaker 1: pretty much right from the book. You discuss the importance
24:07
Speaker 1: of being transparent and honest in every one of your
24:11
Speaker 1: interactions with clients with employees. How important is that sort
24:17
Speaker 1: of transparency and honesty to to business today. I think
24:21
Speaker 1: it's hugely important. M My my view is there's no
24:28
Speaker 1: dumb person and everybody if you're the leader of an organization,
24:35
Speaker 1: and especially if you're a leader who's who gets out
24:39
Speaker 1: with the employees as much as I did. And I'll
24:43
Speaker 1: come back to that in a second. Uh, the employees
24:47
Speaker 1: are watching you, and they're watching what you say and
24:51
Speaker 1: how you behave and what what you do. And if
24:54
Speaker 1: you don't walk the talk, uh, they'll know it, and
25:00
Speaker 1: they won't respond as favorably. And the in fact, they
25:04
Speaker 1: won't respond favorably at all if they think that you're
25:09
Speaker 1: you're up there and you're just raking in your your
25:13
Speaker 1: salary and your bonus, and you don't care what's happening
25:16
Speaker 1: to the business or happening to them in their own lives.
25:21
Speaker 1: So when I got to McKesson Water Products them there
25:26
Speaker 1: was one reserve parking space. There was one reserved parking
25:31
Speaker 1: space in the whole company, and it was mine. And
25:34
Speaker 1: the first thing I did in my first day on
25:37
Speaker 1: the job was eliminate that one reserved parking space. Then, uh,
25:43
Speaker 1: did people recognize that and understand why you did that?
25:46
Speaker 1: Right away? We had fifty odd locations and consultants said
25:52
Speaker 1: we were like a an African village in terms of
25:56
Speaker 1: bongo drums, telling different systems, and oh yeah, and and
26:02
Speaker 1: i'd I'd say two days later, everybody in those fifty
26:06
Speaker 1: locations it heard some uh, some story around that somewhere
26:11
Speaker 1: around that act. You said early in the book when
26:14
Speaker 1: you came to McKesson, if you didn't do something to
26:17
Speaker 1: restructure the company, all people would lose their jobs when
26:21
Speaker 1: the company went bankrupt. So you had to let go
26:24
Speaker 1: a thousand people. And Byron, you talk about what it's
26:28
Speaker 1: like being cut and what it's like to have to
26:31
Speaker 1: let a player go. How do you go about making
26:35
Speaker 1: those having those difficult conversations. What's the best approach for
26:40
Speaker 1: for those sorts of things. Well, first of all, I
26:44
Speaker 1: was the new guy on the block, and there was
26:46
Speaker 1: several people internally who felt that they should have gotten
26:50
Speaker 1: the CEO role who were already there. I had a
26:54
Speaker 1: water background, but East coast, and I was coming to
26:57
Speaker 1: the West coast, so I were there East co West
27:00
Speaker 1: coast water battles like East Coast West Coast or is it? Well,
27:07
Speaker 1: I can imagine you know, this is this is this
27:09
Speaker 1: is an interesting story. On the East coast, it was
27:14
Speaker 1: largely office delivery. On the West coast, over fifty of
27:21
Speaker 1: our sales were too homes, not just two offices. On
27:26
Speaker 1: the East coast it was large, at least with with
27:30
Speaker 1: Deer Parket was all Teamsters unions. On the West coast
27:33
Speaker 1: there was very there were pockets of union largely non
27:37
Speaker 1: union and on the West Coast. I was just shocked
27:41
Speaker 1: when I first got there that there were bulges in
27:45
Speaker 1: the pockets of our route sales reps. I was saying,
27:49
Speaker 1: what are you, what are you? What are in your pockets? Well,
27:53
Speaker 1: they all had massive amounts of keys, and I'd say
27:58
Speaker 1: that up to half of their accounts. The people had
28:02
Speaker 1: given them the keys to their home, the house keys,
28:05
Speaker 1: house keys. If they weren't home, they could bring the
28:08
Speaker 1: bottle into the kitchen or wherever the water cooler was,
28:12
Speaker 1: take off an empty, put on a full, or put
28:15
Speaker 1: it inside the house. And to take this to the
28:18
Speaker 1: next level, when we did research on how did customers
28:26
Speaker 1: who had a relationship with the route rep how did
28:30
Speaker 1: they view our company versus customers who didn't have a
28:34
Speaker 1: relationship and didn't see the route wrap on on a
28:38
Speaker 1: frequent basis when they were making deliveries. Well, if they
28:42
Speaker 1: saw the route wrap, the water tasted better, the road
28:46
Speaker 1: truck was cleaner, the water cooler, the water dispatched was
28:51
Speaker 1: warmer and colder. Everything was better. The the quit rate
28:57
Speaker 1: amongst those customers who saw the route rep on a
29:00
Speaker 1: regular basis was dramatically lower than the quit rate was
29:06
Speaker 1: of people who didn't see the route. No substitute for
29:09
Speaker 1: pressing the flesh, none whatsoever. So back to this, I
29:14
Speaker 1: made sure that every one of our senior managers were
29:19
Speaker 1: out on a route at least every three months, and
29:22
Speaker 1: they had to deliver half the bottles, and they had
29:25
Speaker 1: to go to all the different parts of the country.
29:27
Speaker 1: So they had to be in the summer in Phoenix,
29:30
Speaker 1: they had to be in the winter in Pennsylvania. They
29:34
Speaker 1: had to they had to live what those route reps
29:37
Speaker 1: were doing on on a daily basis. Every one of
29:41
Speaker 1: the senior managers had to be in the call center
29:44
Speaker 1: we were taking we had when I got toward the
29:49
Speaker 1: end of when I was there, we had over eight
29:52
Speaker 1: hundred thousand UH customers. We were taking hundred calls a day.
29:58
Speaker 1: They had to go in, answered calls with the customers,
30:02
Speaker 1: find out what the issues were, and really live what
30:06
Speaker 1: the frontline people were experiencing. And all of a sudden,
30:11
Speaker 1: the people said, Wow, they really are paying attention to
30:14
Speaker 1: what we're doing. And across the board, the managers were
30:18
Speaker 1: much smarter about what needed to change from the policies
30:23
Speaker 1: we currently had in place. So, so you said I'm
30:26
Speaker 1: gonna I didn't answer, by the way, you're so, let's
30:29
Speaker 1: stay with that. Because so, how do you fire a
30:32
Speaker 1: thousand people and make it not be the most miserable
30:35
Speaker 1: experience for everybody involved? Well, first of all, I had
30:40
Speaker 1: to paint the picture of what was wrong with the organization.
30:45
Speaker 1: Nobody is going to be comfortable with that level of
30:50
Speaker 1: staff reduction if there isn't a clear reason why you're
30:55
Speaker 1: doing it, and you describe in the book, you have
30:59
Speaker 1: two hundred thirty people in the finance division for a
31:02
Speaker 1: company with two thirty million dollars in sales, it's probably
31:07
Speaker 1: ten times what you need to run that best. We
31:11
Speaker 1: the way the company was grew it was through acquisition,
31:15
Speaker 1: and there was never a time when they integrated all
31:19
Speaker 1: of the companies. It was a hodgepart so if if
31:23
Speaker 1: I wanted to buy another company, I would have to
31:26
Speaker 1: set up another SPU. So we had seven separate spu
31:30
Speaker 1: s strategic business units doing the same thing seven different ways,
31:36
Speaker 1: with seven separate chart of accounts, and a consolidation finance
31:40
Speaker 1: group that put it into language that could go to
31:43
Speaker 1: McKesson Corporate. It was way way overstaffed, So so you
31:47
Speaker 1: paint a picture and you basically get everybody, if not
31:51
Speaker 1: to buy in, at least understand the company's going out
31:55
Speaker 1: of business. And if we don't make major changes, everyone
31:59
Speaker 1: loses their jobs. So it makes that easier how but
32:03
Speaker 1: there was one other thing. I didn't do this myself.
32:07
Speaker 1: A I had smart people around me, and we set
32:10
Speaker 1: up across the board task forces made up of the
32:16
Speaker 1: frontline people to come back with their own recommendation. That
32:19
Speaker 1: was really interesting in the book What needed to Change,
32:23
Speaker 1: where some people said, hey, my own position is duplicated
32:28
Speaker 1: three places some of us. That's amazing to get employees
32:32
Speaker 1: to say you need to either fire me or fire
32:35
Speaker 1: people like me because there are too many of us
32:37
Speaker 1: for the amount of business we have. How does how
32:40
Speaker 1: do you do this? At a as a coach, you
32:44
Speaker 1: describe the exit you had from the Lakers after what
32:47
Speaker 1: is it ten years, eleven years, three championships? So so
32:52
Speaker 1: you said that was like a graceful How often have
32:55
Speaker 1: you fired? And you'll get out and leave? But basically
32:59
Speaker 1: everybody done really good terms and as tearful as it was.
33:04
Speaker 1: What was the life lesson Jerry West tought you when
33:07
Speaker 1: you left? Well, you know the one thing you know,
33:10
Speaker 1: Jerry West the logo taught me as you don't burn bridges.
33:13
Speaker 1: The logo for people who aren't basketball fans, anytime you
33:17
Speaker 1: see the NBA logo, that is Jerry West. Jerry West,
33:20
Speaker 1: and so his nickname the logo is the logo. We
33:24
Speaker 1: called him that very affectionately, but it was it was
33:28
Speaker 1: crazy because he brought me into the Lakers. He made
33:30
Speaker 1: a trade that was very unpopular at the time. Uh,
33:34
Speaker 1: and you know, we end up winning three more championships.
33:36
Speaker 1: And then when he brought you in, he pulls you
33:39
Speaker 1: aside and says, hey, everybody hates me for this trade,
33:43
Speaker 1: and in three years they're gonna call this the greatest
33:45
Speaker 1: trade I've made. How does that make you feel? When
33:48
Speaker 1: you're nervous, your rookie, you're starting out, well, the first
33:51
Speaker 1: thing that does, Barry puts a whole lot of pressure
33:53
Speaker 1: on you, you know what I mean. And it was
33:54
Speaker 1: great for me because I knew that at that particular
33:57
Speaker 1: time that he had a lot of faith in me,
33:59
Speaker 1: and also knew that I wasn't gonna let him down,
34:01
Speaker 1: you know, because he stuck his neck out for me.
34:03
Speaker 1: So uh. It was a and it still is, an
34:05
Speaker 1: unbelievable relationship that I had with the logo. Uh. But
34:09
Speaker 1: when he wanted to change directions, you know, it was
34:13
Speaker 1: very tearful for both of us. And I knew he
34:15
Speaker 1: was doing it because it's a business decision that had
34:17
Speaker 1: nothing to do with being personal about it. And I
34:20
Speaker 1: also knew that, you know, because of the way he
34:22
Speaker 1: had treated me or I was going to leave on
34:24
Speaker 1: very good terms. You know, even though I wanted to
34:26
Speaker 1: still be a Laker for life, I understood the business
34:29
Speaker 1: of basketball. There's sometimes these decisions have to be made.
34:32
Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Byron Scott of the l
34:34
Speaker 1: A Lakers and Charlie Norris of Fresh Pet and McKesson Water.
34:39
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this conversation, check out our podcast after Us,
34:42
Speaker 1: where we keep the tape rolling. You can find that
34:45
Speaker 1: at Apple iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. Read my
34:50
Speaker 1: daily column at Bloomberg View dot com, or follow me
34:53
Speaker 1: on Twitter at rid Holts. I'm Barry Ridholts. You've been
34:56
Speaker 1: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. What could
35:00
Speaker 1: your future hold? More than you think? Because at Merrill
35:03
Speaker 1: Lynch we work with you to create a strategy built
35:05
Speaker 1: around your priorities. Visit mL dot com and learn more
35:08
Speaker 1: about Merrill Lynch. An affiliated Bank of America. Merrill Lynch
35:10
Speaker 1: makes available products and services offered by Merrill Lynch. Pierce
35:13
Speaker 1: Federan Smith, Incorporated, a register broker dealer. Remember s I PC.
35:15
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast. Thank you guys for doing this.
35:18
Speaker 1: It's it's a privilege and it's I find this sort
35:20
Speaker 1: of stuff a lot of fun. I really enjoy doing this.
35:23
Speaker 1: I know I only have you for a short period
35:25
Speaker 1: of time. There was one question I did not get
35:28
Speaker 1: to and this applies to both you. You tell the
35:31
Speaker 1: story Byron early in the book about after the trade,
35:36
Speaker 1: the Lakers make it through the Western Um Conference finals,
35:41
Speaker 1: and you go back into the locker room and you're
35:42
Speaker 1: ready to celebrate and their old business and the team
35:47
Speaker 1: culture as we only sell celebrate winning championships. You sell Charles,
35:53
Speaker 1: you sell McKesson for over a billion dollars when you
35:56
Speaker 1: had basically taken over a company that was a mess
35:58
Speaker 1: a few years earlier. At what point do you after
36:03
Speaker 1: you achieve that level of success do you stop and say,
36:07
Speaker 1: now what I mean? Is it anticlimactic? How do you
36:10
Speaker 1: keep motivated after you do what you set out to do?
36:15
Speaker 1: I remember reading about Michael Jordan's having, you know, the
36:18
Speaker 1: whole gambling discussion was he needed something else after the
36:22
Speaker 1: third or fourth or fifth or sixth championship. He needed
36:26
Speaker 1: something else to motivate him. How do you keep motivated
36:30
Speaker 1: after you achieve your goals? Well? For me, you know, uh,
36:35
Speaker 1: winning is the ultimate motivation factor for me um in
36:39
Speaker 1: that eight four when we got to the finals and
36:41
Speaker 1: I wanted to run in the locker room and celebrate
36:43
Speaker 1: and magic, and all the guys kind of looked at
36:45
Speaker 1: me crazy. It's like, no, no, no, we we don't
36:47
Speaker 1: celebrate Western Conference champions We celebrate NBA champions And that
36:51
Speaker 1: year we lost to the Celtics, you know, my rookie year.
36:54
Speaker 1: So the next year was much easier, obviously to get
36:56
Speaker 1: wrapped up for because you just had a disappointing season
36:59
Speaker 1: and in our rise, you know, getting to the finals
37:01
Speaker 1: and losing wasn't you know, was it was a failure
37:04
Speaker 1: season for season for us. So the next year we
37:07
Speaker 1: win the championship. And I think after every time that
37:10
Speaker 1: we won a championship, I wanted to win another one,
37:12
Speaker 1: you know. And and that's that's the the mark of
37:16
Speaker 1: of of a great champion is that you you're just
37:18
Speaker 1: not living on your laurels. You're not thinking about what
37:20
Speaker 1: you just did in the pass. You're worried about the
37:23
Speaker 1: next year and the next year and the next year.
37:25
Speaker 1: And the guys I played with, it wasn't very difficult
37:29
Speaker 1: to get up for that next year. You know, those
37:31
Speaker 1: guys were all driven, just like I was, and we
37:33
Speaker 1: want to win. We wanted to win as many championships
37:36
Speaker 1: as possible. Ronney Lot, who I know, you know, a
37:39
Speaker 1: very good friend of mine, and when he was with
37:41
Speaker 1: the forty nine before they went on their championship runs,
37:44
Speaker 1: you know, we were talking one day and he asked
37:46
Speaker 1: me the same question, what keeps you guys going? And
37:49
Speaker 1: I said, but we only got a short amount of
37:51
Speaker 1: time in this profession, you win as many as you
37:53
Speaker 1: can while you can take advantage of the situation. And
37:57
Speaker 1: I remember he did a Sports Illustrated story and told
38:00
Speaker 1: the guy the exact same thing that we had talked about,
38:03
Speaker 1: you know, So that was my motivation. Factors that nobody remembers,
38:06
Speaker 1: Barry how many points I scored in my career. But
38:09
Speaker 1: every time my name comes up in the conversation, they'll
38:12
Speaker 1: say how many championships did you win? Two? Or three? Four?
38:14
Speaker 1: And they're always really close, you know, But if I
38:17
Speaker 1: asked them three as a players, didn't win As a coach,
38:22
Speaker 1: I went. I went to twice. But they always remember
38:25
Speaker 1: how many championships you won. Nobody remembers unless you are
38:29
Speaker 1: really a basketball history geek. That I scored over fifteen
38:33
Speaker 1: thousand points in my career, and I was on a
38:35
Speaker 1: team with three unbelievable Hall of famers, really four, because
38:38
Speaker 1: Bob was on the team as well. You started eighty
38:42
Speaker 1: two consecutive games? Was it three seasons? Is that? Is
38:46
Speaker 1: that right? I think three out of four seasons started
38:50
Speaker 1: well today, Yeah, because guys rest all the time. You
38:52
Speaker 1: know again, going back un who seems to be running well,
38:57
Speaker 1: you know what, Lebron is the only guy to me
38:59
Speaker 1: and the league that can say if I need a
39:01
Speaker 1: day off, that nobody should ever question. And he runs
39:04
Speaker 1: more minutes than any other more more minutes per game
39:08
Speaker 1: than anybody. He's went to the final six straight years.
39:11
Speaker 1: I mean, you know how hard that is, So nobody
39:13
Speaker 1: should ever complain if Lebron James came out and said, uh,
39:17
Speaker 1: you know what, guys, I'm gonna take the day off,
39:19
Speaker 1: there should not be one person in the world that says, oh,
39:22
Speaker 1: that and that's not right. He's the only guy to
39:24
Speaker 1: me right now in the NBA that can say I
39:27
Speaker 1: want a day off, and there shouldn't be a question
39:29
Speaker 1: about could he play back in your era? Do you
39:31
Speaker 1: think Lebron James could get in the time machine go
39:34
Speaker 1: back to the eighties and be competitive in that time period. Absolutely,
39:39
Speaker 1: because a lot of players that you could say that
39:41
Speaker 1: about I don't either, you know, Kobe Bryant was one
39:44
Speaker 1: that I thought was a old school, you know type shack.
39:48
Speaker 1: Lebron James is definitely one of those guys that would
39:50
Speaker 1: still be uh in Hall of Famer in the eighties
39:53
Speaker 1: because he has all the skills. He has the magic
39:55
Speaker 1: Johnson skills of being able to see the floor, make
39:57
Speaker 1: players better that are around him, and when need be,
40:01
Speaker 1: can take over games. So Lebron, yes, absolutely, So we
40:04
Speaker 1: were talking about not spiking it in the end zone.
40:07
Speaker 1: After you have a big success, What do you do
40:09
Speaker 1: after you sell a company for more than a billion dollars,
40:12
Speaker 1: you get yourself a nice paid a how do you
40:15
Speaker 1: not say, Okay, I'm the best, I don't need to
40:19
Speaker 1: do anything else. What what's the next step for you? Charlie? Well,
40:23
Speaker 1: in my case, I was exhausted through that whole process
40:29
Speaker 1: of turning around McKesson water sleepless nights you describe. It
40:34
Speaker 1: was not easy. It's not easy, and you know, we
40:38
Speaker 1: were talking about eliminating a thousand positions. That was a
40:42
Speaker 1: horrible thing, right, but you still everyone has survivor's guild. UH.
40:50
Speaker 1: The company had UH certainly a culture of embracing, not
41:01
Speaker 1: uh willie nilly firing people. They always found a new home.
41:06
Speaker 1: And UH it was the whole that whole experience was
41:10
Speaker 1: just a really difficult one, UH on the heels of
41:15
Speaker 1: a similar thing with Deer Park. And so I took
41:19
Speaker 1: a year where I UH thought what did I want
41:23
Speaker 1: to do next? And my family decided we we ended
41:29
Speaker 1: up having a set up a donor advised trust with
41:34
Speaker 1: the California Community Foundation because we wanted to become much
41:38
Speaker 1: more active in philanthropy. UH and UH during that year,
41:44
Speaker 1: I started to reach we we did a business plan
41:48
Speaker 1: for philanthropy, and my wife and my two kids and
41:52
Speaker 1: I each had our own areas and we started to
41:55
Speaker 1: go out and and look at uh different organizations to
42:01
Speaker 1: see which ones we wanted to support. And in my case,
42:04
Speaker 1: I was involved with children at risk and job creation
42:10
Speaker 1: and we actually created a prototype of a UM operation
42:18
Speaker 1: that combined UH life skills training with sport and at
42:23
Speaker 1: the end of that if if the kids did both
42:26
Speaker 1: the life skills training and U participated in the work
42:31
Speaker 1: at the sport workouts, which were basketball. We gave them
42:34
Speaker 1: a hundred hours of a paid internship at a company
42:38
Speaker 1: so they would start to get a feeling about what
42:42
Speaker 1: it was like working and they all ended up having
42:46
Speaker 1: better grades. And Byron is the poster childhood this as well,
42:50
Speaker 1: because he does tremendous work with a summer basketball camps
42:55
Speaker 1: and again is doing the same type of things. So
42:59
Speaker 1: that was an area. Uh. And then I started to
43:03
Speaker 1: think about what I wanted to do next, and with
43:07
Speaker 1: the help of a friend of mine, Rick Kane, who
43:10
Speaker 1: um founded Kane Capital Advisors, we started to buy businesses
43:15
Speaker 1: and I started to get on boards, and I was
43:19
Speaker 1: still very active in business, but not the day to
43:23
Speaker 1: day responsible person for you know, running it. When you say,
43:27
Speaker 1: people look at you two is so different because visually
43:31
Speaker 1: you're different. But you know, I have the advantage of
43:35
Speaker 1: having spoken with you for forty five minutes. It's pretty
43:38
Speaker 1: obvious why there's a friendship here, and there's an overlap
43:41
Speaker 1: and interest because you guys really are cut from the
43:44
Speaker 1: same cloth, even though you're coming from completely different places.
43:48
Speaker 1: I only have you that well, it's apparent just listening
43:53
Speaker 1: to you both talk with such enthusiasm about the things
43:56
Speaker 1: you're talking about and it makes you realize how people
44:00
Speaker 1: are superficial. He's a white guy in a black eye.
44:02
Speaker 1: Oh they must be completely different people. Not really, but
44:06
Speaker 1: you know what with what we've done and and uh,
44:10
Speaker 1: Byron Um is brilliant about taking a moment, taking a
44:16
Speaker 1: deep breath, and then saying I'm going forward, I'm not
44:19
Speaker 1: going backward. And literally one day after his coaching with
44:25
Speaker 1: the Lakers ended, he was already into what where am
44:29
Speaker 1: I going next? What where am I going to do?
44:32
Speaker 1: And if if you're wired like that, I will never
44:36
Speaker 1: not be doing something and trying to do it at
44:39
Speaker 1: the best that I possibly can. And Byron is a
44:42
Speaker 1: hundred like that. In the book, you reference getting to
44:47
Speaker 1: know the various people when you came into McKesson, and
44:50
Speaker 1: you reference knowing everybody who worked in the forum practically
44:54
Speaker 1: from the hot dog salespeople to the people swept the
44:57
Speaker 1: floor at night. What is the mean to running a business,
45:01
Speaker 1: running a company to really know your staff, your suppliers,
45:05
Speaker 1: your competitors, your clients. How important is that? Well? I
45:09
Speaker 1: think it's extremely important. Um. And like Charlie said, I
45:12
Speaker 1: try to treat everybody the way I want to be treated.
45:15
Speaker 1: Uh So, getting to notice security guards at the form
45:18
Speaker 1: when we walk in and know their backgrounds and know
45:21
Speaker 1: their family members and know what type of uh things
45:24
Speaker 1: they have in store and what they want to achieve
45:26
Speaker 1: in life. Is getting them to understand that you do
45:28
Speaker 1: really care about them. And it's the same with your players. Uh,
45:32
Speaker 1: it's the same with my coaches, you know. So I
45:34
Speaker 1: make it a point uh to get to know them
45:36
Speaker 1: on a personal level as well as a professional level.
45:39
Speaker 1: And you know what, to be honest with you, all
45:41
Speaker 1: these years that I had been doing that, I didn't
45:43
Speaker 1: know that that was a form of being a great leader.
45:46
Speaker 1: It was just something that came natural to me. And
45:48
Speaker 1: tell I met Charlie and we started writing down some
45:50
Speaker 1: of the things that we thought would make a great leader.
45:53
Speaker 1: And when he started telling me, you know, we have
45:55
Speaker 1: to get to the heads and hearts of people and
45:57
Speaker 1: be you do it naturally, then I start really thinking
46:00
Speaker 1: about it. You know. But it was something that just
46:02
Speaker 1: really came natural to me because I think it was
46:03
Speaker 1: something that was instilled to me at a very early
46:06
Speaker 1: age by my mom and my dad. Uh, you know
46:08
Speaker 1: that old saying, Like my mom used to say, you know,
46:10
Speaker 1: you treat people the way you want to be treated,
46:12
Speaker 1: and that's how I kind of took it. And so
46:14
Speaker 1: getting to know that the guy at the hot dogs stand,
46:16
Speaker 1: getting another guy us to selling the T shirts, getting
46:19
Speaker 1: to know the guy that's on the floor that's one
46:21
Speaker 1: of the security guys in the in the red jackets,
46:23
Speaker 1: getting to know Tony, our man at the at the
46:25
Speaker 1: security when we would come into the lake a facility
46:27
Speaker 1: to work out. You know, they appreciate that because now
46:31
Speaker 1: you make them feel they're important, and they are. And
46:34
Speaker 1: I thought that was very important that every job that
46:36
Speaker 1: I've been to to get to know the other people.
46:39
Speaker 1: Are the people that really make the company running in
46:42
Speaker 1: in Charlie's case, or make that arena really work. Are
46:45
Speaker 1: the people that people don't see on an everyday basis. Now,
46:48
Speaker 1: I'll take it one step further, and I think this
46:51
Speaker 1: supplies to Byron's world as well as mine. Um with
46:56
Speaker 1: mckets and Water Products Company, we had dread employees and
47:01
Speaker 1: a very high percentage of them touched the end user
47:05
Speaker 1: every single day. And if you can't have those people
47:10
Speaker 1: feel comfortable telling you whether your programs are working or
47:15
Speaker 1: not working, what needs to change If they don't feel
47:20
Speaker 1: that you care about what they're saying. Then you've lost it.
47:24
Speaker 1: You have no chance of being successful, uh, running that business.
47:29
Speaker 1: And we got to the point where we stopped doing
47:33
Speaker 1: customer satisfaction surveys. All we did were employees satisfaction surveys
47:39
Speaker 1: because I knew if the employees were happy, if they
47:43
Speaker 1: felt that they were heard, the customer would would be
47:47
Speaker 1: happy with our product and service. Discipline basically brings different
47:52
Speaker 1: related ideas that you get to apply in a in
47:54
Speaker 1: a different way. Yeah, I'll give you an example of
47:57
Speaker 1: one thing that we talked about that because of timing
48:02
Speaker 1: being never got to incorporate, but we were. We were
48:07
Speaker 1: one day talking about, uh, it's in many ways pot
48:12
Speaker 1: luck with the draft and and uh what uh uh
48:18
Speaker 1: the drafted player, how well that person might fit in
48:22
Speaker 1: with the organization once they're there. And I said, have
48:26
Speaker 1: you ever considered psychological testing of the prospective draftees before
48:32
Speaker 1: you actually go out and draft them? And he said, no,
48:35
Speaker 1: we've never done that. And so we started talking about
48:38
Speaker 1: how we use it when we're hiring in business and
48:42
Speaker 1: and Byron thought, you know, this is something I really
48:45
Speaker 1: want to bring to what I'm doing. So that was
48:47
Speaker 1: that was an example, where uh, from my end to
48:52
Speaker 1: to his, it was clearly an opportunity that hadn't been
48:55
Speaker 1: considered before. So so what should the This is true
48:59
Speaker 1: for professional sports. There was a big Sports Illustrated article
49:05
Speaker 1: about ten years ago about the number of football players
49:07
Speaker 1: were and this was before the whole um concussion trauma
49:13
Speaker 1: issue became Yeah, I mean in in the in the NFL,
49:16
Speaker 1: you have the issue of uh, the average lifespan of
49:20
Speaker 1: an offensive alignment is some ridiculously early twenty years exactly.
49:29
Speaker 1: I mean, so what should they What should professional sports
49:32
Speaker 1: leagues be doing two develop some financial literacy for for
49:37
Speaker 1: their places. I know, I know what the problems are
49:40
Speaker 1: with the collective bargaining agreements, and I know what the
49:45
Speaker 1: agents are allowed to do are not allowed to do.
49:48
Speaker 1: But at some point I think it would be really
49:51
Speaker 1: important for the league to and for the unions to
49:56
Speaker 1: find a way to manage force players to uh manage
50:03
Speaker 1: money better. Uh. Perhaps there'd be a way to hold
50:07
Speaker 1: back a certain percentage, like having a four oh one
50:11
Speaker 1: K or some other plan of that nature, and make
50:15
Speaker 1: it a forced requirement to ensure that the players have
50:22
Speaker 1: money five years or seven years after retirements. Easy enough
50:26
Speaker 1: to to build something like that well, But on the
50:28
Speaker 1: other hand, you want to treat everybody as an adult,
50:32
Speaker 1: and it has to be done in a way that
50:35
Speaker 1: everyone believes it's in their best interest. And I think
50:38
Speaker 1: that's that's the hardest thing, to get them to feel
50:42
Speaker 1: that they're not going to live forever in play forty
50:45
Speaker 1: years in the NBA or in the NFL or whatever,
50:49
Speaker 1: that they have to do this to secure their future. Gentlemen,
50:53
Speaker 1: this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much
50:56
Speaker 1: for being so generous with your time. We have been
50:59
Speaker 1: speaking to the authors of Slam Dunk Success, Leading from
51:04
Speaker 1: Every Position on Life's Court, written by Byron Scott and
51:08
Speaker 1: Charlie Norris. If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and
51:11
Speaker 1: look up and entered down an Inch on Apple iTunes
51:14
Speaker 1: or Bloomberg dot Com or SoundCloud for our other hundred
51:18
Speaker 1: and forty nine or so of these conversations. I would
51:22
Speaker 1: be remiss if I did not thank my head of research,
51:25
Speaker 1: Michael bat Nick, my producer booker Taylor Riggs, my recording
51:31
Speaker 1: engineer Medina Parwana. I'm Barry Ridhults. You have been listening
51:35
Speaker 1: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. Our world is
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