Latest / The Cyber Savvy Woman / Culture Over Code: How Leaders Build Trust in a Digital World| The Cyber Savvy Woman |Ep 113

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Culture Over Code: How Leaders Build Trust in a Digital World| The Cyber Savvy Woman |Ep 113 · The Cyber Savvy Woman

• 0:00
  Hey, welcome to the cyber savvy woman where women business owners reclaim their power in the digital world
• 0:06
  We shatter the myth that cyber security is too complex to master and transform protection strategies into clear
• 0:13
  Actionable guidance. This is your digital empowerment sanctuary where cyber fear becomes cyber confidence
• 0:20
  Whether you're protecting client trust as a therapist or safeguarding financial data as an advisor
• 0:26
  You'll hear from women founders who've conquered digital challenges and security experts who speak your language
• 0:32
  Every woman leading a business deserves to feel unshakable in her digital decisions. No matter her technical background
• 0:39
  Are you ready to stop letting cyber security intimidate you and start letting it elevate you?
• 0:46
  Here's your host Rachel Shanker
• 0:48
  Welcome back to the cyber savvy woman where we talk about practical ways women can protect themselves their businesses and their future in our increasingly digital world
• 0:58
  I'm your host Rachel Shanker, a Silicon Valley technologist and owner of the award-winning managed service provider CMIT Solutions of San Mateo
• 1:06
  Today we're talking with Anthony Kaleo founder of Kaleo EX a culture and employee experience consultant who helps organizations build stronger relationships with women
• 1:16
  Helps organizations build stronger teams healthier workplaces and more effective leadership
• 1:22
  We'll explore how culture technology and leadership intersect and what women business leaders can learn about driving change building trust and making smarter decisions in a digital world
• 1:32
  Anthony welcome to the show now. I'm thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me
• 1:36
  Yeah for listeners meeting you for the first time tell us about Kaleo EX and what inspired you to start it
• 1:43
  It inspired me to start it. I started off as a learning and development professional
• 1:48
  And then learned very early on in my career that you know, we can create these beautiful meaningful training experiences, but it's what's happening out there that really really matters
• 2:00
  And so I slowly but surely got more involved in culture and got involved in people and people operations and really over time got into this sense of I wanted to be in the HR people space as an advocate for the employees, right?
• 2:17
  And not just shills for management to be perfectly blunt
• 2:21
  So I have had those really neat opportunities through various industries and companies, but really decided to go out on my own and you know, apply what I've learned and actually just help organizations or more importantly teach organizations how to create workplaces where everyone wants to show up to every day
• 2:40
  Yeah, I like that and so, you know pre-call conversation you shared with me how this is your brainchild. What kind of companies do you love working with most and who is share with us about your ideal client?
• 2:52
  Yeah, I appreciate the question. So I definitely love working with founders, you know founders are in a different place when it comes to culture right and scaling so conversations that are usually around coaching and presence and just being you know, a supportive ear in that capacity
• 3:09
  In the small to medium sized business space, you know, I'm industry agnostic. It really is for me finding owners that are really interested in creating exceptional places to work, right?
• 3:25
  And you know for me, I look at it from two lenses. One, I believe you have a moral obligation to treat your people well if you have employees, but there's also a business imperative too. Happy employees means happy customers both internal and external. That's certainly not my original idea. There's a lot of people that talk about that, but I'm certainly a huge advocate for that.
• 3:49
  So, you know, it's for small to medium sized businesses that are, you know, either thinking about scaling or maybe feeling stuck and they're not entirely sure why they're stuck. I guarantee you that there's something happening below the surface with culture and employee experience.
• 4:02
  Yeah, and you know you talk about helping organizations build their culture where their employees can bring their authentic selves. What does that actually look like in real life? How can employees show up or team members show up with their authentic self?
• 4:17
  Yeah, that's such a great, great question. And it's really the environment that leadership or the owners create, right, that allow people to go in and not fear. I mean, you know, many of us, I've certainly throughout my corporate career, particularly early on, you know, would show up with a mask, right? So I would say not what I felt, but what I thought my leader or manager wanted to hear, right? Or what my clients wanted to hear.
• 4:42
  And that gets incredibly exhausting. So when you have an environment where your employees can show up with no masks and just be their authentic selves, they're going to really prosper and shine, right? And so for me, it really starts with leadership and what are the intentions they're setting? What's the worst thing that they'll tolerate? Because that defines the bottom of their culture, right?
• 5:04
  Right. Yeah. So I imagine that looks like, for me, when I think of that, it looks like a place where, is it more collaborative, like people can bring their ideas, their choices, their, you know, what kind of works for them? You know, it sounds like a very inviting environment, as opposed to, this is where you work, this is how you work, this is what you need to do, but more maybe open ended.
• 5:28
  No, indeed it does. And that's a great, your question was like, well, how does it show up? Yeah. Collaboration is sort of the side benefit of having that type of environment where people aren't afraid to speak up, you know, in an environment where when leaders make suggestions, they don't become orders, right?
• 5:44
  Right. Which is, you know, kind of the paradigm in a lot of organizations. And so it's, you know, yes, it opens up collaboration, it opens up participation, it opens up retention, it opens up all the, you know, a number of things.
• 5:56
  Yeah, I like that. You know, when you work with technical teams, and have you seen how tech projects can maybe fail when sometimes people don't understand why something is changing? How do you handle that kind of change management with teams that are maybe more linear thinkers and want things to be happening in a certain way and don't understand why that change is happening?
• 6:21
  Yeah, yeah. And I think like technology, any project, but technology projects in particular are like the ultimate change management, right?
• 6:28
  Yes, yeah, agreed.
• 6:30
  Because not only do you want to involve, you know, the immediate team, and maybe the leadership that you're reporting to, but you want to involve your end users into the process, right?
• 6:42
  Right.
• 6:44
  So it's the ultimate change management. And I think, you know, that's where I've seen a lot of technical things fail, and you hit it right on the head. The other thing I think with technical projects or any kind of technical initiative is we get so caught up on the technology and the button pressing, we don't get into what you mentioned, which is the why. Why does it work the way it works, right?
• 7:04
  Yeah, right, right.
• 7:07
  And then there's the whole, and I know we talked about this when we spoke a few weeks back, the whole build it and they will come, you know, approach, which never works.
• 7:15
  Yeah, right, exactly.
• 7:18
  It's like, you know, we know what you need, and we're going to give it to you, right? That is not, you know, that's not, you know, forget about change management. At that point, you just need damage control.
• 7:28
  Yeah, yeah, you really need to understand, because what I found in my corporate career was that there were some, you know, subject matter experts who had this knowledge tucked away in their head that they knew, you know, some sequences or some things that happened to make other things happen, and it wasn't documented anywhere.
• 7:48
  And so you really need to like pull that out. So getting them on board to, you know, find out what the actual process is, so is critical. And that's such a skill set. I find requirement gathering, change management, you know, you really have to be a person who can pivot to who you're talking with, you know, I'm assuming what's kind of a trick or tool that you have to kind of help get, you know, get everybody on board and pulling out those requirements.
• 8:16
  Yeah, you know, I was, I'll answer that question with what I was thinking about.
• 8:20
  Yeah, sure.
• 8:21
  When you were just speaking, which is very early on in my tenure at a bank that I was at, we were rolling out a major initiative. And so they had, you know, the new guy who didn't have history go out and talk to some of the leaders. And, you know, one leader just without even me prompting him, one leader just, you know, just literally just met him, turned to me and said, you know, I'm not resistant to change.
• 8:46
  I'm really not. And I think he knew he was being labeled as being resistant.
• 8:51
  But he said, to your point, he goes, I know all these different processes and procedures that we currently have. And no one's come to me to ask, right, because he was perceived as somebody who was resistant to change.
• 9:05
  So they didn't bother asking, because in their view, it's like, well, if we avoid him, we're going to avoid the resistance to change, which is really not right. So to answer your question, you have to ask all the stakeholders. And listen, you might, you know, you might 100% disagree with what they're saying.
• 9:23
  But at least you're hearing them out. And if you involve them in the process, and to your point, from before, if they understand the why, they don't have to agree with the why. That's like a mistake, like where you have to get everybody on board and everyone's agreeing with the why.
• 9:37
  If you give them the respect of explaining to them, listen, this is what we designed and why we designed it, why it works the way it works. They might not agree with it, but at least you give them the impression of at least you give them the respect and the input.
• 9:52
  And quite frankly, maybe learn a thing or two along the way. All right, and you involve them, you involve them in the in the process. So really, the trick is just ask, ask all your key stakeholders. And I know, like, the number one enemy, I think is not really, it's not bad intentions. It's really the enemy is usually time, right? We don't have time to do all the gathering and we don't have time to do all of this.
• 10:13
  Let me tell you something, and I know you know this as a technologist, if you don't spend that time upfront, you're going to spend it elsewhere, right?
• 10:20
  Yes, yeah, in the back end.
• 10:21
  Mitigating nightmares and headaches.
• 10:24
  Yeah, for sure. That's definitely true. You know, you've shared that your ideal engagement isn't necessarily so one day leadership training, you really you do like digging into those real root causes. What does a great engagement look like for you when you tell us when you work with a client kind of talk us through what the process is?
• 10:46
  Yeah, usually it's the number one is figuring out what the ground truth is, right? What's really happening in the organization? More often than not, when I meet with a client, what I'm hearing is really the symptoms of some larger issues that are happening.
• 10:59
  So it's really, really getting to the ground truth. And to answer your question of who's my ideal client, it's the ones that are willing to go there.
• 11:06
  The ones that are willing to, you know, find out what the ground truth is. And you usually know that very early on in a process once you do the needs assessment. And listen, that can be for small teams, it could be, you know, one on one conversations.
• 11:18
  And people are incredibly candid in those conversations, particularly when you have somebody from the outside coming in, or it could be, you know, using platforms like culture amp or surveying for larger organizations.
• 11:31
  Once you gather that what I call ground truth from different inputs, not just from surveys, when you're presenting that and reading it out, you can you know what kind of engagement it's going to be based on the defensiveness.
• 11:45
  More often than not, honestly, people initially start getting angry. And they get extremely defensive. If you can't get over that defensiveness, that's probably not a great engagement for me or anybody to be involved in, right? Because they just don't want to hear the ground truth.
• 11:59
  Yeah. So once you kind of understand what the root cause is, and you're developing a solution, do you stay with them all the way through to implementation? Or sometimes do you, are you just providing solutions for them? Or how far does your engagement go with them?
• 12:13
  I will stay with them solutions. And my, you know, my thing is like, you know, don't feed them a fish, teach them how to fish, right? So that's a big part of my engagement is building as we learn together and co create together is building capacity, right?
• 12:27
  And then I can eventually move on. And maybe it means that they have to staff up and bring in some employee experience. Maybe it means they have to staff up and upskill their current, you know, current employees or current teams.
• 12:39
  Not all of them actually have full fledged HR teams. Some of some of them is, you know, somebody else inside that company wearing that hat. But it's really leaving them in a good place, right? Yeah. Where they can continue to maintain is, you know, what so I don't even like, you know, I used I kind of let the word help slip out. But I really love to teach organizations how to show up, teach organizations and individuals how to show up the best version of themselves every day is really the way I focus on it.
• 13:06
  So to me, the ideal engagements, let's find out what the ground truth is. Because if not, it's sort of that same thing with a technology project where you're doing the needs gathering, right? Like, what's the business outcome? What are the business needs? How do the end users operate, right? Really putting yourself in the seat. Same thing, except we're pointing that inward.
• 13:23
  And so what is the biggest mistake a leader could make when they're trying to fix their culture? Like they know there's an issue, but they want to change it. You know, what do you see when they like take a left turn? You're like, Oh, gosh, we should be going the other way, the scope of involvement that it requires from him, right? And I was just talking to somebody the other day about this with like mergers and acquisitions, right? So you have like an M&A that happened. And usually it's like, you know, months of closing the deal. And then they have, you know, the C suites have a really nice steak dinner. And then they throw in the money. And you're like, Oh, gosh, we should be going the other way.
• 13:53
  Yeah.
• 14:23
  Yeah.
• 14:54
  That's so true. Would you say most of the time they are on board? Or have you had that experience where you just there just can't get involved? I mean, or do you bet it? Are you really good at betting it? Maybe you're good at betting.
• 15:08
  And I think that's just like when you're onboarding a client, you really you really know, and I don't mind, you know, not your question. But my advice to anyone I ever talked to is, you know, we've, you know, we've all got bills to pay when it comes down to it, right? And we want our businesses to prosper. But if you wind up taking on a project that you're not aligned with, the amount of friction that you're going to wind up managing is not worth the money, right?
• 15:32
  So I don't like, you know, I know, everyone, you know, I don't like to make that, you know, I walk away from clients, you know, statement.
• 15:39
  Right, right. But you're maybe your radar goes up. Yeah.
• 15:44
  Yeah, you find out very early on, you get a really good sense, again, that defensiveness, or that, you know, how involved are they really like, after the contract, you know, while you're doing the contract, are they involved in that? Or they just after the initial conversation, do they throw it off to somebody to deal with? So there's really usually some really early tells to say, listen, this is just not going to be worth my time and aggravation.
• 16:05
  Yeah. Do they come to you? What happens for me is a lot of times people will onboard after an issue, you know, they had a hack or something happened. Do you kind of does that happen for you also, like, they're coming to look to fix their culture or change their culture, because they had a, an experience like something kind of like cause, you know, a wake up call? Or is it just general growth, they have a growth mindset, maybe?
• 16:30
  Those are the idea, right?
• 16:31
  Yeah, of course.
• 16:33
  It's like, hey, we've got a pretty decent culture. And we're about to scale. Can you come help us? I'm like, yeah, let's go. Right. What it usually looks like is, hey, we're having an employee retention issue, or, you know, we're having customers, you know, customer success or customer service issues, right? Because, again, that's usually on, that's usually on the, that's usually on the employee experience side.
• 16:56
  Misalignment amongst the sales team, which I see a lot, like, you know, where sales, customer success and marketing are not aligned. In fact, they're often competing silos. So those are all kind of symptomatic of larger, symptomatic larger cultural issues that are going on that are usually like, we need some help here. And look, you know, what consultant doesn't want a long time engagement, right? But I let them know up front, like, this is not going to be a, you know, when somebody knocks on the door and says, you know, to you, like, oh, we just need an app or, oh, we just need an app.
• 17:26
  Oh, we just need some training. I'm like, okay, but you know, me taking your leadership, leadership on a retreat is not going to fix your overall culture, right? And so if you really want to solve for it, let's find out what's really happening. And then let me know how I can teach you to fix it.
• 17:42
  Yeah, I like that. All right, we're gonna pivot a little bit just to like how you use technology in your business. Share with us, you know, what tools do you use? What's working for you? What's not working? What tools do you use in your business?
• 17:56
  So I did what I think a lot of folks do, because I talked to a lot of, you know, fractional workers consultants, I went and bought a bunch of tools. And then like, you know, cleaned up my tech stack, like, oh, that's cool. Let me buy that. And let me buy this. The next thing I know, I have all these subscriptions. So, you know, I use, you know, I use the Google Suite, right? That works, that works for me. So all the tools that come with it, I also use Microsoft on social media platforms for getting my word out and thought leadership.
• 18:23
  But then for inside the companies, it really depends on the scale of the company. You know, I know, I mentioned survey, you know, everything from a survey monkey to a Google form, if you know, so it really, I can implement any kind of tools, you know, CultureAmp is another example that I gave before. So it really depends on like, what I try really not to do is to say, this is my process, and I'm going to sell it to you. Like, let me hear what you need. Let me hear what your business requirements are.
• 18:51
  And, you know, maybe I just come in to be a force multiplier, right, where your team does most of the heavy lifting. And that usually looks a little bit better, and a little bit more economic for a company to implement. But, you know, I've used everything from, you know, again, the Google Suite to SharePoint drives to, you know, you name it, I've used it. Because I am a single shingle, I kind of do CRM light, so I don't really, you know, leverage any big CRMs, been involved in a lot of CRM implementations, for sure.
• 19:21
  You know, my, my tech stack is my tech stack is pretty simple. So if you know, if I'm going to which, you know, I'm working on somebody to launch a podcast. Now I'm researching those kind of tools, right. So I pull in, I, you know, I practice what I preach was, okay, what are my business requirements? And who am I trying to reach? And what's the best tool to do that? Right?
• 19:38
  Yes, it's so critical. Never like, I see so many times people come in with the solution first. And I'm like, why do you need that? You know, like, what are you actually what are the requirements? Who's going to use it? How are you going to use it? We don't know if that's the right solution. But I think that's such a default, where people want that shiny new tool, or whatever, and just think that'll work for them. And it may not
• 20:01
  Yes, shiny new tool, or they're bringing what they're comfortable with, right? Yes. Yeah, I see that in HR a lot where, you know, HR leaders are bringing the last HR IS that they use, right, because they were comfortable that not because it's a perfect fit for that organization, just that, you know, they know how the payroll works, they know how the benefits work, and it's less for and I get the less friction conversation. But again, what kind of what, you know, the theme of what you and I have been talking about in a few of these, the friction that you're going to deal with later, because you implemented something that's not right for that organization, is
• 20:30
  simply just not going to be not going to be worth it. And, you know, and then technology in and of itself is not the sole answer, right? If you know, if engagement's a problem, putting up a slack channel in and of itself is not going to fix your engagement channel.
• 20:43
  No, no, not at all. Yeah. So true. Share with me how you use AI. You mentioned how chat GPT was, you consider that tool a thought partner, which I thought was a great term. How do you use it day to day?
• 20:58
  You know, it went from essentially using it as Google, because I didn't know any better to now doing some serious prompting. So it is my, you know, as a single shingle, it is my, you know, chief marketing officer, it is my chief ideation officer, I've actually gotten it, you know, I've actually now understand and I've got it trained to the point where it pretty much knows my voice. So I'll have it write some content for me, or at least ideate write some content. And then it's usually in a good enough spot.
• 21:27
  Where I just have to go in and do some editing. Right. And I had this conversation with somebody literally yesterday where they were like, well, I don't want AI writing my stuff. No. I'm like, yeah, I don't want that either. Right. It's like, you have to teach it your, your voice, right? Yes. Yeah. And you have to train it. And so as a, as a consultant, it's just a huge force multiplier. It really is. And, you know, what I've done is I've taken all that year, all those years of corporate coaching.
• 21:56
  All those years of corporate content that I have, right, that I'm allowed to use and share, and I've uploaded it, right. And now I can repurpose it new and fresh ways. And again, it's my content, right? Yeah. And I'm, you know, I'm designing it. I mean, I, I am a big believer in, you know, I'm a, you know, a board member of the World Ethics Organization. Right. So I am a big believer in AI ethics. So, you know, if you wrote, if you wrote something that's like heavily AI assisted, say so. Right. And I've, to a lot of people's credit, I see in bottoms of articles or at the top of articles, actually,
• 22:26
  declaring that, right. But really it is, it's just so powerful. You know, I just can't imagine how you couldn't be using it day in and day out, whether you're looking for clients, because what will happen is, you know, sometimes as expansive thinking as we try to be, sometimes, you know, we'll do ourselves a little bit injustice. So even like something like client acquisition, right? Like who's my ideal client, you might be a little bit narrowly focused. If you start using something like AI for thought
• 22:56
  leadership and saying, listen, this is who I do. This is what I do and who I do it for. Who should I be targeting? Sometimes it can really open up your, and broaden your horizons. Wow. I didn't even really think about that. And quite honestly, I, you know, I know some talent I have, I know in respect to some really talented marketers and business strategists out there, but it can really be a really good partner for you. If you learn how to do prompting and you use it, you know, and you use it in that way.
• 23:21
  Yes. And in a safe way. That's something that I see with my clients is helping them develop, you know, the policies around AI, what data they can use, what platforms, you know, to be using. Because I have seen some, you know, quasi horror stories where, you know, people are uploading bank statements for reconciliation. And it's, you know, that's not great. So I think there is that balance of how an organization can use it and who's using it, how they're using it.
• 23:51
  Because it does, it does need to be monitored and, you know, guardrails put up.
• 23:56
  For sure.
• 23:57
  Earlier, or when we spoke earlier, you had some pretty interesting, we'll call them tech horror stories. You know, what do you see, you know, when you see something kind of gone wrong? Or, you know, it could be, you know, is there a lesson for small businesses about maybe being compliant or not compliant?
• 24:17
  You know, what do you see when you kind of step in sometimes and you uncover, like something that's gone wild? Was it generally because there wasn't somebody watching it? Or, you know, how do we kind of like, look at those root causes? Like, maybe there's some licensing issues?
• 24:34
  Well, yeah, I know. And yeah, I know, we spoke about that. We definitely spoke about the licensing issue when really, you know, one of my favorite phrases is fall in love with the problem, not the solution, right? So what are you trying to solve for? And the problem could be, you know, we need a CRM system, right? It could, you know, that could be it could be anything, right? So and understand really what your needs are, and then really understand what your budget is, right? I mean, you know, something like, I mean, Salesforce is a tremendous tool, it has a huge ecosystem behind it.
• 25:02
  But you know, for small businesses, it could be and now they've got other solutions, but for small businesses, it could be a lot to implement, right? And so it's understanding, like, really what your budget is, why are you investing in what you're investing in and using the tool? I mean, more often than not, if you implement something, and no one's using it, you didn't do your due diligence, right? You didn't do your work, you didn't involve your people in it. So again, what are you trying to solve for is like number one. And more often than not, now, like, you know, we're talking about, you know,
• 25:32
  I'm gonna old enough to remember that more often than not, you had to have an application engineering team build something for you, because the software didn't exist. Exactly. More often than not, you know, if you know what your key things are that you want to do, and I say that, because not every software might do everything you needed to do. But you know, what are those key things getting those, you know, getting those understandings? And then yeah, making sure that you understand the licensing, and, and also the compliance, because, you know, if you want to roll something out, and you're really falling in love with a piece of software,
• 26:02
  and, you know, you've got 100 people in your company, but you know, you can only afford 20 licenses. That's not your platform, right? Because you can really get you can wind up getting yourself in trouble. So and then yeah, and then understand your compliance picture to what industry and what guardrails, you know, do you have, you know, not everyone, you know, smaller companies can't have a cybersecurity team, right? So what guardrails are the partners that you're getting involved in? What guardrails are they doing with your security, right?
• 26:31
  We do that a lot. We help our clients like us do a vendor, vendor assessment, like how to look at them, how to evaluate, and how to track their vendors, you know, so they have, you know, a record of who their vendors are, how they vetted them, to make sure they're good to go.
• 26:49
  And I got to say, I know you that that is a tremendous service, right? Because not everyone can have a cybersecurity team. And quite honestly, if you try to do it yourself, you know, it can be very complicated if you're not a subject matter expert, right? So yeah, that that's an incredible, you know, it's incredible capability to, you know, make sure that you're bringing in the right partners.
• 27:08
  Exactly. Because I think I see a lot of times with small businesses, they kind of think they, they're too small, they don't need it, you know, or they can do it themselves. And it's just, it's just really need to find a partner, because it's just too comprehensive now, to try and do it yourself or figure it out and run your business. You know, I see that a lot in the Bay Area, where business owners, you know, they like to dabble in tech, they want to participate in that conversation.
• 27:37
  You know, that, you know, Google's next door, right? So they want to, you know, even though they're selling insurance, they, you know, an expert, and I did not anticipate that would be such a challenge in a way, coming from corporate, you know, where you just know, okay, you have your IT, this is what you do. I didn't realize that the DIY business owners, how that was going to be such a competition. I mean, eventually, they hear my messaging, and they understand partnering the benefit of it. But
• 28:08
  that was surprising to me.
• 28:09
  And listen, you know, it's, you might not like, okay, I'm going to try to do this myself, right? Because, you know, you know, do it yourself kind of project. But, you know, if you end up if you end up not getting the adoption that you want, or you know, your employees aren't leveraging the tool to its full potential or a myriad of things, your investment is really wasted, right? And that, you know, and listen, employee experience, you know, by the way, you know, from my lens is the tools that your employees use right now, I don't certainly dictate
• 28:37
  that I would partner with the businesses and the IT departments to figure that out. But like those interfaces, and that that friction that they have with applications day in and day out, like, that's all part of your employee experience, right?
• 28:50
  Oh, this is important, I think, yeah, they have some, you know, legacy software that doesn't work, or takes 20 minutes to load, you know, that really is challenging, and they may need to invest and move to the cloud or something. Yeah, we kind of start there with our clients, we look at like, okay, what tools are you using? What AI is inside of those tools, instead of getting another, you know, a genetic adding building agents, it's like, what, what are you
• 29:20
  currently using, because every application right now is pushing out some sort of AI solution inside of it. So maybe there's already something there that can help you automate these transactions, you know, or do something. So we kind of start there before we try and put another layer on top. I mean, sometimes you need to, but you know, that has seemed to keep people occupied, just playing inside of their own applications to see what's what's there.
• 29:48
  If a business owner is listening today, and wants to build that stronger culture and smarter relationship with technology, where would you suggest they start? Or what's like a first step they could take?
• 29:59
  Reach out to Kaleo EX.
• 30:00
  Okay, there you go. I love it. Yes.
• 30:02
  No, I'm just kidding. Um, I think it's really have a conversation with your employees, right? Do I, you know, not that, you know, just like you, I think, as you know, in the technology space, you don't expect everyone to have the technology answers, right? I mean, that's your expertise.
• 30:16
  But like, have some sort of a semblance of like, in your case, what are your business requirements? What are you ultimately hoping to get? Do you understand who, who the customers are, the people that are going to be using these systems, like, having that basic information would be super helpful.
• 30:30
  So have that conversation with your, you know, with your team, however big it is, right? Like, you know, what, you know, what are some of the frustrations? What are some of the obstacles? I'm telling you, like, your individual contributors that want the folks that are on the ground, they know what's going on, right?
• 30:44
  Now, whether they're free to speak up about it is a whole other thing. But it really takes a willingness to, you know, say, first of all, as a leader of an organization or an owner of a company, how am I showing up every day, right? Because that has an effect on my team, right? And ultimately, I think it has an effect on what you bring home at night, too, right? Because you're coming in and you're managing friction all day. And then you're, you know, you're coming home and you're bringing that energy home.
• 31:11
  So I really think it's, you know, you're taking stock of, hey, you know what, I think we have a problem or a challenge, you know, challenge or an opportunity here, right? And then, you know, can we solve for this internally, right? And, you know, can we really solve for it internally? And if not, then yeah, then reach out to a you or me and, you know, have a conversation.
• 31:32
  I like that. I like that first having, you know, an internal conversation and just realizing that bringing before you bring in, if you have to bring in someone, because sometimes I've seen where all of a sudden, there's someone there to help. And the people on the ground are like, what, you know, like, they didn't have a chance. So I like that idea of having some internal conversations first and seeing, you know, laying that out, because that will definitely get buy in. And, you know, it's a good idea.
• 32:00
  Yeah, and it's a, and you think about it, it's just another, you know, change element, change management element to involving your people early to say, listen, I'm recognizing that there's a challenge here. You know, I'm thinking about maybe bringing some help in. Or even before that, you don't even need to say that, you know, I'm seeing some challenges here, you know, let's, let's talk, you know, do you feel comfortable talking to me about it, and you'll get it, you'll get a sense of the scope of man, I really need help, right? My people aren't willing to open up, I do need somebody to come in here and, you know, and support me.
• 32:30
  Yeah, no, very interesting. Okay. All right, Anthony. So at the end of our podcast, we do a quick little lightning round where I ask you a couple of quick little questions. Do you use an Apple or a PC?
• 32:40
  Both.
• 32:41
  Both. Okay. And then a phone or a tablet? What's your preference?
• 32:45
  Phone.
• 32:45
  Okay. And do you think AI is overhyped or underutilized?
• 32:51
  I think, oh, man, I'm gonna say underutilized. I was gonna ask, I'm not, you're doing, I'm gonna give you other answers that you're not asking for. So underutilized.
• 32:59
  Yeah, okay. And what is one tech tool that you can't live without?
• 33:02
  One tech tool that I can't live without? Um, I would, you know, and I don't want to say this, but I guess my phone, because I can do so much on it now. Like, if I didn't have my, like, if I lost my laptop, you know, or either Windows or PC, I could still do a lot from my phone. I've got a lot of mobile version apps on it. So I would say my phone is kind of like, and it allows me to not be at my chain to my desk, too.
• 33:28
  Exactly. Yeah, fair. And what is the biggest misconception about workplace culture?
• 33:33
  The biggest misconception about workplace culture is that once you install it, you're done, right? You have to be the constant gardener, right? You've got to continually work on your culture, continually cultivate it. If not for anything else, you know, employees come and go, generations come and go, right? And your culture is going to change as you bring new, new people in, or maybe your customers are changing, right?
• 33:58
  So that doesn't mean you have to, you know, constantly engage in consulting for it, right? Once you have that healthy culture, and you're getting that kind of constant feedback, and you created those dialogues with your employees, your culture is going to constantly evolve, evolve. But it's like, it's not this thing where like, okay, we've installed your culture. See you later, right? It, you know, it's just like software, it's going to require upgrades and reboots.
• 34:20
  Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 34:24
  Yeah, keep that conversation going. What's the best leadership advice you've ever received?
• 34:30
  The best leadership advice I ever received is basically showing up every day, being present, right? And so it's if you're not in, again, that's the best advice. It's a bit complicated on how to achieve that. It requires a lot of inner work, quite frankly. But it's like making sure that you show up your authentic self every day and not coming to the office wearing a mask.
• 34:53
  Anthony, thank you so much for joining me. I love how you bring a human culture first lens to technology and leadership. It's such a powerful reminder that tools don't fix businesses, people, clarity and purpose do. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning into the Cyber Savvy Woman where we explore practical ways we can protect ourselves, our businesses and our future increasingly digital world. To connect with Anthony Kaleo and learn more about Kaleo EX, check out the links in the show notes.
• 35:22
  And if you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate and share the show and join us next time for more real conversations about technology, leadership and living a more cyber savvy life. Thank you, Anthony.
• 35:34
  Thank you so much.
• 35:52
  We'll be back with more stories, strategies and real world solutions that are making a difference for everyone. In the meantime, be sure to subscribe, rate, write a review and share it with someone you think would benefit from it too. Hey, thanks for listening and see you on the next episode.