Latest / Adult Child of Dysfunction / E 377: Silence Was My First Language: Breaking the Cycle of Trauma & Addiction with Rich Dunning

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E 377: Silence Was My First Language: Breaking the Cycle of Trauma & Addiction with Rich Dunning · Adult Child of Dysfunction

• 0:00
  hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.
• 0:04
  Today we have with us Rich Dunning.
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  He is the author of Silence Was My First Language: A Memoir of Childhood Trauma, Addiction, Survival, and Recovery.
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  Nine years sober, he is also the founder of the First Language Foundation, turning his lived experience into a mission to protect vulnerable children and prove that our beginnings do not determine our endings.
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  I love that.
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  How you doing, Rich?
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  I'm great.
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  Thank you for having me, Tammy.
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  I appreciate you.
• 0:31
  Oh, you are very welcome.
• 0:33
  So just the b- name of your book caught my attention immediately.
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  Silence Was My First Language.
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  And I think you wrote even somewhere, and I thought it, it would hit me so hard, you wrote somewhere 40 year- or no, it was your trailer for your book.
• 0:47
  Oh, yes.
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  Where it was like, "40 years later, I spoke," or something like that.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  It's funny.
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  The, not funny, but the name, it came to me after...
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  this book took 15 years to write, Silence Was My First Language, and what it w- it start- the journey started as I was trying to put all my pain on paper because at that time I was seeing one
• 1:11
  of many therapists, and she suggested the idea, "Why don't you put your thoughts down?"
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  And the one word that continued to come up as I'm writing was silence.
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  Because my childhood, if you weren't silent odds are that you were going to experience a lot of trauma.
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  So that, that word really stuck with me and it truly became my first language.
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  Silence was the art of survival.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  So true.
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  And I w- actually just did an episode, one of my little Tammy's Takes episodes that I do, just yesterday or the day before, where I was talking about that.
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  Where everybody's like, you have to silence your voice," and I literally said, "No, when you grow up like that, you don't have to be shown how to silence your voice.
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  Your nervous system does it for you."
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  100%.
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  It was it's something I didn't have to learn.
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  Yeah.
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  It was something that was automatic.
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  Your sympathetic nervous system takes over and you go into survival mo- mode.
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  You brought up something, it took me 40-plus years to learn how to speak.
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  That is actually true.
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  Some people say, "No, you..."
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  Not in the literal sense that I stayed silent for 40 years.
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  All that pain, all the survival, that child continued to live in that adult, creating his own dysfunction.
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  While, to others, I- it looks like you have this great life.
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  You're married with kids, you have a beautiful home.
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  But that was all a house of cards, because inside I lived in terror, in paranoia.
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  I didn't trust anyone, not even my own wife, who is my biggest supporter.
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  And, that protection mode It just stayed with me because I never treated that trauma.
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  And the way I treated my trauma was through alcohol, and I began drinking at the age of seven.
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  Seven?
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  Yes.
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  And that was introduced to me by my mom.
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  She just fed me alcohol at parties.
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  They thought it was cute.
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  So and then the alcohol took over.
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  It all started with a stepfather coming into our household at the age of five.
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  I have vivid memories from the age of three seeing my biological dad leaving our home and how painful that was.
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  And then this man coming into our lives a year later at four, and the violence started probably a y- within that year.
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  I can think of, and it's in the book, the earliest violence and trauma that I experienced was, I'm American.
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  I was born in the US.
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  I didn't speak a word of English.
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  My mom was first generation Dominican.
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  She came, she ca- she didn't speak English at all.
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  And so in our home, all we spoke was Spanish.
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  I didn't speak English.
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  And nor would we weren't even exposed to the outdoors.
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  It was, we had this, we lived in poverty.
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  And I remember living in this basement in the Bronx in New York, which is a really tough place.
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  And when he came into our lives and it was time to go to school for the first time to kindergarten, I wouldn't go.
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  I was afraid because not, I wasn't exposed to other children.
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  I, I didn't speak the language, et cetera.
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  So that was the first time he laid his hands on...
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  He hit me so hard that I peed my pajamas, and then dragged me to school in wet pajamas, which was about a block and a half away.
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  And that's how I went to school the first day of- first day- of kindergarten.
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  So you were what?- First day of kinder- five years old?
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  I was five years old.
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  Yeah.
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  Ugh.
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  And no one asked questions, of course, during that time.
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  This is the '70s and '80s.
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  It's interesting to me how all the violence me and my s- biological sister experienced- That throughout that, maybe 12, 13 year span of childhood from the age of five, that no one ever questioned the bruises.
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  No one ever...
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  it's just amazing how you see this elephant in the room and everyone ignores it.
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  Yeah.
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  And I'd like to think that things are getting a little better.
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  Like now they have laws.
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  If you see bruises on a child, you have to say something, back then it was like turn your head and I'm sure, I don't know what...
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  You said your, so your f- your mom was remarrying.
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  She remarried, yes.
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  Okay.
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  She remarried and the violence started about a year or so later.
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  He was very brutal to her.
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  Very brutal to us, me and my sister.
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  My mom had two other children with him that, obviously my half siblings, and it's interesting, he wasn't violent with them at all.
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  Interesting.
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  They experienced the psychological trauma.
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  Of course.
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  Of course.
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  Because what, of what they saw.
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  Almost immediately I took on a provider role at a very e- early age because, like I said, we were very poor.
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  All the money that we had would go towards drugs and alcohol.
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  We were evicted so many times, I can't even count.
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  So I was g- I was gonna ask you, so it was both of your mom and your stepdad that were into the drugs and alcohol and- She was not in- I don't, I can't confirm, and I don't wanna
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  speculate whether or not she did any hard drugs.
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  But she certainly liked her drink, that's for sure.
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  He- yeah, if you were drinking with her- Yeah when you were seven.
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  Yeah.
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  She, yeah.
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  She she he, his drug of choice was cocaine.
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  Okay.
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  And he actually, we, our nickname by the time I was 12, 13, you remember the movie Scarface?
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  Yeah.
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  With Al Pacino?
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  He took on that persona, and as a result my sister and I would call him Scarface.
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  Oh, wow.
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  He b- obviously behind his back.
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  But that became his name because he thought he was l- he was living that lifestyle.
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  And he was, he's certainly very violent.
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  If I could put a face to him and his demeanor, that was him.
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  Okay.
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  If you think of h- the person, and Al Pacino's role in Scarface.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  It's unfortunate, but yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  So when did you get out?
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  Did you get out right when you turned 18?
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  Did you move out before that?
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  I mean- Yeah.
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  That's a great question.
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  During one of the most violent moments, On my mom I was about 16.
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  This would be the first time he would actually wind up doing some time incarcerated.
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  It was, he did about, I think maybe 10 months or so.
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  The violence was so tough that I actually came home to it, and the police were already there.
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  And it was just, my, my mom took such a beating.
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  And it all stemmed from he was, the psychosis of drugs, right?
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  He thought that my cousin, her nephew, was sleeping with my mom.
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  So he he stabbed my, he repeatedly stabbed my cousin, and he beat my mom so badly.
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  He did 10 months for th- all of this, by the way.
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  I became so enraged.
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  That was the first time I physically hit him in front of police.
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  I took a bat and I hit him so hard across the knees until the police, smothered me and said, "It's okay."
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  That in turn, after she spent some time in the hospital, we lost yet another place to live.
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  My mom and my siblings wound up going to a shelter, a home, no, a domestic violence shelter.
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  Domestic viol- yes.
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  Yeah, survivor shelter.
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  And they wouldn't take me because I was 16.
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  I, I reassured her that I would be okay.
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  I lived at an abandoned train station for the next nine months or so.
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  All the while keeping my clothes at school.
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  I was an athlete and a great student.
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  I...
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  it's amazing how things work out, 'cause there was always this facade that we had, right?
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  So all the while keeping my clothes at school, I would shower at our gym in our, which was fine because I was, you know- A student playing baseball for them.
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  But at night, I would get drunk, and that's the only way I knew how to deal with being homeless.
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  And I would crawl through this window into this abandoned train station full of strangers, the most scariest time of my life, crawl up into a corner.
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  I would bring ironically, I would bring my bat just for protection, and I would sleep with one eye open.
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  And before sunrise, I would sneak out and head over to school and take care of myself.
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  And that's how I lived for quite some time.
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  It's funny when you say sleep with one eye open.
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  That reminds me, 'cause I always say I use the...
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  when people are talking about advocating for children, I use that kind of as an example because- Sure I had 51, 52, what- however many teachers I had all throughout my school.
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  And it was the same thing with me.
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  My dad was a high-end stockbroker.
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  My mom was a, she was a child psychiatrist.
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  Wow.
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  So on the outside, everything looked really cool.
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  But I remember thinking, I remember saying to, I don't remember even who I said it to one time, but I was like, "If just one of those 51 teachers had ever said, 'Hey, Tammy, why do you sleep all
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  day long on the desk.
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  I was a good student, I got good grades- Yeah but I slept in school.
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  And I was like, if just one had said that, I might have had the courage at that point to say, "Because it's the only place I sleep with both eyes closed."
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  Yeah.
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  It's amazing.
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  And I know there's so many people out there that can resonate with that.
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  You sleep, I'm 58 years old now, but- sometimes you still sleep with hearing everything.
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  Yeah.
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  Yes.
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  It's when you're on an airplane and you're sleeping, and you're s- asleep, but you can hear all the conversations.
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  You can hear them give the lady next to you a cookie.
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  That's how you sleep when...
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  And that's not good for your body.
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  It's your PTSD talking to you.
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  I- it's, it really w- stays with...
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  coming out of it the only way I got out of my situation was I got a partial scholarship for baseball of all things.
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  And, just leaving that environment and going into...
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  I was the first one to graduate high school, first one to go to college.
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  But going into an environment like that and it's oh my gosh, it's a whole other world.
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  But again, I was so protective of myself, because I always thought that everyone was out to hurt me, the paranoia.
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  So I'm gonna hurt first.
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  And again, it's just the way you grew up, just protecting yourself.
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  Just the drinking get- got worse.
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  I met my most beautiful wife, who by the way, had the complete opposite experience.
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  Grew up in all, bed of roses.
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  My in-laws are the most incredible folks, the most loving home you could possibly imagi- imagine.
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  She marries me, and of course she knows part of me, but she doesn't know all of me.
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  But then she begins to discover who I really am, and it was very difficult for her.
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  It was, for someone who never had to deal with anything like that, now she's got this guy who's just full of drama, paranoia, anxiety.
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  I hid the drinking from her a lot until I couldn't until I couldn't anymore.
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  And the drinking just got worse.
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  I wasn't violent or anything.
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  I was one of I was obnoxious- probably, over the top happy and gregarious.
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  But that, th- those feelings of insecurity for your spouse still was the same, and then you bring kids into this environment, and it's interesting to me I, my kids, God love them.
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  Even though I wasn't those things, my kids started to behave the way I behaved.
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  As soon as Dad got home, everyone scatters.
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  And I'm like what the heck is going on?
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  I'm a fun guy."
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  And then, the drinking got worse The blackout started.
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  And boy, was I a blackout drinker.
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  I, I'm ashamed to say that I was one of those notorious blackout drunk drivers.
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  And thank God I never got a DUI.
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  Thank God I never hurt anyone else or myself, but I was one of those guys, if I was working in one part of the state, I would wake up on the complete other side of the state or in
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  a different state.
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  And once I woke up in a different country.
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  Where did you go?
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  Yeah.
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  I woke up in the country of Panama.
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  Wow.
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  And you thi- you would think that any sane person would try to get back immediately.
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  No, I doubled down and stayed for the next five days blacked out drunk.
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  While you had kids and everything else?
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  While I had kids and everything else.
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  So and it's funny that you said that the w- the way you worded it was all of a sudden your kids started acting like you acted.
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  And it's, that's...
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  I remember telling my kids one time, I said, "Even if Mom had never picked up a drink, even if I had never drank a thing in my life- Sure I by default would have acted like an alcoholic," because
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  I had their mannerisms, I had their nervous system regulation, I had everything that she had, and my body thrived that same way.
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  So it's kinda like it's, they call it para-alcoholism.
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  It's so- Yes it's like I tell my kids, "You got the DNA, girls.
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  Girls and boys," I tell my kids the same thing.
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  And hopefully we make better choices.
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  But talk about how you...
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  what was, did you have an aha moment where you were all of a sudden- Yeah "Okay, this sucks.
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  Enough is enough"?
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  Yeah.
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  You would think that waking up in a different country would be my rock bottom.
• 14:42
  No, I continued to drink for another seven years after that.
• 14:45
  Yeah, I would think waking up in a different country would definitely be someone's rock bottom.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  So my rock bottom was a, a very unfortunate situation.
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  Things were really rough in my household.
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  My wife was ready to be done.
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  I, she's my lioness.
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  We've been married 32 years now.
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  Congrats.
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  And our relationship is just incredible today, but I don't think I'd be here if it weren't for her and her patience and her love.
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  But my my rock bottom happened in 2017, July se- July 6, because July 7th I became sober, of 2017.
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  And- I had convinced them a couple of days bef- a few weeks before that, "Hey, let's just go away with the fam and, somewhere local along the beach in South Carolina."
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  And just, I was drinking on and off.
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  I was trying, but I wasn't very successful.
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  I had done many rehabs.
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  See, the n- the cool rehabs, all of that stuff, it was all...
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  the narcissism in me was just beyond control.
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  So we go away.
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  My in-laws actually lived in that town and my, my father-in-law asked to play golf, and I did.
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  We played.
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  We had a great day.
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  I had been sober for two days.
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  My mom and the kids were at by poolside.
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  We were done around, around lunchtime.
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  I was feeling good.
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  He gave me a good hug, and he went off and went home, and I saw the country club, and the lights went on.
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  I was like just one drink.
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  One drink."
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  One drink turned to four hours, turned into four hours, and I show up about, late afternoon, and y- my phone was blowing up all afternoon, "Where are you?"
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  kind of thing.
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  I get there.
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  I am just a mess.
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  I see them poolside.
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  I can see my wife is not very happy right off the bat.
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  But my youngest runs towards me.
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  He's 10 at the time, and he's "Let's play ping pong," and I'm just a mess.
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  I was like, "Okay."
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  So now we're playing ping pong.
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  I'm falling, and I'm just all over the...
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  People are now noticing that this person is inebriated.
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  And my wife's like, "Okay," grabs me, puts me in a room.
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  I'm obnoxious.
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  "You can't do this to me," whatever.
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  They go off to dinner.
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  I decide I'm gonna leave the room, go back downstairs, and continue drinking, and to the point that security had to bring me back to my room and lock me in my room.
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  I pass out.
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  They get home.
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  I pass out.
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  I wake up.
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  My he- my brain is coming out of my head that morning, that next morning.
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  I look around.
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  I see them sleeping peacefully, and I just said, "I can't do this anymore."
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  I I...
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  We were on the fifth floor, our suite.
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  And it's like, "I'm not good enough for these people.
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  They don't deserve this."
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  So I walk out on the ledge.
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  I climb over the ledge, and I'm gonna take my life.
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  About to jump And my youngest wakes up and he comes outside and he's like, "Dad, what are you doing?"
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  And that just broke me that he caught me like that.
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  I climb back over, I walk inside, everyone else starts to awaken, and I just fell on my knees and I said, "I need help."
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  And I was just crying and that was day one.
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  There you go.
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  That was day one.
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  I did some real hard work in therapy and did one of those work stay rehabs.
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  This was not one of the glamorous ones like I was used to doing.
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  This was hard work.
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  And then AA came into my life and just completely changed my life.
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  There were people like me that understood me, and it didn't define you by how much you make, what color you are, where you come from.
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  None of that mattered.
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  Nope, addiction- We all shared- Yep the same thing.
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  Addiction does not discriminate.
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  Nope, nope.
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  A- I was going to AA three days three times a day.
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  I was d- I was just amazing at how much it transformed me, and they got me.
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  I loved it, and that, that was how things turned around for me.
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  Did, was I trusted for the probably the first couple years after drinking?
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  No.
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  But it took a lot of work.
• 19:08
  And it's funny how selfish the disease is too, Tammy, because here you are drinking all of this time.
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  It's all about me and my drama, and they're, the family and friends are on the sidelines and they're just like, "We don't know what to do with this guy."
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  And they're hurting for me because I'm not taking care of myself.
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  Now I get sober and it has to be about me and my sobriety first because if I'm not capable of taking care of myself, I can't take care of you.
• 19:37
  So it's always the family that kind of suffers initially on the sidelines.
• 19:41
  And I, m- to those families that are watching this show or listening to this show, I feel your pain, and it's not fair because, you're the support, supporting units, and my heart goes out to you guys because it
• 19:55
  is tough.
• 19:56
  But I promise that if that person that wherever th- wherever they are in their stage and they do get sober, the ultimate outcome is that, it will work for you.
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  It will w- with all that dedication that you give.
• 20:10
  But only that person can get sober- I was gonna say yes or can decide to get sober.
• 20:15
  And- It's not your job to get them sober.
• 20:17
  No.
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  And it's not your job to care for them in that manner.
• 20:20
  They have to get sober first.
• 20:22
  Absolutely.
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  And it has to be their idea, their rock bottom.
• 20:25
  Absolutely.
• 20:25
  And for the people out there listening, you made a good point that it's all about you, y- it's all about the addict.
• 20:30
  It's all about the, so I encourage anybody that's out there listening, if you're going through that- You can't be a support to that person- Yeah unless you are well.
• 20:41
  There's ACA groups, there's Al-Anon groups.
• 20:43
  There are just as many groups for people that are on- Absolutely in the families, and I highly encourage people to explore that.
• 20:52
  I was 13- I agree I re- I think I was, I think I was 12 or 13, and they had Alateen back there, at that age.
• 20:59
  And I remember my dad saying to me when I was 13, he said, "Your mom and I are doing irreparable damage to you, and I don't know what, how to help you."
• 21:08
  And he had a friend drive me to this meeting, and it was not the right meeting for the right day.
• 21:14
  It just didn't work.
• 21:15
  It like...
• 21:15
  But I regret that to this day that I didn't stick with that when I was 13 years old.
• 21:20
  Yeah.
• 21:20
  Be- but ACA is my godsend, it just is.
• 21:20
  Amen.
• 21:20
  So what did you...
• 21:21
  So talk about, so you went through a rehab.
• 21:23
  You, AA sounds like your found, that sounds like the- Yes the magic bullet.
• 21:27
  That was the- Yeah.
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  And everyone's journey's gonna be different, right?
• 21:30
  For me, it was AA.
• 21:32
  AA, therapy I had, for someone who was an athlete, through college, I had ballooned to 260 pounds.
• 21:41
  I just did not care about myself at all.
• 21:44
  It was, I was a train wreck.
• 21:45
  I was sedentary.
• 21:47
  I was just drinking.
• 21:48
  I was drinking a bottle, excuse me, a bottle of bourbon a day.
• 21:52
  All the while still going to work and it's just I don't understand how I, I even survived.
• 21:59
  And just eating like crap.
• 22:02
  So the day I stopped drinking I was 260 pounds.
• 22:05
  And, the, the addict in someone, once they think they are, they're gonna be clean and sober, they wanna put all that energy into something else.
• 22:13
  And I don't recommend that, by the way.
• 22:15
  I think it should be baby steps.
• 22:17
  The first thing is obviously control your sobriety and make sure you stay sober.
• 22:22
  Use any resource that you can as, as much as you can as possible.
• 22:26
  But once there seems to be a tempo to your sobriety, then start exploring other things.
• 22:32
  I encourage certainly, social work in terms of talking to someone, a psychologist or some- That, that's certainly, that's something that it's another outlet.
• 22:42
  But i- your wellness.
• 22:43
  I c- I call it mind, body, and soul.
• 22:46
  Yeah.
• 22:46
  'Cause if those are not right, you're gonna you're gonna fail.
• 22:50
  'Cause- Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:50
  Pe- people ask me all the time, they're like what kind of coach are you?"
• 22:53
  Yeah.
• 22:53
  And I'm like, "You know what?
• 22:54
  If I had to give it a name, I would say body, mind, and spirit."
• 22:56
  Yeah, that's right.
• 22:57
  Because it, it all works together, and so many people don't understand, like, when you grew up the way you grew up- it didn't just mess with your mind.
• 23:05
  It also messed with your body.
• 23:07
  It also messed with your belief system, with your soul.
• 23:09
  It's all intertwined, and you have to you have to unravel all of it And o- the, the, again, going to therapy for me really helped me understand that my past doesn't define what I do today or who I
• 23:24
  can be today.
• 23:25
  For the...
• 23:25
  I was called, my name was Dog for 17 years.
• 23:30
  When you're called that all day long every day, you start to believe that you're an animal and that you deserve nothing.
• 23:38
  There was no self-esteem.
• 23:40
  As someone, again, who appeared confident on the outside, who was, I'm one of the tough- toughest spaces to work in the medical device field.
• 23:50
  You would think that I was, that I own the world.
• 23:53
  I was the most insecure person.
• 23:55
  I had imposter syndrome.
• 23:58
  I I felt that, I was never good enough to be in any room because I was a dog.
• 24:03
  And those things you don't unlearn overnight.
• 24:06
  No.
• 24:06
  So I think therapy is super, super important.
• 24:09
  Then, taking- eating right, starting to exercise.
• 24:13
  I'm a big yogi.
• 24:15
  All of that just brought me to this place that, that I have peace.
• 24:21
  For someone who's been anxious- Since I was seven, five, seven years old, and to not experience any anxiety even when I'm enduring stress or I'm experiencing tra- stress, I'm like, "That's amazing that it's completely gone."
• 24:39
  So now that you've worked through a, a lot of this, obviously.
• 24:43
  Yeah.
• 24:43
  It's been nine years that you haven't been drinking, and you've had to deal with a lot.
• 24:47
  What would you give as a tip?
• 24:49
  Let's say you, somebody's listening to you right now.
• 24:52
  And they're like, "Oh my God, that's me.
• 24:53
  Like I, I wanna take that step.
• 24:56
  I need to change.
• 24:57
  I need to do this."
• 24:58
  What would be one of your first steps, actually?
• 25:02
  First of all, I would tell that person that I love you.
• 25:05
  I do.
• 25:07
  I don't know you.
• 25:08
  I love you because I know your pain, and that you are someone.
• 25:13
  This will probably be the most difficult thing you ever do to step out of that hamster wheel because it is like a, a wash, rinse, repeat every day, and I understand what that feels like.
• 25:25
  I would encourage you just to take the first step and worry about the first minute, the first hour.
• 25:31
  Not worry about the next day or the n- at what tonight even looks like.
• 25:37
  Worry about right now and what you can do right now.
• 25:41
  And let that step guide you to the next step.
• 25:45
  And that step may be, "Hey, why don't I open up my phone, my gadget, and find out where the next AANA meeting may be?"
• 25:55
  And go sit in that meeting.
• 25:57
  And if you feel brave enough, share your story.
• 26:01
  Yeah.
• 26:01
  There will be, that entire room, the first thing they're gonna wanna do is help.
• 26:06
  Yeah.
• 26:07
  Because they understand you.
• 26:08
  You are not alone.
• 26:10
  I love you.
• 26:12
  Amen.
• 26:12
  And very well said.
• 26:14
  And for people, again, listening that want to take that first step know that, like he said, baby steps.
• 26:20
  It's not jump all in- Baby steps go and be the most, the loudest voice in the place.
• 26:25
  He, Rich even said for 40 years he didn't have a voice 'cause he was scared to use it.
• 26:30
  You don't have to go from no voice and not being able to talk to being the loudest voice in the room either.
• 26:35
  So baby steps.
• 26:36
  I went to ACA meetings and Al-Anon meetings.
• 26:39
  I sat on the, it, I sat for months and never spoke.
• 26:43
  Yeah.
• 26:44
  Never spoke.
• 26:45
  I just listened, and I was gaining confidence, and all it took was just being in a room knowing that I wasn't alone.
• 26:54
  My stories were, while they were unique to me, they weren't really that unique.
• 26:58
  And- 100%, yeah there is power in knowing that something that you went through that, people spend so much time comparing their traumas, and hundreds of thousands if not millions of people right here in this United States have gone
• 27:13
  through very similar stories, so they get it.
• 27:16
  Yeah.
• 27:16
  And that's the big thing.
• 27:17
  They understand.
• 27:18
  And when you go in those rooms and those meetings, there is nothing but compassion.
• 27:23
  Compassion.
• 27:24
  A- and even in that first meeting, you don't have to say much, but what's going to happen is that person that attends is gonna get a bunch of phone numbers Because a- and that support immediately to know that
• 27:36
  you have a number that you can call right away and say, "Can you talk to me?"
• 27:42
  And that sponsor or would-be sponsor is more than willing to listen and carry you to that next step.
• 27:50
  And again, reinforce the fact that you don't have to drink right now.
• 27:54
  You don't have to make a decision that you're quitting drinking.
• 27:57
  Just don't drink.
• 27:58
  Or don't do whatever drug you're doing right now.
• 28:01
  For right now, don't do it.
• 28:03
  It's that small of a baby step.
• 28:05
  I know they always say one day at a time.
• 28:07
  I remember the first time I heard one day at a time, and I was like no.
• 28:10
  Break it down a little more."
• 28:10
  One minute.
• 28:10
  One second at a time.
• 28:10
  Yeah.
• 28:10
  Then one minute at a time.
• 28:13
  Yeah.
• 28:13
  Then one hour.
• 28:15
  Like- Exactly no, not one day.
• 28:17
  Hey, if there's hope for me, oh my gosh, if I was a train wreck, there's hope for you guys that are out there that are struggling.
• 28:25
  I promise you.
• 28:26
  Because I thought, again, my, my choice, and it usually coincides with the message.
• 28:32
  You wind up in either in three places.
• 28:34
  You either die, you're so sick that, that you're in the hospital, or you're incarcerated.
• 28:41
  Those are the three dead ends.
• 28:43
  And I was going to take my life- Yeah which would've been the second time in my life that I would've done that.
• 28:49
  The other time is when I was a child because I couldn't deal with the pain, which you could read in the book, Silence Was My First Language.
• 28:57
  Yeah, talk about your book and talk about your organization.
• 28:59
  Yeah.
• 29:00
  Your foundation.
• 29:00
  Yeah, I appreciate that.
• 29:01
  Yeah, so again, the story obviously begins with, a lot of poverty childhood violence food insecurity, constant food insecurity, and certainly homelessness, and some way exploitation and sex abuse, unfortunately.
• 29:15
  The story, it's a...
• 29:17
  And then taking those emotions and those insecurities and living with those things as an adult, which fueled the adult in me, the alcoholic in me, and then ultimately becoming at peace with what happened.
• 29:30
  It's not a pretty book.
• 29:32
  It's a, but it's a real book.
• 29:34
  It's it's very cathartic, very real.
• 29:36
  It's very cinematic.
• 29:38
  It puts the read- everyone who's read it in pre-sale my advance readers who are leaving reviews, they all say the same thing.
• 29:47
  It stays with you.
• 29:49
  They may have to put it down a couple of times, but it's so real.
• 29:53
  It's not a happy ending, but it's a real true story.
• 29:57
  You will feel that you're in the book as the person going through it.
• 30:01
  You'll touch it, you'll feel it, you'll smell it, you'll hear it.
• 30:05
  It's a pretty powerful book, I think.
• 30:07
  And then this book, this wasn't the end game.
• 30:10
  My, for me, it was how do I give back to folks who are going through it, to the kids and young adults that are going through it right now?
• 30:18
  Because Tammy- It's unfortunate that here we sit in 2026 and the prevalence of abuse and violence are going on continually, just as much as they were in the '70s and the '80s.
• 30:34
  Nothing has changed.
• 30:36
  Because why?
• 30:37
  It's something that's not talked about.
• 30:39
  We can't be silent anymore.
• 30:41
  So I have a foundation called firstlanguagefoundation.org.
• 30:45
  For every book I sell in perpetuity, not just for this book, but for all of my books that come afterwards, I will donate $1 towards the foundation, which will then serve directly to the kids that are going through
• 30:58
  poverty, homelessness, et cetera, violence food insecurity and certainly exploitation.
• 31:04
  And I'm...
• 31:04
  Something I'm really proud of, I have a tremendous board.
• 31:07
  No one is paid, so that's great.
• 31:10
  So all of the money that's raised, n- not only from me, but you guys in the audience can go there and donate as well, that money goes directly to those causes, 100% of that.
• 31:23
  So I'm very proud of that.
• 31:25
  That is amazing.
• 31:26
  That's- And those links- Yeah I can put in the show notes if you're listening- Yeah so that if you wanna donate.
• 31:30
  And that's- It's firstlanguage.org.
• 31:33
  Okay.
• 31:33
  And then you can pre-order my book today.
• 31:36
  The book comes out worldwide on all platforms, including audiobook, on October 6th.
• 31:42
  Okay.
• 31:42
  So you can go anywhere to find it.
• 31:44
  And you can find my book today on pre-sale at richdunningbooks.com.
• 31:50
  And if you order my book before October 6th, you're gonna get six unpublished chapters that were so painful to me that ultimately I said, "You know what?
• 32:00
  If I'm gonna be real, these have to be shown as well, because this is what a person today is going through.
• 32:06
  And, this is me."
• 32:08
  So if you pre-ordered a book before October 6th, you will get those six unpublished chapters.
• 32:12
  I will make sure that this goes out before October 6th then- Thank you so people can get the, so people can get your, get your- I appreciate that pre-order with those chapters.
• 32:20
  Yeah.
• 32:21
  Just...
• 32:21
  Yeah, no, that's amazing.
• 32:23
  And it's...
• 32:23
  Sometimes it is hard to read those books.
• 32:25
  I wrote this, a very, very simple book called Surviving Alcoholic Parents- Yeah and my sister said she couldn't even read it.
• 32:31
  Yeah.
• 32:32
  And it was I thought it was so simple, like a reference guide for teens.
• 32:36
  I was like, "Wow," like I never really...
• 32:38
  But I was just writing, and- Yeah and trying to be as non-graphic as I could and trying to keep things just so that it wasn't- Yeah it wasn't deep in...
• 32:47
  Because it was for kids, so that was a totally different thing.
• 32:50
  But my sister's like, "Yeah, I read...
• 32:51
  I had to kept putting it down, and I'd put it down."
• 32:53
  She put it down for months, and I'm like, "Oh my goodness."
• 32:56
  Oh.
• 32:56
  But she finally- Yeah got through it.
• 32:58
  But anyway, wow, yes.
• 33:00
  And- I guess if we're listening, and if you're out there listening, the big message is the message that I talk about all the time.
• 33:09
  You are sitting here looking at Rich.
• 33:11
  He went through poverty, homelessness, living in a, what'd you say?
• 33:15
  In a r- in a- An abandoned, yeah, an abandoned train station abandoned train station.
• 33:21
  Doing all of that, and now here he is smiling- at peace.
• 33:26
  Body, mind, and spirit- Yeah all in alignment- Amen.
• 33:29
  Yeah and helping other people.
• 33:31
  So if you're out there and you're thinking, "No, this is just the way I am," or, "I can't change because of how I grew up," I'm gonna call total bullshit on that.
• 33:39
  Amen.
• 33:40
  And- Amen but like you also said, Rich, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you have to be the one.
• 33:46
  You have to want it in, inside of your heart to, to change- Yeah and to have- This- a better life exactly.
• 33:54
  Your past doesn't have to define today.
• 33:58
  You have one life to live, guys.
• 34:00
  One life to g- And it's so precious.
• 34:03
  I felt like I've wasted so much of my life going through the motions, and the s- and the life that I can't get back because I can't remember it That hurts, but what you do today can define the
• 34:17
  rest of your journey in this life.
• 34:20
  Yep.
• 34:21
  I encourage you to seek help.
• 34:23
  Amen.
• 34:23
  And I always say, it's when was the best time to stop or to change- Yeah was f- 40 years ago.
• 34:30
  Ex- But when was the second-best time?
• 34:31
  Exactly.
• 34:32
  Right now.
• 34:32
  Now.
• 34:33
  Right now.
• 34:33
  Exactly.
• 34:34
  So- Absolutely, Tammy.
• 34:36
  Thank you so much for coming on.
• 34:37
  I appreciate you.
• 34:38
  Oh, thank you for having me.
• 34:39
  I'm so honored.
• 34:41
  I really appreciate you.
• 34:42
  Absolutely.
• 34:43
  And if you had one more...
• 34:45
  You're not off the hook yet.
• 34:46
  Yes.
• 34:47
  Give them your best tip, trick, secret, or words of wisdom from Rich Dunning.
• 34:54
  Yeah.
• 34:54
  I...
• 34:55
  You know what?
• 34:56
  And I'm gonna use a little bit of a foul language here.
• 34:58
  And we...
• 34:59
  My entire family lives by this mantra.
• 35:01
  What started as a woe is me became this powerful message.
• 35:06
  In my gym in my home I have this huge banner that started out as pain, but now it's a motivational thing, and it says, "No one gives a shit, Dunning.
• 35:18
  Work harder."
• 35:20
  So at first it was, like, a negative, but now we use it...
• 35:24
  it's funny.
• 35:24
  Every time something, someone accomplishes something, we go, "No gas.
• 35:30
  Work harder.
• 35:31
  No, no one gives a shit.
• 35:32
  Work harder."
• 35:32
  And it's almost like, you know what?
• 35:34
  You accomplished something.
• 35:36
  Guys, it's never too late.
• 35:38
  It's never too late.
• 35:39
  It's true that I give...
• 35:41
  When we say no one, it's a double entendre.
• 35:43
  I do give a shit.
• 35:44
  People give a shit about you.
• 35:46
  We love you.
• 35:47
  Don't give up.
• 35:48
  Don't give up on yourself and your lives, because what you do next can touch so many people.
• 35:56
  So in terms of no one gives a shit, we do give a shit.
• 36:01
  I love you.
• 36:03
  Love that.
• 36:03
  Yeah.
• 36:04
  Thank you so much.
• 36:05
  I appreciate you.
• 36:06
  Thanks, Tammy.
• 36:07
  You're very welcome.
• 36:08
  And for everybody else out there listening, I'm not gonna repeat the no one gives a shit because he just said- we do, 100%.
• 36:16
  100%.
• 36:16
  But you have to know that you're worth it.
• 36:19
  Yeah.
• 36:19
  So I'm here to remind, to reiterate Rich's message of you are worth it.
• 36:25
  No matter what you're, you were told or shown or experienced it, whether you Whether from two to 20 or whatever it was- Yeah doesn't matter.
• 36:36
  You could be now in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, even 70.
• 36:40
  Never too late.
• 36:41
  And it is never too late to turn around and decide that you want your best life.
• 36:45
  And it's out there for the taking.
• 36:47
  No guilt, no shame, none of the past.
• 36:50
  Just moving forward in alignment.
• 36:54
  So thank you all.
• 36:56
  You all have a very blessed day, and we will see you back next week.
• 36:59
  Thank you.