Latest / Gunther Fehlinger Podcast / East Turkistan Foreign Minister Salih Hudayar on ExChina Independence, and the Fight Against Beijing

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East Turkistan Foreign Minister Salih Hudayar on ExChina Independence, and the Fight Against Beijing · Gunther Fehlinger Podcast

• 0:02
  This is going to failing a podcast.
• 0:04
  I'm so happy to have a very special guest this morning again
• 0:07
  from Washington, DC. I'm very happy to welcome you.
• 0:11
  I want to make first of all, now in this new phase of my podcast,
• 0:14
  I have now 14,000 subscribers on YouTube and I have also now
• 0:20
  120,000 soon after this podcast on X.
• 0:24
  And that's of course the platform of Elon Musk.
• 0:27
  We have some issues with America and Europe at the moment, but we
• 0:32
  should unite in one issue. This is freedom for East
• 0:35
  Turkistan. This is very important because
• 0:39
  China is a communist tyranny dictatorship and it is
• 0:43
  supporting the Russian aggression against Ukraine.
• 0:48
  And therefore it's very important to have allies and
• 0:50
  friends in the future independent countries emerging
• 0:53
  out of X Russia and X China. And now it's a very national
• 0:58
  personality this morning with me.
• 1:00
  Please, Sally, can you introduce yourself?
• 1:02
  And first of all, thank you very much for taking time to come on
• 1:05
  the Gunter filling a podcast. Hello Washington, DC and hello E
• 1:10
  Turkestan, please. Thank you, Conter, for for
• 1:14
  having me. As you already know and some of
• 1:18
  your followers might already know, my name is Sally Hudayer.
• 1:22
  I'm and we were American political advocate.
• 1:28
  I'm also the Minister of Foreign Affairs for the East Turkistan
• 1:32
  Government in exile and I lead the East Turkistan National
• 1:35
  Movement. Very good.
• 1:37
  We are very honored to be with you today, that you are with us
• 1:42
  this morning because you represent your government, your
• 1:44
  exile government. But first of all, we would like
• 1:47
  to him get acquainted to Sally yourself.
• 1:50
  Yeah. Tell me you're American now and
• 1:53
  you have a distinguished Korean America.
• 1:56
  Explain a little bit. What is your background?
• 1:59
  Yes, I was actually born in East Turkestan, in the city of Atush.
• 2:05
  I fled to the United States in June 2004.
• 2:09
  I was forced into exile in the United States, arriving in June
• 2:13
  2000 as a political refugee. I grew up in the state of
• 2:18
  Oklahoma. Initially, I wanted a my
• 2:22
  childhood dream was to be a military officer.
• 2:24
  So that was the career that I, I, I, I tried to pursue.
• 2:29
  I did reserve officer training while I was in university and I
• 2:34
  was also a member of the Oklahoma Army National Guard.
• 2:37
  However, fate had different plans and unfortunately, because
• 2:43
  of kidney polycystic kidney disease, my military career
• 2:49
  ended much, much shorter than I I would have ever hoped for.
• 2:54
  And so, and this was in 20 in the summer of 2013.
• 2:59
  Then I pursued studying International Studies and
• 3:03
  political science. And then in 2016, this is 1, the
• 3:11
  really the, the mass internment of our people began to really
• 3:16
  take, you know, shape to where it became more noticeable by the
• 3:21
  international community. And I began losing contact with
• 3:25
  my relatives by the, you know, the summer of 2017, I lost all
• 3:30
  contact with my relatives inside East Turkestan.
• 3:34
  So I would like. It's maybe explained because in
• 3:37
  the international world it's more famous Uyghurs these terms,
• 3:42
  but we're talking about the region inside today's China,
• 3:45
  future X China, which is Ching Chiang Uyghurs, that's the
• 3:50
  Republic of East Turkestan. Yes, historically, our country
• 3:55
  has been known as either Turkestan or East Turkestan.
• 3:59
  I mean, this has been the case for the past 1500 years or so,
• 4:04
  and E Turkistan since the 1730s we've been known commonly as E
• 4:11
  Turkistan. E Turkistan was initially
• 4:18
  invaded and occupied by the Manchu Qing dynasty in 1759 and
• 4:24
  in between 1759 to 1863 the Manchu Empire governed E
• 4:29
  Turkestan indirectly as a military colony and in 1864 we
• 4:35
  managed to re establish our independence during the Great.
• 4:41
  Strategic competition between the Russian Empire and the
• 4:45
  British Empire, known as the Great came in Central Asia.
• 4:49
  However, in 1877 the Manchu Qing Empire reinvaded East Turkistan,
• 4:56
  and I'd like to note that during that period between 1865 to
• 5:00
  1877, our state was known as the State of Yitschhar or the Seven
• 5:07
  Cities, or Kashkaria, but our maps from that period labeled us
• 5:13
  as East Turkistan. But your people, your people are
• 5:17
  basically the Uyghurs. International English, yeah.
• 5:20
  So I'll come into that. We were, we were in that period,
• 5:24
  we weren't referred to as Uyghurs.
• 5:26
  We were, if you look at records from that period, we were just
• 5:30
  referred to as Eastern Turkeys or Turks or Turkeys.
• 5:35
  So in 1877 the Manchu Qing Empire invaded E Turkestan once
• 5:39
  more and conquered it in in November of 1877.
• 5:46
  And then a couple years later in 1884 the Manchu Qing Empire
• 5:52
  formally tried to annex East Turkestan.
• 5:55
  And this is when they this is when they coined the term
• 5:59
  Xinjiang, meaning the new territory or the colony in the
• 6:03
  Chinese language. So in many ways, China is a
• 6:06
  typical colonial empire which has invaded all its neighbors,
• 6:10
  suppressed them and colonialized them.
• 6:13
  Yes, well, China itself was under the occupation of the
• 6:17
  Manchu Qing Empire itself as well.
• 6:20
  So in 1912 the Chinese Revolution happens and the
• 6:23
  Manchu Empire was overthrown. We also tried to reestablish our
• 6:29
  independence. However, Chinese warlords backed
• 6:35
  and then later backed by the Soviet Union, tried to suppress
• 6:38
  our independence. In 1933, we declare independence
• 6:43
  as the EE Turkestan Republic. When was that?
• 6:47
  In the interval years. Basically, after World War One,
• 6:49
  you wanted to be independent again and you declared it
• 6:52
  already. Yeah, we declared our
• 6:54
  independence. We established this because.
• 6:57
  China was in chaos. They had the so-called warlord
• 7:00
  period, and then it was an opportunity for you to come back
• 7:04
  as an independent country. Yes, yes, and we Our uprising
• 7:08
  started in 1931 and then by 1933 our different forces within our
• 7:16
  country were able to unite and declare independence as the
• 7:20
  Eastern Republic. For example, Mongolia was more
• 7:23
  lucky, they could have at the same time when Russia was in the
• 7:26
  civil war, China basically in the civil war and the Mongols
• 7:30
  could declare independence and could keep it.
• 7:33
  Yes, well, because they were supported by the Soviet Union
• 7:36
  and, and and keeping their independence and that we'll come
• 7:40
  to that in a later part. So our first Republic was short
• 7:44
  lived because due to Soviet intervention, the Soviet Union
• 7:49
  felt threatened by East Turkistan being independent.
• 7:53
  Given the fact that much of historically what was W
• 7:57
  Turkestan was under Russian occupation or Soviet occupation,
• 8:02
  the present day countries of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan,
• 8:04
  Uzbekistan and so forth. I see the.
• 8:07
  Map behind you. It's very interesting.
• 8:09
  So future Republic of East Turkestan will be having
• 8:12
  neighbors like Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan.
• 8:19
  Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, India and then to
• 8:25
  the north is the Altai Republic, Mongolia.
• 8:30
  Future independent Altai Republic that will be another
• 8:33
  state if Russia breaks up. Yes.
• 8:36
  And Mongolia to the east, including southern Mongolia and
• 8:41
  Tibet to the southeast. And then to the direct E we have
• 8:45
  a small border with China. OK.
• 8:49
  So you think a small border with China will be the result after
• 8:52
  you are independent and also Tibet will be independent?
• 8:56
  Yeah, because this is based on our historical borders before
• 9:01
  the the Chinese occupation of East Turkistan.
• 9:05
  So this is the map according to the historical borders of
• 9:08
  Eastern. How many people will be the
• 9:10
  future Republic of East Turkestan you've estimate?
• 9:13
  So right now, our popular, we're facing, you know, genocide.
• 9:19
  China is trying to forcibly sterilize our people, suppress
• 9:25
  growth rates they've awarded in in the past decade alone.
• 9:29
  Over past two decades alone, over 4 million of our babies
• 9:34
  every year. It's estimated 25,000 to 50,000
• 9:37
  of our youth are being killed simply for their organs.
• 9:42
  And this is not counting the others that are being massacred
• 9:46
  in ethnic cleansing campaigns or those that are being executed,
• 9:51
  tortured or dying from, you know, disease and other
• 9:55
  conditions within the camps. So you call it a genocide?
• 9:58
  It's a genocide what China, Communist China is doing against
• 10:02
  your people. It's, it's fits what they're
• 10:06
  doing, fits every aspect of genocide underlined in the UN
• 10:11
  Genocide Convention. The, the US government
• 10:16
  officially recognized it as genocide.
• 10:19
  Many governments and parliaments in Europe, including the
• 10:23
  European Parliament, have either recognized it as genocide or
• 10:26
  crimes against humanity. the United Nations itself called it
• 10:29
  crimes against humanity because again, China pressured them to,
• 10:36
  you know, prevent them from calling it a genocide.
• 10:39
  But in every essence, it meets the definition of genocide.
• 10:44
  So getting back to your question, our population prior
• 10:49
  to really when China, around the time when China started locking
• 10:53
  up our people into these concentration camps and
• 10:55
  committing this genocide was around 45,000,000.
• 11:00
  This is the Turkic peoples, wee waters and other Turkic peoples.
• 11:04
  And this is based on one historical data, the natural
• 11:08
  rate of growth based on the fact that back in 1946 when we were
• 11:13
  an independent country, our government at that time stated
• 11:16
  our population was at least 7 million.
• 11:19
  In 1949. In December of 1949, after Mao
• 11:23
  took over E Turkestan, he highlighted that there were 9
• 11:26
  million Turk peoples in East Turkestan.
• 11:28
  And then China's own state media in 2018 reported that they
• 11:35
  collected the DNA samples, voice prints and retina scans of 36
• 11:40
  million so-called ethnic minorities.
• 11:42
  And ethnic minorities means people who are not Chinese, any,
• 11:46
  any group that is not Chinese, they're labeled as so-called
• 11:50
  ethnic minorities collectively. So 36 million people within E
• 11:57
  Turkistan between the ages of 12 and 65, their DNA samples, voice
• 12:02
  prints and retinic scans were collected by the Chinese
• 12:05
  government. So that in itself gives you our
• 12:08
  population between the ages of 12 and 65.
• 12:11
  And when you factor in the other, you know those under 12
• 12:15
  and then those over 65 you you you add a couple more million.
• 12:20
  And so we estimate our population was around 45,000,000
• 12:24
  at the time it. Will be a very substantial
• 12:27
  state. Yeah.
• 12:29
  Yeah. Well, in terms of land wise,
• 12:32
  just not just in terms of you know, population, but in terms
• 12:36
  of land area, we make up 1,828,418 square kilometers or
• 12:42
  roughly 1/5 of the current territories under the control of
• 12:48
  the PRC or in European perspective roughly almost four
• 12:56
  times the size of the size of France.
• 12:59
  So it's huge in terms of territory, but it's also very
• 13:05
  rich in natural and mineral resources.
• 13:08
  I. Wanted to ask you, Sally,
• 13:09
  because, Mr. Minister, because the situation is many countries
• 13:13
  in the world are afraid to recognize new countries because
• 13:15
  they think they will be too poor and desperate countries which
• 13:19
  only need subsidizes. But will E Turkestan be a rich
• 13:22
  country or a poor country? We are a rich country.
• 13:26
  We are what's sustaining China. In fact, we supply over 30
• 13:32
  percent, 30% / 33% of Chinas oil and natural gas.
• 13:39
  Oil and natural gas reserves controlled by the PRC comes from
• 13:44
  East Turkistan. 60% of their coal reserves comes from East
• 13:49
  Turkestan. Our if you, if you can Google it
• 13:53
  as well, our electricity. Every year our electricity
• 13:57
  powers hundreds of Chinese cities in all 22 and 22 of
• 14:03
  Chinese China's provinces. And this includes major centers
• 14:07
  like Beijing, Shanghai, Chongqing, Guangzhou.
• 14:12
  In addition to that, our national natural gas, every year
• 14:16
  we supply over 900 billion cubic meters of natural gas to over
• 14:26
  122 Chinese cities in the 22 Chinese provinces.
• 14:31
  E Turkistan is what's sustaining China.
• 14:34
  Without China, without E Turkistan, China would be a much
• 14:39
  the PRC would be a much weaker, much more impoverished country.
• 14:44
  In fact, it's our slave labor. The slave labor are people that
• 14:48
  are sustaining their ability to continue turning out, you know,
• 14:52
  cheap products to saturate the global market.
• 14:57
  If not, the cost of Labor in China has increased.
• 15:00
  They should there's there should be no way that they're able to
• 15:02
  continue, you know, making these very cheap products.
• 15:06
  But the reason they're able to do so is because millions of our
• 15:09
  people are being enslaved to, you know, work in these slave
• 15:14
  factories where they are producing these products.
• 15:18
  We're rich in natural. Mr. Minister, normally because
• 15:21
  China is also a member of WTO since 2001 and they got very,
• 15:26
  very successful economically, but you also need to keep
• 15:30
  certain minimum standards when you are a World Trade
• 15:32
  Organization member, and slave labour is normally not part of
• 15:36
  the economic model, to my best knowledge.
• 15:38
  So why is this allowed that China can exploit that we go so
• 15:43
  brutally enslave them and still compete freely on the world
• 15:47
  markets? Well, that's because
• 15:50
  governments, many governments are hesitant to upset China.
• 15:56
  China has a lot of political, economic clout at international
• 16:02
  institutions and international bodies, whether that's at the
• 16:05
  United Nations or even the World Trade Organization for that
• 16:09
  matter. Many, many of China's largest
• 16:13
  trading partners or many countries largest trading
• 16:16
  partners is China. So they're afraid to, you know,
• 16:21
  upset China, despite the fact that, you know, these are the
• 16:24
  same governments that claim, you know, never again to allowing
• 16:28
  such a genocide like the Holocaust to occur.
• 16:30
  Yet it's occurring in real time in East Turkestan.
• 16:34
  That despite the fact that they're against colonization,
• 16:38
  that they're for self determination, that they're
• 16:40
  against racism and that they're, you know, against slavery, all
• 16:45
  of this is happening because again, these countries are too
• 16:49
  afraid to, you know, actually hold China accountable.
• 16:54
  And part of that reason is because of the industries, the
• 16:58
  corporations that are involved. So many Western countries, like
• 17:02
  for example, in Germany, it's the auto industry that dominates
• 17:06
  German politics. And in many way they help shape
• 17:10
  Germany, Germany's foreign policy in relation to China.
• 17:14
  Because the biggest thing that German companies export to China
• 17:20
  is cars and many of their other, you know, components for their
• 17:25
  cars and other stuff come from China.
• 17:27
  So they're afraid to upset China.
• 17:29
  And that's why Volkswagen, despite the fact that, you know,
• 17:33
  our people were being, you know, enslaved, and Volkswagen itself
• 17:37
  used our people as slave labor and held.
• 17:42
  Seriously, it's European companies who are benefiting,
• 17:46
  directly or indirectly for Uyghur slave laborers.
• 17:50
  Yes, the Volkswagen had a factory in East Turkestan, and
• 17:56
  they just only shut it down last year after, well, they actually
• 18:02
  sold it to a Chinese company. But technically, you know, they
• 18:06
  didn't really shut it down, but they just switched ownership
• 18:10
  after years of criticism and demands for accountability.
• 18:15
  And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
• 18:17
  Almost every industry, everything from, you know,
• 18:22
  electronical components for cars to electronical components for
• 18:27
  cell phones, computers, the critical minerals that are
• 18:33
  needed to, you know, make those chips and so forth, are also
• 18:37
  mined in East Turkestan. The cotton that produces, you
• 18:42
  know, China produces China accounts for roughly 90% of the
• 18:48
  world's cotton supply, 9030% of the world's cotton supply.
• 18:53
  But out of that, 90% of that comes from East Turkestan.
• 19:01
  The tomato paste like companies like Heinz, for example, you
• 19:06
  might in the United States we have Heinz, which is the largest
• 19:10
  tomato you know. It's a global brand.
• 19:13
  We Europeans also eat a lot of American brands and food.
• 19:17
  So all of their, their tomato, you know, that they use for
• 19:25
  their pace and everything that comes from East Turkistan as
• 19:28
  well. So and then you, you talk about
• 19:32
  green energy, a lot of countries are shifting, you know, towards
• 19:35
  green energy, you know. And we get the panels from
• 19:38
  China. Yeah.
• 19:40
  And those solar panels, the polysilicon 40 percent, 45% of
• 19:46
  global polysilicon supplies production comes out of Eastern
• 19:51
  and that's the material that you need to create those solar
• 19:54
  panels. So virtually every industry
• 19:57
  from, you know, the textile industry to the, you know.
• 20:03
  Food and processing industry to the electronic and green energy
• 20:08
  is industry, all of it is tainted by we were slave labor.
• 20:13
  And This is why a lot of companies are, you know,
• 20:17
  benefiting from this. And they in turn are lobbying
• 20:20
  their governments to, you know, not take any real measures to
• 20:24
  hold China accountable. For example, just the other day
• 20:29
  at the UN, they voted to hold China, to hold Russia
• 20:36
  accountable and to demand that Russia return, you know, the the
• 20:42
  10s or thousands of Ukrainian children that they kidnapped and
• 20:47
  to return them to, to their families.
• 20:50
  That's 10s of thousands. And I don't like to compare, but
• 20:53
  compared to our situation that is, you know, very miniscule
• 20:58
  number because in our situation, over a million of our children,
• 21:03
  over 1,000,000 of our children between the ages of two to, you
• 21:08
  know, adults to detain 18 have been forcibly taken from their
• 21:16
  families and put up into state-run so-called orphanages
• 21:21
  and boarding schools over a million.
• 21:24
  And they've been forcibly kidnapped by the Chinese state.
• 21:27
  And in the videos that the Chinese state media and Chinese
• 21:32
  influence propagate is that these we were children we're
• 21:37
  talking about, little toddlers are being dressed up in Chinese
• 21:40
  People's Liberation Army uniforms, being instructed by
• 21:43
  Chinese People's Liberation Army officers.
• 21:47
  And, you know, they're being indoctrinated to become the
• 21:50
  so-called future soldiers of China to fight against the West,
• 21:54
  to fight against, you know, China's enemies.
• 21:58
  And who are China's enemies? Number one enemy is US right now
• 22:01
  inside E Turkestan, outside E Turkestan, that's the United
• 22:05
  States, the EU and so forth. So, but when it comes to this
• 22:10
  government's, no, but they're not saying anything.
• 22:12
  You're not having a similar vote or resolution being implemented
• 22:16
  at the UN. Similarly, you know, the
• 22:20
  International Criminal Court had a case, you know, held an
• 22:25
  investigation over Russia's war crimes in Ukraine and they put
• 22:30
  out an arrest warrant for Putin because of this.
• 22:36
  Yet because, and a lot of European countries and even the
• 22:40
  United States, which was which is against the ICC in, in in
• 22:45
  all, you know, aspects, it's against it.
• 22:48
  But it, you know, under the table gave, you know, supported
• 22:53
  the, the, the investigation against, you know, Russia's
• 22:57
  crimes. But when it comes to ours,
• 22:59
  there's no investigation. There's no, you know,
• 23:02
  accountability. There's no, you know,
• 23:04
  condemnation. Every now and then, you know,
• 23:07
  they'll give a, a lip service, you know, statement saying we're
• 23:10
  concerned. But this genocide started in
• 23:13
  2014. It's ongoing.
• 23:16
  This occupation started in 1949. It's ongoing for the past 76
• 23:22
  years. We, our population went from
• 23:25
  over 95% of the the demographics in East Rakistan to less than
• 23:31
  58% today. The Chinese grew from less than
• 23:34
  2% and that 2% in 1949 was the 200,000 Chinese soldiers and
• 23:41
  their civil servants and family members.
• 23:44
  So there were actually a settler population in that sense, but
• 23:48
  they went from less than 2% in 1949 to over 40% today.
• 23:54
  This is there is no rate of colonization, no rate of
• 23:59
  genocide as brutal as this, especially in the 20th and 21st
• 24:03
  century. Mr. Minister, the Chinese, what
• 24:08
  was the vote on the abduction of Ukrainian children's by Russia
• 24:14
  in the UN? Well, about 60, I mean, about 90
• 24:19
  countries supported the resolution.
• 24:22
  So it passed. About 60 countries abstained.
• 24:26
  And of course Russia's key, you know, allies.
• 24:31
  I think there's about like a dozen or so who voted against
• 24:34
  it. But it, it, it passed, you know,
• 24:38
  over, over with a majority. Today's communist China, which
• 24:43
  occupied to your country in 49 when the communist took over the
• 24:47
  whole of the Chinese territory. And they basically run China
• 24:51
  today as well and they're getting ever closer towards
• 24:54
  genocidal Russia. So what's your opinion about
• 24:57
  current foreign policy of China and their close alignment with
• 25:01
  Russia? Well, I mean, China's
• 25:05
  relationship with Russia, if you look at it over the past 100
• 25:10
  plus 150 years, it's always been opportunistic.
• 25:14
  China doesn't really trust the Russians in in a real sense,
• 25:18
  just like they don't trust any other nation for that matter.
• 25:21
  But they they take, they take advantage of whatever
• 25:26
  opportunities that arise. So right now, the reason China's
• 25:30
  alliance with Russia is 1, they're facing the same enemy in
• 25:35
  the, in the sense that, you know, both Russia is against the
• 25:37
  West, against Europe, against the US, against NATO.
• 25:42
  China also views the United States, the EU and NATO as its
• 25:48
  enemies, you know, so that's just why they're aligning with
• 25:52
  Russia, you know, especially economically, politically and
• 25:56
  militarily. In fact, it's why China, you
• 26:00
  know, it was after Putin attended the 2022 Winter
• 26:06
  Olympics and made a secret agreement with China,
• 26:11
  essentially Xi Jinping green lighted the invasion of Ukraine
• 26:15
  saying if anything happens, I got your back.
• 26:18
  And that's essentially that's been the case.
• 26:20
  The reason the war has stretched out this long is because China
• 26:25
  is serving as a financial and, you know, technical, logistical
• 26:33
  lifeline keeping, you know, the Russian economy, the Russian
• 26:38
  army afloat. And of course, China is doing
• 26:41
  this because prior to to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, our
• 26:47
  issue, the genocide of the waters was making headlines.
• 26:51
  We were getting some progress. Governments were condemning
• 26:55
  China's genocidal campaigns. It was in 2021 and 2022 that
• 27:01
  governments in the EU and the US and other places began
• 27:05
  condemning it and recognizing it as genocide.
• 27:08
  It was also at the UN that they led numerous similar resolutions
• 27:12
  condemning the the atrocities. And there there were, you know,
• 27:17
  efforts to hold China accountable.
• 27:19
  But China found the opportunity to distract the international
• 27:23
  community and to, you know, put them in into the into this
• 27:28
  conflict to where now you see many countries are saying, oh,
• 27:32
  we have to, you know, you know, appease China.
• 27:35
  We have to ask China nicely, can you get the Russians to stop
• 27:39
  this war? Can you get Russia to, you know,
• 27:42
  stop bombing Ukraine, these types of things.
• 27:45
  When in reality, China was worried that the attention would
• 27:50
  be on it. So it shifted the attention away
• 27:53
  from its crimes to another field, into a conflict.
• 27:57
  And this is this is the dynamics of this relationship.
• 28:00
  Such some compare this kind of pact between Chi Communist
• 28:05
  Chinas, Chi the of China and Putin with the Hitler, Stalin,
• 28:11
  Ribkintorff, Molotov pact of 39 which has enabled the Second
• 28:16
  World War happening. And you think that without this
• 28:20
  pact of the Olympic Games 2022 between Putin and Chai and Chi,
• 28:26
  there would have been no free hand for Russia to attack
• 28:30
  Ukraine? I mean, it, it would have been
• 28:33
  very, very difficult if there hadn't been this alliance.
• 28:36
  I think the Russians would have, you know, think you know more
• 28:40
  carefully about how, how to do it because again, they need
• 28:43
  economic and political resources to to, you know, sustain the,
• 28:49
  their war efforts. And if they don't have countries
• 28:52
  like China, you know, offering them a lifeline, the likelihood
• 28:57
  of them succeeding in the war or even, you know, succeeding in,
• 29:01
  in, in prolonging the war is going to be very slim.
• 29:04
  And so, yeah, I, I think so. But.
• 29:08
  Tell me how your situation of your people in East Turkestan
• 29:11
  has deteriorated during the war in the last 3 1/2 years.
• 29:15
  So what was the reaction internally?
• 29:18
  Did China continue to crack down and the genocide against your
• 29:21
  people? Yes.
• 29:23
  In fact, they've done it even a more brutal, brutal way because
• 29:28
  now international attention is away.
• 29:31
  The international community is no longer, you know, paying
• 29:34
  attention. They're no longer talking about
• 29:36
  the issue. Governments know, but they're no
• 29:38
  longer able to even, you know, condemn China, even the United
• 29:42
  States, which recognizes it as an ongoing genocide.
• 29:47
  And Secretary Rubio, he was our biggest champion during when the
• 29:54
  time he was, you know, a congressman, I mean, a senator,
• 30:00
  and then after becoming Secretary of State, completely
• 30:03
  silent. In fact, the US is, you know,
• 30:06
  trying to, you know, engage in some sort of deals with China
• 30:10
  and even cooperation on on some issues again.
• 30:14
  But he was a very big hero of the Contain China policy, and he
• 30:19
  was criticizing Biden so much for his being weak on China.
• 30:24
  And he was a hawk. And now he's more focused with
• 30:27
  Europe and Elon Musk than with Russia and China.
• 30:30
  It's a strange reversal. Well, it's again, because every
• 30:35
  country, they have this illusion that oh, we have to appease
• 30:39
  China, China is what can get the Russians to stop their war.
• 30:44
  So we have to be careful or else, you know, this war will
• 30:48
  prolong when in reality, if you want to, you know, in the war
• 30:54
  quickly, the the best thing to do is do the same thing that we
• 30:58
  did to Russia economically, you know, ostracize them, you know,
• 31:04
  push them out of, you know, global markets.
• 31:07
  Stop buying Chinese goods, you know, start holding them
• 31:11
  accountable for their atrocities.
• 31:13
  We need similar resolutions, similar, you know,
• 31:18
  investigations into their crimes.
• 31:20
  All of these things need to happen.
• 31:21
  And then the Chinese will cave. And then once the Chinese are
• 31:24
  weak, the Russians automatically, they won't have
• 31:27
  anyone to, you know, look up. Mr. Minister, there is a Senator
• 31:30
  in the US Senate called Lindsey Graham.
• 31:33
  He has put a very, very strict sanction package and secondary
• 31:37
  sanctions on India and China in the US Congress.
• 31:40
  What do you think about it and should it be approved?
• 31:44
  I think it needs to be approved because again, what's happening
• 31:49
  is these without those sanctions won, this conflict is going to
• 31:55
  continue. It's going to continue killing
• 31:57
  people on both sides. You know, you have Russian, you
• 32:01
  know, people are dying as well, Russians, young soldiers and
• 32:04
  many of them are ethnically, you know, non Russians like from
• 32:08
  Siberia, ethnically Turkic and other people who are being
• 32:13
  drafted essentially or forced to fight and they're they're ending
• 32:17
  up dying. You have, you know, you know,
• 32:20
  Ukrainians that are dying, people are dying on both sides.
• 32:25
  This needs to stop. This war needs to stop.
• 32:28
  And what's going to stop a war? Well, what's continuing the war?
• 32:32
  The fact that there is an economic lifeline, whether
• 32:34
  that's through Russia, through China mostly and then India, you
• 32:39
  know, purchasing oils, I mean, in India's, you know, it's I
• 32:46
  think India's being just opportunist opportunity stick
• 32:49
  here, you know, trying to get some cheap oil, not necessarily.
• 32:54
  And you know, alignment with, you know, Russia's goals in
• 32:57
  Russia and Ukraine, but China's definitely in alignment.
• 33:02
  And by putting secondary sanctions, we not only are able
• 33:07
  to, you know, bring a quicker into this war, but, you know,
• 33:13
  this also, you know, prohibits those countries as well from
• 33:17
  getting involved in, you know, potential, you know, shares of
• 33:21
  these crimes. And then hopefully the
• 33:23
  international community, once this war ends, can focus on the
• 33:28
  other existential threat to the whole global community, which is
• 33:32
  China. And this is a threat not just
• 33:35
  to, you know, the, the people under it's occupation or the
• 33:39
  countries in the, in the, in the, in the Pacific, but it's a
• 33:42
  threat to the United States. It's a threat to the EU.
• 33:46
  Many EU, you know, companies have been put out of business
• 33:51
  because of China's, you know, aggressive technological and
• 33:57
  economic espionage. You know, it, it was, it was
• 34:01
  German, you know, for example, even for example, BMWs and all
• 34:05
  these, you know, German auto industries, all of their
• 34:08
  technology have been stolen because they're like, oh, we
• 34:10
  want to, you know, work with China.
• 34:11
  We want to invest in China. China has, you know, stolen
• 34:14
  their technologies. And now Chinese auto mark,
• 34:19
  Chinese automobiles, especially in the EVEV sector, are
• 34:22
  entering, crouching across across the world.
• 34:25
  In fact, they're more dominant than their European and American
• 34:29
  counterparts in, in this in this case.
• 34:32
  So that's been, that's one aspect.
• 34:36
  Other aspects is, you know, other whether it's through the
• 34:40
  AI industry or other, you know, manufacturing, you know.
• 34:45
  Mr. Mr. Foreign Minister, Mr. Foreign Minister, let me ask you
• 34:48
  about your foreign policy towards Ukraine.
• 34:51
  Are you supporting Ukraine? Yes, I mean Ukraine has a right
• 34:56
  to defense. We believe all nations,
• 35:00
  sovereign nations, have a right to, you know, defend themselves
• 35:04
  from foreign aggression and invasion, just like, you know,
• 35:09
  we have the we believe that the East Rakistani people have a
• 35:13
  right to, you know, defend themselves and resist against
• 35:17
  foreign colonial domination, occupation, and, you know,
• 35:21
  genocide. Ukraine has recognised the
• 35:23
  Republic of Chechnya, Chechnya as a independent country, I
• 35:28
  think two years ago during the war.
• 35:30
  But how is it with the relation with E Turkestan?
• 35:33
  Has Ukraine already recognised your Excel government?
• 35:36
  No, unfortunately not. We've tried to engage with the
• 35:42
  Ukrainian government. You know, their parliament was
• 35:47
  one of the few that did condemn the ongoing genocide in East
• 35:52
  Turkistan. However, because Ukraine also,
• 35:57
  because of its, you know, foreign policy, it believes that
• 36:01
  China can stop this, you know, Russia's invasion as well.
• 36:06
  So it's trying to, you know, do. You think that's a illusion?
• 36:09
  That's a illusion that Ukraine is always trying China, China,
• 36:13
  help us end the war. Do you think that's good foreign
• 36:16
  policy or that's based on a illusion?
• 36:19
  It's, it's based on illusion because so long like the reason
• 36:22
  China's supporting this war again is not, you know, it's
• 36:26
  because twofold. One, it's against a common
• 36:29
  enemy. China views the, the Western
• 36:32
  countries, Europe, NATO, the US as an enemy state, as their, you
• 36:39
  know, enemies that they need to weaken.
• 36:40
  So anything, any, any conflict that would potentially weaken
• 36:45
  those countries, China supports that one.
• 36:49
  That's the, that's the main reason.
• 36:51
  The second reason is, as I stated earlier, this distracts
• 36:55
  the world from China's actual crimes, from, from holding China
• 36:59
  accountable for its crimes, from pressuring China.
• 37:02
  So this relieves the pressure that China is facing, you know,
• 37:07
  in East Turkestan over the genocide and colonization in
• 37:11
  East Turkestan. So of course, they don't want
• 37:13
  this war to end. In fact, if if it's left to
• 37:16
  China, they want this war to continue progressing to where
• 37:20
  both sides, both Russia is weakened, both the European
• 37:25
  countries, the United States, NATO is weakened to where China
• 37:29
  can just, you know, continue strengthening itself, empowering
• 37:33
  itself and slowly start, you know, taking over other nations
• 37:37
  like Chinas already engaging in neo colonialism in large parts
• 37:45
  of Siberia. So.
• 37:48
  Dear minister, let me ask you, has your government in exile of
• 37:51
  East Turkestan already recognized the exile government
• 37:54
  of Chechnya? Yes, we we have held numerous
• 37:58
  meetings. What what the exile government
• 38:05
  of Ichiria or Chechnya and we we've have, you know, a friendly
• 38:10
  relationship with with the Chechen people and.
• 38:14
  Let let me ask you, because when Russia breaks up and will be ex
• 38:17
  Russia, which we very much hope, I think so it's very good idea.
• 38:21
  There will be many new countries north of East Turkistan and you
• 38:25
  think you will have new neighbor neighbors there?
• 38:27
  As far as I understand the geography and many of the
• 38:30
  countries will be like similar countries like East Turkistan.
• 38:34
  Do you hope to have good relation with them?
• 38:37
  I mean, we want to have good relations with all of our
• 38:40
  neighbors, you know, even, you know, in terms of China is our
• 38:45
  neighbor as well. Like quite frankly, we want to
• 38:49
  have, you know, good relations with them too, in the future.
• 38:53
  Once they, you know, you know, apologize for their crimes, once
• 38:58
  they are held accountable for their crimes, once they give the
• 39:01
  necessary reparations for the crimes that they have been
• 39:05
  committing, We're not, you know, we're not hostile in the sense
• 39:09
  that we're not against, you know, you know, China existing.
• 39:13
  China has a right to exist. The Chinese, you know, they have
• 39:16
  a right to exist. And we have coexisted as
• 39:19
  neighboring states for thousands of years.
• 39:22
  Some periods we fought one another, you know, as, as is the
• 39:26
  case, whether that's, you know, China trying to invade us or and
• 39:31
  in some case we even rescued China from other foreign
• 39:35
  invasions, you know, you know, when China had it.
• 39:41
  Do you minister what kind of state you will be when you have
• 39:44
  the full power and authority after the exile government takes
• 39:47
  power over the whole of East Turkistan, after a potential
• 39:51
  fall into ex China? What kind of state will you be?
• 39:54
  Will you join BRICS and the Shanghai Cooperation
• 39:58
  Organization or will you join the free world and work with
• 40:01
  NATO, EU and the western world? And will you establish freedom
• 40:05
  in your nation or will you also go in the kind of like the
• 40:09
  Turkistan for example, which is more authoritarian state or
• 40:13
  Uzbekistan which is part of the free world, Kazakhstan as well?
• 40:16
  What kind of role model you have for independence E Turkey?
• 40:21
  Well, our government in exile right now, like our, our mandate
• 40:26
  is that we represent E Turkistan's independence and
• 40:32
  sovereignty and the struggle to recover its independence and
• 40:35
  sovereignty until, you know, the East Turkistan Republic is re
• 40:39
  established. And thereupon after that, it's
• 40:42
  the people of East Turkistan who will decide, you know, and elect
• 40:47
  their own, you know, full permanent government.
• 40:51
  So we're not out there to, you know, become the the government
• 40:55
  in East Turkistan upon independence.
• 40:58
  I mean, will we continue to serve our country and
• 41:01
  government? Yes.
• 41:03
  So that that's that's a different thing.
• 41:05
  Coming back to your question, absolutely not.
• 41:08
  We are not going to join the SCO.
• 41:10
  In fact, the SCO, China created the Shanghai Cooperation
• 41:15
  Organization specifically to target and subvert and destroy
• 41:21
  our independence movement. That was the main purpose of the
• 41:25
  Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
• 41:27
  That is why China created it. So we're not going to be joining
• 41:31
  an organization that is against that has been critical in
• 41:38
  undermining our independence and sovereignty and, you know,
• 41:41
  facilitating Chinese colonization, genocide and
• 41:45
  expansion into Central Asia. That being said, we our foreign
• 41:50
  policy is, again, we want to have friendly relations with all
• 41:55
  of our neighbors especially, and we want to, you know, have a
• 42:00
  democratic society. Our role model, quite frankly,
• 42:04
  is based on looking at the different systems across the
• 42:08
  world and their level of development that they were able
• 42:13
  to undertake. I, I, I look at Japan, I look at
• 42:17
  South Korea in terms of the economic economics, in terms of,
• 42:24
  you know, the political system, our, our, even our, our
• 42:28
  government in exile, our parliamentary system is kind of
• 42:32
  like based off of the UK. We, we don't really have a
• 42:36
  presidential system in, in, in terms of government.
• 42:39
  We have a symbolic, you know, president as the, the, the head
• 42:44
  of state, but the head of government is like our Prime
• 42:46
  Minister, you know, we share close cultural, ethnic and
• 42:53
  religious ties with the people of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan.
• 42:57
  I believe that we will be even more, more better than them in
• 43:04
  many, in many aspects. But at the very worst case
• 43:08
  scenario, we we, we won't be, you know, much different from,
• 43:14
  you know, Kazakhstan or a big style in terms of our our
• 43:19
  economic and political policies visa the international
• 43:25
  community. Of course, we want strong
• 43:27
  relations with the EU. We want strong relations with
• 43:32
  the United States. Again, these are countries that,
• 43:36
  you know, are, are that can provide us with, you know,
• 43:40
  technological and intellectual, you know, tools to empower our,
• 43:52
  our nation. We have the resources.
• 43:55
  So, you know, we have a lot of resources we need, we need to be
• 43:58
  able to use that effectively. And, you know, we can learn from
• 44:05
  the, the, the US and the EU in terms of their governance.
• 44:09
  Take parts where you know the good parts where it's been
• 44:12
  successful, and then you know, try to use.
• 44:17
  The minister, the other big independence movement and excel
• 44:20
  government inside China, which is also a victim of the Chinese
• 44:24
  Communist takeover of 1949, is Tibet.
• 44:28
  Tibet also has, to my knowledge, excel government.
• 44:31
  And do you also work together? Do you support Tibet's freedom?
• 44:37
  Yes, we absolutely support Tibet's freedom and
• 44:41
  independence. We try to cooperate with them as
• 44:45
  much as possible. Their government and exiles
• 44:49
  official policy is that they are not advocating for independence.
• 44:55
  Rather, they are trying to find a so-called middle way approach
• 45:02
  within, you know, China where they get some, you know,
• 45:05
  cultural autonomy and then politically they, they, they are
• 45:10
  fine with remaining under China. For us, we, we don't see that as
• 45:15
  acceptable from our, our, our part.
• 45:18
  Again, we, we try to partner with Tibetan organizations that
• 45:25
  actually call for independence, that actually strive to re re
• 45:31
  establish Tibetans independence. In our case, independence is
• 45:35
  completely non negotiable. Our, you know, talks of autonomy
• 45:42
  and other things are not acceptable for us.
• 45:45
  We've been, we've been fed that pacifier, those lies several
• 45:49
  times over the past 100 years. Each time it had ended more
• 45:54
  disasterly than previously than before the current stage.
• 46:00
  Right now, China recently celebrated 70 years of, you
• 46:04
  know, giving so-called autonomy to East Turkestan.
• 46:07
  Officially they call East Turkestan the so-called
• 46:10
  Xinjiang. We were autonomous region, but
• 46:13
  that so-called autonomy. It has brought us nothing but
• 46:16
  extensive colonization, forced assimilation, genocide,
• 46:20
  enslavement. It reduced us from again 9 / 95%
• 46:25
  of the population to less than 58% today.
• 46:29
  It brought the Chinese colonists invaders from less than 2% to
• 46:34
  over 40% today. That is what autonomy has
• 46:37
  brought us for us. The only way for our people to
• 46:41
  guarantee to safeguard our human rights, our freedoms and our
• 46:46
  very existence is through restoring an independent E
• 46:51
  Turkistan Republic by having our own sovereign independent state
• 46:54
  because the. Minister Mr. Minister, in the
• 46:57
  case of Ex Russia, there is also a movement of post Russia where
• 47:02
  all the independence movements work together since 3 1/2 years
• 47:06
  to meet regularly have mutually recognized.
• 47:09
  Some of them have Excel government, some of them are in
• 47:11
  the development like for example Tata Stan and Chechenia.
• 47:16
  Some others at least they are movements and they are in kind
• 47:19
  of coordination. In the case of Ex China, is
• 47:22
  there other independence movements in China beside the
• 47:26
  Excel government of East Turkestan and the Excel
• 47:29
  government of Tibet? Do you see other like I met once
• 47:33
  a gentleman from Free Shanghai? And are there other movements
• 47:37
  which potentially could work together in order to shape and
• 47:40
  reshape the structure of of the Asian continents?
• 47:45
  There's also the free nation leagues I think of.
• 47:49
  I saw some map where they have some plans for independence.
• 47:52
  Maybe you can elaborate on that one.
• 47:55
  Yes, there are there are actually other groups like the
• 47:59
  most major one in terms of, you know, manpower size and you know
• 48:06
  how, how it's known in the international community and the,
• 48:09
  the, the probability the biggest one is again, he struck us down,
• 48:15
  Tibet, southern Mongolia, there's Hong Kong, Manchuria as
• 48:21
  well. Historically, presently it's
• 48:24
  very difficult. Again, without external support,
• 48:29
  the likelihood of getting independence is going to be
• 48:33
  extremely, extremely difficult. And then there are other small
• 48:37
  regional, you know, a lesser known independence movements as,
• 48:42
  as you mentioned, like independence movement of
• 48:46
  Shanghai as well as others like Kubustan and all these different
• 48:51
  things. You know, there's actually
• 48:54
  dozens of smaller, lesser known independence movements or groups
• 49:00
  seeking independence for specific regions that are under
• 49:06
  the PRC. But the, the, the, the five main
• 49:09
  ones are, are the ones that I highlighted, eastern Tibet,
• 49:15
  southern Mongolia, Hong Kong and, and Manchuria.
• 49:20
  The other ones, you know, we try to, to, to engage with some of
• 49:26
  them and even try to cooperate with some of them.
• 49:31
  But again, there's also the issue of some of these groups,
• 49:36
  they're like, oh, you know, even though they want independence or
• 49:41
  are seeking independence from the, the PRC, they still have a
• 49:49
  certain type of mentality or, or views that has been again,
• 49:55
  shaped by decades of Chinese Communist fascist ideology
• 50:01
  towards the people of Easter Kasana and so forth.
• 50:04
  So again, we try to focus on the like, you know, our cooperate
• 50:10
  with those that we can cooperate where we have, you know, some
• 50:13
  commonality and then you know. Mr. Minister, to my best of my
• 50:17
  knowledge, you are probably the most advanced of all present
• 50:21
  exile governments in the world. Yeah, you have a democratic
• 50:25
  legitimacy, a structure case in the kind of existence which is
• 50:33
  not so easy for exile government and for movement to establish.
• 50:38
  And you are like a role model for the world and many nations
• 50:41
  inside Russia, inside China, they look up to you and want to
• 50:45
  be as structured and organized as E Turkistan.
• 50:49
  Can you describe a little bit your unique legal situation and
• 50:55
  also your structural organization as a role model for
• 50:58
  many of the emerging states out of X Russia and X China?
• 51:03
  Yes, I would, I would disagree that we are the best example.
• 51:09
  In fact, I'd look up to we, we look up to, you know, in terms
• 51:14
  of the structure, the Tibetan government in exile, they
• 51:19
  actually have a, an entire city in, in India called Ramsala with
• 51:26
  100,000 people, Tibetans which make up their, you know, the
• 51:30
  seat of their government in exile.
• 51:34
  They have, you know, more, much more, you know, developed
• 51:40
  institutions. Again, this is because of they
• 51:45
  have, you know, a larger population base.
• 51:48
  They have more financial resources.
• 51:52
  You know, they receive, you know, anywhere from 40 to $60
• 51:57
  million annually from various governments across the world.
• 52:01
  That the one that's publicly available information is that
• 52:05
  then, you know, they operate even businesses they have
• 52:11
  official, you know, de facto embassies and, and 10 major
• 52:17
  capitals across the world that, that you know, that they have,
• 52:22
  you know, you know, you know, series of government buildings,
• 52:28
  parliaments, all of these different things within their
• 52:33
  own exile city of Dharamsala. So that that's something that we
• 52:39
  had aspired for, but today we don't have you.
• 52:42
  Know just the second best, but you're one of the best at least,
• 52:45
  yeah. So because I would.
• 52:47
  Like to elaborate a little bit on your role model, because I
• 52:50
  know now many of these emerging movements from Russia and from
• 52:53
  China, from India, from Nigeria, from Syria, and they all ask me
• 52:57
  a little bit, you know, how to exactly do a excel government.
• 53:01
  And the most experience we have in the West is of course the
• 53:04
  exile government of Poland, Czechoslovakia.
• 53:07
  There was London, the city of hope and freedom and during the
• 53:11
  Second World War and during communism.
• 53:13
  And now we have achieved a lot of liberation.
• 53:16
  So they moved back. And of course Poland is free,
• 53:19
  Hungary is free. And all this period of exile
• 53:22
  governments towards Nazi. And so it's time is over, but we
• 53:25
  still have some present exile governments.
• 53:28
  And yours is basically the city on the Hill.
• 53:32
  And you are based, I think, in the city on the Hill in
• 53:35
  Washington, DC And that's possible to have Excel
• 53:39
  government there. I'm not sure if all countries
• 53:42
  allow that. And what is your legal status?
• 53:45
  And that's very interesting for many who watch and hope to be
• 53:49
  part of Excel government in the future, and also to fight for
• 53:53
  the freedom of their suppressed and colonialized nations.
• 53:57
  Yeah. So our model, our story is a bit
• 54:02
  unique in the sense that we had previously our predecessors had
• 54:10
  repeatedly tried to set up an exile government.
• 54:13
  And in fact, the first initial steps was when remnants of the
• 54:19
  former E Turkistan Republic, they fled into present day
• 54:24
  Kazakhstan, back then the Soviet Union, which is part of the
• 54:27
  Soviet Union. This was in 1949 when the Red
• 54:30
  Communists. Took over, No 1919, sixties,
• 54:33
  1960s, yeah, 1960s, where they tried to set up from our
• 54:40
  knowledge of government exile. Of course, the Soviet Union did
• 54:43
  not allow allow that. So they created the East
• 54:48
  Trekstown National Committee without the government in exile,
• 54:52
  calling it a government in exile.
• 54:54
  That was our de facto government exile for the longest time.
• 54:58
  Then, you know, after the creation of the SCO, the Central
• 55:04
  Asian governments began to, you know, crack down on our
• 55:09
  independence movement and, in fact, made it illegal in those
• 55:14
  countries to advocate for Easter.
• 55:16
  Estan's independence in those countries is like a crime
• 55:22
  because, again, they're part of the SCO.
• 55:24
  So our leaders, they mean. The Shanghai cooperation.
• 55:28
  Yeah, yeah, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
• 55:31
  So our our leaders then try to persuade, you know, the
• 55:36
  international, you know, other governments, you know, we looked
• 55:39
  up to Turkey as our brother nation.
• 55:41
  Turkey refused. You know many others.
• 55:45
  Not so supportive. They like to make business with
• 55:49
  China and are not so supportive of.
• 55:52
  Turkey is one of the key countries outside after China.
• 55:59
  I would say Turkey played the biggest, second, biggest role in
• 56:04
  undermining our independence movement and in facilitating
• 56:08
  Chinese colonization and its genocidal campaign in East
• 56:12
  Turkestan. Turkey acts as the velvet glove,
• 56:17
  you know, for China's hands. So China influences much of our
• 56:23
  diaspora communities, our organizations and our movement
• 56:28
  to a very deep extent to where many of our organizations,
• 56:32
  movements, diaspora communities, including leadership are heavily
• 56:37
  compromised. But on the surface, all you see
• 56:41
  is Turkey's hand. Turkey's the one who's, you
• 56:45
  know, engaging with these groups, Turkey's the one who's
• 56:48
  supporting them financially, etcetera.
• 56:51
  But in reality, it's China and they're all anti independence.
• 56:55
  All these groups are anti independence.
• 56:57
  They will undermine our efforts to seek independence.
• 57:01
  So this is the way Turkey plays since, especially since 1996,
• 57:07
  unfortunately. So in 2004, actually we had a an
• 57:13
  entity called the Eastern National Congress that all of
• 57:18
  our and that that was we tried to create that as a government
• 57:23
  in exile back in the 90s. And it was initially set up in
• 57:27
  1992 with representatives of all the major E Turkistani
• 57:32
  organizations. And it was it's mandate was to
• 57:36
  advocate and represent our right to independence and sovereignty
• 57:41
  and to struggle for that. However, Chinese intelligence
• 57:46
  operations. In fact, in December, in March
• 57:50
  of 1996, the Chinese CCP Polar Bureau Standing Committee, which
• 57:55
  is the top 7 officials of China, they held a top secret meeting
• 57:59
  in Beijing on preventing E Turkistan's independence.
• 58:03
  And they issued a series of a 10 point directive and subverting
• 58:10
  our independence movement. And this ranged from, you know,
• 58:13
  crushing our language, our culture, our religion, to
• 58:17
  settling more Chinese colonists in East Turkestan, to deploying
• 58:21
  more Chinese troops. And then Directive 8, it
• 58:24
  specifically called for Co opting Kazakhstan, Turkey,
• 58:29
  Kyrgyzstan, which were we which were the basis of operation for
• 58:34
  our independence movement back in the day, especially
• 58:36
  Kazakhstan, and using them to suppress our independence
• 58:41
  movement. And then to it also calls for
• 58:45
  engaging in dialogue, you know, talking with our overseas, our
• 58:48
  diaspora organizations, leaders, winning most of them to our
• 58:53
  side, meaning China's side, and then alienating, marginalizing
• 58:58
  and fighting against the remaining small number,
• 59:00
  so-called small number being those who refuse to give up
• 59:04
  independence. And so this was the the game and
• 59:08
  China was the Chinese intelligence propaganda
• 59:13
  apparatuses were instructed to, you know, create all types of
• 59:16
  propaganda to, you know, use all means to prevent the
• 59:22
  internationalization of these Turkstan problem.
• 59:24
  So this was in March of 1996. Less than a week later, China
• 59:31
  launches strike hard campaign against so-called national
• 59:35
  separatism. And then by December of 1996,
• 59:39
  China and Turkey sign sign a secret military and intelligence
• 59:45
  cooperation agreement and Turkey began to subvert our
• 59:49
  independence movement, which was getting some attention at that
• 59:52
  time. In fact, you know there was a
• 59:56
  low simmering insurgency within E Turkistan itself at that time.
• 1:00:00
  Lot of mass protests, you know, some small scale armed.
• 1:00:08
  Attacks against Chinese military base bases, including nuclear
• 1:00:12
  facilities, these types of things were happening.
• 1:00:15
  Central Asia was our base of operations like Kazakhstan,
• 1:00:19
  because we have very large diaspora community there.
• 1:00:22
  And then in 1990, six, it's actually a week, two weeks after
• 1:00:29
  document #7 in April. This is when China creates the
• 1:00:32
  Shanghai 5 Organization, the immediate precursor of the
• 1:00:38
  Shanghai Cooperation Organization, specifically to
• 1:00:41
  fight against E Turkistan's independence movement.
• 1:00:45
  So by 1996. Part of their strategy, the
• 1:00:48
  whole history of the Shanghai cooperation is basically part of
• 1:00:51
  the Chinese strategy to be nice to the neighboring states in
• 1:00:55
  order to suppress you the independence movement of East
• 1:00:58
  Turkestan. So.
• 1:00:59
  I never liked the CSO anyhow and now I even despise it more.
• 1:01:05
  Yeah. So by 1997, our independent, by
• 1:01:08
  the end of 1998, our independence movement in Central
• 1:01:11
  Asia was crushed. Similarly in Turkey, the same
• 1:01:14
  thing the Eastern Standard National Congress which we which
• 1:01:18
  our predecessors established in 1992, it began to fragment as
• 1:01:23
  well. And then new groups or new
• 1:01:28
  individuals fresh out of E Turkestan began to emerge in the
• 1:01:32
  diaspora and they began to argue against independence and stating
• 1:01:37
  that the West won't support it, the international community
• 1:01:40
  won't support it. We're better off advocating for
• 1:01:43
  human rights and genuine autonomy in China, under China.
• 1:01:47
  And by 2004, the East Turkestan national.
• 1:01:51
  In fact, in 2002, China's own internal documents stated that
• 1:01:56
  by within the next two years they would completely resolve
• 1:02:00
  the East Turkestan problem. And in 2004, the East Turkestan
• 1:02:04
  National Congress, you know, because of the, the, the
• 1:02:10
  differences that had been getting, you know, shifting over
• 1:02:13
  the years, it's split in two with those who are like, oh, we
• 1:02:17
  want to remain under China. We're going to, you know, avoid
• 1:02:21
  undermining China's, you know, territorial integrity, blah,
• 1:02:23
  blah, blah. We'll, you know, ask for genuine
• 1:02:26
  autonomy and human rights. Before we was before that, all
• 1:02:30
  of our organizations and our entire movement was known as E
• 1:02:33
  Turkestan. We advocated for the entire
• 1:02:36
  country's independence, not just one ethnic group.
• 1:02:38
  So this happened in April 2004 and caused caused to the split
• 1:02:44
  of the National Congress where it became the autonomy and those
• 1:02:49
  who wish to remain under China became the world weaker
• 1:02:52
  Congress. And then our leaders, our
• 1:02:57
  predecessors who refused to give up on independence, they were
• 1:03:00
  able to persuade folks here in Washington because no other
• 1:03:04
  place would give us the opportunity to actually
• 1:03:08
  establish a government in exile to keep our independence
• 1:03:11
  struggle alive. Finally, you know, they were
• 1:03:15
  able to convoke convince folks here in Washington.
• 1:03:18
  And so our government in exile was formally established in
• 1:03:21
  September 14th, 2004 in Washington, DC.
• 1:03:25
  And it's a parliamentary based government in exile in which we
• 1:03:28
  have a parliament which is elected from our diaspora
• 1:03:33
  community every four years. Members of our diaspora
• 1:03:38
  community in host countries, each host country to avoid one
• 1:03:42
  country from dominating our government.
• 1:03:47
  You know, one host country from dominating our government, we
• 1:03:52
  our constitution and the, the, the way it was, you know, it was
• 1:03:58
  that each host country can elect at maximum 10 representatives to
• 1:04:03
  our parliament. And so every four years our
• 1:04:08
  countries were in countries where we have a large diaspora
• 1:04:12
  community or a sizable diaspora community, there are
• 1:04:15
  parliamentary elections. People within our, our, in those
• 1:04:19
  diaspora communities who are over the age of 18 can be
• 1:04:22
  nominated, can either nominate themselves or can, you know, be
• 1:04:29
  nominated to run for, you know, as a parliamentary candidate for
• 1:04:36
  in those countries. However, they must have no
• 1:04:39
  political, economic or financial dealings with, with, with with
• 1:04:45
  China. They must not be anyone who who
• 1:04:49
  comes from a family that has served in the Chinese government
• 1:04:53
  or their security and intelligence apparatuses.
• 1:04:56
  So there are again, these are to ensure that the Chinese
• 1:05:00
  government doesn't infiltrate our government.
• 1:05:03
  So they. Would love to try.
• 1:05:06
  Yeah. And they have previously in many
• 1:05:10
  instances they have. Again, this was done mostly
• 1:05:14
  through Turkey because it's the least susceptible one, because
• 1:05:19
  we have this, our people have this naive belief, oh, Turkey is
• 1:05:22
  our brother nation. Turkey would never harm us.
• 1:05:26
  Turkey would never sell us out. When Turkey is a government,
• 1:05:29
  it's it's not in, in, in politics.
• 1:05:32
  Yeah, much more interested in the Chinese investments and.
• 1:05:36
  Exactly, and they care about interest, they don't care about
• 1:05:39
  your brotherhood, they don't care about your cultural
• 1:05:42
  religious ties, that it's just lip service that they gave to
• 1:05:47
  fool you and their populist when in reality.
• 1:05:50
  While they are so happy in the Turkish Council, they have their
• 1:05:53
  own foreign policy unit, it's called the Turkish Council,
• 1:05:56
  where they think they are great solidarity brothers with the
• 1:06:01
  Turkish nations of Asia. But when?
• 1:06:03
  It comes to solidarity with the East.
• 1:06:05
  Turkish done. Big zero even minus yeah.
• 1:06:09
  BIG0 not only a big minus, they actively support China's
• 1:06:13
  genocidal policies. I mean, if if they were
• 1:06:16
  completely silent, I told this to, you know, Turkish officials
• 1:06:22
  numerous times. I said I'm not.
• 1:06:24
  We're not upset at you guys because you're not helping us.
• 1:06:28
  I can understand you not helping us.
• 1:06:30
  You're constrained economically, politically, all of these
• 1:06:34
  different things. I can understand that.
• 1:06:36
  What upsets us is the fact that you are openly, openly working
• 1:06:42
  against us, openly betraying us, openly selling us out.
• 1:06:46
  This is what upsets us. I said we don't need your help.
• 1:06:50
  We don't need any of this. All we ask is stop selling us,
• 1:06:53
  stop cooperating with China. I mean, if you want to engage in
• 1:06:56
  business with China, that's your own thing.
• 1:06:58
  I can't tell you don't engage in business with China.
• 1:07:01
  I have no, you know, way to prevent you from doing that.
• 1:07:06
  But if the Chinese are saying we want you to sell them out, we
• 1:07:09
  want you to sell these people to us, We want you to influence
• 1:07:13
  them, We want you to control their organizations.
• 1:07:15
  We want you to hijack them numerous times.
• 1:07:19
  It's every year, every time we have elections for our
• 1:07:22
  government in exile, it's always Turkey backed individuals, shady
• 1:07:27
  individuals and Turkish NGOs that try to meddle into our
• 1:07:32
  elections, that try, you know, to undermine our, our government
• 1:07:36
  in exile. And, you know, they'll try to,
• 1:07:39
  you know, create their own little, you know, people, you
• 1:07:43
  know, on social, they'll create social media, you know, pages
• 1:07:49
  and social media accounts, you know, attacking our government
• 1:07:52
  in exile or trying to make it appear as if there are multiple
• 1:07:56
  governments in exile. All of this is Turkey.
• 1:07:59
  And it's being done with Chinese intelligence cooperation.
• 1:08:02
  And so This is why we have all these rules.
• 1:08:05
  And This is why we have we ensure that no, no country, host
• 1:08:09
  country can have more than 10 representatives to ensure that
• 1:08:13
  even if those representatives in those host countries are
• 1:08:16
  compromised, they can't over, you know, drastically change our
• 1:08:22
  government's policies and so forth.
• 1:08:25
  So every foreign. Minister, Minister, Mr. Minister
• 1:08:29
  of Foreign Affairs. Now let me ask you a bit about
• 1:08:32
  the American policy. Because you are now established
• 1:08:34
  in the United States of America's capital, You're
• 1:08:37
  recognized you're to all your activities very successfully.
• 1:08:40
  You are the legitimate government of the nation of East
• 1:08:45
  Turkestan in exile. And that's a very big status to
• 1:08:48
  have. It's very good now since in one
• 1:08:52
  year there you have a new government in the United States
• 1:08:54
  of America. How is now this new government
• 1:08:59
  treating you and how do you see 2026?
• 1:09:03
  Will you have more support from the Trump to government or less
• 1:09:06
  support with Marco Rubio now? Is the secretary of Foreign
• 1:09:10
  Affairs a big champion of a tough on China policy and the
• 1:09:14
  champion of the rights of the Uyghurs and somebody we have
• 1:09:18
  great hopes in what you think will be the policy and what is
• 1:09:22
  changing in Washington now to you?
• 1:09:25
  Well, right now, the, the the past year since the Trump
• 1:09:29
  administration has been powered past 11 months, they've, you
• 1:09:36
  know, they've been focused primarily on ending certain
• 1:09:40
  conflicts in the other parts of the world and, you know,
• 1:09:44
  reshaping their economy and then as well as their internal
• 1:09:47
  politics. So they haven't really focused
• 1:09:49
  on us. And again, right now they're not
• 1:09:52
  doing anything to really overtly upset China.
• 1:09:56
  And of course, the most thing that would upset China is our
• 1:09:59
  issue. So the US, This is why they've
• 1:10:02
  been kind of silent on it on it for now.
• 1:10:05
  However, that being said, there are bills in the US Congress
• 1:10:09
  that would, you know, support our plight.
• 1:10:12
  There are, you know, American officials who are calling on,
• 1:10:18
  you know, the US government to, you know, refer to, you know, in
• 1:10:22
  documents, government documents, statements highlighting the fact
• 1:10:25
  that, you know, we're not a part of China, that E Turkestan is
• 1:10:28
  not a part of China. And to reiterate, you know, to
• 1:10:31
  use E Turkestan instead of the Chinese colonial term, Xinjiang.
• 1:10:35
  So there are some progresses and of course I believe in 2026 our
• 1:10:43
  situation, you know, the focus will more be on us and more on
• 1:10:50
  China as well with you know, other issues being slowly
• 1:10:56
  resolved. So I think we'll have more
• 1:10:59
  attention and support in, in the coming year.
• 1:11:04
  This year, they've just been focused primarily on, you know,
• 1:11:07
  trying to re establish the administration's policies and so
• 1:11:12
  forth. But I think there is hope for
• 1:11:15
  us. I already, you know, see it in,
• 1:11:19
  in a, in a, in a, in some ways, in some of the meetings I've
• 1:11:22
  had, you know, there there's things are going to get better.
• 1:11:27
  Dear Minister of Foreign Affairs, what are your five most
• 1:11:30
  important wishes for the United States government in 2026 in
• 1:11:35
  relation to the Excel government and the issue of East Turkestan?
• 1:11:40
  Well, the number one wish is again to recognize E Turkestan
• 1:11:46
  officially as an occupied country and to reaffirm our
• 1:11:51
  right to the recovery of our liberty and independence as
• 1:11:57
  enshrined in the captive Nations law of 1959.
• 1:12:01
  We are also call on the US government to establish a
• 1:12:05
  special coordinator for East Turkistani issues at the US
• 1:12:09
  State Department to ensure, you know, interagency coordination
• 1:12:15
  between the the between on our issue between in the US
• 1:12:19
  government as well coordination with our government in exile and
• 1:12:24
  our our diaspora community. We also, you know, urge the
• 1:12:29
  United States to, you know, treat us, you know, and in in
• 1:12:33
  many ways similar to the way that it has supported Ukraine,
• 1:12:39
  supported Tibet, you know, providing us with political,
• 1:12:43
  economic, financial and other areas of, of support to, you
• 1:12:51
  know, empower our our government in exile on our diaspora, but
• 1:12:56
  also to enable our ability to effectively resist the the
• 1:13:02
  ongoing genocide and colonization, an occupation of
• 1:13:06
  our country. And we also, you know, hope that
• 1:13:09
  the United States will make this a top, you know, one of its top
• 1:13:13
  form policy priorities where it engages with, you know, key
• 1:13:19
  allies, whether that's NATO member states or EU, Japan,
• 1:13:25
  India, others to effectively highlight our issue and hold
• 1:13:31
  China accountable for its crimes at the international at the at
• 1:13:36
  the international stage. But also providing us with, you
• 1:13:40
  know, access to the international FORA to highlight
• 1:13:46
  our plight for decolonization, our right to national self
• 1:13:52
  determination, and the restoration of our sovereignty
• 1:13:55
  and independence. And let me ask you, dear
• 1:13:58
  Minister Foreign Affairs, dear Sally, about the European Union
• 1:14:02
  policy towards E Turkistan. Do you also have a liaison
• 1:14:06
  office in Brussels already on what's your wish from the side
• 1:14:09
  of the European authorities, what they should do in order to
• 1:14:14
  protect human rights in East Turkistan?
• 1:14:17
  And have you been in the European Parliament already
• 1:14:19
  raising your case, making your case for freedom of East
• 1:14:23
  Turkistan? We had such an event in for the
• 1:14:26
  ex Russia movement in 2023. It was very interesting
• 1:14:30
  opportunities for all the Excel governments of ex Russia to be
• 1:14:35
  in the European Parliament and to make their case towards the
• 1:14:38
  European lawmakers that the situation in Russia Today is
• 1:14:42
  very unfair for all the regions, all the minorities and the new
• 1:14:45
  countries might emerge and they need support from the European
• 1:14:50
  policymakers. Did you have such an event
• 1:14:52
  already and do you think it would be good to have more
• 1:14:54
  attention on your plight of your nation from the side of the
• 1:14:58
  European policy makers? Absolutely.
• 1:15:01
  We believe that the EU needs to pay more attention and you know,
• 1:15:06
  to actually support E Turkistan, both for humanitarian reasons as
• 1:15:13
  well as Europe's own strategic sovereignty and economic
• 1:15:21
  economic stability. You know, in terms of its
• 1:15:25
  competition in terms of Chinese encroachment and China
• 1:15:30
  dominating, you know, and trying to squeeze out European firms
• 1:15:35
  from the global market. So from that aspect, the EU
• 1:15:38
  needs to definitely pay more attention to the, the plight of
• 1:15:42
  East Rakistan and to support us actually we, we held our, our,
• 1:15:51
  the first ever E Rakistan Europe Political Action Conference last
• 1:15:58
  last October, no, this past November in Brussels over the
• 1:16:06
  course of two days. We had, along with that, we had
• 1:16:10
  meetings with important committees, including Committee
• 1:16:15
  on Trade, Foreign Affairs, Human Rights at the EU Parliament as
• 1:16:22
  well. We highlighted our case, we
• 1:16:24
  highlighted our struggle. We, you know, reiterated the
• 1:16:29
  fact that you know you, that they probably never heard of
• 1:16:32
  these Trekistan again because of Chinese propaganda.
• 1:16:36
  You know, we highlighted that the root of our issue is Chinese
• 1:16:41
  colonization, occupation. We were a sovereign nation
• 1:16:44
  before and that, you know, it's in Europe's interests and in
• 1:16:49
  Europe's values to, you know, support our people's right to
• 1:16:53
  self determination, justice, and, you know, hold China
• 1:16:58
  accountable, as well as highlighting the issues of
• 1:17:02
  security challenges that our people were facing even in being
• 1:17:07
  in despite being in Europe by Chinese intelligence operatives
• 1:17:13
  and, and, and, and services and agents in in Europe.
• 1:17:17
  So these are things that we highlighted with them, but we
• 1:17:21
  definitely need to, you know, do a large scale, you know, like
• 1:17:27
  event like the case of the the, the nation's post Russia free
• 1:17:33
  nations opposed Russia to where we actually hold like a hearing
• 1:17:38
  or event at the EU Parliament itself to where we explain in
• 1:17:42
  more depth to all the members of the European Parliament.
• 1:17:47
  We hope that. Mr. Minister, the most famous
• 1:17:51
  case in Europe is the Republic of Kosovo, which was able to, in
• 1:17:54
  99, liberated by NATO and joint efforts and then 2008 got
• 1:17:59
  independence and recognized by 120 states of the world already.
• 1:18:04
  Has your Excel government already recognized the Republic
• 1:18:07
  of Kosovo and what do you think about that?
• 1:18:10
  Yes, actually we were one of the first governments to recognize
• 1:18:15
  Kosovo's independence. In fact, we, we saw Kosovo as
• 1:18:21
  role model in, in, in many cases.
• 1:18:24
  In fact, when the conflict was happening in Kosovo, we were
• 1:18:29
  very excited for Kosovo. Back in the 90s.
• 1:18:34
  We thought, you know, we were hoping that, oh, NATO and the
• 1:18:41
  the Western world, you know, despite the fact that, you know,
• 1:18:45
  majority of them are not or non-muslim states, they actually
• 1:18:49
  are, you know, fighting for, you know, helping defend the the
• 1:18:54
  freedom of of a, of a Muslim Muslim nation.
• 1:18:58
  And we thought that, you know, we had hopes that we would be
• 1:19:02
  next. In fact, that's kind of like
• 1:19:05
  when the when NATO bombed the Chinese embassy in in Belgrade
• 1:19:13
  on accident. We are people actually cheered
• 1:19:17
  that in East Turkestan and we were hoping, oh, next is going
• 1:19:21
  to be us. That was our hopes and that was
• 1:19:24
  China's greatest fear as well. And to this day, China fears
• 1:19:29
  nothing more than the the United States, NATO and the European
• 1:19:34
  Union supporting E Turkestan's independence.
• 1:19:37
  Because again, for, as I told you, for strategic reasons,
• 1:19:42
  economic reasons, military reasons, E Turkestan is what is
• 1:19:47
  is like the lifeline of the PRC, the Belton Rd. initiative,
• 1:19:51
  China's multi trillion dollar, you know, infrastructure and you
• 1:19:57
  know, expansion project is runs through E Turkistan.
• 1:20:01
  Without E Turkistan, you know, without control over E
• 1:20:05
  Turkistan, there is no Belt and Rd. initiative.
• 1:20:08
  And China. This is why China in the past,
• 1:20:11
  especially after China launched the Belt and Rd. initiative
• 1:20:15
  immediately next year, China launched its ongoing campaign of
• 1:20:19
  genocide because it views. Our people's existence in East
• 1:20:24
  Turkistan continued existence in East Turkistan as a strategic
• 1:20:30
  threat to its plans for a global domination.
• 1:20:34
  Mr. Minister of Foreign Affairs, can you maybe coming back to
• 1:20:38
  your own personal here history, how did you become Minister of
• 1:20:42
  Foreign Affairs of the Republic of East Turkistan in exile?
• 1:20:46
  What's your way? How did you manage to be that?
• 1:20:52
  Yes. So in 2017 I had founded the
• 1:20:57
  East Turkistan National Awakening Movement, now known as
• 1:21:00
  the National Movement to advocate for the political and
• 1:21:05
  human rights and specifically the independence of the East
• 1:21:08
  Turkistan. What's like minded other rewards
• 1:21:12
  and young E Turkistani Kazaks that grew up in the United
• 1:21:16
  States. We called for global recognition
• 1:21:19
  of China's genocide. We lobbied for the passage of we
• 1:21:24
  introduction and passage of we were policy Act.
• 1:21:27
  Our, my initial, our initial success, especially me being
• 1:21:32
  the, the, the, the at the forefront rally succeeded in
• 1:21:39
  rallying our diaspora, especially the youth, which had
• 1:21:42
  been very idle. In fact, really since 2006, our
• 1:21:49
  independence movement had been, you know, effectively silence.
• 1:21:54
  The only entity that continued to advocate for it was the
• 1:21:59
  government's exile in itself. So my success is in getting, you
• 1:22:06
  know, some motion in the United States, some actions, and even
• 1:22:13
  getting, you know, the American organizations, media to talk
• 1:22:16
  about our issue, you know, kind of like made me famous in our
• 1:22:22
  diaspora. And then in 2019, when the
• 1:22:27
  elections were coming up for the Eastern government in exile,
• 1:22:32
  parliament in exile, our people, Well, the government in exile
• 1:22:37
  initially recommended that I Rep represent that, you know,
• 1:22:41
  approached me and asked me to be their official ambassador to the
• 1:22:46
  United States. And I held that role starting in
• 1:22:52
  April of 2919. And then parliamentary elections
• 1:22:59
  happened in June of 2019 and the, our diaspora recommended
• 1:23:05
  nominated me in the United States, nominated me as a member
• 1:23:09
  of parliament. Then I was even nominated as a
• 1:23:14
  candidate for the Prime Minister position, which I absolutely did
• 1:23:17
  not want to be because I thought it was too much.
• 1:23:22
  And I, I, I was like, I'm just comfortable with continuing
• 1:23:25
  being the, the ambassador or, you know, such a smaller role.
• 1:23:31
  However, because of my successes over the year in getting keep
• 1:23:36
  legislation in getting our issue heard before the American the
• 1:23:42
  the American public institutions government and then my success
• 1:23:46
  in replicating our advocacy model amongst our youth across
• 1:23:51
  our diaspora. This led to this led to me being
• 1:23:57
  nominated as As for the position and initially in November of
• 1:24:02
  2019 at the eighth General Assembly, I was elected as the
• 1:24:07
  Prime Minister of the Turkistan government exile.
• 1:24:10
  Despite my wishes against it. I was one of the three
• 1:24:15
  candidates and then I saw I served as Prime Minister from
• 1:24:20
  2019 till 2023 November. And then in November 2023, I had
• 1:24:26
  repeatedly stated that I don't want to be in this position and
• 1:24:30
  there are other candidates. So I didn't run for candidacy of
• 1:24:33
  the, of, of, of any leadership position.
• 1:24:36
  But the new Prime Minister and the new president felt that, you
• 1:24:40
  know, I, I still needed to help shape our, our government exiles
• 1:24:45
  policy. And so they appointed me as the
• 1:24:48
  Minister of Foreign Affairs and Security at the Ninth General
• 1:24:52
  Assembly in November 2023. And you do an excellent job and
• 1:24:57
  you are really Mr. Minister and ex Prime Minister already.
• 1:25:01
  I'm honoured to speak to you. Tell me one last thing before we
• 1:25:03
  close down. Who is the most famous person
• 1:25:06
  like the Rugova of the East Turkistan, the Nelson Mandela,
• 1:25:11
  the independence hero of your nation who is basically a core
• 1:25:16
  celebrate? Is there some personality in
• 1:25:18
  your history which you can compare to the Gandhi or Nelson
• 1:25:22
  Mandela some or Sakharov in the Russian case, which you have for
• 1:25:27
  the world to know and the name to learn and also to crystallize
• 1:25:33
  the support for East Turkestan independence globally in the
• 1:25:37
  coming years ahead ahead of the independence of your nation?
• 1:25:42
  Well, right now at the current stage living, we don't
• 1:25:47
  historically we had, you know, our our founding, our father of
• 1:25:52
  our national movement, Abdul Abdul Qadir Abdullah
• 1:25:57
  Rustamullah. He was who shaped our national
• 1:26:00
  movement through a education and reform period through the 1880s,
• 1:26:05
  up until he was assassinated in 1920s then.
• 1:26:09
  By the Chinese. Yeah, assassinated by Chinese
• 1:26:13
  agents. Yeah.
• 1:26:15
  And then in 19, our founding father, our first Prime
• 1:26:19
  Minister, Sabatamullah, he's a very, he's someone that our
• 1:26:24
  entire nation knows. He's deeply hated by the
• 1:26:27
  Chinese. He was the one who, you know, he
• 1:26:31
  knew that our independence wouldn't survive very long, but
• 1:26:36
  he wanted to take that opportunity to declare our
• 1:26:40
  independence, to create a functioning state, something
• 1:26:43
  that for next generations would have something to look up as a
• 1:26:47
  role model and a basis to continue our struggle for
• 1:26:51
  independence. So he's, he's very important in
• 1:26:55
  our, in our, in our history. And then our, our version of
• 1:27:01
  like Nelson Mandela would be Abdulhikum Mahsam.
• 1:27:09
  He served 42 years of his life in various prisons, starting
• 1:27:14
  from the warlord prisons to the prisons of the nationalist
• 1:27:18
  regime to the communists, and he was killed.
• 1:27:22
  He was ran over by a train in the 1980s after protesting
• 1:27:27
  against Chinese colonization. He's the he's served over all
• 1:27:32
  his throughout his life. He served 47 years in prison, 42
• 1:27:36
  consecutive. What a terrible destiny, what a
• 1:27:40
  sacrifice for the freedom of his nation.
• 1:27:43
  We honor him and we respect him. And we also say thank you very
• 1:27:46
  much to you, Mr. Foreign Minister in exile, former Prime
• 1:27:50
  Minister in exile, and a very courageous young American hero.
• 1:27:54
  As a soldier who turned politician, who is working for
• 1:27:58
  his nation in the capital of freedom close to Capitol Hill,
• 1:28:02
  you are there to support your future state.
• 1:28:05
  You are the independence of East Turkestan.
• 1:28:07
  We thank you very much that you joined the show and we want to
• 1:28:11
  thank you very much also for the festive season now at the end of
• 1:28:13
  the year and for 2026 to have success and to work for freedom
• 1:28:18
  and that the independence of his Turkestan will be achieved as
• 1:28:22
  soon as possible. X China and X Russia will be.
• 1:28:26
  Thank you very much. And maybe some closing statement
• 1:28:28
  from your side. Thank you again and we hope you
• 1:28:32
  know your listeners will take their time to learn more about E
• 1:28:35
  Turkistan. They can follow me on social
• 1:28:38
  media at Salihudaya or our government at ETXL Gov.
• 1:28:43
  Thanks a lot. All the best and thanks a lot
• 1:28:46
  for joining the Gunter Failing a podcast and for Freedom of East
• 1:28:50
  Turkistan. Thanks, Ali.
• 1:28:51
  Thank you. Good.
• 1:28:54
  I will just close now.