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The Knife: Off Record – 120 · The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
0:21
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Knife Op Record. I'm Patia Eton,
0:25
Speaker 1: I'm Hannah Smith, and this week we're reading listener emails.
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Speaker 1: I'm really excited about this. Thank you to everyone who
0:32
Speaker 1: has emailed us. Send us an email and we might
0:34
Speaker 1: read it on the podcast. We won't use your name
0:37
Speaker 1: unless you tell us that we can. So email us
0:40
Speaker 1: at the Knife at exactly rightmedia dot com. You can
0:44
Speaker 1: email us your thoughts on an episode. You could email
0:46
Speaker 1: us a story that you know of in your own
0:49
Speaker 1: life that you want to tell that might be interesting
0:51
Speaker 1: to talk about in the podcast, or maybe a tip
0:54
Speaker 1: of something we should look into.
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Speaker 2: And we have some great emails today. One of them
0:58
Speaker 2: is about an unsolved disappearance so that took place in Bria, Kentucky.
1:02
Speaker 2: A listener wrote in. We did some additional research on
1:05
Speaker 2: what happened and we'll tell you what we can about it,
1:07
Speaker 2: and that's coming up.
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Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to that one, and then at the
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Speaker 1: end we'll have recommendations as well as I have a
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Speaker 1: request for listeners and that I'll tell you what I
1:18
Speaker 1: mean when we get there, So stick around for that.
1:21
Speaker 1: But let's get into the emails. Yeah, okay, first email,
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Speaker 1: This is a really nice email from a listener about
1:28
Speaker 1: the episode we did on Mountain Park Baptist Boarding Academy.
1:33
Speaker 1: They say hello and thank you for this. I listened
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Speaker 1: to your episode with Meg and Mountain Park this week.
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Speaker 1: The following day, I was chatting with an acquaintance and
1:43
Speaker 1: she mentioned that she was from Miami and after getting
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Speaker 1: into trouble, was sent to a school in the Ozarks.
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Speaker 1: I jokingly said it wasn't Mountain Park, was it. Her
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Speaker 1: face went pale and she said, how did you know that?
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Speaker 1: After much discussion and Google searching, she is indeed survivor
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Speaker 1: of this place. We got her connected through the Mountain
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Speaker 1: Park Survivor's website, and I shared Meg's story on your
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Speaker 1: podcast to listen to. She shared with me that anytime
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Speaker 1: she had told this experience to someone, she always feels
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Speaker 1: that they don't actually believe her. I was so grateful
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Speaker 1: to genuinely look her in the eye and say I
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Speaker 1: believe you. Thank you for covering Meg's chilling truth and
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Speaker 1: allowing me to connect with someone in my life with
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Speaker 1: the way of healing that she didn't even know existed.
2:27
Speaker 1: Keep up the great work. This email was so nice
2:31
Speaker 1: to receive and really like kind of made me tear
2:35
Speaker 1: up when I read it. We kind of debated if
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Speaker 1: we should include it or not because it does feel
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Speaker 1: like is this too self congratulatory, But the reason we
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Speaker 1: decided to share it is because it really speaks to
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Speaker 1: the importance of people sharing their stories and what we
2:51
Speaker 1: love about what we do. And this feels so good
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Speaker 1: to know that, you know, Meg was able to share
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Speaker 1: her story and then it connected with someone else. Is
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Speaker 1: the power of storytelling and true crime and to be
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Speaker 1: able to be part of that is really meaningful. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I mean, working in true crime and telling crime related stories,
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Speaker 2: you want to feel like you know you're doing some
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Speaker 2: good because in that story, someone was negatively impacted by
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Speaker 2: what happened, and if anything positive can come from it,
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Speaker 2: then we're all about it.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So thanks so much for reaching out.
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Speaker 2: And we're going to move on to the next listener email. Hi, ladies,
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Speaker 2: I was the victim of a rental scam in November
3:31
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. It started when my husband and I
3:34
Speaker 2: were looking to rent a house in a town called
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Speaker 2: Santa Clarita, California. It's a suburb north of Los Angeles.
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Speaker 2: Most people know it as the town where Magic Mountain
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Speaker 2: is located. We have a child and we were looking
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Speaker 2: to rent a house. We were renting a condo at
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Speaker 2: the time. When looking, we found a listing on Redfinn
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Speaker 2: which I expressed interest in. Shortly afterwards, I received a
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Speaker 2: text from someone named Jason Hammond's and he said that
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Speaker 2: he was the owner of this property but the lease
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Speaker 2: was signed, but he said he did have other properties
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Speaker 2: available and sent us a listing for another one.
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Speaker 1: So she reached out to the person listing the condo
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Speaker 1: and he said, this is booked or like someone else
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Speaker 1: has already leased it, but I have a different property. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: and that doesn't feel that strange, No, I said, that
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Speaker 1: feels like I've had that same experience. Yeah, It's like
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Speaker 1: you see a well qualified tenant and you're like, well,
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Speaker 1: I have a whole business when and I see if
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Speaker 1: I can keep them somewhere. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So the next day he provided us with the code
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Speaker 2: to enter the home. I was on the phone with
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Speaker 2: him the whole time, well seeing the home. So she's
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Speaker 2: at the house in person. So she says, we entered
4:35
Speaker 2: the home, did the tour and left. Shortly afterwards, he
4:38
Speaker 2: sent us an application. We were approved. He sent us
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Speaker 2: a lease after sending several thousand dollars via Zell, he
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Speaker 2: told me one of the transactions did not go through.
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Speaker 2: I went back and forth with him and Zell regarding
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Speaker 2: this transaction for a month until he finally sent me
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Speaker 2: a check to deposit as a quote refund for that transaction.
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Speaker 1: Wow, that's so scary. When are you trying to move
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Speaker 1: into this place? They now had a nightmare.
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Speaker 2: Also, just like Zelle can't get it together. They're a
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Speaker 2: big company that doesn't feel right either.
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Speaker 1: Ye, like, what's going on?
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Speaker 2: I'm sure that was just like already stress levels are rising.
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Speaker 2: She says it makes no sense. I know, but I
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Speaker 2: deposited this check and sent him more money. So he
5:20
Speaker 2: sends her a check for a quote refund. She deposits it.
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Speaker 2: Then she says, I got a call from my bank
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Speaker 2: that the check had bounced. After calling Jason and yelling
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Speaker 2: at him and telling him he's a scam artist, he
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Speaker 2: said he can only cancel the lease and give me
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Speaker 2: my money back if I send him five hundred dollars.
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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
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Speaker 3: I know.
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Speaker 2: At that point, I stopped talking to him. He took
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Speaker 2: a total of twelve thousand dollars from me, which was
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Speaker 2: basically my entire savings.
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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's like so horrible and heartbreaking.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and honestly it was I've rented for so many
5:55
Speaker 2: years and yeah, I mean you see in that online
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Speaker 2: you go in, you fill out all your information, social security,
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Speaker 2: it's so much information. Yeah, and it's just a piece
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Speaker 2: of paper you're handing to someone you've.
6:09
Speaker 1: Never met totally, and you know this is a suburb
6:13
Speaker 1: of La and so it's also like for context, I
6:18
Speaker 1: think it's different in different places, right, but trying to
6:21
Speaker 1: find somewhere to live in La, I'm not talking about
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Speaker 1: buying a house. I'm talking about renting an apartment. It
6:27
Speaker 1: is such a horrible experience. It is so difficult. Like
6:31
Speaker 1: I remember going and like showing up to listings and
6:35
Speaker 1: it's like I'm getting there right when the open house starts.
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Speaker 1: There is a line of people down the block and
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Speaker 1: everyone already has like a printed statement of why they
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Speaker 1: would be a good tenant and they're smoothing with the landlord.
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Speaker 1: It is so competitive.
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Speaker 2: There's regularly bidding wars. I have a friend who just
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Speaker 2: rented a house that seventeen other people showed up the
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Speaker 2: same open house that she did, and they had to
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Speaker 2: pay two years rent upfront to get that house.
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Speaker 3: That's nuts. It's nuts.
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Speaker 2: So she goes on to say, most of my family
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Speaker 2: and friends don't even know that this happened to me.
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Speaker 2: I'm very ashamed, but I also feel like this kind
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Speaker 2: of scam needs to be known to the general public.
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Speaker 2: I tried to message my local Instagram and Facebook accounts
7:17
Speaker 2: with no luck. Filed a police report, but honestly, I
7:19
Speaker 2: don't know what they're doing because I'm afraid to even call.
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Speaker 3: It.
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Speaker 2: Took a lot for me to even get to the
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Speaker 2: point where I could file a report because I'm so
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Speaker 2: incredibly embarrassed. I have really next to know actual information
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Speaker 2: about Jason. We don't know that that's his real name,
7:33
Speaker 2: and I highly doubt that that's his real name. I've
7:36
Speaker 2: been working as an earners for the last six years,
7:38
Speaker 2: worked a lot of overtime during COVID to save that money,
7:41
Speaker 2: and some of it was gifted to me by my parents.
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Speaker 2: Money had been saving for the day we could finally
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Speaker 2: afford to buy a home, and this stranger took it
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Speaker 2: from me simply because I could not fathom that something
7:51
Speaker 2: like this could be a scam. What bothers me the
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Speaker 2: most is that I had the bad feeling about it
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Speaker 2: the whole time, even since we applied, but I ignored it.
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Speaker 2: Now we are settled in a new place with a
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Speaker 2: great and real landlord, but I've been working overtime to
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Speaker 2: save up again, taking time away from my fifteen month
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Speaker 2: old and my husband. I don't think I will ever
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Speaker 2: not be mad at myself for this. I mean, that's heartbreaking,
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Speaker 2: but like I don't think that many people would have
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Speaker 2: been able to like sniff that out.
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Speaker 3: That's pretty normal.
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Speaker 2: Like you go in, you find a landlord that you
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Speaker 2: like working with, you find a property, you send money
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Speaker 2: via Zelle. I mean that seems so standard. It's like,
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Speaker 2: I wonder how many people he's been able to do
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Speaker 2: this too, because no one wants to talk about it.
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Speaker 1: Probably so many people. There's a lot of rental scams.
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Speaker 1: And also it's that feeling of oh my gosh, I
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Speaker 1: found something, I found a place I love, it's a
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Speaker 1: good deal, and then that feeling of like I need
8:46
Speaker 1: to jump on this quickly because if I don't like
8:50
Speaker 1: it will go to someone else, and that's also like
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Speaker 1: actually a reality, yeah, is that it will like even
8:56
Speaker 1: when they're real, it's like you kind of have to
8:58
Speaker 1: move really quickly, and so that situation is ripe for scams.
9:03
Speaker 1: I was looking up things though, like what can you do,
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Speaker 1: and one of the things that is recommended is always
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Speaker 1: meet the person that's renting to you in person. And
9:13
Speaker 1: so in this email, she talks about like being given
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Speaker 1: the code to the house, which feels so legitimate, but
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Speaker 1: also the scammer could have found a different listing and
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Speaker 1: pretended to be like a prospective tenant, gotten that code,
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Speaker 1: and then just like pretended like he was the landlord. Right, Yeah,
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Speaker 1: So always like try to meet someone in person was
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Speaker 1: the recommended first sort of way to make sure that
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Speaker 1: this is real, This is a real person, they really
9:43
Speaker 1: like they have the keys to the house, you know.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, But you know, I rented a house a couple
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Speaker 2: of years ago and I never met the landlord in
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Speaker 2: person hm, and we ended up moving from there after
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Speaker 2: maybe less time than we thought we would, But it
9:56
Speaker 2: was a perfectly real situation. It was his house and
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Speaker 2: he just didn't live locally, and we met him over
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Speaker 2: zoom and we were let in remotely, and you know
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Speaker 2: that was a real listing. So I don't think that
10:08
Speaker 2: she should feel shame or embarrassing, and I think that
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Speaker 2: could happen to anyone, but it's good to know there's
10:13
Speaker 2: a few little safeguards you can put up.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So one other thing you can do is
10:20
Speaker 1: you can ask for identification from your landlord. And you
10:23
Speaker 1: can also just like do a quick Google search. You know,
10:25
Speaker 1: are they part of a rental group? Just verify what
10:29
Speaker 1: you can about them, which is at least one step
10:32
Speaker 1: that you could take, I suppose in this very difficult
10:36
Speaker 1: situation of trying to rench an apartment. Next, we have
10:47
Speaker 1: an email from a woman named Ava, who gave us
10:50
Speaker 1: permission to use her name. She reached out to us
10:53
Speaker 1: in May, and this is what she said in her email.
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Speaker 1: My name is Ava. I love your show and I
10:59
Speaker 1: wanted to write in with a story of mine you
11:01
Speaker 1: may be interested in. At the age of fifteen, I
11:05
Speaker 1: met an online friend through a public Minecraft server. He
11:09
Speaker 1: was eighteen at the time, and we became very close
11:12
Speaker 1: friends very quickly. After a few months, he convinced me
11:15
Speaker 1: that we should in quote date, even though he lived
11:18
Speaker 1: in North Carolina and I lived in California. I reluctantly
11:21
Speaker 1: agreed and we started dating. I was under the impression
11:25
Speaker 1: that he would come and visit me in person soon
11:27
Speaker 1: and our online relationship would only be temporary. Only about
11:31
Speaker 1: a week after we started dating, he backed out of
11:34
Speaker 1: going into the military last minute and moved out of
11:37
Speaker 1: his dad's house to live with his mom and half siblings.
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Speaker 1: It was a very unstable home. His mom was using
11:44
Speaker 1: drugs and had different men in the house. There were
11:48
Speaker 1: sometimes incidents with gun violence too. Wow, So he immediately
11:53
Speaker 1: is going into this very volatile situation and makes a
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Speaker 1: huge life decision not to join the military, which was
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Speaker 1: his plan, I guess.
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Speaker 2: And wants to online date a girl who's fifteen.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. He started smoking weed at an unhealthy rate and
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Speaker 1: picking fights with me. These fights would start from the
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Speaker 1: smallest thing I would say or do and would last
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Speaker 1: for hours. He spammed my phone with multiple paragraphs until
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Speaker 1: I was apologizing relentlessly for something I didn't even understand
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Speaker 1: that I did wrong.
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Speaker 2: Okay, that reminds me of a time when I had
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Speaker 2: a friend in a situation where she had caught her
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Speaker 2: boyfriend doing something really bad and she had written him
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Speaker 2: a text about it, or he had written her a
12:35
Speaker 2: text about it. And it was back in the day
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Speaker 2: where if you texted someone enough their phone would delete
12:40
Speaker 2: prior messages, and he just started spamming her phone over
12:44
Speaker 2: and over and over. It's like, you know, like consume
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Speaker 2: someone totally, like a form of control.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. It reminds me of the book we both read,
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Speaker 1: There Is No Ethan Too, where it was a form
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Speaker 1: of abuse and control, where this online boyfriend was just
13:03
Speaker 1: relentlessly emailing and requiring constant time and attention, especially when
13:10
Speaker 1: Ethan knew that Anna was going to be like at
13:13
Speaker 1: work or at a social event, it would increase. So
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Speaker 1: it was really felt like this like intentional controlling thing. Yeah,
13:19
Speaker 1: and they like she had always done something wrong. Yes,
13:23
Speaker 1: I was always like, oh my gosh, you've disappointed me
13:25
Speaker 1: or hurt me, and now I need to take up
13:26
Speaker 1: a lot of your emotional energy right now. Yeah, okay.
13:30
Speaker 1: So Eva goes on to say this happened over a
13:34
Speaker 1: longer period of time, slowly getting worse and worse. I
13:37
Speaker 1: started isolating myself from friends and family. I was always
13:41
Speaker 1: up in my room talking to him on the phone,
13:43
Speaker 1: trying to keep him happy. I started walking on eggshells
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Speaker 1: around him, careful of my tone of voice and the
13:49
Speaker 1: things I would say. He would always find something to
13:53
Speaker 1: start hours long fights over. During these arguments, he would
13:58
Speaker 1: self harm and send me pictures of his injuries. Yikes.
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Speaker 2: It's so manipulative. Yeah, really and unhealthy. I mean, if
14:08
Speaker 2: someone's really doing that, it's like they need professional help. Also,
14:14
Speaker 2: the idea that she's walking on eggshells around you know,
14:19
Speaker 2: someone who the entirety of the relationship is happening online
14:23
Speaker 2: on the phone, but that's real now, you know, your
14:28
Speaker 2: phone can ring and your stomach can drop because that's
14:30
Speaker 2: how relationships are forming.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, this makes me so sad for her, especially
14:36
Speaker 1: being fifteen. It's just like, you're so young, and it's
14:40
Speaker 1: sad that she's like spending all this time and feeling
14:43
Speaker 1: this burden over someone who, like, yeah, clearly needs help himself,
14:48
Speaker 1: but it's not her responsibility. But it's so easy to
14:51
Speaker 1: not understand that when you start getting, you know, emotionally
14:55
Speaker 1: involved with someone and there's that manipulation factor happening.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely.
15:00
Speaker 1: Then she says, he made me think it was my
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Speaker 1: fault or it could have been avoided if I'd done
15:05
Speaker 1: something different, So you know that's horrible. It became one
15:08
Speaker 1: hundred percent my responsibility to keep him in a good mood.
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Speaker 1: He demanded hours of my time. He started to control
15:14
Speaker 1: every aspect of my life. I was allowed no privacy,
15:17
Speaker 1: no boundaries. He always knew where I was, and he
15:20
Speaker 1: would get upset if I weren't on a call every
15:23
Speaker 1: second of every day. Pretty much we would be on
15:25
Speaker 1: the phone for upwards of sixteen hours at a time,
15:30
Speaker 1: and he frequently would use his self harm to control her,
15:33
Speaker 1: and like threatened to go to even more extreme lengths,
15:36
Speaker 1: like to die by suicide.
15:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean sixteen hours of a person's day to
15:42
Speaker 2: be spent on the phone. It's like I think anyone
15:46
Speaker 2: would have a hard time then deciphering, well, what is
15:49
Speaker 2: my real life that I'm actually living? Is that this
15:52
Speaker 2: person I'm on the phone with because it's taking up
15:54
Speaker 2: so much of my time or is it outside of that?
15:58
Speaker 2: At age fifteen sixteen, I wouldn't have known the difference.
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Speaker 1: No, And I just remember, like when I was that age,
16:04
Speaker 1: my emotions were so intense and like strong and so
16:10
Speaker 1: that too, I can only imagine would like make this
16:13
Speaker 1: situation even harder, Like I can imagine she would just
16:16
Speaker 1: feel trapped, Like I think I would feel trapped if
16:19
Speaker 1: I were in that scenario.
16:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you probably don't have a lot of other
16:22
Speaker 2: relationship experience to draw from, so what are you comparing
16:25
Speaker 2: it to.
16:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this happened when she was like sixteen and nineteen.
16:31
Speaker 1: They never met in person, which is interesting. Obviously they
16:35
Speaker 1: lived like on different sides of the country. But yeah,
16:39
Speaker 1: it's like online relationship, very real, like they never met
16:42
Speaker 1: in person, but affected her life so deeply. She said,
16:46
Speaker 1: my mindset during this time was just based on survival.
16:49
Speaker 1: In my mind, I had no choice to leave because
16:52
Speaker 1: then it would have been my fault if he did
16:54
Speaker 1: something harmful to himself. After a few years of this,
16:58
Speaker 1: he moved back to his dad's house, and there was
16:59
Speaker 1: a note shift in his mental state. There were fewer arguments.
17:03
Speaker 1: I was able to leave him shortly after this time,
17:06
Speaker 1: although he still tried to control how much time and
17:09
Speaker 1: details about my life that I provided him. I had
17:13
Speaker 1: no one to help me and was utterly alone in
17:16
Speaker 1: this at such a young age. These years deeply affected
17:19
Speaker 1: my life and still do. Unfortunately, my parents were not
17:22
Speaker 1: able to help me during this time because they didn't
17:24
Speaker 1: know the warning signs that someone might be getting abused.
17:28
Speaker 1: I'm writing this in because abusive relationships come in so
17:31
Speaker 1: many forms, and I would like to spread awareness about it,
17:35
Speaker 1: hopefully prevent someone else from experiencing what I did.
17:38
Speaker 3: Wow.
17:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'm happy, she wrote us. I want
17:42
Speaker 2: to talk about the dangers. We have talked a little
17:46
Speaker 2: bit about the dangers of online dating, but you know,
17:50
Speaker 2: it's become the norm. And I think that obviously, as
17:54
Speaker 2: an adult, you download a dating app, you go on dates,
17:57
Speaker 2: but kids are online playing games where they can interact
18:00
Speaker 2: with people. I mean when I was a child and
18:03
Speaker 2: you could like log into your one computer in the
18:06
Speaker 2: house and get on like AOL or whatever.
18:08
Speaker 1: It was the computer room. The computer room. Oh my gosh,
18:11
Speaker 1: I'll throw back. I play this game called horseland oh
18:15
Speaker 1: my gosh, of course you didn't we sighted, I know.
18:18
Speaker 1: And there was like a chat room where you would
18:20
Speaker 1: like go in and try to sell your like virtual horse,
18:24
Speaker 1: and there would be like I remember seeing kind of
18:29
Speaker 1: creep messages in that chat room and just thinking.
18:32
Speaker 3: Well, that's weird.
18:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, like not really totally understanding what's going on. Yeah,
18:37
Speaker 1: no clue what was going on that There were like
18:40
Speaker 1: creepy people in what is it Horseworld, horseland Horselands.
18:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would just drop these like weird things in
18:48
Speaker 2: the chat room and I'd be like, excuse me, Maybe
18:50
Speaker 2: they don't know where they are, but they knew exactly
18:53
Speaker 2: where they were. And you know, now, kids are way
18:55
Speaker 2: more tech savvy than I was at that age. Also,
18:58
Speaker 2: they're not in a computer room where I remember the
19:01
Speaker 2: computer screen faced the entire room, so it would have
19:05
Speaker 2: been very easy for my parents to come in and
19:08
Speaker 2: monitor anything that was going on.
19:10
Speaker 3: Yeah.
19:10
Speaker 2: I mean it's a very real risk and form of
19:14
Speaker 2: abuse meeting someone online and being taken advantage of.
19:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I feel like a little bit disconnected
19:20
Speaker 1: from what teens are doing now, to be honest, that's
19:24
Speaker 1: just what I read about. I think probably they're much
19:27
Speaker 1: more hopefully suspicious and also understanding of the Internet than
19:31
Speaker 1: we were at that time. Yeah. The idea that you
19:34
Speaker 1: can get roped into something and abused over the Internet
19:38
Speaker 1: is so real and something that should be acknowledged.
19:42
Speaker 3: Yeah.
19:48
Speaker 1: We did follow up with Ava and she sent us
19:51
Speaker 1: a little more information. She said that when she was sixteen,
19:55
Speaker 1: she tried to convince her parents to let her fly
19:59
Speaker 1: to see her online boyfriend, and they said no. They
20:02
Speaker 1: were like, this is an older guy, and we don't
20:06
Speaker 1: want you to fly out of state to meet someone
20:08
Speaker 1: who we don't know, we haven't met, She says. When
20:11
Speaker 1: I was eighteen, I tried to tell my parents again
20:13
Speaker 1: that I wanted to fly out to see him, and
20:15
Speaker 1: they firmly told me no again. I tried to play
20:19
Speaker 1: the legal adult card. I did not end up flying
20:22
Speaker 1: out without their permission because I knew it would cause
20:25
Speaker 1: a lot of problems between us. It became clear after
20:28
Speaker 1: a while that John was perfectly content with our relationship
20:32
Speaker 1: being one hundred percent online, and he did not have
20:35
Speaker 1: any plans to come see me in person. In hindsight,
20:38
Speaker 1: my parents made the right call and potentially saved me
20:41
Speaker 1: from a relationship which could become even more abusive and controlling.
20:45
Speaker 1: Who knows how much worse things could have become if
20:47
Speaker 1: I had visited him in person.
20:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, truly, I mean, I'm speculating, but it feels like
20:53
Speaker 2: the danger of an online relationship, especially as a child
20:57
Speaker 2: a teenager, is when no one, like a parent, even
21:02
Speaker 2: knows about it. Because sometimes that's the case. It's like,
21:04
Speaker 2: she clearly at some point shared with her parents that
21:07
Speaker 2: she had built this relationship with someone online. My dad
21:10
Speaker 2: would have said the exact same thing. My mom would
21:12
Speaker 2: have said the exact same thing, like, no freakin way, it's.
21:16
Speaker 3: A real danger.
21:17
Speaker 2: There was a case, probably a lot of people have
21:20
Speaker 2: heard of it, the disappearance of a teenage girl from Glendale, Arizona,
21:25
Speaker 2: back in twenty nineteen. Her name's Alicia Navarro. She was
21:29
Speaker 2: believed to have met someone online who lured her away,
21:32
Speaker 2: and she left her home in the middle of the night.
21:35
Speaker 2: She left a note that said I ran away, I
21:38
Speaker 2: will be back. I swear I'm sorry, and she was
21:42
Speaker 2: not found until she turned eighteen, when she walked into
21:46
Speaker 2: a small town police station in Montana and said she
21:50
Speaker 2: wanted to be taken off the missing person's list because
21:52
Speaker 2: now she was eighteen, Was.
21:54
Speaker 1: She still with the person that she had left to
21:57
Speaker 1: go meet.
21:57
Speaker 2: So they've never said, but the person saying that she
22:00
Speaker 2: was living with at the time, he's never been publicly
22:04
Speaker 2: connected to her actual disappearance or charged with any crimes
22:10
Speaker 2: in relation to that disappearance. So what happened is when
22:14
Speaker 2: she said, Hey, I want to be taken off the
22:15
Speaker 2: missing person's list.
22:16
Speaker 3: This is my name.
22:17
Speaker 2: Of course, that triggered that police department to contact the
22:21
Speaker 2: police department locally where she had been living when she disappeared,
22:25
Speaker 2: so they connected her back to her family, and so
22:29
Speaker 2: they started a line of communication.
22:31
Speaker 3: And then a few.
22:33
Speaker 2: Months I think went by, because I was like checking
22:36
Speaker 2: in on it a lot, and there were no arrests
22:39
Speaker 2: made with her disappearance. And then the apartment she had
22:42
Speaker 2: been living in with an older man was raided and
22:45
Speaker 2: there's a surge worr, and he tried to get rid
22:47
Speaker 2: of his phone really quickly and all of that. So
22:49
Speaker 2: she eventually returned home to her family and he was arrested,
22:55
Speaker 2: charged and convicted of possession of child sex abuse material,
23:00
Speaker 2: a crime related to possession of that I don't recall
23:03
Speaker 2: the exact crime, but the images were not of her
23:06
Speaker 2: and she had absolutely no ties to that court case,
23:09
Speaker 2: but it is the person that she had been living with,
23:12
Speaker 2: and he was sentenced to one hundred years.
23:14
Speaker 3: Wow.
23:15
Speaker 1: How old was she when she left?
23:19
Speaker 3: Fourteen?
23:20
Speaker 1: Oh my god?
23:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then she was eighteen when she walked into
23:23
Speaker 2: that police station.
23:25
Speaker 1: Wow.
23:26
Speaker 3: Yeah.
23:26
Speaker 2: And her mom had this Facebook page where she would
23:29
Speaker 2: plead for people to send in any leads and there
23:33
Speaker 2: was a private investigator working on the case. I mean,
23:35
Speaker 2: she was not found, and I don't know that she
23:37
Speaker 2: would have been if she hadn't walked into that police station.
23:40
Speaker 2: It's incredibly scary and what they think happened if she
23:43
Speaker 2: met someone online on an online game. But yeah, luckily
23:49
Speaker 2: she was found alive and has been reconnected with her family.
23:53
Speaker 2: I think that's the danger, right is you don't even
23:55
Speaker 2: know who your kids are connecting with online most of
23:58
Speaker 2: the time. So I think there's like all kinds of
24:01
Speaker 2: parental controls in place now, but it terrifies me.
24:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean kids and also adults though too. I
24:08
Speaker 1: think it happens too.
24:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean elderly people are at risk of this
24:14
Speaker 2: in different ways. We all are, but like maybe someone
24:17
Speaker 2: who's not as savvy about the bad things that happen
24:20
Speaker 2: online is particularly vulnerable. And you know, there's an actual
24:25
Speaker 2: term for this, digital abuse or digital dating abuse.
24:29
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, where the coercion or control takes place entirely online.
24:34
Speaker 1: I'm so glad there's a term for it now that
24:36
Speaker 1: makes sense. So I'm trying to remember who told this
24:40
Speaker 1: to me, but I remember there was like a point
24:44
Speaker 1: in my life when I realized I had this like revelation.
24:48
Speaker 1: It was probably like already in my thirties, someone had
24:51
Speaker 1: said something to me where they were like, you know,
24:53
Speaker 1: when you're in an interaction or relationship, pay attention to
24:57
Speaker 1: how you're feeling, because that is like one of the
25:01
Speaker 1: biggest things that you should pay attention to instead of like,
25:05
Speaker 1: am I just getting so focused on the chaos that
25:08
Speaker 1: this other person is creating and it's making me feel
25:11
Speaker 1: anxious to try to like help them. But then when
25:15
Speaker 1: I sit back, it's like, well, is that really how
25:17
Speaker 1: I want to feel in a relationship? Is like constantly
25:19
Speaker 1: anxious about someone else's chaos. It's not a good feeling.
25:23
Speaker 2: It's so unhealthy, And I mean, it's so true. And
25:25
Speaker 2: I think a lot about like moments where maybe in
25:29
Speaker 2: my past relationships, things I like, I don't want to
25:33
Speaker 2: keep sharing these things with my friends because now I
25:36
Speaker 2: know that it's probably past time to leave. And that
25:41
Speaker 2: was always a big sign for me internally, when you
25:44
Speaker 2: don't want to tell your friends what's going on, right,
25:47
Speaker 2: Because it's different than like, oh, my husband refrigerated the
25:51
Speaker 2: peanut butter. It's like, yeah, you know, once you're retelling
25:55
Speaker 2: sort of the same kind of story over and over again.
25:58
Speaker 2: It's like, huh, this is not a one off. This
26:01
Speaker 2: is not a problem I just need to solve. This
26:03
Speaker 2: is their issue to be dealing with. And I also
26:06
Speaker 2: think my dad gave me great advice as a teenager
26:09
Speaker 2: which stuck with me, which is it only takes one
26:12
Speaker 2: person to break up, like you don't need their permission
26:16
Speaker 2: to break up with them.
26:17
Speaker 1: That is such good advice. Thanks Dad, Thanks Dad. Yeah.
26:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, he also told me to never pluck my eyebrows.
26:23
Speaker 3: I didn't listen. I did not listen.
26:25
Speaker 1: That's like someone told me that. I'm suretty sure my
26:29
Speaker 1: mom did, and I was like, are you gonna do
26:31
Speaker 1: what I want? It's the nineties. Yeah, it's really good advice.
26:35
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for writing in Ava, and we're
26:37
Speaker 1: really happy that you were able to get out of
26:39
Speaker 1: this relationship.
26:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, truly so.
26:43
Speaker 2: Our next listener email came from a person who has
26:45
Speaker 2: done their own deep dive into a missing person's case
26:48
Speaker 2: in their hometown of Bria, Kentucky. This is the disappearance
26:52
Speaker 2: of Brooklyn Farthing.
26:54
Speaker 1: I read the last email, but maybe I'll read this
26:56
Speaker 1: one as well because it's a short email. And then
27:00
Speaker 1: that you have done a bunch of research about the case,
27:03
Speaker 1: and so I'm excited to hear what you found. Yet
27:05
Speaker 1: I'll set it up with this email. This listener wrote,
27:09
Speaker 1: my hometown has a still unsolved mystery disappearance that I
27:13
Speaker 1: think you all could cover really well. It has it
27:16
Speaker 1: all arson the hollers of rural Kentucky and a potential
27:20
Speaker 1: connection to a child pornography ring. You may already be
27:24
Speaker 1: familiar with the name Brooklyn Farthinge. She disappeared from Beria, Kentucky,
27:28
Speaker 1: on June twenty second, twenty thirteen, after attending a party
27:32
Speaker 1: with friends in a neighboring county. There are a couple
27:35
Speaker 1: of decent sources available on this case, and I'm willing
27:38
Speaker 1: to bet there are people who want to talk about it.
27:40
Speaker 1: I have a couple of my own theories, but i'll
27:42
Speaker 1: spare you. I'd be interested to see what conclusions, if any,
27:46
Speaker 1: you are able to draw from the case.
27:49
Speaker 3: Yeah.
27:49
Speaker 2: So, actually wish this listener was here because I have
27:53
Speaker 2: some questions about their theories. But let me just start
27:56
Speaker 2: off with a little bit of information about Brooklyn and
28:00
Speaker 2: who she is. So her sister page described Brooklyn on
28:04
Speaker 2: I quoted this from their website. My sister Brooke was
28:07
Speaker 2: a spunky, tell you how it is, lovable person. She
28:10
Speaker 2: loved animals and the outdoors, but she was truly a
28:13
Speaker 2: girly girl who loved pink and camouflage. She would do
28:17
Speaker 2: anything to help anyone. She had the sweetest, deep, blong
28:20
Speaker 2: country sounding voice you can only find in Kentucky. In
28:24
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, Brooklyn was eighteen years old. She had recently
28:27
Speaker 2: graduated from Madison Southern High School. There was nothing out
28:31
Speaker 2: of the ordinary going on for Brooklyn prior to her disappearance,
28:35
Speaker 2: and on June twenty first, twenty thirteen, the day started
28:38
Speaker 2: out like any other, except that on this day she
28:41
Speaker 2: and her sister Page were going to take their drivers
28:44
Speaker 2: test for their licenses.
28:46
Speaker 1: And are they twins? Are they both?
28:48
Speaker 2: They're just sisters and they happen to be taking it
28:51
Speaker 2: at the same time. And I think Brooke is the
28:53
Speaker 2: older sister of the two, and brook passed. Page did not,
28:57
Speaker 2: so little rivalry there, but mostly the two of them
29:02
Speaker 2: were focused on celebrating their grandfather's birthday later that evening,
29:07
Speaker 2: so they met at their Granny Bonnie's house to celebrate
29:12
Speaker 2: their Papa Kenny, and afterwards they had planned to go
29:16
Speaker 2: to a party out on Red Lick Road. So after
29:20
Speaker 2: the party everything's fine and normal. They celebrate with family. Brooklyn,
29:25
Speaker 2: Page and their cousin all drive out to the party together.
29:28
Speaker 2: The plan is so Brooklyn has an overnight bag packed
29:32
Speaker 2: and she's going to meet another friend at this party
29:34
Speaker 2: and spend the night with her. So she has a
29:36
Speaker 2: ride home and she has a place to stay that night,
29:39
Speaker 2: all set up for her beforehand, which I think is
29:42
Speaker 2: so smart if you're driving out of town and there's
29:44
Speaker 2: going to be people you don't know somewhere. So shortly
29:48
Speaker 2: after arriving, Page and their cousin actually head back. They
29:52
Speaker 2: don't stay at the party, but Brooklyn stays because she
29:54
Speaker 2: has this friend there that is said that she can
29:56
Speaker 2: stay the night with her and get her right home. Unfortunately,
30:01
Speaker 2: what ends up happening is this friend that Brooklyn made
30:04
Speaker 2: plans with bails. She decides she wants to stay overnight
30:07
Speaker 2: with her boyfriend. Oh wow, so she leaves Brooklyn at
30:09
Speaker 2: this party. Brooklyn then she recognizes a few faces, but
30:14
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to be like close friends of her there
30:16
Speaker 2: any longer. But she's having a good time and so
30:19
Speaker 2: she stays at the party and she recognizes a male
30:23
Speaker 2: classmate of hers is there, former classmate from Madison Southern
30:26
Speaker 2: High and he is quite drunk, and so she's like,
30:30
Speaker 2: not only do I need to find or ride home,
30:32
Speaker 2: but I need to find him or ride home. She
30:35
Speaker 2: had actually been in a long term relationship that they
30:38
Speaker 2: had been engaged and then had just broken up, And
30:41
Speaker 2: so she recognizes a friend of her former fiance at
30:46
Speaker 2: this party. She doesn't know him well, but she does
30:50
Speaker 2: know him enough to feel somewhat comfortable, and she sees
30:53
Speaker 2: he has this truck there, So she's like, can you
30:56
Speaker 2: take me and this person that she went to high
30:59
Speaker 2: school with home when the party's over because he can't
31:02
Speaker 2: drive he's so drunk.
31:03
Speaker 3: And my ride left.
31:05
Speaker 1: And this is twenty thirteen, which, like I think uber
31:09
Speaker 1: was maybe like first a thing, but probably just in cities. Yeah,
31:13
Speaker 1: I dot it was out in Kentucky. I mean also
31:15
Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, I still remember like taking cabs even
31:18
Speaker 1: in La Yeah, so it was like still a thing
31:21
Speaker 1: where how do I get home late at night?
31:23
Speaker 2: Totally, And I mean in small towns it's still could
31:26
Speaker 2: take a while to get an uber sometimes. Plus you know,
31:29
Speaker 2: she had been with her fiance for years, so to
31:32
Speaker 2: know even though they had then broken up, you know,
31:35
Speaker 2: this is a person she loved and trusted and this
31:37
Speaker 2: is a friend of that person.
31:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he agrees.
31:41
Speaker 2: To give them a ride and they do drop off
31:44
Speaker 2: Brokes classmate, who was very drunk at his house, but
31:48
Speaker 2: then instead of taking Brooklyn home, he takes her to
31:51
Speaker 2: his house. And you know, there's not a lot known
31:55
Speaker 2: about what he told her about that decision being made,
31:58
Speaker 2: but she's uncomfortable. But at this point, she's with this
32:02
Speaker 2: man and he's taking her to his.
32:05
Speaker 1: House, and how do you know that that decision happened
32:08
Speaker 1: or that she was uncomfortable? Right?
32:10
Speaker 2: So Brooklyn had her cell phone and she was texting
32:13
Speaker 2: with her sisters and with her ex fiance because they
32:17
Speaker 2: were still on good terms, and she was like, hey,
32:20
Speaker 2: I'm getting kind of weirded out, Like yeah, yeah, not
32:23
Speaker 2: her exact words, but she was relaying to them that
32:26
Speaker 2: she had a little bit of concern that her friend
32:28
Speaker 2: had bailed on her and now she's with this other person.
32:31
Speaker 2: So her sisters I watched in an interview, said they
32:34
Speaker 2: were unable to come and get her. They totally would have,
32:37
Speaker 2: but they were unable to because they had also been drinking,
32:39
Speaker 2: and so you know, it's a small town where bad
32:42
Speaker 2: things don't really happen, so there wasn't like it's not
32:46
Speaker 2: like someone just dropped the ball and should have gotten her.
32:49
Speaker 2: There wasn't like a big cause for concern known to
32:51
Speaker 2: them in that moment. And as the night goes on,
32:56
Speaker 2: it's getting really late. So Brooklyn's texting with her now
33:00
Speaker 2: ex fiance and he's at a factory job that's overnight
33:04
Speaker 2: and he's going to get off at about six thirty am.
33:07
Speaker 2: So they're texting around four am, and she's like, I'm
33:10
Speaker 2: getting really scared. Can you please come get me? And
33:13
Speaker 2: he's like, I can come after my shift, and she's
33:15
Speaker 2: like okay, and then she's like, I think she sends
33:18
Speaker 2: a text that says please hurry or something that is
33:21
Speaker 2: really fearful, and he doesn't see that until after.
33:24
Speaker 3: He's off of his shift.
33:25
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
33:25
Speaker 2: So it's clear that her fear is ramping up at
33:30
Speaker 2: this point. So Paige, her sister, had a final conversation
33:35
Speaker 2: with Brooklyn over the phone back around four am. That's
33:39
Speaker 2: when Brooklyn told her she had left with someone she
33:41
Speaker 2: knew from the party. She would be catching right home
33:44
Speaker 2: with her ex fiance as soon as he got off work,
33:48
Speaker 2: and so they were like, okay, great. But then at
33:51
Speaker 2: five thirty am, her texts change. She's no longer scared
33:55
Speaker 2: or worried. She says she's actually going to another party.
33:58
Speaker 2: Her text reads, never mind, I'm okay, I'm going to
34:01
Speaker 2: a party in Rockcastle County. Strange, suspicious, very suspicious. And
34:06
Speaker 2: so Brooklyn never comes home and she's not heard from again.
34:10
Speaker 2: So now we're at June twenty second, twenty thirteen, so
34:13
Speaker 2: very early morning hours when an investigation into her disappearance begins.
34:19
Speaker 2: We learn that the person who took Brooklyn back to
34:23
Speaker 2: his house, well, his house was in foreclosure. The utilities
34:27
Speaker 2: were not operating, everything had been turned off. It was
34:30
Speaker 2: a totally dilapidated house. And he says he left early
34:35
Speaker 2: in the morning, Brooklyn was still at the house and
34:38
Speaker 2: he left to go check on a horse. And so
34:41
Speaker 2: later that day he calls in to report a fire
34:45
Speaker 2: that had broken out in his house and it had
34:47
Speaker 2: started on this sofa. Really strange because they go and
34:52
Speaker 2: investigate this fire and he never well, I'll get to
34:55
Speaker 2: this later, but Brooklyn's belongings were still at the house,
34:58
Speaker 2: but she was not there. So when he reports the fire,
35:02
Speaker 2: he never says there's a person in the house, please
35:06
Speaker 2: go make sure she's okay. He just reports the fire,
35:08
Speaker 2: which is really strange.
35:10
Speaker 1: Meaning like he knew that she wasn't in the house.
35:13
Speaker 2: He must have known that she wasn't in the house.
35:16
Speaker 2: It's like, this is a foreclosed on house. What 'sis
35:19
Speaker 2: big concern if not a human being inside of it,
35:22
Speaker 2: if there's a fire. Super weird. Now, he has never
35:26
Speaker 2: been named as a suspect formerly in the case. He
35:31
Speaker 2: has never been charged with any crimes related to her disappearance.
35:34
Speaker 2: But I found an article published on August eleventh, twenty twenty,
35:40
Speaker 2: a local news station Lects eighteen News said that the
35:43
Speaker 2: man who took Brooke and her friend back from the
35:45
Speaker 2: party that night was Josh Hensley, and when this article
35:50
Speaker 2: was published in twenty twenty, he was currently in jail
35:53
Speaker 2: on charges including possession or viewing of matter portraying a
35:58
Speaker 2: sexual performance by a minor, And from what I can
36:02
Speaker 2: tell online, he's actually still incarcerated but possibly could be
36:06
Speaker 2: released later this year, which is I think terrifying Brooklyn's mother.
36:12
Speaker 2: She commented to this reporter in this article. You know,
36:16
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of obviously suspicion around this
36:20
Speaker 2: man because he was the last person to see her. Yeah,
36:24
Speaker 2: and the fire is very strange. And why would you
36:27
Speaker 2: take a girl home back to your home, and then
36:30
Speaker 2: if you're going to go check on a horse, why
36:31
Speaker 2: wouldn't you bring her and drop her off?
36:33
Speaker 1: Then it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make so suspicious.
36:37
Speaker 1: I'm shocked that he was never a suspect, Like, how
36:42
Speaker 1: does that happen?
36:43
Speaker 2: How does that happen? I mean, I can only imagine
36:45
Speaker 2: how her family feels. Yeah, and I was on you know,
36:49
Speaker 2: a Facebook page related to her disappearance, and it seems
36:52
Speaker 2: like there's a fair amount of like pretty reasonable outrage
36:56
Speaker 2: that there's at least one person who should be I
37:01
Speaker 2: don't know. It seems surprising that he hasn't been named
37:03
Speaker 2: as a suspect. And maybe that's like a strategy. I
37:05
Speaker 2: have no idea.
37:08
Speaker 3: I don't know what.
37:08
Speaker 2: Happened, but it seems reasonable to think that a man
37:12
Speaker 2: who said he would take her home and then didn't
37:15
Speaker 2: didn't have great intentions. Yeah, it's terrible, and I'm sure
37:18
Speaker 2: the friend of hers that left her at the party that.
37:20
Speaker 1: Night feel terrible.
37:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, it made me think about that
37:25
Speaker 2: case in Sparta, Tennessee. You know, a very different case
37:28
Speaker 2: because those two kids there's an accident, they drive into
37:33
Speaker 2: the river. But Rosa, who was their friend that was
37:36
Speaker 2: supposed to be with them that night, she carried a
37:38
Speaker 2: lot of guilt for a long time about not having
37:41
Speaker 2: been there. And it's just terrible. And yeah, I would
37:44
Speaker 2: love to know why he hasn't been or someone hasn't
37:50
Speaker 2: been held accountable. I guess it's just maybe a lack
37:53
Speaker 2: of evidence. I have no idea.
37:55
Speaker 1: So what happened to the ex fiance? Did he end
37:58
Speaker 1: up driving to this house? Because he was friends with
38:02
Speaker 1: this guy Josh Hensley Hensley, So her ex fiance was
38:07
Speaker 1: friends with I don't know how long they've known each other,
38:10
Speaker 1: but this is his friend supposedly, so he knows where
38:13
Speaker 1: he lives. I would assume did he end up driving
38:16
Speaker 1: to come get her or with these texts that were
38:19
Speaker 1: sent that were like just kidding, we're going to a party,
38:22
Speaker 1: did he believe them? Yeah, that's a great question.
38:24
Speaker 3: I don't know.
38:25
Speaker 2: I wonder if I could find out, you know, I
38:27
Speaker 2: think the next day, what I recall reading was that
38:31
Speaker 2: it was like, Okay, well, Shirley, she'll be.
38:33
Speaker 3: Home any time now.
38:34
Speaker 2: And then yeah, as time goes on, you learn a
38:37
Speaker 2: little more and a little more, and then you learn
38:39
Speaker 2: about a weird fire and a neighbor had supposedly seen
38:42
Speaker 2: her at the house but so rural area already and
38:47
Speaker 2: he lived on the outskirts of them.
38:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you know, we don't know what went into
38:53
Speaker 1: the investigation or where the cases like from the investigator
38:57
Speaker 1: standpoint now, but it's so hard to believe because like,
39:00
Speaker 1: there are times when a crime happens or someone's even
39:03
Speaker 1: just being periphery to it, or happens to be in
39:06
Speaker 1: the wrong place at the wrong time ends up like
39:09
Speaker 1: sending them to prison for twenty years. And obviously every
39:14
Speaker 1: case is different, but the fact that this man did
39:17
Speaker 1: a series of things that were all suspicious. Was the
39:22
Speaker 1: last person to see her, you know that her texts
39:25
Speaker 1: changed so dramatically and in tone feels like, well was
39:29
Speaker 1: she texting or was he texting? And where is she?
39:33
Speaker 1: And why is the couch now on fire? Is this
39:35
Speaker 1: like an attempt to cover up evidence? You know, I
39:38
Speaker 1: don't know, but why are her belongings there? And she's not. Yeah, like,
39:42
Speaker 1: how is it that no one's looking into this? And
39:44
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe they did look into it, but
39:46
Speaker 1: it just feels so suspicious.
39:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's some detective or law
39:54
Speaker 2: enforcement locally. They're probably equally or more frustrated with the
39:59
Speaker 2: lack of movie. But in the case, maybe you should
40:01
Speaker 2: call him up. I should call him up. Yeah, it's terrible,
40:04
Speaker 2: and I think you know, even now, you hear so
40:06
Speaker 2: much about ride share drivers and it's not always safe
40:11
Speaker 2: to get a ride home with someone you don't know.
40:13
Speaker 1: Yeah.
40:13
Speaker 2: Books family has set up a website and Facebook page
40:16
Speaker 2: where people can submit information and tips, and you know
40:20
Speaker 2: they're not going to stop looking for her.
40:22
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for the listener who wrote that in and
40:26
Speaker 1: for all of the digging that you did on that. Yeah,
40:28
Speaker 1: we love hearing from you guys. And there's so many
40:31
Speaker 1: cases we haven't heard of that we're glad to look
40:35
Speaker 1: into or see if we can get interviews on them.
40:37
Speaker 1: And so if there's one that's on your mind, reach
40:39
Speaker 1: out the knife at exactlyrightmedia dot com send us an email. Okay, recommendations,
40:46
Speaker 1: I have multiple. My first recommendation it's actually we know
40:53
Speaker 1: some people who worked on this show. It's called Aftermath
40:57
Speaker 1: Hunt for the Anthrax Killer, and I found it to
41:01
Speaker 1: be so interesting. A lot of people will probably remember
41:05
Speaker 1: after nine to eleven there were these anthrax lace letters
41:09
Speaker 1: that were mailed out to people as well as news agencies,
41:14
Speaker 1: and it was this really big scare at the time
41:17
Speaker 1: because there was, you know, nine to eleven had just happened,
41:21
Speaker 1: and then there was this anthrax thing happening, and it
41:25
Speaker 1: was sort of like a scramble to figure out what
41:27
Speaker 1: was going on with that. And in the opening episode,
41:30
Speaker 1: the host talked about remembering this anthrax scare that happened,
41:35
Speaker 1: but not really remembering a lot of the details about it,
41:38
Speaker 1: or like who actually sent the anthrax letters? And I
41:42
Speaker 1: realized that I had the same experience, Like I was like, actually,
41:45
Speaker 1: what was going on with that?
41:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I definitely know the word anthrax that those
41:49
Speaker 2: letters were sent, and I know nothing else about it.
41:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a really great investigation into that. They
41:56
Speaker 1: interview different FBI agents who worked on this investigation. It
42:02
Speaker 1: was a long investigation to try to find some answers.
42:05
Speaker 1: I thought it was really well done and really interesting.
42:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll have to give that a listen.
42:09
Speaker 1: My second recommendation, this is a podcast that I've listened
42:12
Speaker 1: to for years, but I really like it. It's against
42:16
Speaker 1: the odds. It's a wondering podcast if you listen to
42:18
Speaker 1: this one.
42:19
Speaker 2: I have listened to a few episodes of it, but
42:21
Speaker 2: actually not in a while.
42:21
Speaker 3: I should go back.
42:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, such a different format of podcasting, right, It's just
42:26
Speaker 1: like a narrator telling a story, a historical story of
42:31
Speaker 1: people surviving in wilderness situations. They did a season that
42:36
Speaker 1: I really liked a couple of years back that covered
42:39
Speaker 1: the plane crash in the Andes Uruguayan Air Force Flight
42:44
Speaker 1: five seven to one. It was the rugby team that
42:48
Speaker 1: was on the way to a tournament and they crashed
42:50
Speaker 1: in the Andes and very high elevation and some of
42:54
Speaker 1: them survive, like this wild story of surviving for many days.
42:59
Speaker 1: It was really well done. And then I just started
43:01
Speaker 1: their newest season which is about Mount Saint Helens erupting.
43:06
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, actually my mom just sent me these
43:08
Speaker 2: wild photos of my college campus at Wazoo Washington State
43:12
Speaker 2: University after that eruption cover and ash.
43:16
Speaker 3: Wow.
43:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was in nineteen eighty that it happened, So
43:21
Speaker 1: I'm just really enjoying it. It's a totally different kind
43:23
Speaker 1: of podcast than what we do, but I think their
43:25
Speaker 1: storytelling is well done. It touches on similar to true crime,
43:32
Speaker 1: almost like this is what I would do in that scenario,
43:35
Speaker 1: even if it's not actually there's something happening there. And
43:39
Speaker 1: I feel like I have the same thing with natural
43:42
Speaker 1: disaster content, where it probably is coming from some deep
43:47
Speaker 1: anxiety about like climate change or something, or maybe it's
43:50
Speaker 1: because I watched so many disaster movies growing up. You know,
43:53
Speaker 1: It's like Armageddon is like burned into my brain. I'm like,
43:56
Speaker 1: guys were allowed to watch this, We could watch those
43:58
Speaker 1: because I don't know why they weren't like religious, Like
44:03
Speaker 1: I don't know for some reason, like a lot of
44:06
Speaker 1: the stuff I wasn't allowed to watch, but like Action
44:09
Speaker 1: Adventure was okay, So like yeah, like Dante's Peak and
44:14
Speaker 1: Deep Impact, all of those movies are like so vivid
44:17
Speaker 1: and formed part of how I became who I am.
44:21
Speaker 1: So whether it's like scripted or if it's like historical,
44:26
Speaker 1: I'm so into it and I don't want that to
44:28
Speaker 1: be like downplay the reality of like the horror of
44:32
Speaker 1: natural disasters. Something I think about a lot, and I
44:36
Speaker 1: also love like listening to history podcasts. That's why I
44:40
Speaker 1: think one of the reasons I love Against All Odds
44:42
Speaker 1: is because it's sort of like the natural disaster. It's
44:45
Speaker 1: also stories of people surviving, which is really inspiring, and
44:49
Speaker 1: it's history as well. But one of the things I
44:52
Speaker 1: was thinking about is like, if I could create my
44:56
Speaker 1: perfect podcast, I mean I can create, you can, yeah,
45:00
Speaker 1: but to listen to, Like I don't necessarily want to
45:03
Speaker 1: make this podcast, but I would love to listen to
45:05
Speaker 1: this podcast, like a history podcast that touches on natural disasters,
45:11
Speaker 1: but that is like told through a female lens or
45:15
Speaker 1: queer lens or more diverse lens. I just think, like
45:19
Speaker 1: the power of storytelling is so important to me, and
45:23
Speaker 1: no matter how sort of unbiased you are or whatever,
45:27
Speaker 1: like your life experience does impact the way you view
45:30
Speaker 1: a story and the things that you might bring up
45:32
Speaker 1: about it. And so that's why I would love this
45:34
Speaker 1: kind of podcast, except if it had like this extra lens.
45:39
Speaker 3: Yeah.
45:39
Speaker 2: Actually, I mean this is not natural disaster? But is Wilderness?
45:43
Speaker 2: Is that show alone on the History Channel? Yes, love
45:46
Speaker 2: that show. Love that show, And on one of the
45:49
Speaker 2: earlier seasons, gosh, I do not remember her name. I
45:51
Speaker 2: wish I did, but there was this woman on there.
45:54
Speaker 2: She was such a force. She had MS and she
45:58
Speaker 2: was absolutely crushing it on Alone. There's cuts of her
46:03
Speaker 2: like throwing a fish back into the river because she
46:06
Speaker 2: was so well fed with Oh my god he had
46:09
Speaker 2: And then they cut to this guy who's like, I'm
46:12
Speaker 2: leaving after three days, like I can't take this anymore.
46:15
Speaker 1: It's always the like prepper dudes who can't cut it.
46:18
Speaker 1: And then it's like the woman who like made like
46:21
Speaker 1: wove her own chair. Yeah, yeah, she was thriving, thriving.
46:24
Speaker 1: There was one woman who made like a jacket of
46:27
Speaker 1: squirrels or something.
46:29
Speaker 2: Probably my all time favorite on Alone was Calie. She
46:31
Speaker 2: was in a later season.
46:33
Speaker 1: If I watched that one yet, well I'm not gonna
46:35
Speaker 1: give you a spoiler, but Callie rocked.
46:37
Speaker 2: Her season and was incredible to watch. But yeah, I
46:41
Speaker 2: was in an earthquake in seventh grade.
46:44
Speaker 1: Wait, you want to tell people before you move on
46:45
Speaker 1: real quick? What Alone is?
46:46
Speaker 2: Oh?
46:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:47
Speaker 2: So if you're not familiar, Alone is, it's an unscripted
46:51
Speaker 2: It's a reality show, but not what you think when
46:54
Speaker 2: you think reality shows. There's these contestants who are wilderness
46:59
Speaker 2: survival expert in some way, and they all have you know,
47:03
Speaker 2: different backgrounds or from different climates, and the seasons mostly
47:07
Speaker 2: take place in Canada, maybe all of them, I'm not sure,
47:10
Speaker 2: but deep in the wilderness, these people are dropped off
47:14
Speaker 2: all far away from each other, so everyone is alone.
47:17
Speaker 2: There is no camera crew. These people are trained to
47:20
Speaker 2: take their own footage with their own GoPros, and.
47:23
Speaker 3: They really set up like the most beautiful shots.
47:26
Speaker 2: It's actually like reminiscent for me of that documentary Grizzly Man.
47:30
Speaker 1: I love that documentary, so very sad but really good.
47:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he just, you know, he really took a
47:37
Speaker 2: lot of pride in setting up these shots. And they
47:39
Speaker 2: do the same thing, probably because they don't have a
47:41
Speaker 2: lot to do when they're not trying to like fish
47:44
Speaker 2: or whatever.
47:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're really alone for like a long time,
47:48
Speaker 1: like they're trying to outlast everybody, so it's not like
47:51
Speaker 1: thirty days when you're done. It's just like you don't know,
47:53
Speaker 1: you want to be the last one standing, and you.
47:55
Speaker 2: Don't know when the other people have dropped off, which
47:58
Speaker 2: I think is genius because like the games that would
48:00
Speaker 2: play with you is like, Okay, well I'm almost ready
48:04
Speaker 2: to leave, but I'm just up against one other person.
48:06
Speaker 2: Would be a very different decision making process than if
48:09
Speaker 2: you knew that there were still six people left. Yeah,
48:11
Speaker 2: like it's huge. Yeah, one moment from Alone that I
48:15
Speaker 2: don't think it's talked about enough. I think it's on
48:17
Speaker 2: the very first season. Should fact check this before it
48:21
Speaker 2: for it airs, But I swear to you there was
48:25
Speaker 2: the crew comes and picks up the last person on
48:27
Speaker 2: the on a boat to tell them they've won. And
48:31
Speaker 2: on the way there, someone had brought this person cookies
48:34
Speaker 2: and a crew member ate them. What And I'm like,
48:38
Speaker 2: what kind of person who raised you? This person is
48:41
Speaker 2: starving in the wilderness and you ate the cookies someone
48:44
Speaker 2: made for them. That's right, like beyond my comprehension. But yeah,
48:49
Speaker 2: Alone is I think just a great show and I'm
48:53
Speaker 2: super impressive.
48:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed, We're gonna tell a story about it.
48:56
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
48:57
Speaker 2: I have a very distinct memory of junior High I
49:00
Speaker 2: was in I think I was in seventh grade and
49:02
Speaker 2: there was a big earthquake where I'm from in Washington
49:05
Speaker 2: State and I was standing in the lunch room.
49:07
Speaker 3: I think this plays into my fear of them.
49:09
Speaker 2: And I was waiting in line or I was standing
49:12
Speaker 2: next to someone and this guy like kind of like
49:15
Speaker 2: bumped me. It just felt like a weird bump, like
49:19
Speaker 2: not like someone brushing her shoulder, and it took me
49:21
Speaker 2: a second to sort of realize what was happening. But
49:24
Speaker 2: we both sort of turn around and see the entire
49:27
Speaker 2: rest of the cafeteria is under the tables, and so
49:32
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, what do I do? Because then you
49:33
Speaker 2: realize the whole ground is moving. I swear I could
49:36
Speaker 2: see things like rolling. It was the most bizarre experience.
49:39
Speaker 2: There were like cracks in the concrete after this, and
49:42
Speaker 2: then the tile.
49:42
Speaker 3: It was weird.
49:43
Speaker 2: And then I got under the moving condiment cart like.
49:48
Speaker 3: This subs like just swinging everywhere.
49:51
Speaker 2: Like I know I would not survive better than nothing,
49:55
Speaker 2: but it added another layer of difficulty to the moment.
49:58
Speaker 2: And yeah, so the and I also remember then walking
50:02
Speaker 2: outside of the cafeteria into like the courtyard of the
50:05
Speaker 2: school I went to and a bird had fallen. Oh weird,
50:09
Speaker 2: and you don't see birds just like fall and I'm.
50:12
Speaker 1: A bad omen.
50:13
Speaker 2: Yeah that's our show, Thanks for listening.
50:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll see you next.
50:16
Speaker 1: Week.
50:18
Speaker 2: If you have a story for us, we would love
50:20
Speaker 2: to hear it. Our email is The Knife at exactly
50:23
Speaker 2: rightmedia dot com, or you can follow us on Instagram
50:26
Speaker 2: at the Knife podcast or.
50:27
Speaker 3: A Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.
50:29
Speaker 1: This has been an Exactly Right production hosted and produced
50:32
Speaker 1: by me Hannah Smith and me Paytia Eaton.
50:35
Speaker 2: Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and Alexis Samarosi.
50:38
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel.
50:40
Speaker 3: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.
50:43
Speaker 1: Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.
50:45
Speaker 3: Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.
50:47
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.