Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Johanna Sjoberg's Deposition In The Maxwell/Virginia Roberts Suit (Part 7-11)

Transcript

Johanna Sjoberg's Deposition In The Maxwell/Virginia Roberts Suit (Part 7-11) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: In this episode we're going to pick up where we
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: left off with the Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's get
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: right back to it, shall we? Manager, do you recall
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: meeting with her in about 2006 when she was in
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: town for some helicopter training? Answer, I do recall that. Manager,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: do you recall giving her some massages during that period? Yes. Manager,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: do you remember going out to dinner with her and
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: to a movie? I remember to a movie. I don't
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: remember if we went to dinner. I remember her cooking dinner.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: That was another way she impressed me. She knew how
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: to cook like a chef. She had done some culinary training. Manager,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: and you guys had a normal type conversation? Answer. Yes,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: it was very fun. Macaulay. Objection. Manager. I would like
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: to take about a five to ten minute break if
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: that's okay. They go to a break and then they're
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: back at 1125 right back at it. Manager. Hi. I
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: believe when we left off, I was asking you about
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: massages that you gave to Ghislaine. Did Ghislaine pay you
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: when she got a massage from you? Answer. Yes. Manager.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Do you know how much she paid you? Answer. I
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: believe it was 200. It was the going rate. Manager.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: the same you were getting paid by Jeffrey, correct? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine was not present when you were giving massages to Jeffrey, correct? McCauley, objection. Schoberg, correct. Manager,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: at some point, Jeffrey became more aggressive with you, correct? Answer, correct. McCauley, objection. Manager,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: and what does that mean to you? Become more aggressive. Answer,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: he was pressuring me to do more than I was
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: comfortable with doing. Manager, is that what ultimately caused you
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: to leave working for Jeffrey? Answer, what caused me to
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: leave was when it was made public what I was doing. Manager,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: what do you mean by that? Answer, well, after I
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: had spoken with the police report... the police, and there
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: was a police report, I did not realize that was
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: public knowledge journalists would get a hold of. So at
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: one point, the News Channel 12 showed up at my
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: door asking me questions. Manager, when Jeffrey was pressuring you
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: to do more than you felt comfortable with, did you
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: observe him being more aggressive in general outside of the
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: massage context? McCauley, objection. Schoberg, no. Manager, do you know
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: whether he was... Taking any type of steroids? Answer. No. Manager.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Did you ever see him wearing a patch or something
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: like that? Schoberg. I don't recall. Manager. Did you tell
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: anyone that Jeffrey was becoming more aggressive with you? Contemporaneous
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: with when it was happening? McCauley. Objection. Witness. No. Manager.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: When Jeffrey asked you to do other things besides a
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: normal massage, did he offer to pay you additionally? Answer. Yes. Manager.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: How much? Answer. No. $ 100 extra. Can I clarify? Manager, absolutely. Answer,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: he didn't ever say he would pay me more, but
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: when the massage was more than just a massage and
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: it was sexual, then he would pay me more. Manager,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: it wasn't a discussion. It's just what happened. Answer, correct. Manager,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: thank you for clarifying. The things that took place with
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: you and Jeffrey behind closed doors were when you were
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: a consenting adult, correct? Answer, yes. Macaulay, objection. Witness, correct. Manager,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: and you did not have knowledge of what took place
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: with other women behind closed doors and Jeffrey, correct. McCauley, objection. Witness, correct. Manager,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: do you recall ever giving an interview to a reporter
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: from the mail on Sunday? Answer, yes. Manager, you told
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: that reporter, I believe, that the police report painted a
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: picture that it was a big orgy all the time,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't. Answer, what I saw, I did not
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: see anything out in the open sexually, me personally. Manager, right.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: You did not see orgies happening in the pool, for example. Answer, no. Manager,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: you did not see people engaging in sexual conduct in
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: the open areas of the home, correct? Answer, right. Macaulay, objection. Manager,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: when you became aware of the allegations against Jeffrey, those
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: came as a surprise to you, correct? Macaulay, objection. Witness, correct. Manager,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and the surprise was that it involved underage girls making
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: that allegation, correct? Macaulay, objection. Witness, correct. Manager, you were
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: asked some questions with Ms. McCauley about nude photographs that
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: were present in the home or the homes? Answer, yeah. Manager,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: in Palm Beach, I believe you said, there were some
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: in the room where the massage table was? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: can you tell me what you recall seeing? Answer, it
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: wasn't candid photos, they were all like staged. Answer, like
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: a model? Answer, yes. And my, I don't recall necessarily
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: knowing any of the people in those photos. I remember
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: at one point there was a photo of myself, but... Manager,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: were they fully frontally nude or were they staged like with,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: you know, parts of the body showing? Answer, I really
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: only remember topless photos. I don't remember full frontal photos. Manager,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: so exposing the breasts, but not the genitals? Answer, not
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: that I recall. In Ghislaine's bathroom, I believe there was
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: a photo of her topless or a painting. Manager, a painting? Answer, uh-huh. Manager,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: did you see any nude or semi-clad photos of young girls? Answer, no. Manager, preteens,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: for example? Answer, no. Manager, something you would consider child pornography? Answer, never. Manager,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: other than in the bathroom or the massage room at
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: the Palm Beach home, do you recall any other place
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: in the Palm Beach home where you saw any of
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: these topless photos of women? Answer, I remember there being
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: photos everywhere, and the ones that stick out in my
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: memory are Are the ones. There was a photo of
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine with the Pope. It would not surprise me if
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: there were naked photos around. I just didn't retain them
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: in my memory. Manager. So when you say there were
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: photos everywhere, you mean just photos in general? Answer. Yes.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: They had a lot of photos around the house. Macaulay. Objection. Manager.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: and Ghislaine was not topless in a photo with the Pope,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: just so I'm clear? Answer, correct. Manager, I just want
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: to make sure that we get that record really clear,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: so you recall there being photos everywhere, you just remember
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: a couple sticking out, and your brain is being topless? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and the walls on the staircase to the upstairs were
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: not just covered with nude photographs to your recollection? Answer,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: to my recollection, I just, I don't remember. Manager, did
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you observe what you would consider to be child pornography
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: on any computer in the home? Answer, no. Manager, did
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: you observe anyone taking photographs of young girls in the home? Answer, no. Manager,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: the photograph of yourself that you saw, was that something
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: that you had posed for? Answer, not like professionally, but
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: I was just sitting and I believe Jeffrey took the photo.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I was just sitting on a couch upstairs in the bathroom. Manager,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: it wasn't taken by a hidden camera? Answer, no, no,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I was smiling in the picture. Manager, and likewise, in
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: the New York home, did you see anything you described
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: as a large painting or a photograph that was in
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: the massage room? Answer, yes. Manager, do you recall any
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: other pictures of semi-clad or naked females? Answer, I don't recall. Manager,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: anything that you would consider to be child pornography that
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: you saw in the New York home? Answer, no. Manager,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: and likewise in New Mexico? Answer, I don't recall. Manager,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: do you recall seeing any semi-clad photos in New Mexico
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: at all? Answer, I do not recall. Manager, and the
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Virgin Islands? Answer, yes, in his bathroom, master bathroom. Answer,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: and what do you recall, if anything, about that photo? Answer,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: there was a photo of me in there. Manager, and again,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: was that something that you were okay with? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein never told you that he knowingly had sexual
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: contact with an underage girl, correct? McCauley, objection. Schoberg, when
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I asked him if the accusations were true after I
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: spoke with the police, he said yes, but they lied
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: about their age. Manager, how did that conversation come about? Answer,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: he asked me if the police had ever spoken to me.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: And I asked him if it was true. Manager. And
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: you were talking about underage girls. Answer. Correct. Manager. And
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: he said that he had been lied to by those girls. Answer. Yes. Manager.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Did he say anything else to you about it? Answer. No. Manager.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Did you ask him anything else about it? Answer. No. Manager.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Did you attempt to have any conversation like that with
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer. No. Manager. I saw one press report.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: That said, you had met Cate Blanchett or Leonardo DiCaprio. Answer.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: I did not meet them, no. When I spoke about them,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: it was when I was massaging him and he would
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: get off. He would be on the phone a lot
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: of that time. And one time he said, oh, that
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: was Leonardo. Or, oh, that was Cate Blanchett or Bruce Willis.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: That kind of thing. Manager. So name dropping. Answer. Yes. Manager. Yes.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: So you had not met Cate Blanchett or Leonardo DiCaprio? Answer,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I have not. Manager, would you remember if you had? Answer,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I would hope I would remember. Manager, did you meet
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Cameron Diaz? Answer, no. Manager, Bill Clinton? Answer, no. Manager,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: did you see Bill Clinton on the island? Answer, no. Manager,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: did you see Bill Clinton in a helicopter being flown
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: by Glenn Maxwell? Answer, no. Manager, did Glenn Maxwell ever
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: tell you that she had flown Bill Clinton in her helicopter? McCauley, objection. Schoberg,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I don't recall her saying that. Menninger, did you ever
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: meet Senator Redacted? Answer, I don't know what he looks like.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: I might have. Answer, if I told you that he
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: was from Maine, would that stick out in your mind?
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: And just to add here, they're obviously talking about George Mitchell. Answer,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: it should, but I don't recall meeting him. Manager, do
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: you ever remember meeting Prime Minister Ehud Barak from Israel? Answer, no. Manager,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: do you recall meeting the Prime Minister or any Prime Ministers? Answer, no. Manager,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: any foreign presidents? Answer, no. Manager, Nobel Prize winners? Answer,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: not to my knowledge. Manager, Naomi Campbell? Answer, no. Al Gore? Answer, no.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Alan Dershowitz? Answer, no. Les Wexner? Answer, no. Tom Pritzker? Answer, no.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Kevin Spacey? I may have already asked you, but have
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: you met Kevin Spacey? Answer, no. Menninger, did you meet
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico? Answer, hmm, I want
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: to say that he was supposed to come to the
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: dinner when we were in New Mexico. I don't know
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: if I met him. I believe that he and Ghislaine
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: had dinner separate from myself. Manager, Jean-Luc Brunel? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: you did meet him? Answer, yes. Manager, tell me about it. Answer,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: he was just in the house at one time in
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach. Manager, socializing? Answer, yes. Manager, did you observe
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: him to be with underage girls? Answer, I don't recall. Manager,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: did you give him a massage? Answer, I don't think
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: that I did. I gave a lot of guests massages.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I don't remember any of their names, so it could
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: have been any of those people besides the movie stars. Manager,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: you would know? Answer, exactly. Manager, and did you engage
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: in sexual contact with any of the guests for whom
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: you gave a massage? Answer, no. That's why he would
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: call me for his guests because I was not comfortable
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: with the sexual contact. So he still wanted to employ
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: me as a massage therapist, but it was all normal.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Gotta have a little bit of truth sprinkled in with
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: your lie, right? Manager, so this was just an actual
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: conversation that you had? Answer, no. But I noticed. I
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: noticed that I wasn't. I wasn't massaging him less and
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: less and massaging his guests more. Manager, so there was
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: a change in the frequency with which you were giving
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein massages? Answer, right. Manager, and an increase corresponding
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: to massages you were giving to guests, correct? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: did any of the guests for whom you gave a
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: massage mention that they expected something sexual? Answer, no. Manager,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: did they ask you to engage in sexual contact and
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: you refused? McCauley, objection. The witness answers, no. Back to Menninger,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: how about Marvin Minsky? Answer, I don't know. Menninger, George Lucas, answer, no. Menninger,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump, answer, no. Did you ever massage Donald Trump? Answer, no. Menninger, sorry,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I have to ask, but did you ever have sex
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: with Alan Dershowitz in the back of a limousine with
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Virginia and Jeffrey Present? McCauley, objection. The witness, absolutely not. Manager,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: do you know who Alan Dershowitz is? Answer, I do. Manager,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: you would remember. Answer, I would remember that. Manager, did
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: you ever see Virginia Roberts with any of the people
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: that I just asked you about? Answer, no. Manager, did
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Virginia ever talk to you about having been with any
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: of those people? Miss McCauley, objection. Answer, no. Manager, did
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: she tell you that she had met any of those people? Answer, no.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right there,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: and in the next episode, we'll pick up where we
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: left off. All the information that goes with this episode
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: we're going to dive right back into the Johanna Schoberg
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: deposition and pick up where we left off. Manager, I
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: believe you saw in the police report a reference to
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: a friend of Jeffrey named Glenn and his wife. Answer, uh-huh. Manager,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: do you remember them? Answer, vaguely. Manager, tell me what
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: you remember. Answer, I remember they had an apartment in
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Onbreaker's Row. I went up there and massaged. It may
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: have been more than once, but I only really remember
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: one time. But there was nothing sexual. Manager, neither with
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the wife nor with Glenn. Answer, right. Manager, do you
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: remember the apartment? Answer, I only remember that I had
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: to carry my massage table up some stairs. Manager, so
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: you actually gave the massage on a massage table? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: does that help you place it in time as to
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: when that might have occurred? In other words, did you
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: get your massage license at some point and a massage table? Macaulay, objection.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Back to Schoberg, yes, he bought me my massage table.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: around the time that I went to massage school. So
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: it could have been any time after that. If I
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: thought really hard, I could remember when I went to school,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: but I want to say it's around 2003. Manager. Nothing
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: sexual happened with Glenn? Answer. No. Manager. Did Glenn ask
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: you to give him a massage on the floor of
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: the home? Answer. I don't recall. Manager. Did you ever
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: discuss Glenn with Virginia? Answer. Not to my recollection. Manager.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Did you ever go to Virginia's home? Answer, no. Manager,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: do you know where she lived? Answer, no. Manager, did
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: she talk about it? Answer, not that I remember. Manager,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: did you see anything in your interactions with Virginia that
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: led you to believe that she was a sex slave? McCauley, objection.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Schoberg answers, no. Manager, did you see anyone forcing her
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: to remain in the home? Answer, no. Manager, did you
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: see her look traumatized at some point? Macaulay, objection. Schoberg answers, no. Manager,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: did you see anything that led you to believe Virginia
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Roberts had been trafficked, sexually trafficked to a third party? Macaulay, objection. Witness, no. Manager,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: did Virginia ever tell you that she had been trafficked? Answer, no. Macaulay, objection. Manager,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: did you hear anyone direct Virginia Roberts to go have
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: sex with someone? Answer, no. Manager, did Jeffrey ever ask
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: you to go have sex with another person? Answer, no. Manager,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: did Glenn Maxwell ever ask you to go have sex
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: with another person? Answer, no. Manager, did Glenn Maxwell ever
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: ask you to give a massage to someone else? Answer, no. Manager,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: did Glenn Maxwell ever ask you to dress up in
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: any outfits? Answer, no. Manager, did she ever buy you
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: an outfit for you to wear? In terms of a
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: sexual profile? Answer, no. Manager, did she tell you what
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: kind of clothes you should buy? Answer, no. Manager, did
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: she direct you to go get Brazilian bikini waxes? Answer, no. Manager,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: did she direct you to go get your teeth whitened? Answer, no. Manager,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I would like to mark as an exhibit... I have
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: no recollection what number we're on. Exhibit 5. The referred
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: to document was marked by the court reporter for identification
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: as Schoberg. Exhibit 5. Manager. Have you seen this article before? Answer.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: It has followed me everywhere. McCauley. I'm sorry. Can I
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: just ask you to put the Bates number on the record? Manager. Sure.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: It's Bates marked Roberts 1131 through 1138. Manager. What do
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: you mean that it has followed you everywhere? Answer. Well,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: if you Google me, it comes up. Manager, I wanted
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: to just ask you a couple of questions. On the
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: third page towards the bottom, there is a photograph that begins.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: We had a picture taken. And just to orient you,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: this is in the discussion around the Prince Andrew meeting
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: you had. Did Prince Andrew at any other time besides
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the time you already described in your testimony? Answer. No. Manager.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: If you want to take a look at the paragraph
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: before I ask you a question. Answer. Okay. Manager. In
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: that paragraph, it describes that Andrew, Virginia, sat on the chair,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: and then Andrew sat on another chair, and you sat
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: on his lap. McCauley. Objection. Manager. Is that what it says? Answer.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: That's what it says. Manager. Do you recall telling that
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: to the reporter? Answer. Yes. Manager. And this was back
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: in 2007 or so? Answer. Yes. Manager. Answer. As you
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: sit here today, does that make it, does that refresh
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: your recollection that Virginia was sitting in one chair and
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: you were sitting in another with Andrew? Answer, yeah. If
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I said that, then I remember it that way. I'm
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: just trying to remember. Whether we were on a couch
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: or on a chair, I just remember the boobs part.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: The hand on the boobs. Manager, I understand that that
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: part stands out, and I also completely understand if you
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: don't remember things that happened a long time ago. Answer, right. Manager,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if, having looked at this news article,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: it refreshes your memory that Virginia was sitting in a
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: different place. Answer, in a different chair. Manager, does it? Answer,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: it does say that. Does it refresh my memory? Manager, okay,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: that's fine. Answer, yeah, sure. Manager, if it doesn't, it doesn't.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I'm just asking. Did Virginia say anything to you about
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: having met Prince Andrew before this time in New York? Macaulay, objection. Answer,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: she did not say. Manager, did Prince Andrew say or
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: do anything that led you to believe that he had
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: met Virginia prior to that time? Answer, I don't recall. Manager,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: did you ever see Al Gore on the island? Answer, no. Manager,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: did you ever see his wife, Tipper Gore, on the island? Answer, no. Manager,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: what is your understanding of what the lawsuit we are
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: here today is about? Answer, I understand that Ghislaine is
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: calling Virginia a liar, and so Ghislaine is suing Virginia.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, strike that. Reverse it, right. Virginia is suing
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine for defamation. Manager, and do you know what Virginia
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: said about Ghislaine? Answer, that Ghislaine recruited her. Manager, do
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: you know anything else that Virginia said about Ghislaine? Answer, only.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: what was spoken to me. Manager, and I should clarify,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: don't tell me anything your lawyer has conveyed to you. Answer, exactly,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: that's all I know. I've met with Virginia once last summer. Manager, okay,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: tell me about that. Answer, she, there was a moderator
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: between us, like an investigator, and she was in Palm Beach,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: and it was about Jeffries. It was less about Ghislaine.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I don't remember specifically about Ghislaine at all. Manager, so
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: you met with Virginia and an investigator at the same time? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: and they were what? Talking to you about Jeffrey in context? Macaulay, objection.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Sjoberg answers, basically they were trying to find people that
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: would help her get her story out because this is
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: when Dershowitz, Dershowitz was saying nothing was happening and he
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: was calling her a liar. and she was just trying
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to find people to back up her story. Manager, and
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: what did you understand her story to be? Did she
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: tell you? Answer, that she was recruited to give massages,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: sexual massages, and have sex with people such as Dershowitz
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: and Andrew, but I knew none of that at the time. Manager, right.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Did you tell them anything? Did you tell them during
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: that meeting that you knew of anything about her being
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: recruited to give sex to either Jeffrey or other people? Macaulay, objection. Schoberg,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: can you rephrase? Menninger, yes, that wasn't a very good question.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: What did you say during this meeting with Virginia and
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: her investigator? Answer, basically that I believed her, even though I,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: she never spoke to me specifically about what was going on.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: That once I learned everything that had happened based on
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: reading the police report, I believed her side of the story. Menninger,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: and did she tell you what her side of the
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: story was? Answer, you know, it's just that she wasn't
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: a liar. That, you know, she was there to have
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: sex with men. that Jeffrey wanted her to sleep with. Manager,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: did she tell you in that meeting who she had
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: sex with? Answer, no. Manager, did she name any of
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: the famous people? Answer, only Dershowitz came up. Manager, did
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: you two talk about the incident in New York with
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: the puppet? Answer, I don't recall. Manager, and you formed
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: this opinion about whether she was a liar based on
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: things that you've read in the police report? Macaulay, objection. Schoberg,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I formed my opinion based on my experience in the house. Manager, OK.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: And what experience in the house help you form your
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: opinion that what Virginia is saying is true? Answer, you know,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey being open with me about what other girls did
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: for him and that I was not one of those girls.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: He was always trying to recruit me almost in any
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: way he could that so that I could be one
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: of them and travel with them and live this life
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: of luxury. If I only if I only did this.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: So after five years of learning what was happening, I
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: can look back knowing I only know Virginia for a
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: very short time. Looking back, I can make assumptions about
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: what was required of her. Manager, did she tell you
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: how old she was when she started working with Jeffrey? Answer,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: she didn't. Manager, did she tell you how long she
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: had worked with Jeffrey? Answer, no. Manager, have you read
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: all the things that have been attributed to her in
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the press? Answer, many of them. Macaulay, objection. Schoberg, I
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: don't know what I've read, all of them, but I've
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: read some. Meninger, in this meeting with Virginia and the investigator,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: you said Ghislaine Maxwell did not come up. Answer, not
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: that I recall. Meninger, do you know the name of
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the investigator? Answer, Valerie Rivera. Meninger, have you read the
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: statement that Ghislaine Maxwell issued to the press? Answer, no. Meninger,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: do you know what it says? Answer, no. Manager, you
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: said you have read some of Virginia's statements to the press,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: but not all of them? Answer, I don't know how
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: many there are. I know I read something. I don't
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: know if I read them all. Manager, have you read
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: her book manuscript? Answer, no. Macaulay, objection. Manager, did she
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: tell you she was writing a book? Answer, no. Manager,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: did she tell you she was trying to get a
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: book deal? Macaulay, objection. Sjoberg answers, no. Manager, did she
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: tell you that she hired a ghostwriter? Answer, no. Macaulay, objection. Manager,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: did she tell you she hired a literary agent? Macaulay, objection. Witness, no. Manager,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: did you speak with John Connolly? Answer, yes. Manager, when
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: did you speak with John Connolly? Answer, he was first
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: calling me around the time that everything was coming out
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: in 2006. I didn't say a lot to him, but
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I did say a few things, and I asked him
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: not to use my name, and he used my name.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: And then he quoted me as saying things that I
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: never said. Manager, and do you know who he quoted
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: things at you have never said to? Answer, I don't
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: remember the news outlet, no. Manager, so it was published somewhere? Answer,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: somewhere on the internet. Macaulay, something that you said to
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: John Connolly got twisted? Answer, yes. He put words in
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: my mouth. Manager, and it was misreported and published? Macaulay, objection. Witness, correct. Manager,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: have you spoken to him lately? Answer, no, he called
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: me again at the beginning of last year, around New
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Year's last year, but I did not return his call. Manager,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: do you recall what it is he attributed to you falsely? Answer,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: it was mostly about how I felt about certain things.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: I don't remember specifically what he said, but he was
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: giving an opinion for me that I never spoke to
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: him about. Manager, and you did not hold? Answer, well,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, yeah. Manager, okay, do
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: you know whether Virginia has lied about any of her experience? McCauley, objection.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: The witness, I don't know that she has lied. Manager,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: do you know that she has told the truth? Answer,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: as far as I know she has. Manager, do you
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: know whether the press has accurately reported everything that Virginia
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: has said? McCauley, objection. Schoberg, I don't know. Manager, other
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: than John Connolly and the police, who else have you
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: spoken to about your experience? Answer, well, the woman from
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: the Daily Mail, her name is Wendy Lee. Manager, and
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: that's Defendant's Exhibit 5, not Defendant's Exhibit, just Exhibit 5, correct? Answer, correct. Manager,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: did Wendy Lee or Lay accurately report your statements? Answer,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: she did a little bit of embellishment as well, but
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: the facts are all true. Manager, and what parts do
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you believe are embellished? Answer, near the end when she
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: was doing a summary, when she wrote, sure, I had
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: a good time. but I also think it damaged me
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: a bit. I don't recall saying that. And there's another
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: part in there where she said I said that I
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: made a deal with the devil, which I never would
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: have said that, the word she used. Manager, on page
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: two of eight, it's about, it's about even with the
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: hem of your skirt. Answer, I made a pact with
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the devil in exchange for excitement and glamour. I was
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: only a college student. I was hard up and foolish.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: That I never said. Any of that. I was a
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: college student, that's true. Hard up and foolish? I would
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: have never called myself foolish. Manager, were you paid for this? Answer.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I was paid $ 1, 500. Manager, and how long did the
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: interview last? Answer, a couple of hours. Manager, where did
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: it take place? Answer, at Café Boulode in the Brazilian
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Court Hotel in Palm Beach. Manager, who else besides Wendy
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Lee and John Connolly and the police... McCauley, objection. Manager
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: and Virginia and the investigator, McCauley, objection. Did you talk
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: to about your experiences? Answer, family and friends. Manager, did
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: you speak to any other reporters? Answer, I had other
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: reporters calling me. I avoided most of all their calls.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I had someone coming at me, stalking me. I don't
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: know who he was. He offered me $ 25, 000 to give
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: a story and I turned him down. Manager, who? Answer,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: he showed up at my work multiple times. Manager, there
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: were other stories printed in the Daily Mail, but not
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: by Wendy Lay later. Did you see any of those stories?
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, let me be a little clearer. They attributed
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: comments to you. Answer, I don't recall specifically, but I
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: feel like I stayed on top of it, and I
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: wasn't surprised when my name was brought up. Manager, do
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: you recall giving another interview? Answer, no, never. Manager, do
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: you recall saying anything that was printed, other than John
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Connolly thing that you believe to be inaccurate? Answer, no. Manager,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: was there anybody else present when you were interviewing with Wendy? Answer, no. Manager,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: was she recording it on a recorder? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: have you ever heard that recording? Answer, no. Manager, do
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: you know whether the police were recording their interview with you? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: have you heard that recording? Answer, no. All right, we're
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: going to wrap this episode up right here, and in
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: the next episode, we'll pick up where we left off.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: be found In the description box. What's up everyone and
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. We left off with
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Manager asking questions about the interview with Wendy Lee. So
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up right there. Manager, do you
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: know whether the police were recording their interview with you? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: have you ever heard the recording? Answer, no. Manager, did
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: you ever receive notification that you were named as a
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: victim in any of Jeffrey Epstein's criminal cases? Answer, no. Manager,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: other than the 1500 from Wendy Lee, did you receive
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: any other money for making any statements? Answer, no. Manager,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: did you give an interview to Virginia's attorneys? Answer, yes. McCauley,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: you can say yes. Manager, when was that? Answer, two
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: weeks ago roughly. Manager, and who was present during that meeting? Answer,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: my lawyers and several others. Manager, several other what? Answer, lawyers,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know who they all are. Manager,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: so Macaulay, you recall being there? Answer, yes. Manager, Ms. Schultz,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: you recall being there? Answer, no. I didn't learn it, no.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: You weren't there? Next question, Brad Edwards. Edwards' answer is yes.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Next one, Paul Cassell. Answer, maybe. I don't remember. Manager,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: and was that interview recorded? Answer, I don't know. It
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: may have been. I don't remember. Manager, did anyone ask
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: your permission to record it? Answer, maybe. I don't recall. Manager,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: were you shown any documents during that meeting? Answer, flight logs. Manager,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: any other documents? Answer, no. Manager, what did Ms. McCauley
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: or Mr. Edwards or any of the other lawyers say
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: to you about Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer, they just asked impressions.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: They never said anything about her. Manager, were you shown
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: a copy of any report that came out of the interview? Answer,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: which interview? Manager, the one with Virginia's attorneys? McCauley, objection. Schoberg, no. Manager,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: you testified earlier about an incident with a camera that
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine Maxwell had given you. I want to ask you
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: some questions about that. Answer, sure. Manager, do you know
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: when that was? Answer, that was in 2002. Manager, and
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: why does that date stick out? Answer, because I was living,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: where I was living specifically, and where I had the
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: phone call. Manager, tell me what you remember about the conversation. Answer,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I had been over to the house prior messaging Jeffrey
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and I got a phone call from her and she
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: told me she had a camera for me for my
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: photography class but yet she couldn't give it to me
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: yet because during the massage I didn't finish my job
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: and she had to finish it for me. Manager, did
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: she say what she meant? Answer, no, but I knew. Manager,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: was there any other time that you had discussed with
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: her finishing your job? Answer, not that I recall. Manager,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: any other time you just recall discussing with her anything
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: about your sexual contact with Jeffrey? Macaulay, objection. Witness, no. Manager,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: did she give you the camera? Answer, I did get
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the camera. Manager, okay, when did she give you the camera? Answer,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I guess the next time I went to the house. Manager,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and what was said at that time? Answer, I honestly
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: don't know that she handed it to me. I remember
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: it being there for me. Manager, what kind of camera
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: was it? Answer, a Canon Rebel 35mm. Manager, do you
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: still have it? Answer, I do not. No one uses
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: 35mm anymore. Manager, what's that? Answer, no one uses 35mm anymore. Manager,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: back to the cell phone conversation. Answer, right. Manager, was
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: it your birthday? Answer, it was just I was taking
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: a photography class and I needed a camera. Manager, do
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: you know her? To be a photographer? Answer, not a professional,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: but I knew she was interested in photography. Manager, did
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: you see her with a camera? Answer, yes. Manager, did
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: you see her taking photographs of nude people? Answer, no. Manager,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: did she ever ask you to take a photograph of
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: a semi-clad or naked? Answer, no. Did she ever ask
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: to take a photo of me? Manager, semi-clad or naked? Answer, no. Manager,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: did she ever ask to take a photograph of you
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: at any point? Answer, I don't remember. Manager, did you
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: tell anyone else about this conversation? You couldn't give it
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: to me now because I hadn't finished my job? Answer, no. Manager,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going to reserve the rest of my
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: time for recross. So you all, I guess, can take
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: a break. Mr. Lewis, can I have one second? Manager, sure. McCauley,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: we can go off the record. Videographer, off the record
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: at 12.09. After the recess, they come back and it
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: looks like manager has some more questions. Manager, sorry, just
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: a couple more questions. It sounds like there may have
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: been an additional telephone conference that one might construe as
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: a meeting with attorneys. Is that true? Answer, correct. Manager,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: all right, tell me about that. Answer, they just wanted to,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: we had met prior. and they just wanted to clarify
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: a few things and ask a few more questions. Manager, okay,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: what did they clarify? Answer, any other specific times that
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I had, you know, seen Ghislaine naked, or if I had,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: you know, had any sexual massages with her, any type
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: of questions like that. Manager, okay, and what did you
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: tell them about having any sexual massages with Ghislaine? Answer,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: that I was not asked to do to perform anything
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: with her. Manager, and you did not? Answer, correct. Manager,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: and what did you tell them about specific times of
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: seeing Ghislaine naked? Answer, only when she would swim or
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: get a massage. Manager, and that swimming you mentioned earlier,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: skinny dipping? Answer, correct. Manager, and I think you said
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: perhaps some other time that you saw her jump off
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: a dock and swim? Answer, correct, yes. Manager, in the nude? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: and then you saw her under a towel during massages? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: is there any other time you recall seeing Ghislaine Maxwell naked? Answer, no. Manager,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: is there anything else about that telephone conference with the
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: attorneys to clarify that you recall the topics? Answer, no. Manager,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: all right, thank you. I think we can go off
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: the record now. And when they come back, it's Sigrid
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: McCauley now recrossing Johanna Schoberg. So let's get right to it. McCauley, Johanna,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a couple of questions and
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: they're follow-up questions. When Laura was talking to you, She
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: mentioned some names of famous people that you, most of
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: which you had not met. Did you ever meet anybody
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: famous when you were with Jeffrey Epstein? Answer, Michael Jackson. Macaulay,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: oh really? And where was that? Answer, at his house
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: in Palm Beach, at Jeffrey's house in Palm Beach. Macaulay,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: did you massage him? Answer, I did not. Macaulay, anybody
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: else you remember? I know you mentioned David Copperfield earlier.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Anybody else? Answer, no, I'd remember that. Macaulay, I believe
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: you also testified that you had never had a massage
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: before you started working with Jeffrey and Ghislaine. Is that correct? Answer.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I don't recall having a massage before then. Macaulay, and
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I think you said on the first day when you
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: were doing the clerical work, Maxwell mentioned that you might
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: be able to get a massage. Is that correct? Answer. Yes. Macaulay,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: did you tell Maxwell that you had never had a
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: massage at that point? Answer. I don't remember. Macaulay, Did
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you remember telling Jeffrey that you had never had a massage? Answer, no. Macaulay,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: and then when you were talking about the massage, the
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: first massage, when you were being in the room with
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey and Emmy? Answer, uh-huh. Macaulay, and I know you
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: said that Emmy was naked or took off her clothes
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: at some point. Answer, uh-huh. Macaulay, and then you laid
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: on the table, and then you changed positions with her.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Is that what happened? Answer, yes. I don't remember the sequence,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: but At one point she was, I was, and Jeffrey was. Macaulay,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: and in the time when there was a changeover, for example,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: when you're on the table and Emmy is not on
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: the table and Jeffrey is not on the table, did
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Emmy at that point remain naked or did she actually
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: stop and get dressed and continue massaging? Answer, I don't
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: recall her getting dressed, but I would probably remember if
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: she massaged naked. Macaulay, do you know if Jeffrey remained
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: naked during his massage? Answer, he was never like naked
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: standing up. He always covered himself with a towel. Macaulay,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: I believe I asked this, but I just want to
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: clarify to make sure that I did. Did Maxwell ever
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: ask you to bring other girls over to or for Jeffrey? Answer, yes. Macaulay, yes. Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: and what did you, did you do anything in response
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: to that? Answer, I did bring one girl named, no, redacted.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: It was some girl named redacted that I had worked
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: with at a restaurant. And I recall Ghislaine giving me
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: money to bring her over. However, they never called her
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: to come. Macaulay, and then I believe you mentioned that
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: one of your physical fitness instructors, you brought a physical
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: fitness instructor. Was that correct? Correct. Macaulay, and what did
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: she do? Answer, she gave him, like, a training session twice. Macaulay, twice?
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Did anything sexual in nature happen during the session? Answer,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: at one point, he lifted up her shirt and exposed
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: her bra, and she grabbed it and pulled it down. Macaulay,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: anything else? Answer, that was the conversation that he had
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: told her that he had taken this girl's virginity, the
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: girl by the pool. Macaulay, okay, did Maxwell ever say
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: to you that it takes the pressure off of her
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: to have other girls around? Answer, she implied that, yes. Macaulay,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: in what way? Answer, sexually. Macaulay, and earlier Laura asked you,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I believe, if Maxwell ever asked you to perform any
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: sexual acts, and I believe your testimony was no, but
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: then you also previously stated that during the camera incident
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: that Maxwell had talked to you about not finishing the job.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Did you understand not finishing the job, meaning bringing Jeffrey
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: to orgasm? Manager, objection, leading, inform. Macaulay, I'm sorry, Johanna,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: let me correct that question. What did you understand Maxwell
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: to mean when she said you hadn't finished the job
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: with respect to the camera? Manager, objection, leading, inform. Answer,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: she implied that I had not brought him to orgasm. Macaulay,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: so is it fair to say that Mac expected you
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: to perform sexual acts when you were massaging Jeffrey, manager, objection, leading, form,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: and foundation? Johanna, I can answer. Yes, I took that
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: conversation to mean that it was expected of me. Macaulay,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and then you mentioned, I believe, When you were testifying
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: earlier that Jeffrey told you a story about sex on
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: the plane, what was that about? Manager, objection, hearsay. Schoberg,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: he told me one time Emmy was sleeping on the
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: plane and they were getting ready to land. And he
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: went up and woke her up and she thought that
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: he meant he wanted a blowjob. So she started to
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: unzip his pants and he said, no, no, no, no, no.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: You just have to be awake for the landing. McCauley,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: do you recall witnessing any sexual acts on the plane? Answer, no. Macaulay,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: did Emmy ever talk to you about performing sexual acts
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: on the plane? Answer, no. Macaulay, we looked earlier at
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the police report, and I just want to clarify. You
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: identified some areas where there were discrepancies in that report,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: and you can take another look at it if you want,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: but other than the discrepancies you pointed out, Is that
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: a recollection of what you remember telling the detective? Answer. Yes. Manager. Objection.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Outside the scope of cross. McCauley. You mentioned that there
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: was a time when you noticed that Maxwell was around
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: a little bit less. Answer. Uh-huh. McCauley. And I believe
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: you said that was during the middle of the time
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: you were with Jeffrey. Do you remember approximately when that
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: was year-wise? Answer. I don't. I would say it was
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: probably sometime between 2003 and 2004. Macaulay, and what made
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: you think that? Answer, I just saw her less and
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: less at the house. Macaulay, were you there more at
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: the house during that time period? Answer, no, not necessarily.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: It's just at the beginning, she was around a lot.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: And then I would see her occasionally without him. Though
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: one time we spent a few days together in 2006,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: she wasn't there at all. Macaulay, so you saw her
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: in the, is it fair to say, that you saw
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: her in the 2005-2006 timeframe? Answer, yes. Macaulay, then we
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: were talking about the photography earlier, about the photographs. Did
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Maxwell ever ask you to take nude photos of yourself
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: for Jeffrey? Answer, she asked me to take photos of
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: myself for Jeffrey, yes. Macaulay, and did you do that? Answer,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I did not. Macaulay, and the photos that were around,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: that were in the bathroom that you mentioned a couple
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: of times? Places that were photos of you, who took those? Answer,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: he did. Macaulay, and you were talking about the Palm
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Beach house? and describing an area where there were just
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of photographs, is it fair to say that
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: there could have been nude photographs amongst those photos that
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: you saw? Answer, yes. Alright folks, we're going to wrap
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: this one up right here, and in the next episode
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: we'll pick up where we left off. All of the
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: the description box. What's up everyone, and welcome back to
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: the Epstein Chronicles! we're going to pick up where we
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: left off with the Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's just
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: get right back to it. Macaulay, and earlier you testified
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: that you don't have any knowledge of what happened behind
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: closed doors, but you also said that Jeffrey had told
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: you what other girls did for him and that he
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: wanted you to do those things for him. Is it
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: fair to say that you knew that other girls were
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: performing sexual acts? Answer, yes. Manager Objection Foundation and Forum. Macaulay,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: And I know you mentioned previously that your relationship and
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: interaction with them progressed over time. Did there come a
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: time when you were expected to have sexual intercourse with Jeffrey? Answer, yes. Macaulay,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: and when was that? Answer, 2005. Macaulay, that's it. I
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: just do want to also put on the record that
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: we're designating the testimony as confidential under the protective order.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Further Examination by Ms. Menninger Manager, okay, you just testified
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: that you have knowledge. You had knowledge that of what
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey was doing behind closed doors with other girls. Was
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: that your testimony? Answer, based on what he had told me. Manager, okay,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: so Jeffrey told you things that he had done with
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: other girls? Answer, yes. Manager, you did not observe any
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: of those things. Answer, no. Manager, you did not talk
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: to any of those girls about what they had done
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: with Jeffrey behind closed doors? Macaulay, objection. Manager, Correct. Answer. Correct. Manager,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: the only source of knowledge you have is based on
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: what Jeffrey told you he had done with other girls? Answer. Correct.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: To this, McCauley objects. Manager, you said that there were
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: possibly nude photos amongst the other photos that you saw
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: on various walls at the Palm Beach house, correct? Answer. Correct. Manager,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: none of them appeared pornographic? Answer. No. Manager, you didn't
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: see any fully frontally nude photographs, correct? Answer, no, not
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: that I recall. Manager, and you don't recall seeing any
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: girls that appeared to be underage, correct? Answer, no. Manager,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: you said Ghislaine asked you to take photos of yourself
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: for Jeffrey, correct? Answer, correct. Manager, did she ask you
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: to take any nude photographs for yourself, or just a
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: photograph of yourself? Answer, a nude photograph of myself. Manager,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: what exactly did she say to you? Answer, I don't
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: remember exactly, but I know that I never felt comfortable.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: I would have felt fine taking photos of myself, my face,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: but I knew I was never comfortable with it because
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: I had to take photos of my body. And I
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: also didn't know how to take a photo from standing behind.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: You have to have someone else involved. Manager, that's my question.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: How would you take a nude photograph of yourself? Answer exactly.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Someone else would have to do it. Manager, do you
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: recall any of the particulars of what she said to
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: you that led you to believe she wanted you to
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: do that? Answer, no, just asking for the photos. Manager,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: do you know when in your time there? Answer, it
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: was near the beginning because that's when I was interested
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: in the photography. Manager, was it in the context of
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: your discussion of your photography class? Answer, no. Manager, was
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: it in the context of anything? Answer, about the camera
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: she had bought for me. Manager, what did she say
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: in relationship to the camera? That she bought for you
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: and taking photographs of you? Answer. Just that Jeffrey would
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: like to have some photos of me and she asked
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: me to take photos of myself. Manager, what did you say? Answer.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: I don't remember saying no, but I never ended up
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: following through. I think I tried once. Manager, this was
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: the pre-selfie era, correct? Answer. Exactly. Manager, I want to
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: go back to this. You testified to two things just
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: now with Sigrid that you said were implied to you. Answer, okay. Maxwell,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: the first one was it would take pressure off of
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Maxwell to have more girls around. Answer, right. Meninger, what
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: exactly did Maxwell say to you that led you to
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: believe that was her implication? Answer, she said she doesn't
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: have the time or the desire to pleasure him as
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: much as he needs, and that's why there were other
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: girls around. Meninger, and did she refer specifically to any
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: of the other girls? Answer, no. Manager, did she talk
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: about underage girls? Answer, no. Manager, was she talking about
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: massage therapists? Answer, not specifically. Manager, okay, there were other
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: girls in the house that were not massage therapists, correct? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Nadia is another person that was around, correct? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: there were other people she traveled with? Answer, uh-huh. Macaulay, objection. Manager, no. Correct. Answer. Correct. Manager.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Other girls. Answer. Yes. Manager. Adults. Answer. Yes. Manager. When
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: I say girl, I really mean woman. Correct. Answer. Correct. Manager.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: There were other women around who hung out with Jeffrey,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: and you don't know what they did behind closed doors. Correct. Answer. Correct. Manager.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: So when you heard the implications that she wanted other
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: girls around to take the pressure off of her sexually,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: in your mind, that meant other adult women. that she
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: had in her life, correct? McCauley, objection. Witness, correct. Doing
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: what I was expected to do in a massage, you know? Manager,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: and Ghislaine didn't have anything to do with you bringing
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: this woman over for a physical workout with Jeffrey, correct? Answer, correct. Manager,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: she asked you to bring another girl to perform massages
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: at the home. Answer, yes. Well, she was always asking
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: if I knew anyone else. And so I brought this
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: one girl that I didn't even know I worked with
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: her at a restaurant. So I didn't care what she
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: thought of me if anything happened. And so, but it
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: never turned into anything. Manager, she was an adult. Answer,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: she was an adult. Manager, working at a restaurant with you. Answer, yes. Manager,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: what restaurant was that? Answer, it's a restaurant that's closed.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: It's called Redacted. Manager, you were asked about the famous
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: people you said you met, Michael Jackson? Answer, yes. Manager,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: but you did not give him a massage? Answer, no. Manager,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: there were other famous people, perhaps who were around Jeffrey's home,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: that you didn't meet, correct? Answer, correct. Manager, do you
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: know whether Virginia Roberts has told the truth about the
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: age she was when she met Ghislaine Maxwell? McCauley, objection.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Exceeds scope of the cross. The witness, I don't have
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: any idea what she told them in terms of her age. Manager,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: do you know if Virginia Roberts is telling the truth
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: about whether she spent her sweet 16th birthday with Jeffery?
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: and Ghislaine Maxwell? McCauley, objection. Schoberg, I don't know anything
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: about that. Manager, do you know whether Virginia Roberts is
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: telling the truth about whether Ghislaine Maxwell sexually assaulted her
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: on her first day on the job? McCauley, objection. Schoberg,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: I have no knowledge of that. Meninger, do you have
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: any knowledge of whether Virginia is telling the truth about Virginia,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: excuse me, about Ghislaine Maxwell forcing Virginia Roberts to go
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: down on her? McCauley, objection. Witness, no knowledge. Meninger, do
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: you have any knowledge about whether Virginia Roberts is telling
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: the truth about whether Ghislaine Maxwell forced her to participate
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: in orgies with other women? Miss McCauley, objection. Witness, no knowledge. Manager,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: do you have any knowledge about whether Virginia Roberts is
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: telling the truth about whether Ghislaine Maxwell directed her to
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: have sex with Prince Andrew? Ms. McCauley, objection. Witness, no,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: only based on what I've read in the media. Manager.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: And Alan Dershowitz. McCauley. Objection. Witness. The same. Manager. Prime Ministers. McCauley. Objection. Schoberg. No. Manager.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: Do you have any knowledge about whether Virginia Roberts is
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: telling the truth about foreign presidents? Ms. McCauley. Objection. The witness.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: No knowledge. Manager. Do you know whether Virginia Roberts is
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: telling the truth About Ghislaine Maxwell forcing her to participate
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: in an orgy with Prince Andrew and other underage girls
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: on the island? Macaulay, objection. Witness, no knowledge. Manager, did
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine Maxwell ever ask you to have her baby? Macaulay, objection. Schoberg, no. Manager,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: no further questions. Macaulay, thank you for your time. We
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: are done. Macaulay, we are off the record. Videographer, the
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: time is 1-11. This concludes the video deposition. Off the record.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Alright folks, so that's going to conclude our look at
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: the Johanna Schoberg deposition. And obviously with all the documents
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: that are dumping and have been dumped, we have our
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: work cut out for us. So like when you're eating
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: any elephant... You just got to eat it one bite
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: at a time. And that's what we're going to continue
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: to do. We'll continue to add these documents to the
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: catalog so that they're available to you all. And so
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: that all of you have the context that's necessary to
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: understand what in the hell happened here and what in
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: the hell is still happening here. All right, folks, that's
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: going to do it for this one. All of the
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: the description box.