Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to James Lark about his choice of The Invasion (6/8)

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Talks to James Lark about his choice of The Invasion (6/8) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:37
  Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:42
  commentary podcast. I am here with Joe Ford.
• 0:45
  Hello, Joe. Hello.
• 0:47
  And I'm James, sometimes known as John Arnold, but you bitch.
• 0:53
  But today I should be going into my my username of James Lark.
• 0:56
  Sorry for the disappointment to the John Arnold fans out there.
• 1:00
  And we are discussing Doctor Who in an exciting adventure with
• 1:04
  the Invasion I. Don't think I've ever brought
• 1:07
  together you and John Arnold in one call, have I, you?
• 1:10
  Haven't. No, I don't.
• 1:11
  I'm not sure we could take hand of the smarts I.
• 1:14
  I would feel quite intimidated by by that.
• 1:16
  Prospect. I have to get strictly going,
• 1:18
  you know, with the two of you, I.
• 1:20
  Could, but I thought you were going to suggest between the two
• 1:22
  of us, vote for your favourites? Yeah, which one do you want on
• 1:27
  No, let's not start doing that. Fucking hell, fandom is in
• 1:31
  enough disarray as it is, all right?
• 1:36
  James, I made a quite a big statement at the start of the
• 1:38
  last episode that I think this might be one of the best single
• 1:42
  episodes of Doctor Who You. Did, yes.
• 1:45
  I think it starts brilliantly, I think it ends amazingly, and
• 1:50
  everything in between is just beautifully executed.
• 1:55
  I mean, I think that the music is best in this episode as well.
• 1:59
  It's all build up an atmosphere, isn't it?
• 2:01
  And for me, there's some very exciting, I mean, Camfield
• 2:06
  really knows how to shoot Cybermen and we and we get to
• 2:08
  see a lot of them on screen at last.
• 2:10
  But for me, the scene that I used to just love was the scene
• 2:15
  where Tobias Vaughan is looking out over this darkened skyline
• 2:23
  of London from his posh thing. He's he's standing there very,
• 2:27
  very still, like a man who knows he's about to take over a place.
• 2:32
  And it's that anticipation and that build up.
• 2:35
  And I think we we really do get a sense of scale by the time it
• 2:42
  takes for the thing to happen that we know is going to happen
• 2:46
  pretty much from the start of the episode.
• 2:48
  And you don't. You don't.
• 2:49
  There's not a lot of fade outs in Doctor Who is that Usually
• 2:52
  it's just cut from 1 scene to another, but there's a fade out
• 2:55
  there into there is. And then just a load of scenes
• 2:59
  of people going about their business and then that noise
• 3:01
  starts kicking in and there's just such a sense of of ramping
• 3:06
  up at that point, isn't there? Yeah, the climax, of course,
• 3:10
  being punching out of the sewers and coming down the steps.
• 3:14
  Which is a moment which I mean, I think probably we need to
• 3:22
  maybe kind of revisit 15 year old James Lark and his romantic
• 3:25
  entanglements and just consider why, why it didn't quite work
• 3:29
  for him first time, I think because I'd seen that clip so
• 3:31
  many times by that point. It was on the IT was on the
• 3:35
  Silver Nemesis making of video did.
• 3:39
  You see it in a book first in like one of those sixties 70s.
• 3:43
  You know that that one of those books?
• 3:45
  I'm not sure I did. I think I saw it in clip shows
• 3:48
  first. OK.
• 3:51
  I'd love to be able to record what the chemical reaction is
• 3:54
  when you see. So what happens in your brain
• 3:57
  when you see something like that for the first time?
• 3:59
  Yeah, I think here's here's the thing, and I might have said
• 4:03
  this before when I bought this video, first of all, I thought
• 4:07
  that was the going to be the prelude to scene after scene of
• 4:10
  Cybermen go. You know, I wanted Dalek
• 4:15
  invasion of Earth type epic scenes of invasion or spearhead
• 4:20
  from space kind of shooting in the streets.
• 4:22
  And actually, all you get is what I'd already seen in the
• 4:25
  clip shows, and I mean you. Do get that in the last episode.
• 4:29
  You do get that in the last episode.
• 4:31
  You don't get the invite. What I what I wanted was London
• 4:33
  iconography. I wanted Cybermen on Westminster
• 4:36
  Bridge and it doesn't give you that what I had failed to really
• 4:40
  appreciate the first time round. And This is why watching things
• 4:43
  in the clips before you see them in context is not always a good
• 4:46
  thing, is that it is that thing that I was just saying about the
• 4:49
  anticipation. It's about the build up and as
• 4:51
  the climax to a build up rather than the beginning of an off
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  screen invasion that's absolutely triumphant and and a
• 5:00
  phenomenal cliffhanger and iconic for all the right
• 5:03
  reasons. Worth remembering as well that
• 5:05
  you know one of the big triumphs of your childhood was that movie
• 5:09
  2150 AD. And whilst there isn't London
• 5:13
  landmarks isn't it, it does a good job of tricking you into
• 5:15
  thinking you've seen a large scale epic invasion of London.
• 5:22
  Can I give you another insight into my troubled youth?
• 5:25
  Please not borrowing money again, are you?
• 5:30
  Oh, no. Things.
• 5:31
  Things I. Sounded like mixed CD then.
• 5:33
  You're not borrowing money again, are you?
• 5:35
  Things take a dramatic turn, actually, in church.
• 5:39
  Oh boy. Oh, this sounds dramatic.
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  Go on. No, I was so in in a in a church
• 5:43
  service with Sally the girl and it says here in the piece.
• 5:48
  Now for those of you who are not Anglican, that's where a lot of
• 5:52
  people go around and shake hands.
• 5:54
  It's not handshaking is involved in the piece.
• 5:56
  Mia, that's a different girl. Hi, Mia, are you listening?
• 5:59
  Probably not, Mia said. Has she said yes yet?
• 6:03
  I shook my head. Mia said See, I just, Mia said.
• 6:09
  Sally was confused and I should be forceful.
• 6:14
  Forceful. So let's see how.
• 6:16
  What does that mean? In the last 10 minutes of the
• 6:18
  service, I was sitting on my own with Sally in a Pew, and I
• 6:21
  really wanted to address the subject straight, but I just
• 6:25
  couldn't. Then I decided to start singing
• 6:28
  the hymn. Go on.
• 6:33
  I shall go on. So I'm I, I've mouthed the first
• 6:37
  word of the verse, which happened to start with the
• 6:40
  letter TI took. AI also took a deep breath of
• 6:43
  air at the moment, and a weird sound came out.
• 6:46
  I suppose it may have sounded like a SOB, because Sally said,
• 6:50
  what's the matter? And I decided not to beat around
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  the Bush and said, why won't you say yes?
• 6:57
  All right, yes. Then she added, You're so
• 7:01
  paranoid. Had I heard correctly?
• 7:03
  Had she actually meant yes, I will go out with you?
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  My head was in a whirl when Church finished.
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  I said when? When you said yes, did you mean
• 7:19
  yes? What did you think I meant?
• 7:21
  Sally asked. Yes, I won't go out with you.
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  But then she went to talk to an old friend she hadn't seen for
• 7:26
  years. But who she said was there, I
• 7:28
  don't know. I mean, straight away it's it's
• 7:30
  off to a bad start. The diary that diary entry
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  finishes. I'm happier than I ever was when
• 7:38
  any old Dalek films were on TV. There you go, we've managed to
• 7:45
  quantify the happiness that. That's happy films.
• 7:50
  Can bring to you. Yeah, though which which stood
• 7:53
  by me for longer, eh? Well, well, you don't know.
• 7:56
  I mean, who? Who knows, Maybe I'm still going
• 7:58
  out with Sally. I like to think you know.
• 8:00
  You know though, is Sally the one that was recording the
• 8:03
  episodes for you? Well, yeah.
• 8:04
  Well, we, we may, we, we'll maybe touch on that again.
• 8:07
  Well, no, I was just going to say I like to think that
• 8:10
  actually in doing that for you, you know, she got a sort of
• 8:13
  little taste of Doctor Who and unbeknownst to you, even though
• 8:16
  your lives diverged greatly, dramatically.
• 8:27
  That's Out There somewhere is a Doctor Who podcast hosted by
• 8:33
  Sally. Do you, I mean, do you think
• 8:35
  she's there? I'd.
• 8:35
  I'd like to think so, yes. Probably playing to a completely
• 8:39
  different audience, or maybe John Arnold's on her podcast.
• 8:43
  Let us know if that's. Sally, if you're out there, get
• 8:47
  in touch, All right? Your entire childhood has been
• 8:49
  spelled out. These four, these 8 episodes.
• 8:53
  Oh I love your diary so much. Will you do a sequel series
• 8:55
  please on YouTube? I know it takes.
• 8:56
  Something, yeah, OK, one of next got a bit of time.
• 8:59
  Thank you very much. I might need to crowdfund it or
• 9:01
  something just to. Oh, I'll fund it.
• 9:03
  All from the diary. All right, I'll use all the
• 9:05
  hamster money. This is what your money's going
• 9:07
  on, folks. What are we here for?
• 9:10
  Oh yeah, the. Invasion.
• 9:11
  Oh yeah, The invasion. OK Episode 6, Episode 6.
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  One of the greatest 23 minutes of television ever. 23 minutes.
• 9:19
  What shall I count this in? Let's do that, yeah.
• 9:21
  OK, then in 321, off we go. What a bit of music there for a
• 9:30
  second. This is the episode that starts
• 9:32
  with that. Fabulous.
• 9:34
  I'm going to try and do it. Down, down, down.
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  I love that. Music.
• 9:42
  Oh, spare isn't it? But but brilliant.
• 9:45
  It's such a distinctive score. What's the instrument that
• 9:47
  comes? In then that sort of whining, I
• 9:50
  hear that film. Oh, I'm not sure about the
• 9:52
  whining. One down now is a do.
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  You hear the music or. You.
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  I can't. I might.
• 9:57
  I might have to turn it up a bit.
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  Hang on there. We go, they always do this,
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  don't they? They always refilm.
• 10:04
  They refilm the cliffhanger. Say Benson's out there.
• 10:09
  There's a that. Now there's some sort of water
• 10:10
  tower or something in the background.
• 10:11
  It should be very easy to find out where this is back against
• 10:15
  the wall. I'm, I'm still studying the
• 10:16
  geography of this, because then the thing right, this is, this
• 10:19
  is where it becomes problematic. The the Cyberman The Cyberman
• 10:22
  has walked past them. Yeah.
• 10:26
  Now these soldiers are coming down the same manhole cover
• 10:30
  that. That's right.
• 10:31
  Yeah. Oh.
• 10:33
  Wait, they? Go What way are they going to?
• 10:35
  Turn right. But Jamie is sorry and that went
• 10:38
  left, you see. You see, it's it's not quite
• 10:41
  consistent, is it? I.
• 10:42
  Mean, I think we don't need to think about this stuff too much.
• 10:45
  It's the sort of thing that I think about too much.
• 10:49
  Do you have a lot of pleasure watching television?
• 10:55
  Trust me, some of the comments, OK on hamster you, you ain't got
• 10:58
  no troubles, all right? You.
• 11:00
  Watch television. Oh.
• 11:03
  Dear Anyway, we're in a situation of extreme peril.
• 11:07
  It's very, I mean I. The sewers.
• 11:08
  It's such a Moody location, but it is.
• 11:11
  Yeah, To be fair to count Cam Field, I, I think it's all it's
• 11:16
  we're picturing this as a single corridor, I think because that's
• 11:20
  probably what it was. Oh, this is this is it, right.
• 11:22
  How did this, how did those sidemen get there?
• 11:26
  Because they were. They were in front of them.
• 11:28
  I have an answer for you. Go on.
• 11:30
  They're different Cybermen. There's others coming up the
• 11:33
  rear. OK, there's something a bit
• 11:37
  funny about them. They look brilliant and we get,
• 11:41
  we get a little bit of talking now, little bit of talking.
• 11:47
  And Canfield just knows how to direct this stuff in a minute
• 11:50
  when the bomb gets thrown and it's all in silhouette and smoke
• 11:54
  as the sidemen are sort of flailing.
• 11:56
  About, Yeah, Right, OK, right there, there, there.
• 11:59
  How did that sidemen get behind them?
• 12:02
  Because that was coming from the other direction they should
• 12:05
  have. Snuck up on them even though he
• 12:06
  was screaming. That's that that completely for
• 12:10
  me that makes no sense that sideman was coming from a
• 12:13
  different direction. We've we've broken the 180°
• 12:16
  rule. It's in my head.
• 12:19
  It make it makes no sense at all.
• 12:20
  How did that that sideman has crossed the line of the camera.
• 12:23
  Thank. You very much continuity advise
• 12:26
  now. This has been downgraded away
• 12:28
  from one of the best 23 minutes of Doctor Who of all time.
• 12:31
  Well, I'm just I'm when when Ben Cook re splices this, maybe he
• 12:36
  can just reverse some shots and put that sideman in the right
• 12:38
  position. So it makes sense for me.
• 12:41
  Don't listen to this shit. What are you doing now?
• 12:46
  The bit in a minute, right? So after the grenades are going
• 12:48
  off, the guns are being shot, the sidemen are still coming.
• 12:51
  They literally just get. Up why are they coming from that
• 12:53
  direction They were they they turned left that's.
• 12:58
  Fine, but it is. Exciting.
• 13:02
  It is exciting. No, it's geographically
• 13:05
  confusing. Look, it's still coming.
• 13:09
  Yeah, it's going. It's going the other direction
• 13:12
  again. This is so great.
• 13:13
  This reminds me of a bit in 2 minutes Simon.
• 13:15
  You know when the side must punch it away at the manhole
• 13:17
  cover. Yes, but it's but it's better
• 13:21
  than that because it's because that manhole cover has got real
• 13:24
  weight hasn't. It but then look at the shot
• 13:26
  that Canfield does from below of the fella smacking the side.
• 13:30
  That's amazing and it's and it really does look like he's
• 13:33
  smacking it as well. Dynamic it's it's just wonderful
• 13:37
  got it and then they throw a grenade down on top of him I.
• 13:41
  Mean what? What is also great is that the
• 13:43
  music is, oh, it's an I think it's an oboe Joe.
• 13:46
  The the thing going. Oh, is it OK?
• 13:50
  It's. Very, I think it's an oboe over
• 13:52
  the over this sort of plucked bass, but it's but it's very,
• 13:56
  very sparse. It's it's spooky music.
• 13:58
  And a lesser, A lesser composer would have written something a
• 14:01
  bit up tempo for that. Yeah.
• 14:02
  You get some stringers coming in, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding,
• 14:05
  Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding. Yeah, but the music is doing the
• 14:09
  thing that the music is now doing.
• 14:11
  The anticipation as well. It's a waiting game now, and
• 14:14
  it's the. Last thing you need is for me to
• 14:15
  be singing the music throughout this thing.
• 14:19
  John Levine was appalled. You know when he threw that bomb
• 14:22
  in there? He goes, look how mentally I
• 14:25
  throw that in there like a right girl, you know, bless him.
• 14:31
  I'm not sure you've got many options when you're dropping a
• 14:33
  grenade down a manhole cover. There's no, it's very, there's
• 14:36
  no Butch way of doing that. It's.
• 14:37
  Very cool. You remember you was sort of
• 14:39
  telling me off about Ice in the Battlefield episode we had about
• 14:43
  her going around with bombs and things.
• 14:45
  I mean, throwing bombs down manholes on Cybermen.
• 14:47
  It's coming up. That's very cool.
• 14:51
  Oh, this is oh, we've got some photos.
• 14:55
  Oh. Charming.
• 14:56
  I don't know why I'm bothered. Do you know I say that quite a
• 15:01
  lot to Mark, you know, when I do the chores.
• 15:02
  So he looks around and goes. Yeah.
• 15:05
  You see she's she's not turned her ISO up high enough that
• 15:08
  that's why they look so blurry I mean.
• 15:11
  But do you know what they do look like?
• 15:13
  Those shitty pictures, they, you know.
• 15:15
  If I spot a sake. They do.
• 15:17
  They do. Oh, charming.
• 15:19
  I don't know why I bothered. I do genuinely think I know you
• 15:23
  find her a bit irritating. I think the story loses
• 15:26
  something if you take her out of it.
• 15:27
  You don't have that sort of normal perspective in it then.
• 15:32
  That was a lovely pool focus as well, sitting up into shop.
• 15:36
  What were we saying about Packer being camp hands on hips?
• 15:41
  It's a it's a It's between Packer and John Levine in this
• 15:44
  episode. Who can mince the most I.
• 15:46
  Don't know. Packer's got it, hacker.
• 15:50
  In a few hours time the invasion will be complete.
• 15:53
  Oh, look. He's biting his nails, right?
• 15:58
  He knows the camera. I wonder if he's anxious at all.
• 16:04
  Now, come on. I need to dive back into these
• 16:06
  questions. All right.
• 16:08
  Kevin Stoney's stillness at this point is is selling the moment a
• 16:13
  great deal. And actually I think that the
• 16:19
  the jittery Packer helps as well.
• 16:22
  I'm. Not quite sure how you're going
• 16:24
  to take to the Oh no wait, we need to talk about this scene.
• 16:27
  We really do. Yes, it's very disturbing.
• 16:31
  It's really, I don't, isn't it? This scene?
• 16:35
  Especially when he smacks the professor.
• 16:38
  Yeah, after sort of goading him to shoot him.
• 16:45
  And I think that Edward Burnham was really he sold the mental
• 16:51
  torture of this character already.
• 16:54
  So we're looking at a man who he's very convincingly broken
• 16:58
  already, isn't he? And I like, what's the scientist
• 17:02
  next to him called? Gregory.
• 17:04
  Gregory that he's really concerned for him as well, like
• 17:07
  they're both sort of too terrified to say no to Vaughan.
• 17:14
  But my dear fellow, she is free. That's that's a cruel thing as
• 17:16
  well, isn't it? The in a episode that's full of
• 17:21
  great, great shots, the shot of Vaughn's chest with the smoking
• 17:26
  bullet holes in him panning up to his face, smiling and
• 17:31
  laughing, it's just chilling. It's so good.
• 17:35
  He's lucky that it's lucky that he didn't shoot him in the head
• 17:39
  though, isn't he? Well, yes.
• 17:42
  Oh no, he might have cyber bits in.
• 17:44
  There maybe he maybe he's got cyber bits in his head as well.
• 17:48
  He'd end up looking like one of those robots that are terminated
• 17:50
  too. Because perhaps I'll use this on
• 17:56
  you at full power. Have we missed a bit?
• 18:01
  No. No, no, this is.
• 18:05
  Are you? That's just how he shoots him.
• 18:07
  Yeah, no, but it just, it just it happened a lot quicker than
• 18:09
  that. This.
• 18:10
  I mean the way his eyes are closed as well.
• 18:13
  It's how he goes in he goes, no, no, let him go, it's fine.
• 18:18
  And then gives him the gun. Michael Storm.
• 18:26
  James. Michael Storm was asked.
• 18:27
  And it's important to the scene. Actually, yeah.
• 18:30
  If Vaughn is only part cybernetic, does he still need
• 18:34
  to eat? Thank you, Michael.
• 18:37
  Well, we can see. We can see the the difference
• 18:42
  between Michael's brain and my brain.
• 18:44
  While I was worrying about camera angles and continuity in
• 18:47
  the sewers, Michael's there going to get up.
• 18:50
  Did he sit down to breakfast this morning?
• 18:53
  He also asked about his toilet habits, but I can't ask you.
• 18:55
  About that, I think like the first thing you would do if you
• 19:00
  were, if you were really bent on becoming a an efficient world
• 19:08
  dominating machine of a person, the first thing you'd eliminate
• 19:13
  is eating, isn't it eating And indeed the toilet bit you would
• 19:18
  just that would be the the tubes running, running through your
• 19:21
  side well. That's what you'd get rid of.
• 19:23
  It's. Not what I would get rid of, but
• 19:25
  then I love eating yeah, I love eating too, but it's not you
• 19:28
  love eating because it's not It's all about emotional expect
• 19:33
  you like, you know, smelling a flower as well enjoying a sunset
• 19:37
  yes I. Do.
• 19:42
  Oh boy, he doesn't. Just oh, the noise, the noise,
• 19:45
  the noise, the noise he makes when he picks that gun up though
• 19:49
  it the the sort of whine. The camera holds on Eddie
• 19:53
  Burnham's face. Yeah, for ages.
• 19:56
  And then he faints. And then the bullet smoking.
• 19:59
  And then the laugh. Fuck, that's so great.
• 20:02
  No sign of the doctor. It's just a great thing.
• 20:05
  It's an extraordinary pair of performances selling something
• 20:10
  that really is kind of grown up. We're going to see much more of
• 20:13
  that in Season 7, I guess. I mean, that's a really good
• 20:16
  scene on the page as well, but with a terrific director
• 20:21
  bringing that to live like I could imagine, I don't know,
• 20:23
  let's just pull a director out of our hats here, Ron Jones or
• 20:26
  Pennant Roberts directing that scene, and I think we may have a
• 20:30
  different affair in our hands. Yes, and imagine Prentice
• 20:36
  Hancock playing Tobias Vaughn and you can see that it might
• 20:40
  not have worked out quite in the same way.
• 20:42
  See, this I like as well. I think it's crazy.
• 20:45
  Like, yeah, OK, the doctor's companion is, is having a sleep.
• 20:49
  But such is the length of this story, it is that we're sort of
• 20:53
  going over into different days and he's he's knackered.
• 20:57
  He's had. A Yeah, yeah.
• 20:58
  A tough time and it also stresses as well that we're
• 21:01
  heading into the evening, which is where we catch up with Vaughn
• 21:06
  for the dawn invasion that comes as well.
• 21:09
  I don't know. I really like it.
• 21:10
  I mean, I, I can imagine a, a better critic than me would say,
• 21:15
  well, people falling asleep in the story, that's not a great.
• 21:17
  Song No, no, I I, but I entirely agree with what you're saying.
• 21:20
  How often do we get to experience it happens again the
• 21:25
  next season in Doctor and the Solarians, where you get to see
• 21:29
  Liz Shaw's exhaustion because they've been up all night trying
• 21:32
  to find a solution to this, to this illness, you know, like.
• 21:35
  Doctor Who is always go, go, go all the time, isn't it?
• 21:39
  It it lends do. You remember that scene where
• 21:43
  where Tegan wakes up in Castro Alva and this is asleep on the
• 21:48
  bed? And it's just a feeling of like,
• 21:50
  yeah, this is like a bit different, you know?
• 21:51
  Yeah, yeah. And of course, I mean, it's
• 21:55
  it's, it's not just people falling asleep because you've
• 21:57
  got different, different it's, it's a, it's a really well
• 22:00
  written scene actually, because there's different things going
• 22:02
  on. And, and even though it's
• 22:04
  treading more to some extent, and all that is happening is
• 22:06
  that the doctor's not finding a solution, him kind of standing
• 22:09
  up and having his little tantrum and screwing up his paper.
• 22:13
  It's different levels of energy. It's and Camfield keeps the
• 22:16
  camera moving. He keeps moving it around the
• 22:20
  room. He's got these three shots.
• 22:22
  He's got close-ups. He's it's never dull.
• 22:26
  It's never dull and it's always. Very clever as well, wasn't he?
• 22:29
  Because he's achieving exactly what he wanted.
• 22:31
  He wanted an ensemble of characters around, so the weight
• 22:34
  was off. The leading Yes, Trouten has
• 22:36
  been in maybe I don't know, 4 minutes worth of material when
• 22:41
  this episode, and yet he feels like he's present very.
• 22:44
  Present and yeah. He's barely featured.
• 22:47
  Yeah. It's because we're surrounded by
• 22:51
  characters we want to be around though, you know?
• 22:54
  But you're not You're not. I've just, I don't know, just
• 22:56
  finding stupid excuses like, oh, that Sea Pods exploded and he's
• 22:59
  asleep over there for an episode.
• 23:01
  Yeah, yeah. No, it lends it a real feeling
• 23:06
  of authenticity and and it all adds to this build up.
• 23:12
  This is, this is. So this is a scene that they
• 23:15
  didn't have a chance to film, isn't it?
• 23:17
  What was it supposed to be? Because I'll tell you now, when
• 23:19
  I was younger, this man's Death Race suddenly cuts to the sewer
• 23:22
  and they murder him and apparently just leave him there
• 23:25
  to roar. Really scared me like.
• 23:27
  It, yeah, it's the bit before that there was, I think, meant
• 23:30
  to be a rescue scene and they just ran out of time.
• 23:33
  So the professor is rescued off screen and Gregory is just
• 23:37
  explaining what happened. And it, it's also, it's already
• 23:41
  a little bit odd because it feels like we've missed quite an
• 23:45
  important bit of action. And then it cuts to his death
• 23:48
  very, very suddenly. It feels especially odd in a
• 23:51
  story where they have shown you a lot of action.
• 23:54
  Yes. And where actually there's been,
• 23:57
  there's been a lot of time and suddenly we're going from from
• 23:59
  that scene to this scene, kill him and and he's gone.
• 24:03
  Yeah, that really that it was the sudden cut from, you know,
• 24:07
  you have no time, Gregory, No time at all.
• 24:10
  And then just the scream. Oh, what's he got in that glass?
• 24:15
  It looks to me like he's got the shape of the glass, suggests
• 24:18
  Brandy. Which would be, I think, what
• 24:22
  you'd give a man who'd been through mental trauma.
• 24:26
  I think poor. Professor Watkins is going to be
• 24:28
  in therapy for some time. Charlton does.
• 24:35
  Tratton is doing a very good job of a lot of lines that are
• 24:38
  unless I've got it. It's actually quite.
• 24:43
  A relief in the last episode where he gets to do a lot of
• 24:46
  running around and all the stuff.
• 24:48
  That he normally. Does, but he's done a lot of
• 24:49
  running around as well. I mean that that 2 episodes of
• 24:52
  of him he's. Looking at.
• 24:54
  Pulled his weight in series season 6.
• 24:57
  Jesus Christ, he gets so much to do.
• 25:00
  They're emotional and of course then this, this, this is a great
• 25:03
  moment and Travan's on on fire. Like Zoe hasn't had much to do
• 25:11
  really for the last couple of episodes, but she really comes
• 25:15
  into her own from this point on I think.
• 25:17
  Yeah, and, and the the crazy kids in the sewer, that's quite
• 25:21
  a that's that's a fun image. The the three of them go down
• 25:25
  together. Jamie's Jamie's contribution to
• 25:28
  the story has pretty much finished from this point on, so
• 25:30
  he. Sleeps here and then he just
• 25:31
  vanishes in the last. We've got a question about that.
• 25:33
  I think. Oh, her life's great though.
• 25:35
  Honestly Jamie side men under London all you can do is think
• 25:40
  about just sleep. I used to like this shot, and
• 25:44
  he's got one in the foreground. Yeah, great.
• 25:46
  Don Harper lovely use of shadow. Why don't why don't their chest
• 25:53
  units light up ever again? Because it's it's so brilliant.
• 25:56
  Can you imagine if if they'd had this these flashing bits in
• 26:00
  attack the sidemen? The one in the front tripped
• 26:03
  just a little bit. Can we go again?
• 26:08
  I couldn't see. Oh, the doctor thinks he's found
• 26:12
  something. No, he's lying.
• 26:14
  Oh, how'd you do, Jamie? Because he's woken up.
• 26:16
  That's. Great.
• 26:20
  OK, Communication satellites around the earth.
• 26:22
  Sad man. Spaceship.
• 26:24
  A hypnotic signal, James. Yes.
• 26:27
  That sounds very 1960s to me it. Does sound quite 1960s do.
• 26:32
  You know, I just recently did A2 op TV.
• 26:34
  You know where the Quark invasion out in space sent their
• 26:38
  hypno ray and told all of Doctor Who's mechanical Martha's evil.
• 26:46
  I'm sorry, is this an off screen story that I'm not familiar
• 26:49
  with? Did Bill Bags do a Quark story?
• 26:52
  It was one of those one page comic countdown.
• 26:56
  I'm surprised, I have to say I'm surprised there was no Quark
• 26:59
  spin off in although no, they were quite litigious that the
• 27:05
  writers, weren't they? Yes, although they gave they
• 27:07
  gave bags to the the rights to the Yeti.
• 27:11
  It's like Hazeman. And Lincoln.
• 27:15
  With a Lethbridge Stewart, I mean.
• 27:17
  Also, what's going on with him right now in the books?
• 27:21
  Oh, here's your scene. Before I just say it's such an,
• 27:24
  it's such a wonderful image and it's the the stillness and the
• 27:28
  way he strolls around. If I was going to invade the
• 27:32
  world, I would absolutely have my headquarters in a tall
• 27:36
  building overlooking London. And I would do this and the the
• 27:40
  eyebrow is now at its full extension.
• 27:44
  It's at its. Apex.
• 27:46
  It's basically a pyramid now. Oh, I love these zooms he does.
• 27:52
  And it's very Paul Bernard in and out of this cyberplanner
• 27:56
  room. I think Camfield is very shrewd
• 28:00
  in the way that he shoots this thing.
• 28:03
  We only very rarely get to see it properly and most of the time
• 28:06
  he's shooting through through it and bits of it and, and, and not
• 28:12
  letting us see really kind of, I don't think it's the most
• 28:15
  impressive prop. Don't know but it goes into the
• 28:17
  light in the middle of it comes out of the spaceship model.
• 28:21
  Yeah, he's really thought to see.
• 28:22
  The whole fleet and then it goes to dawn the next day, I mean.
• 28:26
  This one thing that Cam field is he's he clearly always had an
• 28:32
  eye on how he was going to move from 1:00.
• 28:33
  Transitions, absolutely. And I don't think all Doctor Who
• 28:36
  directors have that because. Sometimes I don't think very
• 28:38
  many of them do at. All very jarring sometimes,
• 28:41
  yeah, that noise that. I love the way that I love the
• 28:46
  way that Travan says. Just call me up out.
• 28:50
  There must be some here amongst all this gubbins.
• 28:53
  I think I say that quite a lot, you know?
• 28:56
  We must protect everyone here, at least what is As.
• 28:59
  Great as they they get one on who knows it.
• 29:02
  It stops you from being hypnotized.
• 29:03
  They get one on everybody and trout and just falls to the
• 29:06
  floor balls. The Doctor hasn't got one do.
• 29:12
  You know what I was thinking that that scene there with
• 29:15
  Vaughan just sort of looking out.
• 29:18
  Yeah. And scenes like Jimber and
• 29:21
  Genesis, things like Davros, you know when you can hear all the
• 29:23
  rattle and gunfire and he's. In a dark and tapping.
• 29:25
  Tapping away We don't have enough time with our villains in
• 29:30
  the new series now for them to make this sort of impact I.
• 29:33
  Don't know, and it's a pity. The the other thing that I love
• 29:38
  about these scenes is that they've lit up the backdrop so
• 29:41
  that they've got lights in the windows of offices on the
• 29:44
  horizon, which isn't it? I just love deserted London in
• 29:48
  deserted London. Boy oh boy, and I remember
• 29:54
  watching this for the first time, watching it, feeling it
• 29:56
  build and just getting more and more.
• 29:58
  Excited and it and that feels seamless.
• 30:05
  Them looking out of the window. You feel like they're looking
• 30:07
  onto London, don't you? See, and this I don't know,
• 30:10
  again, this is where I think you need Isabel just to look out and
• 30:13
  go, God, it looks. Like I do, I do agree, I do take
• 30:16
  your, take your point, take your point.
• 30:17
  And there are not enough regular people in season 7.
• 30:20
  So maybe actually we did need Isabel to to make another
• 30:23
  appearance next year. You know, I've got a feeling,
• 30:26
  you know, that Osgood from the new series.
• 30:29
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:30
  It's their child. Yes, because she's very pretty
• 30:36
  as well. Yes, Yeah.
• 30:38
  Well, that makes total sense. That's.
• 30:41
  It goes. Oh no, he just goes to the
• 30:44
  floor. Professor, get that the
• 30:47
  polarizer quickly. When did Zoe you?
• 30:49
  Don't say every day. When did Zoe get that glitter
• 30:51
  number on SO Reason? That's a costume from the Mind
• 30:55
  Robber, isn't it? But as was she She?
• 30:58
  She wasn't wearing that at the start, was she?
• 31:00
  The Brigadier said someone back said I don't know, the world's
• 31:04
  being invaded and that's what you're worried about?
• 31:08
  I love how they managed to do invasions with a few extras
• 31:12
  looking scared and. That's Derek Sherwin in the.
• 31:14
  Car it is, yes. He's quite handsome, isn't he?
• 31:21
  You know. Oh my God, I just please talk
• 31:23
  whilst sidemen start bursting out of the sewers.
• 31:26
  The Lion as well. The Cybermen, they're coming out
• 31:30
  all over London. Oh, sorry, no, I've got the line
• 31:33
  roll. Hundreds of them coming out of
• 31:36
  the sewers. Oh.
• 31:37
  James, we take it for granted, but he's all, I mean, it's just
• 31:41
  a, such a well framed shot and, and not just this one, but the
• 31:46
  ones of the, the sidemen coming out of the sewers as well, The,
• 31:49
  the one with some pools just vaguely in the background and
• 31:52
  the, the, the, the thing, the manhole cover flying off.
• 31:55
  That's what I mean about the spongy legs.
• 31:56
  Did you see him and the spongy arms?
• 31:58
  I. Can say I sort of see, well, I,
• 31:59
  I am prepared to to some extent suspend disbelief and see that's
• 32:03
  kind of a malleable metal. It's a sort of search the
• 32:07
  universe. For the it's such AI mean the
• 32:09
  the thing that the thing that I would if if I was watching this
• 32:13
  as a youngster and trying to kind of pretend that it looked
• 32:16
  perfect, I would have to ignore the lace up boots.
• 32:18
  That's the thing that would that make me worry like, did the side
• 32:21
  men do up their shoelaces before going out on an invasion?
• 32:25
  To Morris Barry's credit, in The Moon Base episode 3 where the
• 32:32
  Cybermen are walking across the moon to attack the moon base and
• 32:36
  it's that wonderful scene with space adventure playing.
• 32:39
  They look beautifully as like silhouetted against the moon
• 32:42
  back Rob and he does shoe like March and shoe.
• 32:47
  He does, yeah. It's a great idea because it
• 32:50
  just suggests like this sort of oncoming force.
• 32:54
  But do they have shoelaces in that one as well?
• 32:56
  I think they do, yes. They, they, they, they, they
• 32:58
  pretty much have have shoelaces until the 80s, don't they, they?
• 33:03
  Still got those where they have the holy balls they've got.
• 33:06
  The holy bulls don't wear the sort of, Yeah, they're like,
• 33:10
  they're like those ping pong balls that you get in youth
• 33:13
  centres where you're not allowed, not ping pong, no golf,
• 33:16
  golf balls. They're like plastic golf balls.
• 33:19
  That's what they are. You know, at the end of Army of
• 33:23
  Ghosts, where, yeah, it's like, Oh my God, the sidemen all over
• 33:26
  the world, then He's literally aiming for this sort of
• 33:29
  excitement, isn't it? He's watched this when he was
• 33:32
  younger and he's basically doing a modern version of it.
• 33:34
  He is, yeah. And I mean most.
• 33:36
  Most most heinously is when they try and recreate this scene
• 33:42
  actually outside Saint Paul's and and and and actually, it
• 33:46
  demonstrates just how good Cam fields filming is, because it's
• 33:50
  not just a matter of sit sticking a camera in front of
• 33:53
  Saint Paul's and getting some sidemen to March.
• 33:54
  It's it's so beautifully choreographed and the the depth
• 33:58
  of field sells the shot as well. He set it up in such a way that
• 34:02
  the sidemen just appear in the distance and and he allows them
• 34:05
  to come the full, you know, come into full frame.
• 34:09
  It's a great, it's a it's a well remembered shot for for good
• 34:12
  reason. It's a very well system, sort of
• 34:15
  like they're going down side streets, like they're just
• 34:17
  everywhere. They're everywhere, yeah.
• 34:19
  And they're coming to get you. And you know, Talala is a good
• 34:22
  director. I'm not sure what happened with
• 34:25
  that. I don't.
• 34:26
  Know I don't. Feel so divorced from the rest
• 34:28
  of the story as well. I just suddenly walk out and
• 34:30
  we're by some balls like what? What we Oh.
• 34:33
  OK, we're doing the invasion right.
• 34:34
  Over. But it's not.
• 34:35
  There's nothing otherworldly about it.
• 34:37
  If I tell you what it is when when it happens in in that
• 34:41
  episode, it feels much like it would look if it was a kind of a
• 34:47
  publicity stunt and was being filmed for BBC News.
• 34:51
  It's got that little atmosphere and some of it's just the sound
• 34:54
  design. I mean, the thing with the
• 34:56
  Invasion is it's got that sound effect running over the whole
• 34:58
  thing, that just repeated hypnotic tone, which gives the
• 35:01
  whole thing so much atmosphere, no music.
• 35:04
  When Kate Lethbridge Stewart turns up in the next episode and
• 35:07
  gives all her full title just like you would in ABBC
• 35:10
  interview. Hello, I'm Kate Lethbridge
• 35:12
  Stewart, daughter of Brigadier Alice.
• 35:14
  Well, she does have an invasion of cyber helmet in her hand,
• 35:17
  which is pretty great. Do you remember she throws it
• 35:20
  down and said this is what happened last time you was here
• 35:22
  and it's an it's an invasion helmet.
• 35:25
  I'd I'd I'd forgotten that there's a lot of that episode I
• 35:28
  have strategically blanked from my mind.
• 35:32
  For a good reason. Well, I'm going to just throw
• 35:34
  one question at you at the end of this episode because it's
• 35:36
  very relevant to the cliffhanger and wonderful, beautiful Daniel
• 35:41
  Rawlsley is asking. This is from Blue Sky.
• 35:44
  Now, given that the shot of the Cybermen at Saint Paul's has
• 35:47
  arguably never been better, how else could or should you combine
• 35:53
  Cybermen and iconography and Doctor Who?
• 35:55
  And have there been any good examples since discounting
• 36:00
  landmarks? Discount discounting landmarks.
• 36:06
  Discounting landmarks, yes. I thought he was going to ask,
• 36:09
  given that the shot has never been battered, should we just
• 36:12
  give up now and not make any more Doctor Who possibly
• 36:17
  discounting landmarks? I mean, I do I, I am of the
• 36:20
  opinion that what happens in the following year is we get
• 36:26
  beautiful iconic shots and they're not landmark based, but
• 36:30
  they're the the ambassadors of death silhouetted and walking
• 36:35
  towards that unit entrance and the Silurian emerging from the
• 36:40
  caves again, backlit. Autumn's coming out of Marks and
• 36:44
  Spencer's, well, it's not a landmark, but.
• 36:47
  It's I'd say spear. Spear from Space kind of takes
• 36:52
  its lead from the invasion in more ways than one.
• 36:55
  Certainly kind of with the final episode as well.
• 36:58
  And and the same location. But yeah, I I think Spearhead is
• 37:03
  a a great example do. You remember when they try and
• 37:06
  do it in Terror of the Zygons and have the Scarasan coming up
• 37:09
  out the Thames, Like sometimes these things don't work out so
• 37:14
  well. You know, it never bothered me.
• 37:17
  It never bothered me sort of child were you?
• 37:20
  I think I was just into the story about that point And and I
• 37:23
  think it's I think it UPS the anti boat by being in London.
• 37:27
  The idea that the this thing has been in remotely in Scotland and
• 37:31
  very self-contained and suddenly the Scarison is in is, you know,
• 37:36
  rearing up out of the Thames. That again, the the for me, the
• 37:40
  fact that it was in London was enough.
• 37:42
  I didn't need it to look brilliant.
• 37:44
  I mean, we're discounted landmarks, but the end of See
• 37:46
  Your Death is iconic, right? But it is a.
• 37:49
  Landmark There is a there is a landmark and I mean there's
• 37:52
  pretty hard to find any shot in city of death that doesn't have
• 37:55
  a landmark in. It in the 80s.
• 37:57
  Is there anything else maybe does that?
• 37:59
  Well, so I mean, I, I, I don't think it would count as a
• 38:03
  landmark, but I feel like the, the warehouse that they choose
• 38:08
  in silver Nemesis, it has a weird iconic look, that kind of
• 38:15
  hanger thing, the shape of it. And I do think there are
• 38:20
  moments. I mean, Silver Nemesis is not a
• 38:22
  very well directed show objectively, but there are
• 38:25
  moments where they shoot the sidemen from down and it's like,
• 38:27
  you know, the lessons have been learned from the past.
• 38:30
  They still know how to make sidemen look great and there's
• 38:33
  something about putting them in in that very distinctive
• 38:36
  wasteland which of course just doesn't exist in that part of
• 38:39
  London anymore. I recently watched Attack of the
• 38:43
  Cyberman. I'd have a lot of issues with
• 38:45
  Attack of the Cyberman. I do enjoy it.
• 38:46
  I like it sort of action-packed nature.
• 38:49
  But Matthew Robertson can shoot the Cyberman.
• 38:51
  And the location stuff is great. I mean, okay, talking about
• 38:54
  Robinson then I would say that all the stuff shot in the
• 38:57
  warehouses in Resurrection of the Daleks is and again, that's
• 39:00
  not London landmarks they use. The fact that you can just
• 39:03
  glimpse Tower Bridge in the background of some shots
• 39:05
  contextualises those those old derelict warehouses as well are.
• 39:09
  Any of them as good as this? I don't think they are.
• 39:13
  No. This may be the peak.
• 39:15
  I think this is the peak and the, and the, the thing that
• 39:23
  Doctor Who has that Doctor Who did ostentatiously when Russell
• 39:27
  D Davis brought it back in 2005, where he juxtaposed aliens and
• 39:33
  and London iconography or just kind of recognizable suburban
• 39:38
  streets. We we think that's kind of in
• 39:40
  the DNA of Doctor Who, but actually it's quite rare.
• 39:44
  Like it's this, there's some of it in season 7.
• 39:47
  There's a tide. There's a little bit in the
• 39:48
  remainder of the poetry era. Very little in Tom Baker's time
• 39:53
  did that. I mean, the TARDIS landing in a,
• 39:56
  in a, in a, in a lay by. That's the kind of imagery we're
• 40:00
  talking about really. And and that it's surprisingly
• 40:03
  kind of striking the fact that it's just a lay by.
• 40:06
  I think as the new series progressed it just got a bit
• 40:10
  lazy, but that sort of thing. So eventually we were like
• 40:12
  riding bikes up the Shard and things like that and it just
• 40:15
  doesn't have any of the effect at all.
• 40:18
  And just like why is no. One looking up and going, well,
• 40:20
  what the Hell's going on there, Jesus Christ.
• 40:24
  Although I've got to say, I do think a very iconic London image
• 40:30
  in the new series is that mushroom cloud in turn left.
• 40:36
  Yes, I never forget. That image and that's not a
• 40:40
  landmark, but then why would you forget that?
• 40:43
  Well, Daniel also goes on to say it.
• 40:45
  So let's let's end with this because he's he's posing an
• 40:48
  alternative theory for the next season.
• 40:50
  So. Oh, hang on.
• 40:51
  No, I thought of 1 spaceship landing in a school playground
• 40:53
  there the the Dalek shuffle craft that that I would say
• 40:59
  again, it's just it's that juxtaposition and and the the
• 41:02
  brilliance of putting it in a school because half your
• 41:06
  audience are in schools very similar to that.
• 41:09
  You're talking about iconic? What about the Skegness Glee
• 41:12
  Club coming along at the end of No, I'm joking, I'm just.
• 41:15
  That's a. That's a close second.
• 41:17
  It's wonderful. I'm saying it's sort of a.
• 41:19
  Landmark though, isn't it Barry Ireland now?
• 41:21
  I mean, it's been on a lot. Of yes, no.
• 41:24
  Daniel goes on to say also an alternative season, the 6B,
• 41:29
  where they ditched Jamie in London after his shot in the
• 41:31
  leg. Give him a job at UNIT with a
• 41:33
  Brigadier or something. It's all the rage these days.
• 41:36
  And trout and goes off travelling in the TARDIS with
• 41:38
  Zoe and Isabel instead. Yay or nay?
• 41:43
  Oh, yes, I'm saying yes, yes, yes.
• 41:45
  I think I'm saying nay. I think I'm, I think that would
• 41:48
  begin to great. I mean, I, I'm, I'm less keen on
• 41:51
  Zoe than you are. Why explain?
• 41:55
  Yourself, Sir, Because I think that Zoe also can be irritating.
• 42:00
  She's supposed to be. Irritating, yeah, but you say
• 42:03
  that like it's a good thing. Like I think Zoe when she's at
• 42:05
  her best is is Zoe when she's irritating, justifiably
• 42:10
  irritating because she's a bit smug.
• 42:12
  Zoe when she's clever than the Doctor.
• 42:14
  So. But Zoe is a great foil for the
• 42:16
  2nd Doctor. But sometimes.
• 42:19
  Her best when she beats up the carcass less than 42.
• 42:24
  That's a good moment. The bit in the Crotons is a good
• 42:27
  moment. Final episode of this story is a
• 42:30
  good moment. Zoe has moments where it's just
• 42:33
  like it's a bit misjudged and I think that.
• 42:35
  A bit where she smashes the vase over the common dance head.
• 42:39
  I do like that but. I get your point, I get your
• 42:42
  point, and she's a certain type of obnoxious that people's
• 42:47
  tolerance will vary. I think so.
• 42:49
  And I, and I think that in this story, Jamie is a really fun
• 42:53
  foil to the the kind of Zoe and Isabel alliance that forms 222
• 43:01
  intelligent and hot headed young women with, you know,
• 43:06
  independent. His awkwardness is, is kind of
• 43:09
  what makes that such a joy to watch.
• 43:11
  So I'm not sure I'd want to leave Jamie with the Brigadier.
• 43:14
  I like how he keeps going. No, let's not do this.
• 43:16
  Let's wait. Oh, come on, Jamie.
• 43:18
  You know, let's go. Well, that was a delightful
• 43:21
  episode. I've got to say, I'm not sure
• 43:23
  how great the story is going to live up to that, if I'm honest.
• 43:26
  But if we're lucky, we may see the Cybermen blown to shit in
• 43:30
  episode 6. Oh, episode 7.
• 43:32
  That was episode 6. Good grief.
• 43:34
  Doctor Who's stories are not normally this long.
• 43:36
  James, will you out us somehow, please?
• 43:39
  Well, I out us. Yes, you know what I say.
• 43:44
  Oh, do I? Oh, let's cut it there.