Latest / Motherhood Uncut / Highly Sensitive Mothers and Kids | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 2 Episode 7

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Highly Sensitive Mothers and Kids | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 2 Episode 7 · Motherhood Uncut

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Motherhood Uncut.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: We are so glad you're here.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: In this podcast, Deb Ruben and I talk about all things motherhood related, the things that people don't usually want to bring to the table.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: The messy, the hilarious, the ugly, the challenging, the amazing, the beautiful, the really effed up, all that stuff.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: We've got it here for you.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: We bring to you our own personal experiences, moms, as well as some research and data that might help you along the way.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Bring your friends.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: We've got you.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: Come mother with us.
0:39
SPEAKER_04: Hey all, Deb here.
0:41
SPEAKER_04: Kate and I had the opportunity to interview Brenda Winkle this week.
0:46
SPEAKER_04: She is a coach and a healer, and she runs a business that works with highly sensitive people, overachievers, perfectionists, people pleasers, and empaths helping individuals set boundaries, protect their energy, and heal their nervous systems.
1:01
SPEAKER_04: Wow, we had so much fun talking to this woman.
1:04
SPEAKER_04: She is a wealth of knowledge.
1:06
SPEAKER_04: I learned so much about myself in this talk.
1:09
SPEAKER_04: Oh, it was really fun.
1:11
SPEAKER_04: I hope you enjoy the show, and there's wonderful show notes at the end to find her because she is someone that you really want to have in your back pocket.
1:19
SPEAKER_04: Thanks for listening and have a great day.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Hey y'all, it's Kate.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: As you know, I am really passionate about helping mothers learn how to reconnect with themselves, develop skills and strategies for being resilient to all of those bumps in the road of motherhood.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: And my biggest joy is partnering with you as you go along the journey to find new ways of being in the world where you feel more energized, you have more joy, more connections, deeper connections, more time, more space.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: I have opened up a few one-on-one coaching spots, and I want to invite you to reach out to me and consider the possibility of working together.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: You can look for that on my website, KateKripke.com.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: I really hope to partner with you.
2:04
SPEAKER_04: Hello everyone, this is Deb.
2:06
SPEAKER_04: As you may know, I have a huge passion for self-discovery and growth, and I love nothing more than helping others evolve into their own unique ways.
2:16
SPEAKER_04: As mothers, we have a deep intuition that can sometimes feel muddled with time.
2:20
SPEAKER_04: In the Mother Daughter Journey workshops for moms, I focus on honoring and helping participants to come back to that intuition while also equipping you with some powerful tools to help strengthen that beautiful mother-daughter bond.
2:33
SPEAKER_04: I just launched my April and May group, so check them out on my website, motherdaughterjourney.co.
2:38
SPEAKER_04: I can't wait to work with you.
2:40
SPEAKER_04: Hi, Deb.
2:40
SPEAKER_04: Hi, Kate.
2:41
SPEAKER_04: It's podcast day.
2:43
SPEAKER_04: It is, although it's night.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: It's podcast night.
2:45
SPEAKER_04: That's the first.
2:46
SPEAKER_04: This is usually my bedtime.
2:48
SPEAKER_04: Me too.
2:49
SPEAKER_04: So we might be a little um, hopefully, our brains and our mouths connect.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: We hope we make sense tonight.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: We have a very special guest who's not local to us in Boulder.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: So we're actually sitting on our very first Zoom interview for this podcast.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: We I hope it works.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: I have faith.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: We're talking with Brenda Winkle, who is just such an incredible woman, mother, entrepreneur, coach.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: Brenda, you and I know each other from some masterminds that we've been doing and some shared work around growing our own professional selves and overlapped so quickly, both as humans, but also around some of the work that we're doing.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: And so I am so excited to bring you in here.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: Will you just take a moment before we dive into sort of the meat of our conversation tonight to just tell us how would you describe yourself?
3:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna really put you on the spot here.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: How would you describe yourself personally and professionally?
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, hello, Kate and Dev.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me on the podcast.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited for this conversation.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: And oh my gosh, describing myself professionally and personally.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I think that's is such a big question because sometimes we can get wrapped up in identity.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times we use our work and our titles and our functions as part of our identity.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: And so the label side of me would say I'm an energy healer and a coach and a mom of a 21-year-old.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm also somebody who's like a yogi kind of spirit, somebody who meditates often and has a 21-year practice of meditation.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: And I like to be kind to the planet.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: And animal rescue makes me really happy.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: And I foster dogs.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: And so you're our kind, you're our kind of woman, Brenda.
4:54
SPEAKER_04: Oh dogs.
4:56
SPEAKER_04: I always wonder about people that foster dogs.
4:59
SPEAKER_04: Can I totally digress for a minute?
5:01
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
5:02
SPEAKER_04: Do you get attached to the dogs?
5:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, yes, and and also there's this awareness that you're doing something so kind.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: And so the first foster dog that I had, I cried all the way home after dropping the dog off.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: And then I walked into my house, and it was just my house.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: There wasn't any extra energy in it.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, okay, I'm I'm good.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: And I'm still in touch with the family, still in touch with the dog.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: I get dog pictures once in a while.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: And so that first one was kind of like ripping the band-aid off.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: And there's always that little ping of, oh, I really love this dog.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: But knowing that you've sort of shepherded the dog into the next phase is so rewarding.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: And when there's a fit between the dog and the family, it clicks.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: You can feel it.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: And it's so cool.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: And then when you feel that click, you realize, oh, that dog wasn't supposed to be with me.
6:03
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
6:04
SPEAKER_04: That is so beautiful.
6:05
SPEAKER_04: That feels like maybe a good segue into your work.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, right, or into mothering because it's so maternal.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: It's so maternal.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: Actually, that's one of the first things.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: I didn't say this to you last time we had a conversation, Brenda, but it's like one of the first things I felt from you.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: You really do have this maternal being about you.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: Do you feel that?
6:24
SPEAKER_01: And like, like I really feel like you carry this sort of care for the planet, care for animals, care for people, care for obviously you have your own daughter, but it's a really it's it there's something very maternal in the way you show up in the world.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: It's really awesome, which is perfect because you're in the Motherhood Uncut podcast with us.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: It is perfect.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: I've been learning about subtle energies, subtle energetics through my Pods Breath Work Facilitator program.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: And the energy that is strongest in me is the flow energy, which is connected to Mother Earth.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: And so it's not surprising to me that people feel that kind of maternal energy.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: I've been that way since I was a small kid, like always taking care of ladybugs and stray cats and you know, whatever.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: And you have a 21-year-old daughter.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do.
7:20
SPEAKER_04: Will you tell us about your motherhood journey thus far?
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, I had always pictured myself as a mom, but never pictured myself with a baby.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what that would look like.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: I never was somebody who like had baby fever.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: I had kid fever.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to have a child, but the baby part kind of scared me, honestly.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: That felt really scary.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can relate to that for sure.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: But um, I was I was married a while ago, and in that marriage, I was uh we had been trying to have children.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: We tried for about eight years, nothing happened, gave up, moved across the country to Kansas City, rented an expensive townhouse, bought two new cars, he went back to school, and I got pregnant.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's how it works, right?
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: So my daughter was born when we were living in Kansas City, and I had postpartum depression, but didn't know it until years later when it started to lift.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: And yet I enjoyed the process of mothering.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Like I liked being a mom right from the beginning.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: And I felt like my daughter was kind of an old soul, like she just got things, she was always an easy baby, even when she needed tubes in her ears.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: It was like she was a good baby, and then she got tubes in her ears, and then she was a great baby.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Lucky mama.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I was lucky.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: And you know, she's 21, she lives in Portland, she lives alone.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, she lives with a roommate, but not in my house.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: And yet there's this mothering thing that is still very much present.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, so for example, Sunday night, I get a text in the middle of the night when my phone is on Do Not Disturb.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: So it didn't wake me up, but I looked at it in the morning and it said, Mom, I threw up.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: Can I come over?
9:22
SPEAKER_00: You're like, I'm still cleaning up your throw up and you're 21.
9:27
unknown: Yeah.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: Job never ends.
9:29
SPEAKER_04: Right.
9:30
SPEAKER_04: I love it.
9:31
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
9:32
SPEAKER_04: How would you say your mothering and your identity as mother has impacted your work?
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think it's really connected.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: I and you know, I so I was in an abusive marriage.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: And when I came out of that, I started this healing journey.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: And mostly it was about survival.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: And it was mostly about like, how am I gonna get food on the table?
10:00
SPEAKER_00: How am I gonna manage this household thing?
10:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to do this household thing, and it was just really about the managing of daily life.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: And one day I was frustrated and I heard and felt something really pointed come out of my mouth, and I watched my daughter's facial expression.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: And it made me realize I had to get this under control because I could I knew I had hurt her.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: And then the second thing that was really impactful was as my daughter grew, she's very much like me.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: She looks a lot like me, she acts a lot like me.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: And I recognized that if I didn't make peace with who I was and learn to love myself, that I wouldn't be able to love all of her.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: And so I made it my job to love myself so that I could show up more fully for her.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: And I promised myself I would never have words in anger towards her again, like that barbed thing that I remembered.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: And so I began to really be introspective about what I would need to be able to show up like that.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: And the answer was often space and a little break and a timeout and maybe some water.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
11:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was really basic stuff.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: And it was shocking what a difference it made in my ability to show up as a mom when I would set a microwave timer for 10 minutes and go lay on the bed and look at the ceiling.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: That intentional timeout as opposed to like zoning out, right?
11:48
SPEAKER_01: When you're quote unquote pretending to be hanging out with your kiddo, but you're really zoning out.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: That intent sounds like so much intention.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little bit, Brenda?
11:58
SPEAKER_01: I want to really dive into some of the expertise that we're hoping you can bring to us for sure, and also to our listeners.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: I know that one of the kind of specialty niches that you have in your work, in your coaching work is working with highly sensitive people.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, you talk, your website talks about this, and I've heard you talk about this before.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: It's highly sensitive.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: I think the way it's phrased is highly sensitive, empathic, and perfectionist people.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: Am I saying that right?
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Which is I guess my I'm I'm actually hearing myself ask a question spontaneously, which is I am curious to hear how you would make a connection between those three types of people.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: But of course, one of the things we really wanted to dive in with you tonight about was is sort of really making space for thinking about that highly sensitive person who's a mother, right?
12:56
SPEAKER_01: And knowing that, of course, you don't get motherhood without a lot of feeling and noise and sensory experiences.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: And I think um certainly we know a lot of people who would say that their kiddos are highly sensitive.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: I and then we think about this idea of mothers being highly sensitive.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, it's this whole gamut.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: And I would love to just pass the torch to you to help us walk through some of this.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, but maybe we could start with that first question about how are those three empaths, perfectionists, and highly sensitive people?
13:30
SPEAKER_01: How would you connect those three groups?
13:33
SPEAKER_00: I love this question.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: And I would also add that I think we should include overachievers and people pleasers in those groups.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: And so, not all people pleasers or overachievers or perfectionists are highly sensitive, but a lot of them are.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: And they become people pleasers and perfectionists and overachievers because of their high sensitivity.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: So let's unpack what high sensitivity is, what it is to be highly sensitive.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: There was a research study in 1997 that revealed that the brains of highly sensitive people actually have more neuroreceptors and they are more prone to noticing external stimuli, and they're more prone to being able to pick up on emotions.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: And this manifests in two ways.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: One is that the per the brain of the highly sensitive person is more sensitive to the emotions within that person, and the brain of the highly sensitive person is more aware of the emotional states of the people they're around, picking up on nonverbal cues like facial expressions and body language.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: And then there's another subgroup of highly sensitive people that have an empathic ability where they're actually feeling the emotions, experiencing them in their bodies of the people around them.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: And the really interesting thing to me is 20 to 30 percent of the population uh is highly sensitive, according to this research.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: But if you talk to people, it's more like one in 10, which means there's two to three people out of every 10 that are dealing with these high sensitivities and maybe don't quite know how to deal with it.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: And so I think understanding that it's literally a brain difference, it is not a disorder, it is not a disability, it is not a disease, it's just a different way of processing information and emotions.
15:42
SPEAKER_04: That is amazing.
15:44
SPEAKER_04: That is so helpful, I would imagine, for so many people.
15:47
SPEAKER_04: I have to ask you a really random question.
15:50
SPEAKER_04: Do you find that highly sensitive or empaths um have problems with technology?
15:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, they're I know it's so random, but it's not as random as you might think because a lot of empaths in particular generate tremendous electromagnetic fields and they can short out watches, they can make batteries go dead quicker, they can actually cause variations and fluctuations in like cell phones, for example.
16:23
SPEAKER_04: Yes, okay, thank you.
16:24
SPEAKER_04: Because you're welcome.
16:30
SPEAKER_04: Our husbands give us a fucking break, is what we need to do because I mean it's just empaths.
16:35
SPEAKER_04: I tell them, I'm like, I'm an empath, I can't help it.
16:38
SPEAKER_04: I break things.
16:38
SPEAKER_04: Okay, I'm sorry.
16:40
SPEAKER_04: No, that's a that's a really interesting.
16:42
SPEAKER_04: What made me think of it is the neurons that you're talking about and energy and like that feeling when when you feel so much energy, you emote so much energy as well.
16:52
SPEAKER_04: Like right.
16:53
SPEAKER_04: I mean, so yeah, so keep going.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: So if we talk about the neurotransmitters in the brain, let's just think about it as an electrical grid.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: So the neurotransmitters in the brain are picking up on more information from external simulation, whether it's sound or light or sensory, like touch or even taste.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: And because they're picking up on so much more information in the field, the capacity is going to be impacted at a different rate than somebody who's not highly sensitive.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Which is why the person who's highly sensitive to sound, which there's a lot of moms who are highly sensitive to sound, might find themselves like in a rage after the TV's been on for a few hours.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: And their partner might look at them and say, What?
17:47
SPEAKER_00: It's at the same level it's been on all day.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: But the mom who's highly sensitive has reached capacity, which means that the volume doesn't have to go up at all.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: She has just reached the capacity of what her nervous system can tolerate for that day.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's so helpful.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: That's it really opens up my compassion a lot, right?
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Like I think of myself as empathetic and attuned to the sensory experiences around me.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: And I also think I'm probably I probably fall within the norm, right?
18:25
SPEAKER_01: And I know that for me, you know, all the sensory experiences as a mom, we can hit capacity.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't take a whole lot of time to hit capacity as a mom, right?
18:36
SPEAKER_01: You've got maybe one, maybe more children, you may have pets, you may have just life around you happening.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: So to really think about the that lower capacity for a highly sensitive mom and to really tune into how quickly she must hit her limit and how overwhelming and helpless and chaotic that must make her feel.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm so curious.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm rushing it a little bit with this question because I don't want you to give us sort of the punchline too quickly, but what does it look like to support in your work, what does it look like to support those mothers who are highly sensitive in these environments that just are sensory environments in and of themselves, as motherhood is, right?
19:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, I really want to answer that question and I will, but I first want to name that because we're talking about sensory experiences, it's not only sound, it could be light.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: And it could touch and touch.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: It could be how close you want somebody to be to you.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: It could be that this jacket is itchy and it's all I can think about, is my jacket's not itchy, but it's just an example.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, or this fragrance makes me so I just can't think.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: And so all of these things can be impacting someone's ability to just focus and maintain daily activities.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: And then if you add the emotional component of being more sensitive to the emotions of her family or of her coworkers, then there's a whole other layer of complexity.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: I my I'm my brain is exploding.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Me too.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm learning, I am not kidding, I'm learning so much new, so much new information right now.
20:24
SPEAKER_04: I've never thought of me too.
20:25
SPEAKER_04: Wait, I I wanna don't I don't want to go to the punchline too quickly because I you were about to explain how the connection with overachieving, pleasing perfectionism, can you make that connection?
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: So if let's just say if someone is really prone to the emotional states of other people and they're reading the room, they're feeling these emotions, people learn at a very young age what makes other people happy.
20:53
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god, this is my childhood.
20:55
SPEAKER_04: I'm just saying, sorry, you and you'll notice that right now.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so if you understand that these behaviors make the people, the parental impactors happy, whether that's teachers or parents or how whoever, then you begin to do more of them because there's a reward.
21:14
unknown: Yeah.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you did it perfect, and then you got rewarded.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I people please, and then you get rewarded.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: I overachieved and you rewarded me.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: And because the highly sensitive person is so aware of the emotional states of the other people, it becomes a way to get love, a way to feel valuable, a way to feel like they're contributing because they can kind of do it on demand.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: The highly sensitive person can people please on demand, right?
21:44
SPEAKER_04: Totally.
21:44
SPEAKER_04: And I wonder, correct me if I'm wrong, but in that reward piece increases capacity for the discomfort that might be happening from all the sensation.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: And because there's so much discomfort in all All the sensation, so much of the time, one of two things happen.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Either the person gets completely opened up, and it's the person who walks around like they're a raw nerve, and everything hits them in a way that feels like it's just too much, or they turn it all off because it's too much, and they walk around numb because it's just it's it's too much.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: And so then that person might not feel any emotions at all because they've turned them off, because they needed to turn them off to be able to function.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: And so carrying around this load of other people's stuff and other people's emotions and the sensory things that are happening inside your body, which maybe you have one, maybe you have all, it's a lot.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's uh it sounds uh sounds unbearable.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: It can be until you know what to do with it.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: And so, for example, I really hated shopping malls, I couldn't handle them.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: I was physically ill within about 20 minutes of going into a shopping mall.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: And it had happened my whole life.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: I assumed it was like I was allergic to the clothes, or I didn't know what it was, but I was like sick to my stomach and massive headaches within 20 minutes.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Once I learned how to protect my own energetic field so that I wasn't merging with everybody else's, that went away.
23:32
SPEAKER_04: And what did you how did you learn to do that?
23:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, actually let me teach you something really simple that you can do.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: And um, so I'm gonna have you zip up your energy.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: And when I say zip up, it's really fun to actually zip.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: And if you have highly sensitive kids, you can do this for them too.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Teach them this.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: So we all have an electromagnetic field around us, and we can measure this with a lot of different science instruments.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what they are, but I know that these there's about 400 research studies by the Institute of Heart Math that say we have this electromagnetic field that's about three feet out from each of us.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: So if we zip up our electromagnetic field by starting at the base of our torso, like right in our pubic bone, and just make a zipping motion like you're zipping up a parka, go up your body, up over your head, and just do that three times.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: So somatic.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: It is very somatic.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, I now have a buffer.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: And I can sense my energy, and I can now differentiate where my energy ends and your energy begins.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not feeling like I'm merging with you, and I'm not physically experiencing what you're experiencing.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm still aware of it, yeah, but I'm not feeling it.
24:56
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
24:57
SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's so beautiful.
24:59
SPEAKER_04: When I when I one of my daughters is extremely extremely sensitive, both of them, and um, and when they were little, I used to tell them to pull up their peacock wings to like protect themselves from all they would come home.
25:14
SPEAKER_04: My older one would actually process everything that happened in the classroom as if it happened to her, and she couldn't differentiate.
25:22
SPEAKER_04: And that's when I started to do that.
25:23
SPEAKER_04: And I also found it helpful.
25:25
SPEAKER_04: I'm curious your thoughts on this of putting oil like on the skin to have a little protective layer.
25:32
SPEAKER_04: I started learning that in my 20s to really like oil myself up to go out into the world.
25:37
SPEAKER_04: Is that real?
25:38
SPEAKER_04: Is that a thing?
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a thing, and that speaks to a specific, um, a specific sensory experience that you and your children have, where that is really soothing to your skin.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: That barrier is really soothing.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, absolutely.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: If your sensitivity is sound, sometimes walking around, I have them right here with an earbud that's not connected to anything in your ear, just to buffer the sound a little bit, to to just give yourself a break and increase your capacity for later can be so helpful.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: So, really getting curious about where are your sensitivities?
26:19
SPEAKER_00: And then creating soothing somatic experiences for those sensitivities is really nourishing.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: And the minute that we start, we start treating our sensitivity as a gift instead of a liability, it all starts to shift.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's so interesting.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it it really is all mindset, which is what we talk a lot about in the counseling and therapy space as well, right?
26:46
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of mindset.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: How we perceive something is really what, you know, we make more of what we perceive it to be, right?
26:55
SPEAKER_01: So just that that sort of metaphor of zipping up or the or the wings or the right, the the image of that, just the intention of that sets our brain and our feelings and our thoughts on a whole different direction than if we're imagining ourselves being swallowed by the sensory experience, which again, when I said it sounds unbearable, like that's really the feeling I have as I'm hearing you describe what some people's experience is like, that it's just like being swallowed up by all of the sensors, senses in the environment.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: And so needing that boundary, needing that visual, kind of symbolic, metaphoric sort of you know, space between yourself and everything else, feels like it's really imperative.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's I think it's imperative for all of us on some degree.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: We're all needing to do that in relationships and in our mothering, but especially for those folks who have that just that high sensitivity to all of those the noise and the touch and the smell.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's all motherhood, motherhood's so messy in all those ways.
28:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
28:03
SPEAKER_04: And I love, you know, the first thing you said is space.
28:08
SPEAKER_04: And it's such an interesting paradox because there's this pressure, right, to be present all the time.
28:18
SPEAKER_04: And when someone is highly sensitive and you're saying they need more space, there's more permission to get that space and they need it probably more frequently.
28:27
SPEAKER_04: And it's kind of just changing the story around space.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm curious what you think about that.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I think for moms especially, because you know, our kids want our attention kind of all the time until, you know, they're a little bit older and we're ready to give it to them in a different way.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: And then it shifts again.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, if somebody has your attention all the time and you never have space to figure out, okay, what's mine?
29:00
SPEAKER_00: And our kids have big feelings because they're experiencing a lot of firsts.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, really the eight 18 years that they're typically in a home, there's a ton of firsts all the time, and they're having big emotions to that.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: And if you're a highly sensitive mom, you're experiencing that with them.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: And so that space becomes imperative because it's really important to remember oh, wait, I'm not anxious about remembering my locker code.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: That's not mine.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: And then when we get that space, then we can remember, oh, okay, wait a second.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm taking on things that aren't mind to carry.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Then we can show up a little bit differently for our kids.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Because I think the the thing that I I'd love to hear your perspective on this too, because of being mental health professionals.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: My my feeling is no one wants to be fixed or have things fixed for them.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: And when we create space for ourselves as highly sensitive moms, then we stop trying to fix because I can now tolerate your discomfort.
30:11
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
30:12
SPEAKER_04: I I mean, I think that's like the golden ticket to parenting right there.
30:16
SPEAKER_04: What is mine?
30:18
SPEAKER_04: What is yours?
30:19
SPEAKER_04: How do I hold space for you to be you and be separate from me?
30:23
SPEAKER_04: And I can sit with your pain, but not take it on.
30:26
SPEAKER_04: So you get to have your own pain, and I'm not going to rob you of that experience.
30:31
SPEAKER_04: And then I actually am tending to myself in that process.
30:34
SPEAKER_04: I mean, so powerful.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: I say often, um, I've said it on this podcast, that for me, the hardest part of mothering is not preventing my kids from feeling their own pain, right?
30:47
SPEAKER_01: Just like Deb is saying to you're saying, to give them space to feel their pain.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Again, I'm just having a real, there's something happening for me in this conversation where I'm sort of I'm I'm I'm a I'm slightly embarrassed that I've never considered this particular niche of mothers in my, you know, long amount of work I've done in this field, because it's like it's so easy when to be able, you know, just as a mental health professional, as someone who really has practiced and done the work.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: And so that I'm, you know, there's nothing I talk to my clients about that I'm not doing on my own all the time.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: But for me to have a hard time with that idea of not preventing my kids from feeling their own pain because it hurts me when they hurt.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: And then for me to be thinking about what is that like for someone who hurts even more than I hurt when their kids are feeling pain, right?
31:43
SPEAKER_01: It's hard enough for those of us who may not consider themselves to be highly sensitive.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: And I feel very compassionate and empathetic and just really um humble, I think.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: I I this is sort of a humbling conversation to realize that there's this whole niche of folks.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: I think as therapists, we sort of make space for the sensitive feelings of anybody that walks in our office, even if they don't consider themselves highly sensitive.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, this is important information for me to be getting tonight.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would also like to just offer, I don't think there's any reason to be embarrassed because as I'm leaning into this work and asking questions and having um calls with people, highly sensitive moms or moms of highly sensitive kids, I'm learning that there is no one out there doing the work that I'm now doing.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: There is no one that is talking to moms about what it's like to be a highly sensitive mom or a mom raising a highly sensitive kid.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: And so I think because there's no one out there doing this work, people don't know.
32:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this is new for so many.
32:58
SPEAKER_04: I have a question.
32:59
SPEAKER_04: Do you find a correlation between highly sensitive moms having more highly sensitive children?
33:07
SPEAKER_04: I do.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say it's 100%, but there is a really, there's a significant correlation.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: I have spoken with one mom who knew that one of her children was highly sensitive.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: And she actually came to me because she knew the child was highly sensitive.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: And she felt like she had one child who was highly sensitive and one child who was not highly sensitive.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: And when I asked her if she identified as highly sensitive, she said no.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: And then she stopped me at the end of the conversation and she said, What would it look like if I was highly sensitive?
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what a great question.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, it might look like um temperature variations, like one end of the scale, are really hard for you.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you hate being cold, or maybe you hate being hot.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's something that like is physically a problem if you get to be to that temperature.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Oh, well, I can't stand being cold.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Okay, so let's talk more.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any groups of foods that you can't eat because of the way they feel in your mouth?
34:18
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Oh, yeah, hard things.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't eat hard things that crunch on my teeth.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yep, yeah, that's a that's a highly sensitive characteristic.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any groups of foods where a whole flavor profile is out?
34:30
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Yeah, I don't eat anything spicy.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: I said, Okay, great.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: So you've already identified three markers that you are are highly sensitive.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: And so when we think about the ways that our senses lead us through our lives, we're taught, unfortunately, in school settings that we should ignore our preferences and ignore the ways that we feel about things.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: Like if it's school lunch, this is what you get.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: And um, don't go get your coat right now.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to, we don't wear the coat inside, kind of a thing.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: And we're taught from a very young age that we should not meet these needs for ourselves.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: And so we grow up into thinking that there's something wrong with me or I should be uncomfortable all the time.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: And I would just like to turn that on its head and say, you know, if you know that something is going to make you more comfortable, create more ease in your life, reduce the friction that you experience in your daily life, why wouldn't you do that?
35:34
SPEAKER_04: Right.
35:35
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
35:36
SPEAKER_04: I'm just so appreciating your high level of compassion right now for so many people out there that need to hear this because there is there is some strong messaging around we people don't want to raise their kids to be entitled or spoiled.
35:52
SPEAKER_04: You know, these are harsh words, but like, and so suck it up, you know, like you don't always get what you want.
35:58
SPEAKER_04: Like there's a definite some strong messaging there.
36:01
SPEAKER_04: And you're speaking to just such a different deep layer of honoring what's teaching our children to honor what's real for them, how that can change their whole trajectory of their life.
36:17
SPEAKER_04: I'm also blown away.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, and also to I just want to highlight what you said, Brenda, is that there's there does this doesn't have to be thought of as a problem.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: There's no problem here.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: It's the this things like this, many of the things we talk about in this podcast are only a problem if they're not supported well, right?
36:33
SPEAKER_01: Because then it's hard to move forward.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: But in and of itself, being being highly sensitive is not a problem.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: I have a question for you.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering if you can help us find sort of the line between these two things.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: We talk so much, or I talk so much, I think we both do, about this idea of distress tolerance, right?
36:53
SPEAKER_01: Really learning how to sit with discomfort.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: To me, that feels like a very, very important part of mental health and well-being.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: How do you determine the healthy sitting with discomfort and then the do something so that you're no longer uncomfortable, right?
37:14
SPEAKER_01: That sort of fine line.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: Where does it rest for people who consider themselves to be highly sensitive?
37:21
SPEAKER_00: I love this question.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that there's there's more than one answer, but like for example, I'm sitting here with a blanket on my lap in a perfectly well heated place.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: Like it there, the the temperature is tolerable, but I know that I get shivery and cold, and it doesn't really matter the temperature, I get shivery and cold.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: And so I just I put a blanket on.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that if we look at look to our bodies and we say to ourselves, what would make me feel physically more comfortable right now?
38:03
SPEAKER_00: And then doing that.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: And usually it's taking away something or adding something, and then being really curious about how did that feel?
38:13
SPEAKER_00: Was I able to relax my body a little bit when I warmed up or cooled off?
38:18
SPEAKER_00: Was I able to ungrip that tightness in my belly when I stopped eating that food I didn't really like?
38:26
SPEAKER_00: And then really getting curious about the messages that our body is sending us.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, like you were alluding to, there's this fine line between learning to sit with discomfort, as in, I'm trying something new and I'm really uncomfortable right now.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: And I'm uncomfortable right now because there's a tag in the back of my shirt that's scratching me.
38:49
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's like physical, it's more of a physical focus, I think, than mental.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: And I also hear you asking the question, why stay uncomfortable?
39:01
SPEAKER_01: If you don't have to be that uncomfortable, what's the point of muscling through the discomfort?
39:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think, again, I see such a both and here.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: I think there's value for both of them.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: I think you're saying the same thing, Brenda.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm sort of aware in this conversation that there's not a lot that you're talking about with respect to your work with highly sensitive people that is any different than what we do with a general population who doesn't consider that, right?
39:27
SPEAKER_01: That we're really helping people advocate for themselves.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: And how do I want to feel and what choices can I make to lead me towards that feeling?
39:34
SPEAKER_01: And how do I give myself compassion and empathy for the places that are challenging?
39:38
SPEAKER_01: So it's all it's very similar modalities.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: And you're right, Deb.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: One, one of the that when it comes to sensory things, it's like a deep physical discomfort that's of course it overlaps with psychological and emotional discomfort, but but you're really talking about body sensations.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: Is that accurate?
40:02
SPEAKER_00: It is accurate.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: And you know, there can be there can be sensations in the emotional body too, you know, if you're picking up emotions from other people, especially.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: But you know, when um when your body is uncomfortable, let's say, for example, you're wearing a pair of hiking boots and you have a blister.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: Nobody says keep walking with the blister.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: And so there's this idea that somehow in our daily lives we should walk around with blisters and not feel good.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: And I just don't think that that's true.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: I think we can give ourselves what we need and then you know, recognize the the intent behind why we want to relieve ourselves.
40:47
SPEAKER_04: Oh, so good.
40:48
SPEAKER_04: Go on with that.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: And then if we think about the intent to be, I want to feel better.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's a pretty noble intent.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: I would lean into that.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: If the intent is to avoid trying something new, then that might be something that you would want to question.
41:08
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
41:08
SPEAKER_04: So wow, this is so great.
41:10
SPEAKER_04: So can we go back to the perfectionist piece?
41:14
SPEAKER_04: Because I I understand the I and maybe you already said it.
41:17
SPEAKER_04: Sorry, let me just think this through for a minute.
41:19
SPEAKER_04: I understand this piece around how for especially in for empaths, that there's this kind of desire or need to adjust in order to make other people happy, and that the so the people pleaser piece makes sense to me.
41:34
SPEAKER_04: I think I'm a little stuck on the perfectionist piece.
41:37
SPEAKER_04: Maybe you already said it.
41:38
SPEAKER_04: So sorry if you're repeating yourself.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: No, no, we we didn't say that.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: In fact, we we were talking more about the people pleasers than the perfectionists.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: So one of the characteristics of highly sensitive people, and I'd be curious to know if this resonates for you, is highly sensitive people have a very difficult time receiving criticism.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: It's wounding, like it is physically wounding.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: And so, as a child, if you discover that somebody giving you feedback about something when it's not perfect is painful, you learn to be perfect before you show anything.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: Wow, that makes so much sense.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: Sure does.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: We are humans are so smart, right?
42:27
SPEAKER_01: Like we know, we learn pretty early, so when we're so young, how to protect ourselves from quote unquote danger or harm, right?
42:38
SPEAKER_01: And we develop these ways of being in the world so early to help us manage those things.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: And then of course, we become adults and maybe have children and don't even know that we are considered highly sensitive and we've just learned how to quote unquote cope based on all of these earliest behaviors that are probably causing us problems now, right?
43:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm imagining that you do a lot of work with nervous system, helping people regulate their nervous systems.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: And because whether they're in sort of that state of fight or flight because they're in physical discomfort or because of some sort of emotional discomfort, as you're talking about right now.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Talk to us a bit, Brenda, about where how you guide people through that process.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: What do you use?
43:26
SPEAKER_01: What do you teach as far as nervous system management?
43:29
SPEAKER_00: So, nervous system management is really the key.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: It all comes back to the nervous system.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: We're sort of one giant nervous system.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: And the vagus nerve is the largest nerve in our body.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: And it really brings online all of our autonomic systems, like our digestion and our heart rate and our blood pressure and all these things.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: And it's a giant nerve that goes like from the base of the skull clear down to the base of the spine.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: And it has little fingers that go off into different organs.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Things.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: When we're in fight or flight, that nerve turns off, which means we might get digestive upset, which is a very common thing that highly sensitive children experience.
44:11
SPEAKER_00: They're always complaining of tummy troubles or headaches.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: When we can bring the vagus nerve back online, everything feels better.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: And I've got two really simple ways that we can do that.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: We can try it right here.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: So the first thing I'd invite you to do is to look as far as you can to the right and as far as you can to the left just to get a baseline.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
44:31
SPEAKER_04: We used to do this, by the way.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: So good.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: Love that.
44:36
SPEAKER_00: And then we're going to interlace our fingers and place our fingers behind our head and gently pull down, just a gentle tug, until your head is down as far as it can comfortably go.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: And then with your eyes only, look as far as you can to the right until you have an involuntary sigh or a yawn.
44:57
SPEAKER_02: That was voluntary.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: And then when you're ready, you can go to the other side and wait for that involuntary sigh or yawn or giggle.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: And then when you get it, go ahead and put your hands back in your lap and then look as far as you can to the right and left.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: And what difference do you notice?
45:26
SPEAKER_01: So much more rotation.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: Wait, Deb and I were a part of a meditation group with a teacher here for a long time.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: And she had us doing a bunch.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm now reminded she had us doing a lot of this work.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: And it's amazing how quickly that can shift things.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: Those eye exercises, right?
45:48
SPEAKER_01: The the looking way to the right and way to the left, it really, it really shifts things very quickly.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: It's just almost an instant.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: We we think it's going to be much harder than it is.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: And the sigh, just so that our listeners understand, is a a manifestation of the release of a it's a nervous system response of release, right?
46:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
46:10
SPEAKER_04: It's just creating more ease, more space.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:13
SPEAKER_04: Isn't is a yawn and a swallow are those parts of them too?
46:17
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: Yawns, swallows, sighs.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: They're all energy shifting in the body.
46:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: So they're all good signs.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm like so calm and ready for bed now.
46:27
SPEAKER_00: So amazing.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: So that's a really good thing that you can teach your kids.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: And I recommend you do this with your kids when you and your kids are calm.
46:39
SPEAKER_00: And then you can come back to this and use it as a tool when they're activated or when you're activated.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: And um, by pre-teaching it, it becomes a tool in the toolkit.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: It will not work if you teach it in an activated state.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't even try.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, but so the science behind it is when we're in fight or flight, we're in this brainstem, that reptilian brain.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: And our sole focus of the brain at that point is to keep us alive because there's stress, there's danger, right?
47:12
SPEAKER_00: Whatever the danger is.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: And what happens when that begins to happen is that vagus nerve shuts down.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: We're no longer thinking clearly because the blood and the brain is mostly in the brainstem, and that's when we can do irrational things or act out in ways that maybe we don't anticipate happening and we can kind of surprise ourselves.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: So, what we're gonna do is a breath pattern and we're gonna combine it with something in our with our hands.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: There's this really cool thing that when we cross our hands, we're crossing our right and left brain meridian.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: And if you have children younger than five, they can't cross their hands.
47:52
SPEAKER_00: And so if you have younger children than five, you can have them just clasp their own hands.
47:58
SPEAKER_00: It's a developmental process that they have to actually grow in that they can cross that right and left brain meridian.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: That's why toddlers can't cross their feet when they're when they're walking.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: And so if you want to experiment with it, you can check it out with your kids.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: But until they're about five, they can't cross that right and left brain meridian.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: It can happen sooner for some, later for others, but five is the the baseline.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna do something called a heart hug.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna teach it in really slow motion.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do two thumbs up and then we're gonna turn them towards each other.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: So now the thumbs are in a line, and then point our thumbs down to the ground.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: So now we have two thumbs down, the outsides of the palms of our, I mean the palms of our hands are facing the wall.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: Open the hands.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: So now they're flat, the backs of the hands are facing each other.
48:45
SPEAKER_00: Cross one hand over the other.
48:47
SPEAKER_03: Doesn't matter which.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Nope, doesn't matter which.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: Clasp the hands and then turn them down and up and in so that they're less resting on your heart.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: And you can feel an instantaneous shift.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: And so by crossing that bright right and left brain meridian with our right and left hand cross, we have put ourselves, put our energy back into our prefrontal cortex.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: And now if we add some breath to that, let's say a square breath, where we breathe in for four, hold for four, breathe out for four, and hold for four.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: It's really, really soothing.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: So let's do it.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: I'll count for you, and we're just gonna breathe slowly in for four, three, two, one, hold for four, three, two, one, exhale for four, three, two, one, hold for four, three, two, one, inhale, four, three, two, one, hold for four, three, two, one, exhale, four, three, two, one, hold, four, three, two, one, inhale, four, three, two, one, exhale.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
50:07
SPEAKER_00: But you get the point.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I want to highlight is did you notice I was slowing down?
50:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: So if if you start with meeting the energy where it is, and then take it to where you want it to be.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it feels really soothing.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: And your kids, they're gonna mock you and make fun of you the first time you try this with them.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: And then the second time you try this with them, they're gonna start leading you.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
50:37
SPEAKER_01: I love those strategies that we can do along with our kids.
50:41
SPEAKER_04: And I love that metaphor: meet them where they're at and then take them where they want to go.
50:46
SPEAKER_04: I mean, so good.
50:48
SPEAKER_04: That's that's it.
50:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love it.
50:52
SPEAKER_04: You are so wonderful.
50:53
SPEAKER_04: This has been so informative.
50:56
SPEAKER_04: I am so grateful.
50:57
SPEAKER_04: Can you tell our listeners how we can find you and what people need to know about you so they can bask in your glory?
51:05
SPEAKER_01: I have a feeling that there might be some listeners who didn't realize they were potentially highly sensitive people until listening to this podcast.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I where can those people find you?
51:19
SPEAKER_01: What would you suggest they do along with finding?
51:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, tell us, tell us all.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: So the hub of everything is brendawinkle.com.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: So for all the stuff I forget to say, it's all on Brendawinkle.com.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm active on Instagram at Brenda Winkle, and I just started on TikTok at Brenda Winkle111.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just started, meaning I don't really know how the app works.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm not very good at it.
51:43
SPEAKER_00: Brenda, but I'm making a really good effort.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, so one of the things that I would invite your listeners to do is to download a free feel better fast guide.
51:54
SPEAKER_00: So this guide walks you through the different senses and different emotions that you might feel and then invites you to think about what brings you joy, what makes you feel really good.
52:06
SPEAKER_00: And the reason that this is useful is when we're really activated, especially if you're highly sensitive, but this goes for anybody.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: When you're activated, sometimes you can't think of ways to feel better.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: You can't think of, oh, what do I even like to do?
52:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: But if you've created this guide when you're calm, then you can print it out, put it on your fridge, you can edit it digitally as well, keep it on your device.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: And then when you have those moments where you're feeling like, oh my gosh, I need to regulate a little bit.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: I want to feel better.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: You can go do one of the things in the list that you came up with for you.
52:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: Is that on your website?
52:45
SPEAKER_00: It is.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: It's at brendawinkle.com forward slash feel better fast, all one word, all lowercase.
52:50
SPEAKER_01: We'll get that in the show notes.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing, Brenda.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: Yay! Wow, I feel like I want to just I want you to come sleep over and keep talking to me.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: We have a slumber party feels.
53:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
53:02
SPEAKER_01: I really I do like to have a slumber party.
53:06
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I'm so glad.
53:07
SPEAKER_04: We have lots of cozy soft language.
53:10
SPEAKER_04: Quiet music because I'm that person that can't deal with sound late at night.
53:15
SPEAKER_04: Change, but my capacity did.
53:17
SPEAKER_04: I learned that about myself today.
53:19
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: Brenda, quick final question for for you.
53:23
SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us?
53:25
SPEAKER_01: We talk so much in this podcast about how important self-care is, quote unquote.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: What do you do to make sure that your brain stays healthy?
53:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I have a lot of things that I do as part of a morning routine.
53:40
SPEAKER_00: I meditate every morning and then I journal.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: And that is sort of non-negotiable.
53:47
SPEAKER_00: I feel like exercise and movement is one of my non-negotiables.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: And I really like to read something.
53:54
SPEAKER_00: And what I read varies just a little bit.
53:56
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I read a novel, sometimes I read something else, or sometimes both.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: Like I've got two going right now.
54:03
SPEAKER_00: I've got The Lost Girls of Paris and The Big Leap going all at the same time.
54:08
SPEAKER_03: We love both.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: We love folks.
54:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, Brenda, I'm really grateful.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: We are really grateful for your time with us tonight.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for showing up.
54:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, safe travels going to Bali.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we should just jump in her suitcase.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: We can have a slumber party in Bali.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
54:26
SPEAKER_00: That should be a title of a book.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
54:32
SPEAKER_04: Yes, you are so wonderful.
54:34
SPEAKER_04: Have a good night.
54:35
SPEAKER_04: Thanks, Brenda.
54:37
SPEAKER_01: Hey, you guys, it's Kate.
54:39
SPEAKER_01: We really hope you enjoyed this week's episode.
54:41
SPEAKER_01: And if you did, go ahead and share it with a friend.
54:44
SPEAKER_01: It also would mean the world to me and Deb if you would take a minute and write a review.
54:49
SPEAKER_01: If this podcast makes you laugh, makes you cry in the best of ways, helps you feel less alone, gives you information that's useful to you in your mothering journey.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: If you write a review, it will make this more accessible to other mothers like you.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: So take a minute.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: We'd be so grateful.
55:05
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.