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Jim Morrison Is Alive · Conspiracy! The Show

0:10
Speaker 1: Winter Insurance. I'm true troth, I'm a check cut with insurance,
0:15
Speaker 1: good actue. That is.
0:31
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy The Show. I'm your host
0:36
Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown joining me as co host This week,
0:39
Speaker 2: Connor's here. How's it going Many? We are talking about
0:44
Speaker 2: some ship this week. This was sort of an emergency
0:48
Speaker 2: episode because I found out this documentary existed a couple
0:53
Speaker 2: of days ago and then had to swing into action
0:57
Speaker 2: to record an episode about it. It kind of ties
1:00
Speaker 2: into a bonus episode that's going up this week where
1:04
Speaker 2: we do a track by track review of the first
1:08
Speaker 2: and only Charles Manson album.
1:10
Speaker 3: True Charles Manson album, The Og The Real One, Yeah,
1:14
Speaker 3: with Charlie singing none of this, none of this, fucking
1:18
Speaker 3: the Doors, other voices, shit.
1:21
Speaker 2: The family band. God. We're talking about Jim Morrison and
1:27
Speaker 2: the theory that maybe he faked his death back in
1:32
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one. I believe it was and not only
1:36
Speaker 2: that faked his death and is live and well residing
1:41
Speaker 2: in Syracuse, New York.
1:43
Speaker 3: Now, this was a big chocker to me as as
1:46
Speaker 3: a big conspiracy had and a big Doors fan. I
1:49
Speaker 3: think everyone just for the most part, was like this
1:52
Speaker 3: guy seems so much like a dude who winds up
1:54
Speaker 3: dead in the bathtub that when you said you wind
1:56
Speaker 3: up dead in the bathtub, we all just believed you
1:59
Speaker 3: and didn't invest the get any further.
2:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a death I've never looked at really
2:05
Speaker 2: from a conspiracy standpoint, because you're right, he does seem
2:09
Speaker 2: like someone who would just die because of the way
2:13
Speaker 2: he lived.
2:14
Speaker 3: And then soon asked why, And there's the hot dogs
2:16
Speaker 3: and cocaine. Okay, all right, sure, I'll tell you. I'll
2:20
Speaker 3: take that as an explanation.
2:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. The only conspiracy I've ever really heard about Jim
2:26
Speaker 2: Morrison was that he might have been a government agent,
2:29
Speaker 2: And let me tell you, this documentary kind of undoes
2:32
Speaker 2: that theory for me.
2:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think he was just more like
2:35
Speaker 3: a military brat.
2:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was definitely a child of military people, just
2:41
Speaker 2: like everyone else who made music in the sixties. Seems
2:44
Speaker 2: like they were, especially that Laurel Canyon scene. We did
2:47
Speaker 2: an episode about that years ago.
2:50
Speaker 3: It seems like the recipe to a like a timeless
2:52
Speaker 3: psychedelic rock album was like one flat top father figure
2:55
Speaker 3: telling you that you just.
2:56
Speaker 2: Couldn't Yeah, exactly, And we are talking about this by
3:02
Speaker 2: way of a documentary called Before the End searching for
3:07
Speaker 2: Jim Morrison. I only knew this existed because I read
3:11
Speaker 2: an article about it the other day that was like,
3:14
Speaker 2: holy shit. This documentary has been on Apple tv Plus
3:17
Speaker 2: since January and nobody has said anything about it.
3:22
Speaker 3: It doesn't really do itself any favors in that it
3:25
Speaker 3: is a spoiler alert. One of the worst looking documentaries
3:29
Speaker 3: or even pieces of media I have ever seen. From
3:32
Speaker 3: an editing directing standpoint. It is visually very very ugly.
3:37
Speaker 3: It frequently goes into this like negative film effect, so
3:41
Speaker 3: everything is like the opposite color. But that's not really
3:44
Speaker 3: helping it. But then you look at what the source
3:47
Speaker 3: material was that's being inverted in it's not that interesting anyway,
3:50
Speaker 3: so you're like, maybe this does help it. It's just
3:53
Speaker 3: this really bad aesthetic choice among many bad aesthetic choices
3:58
Speaker 3: that permeate the entire three episode documentary.
4:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. I feel like, we could absolutely
4:04
Speaker 2: get this filmmaker on the pod, but I would feel
4:10
Speaker 2: bad being like honest about the documentary itself, the information
4:16
Speaker 2: in it, the people he talks to, that's all really interesting.
4:19
Speaker 2: But you're right, the way it's executed.
4:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, he takes a very revelatory story and he manages
4:26
Speaker 3: to make it almost kind of a slug.
4:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's for one thing, it's too long. It's much
4:32
Speaker 2: like most episodic documentaries. This one could have lost an
4:36
Speaker 2: entire episode, definitely.
4:39
Speaker 3: And this is someone who doesn't mind hearing a bunch
4:41
Speaker 3: of fun childhood stories about Ju Morrison being a scamp
4:43
Speaker 3: like that. Stuff was all great.
4:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it could have been condensed into I mean,
4:49
Speaker 2: this could have been ninety minutes, and yeah, we would
4:51
Speaker 2: have been perfectly fine. And I think it would have
4:54
Speaker 2: been better if it was shorter, Like a lot of
4:57
Speaker 2: documentaries would be better if they were shorter.
5:00
Speaker 3: More impactful at least, I mean, I guess, like I imagine,
5:02
Speaker 3: when you start making something like this, you get so
5:05
Speaker 3: obsessed with like dotting all your fucking eyes and crossing
5:09
Speaker 3: all your t's, that you sort of think that everyone
5:12
Speaker 3: else is holding you to the same standard, and you
5:15
Speaker 3: kind of forget that you're the only one who cares
5:17
Speaker 3: like that. This happens in a lot of creative projects.
5:18
Speaker 3: You get too close to it and you realize that
5:21
Speaker 3: not everyone is thinking about the subgradient color of the
5:25
Speaker 3: third layer of the photoshop project. You know, so it
5:29
Speaker 3: to me screamed of needing an editor at least.
5:33
Speaker 2: And it gave me YouTube documentary vibes like maybe that's
5:37
Speaker 2: where it started.
5:39
Speaker 3: And then, let's be honest, loose change looked better. This
5:42
Speaker 3: change looked better. In two thousand and one, lose change
5:44
Speaker 3: looked better.
5:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, in that way, it's a challenge to get through
5:49
Speaker 2: because it gets like actually annoying in parts, just the
5:54
Speaker 2: creative choices they're making, like the way the dates would
5:58
Speaker 2: like blow away dust in the wind when they.
6:01
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it like a lot a lot of the
6:04
Speaker 3: creative choices they'd make. I would be like, okay, yes,
6:07
Speaker 3: I too have seen a YouTube tutorial. Yes, I too
6:11
Speaker 3: have been excited by the fact that I could make
6:12
Speaker 3: numbers blow away in the wind. But much like the
6:17
Speaker 3: the star wipe, you know, it's a strong spice in
6:20
Speaker 3: the editor's toolbox.
6:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, it came off like this guy took a Courserra
6:26
Speaker 2: class on video effects and was like, I'm doing all
6:30
Speaker 2: of that.
6:32
Speaker 3: I think that look I looked at it the editor's dave,
6:33
Speaker 3: because the editor is a different guy than the guy
6:35
Speaker 3: who made it, and he had some kind of alias
6:37
Speaker 3: like he was like serpent like that.
6:41
Speaker 2: So I wonder if it was just the filmmaker trying
6:44
Speaker 2: to be clever. Who knows. But the information in the
6:49
Speaker 2: documentary is very interesting and I think very compelling in parts.
6:54
Speaker 2: I think this documentary should have just been the interview
6:58
Speaker 2: with Frank to watch that whole entire interview.
7:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did kind of wanted. I always wanted to
7:05
Speaker 3: see more of that uncut, but instead he sort of
7:08
Speaker 3: pieced it out bit by bit while he sort of
7:10
Speaker 3: like tediously over justified every part of the story.
7:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is, especially in that near the end of
7:19
Speaker 2: the first episode kind of into the second episode, you
7:23
Speaker 2: can tell he's I think justify is the right word,
7:26
Speaker 2: like the there's something that happens in one of these
7:28
Speaker 2: interviews and you realize that the last like twenty minutes
7:33
Speaker 2: of him talking to childhood friends of Jim Morrison was
7:37
Speaker 2: just all building up to that one thing. And I
7:41
Speaker 2: don't know, I thought the interview stuff was way more interesting.
7:45
Speaker 3: Well, I'm reading here that Steve Schuster, the editor of
7:48
Speaker 3: Before the End in Search of Jim Morrison, is actually
7:50
Speaker 3: one of the most sought after up and coming editors
7:52
Speaker 3: in Hollywood recently successfully transitioning for marketing. He now works
7:56
Speaker 3: with filmmakers and network studios and producers to graft film
8:00
Speaker 3: and television projects. So maybe I was wrong about this guy.
8:03
Speaker 2: So this was a pro who did this.
8:06
Speaker 3: I shouldn't do this. This is mean. It's mean. They
8:08
Speaker 3: would just read somebody's fucking comedy bio or professional bio.
8:14
Speaker 2: So this documentary opens with backstory about the Doors. If
8:19
Speaker 2: people aren't familiar, the Doors were uh sixties rock band.
8:23
Speaker 2: They were. If I've heard Billy Corgan make this comparison himself,
8:29
Speaker 2: he said, if Nirvana was the Beatles of the nineties,
8:33
Speaker 2: Smashing Pumpkins were the Doors of the nineties. So just
8:37
Speaker 2: flip that The Doors were basically the Smashing Pumpkins of
8:40
Speaker 2: the sixties. They were the other really really huge band.
8:45
Speaker 2: But I think they were probably the biggest American band
8:50
Speaker 2: of that time.
8:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so, because the experience was English. Yeah,
8:55
Speaker 3: probably we're the biggest American band. And they toured too.
8:57
Speaker 3: They didn't like stop touring like the Beatles and going
8:59
Speaker 3: this two udo like they think. They were doing big
9:02
Speaker 3: ass shows.
9:03
Speaker 2: And they didn't sound like any other band of that time.
9:09
Speaker 2: I would argue for one thing, they didn't have a
9:10
Speaker 2: bass player, which that's interesting, but they had a keyboard player,
9:15
Speaker 2: and I think ray Manzeric, the keyboard player, kind of
9:18
Speaker 2: filled in the gaps where there was no base. I
9:21
Speaker 2: fucking love the Doors.
9:23
Speaker 3: I'm a huge, huge Doors fan. There's a great John
9:25
Speaker 3: denzb I don't know the I don't remember the name
9:29
Speaker 3: of it, but but definitely if you're a Doors fan,
9:31
Speaker 3: check out Don John Densmore's book. There's lots of interesting
9:34
Speaker 3: shit in there. Yeah. I think there's way overheted. I
9:37
Speaker 3: think it became very in vogue, very fashionable to kind
9:40
Speaker 3: of be too cool for the Doors, And I don't
9:44
Speaker 3: really know why. The musicianship is like undeniable. I think
9:49
Speaker 3: the poetry is like it at the most critical viewing
9:53
Speaker 3: of the poetry is that it's fine. Is that it's
9:56
Speaker 3: like an adequate impression of poetry. You know, It's like,
9:59
Speaker 3: even if you know the it is the deepest thing
10:00
Speaker 3: in the world, like I'm with you, but I can't
10:03
Speaker 3: say it's it doesn't sound nice. Yeah, you know, like
10:06
Speaker 3: writers on the store man.
10:07
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people take their idea of
10:11
Speaker 2: what Jim Morrison was probably like as a person, which
10:14
Speaker 2: he does seem like he was an overbearing human being,
10:17
Speaker 2: and he seems like a bit much a lot of ways,
10:20
Speaker 2: And I think they just project that onto the music
10:23
Speaker 2: as if, oh, well, the music's annoying too, and know
10:25
Speaker 2: the music, but even pretty good.
10:26
Speaker 3: Even as a guy who's a bit much as a
10:28
Speaker 3: stand up comedian, I've been around people that are a
10:30
Speaker 3: bit much my entire adult life. Yeah, you come to
10:33
Speaker 3: realize there are people that are like, performatively a bit much,
10:36
Speaker 3: and there's people that are authentically a bit much. He
10:39
Speaker 3: strikes me as authentically a bit much. He came out
10:42
Speaker 3: the womb a little bit much.
10:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, he was an experience to be around. Yes,
10:48
Speaker 2: like and yeah, I think and just that in the poetry.
10:52
Speaker 2: I think people just kind of hear poet and they're like, okay.
10:55
Speaker 3: Shut okay, doing jack off motion with hand.
10:59
Speaker 2: But that was what he brought to the doors. He
11:02
Speaker 2: wrote the lyrics to all those songs, and no one
11:05
Speaker 2: else wrote lyrics like him in his voice. Fucking ruled.
11:09
Speaker 3: He's a fucking incredible singer. That's the other thing, lest
11:13
Speaker 3: we forget about that.
11:14
Speaker 2: And I found that part interesting. When they were talking
11:17
Speaker 2: to his childhood friends, most of them were like we
11:22
Speaker 2: never heard that dude sing, Like we had no clue
11:25
Speaker 2: that he was a singer.
11:26
Speaker 3: That was really interesting. He seemed like super shy about
11:29
Speaker 3: all that, Like he's like, yeah, I know he could
11:31
Speaker 3: be a rock star, but like I'm not gonna be
11:33
Speaker 3: like all extra about it. Like oddly reserved he was.
11:37
Speaker 3: He seemed like, you know, maybe he's waiting for like
11:40
Speaker 3: UCLA to go reinvent himself. He needed a new change
11:43
Speaker 3: of scenery. Some people need that.
11:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was one of, if not the first
11:49
Speaker 2: rock star to ever be arrested on stage. That happened
11:53
Speaker 2: in new Haven, Connecticut.
11:55
Speaker 3: On some bullshit no less right.
11:57
Speaker 4: Yeah.
11:57
Speaker 2: In both cases. In new Haven it was just they
12:00
Speaker 2: said he was like being obscene, and he really wasn't.
12:04
Speaker 3: He just signed some Elvis stuff just like gyrating and
12:07
Speaker 3: shit or yeah.
12:08
Speaker 2: And in Miami they said he showed his dick.
12:10
Speaker 3: He's like, it's not my fault if you could see
12:12
Speaker 3: it through my pants.
12:13
Speaker 2: Okay, I've seen a picture where it looks like what
12:16
Speaker 2: he actually did was put his hand in his pants
12:20
Speaker 2: and then zip his pants down and stuck his finger
12:22
Speaker 2: out through his fly.
12:24
Speaker 3: Oh yep, all just tricking the book.
12:26
Speaker 2: And they were like, good enough, we'll arrest you for that.
12:28
Speaker 2: Why not? This is Florida, pal So at the time
12:32
Speaker 2: he died, he was facing six months in prison, which
12:35
Speaker 2: that doesn't seem like a stiff enough fine to want
12:39
Speaker 2: to like throw it all away and fake your own death.
12:42
Speaker 3: But maybe, I mean, I get it. You're Jim Morrison,
12:44
Speaker 3: you're pretty. You don't want to go to prison.
12:46
Speaker 2: But yeah, and I think it was like a labor
12:48
Speaker 2: camp type of prison too.
12:51
Speaker 3: Oh, like some weird like Sheriff Joe Arizona shit where
12:55
Speaker 3: you live in a tent and.
12:56
Speaker 2: Chain gang shit.
12:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you've never work today in your adult life,
13:01
Speaker 3: I could see wanted to throw it through, you know,
13:04
Speaker 3: fucked his life. I'm not doing six whole months. I'm
13:07
Speaker 3: twenty seven. That's most of the time I've been alive,
13:09
Speaker 3: six months.
13:10
Speaker 2: So the events of his death are weird. He flees
13:13
Speaker 2: to Paris, presumably because he is sick of the fame
13:18
Speaker 2: and also that six month prison sentence hanging over his head,
13:22
Speaker 2: so he's just trying to decompress a little bit, get
13:25
Speaker 2: out of the country. Goes to Paris with his then
13:27
Speaker 2: girlfriend Pamela Corson or just friend. It's really unclear. She
13:32
Speaker 2: was probably his CIA handler or something, because they talk
13:36
Speaker 2: about how they were just platonic and she was like
13:38
Speaker 2: seeing all these drug dealers. But they also moved to
13:42
Speaker 2: Paris together. He ends up being there less than four
13:45
Speaker 2: months before he dies. The doctors who treated him are
13:49
Speaker 2: an interesting detail here because no one, it seems, has
13:53
Speaker 2: ever been able to confirm their existence, the doctor who
13:57
Speaker 2: signed his death certificate, and also so there's a doctor
14:01
Speaker 2: who is supposed to have prescribed him asthma medication, and
14:06
Speaker 2: at least according to Jeff Finn, the person who made
14:09
Speaker 2: this documentary, neither of those people have ever been confirmed
14:12
Speaker 2: to actually exist, which that's weird if true. It's also
14:17
Speaker 2: kind of weird that he died of natural causes at
14:19
Speaker 2: twenty seven.
14:20
Speaker 3: It's and the doctor thing, the fact that nobody was like,
14:23
Speaker 3: nobody saw that until old Jeff Finn millennial doors fan.
14:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if the missing doctors came up, Like,
14:33
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's the one who first found
14:36
Speaker 2: that detail, because this conspiracy's been kicking around for a
14:39
Speaker 2: long time. Because there's also the coffin thing. That's the
14:43
Speaker 2: weirdest part to me. Jim Morrison is supposed to have
14:46
Speaker 2: died in an apartment in Paris, and as is customary,
14:51
Speaker 2: someone brought a coffin to the apartment. He was sealed
14:55
Speaker 2: inside that coffin and his family never saw him after.
15:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, that's normal. That's a French burial.
15:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely normal. So it's because of shit like that
15:07
Speaker 2: that people are like, Okay, well maybe he faked his
15:11
Speaker 2: own death. One more weird detail. When Pam churus And
15:15
Speaker 2: flies back to America after Jim Morrison dies, she has
15:19
Speaker 2: the steel box full of a bunch of his poems
15:22
Speaker 2: and shit and it has the phrase one two seven
15:25
Speaker 2: fascination written on it, which write it down. That'll be
15:30
Speaker 2: important later. So the real story of this documentary starts
15:35
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen. The filmmaker Jeff Finn says he was
15:38
Speaker 2: pretty much done with the documentary at that point, but
15:41
Speaker 2: then a guy named Frank reaches out to him through
15:46
Speaker 2: the Facebook page that he had set up for this movie,
15:49
Speaker 2: and Frank sends him a picture. And this picture on
15:54
Speaker 2: the right our right there left is clearly John Densmore,
15:59
Speaker 2: who was the drummer in the doors, and standing next
16:05
Speaker 2: to him is an older man with a big white beard,
16:10
Speaker 2: white hair who looks a whole lot like Jim Morrison
16:14
Speaker 2: a lot.
16:15
Speaker 4: Do you agree, Yeah, it's pretty like you sort of
16:21
Speaker 4: you see the picture, they reveal the picture and you're like,
16:23
Speaker 4: do you even need there's three more episodes after the
16:25
Speaker 4: shit that's obviously Jim Morrison.
16:26
Speaker 3: He's a lie.
16:27
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's one of my main gripes with this documentary.
16:30
Speaker 2: I was on board like midway through episode one, like
16:34
Speaker 2: I didn't really need to be convinced because that picture
16:37
Speaker 2: and then a bunch of stuff that happens when they
16:40
Speaker 2: interview the guy in that picture, I feel like, there's
16:43
Speaker 2: no way it's not Jim Morrison. But they do run
16:46
Speaker 2: an interesting thing at the end of this documentary where
16:50
Speaker 2: this picture they bring it back out, but Jeff Finn
16:55
Speaker 2: sets it up to wear three of Jim Morrison's ex
16:58
Speaker 2: girlfriends all look at this picture and he tells them, all, right,
17:02
Speaker 2: flip up the right side first. And they flip up
17:05
Speaker 2: the right side and they're like, oh, that's obviously John Densmore.
17:08
Speaker 2: I would know that face anywhere. And then they flip
17:12
Speaker 2: up the left side and there's this Jim Morrison looking fella,
17:16
Speaker 2: and every single one of them is like, oh, shit,
17:19
Speaker 2: that looks like Jim Morrison. And it does. And what's
17:24
Speaker 2: even weirder is Jim Morrison had a mole on his
17:28
Speaker 2: face and this Frank fella has a scar where that
17:31
Speaker 2: mole would have been. And the only real important difference
17:37
Speaker 2: is Frank has brown eyes and Jim Morrison had blue eyes.
17:41
Speaker 2: But even that comes up later and they're able to
17:44
Speaker 2: explain it.
17:45
Speaker 3: I think, yeah that, like, yeah, that close up shot
17:48
Speaker 3: towards the end of his eyes was pretty uh chilling
17:51
Speaker 3: because there was I guess enough plausible deniability. I would think, like, I,
17:55
Speaker 3: what about the eyes thing? Like, is it contacts? As
17:58
Speaker 3: a really really an old man going around putting in
18:00
Speaker 3: brown contacts every day? You know, like the only people
18:03
Speaker 3: I know who put in colored contacts every day or furries,
18:06
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's a hassle.
18:09
Speaker 2: But yeah, that close up picture of his eyes, there
18:11
Speaker 2: is a blue ring around the outside of his eyes,
18:15
Speaker 2: and I don't know if that's a normal thing. It
18:18
Speaker 2: seems like it's not. So this Frank guy, he somehow
18:22
Speaker 2: is also Facebook friends with a bunch of Jim Morrison's
18:26
Speaker 2: former friends that parts.
18:27
Speaker 3: But who isn't I keep up with? I keep up
18:29
Speaker 3: with John Den's Bar and ray Raymond Zeric's Ghost and
18:32
Speaker 3: the rest.
18:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yeah he is raymn Xeric the one who died,
18:36
Speaker 2: I think, so, yeah, I know one of them died.
18:38
Speaker 3: Well. He did a pretty excellent Doors John raparody with
18:42
Speaker 3: Weird Al called Craig's List. He actually had Raymond's Eric play,
18:46
Speaker 3: uh keyboards on it and uh, it's pretty funny.
18:49
Speaker 2: What song was it a parody of?
18:52
Speaker 3: It? Was? It was my favorite the Weird Al originals. Oh,
18:56
Speaker 3: it's just just the John repaired. He just sounds like
18:59
Speaker 3: the Doors, but it's and it's a song about Craigslist.
19:01
Speaker 2: I like that. So Frank reaches out to Jeff Finn
19:06
Speaker 2: and he says that he met the Doors once backstage
19:10
Speaker 2: at a show in New York in nineteen sixty eight,
19:14
Speaker 2: and that that was the extent of their interaction. Jeff
19:19
Speaker 2: asked for a picture of Frank from back then, and
19:23
Speaker 2: a few days pass and then Frank sends him an
19:26
Speaker 2: old ID card from nineteen seventy eight. Problem is, Jeff Finn,
19:31
Speaker 2: the filmmaker immediately finds a guy in Syracuse, New York,
19:37
Speaker 2: with that exact same first, middle, and last name who
19:40
Speaker 2: died in twenty fifteen, and that guy and the guy
19:44
Speaker 2: in the ID look a whole lot alike, and they
19:47
Speaker 2: mention that there is something that happens in the intelligence
19:51
Speaker 2: community a lot, but that also could happen when a
19:55
Speaker 2: person fakes the death, which is called piggybacking, where you
19:58
Speaker 2: convince someone to let you use their real ID consensually
20:03
Speaker 2: for whatever covert means you need to use it for.
20:06
Speaker 3: It's the deal that Adam and I set up when
20:08
Speaker 3: we started doing Conspiracy the show exactly.
20:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, whenever I get pulled over, I say, I am
20:13
Speaker 2: Connor mcspadden. Those are my drugs in the console. So
20:17
Speaker 2: I go to jail, but it ends up on Connor's record.
20:19
Speaker 3: It's and I in turn use my buddy from high
20:23
Speaker 3: school's name, so it kicks it down to him.
20:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
20:27
Speaker 3: We just basically have like a sort of a toilet
20:30
Speaker 3: filtration system of identities where it's just it gets worse
20:33
Speaker 3: and worse until you get to the end, which I
20:35
Speaker 3: think is is my friend's other friend. I don't know
20:40
Speaker 3: exactly where it ends.
20:41
Speaker 2: So Jeff goes to Syracuse to try and talk to
20:45
Speaker 2: this Frank guy because he does not think Frank is
20:48
Speaker 2: the same person in that ID picture, and I agree
20:53
Speaker 2: that Frank looks more like Jim Morrison than the person
20:57
Speaker 2: in this ID.
20:58
Speaker 3: He looks enough like Jim Morrison for like a cop
21:01
Speaker 3: that doesn't give a shit, you know, or like a
21:03
Speaker 3: bouncer at a bar, like you know.
21:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, if he had an ID and it said Jim Morrison,
21:09
Speaker 2: you'd be like, yeah, sure, they're still alive. He gets
21:12
Speaker 2: a call from Frank after he goes to Syracuse, and
21:14
Speaker 2: he brings a private investigator with him. She's going to
21:17
Speaker 2: be important later, and they agree to meet. And this
21:20
Speaker 2: guy he meets does still look like Jim Morrison. He
21:24
Speaker 2: looks like he's maybe lost weight then when he was
21:27
Speaker 2: in that picture with John Densmore, which was apparently around
21:30
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, I think. But it's clearly the same guy
21:35
Speaker 2: in the picture. I mean, Frank is the one who
21:36
Speaker 2: sent him the picture. And you gotta wonder why if
21:40
Speaker 2: he is just someone who met the Doors once at
21:44
Speaker 2: a concert in nineteen sixty eight, why would he reach
21:47
Speaker 2: out assuming this filmmaker is going to want to talk
21:50
Speaker 2: to him at all. That seems as weird to me
21:53
Speaker 2: as anything. If he's not Jim Morrison.
21:55
Speaker 3: This is getting ahead of ourselves a little bit. But
21:58
Speaker 3: I think one thing that you said when you first
22:01
Speaker 3: introduced me to the documentary that with this in mind,
22:03
Speaker 3: it put a lot of the events in context, was
22:06
Speaker 3: that I think we're dealing with the somewhat senile Jim Morrison. Yes,
22:11
Speaker 3: who's like half remembers the old life, half remembers the
22:15
Speaker 3: fucking lie, half remembers to keep it up, half doesn't.
22:18
Speaker 3: And he just says this kind of like weird contradictory shit,
22:21
Speaker 3: but it belays the fact that he knows a little
22:24
Speaker 3: bit too much about what he's not supposed to know about. Yeah,
22:28
Speaker 3: and he sort of tells on himself.
22:30
Speaker 2: And we know Jim Morrison was a big drinker. They
22:34
Speaker 2: bring that up when they talk to his childhood friends.
22:37
Speaker 2: They're like, man, that dude was drinking straight from the
22:39
Speaker 2: bottle when we were in high school.
22:40
Speaker 3: He still parties on some level, because he stops the
22:43
Speaker 3: doc for like five minutes so he can go have
22:45
Speaker 3: a smoke outside of Denny's.
22:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, it seems like if this is Jim Morrison,
22:51
Speaker 2: it is a reduced mental capacity Jim Morrison, and probably
22:57
Speaker 2: alcohol related.
22:59
Speaker 3: It was a barn call the windows.
23:02
Speaker 2: Because he's definitely. Jim Morrison. He died. He is said
23:06
Speaker 2: to have died when he was twenty seven, So it's
23:09
Speaker 2: perfectly reasonable that he could still be alive. All of
23:12
Speaker 2: these childhood friends they're talking to are still alive. A
23:15
Speaker 2: couple people from the Doors are still alive. Jim Morrison
23:18
Speaker 2: could still be alive. That's not impossible at all.
23:21
Speaker 3: Elvis is still alive, Yeah, exactly. Elvis is probably dead now,
23:25
Speaker 3: but he was alive for quite a while.
23:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is dead in Argentina somewhere.
23:30
Speaker 3: Now. Only the most American and the most sexual rock
23:33
Speaker 3: stars survive to fake their death, Elvis, Jim Morrison, you
23:37
Speaker 3: really got to be v rile. Yeah, to p Usa Qupac,
23:41
Speaker 3: that's a great one. Yeah, that's a perfect example. How
23:44
Speaker 3: do you want it? So?
23:47
Speaker 2: I found this part really interesting. If you know anything
23:51
Speaker 2: about Jim Morrison. We've already mentioned it poetry, that dude
23:55
Speaker 2: loved some goddamn poets. And Frank is supposed to be
24:00
Speaker 2: this just nondescript maintenance man who grew up in upstate
24:07
Speaker 2: New York something like that, you know. So Jeff Finn
24:10
Speaker 2: is like, hey, who's your favorite poet? And Frank goes
24:16
Speaker 2: on at length about a bunch of different poets, and
24:21
Speaker 2: they are all the same ones that Jim Morrison's childhood
24:25
Speaker 2: friends say he was absolutely obsessed with, including one named Baudelaire,
24:31
Speaker 2: and they talk about how much of a reader Jim
24:34
Speaker 2: Morrison was, how much he loved that particular poet, and
24:38
Speaker 2: at first, all these interviews with his high school friends
24:42
Speaker 2: they do drag on for too long, but they are
24:45
Speaker 2: also building to something because they're confirming details that Frank
24:50
Speaker 2: will bring up later in this interview and what that
24:55
Speaker 2: detail is. At one point, and this was the point
24:59
Speaker 2: in the dot com memory where I was like, all right,
25:01
Speaker 2: I'm on board. He's going on. Frank, the guy who
25:05
Speaker 2: this filmmaker thinks might be Jim Morrison, is just going
25:08
Speaker 2: on at length about all of these poets he loves
25:12
Speaker 2: and all of you know, just poetry in general. And
25:16
Speaker 2: then just like veers off and asks about this girl
25:21
Speaker 2: named Mary that Jim Morrison dated in college and then
25:26
Speaker 2: flew out to La from Florida for a while. And
25:30
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, you remember, remember Jim Morrison had that
25:33
Speaker 2: girlfriend Mary who he flew out to LA. Did you
25:38
Speaker 2: talk to her at all? And what? Like, how's she doing?
25:42
Speaker 2: What did she think about Jim?
25:44
Speaker 3: Yeah? Has she been on my Facebook?
25:46
Speaker 2: And it's like, why would this man be asking about
25:49
Speaker 2: this random girlfriend that Jim Morrison had at one point,
25:54
Speaker 2: And we later find out one of the friends they
25:57
Speaker 2: ask if they think Jim Morrison could have faked his death,
26:01
Speaker 2: and she's like, yeah, he could have, but the only
26:05
Speaker 2: reason I think he didn't is he loved that Mary
26:07
Speaker 2: girl too much and he would have come back and
26:10
Speaker 2: like checked in on her in some way. And now
26:13
Speaker 2: here's Frank just randomly bringing up this marry girl who
26:17
Speaker 2: he should have no fucking knowledge of at all. He
26:21
Speaker 2: didn't know Jim Morrison, he didn't know the doors, so
26:24
Speaker 2: how does he know about this Mary woman.
26:27
Speaker 3: It's almost like Frank thought he could get some interview,
26:30
Speaker 3: get some info out of the documentary documentarian, Yeah, you
26:33
Speaker 3: know about like like you know, hey, like you did
26:36
Speaker 3: all the digging for me, like what's going on with
26:37
Speaker 3: my old life? But like I'm not going to let
26:40
Speaker 3: you in on the you know, like you'll never even
26:42
Speaker 3: you on. I'm just some other guy, you know, I'll
26:44
Speaker 3: blend in with all the other interviews. Yeah, which is
26:47
Speaker 3: kind of insane when you're asking these insanely specific questions
26:50
Speaker 3: like this is like if there was like this is
26:52
Speaker 3: like if there was like a seventy year old man
26:54
Speaker 3: who couldn't grow a beard that was wearing a Yugo
26:57
Speaker 3: T shirt. And I was like, I'm not Connor. M'spadden'd
27:00
Speaker 3: just like all of his same favorite bands from him
27:02
Speaker 3: when he was twelve years old, like Gorilla's and Nels
27:05
Speaker 3: Barkley and uh, what's it with Jordan saida how's she
27:09
Speaker 3: doing from Ontario? Yeah?
27:12
Speaker 2: And also, you know, just a coincidence that if you
27:14
Speaker 2: put Connor in that guy's voice in you know, Audacity
27:18
Speaker 2: or something, the waveforms are going to be exactly the same.
27:20
Speaker 2: But that's that happens in this too. But one of
27:24
Speaker 2: something Frank says and something Jim Morrison says in the
27:27
Speaker 2: same like waveform and matches up really well.
27:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's even the the editing is so bad. But
27:34
Speaker 3: even as janki as the editing is, it can't make
27:36
Speaker 3: the evidence look bad. Yeah, you want to be skeptical
27:40
Speaker 3: throughout this whole documentary, but you're like sold from the
27:42
Speaker 3: first twenty minutes.
27:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they talk a lot about this theory that
27:47
Speaker 2: Jim Morrison might have been sexually abused as a child,
27:52
Speaker 2: And I don't know exactly how that ties into the
27:56
Speaker 2: story that's being told here. I mean, I guess speaks
28:01
Speaker 2: to him maybe having some trauma and wanting to get away,
28:04
Speaker 2: but I don't know. It felt like a tangent to me.
28:08
Speaker 3: Oh. The Jim Morrison molestation drawings, that was my favorite
28:12
Speaker 3: part of the whole movie.
28:14
Speaker 2: They were definitely strange.
28:16
Speaker 3: I look, I've been molested, and then Jim Morrison was molested.
28:20
Speaker 3: That's my take. I saw that drawing and I was like,
28:22
Speaker 3: that boy was touched.
28:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. The filmmaker does say he showed him to a
28:27
Speaker 2: psychologist and they were like, call the police, whoever that
28:30
Speaker 2: kid is, call the police.
28:32
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. It's like the guys like like the
28:35
Speaker 3: like there's a dragon that's clearly the dad with the
28:38
Speaker 3: fucking hand coming out of its pants, like all this
28:40
Speaker 3: like it could not be more like like the rest
28:42
Speaker 3: of this documentary. It could not be more on the
28:44
Speaker 3: nose than obvious.
28:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so by this point I was pretty much sold.
28:49
Speaker 2: Once he veered off and started talking about Mary, I
28:52
Speaker 2: was already pretty much on board. But then the private
28:56
Speaker 2: investigator calls with some information. One she claims Jim Morrison's
29:03
Speaker 2: Social Security number was still active in upstate New York
29:07
Speaker 2: as of twenty twenty one, and also that this Frank
29:11
Speaker 2: fella he's talking to has two social Security numbers, and
29:16
Speaker 2: one of them starts with one two seven, just like
29:20
Speaker 2: the inscription on the box Pamela Corson brought home from France,
29:25
Speaker 2: which said one two seven. Fascination on it? What the fuck?
29:29
Speaker 2: What is that? Why? Why? But like that's so weird,
29:33
Speaker 2: really weird.
29:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just forget about that listener.
29:37
Speaker 2: So that part's weird. And then another This is why
29:40
Speaker 2: I wish the interview was the whole documentary, because then
29:43
Speaker 2: there's the swim team moment. This filmmaker knows a ship
29:46
Speaker 2: ton about Jim Morrison, and one of the things he
29:49
Speaker 2: knows is Jim Morrison was a competitive swimmer in high school.
29:54
Speaker 2: So he asks Frank something about being a competitive swimmer,
29:59
Speaker 2: and Frank, I think, starts to say something like, oh, yeah,
30:02
Speaker 2: when we were out there, and then he like gets
30:04
Speaker 2: this look in his eyes and stops and goes, no,
30:08
Speaker 2: I was never a competitive swimmer. It's like, yeah, you were.
30:13
Speaker 2: You were about to talk about it, so.
30:16
Speaker 3: Back when you were in the Mob. I have never
30:18
Speaker 3: been into the MOB. I have sold aluminum siding in
30:20
Speaker 3: the Greater Nevada areas, and so.
30:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really weird moment. And it's another moment
30:26
Speaker 2: in that interview that makes me feel like, yeah, this
30:29
Speaker 2: is probably Jim Morrison they're talking to. So as much
30:33
Speaker 2: as I was sold on this by the end of
30:37
Speaker 2: episode one, about halfway through episode two I was like,
30:40
Speaker 2: why does this episode exist? Because this is meaningless. The
30:46
Speaker 2: second episode it really like it goes more into detail
30:51
Speaker 2: about the abuse stuff, but most of the interesting things
30:55
Speaker 2: that happen in episode two just could have been tagged
30:58
Speaker 2: on to episode one or read.
31:00
Speaker 3: I think it's kind of a tangent episode.
31:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. He tries to call this woman who wrote a
31:07
Speaker 2: book named Linda Ashcroft. She wrote a book that at
31:11
Speaker 2: one point had a chapter about Jim Morrison being sexually
31:14
Speaker 2: abused and she got sued and had to remove it.
31:18
Speaker 2: He tries to call her. He calls her Ginger at
31:21
Speaker 2: first because that was apparently her nickname, and he's trying
31:23
Speaker 2: to catch her off guard. But this is the scene
31:25
Speaker 2: Connor was talking about earlier, where all of it is
31:28
Speaker 2: For some reason, this like reverse negative type feel to it,
31:33
Speaker 2: and there's no reason for it. There's absolutely no reason
31:36
Speaker 2: for this scene to look the way it does, and
31:38
Speaker 2: it's infuriating.
31:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like those it's like, I guess, like
31:42
Speaker 3: the one of the dramatic climaxes of the thing they're
31:46
Speaker 3: going for, you know, like they're kind of trying to
31:48
Speaker 3: make it a moment.
31:49
Speaker 2: The only other thing I could think is maybe he thought,
31:53
Speaker 2: all right, well, this is a doors documentary. Motherfuckers are
31:56
Speaker 2: going to do some acid before they watched this. Oh,
32:00
Speaker 2: let's throw them a bone. That's the only thing I
32:03
Speaker 2: can think of.
32:04
Speaker 3: You need to break on through to the other side
32:05
Speaker 3: of Adobe after effects.
32:10
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's that whole phone call scene. It amounts
32:13
Speaker 2: to nothing. But then we get back to the interview.
32:16
Speaker 2: Another very interesting moment. Frank again, who would have us
32:20
Speaker 2: believe he has lived in upstate New York forever. It's
32:24
Speaker 2: just a regular ass maintenance man, no special ties to anyone.
32:28
Speaker 2: Just goes on this tangent about being on the Sunset
32:32
Speaker 2: Strip in nineteen sixty eight and how he was really
32:36
Speaker 2: good friends with Brian Jones from the Rolling Stones, and
32:41
Speaker 2: how the Stones would let him hear demos of their
32:43
Speaker 2: songs before they put them out and then just goes
32:47
Speaker 2: back to like talking regular, nah, I'm Frank stuff. And
32:51
Speaker 2: it's like, then, how were you friends with the Rolling Stones?
32:56
Speaker 2: If you're just a maintenance man from New York, it
32:59
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. And again, I think it's because the
33:03
Speaker 2: version of Jim Morrison they're talking to isn't all there
33:06
Speaker 2: and is just like losing his train of thought and telling,
33:11
Speaker 2: you know, like Trump does when he's given speeches, he'll
33:14
Speaker 2: just yeah, veer off and say other shit. That's what
33:17
Speaker 2: this version of Jim Morrison is doing in these interviews.
33:21
Speaker 3: Which is like annoying because it's the perfect cover. You know.
33:24
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't know if we even like, how
33:26
Speaker 3: can you prove it? If he doesn't even know who
33:28
Speaker 3: he is anymore, he might he might be like, yeah,
33:30
Speaker 3: I'm Frank. I've been Frank for like fifty years, dude
33:32
Speaker 3: with the I don't know remember I miss Mary, but
33:34
Speaker 3: I'm Frank.
33:36
Speaker 2: There is a moment, and it's way at the end.
33:38
Speaker 2: But speaking of that, at the end of this, Jeff
33:42
Speaker 2: Finn asks Frank straight up. He goes, Okay, I'm just
33:46
Speaker 2: gonna ask are you Jim Morrison? And Frank does not
33:49
Speaker 2: say no, of course not. That's one of the craziest
33:52
Speaker 2: things I've ever heard. Why would you assume I'm Jim Morrison. Instead,
33:56
Speaker 2: he says, no, I'm not Jim Morrison, but we all
34:00
Speaker 2: are one, we are the same person, which is a
34:03
Speaker 2: quote from a musician named Jimmy Cliff and also exactly
34:07
Speaker 2: the kind of shit I would expect Jim Morrison to
34:10
Speaker 2: say if he was pretending to not be Jim Morrison.
34:13
Speaker 3: Motherfucker loved responding to things, and that's what teric quotes.
34:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean that feels almost like a confession
34:21
Speaker 2: to me because in a sense, no, he's not Jim
34:24
Speaker 2: Morrison anymore. Jim Morrison was the lead singer of The Doors.
34:27
Speaker 2: He was a big pop star that everyone knew. This
34:30
Speaker 2: is Frank, who's just a maintenance man in upstate New York,
34:34
Speaker 2: but he used to be Jim Morrison. I think that's
34:37
Speaker 2: what Frank was saying at the end of this is No,
34:40
Speaker 2: I'm not Jim Morrison anymore.
34:43
Speaker 3: But you don't think he ever gets on Facebook and
34:44
Speaker 3: he goes, hey, Ray, could you settle me off some
34:47
Speaker 3: of that Hello? I love you money. I'm kind of
34:49
Speaker 3: tired of being a fucking literal janitor here. I mean,
34:52
Speaker 3: I did right touch me. I do feel like I
34:54
Speaker 3: don't maybe I shouldn't have to, Like, I just I
34:58
Speaker 3: hate working so much. I can't imagine that he would
35:00
Speaker 3: quit being a rock star and then just like literally
35:02
Speaker 3: get a fucking job. But I guess maybe you need
35:04
Speaker 3: to cover.
35:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would think you'd at least want to just go.
35:08
Speaker 2: And you know, maybe he doesn't have a real job.
35:10
Speaker 2: Maybe he's just saying, yeah, I'm a maintenance man, I
35:12
Speaker 2: fucking help out, and secretly he's just home getting hammered
35:16
Speaker 2: and writing poems about jettison horses off the side of
35:20
Speaker 2: ships and the last horse is jettisoned.
35:25
Speaker 3: I would love it if there was just like fucking
35:28
Speaker 3: miles and miles of like unreleased, nonsensical, drunken Frank Morrison
35:34
Speaker 3: poetry that we could read at some point of just
35:36
Speaker 3: like all of his like, oh wow, this guy really
35:38
Speaker 3: fell off. It turns out he really needed the Ray
35:41
Speaker 3: and Robbie and them to kind of rain all in.
35:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope he recorded it. So after that version
35:47
Speaker 2: of Jim Morrison dies, the doors just turn into Tupac
35:51
Speaker 2: put out more albums posthumously than they did when Jim
35:54
Speaker 2: Morrison was alive. That would be great.
35:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I fucking I listen to the
36:00
Speaker 3: New Beatles song I'm Desperate.
36:03
Speaker 2: So there's also Arthur Rimbo comes up. He is another
36:08
Speaker 2: poet that Jim was enamored with, and that guy, at
36:12
Speaker 2: one point in his life just up and disappeared to Africa,
36:16
Speaker 2: which is a thing. Jim Morrison talked about that a
36:19
Speaker 2: lot in high school. According to everyone they interview here,
36:24
Speaker 2: they talk about how Jim Morrison was like, yeah, one day,
36:26
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna fucking vanish like Rimbo did, and the
36:31
Speaker 2: speculation is that's maybe what happened. But I did find
36:35
Speaker 2: one thing really interesting where they talk about just how
36:38
Speaker 2: easy the Doors became rich and famous.
36:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I hadn't really put that together completely before either,
36:45
Speaker 3: but they did kind of just like blow the fuck
36:47
Speaker 3: up right the fuck away.
36:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like immediately made the house band at Whiskey
36:52
Speaker 2: of Go Go. They don't like one of their friends
36:54
Speaker 2: is like they didn't even have to tour. They just
36:57
Speaker 2: were a house band in La. Then they had a
36:59
Speaker 2: hit and they were millions and it's like wow. So
37:03
Speaker 2: arguably aside from Elvis, the band fronted by a man
37:07
Speaker 2: who has the most rumors about being a FED surrounding him.
37:11
Speaker 2: Also is in the band that just blew up the fastest,
37:14
Speaker 2: like had the quickest path to stun him. Weird, weird.
37:19
Speaker 3: But if he was a FED, do you think they'd
37:21
Speaker 3: let him just fake his own death? See?
37:23
Speaker 2: That's the thing this documentary makes me feel like the
37:26
Speaker 2: Jim Morrison was a FED thing is not accurate.
37:30
Speaker 3: And I mean, and then a lot of the FED
37:32
Speaker 3: stuff is based on his father, who I guess was
37:34
Speaker 3: just over overhere molesting him all the time. Doesn't sound
37:37
Speaker 3: like he Well, that is one way to turn a
37:38
Speaker 3: kid to a rock star. On the other hand, maybe
37:41
Speaker 3: he was.
37:42
Speaker 2: I think we have to differentiate between MK Ultra Baby
37:46
Speaker 2: and like military intelligence. Maybe he was just a victim
37:50
Speaker 2: of military intelligence, because that was a big part of
37:53
Speaker 2: MK Ultra, was introducing trauma as a means of changing
37:58
Speaker 2: a person's personality.
38:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe old man Morrison was just bringing his work
38:03
Speaker 3: home with him.
38:03
Speaker 2: Yep, could be now here.
38:05
Speaker 3: We are so listening to the Soft Parade.
38:09
Speaker 2: That's a good album.
38:11
Speaker 3: That's not It's not one of my favorites, but it's
38:12
Speaker 3: still pretty they're all pretty good. Yeah.
38:14
Speaker 2: I listened to Waiting for the Sun yesterday.
38:17
Speaker 3: I like the older Fat Morrison ones are pretty good too.
38:20
Speaker 2: Yeah. La one Hotel Morrison Hotel I believe just got
38:24
Speaker 2: torn down. It's about two in la It's a real place.
38:27
Speaker 2: So yeah, episode three is I mean, they kind of
38:31
Speaker 2: get back on track, but they also promised that we're
38:35
Speaker 2: going to get a lot of bombshell revelations from this
38:37
Speaker 2: woman named Robin Wirdle, who is one of the last
38:41
Speaker 2: people to see Jim alive. She was a former assistant
38:44
Speaker 2: hired weeks before his supposed death. At the end of
38:49
Speaker 2: episode two is when we're promised she's going to have
38:52
Speaker 2: these bombs to drop. I don't know if they ever
38:55
Speaker 2: really come, but she says that Jim Morrison wasn't drinking
38:59
Speaker 2: when he was in Paris. There's another story about him
39:03
Speaker 2: dying of a heroin overdose. Robin says that is ridiculous.
39:08
Speaker 2: They sort of imply that if Jim Morrison died, Pamela
39:12
Speaker 2: Corson maybe killed him in episode three and I've never
39:16
Speaker 2: heard that.
39:16
Speaker 3: Before, but yeah, that was kind of odd.
39:18
Speaker 2: The one thing I did find really interesting that they
39:23
Speaker 2: bring up in episode three. First, the coffin thing. They
39:26
Speaker 2: go into more detail, and it really was someone just
39:29
Speaker 2: like found out Jim Morrison was dead, so they brought
39:31
Speaker 2: a coffin to the apartment. I don't know that that
39:34
Speaker 2: ever has happened in human history.
39:36
Speaker 3: Although I'm stupid enough if you told me it was
39:39
Speaker 3: French custom, I would believe you.
39:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I also feel like that would come up
39:43
Speaker 2: in the documentary, at least if it was a responsible documentary,
39:47
Speaker 2: they'd be like, but that's normal, that's a French custom.
39:51
Speaker 3: I think that Jeff Finn googled it for us. He's
39:55
Speaker 3: a passionate man. I do respect his work here as
40:00
Speaker 3: critical of it as I have been.
40:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate the research and the information. It's again
40:07
Speaker 2: yes and like and you.
40:09
Speaker 3: Know, we're saying the thing that documentary drags a little bit,
40:11
Speaker 3: but it's like thorough, you know.
40:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the more interesting points that comes up
40:18
Speaker 2: in episode three is Jim and Pam. It like just
40:22
Speaker 2: dawned on me at this point.
40:23
Speaker 3: That was, yeah, I know, it was making me laugh.
40:25
Speaker 2: The office couple. They had a drug dealer friend who
40:30
Speaker 2: the day after Jim Morrison died, immediately flew to Morocco.
40:36
Speaker 2: One of the friends of Jim Morrison's that they interview
40:39
Speaker 2: a friend who Jim told that he would want to
40:43
Speaker 2: maybe disappear someday. She was like, well, where would you go?
40:46
Speaker 2: He says, Morocco, Just like Rimbo did when he disappeared.
40:50
Speaker 2: He also went to Morocco. I think that's pretty important,
40:54
Speaker 2: because otherwise, what was that guy flying to Morocco for
40:57
Speaker 2: if not to usher a newly having faked his death,
41:01
Speaker 2: Jim Morrison to another country to live out his fucking
41:04
Speaker 2: French poet dreams. I don't know.
41:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, it was pretty Yeah, you're you're really like,
41:10
Speaker 3: what is the other explanation?
41:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. They go on at length about Jim Morrison possibly
41:17
Speaker 2: being a homosexual, and that part. I really didn't understand
41:21
Speaker 2: the point.
41:22
Speaker 3: I guess. I guess he went to Morocco until he
41:24
Speaker 3: rented the money, and then he's like, all right, let's
41:25
Speaker 3: go someplace cheaper, like upstate New York. The cost of
41:29
Speaker 3: living is a little less a tourist to you.
41:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, I don't know where they were going
41:35
Speaker 2: with the whole Jim Morrison might have been gay thing.
41:38
Speaker 2: I don't give a shit. I would be surprised if
41:40
Speaker 2: Jim Morrison wasn't a little gay. But then that's when
41:42
Speaker 2: they get to the close up of Frank's eyes and
41:46
Speaker 2: it does, to me legitimately look like he's wearing brown
41:50
Speaker 2: contact lenses as opposed to having naturally brown eyes. And
41:54
Speaker 2: if he if not, there is a weird thing going
41:58
Speaker 2: on with his eyes where he's got a blue around
42:01
Speaker 2: his brown eyes.
42:03
Speaker 3: Didn't they talk about how there's like a disease you
42:05
Speaker 3: can get with you have blue eyes that it browns
42:07
Speaker 3: them up like that, Yeah, get like alopecia of the eyes.
42:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, something like that. Yeah, and maybe he had Maybe
42:13
Speaker 2: it's that maybe he had that disease.
42:15
Speaker 3: I find I guess I would believe that over. I
42:18
Speaker 3: just I can't see a seventy year old man putting it.
42:20
Speaker 3: Let me put in my brown contacts, like, well, I'm
42:22
Speaker 3: half senile, so I can hide my identity. Yeah.
42:26
Speaker 2: But also if you've gotten that used to it, Yeah,
42:29
Speaker 2: he's clearly with it enough to think he can get
42:32
Speaker 2: away with doing this interview and not giving up the
42:36
Speaker 2: fact that he's Jim Morrison.
42:37
Speaker 3: He's still wiley, he still believes himself to be wiley.
42:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, Or did he want this guy to know he
42:43
Speaker 2: was Jim Morrison. Probably a little of both, because.
42:46
Speaker 3: If you're Jim Morrison, don't you want to brag that
42:47
Speaker 3: you got away with it?
42:48
Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly, I would want to be like a fools
42:52
Speaker 2: you motherfuckers? But also is that illegal? Would he like
42:56
Speaker 2: if he just came right out and said it was, like, yeah,
42:59
Speaker 2: I faked my death? Does Jim Morrison spend the last
43:01
Speaker 2: five years of his life in fucking Riker's Island for that?
43:05
Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't know. I mean, is there a judge
43:08
Speaker 3: who's brave enough to convict him? I would love to
43:11
Speaker 3: see like the last five years of his life. He's
43:13
Speaker 3: totally senile, but he gets together with like, you know whatever,
43:16
Speaker 3: maybe John Densmore is the only other guy who's alive,
43:18
Speaker 3: and they get some other keyboard player and guitar player
43:21
Speaker 3: and uh, all right, one, two, three, four people are gay?
43:24
Speaker 3: How so go?
43:27
Speaker 2: So? Yeah, they show that picture and then they go
43:32
Speaker 2: into this sort of like true crime documentary section where
43:37
Speaker 2: first when Frank goes out to smoke his cigarette at
43:41
Speaker 2: the Denny's, which did you just recognize it as a
43:43
Speaker 2: Denny's from the interior like I did?
43:46
Speaker 3: Yes?
43:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, there's the claw machine. That's inside
43:49
Speaker 2: the front door of every Denny's. I know exactly where
43:51
Speaker 2: they are.
43:52
Speaker 3: I know that, I know the upholstery of a Denny's.
43:55
Speaker 3: And you know, I don't know the carpet, just everything,
43:57
Speaker 3: the tile, just every crappy little thing.
44:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, comedians, Noah fucking Denny's. Blaine Kopatch, to this day
44:04
Speaker 2: is the only person I've ever seen pointed to Denny's
44:07
Speaker 2: and go, that's a good fucking Denny's. They're all the
44:10
Speaker 2: same Denny's, aren't they.
44:12
Speaker 3: He would always when I worked with him, joke about
44:14
Speaker 3: the gower gulch Denny's. That was the one, and it's
44:18
Speaker 3: pretty good Denny's.
44:20
Speaker 2: Shout out to Blaine, he's great. So, yeah, they go through,
44:24
Speaker 2: they steal a glass from They basically steal a glass
44:28
Speaker 2: from Denny's. I wonder if he asked if he could
44:30
Speaker 2: steal that glass, or if he just took it.
44:33
Speaker 3: That's what I would do. I would not ask Denny's, Hey,
44:37
Speaker 3: do you care about what? Would you even call it?
44:39
Speaker 3: Rock archaeology journalism?
44:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would have been funny if he got arrested
44:44
Speaker 2: trying to steal that glass, that'd be great. But he
44:47
Speaker 2: takes the glass and tries to get like fingerprint analysis
44:51
Speaker 2: on it, and there's nothing usable in terms of fingerprints.
44:55
Speaker 2: So then he goes and gets a fucking DNA test
44:58
Speaker 2: done on this book that someone gave him that They
45:02
Speaker 2: say Jim Morrison, like it was his copy of the book,
45:06
Speaker 2: and he carried it around a bunch.
45:07
Speaker 3: And they even said like it hasn't been handled much
45:10
Speaker 3: since he's been dead. So it's the implication being it's
45:13
Speaker 3: probably got some crumbs of Jim still on the cover.
45:16
Speaker 2: Right where the problem is. I don't think Jeff Finn
45:21
Speaker 2: handled that book as if it was crime scene evidence
45:25
Speaker 2: because when they do the DNA test, the major donor
45:29
Speaker 2: of DNA to that book is Jeff Finn. So he
45:33
Speaker 2: had been handling it so much that.
45:35
Speaker 3: I mean, he probably thought it was cool and kept
45:37
Speaker 3: looking at it.
45:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim Morrison touched this. We found a semen sample
45:42
Speaker 2: in the middle of this. Jeff's what's going on?
45:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, Fresh like still what?
45:48
Speaker 2: And so none of the forensic tests bring back anything conclusive,
45:53
Speaker 2: and that's when we get to the end. This is
45:57
Speaker 2: the end, and that's when Jeff is like, hey, are
46:01
Speaker 2: you Jim Morrison? And that's when Frank delivers that Jimmy
46:05
Speaker 2: Cliff quote, we all are one, we are the same person.
46:09
Speaker 2: But he also says, no, he's not Jim Morrison, and
46:11
Speaker 2: I don't believe him. I want everyone in the country
46:16
Speaker 2: to watch this documentary and tell me if you also
46:19
Speaker 2: believe Jim Morrison is still alive. I fucking do personally.
46:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know about They didn't exactly give like
46:26
Speaker 3: a twenty twenty four like he's still, you know, a
46:29
Speaker 3: live update. But yeah, like you said, this kid, this
46:32
Speaker 3: came out in January, and I kind of can't believe
46:33
Speaker 3: there is more of a hubbub about it. It's this
46:36
Speaker 3: is like this is like what if the Jesus Christ
46:40
Speaker 3: was in Argentina?
46:41
Speaker 2: Like what Yeah, because you don't ever see this happen
46:46
Speaker 2: where there's a documentary of this nature. And then they
46:49
Speaker 2: talk to the person who they think is like the
46:53
Speaker 2: person that fake their death. It's fascinating in that way,
46:56
Speaker 2: and nothing that happens in that interview makes me less
47:00
Speaker 2: suspicious that that guy really is Jim Morrison. He even
47:05
Speaker 2: talks like him. They even have kind of the same build,
47:08
Speaker 2: like Frank is still in pretty good shape for his age,
47:13
Speaker 2: it seems. And I don't know everything about that. Dude
47:17
Speaker 2: seems like Jim Morrison. To me, it's crazy. It is
47:20
Speaker 2: crazy that that documentary is just out there and it's
47:23
Speaker 2: not bigger news.
47:24
Speaker 3: What's your official position is it? Do we let him
47:27
Speaker 3: die in peace? Or do he harassed the shit out
47:29
Speaker 3: of him? Oh?
47:30
Speaker 2: I think he let him. Let him die, it's fine.
47:32
Speaker 2: I don't.
47:33
Speaker 3: He's got to have someone to come forward and John
47:35
Speaker 3: Densbor will be like, Okay, he really was alive. Is
47:39
Speaker 3: someone gonna let us know whether at least whether or
47:41
Speaker 3: not this was true, like one of these like.
47:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope he's got something at his house that
47:46
Speaker 2: when he dies, it's like, open me after I got
47:49
Speaker 2: a dead.
47:49
Speaker 3: Man switch the conspiracy guys have.
47:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be ideal, because yeah, I would love
47:55
Speaker 2: some confirmation. But even if I don't get confirmation, I'm
47:59
Speaker 2: pretty convinced that that was Jim Morrison in this documentary.
48:03
Speaker 3: You know, I love I love conspiracies because there's there's
48:06
Speaker 3: fun ones that are just stupid where it's like, how
48:08
Speaker 3: could anybody believe this? And then every once in a while,
48:12
Speaker 3: you never know what it's going to be. Something comes
48:14
Speaker 3: along that just changes the way you view reality completely Yeah.
48:17
Speaker 3: And you know, if you would have told me last week,
48:19
Speaker 3: the next week, you'll be living in a world where
48:21
Speaker 3: Jim Morrison is still alive, you know, Like I was.
48:25
Speaker 3: I was already happily living in a world where I
48:27
Speaker 3: was seventy percent sure that Elvis was just lived into
48:29
Speaker 3: the nineties. Yeah, but now this is is too good
48:33
Speaker 3: to be true.
48:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it isn't that crazy that he could have
48:39
Speaker 2: faked his own death.
48:41
Speaker 3: There's definitely a lot of setup for it. There's like,
48:43
Speaker 3: once you get to the point where his childhood friends
48:45
Speaker 3: say that he always talked about this, it's like, well, okay.
48:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that guy flying to the exact place Jim
48:52
Speaker 2: Morrison said he would go if he faked his death
48:54
Speaker 2: the day after Jim Morrison died. I don't know, I think.
48:58
Speaker 2: And here's the thing good for him. What I like
49:00
Speaker 2: about this is it's a very innocuous conspiracy.
49:04
Speaker 3: Probably would have died if he kept on being a rockstar.
49:05
Speaker 3: I mean, he clearly couldn't like fucking compartmentalize all that shit.
49:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it I mean that happens the guy from
49:12
Speaker 2: the fucking New Radicals that you only get what you
49:16
Speaker 2: give song, that's what happened to that guy. They had
49:18
Speaker 2: that one hit and he was like, oh, I hate this.
49:21
Speaker 2: I don't like being a star at all. And then
49:23
Speaker 2: he just like retired to write songs for other people
49:27
Speaker 2: the rest of his life. Some people don't fucking like
49:30
Speaker 2: it being famous, and then some people pretend they don't
49:33
Speaker 2: but really do like it, Like Kurt Cobain, who is
49:37
Speaker 2: definitely not still alive. He got murdered by his wife.
49:41
Speaker 3: It's a different episode of conspiracy the show it is.
49:44
Speaker 2: That's a that's another conspiracy. I will never be backed
49:47
Speaker 2: down from Courtney Love.
49:49
Speaker 3: Yeah. Once you get to the point where it's like
49:51
Speaker 3: her lawyer saw her practicing his handwriting, Yeah, yeah.
49:56
Speaker 2: She found a practice sheet with her practicing his handwriting
49:59
Speaker 2: in a backpack she left at her house, It's like,
50:02
Speaker 2: come on, what was that there for. Also, there's a
50:05
Speaker 2: great documentary about it called Soaked in Bleach that goes
50:09
Speaker 2: into detail about where the shotgun shell was And the
50:13
Speaker 2: only way that shotgun shell would be where it landed
50:17
Speaker 2: is if it hit something that was next to Kurt
50:20
Speaker 2: Cobain at the time, and there's nothing next to him
50:23
Speaker 2: that it would have hit, So that's something was probably
50:26
Speaker 2: a person.
50:27
Speaker 3: What's the name of that guy that killed him from
50:29
Speaker 3: el something he was Chas and the mentors el Duce. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah.
50:34
Speaker 3: There's also the amount of heroin he had in the system.
50:36
Speaker 3: He couldn't have had the hand eye coordination to I mean,
50:40
Speaker 3: maybe he was a tank and just when we fucking
50:42
Speaker 3: you know, could consume a bunch of heroin Devil's Advocate,
50:44
Speaker 3: But according to science, he was too fucked up to
50:47
Speaker 3: shoot that fucking shit in his face.
50:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, and no fingerprints on the shotgun. That part is
50:52
Speaker 2: weird too. He also, I believe had heroin injections in
50:55
Speaker 2: both arms, which who does that? Nobody anyway, That's that's
51:00
Speaker 2: a different conspiracy. We talked about it. I think that's
51:03
Speaker 2: our episode. Jim Morrison, if you're listening to this, and
51:06
Speaker 2: I know you are, good on you, dude, I'm glad.
51:09
Speaker 2: I'm happy for you, piece.
51:11
Speaker 3: Frank.
51:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm happy that you Elvis got to retire on
51:15
Speaker 2: a fucking law enforcement high. And I'm happy Jim Morrison
51:19
Speaker 2: successfully faked his death and is now fixing leaky sinks
51:24
Speaker 2: in Syracuse or whatever the fuck he's doing these days.
51:28
Speaker 3: I hope he's a really good maintenance guy like, hey, fuck,
51:30
Speaker 3: have you got like a you know, bubbling around your
51:33
Speaker 3: molding or in the tile held?
51:35
Speaker 2: Fucking but just fix his stuff in really obscure ways
51:38
Speaker 2: that they did in the eighteen hundreds in France, and shit,
51:42
Speaker 2: this is how Rimbo would have fixed it.
51:44
Speaker 3: Do you have any book binders? Wax?
51:47
Speaker 2: So that's our episode. We did it again. I highly
51:51
Speaker 2: recommend watching this documentary. It's on Apple TV. Plus you
51:54
Speaker 2: have to rent it or buy it. You can buy
51:57
Speaker 2: it cheaper than renting all three episodes, but I think
52:00
Speaker 2: people should check it out. I think it is highly compelling.
52:04
Speaker 2: In my opinion, it's just not well executed.
52:07
Speaker 3: So it's a diamond in the rough. Yes, is a
52:09
Speaker 3: real You're going to be the cool guy with this
52:12
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory, but be like you guys probably didn't even
52:15
Speaker 3: know that Jim Morrison was still alive.
52:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, take that to your water cooler conversations at work
52:22
Speaker 2: next week.
52:23
Speaker 3: Thank yeah, go go get yourself ostracized at your place
52:26
Speaker 3: of work. Does everyone else and I think you're weird
52:29
Speaker 3: enough tell them that Jim Morrison is still alive.
52:32
Speaker 2: And that is our episode. Connor, thank you so much
52:36
Speaker 2: for doing the pod. What do we have to plug
52:38
Speaker 2: before we get out of here. Please follow me at
52:41
Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown dot bsky dot social on blue Sky.
52:44
Speaker 2: You can also follow Conspiracy The Show on Blue Sky
52:47
Speaker 2: at conspiracyshow dot b sky dot social. Do that. That's
52:51
Speaker 2: all I got? What do you want to plug?
52:52
Speaker 3: Oh? You can follow me on social media at economicspad
52:55
Speaker 3: and on every platform. Watch my comedy special on YouTube
52:59
Speaker 3: and listen to the Mean Boys podcasts wherever podcasts are
53:03
Speaker 3: downloaded for free.
53:04
Speaker 2: And I think that's it. Let's get the funk out
53:06
Speaker 2: of here. Connors say goodbye, goodbye Frank. Goodbye Frank. We
53:10
Speaker 2: love you