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U.S. House makes progress on transportation funding · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:07
  Jeff Cranson: Hello and welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
• 0:10
  Jeff Cranson: I'm Jeff Cranson.
• 0:12
  Jeff Cranson: If you followed the news this week about transportation funding, you're probably aware that the U.S.
• 0:22
  Jeff Cranson: House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, usually referred to as House T and I, reached agreement on a bill that reauthorizes federal funding for roads and other modes of transportation.
• 0:32
  Jeff Cranson: With a dollar figure of $580 billion over five years, there's a lot to discuss.
• 0:39
  Jeff Cranson: The bill preserves poor federal aid formula program structures, puts emphasis on project delivery and streamlining, makes some major increases in bridge investments, which is very important here in Michigan, and restructures some climate and equity programs.
• 0:55
  Jeff Cranson: There's no one better to break it down than Susan Howard, who directs government relations and policy for the American Association of Highway and Transportation Officials, AASHTO.
• 1:05
  Jeff Cranson: She and her team have been heavily engaged on the Hill for the last few months as they worked to get this reauthorization, and she explains it very well.
• 1:15
  Jeff Cranson: So, I hope you enjoy the conversation.
• 1:17
  Jeff Cranson: I'm here with Susan Howard, who directs government relations and policy for AASHTO.
• 1:22
  Jeff Cranson: Susan gave a pretty good rundown of the bill that I mentioned in the introduction earlier today for the Transportation Policy Forum, which consists of members from all 50 states.
• 1:35
  Jeff Cranson: Susan, I really appreciate you taking time to do this. Could you just talk, I guess, at a at the highest level, the things that stick out to you most?
• 1:45
  Jeff Cranson: I will say for me in Michigan, one of the most important things is the investment in bridges.
• 1:50
  Jeff Cranson: We have, like a lot of states, a lot of aging bridges and not enough money.
• 1:54
  Jeff Cranson: But that's just one of many components.
• 1:57
  Jeff Cranson: So, tell me what jumps out for you.
• 1:59
  Susan Howard: Thanks, Jeff.
• 2:00
  Susan Howard: Thanks for the invitation to speak with you today.
• 2:02
  Susan Howard: Yeah, so I think overall, a few of the themes that have jumped out at me, like you mentioned, the focus on bridges, um, some program consolidation that's probably welcome uh after the IOJA and the proliferation of programs that we saw in the last reauthorization bill, improvements in environmental review and the permitting process, um, as well as, you know, building upon the framework of formula funding for states.
• 2:30
  Susan Howard: Uh so all of those things are things that are very important to AASHTO and we see reflected in the bill.
• 2:37
  Susan Howard: It's also just great to see a return to a bipartisan bill.
• 2:42
  Susan Howard: Um, that, you know, historically, transportation has been a bipartisan topic.
• 2:47
  Susan Howard: It feels recently like it's gotten a little bit not that.
• 2:50
  Susan Howard: Um, so it's nice to see your return to form with a bipartisan approach coming out of the House Transportation Infrastructure Committee.
• 2:57
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I picked up on that too.
• 2:59
  Jeff Cranson: And uh, we had a chance to meet with ranking member Larson, um, who's from Washington State and he was in Michigan a couple years ago.
• 3:07
  Jeff Cranson: And it sounds like he and the Chairman Graves from Missouri have worked really, really well together, the open lines of communication, and they've come to a pretty good agreement.
• 3:16
  Jeff Cranson: Talk about what it means that the proposal remains fundamentally state DOT centered and formula driven.
• 3:24
  Jeff Cranson: Um, that I know that's a good thing in the parlance of transportation people, but what does that really mean?
• 3:30
  Susan Howard: Sure, sure.
• 3:31
  Susan Howard: So, you know, state DOTs rely upon a regular, steady, predictable funding stream, funding authorization.
• 3:40
  Susan Howard: So, it's important to have that bill, that reauthorization bill every five years.
• 3:45
  Susan Howard: And the fundamental kind of component of that is the formula dollars that go to states at the beginning of each fiscal year.
• 3:53
  Susan Howard: They are, you know, can be used for a number of purposes to help states meet their transportation investment needs.
• 3:59
  Susan Howard: We often, you know, see attempts to either get at goals through discretionary grant programs, meaning competitive programs.
• 4:07
  Susan Howard: And this bill does have some of that, but it also, you know, kind of keeps the structure of the formula program that states really need intact.
• 4:17
  Susan Howard: And it rate, you know, if there's nominal increases.
• 4:20
  Susan Howard: We knew the funding was going to be tough for this bill.
• 4:23
  Susan Howard: Um, and so again, it just being able to see some growth in those programs and seeing some consolidation in those programs is super helpful.
• 4:31
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, touch on that a little bit.
• 4:33
  Jeff Cranson: When you say that uh the funding was going to be tough, I think everybody, uh everybody I've heard on the TPF call and elsewhere um were really stunningly surprised at $580 billion.
• 4:45
  Susan Howard: Yes, yes, pleasantly surprised.
• 4:47
  Susan Howard: Um, folks were definitely setting expectations that this was not going to be another trillion dollar plus bill like the IIJA that was actually a once-in-a-lifetime bill.
• 4:59
  Susan Howard: Um, and so, you know, Chairman Graves had been kind of circumspect, but had mentioned 500 to 550.
• 5:06
  Susan Howard: So, 580 was above, I think, what a lot of folks expected.
• 5:11
  Susan Howard: And again, I think that it's difficult to do that in today's environment, in a constrained fiscal environment.
• 5:19
  Susan Howard: But you know, Chairman Graves is kind of putting his neck on the line, I think, to say this is important and we need to maintain these investments.
• 5:26
  Susan Howard: Even if we can't get to the point we had with the IJA in this environment, uh, we're gonna do our best and hopefully provide folks with something significant that can, that can help them meet their goals.
• 5:41
  Jeff Cranson: It's almost like it's infrastructure week.
• 5:44
  Susan Howard: Ironically, it is.
• 5:47
  Jeff Cranson: So talk about the bridge component a little bit and what that means.
• 5:52
  Susan Howard: Yeah, so there's been a focus on bridges, you know, in the in the IJA and then in subsequent appropriations bills, there's been a lot of attempts to get at some of the unmet needs when it comes to bridge investment.
• 6:06
  Susan Howard: And so this bill takes the approach of creating a new formula program that is dedicated to uh bridge improvement, and it's a pretty robust funding level.
• 6:17
  Susan Howard: I think it's $9.2 billion a year.
• 6:20
  Susan Howard: So that's pretty significant.
• 6:21
  Susan Howard: Um, there is uh, you know, a set aside in there for culverts.
• 6:26
  Susan Howard: Um, there's money that's uh a percentage dedicated to off-system bridges, which you know, in the bridge world, there's these different classes and categories of bridges that matter a lot to um who owns the asset.
• 6:39
  Susan Howard: Um, and then there's also a percentage for states to run a competitive program for localities because the locals, particularly the counties who own a lot of bridges as well, really want to get in into the game of you know being able to fix some of those assets, invest in some of those assets.
• 6:58
  Susan Howard: So we've seen kind of an evolution over time with how a bridge formula might look.
• 7:03
  Susan Howard: And this is kind of the latest iteration, but it's a but it's a really big you know down payment here looking at $9.2 billion a year.
• 7:12
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I think uh that focus on the local bridges kind of fits with some things we've done here in Michigan.
• 7:18
  Jeff Cranson: Uh MDOT has partnered with the locals, and some other states have done this too, on bridge bundling, where MDOT can offer you know contracting expertise and some engineering expertise to help the counties.
• 7:32
  Jeff Cranson: Uh it's just about economies of scale and the ways to get and I think as you just stated, um, we think of the most important bridges is those carrying the most traffic, but if it's the bridge on your street that gets you where you go, it's the most important bridge, right?
• 7:45
  Jeff Cranson: So right, right.
• 7:46
  Jeff Cranson: Something else that interested me, uh, because it's always a big deal here, too, is rail safety.
• 7:52
  Jeff Cranson: Um, there's been some discussion that there's going to be a spirited debate probably about that and some of the issues raised around the East Palestine incident.
• 8:00
  Jeff Cranson: Um, does that fit with what you're tracking too?
• 8:03
  Susan Howard: Yes.
• 8:04
  Susan Howard: Uh there, you know, following the East Palestine incident, there was legislation introduced in both the House and Senate, Railway Safety Act that made a lot of changes to the operation and safety of uh freight rail.
• 8:18
  Susan Howard: And it never has come to fruition in in terms of being enacted.
• 8:23
  Susan Howard: It's been a long and winding road.
• 8:25
  Susan Howard: And I think that there is definitely an interest in using the surface transportation reauthorization bill as a way to advance some of those provisions of that bill.
• 8:36
  Susan Howard: They did not make it into the underlying text, which is not necessarily surprising.
• 8:39
  Susan Howard: You know, it might, it's a different animal, perhaps.
• 8:42
  Susan Howard: Um, but I think there'll be some amendments.
• 8:44
  Susan Howard: The biggest one that seems to have the most potential for controversy is the requirement of a two-person crew.
• 8:51
  Susan Howard: Um, that is something that has been a top priority for the sponsors of that legislation and the folks interested in that.
• 9:01
  Susan Howard: And um, but the railroads are not a big fan of that.
• 9:04
  Susan Howard: Um, so I do expect to see a number of amendments tomorrow related to pre various provisions of that rail safety legislation that is really born out of that of the East Palestine disaster.
• 9:16
  Jeff Cranson: And when you say the railroads aren't a big fan, this is where I should probably point out that the railroads are traditionally a very powerful lobby.
• 9:23
  Susan Howard: Indeed, they are.
• 9:24
  Susan Howard: Indeed, they are.
• 9:25
  Susan Howard: But you know, this this has gotten the attention of the president.
• 9:27
  Susan Howard: There were some social media posts last night, and I just thought to myself, I would not necessarily want to work for the American Railroads Association today to have that kind of focus uh leading into this markup tomorrow.
• 9:40
  Susan Howard: Uh, so yes, I think for sure that'll be a big theme that emerges through the amendment process.
• 9:46
  Jeff Cranson: So another thing that we fully expected would be part of this is uh a discussion of NEPA assignment and environmental streamlining.
• 9:54
  Jeff Cranson: Um, I think a lot of people hear that and assume that that just means that they want to, you know, deregulate as much as possible and make it easier.
• 10:03
  Jeff Cranson: Um, and I I'll admit that when I first started hearing about this a few years ago, I kind of thought that was the intention too.
• 10:09
  Jeff Cranson: But then I found out that some pretty progressive states have done this and found that it does make things uh easier, move more quickly.
• 10:18
  Jeff Cranson: So could you talk about that a little bit?
• 10:20
  Susan Howard: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:21
  Susan Howard: The NEPA process is cumbersome and I think uh not necessarily working either way, you know, not working necessarily for the states or the or the federal government in terms of being able to really see the full intent and purpose and value of NEPA executed when it comes to project delivery.
• 10:39
  Susan Howard: So many states have worked and developed memorandums of understanding with the uh federal highway administration to be called what's called NEPA assignment states, which basically means they're assuming responsibility for the NEPA process.
• 10:51
  Susan Howard: You cut out kind of that federal nexus.
• 10:54
  Susan Howard: They're still all, you know, it's still very rigorous, uh, but a number of states have that uh authority and more are looking at it.
• 11:01
  Susan Howard: It's not for every state, probably, but it is a way to uh improve project delivery times uh while, again, not sacrificing the duty that we have as state DOTs to be, you know, protecting our natural, our natural environment.
• 11:15
  Susan Howard: So there's some changes to the uh NEPPA assignment program in this bill to allow for a longer window that a state can have that assignment without having to renew.
• 11:25
  Susan Howard: Um and then the bill does quite a bit when it comes to things like categorical exclusions and major project thresholds.
• 11:31
  Susan Howard: So, meaning like when that NEPA process gets triggered can be a big point of contention in terms depending on the size and the scope of the project.
• 11:38
  Susan Howard: And so for a long time, states have looked for some flexibility there so that it's not just a one size fits all, kind of like, oh, you have you're spending a federal dollar on this, one federal dollar on this, it has to go through the extensive NEPA process.
• 11:51
  Susan Howard: It's just it can be more project specific.
• 11:54
  Susan Howard: Um, and there's a lot more that the states can do on their own to again keep that process going while not sacrificing any um protection of the environment.
• 12:02
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, so when you say it's not a one size fits all, it's a recognition that every state's waterways are different, every state's uh maybe protected species are different, that there's just a lot of things that you need to tailor it to for that state, and that gives them they presumably they know what's in their state better than anybody, right?
• 12:19
  Jeff Cranson: So that's the idea.
• 12:21
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, so um something else that uh jumped out at me and uh talked a little bit about it on the call is this uh provision for cold weather states.
• 12:31
  Jeff Cranson: Um, the idea being that the construction season is obviously shorter in cold weather states, of which Michigan is one.
• 12:37
  Jeff Cranson: Um so can you talk a little bit about that?
• 12:40
  Susan Howard: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:41
  Susan Howard: There is a section in the legislation that would uh require the Secretary of Transportation to take a look at the policies and procedures of at FHWA, the Federal Highway Administration, to um make sure that essentially reviews for construction projects are elevated for those cold weather states uh who might have a shorter construction season.
• 13:04
  Susan Howard: So we do have a number of states, depending on where you are geographically, for whom the construction city season is very compressed.
• 13:11
  Susan Howard: And it always puts a lot of pressure to deliver, um to let projects and get them delivered in that kind of narrow window.
• 13:18
  Susan Howard: So, yeah, this language again would it it's not finding, it's more of a um, it would probably take additional guidance or rulemaking, but maybe not rulemaking, but additional guidance, but essentially designed to um release some of the pressure and tension that cold weather states might feel in terms of having to move through the approval process for their projects with that narrow construction season.
• 13:42
  Susan Howard: So we'll see how it emerges and what it ends up looking like in practice.
• 13:45
  Susan Howard: But I think for a lot of cold weather states, they're intrigued and curious about what this could mean to assist in their project delivery.
• 13:52
  Jeff Cranson: Stick around, there's more to come right after this short message.
• 13:58
  Speaker: Know, before you go, head on over to MiDrive to check out the latest on road construction and possible delays along your route.
• 14:05
  Speaker: For a detailed map, head over to Michigan.gov slash drive.
• 14:14
  Jeff Cranson: Another discussion this always comes up, and you know, everybody talks about it, and it's hard to pull off, but uh there's a big emphasis on more state DOT flexibility.
• 14:24
  Jeff Cranson: What does that mean?
• 14:25
  Susan Howard: So when we talk about state flexibility, we're usually talking about a few things.
• 14:28
  Susan Howard: One, is transferability between formula programs, as we talked about formula programs um earlier.
• 14:34
  Susan Howard: Each state gets different amounts of funding, but funding in this in differ in the same pots, right?
• 14:41
  Susan Howard: So there are federal aid formula program pots that have different rules and eligibilities, and we really uh need the flexibility to move some of those funds around depending on to meet the need at the right time, to meet the project need that we may have.
• 14:56
  Susan Howard: So, the bill is kind of neutral on that, doesn't make any major changes to the percentages that can be moved around between programs.
• 15:04
  Susan Howard: Uh one thing that it that it does include is an idea that's been floating around for a while uh out there about for a consolidated, essentially block grant program for states to allow them to have that those federal aid dollars given to them in one lump sum as opposed to each of those categories that we've mentioned.
• 15:24
  Susan Howard: So, you know, you've got this amount of money to spend in the NHP program and this amount on freight and this amount on um, you know, CMAC.
• 15:32
  Susan Howard: You could get those funds and you'd still have to meet performance measures, but you would be able to have a lot more flexibility in terms of how you apply them.
• 15:41
  Susan Howard: So, the language in the uh Build America 250 Act would create a pilot program for 10 states to try that out to see to see how it works.
• 15:53
  Susan Howard: And um, if it's appealing enough, there I think there are a number of states that will want it will want to try it, will want to take it out for a test drive to see how it works.
• 16:02
  Susan Howard: Uh, so that's one of the things that jumps out in this bill related to flexibility.
• 16:07
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, so I think when we talk about um formula versus uh discretionary, um people understand that probably at the most basic level to mean that it's it provides more certainty, right?
• 16:20
  Jeff Cranson: If we know that we're formula focused.
• 16:23
  Jeff Cranson: Um there are some politics that enter into a discretionary program.
• 16:26
  Jeff Cranson: There's not a lot of transparency, just like in earmarks.
• 16:29
  Jeff Cranson: Um and just about every state, I think you heard from said that's a top priority, that we want more formula funds.
• 16:35
  Jeff Cranson: And that's what this is doing, right?
• 16:38
  Susan Howard: Yes.
• 16:39
  Susan Howard: I mean, the beauty, the beauty of it, of the formula funds, if I can use that term of art, is that they are it's extremely nimble, so that a state like Michigan can utilize the formula structure and the guaranteed funding that you're going to get each year to apply to the projects that are most important to you.
• 16:56
  Susan Howard: And those projects might look a lot different than the projects in Arizona or Florida or Maine.
• 17:01
  Susan Howard: But that is, again, the kind of universal um benefit to all 50 states.
• 17:07
  Susan Howard: The state DOTs are essentially main- building and maintaining our national network for transportation.
• 17:15
  Susan Howard: The federal government doesn't do that themselves, they give us the money to do it.
• 17:21
  Susan Howard: Um, and so it's really important that there be that kind of flexibility and almost universality in terms of what a different states can do with formula.
• 17:31
  Susan Howard: Discretionary grants are certainly a role for them, but as you mentioned, they're not as predictable.
• 17:36
  Susan Howard: They're costly to put together applications, they're unpredictable.
• 17:40
  Susan Howard: The regularity of you know the notice going out and you getting, you know, getting the application in and finding out is can be unpredictable.
• 17:49
  Susan Howard: So we saw a big shift to more discretionary grant programs in the IIJA.
• 17:53
  Susan Howard: And I think that what we end up with for the next reauthorization bill will pull that back quite a bit because um we just, you know, we've ended up at the end of the IIJA with a lot of unspent balances in some of those discretionary grant programs and a lot of just unmet potential.
• 18:08
  Susan Howard: So I think that uh everybody recognizes that there's uh a real benefit to formula, there's room for discretionary as well, but uh the balance has to be correct.
• 18:19
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, no, that's definitely something that that we pushed for from a policy standpoint here in Michigan.
• 18:24
  Jeff Cranson: So I think I think we're very pleased with that part of it.
• 18:27
  Jeff Cranson: Um one other thing that I noticed, because this is important, because we have a state legislative required uh pilot and study in the works for road user charge.
• 18:37
  Jeff Cranson: Talk a little bit about the road user charge component of this reauthorization.
• 18:42
  Susan Howard: Yeah, so um I don't know that I was surprised, but it was sort of pleasantly surprised, I guess.
• 18:47
  Susan Howard: Um I didn't know which way it would go in terms of what the bill might do to continue.
• 18:52
  Susan Howard: The state pilots that have been very effective in demonstrating the potential of a uh mileage-based fee or road usage charge.
• 19:01
  Susan Howard: We've had those, that pilot program for the last couple of bills, and we've been able to do a lot of important work across the states to really demonstrate and test out this concept.
• 19:12
  Susan Howard: And a lot of important lessons have been learned from that.
• 19:14
  Susan Howard: So that discretionary grant program has been continued in the this reauthorization bill, as well as continuing a national pilot uh advisory board that will help set up a national pilot or that will guide a national pilot.
• 19:31
  Susan Howard: That was in the last bill, but it never fully got off the ground.
• 19:34
  Susan Howard: The members of that board were named, but I don't know that they ever met before change of administration happened and it kind of all got pulled back.
• 19:41
  Susan Howard: So, this bill is at least not closing the door on that and saying it's still an idea worth exploring through both the state grants and then looking at it at a national level.
• 19:52
  Susan Howard: So I think it's a positive step.
• 19:54
  Susan Howard: Um, there's been a lot of fits and starts, particularly with the national pilot, um, you know, since the IJA, but having it at least continued um provides an opportunity.
• 20:04
  Jeff Cranson: And I know that Jack Basso, formerly of AASHTO, who uh sent a letter in in his capacity with the mileage-based user fee alliance, um they're very excited about it and there's some things on that too.
• 20:15
  Jeff Cranson: So that probably makes sense.
• 20:17
  Susan Howard: I'm sure they're thrilled.
• 20:17
  Susan Howard: Yeah, I'm sure they're thrilled because I think there was a fear that it we didn't really get this off the ground um in the life of the IIGA and is the and you know, there being some question as to what life it had left.
• 20:29
  Susan Howard: So I was pleased to see it.
• 20:31
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah.
• 20:32
  Jeff Cranson: Um, and kind of related to that, there are some uh registration fees for electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles.
• 20:40
  Jeff Cranson: Um what are you hearing?
• 20:42
  Jeff Cranson: That and that money is supposed to go into the highway trust fund.
• 20:44
  Jeff Cranson: Um, are you hearing much of debate or do you expect a lot of debate around that?
• 20:49
  Susan Howard: I expect some debate around it.
• 20:51
  Susan Howard: It's not a it has not been a popular idea in the Senate.
• 20:55
  Susan Howard: Uh the House include I don't know if you remember budget reconciliation from last year, but the House included an electric vehicle fee and a plug-in hybrid fee in their part of the re of the uh budget reconciliation process.
• 21:10
  Susan Howard: It didn't end up getting in the final version, but I always saw that as kind of a test case, a trial run for reauthorization to see what the reception was and see if they so the reception was okay.
• 21:21
  Susan Howard: And so again, I thought, well, we're gonna see this in the in all likelihood, we're gonna see this in the bill.
• 21:25
  Susan Howard: And it's noteworthy because this is the first time since 1993 that any reauthorization bill has attempted to tackle new sources of revenue for the trust fund.
• 21:36
  Susan Howard: And the electric vehicle and hybrid fee make a lot of sense because those users do not pay into the um highway trust fund via the gasoline tax, the federal gasoline tax.
• 21:48
  Susan Howard: So it makes sense.
• 21:49
  Susan Howard: Many, many states, I think it's over 40 at this point, have some kind of state registration fee for those alternative fuel vehicles.
• 21:57
  Susan Howard: So this bill would establish a national registration fee, an annual fee of $130 for EVs to start and $35 for plug-in hybrids.
• 22:11
  Susan Howard: And the states are going to have to collect this.
• 22:13
  Susan Howard: So that's something we're going to have to work through with our DMVs and our departments of revenues.
• 22:17
  Susan Howard: How you, you know, how do you collect a fee and transmit it to the highway trust fund?
• 22:21
  Susan Howard: That's not been done before.
• 22:22
  Susan Howard: So there's definitely some things to figure out in terms of how this would be administered.
• 22:27
  Susan Howard: But it's great news that it's dedicated to the Highway Trust Fund.
• 22:30
  Susan Howard: It's not going to solve the problem that we have with uh highway trust fund solvency forever.
• 22:35
  Susan Howard: But I think it's noteworthy in that it is the first time that Congress has really embraced trying to look at um new revenue to deposit into the trust fund.
• 22:45
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I mean it's always gonna be a debate.
• 22:46
  Jeff Cranson: It's a dilemma.
• 22:47
  Jeff Cranson: Environmental activists say you shouldn't do anything to disincentivize anything that gets us uh fossil fuels.
• 22:54
  Jeff Cranson: Um, but the other side of that argument is but they also use the roads.
• 22:58
  Jeff Cranson: So Right.
• 22:59
  Susan Howard: Yes, and I think that if that's gonna be the argument that we're gonna bump up against in the Senate, that this is again just in a time that we should when we should be encouraging adoption of EVs, uh, this is a deterrent to that.
• 23:11
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah.
• 23:12
  Jeff Cranson: So to wrap up, since you mentioned the Senate and uh this podcast will post on Thursday, which is the day that the markup is gonna begin in earnest um in the House, um, where do things go from here?
• 23:25
  Susan Howard: So after tomorrow's markup, Thursday's markup, uh we will kind of be in a waiting game to see if there's any possibility for there's a few other committees have to be involved in this, like different titles that live in different committees, and just that's just the nature of the of the beast.
• 23:43
  Susan Howard: But once we have the kind of whole package, we'll just in the House be waiting to see if there is an opportunity for time on the floor this summer in June or July.
• 23:53
  Susan Howard: It's a narrow time frame.
• 23:55
  Susan Howard: Um, there's just not that many weeks that that the House is going to be in session before August recess and then before midterm election.
• 24:01
  Susan Howard: So the the clock is the kind of big factor here that is of concern.
• 24:06
  Susan Howard: The Senate is moving a lot more slowly.
• 24:08
  Susan Howard: I think that after this bill gets through committee, one thing I'll be doing is trying to, you know, chat with the Senate uh committees of jurisdiction to say, okay, we have a House bill now, and here's what was great in it, and here's some things that we'd like to improve upon moving forward.
• 24:23
  Susan Howard: And um, yeah, I just they're they haven't totally stalled out, but I think that there have been some delays over there that they're not moving as quick of a clip as the House is.
• 24:34
  Susan Howard: So hopefully they can do that, move, move something through their committee as well this summer, and we can hopefully sprint to the deadline of September 30th.
• 24:42
  Jeff Cranson: So will the broader environmental and public works committee in the Senate be uh hands-on involved in this, or will it be a lot of work in the subcommittees?
• 24:51
  Susan Howard: It'll be um there is a highways, there is a highways and transit subcommittee similar to the House, but it'll be mostly at the full committee level.
• 24:57
  Susan Howard: And then you have to remember in the Senate things get kind of complicated because there's different committees of jurisdiction.
• 25:02
  Susan Howard: Senate Commerce has a big piece of this, Senate Banking has a big piece of this on the transit title, so this Environment and Public Works Committee, which has the highway title, always goes first, but there will be other more robust and complicated component parks that have to come together as well.
• 25:19
  Jeff Cranson: Sounds like you're gonna have a fun year.
• 25:21
  Susan Howard: Yeah.
• 25:22
  Susan Howard: Never a dull moment.
• 25:24
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah.
• 25:24
  Jeff Cranson: Well, thank you, Susan.
• 25:25
  Jeff Cranson: Um, is there anything that I missed that you think is particularly worth pointing out?
• 25:30
  Jeff Cranson: Um, there'll be lots of time for more discussion about this, obviously.
• 25:33
  Susan Howard: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:34
  Susan Howard: I guess I would just stress that this is the first step in a in a process.
• 25:38
  Susan Howard: It's a great first step.
• 25:39
  Susan Howard: It's very encouraging to see actually, you know, a bill moving.
• 25:43
  Susan Howard: Um, and we're looking forward to working on it and you know continuing the process moving forward.
• 25:49
  Susan Howard: So thanks so much for the opportunity to join you and talk about it.
• 25:52
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, the only other quick thing I should mention, and we didn't get into it, but I just want to make sure people know that there is some good emphasis on work zone safety in the bill too, and that's always a welcome thing.
• 26:02
  Jeff Cranson: So thanks again, Susan.
• 26:04
  Jeff Cranson: Um, good luck as uh as it moves from here.
• 26:08
  Susan Howard: Thank you.
• 26:08
  Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation.
• 26:12
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 26:16
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, and Jacke Salinas, who posts the podcast to various platforms and transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.