Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Making the Ordinary Extraordinary as an Enneagram Four

Transcript

Making the Ordinary Extraordinary as an Enneagram Four · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a person that sometimes gets called a feeler?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you sometimes find yourself getting stuck in your head?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you do, I think you're going to appreciate today's conversation with my guest, Angel Elo.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: She is sharing about motherhood from the perspective as a type of four.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Enneagram fours are often labeled as individualists.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And while this is one of their character traits, well, I think you know by now, there is so much more beneath the surface.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: So this whole month, I am sharing stories from each Enneagram type and their perspective on motherhood, spiritual growth, and what is really going on behind the curtain.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: For this motherhood and Enneagram series, I've invited my personal friends, the ones who may have sat in my living room week in and week out, and have gone through my customized Enneagram coaching sessions for months.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you've probably met Angel Elo before because she has been on the podcast and we're often hanging out talking about business ideas.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Once a week, we swap encouragement, wins, and losses about our life on Instagram and motherhood.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: In this episode, Angel is going to share her mistyping journey because if you've been following her, she has been my Enneagram five guest back in 2019.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: But she is also sharing how the Enneagram is helping her navigate raising little ones and also how it helps remind her to make the mundane minutes matter.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: We also end up diving deep into the struggle for four when it comes to their desire for autonomy and their need to process feelings, especially in seasons when motherhood limits your space.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Angel also shares what it looks like to flourish as a type four and the number one book she would recommend to all of us.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Don't miss the five last minutes of this conversation.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Recently, I had someone on a coaching call let me know that when I said, are you feeling overwhelmed by your personality weakness, she was raising two hands.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you're not alone.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're not the only one out there who feels a little overwhelmed by this Enneagram thing and wondering how it can actually help you understand your motherhood and go from surviving to thriving.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is why I've created my coaching program, and I've also created a free ebook to help you cut through the overwhelm of your personality so you can overcome your weaknesses and connect with those you love.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've created a one-of-a-kind ebook with an overview of each type.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's really pretty, and it's full of mom challenges, questions, and true statements that I use to help my clients to freedom.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to know that you are the mom for the job.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So get your copy on the Simply Wholehearted website or at the link in the show notes.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, my name is Amy Wiggs, and I love to talk about the gospel message your heart was created to hear.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Christian Enneagram coach for moments who loves to share resources which help you be confident that you are the best mom for your kids.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm about to somehow ended up on a cold stack in the Midwest.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was overwhelmed by Motherhead.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I struggled to understand my true motivation.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: He helps me to hear the helping up the motherhead.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm married and my kids.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm open hearted.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: So hit the pile of laundry.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or hit the treadmill or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Get it ready to be encouraged and challenged while you listen.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my friends, you are on the podcast again.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel about it?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: I like it.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's fun talking to you.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I keep asking you to do a podcast with me all the time.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe someday.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Someday someday.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Someday when you're not drowning a little because that is your life right now.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: All the time.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: But you're rocking it.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: The last time we were on the podcast, you were pregnant with Nava.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Very pregnant.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Were you?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you were maybe just a few weeks away from having her.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: We were at Go Camp at that point.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: So that was in June.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I was due very beginning of August.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like she was born on the 4th of August.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like six weeks less than.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it was so fun.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what I think is even more fun, and I hear my dog making noises.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: You guys, she's in the terrible two state.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's really bad.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: She's getting into everything, chewing everything.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: I won't even but back to the conversation.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: But this is about motherhood, and as a dog mom, the struggle can be real sometimes.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so last time you were on the podcast, you were the guest for our Enneagram 5 first summer in the Instagram, which was so fun.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Which like I cannot believe that that was like so long ago.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it seemed sort of like yesterday.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: But now, like you have a one, practically a one and a half year old, you know, not quite really, but one.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and you have done some further discovery about your in-madeering type.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: Again.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, again, but that's the fun thing.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Continuing, not that our personality evolved, but our awareness evolved.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And different aspects about our life get illuminated and highlighted, especially, I think, as moms, as we go through all the transitions that we're faced with, because it's stressful.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing like living on your line of stress for nine months and then postpartum to make you aware that oh, I am maybe not the type I thought I was.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love for you to share.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: I know both of us we kind of made this journey side by side in uncovering our dominant type, rediscovering it, I should say.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so tell us a little bit about kind of the update of what you've discovered.
• 6:56
  unknown: Yeah.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I originally thought it was a five.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just reading more about the five, I think, from doing the mom script we had in your living room, reading more about the five, I was like, there are things definitely about the five that click for me, but specifically the research and very in your head piece, and like kind of, it was like a kind of sorta that clicked for me.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: And right after I had my daughter, I just postpartum was fun, not great actually.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I just started like reading more about the wings.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, okay, I'm just gonna like dive into the wings because had all this time um when I was nursing her.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so I started reading about the three and the four um wings because I remember something that you said when we were in your living room at that mom's group, you said that the wing or the gap between the four and the five.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but the diagram that you have, there's a big gap.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's there's no other gap that is that big.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I always felt like as a child that there was almost like a split personality for me.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was like, I like these things, and then all of a sudden, I'll change my mind and not like these things.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I like so dressed to fit my mood, and just all of these things of like, even how you told a story in your living room about how you decide to go to college, and I very much based on where I went to college based on no one else in my family is going where I'm going.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, this is where I'm gonna go because no one else is going there.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: That is how I decided, and then I started researching more about the three and the four, and I was like, I resonate so much more with the four based upon my mood.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And like I had always I talked to my husband, and I was like, I've always heard that I'm a moody person, like I will be friendlier if my mood suggests it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm very much full of my feelings.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: And my husband was like, That's 100% you all the time.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he was like, Like, I can walk out of the room and come back, and your mood has shifted completely.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, who is this person now?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: So that is, I was like, he's lived with me for seven years, he knows.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: He does know.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: I thought what was really interesting because we talk about the sad nauseum, but it's so important about how the Enneagram helps us understand who we were before the world told us who we needed to be.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: You were talking about your journals that you have gobs of journals, and you pulled them out and you were sharing them with your husband.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: And what was some of the revelation there?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: Gosh, I feel like I told you something specific, and now I don't remember what it was.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I know that I have journaled since I was 12.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I would go through like four or five a year as a teenager.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: And the that only slowed down once I had my son, like the very first child.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: It was the only time it slowed down, and still, I still go through two or three, like it's probably two at this point, but I still try to journal regularly because for me that's where I like get all my feelings out, and it was always a healthy process.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like I told you something specific, but I honestly don't remember it.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's all right.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I remember, and it was the general idea that over and over again you would see the phrase about how you feel like you don't belong and you're not wanted, you're not seen.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Really, a lot of the core expressing in total innocence and Ivy Chase the longings, the fears of a type four.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of that I think played into your revelation moment of going, oh yeah, that is how I've always felt.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I articulated it without any pressure to come up with a phrase, and it was there again and again and again.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, even when I talk about trying to help uncover people's type, if they do like a session with me, I will look for clue words and phrases and even things do they tend to say think or feel or respond or do?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: It just even instinctual triads, it's just fascinating how really the Enneagram has been a part of our language and how we expressed ourselves for so long, we just didn't realize it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's taking time to clue in.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So well, it's fun.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: I so appreciate um your friendship, regardless of what type you lead as, but the fun spin on life that you provide me, the insights, the unique, um just even the space to to be vulnerable and to share and to be authentic.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you challenge me that in so many different ways.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So but this, you know, this conversation is not all about going, oh, angels love you.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I would love to hear kind of now your perception as you go through your day, as you're raising two little ones and running a business and all the things on your plate, just now go, oh yeah, I think the reason I run my day the way I do is because I lead as a four.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: As soon as I became a parent, actually, it was like I realized I didn't like schedules.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like the word schedule to me was just too strict and rigid.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't like the boxiness of it.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: And like I've always said that, but didn't really understand like what I didn't like about it.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: I just didn't like the like at 1 p.m.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: we will nap and at 2 p.m.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like the only part of the day that is quote unquote structured for us is nap time, event time.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like those are the only times, and even those, honestly, they flow.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: Clearly, as my child came out earlier.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I also realized that for me the hardest part of my day is the mundane, is realizing that not every moment is big and extraordinary.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's not the big moments because I run a business.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Those are great to snip and snap and write down and formulate into a story because that is part of my business, the storytelling.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: But realizing that really motherhood is the mundane and little moments, and those the hardest for me.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like even today, my son was like, let's sit down and play Legos.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And while most mobs might be like, Yay! I was like, awesome, let me set a 20-minute timer and sit without my phone and pretend that this is a cop and robber 17 times over.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds good.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_04: So you're such a good mom.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Those are just the really hard where I'm like, okay, buddy, the timer is the timer gonna go off anytime soon because I just want to be dead playing the same storyline.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's all I guess that mundane.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Nope.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Nope.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: So that repetitive mundane is just, I've realized that those are the moments I actually have to seek out almost because those are the ones that are actually stretching me.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: And those are the ones that are speaking to them.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: So that 20-minute timer, which is something you taught me, of just sitting down and really intentionally loving on him or her, whoever I'm with at that point, is actually filling their cup, even though it actually is very much refining and stretching for me, and realizing that it's okay, it's refining and stretching for me, and not being like, I'm not a bad mom because I don't like these moments, but I am still refining myself by doing them anyway.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's for me as a four, I'm realizing how much I have walked in my emotions and my feelings, and then I'm like well, I don't feel like hanging out with a friend today, so I won't.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, realizing that part of adulting and part of motherhood is doing things regardless of how you feel, and not to the detriment of yourself, but to push yourself, to refine yourself because we're not called to live in our emotions and our feelings.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: We're allowed to feel them because they're valid and they're real, but moving beyond them.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's honestly what this last year has been is been learning to be like, I don't feel like working in my business, but I'm gonna move beyond that and do it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: I don't feel like sitting down and playing cops and robbers, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't feel like eating a healthy meal and doing something that's gonna fuel my body for later, but guess what?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna do it anyway because I have to move beyond what I feel in this moment because it's gonna aid me later.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: That has been how I structure my day recently.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: That I think that's profound.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's about setting an intention and going, yeah, I this is not how I would prefer to do things.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this isn't my strength, but I'm gonna step out of my weaknesses and go, all right, Lord, this is how I can show my kids, my family, myself that, you know, I'm setting my heart in the right direction.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: So as I do these things, I think the Lord meets you in that.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen such great fruits from your life in setting your heart that way towards your kiddos and just into motherhood in that way.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to know, you've touched on a couple of things, but if I were to just call it out like this, what about motherhood stresses you out the most?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: The energy that I have to expound, give out day to day, even in just the moments.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like I always worry, like, okay, well, and even I guess even more than that, it's the overstimulation that I feel on a constant basis, like the emotional overstimulation.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's just so many people, and it's only two extra people, but it's like it's so many people, it's more people, it's not me.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's just constant in your face all the time.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: I need something.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's honestly been the hardest of like when they are all under 10, even if it's happy 10, like even if they're like happy screaming, running around the couch playing with each other, it's still like, okay, please just stop making so much noise because it's so many more people in the space I'm in.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, which those are the things that are like it sounds shame to say for me.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's because I'm like they're happy and they're running around and they're playing, but it's like that's just still so loud and overstimulating to my brain, and I can't think through I don't have time or space to feel emotions, if that makes sense.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, yeah, I think that's the hardest part.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's real.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that really is connected into even the stance of withdrawn that the four, five, and nine are in, that there's such value to you to be able to pull away and have just independence and autonomy, and like you said, the time to think, the time to process, the time to feel.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're in a small space, especially in a year like this, that can really get draining really quick because then you refuel in having that time to process and in a healthy way.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that makes a ton of sense.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what has been one of the maybe biggest revelations about your personality tying into that you realize, oh, this has made your motherhood unique and it looks so different than maybe you know, some of your best friends or your sister and things like that?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's that I try to validate at the very least our children's emotions as best as I can, is that regardless if, and I will say I don't always love it, but regardless if like my toddler's throwing a tantrum or my daughter's having feelings because now she's throwing tantrums, which is so fun.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um at any age, I still try to validate their emotions.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's something that my husband was even saying.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: He was like, even if he's just stabbed his toe, or even if she simply just wants a cuddle, you're still trying to be like, okay, but are they tired?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Are they hungry?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what's that?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: What's the draw behind that emotion?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then how can I just help you and be like, I understand you feel X, Y, or C because I noticed that my son is in a very similar stance as I am, specifically with him.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: I try to validate, like, I understand this is how you're feeling, but we can't act like this just because of how we feel.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it's honestly just pre-just to me every time.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, every time I'm like, you can't stay here.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: I want to stay here.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's even more fun having a child that's in the exact same stance as you.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: But you're like, I understand you're having this feeling, but we have to move beyond this, as I tell myself that.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I understand you're frustrated, but we have to move beyond this.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's good.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then that ties into another question I have.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, conflict looks different at each stage and age.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm dealing with teenage conflict and you're dealing with toddler conflict.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do you deal with that when they come against you and they're challenging and expressing their feelings in wild ways?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: I would say I'd probably over talk on the talker.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm like, this is I just recently started to tell him like how it makes me feel because I realized that there might be some validity to that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: But most of the time it's like, I'll talk to him because that for me is the best way I've found for him and me.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, you know, okay, that was, and I use big words.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: My husband will tell you that I use big words with him.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm like, that was disrespectful.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: He may, a three-year-old may not understand it, let's learn.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm like, he's got the talent.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he knows what I'm talking about.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: So with conflict specifically with him, it's like, I don't know, it's different in every situation for him.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think specifically if he's having like wild emotions, it's like, okay, but why?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what is the heart behind this emotion?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: And if I can already tell, like what it is, like you know, sometimes you can just tell it's like, all right, if it's not healthy and you just want to express it very wildly, then you can withdraw and go to your room for a little bit.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: But if it's like something where I'm not fully understanding the root of it, it's like, okay, well, we're home.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: We have the time and space to sit down and like what's happening.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, so I'm gonna allow, let's talk about this.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: But then there are some times where it's like, okay, we both need to go to opposite corners of this room.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: And you take your time, we'll set a time on Alexa, and when we come back, we'll talk about it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because most of the time when they're having wild emotions, it will not trigger, but it's just it can sometimes, I feel like for me, set me to a hundred if I'm not careful.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so I have to take that space to be like, okay, Lord, this is not about him, but this is the root of something else.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: And like, why is it triggering something else in me from whatever?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: And that might not just be like past things, it can, but it's like I have to take that time because it and at the end of the day for me, I'm realizing it's more about I need to be able to come to him in a good place, or else we won't get anywhere.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like it'll just stay right where it is.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm wondering in particular, because I know we've talked to Enneagram for a couple of years, and we've talked to Enneagram from a seven perspective, from a type five perspective, and now a type four.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you've gone through the course, the worksheets, the study that I've written and provided.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm now that you're kind of on this side and you really have you've absorbed it for who you are, you're trying to integrate it into just your life and how you operate.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: What's one of been one of the most beneficial things of understanding how you lead that helps where you where you are feeling like, I'm winning?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually understanding this is.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Empowering my motherhood.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think when I was able to fully absorb like walking from a seven to a five to a four is the mom challenge.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like in your course book, you have a mom challenge of just how you win.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not remembering off the top of my head what the specific one is for the four, but I do know that taking that mom challenge and reading the lines of stress is realizing, okay, this is where I am stressed right now.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like I am stressed out by overstimulation, and what can I do to help that?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: And because I am now knowing this in the withdrawaling stance, I know how to ask for what I need and not be ashamed of that.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: And also not have to manipulate to get there and not have to be like, well, I just wish that someone would just give me time and space to be alone, but really just looking at because for me, it would be a partner, like it would be my husband and being like, I need time and space alone.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, haven't had it, just need it, and not have to work around because I realized it was a conversation we had recently, but it was like I worked around this.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: I just wish someone would give me time and space alone.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: I wish someone would just like Prince Charming, come to my aid because I realized I'm also in the romantic stance, so I want someone to save me at some point.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, just somebody just come in and just be like, Oh, Angel, I see that you need time alone, and I just I'm gonna come help you and take your babies and like I can romanticize that thought.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Or I could just look at the person that is in my life and go, I need time and space alone.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I love these babies, but I need them up out of this two-bedroom apartment so that I can breathe, so I can enjoy my house.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: And it's something as simple as that is realizing that I so value aesthetics and I so value the space that I'm in, but when I do have kids, it's not a lot of time to enjoy that space.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so this past Sunday, I looked at my husband and I was like, I need you to take these babies to church, and I'm not going.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I sat for three hours and I honestly just enjoyed my space.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: I enjoyed not space physically, I mean that too, but my physical house being like I've created such a light, airy house, and I love it.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I opened the windows and I diffused a blend and I drank tea and I talked to the Lord and just really felt good and felt like a win because I didn't have to one manipulate to get there, and two, I asked for what I needed clearly and concisely, and he was more than happy to do it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I think for me those are wins.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have to work around it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I can just be like, this is what I need, K bye.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: That is beautiful, and I have I've seen that confidence come out in our conversations, but also watching that confidence come out even as I observe you interact with others, and it's beautiful to see it's inspiring, it's encouraging, and I know that's even something that you communicate really well through the grams.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: You communicate that in your teaching and in your your Friday encouragement blasts and just all the resources and things that you have there, that confidence has grown.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's empowering to others.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it because it's so good.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because really, if we could all learn, because on some level or another, we tend to manipulate and we think that's gonna help us, then it just ends us all in a really rotten place and miserable and unhappy.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: So give it all the spiral and just end.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, perfect.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as we finish here, I have three rapid fire questions.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you can take as long or as little to answer them.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, in a word or a phrase, how would you describe what it looks like for a type four to flourish in motherhood?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Getting out of your emotions and doing it anyway.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Woohoo! Girl, got the mic.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you talked about your Sunday.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sounded like amazing soul care.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: What other soul care routine that you can do on the regular?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Can't always stay home from church.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: What what are you doing these days to help take care of you?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's a new timer trick.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: You taught me a set of timer trick.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: So because I run a business from home, I will set and it varies every day.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I have more work to do, and so the timer will be shorter, and sometimes I have less work to do, so the timer will be longer.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: But it helps me have an end to the mundane, and I know that sounds mean, but it helps me have an end to the mundane to move on to whatever is next.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: If that is cleaning the house, that's cleaning the house.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: If that's running my business, that's running my business.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: But it helps, and it's like a you said a framework, but it's a framework to the day so that I can know, okay, we have we're gonna move on.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like there will be more extraordinary things coming in my day, and I won't always sit and play cops and robbers.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then it helps me actually enjoy Cops and Robbers more because then I'm like, there's an end to Cops and Robbers, and he will feel loved and he will feel like I gave him all of my time and all of my attention, and then move on to something else, and he will hopefully just want to do something else for that.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love the timer.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's so helpful for so many different things.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, last but not least, what is a spiritual growth book that you've read, enjoyed, and you would recommend to your type four friends?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: Missional motherhood.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: But it has actually been the best book for me.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm reading it again.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: I've read it every year that I've been a mother, but it actually helped me have a vision for my motherhood beyond just the sitting down and playing Legos, beyond, but realizing that my children are not only children, but they're disciples, and they're sometimes little disciples that have sins and throw tantrums and things like that because they're human and seeing them as people that will grow up and go into the world, and what can I impart to them now, specifically out of the Bible?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: So it's very biblically based, which I love.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so it helped me view them as disciples that people I'm trying to give my all to, but not onto this like sacrificing or lay myself out and get slashed and die for, but I can love them and be so intentional with them to teach them verses, and it might be five minutes of ministry, and the rest of the day looks like playing Legos, but realizing that those five minutes were very intentional and very extraordinary to them and onto their future whatever endeavors.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that is really good.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I really loved there's so much wisdom in all of this.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: I can think of a ton of takeaways, practical takeaways, even for moms listening, whether you lead as a type four or you have a friend who leads as a type four, maybe you're married to one or raising one.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any other last words of wisdom that you would give to encourage those moms?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: Learn to live in the gap.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: You said there's a gap between four and the five and the six, I believe.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is that yeah, the four and five?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the four and five.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: There's a gap.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think if you are a five or a four, that there is a giant gap and it sometimes feels like that split personality, I think I mentioned earlier, and learning to live in the gap and know that it's not a split personality, but it's just it's that very intentional gap that's there.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so sometimes that will reflect in your clothing or your aesthetics or your motherhood or your marriage or all of these other things, and learning to live in that gap and know that Jesus lives in that gap with you.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so, wow, that was my thought of the best.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: That is a good word.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is so good.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Angel, for sharing.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I so appreciate it.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, of course, I love this conversation, and I hope you did as well.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think there were a lot of insights about life as Enneagram 4 as it pertains to motherhood.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful that Angel was willing to share with us again, and I hope you will check out her beautiful feed on Instagram.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can find her at hello angelrose.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I so appreciate my healthy Enneagram 4 friends.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: They really do remind me to take more time to explore and process my feelings and stories for the health of my spirit and body.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now, maybe you listened and you wish that you had a mom's group like ours or a couple of friends who could talk about the Enneagram.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know this year has been really difficult to gather with others and even to share deep, meaningful conversations.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I promise I am working on something special for you to help you in your motherhood journey.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: While you wait, I've created this ebook from the perspective of motherhood as it relates to the Enneagram for you to download today.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've packed it full of helpful information.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll not only walk away understanding your core fears and weaknesses, but you'll walk away with understanding about how each type is uniquely gifted for motherhood, plus after specific challenges, reflection questions, and truth statements that I use with my clients.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can read it on your phone, or you can print it out and refer to it as we go through these special podcast episodes this month of October.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to know that you are the mom for the job.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm here to champion you to love it.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply wholehearted life.