Latest / Black Fridays: Business Growth for Entrepreneurs, Creators & Professionals / How Detroiters Are Taking Control of Their Own Narratives - Ep. 191 w/ Orlando Bailey

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How Detroiters Are Taking Control of Their Own Narratives - Ep. 191 w/ Orlando Bailey · Black Fridays: Business Growth for Entrepreneurs, Creators & Professionals

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: flipping the traditional news media model on his head is one of the most salient things that we can do right now where there is, you know, mistrust and distrust and journalism is at, and all time high.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: What I like to say is there is no journalistic output from Detroiters without Detroiters input.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what that helps us do is it helps us build trust.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: It helps us build relationships, right?
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how the city of Detroit functions.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Detroit runs on relationship.
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: My mission is simple, bro, to provide platforms for black people to express their power and expertise.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Inherent in that mission is the fact that black people are already powerful.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: not empower anybody.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm creating this space for black folks to express that power.
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: work in professionals, creators, entrepreneurs, I need you out of tap the enter.
• 1:21
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• 2:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now let's go ahead and get back into the episode.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: What up Bill Black Friday family, welcome back to another installment of Black Friday's podcast.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Before we get into today's episode in Egypt, I like buttons, subscribe, drop a comment since some videos to family friends and love ones so that we can keep this thing going.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now that we got that business out of the way, hailing from the east side, you trade.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got an Emmy award winner, journalist in the building, executive director of Outlier Media, Mr Orlando Bailey, how you doing today?
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing well, how are you?
• 2:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing pretty well, man, how about yourself?
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, it is, it's a Monday when we're recording this, and I'm feeling good.
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I slept all day yesterday, so I'm energized, I'm ready to go.
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to be on, I've been watching, thanks for the invitation.
• 2:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, happy to finally have you here.
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: We got a chance to meet at the...
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, do you track me as business summit?
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think last summer.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Last fall.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anzilee.
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of that.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing your thing.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hosting with, hosting with you.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hosting with Anzilee.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was a lot of fun.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's a nerd like me.
• 2:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't realize it.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: She really, she really got love for the game.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: She really true to me.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: We nerded out, especially like in our prep.
• 3:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she preps the same way that I prep so that like we are.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that I know exactly what I'm doing and where I need to be.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then she also just enjoyed we both enjoyed the content, which was great.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it was good meeting you were great on stage at the summit last year It's coming again this year.
• 3:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm one stage again.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh back.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hopefully I get the invitation to come back Yeah, I would love to I'll be in the building regardless of how flagged chance to be back on the stage Yeah, and then as far as what that's your first time meeting you or it was my first time I had never met her.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh wow.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I never met her
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was my first time and we synced up the morning before we went live and talked about how we want to play it, what we want to do, how we want to have fun and bounce off of each other.
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we just had like an easy natural chemistry like she's really good at what she does.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like to think that I'm okay at what I do in that arena and we have fun with it.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was so much fun.
• 3:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 4:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so one thing I noticed in terms of your career and the work that you do is that there is always a balance between being able to leverage media and being able to have a community focus as well.
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I would love to be able to start with your work.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: what you do currently as far as outlier media that kind of combines both of those two worlds for you and to learn more about outlier for people who are not too familiar and I'll admit I found out about outlier probably within the last two to three years myself so I feel like learning and figuring out what it's all about so I would love to be able to get
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: that background in history, regarding outlier means.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man, outlier is celebrating 10 years of existence.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were founded in 2016 by a recovering attorney in the person of Sarah Elvarez, who was really disillusioned with the way media had been showing up for Detroiters, especially Detroiters, who have some of the highest and most pressing information needs.
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at the time outlier was being founded, we were also in the midst of what we now know to be a massive tax foreclosure crisis, where Detroit lost a third of his homeowner's two property tax foreclosure.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: What we now know is that at the time, properties were being overassessed.
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: to the tomb, some reporting at the Detroit News was say $600 million.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so before outlier ever wrote a story, we built an SMS system where folks were able to text in, address this to figure out the text status of grandma's home, of their home, or the home on their block.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: At a time where it was really, really needed, right?
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: People needed to know,
• 5:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: what was going on on their black and with their family homes.
• 5:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: We only built the news portion of our website.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe almost six years ago.
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a little bit under that, because what Sarah was saying, what Candice Foreman or inaugural executive director was saying is that people needed
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Information instantly before they want to read your story arc, right?
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because we love to write stories.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're journalists.
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we love to do.
• 6:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But people need the information more instantaneously.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we were able to build out a news when we have about 20 folks.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: What I would say about outliers that is the perfect amalgamation of media that is steeped in community.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I come from a background of community development.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Although I was trained as a journalist when I graduated college.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were no jobs in journalism and a woman by the name of Maggeta Santis was running a non-profit place based non-profit on the east side It was like, I got a job for you and I was there for ten years first as a contractor then an employee doing community work
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, outlier, it's deep in community in that we build on this iterative model of listening to Detroiters, tell us what their highest and most pressing information needs are, what is of priority to them.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: They are our assignment editors.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, we then create news, we create beats that are tailored to what Detroiters are telling us that they need.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: and then they're always going to be things that we're going to cover.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're always going to cover utility costs, right?
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're always going to cover housing because that is an issue that continues to be pervasive for folks, housing unaffordability, you know, renters and what they're dealing with with derelict landlords and stuff like that.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're always going to do stuff around civic life and city government, but some of the other stuff that we've been able to do folks have texted us, saying hey, you should look at this, and then we do it information eases assessment, that's how we hear from Detroiters, we view them, and that builds our journalistic output, and then we're like, we're buying people coffee every month.
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're coffee.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is days when we're popping up at events.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we can take you to try to make sure that we're in everybody's face all the time.
• 7:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that they can tell us about their experience, but also so that they can hold us accountable if we get it wrong.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And why is it important just might be a bit of a rhetorical question.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But why is it important to be able to give the people that much power in terms of what it is that you all
• 8:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: report on because traditional news systems and even like you say as a journalist, you create your art, your story based on the information or whatever and then you tell the people about it and whatever way that you deem fit.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: So why is it important to do the inverse to be able to say what you all tell us what you care about and we'll go and do the do diligence on it.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think flipping the traditional news media model on his head is one of the most sailing at things that we can do right now, where there is mistrust and distrust and journalism is at an all-time high.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some of it is much deserved, right?
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some of it is not, but a lot of it is deserved, especially when we have built
• 8:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: corporate media newsrooms, that are way more extractive than relational newsrooms that want to talk to folks, especially black folks in the city of Detroit, on the worst days of their lives.
• 9:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you never hear from them again.
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so what I like to say is there is no journalistic output from Detroiters without Detroiters input.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what that helps us do is it helps us build trust.
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: It helps us build relationships, right?
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how the city of Detroit functions.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Detroit runs on relationships.
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so to that end, the Pew Research has done study after study about trust and mistrust and journalism, and mistrust and journalism, especially on part of Black people, has always been high.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when we look at the story arc of Detroit, even just going back from to 2008, leading into the bankruptcy in our emergence from bankruptcy, it was black people that bore the brunt of the death decay and the dilapidation of the city of Detroit, black people got to personify that without media paying real close attention to
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: systems and institutions and policies that render Detroit and solve it.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was the black people that made Detroit this way, right?
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, with our emergence from bankruptcy, with this resurgence narrative of the city of Detroit, black people weren't out front.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: um, in media, personifying that, right?
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so why wouldn't there be mistrust and distrust in media?
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so what we're seeking to do is build a newsroom where Detroit is going to see themselves.
• 10:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: They see me, I'm legit from the east side, right?
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: They can see air and parry are editor and chief, a lifelong detrator, right?
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Two black folks running a newsroom.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they get to see their stories reflect it and the journalism that we create.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a high honor and privilege to be able to do that.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's phenomenal.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, especially the work that you all been doing.
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: What does the day in the life look like for you as an executive director in that space?
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It depends on a day man.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would say it is dynamic, right, depending on the day.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So as the ED, you know, the business, the business function of outlier media rests under my hat, right?
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I could have a day where I'm like talking to attorneys.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could have a day where I'm out fun raising and talking to funders.
• 11:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could have a day where I'm like internal and improving, you know, our handbook and operational workflows, it's stuff like that.
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could have a day where I'm like writing mimos and agendas, it really is just a dynamic.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could have a day where I'm just doing nothing but internal meetings and check-ins.
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean like it really does depend there's no one day and my life looks the same.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got a day where I'm like, I'm here, I'm on DIV or I'm doing it like it just, it really does just depend.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I love it that way I think.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you still get a chance to exercise your pen and do stories and stuff?
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
• 12:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is something I miss.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was able to do that a lot more.
• 12:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: When I was at British Detroit, you would see my bi-line at British Detroit.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: The outlier has this firewall where our business side does not touch our editorial side.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: We keep it separate for many reasons, integrity,
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: being, you know, our utmost priority and I don't want to reach that firewall and have not air in Perry won't let me, that's our editor and chief.
• 12:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I've not been able to exercise my pain outside of my own little journal.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I have a, you know, I have a journaling practice, but that's it.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm going to take a break, a pause and an action to introduce from my favorite part of Black Friday is which is freestyle Fridays.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're talking about you're nice with the pin and you're journal.
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna need some bars for anything Oh, man.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're gonna need some bars for you.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna need Lisa.
• 13:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's moved 6868 Whatever you got in the chamber.
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: We gonna need that right now right now.
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 13:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, snap.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got it right
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is how you like you catch me of guard with this win, bro, man, man.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you know, man, I've diced with the pin.
• 13:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna get off on your lead.
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't listen.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Save me now.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: saying.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so you know, you actually don't have to rap.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you now.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate the effort, but I can recite a joke.
• 14:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can recite a joke.
• 14:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can do off the top, off the top.
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: But freestyle Friday is really just asking a random assortment of questions.
• 14:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's all about you.
• 14:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I just need to answer each one of the answers.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, got you.
• 14:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so you from the east side, what part?
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: the northeast side so grew up around the dimby neighborhood okay and in morning side morning side so in terms of being a true east side why school you go to I went to Detroit School of Arts oh DSA alright my neighborhood high school would have been funny or just now easing as realist prep or dimby okay shout to the fan I want to DSA yeah so as long as you ain't
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I go we we need to have this conversation with this cast-tech elitism, man I mean, you know I agree.
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: We go circle back to ourselves since I got you here.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't circle back to it But I want you to say something nice about the west side.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh Nice gowns
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to meet you.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, every time I go visit her, I'm just amazed.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, man, this is super dope.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had the opportunity for to go to the rocket mortgage classic for the first time off the Detroit golf club.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Which is basically like Sherwood for my beautiful.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got some sights.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fish on the west side.
• 15:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: We appreciate it.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: We appreciate that.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what would you say is the greatest TV show of all time?
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: The greatest TV show of all time.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man, I don't know why Martin just popped up in my brain.
• 16:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's such a Detroit gym.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, about say you Detroiters and Martin, man.
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a Detroit gym.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's got to get on the chokehold.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I will also say, Shonda Rhimes is grazing at me.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, for like, it's like 25, it's like 20 some years old.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's still going on.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's still going on.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, especially watched it from the beginning, right?
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a weekly prime time soap opera.
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like the first 10 seasons, at least, we, you know, give or take season five.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can stand that storyline with Izzy hallucinating about Denny Duket, but like,
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Grayson Adamy was much watch TV.
• 16:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember that time?
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I remember when it first came out, I remember watching the first season, but I didn't get past that.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of the great fans.
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You had a black man as the chief of surgery.
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, it's kind of rhymes.
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's always been just super intentional.
• 17:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
• 17:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a, it had me and my family and the choco for the lot for a long time.
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And who would you say?
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because you are typically on a, typically in my seat in terms of being able to interview
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: have meaningful conversations, but with you, we get a chance to exchange flip roles in this engagement, but I would love to know who is your favorite interview that you ever had.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Amen.
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had shout out to the Charles A.'
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: 's right museum for African-American history and Lance Wheeler.
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Lance Wheeler asked me to interview the Shabbas sisters, Malcolm Max's daughter.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was four.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: In milk aid.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: In milk aid?
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, in milk aid.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Marlitha King Day.
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 17:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, these are, you know, two girls who witnessed
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: their father's murder.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I began to think about how many people were in the ballroom that day who are still alive and who can still give an eyewitness account.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Probably not that many people, but to be on stage with his daughters,
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: and to have his older daughter recount what that experience was like for her.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: She was so generous with me and with the audience.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was sitting there, I was completely in my body the entire time listening to, you know,
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: their lives, with their dad and after their dad and their relationship with the King family, I was in tears.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm hardly ever cried during interviews, but that touched me.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And their connection to Detroit, of course, was just so rich.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I have to say Lance Wheeler, the rightest responsible for my one of my favorite interviews of all time.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's fire.
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's fire.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: not a lot of people can say they do that.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Man, what?
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember just sitting there and saying, okay, oh, you are going to let this happen because they got on the roll and, you know, most of the time, you know, we see interview is trying to like fight.
• 19:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: for their question and they're trying, you know, like we prepare for this and I was very prepared our over-prepared of course.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But sometimes and what I'm always looking for in an interview is when it goes from just a conversational exchange to where that conversation reaches a metaphysical divine point.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it did and it was like, do you be quiet and you let this happen?
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the room
• 19:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: the room was moved.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: The room was stirred in a way that I had not seen in a long time.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Probably I've seen it again in April was the April or May I interview Brian Stevenson.
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just Mercy Brian Stevenson.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And another another man.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: What?
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: No words.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: No words.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so just, you know, like letting it happen.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 20:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 20:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is there any interviews you want to add to the infinity stone?
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So just be...
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, on my on authentically Detroit, there was a conversation that I remember having, I remember Donna being absent this day.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I just like flood at the studio.
• 20:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I need a guest, go host, I need some guests.
• 20:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we just we talked about, we talked about Detroit and we talked about our love for Detroit.
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a local interview with Chase Cantrio.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Lauren Hood and Architectural Designer Bucky Willis and today's day is just like one of my favorite conversations you got to listen to it it was so free flowing it was just a lot of fun and I think the chemistry was there because all of us were friends I've interviewed Nicole Hannah Jones like three times
• 21:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: easily just like one of my favorite people to interview.
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: She suffers no nonsense.
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: You come, you come correct.
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: You who else, man.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jason Reynolds.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: We now prolific author.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember,
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: When I realized that I wanted to interview him, I heard his voice first and he sounded like one of the homies from the east side Yeah, and he was he was on his podcast with Chris a typical on being do you listen on being he was on on being
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, who's this brother?
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Talkin' to Chris the Tippit, like, regular.
• 21:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Children's author, young, youth, young adult author.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was the National Ambassador for Young People's Literature with the Library of Congress, number one New York Times bestseller off.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Got to interview you to him twice, and like, it's super dope to say like, oh, we're friendly, you know what I'm saying?
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I could hit him up, you know, he'll reach, it's so, yeah, so many people, so many people.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I out, people gonna be mad that I started
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: for sure I bet and then last but not least what's the craziest thing that you've heard about your city come out of somebody mouth the craziest thing you heard about you true oh man it was this video that was circulating the internet not too long ago these two women
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that said, man, don't spend money.
• 22:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, he's spending money.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this is it, right?
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because when nobody's tricking on him, and I was just like, this is nuts.
• 22:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is crazy.
• 22:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Stop it.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Please, please stop it.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, they're always, every time there is an election of significance in the city of Detroit, the president likes to get on his true social and bash Detroit and bash the county and every single allegation that he levies.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just always crazy and I'm just like, oh my goodness, you know what I'm saying?
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, but those two chicks and everything, I'm like, this is please stop y'all.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Stop.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you for partaking the freestyle for our days.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, that was fun.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: He, we got a couple bars, but you know what I mean?
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a couple bars in there.
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: With the pen and the lead.
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Next time, we don't add you to the mixed tape.
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to put you, I'm going to let you do it for it for the... We should do that.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a great idea.
• 23:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to figure that out.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm going to talk about it for years.
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like a little bit.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Compilation?
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, make it.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't beat you.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have to figure that out.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're going to talk.
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so real quick, I wanted to get before I get back into my question that I have for you, I know as you had mentioned, the cast tech elitism and what that looks like in the city to trade a lot of discussion around what education looks like, DPSCD, cast tech, the elitist, and whoever is of the city, what should I take on all of this in terms of cast tech elitism?
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Give a cast thank person the chance to you didn't with the cast.
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're gonna know it with the first team in Illinois.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: See you brought it up.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I did
• 24:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, you know, I'm really not here for Elitism in any form, right?
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I understand that there is a lot of conversation that's being pushed.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm, I'm, I'm paying attention a little bit of attention to what's going on with, you know, Brandy the Millennial Manager and some of the concerns that she's brought out in some of your conversation that is in the Detroit Ether period.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we should just take an overall look at, not just cast tech because I'm not here to bash technicians, I love technicians, I love people who go to cast, I love cast, I love cast.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 24:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: An overall look at what Elytism looks like in the city of Detroit.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is a majority black city, right?
• 25:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I believe that Elytism and Classism is a tentacle of white supremacy.
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: and it is always mind-boggling to me that white supremacy is still so pervasive in the city of Detroit by way of classism and elitism and it has black faces and we got to recognize that and we have to do a better job of checking ourselves
• 25:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: On that, we have to do a better job of checking our repairs when they, you know, partake in that, you know, I'm saying, I think, you know, we, we Detroiters at the end of the day and some of us live.
• 25:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, very different lives and Detroit experiences.
• 25:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know that mighty trade experience is probably different than that of the average Detroiter.
• 25:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make me better.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just different, exactly.
• 26:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just different.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we got to do a better job of just talking to each other, right?
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And recognizing the humanity
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and each other put me any put me down anywhere in the city of Detroit, including the west side.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got a pack of snack, you know, if we travel into the west side, it's a, it's a, it's a ways away.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like put me anywhere.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going, I'm going to find a common thread, right.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to talk to folks, right.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the day, we're gonna be family.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna be family.
• 26:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I'm trying to get us to.
• 26:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to move us away from this, oh, you got this, you don't got this.
• 26:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm this person, you know, I'm a member, I want to cast, I'm a member of the DEC, it's like, bro.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: None of this matter at all.
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: None of that matters.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: None of that matters.
• 26:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you afford to live where you live?
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you afford to drive in this city, right?
• 27:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is Detroit giving to you more than it's taking from you, right?
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so let me give people permission who may feel like they're on the, on, you know, a little higher up on the social register and we were talking about this before we went on air, you know, on about about that.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ain't nobody swimming in dough right now.
• 27:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 27:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: it is a struggle keep it a book keep it a book people are struggling and you are too you are too it's so let let's be honest about it i got these on the HSA i can't nothing you know that's me let's be honest
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's be honest, and you know, the sooner we could be honest, the sooner we can get back to really, really loving each other.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And killing this, this quiet, but deadly, like competitive spirit and speculative spirit that I see in some of our spaces.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I hate it.
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're fan of somebody, tell them.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you love what somebody is doing, tell them.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I'm so rich and blessed in relationships because I don't mind telling people like yo, that's dope, you're dope, I love that.
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I see what you're doing, I'm a fan, love it, you know what I'm saying?
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whether I get to be a part of it or not, that's not the goal, the goal is never for me to always try to be a part of something, it's for me to affirm the work ethic that somebody is putting in like yo, I see you, I love it, keep going, it takes, it's no cost to do that, man.
• 28:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: No cause.
• 28:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 28:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's what I'm about man.
• 28:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's spread love and positivity.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I agree with everything that you said because as far as that conversation goes, like I love being in a technician and I love my school and so I talk about other schools and fun.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So really just paying a rent and rent the time.
• 28:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, if I do chose this.
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a great thing for us to put funding.
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that might be you.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those are our HBCUs, so I just like to, I like to rep mine, but like I think about a time when I went to a DPSCD event, and I just kind of like, with them myself got a little disgusted, because I thought about all the people who were kind of represented, who were either speaking or doing certain things at the event, and you heard a lot of the same school, Renaissance, Cast, Cain, whatever.
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just like, I've done a lot of work and we're young people across the city at different schools.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I went to cast obviously, but I didn't bend the Osborne, I didn't bend the Cody, I didn't bend the stuff of Easter, and I didn't bend to like all these other schools that are not considered magnets schools, or whatever the case may be, and just seeing first hands and other challenges that they dealt with, and even though I went to cast, we had our own challenges.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: We had toilet paper for months, like in a school, we used to share old textbooks, like it's not what everybody thinks that it is, and so I like what a lot of conversation is happening, that's being unearthed with.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of discord and conversation around what brandy the millennial manager is kind of bringing up because it's kind of exposed and a lot of that like the the lead is raised in the hands like we were at about the wrong issues here like we really like let's focus on these kids Let's provide more opportunities because there is no reason that someone who goes to a Cody Shab different opportunities someone who goes to a cast and goes to a month for it that goes to a hospital
• 30:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm about to say Fanny, but you think it's really nice, but yeah, it's out to the fan.
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Got a bunch of homies from the fan, but nobody did, none of these opportunities should look different for any of these kids for any reason.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, and then when you think about it, you peel back a lot of the layers.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of the same stuff going on and a lot of the same and a lot of these schools is just just up different for some of these, for some of these other schools.
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, we definitely got to be a, that's, that's the bigger issue that we got to deal with.
• 30:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: These, uh, lead us ideologies.
• 30:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: These, um, like respectability, politics and stuff like that.
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's rampant in the city and, you know, it's been here for for a long time and it really,
• 30:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: does that have any place if we're going to be able to truly elevate our communities, our people, the next generation?
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or elevate the city?
• 31:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 31:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: If the schools aren't doing well, the city won't do well.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know we're talking about a comeback or revitalization and resurgence in the city of Detroit.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have my own issues with that narrative.
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: We could talk about that if you want to.
• 31:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like, right,
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: if our schools don't do well and I think I ran to the Millennial Manager.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if she was expecting to get so many images.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: She cuts so good too.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's so great.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, good.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: God.
• 31:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful.
• 31:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: She can really cut.
• 31:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But with her platform, she's bringing light to issues that have played folks for a long time that you know, folks with our platform haven't been able to express.
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: compound it with that we had to have a look at the structure, the overall structure and how schools are funded and parents advocacy, the boards advocacy for more per pupil funding.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about national funding coming through the state, the state giving out per pupil funding.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is also just a funding inequity.
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: that exists within our state, in terms of how schools and how districts are funded and so where is that money from the lottery go?
• 32:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 32:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Always ask that question.
• 32:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: That money gets trickled down and broke down throughout the state.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, looking at looking at it from that holistic standpoint,
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, going to the school board to advocate on behalf of children within the Detroit Public School Community District.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what does that advocacy look like in Lansing?
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: What does that advocacy look like at the federal legislature, right?
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so all of all of it
• 33:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: is something that we we got to look at.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we, you know, it was making waves outlier.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, okay, this is something.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is news.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: People are paying attention to this.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is in the ether.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't do a whole story on it, but we covered it in one of our newsletters.
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and talked about, you know, some of the concerns that were raised.
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're keeping, we're keeping a close eye on it.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely an interesting discourse.
• 33:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I love being able to have that conversation with you because it leads me to a question I have for you in terms of when did you identify that I know you went to school for journalism when did you identify that you wanted to be able to
• 33:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: You already got bit by the journalism book, but then being able to provide that communal element to the work that that the day it's that you do or coming out of school where you're just looking like, hey, wherever I can get in where I fit in as far as journalists opportunities, I'm going to go do it or whether it's very important for you even back then to like have a community focus with what you did.
• 34:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say a little bit of both.
• 34:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I went into a community development because that was where I can get a job.
• 34:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I sort of leverage those journalistic tenants that they teach us around being insatiably curious.
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: and creating spaces for people's voices to be heard.
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I employed that in my community development practice.
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I would say it goes back to me growing up before I can even really put together a coherent sentence or read or write that communal element with something that I literally grew up in with my grandparents, my grandma.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: My parents met because their parents lived on the same block, they lived down the street from each other.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I grew up on a block with two sets of grandparents.
• 34:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can imagine how lit childhood was when you had a block full of family.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And my maternal grandmother's house was the house,
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: that everybody descended upon like on the weekends.
• 35:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so my grandmother's ability to gather folks, love on folks, and talk about the happenings of the day.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I grew up knowing, right?
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I grew up witnessing that.
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: My grandmother got the Michigan Chronicle.
• 35:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: My grandmother got the Detroit Free Press, and she read it every day.
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, my nickname growing up was newspaper because I was legit fascinated with the newspaper.
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would try to read the paper like Grandma with her readers on.
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't read, you know what I'm saying?
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But by the sixth grade, I had my, I had purchased my first subscription to the Detroit Free Press.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: by the sixth grade and was reading it on the school bus on a way to Remus Robinson middle school.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't remember, I don't remember anything else.
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember wanting to be anything.
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember watching you Perkins on television on Fox 2 is like, man, I want to maybe I'll be able to do that one day.
• 36:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: People seem to trust what comes out of his mouth, right?
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: My grandmother watches him every night.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even like maybe you know, I'm sad and so I remember really wanting to do anything else Anything else and so outlier allows me to cultivate that gift that I know was given to me by my Amazing grandmother the matriarch of our family
• 36:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: to gather community, to exchange information, to laugh and have fun, you know, I'm saying, to solve conflict, you know, the house would be packed, man.
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't ever remember the police needing to be called, you know, I'm saying there's something happen, you know, grandma was able to handle it.
• 36:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're growing up, there was always a friend, a family member living in my grandmother's house.
• 37:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: She was helping folks without charging them, get on their feet.
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: This amazing woman gave me my gift and love for a Detroit and for a community.
• 37:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's where it came from.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember anything else.
• 37:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 37:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Shout out to Grandma.
• 37:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Shout out to Granny.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in terms of independent journalism or independent outlets, what would you say are some of the challenges that you all face today?
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I got a chance to touch on a little bit when I
• 37:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: had to interview Jameel here for the podcast and so we love to kind of know Jameel shout out to Jameel and we love to be able to know you are take on what the industry currently looks like and then like how do you combat being able to go against the machines where we're seeing a lot of like you talked a little bit
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: about the early and turn of the propaganda misinformation fake news how do you are you able to combat those things and fight the uphill battle yeah I would say the current condition of independent journalism is is challenging I'll keep it I'll keep it a buck with you if you are not an even corporate media corporate
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: is also having a challenging time for different reasons.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are a non-profit news outlet, right?
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, in a time where the commander in chief has made journalism and accurate reporting of information, public enemy number one,
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: That reverberates, people don't understand or realize how it reverberates locally.
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: This past year we spent more money on legal than we ever had to before, trying to make sure we defend ourselves against baseless litigation and lawsuits around our reporting.
• 39:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: We had someone threatened to call and did try to call one of our philanthropic funders about an investigation that we did.
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it is, you know what I'm saying like, that is a challenge in and of itself because we are primarily investigative newsroom, we don't make a whole lot of friends, you know what I'm saying?
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: But compound it with that, the economy,
• 39:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: is not doing well right now, and philanthropy is sort of real, real iffy.
• 39:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not a prophet, news organization, and so the big percentage of our revenue portfolio comes from philanthropy.
• 39:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: and philanthropies real skittish right now right and so that's challenging like how are we going to navigate our way through that i think in corporate media the traditional business model of journalism of at revenue has completely changed with streaming and with
• 40:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: the internet and so that business model is broken and so we're trying to figure out who we are, how we sustain and even beyond making a profit, how do we continue, but how do we continue to center people?
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: in the middle of what we're doing right while still trying to be sustainable so that we can continue to serve people that's the million dollar question right now that we're all trying to figure out we're all trying to figure out how to be profitable and then you have billionaires buying papers of record you have Jeff Bezos who owns the Washington Post yeah
• 40:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, and there was a, and it's a whole debacle around their editorial board and them not going to do endorsements, even though he said that he wouldn't, you know, force his hand on, you know, the lever there, right, what's happened at CBS with the elephants buying CBS in Paramount.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: these huge conglomerates and billionaires buying up our media outlets now.
• 41:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a scary time, it's a tumultuous time, and I think we're trying to figure out who we are and who we need to be on the independent side.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so a question for you in terms of that independent space and being able to have funding that comes from philanthropic philanthropy philanthropy philanthropy philanthropy philanthropy there we go.
• 41:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got you back to that.
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Appreciate you.
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So being able to be funded by philanthropy.
• 41:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: what does the, how do you not get influenced by who is is funding or be investing into the platform?
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love this question.
• 41:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love this question.
• 41:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Outlier does not play about our editorial independence.
• 41:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so in our conversation with every single funder and our conversation with every member because the traders give to us, right?
• 41:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: The traders are members of outlier, our
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is absolutely no weight that they can put on the scale of what our editorial priorities are.
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: They do not get involved.
• 42:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't allow them to.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so if folks are investing in us, they gotta know that.
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we also have this stance that all money ain't good money.
• 42:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you're going to try to put your hand on the scale of our editorial independence, we reject that, we reject that whole heartily.
• 42:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so no foundation tells us what to do.
• 42:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 42:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what to cover?
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
• 42:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So for example, if I gave you $20, and you could intern, turn around and investigate me and be like, he ain't really going to go to cast, we got a transcript, it's like, yeah, yeah.
• 42:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you know, and we also have, you know, a sponsor content side where, you know, different not profits and sometimes foundations want to story to get out there and we have very clear language that it's sponsor and things like that.
• 43:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and, uh, one of the sponsors for the Sponk on-site showed up on like our regular editorial journalistic site, and this past year, and it was really a good pressure test.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: to, you know, iron that out, right?
• 43:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we did, and we're good, right?
• 43:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why we have those systems and firewalls in place.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Love it.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Love it.
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 43:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And one thing I do love, I haven't had a chance to attend one myself yet, but you had mentioned earlier that you all about coffee for people.
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: We buy coffee, man.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so tell us more about that, how often you all are doing that, and really like getting in tune with the people.
• 43:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Every month on a Thursday,
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: We pop up at a coffee shop and we buy Detroit is coffee and we engage in conversation with them coffee Thursdays have been lit I mean, they are Probably one of my one of the favorite things that we do because it lowers the barrier of entry for Detroit is to engage with shepherds
• 44:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I believe that as journal is, we are shepherds of our history, we are shepherds of our our remembering, we are shepherds of our humanity and our stories.
• 44:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so being able to interface with Detroiters and hear their Detroit experiences keeps us honest.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
• 44:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It keeps us honest and it reminds us of the privilege that we carry in being able to put words to.
• 44:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: our experience, being able to document what is observed, and we know that it's valuable because Detroiters continue to turn out and come out and drink coffee with us and tell us yeah, y'all need to be looking at this, or did you hear about this, or yo, this thing that y'all did, thank y'all.
• 45:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: For doing that, we did an event around a city budget called Billion D'Arabiljah.
• 45:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a play on, of course, Wu-Tain, Clans, Creme, and we put together this space with some partners at Bruce D'Chorey and Detroitography where we put together an immersive experience.
• 45:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we were like, we do not want to talk at Detroiters, but we want Detroiters to tinker with.
• 45:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Gamify information around the budget so that they can know what's coming from where?
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, who's responsible for what and then give their opinions, right?
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Man, and so we want to continue to iterate on that and do that and provide spaces for Detroiters to show up as themselves However, they however Detroit want to show up.
• 45:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we want them to show up and so you know some folks show up mad Yeah
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: guy at every right to be mad.
• 45:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: This reminds her day, Salon said that you got the right to be mad.
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Got a lot to be mad about.
• 46:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she exercised that right whenever she gives out.
• 46:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 46:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: She does.
• 46:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 46:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so this Detroit.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: There we go.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: There we go.
• 46:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 46:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so in terms of the work that you've been able to accumulate over the years and continue to do, I wanted to see if I could get a little deep in terms of if you think about the next 30 years.
• 46:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: that we 30 years into the future.
• 46:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: What would you want your legacy to have look like for the work that you have put around the city and for the city?
• 46:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate the question.
• 46:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: For me, I will want my legacy to be that he fulfilled his mission.
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And my mission is simple, bro, to provide platforms for Black people to express their power and expertise.
• 46:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's it inherent in that mission is the fact that black people are already powerful.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not in power in anybody.
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm creating this space for Black folks to express that power.
• 47:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Black folk are already experts in their experience, right?
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that that frame is what I get at every single day.
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this frame coming from my love for Detroit, my love for Black folk, my love for brown folk, right?
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so 30 years from now, when we're having a conference, hopefully I'm still working, I'm still doing stuff, but hopefully the legacy up into that point would be that he achieved his mission.
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We all do a Black Friday special to the 8th circle back 30 years from now to be able to confirm like the complete mission.
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 47:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I certainly hope so.
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think every conversation, the repository of content that I've been able to amass.
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: and curate over the years, I hope is a testament to that, and as long as, you know, Detroit and everybody allows me to do it, man, I'm going to continue to do it.
• 48:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to continue to do it.
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thousands of percent.
• 48:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 48:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So tell the good folks where they could be able to support you, where they can support outlier donate, come get a coffee, all the above, where can they find you, what's the social, what's the website, all that?
• 48:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: outliermedia.org.
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can subscribe for free.
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: We will never put a pay wall up on our stuff.
• 48:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you can also become a paying member.
• 48:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: You could pay a dollar a month, two dollars a month, five hours a month, whatever floats your fancy outliermedia.org.
• 48:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're also media underscore outlier on Instagram, outliermedia on TikTok and on Facebook.
• 48:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can follow me on the socials or landlipy bayley on
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'm on ex-steel, barely on there, but on threads, Instagram, Orlando Bailey, on TikTok, I don't post on TikTok, but I love the TikTok and Orlando Bailey on Facebook and I'm on LinkedIn as well.
• 49:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: OrlandoP Bailey.com, you can shoot me a direct message there, also, and we'll get back to you.
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: dope and when when do y'all want to tag me in for investigative journalists piece because I want to go knock on the door I'm trying to do that man we can go do it every single day.
• 49:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: We say we can go kick in some door whatever y'all trying to do.
• 49:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well we we we we're not kicking in doors.
• 49:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not.
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not.
• 49:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're asking questions and sitting in the freedom of information.
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to be there.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to be there.
• 49:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like that.
• 49:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have not done video in that way, but I'm sure, you know, after a conversation with Dr. Aaron Perry, our editor in chief, she'll find a spot for you.
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
• 49:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Say less.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Orlando, man, it was great to have you on the show.
• 49:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Today, man, like I had mentioned to you before, I love the work that you're doing.
• 49:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 49:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Love everything that you, you stand for, and this is amazing and conversation, and hopefully opens the eyes to a lot of folks of like how we can.
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: As a community, it can be able to work better together, support the platforms that's on the front lines, that's actually doing the things or the people that's on the front lines, and doing the things so that we can be able to leave this place better than what we found it, which is a big mission of mine personally, and so when I see others doing it, I'm always inspired and want to be able to connect with, like mine, to folks like that, so appreciate you for being here and to go for a ride.
• 50:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me and from one pod head to another, congratulations on six years.
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And man, six years is nothing to snooze at in this podcast game, right?
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are many folks who start and they fizzle out because they don't recognize the amount of work that it takes.
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you've been at it, you've been excelling at it, a love watching it.
• 50:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Congratulations to you.
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for allowing me to be a part of it.
• 50:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anytime man, yeah, appreciate you.
• 50:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And everybody watching, listening, we're going to tap in which I'll soon.
• 50:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Peace.