Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Abide With Us | a conversation with Shelly Miller

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Abide With Us | a conversation with Shelly Miller · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:17
  SPEAKER_06: Hi, friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_06: We are so glad you're here joining us once again as we discover new ways to live more unplugged, purposeful, and intentional.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_06: Today we're excited to kick off the Thanksgiving weekend and the holiday season with our friend Ferlow's music in the background.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_06: This is his version of completely from his Christmas album.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_06: It's available on iTunes.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_06: And while you know you might want to check out his new album of a different story.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_06: Today's guest is Shelly Miller.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_06: I think you'll find her message a refreshing change of pace as we enter the usual usual hustle of the Christmas season.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_06: There is so much I want to share, but we cover a lot in our conversation.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_06: So without further ado, here is Shelly Miller.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: I have so missed the Today Show.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: And um I used to always watch the Today Show while I was getting ready for the day.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And um Hoda and Kathy Lee, it's fun to watch all those people again.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_06: I bet, I bet.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_06: Um I would definitely some of those familiarities.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_06: That's kind of what so Ashley was looking at your Instagram for feed and going, I'm a little jealous.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was looking at all the the sites of are you in London?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm assuming it's London.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're in London.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and all the the pops of red and the colors and the old buildings and the flowers and everything.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, oh, I'm kind of maybe a little envious.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's everywhere.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: I know the beautiful it's beauty is everywhere.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's um yeah, no matter where I go, no matter how many times I walk the same stretch of street, I always find something new.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's really nice.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I love I love looking at it for sure.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_06: I know on your the bio lines of your Instagram feed or profile, you say that you're an American expat in London, which is clever.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_06: So tell us a little bit, how how did you get there and you know what's the adventure right now?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so about um well, two and a half years ago, we landed there on a Macedonian call to London, which basically means my husband and I um had felt called to the British people for a good 15 years at least of our marriage.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: We had done a lot of traveling back and forth, had um good friends in London.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: My husband's work took him there often with the um, he's an Anglican priest.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: So we did a lot of leadership development and connecting there.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: And um about I guess it's been she was about three and a half, four years ago now, my husband just felt um that he was to leave his job before knowing and you know, basically to move to London without even having any kind of details about what that might look like.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it was definitely a leap of faith for us.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um it was the ninth move in our 27 years of marriage.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: And um we'd done it before, you know, moved when we sort of sensed um God leading us somewhere new, but we always knew where we were going and the detail what the details were gonna be.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: This is the first time that we really and truly took a leap of faith into this huge pool of uncertainty and waded through it, and it really has taught us a lot, obviously.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, my goodness, that's awesome.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_06: So, how long does this stay look like for you?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we hope we're there forever.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: So my husband's awesome.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's so cool.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: So, my yeah, so they had to, so this is the crazy thing, you know, when you have a a call somewhere, it's not um, it doesn't fit into any concrete boxes, right?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: So we basically just called all the people that we had relationships with and said, Hey, we feel like we're called there, we don't know what that's gonna look like.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know of anything?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: And um, that ended up being a nine-month bureaucratic process to get us there.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's very difficult to live in London if you're not a uh a resident there.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so they had to prove that my husband was the only person in the entire EU to do what he is doing.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: So in what yeah, it's big.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: So what he is doing is he's working with one of the bishops in the um Church of England, tasked with church planting throughout the UK, and they have this audacious goal of planting a hundred churches throughout the UK by the year 2020.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: And they're already more than halfway there.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really yeah, it's really exciting.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: And in the in that time period also, we um have landed at this wonderful church called St.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: Barnabas Kensington, and my husband was hired to take that church through an interim process.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Their rector, our um vicar of many years was felt led to leave.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so H took um the whole congregation through this process, leadership process to help, you know, just discover who they are, where they're going, in preparation for receiving their new vicar, which is landed um from France this summer.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: So we're still there, still enjoying serving there.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's over 50 different countries represented in our church, which is amazing.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: That is amazing.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's incredible.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: And uh yeah, we just couldn't love being in London anymore.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: We just love it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: The minute I landed, I hate to say it, even though I was landing to visit my daughter, I was um already kind of homesick for London.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_06: That's wonderful.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_06: So you've been there, you said nine months so far.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: No, we uh no, we've been there two and a half years, actually.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_06: Oh two and a half years.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, I didn't realize that.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_06: Wow, that's awesome.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_06: Well, you allude to kind of more of your process um to the decision making of you know, going you know, across the pond, if you will, um, in your book, Rhythms of Rust.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_06: But some of those details are, you know, you don't necessarily put in there.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_06: So it's really fun to hear like this is the plan.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_06: This is the plan for you guys and where you want to stay.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_06: And I mean, just love it.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of the tricky things of writing your story, you know.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure it's like there's there's so much to tell you.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: Even when I speak, it's like there's so much I want to tell you, but we don't have that much time.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_06: Right, right.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_06: Well, and that's what you're doing in Dallas right now.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_06: You've been traveling and speaking.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_06: So give us, give me a little update what all you've been doing and how long you're here and what that looks like.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm really excited to be here.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm here because um a wonderful church in Boise, Idaho, a big vineyard church, invited me to come and do their annual women's retreat.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm super excited.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's next this upcoming weekend.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I knew I was gonna be in the US, you know, I always want to make the most of being over here.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's expensive and takes a long time to get here.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's tiring too.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is tiring.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I landed in Raleigh overnight with my daughter.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go back and see her in a cup in a couple weeks and spend a longer stay with her.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: But um, then went to Denver and had a wonderful day retreat with about 65 people at a wonderful ministry called Downing House.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then I was in here in Dallas um, arrived Saturday night, and spoke twice at All Saints Dallas wonderful, wonderful church here in Dallas.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: And um and then I'm gonna speak tomorrow at this neat uh event called Girl Talk.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: Saysomething.com is their um ministry, and they've just invited me along with two other authors to just kind of have a fun evening together at this wonderful venue.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the beginning.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: So crossing four time zones in four days.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: I don't necessarily recommend it, but God has been with me, sustaining me, so it's good.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, that's awesome, and I'm sure you this is like the true test to practice what you preach, which is finding rest and all of that, and you know, in a schedule that's not really your own, and all the like you know, so if you can do it, then we could as well.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: It absolutely is, and you know, I it's funny that you say that because I was I'm an extrovert, so I tend to fill want to fill every spare moment I have here with being with friends.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I had a friend that was supposed to arrive last night and um her father has cancer, and so he took a turn and she just felt like uh, you know, um realistic it wasn't realistic for her to drive to Dallas from Arkansas to be here for a few days, which we're heartbroken about.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: But I found myself in this, now I'm in this hotel by myself.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so this morning I just slept in and I stayed in my I went down and got breakfast, brought it back up, and I've just been in pajamas watching morning television and enjoying um lingering and prayer and Bible reading, and it's I feel like oh I can breathe again.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_06: So that's awesome.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_06: So a nice little respite in the middle of busyness.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you just have to take them, you know, whenever they present themselves.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: We tend to want to just fill every spare moment with doing something, don't we?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, just our knee-jerk reaction.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_06: Well, and this is why I think it's perfect to have you on for the holiday season.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_06: And because, you know, we do, we are the list is a mile long.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_06: We're trying to cram every sort of tradition and you know, memory-making event that we can with our kids, with our family, with our coworkers, you know, putting all together all the gifts and all of that.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_06: But if we if we continue to do that, then we can we take all the joy out of it and we're a hairy mess and we don't get to say for anything.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_06: So I felt like even though it seems absurd to be talking about rest in the holiday season.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, it's a challenge.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, it it is, but it's so necessary because and and that's the thought, the word that actually kept coming to mind, and whether this is for me personally or for my friends that are listening, I just I think of the idea of abiding.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_06: I I think I think that's the sense, I think that's the Lord's gift to us of abiding in this season.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_06: And that can mean so many things, we could talk about it forever.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_06: But I I'd love to just have you just, you know, share a little bit um, not only about, you know, we've heard a little bit of how you got to London and we're gonna talk about your book and all of that, but I would I really just um we actually were listening to Christmas music as we were getting ready because just getting us in spirit.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_06: But awesome.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, well, and we're kind of ready.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, yeah, I can be one of those that as soon as October 31st passes, I'm ready to turn on the Christmas music.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Me too, for sure.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can do without a lot of the October things and so just give me, give me the Christmas.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_06: October's my favorite month, but the whole creepy, scary stuff I don't miss.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_06: Now, what does that look like um there in London?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_06: Halloween, Thanksgiving, you know, happy Christmas, not Merry Christmas.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_06: Give us a little bit of, you know, from that perspective.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_06: I'm just curious.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: So the fall holiday season in um in England, first of all, it's beautiful because all the fall colors, you know, the trees are changing and it's beautiful.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: But the Halloween, like we're used to it in the US, is it's just not the same in England.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: You just don't see Halloween costumes and not that no one, you know, celebrates, but it's just not prevalent at all.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a little blip on the screen.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: I don't notice, you know, in the retail stores here in the US, it's everywhere.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: But you just don't see it.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: You just don't see it anytime.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_06: I'll I'll trade that anytime.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know me too.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: I always I never enjoyed Halloween.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um when my kids were little, they never really um were into it either.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah anyways, yeah, so I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: But um Thanksgiving is kind of weird, obviously, because uh in the US we have that those four days off and everybody is still working in London, and so we always have a turkey dinner and everything, but it just feels kind of doesn't feel as festive or as you know, restful or whatever.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: But they do have this wonderful um expat service at St.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: Paul's Cathedral on Thanksgiving for all the Americans that live in London.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that that's really meaningful.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: I love that, and um and then Christmas is different too in London because we live in Kensington and Kensington is a really affluent area, and so a lot of people have leave London at Christmas and it becomes sort of this vacant, um, you know, quiet city, and people are in the in the countryside.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: So normally, you know, in the US we would really look forward to a nice festive Christmas Eve service with candles and you know, all your friends and family you dress up and exchange gifts.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: And in London, it's all brand new people that are just visiting London and just need a place to go to church.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's very strange.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's very strange to walk into church and not really even recognize most of the people that are there.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a really small group of people that are there.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: So the all that energy is you know that you have from uh the crowds and and people that know each other, it's just not there at Christmas.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: So this year we're actually going back to Phoenix at uh for Christmas.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: So we're really excited to be able to do it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're excited, excited to be in the sunshine with our family.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, it'll be the first time that my husband is back in the US.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't that crazy?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so almost three years he's been um he hasn't been in.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_06: He's dependent on you to bring back some of those American goodies.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_06: That exactly.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: The longer you live there, the less um I bet the less you have, you know, your list.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: At first you miss everything, right?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then you just sort of adjust.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_06: I've only spent the most time I've spent um out of country was six weeks.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_06: But even in that time frame, there was a lot that I came back and never and you know, included back in some things that were really good for me to not in fast food, soda drinks, you know, just certain things.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_06: It's really interesting that even in six weeks you could lose your taste for certain things and adjust that quickly.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_06: That it's been 20 years, I've never added it back in.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, just six weeks that making that much of an impact.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: But even for me, I don't drink um ice anymore in my drinks.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: I just don't even think about it.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't, um, I never I hardly ever drink soda anymore.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: I eat a lot of more, a lot more fresh food.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: I just don't even uh fast food just isn't even I just don't care about it anymore.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's interesting what you what you yeah, how you your palate changes, your perspective changes.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um we live in a really small flat and we used to live in this big open floor plan house with a two-car garage and we don't even have a car.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: We just take public transportation everywhere, so it's a completely different way of life, but we really, we really love it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: We're sort of focused on, you know, when we have time off, we're not thinking about stuff we need to get done or remodel or go out and buy.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: We're just enjoying, sort of like, oh, we have a day off, let's just, you know, walk somewhere new and sit in a cafe and drink coffee and that's all through a park.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds amazing.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I was reading one of your posts this morning on your blog, and it was the one um it was like, let me tell you a story, and you were it was that one, and you were talking about how you put on your your shoes and you went out the door and you walked here, and then you crossed some railroad tracks, and then it was here and there, and I was like, wait, she's walking everywhere.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: You were going to Notting Hill, which caught my attention because of the movie Notting Hill.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Oh, I've seen that, but no, it just sounds it sounds amazing just to get out the door and walk.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of getting your car and miss the whole thing.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you would miss the whole thing if you were in your car driving.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I do.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Every once in a while, though, I'll buy too much at the market and have to carry it back and have some fun.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, that wouldn't be so fun.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: That would be a problem.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Does that mean more frequent trips to the market then?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the you just go more often?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we do a lot of or most people order their groceries and have them delivered.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, which is fabulous.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: But then sometimes I'm not very organized and I'll miss that.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think, oh no, I've got to go make a trek to the store, which is five, you know, five minute walk.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: But we have these little carts um that we take with us and just fill it up.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I can kind of assess now in the grocery cart how much will fill in my cart that I have to take home, and and how many bags I'm gonna have to carry if I've you know put too much in there.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's good.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's good.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: We it's good to walk everywhere.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: When I came back last October, it was so funny.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: I was with a group of friends and we went out to lunch, and um, we were in one of the typical strip centers eating at a at a restaurant, and then somebody mentioned going to Marshall's or somewhere like that.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: It was like, oh yeah, let's do that, you know, girls wanting to get together to shop.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: We all get in the car, strap ourselves in, and drive across the parking lot.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I am dying.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm guilty of that.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: But like, why would I why would I walk in there and walk back when I can drive?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_06: That's I totally get it though.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_06: When I again I did several trips, you know, that were like four to six weeks, and they were all places everywhere else in the world.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_06: You could walk everywhere.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_06: And I tried, I tried replicating that lifestyle back home, and it just doesn't work.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_06: No, it doesn't work.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we don't have the little neighborhood things, yeah, yeah, where you can all just walk.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_06: Now, we do have some good friends who live in New York, and um they do have I could see that in the city, especially, um, which is as close as I I because I did experience London at one point.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_06: And so I feel like there's some similarity how it's built, and you have those little, you know, flats, and you could walk and get your groceries, and there's something ideal to that.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_06: But I know as we were even walking the streets and talking with my girlfriends who live there and you know, who are visiting, and we have younger kids, and I've said, you know, is that just an idealized life?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_06: Could we really, you know, live that out with having little ones?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_06: Or, you know, mine are more middle age of spectrum, you know, able to walk a long ways, but maybe not help carry all the groceries and things like that.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_06: Do you think that the way that you've embraced London looks different and easier because of the age of your kids, or kind of, you know, just your approach to simplicity, people could say, oh, well, that's because your kids are that age, or you're at this stage of life.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_06: But and I don't think that's the case, but speak to that a little bit just based on your experience.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, it's a reality that um, you know, that song that says the lines have fallen for me in pleasant places.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes the lines of our lives are really narrow and we don't have a lot of time, but we still do we still believe that they're pleasant.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: And and so um there are I would say yes, I am definitely in a more freer stage of life where my kids are independent and I don't have to think about every detail of their life.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not, you know, my life isn't determined by their um schedule like it is when you're a young mom.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I do think, you know, I have a lot of young moms in the Sabbath society and who really want to make rest a rhythm of life, and you know, they're and they've done it as a family together.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it looks different for every single family because we all rest really uniquely.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: Some of us enjoy play.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's really restorative for us to be active, to you know, take a canoe ride or paddle board or take a run or to play, you know, frisbee with our kids.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: That might be really restorative.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: For some of us, that's like you just want to kind of sit somewhere and stare out the window or read a book.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and that's harder when you have kids.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: But um I have a couple gals in the Sabbath Society in particular that I'm thinking about where they have really incorporated this beautiful rhythm of um signifying Sabbath at a certain time every week, uh, by things like I have one friend that sets out a carton of paper plates and napkins and and um things, and that that sort of like Sabbath is now going to begin.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to be doing dishes.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to eat leftovers.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: And they're and our kids really look forward to it.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: They are real like really excited about it.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you know why?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because she's really present with the kids.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: She does fun.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: She's really creative.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so she does, they do crafting together.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they do things that are slower or fun and and more present.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then I have another friend whose kids already have really great um room time during the week where they're quiet and they read and they have their own sort of space.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's just been a natural rhythm of life.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: She homeschools, so that's you know an integral part of her rhythm of life.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so Sabbath isn't this big, huge shift.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's already a rhythm.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: And but they just stretch the hours, you know, that they each sort of because we all rest in a different way.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so we have to allow our kids to rest in the way that restores them as well.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's so um, yeah, I I will say in London, I often watch young moms with kids on um the tube and the train, and I just think about how uh physically taxing it is to be walking up steps, you know, carrying um a stroller and all their stuff, you know, and getting, but uh there is this beautiful thing that happens that uh strangers are always helping moms carry things.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's correct.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Carry this helping carry the stroller up or down the steps and things.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it is um, yeah, I think it's more challenging to live in an urban area with kids in that way.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: But there's also there's also some beautiful um positives about it as well.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_06: And I would imagine you would adjust your lifestyle accordingly.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_06: You would know that you can't fight, you know, fit five different places stops, you know, within an evening after school or in the day, and you have to, you know, just do less in order to be able to accommodate it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: I one thing I've noticed in the difference in cultures is um US, the kids are very focused on sports.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: And um they just really aren't in the UK.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, my my husband, it's not that they don't love sports, they do, but the kids don't grow up with that being an integral part of their um years as in adolescents and childhood.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: So for instance, um my son goes to a really big urban school in Chelsea, and um he knows very few kids that are athletes.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's they they don't even have like team sports at the school.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: Just if kids are athletes, they kind of that's something they do um as an add-on to their academic life.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_06: Private leagues, not within the actual school system and everything.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_06: Fascinating.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_06: That's so interesting.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's totally different.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I like that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we I've had a lot of conversations with friends because we're in a, I think we're in a place in the Midwest where it's really big and really important, and a lot of our friends' kids are in every single sport and they have multiple children and it requires a lot.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_06: And my husband and I have often talked about are we making a mistake by not encouraging that with our kids?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_06: But we yeah, our lifestyle, it it doesn't really work and where our priorities lie, and we want to give them the opportunity to try different things, and we're so we're not opposed to that.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_06: But um, and I think too, because I even lived in a couple different parts of the country, and I I just think it's kind of unique to where we live in different spots.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_06: There's that those pockets of of um, you know, just American culture, whether it's a money thing or just you know, that's their priority, you know, football's really big in Texas and everyone, you know, is gonna grow up playing football or whatever.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_06: But um it's just hard, it's hard because it's really demanding, especially on the moms, to, you know, or the stay-at-home dad, um, to to juggle all of that, not to mention the kids.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_06: I think um, with like our homework load for the kids, if they were in all those sports, I just don't know how they would do it.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_06: Personally, I think we would crumble as a family unit.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: They would be doing everything.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: For sure, for sure.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: But um, you know what?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing I've noticed too is mom's parents aren't as involved in their children's um schools.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when my kids were growing up, I volunteered and helped in the classroom a lot.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: I helped uh the editor of their yearbook.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: I was just always at everything.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you just don't have that at all.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't seen it in London where moms are going and helping out in the classroom or whatever.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: There's more of a disconnect there that I actually think um kids mature a little bit faster.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: They're given a lot more responsibility earlier.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, sort of expected to do things that we don't expect our kids to do until they're a lot older.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a little bit of delayed um maturity there because of I think hate to say it, because parents are a little bit too involved.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I can totally see that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Even I have a couple of kids that just can't remember to turn in, like I have one doing badly just because she didn't remember to turn in the work she did, and and I'm just trying to stay out.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the course the teacher is like, hello, can you help her?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Well, maybe she should feel the consequence, but but I don't know, it's a hard balance, but I can I can see that.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, by the time you're you know fifth grader, you should be able to remember to do things.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm sure I'm sure it does slow down some maturity.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is, and yeah, it's been it's been nice as a parent to not have to do that anymore.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: I bet I just I'm totally hands off.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like he knows he's got to bear the consequences if he doesn't get his homework in or whatever, and it's um and guess what?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: He rises to the occasion because he knows it's it's amazing out.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: They will rise to our expectations, yeah, eventually.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_06: And that takes you as the mom to step out of the equation and be okay with failure and know that it's not a reflection of you.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_06: And I think once we can separate, you know, because we're tied to the achievement of our kids because we take it so personally that we insert ourselves in all sorts of different ways that we don't need to.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_06: Again and again.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I you mentioned real briefly, because I want my friends to know about your newsletter that you sent out, the Sabbath Society.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_06: I love it.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_06: So tell me a little bit how you why you started it, how you started it, how long that's been going, and what that looks like.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_06: Because I want them, as soon as they're done listening to this, to find the link in the show notes and go sign up.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_06: They read it.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: I about um let's see, it was 2013.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: I was um, well, I really found Sabbath because I was tired, but not in the way you would think.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: I was tired of being lonely.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: We had been living in a um coastal community, beautiful resort community, and my kids were doing really well academically and um making friends, you know, in youth group, all this stuff.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: And we were sh having a lot of um fruit in our work and our ministry and our marriage and our parenting, but no one would have known I was just walking around with this deep ache, this loneliness.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was trying to fit into a culture that was not me at all.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: And um, Jesus really used Sabbath to teach me that I already belong.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: And the difference is, you know, when you try to fit into something, you're changing the way you are to it be accepted.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: But belonging is being accepted for who you are.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: And it was beautiful.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was really Sabbath that um sort of allowed me the freedom to rest in who I am.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: And um and I found it on a simple prayer walk, you know, one night.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um I was just kind of having it out with the Lord.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: It was after Christmas, you know, I'd been with family, pushed off, you know, the inbox, you know, keeping the house clean, as we do around a holiday.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you just want to be present with people and be in your yoga pants, you don't worry as much about, you know, what you're eating up on or not.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I was cleaning up and all the company had gone home and we were getting ready to go back to the regular Monday and Monday, and I was just dreading it, but not so much dreading the actual routine as I was dreading being um having that loneliness creep back in.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just abandoned cleaning up one evening and took a walk at dusk around my neighborhood, and I just said to the Lord, you know, I really feel like you've called us to feel this um deep sense of belonging and being known like we do on a holiday, more than just a couple days or a couple weeks on a calendar when we have a holiday or we go away on a vacation on a beach somewhere.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like you have called us to feel that way all the time when we know you.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt like I heard Sabbath come back to me.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I knew it was the Lord because there was nothing on my radar about Sabbath.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: I hadn't just read a book or you know, had a conversation, read a um or heard a sermon about Sabbath.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: It was just came out of the blue.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: And as I began to sort of um process what Sabbath is and investigate it, I felt like um I just got the idea to invite my blog readers to join me in sort of this adventure or discovery into what Sabbath really means.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I did that, about 40 people signed up initially, and what the Sabbath Society, and I called it the Sabbath Society, and basically what it is, and it's still the same as it was when it began, is it's a weekly letter that I write.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a personal letter to a friend, basically saying, This is how my Sabbath went this week, this is what I struggle with, this is where I've found some revelation, here are some resources that have helped me.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Now let me know, you know, how is your Sabbath going?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: How is how are you finding a rhythm of rest?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then those responses that came back over the course of about three years really were the jumping off point for writing rhythms of rest because a lot of the Sabbath Society members' stories are in the book as well.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that's really what the Sabbath Society is.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's just simply an email from me every week that you know, to people that say now we're almost 3,000 people that say, um, yeah, it's great.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, all of us say, I know I I know I'm tired, I know I need to rest, I just don't know how to do it.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: How do you do it?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is just a little help in persevering, and because even no matter how long we've been practicing Sabbath, we all get out of sync because interruption, you know, interruptions to life are inevitable.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: We um as the seasons shift, so do the seasons of our lives, and so we have to sort of re-evaluate, and that's the glory of rhythms, you know.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: We can adapt, we can integrate, we can kind of go with the flow as our life shifts versus a routine that's really concrete and correct or correct.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: So a rhythm really allows for our lives to flow in a and adapt in a beautiful way.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: If we approach Sabbath as a routine, we end up feeling like a failure.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because there's always going to be something that interrupts our good intentions.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: So that's really it in a nutshell.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's beautiful.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_06: And I I didn't realize that the belonging aspect was so behind.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_06: Because you're I mean, you're approached through the whole thing.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_06: If someone listening has grown up in the church, they've heard the Sabbath, but often in a context of legalism and um and just this notion, you know, kind of either just kind of this idea and it's Sunday and restaurants should be closed, and and not to say that they shouldn't, but you know, and we shouldn't do anything.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_06: But I I feel like you come at it from just such a a mindset, an invitation.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's about how you approach just life in general of going, how can I, you know, do this in a in a way that's simplified and not overcomplicated in my humanness, from my human perspective that we kind of you know just insert our way of thinking instead of it's it's going, okay, how would the Lord want me to approach this, you know, either complication, trip, or season of life in a way that brings about life.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: I always say Sabbath is a gift from God's generous heart to us, his children.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's um it's his way to parent us.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, in the very beginning, when God created in Genesis 2, it says that um, you know, he created a day of rest as holy.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: And he created it after he had finished the work that he had been doing and creating the world.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I think often when we think about holy, we get it wrong.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: We think it means perfectionism or following a set of rules.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: And holy simply means two words set apart.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: Set apart.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: So when we think about Sabbath, we think how can we set time apart that looks different than the rest of the time in our week, that is about making eye contact with God and abiding with Him in a way that's really intentional, in the same way we would do, like with a dinner date, you know, with our husband or with a child or with a girl group of girlfriends.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: We think ahead, you know, we get excited about being with them and we're thinking, we're planning ahead about how we can make that time special.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, you can do simple things in your home, like light candles to begin.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this time is being sort of set apart and different.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: You can, you know, um use china that you don't normally use, or paper plates if you use china all the time, or a you know, a special drink.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like I have this tea that I love from Canada that I kind of import from relatives, and I just savor it on Sabbath.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually like really get excited.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I I start at sundown on um Saturday through sundown on Sunday.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's my time to Sabbath, but everybody's is different.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: And um I plop that tea bag, you know, on Sunday morning before church, and it's like, yay, I get to have my tea, you know, it's just those little things to make time um different.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so I think a lot of times Sabbath has been about guilt, and it's you know, we feel guilty when we're not doing anything or being productive.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: It sometimes makes us feel like if we're not producing, then we're invaluable.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: And God needs, you know, and the fourth commandment it says remember the Sabbath to keep the day holy.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's because we're so prone to forget who we are in our busyness.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you know, we need that continual reminder of taking our hands off of creation to remember that God is the one um that gives us the work to do, He's the one that makes everything spin.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, that's precious time.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah, I love it.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_06: Well, real quick, you mentioned that you had a blog and then you started the Sabbath Society newsletter.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_06: So did you have a blog for your musings previously?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_06: Or I know you're photographer as well.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_06: So tell us a little bit.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so a lot of times, you know, a image sparks a story for me, or vice versa, or I'll write something and then an image, but it's usually the other way around, an image really sparks a story.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, in the early days, so I started writing as a feature writer for the church planning movement that um my husband was uh leading called the Anglican Mission in America, and um we were all over North America, we planted over 300 churches.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I was the feature writer for about five years just writing about the amazing things that people were doing all over the country to further the gospel, and um really loved doing that and love connecting people, love networking and connecting people, and then I just decided I wanted to start writing from passion.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I started a blog and just wrote stories that were just about my everyday life, things I was pondering, thinking about, and um gosh, I look back at some of those early stories and think, oh, those sweet people that followed me back then.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: My writing, we all do that, you know.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: Look back at your writing and go, oh gosh, that was sad.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: Delete, delete, delete.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then this the idea for the Sabbath Society emerged.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so that's really been sweet.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_06: So you just practiced your gift, and then the Lord took it, you know, the direction that he wanted.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_06: So that's that's beautiful.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly what happened, and it has been the most wonderful, glorious journey because I've met so many people all over the world that have become dear friends.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like the the gal that was supposed to come and arrive arrived to be here in Dallas with me from Arkansas.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: We've only been in person twice, I think.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: But we should I consider her one of my very best friends because she prayed me through that whole time in London and writing my books.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: And um anyway, yeah, it's just uh a great gift to be part of the Christian writing community.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm honored to be part of it.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_06: I love it.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I can it's it's kind of fun because when you start investigating the life of Christian authors, some of them, all the little connections that you start hearing about and seeing, whether it's through social media or hearing in their podcast, and like, oh, oh, they know this person and they like that they go way back or they live in the same neighborhood, or yeah, that's or they all kind of got started together by you know, just community and network and you know.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're all helping each other, which is so amazing.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, none of us probably would even be authors without the help of I wouldn't be an author without without the help of other authors who introduced me to agents who you know taught me how to write a book proposal and you know introduce me to people that help promote my book.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: So it takes a big community of people to get a message out.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love the lack of competition there.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: That just the desire to see somebody else succeed that I think is missing a lot of times, especially among well, not if I'd say especially among women, but often among men, there's the competition instead of just applauding each other and and helping.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I really like that.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_06: And so if you if you really embody your message of belonging that you went in a journey on, then celebrating each other's successes is fine because you're not striving for a position.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly, and it's just a great way to live, you know.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's like we value um each other greatly because we each bring a unique voice to the world, and so there is no competition.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: We're just trying to follow Jesus and declare the message that he wants to write through us.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so we, you know, you can't be you can't compare because if you compare, then you're sort of diminishing the gift that God gave you.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds good.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, that's beautiful.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, so I have a feeling that a lot of those listening, because we're, you know, smack in the middle of the hustle of Christmas and the holiday season, I know they need to put your book on their book list for maybe after the new year or maybe their Christmas trip, but would you speak into just how we could practically approach the Sabbath mindset, the abiding mindset through the Christmas holiday?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_06: And because for me personally, we have several birthdays, we do a ton of travel, we cover hundreds of miles, we have several different Christmas celebrations, and on top of all the like, you know, school stuff and work, you know, celebrations, and you know, you're trying to give gifts to friends, you know, someone like me who needs help with this practice of abiding.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_06: And I have I feel like I have a little bit of edge because I've read the book and I've been following you, and I've really it it has changed my mindset for sure and how I've approached things, and I'm so so grateful.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_06: But to all my friends who this is just a new concept to them, I think it'd be easy to be like, well, I'll I'll think about that in the new year, but I think we can think about it now and we can change how we approach this season so we can really abide with him.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: How do we not miss Jesus in the season in which Jesus came to abide with us?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right, so exactly.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's crazy.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think sometimes we care more about doing things right and managing life than enjoying God and glorifying Him.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so I often, I guess, you know, as we are smack dab in the middle of all the swirl of activity and things that have to be done, for me, I often um just evaluate all my great intentions and think, how imperative are these?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: And is this something that is going to honor God, or is it something that I'm just am I trying to control joy?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Am I trying to control how um how joy looks in the midst of a season that is to be focused on the you know cultivating the presence of God?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, there's been times when I think.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think I'll forego Christmas cards because for me I um and that hasn't always been the case, but like for instance getting the perfectly cropped picture of my family for Christmas.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is this something I'm doing for me?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I want to present some kind of um image, or is this gonna actually um glorify God?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, is um or is a handwritten message and just a simple old-fashioned Christmas card gonna bless somebody more than a picture of me?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: I have to say that Christmas cards are really more have become more about self than about God.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's like look at me, look at my cute family.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: She just look at all this look at all the things that we've accomplished.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: I feel so much better now about the fact that I've never ever sent our Christmas cards, though I kind of feel like I should never have gotten around to it.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: So now I feel better.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: That and you know what you said the magic word.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad you said it.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I often so you need to ask yourself, is this a should?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: Or is this or is this you know um desire?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have this deep desire to want to just do whatever this thing is, whether it's you know, give a gift or throw a party, or I think we just have to step back and really assess um what our uh motives are about why we're doing what we're doing.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: How much would we better out if we did that?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I know.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, that's really good.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_06: Just the yeah, the motivation of of all of it that we do is usually for a that social media picture or that like to look a certain way to our friends or say that we did that.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: People, your life can get a lot easier on this one bit if you don't take anything else away.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, yes.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_06: And I okay, so speak to a little bit because even I think a regular practice of Sabbath means saying no and the potential of letting others down.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_06: Speak to that a little bit when we're looking at uh not worrying as much of letting others down as honoring uh you know the Lord and our reasoning and our motives behind it.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: I often think that um our practice of Sabbath could be revolutionary to evangelism.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: Can you imagine if during the holiday season, you know, everybody's frantic running around, and you run into a friend and they say, Hey, how are you doing?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: And you say, I'm rested.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, game changer.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: You wouldn't even know what to say to that.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm rested.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but can you imagine the stunned faces?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: But then they'd be like, Well, how are you rested?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: What does that even mean?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm rested.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: I feel great.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: I feel rejuvenated, I feel restored.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: Can you imagine?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: Instead of saying, Oh, I'm so busy, I've got this, and you know, yeah.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then you we start naming all the things that we are doing.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: But if we said, I'm doing really great, the holiday season has been really meaningful.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: I just decided to push some stuff out of my life, and I'm really having this really rich time with the Lord every day, you know, meditating on, you know, it doesn't need to be this big orchestration.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I started, um, I actually every year um have been reading Ann Boskamp's book, The Greatest Gift.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_03: But this this year for the first time, I actually um went through some of the questions that she has and actually answered them.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: Good for you.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it ended up being a really meaningful quiet time that really f made my whole the whole season really rich with um meaning and purpose and getting my mind centered on the person of Christ.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_06: I think that's good.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_06: And I I also in a way to also answer my own question, I think not only would it be great evangelism, but sometimes if sometimes the expectations we place that we think others are placing on us are false.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_06: And oftentimes, and I'm just speaking from a recent conversation I had with a family member about, you know, hey, we're we're looking at our Christmas travel schedule and our plans and realizing that they felt just as much pressure, if not more, uh, to fulfill expectations for us, that if by saying no and putting up some maybe boundaries and just saying, you know, in order for our souls to rest, we might not do this.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_06: And for them, it actually was like, Oh, good.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: You're taking the pressure off.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: I know, I know.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes we just have to um be brave and courageous, sort of like standing up for our faith, you know, some it's always uncomfortable to go against the flow of culture, isn't it?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I think God has called us to be unpopular and and Sarah Hager Day's wonderful book, Unseen, you know, to that the unseen parts of our lives, the the times that we really abide with him in a meaningful way, are the things that actually matter the most, but we get it um switched around, don't we?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's all the external things that we're spending all this time doing, and we're putting the unseen, you know, the sweet times with the Lord sort of on the back burner to get all that other stuff done.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: We just sort of have it backwards.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that that is the the Christ's life and following Him always feels like you're swimming a bit upstream, you're going against the grain, you're doing things that feel uncomfortable to you, but also cause a little bit of uncomfortability in your the people that you love as well.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: But I just think um it also makes people very curious when you're confident in who you are in Christ and the way he's leading you to celebrate the season is between you and him and your family and how that's gonna look.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you know, people will really honor your decision about that.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's important to communicate it, and I think a lot of people it sets them free to do the same.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_06: That's awesome.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_06: I love it.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_06: So besides Anne Boss Camp's um Christmas, um the like the devotees I assume it's or it was more like a book study on some other It's for admin.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: Her book is for admin, yes.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we have the we have the kid version or the family version that we've read through for our several years, and I love that.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_06: And some of it is a little bit I have to abbreviate a little bit for my younger ones, but it's so beautiful that I've enjoyed personally reading through it.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_06: But um, what are just some other things that you've incorporated maybe the last few years in particular around the Christmas season to just enrich your Sabbath um during a busy time?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I guess probably I you know, once you establish a rhythm, it's just sort of part of your life.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so I always just really protect that time no matter what's going on.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: So um I just have been able to maintain that through the holiday season.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: I guess some of it is, you know, being selective about the time period that you're choosing so that you don't have um, you know, more of an ability for interruptions.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: For instance, if I did decide to Sabbath on Friday night, right, that might be a real difficulty for me because a lot of parties are on Fridays and Saturdays.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: Now, parties on Sabbath are great for some people.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's really restorative and rejuvenating, but for other people, especially deep introverts, that would just be depleting.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: So um I do things probably like I allow myself to eat more carbs on Sabbath than I would be other times.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, during the holidays, it sort of like helps me to be a little bit more um, well, I guess good about what I'm putting in my mouth because there's always so much more around.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think, well, if I can give myself the luxury of enjoying that as a Sabbath celebration, then it becomes really fun, you know, to just kind of favor and or save things for that.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: You just saved everyone five pounds, Shelley.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_06: I like this.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_06: It's so wise though.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_06: I love it.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: So that's I guess that's a few things.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't shop, you know, when I'm on Sabbath at all.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_06: Um because for you that's incredibly draining.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_06: Gosh, it would be so draining.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: But every once in a while, and every once in a while, if I um I just haven't shopped as much in London.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't that funny?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: I live in this fashion capital and I don't shop as much.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: But um I just find it incredibly intimidating.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: But every once in a while I get rejuvenated by going shopping on the Sabbath and it doesn't feel tiring.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: But it just has to be sort of led by God, you know?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um there are times I try to get as much done as possible uh to really protect that time, I guess, is is the biggest thing.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm always thinking ahead.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thinking, you know, days ahead.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: What do I need to do today so that I can protect that white space to just abide in a really meaningful way?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_06: I love it.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_06: I'm already looking forward to December even more.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_06: It's gonna be good.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I really I'm I'm really gonna have to fight for it.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_06: But I think even just in the mindset that I've approached things lately, even a last minute out-of-town trip and just different ways that I I was kind of like, I need to, I just need to approach it differently than I would.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_06: And I I think it helped, you know, find rest in it instead of it being quite so exhausting and and everything that it could have been.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_06: Um just just because I approached it more of like, okay, what is one, what does the Lord have for me in this?
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_06: And two, what are the little pockets of time?
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe I don't get the 24-hour stretch, but just like the homeschool mom that you shared, you know, she uses the afternoon rest time, you know, um, that quiet space with her kids to find kind of a daily, you know, rest rhythm.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_06: You know, how can you use the pockets of time if you can't get the full stretch?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_06: Which you you talk about that in your book as well, about how it looks different for everyone and how you may not be able to fit it from Saturday night to Sunday night.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_06: Um, right.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_06: But it's it's about the you know, figuring out, you know, when you can steal away for yourself.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_03: I always say, you know, we're so focused on how to do everything, and really Sabbath is Jesus is Sabbath, so it's about who, not how.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_03: So um he he's I I really believe he's less concerned about what day and time period we choose than he is about just he just wants to be with us.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's just the bottom line.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: He just wants us to be with him in a really intentional way.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so if that's 15 minutes or five minutes on a lunch break, or it's half a day, or it's a full day, whatever works for everybody, it's just more about how can I be um yeah, making eye contact with God in a really meaningful way.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_06: I love it.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_06: Me too.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_06: Shelly, this has been such a gift.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_06: We really appreciate your time.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_06: And I I love um that we can follow you and just watch your adventures on all things social.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_06: But tell us kind of how people can find you if they're you know driving or whatever, maybe a website would stick out in their mind or you know, the Instagram, and they can also click in our show notes and find out more um ways to find you.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just really my name, Shelly Miller, Shelly without the E at the end.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_03: So S-H-E-L-L-Y Miller and then writer, Shelly Miller Writer, and that's on um Facebook and on um Instagram and also on Twitter.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's W-R, because I couldn't get that whole long word on Twitter, right?
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_03: But um, and the same thing for my website, so it's ShellymillerWriter.com.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_06: And we can find your book on Amazon.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_06: I know it's there's a Kindle version and the paperback, which I settled for the Kindle version, and I admit I I'm not a uh I struggle with Kindle a little bit.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_06: Um it's a really great idea, but I your book would have been ideal for a lot of highlighting and underlining and all that sort of stuff.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_03: I spoke at a at a beautiful manor in the country English countryside the other day, and a woman came with her book, and that thing was like the velveteen rabbit.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: And had so many c it had so many coffee stains and dog eared um pages.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: I was just honored.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to take, I should have taken a picture of it.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I know I still love I it was really fun to get the Kindle version of your own book and see who highlighted how many people highlighted and what they highlighted.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_03: It was really um fun.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm with you.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_03: I love having the the book in my hand still is my favorite.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, absolutely.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_06: It's a ton of fun.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I hope that all my friends will maybe add the book to their Christmas wish list or their what to buy with their Amazon gift card.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_06: That would be great.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, and absolutely follow you.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_06: Um, because I I just I'm always looking for more positive stuff to fill my feed.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_06: But anytime I come across your postings, it caused me to pause and go, oh yeah, let's take a deep breath, let's enjoy this moment.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_06: I insert myself into your world and like, oh, I'm gonna pretend that I'm in London right now or whatever adventure you're on.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_06: So I love it.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, thank you, Shelly.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_06: We really appreciate you.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_06: Thanks for having me.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my goodness, that was so good.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was so good, and it brought me some clarity to something that I've been thinking about, which is interesting um for the last week or two, and probably longer.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the Lord's been speaking some things to me personally and um some really in some deep places.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I'm just been sitting here going, okay, what do I do?
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: What do I do with that?
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: How do I respond and what do I do?
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I keep saying, what do I do?
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't do anything.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's really about being, I think, in a posture of receiving.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and so what she said, and especially the piece about belonging, about taking Sabbath as a time to set aside to know God and really to begin to understand that that's where we belong.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, paired with, you know, for me, I think that the thing I had come to on my own was that maybe I needed to incorporate some fasting, but not fasting from just a discipline perspective, but not fasting to get something to create, you know, change my circumstances or tell me an answer to this or fix this thing, but fasting um to know him, to stop moving and to be still and then to know him in that.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so this fits perfectly with what she said about Sabbath and just taking time to just be still um and to rest.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that looks like different things.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so resting for me might be that I'm in a coffee shop or walking in nature or whatever.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about what you're doing, it's just about where your mind is, I think.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, fasting productivity and then also I when you do fast from food, it causes you to move a little slower and you do less.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and then you're worried about working out and then you know, like trying to cram that in, and then you gotta do this and then that, and the snowball effect is not fasting has.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought it was really good.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I haven't read the book yet.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've been on her blog and and her Instagram, but I haven't read the book, and so I need to read it because the perspective is so different than the uh legalistic, you know, I think that was the word you used, legalistic perspective of you're not allowed to do anything, you know, don't move, don't be it's just all about what you're the don'ts instead of what you get to do with that space and time.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_06: Though I her point about belonging, that was new.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_06: I don't know that she or I didn't catch that in the book.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, there's a lot of things I learned from the book, but um man, when we when we see it, not just as a like a great invitation, everything like that, but to just show us even maybe who we are.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_06: And that he loves us just like this.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I I know, I know it's it's just kind of like stating the same thing we've heard in a different way.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_06: But that's the beauty of it, is like the Lord just really wants to get it across to us.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_06: Because he's like, listen, I'm gonna tell you this way, this way, this way to get the same point across that I just love you for being who you are.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_06: And being with me.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes us repetition sometimes to hear it.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: You have to hear it loudly or quietly, but in a lot of different ways.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you go, Oh, maybe that's what you're saying.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: And again after all.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_06: And maybe you just we're only so mature enough that we can handle, or we're so deep in it, we can only handle little pieces at a time.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_06: Nuggets.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_06: And no, so good.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_06: It was really good.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_06: It was excellent.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_06: I'm definitely gonna um put the link to not just her book, but a couple of other ones that we talked about in the podcast.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_06: And I know Anne Voskamp's book was for sure on my mind when I was like, oh, what do what great books have I loved um, you know, reading during the Christmas season that kind of put me in um that right mindset.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_06: And then for the life of me, I'm blinking on her adult book.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_06: That sounds kind of bad.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the I think that's the one she was talking about, unwrapping the greatest gift.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think the greatest gift is the kids' one or the family, yes, and then unwrapping the greatest gift.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's more of a devotional type read for growing up.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and I I want to say that I got it from the library and then realized quickly, oh, I need to buy this one.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_06: And so um I don't know that I I got into it as deep as I would like to.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_06: So but that one I wanted to um put in there.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_06: And then this is maybe gonna seem funny, but I really loved the Christmas books um from the Midford series, which is Jan Karen.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_06: Um, she has a couple of Christmas, and I just love those books because they cause me to rest.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_06: It's just just a simple, like it's how I imagine more European village mindset.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_06: Now it's more like nestled in the hills of North Carolina or something.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_06: But anyway, I think that one's a good one if you're looking for if you're a book person and that will help you kind of you know just enjoy the season and you're like, oh, it's a Christmas ebook, and all that sort of stuff.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_06: That one was really I'll keep that in mind.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't read those.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, it's good.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_06: So and of course, Christmas music.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, we're gonna be tons of Christmas music.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love Christmas music.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_06: I'm excited to um have John Thurlow on our podcast and share his he's um got a Christmas album that he shared or he um still has available and he wrote several years ago.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_06: Um so we'll talk talk about his new album, but we'll also talk about his Christmas album and just Christmas music in general.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_06: It's gonna be so good.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_06: I love these holiday podcasts.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_06: Love the holidays.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_06: Wasn't that such a great conversation?
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_06: I hope you find Rhythms of Rest as you abide in him this Christmas season.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_06: Be sure to follow Shelly Miller on Instagram and all things social.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_06: Her weekly newsletter for the Sabbath Society is delivered regularly on Fridays, and it is one to join and follow.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_06: I always learn so much from her.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_06: And her book, Rhythms of Rest, is a perfect gift idea, maybe to grab a few for your friends who could use some more rest in their lives, or for yourself to read as you enter into this season or into the new year, and you might want to put that on your Amazon wish list.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_06: We hope you're enjoying a fabulous Thanksgiving weekend, and we look forward to being back here next week with more simply wholehearted Christmas inspiration to enjoy.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_06: More unplugged, purposeful, and intentional moments.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_06: Until next time.