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EP245: David Savage - The Savage Path · The Sovereign Man Podcast

• 0:02
  David Savage: When you're in a group of men that affirms you that you can trust, being able to laugh,
• 0:07
  David Savage: being able to fellowship, express your emotions viscerally, sometimes you get mad, you know,
• 0:12
  David Savage: you can't be in control, proper, tolerant all the time. You need to be in a safe place where
• 0:18
  David Savage: it's like, I'm not going to be judged. I have a wealth of like long-term friendships. That's
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: how I consider myself wealthy. Very blessed. You're a man living in the modern world in a time
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: When men and manhood are not what they once were, you live life on your own terms.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: You're self-sufficient.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: You think for yourself and you march to the beat of your own drum.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: When life knocks you down, you get back up because in your gut, you know that's what men do.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: You're a badass and a warrior.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: And on the days when you forget, we are here to remind you who you really are.
• 0:56
  Nicky Billou: Welcome to Sovereign Man Podcast, where we aim to make men masculine again.
• 1:00
  Nicky Billou: I'm your man, Nicky Ballou, and we have a great guest for you today, David Savage.
• 1:05
  Nicky Billou: Welcome, David.
• 1:06
  David Savage: Well, thank you so much for having me on.
• 1:08
  David Savage: I really appreciate it.
• 1:09
  Nicky Billou: Good to have you here.
• 1:11
  Nicky Billou: David, you are very much involved in the work of men, of helping elevate men, manhood, masculinity,
• 1:17
  Nicky Billou: and you've got a hell of a personal story of how you got here.
• 1:20
  Nicky Billou: Why don't you start there?
• 1:22
  David Savage: Well, I was fortunate enough to grow up with an Air Force career master sergeant, you know, dad, who made me big on God and country.
• 1:33
  David Savage: I was born and raised in San Angelo, Texas.
• 1:36
  David Savage: We did live for four years in Darmstadt, Germany, while he spied in the Cold War on the Russians.
• 1:42
  David Savage: That was a Cold War spy?
• 1:44
  David Savage: He was.
• 1:45
  David Savage: He actually worked for NSA.
• 1:46
  David Savage: I never knew what he did.
• 1:47
  David Savage: Oh, damn, brother.
• 1:48
  Nicky Billou: No such agency, that NSA?
• 1:50
  Nicky Billou: No such agency?
• 1:51
  David Savage: Yes, yes, that's exactly right.
• 1:53
  David Savage: In fact, I always ask him, Dad, you know, what do you do?
• 1:55
  David Savage: And he goes, I told you I'd have to kill you.
• 1:57
  David Savage: So it was very mysterious until his funeral when I finally asked his buddies, can you talk about it yet?
• 2:04
  David Savage: And they gave me two books that it was declassified information that happened prior to 1980.
• 2:12
  David Savage: And one was called The Puzzle Palace.
• 2:14
  David Savage: And then the other one was called The Ultra Secret.
• 2:16
  David Savage: And so they did all the code cracking.
• 2:19
  Nicky Billou: The Puzzle Palace?
• 2:20
  David Savage: Yeah.
• 2:20
  David Savage: So that's what is kind of the nickname for the NSA headquarters there in Langley, I think.
• 2:25
  Nicky Billou: And so they're in Maryland, aren't they?
• 2:29
  David Savage: The NSA is not Langley.
• 2:30
  David Savage: Langley's the CIA.
• 2:31
  David Savage: Oh, yeah, that's right.
• 2:32
  David Savage: That's right.
• 2:32
  David Savage: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:33
  David Savage: You're right.
• 2:33
  David Savage: You're right.
• 2:33
  David Savage: It is Maryland.
• 2:35
  David Savage: So, you know, it was a long time ago.
• 2:36
  David Savage: But so I was looking at his military record and like, man, he's in his Air Force uniform,
• 2:41
  David Savage: but he's with all these other people with different uniforms.
• 2:43
  David Savage: And I've been trying to piece all this together.
• 2:45
  David Savage: But at any rate, so moved back to San Angelo.
• 2:50
  David Savage: And then he taught that school at the Security Wing Air Force Base, their Goodfellow Air Force Base.
• 2:56
  David Savage: And so I grew up in West Texas and I had a terrific scouting experience growing up, you know, became an Eagle Scout.
• 3:04
  David Savage: Wanted to beat my brother. My older brother had become one.
• 3:06
  David Savage: So I got mine before, you know, I was at 15 when I got mine.
• 3:10
  David Savage: Oh, a pretty dog, dude. That's pretty awesome, eh?
• 3:13
  David Savage: It is. Yeah.
• 3:14
  David Savage: I got a brother.
• 3:16
  David Savage: Oh, man.
• 3:16
  David Savage: He was, you know, fortunately, he had some pretty high bars.
• 3:19
  David Savage: And so I was very competitive.
• 3:21
  David Savage: I'm still very competitive.
• 3:23
  David Savage: I think it's because I'm the youngest of four children.
• 3:25
  David Savage: And he got, you know, most of the attention.
• 3:27
  David Savage: And I was, there's two sisters and then me.
• 3:30
  David Savage: So I was like, hey, hey, what about me?
• 3:33
  David Savage: So anyway, so I always aspired to beat him.
• 3:37
  David Savage: You know, he played the clarinet.
• 3:38
  David Savage: I got his clarinet.
• 3:39
  David Savage: You know, I wanted to be first chair and all that.
• 3:41
  David Savage: It really kind of set a real pattern and trajectory for aiming high in my life.
• 3:47
  David Savage: And so I got my Eagle Scout.
• 3:50
  David Savage: I got my gold, silver, bronze, palms.
• 3:53
  David Savage: And then I founded a co-ed Explorer post because I got interested in girls and I'd already kind of gotten all the ranks I could.
• 4:01
  David Savage: So I was at a backpacking and high adventure Explorer post.
• 4:04
  David Savage: And then I was fortunate enough to get academic scholarship to Texas A&M University, enrolled in nuclear engineering.
• 4:12
  David Savage: And in 1978 and in 1979, Three Mile Island kind of changed the outlook for civilian nuclear engineering work.
• 4:21
  David Savage: And I'm claustrophobic, so the Navy submarine wasn't going to work for me.
• 4:25
  David Savage: And so I changed majors, got a civil engineering degree, graduated in 82, got my professional engineer's license in 87.
• 4:34
  David Savage: And then I converted into chemical engineering, worked for Nalco Chemical Company for 31 years, was purchased by Ecolab in 2011, and then retired in 2018 as a global corporate accounts manager level position and decided to write a book.
• 4:54
  David Savage: So I wrote this book because I was upset about how the Boy Scouts of America had been torn down.
• 5:01
  David Savage: I mean, the BSA, you know, the scout oath is on my honor.
• 5:04
  David Savage: I'll do my duty to do my best, you know, to God and my country, to obey the scout law,
• 5:09
  David Savage: to help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.
• 5:15
  David Savage: Who could be against that?
• 5:16
  David Savage: Well, there were a lot of people.
• 5:19
  David Savage: That's exactly right.
• 5:20
  David Savage: And so they tore it down and it's not even a shadow of itself in my view.
• 5:26
  David Savage: And so now I support trail life.
• 5:28
  David Savage: But I decided to write a book kind of about my scouting experiences, but also just to help young men.
• 5:34
  David Savage: I went through a divorce.
• 5:36
  David Savage: You and I have talked about that and our experiences with that.
• 5:40
  David Savage: I remarried.
• 5:41
  David Savage: I picked up two stepsons in that process.
• 5:44
  David Savage: And their father was an alcoholic and died of cirrhosis in 2005, which was really quite sad.
• 5:51
  David Savage: And they were young and they went kind of spinning out of control.
• 5:54
  David Savage: So I have a soft spot in my heart for young men, especially ones who grew up without a father or a coach or a minister, somebody, you know, that poured that huxpa, you know, that gravitas into them so that they had some ballast in their boat and a little wave doesn't tip them over.
• 6:15
  David Savage: And unfortunately, there's a lot of young men out there who raised in single parent families, you know, alcoholic dads, workaholic dads, and they just didn't have anybody modeling good male, positive, masculine Christian manhood.
• 6:31
  David Savage: And so that's what I'm all about in my retired life.
• 6:35
  Nicky Billou: You know what, brother?
• 6:37
  Nicky Billou: All of that is super true.
• 6:41
  Nicky Billou: tell me, what do you think is the problem
• 6:46
  Nicky Billou: that has allowed this leftist rot to infect Western civilization?
• 6:51
  Nicky Billou: And how do we overcome it?
• 6:53
  Nicky Billou: Because if we don't overcome it,
• 6:55
  Nicky Billou: I think humanity is going to descend into at least a thousand years of darkness.
• 7:00
  David Savage: I fear a poor outcome, as you like that.
• 7:05
  David Savage: And I think how it manifested, I think it was the culture war, you know,
• 7:09
  David Savage: in the 60s and 70s.
• 7:10
  David Savage: And, you know, there were some legitimate reasons
• 7:14
  David Savage: where women were, you know,
• 7:16
  David Savage: not getting equal pay for equal work and things.
• 7:18
  David Savage: And, you know, so they had legitimate beefs.
• 7:22
  David Savage: But feminism just went too far, you know,
• 7:25
  David Savage: with, you know, in the 70s.
• 7:27
  Nicky Billou: You really think that was legitimate?
• 7:29
  Nicky Billou: Because I think it's a Soviet psyop.
• 7:31
  Nicky Billou: That's what I think.
• 7:33
  Nicky Billou: I'm being straight up with you.
• 7:34
  Nicky Billou: I think it was a Soviet psyop.
• 7:35
  Nicky Billou: I don't think there was a damn thing legitimate about it.
• 7:37
  David Savage: Well, I think that they do. And there's a lot of evidence of this, too, in Chinese and Iran,
• 7:43
  David Savage: because it is the rot from within. That's what has taken down every great civilization.
• 7:48
  David Savage: And so, you know, they know they can't. It has to be asymmetric warfare. And so if you can,
• 7:53
  David Savage: in fact, I just did a podcast, which was a monologue, which I don't do that often, about
• 7:59
  David Savage: the unintended consequences and the idolatry of AI, because, you know, now it's getting so hard to
• 8:06
  David Savage: discern the truth. I guess if there was just one sentence to answer your question, that would be it.
• 8:11
  David Savage: People no longer seek the truth and can discern the truth. And a lot of that has to do with your
• 8:17
  David Savage: faith. And this country, you know, says in God, we trust on every piece of currency that we have,
• 8:23
  David Savage: but we're not really doing that anymore. And so it's all been this teardown. You know, first we
• 8:28
  David Savage: lost the higher education system, and then we lost the primary and secondary education system. And so
• 8:34
  David Savage: that's how you get the next generation. And so now we've got a bunch of young men who are confused
• 8:41
  David Savage: if they are, you know, proud of anything positive and masculine, you know, they're like, well,
• 8:47
  David Savage: you know, that's toxic masculinity. That's not good. Don't hold the door open for me. Don't
• 8:53
  David Savage: protect me. Don't, you know, there's this false narrative out there of this egalitarianism where
• 8:59
  David Savage: They're equal.
• 9:00
  David Savage: And there's all these television shows where women are punching men and knocking them out and everything.
• 9:05
  David Savage: And we know that's not true.
• 9:06
  Nicky Billou: I mean, it is.
• 9:08
  David Savage: It is.
• 9:09
  David Savage: So that's kind of how we got here, you know, in a thumbnail is, and these are one of my favorite quotes.
• 9:16
  David Savage: I think Edmund Burke said it.
• 9:18
  David Savage: It's evil prevails in the world when good men do nothing.
• 9:22
  David Savage: And that's what's been happening.
• 9:24
  David Savage: There's a lot of good men that have done nothing.
• 9:26
  David Savage: And we've been tolerant.
• 9:27
  David Savage: You know, we're told to be tolerant.
• 9:29
  David Savage: And, OK, you know, go along to get along and all that.
• 9:32
  David Savage: And we've just allowed our shore to erode away.
• 9:42
  Nicky Billou: So many years ago, I read a book called Willing Accomplices.
• 9:46
  Nicky Billou: It was written by a man named Kent Clesby, a former CIA case officer.
• 9:51
  Nicky Billou: And basically, the thesis of the book was that the West, and in particular the United States,
• 9:59
  Nicky Billou: have been the subject of a multi-decade infiltration by communist agitators that were
• 10:09
  Nicky Billou: initially funded and supported by the Soviet Union. And their job was to subvert the U.S.
• 10:16
  Nicky Billou: from within, to use its very openness against it. And there was a German communist named
• 10:22
  Nicky Billou: William Unsenberg. He was personally hand-selected by Vladimir Lenin back in 1917 to come to the
• 10:29
  Nicky Billou: United States and get people to help bring down its institutions, in particular education,
• 10:37
  Nicky Billou: media, and Hollywood. And if you look at, you know, films, textbooks, newspapers in the 1910s,
• 10:48
  Nicky Billou: 20s, they're all pro-American. And starting in the 30s, subtly some of the newspapers changed,
• 10:56
  Nicky Billou: Subtly, some of the Hollywood movies changed.
• 10:59
  Nicky Billou: And by the 90s, the infiltration was pretty close to complete.
• 11:05
  Nicky Billou: And right now, those ideas have taken root in the United States and in Western civilization in general.
• 11:14
  Nicky Billou: And a big part of it was to weaken the family because they knew that if they weakened the family, they'd weaken men.
• 11:20
  Nicky Billou: And weak men means that the enemies of Christendom, of Western civilization, can take over without
• 11:27
  Nicky Billou: firing a shot.
• 11:28
  Nicky Billou: That really is the long and the short of it is.
• 11:31
  Nicky Billou: There's many people who think, oh my God, that's a conspiracy theory.
• 11:33
  Nicky Billou: It's not a conspiracy theory, man.
• 11:34
  Nicky Billou: There's plenty of evidence out there for it.
• 11:37
  Nicky Billou: There was a KGB country destabilization expert who defected to the West in the 80s.
• 11:44
  Nicky Billou: His name is Yuri Besmanov.
• 11:45
  Nicky Billou: If you go on YouTube, there's a two hour long video of him talking about how they go about
• 11:51
  Nicky Billou: destabilizing countries.
• 11:53
  David Savage: Yeah.
• 11:53
  David Savage: I read that Laszlo Chambers, you know, I'm trying to remember the title of that book,
• 11:56
  David Savage: but it was the same thing.
• 11:57
  David Savage: You know, he was, he was a communist party member and then he had, you know, microfilm
• 12:01
  David Savage: in his pumpkin patch.
• 12:03
  David Savage: And it was, it was all that.
• 12:05
  David Savage: Witness.
• 12:06
  David Savage: Yes, that's it.
• 12:07
  David Savage: That's it.
• 12:07
  David Savage: Witness.
• 12:08
  David Savage: That's it.
• 12:08
  David Savage: That's it.
• 12:09
  David Savage: So, you know, and fascinating because if you're right, you know, America was very enamored
• 12:14
  David Savage: with communism, especially, you know, the Hollywood and everything. And so it was,
• 12:20
  David Savage: and it was effective. And unfortunately, you know, like you said, they seem to have gotten
• 12:25
  David Savage: to control institutions and then they pursued their agenda through the courts where they don't
• 12:30
  David Savage: have to win elections. And so, well, you know, we're going to take the 10 commandments, you know,
• 12:34
  David Savage: out of schools, out of public buildings, you know, everything has just been one lawsuit after another.
• 12:41
  David Savage: And so lawfare has been a big part of their strategy as well.
• 12:45
  Nicky Billou: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:46
  Nicky Billou: And see, what works is to have grassroots folks like you, like me, and like others go and talk about these issues to people one-on-one, you know, and one in a small group.
• 13:01
  Nicky Billou: Because if you get enough people to see the truth, you can beat these guys.
• 13:06
  Nicky Billou: One thing they don't have going for them is they're on the side of wrong.
• 13:13
  Nicky Billou: We're on the side of right.
• 13:14
  David Savage: The truth prevails.
• 13:16
  David Savage: It stands.
• 13:17
  Nicky Billou: Yeah.
• 13:18
  Nicky Billou: Yeah.
• 13:19
  Nicky Billou: So I just rather we beat them now and not in a thousand years.
• 13:23
  David Savage: You know what?
• 13:23
  David Savage: I agree with that very much, which is why I wrote my book and why I'm doing, you know,
• 13:27
  David Savage: what I'm doing with the podcast and everything else.
• 13:29
  David Savage: Because I think there's a stirring, you know, you know, you have millennials, you have Gen Xers.
• 13:35
  David Savage: And yeah, how they kind of generalize, that's probably not fair to any generation, but they're hungry.
• 13:42
  David Savage: You know, they've actually grown up in enough of false, you know, narrative being marketed to for everything.
• 13:50
  David Savage: And that's why they were kind of going back to like they want vintage things.
• 13:54
  David Savage: They want, you know, analog equipment now.
• 13:57
  David Savage: You know, they want turntables because they've tried all that stuff.
• 14:02
  David Savage: And what we all learn, it doesn't satisfy.
• 14:05
  David Savage: know, because it's it's fake.
• 14:07
  David Savage: And so I think that and then there's a there's a group of us, the baby boomers, which have
• 14:12
  David Savage: not stewarded everything well.
• 14:14
  David Savage: We have to accept our responsibility for that.
• 14:16
  David Savage: And we've talked about accepting responsibility, but we're still here and we're the last generation
• 14:22
  David Savage: that grew up without these screens.
• 14:25
  David Savage: And so we're the only ones who can educate people.
• 14:28
  David Savage: Look, this is what it was like before the screens and before, you know, we were all lazy.
• 14:34
  David Savage: We had the ability to think critically.
• 14:36
  David Savage: We were taught to think critically, to question, you know, to debate, you know, the classical
• 14:42
  David Savage: Greek education, you know, methodologies.
• 14:45
  David Savage: But today there's just laziness and that's, you know, sloth, which then in my view equates
• 14:52
  David Savage: with ignorance.
• 14:53
  David Savage: You know, it's like, I'll just ask Siri, I'll ask Alexa, I'll ask chat GPT.
• 14:59
  David Savage: And so somebody's writing that algorithm and they're just accepting that as truth.
• 15:06
  David Savage: And that is not, in fact, truth.
• 15:07
  David Savage: And that's very dangerous, I think, because they've just lost the ability to think critically, just like doing a, you know, like a math problem.
• 15:16
  David Savage: If you can't do it on a calculator, you know, they don't know how to do it anymore.
• 15:19
  David Savage: What happens, you know, when we don't have batteries or calculators?
• 15:24
  David Savage: We just lose it all.
• 15:25
  David Savage: I mean, you think about it.
• 15:27
  David Savage: I read another book that was like a fictional book, and it was like 10 seconds after.
• 15:32
  David Savage: And the supposition was that there was this giant electromagnetic pulse that came from a solar flare.
• 15:38
  Nicky Billou: Yeah, William Fortune.
• 15:39
  David Savage: Yeah, so it just wipes everything out.
• 15:41
  David Savage: All those books, they're great.
• 15:43
  David Savage: You know what? That happened.
• 15:45
  David Savage: There was an electromagnetic pulse by a solar flare that was in the 1850s that could wipe out all of Elon Musk's satellites and Starlink and everything else.
• 15:55
  David Savage: It just hasn't happened again since then.
• 15:57
  David Savage: And we didn't have satellites up there, so we didn't really experience much in the way of consequences.
• 16:01
  David Savage: But, you know, that's very likely to happen, you know, in the cosmic world of God, which time, you know, we don't understand.
• 16:10
  David Savage: It could just be gone a second, you know.
• 16:12
  David Savage: And my daughter went to Baylor University for four years, and I don't think she could drive to Waco today without turn-by-turn instructions, you know, from Google Maps.
• 16:20
  David Savage: And that's not good.
• 16:23
  Nicky Billou: No, no, it's not.
• 16:25
  Nicky Billou: It's not.
• 16:26
  Nicky Billou: But yeah, the William Fortune, you know, one second after, day after, year after books are fantastic.
• 16:33
  Nicky Billou: And the truth of the matter is, if we have an electromagnetic flare hit the Earth and we're basically taking down all the satellites, all the electronic devices that we have, we're screwed.
• 16:50
  Nicky Billou: We're completely screwed, brother.
• 16:52
  Nicky Billou: You know what I'm saying?
• 16:54
  David Savage: I do, man.
• 16:55
  David Savage: And I think I'll be a little better off because I was an Eagle Scout, man.
• 16:58
  David Savage: I learned I could start a fire with some sticks and things, you know.
• 17:02
  David Savage: That's why I love these survival shows and stuff and why I bought it Airstream.
• 17:06
  David Savage: I got my little bug out plan already in place.
• 17:09
  Nicky Billou: You are the man.
• 17:11
  Nicky Billou: You are the man.
• 17:13
  David Savage: Be prepared.
• 17:13
  David Savage: Be prepared, man.
• 17:15
  David Savage: It's a simple motto that I learned as a Boy Scout.
• 17:18
  Nicky Billou: Yeah.
• 17:18
  Nicky Billou: Yeah.
• 17:20
  Nicky Billou: It's facts.
• 17:23
  Nicky Billou: So love it.
• 17:24
  Nicky Billou: Love it, love it, love it, love it.
• 17:28
  Nicky Billou: You know, how prepared am I compared to you?
• 17:30
  Nicky Billou: Probably not as prepared as I could be,
• 17:32
  Nicky Billou: but I can make a fire, you know?
• 17:36
  Nicky Billou: I can cook outdoors.
• 17:39
  Nicky Billou: I can find my way around without Google Maps if I need to.
• 17:44
  Nicky Billou: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:48
  Nicky Billou: I got to go learn how to hunt.
• 17:49
  Nicky Billou: That's one thing I haven't learned how to do.
• 17:51
  Nicky Billou: I should go learn how to hunt and, um, come on down to Texas. Yeah. Yeah. Not much hunting in
• 17:58
  Nicky Billou: Toronto. Well, you know, in Ontario, there's a fair amount of hunting. Uh, there, there is,
• 18:03
  Nicky Billou: but you know, there's rules and regulations, which I'm sure you don't have in Texas. So it's better
• 18:08
  Nicky Billou: to come down over there. Right. Right. But, um, got to learn how to do that and got, got to just
• 18:15
  Nicky Billou: learn how to have what I call man skills. Right. Man skills, you know, which are survival skills,
• 18:23
  Nicky Billou: essentially. You have to be able to survive if all the advantages of modernity are gone.
• 18:31
  David Savage: Well, you know, I, uh, so my, my kids were like, uh, my daughter and my son were maybe 12 and 14.
• 18:39
  David Savage: And I decided to hire a retired sheriff's deputy, you know, to teach him like a personal handgun
• 18:45
  David Savage: class. And we went to the range and, you know, very, very strict, you know, about all the range
• 18:50
  David Savage: rules and everything. But there's just something about the confidence of knowing if you are in
• 18:55
  David Savage: some, you know, good grief, we've got all these horrible mass shooter situations and things as if
• 18:59
  David Savage: some gun slides across the floor and you're the person who can pick it up and do something,
• 19:05
  David Savage: you need to know how to use it. And so I taught them, you know, and with a professional how to
• 19:10
  David Savage: shoot. They both have pistols now they know how to shoot, but there's just this confidence about,
• 19:15
  David Savage: Hey, I'm, I'm ready to handle things because I've been prepared. I've been given these skills.
• 19:21
  David Savage: And a lot of, a lot of young men today have never been taken fishing. They don't know how to tie a
• 19:25
  David Savage: knot. They don't know how to bait a hook. And so what's happened is they, they basically just
• 19:32
  David Savage: withdraw, you know, from any situation where they could possibly be exposed, you know, for
• 19:37
  David Savage: that vulnerability. It's not that there's anything wrong with them. They just were never taught.
• 19:41
  David Savage: And so that's what I'm trying to do is, you know what? It's fun. It's fun to go backpacking. It's
• 19:46
  David Savage: fun to go out there and learn these things because again, that's that balance that I was talking
• 19:50
  David Savage: about in your boat. So then, you know, the wave doesn't tip you over. You're okay. I can, I'm just
• 19:55
  David Savage: going to rudder my way into that wave and, you know, we're going to keep pressing on. And I think
• 20:01
  David Savage: that's, you know, how we prepare people. And it's not like everybody gets a participation trophy.
• 20:05
  David Savage: It's like, man, I lost.
• 20:07
  David Savage: You know what?
• 20:07
  David Savage: I don't like losing.
• 20:09
  David Savage: So what do I need to do to win the next time or to be better the next time?
• 20:13
  David Savage: Well, I need to, you know, have some kind of a strategy.
• 20:15
  David Savage: I need to have some workout regimen.
• 20:17
  David Savage: Whatever it is that you're competing in, you know, a participation trophy doesn't teach you anything.
• 20:23
  David Savage: And then you get out there in the real world.
• 20:25
  David Savage: Once you're a young adult and you lose and you're crushed by it because you've never lost before.
• 20:31
  David Savage: And you don't know how to overcome it and say, hey, you know, I'm doubling down.
• 20:35
  David Savage: I'm getting back up.
• 20:36
  David Savage: I'm trying again.
• 20:38
  David Savage: Now I just have some experience.
• 20:40
  David Savage: I've learned something.
• 20:41
  David Savage: It's not really a loss.
• 20:42
  David Savage: I've just gotten some experience.
• 20:44
  David Savage: Unless you repeat the failure.
• 20:46
  Nicky Billou: No, no, no.
• 20:47
  Nicky Billou: Amen, man.
• 20:47
  Nicky Billou: I think it's a beautiful thing what you're saying.
• 20:50
  Nicky Billou: It really is.
• 20:52
  Nicky Billou: You learn when you try things.
• 20:56
  Nicky Billou: And making mistakes is the best way to learn how to do things properly.
• 21:01
  Nicky Billou: Next time.
• 21:03
  Nicky Billou: It's true.
• 21:04
  David Savage: Well, my favorite show on television is on the History Channel and it's called Alone.
• 21:09
  David Savage: And it's a survival show.
• 21:10
  David Savage: And they bring in these experts and they have to film themselves.
• 21:13
  David Savage: And I did a podcast on that, too, called The Top Ten Reasons Why Alone is the Best Show on Television.
• 21:19
  David Savage: And then I've had a guest who was actually a participant, a contestant on Alone, who should have actually won.
• 21:24
  David Savage: He killed a moose.
• 21:26
  David Savage: And he had more meat and he caught more fish and everything.
• 21:28
  David Savage: But his faith, he lived his faith on that episode or that show, that season.
• 21:34
  David Savage: It was just incredible.
• 21:35
  David Savage: His name's Timber Cleghorn.
• 21:38
  David Savage: And I'll tell you what.
• 21:39
  David Savage: And in the end, he said, you know what?
• 21:41
  David Savage: I got everything I needed out of this experience.
• 21:43
  David Savage: And he was just, you know, there's one other guy and him, you know, were left.
• 21:49
  David Savage: And then the last guy.
• 21:50
  David Savage: So 83 days living north of the Arctic Circle in Canada, up there along the McKenzie River Delta.
• 21:56
  David Savage: And I mean, it's cold and he has to build a shelter.
• 21:59
  David Savage: He has to process all of his food.
• 22:02
  David Savage: He has to survive in this frigid conditions.
• 22:06
  David Savage: And but man, that show is just fascinating because not only are you learning about the
• 22:10
  David Savage: survival skills, but also the psychology of being by yourself along with your thoughts.
• 22:17
  David Savage: And I think that was pretty eye opening to a lot of people during the pandemic when a
• 22:21
  David Savage: lot of the ways that we entertain ourselves and distract ourselves to keep us from having
• 22:25
  David Savage: to think about, things we don't want to think about were removed. And so now you're like,
• 22:32
  David Savage: hmm. And some of the guys who are the best at the survival skills actually end up tapping out of
• 22:38
  David Savage: that show because, you know, they got good at survival skills because they retreated into the
• 22:43
  David Savage: wilderness because of, you know, whatever emotional difficulties, alcoholism, whatever. And then
• 22:48
  David Savage: they're having to sit there and process that pain, you know, and they're just like, well, I'm out,
• 22:54
  David Savage: I don't want to do that.
• 22:56
  David Savage: But some have too.
• 22:57
  David Savage: But it's just very fascinating to watch that show from the psychological aspect of it.
• 23:02
  Nicky Billou: I've never seen that show, but it sounds like a cool show.
• 23:05
  Nicky Billou: I should go check it out.
• 23:06
  David Savage: It is.
• 23:07
  Nicky Billou: Yeah.
• 23:08
  Nicky Billou: This fellow who was a guest on your podcast, I'd love an introduction, man.
• 23:12
  Nicky Billou: I'd like to have a conversation.
• 23:13
  Nicky Billou: Yeah.
• 23:14
  David Savage: Timber Clegghorn.
• 23:15
  David Savage: I can do that for sure.
• 23:16
  Nicky Billou: That'd be great.
• 23:18
  Nicky Billou: So, David, why do you think men need and don't even know that they need masculine only spaces?
• 23:25
  David Savage: Well, because I think it's the way God wired us.
• 23:28
  David Savage: You know, it's just, you know, Jesus, he was our model and he was perfect.
• 23:33
  David Savage: And he said, hey, I'm going to have a group of 12 men and we're going to do things together.
• 23:38
  David Savage: And I'm going to teach them.
• 23:40
  David Savage: I'm going to teach them through story and parable.
• 23:42
  David Savage: And that's actually what I try to do through my podcast, Wrestling with the Inner Man.
• 23:46
  David Savage: I haven't mentioned the name of it, by the way.
• 23:48
  David Savage: And so I think that, you know, just brotherhood is so important.
• 23:55
  David Savage: I mean, all of the great movies, war movies, it's just that band of brothers, you know, that that opportunity.
• 24:02
  Nicky Billou: That's a great movie, man. That's a great movie.
• 24:04
  David Savage: Right. To go through something together, you know, 300, you know, with Sparta and all of these movies are about the brotherhood and the bond of, you know, there's the three kinds of love.
• 24:16
  David Savage: There's the filial love, which is like that brotherly love.
• 24:19
  David Savage: And then there's agape love, God love, and then eros, the erotic love.
• 24:22
  David Savage: But that brotherly love is a huge bond.
• 24:26
  David Savage: And you really need that and want that because you need to have someone be your accountability partner.
• 24:32
  David Savage: This is the iron sharpens iron thing.
• 24:33
  David Savage: It's biblical.
• 24:35
  David Savage: And we have to have it or you're just going to be stunted in your growth and development.
• 24:42
  Nicky Billou: Yeah.
• 24:42
  Nicky Billou: Amen.
• 24:43
  Nicky Billou: Amen.
• 24:45
  Nicky Billou: So why do you think when men become a part of a masculine only space, something wakes up in them?
• 24:55
  David Savage: That's a good question.
• 24:56
  David Savage: You know, I haven't really pondered that before.
• 24:59
  David Savage: I would say, you know, we're all looking for a sense of belonging.
• 25:05
  David Savage: I think if there was one human condition that was just universal across all people groups and everything else, it's like, I want this sense of belonging.
• 25:13
  David Savage: And that's why, you know, young men who don't have good family life are drawn to the gangs, you know, because they offer that.
• 25:21
  David Savage: So you have this sense of belonging when you're there and you're like, hey, this is this.
• 25:25
  David Savage: These are my people.
• 25:26
  David Savage: This is my tribe.
• 25:27
  David Savage: You know, this is who I belong with.
• 25:28
  David Savage: And we do these things together.
• 25:30
  David Savage: We're doing life together and we celebrate our victories together and we encourage one another.
• 25:35
  David Savage: You know, we've talked about Robert Lewis and his book, Raising a Modern Day Knight and having, you know, manhood ceremonies and saying, hey, you know what?
• 25:43
  David Savage: you did you you know we don't have cheerleaders for one another anymore once you once you become
• 25:49
  David Savage: like a young adult man in america you're just you know everything you could be you know in some kind
• 25:55
  David Savage: of high school athletic college athletics after that there are there's nobody cheering for you
• 26:00
  David Savage: anymore everybody's trying to pick on you because somehow you know you're perceived as having
• 26:06
  David Savage: privilege that you didn't earn or whatever and so then you're just always in this defensive posture
• 26:11
  David Savage: But when you're in a, you know, in a group of men that affirms you, that laughs, you know, that you can trust and say, hey, this is a safe place.
• 26:21
  David Savage: I think I love jokes.
• 26:25
  David Savage: I know many jokes.
• 26:26
  David Savage: I tell a lot of jokes.
• 26:27
  David Savage: I probably shouldn't tell some of the jokes that I tell.
• 26:30
  David Savage: But, you know, everybody can't be offended all the time by everything someone else says.
• 26:37
  David Savage: I went to Texas A&M University.
• 26:39
  David Savage: There's all kinds of Aggie jokes out there.
• 26:41
  David Savage: We paid Jimbo Fisher $70 million to go away as our coach.
• 26:46
  David Savage: Dubious distinction.
• 26:47
  David Savage: There's all kinds of Aggie jokes.
• 26:49
  David Savage: But, you know, I don't take that to heart.
• 26:53
  David Savage: I'm just not that easily offended because I'm not that fragile, really.
• 26:59
  David Savage: And so I think being around other men, being able to laugh, being able to fellowship,
• 27:04
  David Savage: being able to express your emotions viscerally that you have.
• 27:09
  David Savage: You know, sometimes you get mad.
• 27:10
  David Savage: You're like, I need to vent.
• 27:11
  David Savage: I need to tell somebody about this.
• 27:13
  David Savage: And I need to really let that steam off.
• 27:16
  David Savage: And, you know, you can't be in control, proper, tolerant all the time.
• 27:21
  David Savage: You need to be in a safe place where it's like, I'm not going to be judged.
• 27:24
  David Savage: I have a wealth of like long-term friendships.
• 27:28
  David Savage: I pledged the Alpha Tom Vega fraternity.
• 27:30
  David Savage: We helped start the fraternity at A&M in 1979.
• 27:34
  David Savage: And this guy who lives not far from me, you know, who was in my fraternity,
• 27:39
  David Savage: And, you know, we've been friends for, you know, 45 years.
• 27:43
  David Savage: And that guy, you know, you know, you've said on your show before, who are you going to call when you're in that Mexican prison at 3 a.m. in the morning?
• 27:50
  David Savage: I thought Clay Brown is the guy I'm going to call.
• 27:52
  David Savage: I have and I have many people like that because I had a job where I traveled.
• 27:57
  David Savage: So I was better at nurturing the relationships as I went around the country.
• 28:01
  David Savage: If I was on the West Coast, I'd call Bill McCracken.
• 28:03
  David Savage: I'm like, hey, Bill, I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area.
• 28:05
  David Savage: Let's go have dinner because you have to keep touching those.
• 28:07
  David Savage: You have to keep nurturing those relationships.
• 28:09
  David Savage: You can't just, it's not all one-sided.
• 28:12
  David Savage: So, man, that's how I consider myself wealthy, is in the relationships.
• 28:18
  David Savage: And I have the many, many close friends that I have.
• 28:21
  David Savage: Very blessed.
• 28:23
  Nicky Billou: Well, talk offline about that, because I believe that's the most important thing in life, is relationships with others.
• 28:32
  Nicky Billou: And if you're a businessman, you must understand that long-term successful relationships are the key to business growth.
• 28:42
  David Savage: They are.
• 28:43
  Nicky Billou: They're just the key to it.
• 28:45
  Nicky Billou: And if someone wants to get their business from wherever level it is today and say they want to add, you know, 5X it, 10X it, 100X it, the surest way is through relationship.
• 28:58
  David Savage: I agree.
• 28:59
  David Savage: 100%.
• 29:00
  Nicky Billou: Surest way.
• 29:01
  Nicky Billou: Like I spoke with you when I was on your show about, I really want to break in to the oil
• 29:08
  Nicky Billou: and gas business as a speaker.
• 29:10
  Nicky Billou: Well, I told you that.
• 29:11
  Nicky Billou: And I told you I'm an amazing speaker and I'm very pro oil and gas and very anti, you know,
• 29:18
  Nicky Billou: climate change alarmism.
• 29:20
  Nicky Billou: Right.
• 29:21
  Nicky Billou: And I know that a lot of these people, I love them and they'll love me.
• 29:25
  Nicky Billou: And I also know that at the moment, I don't have the right connections to get somebody
• 29:29
  Nicky Billou: to go, here's a check. Come on down and speak for us. And what's the best way for me to do it? Well,
• 29:36
  Nicky Billou: I have a friend who's in the oil and gas business. I've been telling him, hey, can you help me out?
• 29:39
  Nicky Billou: And he says, yeah, I'll help you out. And I'll get an intro from him. And now I know you,
• 29:45
  Nicky Billou: you've been in the oil and gas business. Hey, can you help me out? And that's how it's going to work.
• 29:50
  David Savage: That's exactly right.
• 29:51
  Nicky Billou: That's how it's going to work. And I'm going to get my first paid speaking gig in the oil and gas
• 29:56
  Nicky Billou: industry this year as a result of the relationships I have. I'm sure you will. I think I can help make
• 30:02
  David Savage: that happen, you know, but I think that we need, that's unfortunately, you know, the oil and gas
• 30:09
  David Savage: business has so many like extremely smart people, but they're not, they're not extroverts. They're
• 30:15
  David Savage: not good at public speaking. And so that's why I was successful in my businesses. I was a relationship
• 30:22
  David Savage: guy. I'm a technical person, really good at the chemistry and the math and everything else. But
• 30:27
  David Savage: I was kind of a hybrid because I was also a relationship guy. You know, after I got my
• 30:32
  David Savage: engineering degree at A&M, it was a fabulous technical school, but I had like no coursework
• 30:38
  David Savage: in psychology or anything like that. And then, you know, I got my PE license. I joined a
• 30:44
  David Savage: Toastmasters club when I'm in Austin because I'm having to do all this public speaking.
• 30:48
  David Savage: And, you know, I'm having to represent land development clients, you know, that are trying to grow and they're creating municipal utility districts.
• 30:55
  David Savage: So we need water and wastewater and paving and drainage and airports.
• 30:58
  David Savage: And then in Austin, you know, it's the old hippie community, you know, this keep Austin weird.
• 31:04
  David Savage: We don't want anybody coming.
• 31:05
  David Savage: You know, and it was weird.
• 31:06
  David Savage: It was a debate every night at a public meeting, a city council meeting, at an urban transportation review board meeting, at, you know, an environmental review board meeting.
• 31:15
  David Savage: And so I got into all this public speaking and Toastmasters.
• 31:20
  David Savage: And then I was really way more successful than my peers, but it wasn't showing up in my paycheck.
• 31:27
  David Savage: And I was like, man, you know, I think I'm ready to put some of my pay at risk on my performance.
• 31:34
  David Savage: And that's when my buddy from college, a fraternity brother of relationship said, hey, you need to be in technical sales, man, with Nalco.
• 31:41
  David Savage: You'd be great because you get an expense account.
• 31:44
  David Savage: You get paid commission.
• 31:46
  David Savage: You basically control your hours.
• 31:48
  David Savage: You get a company car.
• 31:49
  David Savage: And I was like, man, that sounded pretty good.
• 31:51
  David Savage: And so then I went to work for NALCO, which is the world's global leader in water treatment
• 31:57
  David Savage: chemicals, you know, for anything uses water, the power industry, the pulp and paper industry,
• 32:03
  David Savage: mining metals, refining of petrochemicals, you name it.
• 32:07
  David Savage: And but they have the best training.
• 32:09
  David Savage: And they had this program called Counselor Selling.
• 32:12
  David Savage: And man, I got all this psychology and all this other training that you don't get in college that all about the interpersonal skills.
• 32:22
  David Savage: And then that's where, you know, it just takes off because, you know, the oil business just gets beat up all the time, all the time.
• 32:29
  David Savage: And they don't have they have money for lobbyists.
• 32:33
  David Savage: But you got to go on the rubber chicken circuit and you got to go talk.
• 32:36
  David Savage: Well, actually, I almost went to work for this in my retirement.
• 32:40
  David Savage: I was looking at maybe going back to work in the Texas Energy Education Foundation.
• 32:45
  David Savage: So they're trying to act.
• 32:47
  David Savage: What's happening, I don't know if you knew this, Nikki, but in the last 10 years, you know, under the Biden administration, you know, they're saying oil is over.
• 32:54
  David Savage: You know, we're electrifying everything.
• 32:56
  David Savage: And so the enrollment at the University of Texas, at LSU, at Oklahoma, at Texas A&M, in chemical engineering, petroleum engineering has dropped by like 80 percent.
• 33:07
  Nicky Billou: Correct.
• 33:08
  David Savage: And there's a bunch of baby boomer guys like me that are retiring.
• 33:10
  David Savage: And there's this wide open field of fantastic, good paying jobs.
• 33:14
  David Savage: And they don't have enough people going in them.
• 33:17
  David Savage: So we're having to go down to the eighth grade level and try to get kids interested in these STEM programs.
• 33:23
  David Savage: And you have to go and speak at these public events.
• 33:28
  David Savage: And the engineers don't like to do it.
• 33:30
  David Savage: And so they need people like you and me to go and say, hey, I'll stand up in the audience.
• 33:38
  David Savage: And I don't have that fear of public speaking.
• 33:40
  David Savage: And I'm going to do my homework.
• 33:43
  David Savage: And then I'm going to refute.
• 33:45
  David Savage: Because what you find, especially in this climate change area, there's not even a veneer of intelligence behind any of it.
• 33:52
  David Savage: If you just look at something that every living creature that breathes exhales CO2, which, by the way, is required for photosynthesis for all green living things.
• 34:04
  David Savage: And you're calling that a pollutant?
• 34:07
  David Savage: It's just bogus, you know, on the face of it.
• 34:12
  David Savage: So, you know, I love to.
• 34:14
  Nicky Billou: They're lying sacks of shit.
• 34:15
  Nicky Billou: Let's be honest.
• 34:16
  Nicky Billou: Everyone in the climate change, alarmism industry is a lying sack of shit or they're ignorant and stupid.
• 34:21
  Nicky Billou: There really isn't much of a middle ground.
• 34:24
  Nicky Billou: They're lying sacks of shit or they're ignorant and stupid.
• 34:27
  Nicky Billou: If they're lying sacks of shit, then you've got to treat them that way.
• 34:29
  Nicky Billou: You've got to treat them like the enemy.
• 34:30
  Nicky Billou: And if they're ignorant and stupid, then, you know, you can help them not become so ignorant, not become so stupid by educating them.
• 34:36
  Nicky Billou: But the truth of the matter is without the energy industry, the world will stop in four days.
• 34:42
  Nicky Billou: And within six weeks, 30% of the planet will die.
• 34:48
  Nicky Billou: Within six weeks, within a year, 80% of humanity will die.
• 34:53
  Nicky Billou: Are you out of your freaking mind?
• 34:55
  Nicky Billou: You want to create a catastrophe of that magnitude to basically get your rocks off, get your jollies?
• 35:06
  Nicky Billou: Forget it.
• 35:07
  Nicky Billou: Forget it.
• 35:07
  Nicky Billou: You're going to have people like me come and stand up to you and whack you upside the head.
• 35:12
  Nicky Billou: And I'll speak candidly to you, David.
• 35:16
  Nicky Billou: I'm from Iran.
• 35:17
  Nicky Billou: I'm from fucking Iran.
• 35:18
  Nicky Billou: I'm not from here.
• 35:20
  Nicky Billou: compatriots in the last little while to demand their freedom went into the street with their
• 35:27
  Nicky Billou: bared bodies into the mouths of guns that ripped them to shreds demanded their freedom i am awed
• 35:34
  Nicky Billou: by their heroism and their courage and i'm telling you i ain't no north american who's
• 35:39
  Nicky Billou: gonna get pissed when some leftist is badly about me they're in trouble they're coming after me
• 35:44
  Nicky Billou: they're the ones in trouble i don't know if you ever saw this movie called the watchman
• 35:49
  Nicky Billou: no you ought to watch it it's a really cool the watchman okay comic the watchman but there's a
• 35:54
  Nicky Billou: character in there his name is rorschach and like the rorschach test right yeah and you know they
• 36:00
  Nicky Billou: kind of on false charges threw him in jail and um they're like trying to scare him right and he he
• 36:07
  Nicky Billou: said to them he said oh you think i should be scared because you've locked me up in here with
• 36:13
  Nicky Billou: you. And then all of a sudden his voice became real ominous. And he said, no, you're the ones
• 36:18
  Nicky Billou: who should be scared because you're locked in here with me. And you know what I have to say to the
• 36:23
  Nicky Billou: left? You think I should be scared because you're coming after me? No, you're the ones who should
• 36:27
  Nicky Billou: be scared because you've pissed me off and woken me up. And that's how I feel. And if you put me up
• 36:33
  Nicky Billou: on an oil and gas speaking stage and I speak like this, I'm telling you, the CEOs of the major
• 36:38
  Nicky Billou: companies are going to jump up. They're going to start applauding and go, this is our pit bull.
• 36:43
  Nicky Billou: Let them loose. Let them loose. Because that's what they need. They need somebody who's going
• 36:49
  Nicky Billou: to unapologetically stand up for the industry and tell the climate alarmist to go F themselves.
• 36:54
  Nicky Billou: And I have, not only do I have no problem doing that, it's my pleasure and my honor to do that.
• 36:58
  Nicky Billou: You relish the opportunity. I do it for free, but I like to get paid very well to do it too.
• 37:05
  David Savage: Well, I've done it, but much more diplomatically.
• 37:08
  David Savage: I have what I call like the Columbo approach because, you know, we've already established that there's, yeah, you know, if people are ignorant, you know, you just kind of ask questions.
• 37:19
  David Savage: Then you feign ignorance yourself.
• 37:20
  David Savage: Like, man, I'm just, you know, dumb Aggie.
• 37:22
  David Savage: I don't know.
• 37:23
  David Savage: But, you know, could you.
• 37:23
  David Savage: Like Columbo?
• 37:24
  David Savage: Yeah.
• 37:25
  David Savage: You know, so, you know, then and then you ask a couple of questions, you know, you get down to the veneer, like, you know, so, OK, however you want to phrase them.
• 37:33
  David Savage: And then you get him on the hook, you know, on that last question.
• 37:36
  David Savage: And you turn away.
• 37:37
  David Savage: Oh, wait.
• 37:38
  David Savage: And what I like, actually, this is probably one of my favorite tools, is the third party story.
• 37:45
  David Savage: And it's from the Bible is the model.
• 37:47
  David Savage: So when the prophet Nathan has to confront David, the king who can have him killed in an instant right there,
• 37:54
  David Savage: he tells him a story about there's these two shepherds.
• 37:57
  David Savage: And this one, he only has one little lamb.
• 38:00
  David Savage: This other guy has like a thousand lambs.
• 38:03
  David Savage: And he takes the one lamb from the guy and uses that for the Passover sacrifice.
• 38:09
  David Savage: And what would you do, king, you know, in that situation?
• 38:12
  David Savage: And he's, oh, he's all righteously.
• 38:13
  David Savage: And well, I would, you know, I would never tolerate that.
• 38:16
  David Savage: I would.
• 38:17
  David Savage: And then it goes, that man is you.
• 38:18
  David Savage: That's what you've done with Bathsheba.
• 38:20
  David Savage: And so if you can tell someone a story that's kind of like the Trojan horse or the vehicle,
• 38:27
  David Savage: you know, that says, I'm going to give you an illustration.
• 38:30
  David Savage: And then you flip it like that and go, do you see that's you?
• 38:33
  David Savage: And man, after they've already passed their own judgment.
• 38:39
  Nicky Billou: These guys like you are going to do that, but that's not me.
• 38:41
  Nicky Billou: I'm the pit bull.
• 38:44
  David Savage: We need them all.
• 38:45
  David Savage: We need the whole arsenal, man.
• 38:47
  David Savage: That's right.
• 38:48
  David Savage: Air, ground, sea, space force.
• 38:52
  Nicky Billou: There you go.
• 38:53
  Nicky Billou: Well, David, I really enjoyed having you on the podcast.
• 38:57
  Nicky Billou: Thanks for coming.
• 38:57
  Nicky Billou: Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
• 38:58
  Nicky Billou: Thanks for sharing your story.
• 39:00
  Nicky Billou: God bless you.
• 39:01
  Nicky Billou: And the world needs more of us helping more men.
• 39:04
  Nicky Billou: So keep it up.
• 39:06
  Nicky Billou: Let's keep doing work together to help more men.
• 39:08
  Nicky Billou: Hey, can I mention my book?
• 39:10
  David Savage: Yeah, bring it up.
• 39:11
  David Savage: Okay.
• 39:11
  David Savage: Okay.
• 39:12
  David Savage: The Savage Path, A Memoir of Modern Masculinity.
• 39:16
  Nicky Billou: What a whole thing.
• 39:18
  David Savage: You have a copy there?
• 39:19
  David Savage: Can you hold it up?
• 39:20
  David Savage: I do.
• 39:22
  David Savage: Can you see it?
• 39:23
  Nicky Billou: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:24
  Nicky Billou: Hold it up.
• 39:24
  Nicky Billou: So that's the Savage Path.
• 39:26
  Nicky Billou: All right.
• 39:27
  David Savage: That's me on the cover.
• 39:28
  David Savage: That's when I was backpacking in Glacier National Park, you know, and there's this switchback and I'm right there at the switchback.
• 39:34
  David Savage: But at any rate, the whole book is it's basically a memoir, but it's about it's using, you know, backpacking as a metaphor.
• 39:43
  David Savage: You know, so if we're hiking along and we're trying to be under God's will, then we're on the path, you know.
• 39:48
  David Savage: But when you're not, then you're going to end up, you know, over in the wilderness where the wild animals and the snakes and the dead fall is and it's dangerous.
• 39:56
  David Savage: And so you need to get back in God's will.
• 39:59
  David Savage: You know, I like what John Eldridge said is that we need every man needs three things.
• 40:04
  David Savage: You know, he needs a work to do, a will to obey God's will and a woman to love.
• 40:07
  David Savage: And so that's what I talk about, you know, as I go through the book.
• 40:12
  David Savage: And my website is www.thesavagepath.com.
• 40:16
  David Savage: And you can find out more about my podcast or about the book at the website.
• 40:20
  Nicky Billou: Thanks, man.
• 40:22
  Nicky Billou: I love the name of the book.
• 40:24
  Nicky Billou: And I think your book's going to do very well.
• 40:28
  Nicky Billou: It's on, what, copies on the way to you?
• 40:30
  Nicky Billou: I already mailed it Friday.
• 40:31
  Nicky Billou: I appreciate it.
• 40:32
  Nicky Billou: I appreciate it.
• 40:33
  Nicky Billou: I think your book's going to do really well.
• 40:35
  Nicky Billou: You're doing great work there, pal.
• 40:37
  Nicky Billou: You really are.
• 40:37
  Nicky Billou: Just keep it up and keep building relationships with folks like myself and keep helping men.
• 40:46
  Nicky Billou: Because more and more men need that.
• 40:48
  Nicky Billou: More and more men.
• 40:49
  Nicky Billou: We need to be in groups with men and we need to run groups of men.
• 40:52
  Nicky Billou: And that's what I have to say.
• 40:54
  David Savage: I agree.
• 40:55
  Nicky Billou: God bless you, man.
• 40:56
  Nicky Billou: All right.
• 40:57
  David Savage: Thank you.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: All right, Nicky.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Take care.
• 40:58
  Nicky Billou: You bet.
• 40:59
  Nicky Billou: You bet.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Sovereign Man podcast.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: If you're ready to take charge of your life and become the man you've always wanted to be,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: we invite you to join the movement at sovereignman.ca.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: you