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Carilu Melander - Redefining the Role of Partner Marketers · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Partnerships Unreveled, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries of our channel and partnerships on a weekly basis.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Effa and I'm excited to introduce our special guest, Carrie Lou.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Carilou, how are you doing?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I am doing great.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me on.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Really excited for the conversation around partnering.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you could give us a bit of an introduction about who you are, where you come from.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Carrie Lou Melander, and I'm currently the senior director of America's Partner Marketing at Cscaler.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've been here for about a year and a half.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: And my main responsibility is leading a group of partner marketing managers in America's covering North and South America and just really helping build that partner source pipeline, working with our partners both national and regionally.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been a great ride.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And previous to that, I have been with AWS, AppDynamics as well in partner marketing.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I certainly have enjoyed every bit of it.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for taking the time to join us today.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I always love talking to partner marketing people because I feel like you have one of the most challenging and interesting jobs in the ecosystem.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because I always feel like partner marketing people have to be both really good generalists.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: They have to have good business acumen.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: But also they have to be good at executing and like being detail-oriented as well.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that I think makes a really good partner marketer is that being proactive.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned before, maybe some of those partner marketers can be a little reactive in their job.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: They can get into that reactive mode where they're, you know, just executing on tasks that are requested from them.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you um what advice do you give to your team of partner marketers to help them shift from being order takers and become more strategic advisors and more proactive in their job?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's an important thing because when you're in this role, the number one thing that you need to be doing is building trust.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's the number one thing with the partner sales organization.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you go about building that trust, right?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be strategic with them and you need to understand what their goals are.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I always tell my team that they need to work backwards.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So understanding what their objectives and priorities are, what are their goals?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: What are they trying to reach?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And help them understand that you are trying to help them with that goal, right?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think another important part is asking the why.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you want to do this?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it so important?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of partner sales individuals don't get asked that question, right?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very order taker situation.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do this, this is gonna help me.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: But the important thing is asking those questions and ensuring that we are measuring something.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: There is an outcome to it.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then when you have that and you're able to provide that, you know, data, that insight that, hey, we did this because this is what you're trying to reach, right?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Then that trust really begins to build, right?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have a seat at the table, right?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I always make them create a slide, right, to really capture that particular partner sales manager, their goals, what are they trying to achieve, who are their important partners, um, net new logos, like all of that deal registration, um, so that they can reference it, right?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so when that partner sales manager comes up and says, I want to do this, it's like, how does it fall in this plan, right?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is this what we talked about?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's keeping them aligned, it's keeping them, you know, straight and um having clarity.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then there's mutual respect after that.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm I'm so glad you said that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I um I think also the when you start asking those that why question and trying to have a better understanding about the partner, you can also develop better campaigns that's going to yield a better ROI as well.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the next topic that I want to talk about because it's such a recurring theme that we have on the podcast that we have seen this shift or about partner marketing in partner marketing over the last few years where ROI has become much more scrutinized.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's all about okay, what are we getting out of this campaign?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you have a reputation uh about for balancing stronger partner relationships, but also with a disciplined decision making.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you know when to say no, uh, you know, how to approach that campaign from a perspective where it's about driving ROI.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to hear also how do you uh coach your team to make also smart choices with partners and respectfully guide the partners toward uh a campaign, a higher ROI activity instead of just saying yes to everything that uh falls on their plate.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, for sure.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, data is the anchor.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Data is the key, right?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Period, right?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: If there's no data, then how do what are what are we trying to do, right?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when we look at spending our particular funds, I always want to start with the result, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what was the outcome?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because a partner sales manager or someone else can say, hey, I want to do this event, we do it every year.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Great, you do it every year, but what have been the results, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's been the partner source pipeline?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Have there been deal reg?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's been the influence pipeline or the influence revenue, right?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And if it isn't driving those outcomes, then we need to shift the mindset, right?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of saying no, it's like, well, what can we do that's gonna be better and it's gonna drive the right outcomes, right?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I always tell my team, if this isn't driving the right results, let's be creative and think about something else, right?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're always gonna come to us and say, we need to sponsor this golf event, we need to do this happy hour, right?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what if we switch the channel, right?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And think about, well, what is critical?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Has the partner been enabled?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do they have their certs?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we start there.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's the fundamental, right?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we do an enablement series with them.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we do an incentive, right, to help them get excited and start thinking about Zscaler.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or how about a customer nurture campaign using intent data, right?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: If they are selling, you know, CrowdStrike, for example, um, well, what can we do to work together jointly, right?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: To help fill and start spinning, you know, that wheel and that engagement, right?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really where the both from the partner side and our side, then people start to understand, yes, that's gonna drive the outcomes, right?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I also see it as we're protecting the relationship, right?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because ultimately they're gonna be accountable with how they're spending their money, right?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I care about their success, I care about their deal registrations, I care about what they're driving, right?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so ultimately, all of this comes down to ensuring that we're maintaining a great relationship.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: We are deriving the right results, right?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really how I shift it.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, again, it's trying to be creative and it's going back to saying, um, let's figure out something that works better.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as partner marketing people, you are supposed to be act as kind of the trusted advisor to the partner when it comes to you know creating those events, those campaigns, because they come to you.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: You are the kind of have to guide them and as an expert to first understand what are we really driving towards, what is the outcome.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I really love that you say, you know, having that uh starting from the end goal and thinking backwards from that, from that.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I I really agree.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm so glad that you said that because I think that's one of the key responsibilities as a partner marketing person.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I want to pivot to a different topic.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we always talk also about how it's different working with the larger partners, you know, the bigger partners, also maybe hyperscales, it's even different.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: But uh there's also uh, you know, we all have our 8 to 20 rule.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's even 9 to 5.5.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um in cybersecurity, I know that it's uh it's about a lot more crowded at the at the lower end of the triangle.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but you so you made a deliberate choice to scale those smaller partners, your long tail, through distribution rather than direct touch.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: How do you make sure that you know those partners are getting the right support?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you what does it take to run a scalable and effective program with your distribution partners?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, um, I consider my disty a big important part of our business, right?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because they truly help us scale, right?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're really there to um drive that motion, right?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, and most of these distributors and who they're working with, those smaller partners, more than likely they don't have a marketing um arm to them, right?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no one dedicated on their team.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, what's important is enablement and clarity and having the programs available for them.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So um we've actually built an incredible partner demand center that utilizes a concierge, right, to really help these distributors, these partners, um, helping them execute campaigns, um, helping them think about, you know, the messaging that we're trying to create that ultimately drive pipeline.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we've had immense success with it, right?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So being creative and thinking about, for example, we've done meeting maker programs, right?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or turnkey nurture campaigns.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And these are things that partners can participate in, can execute and drive.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they threw it, do it through our demand, partner demand center.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the responses have been incredible.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: They come back to us and say, we've seen better response rates through your PVC versus us doing it on our own or going through an agency, right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we know that it works.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and, you know, we're always there.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and I have someone on my team dedicated to Disty.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And she understands that business too, right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's about that enablement.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So ensuring that, you know, one to many, and we also do it with our PubSec business, which is important as well, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we think of creative ways to do that enablement, but also what are we doing afterwards to help kind of execute on to that message and deliver that to their customers.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I also always feel like at, you know, those kind of partners, they don't get a lot of support and love from vendors typically.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's actually the competition is much lower.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much easier to, you know, gain their love and gain their uh trust.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, even like something small, I mean, not necessarily some, but any kind of help support, you know, the things that you mentioned, like partner demand center, chunky campaigns that you're doing, they are so grateful to have that kind of support.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they are, and you know, as at Chen X, we work with a lot of those partners, those smaller partners with distributors as well.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that they have a lot to gain from, you know, even a little bit of marketing effort, even doing a bit of campaigns can go a long way.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: We actually did some of the one of the uh most fulfilling things that I worked here at Chen X was we created a partner wall of love page.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And basically all the partners who have kind of seen results working with Chen X, they would uh, you know, we would ask them, like, hey, can you use a testimony?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how was your experience?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then we would ask them, hey, okay, if we can put it on our web page.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a web page now called Chen X partner Wall of Love.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you go there, there are like dozens of partners basically like talking about how you know, working with Chen X, you know, these like automated campaigns have helped them gain business.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So and and I sometimes like go to the web page and just like look at like, oh my god, I've actually like we've helped all these small businesses kind of get more uh business, you know, generate more customer inquiries.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's also one of the most fulfilling things about the job as well.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and I think the other thing too to think about is you look at emerging markets, and you know, I've got Latham that I cover too.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And when we're able to take these campaigns and do it in country with their language, they feel the love.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I've, you know, we were able to um translate one of our campaigns and it has just taken off in Latam.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they're so excited, they eat it up, they, you know, they they just feel, you know, almost like they're included, right?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that is important too, that that you're catering um to those emergent markets as well, because that's important.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I fully agree.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like, you know, don't want to put the blame on anyone, but a lot of times, you know, these channel head, like the headquarters team in the US will make decisions about uh, you know, product marketing about the rest of the world, but also, you know, being in Europe, also working with like partners in that time as well.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is so important to localize that uh that campaign.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like those people, they're not going to take that like American language, like even in UK, because some of the UK partners you work with, they, for example, sometimes say like, oh, this feels too American.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: The tone of voice is completely different.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it is so important to empower the local teams to make sure that like any kind of enablement marketing is localized, is in their tone of voice, and uh so they can bring that to their customers.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's so important.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was at AWS, I managed the um sort of their global ISV program, and we had that, right?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: We worked with someone that was able to localize.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: We had partner marketing managers um in country to really help.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And here at Zscaler, my peer, Ellery, has really done the same thing.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: She has taken this concierge program, and we've got people who are localizing.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, again, we're there, we're here to help them, and we're here to help them scale.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Curly, you spoke powerfully about being a Latina leader in tech, and you also talked about the importance of mentoring others.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: How has your identity shaped the way you lead?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And in your opinion, what does authentic and inclusive leadership look like?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's such an important uh question.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there is a women's basketball coach, um, UCLA um women's basketball coach, and her name is um Corey Close.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I've heard her speak numerous times.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've actually had her speak at some of my events because the things that she says and her leadership style is so powerful.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that she has said that, you know, just sticks with me, it's um it's not what you do, right?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's who you impact, right?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, that defines my leadership style and who I want to be, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also believe in situational leadership, and it's really meeting my employees, my direct reports, um, meeting my people where they are, right?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot expect someone on my team to, you know, treat them as someone who is younger and less experienced, right?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's something I always say, right?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I want to understand what how to help them grow, right?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where they want to be in life.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I I take that mentorship, right, as a leader very seriously.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um because I want them to look back and you know, have that to say this person really helped, you know, change my career, right, trajectory or help me get to where I wanted to be.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think um, too, when I think about me being a Latina, it's representation matters, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have many Latina um women as, you know, someone to look up to.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't that many here, right?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Especially in my career.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I still see very little, right?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so that really inspires me to be the kind of leader that I want to be, right?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be that representation for others to see it can happen.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: They can be the ones, they can um be those strong Latinas in tech, right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: I empower my team to speak up, to take up space, right?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: That, you know, to believe in their voice more than anything.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they feel that, right?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I have my team who tells me like they feel empowered now, they feel like they can do things.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really what being a leader is, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I always speak about authenticity because I do think that's important.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you're honest and when you're transparent, um, your team appreciates that.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: They see it, they feel it, right?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then they know that you're, you know, coming from a good place, right?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, for me, there's nothing more rewarding than to see um team members grow, right?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or to seeing them flourish and get that confidence.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, throughout my career, um, it has been wonderful to see.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I um I lived in Argentina for a while.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing, I was uh relocated for work.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And there was, I had led a kind of like a business development team, an SDR team.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And there was this one young girl who was very ambitious and very eager.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I certainly helped mentor her and helped coach her.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um even, you know, she would ask me questions.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: She went to college, she graduated, she's like, You've inspired me.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to college.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: She graduated college, she became a regional sales manager, her career just flourished.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and now, and and I still talk to her, by the way, and adore her.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she's a TikTok influencer for tech, for female tech.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think that is so amazing, right?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we talk about that, and she's like, just thank you for giving me that push.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for, you know, believing in me.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's so important as a leader to think about, you know, the type of leader you want to be, and most importantly, the impact that you want to make.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine that has been so fulfilling and joyful from your perspective to kind of mentor uh that person and seeing them grow.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's always I also always, you know, I'm kind of more in the beginning of my career, but I have my mentors.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I try to mentor others to the best of my ability.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's such an important responsibility.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say necessarily responsibility, but like something that really gives me a lot of energy uh in my career.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm also so glad that you said that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like as a leader, you are, we are all kind of responsible for making sure that everyone feels included and no matter where they come from, who they are, uh that they can feel empowered to speak up and say what's on their minds.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: That is 100% true.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I encourage my team as well, and I work with them to say, you know, let's talk about your mentors, right?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, who do you, you know?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have a list of people, you bring me a list of people, let's talk about that, right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Who you want to be your mentor.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I think it's important as a leader to help coach your team on that.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, it's good to see.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have one person on my team and she was hesitant, right?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: To have a mentor.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, gave her, you know, my suggestion and she took it and she's like, that was the best.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, it's a great mentor.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, of course, like you need that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone needs it, you know, and um, and if you don't have that in your space, right, find it, find it, go find that person.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: There are a ton of people who are there to help you and to help see you succeed and to grow and reach out to them.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like also maybe sometimes, you know, when I was also junior, I kind of realized that some people have a tendency to think that they might be bothering others when they're reaching out and like asking for help.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not the case, though, because I've, you know, my mentors as well, I know so well that they get a lot of value themselves by like mentoring someone who's young and eager and who's ready to learn, that gives them a lot of energy.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And also they learn from that uh relationship as well.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, to anyone who's you know at the beginning of their careers, don't hesitate to reach out to anyone, just send a message and you never know what's gonna happen.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's 1000% true.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't agree with you more on that.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I always say, you know, do you think someone's gonna say no?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you really think if they do say no, like why are they saying no?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you don't want them to be your mentor anyway, right?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Someone is gonna be eager and happy and appreciative that you look up to them.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Before I let you go, I have two more questions for you, Carlo.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: You've been in the space for a long time, you've been in partner marketing for a long time, and you've seen it from you know different lenses, startups, enterprises, hyperscalers.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think partner marketing will look like five years from now?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think is next in the timeline?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Great question.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think partner marketing is sort of stepping into a very data-driven, um, kind of ecosystem-centric era, right?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when I look at these next several years, right, I think AI plays a big role as a partner marketing, right?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because we can become more predictive.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: We can look at intent data, we can look about our messaging, how we're going to market with our partners.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we can dive into segments, right?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And how to message into those segments.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think AI has a potential if we lean in to really help the direction of partner marketing more than anything.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other thing too is I see a bigger evolution of ecosystems, right?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: So when we connect through the ecosystem like alliances, distributors or services, the storytelling is incredible.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that is more impactful to customers, right?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: When they see, you know, the co-marketing, the the alliances, right?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because that appeals to the customer more than anything.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, those two things um I think we'll see evolve more and more.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and to even go back to the to the AI, I think it it adds to that personalization.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: We're able to personalize, right?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're able to tell that story.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's just going to get better and better um with time.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about the the alliances and the core marketing story because I also see that as one of the key things going forward in partner marketing.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's going to be play play such a critical role.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think, as you said, the it's much more valuable to the end user because nowadays there's no standalone solution.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Everything works with integrations, everything is connected to each other.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when customers they're looking to solve a solution, they buy a range, an array of different solutions and different tools, and that they have to bring that together, you know, with the help of partners as well.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, as the landscape is getting more complicated and cybersecured, there's so many vendors out there, there are so many options to choose from.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I feel like also those alliances, different, you know, tech integrations coming together and really clarifying, okay, what is my what is our message, what's our value to the market, and like making it crystal clear and bringing that to the market, I feel like they're going to they're going to be the ones who win uh in the future of partner marketing.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that we've done such a great job here at C Scalar of ensuring that better together messaging with our stronger alliances, right?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's hyperscalers or you know, someone like Crowd or Okta.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you're right, like that whole integration is key when you message it, right?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's more impactful to the customers and the outcomes we're trying to achieve.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Kerilo, thank you so much for the conversation.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Before I let you go, I have one last question for you.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: We always end the podcast by asking our guests to recommend a future guest.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you think would be a great guest guest to have on the podcast?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would like to recommend uh Rebecca Javens.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: She has been an outstanding uh partner sales leader and someone that, quite frankly, I've looked up to.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when I was in my career, um, she was just someone that I respected and learned so much from.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think her insight would would be valuable.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for your recommendation and thanks for your time.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and see you in the next episode.