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Monday Mini: Callout Culture · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to Stephane never
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: told your production of I Heart Radio, and welcome to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna call this a new ish
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: kind of segment for the Monday Mini because we've done
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: a few things throughout and you know, typically this is
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: our shorter episodes where we talk about current events, current
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: issues and all of that. But you also know, I
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: am addicted to TikTok and I am on a lot
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: of controversial TikTok side, so like you have specific algorithms
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: that sticks to you. It's quite funny because people make
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: jokes of like, apparently TikTok things. I'm a lesbian introvert
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: with a d h D. That's fine, that's fine, that's fine.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: But you know, I find a lot of things fascinating
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: which I send to you often. Um that happens on
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: TikTok and so media, and I know we're gonna have
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: a fun episode coming up. Correct. I think we've already
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: recorded with Bridget talking about social media and some of
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: the new things that is happening that kind of seems
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: to be going in reverse to what we know we
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: being the millennials are for me, elder millennials. I don't
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: want to hear that again to what we began. So
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Facebook was what our first social media presence, and it
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: is quickly kind of becoming like a boomer thing somehow,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: and the rest of us have slowly, like quietly quit
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: from Facebook. I think we still have accounts, but we
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: rarely post um. But then we moved on to Twitter
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and that was a big thing and trying to keep
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: up with that. Oh no, my Space, I forgot. I
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: keep forgetting about my Space. Did you have on MySpace? No?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: But I like hearing my Space. I wasn't too young,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: but I was just a late adopter to everything. So
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I think when I in high school phone got it,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: but I never got it. Okay, um. Yeah, So there's
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: so many things and because of that, I feel like
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I want to have a Samantha's Corner. Samantha's rant. Uh
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: that's not specifically like the happy hours where we talk
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: about emotions. We're gonna talk about things that pop up
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, what is this and let's talk about it.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: And I know those articles out there and there are
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: about this, and this one has been on our plate
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: for a while, Like I was like, I need to
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: do this, um, And it's the call out culture in
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: social media. And I'm going to kind of go in
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: between call out culture, cancel culture, and accountability. So these
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: three things kind of start blurring lines. Um, but for
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: now we'll just call it call out culture. And Annie,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: have you seen any of it? Like I know people
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: send you TikTok's. Do you have you seen any of
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: that would be call out videos? You think? No? Uh no,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I I know people. And again this is we've talked
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: about ancel culture before. It is like that there is
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: a blind and it gets messy. I've had friends who
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: experienced it where the story wasn't complete, um, and that
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: can be scary. But I've never heard I don't think
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: anybody's ever sent me like a TikTok call out video.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I will. That's an assignment I'm going to take on.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: And this definition comes out of the dictionary from Cambridge
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: dot org and it says call out culture is a
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: way of behaving in society or group in which people
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: are often criticized in public, for example, on social media,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: for their words or actions are asked to explain them.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that has happened since the pandemic,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: since the protests for the Black Lives Matter movements. Is
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are coming on here with heavy opinions,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: saying the wrong things, doing the wrong things. Anti Vactor
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: is coming out with misinformation, racist tie raids, you know,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: all these things that have happened, and we get with
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: the age of social media cameras on phones where they
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: can get caught. And then all the sleuths that have
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: come through, all the all the TikTok detectives or the
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Instagram detectives that go through define and to get to
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: these people. Of course, again this kind of varies into
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: is that cancel culture kind of in between and just
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: as a reminder, cancel culture, which is defined by Mariam Webster,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: the practice or tendency of engaging mass canceling as a
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: way of expressing disapproval and exerting social pressure. So there's
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: been tons. I can name four specific people that literally
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: go through and their entire content is finding who they
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: think it's problematic, calling them out, and then giving out
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: public information. Now have we talked about docks and before
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: any Yes, I don't think we've ever done like a
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: whole episode on it, but it comes up in literal really,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I think every technology episode we do. Um, So this
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: is where we're gonna also talk about doxing, which is
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: defined as also from Miriam Webster, to publicly identify or
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: publish private information about someone, especially as a form of
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: punishment or revenge. So now I'm not saying that they
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: are doxing. Most of these sites will get public records
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: and then post them up. They will call out their jobs,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: they will call out their family, and they will call
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: out their other social media's with their full name. There's
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: one woman whose whole TikTok is just having people say
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: can you find me, to see if she can find
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: them as she can, like with the as minimal little
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: amount of information they can put out there, she can
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: figure out who they are and she'll do it. It's
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: almost like a party trick. It's kind of interesting and
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I'm like, also very terrifying. Of course, we're pretty public,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: so it's not it's something too new to us, I guess, um.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But it's very interesting because I was the verse one
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: to be like, yes, yes, go get them. These racist
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: pieces of jerks need to be called out. Yes, if
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: they are serving children, like the teachers or or nurses,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and they're spreading misinformation or talking about how they hate
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: a group of people. That's really problematic, and we need
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: to have this conversation and we need they need consequences.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: But it's become such a point of entertainment. I'm starting
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: to wonder is this a good thing? And in a
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: lot of these people have controversial backgrounds themselves or have
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: made statements themselves that put them in light, and so
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: you kind of start wondering, is this a way of
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: getting the justice? I guess so, Eddie, can you think
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: of a time what you've seen a person get justice.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know how else to say this. I think
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: we've talked about this in our Cancel Culture episode. I
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: would have said maybe Kevin Spacey, and now he's like
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: speaking again in publican rights Harvey Wine scene. I guess
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: went to jail, but it took so much to do it,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: and I'm not sure, like the social media part was
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: a big part of it, but it wasn't the only
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: um part of it. I also want, I guess I
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: want to caveat. I think my answer is not really
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: um but I do want to caveat. I'm not on
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: social media that much, um so because I think it's
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's one of those really fine lines, Like
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: we said, it's it's great it it can be really
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: great at calling attention to people in power and like, hey,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: we can't forget what has happened here, but if nothing
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: happens outside of that, I don't know. It's complicated. But
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I would say my answers with all those caveats not
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: really right. So I know. And we're going to talk
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: a bit about businesses too, because they are not immune
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: to this. But in a Guardian article that talked about
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: call out cultures, they said some people feel that callouts
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: are an excuse for petty drama, which is what I'm saying,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: in a way to stir up gossip more than to
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: promote social justice. And that is exactly one of the
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: things that like, I feel like, yes, there's vindication, but
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: at the same time, this feels gross that we are
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: all celebrating it. We don't. We shouldn't be sitting here saying, yes,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: we caught them, we got them fired. In the story,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: we know the whole event that happened in New York
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: with a bird watcher and the woman with the dog.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: She sued her company, and I think one because she
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: felt like that was, you know, done incorrectly. What she
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: did was racist as wrong. I will doubt that this
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: could have completely harmed that individual. But also the victims
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: said he did not want that for her. He did
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: not want all this conversation. What he wanted was just
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: to be able to peacefully go and have an interaction
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: of him move on. But this was problem to him.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: So I feel like we also need to listen to
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: the victims of the people. Right, So if he's the
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: one that saying I didn't want all of that for her, yes,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I wanted justice, but not all of this. This is unnecessary.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: And in that same article, they said a frequently cited
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: problem with callouts is that it's all too easy to
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: get carried away and overpunished people, turning alleged perpetrators of
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: upsetting acts into victims themselves. Um, and I thought that
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: was interesting because again, people are jerks and we know
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: things happen, but we also have seen things like people
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: writing from when they were seventeen fifteen because they have
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the newer generations have grown up with social media which
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: we didn't, which I didn't, that are being they are
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: being pun now for it. I will say don't be
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: uh ignorant and think that people cannot find your past.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: That's always something. But also I will say people change.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I changed. I changed from thinking that a forvord of
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: action was racist tokenism um, and I was gonna help
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: hauld up the white supremacy. Of course I didn't know
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: that then by saying I can earn my own which
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: is not the truth, this is not the truth, um,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: and what it actually did. But because I was so
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: young and really under the influence of my family who
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: believed that way, I thought that too. Would I have
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: said something if I had Twitter at that point in time,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Because making controversy for marcial statements can
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: also be a thing that makes you rise up right, Yeah,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: and uh we've discussed that too a lot of times
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Brigid or even in our recent YouTube episode of the
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Way the Algorithm Works, because you can get more attraction.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I doing that by making these kind of like really
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: incendiary claims and just catches on. And I think that's
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: like one of my biggest anxieties around all of this
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: is um because as we said that Cancel Culture episode,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: when you use correctly all for it all great, and
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: it's one of those things that like people, especially conservatives,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: like to like say which hunter or whatever, and that's
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: not what's happening. But when it becomes like I know,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: there's been a couple of instances of somebody has a
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: similar user name to someone else and then you as
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: the as the person who just like glombs on, it's like, oh, yeah,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: we're mad at this person because they did a terrible thing,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: and you don't do the research, you don't do the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: like the step, and you just do it. And then
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: it turns out that wasn't who you were mad at.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: The different person. Now this person is dealing with all
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: of these things that maybe they had nothing to do
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: with this whole conversation. So that's what kind of makes
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: me makes me nervous because I think it is set up.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: A lot of social media is set up to reward
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: kind of this lake yeah, controversial cindiary things, right, and
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: it brings out a mob mentality for sure. And there
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: have been several instances when they go after private people,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: tag the wrong person and they get flooded with harassment repeatedly.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: And it is such an unfortunate event because we've seen
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: that constantly because people don't do background checks, and they
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: try to be detectives by saying this is here to
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: here to hear, and this is this person obviously, and
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: it kind of becomes again a show for them to
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: try to undo that. It's hard to undo that. UM.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Now things people do move on to the next person,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: but it's hard to undo a lot of those things. UM.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: One of the articles that I read was an interview
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: with scholar and feminist Loretta Ross, Professor Ross, and she says,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: it's the tendency which is unfortunate for people to want
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: to publicly shame and humiliate people, and it's based on
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: what they say, or what they look like, or what
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: they wear, or who they're hanging out with, or who
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: they agree or disagree with. Is attaching labels to people
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: without really doing any kind of nuance, without understanding that
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: even if you disagree with someone, you shouldn't want to
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: attack their humanity, call them a toxic person, or things
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: like that. It's usually done most damaging lee over the
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: internet because social media amplifies and makes all callouts basically
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: go viral immediately. And again, this is kind of that thing.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Like I can think of five people like they were
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: and they were all fighting with each other. They've all
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: had to step away from their account because they got
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: something so wrong, or they were so offensive in some
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: things that they had to stop and say uh, but
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: they were still too deep into their content to stop. Altogether,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: there are so many things. And then I don't know
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: if you remember this video I think I've talked about
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: it before where a girl gets into a wreck with
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: a very fancy vehicle and all you see is the
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: girl screaming at him and it looks like that she
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: had hit him. But then you she gets a surveillance
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: camera CCTV footage which shows he actually cut her off
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and she he hit her. But like, because he released
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: that video, people started attacking her and immediately calling her
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: job because that was all public information, and she was like,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: what the hell? And then because of that, it got
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: really really complicated in the poort case for that wreck
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: or the insurance case, I guess. But we see stuff
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: like that and always sees half the time it's half
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: videos and it moves on. Now let me put this
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: caveat here. Videos like police brutality, videos like that, there
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: is no what did they do? I won't we won't
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: stand for that. That's both no, no, police or no.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: People who think they're an authority have the right to beat,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: to abuse, or to u totally anyone, point blank. That
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: should not be a thing. I won't talk about that.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: We're not going to talk about the current issues that
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: have happened. Again, even if they did something wrong outside
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: of like truly almost killing someone, like with a gun
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: with intent, A guilty person should not die either. A
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: person who commits a theft should not have to die.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: A person who is asking questions and trying to figure
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: out why they're being detained should not be hurt and abused.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: So that part we're not talking about that, We're not
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: talking about that issue. What we're talking about is the
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: small accounts of she wrote this, let's cancel this person.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: She said this, let's cancel this person. Racist tirades are
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: not good. That needs to be called out. But again,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: we do need to talk about growth. You can't fix racist,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: but you can't fix situations, and you can talk about
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: why they're angry. Mm hmm, I mean, I think that's
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: next quote you just read. I think that's one of
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: the keys is social media can because of the limitations
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: of what you communicate, it can be very limited in
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: terms of nuance, and I do think nuance is important,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: and you know, there are some things that yeah, absolutely
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: or like well I got the nuance and they're still
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: canceled like that. But like if you, I feel like
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: a lot of us don't even take that step, would
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: just see like, oh everyone else is doing it, I'm
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: gonna get on board or else they're gonna think that
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: I'm bad because I didn't say anything and just build
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: and its snowballs out. And especially because we have it,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I'm soo coming out on AI. We've talked about deep
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: fakes before, like it's going to get more and more
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: complicated in the future for us to know what is
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the reality? When is the truth of what we're seeing online?
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: And that was something like the older generation struggled with
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: because they didn't grow up with social media, they didn't
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: grow up on the internet. Now, you and I, especially
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: because this is kind of a burgeoning technology, we're going
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to have to be vigilant about that because you can't
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: if the technology is so good and like I mean
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: fred accounts of you know, revenge porn targeted at women,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: especially like journalists or something like that, and if nobody
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: I mean number one. A lot of that shouldn't even
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: be a fire able offense with us a whole other situation.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: But anyway, Um, but it's like once people just make
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: these videos and they're sending them to like your family,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: so hard to be like, hey, no, I know it
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: looks right anyway, which is a concern with the power
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: of social media. There's a power to shut down businesses.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: We you know, I kind of alluded to that in
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: a Forbes article about call outs. They actually posted this.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: In a recent study conducted by who is hosting this
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: dot com, it was noted that it can take dozens
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: of glowing reviews to reverse the damage of single scathing complaints,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: especially if the complaint goes viral. More importantly, more people
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: now publicly calling out companies on social media. Now, I
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: will say, I feel like oftentimes the big corporates, you
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: can't get their attention until you do call them out.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Airbnb is a prime example of that. Amazon is a
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: prime example of that. All the airports apparently, like all
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: of them, there's not a single one that's not been
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: called out. I feel like they've all been called out,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: and that's seemingly the only way you can get to them.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Because you can't find any satisfaction through doing it individually quietly.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: And the same study found that the fifty one of
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: respondents of who have they surveyed said they called out
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: a company, and it was it isn't just the young
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: crowd that is being as so vocal on social media.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: In fact, forty four percent of baby boomers said they
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: made complaints about a company, and men were more likely
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: to voide their concerns, which we should talk about because
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: you all have this habit of calling Karen's because we
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: do see the videos, but apparently then make most of
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: these complaints anyway. But yes, I've seen so many and
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, these businesses need to be called out.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: If they refused to serve someone because of race, call
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: them out. They don't deserve that business if they like
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: all these things, if they kick you out because of
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: one thing or another. But it was also used by
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: anti vaxers because they refused to give service to people
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: who didn't wear masks inside during the pandemic. So this
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: is where it also flips. Mm hmm, yeah, I mean
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: that's the thing, um, because I don't think it's a
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: surprise to anyone. I doubt it was listening. We're pretty
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: were liberal because I feel like so many things we
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: talked about, it has like the potential to do these
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: good things, but it has the potential to be like
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: weaponized in the other way where we've talked about kind
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: of like you know, co opting of terms like woke.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Are things like that from like conservative people who are
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: now using it, like not in the way like it's
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: been like taking those ideas and then changing them and
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: turning themselves into the victim here. So like the whole
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: idea about masks, you know, I'm the victim. I can't
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: do what I want or like even if you can
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: think about like things like businesses who were refused to
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: make like cakes for gay couples or whatever, where it's
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: like they want they want to do whatever they want,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: but they but unless unless it doesn't agree with like
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: my value set, and it is it's murky. I get
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: to keep going back to the world nuance, because there
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: is a lot of nuance in this conversation. But yeah,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: like that again, if you just don't do your research,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: if you're just like, oh, look at this one star review,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: and that's where I will never go there, And then
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: the one star review is maybe, oh, they made me
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: put on a mask, and maybe you agree with that,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: and you're like, actually, I really like that, right, I
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: would like to go there then, right, and yeah, that's
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: exactly the right. Like, there's so many things and at
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: the very beginning we talked about is that when someone
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: comes on social media and says this person this to me,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and then you have people all over the world, not country,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: all of the world going to their side and just
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: crashing their reviews and making stuff up. They made stuff up,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: like people would be like I saw this roach, this
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: person trying to kick me out, this person trying to
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: serve me, a severed foot like stuff like that. That
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: wasn't making I made that one. I'm sorry, but that
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: will be my review for somebody. I'm just kidding. But like,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: they made things up, so you don't know exactly what's happening.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong again, if they're racist, that they're
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: not serving people. But there was a lot of times
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: where the person who was trying to get something was
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the offender, and then we did not know that until
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: way later. There's so many things like that that we
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: don't quite understand. Now. Again, I don't want to go
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: back to the this is this this side of the story,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: that side of the story. There's definitely situations to that,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: but there's definitely situations where like, no, that was injustice
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: and that was unfair. And we believe that anybody who's
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: being sexually harassed, anybody, any we know this, So this
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: is what that in mind. Um And by the way,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: again in the Forbes article, it says that the survey
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: also found that fifty two of those who said they
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: call out companies did so to raise awareness and said
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: it was so that others could avoid similar problems. So
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: the motives were high minded, so the survey noted, but
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: it suggests that there's more than just a refund or
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: discount in mind. And again, I've definitely seen those people
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: who were like, they've tried that route, they got no answer,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: So this is what they're gonna do is publicly called
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: them out. I I think like, there's again this is
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: one of those like I don't know how I feel moments,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: you know, like those people who call out racists and
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: sexist acts and people. I'm glad, I guess, but I
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: really hate that we rely on these people when they
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: do this. It's all gloating and it's all it feels petty,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, you're literally getting views on the backs
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: of someone else is suffering. Is that okay? All right?
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I mean that's going back to what you said about
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: the accident of New York, Like what who are we
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: doing this for? Like? Who who are you calling out for?
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: And I think it's really easy to tell yourself while
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I'm like doing doing the God's work or whatever. Right,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean we're kind of we've really monetized
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: and we're not like we're making money, but like the
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: the whole the currency, the whole currency of like internet
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: kind of performative action and getting those views and getting
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: those followers can be I think people can lose sight
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: of who it should be for. Like if you if
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: you're doing it for like high minded things or something
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: other than a refund and discount, that's not necessarily wrong.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: But if but if that's just kind of a performative
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: thing that you're doing or not doing the research, then
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: that's that's not the same. Yeah, Well, any thank you
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: for going down this rabbit hole with me, because I've
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: got so many more questions that I'll be bringing about
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: in my now Sam's corner segment. Okay, but why Internet
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: but my Internet? Well that we do have a lot
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: of questions about that and we will not run out
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: of content. Awesome. Well, thanks for bringing this topic, look
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: forward to the next one and listeners. If you have
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: any like why Internet topics we should discuss any thoughts
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: about this, you can email us at Stefan mom Stuff
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: at ihart media dot com. You can find us on
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Twitter at most of the podcast on Instagram and TikTok
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: that stuff I've Never told you. Thanks as always to
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, and thanks to
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: you for listening. Stefan never told his prediction I Hire
• 24:50
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• 24:53
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