Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Jeff Kinley: What’s Wrong With Christian Nationalism?

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Jeff Kinley: What’s Wrong With Christian Nationalism? · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Hi, friends.
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  What is wrong with Christian nationalism?
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  And while the Sun is patriotism a bad thing, we're going to talk about that today with
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  author, Jeff Kinley.
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  Before we get to Jeff and bring him in, we want to thank you guys for sending in your
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  donations twice a year.
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  We come to you and say, hey, we're doing this for six months, not for six months.
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  We're trying to raise money for the next six months of podcasts and you've been doing,
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  you've been keeping us going.
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  We're just so thankful.
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  So the website is worldviewmatters.tv.
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  More on that and just a little bit once we get going.
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  Great book out called God's Grand Finale, Wrath Grace and Gloria and Earth's Last Days.
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  That's from author, Jeff Kinley.
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  And we're blessed to have him on.
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  You can go to the website, TheKingIsComing.com or, of course, Jeff Kinley.com.
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  You can get info on the Vintage Truth Podcast, Prophecy Pro's Podcast with Todd Hampson.
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  And The King Is Coming TV Program.
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  You can actually watch that on the real-life network as well, brother, so much to talk
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  about.
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  Thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
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  Good to see you.
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  Of course.
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  Dave, it's always great to be with your brother.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, what have you been doing lately?
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  You've been preaching at conferences, writing some more.
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  I mean, you're keeping up with your podcasts.
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  That question one is, what have you been doing and how do you keep up with everything?
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  A lot's been going on.
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  It's been a hugely packed schedule for me.
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  Lots of travel, a lot of airports and conferences and California.
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  It's got back from Iowa, got back from Canada.
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  Brazil was last month and just a few more dates left in the year.
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  And we're going to take it easy for a while.
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  So yeah, just speaking to a lot of conferences and it's all on Bible prophecy.
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  So the hunger is out there, for sure.
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  You know, is the hunger growing, do you think?
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  Because I know that what is it?
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  A huge percentage of churches don't touch on it, ignore, avoid whatever you want to call it.
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  Bible prophecy.
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  Do you see that shifting a little bit?
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  What's your take on that?
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  Yeah.
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  I really do, David.
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  I see a remnant church rising up and wherever we go and wherever I go, I'm seeing places
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  start to really pack out and there are people that are actually putting on conferences
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  by themselves without the support of their pastor, without the support of an organization
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  that should look.
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  I'm going to raise some funds.
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  I'm going to get a committee together and we're going to do a prophecy conference.
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  And some of that we've seen those in the hundreds of people coming to these things.
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  So yeah, I think there really is a great, great hunger and a real remnant that's rising
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  up and beginning to see how relevant Bible prophecy is for where we are today.
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  That's funny.
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  They've got a bypass the pastor to put on a biblical conference.
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  Oh my goodness, that's the state of America, isn't it?
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  It really is.
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  I used to joke.
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  I was on staff at a church one time and it got so bad, I said, I'm going to have to leave
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  the church so I can go back in the ministry again, you know, kind of thinks so.
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  And obviously, it's funny and sad at the same time, but yeah, it is, it's kind of a happy
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  sad thing.
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  Oh gosh.
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  Okay.
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  So one of the things that you suggested we addressed today, I'm thankful for that, and Christian
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  nationalism would be it.
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  We haven't talked in depth about that on this podcast.
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  However, I did have Jack Hibzon and it was after he had opened Congress with that offensive
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  prayer.
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  And I just want to go back to that.
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  I think I have a couple of the things he told me were about two thirds of his controversial
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  prayer was actually based on historical phrases coming from those who founded the country.
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  And Jack Hibz said, I just borrowed from our history and today people couldn't take
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  that.
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  For example, his prayer was based on Reverend John Witherspoon who actually served in Continental
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  Congress.
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  He was the president of Princeton who was the founding father who educated so many others
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  about a biblical perspective on government.
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  So Jeff start right there and see, first of all, the observation is wow, things have changed
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  since the days of Witherspoon and the founding fathers haven't they?
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  They really have.
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  And what most people today will purposefully neglect is the fact that our country was founded
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  upon Judeo-Christian principles.
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  And the Bible was an intricate part of what informed the framers of the Constitution.
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  You had virtually all, almost all men that I can recall were at least believers in God
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  and there might be a practicing Christians that signed the Declaration of Independence.
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  But God was just a part of daily life.
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  I mean, Benjamin Franklin used to say during the great awakening that you could hardly
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  walk down a street in America and not hear him singing coming from homes.
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  And so and he himself was a supporter of Edwards ministry.
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  But there's so many people that today that will deny it, you talk about denying history.
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  They go back and try to rewrite history and then deny the way that Christianity once
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  informed our great country.
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  So for someone like Jack to then at least even allude to some of the things that our early
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  framers said, they find that very, very offensive because they're trying to fundamentally reconstruct
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  and reset and reimagine our country.
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  And unfortunately, Jeff, Kenley, they've been somewhat successful doing that, editing
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  or changing our history, the public school textbooks, the history books.
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  And unfortunately, we're now we now have a generation that have grown up, not learning
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  perhaps what you and I did when we were going through school and before that on true American
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  history.
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  And I just pulled up, for example, the first prayer of the Continental Congress from 1774.
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  And in that prayer earlier this year in Congress, Jack Hibbs also borrowed from Jacob Duchet
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  who was a pastor who opened that prayer and he used the F word father, father, hell dare.
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  Yeah, and he used the J word Jesus.
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  And these things are offensive now, but friends, it'll take time to go through all that and
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  I don't want to with Jeff.
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  I want to hear your commentary, but I want to encourage people to go to, you can go to
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  chaplain.house.gov and look up the first prayer of the Continental Congress by Reverend
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  Jacob Duchet and read that from 1774.
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  And then I think a lot of people would look at that and go, wow.
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  So why is a few phrases so offensive now?
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  Go ahead and share whatever you'd like about that Jeff.
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  Yeah, so basically what we've done is we have voted God off the island in our national
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  conversation.
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  We just said, no, you're not a part of us anymore.
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  We don't want them in the marketplace.
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  We don't want them in government.
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  We don't want them in schools, universities.
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  We don't want them online.
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  Everywhere that God has mentioned, there will be an attack against that.
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  And I think there's a greater narrative that's going on here, David, is that Satan is ramping
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  up to the last days.
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  He's ramping up to a global government, ramping up to an anti-God narrative.
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  And so he is work.
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  He's the prince to the power of the air.
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  Ephesians 2 says, and so he's the one, I believe, that's driving this narrative.
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  And the other thing that he does, that he's really a master at and that his minions, his
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  followers do very well, is they take Christian principles.
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  And they'll hijack those things and then redefine them for their own purposes.
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  I mean, words like democracy, saying things like that, if you're a patriot, you're a threat
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  to democracy.
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  If you believe in righteousness, then you're now a hater.
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  Now they've redefined tolerance, they've redefined love, they've redefined diversity.
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  These are all in unity.
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  All these things are good values, but when applied to negative and unbiblical principles,
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  then all of a sudden they mean just the opposite of what they originally meant.
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  And that reminds me of Isaiah 520 that says, load of those who call evil good and good evil.
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  So Satan's changed the price tags, he's changing the definitions, and he's changing the minds
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  of really the majority of people in secular society.
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  Yeah.
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  True.
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  Jeff, let's go back now.
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  We started talking about Christian nationalism.
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  And why this is almost used as a derogatory term or looked at in a way, not by everybody,
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  but by enough people that would attack us.
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  But don't we have to go back to what nationalism is and define that, which is basically loyalty
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  and not even pride, maybe, of your country, but loyalty to your country or your system
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  of government to a nation, especially one like ours, with the freedoms that we have.
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  What's wrong with that?
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  So go ahead and share a little bit about nationalism, maybe, and how that now Christian nationalism
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  because they're looking at that as a poor thing, negative thing.
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  Absolutely.
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  Yeah, I mean, you go to any other country in the world, you go to if Italy celebrates
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  Italy, if people are proud of being Swiss or being German or all of a sudden it's wrong
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  to be a fan of your country now.
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  And basically, again, what the left is doing, what the liberal left is doing is, again,
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  they're redefining things.
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  They're trying to find points of commonality between our income and administration and
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  with Nazism.
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  So they will say things like, well, all you people that are anti-abortion, now think about
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  how radical this is.
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  Your anti-abortion only because you want babies to be created for the state so that the
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  state can then exercise more and more tyranny.
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  You want to salute the flag, just like Hitler had people saluting him.
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  And so they'll take all these things and completely turn them inside out.
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  The idea, to me, David, of Christian nationalism is just what you said.
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  It's being a good patriot.
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  We grew up saying, I pledge allegiance to the flag.
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  And what did the flag represent?
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  Freedom, represented independence, represented being able to pursue the happiness in your life.
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  But today, they say that represents tyranny.
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  But the mere fact that they say it represents tyranny, they're trying to force that on
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  people isn't itself tyrannical.
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  And so for me, someone asked me not long ago, what do you think about Christian nationalism?
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  I said, well, it really begins with how you find that term.
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  If you're coming at it by saying Christian nationalism is a sort of a dominion theology,
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  if you will, of Christians wanting to force take over the country by any means necessary,
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  even military force that I'm obviously against that.
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  If you mean Christian nationalism is just someone who is a Christian, but who is also a patriot
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  of their country and wants to see righteous values enacted, then Christian nationalism is
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  a good thing.
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  And what I also find very offensive right now is that there are some camps within the
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  Christian world right now that are really kind of decrying the fact that Christians were
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  very involved in the election and that they're actually happy about the election.
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  And my response to that, David's just simply been, look, all we're really saying is if
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  there's a candidate that wants to destroy babies and the one that doesn't, if there's
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  a candidate wants to mutilate young kids, their genitalia, and then one is against that,
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  one that wants men to go into women's bathrooms, one that doesn't, one that wants to open
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  the borders, one that doesn't, one that wants us to be economically independent and one
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  that doesn't.
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  All those things just add up to, well, it's just kind of like a no-brainer.
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  And so yes, we should celebrate good things because we have had a long time where we haven't
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  been able to do that.
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  So I think it's quite fine to do that where obviously you don't make our new candidate
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  Trump into some sort of idol, some sort of deity or anything, but it's just the idea
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  if he's a guy, an imperfect man who's wanting to do some good things and get behind it
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  because that's the only choice that we have.
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  Yeah, you mentioned policies and platforms and procedures, not personality because every
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  human being is flawed.
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  So you couldn't vote for anybody then.
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  No, isn't this interesting?
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  Do you kind of sense that some people were kind of up on their high horse or, or I can't
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  vote because it's the lesser of two evils?
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  That's just such a warped perspective in my opinion because they're looking at, well,
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  I'm too, maybe I'm too righteous to vote because I can't lower myself to be involved
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  in the affairs of the city and the country and politically and vote for anything that might
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  help Christians influence culture for righteousness.
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  It's just such a twisted thinking.
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  Go ahead and share your thoughts on that, Jeff.
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  No, really, as I think it's a combination of that of really self-defeating ignorance and
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  self-righteousness.
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  And on the one side, it's kind of like, let's just say your kids are going to a school
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  and there's one person that wants to cook them for lunch.
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  They want to cook them just pizza every day and somebody else wants to cook them a well-balanced
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  meal with the meat and veggies and some starches and good meal.
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  But that per other chef, you know, maybe they've got a divorce or something or maybe they're
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  not a perfect person and you're not voting for the good food because of the person that's
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  going to be cooking it.
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  And so in my mind, it's like, well, you know, I want to just let your kids eat good food
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  instead of letting them eat pizza every day, regardless of what the person is.
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  So again, I think Jack Hives did a good job of pointing this out is that we're not voting
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  for a pastor.
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  We're not voting for someone to come in and live in our home with.
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  This we're voting for a person to run a business called America.
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  And we need to pick the best businessman that's going to have the best alignment with our
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  values as Christians, which include righteousness, security, freedom, and an ally being an ally
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  to Israel.
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  And those things all seem to line up.
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  Thank you, friends.
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  We're with Jeff Kinley.
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  There's several websites you can go to the kingiscoming.com is one of course, Jeff Kinley.com.
• 14:38
  We've got to take a brief pause.
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  We'll be right back on World View Matters.
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  So Jeff Kinley has the left overplayed their hand.
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  Did they push too hard?
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  Did they push the, in my opinion, demonic ideologies and you can go down the list too far and to
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  the point the public pushed back in the election results.
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  As according to George Barna and the Cultural Research Center, Americans' faith and core
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  values are what drove Trump to the landslide election victory.
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  And I've got the Barna research.
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  Don't have enough time to go through it.
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  But it's interesting.
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  And that, by the way, is with a huge percentage of Christians not voting.
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  So you're taking on that, please.
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  Yeah, I think what we see it on the east and the west coast, you see the places where
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  leftist liberal leaning theology and philosophy, rather, is dominant.
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  You see, that's the areas in which those policies get voted in.
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  But in mainstream America, for the most part, I think most Americans are pretty centrist.
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  They may not be Christian, but they don't want a hairy man in a bathroom with their
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  nine-year-old daughter.
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  And so I think Satan really did overplay his hand.
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  I think the left got very overconfident.
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  They spent over a billion dollars and about 100 days or so on a campaign and everything
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  just fell flat, everything they tried fell flat.
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  It just wasn't resonating with people.
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  And I think on the other side of that, too, was the fact that, as you said, there were
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  more positive value shared from the Republican platform.
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  But with that, too, people are looking at the cost of living their state of mind at the
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  time of the last four years.
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  And they're like, we don't want any more of this.
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  And so, you know, as we see in politics, things ebb, things flow, things flip flop.
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  But I think we're picking up, I think a lot of momentum right now.
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  And I think people have seen that this radical, sinful, really, it's not just a leftist,
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  it's just a sinful agenda, really has no place in American society.
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  And this is an opportunity for us as believers, I think, David, to really step into this open
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  door and to use it as an opportunity for the gospel, not for politics, but for the gospel.
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  Yes.
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  And on top of that, I want to just stress the fact that they're not going to stop.
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  This didn't change the worldview of the left and those who are Marxists or believe in
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  socialism or whatever, still supporting abortion, all these different things.
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  It didn't change state laws.
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  It didn't change their worldview, their anti-Christian or the anti-Semitism.
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  We have to understand, we're thankful for the outcome of the election, but we've still
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  got, first of all, a spiritual battle to fight, which is very real.
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  And the enemy that's influencing, I want to say recruiting because we're supposed to
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  make disciples, right?
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  Well, the enemy makes disciples too of the left.
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  But with the darkness that has increased because of the radicalism, Jeff, I agree with
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  you.
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  I think there will be more opportunities to share the gospel because people are looking
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  at the chaos and the nonsense around them.
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  Like, men can be women now or men can have babies that can't believe some people believe
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  that.
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  And so there's some people that who believe this life is all there is, they don't have
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  the hope that we have the hope in Christ and they don't know the Bible.
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  And there are people sincerely looking for answers.
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  Go ahead and share more on that.
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  Now there are.
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  And the sad thing about our culture is, is what you just mentioned.
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  I think Romans 1 versus 18 through 32 really do outline the progress of our, or the digression
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  rather of our culture right now and how, once we reject God, we immediately, God just
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  turns the lights down and people are no longer able to understand true reality.
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  And this is where this whole transgender delusion comes from.
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  Once you reject God, you cannot understand what reality really is.
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  But to kind of transition a little bit on that and pun intended is that, is that there's
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  some good things, David, that are happening in our, in our world and in our country, the
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  things that I'm seeing right now that, that are giving me great encouragement and really
• 20:01
  put wind in the sales of my personal ministry.
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  You mentioned Jack Hibbs.
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  I just spent four days with Jack out in California.
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  We do the happening now.
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  We've been on a Wednesday night, 2,500 people plus showed up, 3,000 were watching online
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  over 370,000 have now watched the video and they're there to learn.
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  How do we take now this time from the election and turn it into an opportunity and then
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  did a podcast with Jack and then Friday and Saturday, we did the first ever that I'm aware
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  of, youth prophecy conference at Chino Hills.
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  And David, there were 950 plus teenagers packing out at that place.
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  They were lined up 50 deep down every aisle asking questions and for two days, they listened
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  without a sound to Bible teaching, Jack spoke on the rapture myself, Todd Hampson.
• 20:52
  We took him through a walk through the chronology of the end times and how they can be a lot
• 20:58
  of tech and they can lamp, like their lamp in these last days.
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  So we're seeing all kinds of great things like that happening.
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  And to me, it's encouraging because it tells me that again, I think people are looking
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  around saying, you know, what is life?
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  What's the meaning of my life?
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  Where am I living?
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  When am I living?
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  And what can I do to make a difference in this world from Jesus?
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  Jeff, you had me at youth prophecy conference.
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  Let's camp out there for another minute or two because if we could see this thing somehow
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  spread or catch on across the country because that that's one demographic that we have
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  not been able to maybe teach, maybe disciple, maybe educate in the biblical worldview.
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  And in other words, just the opposite has been happening the K through 12 in the university
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  system and Hollywood and corporations have been teaching and discipling them.
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  So youth prophecy, how can we get that to expand a little bit?
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  How can we raise more interest about that?
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  Well, first of all, I can't believe you're asking that question because that's the very
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  thing that we've been talking about.
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  How do we do this again?
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  How do we do it in other places?
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  I was a youth pastor for 25 years and one of the things, David, that I discovered about
• 22:15
  teenagers is that they can handle any truth in the Bible that adults can and many times
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  on a better level because they don't a lot of have, sometimes I have the baggage of history
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  with them.
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  They're just kind of blank slate, but they ask perceptive questions.
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  They want to know the truth and they appreciate people who speak directly to them who don't
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  beat around the bush.
• 22:36
  They're not trying to be cool in front of the kids.
• 22:38
  They just want the truth and they want to be loved.
• 22:40
  And so yeah, we were hanging out with these 900 plus kids and they were just so excited
• 22:46
  to learn about this.
• 22:47
  Now we're brainstorming about how do we take this to other cities, other groups that
• 22:52
  may come together and say, look, I want my kids to know about the Bible says about the
• 22:56
  last days and how they can be a light for Jesus.
• 22:58
  So yeah, we're in talks of how to do that and how to put that together other places.
• 23:03
  Jeff, that's just, I think that just made it for me.
• 23:06
  I mean, that was one of the most encouraging things we talked about today.
• 23:10
  And I know we cover a lot of heavy stuff, the attacks on Christians, which is in their
• 23:14
  increasing, not just worldwide, but in America where we wouldn't expect it, we're out with
• 23:18
  our constitution and the First Amendment and religious freedoms.
• 23:21
  But we just started the program talking about why Christian nationalism is offensive,
• 23:26
  but youth prophecy, youth prophecy conference, same thing with just trying to get youth engaged
• 23:32
  in just a biblical worldview.
• 23:35
  I think that's a great conversation we have to continue.
• 23:37
  And please keep me in the loop on anything.
• 23:41
  You're working on or you hear because I think a lot of pastors would be interested in that.
• 23:46
  And I want to ask you a logical question.
• 23:48
  What advice would you give a pastor or youth pastor because so many youth pastors don't
• 23:53
  even have a biblical worldview and they're just entertaining kids instead of teaching them.
• 23:58
  As you said, they can handle it.
• 24:00
  They can take it the tough topics.
• 24:02
  What advice would you give pastors to try to just don't sugarcoat the Bible when you're
• 24:09
  talking to youth?
• 24:10
  Go ahead.
• 24:11
  I would say number one is that pastor, that youth pastor really needs to know what the
• 24:17
  Bible says.
• 24:18
  That's where it all begins.
• 24:19
  And so many are not willing to take the time or to do the effort or to do the Bible study
• 24:25
  to figure out what it says.
• 24:26
  Find trusted voices, trusted books, trusted resources that speak scholarly into these issues
• 24:32
  so that you're not getting a sensationalism or date setting or scaring kids.
• 24:38
  That kind of thing.
• 24:39
  I don't fear at this conference, it was all encouragement, all hope and all truth.
• 24:43
  So know the scriptures then secondly, just start teaching it to them.
• 24:48
  That's what I did when I was a youth pastor.
• 24:49
  I said, all right, let's open the Bible.
• 24:50
  I gave them some studies.
• 24:51
  I wrote studies for them and we just began to study the Bible.
• 24:55
  And what that did was it made help to make disciples instead of just keeping kids off the
• 25:00
  street or entertained it actually let them know I can know God as a 14 year old.
• 25:06
  And I can make a difference in my school as a 16 year old.
• 25:10
  And so why wait?
• 25:12
  And you know, there've been studies that have been done and did a book with Ken Hamber.
• 25:16
  We figured out that we're losing kids by eighth grade by age 13.
• 25:20
  And so we have to begin to equip kids more with biblical truth, apologetics, prophecy,
• 25:25
  history of the Bible, why we believe what we believe so that when they get out into the
• 25:29
  world and they receive all those attacks out there, they can handle it out there because
• 25:34
  they've been equipped in the church and hopefully at home as well.
• 25:37
  Jeff, when was that book you referred to with Ken Hamber?
• 25:40
  I followed AIG, love that ministry, love him and his teachings and writing.
• 25:46
  When was that book?
• 25:47
  Yeah, it's I believe it was 2017 to a mistake.
• 25:50
  It was called Ready to Return, ready to return.
• 25:53
  It's all about how do we get kids back into the church again?
• 25:56
  Was there there was another book called Already Gone?
• 25:59
  Yeah, it's a part of the trilogy that Ken wrote.
• 26:03
  And I helped him write the last one on that.
• 26:05
  So that was just say, all right, that was 2017.
• 26:07
  I'll never forget the word of the year that year was post truth, according to the Oxford
• 26:12
  dictionary.
• 26:13
  So it's interesting now in 2024 going into 2025, at younger and younger ages, kids are
• 26:22
  being reached for what I would say, you know, demonic purposes or the enemy instead of
• 26:27
  the truth in God.
• 26:28
  So we've got a lot, we've got even more work to do now because they start doubting their
• 26:32
  faith earlier on from when they actually make the decision to not follow Christ anymore.
• 26:37
  So Jeff, just your final word of encouragement in the last minute here to our viewing audience,
• 26:41
  please.
• 26:43
  I would say that with the election, with the times that we're living in as dark as it
• 26:47
  is, the brighter, the darker the night, the brighter the light.
• 26:51
  And for me personally, I think this is the most exciting time to be alive.
• 26:55
  And together, we've got to say, now is the time.
• 26:59
  We're in the two minute warning.
• 27:00
  There's no time to waste.
• 27:01
  We got to make sure we live strategic lives of purposeful urgency to give truth, love,
• 27:07
  and hope to this generation.
• 27:09
  Amen, brother.
• 27:11
  Thank you for your perspective.
• 27:12
  For all your podcasts and all the work that you do, you're many, many, many bestselling
• 27:16
  books.
• 27:17
  God bless you, brother.
• 27:18
  We really appreciate your time.
• 27:19
  Thank you.
• 27:20
  Thank you, David.
• 27:21
  God bless.
• 27:22
  All right, guys.
• 27:23
  Again, thank you so much for sharing the podcast.
• 27:25
  Sometimes they put a little disclaimer on some of our, depending on what platform.
• 27:30
  By the way, thank you for letting our Rumble channel grow because of you.
• 27:34
  We appreciate you guys who are following us there.
• 27:36
  God bless you.
• 27:37
  Thanks for your prayers.
• 27:38
  And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.