Latest / Tomorrow's American Catholic Podcast / God’s Love Is Joy with Brother Gregory Cellini, O.S.F.

Transcript

God’s Love Is Joy with Brother Gregory Cellini, O.S.F. · Tomorrow's American Catholic Podcast

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[music]
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SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Tomorrow's American Catholic.
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SPEAKER_02: This is the official podcast of Tomorrow's American Catholic,
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SPEAKER_02: a journal and publishing platform animated by a central question.
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SPEAKER_02: And now on to today's conversation.
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[music]
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SPEAKER_02: Brother Gregory Cellini is a Franciscan brother of Brooklyn whose life purpose,
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SPEAKER_02: rooted in the gospel in a Franciscan charism of continuous conversion,
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SPEAKER_02: is to share the good of God's love and inspire others to live fearlessly
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SPEAKER_02: in this love.
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SPEAKER_02: Brother Greg's primary ministry is at St.
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SPEAKER_02: Francis College in Brooklyn,
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SPEAKER_02: New York,
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SPEAKER_02: where he is the director of the Office of Mission,
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SPEAKER_02: Ministry, and Interfaith Dialogue.
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SPEAKER_02: Brother Greg is the host of Thank God for Monday, a weekly radio talk show.
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SPEAKER_02: Prior to becoming a brother, he had a 29-year career in big pharmaceuticals.
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SPEAKER_02: Brother Greg is author of the book Transform Yourself,
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SPEAKER_02: Transform the World, a Franciscan View of Career.
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SPEAKER_02: He is a new staff member of Franciscan pilgrimage programs,
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SPEAKER_02: where he assists lead pilgrimages to parts of Italy.
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SPEAKER_02: He is also involved in Franciscan Month.
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SPEAKER_02: Which is an effort to have the month of October designated as such.
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SPEAKER_02: So Brother Greg Cellini, thank you so much for joining us today on Tomorrow's American Catholic.
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SPEAKER_02: The honor is all mine to be here.
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SPEAKER_02: Wonderful.
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SPEAKER_02: So we generally like to begin with a brief overview of our guest's spiritual autobiography.
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SPEAKER_02: So if you could just tell us a bit about yourself and Your origin story
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SPEAKER_02: and how you discerned your vocation to the Franciscans,
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SPEAKER_02: and it seems like you had a long and winding path to get there.
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SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
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SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
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SPEAKER_00: I had the great honor of growing up as the son of the late Caesar and the late Lucia Cellini.
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SPEAKER_00: And they were both very, very dedicated to the Catholic faith, as well as the Catholic Church.
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SPEAKER_00: Growing up in Clifton,
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SPEAKER_00: New Jersey,
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SPEAKER_00: they really sacrificed so that not only my four sisters and brothers who are older
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SPEAKER_00: than me,
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SPEAKER_00: but myself,
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SPEAKER_00: We all got the great benefit of Catholic education right from kindergarten
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SPEAKER_00: into high school.
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SPEAKER_00: And then I had the great fortune,
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SPEAKER_00: even though I couldn't afford going to Seton Hall University,
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SPEAKER_00: which was my dream,
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SPEAKER_00: that at 17,
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SPEAKER_00: I started working in big pharmaceuticals and was able to take advantage
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SPEAKER_00: of tuition refund and go at night.
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SPEAKER_00: So you can imagine 16 years of great grammar school, high school education.
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SPEAKER_00: College in a Catholic environment really helped me to solidify my belief in
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SPEAKER_00: the Catholic faith,
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SPEAKER_00: accepting and embracing Jesus Christ as indeed my Lord and Savior,
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SPEAKER_00: learning about the Father, learning about Jesus, learning about the Holy Spirit.
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SPEAKER_00: And so that really equipped me well to To continue on into my 20s after Seton Hall,
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SPEAKER_00: I was working, as I said, in big pharmaceuticals.
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SPEAKER_00: I started out in the finance group and I was a certified public accountant for many, many years.
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SPEAKER_00: I was in the finance function until about the last five years of my career at 2001
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SPEAKER_00: to 2006 when I was in the training and staff development organization and What
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SPEAKER_00: a great learning experience.
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SPEAKER_00: They say teaching is a learning experience.
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SPEAKER_00: And working and coaching and educating others had to be better on their job.
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SPEAKER_00: It was a great help to me.
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SPEAKER_00: One of the classes that really helped my teaching was of presentation skills.
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SPEAKER_00: Because that really helped me to learn more how to present and learn better how to present.
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SPEAKER_00: And that, of course, helped me when in 2006, the organization took a turn and downsized me.
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SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty much my professional career in pharmaceuticals, 77 through 06.
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SPEAKER_00: But it's very interesting because during my time in pharma,
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SPEAKER_00: late 80s, early 90s, My faith became stronger and stronger.
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SPEAKER_00: But then during that period of time,
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SPEAKER_00: what I like to call these disordered lusts,
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SPEAKER_00: if you will,
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SPEAKER_00: there are people who think lust only pertains to physical pleasure,
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SPEAKER_00: but things like money and cars and power.
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SPEAKER_00: And I got sidetracked and no question about it.
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SPEAKER_00: And it became all about me, me, me, I, I, I.
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SPEAKER_00: Versus we and are, certainly.
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SPEAKER_00: But I could sense by the year 2001 and certainly when 9-11 happened,
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SPEAKER_00: living in East Rutherford,
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SPEAKER_00: New Jersey, right across the river, that had a very significant impact on me.
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SPEAKER_00: Because it really forced me to start to think, okay, who am I?
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SPEAKER_00: Why am I here?
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SPEAKER_00: What is this all about?
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SPEAKER_00: What is mine still to do?
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SPEAKER_00: And the next couple of years were really telling.
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SPEAKER_00: I met a wonderful Monsignor, Monsignor Paul Bochicchio from a local parish, joined his parish.
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SPEAKER_00: And more and more,
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SPEAKER_00: he got me involved with the young adult group,
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SPEAKER_00: trips to Canada and other type service trips.
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SPEAKER_00: And I could sense that my heart was moving into a different direction.
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SPEAKER_00: This was the start of conversion for me.
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SPEAKER_00: And really my kissing the leper moment was May 25, 2005.
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SPEAKER_00: My management was, I was working for people in England at the time.
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SPEAKER_00: And they came in that morning and expressed really,
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SPEAKER_00: really uncertainty and really disappointed in how I was trying to contribute to
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SPEAKER_00: the organization.
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SPEAKER_00: And we were like oil and water,
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SPEAKER_00: certainly our philosophies, our Or just mindsets were really polar opposites.
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SPEAKER_00: And so I had a feeling that I was going to be downsized.
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SPEAKER_00: I had a very good record, fortunately, there.
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SPEAKER_00: And I was in my 40s at that time.
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SPEAKER_00: So at that time, they just couldn't throw me out.
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SPEAKER_00: But I had a sense they were going to try to build a case against me, which they did.
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SPEAKER_00: And so that whole year was very interesting from starting with May of 2005.
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SPEAKER_00: But the organization, they were kind to me.
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SPEAKER_00: They treated me very well.
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SPEAKER_00: And they provided coaching.
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SPEAKER_00: They provided coaching from Gallup.
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SPEAKER_00: You probably heard Gallup, the polling people, but yet they have a coaching business.
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SPEAKER_00: And my first lesson or my first session with my coach, this was virtual.
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SPEAKER_00: She was in Omaha, Nebraska.
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SPEAKER_00: I had to take the StrengthFinders.
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SPEAKER_00: And my coach, Rosemary, gets on the phone and said, Greg, something's very wrong here.
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SPEAKER_00: You know, your strengths are much more geared to religious life than the corporate life.
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SPEAKER_00: You know, do you think you might have a vocation?
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SPEAKER_00: So, of course, I just sat there.
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SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what the heck to say.
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SPEAKER_00: So she said, I'm going to give you three assignments.
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SPEAKER_00: One of them is going to be I want you to go visit three religious congregations,
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SPEAKER_00: contact their vocation directors, get out there.
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SPEAKER_00: See what's there, et cetera, et cetera.
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SPEAKER_00: So I did go visit a couple.
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SPEAKER_00: I went to two and nothing really resonated.
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SPEAKER_00: The third, I went to see the Franciscan Brothers of Brooklyn.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'll never forget,
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SPEAKER_00: I got home about 10 o'clock from my meeting with the vocation director in Queens.
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SPEAKER_00: And I called my mother.
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SPEAKER_00: I said, Mom, I said, you know, something's really wrong.
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SPEAKER_00: It's very strange.
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SPEAKER_00: I said, this felt so right, so natural today.
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SPEAKER_00: So that was late October.
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SPEAKER_00: One thing led to another December.
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SPEAKER_00: I went to see the head of formation.
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SPEAKER_00: In January, I filed an application because I knew the downsizing was coming.
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SPEAKER_00: It did come in May.
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SPEAKER_00: And then May of 06.
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SPEAKER_00: And then September, I got a nice little sabbatical for a couple of months.
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SPEAKER_00: And then September 1st, 06, I started as a candidate with the brothers.
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SPEAKER_00: And here I am 20 years later.
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SPEAKER_00: So it's an amazing story.
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SPEAKER_00: But the Holy Spirit really had her hand all over this.
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SPEAKER_00: The irony that I didn't share, Rosemary was one of 18 Gallup coaches I could have gotten.
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SPEAKER_00: And she shared with me years later.
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SPEAKER_00: She said, you know, Greg, I'm one of 18 coaches.
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SPEAKER_00: But she shared that she was a secular Franciscan.
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SPEAKER_00: And she was actually a Franciscan novice in the 60s.
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SPEAKER_00: Wow.
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SPEAKER_00: And so she had no doubt that had she gotten another coach,
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SPEAKER_00: they would not have been able to bring to the table,
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SPEAKER_00: you know, what she was able to bring to the table.
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SPEAKER_00: So there's no doubt the Holy Spirit wanted me to become a Franciscan brother of Brooke.
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SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's amazing.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love how you said my heart was moving in a different direction.
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SPEAKER_02: You were kind of open to that discernment.
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SPEAKER_02: And I liked what you said about we can have lust for power, lust for all these other things.
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SPEAKER_02: And being aware of that,
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SPEAKER_02: I was just reading,
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SPEAKER_02: I think it was Brother Wayne Teasdale talking about moving from being the idea
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SPEAKER_02: of happiness is something I experience alone to happiness is something I have
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SPEAKER_02: to experience in relationship.
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SPEAKER_02: It seems like you.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
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SPEAKER_00: And something very interesting,
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SPEAKER_00: this is all things I've learned after becoming a Franciscan brother is Francis,
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SPEAKER_00: what was sweet to him became sour and sour became sweet.
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SPEAKER_00: Well, naturally, our parent company was in Switzerland.
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SPEAKER_00: We flew business class.
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SPEAKER_00: You'd stay in nice hotels, these nice dinners, et cetera.
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SPEAKER_00: And all this was very sweet.
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SPEAKER_00: But during that period of time,
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SPEAKER_00: 2003, four, five, They didn't taste as sweet as they were, certainly.
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SPEAKER_00: And it was going to sea and doing a service trip or something like that.
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SPEAKER_00: That's where my heart really was going to.
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SPEAKER_00: So what was sour became sweet and vice versa.
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SPEAKER_00: Paradox of the gospel.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
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SPEAKER_02: Maybe you could follow up, Greg,
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SPEAKER_02: with just a little bit about what felt so natural with the Franciscans with
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SPEAKER_02: that particular charism.
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SPEAKER_02: Is there anything that in the Franciscan life really jumped out to you right away
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SPEAKER_02: and you said, I feel like I'm at home spiritually?
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SPEAKER_00: Just meeting the brothers,
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SPEAKER_00: I went to the high school that we have there in Queens,
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SPEAKER_00: St. Francis Territory School.
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SPEAKER_00: And the brothers, like many orders, they live above the school.
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SPEAKER_00: And so I met that first night, about 15 or 20 of them.
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SPEAKER_00: And I could sense the simplicity.
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SPEAKER_00: I could sense the joy.
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SPEAKER_00: And I still remember one of the brothers,
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SPEAKER_00: it was a Saturday night, and he was carrying some cinnamon raisin toast.
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SPEAKER_00: And he said, I'm not so hungry.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to have a light dinner.
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SPEAKER_00: I said, this is my favorite toast.
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SPEAKER_00: And it was just a joy.
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SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because one of the things I've gotten to know over
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SPEAKER_00: the decades is that I have,
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SPEAKER_00: especially for a man,
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SPEAKER_00: and I hate to generalize, but I have a lower than average, much lower than IQ.
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SPEAKER_00: So I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.
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SPEAKER_00: But my EQ, my emotional quotient is much higher than most men.
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SPEAKER_00: I like to think,
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SPEAKER_00: and what I've learned is that the Jesuits certainly,
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SPEAKER_00: and no disrespect to anybody,
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SPEAKER_00: but they operate from the mind,
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SPEAKER_00: the Dominicans from the mouth, but the Franciscans from the heart.
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SPEAKER_00: Really, that heart-centered life really resonated.
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SPEAKER_02: Maybe we can go into a bit how you began to find your way into the Franciscan order
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SPEAKER_02: and some of your perhaps early responsibilities in religious life.
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SPEAKER_02: I know now you're serving as the director of the Office for Mission Ministry
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SPEAKER_02: and Interfaith Dialogue, which we'd love to hear more about.
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SPEAKER_02: But what were some of the early elements of the life as you kind of adjusted to it?
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SPEAKER_02: And what was the transition like from the secular world for you?
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SPEAKER_00: Yes, I had lived alone for many years in East Rutherford, New Jersey.
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SPEAKER_00: I had purchased a small condo.
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SPEAKER_00: Actually, my bank owned it.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: I didn't, certainly.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: But in any event,
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SPEAKER_00: living alone and then going into community,
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SPEAKER_00: living with five or six other brothers that first year of Canada,
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SPEAKER_00: that was a great shift.
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SPEAKER_00: But as far as ministry goes,
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SPEAKER_00: that first year of They didn't have room in any of the schools or position open.
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SPEAKER_00: I understood that.
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SPEAKER_00: And so for nine months, I worked in a parish where I was doing some human resources.
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SPEAKER_00: I actually was doing a pastoral study.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: I should back up a second and share with you.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: The day I walked out of Big Pharma after 29 years,
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SPEAKER_00: I remember looking back when I got outside to the building And I said,
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SPEAKER_00: you know, I said, it's a shame.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm never going to use any of these skills where I'm going, certainly in religious life.
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SPEAKER_00: I haven't spent the day not using those skills.
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SPEAKER_00: So sure enough,
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SPEAKER_00: what happens is a new pastor had come into the St.
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SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth Church in New York, Melville, Long Island.
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SPEAKER_00: And he needed someone to do kind of a study of how the power is doing,
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SPEAKER_00: what's going well, where the opportunities are improving, etc.
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SPEAKER_00: So I had done this type of work in Big Farmer.
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SPEAKER_00: So they hired me and I undertook this pastoral study.
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SPEAKER_00: So I got people from all over the parish would come in.
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SPEAKER_00: I would interview them singly.
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SPEAKER_00: I would interview them in groups.
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SPEAKER_00: And it was a tremendous learning experience for me,
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SPEAKER_00: but it was helpful for the parish as well,
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SPEAKER_00: because we were able to set a vision,
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SPEAKER_00: goals, things of that nature, mission for the next five to 10 years.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'm happy to say 20 years later, that parish is flourishing.
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SPEAKER_00: And even though the same pastor is not there,
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SPEAKER_00: People say that study was instrumental in the parish still to this day,
15:20
SPEAKER_00: doing very, very well.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: So that was the first year.
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SPEAKER_00: The second year of candidacy,
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SPEAKER_00: and this order is so smart,
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SPEAKER_00: my brothers of Brooklyn,
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SPEAKER_00: they had a year in Long Island for me, and then they had a year in Brooklyn.
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SPEAKER_00: And my goodness, what a difference, what a cultural shock that was.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Brooklyn is just so beautiful.
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SPEAKER_00: But I worked for the school's office for nine months.
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SPEAKER_00: And that was a great experience helping out with some of the administration of some
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SPEAKER_00: of these grammar schools.
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SPEAKER_00: So that was the two years of candidacy.
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SPEAKER_00: Of course, novitiate, the year of intense self-reflection and prayer.
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SPEAKER_00: And I tell people it wasn't a year that was fun,
16:00
SPEAKER_00: but it was the most valuable year of my life
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SPEAKER_00: because I didn't realize I had absorbed,
16:06
SPEAKER_00: I had taken on a lot of what I like to call crapolas.
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SPEAKER_00: A lot of baggage.
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SPEAKER_00: And the brothers saw this.
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SPEAKER_00: And they said, unless this guy gets rid of this baggage, we can't move him on.
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SPEAKER_00: We're going to have to send him home.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: So my novice director was so wonderful, Brother Richard.
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SPEAKER_00: He had me spend a lot of time in front of that blessed sacrament.
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SPEAKER_00: Really a lot of time there.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: And I was able to melt this hatred because,
16:34
SPEAKER_00: unfortunately,
16:35
SPEAKER_00: hatred had built up into forgiveness and into joy,
16:39
SPEAKER_00: certainly, during that time in front of it.
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SPEAKER_00: And even to this day at school or here in the Friars, the adoration is so important.
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SPEAKER_00: So then I'm a novice.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: I take my first vows.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: And that's when I became affiliated with the college.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: Hard time.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: I was working in our business office.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: And it was very helpful to see the operation of our business office,
17:01
SPEAKER_00: how our congregation actually ran.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: That was very, very inspiring and very helpful.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: And then 2015, the college hired me full time.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: I was in student affairs, helping with career coaching for students, doing other things.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: And then about 2022,
17:21
SPEAKER_00: I think it was,
17:22
SPEAKER_00: somebody who was the director, Dr.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Alexandra Eggler,
17:26
SPEAKER_00: an amazing,
17:27
SPEAKER_00: amazing person,
17:28
SPEAKER_00: she left suddenly to become the president of Dominica Academy,
17:31
SPEAKER_00: a very prestigious school director.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: In New York City,
17:34
SPEAKER_00: in Manhattan,
17:35
SPEAKER_00: and they needed someone quickly,
17:37
SPEAKER_00: and so I said,
17:38
SPEAKER_00: I'll be happy to go over into this group,
17:41
SPEAKER_00: and it's,
17:41
SPEAKER_00: every day is a learning experience, a long,
17:43
SPEAKER_00: big learning curve to be a mission officer,
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SPEAKER_00: but thanks be to God,
17:48
SPEAKER_00: one day at a time,
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SPEAKER_00: and it's really,
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SPEAKER_00: I love the work,
17:52
SPEAKER_00: because it's not,
17:53
SPEAKER_00: it's really ministry, but a The students, the faculty, staff, administration.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Mission is so important.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: We have a president, Tim Ciceri, at the college.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Mission is critical to the rest of the college, certainly.
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SPEAKER_00: So it's really a joy.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: So those are some of the works,
18:11
SPEAKER_00: you know, some of the ministries that I've been involved with, certainly, so.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was just thinking when you were talking about the mission and you being
18:19
SPEAKER_01: a mission officer and just imagine what would have happened if you were
18:23
SPEAKER_01: the mission officer for the early Franciscans just starting out.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Talk about a convoluted group of people.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: But you really sort of bought in that the rich ministry of the Franciscans in
18:35
SPEAKER_01: that they're not just one little order of this.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: It is such a vast order of so many different And,
18:43
SPEAKER_01: you know,
18:43
SPEAKER_01: the Franciscan intellectual tradition,
18:46
SPEAKER_01: the Franciscan justice tradition, all of that coming together.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: So talk about that a little bit, that whole Franciscan, how you fit into it, how it came about.
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SPEAKER_00: It's so wonderful, really,
18:59
SPEAKER_00: because when I first came here in 2006,
19:02
SPEAKER_00: the majority of the brothers,
19:04
SPEAKER_00: actually some of them retired,
19:06
SPEAKER_00: but the others were in our great schools, St.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Anthony's High School in Long Island,
19:11
SPEAKER_00: the prep in Queens, and St. Francis College in Brooklyn.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: But I noticed as time has gone on, the brothers have gotten involved in prison ministry.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: In working with those who are up for in soup kitchens,
19:28
SPEAKER_00: in a school for those who are getting GED degrees and things of that nature.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: And what I've really seen over the 20 years,
19:36
SPEAKER_00: and we're a fairly small congregation,
19:38
SPEAKER_00: if you will, but the OFMs, the Conventionals, the Capuchins, I've really seen them.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Embrace social justice.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: I've seen them embrace things beyond the classroom, which is really, really wonderful.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: And today,
19:55
SPEAKER_00: anybody who joins any Franciscan order is I really sense that we want them
20:03
SPEAKER_00: to utilize their skill.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: We want them to really utilize the God-given gifts, certainly.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Whether that's in a classroom, in a soup kitchen, wherever that is, certainly.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Because one of the things I believe religious life has learned the Franciscans,
20:18
SPEAKER_00: the Dominicans, et cetera, over the last several years, we are not what we do.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: We are who we are.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: And that's so important.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: I know myself,
20:28
SPEAKER_00: my identity was really caught up as how I was doing in the workplace and big pharma.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Things were going well.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: I felt great.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Things were not going well.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: I felt terrible.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: And for the majority of my career, sadly, they weren't going well.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: And I felt terrible.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: Why?
20:46
SPEAKER_00: It all makes sense afterwards.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: And we can always analyze the 30 years before better than the 30 years to come.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: I was in a wrong place.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: And that was my choosing, certainly.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: But indeed, God has me now where he wants me.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: And the Holy Spirit, she's on my back every day, just guiding me.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: So I want to follow up on that a little bit.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: I believe it was 2019,
21:08
SPEAKER_01: the Franciscan Federation,
21:10
SPEAKER_01: which I think your community is a member of, the Franciscan
21:13
SPEAKER_00: Federation.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: You were actually one of the first non- Sisters group to join,
21:19
SPEAKER_01: if I'm not mistaken,
21:20
SPEAKER_01: because the Federation was initially started as a coalition of sisters.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: And then they expanded about 10 years later.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: And I think your community was- I didn't
21:30
SPEAKER_00: realize that.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one of the first.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: But in 2019,
21:34
SPEAKER_01: they had this gathering or they started this process
21:37
SPEAKER_01: about how they transformed themselves.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: Not about how they transformed the world, how they transformed themselves.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: Part of it centered around the understanding that we're getting old.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: And people aren't joining.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: And so how do we, where do we go from here?
21:51
SPEAKER_01: And they invited me,
21:52
SPEAKER_01: Brian McLaren,
21:54
SPEAKER_01: and Kerry Robinson,
21:55
SPEAKER_01: who you probably know from Kerry's the president of Catholic Charities right now.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: They invited,
22:01
SPEAKER_01: and Sister Margaret Carney invited,
22:02
SPEAKER_01: the four of us sat down for a year talking and helping
22:06
SPEAKER_01: the Franciscan Federation reimagine.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: And out of that,
22:09
SPEAKER_01: we came up with what Brian and I described in an article shortly after,
22:14
SPEAKER_01: a Franciscan Renaissance.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: So I know,
22:18
SPEAKER_01: you know,
22:19
SPEAKER_01: we always ask our guests about their vision of the Catholic Church going forward.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to jump the gun on that one and ask to share your vision of
22:28
SPEAKER_01: the whole Franciscan movement and where you see that going.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for that, because, again, I'm a newbie here.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, 20 years is a tick on the clock of 800, certainly.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: But what I see...
22:44
SPEAKER_00: is tremendous momentum that the Franciscans are bringing to the Catholic Church and
22:51
SPEAKER_00: to the world.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: There's no doubt in my mind,
22:54
SPEAKER_00: people like the two of you, I hope you realize, are instrumental in this movement.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: I've had students come up to me at St.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Francis College and say, Greg,
23:05
SPEAKER_00: the Franciscan way of life is more relevant and more needed Today in 2026,
23:12
SPEAKER_00: then it was in 1226.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: I have to tell you,
23:16
SPEAKER_00: and I've written about this,
23:17
SPEAKER_00: the first student who told me this, I dismissed immediately.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: I said, how could it be more relevant than when Francis was physically here?
23:26
SPEAKER_00: But in retrospect and thinking about this, it indeed is.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: We need the kindness.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: We need the peace prayer, even though Francis didn't write it, certainly it's attributed to him.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: However, we need this prayer more today than we've had ever in the history of mankind.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: Now, maybe that sounds like a stupid statement.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, if you feel that way, but this is what I believe.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: The other part of it is,
23:51
SPEAKER_01: is in this world that we're living in today,
23:53
SPEAKER_01: in this understanding of who we are in relationship to each other,
23:57
SPEAKER_01: the story that I think is the most relevant story And from St.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Francis is his encounter with the Sultan al-Kamil.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: And so, and you know, I've,
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I've asked a number of people,
24:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm having a conversation with a Muslim writer that I know.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: And I said, we need to write an article and ask the question, where is St. Francis today?
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Where is the Sultan al-Kamil today?
24:19
SPEAKER_01: So share a little bit about that story,
24:21
SPEAKER_01: what it means to you and who you are and what that can mean to the rest of
24:25
SPEAKER_01: the world.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: If I could just add to that quickly, Greg,
24:29
SPEAKER_02: just parts of your biography,
24:30
SPEAKER_02: just when you were talking about how 9-11 was such a transformative moment,
24:33
SPEAKER_02: that was kind of a moment for,
24:35
SPEAKER_02: there was a great opportunity,
24:36
SPEAKER_02: sometimes squandered, sometimes embraced for interspiritual communion.
24:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm wondering if that resonated with you and also just your work at the Office
24:44
SPEAKER_02: of Mission Ministry and Interfaith Dialogue.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we could.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And I'd like to, if you don't mind, I'd like to go back to 9-11-2001.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: We were living, as I said, very, very close to New York City.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: We could see in our big farm, a largest building, the smoke, etc.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: But that Tuesday night, you may recall, it was an absolutely gorgeous night.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: And ironically, Tuesday night was my favorite night at...
25:13
SPEAKER_00: The Church of Mount Virgin,
25:14
SPEAKER_00: where I was a parishioner,
25:16
SPEAKER_00: because it was holy hour, it was mass, and it was novena to St. Jude.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: So I got there at six o'clock,
25:24
SPEAKER_00: as I usually did, certainly, and we spent the hour in quiet, and then we had mass.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: And the Monsignor Bochicchio,
25:32
SPEAKER_00: this person who I would not be a Franciscan brother today without,
25:37
SPEAKER_00: reads the gospel, and he preaches about Christ.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Forgiveness.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: And I have to tell you, I did everything in my power not to run up and want to strangle him.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Because the last thing in my mind and heart that night at 715 on that grave,
25:57
SPEAKER_00: grave night was forgiveness.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: Of course, he was right.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: Of course, it was wonderful that he was telling about this.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: But that certainly wasn't on my radar.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: But indeed,
26:07
SPEAKER_00: that was really very,
26:09
SPEAKER_00: very important because St. Francis is the champion of interreligious dialogue.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that we're trying to do at the college and elsewhere
26:21
SPEAKER_00: with Franciscan Month, et cetera, is to get Francis out of the birdbath.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Everybody knows he loved animals, but he's so, so much more than that.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: And this encounter with the sultan,
26:35
SPEAKER_00: It's just to read it,
26:37
SPEAKER_00: the courage,
26:38
SPEAKER_00: the perseverance that Francis had to make this journey to say,
26:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't care if I don't come back from this.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: It's in my heart.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: I need to go have, I need to embrace brother in doing this.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's so ironic you ask about this.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: We have a beautiful gallery in our St.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Francis Hall We took our mission statement and we divided it into little snippets,
27:07
SPEAKER_00: little segments, if you will, by some of the phrases.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: And one of them talks about ethical leadership.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: And who do we have there, Francis and the sultan?
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Two really great ethical leaders when we step back and think about it.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: The fact that they would get together,
27:27
SPEAKER_00: see one another, dialogue, and we have a picture of them embracing one another.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: It's so important.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: And St. Francis College,
27:34
SPEAKER_00: like so many schools in the five boroughs and all over the United States,
27:40
SPEAKER_00: really, has become one of interfaith.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's so wonderful.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: We have 35 faith affiliations, just the students alone.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: And many of our students fall into one of the top five Muslim,
27:54
SPEAKER_00: Catholic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm forgetting one, certainly, but the top five, certainly.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: And it's so great.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: And Franciscan Month,
28:04
SPEAKER_00: as an example,
28:05
SPEAKER_00: we start with an interfaith prayer service,
28:08
SPEAKER_00: and we end the month with an interfaith appreciation breakfast.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: That's modeling what Francis was all about.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: That's what I love so much about Francis.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: He didn't really care in my eyes what faith you were.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: He didn't care what gender you were.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: He didn't care what race you were.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: He just loved you as brother and sister.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: That's what we need today.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: If we can get back to that model, everything will be okay.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: And it's more than okay.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: I have a friend,
28:39
SPEAKER_01: a Franciscan friar who I think you also know,
28:41
SPEAKER_01: so I won't embarrass him by saying his name,
28:43
SPEAKER_01: but he said to me that he believes his mission is to go around to all the statues
28:48
SPEAKER_01: of St. Francis and knock the bird off of him.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: And again,
28:56
SPEAKER_01: not because of,
28:57
SPEAKER_01: you know, but just because it gives a completely wrong image of who St. Francis is.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had these two wonderful parents.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: We had this humble home.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that mom did when they built the garage 1964,
29:10
SPEAKER_00: they put a real little grotto space and they put Francis there and they had
29:16
SPEAKER_00: the birdbath there.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: That's what we relate to.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't until becoming a brother that I really discovered the true Francis story.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one of the reasons I'm so passionate about this conversion story.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: For us as third order regular Franciscan brothers of Brooklyn,
29:34
SPEAKER_00: continuous conversion is our charism.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: That really is very close.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: That's one of the reasons I chose this Franciscan order,
29:42
SPEAKER_00: because to me, Getting up every day and saying, okay, how can I do better today?
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Until now, I've done nothing or very little.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: That really just resonates with me.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: What's the daily life like there in your community,
29:57
SPEAKER_02: Greg, in terms of that continuous conversion?
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Can you talk a bit about just the order of prayer or the order of how that counts?
30:04
SPEAKER_02: And that might lead us into kind of the work-life thing we want to discuss, but just briefly.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: The Harariam here is so wonderful.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: I live with four other brothers.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: Just they're great.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: And also our treasurer general visits a couple of days a week.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: So he's here half the time.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: But I'm in a morning person.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: I know Patrick, I'm Michael.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you, but I know Patrick's a morning person.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: So the alarm rings early every other day because one of my disorder lusts is food.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: I've got to get down to our gym in the basement and work out a little bit.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: But what really is special about that is about five years ago,
30:40
SPEAKER_00: We put a crucifix there, and it becomes more spiritual exercise than anything.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: When I'm jumping rope, or especially on the elliptical, I can just gaze into Jesus's eyes.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: But after that, having some personal prayer, and then a little breakfast, but then we pray.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm so grateful.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: We pray 7.15 every morning,
31:02
SPEAKER_00: pray the Liturgy of the Hours,
31:05
SPEAKER_00: and then I'm usually off to the college to get there about 8 or 8.30.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Spend the day there.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: And every day is different there.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: When you're dealing with thousands of college students,
31:14
SPEAKER_00: you never know from one day to the next, certainly.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: But then 5.45,
31:18
SPEAKER_00: 5 o'clock,
31:19
SPEAKER_00: we try to get home or about 5.30,
31:21
SPEAKER_00: have some recreation together, prayer, evening prayer, 5.45.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: But I must tell you,
31:27
SPEAKER_00: one of the great joys for me to have dinner with other people,
31:31
SPEAKER_00: when you live alone,
31:33
SPEAKER_00: you're constantly eating alone or in front of the television, not healthy at all.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: But that six o'clock meal with each other, very, very beautiful.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's just so great to be able to share sitting down amongst the table,
31:49
SPEAKER_00: having a simple dinner, certainly.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: And then I do,
31:51
SPEAKER_00: since I get up early,
31:52
SPEAKER_00: I do try to get to sleep earlier,
31:55
SPEAKER_00: but that's the Pattern,
31:57
SPEAKER_00: if you will,
31:57
SPEAKER_00: but the personal, also,
32:00
SPEAKER_00: I must tell you at the college,
32:02
SPEAKER_00: more and more students are asking about OCIA,
32:06
SPEAKER_00: formerly RCIA,
32:08
SPEAKER_00: and I've had students come in already this semester,
32:12
SPEAKER_00: they want exposition of the Eucharist.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: And so it's so wonderful.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: A student comes in, okay,
32:19
SPEAKER_00: let's go spend a half hour in front of the exposed and have eucharistic adoration.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's just so beautiful.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: So to be able to interwove those into the day is wonderful.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: That's wonderful.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: That's another example of teaching becoming a learning experience when
32:34
SPEAKER_02: the student is coming to lead you out of the office.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: I learn so much more from these students than they've, I can tell you that.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: We spoke with a Dominican sister,
32:45
SPEAKER_02: Annie Killian,
32:46
SPEAKER_02: who's out in South Bend,
32:47
SPEAKER_02: and she said the very same thing about the 6 p.m. dinner with her community.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: She looks forward to having that chance to not just break bread together,
32:54
SPEAKER_02: but talk about what you encounter throughout the day and help each other along.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: So it's a wonderful image.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: I always find it fascinating to hear people's stories.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: It's why I'm so excited about the project we're all working on together,
33:06
SPEAKER_01: the storytelling project.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: Share a little bit about how you feel about People telling their stories,
33:12
SPEAKER_01: how that can help bring us together and create a new world for all of us.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Patrick, for sharing that.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: What a great project this is,
33:22
SPEAKER_00: because to me,
33:24
SPEAKER_00: I've learned the hard way over the years,
33:27
SPEAKER_00: making all presentations and the data and facts and all.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: People love stories.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: They love to hear stories, but they love to share their story.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: And that's why this is so important,
33:41
SPEAKER_00: is that when people share their story,
33:44
SPEAKER_00: other people hear it and they say, you know what?
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Some of my story is similar.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: We're not so different after all.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: We've got a lot more similarities.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: And this is one of the things about our five big religions at the college.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: And I think I forgot Buddhist or Hindu before,
34:02
SPEAKER_00: but the Christian Catholic, the Muslim, the Buddhist, the Hindu, the Jewish.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: There's more similarities than there are differences.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: And if we can just articulate that and share this and hear from one another...
34:17
SPEAKER_00: It's just so important.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: So amazing.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I'm encouraging so many people share the stories.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, Francis is one of the reasons I love Francis so much.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, he had two options.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: He could hold on to the good or he could share the good.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: He shared the good.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: And this is what boldly Patrick, kudos to you and to Michael.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: This is what you're trying to do to encourage people to share the good.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: I have this habit of when I meet people,
34:46
SPEAKER_01: you know,
34:46
SPEAKER_01: you're at an event,
34:48
SPEAKER_01: a wedding or some event,
34:50
SPEAKER_01: you're seated at a table with people you don't really know at all, you've never met.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: And so we sit down and, you know, you do a little bit of the chit chat.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: Hi, where are you from?
34:59
SPEAKER_01: And then I'll ask people a shirt or a love story.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh!
35:04
SPEAKER_01: And I have to tell you, first of all, I have never had a single person say no.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: People love to share their love stories.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: The really interesting part of those, you know, mostly these are couples.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: And so when you hear both sides of the love story, sometimes you hear a whole different story.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: But I don't think we do enough of sharing our stories.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: It really is sharing from the heart.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: And we need so much more in our colleges,
35:31
SPEAKER_00: our cities, our states, our world to really allow people.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: It's OK. What are you thinking?
35:38
SPEAKER_00: How are you feeling?
35:39
SPEAKER_00: Share what's in your heart.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: I have a quick funny story if you'd like.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: I can share with you.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: Someone came in when I was career coaching.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: Didn't have an appointment or anything.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: She just kind of walked in.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: And I said to her, you know, can I help you at all?
35:57
SPEAKER_00: And she kind of sat there.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: And so I kind of tried to prod a little bit more.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: I says, you know, there's something wrong.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: Can I help you?
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Still nothing.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: And so I asked that infamous question.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: I said, what's in your heart?
36:15
SPEAKER_00: What's in your heart?
36:17
SPEAKER_00: A box of tissues later, we were able to get to the core of what she was there.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: But it gave her permission to cry in front of me.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: It gave her permission to really express how she was feeling and then
36:31
SPEAKER_00: to articulate what was in her heart.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: That to me is the key question.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: What's in your heart?
36:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: And it gets back to what Claire actually initially said,
36:40
SPEAKER_01: I believe,
36:41
SPEAKER_01: but Francis also was the whole understanding of when I look at you,
36:45
SPEAKER_01: I should see Christ.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: And when you look at me, you should see Christ.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm not seeing Christ in you and you're not seeing Christ in me.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: And, but more importantly,
36:54
SPEAKER_01: as Francis said,
36:56
SPEAKER_01: if I see the Christ in you,
36:58
SPEAKER_01: if I see the person that's hungry, I see the crucified Christ in that person.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: So if we start looking at each other, And,
37:05
SPEAKER_01: you know,
37:06
SPEAKER_01: however we define the Christ and start seeing that Christ in each other,
37:10
SPEAKER_01: which is what Francis and the Sultan saw in each other.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's such a beautiful point, Patrick.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: They truly saw the Christ in one another.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: They saw the good in one another.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: And imagine if we could get to a world where we could look for the good in one another.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, my goodness.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: We could then accomplish anything else.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Bring heaven right down here to earth.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: Which is another point, the understanding that Jesus didn't come to help us get to heaven.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: Jesus came to teach us how to create heaven here on earth.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: No question about it.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't agree more.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: That is so beautiful.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: What did the angels say?
37:52
SPEAKER_00: Nothing is impossible with God.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: Why can't we do that here?
37:57
SPEAKER_02: What you were both discussing made me think.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: I've been reading a little bit about Henry Nouwen this week because it was
38:01
SPEAKER_02: the anniversary of his passing.
38:05
SPEAKER_02: This book of memories of him,
38:06
SPEAKER_02: some people reminisce about how he wanted to get to that heart level so quickly
38:11
SPEAKER_02: that he would bypass.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: That's a lot of the traditional back and forth and just kind of want to hear what's
38:16
SPEAKER_02: on people's hearts.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: And I think that I like that sense of urgency about that comes through
38:19
SPEAKER_02: in his writing and Greg, what you were describing that sense.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: And it came through for me in your piece for the St.
38:24
SPEAKER_02: Anthony messenger that you wrote a couple of years ago about this moment
38:26
SPEAKER_02: of polarization, getting through to people's hearts on a heart to heart.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: It gets back to the peace prayer, seeking first to understand and then be understood.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: It's all right there.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: It really is.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: It's not rocket science.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: It's not.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: And it's right there.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: We don't need to interpret it deeply theologically because it's fairly simple
38:50
SPEAKER_01: and straightforward.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: What's the message of Jesus?
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: No question about it.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: St. Francis isn't saying anything different than the message of Jesus.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: And it was very simple, straightforward.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, we turned it into this deep theological that only brilliant people could understand.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: And I think you asked me before if it's okay to go back there a bit about the future
39:18
SPEAKER_00: of the church, if you will.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: To me, that's one of the keys.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: We need to have a church that's simple, that's beautiful in its simplicity.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: But all of the doctrine and all of this fluffy language at all that 99
39:35
SPEAKER_00: and three quarters percent of the world like me can't understand.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: Let's get rid of all that.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Let's make this very, very simple.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: I asked somebody or somebody asked me, why is the world so complicated today?
39:49
SPEAKER_00: And I have to say, I used to do a lot to complicate the world.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: And I think back, why did I do that?
39:55
SPEAKER_00: Well, I wanted to show how smart I was, how much I was, et cetera, et cetera.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: And then it hit me, you dummy.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Stop doing that.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: That's not doing anybody any good.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: That's putting yourself out there.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Put others first.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: Get things simple.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: Everybody can understand much better.
40:13
SPEAKER_02: You hit on a powerful temptation that want to be needed is I think it's
40:17
SPEAKER_02: a true instinctual calling and it's valid,
40:19
SPEAKER_02: but there's a way we have to understand that.
40:22
SPEAKER_02: Our good works might just be seen by God.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: They might not,
40:24
SPEAKER_02: you know,
40:25
SPEAKER_02: we might be doing it without a knowledge of the end or how it's going to come out.
40:28
SPEAKER_02: So that's a very important distinction you just made.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no question.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: Again,
40:31
SPEAKER_00: this was something I learned the hard way because when I was let go from Big Pharma,
40:37
SPEAKER_00: I said, they're going to see, they're going to see what happens without me.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: They're going to see how much they need me.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: And what happened?
40:44
SPEAKER_00: They had record sales and profits the next year.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Was that a great lesson in humility?
40:51
SPEAKER_00: That is a sense of humor.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: Isn't it great in very simple terms?
40:56
SPEAKER_00: We can laugh like this.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: We can joke together like this.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: This is what the world needs.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: This is what Francis was all about.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: That joy.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he was all about joy.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: Because that's what God's love is, is joy.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Perfectly said.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: Everything he was about was joy because he was all God's love and the joy
41:14
SPEAKER_01: that he found seeing the crucified Christ in the hungry and in the leper.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: That's what we need.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: And this 800th year, and I think you just alluded to it, even in death, I welcome sister death.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that just blew me away.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: When Pope Leo put that prayer together and he starts it with 800 years ago,
41:34
SPEAKER_00: you, Francis, welcome sister death.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: Wow, that blew me away.
41:39
SPEAKER_02: I'd love to hear a little bit more about both your book and your talk show,
41:43
SPEAKER_02: Thank God for Monday,
41:44
SPEAKER_02: because I think they share a common theme about career,
41:47
SPEAKER_02: which we've kind of alluded to throughout our conversation,
41:50
SPEAKER_02: just this work-life balance.
41:51
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you could tell us about these two projects and what you've gleaned from them.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: Thank God for Monday actually was born in 2006, just as I was entering the brothers, ironically.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: And it was born from a fact that I always loved the radio growing up,
42:10
SPEAKER_00: really listening to the radio most of my life.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't understand one thing.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: There was so much, you know, Catholic or Christian or religion talk.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: It was politic talk.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: There was sports talk.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: Even Dr. Ruth for those kinds of challenges, but there was nothing about the workplace.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't understand this because my career was one where I spent so much time,
42:34
SPEAKER_00: energy, tears, and sweat, and there was just nothing about it.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: And so my alma mater,
42:40
SPEAKER_00: Seton Hall,
42:40
SPEAKER_00: was very,
42:41
SPEAKER_00: very kind and said, well, we'll try it for a year and let's see what happens.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: And it was okay.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: And then the bottom dropped out of the housing market.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people lost their jobs, et cetera.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: And it was really, really much more needed.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: But the thrust of the show has been right from day one.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: It's about taking personal responsibility.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: We want to provide hope,
43:03
SPEAKER_00: healing, and peace in these really unprecedented, turbulent, challenging times.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: People really to look deep inside themselves for professional fulfillment.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: We want people, the title comes from, you know, we always heard of TGIF, thank God it's Friday.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: We want people on a Monday morning to get up and say, you know, I'm glad it's Monday.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad I'm going to work today.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: So they love their work.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm so blessed now in St. Francis College, this ministry, it's not work.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: I really love Monday morning.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: I get to go back there and see the students do this and all, et cetera, et cetera.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: That has been just a labor loop.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: I do want to share with you,
43:44
SPEAKER_00: though, I learned a hard lesson I want to share with the listeners and you.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: When I first started doing the show, you talk about ego.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: I always felt that I had to carry a lot of the conversation, try to show how smart I was.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: Thank one of my loyal listeners one day about three years and said, Greg, do us a favor.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Just shut up.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: Set the format, set the stage.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: They're not tuning in for you.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: They're tuning in for the guests.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: Remember, you're doing this for the audience.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: This isn't about you.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: You're doing this.
44:17
SPEAKER_00: And the show has really taken off, thank God, since then.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: The book, I started the book in 2015 or 16.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: It's called Transform Yourself, Transform the World, a Franciscan View of Career.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: And how this all came about, I was in our career center.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: And one day I said to myself, gee, I wonder what the Franciscan view of career is.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: So I did a Google search and nothing came up.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: This is strange.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: I said, there's got to be informational either.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: But I kept looking.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: There was nothing there.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: And that was unusual because even then,
44:52
SPEAKER_00: There was so much information about almost every aspect of Franciscanism,
44:57
SPEAKER_00: but there was nothing about career.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: I said, this is strange.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: So I started putting some notes together,
45:03
SPEAKER_00: but I doubted for years that I could finish this until one day the Holy Spirit,
45:09
SPEAKER_00: it was really a miracle, just said, you know what, you can do this.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: You can finish this.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: And one thing led to another.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: And I met a couple of people and I got help from those people and ended it.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: Transform the way, Tao Publishing was the publisher, certainly.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: So it's been out a couple of years.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because the book is really into three different sections.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, a couple of different, but it talks about France.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: I tell a little bit about the Francis story.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: I talk about self-awareness, I talk about career, and then I talk about Franciscan value.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: So those are probably the four.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: But I'm a firm believer,
45:44
SPEAKER_00: and I just had a conversation recently with some high-level people from the outside,
45:49
SPEAKER_00: and my guests say the same thing.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: College students especially,
45:52
SPEAKER_00: but even people beyond,
45:54
SPEAKER_00: they know biology and accounting and this and so all of these disciplines,
45:59
SPEAKER_00: they're clueless about themselves.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: So that's one of the keys of this book.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: I really want you, what are your strengths?
46:05
SPEAKER_00: What's your life purpose?
46:07
SPEAKER_00: What's your personality type?
46:09
SPEAKER_00: Things of this nature.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: The more we can learn about ourselves,
46:13
SPEAKER_00: the better we can really make a contribution to the world.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: So I've kind of turned Francis's,
46:19
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:20
SPEAKER_00: rebuild I church,
46:21
SPEAKER_00: which you see is falling into ruins,
46:23
SPEAKER_00: to transform the world, which you see is in need of your life.
46:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: I like that starting from the temple within.
46:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: I do believe in 2026 that San Damiano Cross is talking to each one of us,
46:34
SPEAKER_00: especially the young people.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: I would just love to ask Greg about Franciscan Month just
46:40
SPEAKER_02: because this is how we all connected and maybe you could talk about this in
46:44
SPEAKER_02: the hopes of the initiative.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so very, very much.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: This was born actually in retrospect in 2016.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: I had been doing Thank God for Money for 10 years and things are getting
46:56
SPEAKER_00: a little stale and I said,
46:57
SPEAKER_00: okay, I said, maybe some of the shows, it's a weekly show, we can do themed shows.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: So for example,
47:06
SPEAKER_00: February Black History Month,
47:07
SPEAKER_00: March Women's History Month, October Breast Cancer Awareness.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: And so I started doing these and I was amazed what I learned about these movements
47:21
SPEAKER_00: that I really knew nothing about.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: And even just theming one show a month, Wow, I was learning so much.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: So 2022, we always had had at the college, Claire and Francis Week.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: And in February of 23, I think it was actually, again, the Holy Spirit.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: What about a Franciscan month?
47:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, we have this great 800 year movement.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: What about us?
47:48
SPEAKER_00: So we did in that year 23 at the college, we did instead of a week, we did a whole month.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: And the students really gravitated to it in the faculty, staff administration.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so 2024, again, we didn't hold on to the good.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: We shared that we did at the college,
48:05
SPEAKER_00: but we got three dioceses involved from New Jersey and New York each.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, went okay.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: 2025, we tried to go across the whole country together.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: And it worked somewhat, but we learned a lot of lessons.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: So this year, we've remained trying to go across the country.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: We've got a team of almost 30 people from Brooklyn to California.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: And I must say, we have a nice website, franciscanmonth.org.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: And this year, we're really driving people to the website.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: One of the other things we're doing is we're building relationships,
48:40
SPEAKER_00: like this wonderful relationship we have with you.
48:42
SPEAKER_00: And again, thank you for allowing us to be part of your great ministry.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: So the real thrust is what we kind of talked about before,
48:49
SPEAKER_00: that the person will get to know the true Francis.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: And they'll be inspired,
48:55
SPEAKER_00: maybe even just looking at the website and reading a little article or maybe going
48:59
SPEAKER_00: to an event.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: We've got a whole bunch of different events.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Of course,
49:04
SPEAKER_00: the blessing of the animals,
49:05
SPEAKER_00: but that kind of just brings the people to the site and maybe
49:08
SPEAKER_00: to whet their appetite regarding Francis.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: One of the big events, if you don't mind me plugging, the 21st of October is a Wednesday.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: We're having what we call contemplation across the miles.
49:21
SPEAKER_00: Everybody across the U.S. praying for peace.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: There's no set time because of the time change and this and that.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: But we tried this last year in the colleges, and it worked very well.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: We had a dozen of the colleges participate.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: So this year, I've had poor clairs.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: I've had men's communities.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: I've had a whole bunch of seculars.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people who want to,
49:43
SPEAKER_00: on that day,
49:44
SPEAKER_00: just take an hour aside,
49:46
SPEAKER_00: if it's adoration, quiet prayer, whatever it is, to pray for peace.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: And we can all do that on the 21st in solidarity.
49:55
SPEAKER_00: That would be wonderful, certainly.
49:58
SPEAKER_00: So again, franciscanmonth.org is a website.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: You'll find Murray Bodo did a beautiful reflection.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: He had some very kind words for us.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of good nuggets out there.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: I love that idea of on the 21st, having that one hour of prayer.
50:16
SPEAKER_01: I think we'll certainly push that out to our viewing audience and our leadership as well.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: That was the whole thrust really of Franciscan month also.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: If more people can live more of a Franciscan way, the world has to be a better place.
50:33
SPEAKER_00: Schools, our communities, our church, everything.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing I want to mention,
50:37
SPEAKER_00: this is not only a Catholic initiative,
50:40
SPEAKER_00: because Francis, as you guys know better than I, he's for everyone.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: Claire is for everyone, certainly.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: So we're looking to get everybody on board here, whoever wants to.
50:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, Greg, this has been fantastic.
50:52
SPEAKER_02: I know we kind of like to,
50:53
SPEAKER_02: as just a way of tying threads of conversation together,
50:56
SPEAKER_02: we do like to ask our guests about their hopes for the name
50:59
SPEAKER_02: of our journal is Tomorrow's American Catholic.
51:01
SPEAKER_02: So I might just put it to you.
51:03
SPEAKER_02: What comes up for you when you hear that phrase or any notes of hope you'd like
51:06
SPEAKER_02: to leave us with?
51:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and by the way, what a beautiful name you've chosen, Tomorrow's America.
51:13
SPEAKER_00: It has hope written all over it, certainly.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: And I just think that for tomorrow's Americans and Catholic is somebody who's going.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: I love what Pope Francis talked about when he said we're going to be like a field hospital.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: We've got to embrace those who are less fortunate.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: That's one thing I've learned becoming a Franciscan brother in our school that's in
51:48
SPEAKER_00: a downtown Brooklyn area.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: Just there's a lot of people who are really struggling and challenged.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: And we as Catholics today and tomorrow.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: We need to embrace the lepers.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: Certainly,
52:01
SPEAKER_00: we need to do whatever we can to be able to assist these,
52:05
SPEAKER_00: to get them to a quality of life, of decency, of normalcy, etc.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: And this, to me, is the key role of the Catholic Church moving forward.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: No question about that.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: That was beautiful.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Greg.
52:20
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: This is an honor of mine, certainly.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: Really, I thank you again for coming to my stage.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
52:28
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52:43
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52:47
SPEAKER_02: tomorrowsamericancatholic.org.
53:00
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53:11
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