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Israel: Whose Land is It Anyway? (ft. Graham Keelan) · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy, a Prophecy Watchers podcast. Welcome
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Speaker 1: to the program today, Mono Gonzalez here in studio. But
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Speaker 1: I have through Skype a good friend, Graham Kielan, who
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Speaker 1: lives in England, and we wanted to really spend some
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Speaker 1: time discussing really the whole nation of Israel. As you
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Speaker 1: might be seeing, there's been a lot of challenging things happening,
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Speaker 1: especially in England. I want to get Graham's thoughts on
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Speaker 1: that as well. But it seems that anti Semitism is
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Speaker 1: raising its head all around the world in response to
0:35
Speaker 1: Israel simply defending itself from a terrorist slaughter. But as
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Speaker 1: we do that, we want to always get back to
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Speaker 1: the Bible and ask about the importance of Israels. What
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Speaker 1: Graham and I want to do over the next few
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Speaker 1: weeks is to tackle some of these topics. Graham lives
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Speaker 1: in England. He's a historian, certainly a theologian. He's very
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Speaker 1: knowledgeable about so many things. Had the chance to participate
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Speaker 1: with him in a conference there last month and today Graham,
1:01
Speaker 1: welcome here. We are.
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Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Mondo, looking forward to doing this
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Speaker 2: series with you and hopefully we'll be able to really
1:09
Speaker 2: get the spade out and dig into the scriptures and
1:12
Speaker 2: dig into history and dig into theology. You know, so
1:16
Speaker 2: understanding israel I think scripturally, theologically, historically and eschatologically, so
1:24
Speaker 2: all big words, but they can be done. It can
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Speaker 2: be done, so, you know, and I think there's a
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Speaker 2: lot of confusion around. So hopefully we can try and
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Speaker 2: clear up and speak into that confusion too, you.
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Speaker 1: Know, if you will before we start here, because you're
1:38
Speaker 1: kind of you know, at least in the in the
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Speaker 1: relatively local area. What's your what's your perspective, certainly as
1:44
Speaker 1: a as a Christian? Obviously you you you believe the
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Speaker 1: Lord's returning, You're not a replacement theologian. What has been
1:52
Speaker 1: your personal feeling and sense of some of the the
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Speaker 1: the protests, the demonstrations that are happening on in other
2:00
Speaker 1: places that are very pro Hamas, and just what's your sense?
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Speaker 1: How do you feel? Yeah?
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Speaker 2: I think yeah, it's it's you know, you kind of
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Speaker 2: like you take a step back and you sort of
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Speaker 2: like watching it happen in front of you. I think,
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Speaker 2: you know, it speaks to so many things, you know,
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Speaker 2: even the idea of multiculturalism. You you you see, it
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Speaker 2: works on some levels, it doesn't work on other levels.
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Speaker 2: So you see, you know that the protests predominantly from
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Speaker 2: the Islamic community predominantly, but obviously there are some you
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Speaker 2: know what I would call some well, some middle class
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Speaker 2: folks in there as well, you know, but we do
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Speaker 2: have a segment of that just leftists. They're just that
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Speaker 2: and and this is their cause, it's their course, celeb
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Speaker 2: you know. So yeah, it's it's it's painful to watch.
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Speaker 2: But on the other hand, I think it's also it's
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Speaker 2: it's interesting in that I think we're seeing the fault
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Speaker 2: line and I think we're seeing you know, if people haven't,
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Speaker 2: if Christians haven't figured out by now that Jerusalem is
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Speaker 2: the rupture point of the world, then I you know,
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Speaker 2: I don't know what is going to take to convince them,
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Speaker 2: because you know, all the nations now it's just that
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Speaker 2: that small city, that small piece of land suddenly now
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Speaker 2: you know, everybody is weighing in on you know what
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Speaker 2: they're going to be doing. If you know, you've got
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Speaker 2: the people in the Middle East and Iran, you know
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Speaker 2: what they're threatening. As for what's happening here in the UK,
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Speaker 2: I mean the government's holding pretty strong and thankfully so,
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Speaker 2: and I pray that that continues with its sort of
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Speaker 2: unequivocal support. A lot of people don't like that. Of course,
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Speaker 2: we have some problems in the in the opposition party,
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Speaker 2: the Labor Party, which has always had a had an
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Speaker 2: if shoo I think with the Nation of Israel, and
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Speaker 2: of course it seems to have gone away, you know
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Speaker 2: with the with the new leading now and the old
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Speaker 2: leader gone Jeremy Corbyn. But now it's it was always
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Speaker 2: just simmering again under the surface, you know. So it's
4:16
Speaker 2: going to be it will be interesting to see if
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Speaker 2: it actually ruptures the Labor Party as well, you know,
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Speaker 2: because there are sort of like their favorites to be
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Speaker 2: in them in government next year when we have the election. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: that this is going to be an interesting, interesting battle
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Speaker 2: for them. And I think again, yeah, looking at it, Mondo,
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Speaker 2: what's what's happening on the streets. It's it's people are fixed,
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Speaker 2: I think in their causes, right, So we're not going
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Speaker 2: to convince outsiders. And I think for us and I
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Speaker 2: doing this this podcast, we're trying to maybe bring awareness
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Speaker 2: to to believers, to Christians, to who are maybe confused
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Speaker 2: about the whole thing, and that you know what we
4:59
Speaker 2: we spoken about that privately about you know that I
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Speaker 2: stand with Israel, Well what does that actually mean? You know?
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Speaker 2: And again, if what we want to do, I think
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Speaker 2: is look at this very take steps back. I mean,
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Speaker 2: there are enough people commenting on the war, so I think,
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Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to just sort of I'm not
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Speaker 2: going to bother commenting on the war because there are
5:22
Speaker 2: more people better placed with better knowledge to do that.
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Speaker 2: But I think with what's happening here, what's happening there
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Speaker 2: in the States as well, it is pretty much there's
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Speaker 2: something about the Western world, I think, which is it's
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Speaker 2: kind of there's a bit of a there's something of
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Speaker 2: a sickness there, you know, and and it's it's never
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Speaker 2: gone away, you know, and anti Semitism. And as much
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Speaker 2: as the West has sponsored Israel and sponsored its return
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Speaker 2: to the land, there is still something deeply entrenched. So
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Speaker 2: you know, we of I mean you and I I've
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Speaker 2: been to Israel twice, and how many times you've been.
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Speaker 2: But love the land, love the city, love the people,
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Speaker 2: and you know, but I think it's God has to
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Speaker 2: put the love for Israel in your heart. You know,
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Speaker 2: it's really it can be mandated for by the U
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Speaker 2: N or you know, but something has to be there
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Speaker 2: that you realize when you go into the scriptures that
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Speaker 2: Israel is God's plan and it's always been God's plan
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Speaker 2: and will always be God's plan, you know. So that's
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Speaker 2: what we're going to uncovers. So yeah, I mean, you know,
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Speaker 2: you can get really sidetracked, bogged down in the news,
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Speaker 2: which is I can tend to be, and so I've
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Speaker 2: kind of shot that off a little bit. I just
6:49
Speaker 2: now look for the headlines to see else what else
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Speaker 2: is happening. But I've done a lot of watching on videos,
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Speaker 2: you know, various people Secular Common takes us, you know,
7:03
Speaker 2: watching some of their videos about the different opinions about
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Speaker 2: what's actually going on, and you realize it's a bit
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Speaker 2: of a mess. It's a whole lot of a mess,
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Speaker 2: and it's pretty tractable, actually it really is. It's pretty intractable.
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Speaker 2: So you know, but we know for the world anyway,
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Speaker 2: but we know that God has a plan. So you know,
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Speaker 2: that'll be my response there for you.
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Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that you had mentioned
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Speaker 1: to me, you know, we we spent some time in
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Speaker 1: London together, you know, in September, and you mentioned something
7:33
Speaker 1: interesting that the comment you made was, well, London's not
7:38
Speaker 1: really an English town anymore. It has become really filled
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Speaker 1: with people cosmopolitan or international or whatever, so it doesn't
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Speaker 1: really necessarily have a dominant English whatever. So kind of
7:54
Speaker 1: expand on that for a moment, because.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, think, yeah, but well it was just something I
7:59
Speaker 2: read because it was it was it was done by
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Speaker 2: a Londoner. And he he was saying, I think like
8:06
Speaker 2: back in the fifties, the sixties, the seventies, I think
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Speaker 2: it was eighty percent Londoners were what we would call,
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Speaker 2: you know, British white, you know, English, And there's nothing wrong,
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Speaker 2: of course I'm not. You know, there's nothing wrong with multiculturalism.
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Speaker 2: But obviously where the problem when people are allowed almost
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Speaker 2: just to or they don't feel that they have to
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Speaker 2: learn history, they have to learn culture, they have to
8:33
Speaker 2: learn language, you know. And now he was saying that,
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Speaker 2: you know, you could walk through parts of London now
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Speaker 2: and you won't even hear the English language spoken, you know.
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Speaker 2: So and he said, now it's down to about thirty
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Speaker 2: percent or thirty to thirty five percent, and a lot
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Speaker 2: of Londoners, you know, you know that the cockney, you know,
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Speaker 2: the cockney Londoner. A lot of them are now just
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Speaker 2: moving out. Cockney I was reading the other day is
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Speaker 2: a dying dialect that's no longer really heard or spoken.
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Speaker 2: So so again, I mean, you know, we live in
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Speaker 2: a very multicultural country, and quite successfully so. But if
9:13
Speaker 2: you're not all pulling together, you know. So okay, So
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Speaker 2: London the Blitz, right, you know, nineteen forty it's you know,
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Speaker 2: it's been it's been bombed to smithereens by the Germans,
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Speaker 2: and there was a coming together of all the Londoners
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Speaker 2: right too. They call it the spirit of the Blitz.
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Speaker 2: You know, I don't think such a spirit would ever
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Speaker 2: exist in London again because people are just so diversified.
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Speaker 2: And how many people now in London who have just
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Speaker 2: moved over even aware of the Blitz, you know, I
9:53
Speaker 2: mean there's no there's no connecting point to the past.
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Speaker 2: It's all now. I mean, London is a world city,
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Speaker 2: so you know, I get that. But it's just interesting
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Speaker 2: hearing from from you know, this guy who's who's a
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Speaker 2: social commentator and a journalist to say, you know, how
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Speaker 2: it's how it's gone from eighty percent now down to
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Speaker 2: thirty five percent, because you know, a lot of people
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Speaker 2: just come in, they come into work, you know, get
10:19
Speaker 2: a job, try to find a flat, which you can't's exorbitant.
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Speaker 2: But you know, if that's all the city is to you,
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Speaker 2: then you have no connection. You have no connection to
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Speaker 2: the history, no connection to the past, and your only
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Speaker 2: connection is to your own history. So you bring your
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Speaker 2: own history and you live in your own secluded you know,
10:39
Speaker 2: communities where you speak your own languages, and and you're
10:43
Speaker 2: not you know, you're not required to integrate, not not
10:48
Speaker 2: by law, but but just by the sense of well,
10:52
Speaker 2: you know, if I was to go to America, if
10:53
Speaker 2: I was to become an American, you know, I it
10:57
Speaker 2: would be incumbent upon me to to well, I already
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Speaker 2: speak the language, but the incumbent upon me to to
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Speaker 2: you know, learn the history, learn some you know, what
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Speaker 2: is it to be an American? What is this nation about?
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Speaker 2: And I you know, how many people you know that
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Speaker 2: that are living here actually know what this nation is about?
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Speaker 2: And I don't know that, you know, with the vast
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Speaker 2: migration of people that's going on now, I don't know
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Speaker 2: that many people do.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's interesting that oftentimes when people you know,
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Speaker 1: like yourself or whatever, come and visit or or where
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Speaker 1: over there, and and we we use the term like, oh,
11:36
Speaker 1: you know what, hey, it's July fourth. Well, July fourth
11:39
Speaker 1: means nothing to a to an English person in that sense,
11:44
Speaker 1: except maybe that's what you know, when we rebelled against
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Speaker 1: the king. But you know, for us, there is a
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Speaker 1: sense of history in each country that it has. And
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Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons I wanted to bring
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Speaker 1: that up is because in the sense of London is
11:56
Speaker 1: that we see on television, we see the media that
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Speaker 1: there's there's lots of people bull participating in London and
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Speaker 1: it's not necessarily reflective of the rest of England.
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Speaker 2: No, No, And I would even say it's not necessarily
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Speaker 2: reflective of a of a lot of Londoners too, you know,
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Speaker 2: just to switch to the other side, most people, I think,
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Speaker 2: if they're not protesting, are pretty pretty either not bothered
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Speaker 2: by it or just kind of like just tacitly agree
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Speaker 2: with what's going on. And you know, so they're not
12:29
Speaker 2: they're not where, you know, sort of waving an Israeli
12:34
Speaker 2: flag or a Palacinion flag. It's just a case of okay,
12:37
Speaker 2: this is what they had to do. So I think
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Speaker 2: I think as well, you know, the media does play
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Speaker 2: it up, but I think it was this last weekend
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Speaker 2: we had a march of about one hundred thousand when
12:48
Speaker 2: you could sit in London as a population of it
12:50
Speaker 2: was in an eight and nine million. Now, I'm not
12:52
Speaker 2: too sure. So we do have them in different cities.
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Speaker 2: We had one in Bristol the other weekend as well.
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Speaker 2: Don't know how well attended it was, so that there
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Speaker 2: was there's always going to two you know too, what's
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Speaker 2: the word, There's always going to be that element. And
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Speaker 2: of course, you know, you know, if people are pretty
13:15
Speaker 2: much tied to the to the narrative, the Palestinian narrative,
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Speaker 2: through their through their religion, let's say, through their Islamic religion,
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Speaker 2: then those are the people who are going to be
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Speaker 2: more fired up about about the issues. So you know,
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Speaker 2: so you know, that would be my, my, my, very
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Speaker 2: I'm not unprofessional, my very shallow comment on the proceedings.
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Speaker 1: So let's jump in here where what we see today,
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Speaker 1: even in the church and certainly out in the world,
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Speaker 1: there's a lot of confusion, and there's a confusion and
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Speaker 1: there's a distinction that's being made, I think in a
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Speaker 1: way that's unhealthy between modern Israel began in nineteen forty
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Speaker 1: eight as a state, and ancient Israel, or biblical Israel
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Speaker 1: that's found as the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
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Speaker 1: And so you have these claims that are being made
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Speaker 1: that modern Israel has no claim to the land. And
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Speaker 1: so we will address a little bit about the ethnic,
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Speaker 1: you know, aspects of modern Israel later, but let's just
14:19
Speaker 1: jump into the Bible for am, and let's talk from
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Speaker 1: the Old Testament, and what does the Bible say about
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Speaker 1: this strip of land, which is pretty small everybody, at
14:28
Speaker 1: least from an American perspective. We talk about it being
14:31
Speaker 1: the size of the state of New Jersey, you know,
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Speaker 1: very small. In many big states, sometimes there's a county
14:37
Speaker 1: that's even bigger. A county and a state of like
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Speaker 1: organ as an example, where I grew up, that's bigger
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Speaker 1: than Israel itself. So let's go back to the beginning.
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Speaker 1: Someone asks you, you know, Graham, you know, from a
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Speaker 1: theological perspective, whose land is it? Anyway, let's talk about that.
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Speaker 2: Well, I think on equivoc it stated God himself says,
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Speaker 2: it's his land, you know, so you have Jeremiah two seven.
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Speaker 2: Of course this is later on when he says to
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Speaker 2: the Israelites, because you know when they he says, when
15:12
Speaker 2: you came in, you defiled my land. Of course his
15:16
Speaker 2: land had been defiled before, you know. But I think
15:18
Speaker 2: you just have to go back to Deuteronomy thirty two.
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Speaker 2: So you and I are both readers of the late
15:25
Speaker 2: doctor Michael Heyser's work, and you know he he mentions
15:32
Speaker 2: a lot concerning the scripture. So in Deuteronomy thirty two,
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Speaker 2: verse eight, so we know what happens there. It says
15:41
Speaker 2: there at the tower of Babel, so God divides the
15:45
Speaker 2: nations their inheritance, right, And then he says here, so
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Speaker 2: when the Most High divided their inheritance to the nations,
15:52
Speaker 2: when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the
15:55
Speaker 2: boundaries of the people's according to the number of the
15:58
Speaker 2: children of Israel. Now we know that the septuagen also
16:02
Speaker 2: translates that as the number of the sons of God.
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Speaker 2: But it doesn't really matter, actually, because what we're looking
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Speaker 2: at here is that he sets the boundaries of the peoples.
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Speaker 2: And then he says, for the Lord's portion is his people.
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Speaker 2: Jacob is the place of his inheritance. So we see
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Speaker 2: straight off that Israel is a people and it's a place, right,
16:23
Speaker 2: it's a nation, and it's a land. And if you
16:26
Speaker 2: just scoot down there to verse forty three of the
16:29
Speaker 2: same chapter, it's something quite interesting. It says, here, rejoice
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Speaker 2: so gentilezed with his people, for he will avenge the
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Speaker 2: bloody of the servants and render vengeance to his adversaries.
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Speaker 2: He will provide atonement for his land and his people.
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Speaker 2: Now some translations there say his people's land. Again, it
16:53
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter, but the fact is that there's something
16:56
Speaker 2: where God cleanses. Another says he cleanses his peace people's land. Right,
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Speaker 2: So the land by the design of Deuteronomy thirty two,
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Speaker 2: by the decree of juter only thirty two, with actually
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Speaker 2: God's portion. So he divides the nations out to and
17:19
Speaker 2: he sets their boundaries. But then he makes a claim
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Speaker 2: to a particular land. And of course we know what happens. Then.
17:29
Speaker 2: As soon as God makes the claim to the land,
17:32
Speaker 2: then the rebellious nations, and even quite perhaps perhaps the
17:37
Speaker 2: rebellious sons of God. But we won't go too deep.
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Speaker 2: Into that, what do they do. They move into the
17:43
Speaker 2: land and they you know, and then it's called the
17:46
Speaker 2: land of Canaan. And then they filled the land with giants.
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Speaker 2: So again, you know, there's a whole lot of stuff
17:52
Speaker 2: going or we can't go into Nephelin can we know,
17:55
Speaker 2: But there's a whole lot of stuff going on there.
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Speaker 2: So in other words, as soon as God decrees something
18:02
Speaker 2: that okay, I'm going to claim a portion of this
18:05
Speaker 2: planet for myself and for my people from where he
18:10
Speaker 2: will work out the plan of redemption for all the nations.
18:13
Speaker 2: He eventually wants to bring all the nations back, and
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Speaker 2: it's just from the off then Satan has moved in,
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Speaker 2: and of course Canaan is the son who was cursed,
18:24
Speaker 2: so the land is actually cursed when the Canaanites are
18:28
Speaker 2: actually in the land. Now that's interesting because we tend
18:31
Speaker 2: to think, you know, so they are the occupiers. They
18:35
Speaker 2: are the original occupiers, do you know what I'm saying.
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Speaker 2: Actually they actually moved in when God had already set
18:41
Speaker 2: the boundaries of the land to say no, that's my land,
18:44
Speaker 2: and they filled it with the hybrid race. But yes,
18:48
Speaker 2: so you would get that from jut to one of
18:50
Speaker 2: thirty two. You also get I get it from Joel
18:52
Speaker 2: chapter three, right, we know that one that's the famous
18:55
Speaker 2: one where where God saw that is castigating those who
18:58
Speaker 2: divide my land. So God quite specifically declares it to
19:04
Speaker 2: be his land and that he's going to be his
19:08
Speaker 2: land for his people.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing to me that when you talk about
19:14
Speaker 1: people who love the land, the land of Israel, and
19:18
Speaker 1: they should because obviously we know history happens there. The
19:21
Speaker 1: Lord was there, the Lord died there, and the plan
19:24
Speaker 1: of redemption, God's eternal plan of redemption happened in a location.
19:28
Speaker 1: But you go back to I appreciate the way you
19:31
Speaker 1: started it because we go back to God, God saying
19:33
Speaker 1: this is my land. I'm going to give it to
19:34
Speaker 1: whom I want. And then, as you mentioned, after the
19:37
Speaker 1: Tower of Babbel in Genesis eleven, where the nations were divided,
19:41
Speaker 1: immediately you see a turn of historical narrative that starts
19:46
Speaker 1: to focus at the end of chapter eleven on this guy, Abram.
19:50
Speaker 1: God chooses Abram tells him, you know, go to land
19:53
Speaker 1: I will show you, which, as we know you just described,
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Speaker 1: this is my land. God says, I'm going to go
19:57
Speaker 1: over here, go over here. And then in Genesis twelve
20:00
Speaker 1: and thirteen, fifteen, seventeen, all those chapters, he tells him
20:04
Speaker 1: look around this land. See everything you see as you
20:08
Speaker 1: look east west, all the cardinal points. I'm gonna give
20:11
Speaker 1: this land to you and to your descendants. And then
20:14
Speaker 1: we know that that covenant in Genesis twelve and thirteen
20:18
Speaker 1: and fifteen was given not only to Abraham who Abram
20:22
Speaker 1: who became Abraham, but later to Isaac and then also
20:26
Speaker 1: to Jacob. And what I find fascinating is if you
20:31
Speaker 1: read Exodus through Deuteronomy, especially Deuteronomy chapter nine. God is
20:38
Speaker 1: describing his relationship with the land, and he says how
20:42
Speaker 1: often that the land that the Canaan I two were
20:45
Speaker 1: there were polluting his land, and that the land would
20:49
Speaker 1: vomit Israel outs if they continued to sind. In Deuteronomy
20:53
Speaker 1: nine five and six, he says pretty clear, I'm not
20:56
Speaker 1: bringing you into this land to give to you because
20:59
Speaker 1: you're righteous. I'm bringing them in. I'm bringing you in
21:04
Speaker 1: because the previous inhabitants were wicked and evil and they
21:07
Speaker 1: polluted it. And so I'm bringing you in in order
21:10
Speaker 1: to remove them as well as to keep my promise
21:13
Speaker 1: to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and to me, it's fascinating
21:17
Speaker 1: that in Deuteron me as well, God says I'm bringing
21:23
Speaker 1: you to land, and he says that the Lord's eyes
21:27
Speaker 1: are always on the land. He loves it, he keeps
21:31
Speaker 1: an eye on it. It's always again under his guidance
21:34
Speaker 1: and control and sovereignty, and who he will give it to.
21:38
Speaker 1: So at the end of the day, what we recognize is,
21:42
Speaker 1: and maybe let's talk about this is certainly they were
21:46
Speaker 1: in the land. They were kicked out in Babylon, you know,
21:49
Speaker 1: in five eighty six for the rest of for seventy years,
21:52
Speaker 1: as we know, they came back. Jesus is there. Jesus
21:56
Speaker 1: is walking in the land. They get expelled really seventy
22:00
Speaker 1: a d and finished in one thirty five. But here's
22:04
Speaker 1: the question. Is there any time constraints on the promise
22:10
Speaker 1: that God gave to Israel, the people of Israel, the
22:14
Speaker 1: ethnic the descendants at Abraham, anybody that has the blood
22:19
Speaker 1: a single drop of DNA that goes all the way
22:21
Speaker 1: back to Abraham issing a Jacob. Was there a time
22:25
Speaker 1: exterminator or a time expiration on that promise?
22:31
Speaker 2: No, and and when you know, I was reading where
22:36
Speaker 2: Jesus with the woman at the sabaria, the woman at
22:40
Speaker 2: the well. Right, So he says something very interesting because
22:45
Speaker 2: in the end in this in this exchange that he
22:48
Speaker 2: has with her, and he says to her, you you
22:53
Speaker 2: worship what you do not know, right right, that we
22:59
Speaker 2: wish it what we know. And the the emphasis there
23:05
Speaker 2: in the Greek is an emphatic we right. So he says,
23:08
Speaker 2: we know what we we worship what we know. For
23:12
Speaker 2: salvation is of the Jews. So there's two things going
23:19
Speaker 2: on there now, Jesus speaking to her in ara Mae,
23:22
Speaker 2: which he probably is. Then you know, as I understand
23:25
Speaker 2: you sure it is also the name in Aramae, so
23:29
Speaker 2: you show me in salvation. So you know there is
23:31
Speaker 2: a bit of a play on words there. You're sure
23:32
Speaker 2: it is of the Jews. But it's when he says,
23:35
Speaker 2: we know, so he's including He didn't say I am,
23:39
Speaker 2: He didn't say salvation is of me. He says, salvation
23:43
Speaker 2: is of the Jews. Right, we know we Jews. So
23:47
Speaker 2: he's including himself in the Jewish body of believers in
23:55
Speaker 2: as the seed of Abraham. As we know that he
23:57
Speaker 2: is according to all the scriptures. So Jesus doesn't ever
24:03
Speaker 2: rescind that promise or abrogate that. He doesn't say, well,
24:07
Speaker 2: I'm not you know, I'm not a Jew now, because
24:11
Speaker 2: he's emphatically stating there too, the woman, we know what
24:15
Speaker 2: we worship, because salvation is of the Jews, you know.
24:20
Speaker 2: So talking to a friend of mine and she she
24:23
Speaker 2: just reminded me of the fact that the Israel was
24:29
Speaker 2: God's plan from before the foundation of the world. I mean,
24:34
Speaker 2: that's it. Israel began in the eternity, you know, because
24:37
Speaker 2: the plan began in the eternity. So Jesus is the
24:40
Speaker 2: lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.
24:44
Speaker 2: Is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world
24:47
Speaker 2: or for before the foundation of the world, depending how
24:49
Speaker 2: you read that scripture. But but there's only one lamb
24:53
Speaker 2: which is in you there right, which is the passover lamb.
24:55
Speaker 2: It's a Jewish lamb, is not any other kind of lamb.
24:59
Speaker 2: So you know, Israel is stated in the in the
25:03
Speaker 2: in the eternal past. So because it begins in the
25:08
Speaker 2: eternal past, there can be no abrogation of Israel, right,
25:12
Speaker 2: there can be no Okay, this is the end of Israel.
25:14
Speaker 2: We're right, We're done with Israel because Israel has has
25:18
Speaker 2: you know, has rebelled, has been on faithful. And that's
25:21
Speaker 2: what Paul is talking about. In Romans, isn't he says,
25:23
Speaker 2: shall they faithful? That those that have been unfaithful, shall
25:27
Speaker 2: they negate nullify the faithfulness of God. And he says,
25:30
Speaker 2: God forbid. It's just not going to happen, because the
25:34
Speaker 2: faithfulness of God towards Israel begins Mondo when when there
25:40
Speaker 2: is no Israel, there's only an Israel in his plan,
25:45
Speaker 2: and he knows exactly that He's going to come into
25:48
Speaker 2: Israel to affect this this plan of salvation, not just
25:52
Speaker 2: for the Jews then, but for the for the entire world.
25:55
Speaker 2: So no, you know, that's the long answer. There's something
26:00
Speaker 2: here again. In Romans fifteen eight says this. It says
26:04
Speaker 2: Jesus came as a servant of the Jews. I mean,
26:08
Speaker 2: think of that right. He came as a servant of
26:10
Speaker 2: the Jews on behalf of God's truth, so that the
26:14
Speaker 2: promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed, not might
26:20
Speaker 2: be annulled, not might be rescinded, not might be abrogated.
26:25
Speaker 2: It's based on God's truth. Jesus comes on behalf of
26:27
Speaker 2: God's truth to confirm the promises he made to the patriarchs.
26:32
Speaker 2: And when you know, there's an aspect of here I
26:36
Speaker 2: really want to look at which I've never heard anybody address,
26:38
Speaker 2: and that's that's the incarnation of Christ, of God, of
26:42
Speaker 2: God into humanity. But you know, there is no cutoff point.
26:49
Speaker 2: There just isn't because it's an eternal plan. Yep.
26:52
Speaker 1: I think a passage that comes to play here as well.
26:57
Speaker 1: It's good that we're getting the scripture because at the
26:59
Speaker 1: end of the day, the scripture is the authority. You know,
27:02
Speaker 1: we can all have opinions on different things at the end,
27:04
Speaker 1: but the goal is to say, let's go back to scripture.
27:07
Speaker 1: And one of my favorites here is in Jeremiah thirty
27:10
Speaker 1: one where God says, thus says the Lord who gives
27:13
Speaker 1: the sun for a light by day, the ordinance of
27:16
Speaker 1: the ordinances of the moon and the stars for a
27:19
Speaker 1: light by night, who disturbs the sea and its waves roar,
27:24
Speaker 1: The Lord of hosts is his name. So I like
27:27
Speaker 1: God's right here at the beginning. He's establishing his authority
27:30
Speaker 1: not only of the earth, but of the entire creation itself.
27:34
Speaker 1: He says, if those ordinances depart from before me Jeremiah
27:38
Speaker 1: thirty one thirty six, says the Lord, then the seat
27:42
Speaker 1: of Israel shall also cease from being a nation before
27:46
Speaker 1: Me forever. Thus, says the Lord, if heaven above can
27:50
Speaker 1: be measured, we haven't done that yet. I can tell
27:53
Speaker 1: you I'm out looking every night at the stars, and
27:56
Speaker 1: the foundations of the earth be searched out beneath. They
28:00
Speaker 1: will also cast off all the seat of Israel for
28:03
Speaker 1: all that they have done, says the Lord. See this
28:05
Speaker 1: is powerful here, because God is acknowledging right there out
28:09
Speaker 1: of the gate that Israel has been rebellious. I mean,
28:13
Speaker 1: Jeremiah is the one preaches, He's the weeping prophet talking
28:16
Speaker 1: about their rebellion and why they were kicked out of
28:18
Speaker 1: the land for seventy years over to Babylon. But God says,
28:22
Speaker 1: even in the midst of that, even as angry as
28:25
Speaker 1: God was and kicking them out, they will still be
28:28
Speaker 1: always a nation before Him forever. And so the thing
28:33
Speaker 1: that we'll talk about subsequent to this is how God
28:37
Speaker 1: plays that out as it relates from the first century
28:40
Speaker 1: on throughout the Church Age and even into the modern
28:43
Speaker 1: period in nineteen forty eight. But right here out of
28:46
Speaker 1: the gate, we need to establish that the land is God's.
28:50
Speaker 1: I mean, that was beautiful that you brought that up,
28:52
Speaker 1: because that's often not mentioned. It's God's land. He'll give
28:57
Speaker 1: it to whom he does. He gave it to Abraham
29:00
Speaker 1: and Jacob and their descendants. Forever it'll be a nation.
29:04
Speaker 1: But then he reserves the right and the whole book
29:08
Speaker 1: of Deuteronomies about this and warning them, Hey, guys, Moses says,
29:14
Speaker 1: if you disobey, the land itself will vomit you out.
29:18
Speaker 1: God will kick you out. The God will bring you
29:20
Speaker 1: back and give you another chance, and then you know what,
29:23
Speaker 1: He'll kick you out again if necessary. And the land
29:26
Speaker 1: is his. But He always is going to bring them
29:30
Speaker 1: back because it was given to them. Romans eleven, twenty nine.
29:34
Speaker 1: The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. That's
29:36
Speaker 1: his whole point in Romans eleven is talking about God's
29:40
Speaker 1: faithfulness to Israel, and as we see the Gospel, Paul
29:45
Speaker 1: says Israel was blinded in part, not fully in part
29:49
Speaker 1: because obviously Paul was a recipient of God's faithfulness as
29:54
Speaker 1: a Jew, but they were blinded in part until the
29:58
Speaker 1: fullness of the Gentiles would come, and then all Israel
30:01
Speaker 1: will be saved. In Romans eleven twenty five. So as
30:04
Speaker 1: we establish what we're talking about here, and there's a
30:07
Speaker 1: lot of confusion, and this doesn't mean that we endorse
30:10
Speaker 1: everything that modern Israel does. Of course, Deuteronomy nine, God
30:14
Speaker 1: says they're unrighteous, they're stiff neck, they're stubborn, they make mistakes.
30:17
Speaker 1: They brought him into land. He brings them back into
30:19
Speaker 1: land in nineteen forty eight. They're still stiff nicked, you know,
30:22
Speaker 1: like everybody is. But it wasn't because of their righteousness.
30:26
Speaker 1: So but nevertheless, the theological basis here, whose land is it.
30:31
Speaker 1: It's God's land, and He's given it to this group
30:35
Speaker 1: of people even though they're not receiving Jesus as Messiah.
30:40
Speaker 1: So let's let me ask you this question. We can't
30:45
Speaker 1: get into all of it. We get into it later.
30:47
Speaker 1: But some Christians will say, well, you know, Mondo Graham,
30:50
Speaker 1: what you guys don't understand is that all those promises
30:53
Speaker 1: that you just read are now on the church.
30:58
Speaker 2: Well yes, so so yeah, so so somehow all all
31:03
Speaker 2: of the So then what does the land, mean, you
31:05
Speaker 2: know what does the land then becomes this figure? Well,
31:10
Speaker 2: I don't know what the land. Okay, you could say, well,
31:13
Speaker 2: the promise has become about, you know, the blessings and
31:15
Speaker 2: all of that and prosper and all of that fan
31:18
Speaker 2: and spiritual blessings. But what do you do with the land,
31:22
Speaker 2: Because you know that the land is an earthly land.
31:27
Speaker 2: It's not a heavenly land. It's it's it's that plot
31:30
Speaker 2: of land in the Middle East. And so just repeat
31:33
Speaker 2: again some one O five. It says the Covenant verse
31:38
Speaker 2: verse seven. Here's the Lord I God. It's justments are
31:40
Speaker 2: in all the earth. He remembers his covenant forever, the
31:42
Speaker 2: word which he commanded for a thousand generations, the covenant
31:45
Speaker 2: which he made with Abraham and his oath to Isaac
31:47
Speaker 2: and confirmed it to Jacob for a statue to Israel
31:51
Speaker 2: as an evalasting covenant, saying to you, I will give
31:53
Speaker 2: the land of Canaan as in the allotment of your inheritance.
31:57
Speaker 2: So if if God's if if if if the land
32:02
Speaker 2: promis has been abrogated, then so has the nation of
32:05
Speaker 2: Israel has been canceled. Basically because you can't it's a people.
32:11
Speaker 2: It's a people for a land, right, nation for a land.
32:15
Speaker 2: Israel is a place. I think we don't get that.
32:17
Speaker 2: We just think now because oh, well, Israel is this.
32:19
Speaker 2: We're Israel, and you know we're just like moving around
32:24
Speaker 2: and we like wanderers. But I mean that there's an
32:26
Speaker 2: element in where where we're fulfilling Israel's call. We can
32:30
Speaker 2: look at that another time. But the place, the place
32:33
Speaker 2: of Israel. And you know what, and here's something, because
32:37
Speaker 2: Jesus comes to he comes to confirm the promises right
32:43
Speaker 2: that were made to the patriarchs. Now, sometimes they say
32:46
Speaker 2: forever doesn't mean forever, but in this case, forever actually
32:48
Speaker 2: does mean forever. Right, it really does mean forever. And
32:52
Speaker 2: the one aspect I wanted to again just to just
32:55
Speaker 2: to bring go deeper in this rather say well, who's
32:58
Speaker 2: you know, whose land is it? Looking at Jesus because
33:02
Speaker 2: in Genesis seventeen three, God says that this covenant about
33:06
Speaker 2: the land as well, you know, you'll be righteous and
33:09
Speaker 2: you'll be a nation to me. But on the land,
33:11
Speaker 2: this covenant will be in your flesh, an everlasting covenant. Right.
33:15
Speaker 2: So and what is what does God do? He tells
33:17
Speaker 2: his Abraham to be circumcised, right, So Abraham gets all excited.
33:22
Speaker 2: It circumcises everyone, right, I mean, everybody gets circumcised. And
33:26
Speaker 2: this is why circumcision plays such a big role in
33:32
Speaker 2: you know, in the argument of the early Church. When
33:34
Speaker 2: the you know, the gentiles come along, should they be circumcised? Right,
33:37
Speaker 2: because this is a big thing. Well what we I think,
33:40
Speaker 2: you know, this is just how weird when I say this.
33:43
Speaker 2: But Jesus was circumcised right on the eighth day, so
33:47
Speaker 2: again he's he's claiming full Jewish identity to claim the promises,
33:53
Speaker 2: to receive the promises. But he does something else happens
33:58
Speaker 2: with Jesus that doesn't happen with any other jew. He
34:01
Speaker 2: gets raised from the dead. And so Jesus takes the
34:06
Speaker 2: circumcision into the resurrection. Do you understand, you know, he
34:12
Speaker 2: takes it into into the new creation. So you know,
34:18
Speaker 2: Jesus isn't sort of saying, well, you know, my circumcision
34:22
Speaker 2: now is doesn't mean it means something different to what
34:25
Speaker 2: it meant when I was circumcised eight days old. No,
34:29
Speaker 2: his circumcision means something because it's a circumcision by the
34:33
Speaker 2: for the the oath to Abraham, do you understund of
34:36
Speaker 2: saying I said, it sounds a bit weird, but when
34:38
Speaker 2: you think about it, when you think theologically deeply about it, Jesus,
34:43
Speaker 2: we know he's got the hands. You know that the
34:45
Speaker 2: wounds in his hands, in his feet, right those that's
34:48
Speaker 2: that's sign. That's that's a covenant sign too. But the
34:51
Speaker 2: circumcision is a covenant sign. So you know, it's the
34:56
Speaker 2: deal has been sealed. As much as people want to
34:58
Speaker 2: argue about it, because stands at the right hand of God,
35:02
Speaker 2: sits at the right hand of God as a Jew, yep,
35:05
Speaker 2: excuse me, as a circumcised Jew. So that land is mine,
35:11
Speaker 2: you know that. That so nothing, nothing can be abrogated
35:15
Speaker 2: in in any of this. The other thing one tho
35:18
Speaker 2: is that is that you know you're talking about the
35:20
Speaker 2: You know, if you if you disobey our speed out
35:25
Speaker 2: of the land. And this is what happens. You know
35:27
Speaker 2: when Hoseiah, you know, the certificate of divorce in Israel,
35:31
Speaker 2: And so how God divorces his people is by divorcing
35:35
Speaker 2: them from the land. That there is an act of divorce,
35:39
Speaker 2: right you, I'm that divorce. Now I'm driving you from
35:42
Speaker 2: this land because the land is almost an endowment gift.
35:45
Speaker 2: It's it's a it's a dowry. You know that God
35:50
Speaker 2: gives to his people. But of course you know they
35:52
Speaker 2: have to be faithful to the to the marriage covenant.
35:55
Speaker 2: And in Isaiah sixty two, verse one to five. We
35:59
Speaker 2: probably can't go into that right now, but it talks.
36:02
Speaker 2: It says that your sons will will be married to
36:06
Speaker 2: the land. So we've all heard the term beulah land, right,
36:09
Speaker 2: it was just used to be a song called Bulah
36:11
Speaker 2: land if I remember years and years ago. Uh, But
36:14
Speaker 2: it says your land will be married. Your land will
36:17
Speaker 2: be called Beulah. And as your sons marry your let
36:21
Speaker 2: me just let me just get that. Then here we go.
36:23
Speaker 2: You shall be no longer term forsaken, So Jesus says,
36:27
Speaker 2: you know that you're you're you're forsaken until nor shall
36:30
Speaker 2: your land anymore be termed desolate. Jesus pronounced desolation on
36:34
Speaker 2: that land as well. But you shall be called heath
36:39
Speaker 2: Zebath and your land, your land will be called Beulah. Right,
36:44
Speaker 2: your land will be called married. Well, who's who is
36:46
Speaker 2: the land married to? It's not married to the Americans
36:50
Speaker 2: or the British or the Arabs. That piece is married,
36:54
Speaker 2: and it tells you here, for the Lord delights in you,
36:57
Speaker 2: and your land shall be married. For as a young
36:59
Speaker 2: man marries a ur, and so shall your sons marry you.
37:02
Speaker 2: And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so shall
37:05
Speaker 2: your God rejoice over you. And he's talking there to
37:08
Speaker 2: his people, you know. And the how the whole idea,
37:10
Speaker 2: they're not being married to the land, the people of
37:13
Speaker 2: God being married to the land is for them to
37:14
Speaker 2: produce children of the land. But again that's that's not
37:18
Speaker 2: what the church does. We're not here producing children of
37:21
Speaker 2: the land. Right, there's a different zion for us. And
37:26
Speaker 2: Paul speaks about that too another another session. So you know, no,
37:31
Speaker 2: I mean, if if you just look at this, just
37:35
Speaker 2: face value, at some of these scriptures and you and
37:38
Speaker 2: you think about, well, what is actually being said, you
37:40
Speaker 2: cannot you cannot say that that all of these promises
37:43
Speaker 2: have somehow been transferred because we are not being married
37:46
Speaker 2: to the land. You know, as much as I love
37:48
Speaker 2: the land of Israel, I'm not married to the land
37:51
Speaker 2: of Israel. You know, our our eyes are on a
37:53
Speaker 2: heavenly country, a heavenly land. We come to a heavenly
37:57
Speaker 2: mountain Zion. There's a there's a distinction there, right, And
38:01
Speaker 2: then do you want to add on this something before? Can?
38:05
Speaker 2: I really I want to look at some eighty nine
38:07
Speaker 2: if I can, And then because I think that's really again,
38:10
Speaker 2: really pretty important.
38:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the only thing that I wouldn't change
38:15
Speaker 1: anything at all, because what people need to understand is
38:19
Speaker 1: the whole idea of the promises being transferred over to
38:22
Speaker 1: the church as rooted in Jesus. Where do you go?
38:28
Speaker 1: It's a spiritual thing when you come to any of
38:31
Speaker 1: any of these texts in the Old Testament. I was
38:34
Speaker 1: doing a study last week on various psalms about Psalm
38:37
Speaker 1: eighty three and other things, and it's amazing to me
38:40
Speaker 1: as I look at these commentaries, that everything is just
38:43
Speaker 1: the church, and it's spiritual, it's figurative, it becomes metaphor
38:50
Speaker 1: allegorical even and as I watched the different or I
38:54
Speaker 1: was reading the different commentaries, they can go anywhere they want.
38:58
Speaker 1: As soon as you spiritualize the text, you can go
39:01
Speaker 1: anywhere you want to go, and you can make it
39:03
Speaker 1: apply in any direction. But the fact that that there's
39:07
Speaker 1: a context, and the context here is that God is
39:10
Speaker 1: going to restore Romans eleven twenty five the nation of Israel.
39:15
Speaker 1: He's going to restore the physical ethnic nation back to
39:19
Speaker 1: the land, because again, as you so beautifully wrote or spoke,
39:23
Speaker 1: you can't have one without the other, and they'll never
39:25
Speaker 1: cease to be a nation. So all those things, you'd
39:28
Speaker 1: have to completely throw it out and take it in
39:30
Speaker 1: such a non literal way that you can make it
39:33
Speaker 1: mean whenever you want, and that's not how the Bible
39:35
Speaker 1: is to be interpreted. And so just one last thing
39:37
Speaker 1: I'll say here is one of the books that I
39:40
Speaker 1: strongly recommend again is the Book of the Case for
39:44
Speaker 1: Zionism by Thomas Heiss. But he says here, because you
39:48
Speaker 1: see this thrown around today, Zionism is understood to mean
39:53
Speaker 1: a modern Jewish movement aiming at resettlement in the Land
39:56
Speaker 1: of Israel and the revival of an independent Jewish nation. Obviously,
40:02
Speaker 1: the word Zionism is derived from the biblical word Zion,
40:05
Speaker 1: used one hundred and sixty three times in the Bible
40:08
Speaker 1: and even seven times in the New Testament. It is
40:11
Speaker 1: the term used by the Psalmists during the Babylonian exile
40:14
Speaker 1: when longingly remembering the homeland quote Psalm one thirty seven
40:18
Speaker 1: to one, by the rivers of Babylon. There we sat
40:21
Speaker 1: down and wept, and we remembered Zion. Thus it is
40:25
Speaker 1: not surprising that zion or Zionism became the modern Jewish
40:29
Speaker 1: term expressing a desire for the Jewish people's return to
40:33
Speaker 1: Jerusalem and the physical land of Israel. And so he
40:37
Speaker 1: says one other thing here too. Today Zionism encompasses anyone,
40:41
Speaker 1: for any reason, desiring to see the nation of Israel
40:45
Speaker 1: continue as a Jewish state and to prosper in that regard. Now,
40:49
Speaker 1: again it doesn't mean of a carte blanche endorsement, but
40:53
Speaker 1: we recognize that all the idea of Zionism is rooted
40:56
Speaker 1: in the scripture. It's rooted in authority of the promises
40:59
Speaker 1: that God made. And so, you know, as we wrap
41:01
Speaker 1: up this kind of session here, I'll give you the
41:05
Speaker 1: last comments here because you wanted to mention that Psalm
41:07
Speaker 1: kind of wrap us up.
41:08
Speaker 2: Here, Okay. So, so I mean, that's that's a good
41:12
Speaker 2: point because I think people, I think we need to
41:15
Speaker 2: understand that they're almost like two Zionisms. And that's what
41:19
Speaker 2: we will go into later on. There's a there's a
41:21
Speaker 2: there's a Jewish Zionism which is doesn't have Jesus in view,
41:27
Speaker 2: and then there is a Christian Zionism which has Jesus
41:30
Speaker 2: in view. And sometimes those those streams will come together,
41:34
Speaker 2: and then sometimes they will part. We've also always got
41:37
Speaker 2: to have in our mind and our thoughts that the
41:43
Speaker 2: Jesus is has to be the center of how we
41:47
Speaker 2: think through Israel. Right, So you know, Psalm eighty nine,
41:51
Speaker 2: it's just phenomenal. I can't I sort of can't read
41:54
Speaker 2: it because we want to wrap up. But I would
41:56
Speaker 2: encourage people to go and read some eighty nine talks
42:00
Speaker 2: about you know, I will sing of the step best
42:03
Speaker 2: love the Lord forever. He talks about being there being
42:05
Speaker 2: a faithful witness in the skies, and the faithful witness
42:09
Speaker 2: is himself the Lord. Right, who in this who in
42:14
Speaker 2: the in the in the in the skies can be
42:17
Speaker 2: compared to the Lord. And that's that's that's God's actual name,
42:20
Speaker 2: the tetragrammat and that's the y H w H. Who
42:24
Speaker 2: in the heavenly beings is like the Lord. And you
42:26
Speaker 2: go on down then you read that psum and you'll
42:28
Speaker 2: find out that the actual the witness that he is
42:33
Speaker 2: speaking about is the one who sits on the throne
42:35
Speaker 2: of David. So again Jesus says this to his disciples,
42:40
Speaker 2: those of you have followed me, because you know Peter's
42:43
Speaker 2: asking him the Lord, what you know? We've left everything?
42:45
Speaker 2: You know the direction, and ruly he didn't he want
42:47
Speaker 2: to leave We what do we get? And Jesus says
42:49
Speaker 2: that you will sit on twelve throne when I when
42:52
Speaker 2: I those of your follow me in the in the regeneration, right,
42:55
Speaker 2: follow me into the new world. Right, So he's not
42:57
Speaker 2: even talking about the old. When you follow me in
43:00
Speaker 2: the new creation, you will sit on twelve thrones judging
43:05
Speaker 2: the twelve tribes of Israel, right, So that's not that's
43:10
Speaker 2: not talk about them judging the twelve tribes of Israel
43:12
Speaker 2: in heaven, because you know everybody in heaven comes before
43:17
Speaker 2: the judgment seat of Christ. So Jesus says that as
43:20
Speaker 2: you have sat with if you overcome as I'm sack
43:24
Speaker 2: with my father on his throne, you will sit with
43:26
Speaker 2: me on my throne. So we think that the throne
43:28
Speaker 2: of Jesus's own throne is the one at the right hand,
43:31
Speaker 2: is not. That's the Father's throw the throne which is
43:34
Speaker 2: in view, and which is in view here is Psim
43:36
Speaker 2: eighty nine. The faithful witness is the throne of David.
43:38
Speaker 2: And the only place for the throne of David is Jerusalem.
43:41
Speaker 2: And it's in the land. I mean, that is what
43:43
Speaker 2: Jesus has claimed.
43:45
Speaker 1: Right.
43:45
Speaker 2: So we've mentioned that about the circumcision. So we have
43:49
Speaker 2: the twelve apostles judging, and then we have here in
43:54
Speaker 2: Isai forteen ninety six. He says, it is too light
43:57
Speaker 2: a thing. This is God talking through the prophet to servant.
44:00
Speaker 2: We know who the servant is. It is too light
44:02
Speaker 2: a thing that you should be my servant to raise
44:05
Speaker 2: up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the
44:08
Speaker 2: preserved of Israel. So one of the mandates of the
44:12
Speaker 2: Messiah was to end the exile, was to bring all
44:16
Speaker 2: of the tribes back into the land. Well, that did
44:19
Speaker 2: not happen when Jesus walked the first time, right, that
44:24
Speaker 2: is still in his messianic mandate, because as we know
44:27
Speaker 2: from Eekiel, the land has to be reapportioned amongst the tribes. Right.
44:31
Speaker 2: So again this is this is there's no abrogation here
44:34
Speaker 2: of the promises to Abraham h and the fact is,
44:39
Speaker 2: you know, and for me, Jesus see us the deal.
44:42
Speaker 2: It's his incarnation. And again, you know, we want to
44:47
Speaker 2: argue about Okay, we might accept the mechanics of the incarnation,
44:51
Speaker 2: you know, the three in one and then the hypostatic
44:54
Speaker 2: union and christological arguments and all of that, but the
44:57
Speaker 2: purpose of the incarnation what we the purpose of the
45:00
Speaker 2: incarnation was to bring through the Jewish race salvation not
45:07
Speaker 2: only for the Jewish race, but for the world and
45:09
Speaker 2: for the nation. So that can't be adgrogated. So you know,
45:12
Speaker 2: I liked I'm going to finish with my final thoughts
45:15
Speaker 2: in Mondo. Like John three sixty, we know that one right,
45:17
Speaker 2: for God so loved the world that he gave he's
45:20
Speaker 2: only gotten son. Well, let's just reword that. Then at
45:23
Speaker 2: what we have said, for God so loved the world
45:26
Speaker 2: that he gave them the Jews. Right, But this is
45:30
Speaker 2: something even more profound. For God so loved the world
45:33
Speaker 2: that he became a Jew. Okay, And so to do
45:39
Speaker 2: what to lay claim to the promises of nationhood and
45:44
Speaker 2: the land that was given to the patriarchs. And from
45:47
Speaker 2: that then is the throne, the eternal throne of David
45:52
Speaker 2: from which he will he will rule all the ages
45:54
Speaker 2: to come. So you know, I'm sorry, but you cannot
45:58
Speaker 2: reverse the incarnation with a un resolution, no matter how
46:03
Speaker 2: many are passed. So this is why, you know, if
46:06
Speaker 2: people are staying on this level, and we expect the
46:10
Speaker 2: world to stay on this level of geopolitics. But when
46:12
Speaker 2: you get into who Jesus is, he is a Jew.
46:16
Speaker 2: He's incarnated as a Jew. You can have a change
46:19
Speaker 2: that he circumcised as a Jew. He's taken that incarnation
46:22
Speaker 2: into the resurrection. He sits now at the right hand
46:25
Speaker 2: of the Father, the highest throned in existence, waiting for him,
46:32
Speaker 2: for him to take up his throne on earth, and
46:34
Speaker 2: the heavenly throne and the earthly throne will be as one.
46:39
Speaker 2: Because the other thing we can't have. We can't have
46:41
Speaker 2: the twelve Tribes in heaven as in the New Jerusalem, right,
46:45
Speaker 2: the witness of the twelve Tribes in heaven and the
46:47
Speaker 2: witness of the New Jerusalem. And there's no witness of
46:50
Speaker 2: Jerusalem or the twelve Tribes on earth. That is just
46:54
Speaker 2: not going to wash. That's to be a witness in
46:56
Speaker 2: heaven and a witness on earth. Here ended the lesson.
47:01
Speaker 1: Absolutely I mean, at the end of the day, what
47:03
Speaker 1: we're watching and the reason we're doing this is because
47:06
Speaker 1: Israel became a nation in nineteen forty eight and it
47:09
Speaker 1: forced the world to once again re engage within the
47:13
Speaker 1: scriptures and the prophecies that God gave to Abraham, Isaac
47:16
Speaker 1: and Jacob. And so it's also another evidence that we're
47:19
Speaker 1: approaching the end of the age where God is going
47:21
Speaker 1: to have a conversation with the Jews in order to
47:24
Speaker 1: save them during the seven year tribulation and all the
47:27
Speaker 1: details of what that looks like in order when Jesus
47:30
Speaker 1: comes back, he'll fulfill the promise that he made. You
47:34
Speaker 1: will not see me until you say blessed Zeu comes
47:36
Speaker 1: in the name of the Lord of Matthew twenty three.
47:38
Speaker 1: So when Jesus returns, he has to come back to something,
47:42
Speaker 1: and God has brought Israel back in the land. They're
47:44
Speaker 1: currently in unbelief, but he's bringing him back in order
47:47
Speaker 1: to fulfill all these promises that he made and to
47:50
Speaker 1: restore them and to save them. And again, even like
47:53
Speaker 1: you mentioned, it's again mentioned Luke one thirty two where
47:56
Speaker 1: the angel Gabriel tells Mary his name will be Jesus
48:00
Speaker 1: and he's going to be given the throne of his
48:02
Speaker 1: father David, that that throne has never been in heaven.
48:05
Speaker 1: David had never had a throne in heaven. Jesus will
48:08
Speaker 1: sit and rule from the throne of his father David
48:10
Speaker 1: in Jerusalem. And so as we wrap it up here,
48:13
Speaker 1: I just want everybody to understand that the scripture, and
48:16
Speaker 1: we've only just barely touched the surface, that the Scripture
48:19
Speaker 1: teaches that the land is God's. He's given it to
48:23
Speaker 1: his people and even in an unbelief, and what we're
48:27
Speaker 1: seeing today is a fight over that promise that God made.
48:29
Speaker 1: And there's no surprise that the world wants to get
48:32
Speaker 1: rid of the United Nations and the anti Semitism, they
48:34
Speaker 1: want to get rid of the nation of Israel. Satan
48:37
Speaker 1: wants to get rid of them so that Jesus can't return.
48:40
Speaker 1: That's ultimately what we're seeing here. So Graham, appreciate your
48:43
Speaker 1: time today, and for those watching, I hope you stick around.
48:46
Speaker 1: We're going to continue to get into some other very
48:48
Speaker 1: good stuff as we talk about Jerusalem next time. Jerusalem
48:51
Speaker 1: the City of Vengeance. What a title that will be.
48:54
Speaker 1: So appreciate your watching. Catch us next time.