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Terminator Salvation · Citizen Frame

0:01
There is a storm on the horizon, a time of hardship and pain.
0:06
This battle has been won, but the war against the machines rages on.
0:12
Skynet's global network remains strong, but we will not quit until all of it is destroyed.
0:20
This is John Connor. There is no fate, but what we make.
0:21
Music.
0:38
All right, guys. We're back with the Terminator franchise here at Citizen Frame. That's all I've got.
0:45
All right. Salvation. Terminator Salvation. That's right. Terminator Salvation.
0:49
I saw this at the theater. I remember really enjoying it. It does help seeing
0:52
this kind of movie at the theater because theaters are so loud.
0:55
You know, and the big screen. Yeah, the sound was something.
1:00
That really made this film, I think, a lot better than when I first saw it.
1:05
Seeing it again, still much better effort than when we just got recently that
1:09
piece of shit, which you call the masterpiece, Rising Machines.
1:13
This one we have Charles. We got Charlie Angel's director on board.
1:19
McG. McG. It's like, get over your fucking self, McG. What's your fucking name? What a dork.
1:25
But he's got, I don't mind him. I mean, he did the babysitter films,
1:29
which are pretty fun. just recently.
1:31
So if you like horror films, check those out. They're pretty fun.
1:34
There's a lot of producing.
1:35
So, you know, the cool thing about this film and researching it,
1:38
it is since 2010, the most expensive independently produced film, no studio development.
1:46
And I really liked that. You don't think that bothers me about that when I reflect on it,
1:51
studio must have eventually got involved because i know it's released
1:54
by warner brothers but they didn't
1:57
produce the film there's a difference between yes presenting a
2:01
film and producing yeah but it's like
2:03
it's like netflix films they're they're actually made by and a lot of them are
2:08
made by independent production companies but it's netflix didn't buy them to
2:12
basically broadcast them essentially and yeah exactly and and then they go to
2:19
bidding wars yeah that's what big big studio wants to buy them.
2:23
But there must have been some studio involvement here because this movie is so kind of rough.
2:28
And what I mean by rough is, that's actually not a bad thing,
2:32
but there's something missing here.
2:34
There's been editing going on and I mean the violence.
2:38
And I think the must, I mean, granted, yeah, it wasn't produced by a studio,
2:43
but there's something a little birdy that tells me, I couldn't find any information
2:47
that this movie was supposed to be a good R rated movie.
2:51
In your face, raw, road warrior, you know, steampunk kind of film.
2:58
And the violence seems very cut down or withdrawn.
3:01
Yeah. And maybe that's, because if it's independently produced,
3:06
you're not going to give a shit what a studio thinks.
3:08
Exactly. Unless a studio got involved and says, we'll take it from you,
3:12
but I want this and this and this gone.
3:15
Yeah. There does seem to be, yeah, some sort of editing going on or,
3:20
you know, I think it's affected the lack of tension or the general flow of it.
3:27
I think this would have worked much better as a standalone science fiction film
3:31
as opposed to part of the Terminator franchise.
3:35
I mean, you know, for what we just got with Rise of the Machines,
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I think, I know, I think with this retrospective, I think it's a better film.
3:45
In a whole, if you put it before the Terminator. Yeah, like a prequel?
3:49
Like a prequel. Like we talked, like Rogue One was a pretty good example.
3:54
And I think they did that pretty well. So you can kind of watch them back to back.
3:58
But let's just dive into it. And let's chat about Terminator Salvation.
4:03
And sadly, Stan Winston's last film.
4:06
Yes, it's dedicated to him. Yeah, exactly. And rightfully so.
4:10
Talented man. Fucking so talented. did. Oh yeah, he did all sorts over the years.
4:16
R.R.D. has a cameo, but the cameo is just a cameo and it's just a likeness of
4:21
him just because he could not take the part because he cannot take a part or
4:27
earn any money while you're a governor.
4:30
Governor of California. That's right. The governator. Yeah.
4:35
Yeah. I remember at the time whenever he was, you know, standing for election
4:39
for it and he, I I can't remember, him and his rival, you know,
4:44
who was also running for it, were being interviewed,
4:47
and they were asked a very serious question by the journalist,
4:51
you know, so what are your policies on such and such, you know,
4:53
all this here sort of thing, and I think his rival, you know,
4:57
gave a pretty decent, you know, sort of clear answer, and the audience didn't
5:00
really say much, you know, who were in attendance,
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and then he turned to Arnie and said, I'm watching basically your thoughts on
5:06
all of this, and your rival, and Arnie just quipped, I'm going to terminate
5:09
him, and the audience went wild.
5:14
Arnie's the best. Yeah, he's going to bankrupt California, but he's Arnie.
5:20
Yeah, well, this is it. He's going to terminate the...
5:24
Of all of the Terminator films, all of them, this by far has one hell of a fucking cast.
5:36
Now, that's not to take away of the Terminator an original because there are
5:39
no names or up-and-coming actors at the time, so I can't really say that.
5:43
But for all the Terminator movies we're going to talk about,
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Kristen Bale, Sam Wotherton, Helen Bonham Carter, God rest her soul, taken way too early,
5:53
Antonia Yeltsin, Common, who I like to see, Bryce Dallas Howard,
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Jane Alexander, and obviously always like to see Michael Ironside.
6:02
Again, Michael Ironside, Jane Alexander, two veteran actors,
6:07
very good in of their craft, pointless in these roles.
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They tried to make General Ashtown, played by Michael Ironside,
6:15
badass, but he needed a bigger part here.
6:18
Something, again, something went wrong with the editing room here.
6:23
Or maybe it was the script. Maybe the script was just a bit weak.
6:27
Yeah, maybe. Could be. Yeah.
6:30
We got, we don't get my...
6:34
My Brad Friedel back But we do get the Credits are pretty solid I really do
6:38
enjoy them Danny Elfman's back to do them Not back but there to do them Let's just jump into it.
6:47
You get my I'm good to go And of course those will be quickly taken away from
6:53
me In the next piece of shit we're about to talk about Well if you don't get
6:56
this right I'm going to go on a rant Like Christian Bale went on a rant With the cast member Yeah,
7:03
that was a time where I think, we'll get this out of the way now, I suppose.
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Now, I know the scene he was talking about when it happened,
7:10
and I can understand an actor getting frustrated, especially if you're going,
7:14
if you're, it's just going to point A to point B, here to Batman,
7:18
here to Batman, and you're fucking just balls in the wall, just get it right.
7:22
And you finally do, and something fucks up. Now, we handled it wrong.
7:26
He did apologize and having to the DP or, you know, good buds.
7:31
Heads, but he, I don't think he ever mentioned it, but it's the same thing with Russell Crowe.
7:37
They were going through a time where he just did the machinist where he was
7:40
like 85 pounds or something. Yeah, I remember. We were fucking like that.
7:43
Then he had to bulk up. So he was doing steroids. All actors take them.
7:46
They're not cheating or anything. That's just the way it goes.
7:49
And this is the cause of it. The Roid Ridge. Roid Ridge. They call it.
7:53
Yeah. Russell Crowe went through it, I think, when he was doing Gladiator,
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then gaining it for Beautiful Mind, then doing this.
8:00
So I think Bale says he'll never do these kinds of films again.
8:04
Well, work out for him, but he won't get to this,
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I'd always say that he wouldn't work with McGee again
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after this and he was actually he was worried
8:12
of even becoming involved in it in the first place due to McGee's
8:15
basically previous films like Charlie's Angels and stuff because you know you
8:19
have to remember as well Bale is a very intense serious actor you know and so
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you know I know he's done a few since and obviously he did the Batmans and stuff
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but yeah he's not one for just general sort of blockbusters you know.
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Again you know people are allowed to be human as well you
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know just because they're you know very well paid hollywood stars you
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have to be forgiven at times you know and certainly i you
8:44
know it was just to me it was just a bit entertaining to be honest but you know
8:48
certainly you know we all have our moments let's just say well of all the cast
8:53
and they're they're solid cast nothing against any of them but i'll say this
8:58
christian bale and sam worthington the two leads marcus and john John Connor,
9:03
are by far giving it their all. Oh, totally.
9:07
Hence, especially Christian Bale.
9:10
Oh, 100%. But he always does. He's an intense method actor. What I do love about
9:14
that rant is that he doesn't break his American accent.
9:17
Bale's Welsh. He stays in character.
9:21
You know? See, he's in it. What a pro.
9:24
And he stays as John Connor as Batman, too, because he got that Batman. What's going on?
9:30
Yeah. And that's not his real accent. So even whenever, like,
9:34
sort of off the record, I'm going on a rant against a crew member, he still, what a pro.
9:41
All right. So we open up in 2003 and we got Marcus, who we introduced,
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played by Sam Worthington.
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He was a big up and coming. He hasn't really found his niche,
9:52
unfortunately. He's done some good stuff, besides well-known from Avatar.
9:55
Yeah. Apparently it was Cameron recommended him for the role in this Terminator film. Yeah. Good on him.
10:04
I mean, he's done some good stuff. A lot of his stuff is B stuff now.
10:07
Yeah. But he always goes back to the well, which is clearly Avatar. Yeah.
10:13
Now, we talked about dark tones.
10:17
And the one thing this film definitely gets right is it's a dark tone film.
10:22
Yeah. It is a film about taking humans and testing them.
10:28
It almost have, and I'm not comparing apples to oranges, people.
10:31
Don't be all offended. ended, but it almost has a Holocaust kind of feel to it.
10:36
Well, that's Holocaust. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Apocalyptic. Yes.
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And where machines have taken over and they're capturing all these humans and
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are testing this new, they want this new product to come out,
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which we'll find out would have had to be the T-800.
10:53
But this opening sequence, when it starts with just a simple donation,
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where Marcus is going to be executed,
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we don't know what he's done but marcus the
11:03
way sam witherington sells it is brilliant because he's never
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happy here even when he comes out of
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the explosion where he doesn't know where he is
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who he is he's a decent he's a tortured soul
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for sure we don't know it's heavily suggested well
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obviously he's on death row so he killed someone or or several people but it's
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also heavily suggested that he's a rapist as well yeah that scene with helen
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bottom card is really good in this scene is he plays the doctor who needs his
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organs to survive. And he's a death row.
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And he goes, well, give me a kiss. And he gives her a kiss. And he goes,
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so that's what smells, that's what death tastes like.
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And it was just, fuck, man. Yeah, yeah. It's a dark, dark line,
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like, yeah. But he still signs the release paper.
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And then we cut to 2018.
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And that whole opening sequence is
11:55
kind of, we don't get that much of his darkness for the rest of the film.
12:00
But we get where Marcus is coming from for the rest of the film.
12:04
Yes, and he's trying to redeem himself.
12:07
But he doesn't know why. Yeah.
12:10
It's humanity buried deep within him. Listen, even this opening sequence is
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3,000 fucking times better than anything we got in that last piece of shit.
12:20
Christina Logan? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Nice car. What the fuck? I like your gun.
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Opening scene I won it in 2018,
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I just love the hole, the going down the hole. There's, there's just John Connor.
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He's going down this hole and they find this pretty much prison camp embedded
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in the ground for these people who are being, you know, examined, experimented on.
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And pretty much within a matter of seconds, everyone dies in a mini,
12:51
it's not a, it's not a nuclear explosion. It's an, is it implosion?
12:55
Oh, I don't know. It's some sort of, yeah. It's a, it's a mini nuclear explosion.
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I can't remember what it's called.
13:00
Yeah, something like that. Although I don't think, I wouldn't say,
13:03
well, maybe it is nuclear, but, you know, but it must be like a mini nuclear
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because you don't see that in nuclear.
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There's another term for it. It's not nuclear, but it's something like it. I don't know.
13:16
And John Connor happens to just get out of the hole and he gets to the helicopter.
13:20
This is before everything, the shit goes down.
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And the scene where he's in the helicopter and it's just so in your face and
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the cameraman sitting with him. Obviously he is because he needs to see them.
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But we're kind of the cameraman technically. So it puts you in the helicopter.
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So when he starts spinning out, the audience is with him on that.
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And that's why I think with the theater experience, this movie needed more people
13:45
in the seats because I think to experience something like this,
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it's a lot nicer in the theater when the surround sound and everything like
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that, when the helicopter crashes.
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And then you got the fight with the T-800.
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And it's a great fight scene because the T-800 is
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pretty much already cut in half but it shows how much he's willing
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to kill him he's still which one they're
14:05
t600s oh they're they're they're they're
14:08
before the arnie ones okay yeah yeah they're like a sort of
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yeah because they're not quite as advanced but they're they're actually creepier
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so they are and the fact that they don't move
14:17
as well but then their faces and stuff that they're actually much more effective
14:21
to watch as a viewer you know because they're very creepy be looking you know
14:25
what i really like about this film the fact that so much of the which we've
14:29
never seen before in terminator films of this future wasteland scenes are set
14:34
during the day and daylight.
14:37
Yeah, probably for a couple of reasons, easier to shoot and you,
14:43
and it's not really a cheat though either, because I think that daylight scenes,
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especially a film like this, you can really more of an appreciation for what
14:52
they, what they, what they've done, what kind of university they've created.
14:55
Yeah. So I think it's not, it's, I think it's decent that they did that.
14:59
We don't get to the night shots really until the finale.
15:01
Yeah. It does sort of go against what
15:04
Kyle Reese says in the original about how they can only
15:07
come out at night you know to fight the robots the
15:10
terminators but you know this is before this
15:13
is like 11 years before 2029 so you can still sort of get away with it so after
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the explosion goes marcus comes crawling out yes how he fucking survived and
15:25
but he's he's crawling out of the test facility so we know i put i know it's
15:32
not supposed to be a twist,
15:33
but I knew right away that the paperwork he signed was to make him a T-800.
15:39
Of course, yeah. It was pretty obvious, like, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if that
15:43
was supposed to be, you know, surprise, but I was like, no.
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It's still an effective scene where John Connor finds out and John Connor,
15:51
like, you know, has him, like, basically chained up.
15:53
Yeah. That scene we'll get to, but yeah, it reminded me of RoboCop when When
16:00
they show Robocop what he actually looks like without all the shelling and shit.
16:04
And he goes nuts. He's scared shitless. And Sam Worthington really sells it
16:09
when he finds out what he is. Because he doesn't know. He's a monster.
16:11
He doesn't know. He's Frankenstein's monster yet. Yeah. Like that?
16:16
Frankenstein's monster. Yeah.
16:19
Pretty good. I'm referencing fucking Mary Shelley over here. You're welcome, y'all.
16:25
Yeah, yeah. Classic literary references and all sorts.
16:28
This is a very high brow podcast of course fucking right people are like god
16:32
kieran reeds now not just dirty magazines anymore well i think it was the short
16:41
story version in penthouse.
16:45
With pictures so the now what i meant when the beginning when i was talking
16:51
about uh this can does pretty play well as a prequel to the original is because
16:56
they mentioned this machine This device,
16:58
the sonic sound, this dog whistle, as you can say, that can shut down the machines.
17:05
And this kind of plants the seed for them, why they're able to send a T-800
17:11
in Terminator 2 to protect John Connor,
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because now they know how to kind of control these machines with this new device.
17:20
So they do plant that seed, which I thought was kind of fun and clever. Yeah.
17:25
So we are introduced to all these different characters. I liked,
17:28
it took me a while to grow on our boy Kyle Reese.
17:34
I like Anton Yelchin a lot and God, it sucks how he passed and horrible death
17:38
and it sucks. Yeah. Terrible. Freak accident.
17:41
I know him from The Green Room, which is a wonderful, one of his last films
17:44
he did, which is really good. And of course he was great as Chekhov in the Star Trek. Star Trek.
17:50
So sadly missed. He had a big career ahead of him.
17:53
But um i tell you really
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the problem is people look at him and they're like i don't see i
17:59
don't see michael bean well you don't but if you close your
18:02
eyes and you listen to him he really does nail the accent he does sound a lot
18:06
like kyle reese unlike jay courtney which we'll get to in the next podcast he
18:11
expresses the vulnerability of kyle reese very well and and you know what But
18:17
when I first watched this in the cinema,
18:19
I didn't like him as Kyle Reese, a young Kyle Reese.
18:22
But watching this again for the podcast, I could bet a lot more.
18:26
And I think he does a very good job, actually.
18:31
He does. It takes a while for him to meet. There's a little inconsistency with
18:36
his character in this because the problem I had was when he first meets him,
18:39
yeah, he's got some cool traps when they kind of trap one of the robots,
18:43
a T-600, as you call them.
18:45
And they take him down. thought that was kind of fun
18:48
but he seemed kind of like a clueless idiot at
18:50
the same time i know so we got to keep in mind there's smarts there for the
18:56
way he traps these these robots but at the same time he's naive and childish
19:00
and it's also he's only like what 17 in this so um and don't forget as well
19:05
the kyle reese that we met in the original had been mentored for
19:10
quite a lot of years by john connor so this is before this is when he when he
19:15
literally is young and stupid a young and stupid teen but he still has yeah no no it it's definitely.
19:23
Works for me now but it didn't at the time i must admit
19:26
the only thing it doesn't work for this film and then it's a big one
19:29
and that's the mute girl yeah or kid
19:32
whatever it is yeah she's just stupid and annoying yeah
19:36
there's no there's no point just just for
19:39
they're only trying to build tension to the
19:41
audience because oh there's a child in the mix now well it's also
19:44
to like you know spielberg does with the jurassic park films it's like throw
19:49
a kid in so that the kids in the audience can identify with them but you know
19:53
what it's a terminator film i don't want no fucking stupid kid in there or you
19:57
know if you have one fucking bump them off by t600 or something Because you know what?
20:02
I don't give a shit. I don't want annoying kids in Terminator films.
20:06
The good thing is the kid doesn't last. Gets kidnapped, so. Little fucker.
20:11
At least they made the child mute. That was important.
20:15
Can't stand children i can't stand especially can't stand children
20:18
who can speak yeah yeah well there you go at least they give
20:21
us a bit a bit to run with by making her not talk they met
20:24
they met us halfway whoa whoa cut the citizen from
20:27
the citizen frame guys hate kids yeah but
20:30
we need kids it's a sense of peril i got
20:33
it make the little fucker mute yeah well it's
20:37
like it's it's almost like i know you say this wasn't big studio
20:39
but it's almost like it's studio note saying we need a kid
20:42
in there for the kids watching this to identify with but
20:45
they've said well yeah but kids are pretty annoying so let's
20:49
make the little fucker mute you know it's
20:52
like having their cake and eating it yeah exactly now this
20:56
whole this whole scene when we meet jane alexander and that small group in the
21:00
gas station yes this was fun this this is this is where this kind of felt like
21:06
a transformers film a little bit yeah i was gonna say that and because you You got the bike robots now.
21:13
We're going to be. Yeah, motorbike combinators.
21:15
Which I think are pretty badass, to be honest with you. Yeah.
21:17
And then you got this big machine that's pretty much just a prison. With a claw. A prison.
21:23
And this whole action sequence just doesn't let down, and it's fast paced, and it's quick cut.
21:29
But it reminded me a lot, a lot of the Road Warrior, this whole sequence.
21:35
Just about the escape and, you know, you're obviously dealing with a truck,
21:39
a semi-truck, and you got the bikes coming to try to raid you and stuff like that.
21:45
Yeah. This is where I, again, you're not going to see much violence because
21:49
they're robots, so we'll probably get some oil spillage as blood.
21:54
And that's why, I think that's why when I say the violence is that maybe it's
21:57
not their fault because, well, they're robots.
22:00
You can see their heads get blown out, but we're not going to see blood anywhere.
22:03
No, exactly. They don't have blood.
22:05
Yeah, so maybe that's why there is violence, but when it's there,
22:09
it's more geared toward the enemy than it is the civilians.
22:13
And if we did get violence from the civilians, it'd be torture in the experiment
22:17
room, and I really don't care about seeing that. That's fine with me. Yeah.
22:22
But you probably need a sick fuck.
22:24
I think while this is pretty well realized,
22:29
I think with the original, it's
22:32
just the sheer intensity of the threat of the
22:35
terminator that blows anything that came
22:38
after away you know and the intensity of the
22:40
chases and stuff you know the proper threat that you feel you just don't quite
22:45
feel it well you're not watching this you're not yeah and you can't and that's
22:51
because we know who these things are now yeah these guys are prepared well semi-prepared
22:57
pretty much or are prepared actually actually, to fight them.
23:00
And we've been seeing them for the last couple films.
23:03
And they're not set in a, before all the shit went down, he's not going into
23:11
a civilian neighborhood, going to a poor woman's house named Sarah Connor and
23:14
blowing her away with a gun. Sarah Connor.
23:17
So it's pretty much two military, or both trained people.
23:22
It's a war film. This is not only a war film. I mean, it is literally a war
23:26
film, albeit with a science fiction twist.
23:29
Yeah, I guess my point is that these are.
23:34
Renegades looking to take back what was once theirs against robots,
23:39
where the first one was just a killer, a serial killer, technically. Yep.
23:44
Just going in and doing anything he can to kill.
23:48
You're not going to get that with this. That planted the seed.
23:51
This is a whole, this is the universe.
23:53
Yeah. I would actually agree with that. Yeah, because basically we're dealing
23:57
with soldiers here fighting in a war whereas the original is basically a completely
24:02
innocent young woman and very vulnerable and naive young woman.
24:07
Speaking of,
24:10
The woman we are introduced to Blair. Yes.
24:14
The pilot that gets shot down, that runs into Marcus.
24:19
Pointless character. Yeah. Again, you need a female lead.
24:23
I understand that. And I would have got somebody else. Nothing against her.
24:28
I wanted somebody who was war ravaged. Like, you know.
24:31
Like a Sigourney Weaver. She looks like she's just stepped off a catwalk.
24:35
Yeah. To a fucking apocalyptic war. I would have easily put Jamie Lee in this role.
24:41
Right. Well. Jamie Lee Curtis, Janet Lee, Jennifer, that's Janet Lee, she's dead.
24:47
Jennifer Jason Lee would have been good in this role, but they went with, I don't know.
24:53
I just, this actress hasn't done much since and nothing against her or anything,
24:57
but of all the cast, of all the cast we're surrounded by, this one feels the
25:04
one that she would hoard in.
25:06
Yeah. She looks, you know, she's too good looking and too, like,
25:11
sort of, you know, she looks really healthy and well.
25:14
She doesn't look like an apocalyptic nuclear war survivor, you know.
25:19
It's like the scene, and they just literally met 10 minutes ago.
25:23
She's bathing or something. She's taking her shirt off and she's holding her breasts.
25:29
And Marcus is like, what the fuck are you doing here?
25:33
He doesn't know what's going on. he's he's trying to figure out
25:36
who he is as a human being and she's trying to get yum yum time yeah well
25:39
i think that's that's also a scene where it's um
25:42
suggested that he was once in his previous life
25:45
a rapist because you see the look he gives her but then he like sort of he like
25:49
steps away from it you know on top of the scene with helena bonham carter with
25:53
the kiss as well you know in the opening scene oh yeah yeah you know but then
25:59
then you get the side of them who these scavengers,
26:02
these rapists pretty much show up and he just takes them all down,
26:06
which is actually a nice little fight scene and shows that there's a good side
26:11
there. Yes, exactly. He's conflicted.
26:15
So there's a lot going on. The first half you kind of have me.
26:20
There's a little, oh, there's not really a lull. It's pretty,
26:23
if there's a lull, it's pretty quick.
26:26
There's not a lot of sappy moments like Like when John Connor is kissing Bryce
26:31
Dallas Howard, his wife, I guess you could say. She's pregnant.
26:34
She's another pointless character.
26:37
No she's nothing to do here apart from
26:40
being pregnant no because she kind of gives the
26:43
odd order but sure anyone could have done that well she she kind
26:46
of does the she's the she's kind
26:49
of like second in charge almost next to common i think
26:51
would be up there the thing is he should be a
26:54
part common should have been a part i like him yeah what what the
26:57
issue i think was with bryce dallas howard this was
27:00
originally set up as the first in a trilogy which never happened and
27:03
i think she was going to be given much more to do in
27:07
terms of acting and sort of you know a role in the later films i think i mean
27:12
it could be wrong but i mean obviously i wasn't there when they were sort of
27:15
making it but so i think they were just setting up her character really in this
27:19
one but because it ended up being just a one-off it does look as though like she's basically.
27:26
Hasn't much to do but she doesn't i think
27:29
the problem is the focus is is so on marcus and
27:33
on john yeah on kyle that the
27:36
other ones are going to seem shoehorned in yeah they're
27:39
basically supporting characters yeah and that's not
27:42
a bad thing either yeah anybody could have done the part but it's nice get to
27:46
get up and comers and she was an up and comer at the time yes so i see why they
27:51
did it doesn't she wasn't bad or anything no no she can act and she can she
27:55
does her job but it's just a character i mean they never follow through with the pregnancy,
28:00
subplot i mean i'm assuming that was going to come in an next film which didn't
28:04
happen but it's just she's pregnant like you know so what you know it's never
28:08
followed up it's never sort of you know elaborated on but yeah i mean obviously
28:14
you know they didn't get a sequel to of this, so to speak,
28:18
you know, a direct sequel as opposed to what we did get.
28:21
So I can sort of understand that as well. It wasn't a bomb.
28:26
No, I know what. None of the Terminators really tank.
28:30
A lot of them were critically panned. That's where we'll get to Genesis.
28:34
This one shouldn't be critically panned. This one's pretty fun. I mean, it's...
28:38
I think it's the best sequel. I haven't seen Dark Fate yet. No,
28:41
wait till we get to Dark Fate. I'm still sticking up for that one until I see it again.
28:45
Well, I mean, I haven't seen it yet. So based on the sequels that I have seen,
28:49
I think Salvation is the best sequel.
28:51
And I include two in that. No, no.
28:54
Judgment Day is still the best. And by the way, this wouldn't be a sequel.
28:59
Yeah, well, it's technically a prequel. Yeah.
29:03
You know nothing of the movie business. It's both.
29:07
I do like how he finds out he's a robot. Because we all kind of know when watching
29:12
the film that he's a robot, right?
29:14
Yeah. And she goes, oh, it's okay. I know where everything is in the minefield.
29:17
It only attracts something that's magnetic. I'm like, uh-oh.
29:20
Yeah, like his fucking insides.
29:24
So, yeah. yeah again um bl does intense and shirty brilliant in real life and on the screen,
29:32
and this scene i think the best scene in the entire
29:35
film is actually where marcus discovers he's robocop basically and um bl is
29:41
disgusted with him you know what i mean he's a fucking machine he's here to
29:45
kill me you know this sort of thing and he's you know got him chained up basically
29:48
like crucified almost really good scene especially with bl you know being intense bl,
29:55
Yeah, I mean, if they find out he's, he's a human heart, brain,
29:59
it's obviously skin and stuff like that, but the rest of them is pretty much.
30:05
Oh, by the way, Linda Hamilton is in this film. Yeah, she's just a voice,
30:09
though, in the recording. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At least she came back to do it. Good on her.
30:13
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Only a couple of lines, but at least they didn't get some
30:15
bad voice actress or the actress we're going to get to get. Oh,
30:19
don't, we'll get to that. Fuck me.
30:21
Terrible actress. Oh, brutal. This one, we're all being serious, guys.
30:25
Just wait until we talk Terminator Genisys. I ain't going to turn with it.
30:28
I don't know if you tear that fucker to shreds. I ain't going to turn with it.
30:30
Like, you know. That movie had such potential.
30:32
Okay, let's jump into this. It's a different podcast But yeah It adds a good
30:38
connection to the original Actually the original too With having Linda Hamilton
30:43
come back Even if it is just a voice cameo But they have the photo and stuff
30:47
You know part of the gas station As well,
30:51
Here's where I'm confused Oh wait This is where I get confused with sequels Or time travel sequels.
30:58
Wouldn't Connor trust him Well he
31:01
does he'll learn to trust him obviously but wouldn't he learn what
31:05
because of what happened in judgment day possibly yeah
31:08
i mean there is a suggestion there that not technically
31:11
judgment day hasn't happened because they haven't learned how to control the.
31:16
T800 till they learn that little machine they have the little sonic thing but
31:20
no but it's happened for john because he was a kid and he is basically his mentor
31:24
was that's what i'm saying yeah so i mean yeah i think maybe you You know,
31:29
I mean, there is a suggestion there that in Connor's mind,
31:32
there's a, but not all Terminators are bad Terminators, you know,
31:35
and then he's maybe thinking, hasta la vista, baby,
31:39
I now know why you cry.
31:42
So, yeah, maybe that was going on in Tent Spill's head, you know.
31:49
So, let me ask you this. This host.
31:53
I know Marcus needed to escape. I understand that. Yes. But Blair helps him.
31:59
Why all of a sudden she's this fucking... I don't get her arc.
32:04
I don't get why she's... She's just a plot device.
32:07
She is simply a plot device for Marcus to escape and go to the Cyberdyne building thing, Skynet HQ.
32:16
She is simply... All her character is there to do is get marcus to john connor
32:21
and then get marcus to escape she has a simple plot device that's all her character
32:25
is but then and see all that what about all this bullshit where she's like falling
32:29
in love with them and stuff you know completely it just felt yeah forced yeah forced totally.
32:37
So she tries to help him escape yes and
32:40
she's falling in love with him after like two minutes although to be fair
32:43
it is no offense that happens to me all the time oh to
32:47
be fair i think in a way it's because it's so it's it is explained and that
32:51
with the scene where he saves her from the rapist scavenger types yeah but she'll
32:58
still get naked in front of him before that and she was like look what i have
33:01
i mean she was pretty much you know showing her knockers off yeah so
33:07
this this whole this whole fight scene at the end here we only oh let me get
33:13
back to what i was So Marcus, as they're being ambushed by the,
33:19
good guys and they're going to blow everyone up or blow him up and her,
33:24
he jumps on top of her to protect her.
33:28
From the explosion. That's why Connor decides, okay, maybe we still let this
33:34
guy see what's going on with this guy.
33:36
Yeah. Is that correct? Is that what happened? I can't remember.
33:38
Well, there's that as well, but he also, whenever they're at the,
33:40
like the, the pond lake thing, you know, whenever like the fucking squid robot
33:44
terminators are, are like attacking them and stuff.
33:47
There's also where he, he says he can get him in. He can get him.
33:50
He, he'll basically get him into Skynet HQ.
33:54
He, he'll basically help him. because he's one of them. Yeah.
33:57
So his idea is his body. Yes, exactly.
34:00
They'll not attack him because he's basically, he's Terminator. So he is.
34:05
And so he basically says, basically John Connor has been told by Michael Ironside
34:11
that he's not allowed to go there and save the people because Michael Ironside's
34:15
a badass and he's being Michael Ironside and he's sneering.
34:17
He's saying, ah, fuck him. We're just going to- He's not wrong.
34:20
No, no, but it's a tactical- He's got a point. It's a tactical, yeah, yeah.
34:24
Yeah, it's a tactical thing. but connor his humanity he
34:27
wants to go and save oh but also especially kyle reese because he knows that
34:31
he's going to be his father and he's going to have to send him back in time
34:33
so connor wants to save the people but especially kyle reese and basically marcus
34:39
says i'll get you in i'll help you out we'll save the people that's when he
34:43
that's when he grabs the mic and he goes batman
34:46
yeah on the general he's like i'm moving over the people.
34:52
Good for you Good for you Okay that's the worst Batman ever No no I'm doing
35:00
Christian Bale That's even worse,
35:06
Well you know I mean I'm not a method actor Like Bale so you know give me a break,
35:15
So So there's a I think I'm for a wrath with you like Blackbeard did Fuck off,
35:24
Good for you Good for you Oh my god you know what that sounds like It sounds like,
35:32
Stallone underwater.
35:36
Or something. That's terrible. That's terrible. Look it, I haven't rehearsed
35:38
this and, you know, I'm not a method actor like P.L. All right.
35:44
So I think the best shot in the whole film is just a look.
35:49
That's right. People are like, God, what could he be talking about? Yeah.
35:54
But it's when Marcus, all he does is walk up to Skynet, all these droids are
36:00
looking at him and they put the guns and they scan him and he says Because he's, he can come in.
36:07
Yes. The minute he gets greenlit, he's allowed to go in, his eyes drop a second. Yeah. Because he knows.
36:15
He realizes he's not human. He's not human. Yeah.
36:19
And he's one of them. Yeah. It's a great, the best arc of the film is that one
36:24
little shot where he finally knows who he really is.
36:27
He's a Terminator. And not only that, there he goes on the full redemption arc as well.
36:31
By the end with his last sort of basically one of his last remnants of humanity
36:37
his heart literally you know and when we get to that moment we'll discuss it
36:42
thanks yeah spoilers you just.
36:47
You're just like the term you're just like fucking the Terminator movie you
36:49
just fucking fly all over you'll go from past to present you got your own fucking
36:54
timeline don't you exactly exactly I have these notes outlined ready to go and
36:59
you just gotta fucking I was backing up,
37:03
What you were saying about Marcus's look Yes So I was backing you up And this
37:09
is the thanks you get And then when I do talk about the sacrifice You could
37:14
have went Kieran that's right And that backs up what you said earlier When that makes sense,
37:19
Oh so now you're going on a Christian Bale rant Right right right.
37:25
I'll fucking tear you,
37:28
i'm gonna take my steroids next time yeah,
37:34
Yeah, the general's dead. Yeah, he gets the shit blown out of him.
37:38
I love his commander goes, yeah, we're fucked. He goes, what's going on?
37:41
He's like, yeah, we're fucked. And there's submarines blown to smithereens.
37:45
So it is. I do love, I do like the scene where they get Marcus and you got Helen Bonacotta back.
37:53
And God love her. She went through a tragedy while making this film.
37:56
Four members of her family died in a crash. Yeah, really sad.
38:00
So she probably had more. I would like to see more of her, but clearly we weren't
38:04
going to get that because of the tragedy. But I do like they used her.
38:08
See, I was thrown off. I almost thought there was a twist coming up to where she never had cancer.
38:14
She was just using him to get his body so they can experiment.
38:17
I thought she was going to be like a bad guy.
38:19
Yeah. But that's kind of- Remember that close kiss?
38:22
Well, that could have been, but she could have come back and they decided to do it this way.
38:26
But I kind of like this way better because it plays on that.
38:29
The first couple of minutes here, you're like, oh my God, she used him the whole
38:32
time. Then you find out it's just an AI program playing on all the people he knows.
38:38
Yeah, yeah. And taking that persona. It then becomes like John Connor and stuff. Yeah.
38:42
Yeah, yeah. It's basically Skynet fucking about, which is actually sort of like
38:47
a personification of Skynet, which is followed up in the next film with Matt
38:52
Smith. But we'll get, again, we'll get to that.
38:55
And we also find out, it's a nice little, I could be wrong, but I was always
39:00
wondering, I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast why Marcus survived that
39:02
huge explosion at the little prison there in the beginning.
39:05
Yeah. And you find out he was supposed to survive that because he's the bait.
39:10
He was always the bait. To get John Connor. He always wanted them to come there.
39:16
And he was going to come for Kyle Reese. So Kyle Reese was technically the bait
39:20
as well. Yeah. And then he got. But...
39:25
Arnold Arnie. You know what? I mean, obviously, CGI wasn't as advanced.
39:30
I think it's pretty good.
39:32
It is effective and it does work, but there is the uncanny valley of the CGI Arnie's face.
39:38
I can understand that they've realized this, so it's not long before he gets
39:43
blown up or something and he goes back to being the T-800 exoskeleton.
39:49
But it's a fun cameo. You know, I liked it.
39:53
I thought the effect was good. You're right. They quickly removed the face.
39:58
But I thought it worked for what I was looking at.
40:02
And the other day, people don't care. They just want to see Arnie.
40:05
Yeah. They shoot a clever light to be fair, and that it's like from the side
40:09
or from the distance or whatever.
40:11
And then quickly he gets his skin melted off. So it's a cameo,
40:15
but they're not stupid as well. They don't overdo it.
40:18
I like the fact that we see how John Connor got his scar Yes,
40:23
yes I really like that as well Good continuity,
40:26
Exactly, the one thing that just does Get right, the continuity is pretty fair
40:30
Yeah it is, no this is a proper Terminator Film, I believe this is more of a
40:34
Terminator film than three And most definitely Five,
40:39
you know I do like the little playback to the melted metal Yes From Judgment
40:44
Day and pours it all on top of the tea.
40:47
I love Method Men on that thing. That's such a good death.
40:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's, you know, I think this film's underrated
40:55
and I think it gets a bum rap.
40:58
Well, yeah, we're almost there. Quantum leap, we're almost there.
41:03
Okay. Fucking hell. I can't do this anymore.
41:08
I try to give and I give.
41:13
So, Jesus. Who was that? Who was that? You want to get an impression of him?
41:17
That was perfect. That was Batman.
41:19
Batman, right? But I do like the fact, like you give it away to everybody already,
41:23
but when John Connor gets that fucking thing through his chest,
41:27
and you didn't see that coming because you know he's going to survive,
41:32
but then once it does happen, you kind of realize where this is going.
41:36
Marcus Fullark is going to be killing himself.
41:40
To survive, to let John survive. I mean, I'm no medical doctor. I'm no Quincy Emmy.
41:50
Quincy? Or Dr. Kildare. But as far as I'm aware, there's a bit of cheating going
41:56
on with the heart transplant, which I don't think can be done,
41:59
just like in some sort of desert in the open air, as quickly as that.
42:03
But I mean, what do I know?
42:06
Excuse me. It's Ron Howard's daughter.
42:10
Oh, well, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Far enough there.
42:15
But anyway, for dramatic purposes, yes, there is a bit of cheating,
42:18
you know, in terms of the medical stuff. I think. I'm not a doctor.
42:21
You know? They could have made, I think they should have made the wound less, maybe a little closer.
42:26
I mean, he got it pretty much in pale. He'd be dead.
42:30
Yeah, or he would have died instantly. He would have been paralyzed, at least.
42:33
But we'll go with it, but it should have been more of a different kind of wound,
42:37
something where his heart's failing or I don't give a fuck.
42:41
Maybe he's got blockers from eating too many fucking bounty bars or Twinkies.
42:44
I don't know. Or taking too much steroids.
42:46
Yeah. I do love when he's dying and he gives Kyle Reese his colors, his jacket.
42:51
Yeah. And then he leaves. I'll be like, fucker, give me my coat back. Yeah, exactly.
42:55
Give me that back, you little shit. You have to earn it. Even that little mute bastard.
43:00
Yeah. Even though you're well become with that, but you know what I mean?
43:03
Yeah. So when Marcus is dying and is what was going to die, Mutey,
43:10
the little mute person, holds his robotic hand.
43:14
I was like, oh, Jesus. I know. Pure corny cheese.
43:17
But also- But I do love the final shot.
43:21
I think it's gorgeous. It reminded me of something from Apocalypse Now.
43:24
All the helicopters are flying into the sunset.
43:27
That's a gorgeous shot. And at the end, it just says, for Stan Winston. Yeah. Ah.
43:32
But uh there you go yeah yeah
43:35
uh yep like i say i think this is
43:38
probably yeah yeah i'm
43:41
gonna go out in a lemon say this is the best terminator sequel it's good
43:45
i'm giving it a pass 100 i think it plays as a good prequel i i'd still say
43:50
i'd keep this in the group i'm still holding my i'm i'm i still think terminator
43:55
salvation terminator 84 terminator judgment day and dark fate all All play a good story.
44:02
I got Ross Stark fit again. I might change my mind.
44:05
But this film, those three films are far superior than that last piece of shit
44:11
that you call the masterpiece.
44:14
And then, well, our cards are on the table. Genesis, Jesus.
44:19
Genesis is the one film that I have seen, seen three times now,
44:24
that I have a smile on my face. Oh, yes. And then they take it away from you.
44:29
They have this moment where you have something. Why'd you take that back?
44:33
Look, you know, it's coming up on the next podcast.
44:36
We'll dive into it. I have major issues with it.
44:39
All right, guys, we're going to wrap this one up. We are getting there.
44:43
Two more to go, and then we're going to be diving in. We decided we're going
44:47
to do some Westerns. Yep. Cowboy time.
44:51
So we're trying to pick our list. Shoot them, cowboy.
44:54
Your favorite, Scream Cowboy. Yeah. And so, yeah, give us a shout at Citizen
45:01
Freight, one of the best podcasts on Instagram or Facebook.
45:04
If you have any cowboy movies, or, you know, we're thinking,
45:07
see, the problem is- What about Cowboy? We'll do that.
45:09
Oh, jeez, you just jumped right, you just cut me off right there just so you
45:12
can get that in there, didn't you, you sick bastard?
45:16
Stick me in Frankenstein, dirty mags. Wow. So, this is way too early in the morning for this shit.
45:25
But yeah, so give us, see, when you do these Western month or something,
45:30
we want to pick Western, but we don't want to do all A-list Westerns,
45:33
right? Because, you know, we want to pick Western. You want to be a squirtum cowboy?
45:36
Yeah, shut up. shut up. So we know Tombstone was going on there because it's a fucking classic.
45:42
And we probably know Pale Rider is probably going on there because it's my favorite Clint.
45:47
Well, we got two more we got to pick. And so if you have any ideas,
45:50
give us a shout. Something maybe even Blazing Saddles. Just have fun.
45:54
What about Young Guns 2? I know we did Young Guns, the first one, a couple of years ago.
45:59
Oh, maybe I can rip on that one. Yeah, I mean, because I'm a fan of it.
46:03
So that might make for an interesting podcast.
46:05
Yeah, make me hate you more. That's great. Let's do that one.
46:09
All right, guys. We're going to wrap this one up. Oh, Jesus Christ.
46:14
I need more coffee. All right, guys. Talk soon.
46:18
Music.