Latest / Simply Bitcoin / 30 Year Finance EXPERT: $200T Is Coming For Bitcoin!! | EP 1260

Transcript

30 Year Finance EXPERT: $200T Is Coming For Bitcoin!! | EP 1260 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Wall Street is late to Bitcoin, but the man who was creating and
• 0:04
  interested in digital money 30 years ago in the 90s just
• 0:08
  dropped a $200 trillion Bitcoin bombshell.
• 0:12
  And today we're going to be walking you through the mass of
• 0:14
  what happens if Bitcoin solves this $200 trillion problem and
• 0:19
  analyze what Adam Back might know that you don't.
• 0:23
  Let's just jump straight into the clip and we will get to the
• 0:26
  mass. Is, is, if you look at Michael
• 0:29
  Saylor's thought process, it actually applies to all the
• 0:31
  companies with large cash reserves, which is he was
• 0:34
  thinking about the inflation rate being high compared to the
• 0:39
  interest rate at that time during COVID.
• 0:40
  Now the interest rates are a little higher, but I think
• 0:43
  realistically with the amount of M2 monetary expansion, even
• 0:46
  though the inflation rates are supposedly down, we're going to
• 0:50
  see financial repression, IE inflation rates way above the
• 0:54
  prime rates. And so for anybody with cash or
• 0:57
  U.S. Treasuries, they're literally
• 0:58
  losing 5 to 10% a year. And so, you know, all of the
• 1:02
  companies with cash reserve have a fiduciary duty to preserve
• 1:05
  shareholder value and they're failing at that if they're not
• 1:08
  holding on to that cash reserve value.
• 1:10
  And effectively, you know, over the last decade, nothing has
• 1:14
  outperformed bickering. So I think in a way, the
• 1:16
  treasury companies adopting Bitcoin as part of the treasury
• 1:21
  are also using the idea that Bitcoin is effectively the
• 1:25
  hurdle rate. If you can't outperform Bitcoin,
• 1:27
  you should at least hold some of it.
• 1:30
  And you know, in the long run, once Bitcoin is fully adopted,
• 1:34
  of course it won't be growing as fast because it would be
• 1:36
  saturated. But I think it brings the
• 1:39
  prospect that, you know, Bitcoin is the hurdle rate and you need
• 1:43
  to outperform Bitcoin slightly as an operating company, you
• 1:46
  know, using profits to buy more Bitcoin, using that as your cash
• 1:49
  reserve in in the far future. But I think in the meantime,
• 1:53
  it's effectively all all the people vying to accumulate more
• 1:56
  Bitcoin via whatever means, individuals, you know, they're
• 1:59
  selling some investments and buying Bitcoin or borrowing
• 2:03
  something against something that's unmortgaged, something
• 2:06
  low risk to accumulate a bit more of Bitcoin is all kind of
• 2:09
  an arbitrage to accumulate Bitcoin before it gets out of
• 2:12
  reach. So I think the the treasury
• 2:15
  companies are using the corporate vehicle, you know,
• 2:17
  corporate structures, they have the bonds, the converts,
• 2:19
  etcetera to use that, you know, beneficial access to capital
• 2:24
  from being a public company to do that same arbitrage.
• 2:27
  And so I think you know, the scalability of that arbitrage is
• 2:31
  enormous because you're talking about, you know, how Finney's
• 2:33
  200 trillion addressable market of extracting the monetary
• 2:36
  premium from all different types of assets, real estate, bonds,
• 2:39
  stock market. So I think that's the arbitrage.
• 2:44
  OK, OK. You heard it there, Adam, back
• 2:48
  going into breaking down the problem and we're literally
• 2:50
  seeing this play out in real time.
• 2:52
  And of course, I'm not alone. We are experimenting on the show
• 2:54
  today. But I got the wonder Kid
• 2:56
  himself, Mitchell Hoddle on the show today.
• 2:59
  One of my favorite zoomers out there, author, You know, as you
• 3:02
  guys know, ask Sailor this very tough question, which we will be
• 3:06
  talking about later. But before we get into that,
• 3:09
  look at this chart guys and we've been covering this and I
• 3:12
  know there's a lot of skepticism around this idea of Bitcoin
• 3:15
  following global M2 liquidity money supply, But as of now, it
• 3:20
  does seem to be lining up pretty good and we did kind of see a
• 3:24
  little dip here, which you can see on the chart here.
• 3:27
  Why is of course global M2 liquidity and I think Bitcoin
• 3:31
  does have, I think the, the normal view that everyone's
• 3:34
  having, it's got about a three month delay on this M2 global
• 3:37
  liquidity. And we did just see this little
• 3:40
  dump here. So a lot of people been saying
• 3:42
  if it follows this exactly as we're all kind of predicting,
• 3:46
  125K literally in weeks is probably on the horizon.
• 3:52
  Now diving into a couple of things that Adam Back was
• 3:55
  saying, of course, the Bitcoin treasury play, this is all the
• 3:58
  hype. If you guys saw the Bitcoin
• 4:00
  conference, there's basically 2 main themes over there, Bitcoin
• 4:04
  treasury strategies and of course stablecoins, which we
• 4:07
  won't get into stablecoins today, but the Bitcoin treasury
• 4:11
  strategy is exploding. As you can see here.
• 4:14
  TFTC tweeted this this morning, corporate Bitcoin adoption is
• 4:18
  exploding. 60 plus public companies now hold Bitcoin on
• 4:20
  their balance sheet. That is 3% of all the Bitcoin
• 4:24
  now sits on corporate treasuries.
• 4:26
  And so everyone is trying to follow what Sailor is doing and
• 4:29
  it's all based on one fundamental problem which we've
• 4:33
  been covering on the show. If you are even a little bit
• 4:36
  interested or studying macroeconomic make plays right
• 4:40
  now, there is a lot of concern in the bond market.
• 4:43
  The Trump administration is doing whatever they can to get
• 4:46
  interest into people buying bonds.
• 4:48
  It's not really working. People around the world,
• 4:51
  countries around the world are dropping bonds right now, hence
• 4:54
  why the interest rates are going higher.
• 4:56
  We saw there was a whole debacle in Japan around bond, which is
• 4:59
  basically the Canary in the coal mine here.
• 5:01
  What happens in Japan does have an effect here in the US.
• 5:05
  Well, the point remains the same.
• 5:07
  People are looking for alternative investments.
• 5:09
  They do not want to hold bonds right now.
• 5:11
  Everyone is scared of government debt.
• 5:15
  They are not touching it with the 10 foot pole.
• 5:17
  And every administration is doing whatever they can to
• 5:20
  essentially get more interest into people buying bonds.
• 5:24
  And it doesn't seem to be working because now we have an
• 5:27
  alternative. And remember yesterday I was
• 5:29
  covering Ray Dalio, who is basically saying, hey, there's a
• 5:32
  looming debt crisis on the horizon.
• 5:34
  In three years, probably no one's going to be touching
• 5:37
  bonds. They probably should be buying
• 5:39
  gold and Bitcoin now going further, Adam back literally
• 5:43
  referenced in the white white paper, the only person
• 5:46
  referenced in the white paper in the actual 9 page PDF.
• 5:50
  Of course there's why why days B money Adam Adam back and there's
• 5:55
  there's some alluding to Timothy Mays cypherpunk manifesto, but
• 5:59
  how Finney the first recipient of Bitcoin literally stated this
• 6:04
  days after Bitcoin was created. And here is the quote in
• 6:09
  question and he goes as an amusing thought experiment.
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  Imagine that Bitcoin is successful and becomes a
• 6:14
  dominant payment system in use throughout the world.
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  Then the total value of the currency should be equal to the
• 6:19
  total value of all the wealth in the world.
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  Current estimates of total worldwide household wealth that
• 6:24
  I have found range from 100 trillion to 300 trillion.
• 6:27
  With 20 million coins, that gives each coin a value of about
• 6:32
  $10 million. Now of course he using the 20
• 6:36
  million coin metric to get to this number.
• 6:39
  You know round numbers a little easier to deal with in our heads
• 6:42
  but the interesting thing of course this was 2916 years ago.
• 6:47
  The global wealth has expanded to about 3 times if not more
• 6:52
  than this when how Finney predicted literally days after
• 6:57
  Bitcoin was created a $10 million per Bitcoin.
• 7:00
  Well, we have the updated numbers for you guys here and
• 7:03
  this is the main chart I think a lot of us Bitcoiners are looking
• 7:06
  at and should be looking at. So shouts out the creases AKA
• 7:10
  Jesse Myers because he keeps updating this chart.
• 7:12
  For a while it was 900 trillion. Now his new metrics, his new
• 7:16
  mass, the new graph is saying 1000 trillion, which again guys,
• 7:20
  I think that's one quadrillion. You guys make me make fun of me
• 7:24
  in the chat about this, but you can check it out.
• 7:26
  Bitcoin is only .2% of global wealth.
• 7:28
  Here you can see top left Bitcoin at $2 trillion market
• 7:31
  cap, which we're we're holding up on that.
• 7:34
  And then the other markets, of course, a lot of bitcoiners
• 7:37
  really always reference the gold market cap, which is roughly 22
• 7:40
  to 23 trillion right now. Obviously that is the the the
• 7:45
  next metric on the table where Bitcoin will overtake now is
• 7:49
  that in two years. Is that in the by the next
• 7:51
  cycle? We really don't know, but it's
• 7:53
  probably coming sooner than we can even imagine considering
• 7:57
  that Bitcoin is going mainstream, that people are
• 7:59
  looking at Bitcoin as a viable alternative here.
• 8:03
  And then of course we have art cars and collectible 27 trillion
• 8:06
  equities, 135 trillion, which of course now Bitcoin is in there
• 8:10
  with micro strategy playbook. So where where slowly eating
• 8:13
  away at that. But the real big Kahoon is here,
• 8:16
  which I think we can update these numbers from how Finney is
• 8:20
  the real estate market and the bond markets.
• 8:22
  Of course the money market, 129 trillion Bitcoin will eat that
• 8:26
  as well. It'll get to those numbers.
• 8:28
  But the mass liquidity I think that we're seeing in the last
• 8:31
  couple of weeks that will be funneled from these markets into
• 8:35
  Bitcoin is of course real estate and bonds.
• 8:38
  There's a lot of talk from bitcoiners saying that, you
• 8:40
  know, the monetary premium of houses is probably going to go
• 8:43
  down once all of these boomers, or rather, you know, I'm not
• 8:46
  going to shit on all the boomers out there.
• 8:48
  But once all the people holding real estate realize that Bitcoin
• 8:52
  is a better investment, there's no upkeep cost, you know,
• 8:55
  there's there's no mortgage to be paid.
• 8:57
  You literally just buy Bitcoin. You hold it, you store it, and
• 9:01
  you get that purchasing power increase.
• 9:03
  So the real estate market, according to that Jesse Myers
• 9:06
  updated is 370 trillion. And then of course, the bond
• 9:10
  market. Now I'm sure there will always
• 9:12
  be some people that hold bonds. Of course, there are people that
• 9:16
  are legally obliged to hold these bonds.
• 9:19
  But for everyone else, the $318 trillion bond market, I think
• 9:25
  it's safe to say that Bitcoin will eat some of that as well.
• 9:27
  And so if you add those numbers up, Hal Finney said that the
• 9:31
  numbers he saw was 100 trillion to 300 trillion of global
• 9:34
  wealth. Well, from the updated numbers,
• 9:37
  that's about what, $678 trillion just in real estate and bonds
• 9:43
  alone? If Bitcoin eats even a sizable
• 9:47
  chunk of that wealth and people start to drop government debt
• 9:50
  AKA bonds or even drop their real estate investment
• 9:53
  properties and they just store it into Bitcoin, this $2
• 9:57
  trillion market cap of Bitcoin is going up.
• 9:59
  So I know a lot of people keep asking us and keep telling us in
• 10:03
  the chat like you guys are you guys are going hard on these
• 10:07
  click bait predictions, $10 million Bitcoin isn't coming,
• 10:10
  $1,000,000 Bitcoin isn't coming. Can we just get to like 200 K
• 10:14
  first bro? Well, I feel that sentiment as
• 10:17
  well. But I think a lot of what we do
• 10:21
  as Bitcoiners is we do project down into the future and we look
• 10:25
  at where the puck is going. And as you can see, there is a
• 10:30
  ton of money either being parked or sloshing around and it's all
• 10:34
  going to find a home soon enough.
• 10:37
  As the narrative is shifting, as we've seen literally in the last
• 10:40
  weeks with this tide shift, the sea change going on, people are
• 10:44
  looking at Bitcoin as that viable store value.
• 10:48
  Of course, we think of it a little little more.
• 10:49
  It's perfect money, pristine collateral, which we will be
• 10:52
  talking today about in the news that capital will find its way
• 10:56
  into Bitcoin as more and more institutions, banks, nation
• 11:01
  States and of course, really influential people start to
• 11:05
  embrace Bitcoin. I think these watershed moments,
• 11:08
  it will happen very suddenly. We are seeing the gradually then
• 11:12
  suddenly meme play out and me and my and me and Mitchell were
• 11:15
  talking about this before the show like it's been gradually
• 11:19
  then suddenly with these news stories and it really does feel
• 11:23
  like we are on that suddenly point right now.
• 11:26
  Now the price will follow soon enough, of course.
• 11:30
  We just recommend buy Bitcoin constantly, weekly, monthly,
• 11:34
  bimonthly, however you do it, whatever your finances allow.
• 11:38
  You just need to set up some form of a dollar cost average
• 11:42
  strategy. Take that Bitcoin into custody.
• 11:44
  Of course, don't leave your Bitcoin on exchanges and enjoy
• 11:48
  the ride. It's literally that simple.
• 11:49
  It's almost too simple for people to fully wrap their head
• 11:52
  around because we're so used to these intense crazy financial
• 11:56
  engineering strategies to just maintain inflation costs here.
• 12:02
  It is getting crazy, and I know we're throwing out big numbers
• 12:06
  on the one hand, of course, to get people to watch the video.
• 12:09
  But when you really look at the mass, as Arthur Hayes was saying
• 12:12
  at the Bitcoin conference, the math is easy.
• 12:14
  This is easy math. It's all mathematical.
• 12:17
  At a certain point, it will find its way into Bitcoin.
• 12:20
  And you are early as we've been standing, you know, Wall Street
• 12:23
  was late to Bitcoin. Yes, now they're getting into it
• 12:26
  15-16 years down the line. But the majority of Bitcoin is
• 12:30
  held by individuals. So for once you know, the
• 12:34
  bottom, the people can win with this new monetary, you know,
• 12:40
  standard, with this new monetary regime that will be built on
• 12:43
  Bitcoin. It's happening right now.
• 12:46
  It's exciting, man. It's exciting times to be a
• 12:48
  bitcoiner. Anyways, I've rambled enough.
• 12:50
  I went over all the source material.
• 12:52
  Mitchell, you want to unpack some of this and, and thanks for
• 12:55
  coming on, man. You're one of my favorite
• 12:57
  zoomers out there. Thank you, Opti, appreciate you
• 12:59
  having me on the show and all the kind words.
• 13:02
  Fantastic intro. There's so much we can dive
• 13:04
  into. I think one thing I'll focus on
• 13:07
  1st is the Bitcoin treasury companies, they get a ton of
• 13:11
  hate into Bitcoin community. But when you talk about this 900
• 13:16
  trillion, this, you know, 1 quadrillion worth of capital
• 13:19
  worth of liquidity getting into the Bitcoin market, how do
• 13:22
  people think that's actually going to happen?
• 13:24
  Because it's physically and technically impossible for 8:00
• 13:28
  people to take self custody Bitcoin on chain and move it
• 13:32
  once a year. And so you need vehicles like
• 13:36
  strategy, like 21, like strategy, convertible bonds,
• 13:39
  like Bitcoin ETFs to allow that capital, that liquidity to
• 13:44
  actually get into Bitcoin. And so we've heard Bitcoiners
• 13:47
  talk over and over for years about Bitcoin capturing that
• 13:50
  pie, capturing its slice of that one quadrillion.
• 13:54
  And so you can't complain when the the actual means by which
• 13:58
  that happens is, is entering the market.
• 14:00
  And and like you said about Bitcoin 2025, Bitcoin treasury
• 14:03
  companies were the talk of the town.
• 14:05
  That was the by far and away the highest signal thing for me
• 14:08
  personally. And there's a reason for that.
• 14:11
  They're here, these institutions, you can't stop
• 14:13
  them. You know, Bitcoin is
• 14:14
  permissionless. You can't stop Wall Street from
• 14:16
  embracing it and using it as a store value.
• 14:18
  And so I think we're early from a price standpoint, but I don't
• 14:22
  think we're early from a time standpoint.
• 14:25
  I think we are hitting that suddenly phase just simply by
• 14:28
  the velocity of announcements, the velocity of new, new players
• 14:32
  in the market. At the start of the year, there
• 14:34
  was about 75 public companies that held Bitcoin on the balance
• 14:37
  sheet. Now it's about 125.
• 14:39
  So you know, that's over a 50% increase in just six months.
• 14:42
  So I think we're going to continue to see that rate
• 14:44
  accelerate and you know, the the troubles in the bond market
• 14:48
  globally, all, all the chaos geopolitically, all that stuff
• 14:51
  is just going to continue to compound and accelerate the rate
• 14:54
  at which everyone in the world, everyone with capital they want
• 14:57
  to save starts to park that into Bitcoin.
• 15:00
  Yeah, it it really does feel like Bitcoin was designed for
• 15:04
  this exact moment. And anyone that doesn't see that
• 15:07
  you're like, what are you looking at it?
• 15:09
  It's so obvious to us. But again, it really just goes
• 15:12
  to there is a learning curve to Bitcoin, or rather an unlearning
• 15:16
  curve here of Bitcoin. You really have to forget
• 15:18
  everything you've learned before in traditional finance to fully
• 15:21
  understand what what Bitcoin's potential will be.
• 15:24
  And you know, I, I don't mean to do the saying of you can't teach
• 15:27
  old dogs new tricks, but it seems like a lot of people are
• 15:31
  stuck in that system. And actually, Mitchell, you
• 15:33
  brought something up that we were talking about before the
• 15:35
  show. And it's the idea of, you know,
• 15:39
  I know there's been a lot of pushback on the Bitcoin treasury
• 15:42
  strategy. A lot of Bitcoiners are saying,
• 15:45
  man, the institutional institutions are here.
• 15:48
  We're losing our cry cypherpunk ethos.
• 15:51
  We even had a bunch of articles. I saw a new one this morning
• 15:54
  from Wired. We have Wall Street Journal
• 15:56
  talking about, you know, Bitcoin, crypto or crypto Bros
• 15:59
  and race MAGA. Are they losing their ethos?
• 16:03
  And we were kind of trolling about it earlier before we
• 16:05
  started the show. It's like, guys, did you think
• 16:07
  that this was going to happen any other different way?
• 16:10
  Like the way that Bitcoin gets to these astronomical numbers,
• 16:14
  for better or worse, is by piling into a rather, you know,
• 16:18
  siphoning capital from these enormous capital markets.
• 16:24
  I think this was all planned from the beginning.
• 16:26
  And as how Finney even kind of predicted the very beginning of
• 16:29
  Bitcoin, Bitcoin will become part of a huge part of the
• 16:34
  global wealth. Right now we're seeing it play
• 16:36
  out in real time and a lot of people are sitting back and like
• 16:39
  it. It kind of reminds me of the
• 16:41
  matrix being like, not like this, bro.
• 16:42
  It wasn't supposed to happen like this.
• 16:44
  And and we were joking like, how do you think this is going to
• 16:47
  happen? You think it's going to be 8
• 16:48
  billion, You know, everyday people putting in $1000 that's
• 16:52
  going to take Bitcoin to these crazy numbers.
• 16:54
  It's like, no, you need to find a way for these huge capital
• 16:57
  markets, the normal capital markets to get into Bitcoin.
• 17:00
  And this is what we're seeing happen right now, again, for
• 17:03
  better or worse. And I think it's upon us as
• 17:05
  bitcoiners, everyday Bitcoiners that talk to people that create
• 17:08
  content that basically be like, look, you got you.
• 17:11
  If you want the Bitcoin ethos to maintain and continue, it's
• 17:14
  about taking Bitcoin into custody.
• 17:16
  This is the revolution here. Yes, we will get wealthier.
• 17:19
  Yes, we're seeing, you know, Donald Trump and I might, I
• 17:21
  might bring this in later, you know, talking about eliminating
• 17:24
  the debt ceiling, like the big print is on the horizon right
• 17:27
  now. This was how it was going to
• 17:30
  play out ever since the beginning.
• 17:32
  I think, you know, and I and I don't want to put words in
• 17:35
  Satoshi's mouth, but I think this is what we knew was going
• 17:38
  to happen. Bitcoin was eventually going to
• 17:41
  be that Trojan horse that overtakes all of the capital
• 17:44
  markets, and it may not be exactly how we kind of dreamed
• 17:47
  it up to be, but this is how we win this game.
• 17:50
  This. I don't think there was any
• 17:52
  other way of doing this. No, there wasn't.
• 17:54
  The the plebs dollar cost averaging $100 a week was not
• 17:58
  going to get Bitcoin to $1,000,000.
• 17:59
  You know, African countries using Bitcoin as a medium of
• 18:02
  exchange to send €5 or $5 worth of product productivity a day
• 18:08
  wasn't going to get Bitcoin to these astronomical numbers.
• 18:11
  And so it that doesn't mean Bitcoin's not going to change
• 18:13
  the world, right? Think about who is going to
• 18:15
  benefit the most from all of these institutions piling into
• 18:19
  Bitcoin. Well, it's going to be the
• 18:20
  bitcoiners that have been dollar cost averaging, stacking and
• 18:23
  taking their Bitcoin into cold storage over the last four, 812
• 18:27
  years. There's going to be a massive
• 18:29
  transformation of capital. And as Bitcoiners, as we get
• 18:32
  wealthier over the next 4-5, six years, we have to decide how we
• 18:37
  want to impact the world, how we want to allocate our capital.
• 18:40
  Now, I think a great example of this is Steak 'n Shake.
• 18:42
  They were at the Bitcoin conference.
• 18:44
  They're, they're going all in on Bitcoin.
• 18:45
  They're going all in on beef tallow, ditching seed oils.
• 18:49
  This is the kind of world that Bitcoiners create, can create.
• 18:52
  When you have wealth, you can choose how to allocate that and
• 18:55
  you can reflect your values on to the world.
• 18:58
  So I think we're going to see a lot more companies take the
• 19:00
  Steak 'n Shake approach and say, hey, Bitcoiners have all this
• 19:03
  wealth. We want to appeal to them and
• 19:05
  their values. So we're going to restructure
• 19:08
  our company and our products to to do that, yeah. 100% and and I
• 19:12
  mean further to your point, again, I know a lot of
• 19:15
  bitcoiners don't like politicians, but we're seeing
• 19:17
  politicians do this exact playbook.
• 19:19
  We just got the new news this week of the South Korean
• 19:22
  president basically being elected because he's pro
• 19:25
  Bitcoin. You know, again and and Nico got
• 19:28
  mad at me yesterday because I said we will Co opt the system
• 19:31
  and he's like, and by legal, you know, governmental standard, by
• 19:35
  legal social contracts, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
• 19:37
  exactly by incentives. Bitcoin is proving that this
• 19:41
  movement is huge. And and I and I actually saw a
• 19:43
  good tweet by Eric Case on this morning or I think it was
• 19:46
  yesterday and he basically said, sorry Bitcoin Bros, like Bitcoin
• 19:51
  is political, whether you like it or not, money is political.
• 19:54
  And here we are. We're starting to prove in real
• 19:57
  time that the incentives of Bitcoin, whether it's steak and
• 20:01
  shake, whether it's politicians, whether it's the Larry Finks of
• 20:03
  the world, they have to embrace Bitcoin.
• 20:06
  They have to get off 0. They have to play the game or
• 20:09
  else they get left behind. And I, I think the biggest news
• 20:11
  story of this that we will cover later today in the show is
• 20:14
  what's happening with JP Morgan. Literally the biggest bank in
• 20:17
  the world is now bending the need of Bitcoin and they're
• 20:21
  saying some very interesting things around Bitcoin that I, I,
• 20:24
  I wasn't expecting this cycle, or rather this year.
• 20:27
  I I thought this was. Going to be down the line, but
• 20:30
  it's all pointing to the same thing.
• 20:32
  Bitcoin is legitimized in the eyes of everyone around the
• 20:36
  world and for better or worse, I think this is a great
• 20:38
  opportunity for us to all capitalize on this continue to
• 20:41
  stack Bitcoin, continue to save in Bitcoin, continue to spread
• 20:44
  Bitcoin and of course take that Bitcoin into custody like this
• 20:48
  is how the game is won. And I know Niko goes kind of
• 20:51
  hard on this is what winning feels like.
• 20:53
  And I, I, you guys can see me kind of cringe on the show
• 20:56
  sometimes. But I, I think it's pretty safe
• 20:59
  to say like we are winning pretty hard right now.
• 21:03
  And the only thing that's going to prove this next is of course,
• 21:06
  a, a huge Bitcoin RIP. And I think this is what we're
• 21:10
  all waiting for. And, and Mitchell, you actually
• 21:11
  had some wise words on this because I was kind of trolling
• 21:14
  before the show. It's like all this good news.
• 21:16
  When's the price ripping? And what did you say, Mitch?
• 21:20
  Soon, you know, with it within the next 6 to 12 months, I, I
• 21:24
  think we're on the precipice of of a massive move.
• 21:26
  You did show the M2 global M2 liquidity chart earlier and it's
• 21:31
  so cliche and people love to mock it, but fundamentally it
• 21:35
  makes a whole lot of sense. Yeah, this one.
• 21:37
  Thank you for pulling it up. And shout out to Joe Consorti,
• 21:39
  His his handles down there on the bottom.
• 21:40
  He's been, he's been promoting this, this signal for a long
• 21:43
  time. It it's really quite simple.
• 21:45
  Bitcoin, the price of Bitcoin is a function of Fiat liquidity and
• 21:50
  adoption. And when there's more units of
• 21:52
  currency in the system, investors and capital
• 21:56
  allocators, they're not going to hold those dollars.
• 21:58
  They're going to purchase hard assets.
• 21:59
  And Bitcoin is the most liquid sponge for all of this
• 22:03
  liquidity. Why?
• 22:04
  It's traded globally, 24/7, 365. It's perfectly liquid, fungible,
• 22:10
  portable, and has a finite supply.
• 22:12
  And it's a neutral commodity. No one institution or government
• 22:16
  is in control of it. So it's natural that when
• 22:18
  there's excess Fiat liquidity in the system, it's going to find
• 22:22
  find its way into Bitcoin. And I think, you know, the the
• 22:25
  only way I believe this chart can kind of break, so to speak,
• 22:29
  is to the upside. So if you take liquidity and you
• 22:32
  have Bitcoin, the more bridges you make connecting the two of
• 22:36
  these. So what's, what's a bridge that
• 22:38
  can connect liquidity from Fiat to Bitcoin?
• 22:40
  It's a Bitcoin ETF, it's a MicroStrategy convertible bond.
• 22:44
  It's something like a Bitcoin backed mortgage or something to
• 22:49
  draw capital from the real estate market.
• 22:50
  The more of these bridges we get, that's more Bitcoin
• 22:53
  adoption and that allows that liquidity in the Fiat system to
• 22:56
  get to the Bitcoin system even faster.
• 22:58
  So I think we're going to, we're going to really start to see the
• 23:00
  Bitcoin price RIP over the next I, I think the next two
• 23:04
  quarters, I think by the end of 2025, we're going to be sitting
• 23:07
  a lot higher. And again, you know my my
• 23:09
  perspective could change is the data changes, but I do think
• 23:12
  liquidity is the number one indicator for Bitcoin price
• 23:14
  action. Yeah, actually that's one of my
• 23:17
  new favorite metrics and and it does seem to have just popped up
• 23:20
  recently. I know we, we kind of we talk
• 23:23
  about Bitcoin in, in regards to the four you're having cycle
• 23:26
  lining up to the presidential elections in the US.
• 23:29
  And I'm sure that the conversation around global
• 23:32
  liquidity was kind of like a, a thing around Bitcoin Twitter.
• 23:35
  But in the last couple of weeks it popping up and it's becoming
• 23:38
  more of a mainstay. It really just makes much more
• 23:42
  sense than anything else. Essentially, you know, the
• 23:44
  Bitcoin price goes up when there's more liquidity, global
• 23:48
  liquidity in the system. And as we've seen, the money
• 23:51
  printers are being turned on. There is stealth QE going on as
• 23:54
  we speak and I don't know is it if it's just because we're
• 23:57
  Bitcoiners and this is what we follow.
• 23:59
  You know, we're all financial nerds, economic nerds here and
• 24:02
  this is like This Is Us. This is our Super Bowl is when
• 24:04
  we see this kind of news. But it's all pointing towards
• 24:09
  the big print is coming. As Larry Leopard said, they are
• 24:11
  going to print an obscene amounts of money to continue to
• 24:14
  maintain the Fiat system and that has to find a home.
• 24:17
  And as we're seeing as inflation goes up, as bond interest rates
• 24:21
  goes up, people don't want the traditional core values.
• 24:26
  They do not want the traditional risk off investments or, you
• 24:30
  know, speculative vehicles. They're starting to look at
• 24:32
  Bitcoin. And it's only a matter of time
• 24:34
  until these really deep pockets just go smashed by.
• 24:39
  So you said, you know, global liquidity will drive Bitcoin.
• 24:42
  There's only a few things that will drive it.
• 24:45
  I'm still kind of, you know, 45 IQ Bitcoin will drive off
• 24:48
  narrative base, you know, hype and FOMO.
• 24:51
  And once we finally see that FOMO play in and and that really
• 24:55
  accounts for a lot of retail investors coming in like this
• 24:58
  could totally blow past global M2.
• 25:01
  And you know, I'm here for it. Like I'm totally here for it.
• 25:05
  I, I absolutely think it could. And I, my kind of baseline
• 25:09
  thesis is that we don't get any more bear markets, we don't get
• 25:12
  any more 75% draw downs. But if this retail FOMO kind of
• 25:17
  cycle starts to come in and we go to $1,000,000 in the next 6
• 25:21
  months, yeah, we're probably going to drop back down a, a
• 25:23
  good chunk, right? And so I, I could see that
• 25:26
  retail FOMO cycle playing out of, you know, liquidity and
• 25:30
  adoption drives Bitcoin to 100, 52 hundred 250 over the next few
• 25:34
  months. Then you could start to see, see
• 25:36
  the retail folks piling in. But I built caveat that by
• 25:40
  saying retail's kind of broke right now.
• 25:42
  Like people are being, they're being hurt really hard by.
• 25:45
  Inflation. Yeah.
• 25:46
  I don't mean to laugh, but. It's so true.
• 25:47
  It's it's true, right? Retail was able to bid the
• 25:50
  Bitcoin price in 2017 because Bitcoin had a really low market
• 25:53
  cap. So you didn't have to have a lot
• 25:55
  of capital to move the price, relatively speaking.
• 25:57
  And then in 2021 they just got a fresh stimulus check.
• 26:01
  There was all this new units of currency in the system and as it
• 26:05
  currently stands, retails up to their neck and credit card debt.
• 26:08
  They have 4 roommates and they can barely make rent.
• 26:10
  Like I'm not sure how much they could actually move the needle,
• 26:13
  but it could certainly happen. Yeah, 100%.
• 26:17
  And I think that is the other thing that we are seeing.
• 26:22
  Of course we've been covering the, the bond markets and of
• 26:25
  course the interest rates and we've seen this whole, you know,
• 26:28
  you, you could argue fake fight between Trump and Jay Powell
• 26:31
  right now. But the point remains the same.
• 26:34
  Like the free money era is over and we are entering into this
• 26:38
  hard money asset, as I was saying, or hard money era as I
• 26:41
  was talking about yesterday. And if you aren't parking your
• 26:45
  wealth in hard money, you're going to be left behind.
• 26:48
  But there's still a lot of people right now that are
• 26:51
  hurting, that are struggling, can't pay their, you know, rent,
• 26:54
  their living paycheck to paycheck.
• 26:56
  Groceries are getting more expensive.
• 26:58
  We have shrink flation as well as inflation.
• 27:01
  So what you buy, you know, your dollar doesn't go as far as it
• 27:04
  used to. Like, people are struggling.
• 27:06
  And I think a lot of Bitcoiners are, you know, most of us are
• 27:09
  probably. And in the opposite boat, we're
• 27:11
  like, look, man, like, yeah, inflation's getting out of
• 27:14
  control. They're gonna destroy the
• 27:15
  purchasing power of the middle class.
• 27:17
  But we got Bitcoin and we're kind of chilling and we forget
• 27:20
  what it's like to be on the other side of the aisle because
• 27:23
  we're on the safety boat. And that is the truth.
• 27:26
  People are hurting right now and it's becoming clearer and
• 27:28
  clearer. Right.
• 27:30
  They're they're living in an entirely different world, right?
• 27:32
  If you've been saving in Bitcoin, you don't have
• 27:34
  inflation, you have purchasing power go up.
• 27:37
  Your life gets cheaper over time.
• 27:39
  And so it can be difficult to kind of get your mind back into
• 27:43
  the normie state where it's like, man, my groceries and my
• 27:45
  rent and my car payments all getting more expensive when
• 27:48
  they're saving in the currency that loses purchasing power.
• 27:52
  Yep, as the saying goes, you know, you got to switch your
• 27:56
  monetary standard and get on the Bitcoin standard.
• 27:59
  This is the way. All right, guys, before I move
• 28:02
  on, I want to remind you to a smash the like button, hit the
• 28:05
  subscribe and of course comment on the show.
• 28:08
  Are we you know, are we lost in the in the sauce here?
• 28:11
  Are we, are we all up in the hopium or is it possible for
• 28:14
  Bitcoin to get to these 10 million plus price predictions?
• 28:20
  I think it's easy. I think it's a super easy easy.
• 28:22
  It's easy math guys. All right, before we move on
• 28:25
  though, I have a message from our boys over at Bitcoin.
• 28:27
  Well, if you want to stack Bitcoin the best way, the safest
• 28:33
  way, you need to sign up to Bitcoin.
• 28:34
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• 28:38
  The reason we love them is because it is self custody by
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  default, which means you need a Bitcoin wallet to buy Bitcoin
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  from them. They are, I believe, the only
• 28:49
  non custodial exchange on the northern hemisphere, which
• 28:52
  literally means they never hold your Bitcoin.
• 28:55
  You give them your Fiat, they send you the Bitcoin, it goes
• 28:58
  straight into cold storage. You hold the Bitcoin that you
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  getting rug pulled. And of course, when you sign up
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  with simply Bitcoin or yeah, our, our promo code, you get 3
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  1,000,000 sets, which I think it's about, you know, 1000 plus
• 29:18
  dollars right now. So hey, there's a chance to win.
• 29:21
  And I've, I've been trolling Adam a little bit.
• 29:23
  I'm like, has anyone won the million stats yet?
• 29:25
  It's like, no, well, the odds are are decreasing here.
• 29:28
  Someone has to win that million stats soon enough.
• 29:31
  Anyways, let's get into the numbers guys.
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  not allowing you to huddle your Bitcoin for the long haul.
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  I mean, here is the plate that they crushed, they put in water,
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• 31:02
  today. All right, guys and gals, I'm
• 31:09
  over here on Clark Moody's dashboard and of course we're
• 31:12
  going to go over some numbers. So the current Bitcoin price is
• 31:14
  $103,440. Is everyone in the chat saying
• 31:19
  it looks like the market makers are trying to liquidate James
• 31:22
  Lynn right now? I don't know if you guys have
• 31:23
  been watching that saga, but it's getting crazy over there.
• 31:27
  It it's, it's pretty interesting.
• 31:29
  He's just going, you know, $100 million longs and it looks like
• 31:34
  they are looking. For.
• 31:36
  The margin call, it's nuts. So we'll see what happens.
• 31:39
  Obviously, bitcoin's not over. It's only a decline of, you
• 31:43
  know, .7 or yeah -7.6% from all time high.
• 31:48
  The stats per dollar is still under 1000 stats, 967 stats per
• 31:52
  dollar. The block height 899,925.
• 31:56
  We have still held the $2 trillion market cap.
• 32:00
  We're currently at 2.06 trillion.
• 32:03
  We're still inching towards solidifying that 10% of the gold
• 32:06
  market cap. Currently it's at 8.62% and the
• 32:09
  total percentage of Bitcoin that will ever be issued is currently
• 32:11
  at 94.64% with roughly 19.87 million coins in in circulation
• 32:17
  and the realized monetary inflation just the hardest money
• 32:21
  ever is at .84%. Nothing can come close to
• 32:25
  Bitcoin. OK, so I saw this interesting
• 32:28
  clip here from Tom Lee and and personally I'm not the biggest
• 32:32
  fan of Tom Lee, but I think he does lay out a good kind of
• 32:36
  perspective in this click and of course he's on the corporate
• 32:39
  press shouts out to Joe Kernan over at squawk box.
• 32:42
  He's the go he's probably the the the best Bitcoin podcaster
• 32:46
  in the game. He's constantly pushing back and
• 32:49
  even he was kind of shook at what Tom Lee is saying.
• 32:53
  And as the framing goes, of course, it's this whole fabled
• 32:57
  supply shock. Now, there is some pushback on
• 32:59
  this idea of supply shock, so I will kind of go into it a little
• 33:03
  bit, but let's just watch the clip and then we'll break this
• 33:05
  down. 95% of all bitcoins have been mined, but 95% of the world
• 33:11
  doesn't own Bitcoin. So I just think that there's
• 33:14
  still a huge demand versus supply imbalance, meaning
• 33:18
  there's a lot more potential buyers of Bitcoin over the next
• 33:21
  10 years. And so I think there's a lot of
• 33:23
  upside into your end. In into your like 150 target.
• 33:27
  Yeah, 150, maybe 200, even 250 this year.
• 33:30
  What 150 to to 200 to even 250 and what what's your, you don't
• 33:36
  have a terminal price on that, do you?
• 33:39
  Well, it's. I think at a minimum it should
• 33:42
  have the same network value as gold.
• 33:44
  And if you look at above ground gold, it's probably 20-3
• 33:47
  trillion. So that would be, you know, 1.2
• 33:50
  million for Bitcoin. But I think Bitcoin is more
• 33:52
  valuable than gold. So you know, gold, I mean
• 33:55
  Bitcoin could be 2,000,000, you know, 3,000,000 long term, I
• 33:57
  mean even higher. Incredible.
• 34:00
  OK, actually, before I pull this chart up and explain it, I do
• 34:05
  want to comment on Joe Kernan. When Tom Lee's like, you know,
• 34:09
  Joe's Joe's is such like, yeah, you know, 150 seems reasonable.
• 34:13
  And Tom Lee's like, you know what?
• 34:14
  I think 2 hundred 250K is probably where we're going.
• 34:17
  He's like, wait, what? Like what are you talking about?
• 34:19
  And I mean, Mitchell, actually I'll post this question to you
• 34:22
  because this was kind of the sentiment I was getting at the
• 34:25
  Bitcoin conference talking to everyone.
• 34:27
  It seems like a lot of people are eyeing that 150 price
• 34:31
  prediction that one 150K per Bitcoin price as like a given
• 34:36
  here or rather not even just a given, but the top of this
• 34:39
  cycle. And I know, I don't know if you
• 34:41
  guys saw safety and he did a good interview on the Roxim TV
• 34:46
  or actually it was with Natalie Bernal, but it was at the Roxim
• 34:48
  TV booth and he was saying, look, I know 150K doesn't seem
• 34:54
  as great as we would like for a blow off top parabolic run of
• 34:58
  Bitcoin and it can potentially go higher.
• 35:00
  But if you really count the the price gains from the bottom of
• 35:04
  this cycle, 15K to 150K, you know, that's a 10X move here.
• 35:09
  And that would kind of break this diminishing return meme
• 35:12
  that we've been seeing for a while.
• 35:14
  But you know, Tom Lee's out here like 250K.
• 35:17
  What would that be? Is that like a 20X?
• 35:20
  I don't know. Math is hard from the 15K
• 35:22
  bottom. So I just want to ask you,
• 35:25
  Mitchell, did you also get that sentiment from Bitcoin
• 35:29
  conference that a lot of people are eyeing that one 50K price as
• 35:33
  kind of like the, the general, you know, prediction of where
• 35:38
  we're going? That seems like the safe
• 35:39
  prediction right now. Yeah, I would say so.
• 35:42
  That's definitely the conservative estimate.
• 35:44
  I think near term, you know, 6 to 12 months the the range is
• 35:49
  probably 150 to 250 realistically, unless we get
• 35:52
  some kind of Black Swan mega gigaprint like 2020.
• 35:56
  But people are saying, you know, Bitcoin at just 150,000.
• 36:00
  But like you said, not even 2 1/2 years ago we were at 15K.
• 36:04
  And if you've been dollar cost averaging and accumulating
• 36:07
  Bitcoin every single day, you're going to do just fine.
• 36:11
  And you also have to put yourself in the mind of the
• 36:14
  institutional Fiat world because that's who's going to drive the
• 36:17
  price higher. Like we've been talking about.
• 36:19
  And for them, us going from 90K at the start of the year to 150,
• 36:24
  they don't make that kind of returns in a single year ever.
• 36:26
  That is like crack for them. And so I could see us getting
• 36:29
  some kind of resistance around, you know, the 150 mark, see some
• 36:34
  re accumulation from long term holders, maybe trade sideways
• 36:37
  for a couple months before moving higher.
• 36:39
  I honestly my base case is like Stairway to Heaven, as cosmonaut
• 36:43
  on Twitter calls it. Bitcoin goes up 50%.
• 36:46
  Wall Street takes some profits, we consolidate.
• 36:49
  Bitcoin goes up another 50 to 100%, endlessly and forever
• 36:53
  until we're at millions of dollars.
• 36:55
  Let's go. So hey, Mitchell, you're, it
• 36:58
  sounds like you're saying you, you don't believe in the four
• 37:00
  year cycle anymore. No, I, I don't.
• 37:03
  I think it's. Actually, you've been doing
• 37:04
  videos about this. Maybe let's break this down a
• 37:06
  little bit. Right.
• 37:07
  So I like we mentioned earlier, I think Bitcoin is very much
• 37:10
  liquidity driven and even on on an elementary level, the
• 37:14
  halvings and their impact are diminishing, right.
• 37:17
  So we went from 900 Bitcoin a day to 450 and 2028 will go from
• 37:21
  4:50 to 2:25. And so that marginal difference
• 37:24
  in the the supply issuance is going to have less of an effect.
• 37:27
  I think the only effect really will be kind of like a
• 37:31
  psychological effect. People saying, you know, look
• 37:34
  after 2012, 1620 Bitcoin increased a lot because of this
• 37:38
  having, but I do think it is it is more liquidity driven.
• 37:41
  And also given the the institutional players starting
• 37:45
  to to girth into the market. I mean, you think Larry Fink's
• 37:49
  going to see a 30% Bitcoin dip and not back the truck up,
• 37:53
  right? Like these are capital
• 37:54
  allocators with a lot at stake. You know, BlackRock wants to
• 37:57
  rake in Fiat denominated fees on a high Bitcoin price.
• 38:00
  There's a lot of incentives and a lot of players with with big
• 38:04
  wallets who won't want the Bitcoin price to dip 75% and at
• 38:08
  some point it becomes too big to fail, right?
• 38:10
  Think about it this way. If you know, if micro strategy,
• 38:13
  they hold a lot of Bitcoin, if they're in the S&P 500, the
• 38:15
  NASDAQ 100 and some other Bitcoin treasury companies are
• 38:18
  in there. A drop in Bitcoin is going to
• 38:20
  mean their stock price drops, which means the entire market
• 38:23
  drops, which means, you know, all these boomer retirement
• 38:25
  portfolios drop it. It could become that point where
• 38:28
  like, hey, the Bitcoin price, we can't let this drop too much or
• 38:31
  economic activity, but he's going to really grind to a halt.
• 38:34
  Wow, I would love to see some, you know, price manipulation
• 38:39
  from the institutions on the downside and not necessarily the
• 38:42
  upside. I am all for this though.
• 38:44
  I saw this metric and I didn't get enough time.
• 38:46
  I was literally right before I was coming on the show.
• 38:48
  So I I wasn't really able to fully, you know, dive into it,
• 38:52
  but it does look like a lot of customers with the I bit ITF are
• 38:56
  selling or, you know, basically, I wouldn't say redeeming, but
• 39:01
  moving some liquidity around. So it did look like BlackRock
• 39:04
  was selling, but it's the customers that are obviously
• 39:08
  probably locking in a little bit of games here.
• 39:10
  And I think this might be kind of a a good sentiment or
• 39:15
  temperature reading of how these institutional or rather more
• 39:18
  retail institutional investors are looking at Bitcoin.
• 39:21
  So, you know, there's still a lot of open, open books here and
• 39:24
  open ideas of how this stuff's going to work out.
• 39:26
  But I am also starting to feel that the four year cycle, I
• 39:30
  really don't, I don't have much data behind it.
• 39:32
  It's just more of like a intuitive take on this.
• 39:35
  But with all this news, the four year cycle, I, I just, you know,
• 39:39
  I, I could be wrong. I, I was going to say, you know,
• 39:41
  safe Dean is saying we might be still 70% corrections.
• 39:46
  I don't know, man. It feels like the.
• 39:47
  Four year cycle is dead. Yeah, my my vibes indicator is
• 39:51
  telling me the same thing. And to your point, the the
• 39:56
  investors holding the BlackRock ETF, they're not, they're not
• 40:00
  stone cold diamond hands. They are of the trad fi mind.
• 40:04
  They like to rebalance. So it when their 5% Bitcoin
• 40:07
  position balloons to 10 or 15%, they're going to quote UN quote
• 40:11
  take some Fiat profits. Now, anybody who's been a
• 40:14
  Bitcoin long enough knows that Bitcoin in self custody, cold
• 40:17
  storage is taking profits. That's the only thing that you
• 40:21
  can hold reliably for the long term that can't be confiscated
• 40:24
  from you but the newer markets participants.
• 40:26
  They don't understand that, but it it'll work in the inverse,
• 40:28
  right? If they're 5% Bitcoin position,
• 40:31
  there's a draw down, it becomes 3%.
• 40:32
  You know, they'll, they'll pack their bags and and allocate some
• 40:35
  more capital to it. So I think, you know, Bitcoin
• 40:37
  will remain volatile relative to the S&P 500, treasury bonds,
• 40:41
  gold, it'll be the most volatile asset class in the world.
• 40:44
  But I do think the volatility will dampen from what we've seen
• 40:47
  historically. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 40:50
  All right, guys, before we move on, though, I did pull this
• 40:52
  chart up and I do want to hit on it real quick because if you
• 40:55
  listen to what Tom Lee was saying, and this does kind of
• 40:58
  relate to the beginning of the show where Adam Back is saying,
• 41:01
  you know, Bitcoin is solving a $200 trillion problem here.
• 41:04
  You know, the sentiment around Bitcoin is starting to change.
• 41:07
  We see Ray Dalio and others basically say, hey, look there,
• 41:10
  there's a looming debt crisis. And if the government doesn't
• 41:13
  figure this out, you know, or Elon Musk, if Congress doesn't
• 41:17
  figure out the spending problem, we're going to see a problem.
• 41:21
  And you probably want to own this Bitcoin and how Tom Lee
• 41:24
  said it is in the next coming years, you're going to see a
• 41:28
  potential outsize demand and interest for Bitcoin.
• 41:32
  And of course, there's only a 21,000,000 total supply.
• 41:36
  And a lot of the memes right now is like, oh, the Bitcoin on
• 41:39
  exchanges is going down. There's only two million Bitcoin
• 41:42
  on exchanges or the metric key use, you know, 95% of the
• 41:46
  Bitcoin is basically in individual's hands.
• 41:49
  Well, I'm over here on coin glass and you can see the
• 41:52
  Bitcoin on exchange balance. And to that point, you know, a
• 41:56
  lot of people have been pushing back on this idea of supply
• 41:58
  shock, but you can see that the balance on exchanges since March
• 42:03
  2024 4 has dwindled from what says 2,696,000 Bitcoin down to
• 42:13
  what is this 2.1 million Bitcoin.
• 42:16
  So hey, 50 what, 500,000 Bitcoin have left the exchanges and I
• 42:22
  think it's safe to say that that will most likely not find its
• 42:25
  way back to exchanges. It looks like the institution's
• 42:28
  corporate treasuries of the world.
• 42:31
  They're holding this for, you know, long term here.
• 42:33
  So will we see this number finally drop under that 2
• 42:37
  million Bitcoin on exchanges? I don't know, but it is all
• 42:40
  pointing towards one thing. There is an outsized demand that
• 42:44
  is going to meet a hard cap supply, currency or money here.
• 42:49
  Things are going to get crazy. It's an inevitability.
• 42:51
  And I am starting to feel like this cycle is going to be
• 42:54
  elongated a little bit. Again, just just vibes, vibes
• 42:58
  trading here, you know, intuition based, but it's
• 43:03
  starting to feel like we might be seeing this this year's cycle
• 43:07
  go into 2026. And I know that doesn't
• 43:09
  necessarily break the four year cycle, but it does kind of start
• 43:13
  to change the dynamics. If these bull runs and these
• 43:16
  having cycles, well, they wouldn't be having cycles
• 43:19
  anymore. But if these bull run cycles
• 43:21
  from the dip, you know, the bear markets to the bull market start
• 43:24
  to elongate to five, 6-7 years, maybe it's going to be, you
• 43:28
  know, as Mitchell was saying, the having won't have the effect
• 43:33
  it has anymore because it's less Bitcoin that's coming into the
• 43:36
  market. Most of that Bitcoin is being
• 43:37
  held by people, individuals, corporations.
• 43:40
  So we might be seeing a new dynamic.
• 43:42
  I, I don't want to go all this time is different because I did
• 43:45
  that like a couple months ago and, and it, it was like, OK, I
• 43:48
  guess maybe I was ahead of the gun, but one day I will be
• 43:50
  right. A broken clock is right twice a
• 43:53
  day. It is coming, guys.
• 43:55
  I swear it has to. Well, right, the the way I look
• 43:59
  at it, it's the biggest source of sell pressure on Bitcoin is
• 44:03
  not from miners covering their operating expenses.
• 44:05
  It's from people that bought Bitcoin at 1000 dollars, 5010
• 44:10
  thousand and they want to buy a house or Lambo or a yacht,
• 44:13
  right? It's it's those who've been
• 44:14
  holding on to Bitcoin for a long time.
• 44:16
  And you can see this on chain. You can see some of the older
• 44:19
  coins moved when we hit 70K in March of 2024.
• 44:22
  They moved again when we hit 100K in December of this year.
• 44:26
  And over the last six months we've seen a reconsolidation
• 44:29
  kind of, you know, setting the base level here here at 100K.
• 44:33
  So I think we move higher and we'll see some older coins start
• 44:36
  to move again. Totally, 100%.
• 44:39
  And yeah, I don't know if you saw the the Willy Woo tweet, but
• 44:42
  he's saying, you know, some of these mega whales have basically
• 44:45
  been selling it for years now. And these addresses with 10,000
• 44:49
  plus coins, they're on the market selling.
• 44:52
  And then let's not forget, you know, Germany sold 50,000 coins.
• 44:55
  We still don't know what's going on with EU s s Bitcoin.
• 44:59
  Maybe they sold that stuff. So it's starting to become very
• 45:03
  clear. I know a lot of people are like,
• 45:04
  who's selling this Bitcoin? I think we have enough data
• 45:07
  points to show a lot of Bitcoin has been sold, hence why the
• 45:10
  price is going down right now. Well, it's really not even that
• 45:14
  down. We're still above 100K.
• 45:15
  The price is going down, man. It's it's over here.
• 45:19
  But yeah, it's getting, it's getting interesting and
• 45:21
  something has to give soon enough.
• 45:23
  And on that point, something having to give.
• 45:27
  We saw JP Morgan bend the knee yesterday.
• 45:29
  They've been bending the knee the last couple of weeks.
• 45:31
  And I think this might be one of the bigger announcements of them
• 45:35
  bending the knee. And it might not be for the the,
• 45:38
  the perspective that you think it is.
• 45:40
  So let's cover this news story. And then, of course, we're going
• 45:43
  to talk to Mitchell about the infamous question he asked
• 45:47
  Michael Saylor. This guy's got some balls on
• 45:50
  them. All right, guys, let's get to
• 45:51
  the news. I want to give a shout out to
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• 48:18
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• 48:32
  All right guys anyways, enough trolling.
• 48:35
  Let's get into this news. So I think you guys all heard
• 48:38
  about this on Twitter. If you're not a, you know, if
• 48:40
  you're not obsessed with Twitter like us and you you obviously
• 48:44
  didn't hear about this, but everyone was kind of framing
• 48:47
  this in in the regards to loan. But I think there is something
• 48:52
  that is being missed and a few people did hit on this.
• 48:54
  So just kind of breaking the news.
• 48:56
  JP Morgan will not offer loans back by Bitcoin ETFs.
• 49:00
  And here is the Bloomberg kind of perspective because JP Morgan
• 49:03
  plans to offer clients financing against crypto ETFs.
• 49:06
  Now, the first point is just kind of, you know, explaining
• 49:09
  it, but I really want you to emphasize and pay attention to
• 49:13
  the second, second point, which I think is the bigger point
• 49:16
  here. So the first one is JP Morgan
• 49:18
  Chase and Co will allow trading and wealth management clients to
• 49:21
  use cryptocurrency linked assets as collateral for loans,
• 49:25
  starting with Blackrock's I shares Bitcoin Trust.
• 49:28
  And as this guy said, he's like, relax, it's just margin like
• 49:31
  every other broker already offers on IBIB.
• 49:33
  True, true, true. But this point, I think is
• 49:37
  probably the vibe shift, the sea change we're seeing.
• 49:40
  Of course, this is JP Morgan, one of the biggest banks in the
• 49:43
  world, if not literally the biggest bank in the world.
• 49:45
  When Jamie Dimon does something, the world listens.
• 49:48
  As I've heard through the Grapevine.
• 49:50
  You know, Jamie Dimon likes to say that he runs countries and
• 49:53
  he owns president. Or rather, he owns countries and
• 49:56
  runs. Either way, it works.
• 49:59
  Now this is the point that I found the most interesting.
• 50:02
  The second bullet point here. The bank will also consider
• 50:05
  clients crypto holdings when assessing their overall net
• 50:08
  worth and liquid assets, similar to stocks, cars or art.
• 50:12
  And of course, the changes will apply to all of the banks
• 50:14
  clients globally spanning multiple levels of wealth and
• 50:17
  come as big banks respond to client demand in a more
• 50:20
  favorable regulatory environment.
• 50:21
  But I want to reread this. The bank will also consider
• 50:24
  clients crypto holdings or rather Bitcoin holdings when
• 50:27
  assessing their overall net worth and liquid assets.
• 50:31
  This is a huge change from what we've seen in the past.
• 50:33
  And as zero head said here, you know, they, they tweeted this in
• 50:37
  last 2024 of November. Bitcoin is about to become safe
• 50:41
  collateral. Cantor Fitzgerald is discussing
• 50:44
  receiving support from Tether for its planned multibillion
• 50:46
  dollar program to lend dollars to clients who put up Bitcoin as
• 50:49
  collateral. And following up today he goes
• 50:52
  and there it is for JP Morgan. Bitcoin is now safe collateral.
• 50:57
  This is huge, guys. This is absolutely huge, major
• 51:01
  news. But I love this that second
• 51:03
  bullet point of essentially, hey now and then again, you know,
• 51:09
  maybe you don't like banks, maybe you don't like JP Morgan.
• 51:11
  Maybe this whole thing was spawned out of the O eight
• 51:13
  financial crisis. But now this goes into the the
• 51:17
  narrative and, and more of the theme that we've, we're kind of
• 51:20
  see start to, you know, rear its head or and pop its head out of
• 51:24
  the sand here. If JP Morgan is going to look at
• 51:28
  your Bitcoin now as a total of your net worth, it's no longer
• 51:32
  just, you know, a toxic thing you hold.
• 51:34
  It's no longer going to work against your credit score.
• 51:37
  Obviously, this has to ripple through the markets, but I think
• 51:40
  this is a huge, huge move or rather a huge point in the
• 51:44
  adoption of Bitcoin. Again, of course, I'm not the
• 51:47
  biggest fan of banks here, but Bitcoin is now safe collateral.
• 51:50
  And if you listen to the CJ interview I did with him at
• 51:54
  Bitcoin 2025, sailors been saying this, They're all saying
• 51:58
  something similar. Bitcoin is pristine collateral.
• 52:01
  Now the world's waking up to this.
• 52:02
  JP Morgan just, you know, put the stamp of approval out there.
• 52:06
  Bitcoin is safe collateral out here, guys.
• 52:09
  If you hold Bitcoin, hey, all of our net worth on paper just went
• 52:13
  up because they just counted our Bitcoin.
• 52:16
  Maybe we are the new elites here.
• 52:17
  I don't know. Who knows what's going on here.
• 52:20
  But Mitchell, what's your thoughts hearing this statement
• 52:23
  from JP Morgan? Bitcoiners are the new elites
• 52:27
  and JP Morgan Chase and all these other banks have to play
• 52:31
  ball. They have no choice.
• 52:33
  In early of 2024, Jamie Dimon was at Davos for the World
• 52:37
  Economic Forum, and he's calling Bitcoin a pet rock.
• 52:40
  Meanwhile, behind the scenes, he's cooking up this product.
• 52:43
  They're an AP on the Bitcoin ETF.
• 52:45
  So you got to look at what they're doing, not what they're
• 52:47
  saying. And yeah, Jamie Dimon, he could
• 52:50
  kick rocks, right? He's been going on these shows
• 52:51
  for years, bad mouthing Bitcoin, saying all this stuff.
• 52:54
  And like you said, people take his word as gospel.
• 52:56
  He owns, you know, the banking system.
• 52:59
  They run the world. He does own presidents and and
• 53:02
  probably makes a lot of moves behind the scenes.
• 53:04
  And so at the end of the day, these are enemies to Bitcoin.
• 53:07
  But whether we like it or not, we can't stop them from
• 53:11
  participating. And it really is just a matter
• 53:13
  of incentives. Bitcoiners are becoming wealthy.
• 53:16
  They want to profit on anything and everything.
• 53:19
  And so they're going to come up with a gajillion clever ways to
• 53:22
  try to get your Bitcoin, to try to get you to voluntarily move
• 53:25
  it out of self custody. I think we're heading to a world
• 53:28
  where you'll be able to deposit your Bitcoin into a bank, give
• 53:32
  up custody, and in exchange, you can borrow against it at Sofer
• 53:36
  plus one or Sofer +2, right? There's going to be a lot of
• 53:40
  tasty, yummy, juicy carrots at the end of the stick.
• 53:43
  And the challenge for you and for all the listeners is can you
• 53:46
  hold on to your Bitcoin in self custody despite all of that?
• 53:50
  Yeah, Mitchell, I'm glad you brought that up because that was
• 53:53
  one of the things I wanted to bring up as well.
• 53:54
  Is this idea of, guys, if you take anything from the
• 53:58
  politicians, the nation States and the institutions coming into
• 54:02
  Bitcoin or the Bitcoin treasury strategies right now, whether
• 54:06
  you like them or not, the biggest take away is they want
• 54:09
  your Bitcoin. They are doing whatever they can
• 54:12
  to incentivize you to give up those keys so that they either
• 54:16
  hold it themselves or that they can profit off of this Bitcoin.
• 54:19
  This is why we constantly tell you just keep it simple.
• 54:24
  Buy Bitcoin, store it in your cold storage, go live your life.
• 54:29
  The best way for them not to get their grubby hands on your
• 54:31
  Bitcoin is you don't give them your Bitcoin, guys.
• 54:34
  So as much as they're incentivizing us to give them
• 54:37
  our Bitcoin, we'll take the stamp of approval.
• 54:41
  You know, this is I think this will be right now, it's probably
• 54:44
  a little under the radar, But for for the masses out there
• 54:47
  that the fabled masses coming into Bitcoin, these are more
• 54:51
  legitimizing points for people to kind of start to grab, you
• 54:55
  know, kind of revolve their minds around this idea that,
• 54:57
  hey, maybe I do need to buy some Bitcoin.
• 55:00
  Hey, if Jamie Dimon's out here, like, Oh yeah, hey, we'll sell
• 55:02
  you Bitcoin, you know, at, at Morgan Chase, we'll also, we'll
• 55:08
  take your Bitcoin as collateral. It's starting to sound like
• 55:11
  Bitcoin is literally a macro asset now.
• 55:15
  It's I think it's safe to say we've been completely
• 55:17
  legitimized. The only next move is just the
• 55:20
  price running up and then the FOMO train catching on and like,
• 55:23
  all right, guys, we're here. We made it.
• 55:25
  You know, the Trojan horse into Wall Street is here.
• 55:27
  And then the next thing is is like just funnel all that
• 55:30
  capital into the Bitcoin market cap.
• 55:32
  And I don't know, maybe you know, we were joking earlier,
• 55:35
  Mitchell, maybe maybe it is game over in a few couple, maybe in
• 55:38
  three years, maybe it is game over.
• 55:39
  I don't know. I was thinking 8 years but.
• 55:42
  I mean, there's too much momentum right now.
• 55:44
  There's so much momentum. And, you know, if you just look
• 55:48
  at it from a lender's perspective, Bitcoin, Bitcoin is
• 55:52
  perfect collateral. It's the only thing that's mark
• 55:55
  to market 24/7 that you can have joint custody, that's
• 55:58
  transparent, you can liquidate it anytime.
• 56:01
  Like you're trying to borrow against someone's house.
• 56:03
  And then the real estate market crashes and you can't exactly
• 56:06
  sell the collateral. And all the all this stuff like,
• 56:09
  yeah, that's just historically been a headache for
• 56:11
  institutions. It's like, hey, I can lend money
• 56:14
  and I can take, you know, Bitcoin 50% LTV as collateral if
• 56:17
  I need to, if they're not paying back a loan, boom, sell the
• 56:20
  Bitcoin lender is made whole 0 risk.
• 56:22
  And as a buyer, you know, you don't need a credit score.
• 56:25
  I don't have to have a good credit score.
• 56:26
  And I could say, hey, here's this Bitcoin as collateral like
• 56:29
  that is the credit score. That is the proof there's
• 56:32
  capital right here that backs this loan.
• 56:34
  So it is the perfect financial instrument and it was inevitable
• 56:38
  that it would get used in this way.
• 56:40
  Yeah, totally. I think I'm speaking for every
• 56:43
  Bitcoiner here who's got a good credit score.
• 56:47
  Bro, what is this? What is this credit score thing?
• 56:52
  I haven't looked at my credit score in years, and I'm pretty
• 56:54
  sure it's not that good. You know, I got to get an
• 56:57
  apartment soon and I'm like, I still have to get my mom to
• 56:59
  cosign. We'll see if I even get an
• 57:00
  apartment here. Your boy, your boy's credit
• 57:02
  score is done. Absolutely wrecked.
• 57:05
  But we have the best collateral in the world.
• 57:07
  Of course, that's Bitcoin. All right, let's get into the
• 57:10
  spicy fun topic to wrap up the show.
• 57:12
  Mitchell Hoddle asking Michael Saylor proof of reserves and
• 57:16
  we'll talk about the, you know, the backlash and, and the
• 57:19
  community response to that because it it, it got a little
• 57:22
  heated very quickly. So let's do the last transition
• 57:25
  and we'll talk with Mitchell Hoddle.
• 57:28
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• 59:30
  Before we get, before we talk to Mitchell, I love this comment
• 59:33
  here. A credit.
• 59:35
  What? What, what, what is this thing
• 59:37
  you're talking about? All right, anyways, Mitchell,
• 59:40
  we're not going to play the whole video, but I do have here
• 59:42
  for reference, you know, Mitchell Hoddle at the Bitcoin
• 59:47
  conference, you kind of made it. Yeah.
• 59:49
  I think this might have been your most viral moment here,
• 59:52
  bro. You, you got up there, you were
• 59:55
  telling me at the conference you're like, man, I was so
• 59:57
  nervous. I don't know if you can tell.
• 59:59
  You're like, what was I thinking?
• 1:00:01
  You know, you went up there and asked Sailor about proof of
• 1:00:04
  reserve and his his response? You can say it, it was, you
• 1:00:10
  know, is maybe missing the Bitcoin ethos, but it was
• 1:00:13
  lackluster. And you know, you're at the
• 1:00:15
  heart of it. And we and we were trying to get
• 1:00:16
  you on the show during our, our, our, you know, rumble coverage
• 1:00:20
  here, but we we couldn't deal with the chairs.
• 1:00:22
  So we're doing it now, man. First of all, you know how?
• 1:00:27
  How'd that feel to ask sailor bro?
• 1:00:30
  I was definitely shaking. I mean, I had a chance to ask
• 1:00:34
  him a question. I knew man, you're probably
• 1:00:36
  never going to get another opportunity to do this again.
• 1:00:38
  This was a a pretty like private intimate event.
• 1:00:41
  It was run by Bitwise and Bitcoin for corporations.
• 1:00:44
  And so you can imagine this is like the sailor stuff, sailor
• 1:00:48
  fanboys like his, his, his groupies and everything, all
• 1:00:52
  his, his lovers there. And for some reason, the only
• 1:00:55
  question that came to my mind was one that's kind of
• 1:00:57
  antagonistic and in a bit of a hot button issue.
• 1:01:00
  But it's personally the, the number one thing I've wanted to
• 1:01:03
  know. I'm a strategy shareholder.
• 1:01:05
  I like what they're doing. I think they have all the
• 1:01:07
  Bitcoin, but I, I just had to do it, had to ask him.
• 1:01:09
  I was a little nervous and I was overwhelmingly surprised by how
• 1:01:14
  adamant he was against proof of reserves.
• 1:01:16
  And it definitely sparked a lot of debate and I've been able to
• 1:01:19
  learn a lot. It's a, it's a bit more of a
• 1:01:22
  nuanced issue than I than I thought it was originally.
• 1:01:25
  So we can we can dive into all those nuances.
• 1:01:27
  Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I'd love to, I mean, you
• 1:01:29
  were ground 0 for this, you know, this question.
• 1:01:33
  So what have you learned since, you know, you asked that
• 1:01:36
  question? Because obviously like from a
• 1:01:38
  Bitcoin perspective and well, first of all, we have seen some
• 1:01:41
  responses from some very big companies in the Bitcoin space
• 1:01:44
  just being like, here's proof of reserves, bro.
• 1:01:47
  But I think there is kind of some nuance here that I think a
• 1:01:51
  lot of us Bitcoiners either we're just not kind of familiar
• 1:01:54
  with. There's obviously, you know,
• 1:01:56
  he's playing a different game than we are.
• 1:01:57
  And we're just kind of, you know, toxic Bitcoiners like, yo,
• 1:02:01
  bro, just like, show me the corn.
• 1:02:02
  Like where's the corn, bro? So what have you learned since
• 1:02:05
  this? Like what is the nuance?
• 1:02:07
  Yeah, I'll steel man his position 1st and he did open his
• 1:02:12
  monologue by saying if you don't trust them, if you don't want to
• 1:02:16
  own an equity, just buy Bitcoin taking out a cold storage boom.
• 1:02:19
  I agree with that and I think that could solve a lot of
• 1:02:21
  people's issues, like even if you think you know, he's running
• 1:02:24
  some kind of game or Coinbase doesn't actually have the coins
• 1:02:28
  they re hypothecated. Well in that scenario where that
• 1:02:31
  blows up, cold storage bitcoins going to be the winner because
• 1:02:34
  that's going to be 500,000 Bitcoin that people thought
• 1:02:37
  existed that turns out it doesn't.
• 1:02:39
  So the MSTR equity holders would lose and the cold storage
• 1:02:42
  bitcoiners would win. So fundamentally those kind of
• 1:02:44
  shenanigans would not be a threat to Bitcoin over the long
• 1:02:47
  term. You might see a a short term
• 1:02:49
  liquidity crunch, etcetera, but it would be actually pretty
• 1:02:53
  bullish for people holding Bitcoin in cold storage.
• 1:02:55
  Now Saylor gave 2 specific reasons as to why he does not
• 1:03:00
  intend to publish proof of reserves.
• 1:03:02
  First, is that proof of reserves without BIG4 audited liabilities
• 1:03:07
  doesn't really provide any kind of comfort or security, doesn't
• 1:03:10
  let you know about the true financial state of the entity.
• 1:03:13
  That makes perfect sense. And they're public institutions,
• 1:03:15
  so all their financials are already audited anyways.
• 1:03:18
  Now, as a Bitcoiner, like I don't care about a BIG4 audit.
• 1:03:22
  Like I, I don't like the big four, I like Bitcoin and Bitcoin
• 1:03:25
  is the most transparent audit there is.
• 1:03:27
  It's audited every 10 minutes. So I mean, I'm going to continue
• 1:03:30
  to hold strategy, but that's somewhat of a fair response.
• 1:03:33
  But the second was it's a security risk.
• 1:03:36
  Now, if you're an individual publishing your own personal
• 1:03:40
  addresses, that is a security risk because you don't want to
• 1:03:43
  broadcast to the world how much Bitcoin you have because it
• 1:03:46
  could make you a target for a $5 wrench attack, getting
• 1:03:48
  kidnapped, held for ransom, whatever.
• 1:03:51
  And you don't want people tracking your coins around
• 1:03:53
  seeing when you spend, you know, I buy AT shirt from you Opti and
• 1:03:56
  I'm using, you know, A10 Bitcoin UTXO and you look on chain.
• 1:03:59
  It's like, man, it's just got 10 Bitcoin.
• 1:04:02
  You know, you never know. So as an individual, you don't
• 1:04:04
  want to do that. But when you're a public company
• 1:04:05
  like they are, and you're already saying how much Bitcoin
• 1:04:08
  you have and it represents, you know, Bitcoin that belongs to
• 1:04:11
  the entities, the company, the shareholders, not Sailor
• 1:04:14
  himself, that logic doesn't really follow through because
• 1:04:17
  you already published to the world 500,000 bitcoins.
• 1:04:20
  So in on top of that, we're seeing, like you alluded to,
• 1:04:24
  other companies are positioning themselves as, hey, we're going
• 1:04:27
  to do proof of reserves. Literally yesterday Jack
• 1:04:29
  Mahler's in 21, he published 4 addresses on his Twitter account
• 1:04:34
  saying, hey, this is 21's Bitcoin from Tether, this is
• 1:04:37
  from Bitfinex, this is from SoftBank, yadda, yadda, yadda.
• 1:04:40
  And so other companies clearly don't see it as a security risk.
• 1:04:44
  Bitwise who sponsor this event, I asked them the question that
• 1:04:47
  they published proof of reserves Metaplanet does their CEO was in
• 1:04:51
  the audience. And so I think ultimately this
• 1:04:53
  will leave room for other Bitcoin treasury companies to
• 1:04:56
  distinguish themselves and compete.
• 1:04:59
  And I think if we, you know, really my goal with this was to
• 1:05:02
  spark the conversation. I was pretty neutral on the
• 1:05:04
  issue. I wanted to get the conversation
• 1:05:06
  going. And I think what we can do is
• 1:05:08
  shift the Overton window further and further to proof of reserves
• 1:05:12
  where ultimately it'll it'll kind of look foolish for him not
• 1:05:14
  to. Yeah, totally.
• 1:05:17
  And I and I think, I think you fully succeeded on that shifting
• 1:05:20
  the Overton window because it went absolutely viral.
• 1:05:23
  Everyone's freaking out. And, you know, the response to
• 1:05:26
  by Jack Mahler's was huge, I would say.
• 1:05:30
  And you know, he's kind of in his own hot water.
• 1:05:32
  And he responded very quickly to this.
• 1:05:34
  So when when this news came out by Sailor, on the one hand, as
• 1:05:39
  like a Bitcoiner, he's like, yo, just like show the coin, bro.
• 1:05:42
  Like show the address. Where's the coin?
• 1:05:44
  Do you even really have all that Bitcoin, which is what a lot of
• 1:05:47
  people have been saying. But when you kind of hear his
• 1:05:49
  take, though, I don't know if it, you know, kind of chalks up
• 1:05:53
  to my muster here again, he's playing a different game.
• 1:05:56
  I don't understand all the the nuance here.
• 1:05:59
  It did seem a little lackluster. But when you steal, man, a
• 1:06:01
  little bit, you're like, OK, like, I can see how he's coming
• 1:06:04
  from that perspective. But as someone said, and I
• 1:06:07
  forget who it was on Twitter, they basically said like, you
• 1:06:09
  know, trusting the Fiat system to audit your Bitcoin holdings,
• 1:06:12
  like sounds like a good plan, bro.
• 1:06:14
  And you're just like, gotta agree with this one.
• 1:06:17
  Gotta agree with that. So, I mean, I think we covered
• 1:06:20
  that. But Mitchell, since that post,
• 1:06:24
  do you think he sparked a new phenomenon?
• 1:06:26
  Are we going to be seeing proof of reserves from everyone now?
• 1:06:29
  Not everyone, but I think a lot of the important players, they
• 1:06:33
  have to, they have a decision to make, right.
• 1:06:35
  You know, the first was this decision was do we actually buy
• 1:06:37
  Bitcoin for our company balance sheet?
• 1:06:39
  And the second one is do we broadcast to the world and do we
• 1:06:43
  be transparent about that? And so I think every institution
• 1:06:46
  that holds Bitcoin, especially if you're publicly traded and
• 1:06:49
  you have shareholders, it is definitely something you need to
• 1:06:51
  think about. And another point that I've
• 1:06:54
  thought about a lot since this event is why doesn't strategy
• 1:06:58
  just buy their own custodian or build their own custody
• 1:07:01
  solution, right? They, this is my, you know,
• 1:07:04
  speculation. I don't have any inside
• 1:07:06
  information, but I imagine Saylor has his, well, we know he
• 1:07:10
  it's outsourced to a third party.
• 1:07:12
  It's Coinbase, probably Fidelity, it's probably Bitco.
• 1:07:15
  You know, it's probably scattered across a couple
• 1:07:17
  different entities. And it could be more of a
• 1:07:19
  logistical and technical headache to get all the the
• 1:07:22
  addresses sorted out and everything and make sure all the
• 1:07:24
  custody is in nice one clean dashboard.
• 1:07:27
  And I think he was called off when I asked him the question.
• 1:07:29
  He wasn't prepared. And that's just kind of like
• 1:07:31
  what came to his head when really it's more of a a
• 1:07:33
  logistical challenge. So I think a lot of the concern
• 1:07:37
  if from a shareholder perspective could be alleviated
• 1:07:39
  if strategy did in house custody even if they didn't publish the
• 1:07:43
  addresses, that's just one less intermediate party between the
• 1:07:46
  shareholder and the Bitcoin and it and it would diminish risk
• 1:07:49
  greatly. Yeah, I mean, I think we saw, if
• 1:07:54
  I'm remembering correctly. Oh, no, I think I was thinking
• 1:07:57
  of BlackRock. You know, obviously everyone,
• 1:08:00
  everyone gives gives Hitler some shit about holding all his
• 1:08:04
  Bitcoin at Coinbase. But I was thinking that didn't
• 1:08:07
  he come out and say that he also used Anchorage for his custody?
• 1:08:10
  But that was BlackRock that came out and said that.
• 1:08:13
  So who knows, You know, who knows what's going on behind the
• 1:08:16
  scenes, But it definitely sparked some outrage on the
• 1:08:19
  timeline and of course, a very solid response from a lot of the
• 1:08:24
  Bitcoin companies, which, you know, I don't I don't want to
• 1:08:27
  say align better with the Bitcoin ethos, but it is going
• 1:08:31
  to show that I think as Bitcoiners, we are going to see
• 1:08:35
  just a fundamental shift on how corporations and institutions,
• 1:08:39
  you know, handle their finances. It will be more transparent.
• 1:08:42
  That's the beauty of Bitcoin. So, you know, Sailor, maybe at
• 1:08:46
  this point does have some concerns.
• 1:08:47
  Maybe you maybe you're thinking, you know, they're, they're
• 1:08:51
  viable concerns that like, you know, give them, give them a
• 1:08:54
  little bit of leeway, but we're seeing other companies do the
• 1:08:57
  opposite. So I think this kind of this
• 1:08:59
  really kind of goes back to I'm, I'm being reminded of the how
• 1:09:02
  Finney quote, you know, he said there will be fractional reserve
• 1:09:05
  Bitcoin banks and there will be full reserve Bitcoin banks and
• 1:09:08
  the market will figure out which banks they want to use.
• 1:09:12
  I'm not saying that Sailor is re hypothecating or fractional
• 1:09:16
  reserve any of that Bitcoin he holds, but the market is yet to
• 1:09:19
  find out like these new Bitcoin treasury companies are brand
• 1:09:22
  new. Essentially, this is a whole new
• 1:09:24
  phenomenon. It's catch and storm.
• 1:09:26
  And I think one of the things we've been saying on the show,
• 1:09:29
  it's like Bitcoin treasuries do seem to be taking the hype away
• 1:09:32
  from all coins. And they may be the new, you
• 1:09:35
  know, Icos of this cycle. And I think I don't think it's
• 1:09:39
  going to be sailor because it looks like he stacked his debt
• 1:09:42
  and leverage in a very creative and smart way.
• 1:09:45
  But we will be seeing, I think, some Bitcoin treasury companies
• 1:09:51
  that blow up in the next couple of years because they, you know,
• 1:09:54
  they have to differentiate themselves from each other.
• 1:09:57
  Some people are going to take more leverage, more risky
• 1:09:59
  leverage. And at some point some of these
• 1:10:02
  will blow up, hence why we're always like, yo, safest place to
• 1:10:06
  be is Bitcoin in cold storage. Just just keep it simple bro.
• 1:10:10
  You know, don't get greedy out here and try to go for the the
• 1:10:14
  20X games when you can get a 10X gain.
• 1:10:16
  Like what? What are we doing here man?
• 1:10:18
  Let's let's keep it simple and and stack Bitcoin into cold
• 1:10:21
  storage. So crazy, crazy stuff.
• 1:10:25
  And it's, it's, I think some of them will blow up and you have
• 1:10:27
  to, you know, if you don't want to sit here and be a financial
• 1:10:30
  analyst and do due diligence on each and every one of them, like
• 1:10:33
  you said, just buy Bitcoin, hold it in cold storage.
• 1:10:35
  It's going to millions of dollars.
• 1:10:37
  That should be enough for anyone to live a comfortable life.
• 1:10:39
  But if you are, you know, if you're a finance dork, dive into
• 1:10:42
  these, figure out which ones are legit.
• 1:10:44
  Because unlike altcoins, which are all scams, Bitcoin treasury
• 1:10:48
  companies are legitimate entities.
• 1:10:50
  They're bringing capital into the Bitcoin world.
• 1:10:52
  They're increasing Bitcoin per share, which which means they're
• 1:10:56
  increasing shareholders directional exposure to Bitcoin.
• 1:10:58
  I think they're a key player, a key piece of the entire Bitcoin
• 1:11:02
  story, especially this sort of era, this epoch we're in.
• 1:11:05
  So I wouldn't dismiss them entirely, but you definitely
• 1:11:08
  have to be careful, especially as the market starts to get a
• 1:11:11
  little frothy. Totally, man, totally.
• 1:11:14
  As we kind of said, actually, there's two teams here, you
• 1:11:17
  know, 1 Bitcoins going to eat up all of these huge capital
• 1:11:20
  markets and two, everyone's trying to find creative ways to
• 1:11:24
  get your Bitcoin. So, you know, two things can be
• 1:11:27
  playing out at once. Bitcoin's going to a ridiculous
• 1:11:30
  price point and they're going to find ways to, you know, separate
• 1:11:35
  you from your Bitcoin. So it's no time to not keep your
• 1:11:38
  head on a swivel if now it's probably becoming more important
• 1:11:41
  than ever. So things are, things are
• 1:11:43
  getting wild. Anyways, Mitchell, before we
• 1:11:45
  wrap up the show, I want to give you the, you know, final minute,
• 1:11:48
  couple minutes. What's the last message you want
• 1:11:51
  to send with the people? And then we'll wrap up today's
• 1:11:53
  show. Yeah, The last message would be
• 1:11:57
  accumulate Bitcoin into your cold storage.
• 1:11:59
  You know, you could see this big shiny block where you sign
• 1:12:02
  behind me. We make Bitcoin mining
• 1:12:03
  accessible to everyone. And with Bitcoin being this new
• 1:12:07
  benchmark, you want to outperform it, but you also want
• 1:12:09
  Bitcoin and cold storage. And so, you know, buying these
• 1:12:12
  treasury companies is great, but how often are you denominating
• 1:12:16
  that trade in Bitcoin, selling it, sending, you know, wiring
• 1:12:19
  those funds to an exchange, buying Bitcoin, taking it to
• 1:12:21
  cold storage? Like there's a lot of friction
• 1:12:23
  there. And so we make mining accessible
• 1:12:25
  to everyone. It's one way you can outperform
• 1:12:27
  Bitcoin over a longer period of time.
• 1:12:29
  You don't have to run a machine at your house.
• 1:12:31
  You can buy one that's plugged in in our world class data
• 1:12:34
  centers, low cost power and you can get the Bitcoin sent
• 1:12:37
  directly to your cold storage every single day.
• 1:12:39
  There's there's no friction in that over multiple year,
• 1:12:43
  multiple years, you're able to accumulate a lot of Bitcoin.
• 1:12:45
  So it's a great way to kind of dollar cost average at a
• 1:12:48
  discount. Let's go.
• 1:12:50
  All right, Mitchell, well, and also I, I feels feels funny
• 1:12:55
  plugging your book here cuz, you know, you are so ahead of the
• 1:12:58
  curve here, but he's also an author here, you know, the
• 1:13:00
  conservative case for Bitcoin. And at this point you were, you
• 1:13:05
  were ahead of the curve now. And now we have Wall Street
• 1:13:07
  Journal and Wired basically saying like, look at these
• 1:13:09
  crypto Bros. But yeah, go check out his book
• 1:13:12
  or maybe send it to your parents or something like that.
• 1:13:15
  Anyway, yes. If you have boomer parents that
• 1:13:17
  aren't into Bitcoin, it's a great resource for them.
• 1:13:21
  Exactly, exactly. All right, Mitchell.
• 1:13:23
  Well, thanks for coming on one of my favorite zoomers.
• 1:13:26
  I think I think your future is bright, my friend, and you're
• 1:13:30
  absolutely killing it. You know, I guess I find
• 1:13:33
  yourself in some more viral moments.
• 1:13:34
  I don't know how many times you can ask Taylor about proof of
• 1:13:37
  reserves, but I'm sure that we'll he'll learn more about
• 1:13:40
  what you're doing, Mitch. So thanks for coming on, man.
• 1:13:43
  And also I, I think we did a pretty good job with just one
• 1:13:46
  host and our guest today. So new things trying.
• 1:13:49
  Anyways, Mitch, let me pull you behind the scenes and I will
• 1:13:51
  wrap up today's show. Hang out for 30 seconds.
• 1:13:54
  All righty then guys. So this was Thursday, June 5th
• 1:13:58
  show. I think it was episode 1260.
• 1:14:02
  Of course I'm your host Optimus Fields.
• 1:14:04
  Nico will be out tomorrow as well.
• 1:14:07
  He is doing some interesting stuff.
• 1:14:10
  Has to get on a plane. So we're going to be holding it
• 1:14:12
  down here I think for a couple of days guys.
• 1:14:15
  So you're stuck with me I think until like Thursday of next
• 1:14:18
  week. You got a week of Opti shows.
• 1:14:21
  So you know, if you don't like me TuneIn a week from now now
• 1:14:24
  and we'll get it back to normal, but you already know we're going
• 1:14:27
  to get bullish and we're going to have some fun.
• 1:14:29
  On that note, guys, good to see you and I will see you tomorrow.
• 1:14:34
  Peace out. Today's episode was brought to
• 1:14:37
  you by bitcoinwell.com, a Bitcoin only platform on a
• 1:14:41
  mission to enable financial independence.