Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / Pete Crow-Armstrong and the Cubs' youth movement

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Pete Crow-Armstrong and the Cubs' youth movement · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome into North Side Territory Powel Territory Network Cubs Podcast.
0:09
Speaker 1: I'm Dodd Ave Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We
0:12
Speaker 1: are your Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic and
0:16
Speaker 1: we have switched spots once again. Patrick are out in Arizona.
0:20
Speaker 1: I'm back home in the Chicago Land area. I missed
0:24
Speaker 1: the heat bape, the heat wave. You were home for
0:28
Speaker 1: fifties and apparently that is not what I am experiencing.
0:33
Speaker 1: Uh So I'm a little bitter about it all, but
0:36
Speaker 1: I guess this is life.
0:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually kind of fifties and sunny here right now,
0:42
Speaker 2: you know, not quite shortsweather, but you know, I don't know,
0:47
Speaker 2: I don't know it's ever shorts weather in a professional
0:50
Speaker 2: working environment. But maybe that's a cranky old.
0:52
Speaker 1: Man, but I disagree.
0:58
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the funny part is like normally this
1:00
Speaker 2: time I spring training, it's like kind of like a
1:02
Speaker 2: dead period and you're like, all right, what do we
1:04
Speaker 2: got left?
1:05
Speaker 1: Like and but I don't know.
1:07
Speaker 2: I kind of got back down here and I'm looking
1:10
Speaker 2: at the calendar and it's like, oh wow, we really
1:12
Speaker 2: got to kick it into gear here and get you know,
1:14
Speaker 2: kind of our opening day stuff together and like real,
1:17
Speaker 2: real stuff, real decisions are going to be happening. And
1:22
Speaker 2: you know, I loved your PCA story. That kind of
1:28
Speaker 2: kicked off the week here. Then of course, the next
1:33
Speaker 2: day he gets scratched from.
1:34
Speaker 1: The lineup that I was like, oh god for.
1:37
Speaker 2: Hamstring tightness, which he said was nothing out of the ordinary.
1:42
Speaker 2: You know, it was kind of one of those funny
1:43
Speaker 2: things at his locker where people are asking about, you know, like, oh,
1:45
Speaker 2: the maturity it took for you to make this decision.
1:48
Speaker 2: And then we talked to counsel like half an hour
1:50
Speaker 2: later and he's like, Frankly, that was my decision.
1:54
Speaker 3: There was a conversation and they do have a good relationship.
1:57
Speaker 2: But you know, he goes out there and just just
2:00
Speaker 2: flying around the bases, you know, you know, not long
2:03
Speaker 2: after saying, well, we got to you know, take our
2:04
Speaker 2: time and make you know, you know, there's a time
2:07
Speaker 2: and place for everything. And then of course he gets
2:08
Speaker 2: on the field and he's just flying around everywhere.
2:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know that was kind of the the
2:15
Speaker 1: idea of how good can people arms trunk be? That
2:18
Speaker 1: is kind of the premise, and it look, he's not fixed.
2:22
Speaker 1: He's not an offensive superstar. He's not like I'm not
2:25
Speaker 1: buying fully in the final two months. You know, there
2:28
Speaker 1: were ups and downs even in those final two months.
2:31
Speaker 1: But I really like every conversation I have with him.
2:35
Speaker 1: I feel like I like him a little bit more.
2:39
Speaker 1: He's very it's very unvarnished when you talk to him.
2:44
Speaker 1: There's a he doesn't censor himself and in multiple ways,
2:48
Speaker 1: right Like he'll tell you he's honest, and he also
2:51
Speaker 1: swears a lot. Yeah, and I'm fine with this, which
2:55
Speaker 1: is great, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, But I just appreciate
3:00
Speaker 1: the honesty. I appreciate there's an awareness, right Like we
3:06
Speaker 1: talk about this a lot, like the cockiness versus confident, right,
3:10
Speaker 1: And there are people that aren't self aware and they're cocky.
3:14
Speaker 1: They think they're being confident, and it's just like, this
3:17
Speaker 1: is coming across really poorly. That's not him, Like he
3:21
Speaker 1: is well aware that he has work to do, that
3:23
Speaker 1: it's not finished. He's confident I can be that player.
3:26
Speaker 1: That's my expectation for myself. I have work to do.
3:29
Speaker 1: I need to put in the work to be that player.
3:32
Speaker 1: That he's confident he can be that star. And I
3:36
Speaker 1: liked it. I was like I was like, I know
3:37
Speaker 1: players don't think in terms of war, but you know,
3:41
Speaker 1: just with your defense and base running, you're a valuable
3:44
Speaker 1: player by war. And now if you add in what
3:47
Speaker 1: you did in that final two months, if you extrapolate
3:49
Speaker 1: that over a full season, He's like, Oh, I've done
3:51
Speaker 1: the math, and I just I love that. It's like, Okay,
3:57
Speaker 1: talk to some of his teammates happen Swanson, some of
3:59
Speaker 1: the guys in there, just to see their thoughts on
4:03
Speaker 1: his work ethic and what they think and that they
4:05
Speaker 1: had similar things. Right, two smart guys to do you
4:08
Speaker 1: guys like especially Half when when it comes to the numbers,
4:11
Speaker 1: he's well aware of those things and he's like he's
4:13
Speaker 1: like he doesn't. They both are like he doesn't need
4:16
Speaker 1: to hit and he's going to be so important for us,
4:20
Speaker 1: but if he does, look out like that's a scary
4:23
Speaker 1: player and he's just fun. It's a I mean, you
4:27
Speaker 1: like the Springs training stuff. There was whatever day that
4:30
Speaker 1: was where he's running around the bases Tuesday where he's
4:32
Speaker 1: running around the bases, and he had something else just
4:35
Speaker 1: like that a week prior, Like he does it every
4:38
Speaker 1: other week. It's gonna happen if he gets on base.
4:41
Speaker 1: It is it's kind of like we talk about the
4:45
Speaker 1: Hobby comps, but that's what it is. It's like, I
4:48
Speaker 1: think it's a little more controlled than Hobby too. There's
4:52
Speaker 1: more speed, right, It's it's a different type, but there's
4:56
Speaker 1: he's causing havoc out there and it's in their head
4:59
Speaker 1: right like a bench. They have to account for him, right,
5:03
Speaker 1: whether it's now or six months from now when whenever,
5:08
Speaker 1: the teams will have to be like, you know, it's
5:10
Speaker 1: one of those frustrations like if we get him on,
5:12
Speaker 1: if he if we allow him on base, he's on
5:15
Speaker 1: the in the pitcher's head, he's in the catcher's head,
5:17
Speaker 1: he's on the defender's head. I think that's that's something
5:20
Speaker 1: that you can't really measure.
5:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is wild.
5:24
Speaker 2: How you know Pca gets traded for Elmago and we
5:29
Speaker 2: see these similarities and it's not just a fan media thing.
5:32
Speaker 2: It's how like the organization talked about him about Okay,
5:36
Speaker 2: when he comes up, you know, what can he bring,
5:40
Speaker 2: what can he do?
5:41
Speaker 3: Where should we place him? And it was the idea
5:43
Speaker 3: of when.
5:44
Speaker 2: Hobby came up, you could hit him towards the bottom
5:47
Speaker 2: of the lineup, and he would bring something every day
5:50
Speaker 2: to help you win. And you Craig Counsel is a
5:53
Speaker 2: manager who you know, we've both been told is obsessed
5:57
Speaker 2: with defense. Like he doesn't doesn't really care if young
6:02
Speaker 2: hitters don't hit. He's like that young hitters aren't supposed
6:04
Speaker 2: to hit in the majors right away. He's willing to
6:08
Speaker 2: be patient and live with those mistakes so long as
6:14
Speaker 2: the player can bring it on defense.
6:18
Speaker 3: And that's what.
6:20
Speaker 2: Pete does. I think that was well put of, just
6:24
Speaker 2: the idea of how sharp he is, you know, and
6:28
Speaker 2: just like you said, sprinkling in f bombs constantly. But
6:34
Speaker 2: he's also just like he's just real, you know, he
6:36
Speaker 2: doesn't really speak in cliches. But also everything nothing he
6:41
Speaker 2: says is like you know, that controversial. It's just like
6:45
Speaker 2: you said, very where thoughtful, forward thinking, contextual. And you know,
6:53
Speaker 2: this is kind of a long wind up to what
6:55
Speaker 2: was probably the most interesting part of your piece, the
6:58
Speaker 2: idea of a contract extension.
7:01
Speaker 3: Could you see this happening? Should it happen?
7:05
Speaker 1: So the question is should? I think is interesting too, right,
7:09
Speaker 1: And fans are getting annoyed by how much we talk
7:12
Speaker 1: about the salaries and the finances. I think, but guess what,
7:17
Speaker 1: it's a reality, and I think we're going to be
7:18
Speaker 1: talking about it for a while, so just get used
7:20
Speaker 1: to it, because it is something like this is not
7:23
Speaker 1: something we're making up out of thin air, is how
7:25
Speaker 1: I would phrase it. And I think, if you're going
7:29
Speaker 1: to behave in this manner where you're carrying a two
7:32
Speaker 1: tennish million dollar pay roll and only raising that for
7:36
Speaker 1: you know, exceptions here and there, you have to start
7:40
Speaker 1: thinking in the manner of how do we lock up
7:44
Speaker 1: guys for good deals?
7:46
Speaker 3: Right?
7:46
Speaker 1: And it's a risk. There's always the risk of it
7:49
Speaker 1: ends up like the White Sox right where you sign
7:51
Speaker 1: the wrong guys, they don't turn into the players that
7:54
Speaker 1: you need, that you want to build around. There's also
7:58
Speaker 1: the upside of it turns into the Atlanta Braves who
8:02
Speaker 1: have Michael Harris, Austin Riley, Ronald Acunya, Sean Murphy, there's
8:10
Speaker 1: probably Matt Olsen is yeah. I mean, I think Albie's right.
8:15
Speaker 1: All these guys are on extensions that are just ridiculously cheap.
8:18
Speaker 1: Did did the Pitcher Strider? Did he sign an extension?
8:22
Speaker 1: It seems like everyone did. I could be wrong. I
8:25
Speaker 1: don't like there's so many guys. Is every one of
8:28
Speaker 1: those deals perfect? No? But is there their their payroll
8:33
Speaker 1: is not bloated. They have multiple stars on insanely cheap
8:37
Speaker 1: deal deals, including Acunya and Michael Harris and probably I
8:42
Speaker 1: mean probably most of those guys that I mentioned, Like
8:45
Speaker 1: it's just super cheap. Uh PCA has like we explained,
8:51
Speaker 1: the star upside, right, he has that upside. I don't
8:54
Speaker 1: think it's guaranteed, but I think from what we know
8:58
Speaker 1: about him and people that we talked to, he has
9:01
Speaker 1: the kind of work ethic that you kind of invest in. Right.
9:04
Speaker 1: My understanding of it all is, I mean I quoted him,
9:08
Speaker 1: he's interested, He'll listen. He loves it here, this is
9:11
Speaker 1: the place he wants to be. He's interested. My understanding
9:18
Speaker 1: is the front office will kick this idea around. It's
9:22
Speaker 1: something that they have to think about because they are
9:25
Speaker 1: They understand how the budget is structured, and these are
9:29
Speaker 1: the types of things they need to be proactive about.
9:31
Speaker 1: It's a different scenario than in fourteen or fifteen, right,
9:37
Speaker 1: and perhaps it would have been they made the right
9:39
Speaker 1: to say it almost worked out in their favor. Right,
9:41
Speaker 1: Like some of these things not getting extensions done. But
9:45
Speaker 1: there was also the World Series tax I think that
9:49
Speaker 1: they had to pay that they like a lot of
9:51
Speaker 1: those guys were like, I won a World Series with
9:53
Speaker 1: the Cubs that hasn't been done in over a century.
9:56
Speaker 1: Pay me type thing. And I'm not saying they shouldn't have,
9:59
Speaker 1: but like there was that like World Series tax almost
10:03
Speaker 1: that they had to consider when trying to extend these
10:05
Speaker 1: guys after sixteen. That's why you need to jump out
10:09
Speaker 1: of the jump ahead of this, and it's something that
10:12
Speaker 1: they'll consider. It's something that PCA will listen to, and
10:16
Speaker 1: then we'll see if there's anything more than that, if
10:20
Speaker 1: even numbers are exchanged. There were some comps I gathered
10:25
Speaker 1: the high end. And he's not here offensively, is Corbyn Carroll, right,
10:30
Speaker 1: and then Michael Harris. He's not there offensively with either
10:33
Speaker 1: of those guys. He hasn't put up numbers like those guys.
10:36
Speaker 1: I think Michael Harris in his rookie year, his first
10:38
Speaker 1: full season was four point eight more according to Fangrafts,
10:40
Speaker 1: that's a really good rookie season. Corbyn Carroll is like
10:43
Speaker 1: MVP caliber player when he's healthy. PCA isn't there yet
10:49
Speaker 1: he hasn't shown that. I'm not sure if he has
10:50
Speaker 1: that offensive upside. I like the one comp I got
10:53
Speaker 1: was Ezekiel Tovar, who is stud defensively signed last spring.
11:01
Speaker 1: I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head.
11:02
Speaker 1: They're all in the piece. I want to say. It
11:04
Speaker 1: was like seven sixty something sounds right, and and he
11:09
Speaker 1: he's a He won a gold Glove if I'm remembering
11:11
Speaker 1: correctly this year at shortstop ninety five way to run
11:15
Speaker 1: screat a plus just a little below average offensively. I
11:18
Speaker 1: think that would be like, that's a pretty good comp
11:21
Speaker 1: in my mind, Like that's the type of deal that
11:23
Speaker 1: makes sense. Probably a little more than that, because I
11:27
Speaker 1: think he has more offensive upside than Tovar. We'll see
11:31
Speaker 1: if that's enough to get it done. If that, if
11:34
Speaker 1: they want to offer that, what they you know, I
11:37
Speaker 1: have no clue what would be acceptable on either side.
11:42
Speaker 1: I just know that this is something that that they'd
11:45
Speaker 1: be open to, both sides would be open to. Let's
11:47
Speaker 1: see if they actually make any offers, or if any
11:49
Speaker 1: traction gets made. That that's that's the thing, right, Like
11:52
Speaker 1: we can talk about it all we want. Who knows,
11:54
Speaker 1: if anything happens beyond like oh, yeah, we're interested, and
11:56
Speaker 1: then you know they never really go anywhere. Yeah.
12:00
Speaker 2: I also think, you know, kind of a front office
12:03
Speaker 2: that's you know, kind of on the end of its
12:05
Speaker 2: contractual term on a team that has a lot of.
12:12
Speaker 3: Uncertainty.
12:14
Speaker 2: You know, I think you could make the case that
12:17
Speaker 2: I agree. I think PCA could be a star. It
12:20
Speaker 2: could be like an All Star of this year, who
12:22
Speaker 2: like leads this team in October. I also, like can't
12:26
Speaker 2: rule that the possibility that he gets sent back to
12:28
Speaker 2: Iowa at some point this year, Like, I you know,
12:32
Speaker 2: that's probably I think both of those scenarios are unlikely
12:36
Speaker 2: in terms of him like being a Corby and Carrol
12:38
Speaker 2: this year or him right getting stuck in Des Moines.
12:41
Speaker 2: But I can't rule either of those out, and so
12:48
Speaker 2: I have a hard time seeing that getting the fish
12:50
Speaker 2: and it's already what I mean, it's almost March madness, right,
12:51
Speaker 2: Like it's kind of like, I know, they kick these
12:54
Speaker 2: things around in spring training, like if we're talking about it,
12:57
Speaker 2: if fans are curious about it, you know, people in
12:59
Speaker 2: the front office are.
12:59
Speaker 3: Talking talking about it because like that's their their job.
13:04
Speaker 3: But I also kind of a segue here.
13:07
Speaker 2: I also really liked your Kevin Alcantara piece that came
13:10
Speaker 2: out I think the day before. Really interesting juxtaposition of,
13:14
Speaker 2: you know, two guys who are part of that uh
13:18
Speaker 2: same trade deadline cycle, Kevin being traded for Anthony Rizzo
13:27
Speaker 2: in the Hobby deal. And I think that deadline. We
13:32
Speaker 2: knew it was important at the time, right, like it
13:34
Speaker 2: was a seismic trade deadline. But the more we kind
13:37
Speaker 2: of pull back from it, the more you see it's
13:40
Speaker 2: like they need these two guys. They need to hit
13:43
Speaker 2: these two guys, and it's like, if not, you know,
13:47
Speaker 2: the wind can't just be not getting stuck with say
13:51
Speaker 2: Chris Bryant's contract with the Rockies on it, Like you
13:54
Speaker 2: need to like kind of need. I think it's yes,
14:00
Speaker 2: because we have to keep talking about the budget. I
14:03
Speaker 2: thought it was interesting that you kind of mentioned alkin
14:04
Speaker 2: Tera was like, maybe this guy replaces Kyle Tucker next year.
14:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's get to that. Let's take a quick break, Patrick,
14:12
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15:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't so, you know, is Kyle Tucker coming back
15:21
Speaker 1: or not? Is something we're going to be talking about
15:23
Speaker 1: during the season after the season ends. Once whether they
15:28
Speaker 1: make the playoffs, put through the playoffs, whatever, he's If
15:31
Speaker 1: they make the playoffs, obviously he's gonna be a big
15:33
Speaker 1: part of it, right So I who know, Like my
15:39
Speaker 1: gut tells me and everything that we've gathered tells me,
15:42
Speaker 1: it's a long shot that they that we know there's
15:45
Speaker 1: no extension coming, it's a long shot that they are
15:48
Speaker 1: able to re sign him because the market for him
15:50
Speaker 1: is going to be wild and they just haven't shown
15:55
Speaker 1: the ability to do that, and it doesn't seem like
15:57
Speaker 1: they're going to have the budget to do that. So
16:00
Speaker 1: that's that's where that stands. So it's part of the
16:05
Speaker 1: reason why Kevin o'contra is still here. I kind of
16:07
Speaker 1: went into the offseason thinking it's a crowded out field.
16:11
Speaker 1: He's so valuable as a center fielder, do you need
16:15
Speaker 1: to move this guy to maximize value. But as after
16:19
Speaker 1: they got Tucker and the more we've talked to people,
16:23
Speaker 1: I'm starting to think, like there's a reason they don't
16:25
Speaker 1: move him and they're not like aggressively looking to trade him,
16:28
Speaker 1: is because they kind of do see a need to
16:31
Speaker 1: keep Kevin old Countra around. Look at he's a really
16:36
Speaker 1: good player. He seems like a really talented player. I
16:39
Speaker 1: should say he's an incredible talent. We talk about confidence,
16:45
Speaker 1: he's got it and I like his attitude too. Like
16:48
Speaker 1: you put him and you put him in PCA together
16:51
Speaker 1: in the outfield, you got some real swagger, and you
16:55
Speaker 1: got good defense, and you got guys that with the
16:57
Speaker 1: tremendous upside to hit. He he hit this ball to
17:00
Speaker 1: the opposite field. I know it's spring training, but he
17:02
Speaker 1: hit this ball that he shouldn't have probably probably I think,
17:07
Speaker 1: how did the how did DK put it? Dustin Kelly,
17:10
Speaker 1: the hitting coach, said, like he's like basically, he said,
17:12
Speaker 1: he's like majority of the time I tell him not
17:14
Speaker 1: to swing at that pitch, but he swung at it.
17:16
Speaker 1: It was I think it was like I didn't I
17:18
Speaker 1: couldn't see the pitch. I didn't watch a replay, but
17:20
Speaker 1: I think it was in on his hands and he
17:22
Speaker 1: hit it like off the wall in right field. And
17:25
Speaker 1: this is a righty like he just he's so strong,
17:28
Speaker 1: and I think that's you know, if he's the If
17:32
Speaker 1: he's the starting right fielder to open twenty twenty six,
17:35
Speaker 1: fans are going to be disappointed. I'm sure right that
17:38
Speaker 1: they'll be disappointed that Kyle Tucker is not back, but
17:43
Speaker 1: I do think he has a chance to be a
17:45
Speaker 1: really good player. And you know, I liked what Counsel
17:49
Speaker 1: had to say about him. Someone asks, does he have
17:52
Speaker 1: to play every day? Yeah, it'd be good if he
17:55
Speaker 1: plays every day Triple A. He's going to need a
17:58
Speaker 1: stretch where he plays every day, but he there's also
18:00
Speaker 1: going to be stretches where he's up and he's helping
18:02
Speaker 1: this team, and he won't be playing every day when
18:04
Speaker 1: he's up unless there's an injury. Right, So there's not
18:07
Speaker 1: a path to every day playing time in twenty twenty five,
18:09
Speaker 1: but he's going to be up here at some point.
18:10
Speaker 1: He's going to be helping this team. But at Council's
18:13
Speaker 1: point was like, if he gets one hundred and fifty
18:15
Speaker 1: at bats total this season, that's a problem. But he's
18:19
Speaker 1: going to help this team, right, He's gonna play every
18:21
Speaker 1: day at Triple A, and then he's going to come
18:23
Speaker 1: up and he's probably going to be on that bus
18:25
Speaker 1: back and forth overall depending on need. I like him.
18:30
Speaker 1: I think he's talented. He's always been the guy that
18:32
Speaker 1: when you talk about the trades from the moment they
18:35
Speaker 1: made those trades. People told me, like you, if you're
18:40
Speaker 1: pointing to a star, if you're searching for a star
18:42
Speaker 1: in this system, that's the guy that has the chance,
18:45
Speaker 1: that's the guy. You know. Before the Kyle Tucker trade,
18:49
Speaker 1: I think Cam Smith was on that track, and now
18:51
Speaker 1: he's getting even more hype. But I think Alcntra not
18:56
Speaker 1: quite Cam Smith because he's he's just it has all
19:00
Speaker 1: come together, but he's young still, and it's starting to
19:02
Speaker 1: come together. Eighteen pounds I think of muscle or eighteen pounds.
19:06
Speaker 1: I don't know who knows if it's all muscle. Eighteen
19:08
Speaker 1: pounds is what he gained over the off season, and
19:12
Speaker 1: that's part of the reason it's starting to come together.
19:15
Speaker 1: He's a little stronger. You can control the swing a
19:18
Speaker 1: little bit more. These long, lean guys can struggle to
19:22
Speaker 1: really control their swings and it leads to swing and miss.
19:25
Speaker 1: But he's looked really good and he's ultra talented.
19:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love what the Jaguar that's his nickname. Yeah, yeah,
19:34
Speaker 2: like cool nickname. Like you said, some swagger. I think
19:40
Speaker 2: you got to like the trajectory of you know, we
19:44
Speaker 2: kind of saw this with with Jason Hayward some of.
19:47
Speaker 3: Those guys with like just long arms, long like long levers, Like.
19:50
Speaker 2: It can take a while to like get into that groove.
19:54
Speaker 1: You know.
19:54
Speaker 2: The Cubs also like internationally like haven't like had a
19:59
Speaker 2: ton of impact recently for whatever reason. I know these
20:03
Speaker 2: are kind of like very long term investments.
20:07
Speaker 3: But like if if you.
20:09
Speaker 2: Get him to Wrigley Field, if he gets whatever three
20:13
Speaker 2: hundred at bats at Iowa and some good major league exposure,
20:17
Speaker 2: and if you make the playoffs, and even if Tucker
20:21
Speaker 2: does go sign with the Yankees or whatever.
20:23
Speaker 3: I think I think you're okay with that.
20:25
Speaker 2: If if the Jaguar shows enough to be like a
20:28
Speaker 2: part of that mix, because the upside is that high.
20:34
Speaker 2: The Yankees were never gonna have enough time to like
20:36
Speaker 2: keep him on the forty man and kind of see
20:40
Speaker 2: it all the way through. And so yeah, if you
20:44
Speaker 2: have those two guys playing next to each other for
20:47
Speaker 2: multiple years, that's a be a pretty good outcome.
20:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it is a way to you know, spend
20:55
Speaker 1: in other areas. Right, We'll see what happens and how
20:59
Speaker 1: this all plays out, how much what the budget is
21:01
Speaker 1: going forward, who knows, and then what the CBA looks
21:04
Speaker 1: like after twenty twenty six. All that stuff is going to,
21:07
Speaker 1: you know, influence the way owners think and the way
21:11
Speaker 1: front offices act and how we have to kind of
21:13
Speaker 1: analyze things because it's kind of up in the air,
21:17
Speaker 1: which is part of the reason why we don't see
21:19
Speaker 1: a lot of contracts, especially with the Cubs going beyond
21:22
Speaker 1: twenty six right now. It's one of the bigger reasons,
21:26
Speaker 1: I think. Since we're on the theme of youngsters, there's
21:31
Speaker 1: Matt Shaw's back. He's healthy, all that concern He is
21:37
Speaker 1: healthy and making a push for the opening day roster.
21:40
Speaker 1: What have you seen out there in camp? I believe
21:42
Speaker 1: he played Sunday. Neither of us were there, but he is.
21:48
Speaker 1: He's playing in games now, and he's making plays at
21:51
Speaker 1: third base. I think he saw him make a play
21:52
Speaker 1: at third base.
21:53
Speaker 3: Perhaps. Yeah.
21:54
Speaker 2: I like the phrase making a push because I don't know.
21:58
Speaker 2: I kind of got back to Mesa and was just
22:02
Speaker 2: kind of, you know, absorbing and listening to some of
22:05
Speaker 2: this stuff, and I I had a hard time thing like, oh,
22:08
Speaker 2: the Cubs are going to force it with Matt Shaw
22:11
Speaker 2: and got a very swift responsive. No one is forcing anything.
22:16
Speaker 2: No one asks to make a decision right now. You know,
22:21
Speaker 2: he could show up later in the week and not
22:25
Speaker 2: feel as good, or something could happen to him or
22:27
Speaker 2: somewhere else.
22:27
Speaker 3: On the roster.
22:28
Speaker 2: Like you know, these things, these situations are fluid.
22:33
Speaker 3: I mean, we've followed this team for a long time.
22:37
Speaker 2: We know that the Cubs are generally kind of cautious
22:39
Speaker 2: and conservative with stuff like this. They're also very protective
22:44
Speaker 2: of forty man roster spots. Part of me, you know,
22:48
Speaker 2: kind of thinks that it would rather just kind.
22:51
Speaker 3: Of punt on this decision.
22:53
Speaker 2: But at the same time, he's a healthy player, he's
22:56
Speaker 2: their best prospect, he's the guy they want to be
22:58
Speaker 2: their third baseman this year. They're already down a gold
23:02
Speaker 2: glove second basement in Nico Corner.
23:05
Speaker 1: So like.
23:07
Speaker 3: Maybe their best twenty six won't necessarily.
23:10
Speaker 2: Be active that day because you'll have you know, guys
23:12
Speaker 2: on taxi squads like their decisions they don't have to
23:15
Speaker 2: make right then. But you know, Shaw is gonna make
23:20
Speaker 2: it hard on them. I mean, he's showed up in camp,
23:24
Speaker 2: you know, kind of on a mission. He had that
23:26
Speaker 2: setback very early in camp, and you know, it'll be
23:33
Speaker 2: fascinating to see what kind of wins out in the
23:36
Speaker 2: end here. Is it just that they're huge amount of
23:41
Speaker 2: confidence in Matt Shaw who he is and what he's
23:43
Speaker 2: going to become in the majors, or do they sort
23:45
Speaker 2: of kind of go into four corners and stall a
23:50
Speaker 2: little bit just to kind of preserve the roster, you know,
23:54
Speaker 2: I think I'm sure you experienced this too. Like on
23:57
Speaker 2: one hand, it said, oh, we love the player, you know, X,
23:59
Speaker 2: Y and Z, and then it's like, well, you know,
24:01
Speaker 2: it's only two games and we still got one hundred
24:03
Speaker 2: and sixty games to go. And like generally Council is
24:06
Speaker 2: pretty conservative in that regard that he does take the
24:08
Speaker 2: long especially for a manager, as you know, of like
24:11
Speaker 2: being willing to kind.
24:12
Speaker 3: Of, you know, maybe lose the battle to win the war.
24:15
Speaker 2: And we know how Jeed Hoyer's front office looks globally
24:20
Speaker 2: at the forty man and how they're obsessed with depth
24:22
Speaker 2: and paranoid about injuries with good reason. So I think
24:25
Speaker 2: that's probably the roster decision, right of, like that's gonna
24:31
Speaker 2: be the that's gonna be the headline, you know, when you're.
24:34
Speaker 1: Right, when right or as traveling, Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.
24:39
Speaker 1: I don't think there's much you know, it's gonna be
24:43
Speaker 1: obviously the bullpen, but as far as names go, like
24:46
Speaker 1: that's that's the decision. And then figure Star yeah, yeah,
24:49
Speaker 1: And the fifth starter thing is going to still be
24:52
Speaker 1: fluid in Japan because you're not using five starters, right,
24:55
Speaker 1: They're gonna kind of they're gonna use starters in a
24:58
Speaker 1: different way in Japan than they normally would. They're still
25:01
Speaker 1: going to be stretching them out and all these things.
25:03
Speaker 1: So Matt Shaw is the name to watch, and you know,
25:07
Speaker 1: and I think there's enough going on with the other
25:09
Speaker 1: third basement contenders that is making it even more interesting, right,
25:15
Speaker 1: Like I am, I don't I don't like to look
25:18
Speaker 1: at the numbers for spring training, but Gauge Workmen and
25:22
Speaker 1: Vidal Bruhan have done what they need to do to
25:26
Speaker 1: open eyes, right, you need to do something when you're
25:29
Speaker 1: on the fringes, right, you can't like Kyle Tucker. I
25:33
Speaker 1: don't know. I think he just got his first hit.
25:35
Speaker 1: I don't care. I don't care if he gets no
25:38
Speaker 1: more hits the rest of the spring. He's on the
25:40
Speaker 1: team and he's going to be a star as long
25:43
Speaker 1: as he's healthy. Vidal Bruhan, Gauge workmen. All these guys
25:48
Speaker 1: that are fighting for roster spots matters a little bit.
25:51
Speaker 1: You just want to see it, right, You just need
25:53
Speaker 1: to see it because they need to do something to
25:54
Speaker 1: have a chance. They can't go hitless otherwise they're not
25:57
Speaker 1: making the team. So it's interesting. And and Shaw has
26:03
Speaker 1: you know, now that he's healthy, he got a couple
26:07
Speaker 1: hits in there, so you know, it's all I think
26:09
Speaker 1: it's all going. It all matters in a sense, I
26:12
Speaker 1: guess is the bottom line, right, It's all It's all interesting. Yeah, yeah,
26:16
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll see, we'll see what the final decision is. Uh.
26:20
Speaker 1: Councils said similar stuff, you know, like we're not ruling
26:23
Speaker 1: anything out here. And and like he wanted to be
26:25
Speaker 1: super clear about that. I was kind of like pushing,
26:28
Speaker 1: like how many games does he need? Like is he
26:30
Speaker 1: going to have enough? Like this is a kid like
26:32
Speaker 1: that hasn't played a major league game yet, Like he's
26:35
Speaker 1: you can't treat this like if he and half was
26:37
Speaker 1: hurt right like which he was.
26:41
Speaker 3: Normal workload.
26:42
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and he's like that. He said, absolutely, it's
26:46
Speaker 1: a consideration and it's something that's on their mind, but
26:49
Speaker 1: it's not gonna He's like, he's still able to make
26:53
Speaker 1: this team for opening Day. So it doesn't sound like
26:55
Speaker 1: that's changed. Uh No, it hasn't, Okay, So yeah, yeah,
27:00
Speaker 1: I think it's the decision that we'll be keeping an
27:03
Speaker 1: eye on. There's plenty more there's we'll we'll discuss more
27:07
Speaker 1: stuff the edges of the roster and and uh we
27:11
Speaker 1: have a mailbag episode coming later this week, and I'm
27:13
Speaker 1: sure it's all about like a lot of roster questions
27:16
Speaker 1: will be in there. It is like, I do you know,
27:20
Speaker 1: ultimately it won't matter in some sense. I think we
27:22
Speaker 1: put we do it too. I'm not putting this on
27:25
Speaker 1: the fans. It's us too. We put so we focus
27:26
Speaker 1: so much on the opening day roster. And I think
27:28
Speaker 1: Council is so good about telling us, Like he's really
27:31
Speaker 1: good about like this roster will be different, Like he's
27:35
Speaker 1: very open about it. He's like, if I have the
27:37
Speaker 1: same bullpen you know in September, like that's probably not
27:40
Speaker 1: a good thing. You guys to step up. You need
27:43
Speaker 1: guys to emerge. Uh So, so the roster will look
27:47
Speaker 1: different come September, especially if they're making a playoff run.
27:51
Speaker 1: But you know, it's still fun to figure out and
27:53
Speaker 1: understand who's going to be a part of this team
27:56
Speaker 1: going forward. All right, Patrick Will, We'll be coming back
28:00
Speaker 1: with two more episodes this week. Thanks so much for everyone.
28:05
Speaker 1: Thanks so much to everyone for listening. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe,
28:08
Speaker 1: Subscribe to the YouTube channel, Subscribe to The Athletic, where
28:12
Speaker 1: Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs.
28:15
Speaker 1: Thanks so much,