Latest / Black Box Theory Podcast / BBT #19 | The Hidden Cost of High-Pressure Corporate Jobs

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BBT #19 | The Hidden Cost of High-Pressure Corporate Jobs · Black Box Theory Podcast

• Thomas: Hello everybody. Malcolm: Alright, this is what's going on, man. What's going on, man? We back. Episode nineteen. Another one, bro. Thomas: We here. We here. Episode nineteen. I'm gonna just go ahead and get it out of the way early. Disclaimer. The views expressed on this podcast are strictly our own and do not represent our employers or any affiliated organizations. You know the rest, we're not professionals in any area. Don't listen to us for tax advice. We're here to have conversations and let y'all know what's going on in the world. so take it with a grain of salt. And yeah, the decisions you make your own, take some responsibility for once. Yes, I'm talking to you. Malcolm: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I don't know, man. We we don't we don't we don't got no like we we have a couple of things that we that's just kinda like been been top of mind for us and I think that a lot of our listeners and people that are kind of going through the same phases of life right now, I think can can relate to a bit. so we really want to just kinda like pick up on a on a conversation we obviously there's been a ton of headlines, but it's like at a point like right, like we don't want this to be like a we don't want to have like the same repetitive news headlines 'cause i is it's getting to a point now where any no matter what websites you go on, CNN, CNBC, Fox, wherever, you're gonna see the same thing. It's gonna be something about Trump and Iran. It's gonna be something about the stock market. It's gonna be something like it it's the the the World Cup. Like it's it's the it's been it feels like it's been the same headlines of the past few weeks. So we wanna kinda like flip it back, make make this episode a bit more personal, a bit more intimate. yeah, it's like the big thing today, the the first first thing that we wanna kinda like just to jump off and start on was We're having this conversation, man. We want to talk about like some of the some of the pressures. And this doesn't only apply to our industry, which is big tech for first time listeners or people who may not be familiar with our backgrounds, but this is also all the other like high pressure, high kind of expectation industries, right? We're talking about consulting, we're talking about investment banking, we're talking about finance, we're talking about like our like these these very like high pressure, high expectation, like very kind of demanding corporate white collar jobs, right? And if we want to talk about like You know, a lot of times we see these super fancy titles, lucrative, you know, signing bonuses and and salaries. and it yeah, right. And and to a lot of people, right, to hungry college students, to people who are trying to make a name for themselves, get out into the world and and make a splash in corporate, like this is very enticing to them, right? This is very like this is very much like this is what I I work for, this is what I want, right? And so, Thomas: million dollar stock options. Malcolm: And and rightfully so. I'm not saying that's a that's a bad thing, but I think that now that, you know, like I said, both Thomas and myself have kind of been in the swing of things for almost a year now coming up. I think it makes a year for you next month and then a year for me in in August, right? So it's like like I said, by no means do we do we have twenty year ten years in in in our respective roles, but it's like you can you can learn a lot in a year. and so one of the biggest things that's kind of like been like a I think a recurring theme for us has just been like Obviously the difference between what's plastered online and and what actually goes on behind the scenes, I think, can can apply to a lot of things, but I want to talk about a lot just about like the some of the mental health implications of kind of like the expectations and kind of like just the kind of like grueling and I don't say grueling, but like some of the just the the high kind of like demand behind or expectations behind like some of the work that we do. and how that kind of like translates to like, you know, how you carry yourself and and how that kind of makes you, you know, how it makes I don't I don't want to disrespect like actual people who are doing like real, like physical labor who really have something to complain about. people who are like, you know, welding or like on o oil rigs or things like that or like kinda like doing manual labor, things like that. I'm by no means are these comparable. but I really do kinda just want to touch a bit on like the the the mental the mental health aspect and kinda like just like like like like what does that look like behind the scenes? Like what does that look like when you actually are working for one of the biggest companies in the world and it feels like, you know, stuff just keeps piling and piling and piling and piling on top of you. Like and it's like, you know, in your mind it's like, hey, I'm I'm getting paid X amount of money. I I need to keep performing. I need to keep succeeding with all these kind of like looming pressures of of things all in the background, right? There's all these these things about, you know, agentic AI, right? There's things about layoffs, there's things about like you know, your team being an underperformer in the company, right? So it's all these like, you know, re-reorg within the company, like it's all these kind of like floating things I think that go around in the back of our heads while trying to balance being, you know, a top performer, someone who still delivers impact, someone who still does a really good job at, you know, doing their job, right? So I think like All these things, like it's it's it's it's a lot it's it's it's a lot of different I think routes we can go down, but wanna wanna kinda get your perspective on on on what's what's that's been like for you and and and what you would share to someone who's who's considering, you know, trying trying to get into one of these spaces that that we're in right now. Thomas: Yeah. I if if I was someone trying to get into these spaces, I mean I talk to people who are actively coming in or still in school or looking to learn more. it's difficult because the mindset and the way that I look at things changes every few months because it feels like I hit one wall where I break through and I learn something or I have a new realization about this is how this works, but then things change and that has multiple factors into it, right? That has the agentic AI, that has the definition of what your role is. Like I'm a product manager. But you know, I work with designers, developers, and other product managers. And in reality, none of that's gonna matter, right? Like you follow the tea leaves. If you're a product manager, you're cooked. If you're a designer, you're cooked. If you're a developer, you're cooked. You wanna know why? Because they want builders, right? So that's what makes it harder for me to share with people is like they want a builder. What that what that means, I don't know, but I have to figure it out. I don't think anyone knows. So Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: You know, and if you don't do those things, like Malcolm said, the mental health aspect, you get gaslit into doing those things. Like for example, I'm working on something where it, you know, it it's been taking a long time. People weren't doing what they were supposed to do in, you know, the way that you know it needed to be done to help move things along. And that's okay, everyone's priority is not the same. But you know, me, I just said, Hey, you know what? I'm getting pressured by all these people. I'm getting told this is taking too long. but at the same time, they're telling me, hey, you know, you're getting screwed over your early in career, it wasn't like this when I started. But then they're also telling me, like, make sure you take your days off, you know, make sure you enjoy yourself. But then you're also getting told to do all these things. So it's like, you know what? Screw it. Like you're just getting gaslit into doing things. They say, it's okay, but then you kind of have to stick with it. So leveraging tools, I did someone else's job. And then I showed the proof in the pudding, which, like, in my opinion, in this day and age. It's not even about staying within your lane and following the rules. Obviously, don't do anything illegal, but it's about making progress. It's about making things happen because all of these jobs and rules that are so that people care so much about that have been in the industry for such a long time, they need to realize like stuff is changing. So when I did that, yeah, it lit a little bit of a fire. Some people were upset. And it's like, okay, I'm willing to work, but it's a shame that I have to then use AI to show you how your job can be replaced. Malcolm: Mm. Thomas: In a certain extent, just for you to care enough to do something. So for everyone who's trying to come in, this is just my perspective right now. It might change. If you're coming, depending on the space you're going into, you know, you just need to make sure that you're doing the absolute best you can to stay abreast of what's going on. And don't be so stuck your ways that you're limiting growth for yourself. And don't let other people slow you down either. If someone's slowing you down, make sure that it's something that they're really slowing down, like you, like you need to access or whatever the case. Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: If it's like a developer thing or design thing, if you have access to company AI, man, just try it out. Like just do it because I guarantee you those leaders would much rather see some progress being made than you saying, I'm waiting on such and such. but that's just kind of top of mind for me right now. I mean, we'll see how things go. I'm still learning learning a lot, definitely learning a lot. But my role, like I think my one year of experience is not reflected in what I've actually done. I'd argue I have more than that. And The scope of my role covers more than my job title, for sure. Malcolm: yeah, for sure. I think and I think that applies to lot of people. I think in these spaces. I think one thing like another kind of recurring theme I see is people, I think both of us kind of fall, you know, in this category, but people doing either a lot more than kind of like the main kind of like R and R's of of of their job title or of their that's actually indicative of the of their level. but they take on a lot more work, right? They they they expand the scope of their work. They expand the scope of the things that they they kind of contribute to for a couple things, right? It's either for people that are chasing promotions, people that can that are trying to show that they can take on more work, they can, they can, you know, they can do more regardless of their job title. There's people who are resource constrained. They may not have the people to support them. So they have no choice but to take on this new work. or it can just honestly be a mix of all those things, right? But it's like, you know, and I don't want people to hear this and and frame it as like, you know, you guys are ungrateful. It's people that would kill to be in your shoes right now. That's not the case, right? That that that's not the case. And I think that's a very, it's a very elementary view. Like 'cause I think like with that logic, you know, you should never complain about anything because there's always somebody that would want your spot, regardless of what. Now, granted, we you know, we have our thoughts and our reservations. Like, there's a ton of good that has come. I think a ton of like, you know, blessings as far as like, you know, socially, financially, professionally that have come with this new kind of career journey that both of us have kind of stepped into. But of course, like with any experience, right, you're going to have your good and your bad, right? And so it's like it's not so much that we're talking about the bad for the sake of don't do this, don't do that, but it's more so like the awareness of that, because we all see the good, right? We all you don't have to look far and wide to see the good of being at a big tech company, right? People have people have been saying that people people started going like that's how some would argue that computer science became as oversaturated as it is because people were so like it's just started flooding every social media feed, right? I'm a computer science major, I got You know, I started working at Netflix, at Meta, at Google, at Amazon, at at at you know, for for four hundred K, right? So people saw this, they're like, this is the move. This is where I need to be, right? But it's like, hey, we're in twenty twenty six now, right? So it's not it's not like for one, a computer science degree does not guarantee you a job at a fan company anymore. It doesn't guarantee you a job at NVIDIA, it doesn't guarantee you a job at Google, it it doesn't give you it doesn't guarantee you a job, period. Actually, there are so many like I think this is the the highest you know rate of unemployment for like new college graduates ever. Thomas: four hundred K Malcolm: coming out with like all these advanced technical degrees. and that's still that's that's to that's not to blame them and the work that they've put in, but that's that's just the state of the job market right now. Things are s become so have become so oversaturated that people that are in these spaces, like you should really be willing to listen to like what those experiences are like because you're not gonna get like these these kind of like, you know, first hand like like real kind of in depth I think explanations anywhere else. but no, like like to Thomas's point, I think, you know, I think we're we're we're in the same boat, two like To a degree, right? I think I'm I'm also kinda like in the same situation where it's like I think in my role I take on a lot more than I think my job title or my level implies. However, that's that's also because like that's also because I like, you know, like I can't fall all that on on on on some something else. Like to it, you I I am still like a a go getter and I do want to show my team that like, hey, I am capable of of doing this and delivering on this and and executing on this. But know, sometimes it's just like it comes down to just biting off more than you can chew, right? Like it's pause. Like it's it like it it can very well be like a one of those type of situations where it's like, all right, you see an opportunity and like you I I know people have heard this advice before when you're super young in your career. You wanna talk to old people, they're gonna be like, anytime someone offers you some extra work, say yes, say yes, take it on, take it on, take it on. And that is good and all, but you do have to I hope people understand that like it's it's a lot easier than it sounds, right? Because you're gonna say yes to all these things. You're gonna get looped into all these additional meetings, all these extra blocks in your calendar. Now you have so many more things that you're juggling, trying to deliver on, trying to provide status updates on and coordinate across a ton of different teams and a ton of different like, you know, stakeholders. It bec it it makes your day to day a lot more complex and it adds a lot more nuance that you have to consider that you weren't thinking about before. Thomas: Gotta manage expectations. Like like yeah, it's not saying no every time, it's just saying like I can, but I'll have to re prioritize. Malcolm: You do have to manage expeditions and I think mm-hmm. Exactly. And it's it's knowing like what like like how much bandwidth you have as an individual contributor and knowing how to like rebalance, like you said, like rebalance those priorities to make sure that you're still delivering on the things you said you were delivering on at the beginning of the year. Because one thing that you don't want to do is you don't want to get into these, you know, you don't want to get into these companies, into these areas and say, Hey, align with your manager on these expectations for let's say the fiscal year for the fiscal quarter or whatever. And let's say you're doing that. Then someone comes along with, hey. I need your help. You're a smart young person. You're a smart young young man, young lady. I need your help with this. Hey, I got you. You know what? Boom, boom, boom. You deliver you're delivering that. You're doing good work. Someone else grabs you. Hey, I need your help with this. Hey, I need your help with this. You're saying yes and yes and yes to everybody. You become so, you know, you become so busy with all these additional projects that you signed up on. You forgot what you what you aligned with your manager on with in the in the first place. And at the end the day, what you get, you know, this may not be the same at every company, but I know it at at at our company, right? You are evaluated based on what you've said and writ wrote wrote like put down in writing at the beginning of the year or at the beginning of the season of evaluation periods that you said you were going to deliver on. That's what's evaluated. It's not the new things that you picked up because nobody tells you to do that, right? Like, yeah, we get it, you're a go-getter. And so and sometimes you may actually have a really good manager who's super flexible and understands like your your situation and circumstance, and like, hey, you know what? I am going to reward you for taking on these new things. But it's a difference between taking on new projects and and new things. And completely neglecting your original priorities. That is where it becomes a problem, right? So it's like if you have the bandwidth and you have the flexibility and and the the coordination to be able to balance your original priorities plus these new things, hey, go after it. If anything, you're probably going to fast track your next promotion. You're probably going to fast track the next level that you go to, right? But when you start losing track of those things, that's when it becomes a problem. That's when it affects your performance. And that's when it makes you look bad for taking on new things. So it's not saying don't be a go getter. It's not saying don't be hungry. It's not saying don't take that next step. It's saying be smart, be intentional about how you take on new assignments, how you prioritize, and how well like it also depends on your your you and your bosses, your manager of relationship. How well is that going to bow with your boss? What are they going to think about it? Are they going to be on board with it? Like, you know, these are things that that I think that you have to consider that aren't, you know, always thoroughly explained because it's easier to say, say yes to everything than actually give the explanation I just gave for the last three minutes. Right. So that's just another one of those I think things that are just like kinda hidden behind doors in spaces like big tech or, you know, anywhere else. But go ahead. Thomas: No, I I was I was gonna add to that. Think about the value of what you're doing too, because you can knock out a bunch of stuff. I've been I've tried working on a bunch of things and be able to make some progress, but like be told that's low value. That doesn't mean anything. So like Michael said, you could fast track a promo or a bonus or whatever the case if there's budget. Let's not forget that. If there's budget, because a lot of places right now, you know, if your name, it's not if you're not artificial intelligence or if you're not top. Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. it's it's tight. Yeah, it it's tight, it's tight. It's tight. Thomas: Top top took up. Yeah, it's tight. Yeah. Yeah. If you get someone might get a bonus or someone might get a good reward, you might not get much. That's just unfortunately how the game is played. So you also have to think about the rewards of your work. you have to think about the impact because if you deliver on a bunch of things, I've literally seen a manager, they said they had they didn't give an employee a, you know, a promotion or something. I for I don't even know what company this was, but they said they didn't give them the promotion they wanted. Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thomas: And then that employee was like, Well, I grinded, I was putting in 60 hours a week. I was working weekends. I I delivered on all these things. And the manager straight up said, Well, I gave it to this other person because their work was more visible. We need someone to do the grunt work. And Malcolm: my god. That is another that's another that's a great point, bro. That is a great point. Thomas: It's like, bro, it's it's like they say like their their work is more visible and we need someone to do the grunt work and people are criticizing it, like, well, why do you have this person just doing all grunt work, you know, so that there's no justification for them. And also before before we continue with that, I just want to say back to your earlier point with like the privilege. It's not lost on us how blessed we are. It's not lost on us the spaces we're in. And please don't. Yeah, and it's like it's like Malcolm: no, no. Pl please do not misconstrue our words, bro. I beg. If you have listened this far. Yeah, please don't. Thomas: We it's hard to understand shoes that you're not in. And we want to hear everyone's opinion. So like please DM us you know, Instagram. We have an email, but Instagram is probably the best way for us to know that you're real and that you're actually human. So DM us, you know, we can talk and see what can happen from there. But like this is just these are the experiences we have. We obviously can't speak on being CEOs, we can't speak on being truck drivers. We don't, you know, so we're not comparing to those things. Also Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: Without going too far, people need to realize just because you're in a space of privilege doesn't mean that you are invalid in your thoughts. Like for example, if someone's in California and they make a million dollars a year, let's say it's a single person, a person making a million dollars a year, their spouse or partner doesn't work and they have kids, right? Someone who lives somewhere else where the cost of living is cheaper, they might say, million dollars, why is that person complaining? Why is that person complaining that and they make a million dollars a year? They I'm struggling, they don't need to complain. You might not understand, yes, they make a million dollars. California's taking a chunk of that. The government's taking a chunk of that. Malcolm: Yeah, yeah, thirty thirty thirty three percent of that. That's all that's already off, you know. Thomas: Off the top. So by the at the end of it, they might have what, let's say three, four hundred K to work with, and then the cost of living for and then if they have a spouse and kids and everything, it's not like people are rolling, yes, a million dollars is great, and there's people in California making it work for much less. However, people look at people in other situations and think that it's so much different. And it's it's really not like a million is a is an exaggeration, but I'm just saying, like depending on situations, unless you know someone's full circumstance. Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: You shouldn't assume that they're coming from a place of ignorance or arrogance with things. But entitled I mean, even though, yeah, they're on the West Coast or in places where it's a lot of money, there are a lot of entitled people. I was actually just talking with an Amazon employee about that the other day, like an Amazon return employee in the in the Whole Foods. She was like, Yeah, it's people are entitled. They come up to me talking about where's my return. One lady, she said one lady got mad because they scanned the wrong code and she was like, Well, you showed us the code. It's like it's not my fault. Malcolm: Or mm-hmm. Or entitlement, yeah. yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, no it's nuts, bro. Like it's Thomas: But but yeah, back to back to the thing. I know I kinda got off topic there, but with the grunt the grunt work versus the the shown work. Yeah, you you have you have some thoughts on or or no? Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Visibility yeah. Yeah, no, no. I was gonna say, like, that's a that's another good thing, man. That's like one thing I have noticed is that the people get rewarded. The people who get rewarded, it's not always who does the good work. It's who does the good work that gets noticed, right? Like, because I I know so many, there are there, and you will find this on any team that you're on, across any industry, right? No matter where you're at. There's gonna be someone who does really, really, really good work. like talking about like industry standard work, like like really good work. Super ambitious, really hard worker, always puts their bed foot foot forward. And there's going to be someone who who's on the project that that gets the attention from the VP, from the CVP, from the COO, from the partners, from the general managers, from the directors, right? From the principal level people. At the end of the day, people are going to reward you based on what they see. It's one thing for hearsay to to hear, hey, this guy's doing really good work. This per this young lady's doing really good work. They're doing good. They're doing good. He's doing this. I've seen it with my own eyes versus something that you can see. Because it at that point it becomes a a thing of like what's tangible and what's not, right? If I can see in front of my face as a VP, like, hey, put put these two guys up for motion, let's see, right? One guy has all these projects that have implications across the company, across different orgs, across different teams, across different partner, you know, partner teams, sister teams, whatever you want to call it. And it's it's it's it's it's hit hit hidden on all cylinders, right? Right? Like you y y you work with all these different software engineers, you work with these product people, you work with these product marketing people, you work with finance, you work with supply chain. You're you're like your work touches everyone versus someone who maybe on a more kind of like you know narrow, kind of like maybe single purposed project that still has, you know, is arguably just, you know, super impactful as well. But it's like what what whose whose work like goes further, reaches further, right? And goes goes further up that chain. That's something a lot of times what it comes down to, right? And it's like, you know, sometimes it may not always be the right decision, but it's the it's essentially a decision based off only the information that they have at hand, right? 'Cause like at the end of the day, like once again with circumstances, putting yourself in someone someone else's shoes. If if you're someone that's in charge of a promotion, in charge of, you know, putting someone on the next level, you want to see data. You want to see how how that impact has has become. You know, it's one thing, obviously, hey, if if I if I get two people and it's both of their managers telling me they did really good work, okay. All right. You guys are their managers, of course. Like, but show me something that that that kind of proves or kind of you know, if you're s the VP, you're you're the you're the person that's gonna like more than likely you'll go with the person that that Delivered really good impact. They execute it well, but their work just touched more teams and it made a larger impact for the business, right? Because at the end of day, it's what it comes down to. Like, how did you impact the business? How did you make us more money? How did you save us more money? Like, how did you make us more profitable? That's what it comes down to. And so it's like when evaluating that, that's a lot of the times what's coming down. So like make sure that that's like, you know, especially for early in career folks, a lot of the times it's easy to get caught up like Thomas said in that grunt work because it's like, hey, my manager gave me this. I'm gonna do this. I My teammate gave me this, I'm gonna do this. My, my, my dev gave me this, I'm gonna do this. My product manager gave me this, I'm gonna do this, right? At a certain point, to get to that next level, to get to where you're trying to get to, there has to be a certain there has to be a certain like level of initiative you're willing to take to go out and go go get it for yourself, right? To go out and go go grab that visibility, to go make those projects visible on your own, right? And it's it's not always like a a super streamlined. path to do that. It's not always like a a walk in the park to go do that. Sometimes you have to, you know, tussle and and and and get over some people to get to get your hands on a project that's like, hey, this is meaningful. This shows that I can expand the scope of my work. This shows I can get to the next level and execute, you know, on on that next level. Right. So, you know, all kind of always like that's another kind of thing that like, and that's why I say it's like it can get really stressful in these in these big tech spaces because it's just so many things that's always kind of like on our mind. Like it's so many things that we're always considering, like, is my work visible enough? Am I performing well? Does my manager think I'm doing good? Do my teammates think I'm doing good? Does my senior leadership think I'm doing good? What's my next deadline? Am I about to get laid off? Am I about to get replaced by AI? Am I using AI enough? Am I coding enough? Am I using agents enough? Right. It's so it's like it's like it's like like and sometimes some people may not think about it like this, some people but I know like for a lot of early and career folks and a lot of people who are even well well off in their career, it's hard, you know, it's it's it's easier said than done to just keep a straight face. Keep a smile on your face, go in, focus on what control what you can control. But at the end of the day, control what you can control is good. But at the end of the day, you know, when you do get that, if you were to, you know, God forbid, but if you do get that email about, hey, your role is no longer needed or has been terminated, at the end the day, it has real implications behind that. Is or or text I could it's I've seen some really like cold hearted examples of these lay of these layoff stuff, allegedly. But like, it's like, you know, these things have real implications, bro. It's real. Thomas: Or a text. Lucid sent out a text. Allegedly. Yeah. Malcolm: You know, it's family members involved, it's it's children, it's it's mortgage payments, it's it's college tuitions, it's car payments, it's all these things that are kind of tied to this source of income, to this source of kind of like, you know, providing and provisioning for a family or for for, you know, for for people that you care about. So it's like, yeah, you can control what you can control, but at the end of the day, you got people to feed. You got miles to feed, you got bills to pay, you got things to cover, bro. So it's like, you know, it's hard to not still think about this stuff to a degree. Yeah, like I say, I think that's just I think all those kind of like factors, you know, I think they just swirl around a lot. And I think as time kind of goes on, right, like people just become more and more and more People just become more and more like just just just just stressed out, man. Thomas: Yeah. Speaking speaking of stress, man, I I don't know, you you heard about this thing. This kind of all relates to it because not only can your job destroy your mind, soul, and body, but so can the food that we eat, which we all know is cooked. But I don't know if you heard about this thing. I was actually just looking it up again because I was trying to find what states banned it, but the lab grown meat, so lab-grown meat I think has recently been passed to be able to be sold and sourced. And eight states have now banned it temporarily blocked it, according to black millionaires underscore on Instagram. matter of fact, let me see if I can if I can share so that Malcolm: Yeah, it's my first time hearing about it, boss. Thomas: But you haven't heard about the lab grown meat or like like the states that banned it? Malcolm: I mean, I I've heard about it. I didn't know like the actual like what states of I haven't heard anything more than I I've heard about it. I guess I just haven't really read into it though. Thomas: let me see. Can you see it? Malcolm: Isn't this what doesn't Chick fil A do this now? Light with their meat? Thomas: Yeah, I think chickful in I don't know if it was lab grow it was something. They I think they stopped using non GMO or something like that. They changed their chicken. Malcolm: Wait, is is is is Maryland on here or Thomas: yeah, Maryland Maryland still allows it. You you eat in bioengineer lab that meat that grew in a peach tree dish. Malcolm: Though looks like Washington allows it as well. So I don't know what you it looks like you're also Alright, man. South. Why why is this? I mean like I mean I I lab grown meat sounds bad as is, but like what's the actual like health? Like have there been studies on like how that affects also cultivate cell cultured meat, growing animal cells in a controlled environment instead of raising and slaughtering. Thomas: Well ha ha I mean what the CEOs eat, brother man. I'm I'm shopping where they shop. They not eat I th I think the main issue with the lab grown meat is so for people listening, right, the eight states that have banned it or blocked it are Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Montana, Indiana, and Nebraska. let me see, is that one, two, one? Either way, and basically the issue here is for one, stuff grown in a lab, like it in theory, right? If it's clean protein, like if it's actually just like straight, Chemistry, so like it's everything your body needs and it has the right texture and everything. In theory, it might not be bad for you, but it's it's this takes process to a whole nother level. This is like process from the beginning. And I think the thing is when you eat an animal, it's the way that it lived affects the meat. That's why you have different cows and like free-range stuff. Like, and and I've heard of people like who visited other countries or have family in other countries. They say, The chicken fresh off their uncle's yard or whatever tastes better than any chicken you would get from the store. So like the way the animal lived impacts the quality of the the protein. But when it's grown in a lab, like I don't I don't I don't are you looking up to see like the actual like health facts behind it? Because I'm I'm gonna say for me, it's just like, bro, like I I just wanna eat like natural food, like food from the earth. And this is from a a lab. You can know what I mean. Malcolm: Yes. Yes. Okay. So I'm seeing Thomas: You c you wanna show what you if you found something. Malcolm: I know I know. Mi minor technical difficulty. but yeah, no, we we we we looking into some of the the the the pros and cons of I guess cell based meat. yeah, okay. So I guess we can go through potential potential benefits. cell based meat include the reduced need for animal farming, slaughtering, improved animal welfare, and possibly fewer foodborne pathogens. safety assessments are essential, but as contamination risk still exist. I'm trying to see what the actual like, okay. So they're cultivated in in sterile facilities. They eliminate the risk of, like I said, of foodborne pathogens like E. coli, and they reduce the need for antibiotics. they require a lot less land and water compared to traditional cattle farming. and then scientists can I don't know how if I like this or not, but they can theoretically tweak the fat and nutritional profiles of the meat to make it healthier. Don't know, don't, don't know how I feel about that. Like, but cons, I guess, high cost production is super expensive. requires specialized equipment and expensive growth media. a little bit of environmental uncertainty here. So while land well, you know, while while land use drops, the process is it's incredibly energy intensive. So the over overall climate benefit, it really depends on the powering facilities, powering the facilities with renewable energy. And then consumer acceptance, right? So texture and taste fine tuning are still ongoing. Some consumers have reservations about the artificial nature of the food. And then last thing is regulatory pushback, which I think is kind of like allude to the postage you just had, but cultivated meat has faced outright bans in certain regions, including a few US states and also Italy, due to lobbying from traditional farming sectors. So I don't know. I I I I think I I I would also need a list of what restaurants or like grocery stores have been selling artificial meat for me to understand, like, have I been like Thomas: Consuming it already. Malcolm: have ha have I consuming this, right? Like like have I been 'cause I I I mean I don't know. I mean having gone to Chick fil A. I I mean I usually get like grilled chicken from Chick fil A and stuff. And like I don't know. I don't know if that's also artificial but I couldn't tell you, bro. Thomas: People eating I don't know. I feel like some stuff like what what was it? I'm not c was it the pink slime nuggets or whatever and like people be eating mystery meat for a while. Like I see stuff in posts, people talking about you eating donkey ankles. Like it's just lab grump. I don't I think it's more of a preference thing, bro, but I I feel like Malcolm: Yeah, that's insane. Yeah, I mean I guess I get both sides. You know, people don't want to keep seeing animals get killed, but I mean it's just lucky the cycle of life, brother. I don't know. Thomas: But like okay. Let's say if you if you're against animals being slaughtered, right? Are you then okay with animals being cloned but just for like for the meat only? Like Malcolm: Yeah, I'm about to say it's like it's it's it's low key like lesser of two evils, bruh. Like Thomas: That's all I I mean I and and look I get it, I get it, I get it. I've talked to people who are vegans. I've talked to like people who have kids that are like, you shouldn't kill animals so they become vegans and all that. I get it. I just think that you should do things you should give the animal a good life. Like that's I personally believe I feel like the animal should live a good life and it should be eaten. Like I think that's the ultimate respect to it. Like some animals obviously, like obviously I wouldn't say that for a person. Or for a dog or, you know, a cat or anything like that. Like some animals are just meant to like live long because they're useful and they're like good to have around and they're they're nice. Other animals, like chickens, they they grow quickly. They I mean they they do things and they help. Cows can be useful for like if you know you have a farm and things, but it's like you have to eat something. Like something has to be eaten and Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: Yes, it doesn't need to be protein. I understand it. You don't have to eat animals. But I don't know. I don't know. I I think humane that's why kinda I've no I don't know if I've ever had halal food, but I think with halal food Malcolm: Yeah, I I think it's like it's the way that they're I don't wanna be ignorant, I think it's the way that they're killed or slaughtered, it's like in a humane way. Thomas: Yeah, it's like much better, the way that they like you you don't eat animals that were living in certain conditions, I think, and killed a certain way. Yeah, pork nine. Hey, keep don't kill pigs, man. Keep those alive. I don't want those. I don't know what pigs do other than create manure, but Malcolm: Yeah, that's why I don't eat like pork. Yeah. Yeah, bro. Yeah. Nah. I mean, yeah, nah. I think I I have tried it before. Like I get a couple like I've tried a lot of food before. It's just I mean it's very good. I mean I I'd be lying if I say I could tell a difference with like the the meat, but it's still very good to me. so you know, yeah. Mm-hmm. Thomas: Lol and kosher too. I think I saw a video about kosher food and like they don't eat certain things or like kill animals certain ways, depending on like how strict you follow. But like I think those are like good things that cause like I've seen videos of like bad slaughterhouses, and for some reason I've been seeing these like chicken processing videos that pop up, and like I know you have to kill a chicken, you have to cut his head off. I know you have to do it, but like bro, these people doing it with scissors. And I'm like, if I'm that. Malcolm: Yeah. Yes, I'm all right. Thomas: I can't imagine being hung upside down having my neck pulled and then somebody just snipping with scissors. I feel like a cleaver or something, just a one shot, like just get it over with. Malcolm: Yeah, it's nuts, bro. Like Yeah, that's nuts. Come on, man. Thomas: Yeah. Yeah man. Other other than the food, s it's a lot going on. It's a lot going on. I I haven't really been keeping up with let's talk about some brain rot for a second, with with Love Island. But for all I know there's a lot of people who are super interested, have a thick piece, but I've been seeing like Something about arguments and people going back and forth. Somebody's a boxer and the what's her name was in Tuvie movies. Malcolm: MT. Yeah, I I I don't know, bro. I gotta lie. I'm I'm still on episode twelve, bro. I haven't watched in like a week or two. so I'm super behind. But I'll just be like what following the discourse on Twitter. And to me, it's like I don't know, bro. I feel like bro, like these producers, bro, they know what they're doing, bro. Like they don't even care about these people finding love. They are all for like the discourse, the arguments, the division of community and culture on an online spaces, all for the sake of amping up their ratings and how many people watch their show nightly. Like Thomas: Excellent. Malcolm: It is very sick, but when you think about it, I mean that's pretty much how every reality T V show is is you know, structured and I you know, it's it's definitely unfortunate to see like it at the expense of, you know, one of these people's feelings, you know, their their real feelings about another person and kinda like, you know, being the the the butt end of a joke. But I don't know, man. I think it's I mean it's my first time watching it. It's a very I mean, it's a it's an interesting show. It can be a little much for me at times personally. But I mean, yeah, I mean people people follow it like it like it's for it's religio like a religion though, man. Like I don't know, bro. I I I hope that people are also kind of like, you know, like disinvested when it's time to vote and stuff. But yeah, that's that's kind of where I I don't know, bro. Cause it's it's low key, like it's crazy, like people I haven't even seen nobody talk about this, bro, but there's been like a bunch of like I know there's like a a bunch of like Supreme Court Thomas: Yeah. Malcolm: decisions that happened this past week. And it's like it's so crazy because like, bro, like, it's like nobody's even like talking about it because it's all just been Love Island, bro. So like quickly, I'll just say like, so as of June 20th, this happened a couple days ago, the Supreme Court has handed down major rulings focusing on immigration, gun rights, and corporate liability. they've allowed the termination of TPS for Haitian and Syrian nationals, restricting asylum seeker entry. Strengthening gun rights on private property and then limiting liability for the Roundup weed killer manufacturer. it's a whole bunch of stuff. So the first one, the court allowed the Trump administration to end temporary protected status for Haitians and Syrians and ruled that asylum seekers cannot be considered as having arrived while still in Mexico. another one, a gun rights law struck down Hawaii, struck down a Hawaii law restricting carrying firearms on private property. Strengthening the ability to carry on property open to the public. and then also, international law limited the scope of the alien tort statute, restricting lawsuits in US courts for international law violations, bro. I don't know why, bro, but every it's like every time I hear about the Supreme Court, it sounds like somebody's rights are being stripped away. Some minority, some marginalized communities' rights are being like like like stripped away, bro. And it's kind of It's kinda nasty, man. Like, it's kinda nasty, bro. So it's like that so what this means, like this happened on third last Thursday morning. So this means around 350,000 Haitians and several thousand Syrians in the US on temporary protected status, they can immediately find themselves targeted by immigration and customs enforcement, which is ICE, unfortunately, for those that may not know the the acronym, are can be deported, right? So this is just like it's like they look for any reason. Mind you, these people that have been living in the country for years, you know, want to protect the status now, can be legally, you know. sniffed out by ice and and and arrested or deported or or worse. I really hope people vote, man. I really do. Thomas: A as as long as we have war, Love Island, movies, GTA six, a li life is good for these people, man. They don't care. As long as as long as they have those things, it don't matter if the Fed's knocking at the door, it don't matter if you can't afford food. It don't matter if people are getting brutalized right outside your front door. As long as they have those things, hey, may maybe throw in some some some shrooms or something to to to really make them just less culpable. They feel good, man. They they're vibing. That's all satire by the way for people. But yeah, no, that's jacked up, man. I think there there's an issue with like mental elitism or like elitism in America. Like there's a lot of people that say, they were here illegally. It doesn't matter how long this is the law, they should be gone. But it's like, bro, you you are also immigrant. Like every single person in this country Is an immigrant. I've even heard people say the natives were immigrants. And it's like, okay, well, if we're going back that far to call them immigrants, because sure, yeah, I'm sure North America at some point didn't have people. At some point in history if people came here, then everyone's an immigrant. And the law shouldn't be that be that that strict. I mean, sure, if you want to say people coming in, like I I know they were doing something about birthright citizenship with which in I guess like I'd spoke to someone, I the understanding was that it has to do with like being born here and not like going far back. I originally thought that it was they were gonna try to go back and retroactively fix that so they basically they could say black people were not US citizens. But the thing is apparently this is all alleged, by the way. Apparently there's some what Chinese people do, this is what the person told me. They told me that this I don't know, I haven't looked into it. They there's like Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: Chinese people do is they'll come to America, have kids, and go back to China, like literally just as a way to have US citizens and whatever, and that they're doing it intentionally, not like they were here on vacation and had a baby. So the government was trying to stop that. Granted, like I said, this is what someone said, I'm not saying I believe this, I'm not saying that it's facts, but hypothetically, if it was a case where people are intentionally coming here just to give birth and then leaving, should that person have citizenship? Probably not. If that's if that's how we're gonna enforce the law, if we're gonna change it, it should be moving forward and it should be like certain circumstances. if we're gonna change the law in general. Because I I do think that is a little like okay, I I can see why people be upset about that. It's still to me is not that big of a deal. I think we have much bigger things to focus on than, you know, someone being born here, have a citizenship. It's not but if they're gonna they are gonna make a change, I can see that. But I think a lot of it is just like Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: People think like, I I came here, I did it the hard way, I did it blah blah blah, acting like it was any more easy for other people. But I don't know, man. I just think it's a lot of self hatred. Malcolm: Yeah. Nowadays, and and for context for everyone, so temporary protective status with TPS, it allows individuals from countries experiencing war or environmental disaster to live and work legally in the United States. So once again, these are people who have are experiencing war or environmental disaster in their home country that are legally authorized to work and live in the United States. And that has just been stripped away for three hundred and fifty thousand Haitians and several thousand Syrians. in the United States, right? And so we need to understand there are over one point three million immigrants who rely on CPS from 17 other countries. Mind you, this this Supreme Court ruling got, you know, pushed through with a six three vote. Understand this all they're going to do is keep on trying to target the next and the next and the next and the next and the next. It's like way it looks like to me, it's like they're trying to just purify the country. And you can take purify however you want, but it looks like folks are just trying to purify the country. And just turn it into like a you know, like I don't know. I just feel like the the the entire kind of like mantra of the land of the free has just been completely eradicated with this new administration. and like once again, I'll keep saying this in every episode we have until it gets to that point. But I just really pray that the same energy and the same think pieces that people have around Love Island and what Casey and I are doing, you have this for the midterms, brother. you have the queue going out and you are voting. Granted, not saying you can't watch the enjoy your Love Island, bro. Enjoy it. Watch every episode. Stay right up when Peacock drops it. Just please, you know, vote when it's time to vote, man. That's all I Thomas: And you know, these people better pray that America's never in a situation where they need TPS in another country. they and but I mean, hey man, before jumping off the topic, we live in a country where people somebody can be on the White House lawn, call the former first lady a man, and no one says a word. So just the times we're in, man. That's the you can't tell me that's nothing other than hatred, bro. Malcolm: A man a man, like what are we doing, bro? Thomas: And no one no one said anything about it to like no matter what you believe in, no matter your thoughts on racism, for a man in the White House to call or on the White House lawn to call a former first lady a man in front of the world, in front of the sitting president of the United States. And no one says a word. Like even if you're a racist, like you have to understand that sounds crazy. Like the only people who justify something like this is like Malcolm: Come on, bro. You just you just hate five people. Thomas: Yeah, like that that's got like that I I don't even know. Like I I feel like even the most racist of racist people, like if someone calls someone, like remove remove the context of who it is. You just hear first lady called a man, like something in you has to just think, like, that's not okay. Like it wasn't a a joke that he said with the boys. This was on the White House lawn. Malcolm: Yeah. One thing I noticed that a lot of people in his cabinet and his representatives, bro, they'll they'll always tell you, No, no, no, that's not what Trump meant. What he actually meant was, or they'll like take what he said. Like I remember one time it was like yeah, no, no, no. I'm saying I'm saying I'm thinking like as another example, like when he said when him Trump had an interview when he's on the on the lawn by getting a helicopter, he's Yeah, I don't care about Americans' financial situation. I don't care about the situation. And then JD Vance came in, he's like, Well, no, well, yeah, well Thomas: But Trump Trump didn't say it. I just wanna clarify. Clarify. Yeah, okay. Malcolm: Well well he didn't actually mean it like that, right? Like his words are often misconstrued. Like, bro, it's like they will take a di I'm talking about a verbatim direct quote directly from our president and then they'll say what he meant or how he actually meant for it to be intended, or who it was actually intended for. I'm like, right. If you have to do all this wordsmithing and all this redirection of of you know of what the his statement actually meant, mm mm may may may maybe just maybe there there's a bit of, you know, you know fabrication going on, you know, al along along that that that that delivery. But yeah, man. I'm tired of it, bro. yeah no. Midterms coming soon, chat. Hope everybody locked in. I'm locked in. I voted and I sent in my Maryland. I I low key was trolling. I got my Maryland voting Maryland ballot like three minutes before the poll closed. I was trolling, bro. But it it was in on the in the counter, so respect. Thomas: Amen. yeah. Get out and vote. Get out and vote. We got things to do. and then the new Democratic Party, man. There's a lot of changes going on in there. People talking about Ma Dani or Ma Dani. I don't know. I did I heard a take recently that said he's the front runner front runner to run for president in the future. But I I don't think people understand he can't run for president. fortunately. He's ineligible. Malcolm: Yeah. Thomas: But there is a lot of changes in the in the government system. So everyone just stay stay locked in, stay voting, vote for, you know, use that, share your voice. and yeah, yeah, change comes. I'm a Bulls fan, and change comes after a while. Fired the whole front off, fired everybody. Change comes. It might take forever, but change comes. You know, sometimes you get a Caleb Wilson, and sometimes you get a Patrick Williams. Malcolm: Yeah man, I'm I'm excited about this draft class. This whole draft class been talking crazy too, bro, like Thomas: What what AJ said? He said I don't need a workout. Malcolm: He don't need work out. Darren Peterson wasn't working out for nobody. He thought he was going number one. Yaxel on the on the Warriors said, Yeah, bro. Like, I'm basically going to start immediately because this team is sorry right now. I seen LeBarn, LeBaron on on those sixters. He was like, Yeah, first dude whose ankles aren't breaking the singoon. Like, I'm like, they've talking, they've talking spicy, bro. So I'm messing But yeah, no, it's gonna be an exciting season. We are unfortunately in that great period where there is no sports on. Actually, the World Cup has been fire. I'm about to say, let me rephrase it before they before they jump in. The World Cup has actually been fire. Thomas: These dudes crazy. For this is no sports. Malcolm: I I just don't typically follow I I really only kinda like what's happening with with with with football or soccer, I should say. you know, during the during World Cup time. I'm not gonna lie. The best like players in the world have been playing like at peep like Mbappe has been killing, Messi's been killing, like Ronaldo been singing it up, but it's like Holland has been like I ain't gonna lie, every like top like dog has been playing like a top dog. So I've been I've been enjoying it. it's like it's a different level of competition, I think, like just like Thomas: Mm-hmm. Malcolm: hunger when you playing for your country on your back, bro. So I'm gonna be excited. Definitely watch this round of 32. yeah, we'll we'll be tapped in. I personally, I got I lucky thing is about I got I got France winning it all, bro. They got too many dogs on that team. But we're gonna see, bro. We can revisit this in a couple weeks, but Thomas: Yeah, yeah. I haven't seen I mean, shout out to the nine African teams that made it to the knockout rounds. Nine out of ten. Cape Verde, shout out. I think I'm saying it right. I think it Cape Cape Verde. K Verde People know what I'm talking about. They had the smallest nation by population and they're the smallest team to make it. So good for that or smallest nation by population to make it. I haven't really been watching much. I mean I've seen the fans, like I've seen a lot of people are traveling. Malcolm: Yeah, nine out of ten, bro. That's insane. Thomas: to the US for that, which I mean, hey, that's crazy that they got the money for that, bro. I mean, I know like the US, depending on where you're coming from, it's cheaper. Like if you're coming from the UK, the US is cheap. Well, cheaper. Like their money's worth more. But it's still like those flights, bro. And then you get here, especially the ones in Seattle, bro. I mean, stuff is tax. But Malcolm: Mm-hmm. yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm. It's crazy 'cause I I know that Iran it's so stupid 'cause bro, I think after every single game they have to fly back to Mexico because they they're not they aren't allowed to stay in the country. And it's like I get we have beef for the country But it's just like Thomas: Okay. Malcolm: I mean, you're gonna take it out on I mean y I I think like I think I saw sat like we were the first country we we hosted a World Cup team and bombed their country. they had a game and then we bombed their country in the same day, which is insane to read. Yeah. Thomas: Ridiculous. It's like, hey, hospitality while we blow up your home. Malcolm: Yeah, bro. It's Yeah, yeah. Iran they played a pivotal World Cup match hours after the country got bombed by the US. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Thomas: What what happened to like I could have sworn events like this were supposed to be like peaceful like I'm not saying that all the violence stops, but I thought like, you know, in these times when it is like international competition, like Olympics and things that it's almost like a peace treaty for a little bit. But I guess the powers that be never sleep. Malcolm: Yeah, brother. Thomas: It's it's unfortunate, man. People people at home in some of these countries can't even watch can't even they don't they don't have power lines to even watch the games if they wanted to, bro. It's insane. Malcolm: Nice man, That's where we am, bro. That's all I got today, bro. Thomas: yeah, yeah. a lot, a lot going on. Everyone stay aware. I mean, I gotta ask you what you I saw bro, obsession had had was was great, but they fantastic. And I've been watching guy Skits since then. He's been putting out stuff for some years. I think he started YouTube years ago. Malcolm: Mm. I saw you got contracted for something else too. Thomas: Bro, he's I think he's taking over Texas Chainsaw Massacre, I think it was, is what they put him on for. so that that'll be dope if that's true. I have to check. but man, it's a lot going on. We got Spider Man coming out. Malcolm: Mm, that's fire. That's fire. I gonna lie, J J J July is gonna be a month for movies, a month for film. I'm ready. Thomas: I'm ready. There's a lot of move Evil Dead in my like I I like those joint those movies. Spider Man. What else is coming out in July? Isn't Od not Odyssey. Is it the Odyssey? Is that coming out in July or is that later? I think that's the fall. Malcolm: think it mm let me see. Yeah, I think it's not coming out till like November or something. But I do notice it should be some more Okay. Maybe I no, actually Odyssey does come out July seventeenth. Thomas: July seventh. Yeah, Odyssey. I'm I'm not I'm not a big fan of like them type of movies, but like that movie is really intriguing. I might have to go see it. Malcolm: Yeah, the Odyssey's gonna come out July seventeenth. Minions and monsters, Spider Man. Thomas: One of the toy stories out right now. Is Malcolm: I gotta go see that. I thought yeah, I gotta go see that in the Switch Ring a while. Yeah. We we we we we we got things to watch. Thomas: I haven't seen the fourth one. It's a lot going on. We got sp Avengers at the end of the year. I'm I'm hyped for that, man. hey, and if the if these GPU prices go down, I I would get a P seven so I could play at you know, Wolverine, but 1500, $1,500 to $2,000 for a PlayStation is crazy. Y'all got it. that's another thing. Lastly, lastly. GTA 6. You people, right? You people, for one, need to stop paying resale for a game that you can buy for retail. There's no shortage. Two, you people need to stop expecting to pay $100. I saw people who were almost upset that the game. Malcolm: Yeah. Yeah. Thomas: did not start at a hundred dollars, even though it essentially does if you want the full game, you need to stop just being eager to rip your wallet open and and willing to pay so much for I don't care if it's the most anticipated game ever. Have some respect. Have some self respect. Don't just say, I thought you were gonna charge me more and then want them to charge you more and not stop doing that. It's it's not gonna go down. Just like these playing ticket prices, they're only gonna get more expensive. They're not gonna go back down. Respect yourself and respect your kids. Thank you. Malcolm: Man, amen. Y'all stay blessed. Scary times out there. We're gonna persevere, man. Appreciate everybody to listen. Thomas: Thanks, man. Peace out. Malcolm: Peace, boss.