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Ep. 36 - Is Halloween The Christian Passover? · Martyr's Row

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  This week on Martyrs Row! Does Disney's Coco
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  explain Halloween? Is Halloween a pagan holiday,
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  or is it the Christian Passover? If Ohio were
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  a fruit, why is it an apple? Christian superstition!
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  Day of the Dead! All Saints Day! All Souls Day!
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  All Hallows Eve! All Hallow Tide! Which one is
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  it? Let's find out! On Martyrs Row! 3, 2, 1!
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  Saint Denis. Saint Denis, first bishop of Paris,
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  was sent from Rome to preach the Gospel among
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  the Gauls. With his companions, Rusticus and
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  Eleutherius, he turned many from the worship
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  of idols, wherefore the governor inflamed with
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  fury, caused them to be beaten with rods and
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  cast into prison. When neither pain nor threatenings
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  could silence their confession of Christ, they
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  were led to the hill of Montmartre and there
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  beheaded. Yet, as the story is faithfully kept
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  among the ancients, Dennis, rising from the place
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  of his execution, took up his head in his hands
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  and walked a great space, ceasing not to give
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  blessing and exhortation until he fell at last.
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  where a church was afterward raised in his honor.
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  Thus ended this holy bishop, whose steadfast
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  faith outshone the darkness of his time, and
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  whose death witnessed that even when the body
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  is divided, the spirit yet walketh with God.
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  Anno Domini, 250. Have you ever heard of Pliny
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  the Younger? Pliny the Younger, tell me. There's
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  like a soundtrack underneath my sub. Pliny the
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  Younger's not creepy. So I heard about this the
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  other day and I thought it really interesting
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  and also like in line with the theme of martyrs.
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  But it also is one of the earliest examples that
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  we have written by pagans, non -Christians. giving
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  a detailed layout of what Christian practices
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  looked like at this time. Oh, interesting. So
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  Pliny the Younger, he was a leader within the
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  Roman government and he was up in the Northern
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  Asia Minor. Oh, okay. Which is kind of interesting.
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  That's very interesting. So like Northern modern
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  day Turkey. Yeah. But higher than Mesopotamia.
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  Mesopotamia. But yeah, so he's up there, right?
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  And he has this issue, and so he writes to Trajan,
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  who is the Roman emperor at the time. So he basically,
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  basically this regional leader writes to the
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  emperor, his boss, and basically says, hey, did
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  I deal with this situation okay? Interesting.
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  And so in the letter, he writes out what the
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  situation was. Oh, wow. And how he dealt with
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  it, which is pretty cool. That's so fascinating.
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  Yeah. And the letter is written in 112 AD. Wow.
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  OK. So we're talking about arguably within 20
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  years of when Revelation's written. Yeah. It's
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  within a decent time span of when a lot of the
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  New Testament is solidified. So this is like
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  early church. Early church. Yeah, within the
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  first century of the church. That's incredible.
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  Yeah, a century is 100 years, right? Mm -hmm.
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  Okay. Okay. So I'll jump through this, but I
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  want to read some of the letters. So this is
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  Pliny the Younger, his letter to Emperor Trajan
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  in AD 112. And he... And then I'll read you a
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  little bit of Trajan's response, because we actually
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  have that, which is pretty cool. So it says,
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  Pliny the Younger, it is my practice, my Lord,
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  to refer to you in all matters concerning which
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  I am in doubt, for who can better guide my hesitation
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  or inform my ignorance. I have never been present
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  at any trials of Christians. I therefore do not
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  know what offenses are usually punished or investigated
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  or to what extent, and I have not been a little
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  uncertain whether there should be any distinction
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  on account of age or whether the weak are to
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  be treated differently from the robust, whether
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  pardon is to be granted to the penitent, or if
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  one who has once been a Christian gains nothing
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  by renouncing it. whether the mere name of Christian,
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  even without crimes or only the crimes associated
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  with the name, are to be punished. Meanwhile,
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  in the case of those who were denounced to me
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  as Christians, I have observed the following
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  procedure." So he basically is like, hey Trajan,
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  I haven't really dealt with Christians much in
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  this regard, in the sense that I haven't been
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  around when they have been accused and sentenced.
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  It's also interesting that it's even just associated
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  with it. What do you do with that? And he's considering,
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  hey, what if the person is kind of a weak, frail
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  person? I'm not really sure how we should deal
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  with those individuals. And if they are stronger,
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  should we do something different if they are
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  a Christian? It's interesting, because a lot
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  of the martyrings we've done, some of them emphasize
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  the person's frailty. It does. And it's like,
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  oh, they were treated just as badly. For sure.
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  But this guy's like, I don't know. Yeah, he's
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  like, I'm not sure exactly. And you can kind
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  of see that human empathy where he's like, should
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  we care for them a little bit more? Yeah, well,
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  because we do know that if you were a Roman citizen
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  that they were treated differently. Yes. And
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  we even had a martyr reading where it mentions.
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  that one of the guys is like, hey, Roman citizens
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  should not be killed like this. And then the
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  Roman leader turns to them and goes, you sound
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  like one of them. And he goes, yeah, I am. And
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  he goes, yeah, I am. And then that guy's also
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  killed. Yeah, that was Ptolemus and Lucius, I
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  think. It was, yeah. Which, that was really interesting.
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  So now he basically says, so... Here's what I
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  did in this situation. Let me explain the situation.
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  So here's the situation that Pliny is dealing
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  with. He says, I interrogated these as to whether
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  they were Christians. Those who confessed, I
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  interrogated a second and a third time, threatening
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  them with punishment. Those who persisted, I
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  ordered executed. For I had no doubt that whatever
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  the nature of their creed stubbornness and inflexibility
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  inflexible obstinacy Surely deserve to be punished.
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  So what he's saying is The ones that I interrogated
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  I did it twice and then three times Yeah, and
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  I decided to just kill them because I realized
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  that they were stubborn in their belief And they
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  weren't after interrogation. They weren't gonna
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  turn away from what they believed. Yeah so I
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  decided that that deserved death. Which is pretty
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  cool, speaking to the Christians, you know? That's
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  true. So then he goes, there were others possessed
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  of the same folly, but because they were Roman
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  citizens, I signed an order for them to be sent
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  to Rome. We get that example with Paul. Yes.
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  Right? Yeah. So this is actually around that
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  time. Wow. So you get this example where... Which
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  makes sense because they're like, we don't know
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  what to do with them and the Roman citizens,
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  so let's send them to Rome. But even the ones
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  that weren't, it sounds like they were like,
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  hey, we wanna give you a couple of chances to
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  be alive and join us. But if you don't join us,
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  then we're gonna have to kill you. So it's almost
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  like they were pleading with them, hey, denounce
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  God. And they're like, we aren't gonna do that.
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  And they're like, please? Can you please do that?
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  Yeah, it seems like they were pretty reasonable.
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  And I think that kinda shows to even just rulership.
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  I mean, with how big Rome... the Roman Empire
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  was, it's like, well, they're not gonna rule
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  everything with an iron fist like that. So it's
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  like, there's gotta be some, I don't know where
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  I'm going with this, but it's like, yeah, when
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  you think of a ruler and a judge, it's like,
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  well, they're gonna try to be lenient, because
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  they know they're people for the most part. And
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  they wanna try to maintain order. Yes, and they
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  wanted to have a civilization, they wanted to
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  have a civilized society. People to grow into,
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  yeah. Right, they wanted to flourish. And if
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  they start killing off all their people, Right,
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  exactly. And there were certain rights that they
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  were given as Roman citizens. Because really,
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  Rome is what the West is built off of. So he
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  keeps going and he says, soon the accusations
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  spread as usually happens because of the proceedings
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  going on and several incidents occurred. in an
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  anonymous document was published containing the
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  names of many persons those who denied that they
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  were or had been Christians when they invoked
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  the gods in words dictated by me offered prayer
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  with incense and wine to your image he sang to
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  the image of the emperor which i had ordered
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  to be brought for this purpose together with
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  statues of the gods and moreover cursed christ
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  None of which, it is said, those who are really
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  Christians can be forced to do. These, I thought,
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  should be discharged." So he explains that he
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  basically pulls together, based on an anonymous
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  list that he got, that these people on this list
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  were seen to be Christians. So he goes and confronts
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  them, and the way he does it is he says, are
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  you or are you not Christians? And he goes, okay,
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  then worship the gods before you, and worship
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  the emperor, Trajan, as God. And they did so,
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  and so he discharged them. He's like, they're
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  not Christian. Yeah, exactly. So it's this definition
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  which is really interesting. That's fascinating.
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  And then he goes on to say, others named by the
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  informer declared that they were Christians,
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  but then denied it, asserting that they had been
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  but. that they had been, but had ceased to be,
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  some three years before, others many years, some
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  even 20 years ago, all worshiped your image in
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  the statutes of the gods and cursed Christ. So
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  then you get another description of people who
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  said they did used to be Christians, but they
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  no longer are, and they did the same thing that
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  the ones who, never claimed to be Christian did,
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  which is worship the gods. So he's making them
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  worship before him. To kind of test where their
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  loyalty is. Yes. And then this is pretty interesting.
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  So it says, they affirmed, however, that the
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  sum and substance of their fault or error had
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  been that they were accustomed to meet. on a
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  fixed day before dawn, and sing responsively
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  a hymn to Christ as to a God, and to bind themselves
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  by oath not to some crime, but not to commit
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  fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their
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  trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called
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  upon to do so. When this was over, it was their
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  custom to depart and to assemble again to partake
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  of food. But ordinary and innocent food. So he's
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  basically saying this is what their gatherings
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  look like. And he explains basically the gathering
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  of the saints to sing the songs. And he says
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  that some of these people had continued to do
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  that even though they didn't believe anymore.
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  Which is interesting because this gives us a
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  description that those who followed Christ were
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  actively meeting before dawn and they were singing
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  a hymn to Christ as to a god, that's how he says
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  it. And then binding themselves together by an
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  oath, and then not to do some crime, and then
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  not to, and then it goes into basically the Ten
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  Commandments. We shouldn't do these things. And
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  then when it was over, they assembled together
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  to partake in food, ordinary food. So he's describing
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  communion. Like they didn't sacrifice it. it's
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  ordinary food they're just yeah so this is an
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  early description of gathering of the saints
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  but the ones that he just talked about before
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  yeah we're still partaking in that even though
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  they didn't believe any longer that's fascinating
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  yeah i feel like this is like a real time uh
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  description of christians in 112 ad who that
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  we see today not just that but also that jesus
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  talked about in like parable of the sower, like
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  different soils and different things like that.
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  It's like, yeah, it's interesting. So. I think
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  it's funny because it's such a humanizing thing
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  as well. For sure. Which I love like going, when
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  you go through history, you feel like you realize
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  how human these people are. Yeah. Or it's like
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  we look at today's like, oh, there's a lot of
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  people in church that aren't actually Christians.
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  Like apparently there were in the beginning too.
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  Yeah, they were still going, but he even says
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  some even 20 years ago. Yeah. had stopped believing
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  but are still attending. It's crazy. Yeah, it
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  is nuts. And so he goes on to say, even this
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  they affirmed they had ceased to do after my
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  edict by which in accordance with your instructions,
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  I had forbidden political associations. So he
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  basically says, OK, now stop going to the gatherings.
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  Yeah, if you don't believe stop going don't do
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  it. Yeah. Yeah, so accordingly I judged it all
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  the more necessary to find out what the truth
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  was by torturing two female slaves who were called
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  Deaconessus But I discovered nothing else but
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  depraved excessive superstition Hmm, so he calls
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  their faith depraved and excessive superstition.
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  It's interesting it is because he believes his
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  faith is the true faith. Which is interesting.
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  He goes on, I therefore postpone the investigation
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  and hasten to consult you. For the matter seemed
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  to me to warrant consulting you, especially because
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  of the number involved. For many persons of every
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  age, every rank, and also of both sexes are and
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  will be endangered. For the contagion of this
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  superstition has spread not only to the cities,
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  but also to the villages and farms. What does
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  that mean? The church is growing. Yeah. The church
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  is growing. So what should I do? Because they
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  all believe in this superstition. Yeah. Even
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  after I tortured them. Crazy. Nevertheless, it
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  seems possible to check and cure it. It is certainly
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  quite clear that the temples, which had been
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  almost deserted, have begun to be frequented
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  again, that the established religious sites rights
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  long neglected are being resumed. and that from
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  everywhere sacrificial animals are coming for
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  which until recently very few purchasers could
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  be found. Hence it is easy to imagine what a
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  multitude of people can be reformed if an opportunity
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  for repentance is afforded. Now he goes into
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  this separate part which is almost like all of
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  a sudden Jewish temples are starting to sacrifice
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  again. Which is, that's a whole separate thing.
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  It is. So that's the end of that. So this is
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  a short reply from Trajan. He says, you have
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  followed the proper course, my dear secundus,
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  in examining the cases of those who had been
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  denounced to you as Christians, for it is not
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  possible to lay down any general rule to serve
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  as a fixed standard. They are not to be sought
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  out. If they are brought before you and the charge
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  is proved, they are to be punished. But with
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  this reservation, that whoever denies that he
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  is a Christian and really proves it, that is
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  by worshipping our gods, even though he was under
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  suspicion in the past, shall obtain pardon through
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  repentance. But anonymous accusations ought to
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  have no place in any persecution, for this is
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  a This is both a dangerous kind of precedent
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  and out of keeping with the spirit of our age.
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  The language is super interesting. That's so
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  interesting. Isn't that crazy though? Wow. So
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  he basically says like, like we need to do this
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  orderly and we need to take it case by case.
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  Yeah. So in some ways it's almost like we need
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  to allow people to do what they're going to do
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  as long as it, as long as they are not Worshipping
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  other gods. Yeah, or denouncing at least our
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  gods including myself Trajan Yeah, which is pretty
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  crazy which honestly makes sense to because it's
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  like well They want loyalty and allegiance to
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  themselves. Yes, and so if these superstitions
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  Yeah, continue it might lead to uprising. Yeah,
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  so they're like we got a nip all that Yeah, yeah,
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  but it is interesting to think to that because
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  he mentions that I I don't know what that looked
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  like where it seemed like there were some sacrifices
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  in Jewish temples that were starting to pick
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  back up in 112 AD. It's interesting. It is interesting.
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  Because then you get this, and that makes sense
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  because Jerusalem is destroyed, the temple is
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  destroyed in 70 AD. So you're talking about 40
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  years later, they're starting to try to fill
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  these temples back up, or synagogues around the
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  area. and do that, but it's cool to get this
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  description of Christians where he's like, yeah,
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  so here's what their gatherings look like. And
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  it's a clear description of what we thought their
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  gatherings looked like. And then there are some
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  that go that don't believe. There are some that
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  go that we torture them and they still believe.
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  And it seems like there are many more of these
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  people growing and things happening. What should
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  we do? And the emperor basically says, well,
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  don't seek them out. But if they show up, then
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  kill them. Yeah, we'll deal with it case by case.
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  Which, as we start to look at the different martyrs,
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  and you start to see different emperors start
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  to kill off large groups of Christians, if that
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  is how the Roman government was conducted, it
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  meant that the number was getting so large that
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  it became invasive. It couldn't be a case by
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  case. which is pretty interesting. I was like,
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  hey, here's this big group, get them all out
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  here. Yeah, kind of crazy, right? That's pretty
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  crazy. It's pretty cool to have that type of
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  account from Roman government officials in 112
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  AD. Because it's such an insight into that time.
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  Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah, I like
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  it. Three, two, one. I was reading late one night
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  by a candle's glow When courage stirred from
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  tales of long ago The saints arose through fire
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  and flame And all hollows tied still speaks their
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  name They walked the road They walked the martyr's
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  road Through flames and fire Their faith always
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  would show They walked the road They walk the
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  martyr's row The light of Christ still makes
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  them glow From Rome's dark pit to England's shore
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  They would not bend to kings or even war Their
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  prayers still rise where the faithful kneel For
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  the love of Christ they sealed the deal They
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  walk the road They walked the martyr's road With
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  flames and fire Their faith, oh, it would show
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  They walked the road They walked the martyr's
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  road The light of Christ still makes them grow
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  Now candles gleam where their names are told
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  The blood of saints is the seed of gold From
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  Stephen's cross to polycar's flame the gospel
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  spread by faith proclaim they walked the martyr's
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  road in flames and fire their faith though it
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  would show they walked the road they walked the
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  martyr's road the light of Christ still makes
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  them glow they walked the road they walked the
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  martyr's road through flames and fire The harvest
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  is done. The fields lie empty. Stocks brittle
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  in the wind. The year is dying. The sun sinks
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  early and the nights grow long. On this night,
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  they say, the veil thins. The lines between the
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  living and the dead dissolves, and the unbound
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  walk freely once more. It is the night of Samhain,
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  the hinge of the year. Men and women huddle close
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  to their fires, hoping the light will hold back
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  what waits beyond. Masks are donned. not for
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  play, but for protection. If the spirits come
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  looking for a soul to take, perhaps they'll mistake
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  you for one of their own. At the village edge,
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  food and drink are left in silence, offerings
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  to wandering souls, bargains with what cannot
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  be tamed. Bonfires roar against the dark, smoke
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  rising like a prayer. From those who know, they
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  have no power to bind the unseen. This was the
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  world before the cross cast its shadow, before
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  the saints sang their triumph, a world still
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  haunted by fear of the night. But then came a
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  new kind of fire, not the bonfires of fear, but
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  the light of remembrance. The church entered
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  this shadowed night, not to erase it, but to
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  redeem it. They called it All Hallows' Eve, the
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  night before the feast of all saints, a night
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  when the faithful gathered not to flee from spirits,
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  but to proclaim victory over them. The unbound
• 24:09
  were no longer to be feared. Death itself had
• 24:13
  been bound, the veil still thin. was no longer
• 24:18
  a threat, it was a promise. For those who sleep
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  in Christ are not lost, but waiting in the light
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  beyond the dark. And so Halloween became the
• 24:36
  shadow before dawn, a memory of when the world
• 24:40
  trembled in the dark, and a reminder that the
• 24:43
  light has come, and it cannot be unbound. Christmas
• 24:47
  would later celebrate the full victory, the birth
• 24:50
  of a light who binds the strong man forever.
• 24:55
  But tonight, we remember the night before the
• 24:58
  triumph. The night when the dark still roamed
• 25:02
  free. This is Halloween. The night before the
• 25:07
  victory. Let's try that again. Three, two, one.
• 25:19
  Oh, that's better. So much, I can see now. It
• 25:22
  was feeling a little dark and spooky. I feel
• 25:23
  a little spooky scary. It can be fun sometimes,
• 25:26
  you know? Yeah. I don't know about you, but I
• 25:28
  sleep with all the lights off. I am a child of
• 25:33
  the lights. So you're always in the light? Yeah.
• 25:37
  Changing those light bulbs? I haven't slept in
• 25:38
  years. Yeah, I guess there is no sleep in heaven,
• 25:43
  right? Oh wait, is that a different episode?
• 25:45
  Different episode. Oops. Whoopsies. Little tease.
• 25:49
  Well, speaking of Christian things. Yeah. Is
• 25:56
  Halloween one of those? Halloween. Halloween.
• 25:59
  Halloween. October. Halloweeny. Halloween. This
• 26:03
  is Halloween. What show is that? Chow we need
• 26:08
  I think it's um like boss, baby. I don't know
• 26:11
  I have young oh, maybe it is yeah I actually
• 26:14
  one of my friends his favorite movie was boss,
• 26:16
  baby. That's weird. Yeah, we just got that yeah
• 26:21
  Friend I hope you're watching I've seen that
• 26:26
  movie way too many times yeah, but yeah, so Halloween
• 26:30
  yeah in October. We're kind of here. Oh, yeah,
• 26:34
  it's like probably tomorrow or today or honestly
• 26:38
  it doesn't matter because you may be watching
• 26:39
  this like next July. In which case Halloween
• 26:43
  happened. And don't turn off the episode because
• 26:47
  yeah or maybe save it till October if you're
• 26:50
  coming to this then yeah because I think we can
• 26:54
  talk about what we're going to talk about whenever
• 26:55
  we want to talk about it. It's kind of a little
• 26:59
  evergreen. Yeah. But we've actually been talking
• 27:03
  a lot about like feasts and holidays and we've
• 27:07
  been kind of talking through a bunch of different
• 27:10
  things when it comes to like what the Israelites
• 27:14
  believed and practiced and then what Christians
• 27:16
  believe and practice and kind of hit a lot of
• 27:19
  that stuff. So like I think maybe in keeping
• 27:24
  with that idea, I think the question I want to
• 27:27
  ask you is Paul is Is Halloween a Christian Passover?
• 27:38
  Like many of my questions. Layers. Layers. Like
• 27:43
  many of a martyr row, a martyr row. Many a martyr
• 27:46
  row. Many a martyr row question. And many a martyr
• 27:49
  row. Has many layers. Because thus we live in
• 27:53
  the ecosphere. Yeah, you know, I hope that people
• 27:56
  appreciate these questions as much as we do they
• 27:58
  don't But this isn't really for them it's for
• 28:03
  us and it's funny is like part of my hope is
• 28:05
  like after they hear the episode They're like,
• 28:07
  oh that is an interesting question. Yeah by the
• 28:10
  end of it Yeah, or they get to the end of it
• 28:13
  and go. Oh, that was the question, huh? I forgot
• 28:17
  we did too So welcome, but Halloween Halloween
• 28:24
  What a weird time. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird when
• 28:30
  like seasons and holidays and as everyone is
• 28:35
  celebrating things. Yeah. It like feels a certain
• 28:39
  way. Yes. Because we honestly like this to me
• 28:43
  at least marks like the beginning of the holiday
• 28:45
  season. Yeah for sure. Because after this like
• 28:48
  every month there's a holiday. Yeah absolutely.
• 28:50
  Yeah. Yeah and it's weird how like even though
• 28:53
  we live in central Florida, you haven't lived
• 28:56
  your whole life in central Florida like I have.
• 28:59
  But it is weird how there is this thing, even
• 29:02
  in central Florida, where you can feel a season
• 29:04
  change. And you're like, well, it's still 85
• 29:08
  degrees in the middle of the day. But it feels
• 29:10
  different. But it feels different. And it's like,
• 29:13
  what is that? Yeah, something in the atmosphere
• 29:15
  changes. Yeah. And it's like a visceral thing.
• 29:18
  It's kind of, I mean, It's not much different
• 29:22
  than the space between you and someone else.
• 29:26
  Yeah. Yeah. In the idea that like relationship,
• 29:29
  body language, but also like the communication
• 29:32
  between souls or spirits. Like who you really
• 29:35
  are communicating to who the other person really
• 29:38
  is. Yeah. Some of that is active and always happening.
• 29:43
  Yeah. And we may not acknowledge it very much.
• 29:46
  And that kind of happens with seasons as well.
• 29:50
  Yeah, it's interesting. I was actually talking
• 29:52
  to some of my northern friends that used to live
• 29:56
  down in Florida. And it's interesting because
• 30:00
  that's one of the things we've talked about where
• 30:02
  the difference between, just personality -wise,
• 30:05
  it's like, yeah, there is something that's different
• 30:07
  between the north where it's like, okay, here
• 30:09
  we are, especially where I was in the snow belt,
• 30:12
  where it just gets tremendously more snow than
• 30:14
  most places. I like that, snow belt. Yeah, it's
• 30:16
  kind of cool. We're now in the Bible belt. Yeah,
• 30:18
  we are. Weird. Not a season. Let me strap on
• 30:25
  that KGV. KGV. King George version? KJV. Whoops.
• 30:39
  Whoops. I like the King George version. It sounded
• 30:40
  right in my head. It's more modern. King George.
• 30:44
  Different King. Same idea. Or you could go King
• 30:47
  Gregory. Oh, I like that. Hey! Actually, I think
• 30:52
  he's the one that kind of set up Halloween on
• 30:56
  the 31st, wasn't he? Are we jumping the shark?
• 30:58
  Maybe, but he wasn't king. He was a pope. Oh,
• 31:03
  you're right. Pope Gregory. Yeah. So it'd be
• 31:05
  like PGV? P -G -V? P -G -V? Pope Gregory version?
• 31:13
  That would be an interesting version. That would
• 31:14
  be interesting. It was. Yeah, do you know about
• 31:19
  that? Not a ton. Okay, so so yeah, so he would
• 31:22
  have established like the the final November
• 31:27
  1st. Gregorian calendar. Yes. Yes. So like the
• 31:30
  the final like November 1st landing of All Hallows.
• 31:36
  What is it? Eve. Yeah. No, All Hallows Eve would
• 31:38
  be. All Saints Day. All Saints Day. Yeah. So
• 31:41
  he would have established November 1 as All Saints
• 31:43
  Day. Yeah. From I think 8th century. That sounds
• 31:47
  right. From that point forward. Yeah. So like
• 31:49
  modern day, like where we get that from. And
• 31:52
  he did it in a dedication, like in a dedication
• 31:57
  that coincided with St. Peter's Basilica. That
• 32:01
  makes sense. So it was like something around
• 32:04
  that. Yeah. And I think with alms and things
• 32:06
  like that. Yeah. Actually that would be a fun
• 32:09
  episode to do specifically about calendars. Yeah,
• 32:13
  you talked about that. It's been something I've
• 32:14
  been kind of interested in for a little while.
• 32:16
  Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. I mean, we've been
• 32:19
  talking about stars a little bit, too, so...
• 32:21
  Honestly, that aligns. Probably... He's so dumb.
• 32:29
  You got yourself on that one. But yeah, so Pope
• 32:38
  Gregory, 8th century, I believe. established
• 32:42
  that, All Saints Day, November 1st. Which has
• 32:46
  no biblical grounding. Spoiler alert. Yeah, as
• 32:50
  far as the Bible itself goes. But I think what's
• 32:54
  interesting though, because, oh yeah, so what
• 32:56
  I was saying about the north with south, it's
• 32:58
  interesting because the weather's a lot nicer
• 33:01
  here. Okay. And as far as like, you don't have
• 33:06
  blistering negative 15 degree days. I get that.
• 33:09
  Yeah. And so it's interesting, we've said in
• 33:11
  the North, at least in Ohio, it's the North,
• 33:14
  but I'll speak specifically for me in Ohio. It's
• 33:17
  the mid. The mid. Ohio's so mid. It's mid. It
• 33:21
  is literally, though. It's mid, yeah. Where it's
• 33:26
  like, oh, it's interesting because the seasons
• 33:28
  are so stark in their differences. You can go
• 33:32
  there and be like, it's definitely fall, it's
• 33:34
  definitely summer. They're very market. If Ohio
• 33:39
  were a fruit, what fruit would it be? I was gonna
• 33:43
  say potato, but that's a vegetable. And I realize
• 33:50
  most people would be like, Idaho. Yeah, but like
• 33:52
  Ohio feels like a potato. It feels like a potato.
• 33:56
  Corn's not a fruit either. That's more like Indiana
• 33:58
  when I think of corn. Okay. What fruit is Ohio?
• 34:02
  Cause that's the difference, right? Like an apple?
• 34:04
  Oh, interesting. I think more Washington. Oh,
• 34:07
  really? Yeah. Okay. Because Florida is an orange.
• 34:12
  Yeah. That's kind of obvious. It's an orange.
• 34:14
  But I get that. So like a deep red apple? I think
• 34:17
  so. Okay. Yeah, that's kind of where my mind
• 34:19
  goes. What about like a weird shaped grape? Like
• 34:21
  an ambrosia apple. A weird shaped grape? That
• 34:27
  would actually work too. Oh, is that just an
• 34:28
  apple? A lot of grape vineyards and a lot of
• 34:32
  apple orchards in Ohio. Grape vineyard I wouldn't
• 34:35
  have expected. Yeah. but Apple Orchard makes
• 34:38
  sense. Yeah, there's a lot of those. Okay, so
• 34:40
  like a deep red apple. Yeah. Okay, or are they
• 34:43
  not deep red? They can be. Oh, they can be. Oh,
• 34:48
  trust me. Okay, I get that. It is interesting
• 34:53
  because I felt it the most there where it's like
• 34:56
  you come from the summer where everything's lively
• 34:58
  and green and bright. Sure. And then you go into
• 35:01
  the fall where everything just turns this orange,
• 35:03
  yellow. in black. Yeah, it dies. And then you
• 35:07
  get to the winter where it's like, you can't
• 35:09
  tell the ground from the sky. Everything is just
• 35:11
  the same color. Yeah. Which is like, it's weird
• 35:13
  to describe that, but it's like, no, like literally
• 35:16
  the sky is gray and the ground is gray. Yeah.
• 35:19
  Or it's all white. It's like, it's kind of interesting.
• 35:22
  All the leaves are brown. That's a good song.
• 35:24
  And the sky is gray. Is that Carpenter's? I think
• 35:28
  so. That's tough. But yeah. That's a good song
• 35:32
  though. It is a great song. But it's interesting
• 35:35
  because it's like, it kind of, you feel everything
• 35:38
  dying. Yeah, but you actually see it too. Yeah,
• 35:42
  you see it. Because I feel like we feel it in
• 35:44
  Florida. Yes. But it's almost like we feel that
• 35:47
  everywhere else is dying. But it's interesting
• 35:53
  because then even in the winter, it's like, even
• 35:55
  to this day, it's like there are times when,
• 35:59
  especially if you're kind of in the middle of
• 36:00
  nowhere, it's like, oh, I could die out here.
• 36:03
  Oh. That's weird. Which is kind of a weird feeling.
• 36:06
  Yeah. I mean there's been times for myself where
• 36:08
  like I you know run into a ditch accidentally
• 36:10
  and it's just like hmm okay well I'm stuck out
• 36:13
  here my car doesn't work. Yeah. And if no one
• 36:15
  comes I'm gonna freeze to death out here. Yeah
• 36:17
  I guess that is a completely different situation
• 36:19
  because you're looking around at desolation.
• 36:22
  Yeah. So there's like there's nothing alive.
• 36:26
  Right. But in Florida if you get yourself in
• 36:29
  that situation it's more like I could be eaten
• 36:31
  by something. Yeah, like an alligator could just
• 36:33
  grab me. Yeah, or like if you're in the Everglades
• 36:36
  not very far, there's like yeah rampant pythons.
• 36:40
  Yes Yeah, it's like you could just get swallowed
• 36:42
  by a massive snake. It's like, okay Which one's
• 36:48
  scarier It's true. Honestly, probably Ohio. It
• 36:52
  might be. Because at least there's something
• 36:54
  there to interact with in Florida. You're like,
• 36:57
  oh, hey. Hey, Python, don't eat me. Glad you
• 36:59
  got to eat. He's full tonight. Yeah. At least
• 37:02
  there's activity. That's true. There's life.
• 37:06
  Yeah. But yeah, so it's interesting, because
• 37:07
  we've talked about that, where it's like, oh,
• 37:10
  like I, to a lesser degree, I can kind of feel
• 37:14
  what people before monitor amenities felt. where
• 37:18
  it's like, oh, there is danger in winter. And
• 37:21
  it's like, there's a lot of danger. So there's
• 37:23
  all these, especially around the harvest, the
• 37:25
  end of the harvest, there's these festivals where
• 37:27
  it's like, all right, we're gonna hunker down
• 37:28
  and hope we survive tonight. Yeah, that's scary.
• 37:33
  And so that's when we come to our favorite fall
• 37:35
  festival. All Hallows Eve. All Hallows Eve. So
• 37:42
  it's interesting, so I like to, especially around
• 37:45
  festivals, and like holidays. You know me, I
• 37:49
  like to ask my question like, why are we doing
• 37:51
  this? Where'd this come from? It's like, where'd
• 37:54
  this come from? How'd we get here? Yeah, and
• 37:57
  it's funny because it's like, at least growing
• 38:00
  up, it's like, oh no, you just celebrate Christmas.
• 38:02
  And it's like, why? Well, it's like, oh, because
• 38:05
  of Jesus. It's like, okay, but why? Yeah, yeah.
• 38:08
  And it's like, and then you celebrate Thanksgiving.
• 38:10
  Well, why do we celebrate Thanksgiving? Yeah,
• 38:12
  true. It's like, oh, now we have Halloween. Why
• 38:14
  do we celebrate that? Yeah, and are these all
• 38:16
  consistent and linked together somehow? Yeah,
• 38:18
  like, where do these come from? Right. And it
• 38:21
  was interesting for me, it was like, everyone
• 38:23
  celebrates different holidays. True. Across different
• 38:25
  countries and different nations. Yeah, and you
• 38:28
  have a wide spectrum of people who like really
• 38:30
  just don't care. Yeah. To like people who like
• 38:34
  really get after it. Yes. And their beliefs can
• 38:38
  range on the same type of spectrum. Yes. Like
• 38:41
  you could have this cross section where somebody
• 38:43
  is like super into every holiday and they actually
• 38:48
  have really, really maybe conservative Christian
• 38:51
  beliefs that aren't consistent with being that
• 38:54
  into those holidays. Yeah, that's true. All the
• 38:57
  way to like someone who's really into the holidays
• 38:59
  who doesn't believe there's a God at all. or
• 39:02
  anything spiritual, and it's just tangibly what
• 39:04
  we have. And then you have the whole other spectrum
• 39:07
  where people are like, I don't really care about
• 39:09
  that, it's all Hallmark. It's Hallmark, and what
• 39:15
  are those stores that randomly pop up for Halloween?
• 39:17
  Oh, like the Spirit of Halloween? Yeah, the Spirit
• 39:19
  of Hall, the spirit stores. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 39:22
  Where it's like they just take over an abandoned
• 39:24
  building. And then they make all their money
• 39:27
  in one month. Yeah. And it's like crazy. And
• 39:30
  it's also like, No one should ever walk in there
• 39:32
  because it's the craziest things. You see some
• 39:35
  wild stuff in there. Yeah, I went okay, so yeah,
• 39:38
  I love it go So I went I play golf. Yes cats
• 39:44
  out of the bag Oops now they know And I went
• 39:48
  to play golf this last week It's Halloween That's
• 39:54
  that's gotta come from Halloween cats out of
• 39:56
  the bag That's a good question. I don't know.
• 39:59
  Maybe we can ask chat Just make that a whole
• 40:02
  episode. Yeah, somehow. Hey Paul is the cat out
• 40:07
  of the bag? That's a good question, Stephen We'd
• 40:11
  start doing episodes inside of episodes We have
• 40:17
  to do like a reverse of it One two three Yeah,
• 40:23
  but no so I walked into like the clubhouse like
• 40:27
  where you would you would pay and then they have
• 40:29
  like a little bar area where you can get drinks
• 40:32
  or like food or whatever. Yeah. And I go in and
• 40:37
  I like go in between like the clubhouse where
• 40:40
  you would like check into play and the bar. And
• 40:43
  I walk through this hallway to go in and use
• 40:46
  the restroom first. And as I walk in, there's
• 40:49
  like this dead girl that's just standing there.
• 40:55
  in the hallway, and it's like an animatronic
• 40:58
  thing. As I walk past it, it turns and its eyes
• 41:01
  light up. And I'm like, I'm playing golf. I'm
• 41:04
  gonna kick this. What is this? What are we doing
• 41:08
  here? This doesn't make any sense. How is this
• 41:11
  festive at all? How does this make me wanna play
• 41:13
  golf more? Well, you wanna get out of the clubhouse.
• 41:16
  That's true. That's a good point. It was just
• 41:19
  one of those scenes like, why is there just like
• 41:21
  a dead zombie girl right here that's just like...
• 41:24
  Yeah, what's this here for? And I also can't
• 41:26
  tell like, is it like... Like, I can't tell what
• 41:28
  it's from, it's just like... Yeah, I don't know.
• 41:32
  Just like gray skin like I don't know. Yeah,
• 41:35
  it kind of creeps you out It sounds a little
• 41:38
  bit like the Ohio landscape in the winter. Yes
• 41:41
  That's what her skin. Yeah, you nailed it Her
• 41:44
  skin looks like Ohio in the winter It's a beautiful
• 41:48
  love poem. Oh how your skin looked like Ohio
• 41:53
  in the winter Reflects the grays of how you needed
• 41:57
  the warmth of a of a southern man Okay, that's
• 42:02
  a good way That's martyrs marginal after dark
• 42:11
  That's amazing true now we got there anyway How
• 42:21
  do I pivot out of this? Oh, just like spectrum
• 42:23
  of how people believe and interact with the holidays.
• 42:27
  Yeah, and so it's interesting because there's
• 42:29
  a lot of, I've done this a lot on tipsy theology
• 42:33
  for Christmas. It's kind of like a Christmas
• 42:35
  tradition to go in for a Christmas episode and
• 42:38
  talk about how we've misunderstood Christmas
• 42:40
  and its roots. Because I think there's so many
• 42:44
  times where especially, big holidays in the West,
• 42:48
  where we have, there are, where they came from,
• 42:51
  and then what we've turned them into. And then
• 42:53
  when we say they came from, which isn't true.
• 42:57
  Christmas is a nice one, because it's such a
• 42:58
  big holiday. But I think Halloween is another
• 43:01
  one, where we have these ideas of like, hey,
• 43:03
  this is where it came from, this is what it's
• 43:05
  about. But it's like, where are you getting that
• 43:07
  from? And a lot of times, it's just made up.
• 43:11
  Yeah, and I think that that's where like I think
• 43:13
  that's like the core of our podcast. Yeah is
• 43:16
  like Everybody stop for a second Let's observe
• 43:21
  what's happening now. Yeah figure out where it
• 43:23
  came from and figure out if it's actually Like
• 43:26
  if it is what you say it is. Yes. Yeah, because
• 43:29
  it is that type of thing It's like we're especially
• 43:31
  in a day now where there can just be a headline
• 43:35
  Right, and it's like oh and then that headline
• 43:38
  sticks in your head Yes. And then you start saying
• 43:41
  this thing as if it's true and then other people
• 43:44
  are hearing it and it's like, is it true? I honestly
• 43:47
  don't know. Yeah. I heard it from like 10 other
• 43:50
  people. Yeah. And so maybe that amount of people
• 43:53
  makes it true. But I think eventually culturally
• 43:56
  it becomes true because everybody believes it.
• 43:59
  Yeah. But it's not actually rooted in anything.
• 44:03
  Yes. So it's like we need to just like stop for
• 44:06
  a minute. Go, all right, this thing started this
• 44:10
  way. It evolved in this way. These two things
• 44:13
  linked up and we get to this modern day version
• 44:16
  of something we celebrate. And we all look around
• 44:19
  and go, you're demonic or you're too religious
• 44:26
  or you're worshiping. false idols or you're like,
• 44:31
  you know, it's like, we just start pointing our
• 44:33
  finger at people and just be like, you're worshiping
• 44:36
  consumerism and your God is Hallmark when you
• 44:40
  buy gifts at Christmas. And it's like, okay,
• 44:45
  okay. And then like, were birthdays made up by
• 44:49
  marketing in the 50s? I mean, I don't know. Like,
• 44:52
  well, I think I have one. Regardless. And that's
• 45:00
  the thing is like like that is where we I feel
• 45:03
  like that's the crux of all of our conversations
• 45:05
  It kind of is let's go back and look at the original
• 45:07
  and see how it evolved. Yeah, and I think that's
• 45:09
  where We look at what we have today. Yeah, and
• 45:14
  it can be something different than what it was
• 45:16
  for sure I think in a lot of ways that's what
• 45:18
  we'd see But a lot of that is well, I think it's
• 45:22
  mostly some time a lot of times even like Christmas
• 45:25
  is a good one since we've already brought that
• 45:27
  up too. Yeah, it's like Well, yeah, what it was
• 45:30
  isn't necessarily what it is. And then now because
• 45:34
  of what it is, we say, oh, it was actually this
• 45:36
  other thing. When it's like, it was never that.
• 45:39
  We just made it into this thing that now resembles
• 45:41
  that more than it did. And I think that's where
• 45:44
  we're at even with Halloween. It's like, well,
• 45:46
  what it was is not what it is. Yeah. So then
• 45:51
  Paul, where do we first see Halloween? I'm so
• 45:54
  glad you asked that. Yeah, so in our reading,
• 45:57
  there is, something that I brought up in that.
• 46:01
  And I kinda wanna talk about that a little bit,
• 46:03
  because this seems to be from all of my research
• 46:06
  that I've done, is back into a Celtic tradition,
• 46:10
  which is called Samhain. Yeah, and that's like
• 46:14
  thousands of years old. It's very old. Yeah,
• 46:17
  and so it was, it's a Gaelic word, believe it
• 46:20
  or not. Oh, of course. That literally means summer's
• 46:24
  end. Summer's end. So it's the end of summer.
• 46:26
  Things usually are simple. Yeah. Like the origin
• 46:30
  of things usually is the simplest route. A lot
• 46:33
  of times. Typically, yeah. And so it's like,
• 46:36
  OK, so what was it? So it marked the transition
• 46:39
  from the light half of the year to the dark half.
• 46:42
  It was celebrated by the ancient Celts in Ireland,
• 46:45
  Scotland and parts of Britain. In the old Gaelic
• 46:48
  calendar, there were only two main seasons. There
• 46:52
  was the Beltane which I probably saying that
• 46:54
  wrong sure which was May 1st, but they're not
• 46:57
  here to no one can tell me I'm wrong Someone
• 47:00
  will the Gaelic people aren't here. You can comment
• 47:02
  tell me I'm wrong. I love the engagement And
• 47:07
  so that Marked the start of the summer and fertility.
• 47:11
  Okay, and then saw one which was November 1st,
• 47:14
  which was the start of winter and death cool
• 47:17
  The beginning of death. And when you think about
• 47:19
  that, it's kind of what I was saying even with
• 47:21
  Ohio and the winter versus the summer. Which
• 47:24
  is closer to a Celtic region as far as seasons
• 47:27
  go. Because when you get to the cold, more harsh
• 47:30
  winter, and it's like, yeah, things are dead.
• 47:33
  The trees don't have leaves on them. Everything's
• 47:36
  dark. There's not a lot of animals out. True.
• 47:39
  You don't go outside. No. They all go under the
• 47:42
  ground. Yeah. or burrow into the ground? Burrow
• 47:45
  and hibernate. Can you go under the ground? Is
• 47:47
  going under the ground different than going into
• 47:50
  the ground? It doesn't matter. I think it might
• 47:53
  be around the same. It's all based on entry.
• 47:57
  Yeah. How did you get to the ground? That determines
• 48:01
  if you're under it or in it. I'm here for that.
• 48:06
  Yeah. Okay. Problem solved. What layer do you
• 48:10
  go down to? Are you in the Celtic layer? So Samhain
• 48:16
  was the liminal period where the boundaries between
• 48:19
  the natural and the supernatural blurred. It
• 48:22
  was believed that the veil between the living
• 48:23
  and the dead was the thinnest. Spirits of ancestors
• 48:27
  could return to visit their families, but along
• 48:29
  with them came malevolent spirits, fey or demons,
• 48:33
  seeking mischief or harm. It was a time of rituals
• 48:37
  for protection and appeasement, not summoning.
• 48:41
  And I think that's an interesting part in here,
• 48:45
  where it's like, so this period of time, around
• 48:48
  October 31st, November 1st, partly that difference
• 48:54
  is because of how they marked days, from sunset
• 48:57
  to sunset, not day to day. And that goes back
• 49:00
  to a different calendar. Yeah, Hebrews did that
• 49:02
  as well, and continue to do that. Jewish people
• 49:05
  continue to do that. We didn't move to a solar
• 49:07
  calendar until like, The 8th century. Yeah, like
• 49:11
  a couple weeks ago. Or it might have been Julian.
• 49:12
  Yeah, it might have been old Julian. True. But
• 49:16
  again, that's another episode. Or Julius. Julius.
• 49:20
  Caesar. The orange Julius. But what's interesting
• 49:25
  about this is like it's on a natural point. It's
• 49:28
  the time where the bounty of life and living
• 49:34
  and growing things now dies. Sure. and things
• 49:37
  go into this period of hibernation. So it is
• 49:41
  this like physical embodiment of like, yeah,
• 49:43
  things are dead. Well, and that makes me also
• 49:46
  think of like the concept that we've talked about
• 49:49
  a little bit, but like even just pulling in stranger
• 49:53
  things, like the upside down. Like all of a sudden
• 49:55
  the outside world looks like death. And so everyone
• 49:59
  retreats inward or under. So everyone goes under
• 50:04
  -crowned. or they go indoors. So like the outside
• 50:08
  world becomes a desolate place, which is an inviting
• 50:12
  place for spirits. Right, because that's where
• 50:15
  living things are. And so it's also interesting
• 50:19
  because on the supernatural side, they're saying
• 50:23
  like, hey, this is the time when the veil between
• 50:25
  these two things is very thin. And so those guys
• 50:28
  are out and about. Yeah, which then it... is
• 50:33
  interesting because of the idea that ancestors
• 50:36
  can visit, but then if it is a time where ancestors
• 50:41
  visit and that's part of the culture, then there's
• 50:44
  an invitation given by the family members to
• 50:48
  visit with the dead family members. And if there's
• 50:52
  an invitation to dead spirits or passed on bodies,
• 50:59
  but continued living spirits, then it could also
• 51:03
  invite other spirits in that are unwanted, which
• 51:08
  gets sketchy. Gets really sketchy. Yeah, which
• 51:11
  is why the Bible itself talks about don't talk
• 51:15
  to ghosts. Right. Well, and I think it's interesting
• 51:19
  to jump to this point even there, because it's
• 51:21
  like, okay, we're seeing this thing where it's
• 51:23
  this theme around death and passed on things
• 51:27
  coming back. Sure. What my thought was, was The
• 51:33
  Day of the Dead. Right. Which is completely separate
• 51:36
  and independent of Samhain or Halloween. Yeah,
• 51:41
  yeah, yeah. But it's like, oh, well, it's actually
• 51:44
  very similar themes, but, because it's Mexican,
• 51:46
  I think. Day of the Dead. Yeah, it's, it's Mexican,
• 51:52
  it's, I don't know if it's fully South American,
• 51:55
  but I think it is. Kind of filters through. Spanish
• 52:00
  cultures. Yeah. Which interestingly, that is
• 52:04
  November 1st to 2nd. Makes sense. So it's like,
• 52:06
  oh, it's around the same time too? Yeah, but
• 52:08
  it's on a different side of the world. Yes. But
• 52:11
  again, we talked about Boss Baby. The thing that
• 52:15
  I know, the reason why, how much I know about
• 52:20
  Day of the Dead is because of Coco. I was actually,
• 52:24
  that's why I brought it up too. So I was like,
• 52:27
  oh, he's an expert on the movie Coco. He has
• 52:29
  to be. It is a great movie. Because I've seen
• 52:31
  it. Songs are beautiful in that. They're beautiful.
• 52:34
  Yeah. But like a lot of Disney movies, it entertains
• 52:38
  dead people. Right. And that's like the whole
• 52:41
  point of the day. It is. And it's that idea of
• 52:44
  like this is a, they would leave offerings out.
• 52:47
  For their family members and if they didn't then
• 52:50
  the family members that were dead their spirits
• 52:52
  would pass on To a final death. Yes, so they
• 52:56
  would disappear even out of that realm Yeah,
• 53:00
  which feels like a purgatory space it does but
• 53:04
  it's interesting Yeah, so so what happens is
• 53:07
  is on day of the dead. There's a bridge from
• 53:10
  the Underworld or the afterworld. Yeah to to
• 53:16
  the land of the living, and that bridge is accessible
• 53:21
  by the people who are being invited by those
• 53:25
  who remember them. So in that culture that celebrates
• 53:33
  that, they create shrines, basically. They create
• 53:38
  offerings to their dead relatives. And that offering
• 53:43
  to the dead relatives allows the dead relative
• 53:47
  spirit to return for that period of time. Yes.
• 53:52
  So that they can hang out together. Which is
• 53:54
  crazy to think about. It is crazy. But also it's
• 53:58
  funny because like in the grand scheme of things
• 54:00
  like this isn't the wildest thing in the wildest
• 54:03
  thought. No, it's not mentally crazy. Right.
• 54:05
  It's just hard to grasp. It is. So like definition
• 54:09
  of crazy, it's like something that is non -normal.
• 54:13
  Yeah. Yeah. But I think what's interesting and
• 54:17
  the reason I bring that up is like, oh, that's
• 54:19
  kind of a central theme around this festival
• 54:23
  that the Celts celebrated. Sure. And by celebrated,
• 54:26
  not like they're out partying. Yeah. Because
• 54:28
  it's like, even in this like, it was actually
• 54:30
  a terrifying time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And
• 54:33
  it's like, oh, yeah, it's like, you will have
• 54:35
  your relatives come and visit potentially, but
• 54:37
  also. Demons. demons. And you don't know which
• 54:41
  one's which. Yeah. And so it's like there's this
• 54:43
  idea of fear that gets created of like, oh, let's
• 54:47
  not like by celebrating it. It's like, let's
• 54:50
  recognize it. Yes. And let's hide. Yeah. So it
• 54:53
  was less of a celebration and more like a defense.
• 54:57
  They were they created traditions as a defense
• 55:01
  against spirits roaming during that time when
• 55:04
  the spaces became thin. Yeah. And that's even
• 55:07
  where we get like the colors, like orange and
• 55:10
  black for Halloween. It comes from the idea of
• 55:12
  like, here's the darkness, which is the black.
• 55:15
  And then they would light these giant communal
• 55:17
  bonfires to ward off the... So that's where you
• 55:20
  get the orange from the glow of the fire. That's
• 55:23
  cool. I actually didn't know that. But it also
• 55:27
  goes back to like when we talked in our myth
• 55:29
  series about how multiple cultures over spans
• 55:34
  of time in different lands Somehow came up with
• 55:38
  similar themes. Yes or similar beliefs and really
• 55:42
  all that tells me and I feel like this is the
• 55:44
  conclusion that we've come to is like You the
• 55:48
  Celts have an experience where they're interacting
• 55:51
  with spirits. Yes, and then they defend themselves
• 55:54
  Yes, and then there's tradition created because
• 55:57
  it seems to keep happening over time. Yeah, there's
• 56:00
  a pattern Yeah, so that goes back to to the whole
• 56:03
  concept of like these things aren't created proactively
• 56:08
  their reaction to experiences that people are
• 56:11
  having. Because it's one of those where it's
• 56:12
  like to look at and be like, oh, well, they believe
• 56:14
  that these spirits came out. And it's like, yeah,
• 56:16
  why would someone just make that up one day?
• 56:18
  Correct. Be like, oh, I got scared. So there's
• 56:21
  definitely spirits. So let's do this. Yeah. No,
• 56:24
  it was like you tell that guy to grow up if he
• 56:26
  made it up. For sure. Yeah. Well, and also like
• 56:29
  these aren't like wimpy people. Right. Yeah,
• 56:32
  absolutely. Like these are pretty intense people.
• 56:35
  Yeah, they live in harsh conditions. Yeah. Yeah.
• 56:38
  And so like that's that is an interesting idea
• 56:40
  that like they started to see these patterns.
• 56:43
  And so they like they do in the harsh conditions.
• 56:47
  Yeah. They create ways to keep themselves alive
• 56:50
  and safe. Yeah. So they did the same thing in
• 56:53
  spiritual seasons. Yeah. And I think it actually
• 56:55
  made me think of this. I think it's important
• 56:57
  to say to where we. as modern Westerners. Yes.
• 57:03
  We don't understand that - Mod West. Mod West.
• 57:06
  We love our abbreviations. Us and the Mod West.
• 57:10
  The big old Mod W. Mod W. I had to throw the
• 57:17
  uh in there. Little Texas. Yeah. Resources for
• 57:22
  us, even though they might be expensive to attain.
• 57:25
  Okay. They're pretty bountiful. Where it's like,
• 57:28
  if I want to - make a fire at night, I can just
• 57:31
  go buy firewood. So it's like when we look back
• 57:35
  at these times, especially for how long ago this
• 57:38
  was, it's like these people are struggling to
• 57:40
  stay alive. They don't just have stuff to burn.
• 57:43
  They don't just have food. I mean that's even
• 57:46
  where, on a slight tangent, even the idea of
• 57:50
  people eating dairy. That was like a reaction
• 57:53
  to like, hey, I don't know if we're gonna have
• 57:56
  enough food. but these guys are still producing
• 57:59
  milk. And our bodies weren't naturally meant
• 58:02
  to digest that. We're like, what if we just do
• 58:04
  it anyway? And we've adapted and been able to
• 58:08
  digest dairy. Because they're like, we need resources.
• 58:12
  And that's a source of fat, which is helpful
• 58:15
  in harsh conditions. In Florida, you're not necessarily
• 58:20
  gonna need that. Right. But to be fair, if you
• 58:24
  watch the show alone, have you ever watched that?
• 58:27
  That's a great show. But that's the main thing.
• 58:31
  There was one guy on one of the seasons, and
• 58:33
  I think it was one where they were in Alaska
• 58:36
  for 100 days, versus last one standing. They
• 58:39
  more so just had to make it to 100 days. And
• 58:42
  the guy killed an elk the first two weeks or
• 58:45
  something like that. And then he ate all the
• 58:49
  fat first. And then he ended up getting really
• 58:53
  sick and having to leave the show because he
• 58:55
  didn't have enough fat. But he had like a half
• 58:59
  an elk worth of meat. But it wasn't enough fat.
• 59:02
  No. So he was still losing weight. Yes. Which
• 59:06
  is crazy. It's crazy to think about. So then
• 59:08
  you get cheese, dairy, curds. You get all that
• 59:12
  stuff that is a fat supplement. Yes. Which, yeah,
• 59:16
  makes sense. Yeah, and it satisfies what your
• 59:18
  body needs in that case. Yeah, so it's just a
• 59:20
  reminder to kind of go back and go, these people
• 59:22
  weren't necessarily making things up. Yeah. They
• 59:25
  were having... So they couldn't really afford
• 59:27
  to just make things up. No. If they were just
• 59:29
  like, hey, I got really scared last night, so
• 59:31
  let's make a giant bonfire and do all this stuff.
• 59:34
  It's like, you don't have the resources to do
• 59:36
  that. It's the winter time. Sure, and there can
• 59:38
  be like, to bring in... a naturalist view into
• 59:44
  the conversation. You could say they're in harsh
• 59:47
  conditions, they're hunkered down for a period
• 59:50
  of time, maybe their resources are limited, so
• 59:53
  they start hallucinating, they start having these,
• 59:55
  you know what I mean? So that could also be a
• 59:58
  byproduct. But that still doesn't negate the
• 1:00:01
  fact that... that what their traditions are created
• 1:00:05
  from is patterns of experience. So whether they
• 1:00:09
  were actually interacting with spirits and ghosts
• 1:00:12
  and things like that, or they were hallucinating,
• 1:00:16
  it was still happening around that time of year,
• 1:00:18
  over and over again. Well, and that's why I think
• 1:00:21
  it's interesting to bring in the South American
• 1:00:23
  side with Day of the Dead. Oh, yeah. Be just
• 1:00:26
  like, oh, here are these people in the opposite
• 1:00:27
  conditions. Yeah, good point. And they're celebrating
• 1:00:30
  a similar thing. And it's like, how does that
• 1:00:33
  happen? Yeah, so maybe the Northern people are
• 1:00:36
  hallucinating and then the other ones are actually
• 1:00:37
  talking to spirits. They're just on drugs. Well,
• 1:00:40
  that is, but that's a different episode. It is.
• 1:00:45
  Because that's a mini episode within an episode
• 1:00:50
  that should be a full episode, but our drugs
• 1:00:53
  portals to another space. That's our tease. That
• 1:00:56
  is active. But I think it's like, what's the
• 1:01:00
  most reasonable thing to say? When we look, they're
• 1:01:03
  like, what's the easiest thing to say? And it's
• 1:01:06
  like, well the easiest thing to say is they were
• 1:01:09
  probably interacting with spirits. We don't like
• 1:01:13
  saying that. Naturalists don't like saying that.
• 1:01:16
  Sure, but at the same time, whether you're hallucinating
• 1:01:19
  or you're not hallucinating is interacting with
• 1:01:23
  a spirit if your brain is not in a state of hallucination.
• 1:01:27
  Does it feel any different than if you are hallucinating
• 1:01:30
  and is it more or less material? Because if it's
• 1:01:34
  not then logically it's almost the same thing.
• 1:01:36
  Yeah equivalent experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:01:38
  like your body is still Experiencing the same
• 1:01:41
  type of fear. Yeah, that's whether you're hallucinating
• 1:01:44
  something happening and it's not really happening
• 1:01:47
  or You're actually experiencing something happening
• 1:01:51
  actually happening. Yeah, and you're not hallucinating,
• 1:01:54
  right? The fear response is the same So it's
• 1:01:57
  a little bit like apples and oranges. Do you
• 1:02:00
  know what I mean? It's like, well, but it is
• 1:02:03
  hallucination, so the fear is unfounded. No.
• 1:02:07
  Because tell that to the person who's afraid.
• 1:02:10
  Who's actually feeling it, yeah. Yeah, it's like,
• 1:02:13
  even if you say their fear is unfounded, meaning
• 1:02:16
  the result of that logically is that they would
• 1:02:19
  say and have proof that ghosts exist, that's
• 1:02:24
  not really even what we're saying. We're not
• 1:02:27
  we're not even saying that because because in
• 1:02:29
  this instance like they're creating traditions
• 1:02:32
  and things that Eliminate or alleviate fear that
• 1:02:35
  they're having. Yes, whether they're hallucinating
• 1:02:37
  the existence of ghosts or actually seeing ghosts
• 1:02:41
  Yeah, doesn't really matter Because collectively
• 1:02:44
  they're all having this fear. Yes So they they're
• 1:02:48
  creating a coping mechanism for a real fear that
• 1:02:51
  they're actually experiencing Yes, whether it's
• 1:02:54
  hallucinations or actual ghosts. Yeah Yeah, absolutely
• 1:02:57
  I mean But yeah, and well it's interesting actually
• 1:03:06
  because even you brought up the idea of myths
• 1:03:08
  and so one of things I wanted to look into was
• 1:03:12
  Are there myths surrounding this period in this
• 1:03:15
  culture? Okay. Yeah, and What's what? Was interesting
• 1:03:21
  that I found is like there are But they weren't
• 1:03:25
  ever written or fully recorded until they were
• 1:03:28
  Christianized. And all of those had been reframed
• 1:03:33
  through a Christian lens. Where it's like they
• 1:03:36
  didn't have the... After first century. Yeah,
• 1:03:39
  so it's like even where I can see it, it doesn't
• 1:03:41
  mean that none of them were tampered with. But
• 1:03:44
  it's like, it's hard to say yes or no, like they
• 1:03:47
  were adjusted. I see what you're saying. Yeah,
• 1:03:51
  because those... those cultures more so had oral
• 1:03:54
  traditions but then also like paintings or like
• 1:03:58
  the way that they would craft things told the
• 1:04:01
  story or contained the story. Yes. So formal
• 1:04:04
  writing is different. Yeah. But it doesn't necessarily
• 1:04:07
  mean that they didn't have like symbols and ways
• 1:04:11
  of telling the story. Right. And not from like
• 1:04:14
  a - And that's why it's like so they did have
• 1:04:15
  myths that told the story. Right. But they weren't
• 1:04:18
  as far as I could see they weren't Recorded without
• 1:04:22
  modern tampering sure that makes they weren't
• 1:04:24
  preserved in their original state. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:04:26
  Yeah, okay Yeah, so then how do we get to because
• 1:04:31
  they weren't calling it Halloween? Yeah, and
• 1:04:33
  so it's interesting It's like okay. It's where
• 1:04:34
  we get Halloween from they were calling it. What
• 1:04:36
  saw one saw one? Yeah, which is not spelled the
• 1:04:40
  way I pronounced I Looked that one up. Yeah So
• 1:04:46
  Halloween's like what does that mean? Yeah, it's
• 1:04:49
  a contradiction Not a contradiction. It's a contradiction.
• 1:04:52
  It's a contraction. Okay. Of All Hallows Eve.
• 1:04:56
  Right. Which means the evening before All Saints
• 1:04:59
  Day. Makes sense. Yeah. Again, simplest route.
• 1:05:02
  Yeah. Exactly. Simplest route. They took out
• 1:05:04
  all, though. Yeah. They took all out from the
• 1:05:07
  beginning. The evening before All Saints Day.
• 1:05:12
  Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So what's
• 1:05:15
  interesting, though, and I kind of want to...
• 1:05:17
  poke at this for a second, a little bit, is,
• 1:05:20
  because I think that the modern, the mod norm
• 1:05:24
  take, is that, oh well, see when Christians are
• 1:05:30
  spreading into Europe, and these people had all
• 1:05:33
  these pagan traditions, they're like, you know,
• 1:05:34
  it'd be easier for them if they, if we just took
• 1:05:37
  all of their festivals and made them Christian.
• 1:05:40
  Right. which is syncretism is the word for it.
• 1:05:43
  But it's funny, I actually heard someone say
• 1:05:47
  this, and like, but why didn't they do that everywhere?
• 1:05:50
  Sure, and with everything. Yeah, it's like, if
• 1:05:53
  they truly practiced syncretism, of like, let's
• 1:05:57
  just synchronize these things, we would see that
• 1:06:00
  everywhere, but we don't. Oh right, I see what
• 1:06:02
  you're saying. So why did they only do that in
• 1:06:04
  Europe? Right. And what's interesting actually,
• 1:06:07
  this even, we look at like, Conquerors like Romans
• 1:06:12
  for example the Romans for example. It's like
• 1:06:14
  well. Yeah when they conquered places Oftentimes
• 1:06:18
  they would keep the like the names for things
• 1:06:21
  yeah The Romans a lot of times they just renamed
• 1:06:24
  it sure because they were very prideful people
• 1:06:26
  Yes, they're like hey we we conquered you Everything
• 1:06:29
  about you is gonna go away. Yeah, which actually
• 1:06:32
  that's part of the reason why some even with
• 1:06:34
  Like the druids and stuff. We don't have a lot
• 1:06:37
  from them sure because they were conquered by
• 1:06:39
  the Romans Yeah, the Romans said get rid of all
• 1:06:41
  of it. Yeah, just take it all out. Yeah but I
• 1:06:46
  mean cuz we see that in in the United States
• 1:06:48
  where we have a lot of Native American names
• 1:06:51
  for our places like our counties a lot of times
• 1:06:54
  I had that in Ohio. It's like a lot of the counties
• 1:06:56
  and places were named after It's what they originally
• 1:07:00
  were called. Yeah, it makes sense or they were
• 1:07:02
  named in honor of the First Nations people Yeah,
• 1:07:05
  but adopted it. Yeah But like no one knows how
• 1:07:09
  to speak Navajo unless you're of a Navajo tribe
• 1:07:12
  sure yeah It's like they don't teach that in
• 1:07:15
  school And it was kind of in like we don't celebrate
• 1:07:20
  their festivals right and that was it that was
• 1:07:22
  kind of a normal thing so with that being said,
• 1:07:26
  why would we expect anyone just going and be
• 1:07:28
  like, yeah, let's just keep your festivals and
• 1:07:31
  just do it the way we wanna do it. It's like,
• 1:07:34
  we don't see that anywhere. So it's kind of an
• 1:07:37
  interesting idea that developed that makes no
• 1:07:40
  sense and in my opinion has no founding anywhere.
• 1:07:44
  But so it's like, okay, so how do we get to where
• 1:07:46
  we are? Yeah, because you have all these conquering
• 1:07:52
  civilizations. that kind of... I mean, if they're
• 1:07:57
  European, they just kind of whitewash everything.
• 1:08:00
  I don't know how to say that. That's the way
• 1:08:02
  to say it, I feel like. That's basically what
• 1:08:05
  the West did. Yeah. Like, so the Roman culture
• 1:08:10
  just kind of whitewashed the rest of the world.
• 1:08:12
  Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's how we
• 1:08:14
  have the West. Right. The West just made everything.
• 1:08:19
  They just came in and they were like, you now
• 1:08:21
  speak Greek. Yeah. No better start learning.
• 1:08:25
  Yeah, here's a look. They're like, we don't understand
• 1:08:28
  you and they're like you're going to you better
• 1:08:30
  Yeah, I mean that's how it happened Yeah, I know
• 1:08:35
  that's I mean we see it even with the conquistadors
• 1:08:37
  and they came over they're like the conquistadors
• 1:08:40
  It's just fun. It's a fun word. It's pretty fun
• 1:08:42
  But it's like yeah, they would go to these Native
• 1:08:44
  American tribes and be like, hey, so tell us
• 1:08:47
  we're awesome or we're going to kill you." And
• 1:08:49
  they're like, what? They're like, killing time?
• 1:08:54
  They're like, hang on, we don't speak your language,
• 1:08:57
  you don't speak ours. They're like, yeah, that's
• 1:08:58
  the problem. Anyway. That is the problem. That's
• 1:09:01
  crazy. But so that being said, we take these
• 1:09:07
  Christian missionaries, especially in the church,
• 1:09:10
  and as we've been talking about with Christ and
• 1:09:13
  what He did, as He... conquered the spiritual
• 1:09:16
  space. And then he sends his followers out to
• 1:09:20
  do the same thing with the Holy Spirit. It's
• 1:09:22
  like, well, that's what they're doing. They're
• 1:09:24
  making, they're doing warfare, but they're doing
• 1:09:27
  it in a spiritual way. And they're not doing
• 1:09:29
  it in a physical, unless you count like the Crusades.
• 1:09:32
  Well, yeah, but I mean, I feel like that's valid
• 1:09:35
  in the conversation, even we've been having about
• 1:09:37
  Israel and like the church's stance on Israel
• 1:09:40
  and like all of that stuff. Because what happens
• 1:09:43
  is like, Jesus comes in which I think we talked
• 1:09:47
  about this, but it's in a past episode, but it's
• 1:09:50
  the idea that like when Jesus comes in Actually,
• 1:09:54
  no, we didn't talk about this. But when Jesus
• 1:09:56
  shows up The Jewish people are looking for a
• 1:10:01
  military leader Messiah, right? And they had
• 1:10:04
  an example of that like 160, 170 years before
• 1:10:08
  in Judas Maccabeus. And Judas Maccabeus actually
• 1:10:12
  went into the temple and took it back from, do
• 1:10:15
  you remember his name? No. I can't remember his
• 1:10:19
  name. But he took it back from basically the
• 1:10:21
  guy who, like fulfills the prophetic abomination
• 1:10:29
  of desolation spoken about in Daniel on the temple
• 1:10:33
  and in the Maccabees go in and purify the temple
• 1:10:38
  again and that's where you get the beginning
• 1:10:40
  of Hanukkah. So 170 years before Jesus shows
• 1:10:46
  up, there is a Jewish zealot who leads a physical
• 1:10:51
  army to purify the temple and take it back for
• 1:10:54
  the Israelites. Yeah. That does happen right
• 1:10:57
  before Jesus shows up. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So
• 1:11:00
  within two generations, you see that. And so
• 1:11:04
  Jesus shows up and they like want him to go in.
• 1:11:06
  And what does he do? He rides in on a donkey
• 1:11:09
  and you go like. Oh, he should have ridden in
• 1:11:12
  on a white horse. That's what they wanted him
• 1:11:14
  to do. Actually, no, Judas rode in on a donkey.
• 1:11:17
  So Judas Maccabeus rides in on a donkey, which
• 1:11:19
  is like, oh wait, so Jesus is gonna do what he
• 1:11:22
  did. And then he doesn't do that. He doesn't
• 1:11:27
  do it in a physical way. Now he does overturn
• 1:11:30
  the tables and he rebukes the money changers
• 1:11:33
  and basically the Romanization of... the tax
• 1:11:39
  office, the government offices that have been
• 1:11:42
  built around the temple. Yeah. But he doesn't
• 1:11:45
  go in and purify the temple and overthrow the
• 1:11:48
  Roman government. Right. And so like you get
• 1:11:52
  you get this idea that like now Christians are
• 1:11:57
  what are they doing? They're not militarily taking
• 1:12:00
  back. Right. And then at that Jesus says it starts
• 1:12:05
  small, like the kingdom of God starts small and
• 1:12:08
  he's there and it's the mustard seed and it grows
• 1:12:11
  or it's the little bit of leaven in a large amount
• 1:12:13
  of dough and it grows and grows and grows. And
• 1:12:16
  then you get all the way to like 300 A .D. and
• 1:12:20
  Constantine shows up and the government, the
• 1:12:23
  Roman government that killed Jesus now names
• 1:12:28
  Christianity their national religion. And then
• 1:12:34
  you get conquests in the name of Christ in a
• 1:12:39
  way that he never intended. So it's like, guys,
• 1:12:43
  you watched me come in like Judas, but not be
• 1:12:48
  Judas. Now you're going out and you're being
• 1:12:51
  Judas in the rest of the world, but that's not
• 1:12:55
  what I did. It's us trying to go back to what
• 1:12:59
  was. But Jesus said, that's not what we're doing.
• 1:13:03
  Right, it looks different now. And unfortunately,
• 1:13:07
  that's where you get the conquering with the
• 1:13:11
  West in the name of Christ and the Crusades.
• 1:13:14
  That's where you get that. So this is kind of
• 1:13:17
  a mini episode within the episode. It's a great
• 1:13:19
  little mini episode. But because that is what
• 1:13:21
  you get, it's like, was that right that the Christians
• 1:13:23
  did that? No, it was actually against what -
• 1:13:26
  That's not what Jesus called us to do. No, and
• 1:13:28
  he didn't do that. He actually represented literally
• 1:13:31
  the opposite of that, and kinda said, don't do
• 1:13:36
  that. We're like, that's not that important.
• 1:13:39
  No, and that was not his actions, and that wasn't
• 1:13:41
  his message. That wasn't the message, and that's
• 1:13:44
  not how the kingdom of God grew. It grew in the
• 1:13:46
  hearts of man, not by the sword. Jesus will come
• 1:13:50
  back with a sword, but we don't carry the sword,
• 1:13:54
  except the Bible. So yeah, absolutely and I mean
• 1:13:59
  with that it's like that's what we see on the
• 1:14:03
  when it's done, right? Yeah is These followers
• 1:14:07
  of Christ. Yeah that are going into the nations,
• 1:14:10
  right which we see we've brought up Isaiah 66
• 1:14:13
  a lot And it's like that's the call we see in
• 1:14:15
  the Great Commission. That's the same call. It's
• 1:14:18
  the same call from the beginning, be fruitful,
• 1:14:20
  multiply. And it's like he's asking you to go
• 1:14:23
  in there and multiply to be fruitful. And so
• 1:14:28
  we go in and retake these spiritual spaces from
• 1:14:32
  these demonic powers that ruled over the nations.
• 1:14:36
  Because because of Christ, Jesus said, I saw
• 1:14:40
  Satan fall like lightning. We talked about this
• 1:14:41
  on another episode. And it's like, yeah, he said
• 1:14:45
  because of this, now you have authority through
• 1:14:49
  me to go in and take authority over these creatures.
• 1:14:56
  Yeah, which then gets, that kind of jumps into
• 1:14:59
  a modern... maybe a modern conversation around
• 1:15:04
  things like celebrating versus being aware of,
• 1:15:08
  or being protective of, or really even going
• 1:15:12
  back and maybe following more of the original
• 1:15:15
  traditions of a Celtic tradition of keeping the
• 1:15:22
  spirits out versus celebrating the spirits, inviting
• 1:15:27
  them in. And I think that's, bless you. And get
• 1:15:32
  that spirit out. Yeah, and I think that's where
• 1:15:38
  I feel like we've missed it in modern day. Especially
• 1:15:43
  when we look at Halloween. And I'll say this
• 1:15:46
  right now too, I'm not here to say yes you should
• 1:15:49
  or you should not celebrate Halloween. That's
• 1:15:52
  not what I'm here to do, I'm just like, what
• 1:15:54
  was it all about? I think today, the issue is
• 1:15:58
  we've narrowed down on one specific thing. I
• 1:16:02
  mean, briefly, just to bring up Christmas again.
• 1:16:05
  There was a thing last year where people started
• 1:16:07
  learning about Krampus over in Germany in the
• 1:16:09
  Krampus Festival and the parade. And they're
• 1:16:12
  like, oh, they worship demons. And it's like,
• 1:16:14
  you don't know what you're talking about. And
• 1:16:17
  it's like, if you look at the full story of what
• 1:16:19
  the whole thing is about, not just that one day.
• 1:16:22
  you see that it's actually about conquering a
• 1:16:24
  demon. And I think that's what we see here, and
• 1:16:27
  that's what Christianity did when it came in.
• 1:16:29
  It said, hey, here's this festival, this day
• 1:16:33
  that you remember, and you hide in fear from
• 1:16:37
  the dark powers. But now we're gonna call it
• 1:16:41
  Halloween. We're gonna call it the day before
• 1:16:44
  All Saints Day. And why are we gonna do that?
• 1:16:47
  Because All Saints Day is celebrating the triumph
• 1:16:52
  of the light over the dark. And so, when we look
• 1:16:56
  at it in that sense, it's like, hey, here's this
• 1:16:59
  day where we remember, now we remember, before
• 1:17:02
  you lived in fear, now let's remember the fact
• 1:17:04
  that you did live in fear, where these spirits
• 1:17:07
  wandered, and they caused mischief, and they
• 1:17:10
  could have taken your soul if they wanted. But
• 1:17:14
  now, the next day, remember the fact that you
• 1:17:17
  no longer live in fear, because light triumphed.
• 1:17:20
  And I think that's where it's cool we get this
• 1:17:22
  kind of Passover, this Christian Passover view,
• 1:17:26
  where I think one of the things that I think
• 1:17:29
  is interesting and kind of cool in the Passover
• 1:17:32
  meal is the eating of the bitter herb. I don't
• 1:17:37
  know if you're familiar with a full Seder. I'm
• 1:17:39
  sure you are. You went to Israel. I had it in
• 1:17:43
  Israel. Oh, that's so cool. That's really cool,
• 1:17:45
  actually. And so I don't know how familiar people
• 1:17:49
  are here, but I want to highlight this portion
• 1:17:52
  of it because they eat, it's like it's a lettuce
• 1:17:56
  leaf that's dipped in horseradish and it makes
• 1:17:59
  you cry. And it's like, yeah, that's intentional
• 1:18:02
  because it's supposed to represent the bitterness
• 1:18:05
  that Israel went through and the bitterness of
• 1:18:08
  the human condition. And it's like, wait, why
• 1:18:11
  would I do that? Didn't they get delivered? It's
• 1:18:15
  like, yeah, they did, but you're walking through
• 1:18:16
  the journey of them being delivered. And part
• 1:18:19
  of that is you partaking in their suffering.
• 1:18:23
  And so for Halloween, the night before, the evening
• 1:18:27
  before All Saints' Day is, yeah, let's remember
• 1:18:30
  that we lived in fear. And now tomorrow, the
• 1:18:34
  next day, let's remember why we no longer live
• 1:18:36
  in fear. Let's celebrate the fact that we no
• 1:18:39
  longer live in fear. And that's the story of
• 1:18:41
  the Passover. It's like, yes, all this happened,
• 1:18:44
  you lived in turmoil and in trouble, but now
• 1:18:47
  God delivered you. Right. Yeah, because, and
• 1:18:51
  slight other pieces to that is like the Passover
• 1:18:54
  Seder, or Shabbat, it is the Passover meal, the
• 1:19:01
  Shabbat dinner that, practicing Jewish people
• 1:19:07
  do that every single weekend. And it's in remembrance
• 1:19:11
  of God's faithfulness. And then Jesus does the
• 1:19:17
  Passover meal, the Passover Seder with his disciples,
• 1:19:22
  and he replaces the tradition as he becomes the
• 1:19:25
  lamb on the doorpost. So he then replaces it
• 1:19:29
  with communion, which is what Christians practice,
• 1:19:32
  hopefully often. I mean, Jesus says, you know.
• 1:19:38
  As often as you do it. Yeah, as often as you
• 1:19:41
  do it. Hopefully more than once a year. There's
• 1:19:45
  some argument to be every time you gather, and
• 1:19:48
  everybody has different traditions in that, but
• 1:19:50
  the idea is that the Christians are not nullifying
• 1:19:55
  the Passover meal, but the Passover meal is,
• 1:20:00
  it's no longer necessary. in the belief of Christ,
• 1:20:05
  because what's necessary in the belief of Christ
• 1:20:08
  is the remembrance of the body and the blood
• 1:20:10
  of Christ, which represent the final lamb, the
• 1:20:13
  final sacrifice, which is not a nullification
• 1:20:17
  of the Passover, but a fulfillment of it. The
• 1:20:20
  lamb that was slaughtered and the blood put over
• 1:20:23
  the doorpost that is remembered in the Passover
• 1:20:25
  Seder, was pointing to Jesus, that ultimately
• 1:20:29
  would create the opportunity for no other sacrifices
• 1:20:32
  to need to be made. So because of that, then
• 1:20:36
  the Christians get to that point. And then, so
• 1:20:40
  then you have that, do that in remembrance of
• 1:20:42
  me. And then you look at All Saints Day, and
• 1:20:45
  the thing that's interesting about All Saints
• 1:20:47
  Day is you go, remember the victory, but what
• 1:20:51
  is the actual thing that we are doing on All
• 1:20:55
  Saints Day? we were remembering the martyrs.
• 1:20:58
  So All Saints Day is, the purpose of it from
• 1:21:03
  the Catholic Church, Pope Gregory, was to remember
• 1:21:08
  the martyrs and Mary. Yes, Mary's a big part
• 1:21:13
  of it. Mary's always involved. Yeah, and with
• 1:21:17
  that it's like, I think - So the church triumphant?
• 1:21:19
  Yeah. So the idea was that the church triumphant
• 1:21:26
  are the martyrs. Those are the ones who triumphed
• 1:21:31
  in their death while not wavering from their
• 1:21:35
  faith. And then the church militant, which are
• 1:21:39
  the living, so those who are in the body of Christ
• 1:21:44
  alive. Because that would be more November 2nd,
• 1:21:46
  which is All Souls Day. Yes. They are the ones
• 1:21:51
  who celebrate the church triumphant. which is
• 1:21:55
  celebrating Christus Victor, which is the victory
• 1:22:00
  of Christ, death on the cross, which actually
• 1:22:03
  makes up All Hollow Tide. Do you know this? Keep
• 1:22:09
  going. So it's the three day. Yeah. So it's following
• 1:22:12
  the three day tradition, the 31st, the 1st, and
• 1:22:14
  the 2nd. Those three days together are called
• 1:22:18
  All Hollow Tide. Yeah, which is pretty cool.
• 1:22:20
  It's pretty awesome. Yeah. Yeah, and so I mean
• 1:22:23
  that's the that's the cool thing where if we
• 1:22:25
  zoom in to one portion of it. Yeah, it looks
• 1:22:29
  Wrong Sure, I mean, yes. Yeah, it's like something
• 1:22:34
  out of context Yeah, if we just zoom into like
• 1:22:36
  one piece of it or we pull one piece of it away,
• 1:22:38
  right? Outside of the full context of it. It's
• 1:22:41
  like well it can look different than what it
• 1:22:42
  is. Yes And I think it's cool to even like celebrating
• 1:22:47
  the martyrs, which we like to do on this podcast.
• 1:22:50
  Yes. Yes. Which is November 1st tradition. Yes.
• 1:22:55
  It's cool because there's that part of it's like,
• 1:22:58
  well, what were they doing? It's like, well,
• 1:22:59
  they were the big ones out. making moves. Yeah,
• 1:23:03
  for sure. They're getting killed for their faith.
• 1:23:05
  Yeah, the ones that came before, yeah. And there's
• 1:23:07
  cool, even in Catholic and Orthodox traditions,
• 1:23:11
  when you look at some of the icons, which is
• 1:23:14
  big in Orthodox, there are images of martyrs
• 1:23:18
  actually driving a stake through a demon's head
• 1:23:21
  or binding them. And it's like, that's what we're
• 1:23:23
  celebrating. And it's like, we're celebrating
• 1:23:26
  the fact that you once lived in fear, but now
• 1:23:28
  they've been bound. Right. Yeah, so it's a...
• 1:23:33
  And the ones who suffered and died to do that.
• 1:23:36
  Yes. Yeah. Yeah, so it's that idea that on the
• 1:23:41
  31st, we're remembering the death of Christ and
• 1:23:44
  that we have no more fear because of Christ in
• 1:23:48
  us. Absolutely. And then on the 1st, we're celebrating
• 1:23:53
  those who came before us, who carried out that
• 1:23:56
  belief even into their death. Yeah. And then
• 1:23:59
  on the second, we're celebrating the church militant
• 1:24:02
  that we are continuing to build the kingdom of
• 1:24:04
  God. Yeah. Not by the sword, but by the spirit.
• 1:24:10
  Yes. Which is pretty cool. It's pretty awesome.
• 1:24:13
  Yeah. And so I think like all that being said,
• 1:24:17
  yeah, when we focus in on just Halloween. Yeah.
• 1:24:21
  We missed this full story, which is the actual
• 1:24:24
  story. Right. Of what this is all about. Yeah.
• 1:24:27
  Yeah. Yeah, it isn't it isn't Samhain. It isn't
• 1:24:31
  let's hide in fear. Yeah. And let's dress up
• 1:24:34
  like ghouls and goblins so that way they might
• 1:24:36
  confuse us for one of their own and not mess
• 1:24:38
  with us. Right. It's hey, let's remember the
• 1:24:42
  fact that we did do that. And then let's now
• 1:24:45
  live in victory because Christ overcame that.
• 1:24:48
  Right. And that that's the story of Passover.
• 1:24:53
  Yeah. So then our so then back to the original
• 1:24:55
  question. Yeah. then Paul, are you suggesting
• 1:24:59
  that Christians have the ability to reclaim or
• 1:25:05
  maybe take the stance at Halloween that it is
• 1:25:08
  not one day, but instead a three -day opportunity
• 1:25:12
  to remember both the victory of Christ on the
• 1:25:17
  cross and over death, hell, and the grave, and
• 1:25:20
  then the celebrating those who came before us
• 1:25:24
  who died for that that belief and were victorious
• 1:25:29
  in their death. And then those of us who are
• 1:25:32
  still here carrying the cross and in victory,
• 1:25:38
  thus making Halloween or all -hollow tide the
• 1:25:45
  Christian Passover? Absolutely. Cool. Three,
• 1:25:48
  two, one. Saint Dennis. Alright. Saint Dennis.
• 1:26:12
  Saint Dennis. First Bishop of Paris. Wait. You
• 1:26:16
  said dentist. Saint Dentist. The first orthodontist
• 1:26:21
  of Paris. Sorry. Thanks for catching that. I
• 1:26:26
  did not.