Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / Issue 332: More Galaxies, Farther Away

Transcript

Issue 332: More Galaxies, Farther Away · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

0:04
Welcome to the Node Polity. Hi. This is Nick Nastasy, story editor
0:10
on Star Wars, The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
0:15
are listening to aggressive negotiations. Greetings from a recently derelict and disturbingly redecorated New
0:30
Republic cruiser out here in the Outer Rim. We seem to have lost our
0:33
prisoner and apparently most of our crew. I am Jedi Master John Mills,
0:37
and joining me in this salvage expedition to talk about the deeper corners of the
0:43
Star Wars galaxy as we love to do, is my dear friend, Jedi
0:47
Master Matthew Rushing. Matt, I gotta ask, is there any secret ingredient
0:52
that you know of that can get blood and scorch marks out of walls?
0:56
Well, John, I would encourage you, as we all learn in my
1:00
big fat Greek wedding, there's nothing that windex can't do. And so a
1:04
little bit of Windex on there, it's going to clean that right up An's
1:07
elbow grease, It's really going to take that out. You know. It's
1:11
a little spooky being here on this ship. I feel like this is how
1:15
horror movies begin, and especially most likely horror movies in the Star Wars universe
1:21
where somehow a sithe pops out you just weren't ready for. But man,
1:23
I'm really excited to be here and talking some more Star Wars now that we're
1:29
in the Asoka era. John, Yes, that's right, everybody, as
1:33
we record this is celebrating the one character we know for sure that has gone
1:37
into every era of Star Wars that we've seen on screen, which is kind
1:41
of cool when you think about it. And of course here we're part of
1:46
the nerd Party network. Find the network over at joy nerd Party on Twitter.
1:51
The nerd Party is on Facebook and Instagram. The show itself reach out
1:55
to us at the Jedi Masters on x Twitter Twitter. I like that,
2:00
we'll call it x Twitter. It's x Twitter. Reach out there, and
2:04
of course the Nerdparty dot com slash contact. If you want to just give
2:07
us your thoughts, but if you want to give us your reviews, please
2:10
go on over to Apple Podcasts and drop a star rating in review. We
2:15
would appreciate it very very much. Listen, we both know that there are
2:20
more Star Wars podcasts out there than there are stars in the Star Wars galaxy.
2:24
This is true, but we would really appreciate just toss us something.
2:30
It's all we ask for. We don't even ask for money. Just toss
2:32
us a bone. Okay, yeah, just give me something to work with
2:36
here. But okay, now that all that's aside, Matt, you were
2:40
talking about this off, Mike, and I think it's a really good idea
2:44
worth discussing. This idea that with Asoka once again in a way that the
2:52
animated series have explored but we haven't really seen explored in live action up to
2:58
this point. Is this idea that we're not just dealing with a galaxy far
3:02
far away, but that in ancient times, in the Star Wars galaxy,
3:07
they had discovered ways to go to other galaxies and all of the possibilities that
3:14
that opens up. So I wanted to just sort of kick it off with
3:17
that to say, when you see that there's a map leading to a place
3:23
and you look at it and it points to a galaxy outside of the galaxy,
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do you think that this is a new and fresh thing for audiences to
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encounter, or do you think that this is a dead end of some sort.
3:38
Yeah, I mean it's so obviously it's something that we've seen in places.
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Obviously the EU did this of course with the uson Vong. I think
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that's probably the most well known for fans, and then of course for those
3:52
who are video gamers, you would have got like the Zephoins who were a
3:58
part of Jedi Fallen Order and they actually left our galaxy and search for peace
4:02
in another galaxy. You know, we have the understanding that pergol can kind
4:09
of travel in and out of galaxies because of their special abilities in space travel.
4:16
So the ideas of these things and they're being kind of these ancient ones
4:21
is not new obviously too. I think, you know, big time the
4:26
Clone Wars, we have the Mortis episodes where these people kind of outside all
4:30
of space and time in some ways, I mean talk about outside the galaxy.
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I think, you know, that really put you know, crazy on
4:39
the map when it came to the spiritual realities and the ideas of other planes
4:44
of existence. And you know, with the Force, we've seen Yoda travel
4:48
to an incredible part of the galaxy in his arc and the Clone Wars as
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well. So you know, I think the thing that I was really you
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know struck by with what a soak up made me think of was the places
5:03
around the galaxy that we see where we go to thousand year old you know,
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dath Mary planet, you know, where they had massive structures completely different
5:19
than what we saw on Dathomere. You know, we have these other structures
5:24
that are built that hold the map, that allow them to be able to
5:28
see where they're supposed to go. You know, I think of the video
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games, then I even think of you know, and or is it known
5:34
for obviously really tying heavily into the the force. But even there right we're
5:44
on the planet where they have the Eye, you know, and you have
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that old structure there of where the people would come and celebrate this incredible thing
5:54
every year. And so you get this idea of spiritualities and big mysteries permeating
6:01
the Star Wars galaxy in much the same way you would from almost you know,
6:05
kind of any Indiana Jones movie where our civilization is just built on another
6:12
civilization which is built on another, and the Star Wars galaxy feels real and
6:16
old in that way. And to me, that's kind of what I was
6:20
just like thinking of while watching Ahsoka. It's just like how rich the Star
6:25
Wars galaxy really is and it's never really the big focus. But there's just
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something so fun to me about being able to pull these ideas out every once
6:36
in a while and play with them archaeologically. That bend that you're going on
6:42
is the most interesting specifically because it ties into this idea that if you go
6:48
into say the books, you know, I always make reference to Charry to
6:53
the Gods by Eric van danikin you know, but if you go to these
6:57
other books, and I think Graham and Cacus his name. He has like
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a book called Fingerprints of the Gods where he goes through and he says a
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lot of what we think about the track that society went on in development is
7:12
not accurate. That there were older societies, very accomplished in technological societies that
7:17
were wiped out, and that there's been this pattern of reasonably advanced societies getting
7:25
wiped out time and again, and then everything builds back over it. And
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I think that this idea of uncovering these mystical things that underlay a very materialistic
7:38
galaxy where Han Solo, for instance, doesn't have any concept of the spiritual
7:45
when you first encounter him, and there's very much a sense of the galaxy
7:51
has lost sight with its advanced technologies, its ships that can go to hyperspace,
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it's medical technologies and stuff like that. It's lost sense of that spirituality.
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And so I think that it is interesting, even when the Jedi were
8:07
active in the eras that we've seen directly, even they were just almost like
8:13
a tolkien esque shadow of the great Ones that came before, if that makes
8:18
any sense. So maybe it's more that this ties into the idea of a
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very tolkien Esque vibe that sometimes permeates Star Wars, with this idea of we're
8:30
living in the Third Age, which is not as great as the Second Age,
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which is nothing compared to the First Age, and sort of how these
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ages go through. My question becomes, do they open a door here if
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they find another galaxy to go to that they have a map to. Are
8:46
we suddenly blowing up open all of the possibilities of what Star Wars could do
8:52
or be and opening ourselves to basically endless stories that will just never come to
9:00
Yeah, I mean that's a good question. You know, I was even
9:03
thinking again, you know, a small thing in and or the cotton.
9:09
I think that's what it is. Uh, the it's it's from the Knights
9:16
the Oald Republic game, so you know you have even in the crystal that
9:22
and Or is given is down payment right to hold onto, which is a
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reference all the way back to uh, you know, the Knights of the
9:30
World of Republic game. Uh and so again a very old civilization. So
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your question I'm thinking about, you know, the opening up of this other
9:37
galaxy and everything. I'm also wondering, is this actually a way to explain
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why certain characters aren't around, you know, during the sequel trilogy era,
9:54
because we're all fighting another war in another galaxy, trying to save our own
9:58
galaxy from another war. I don't know that, but it just like you
10:03
said, it creates all of these realms of possibility. But I think it
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also opens up by subtly putting these layers in here. Then to go back
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and do some sort of like Old Republic show or something like that, it's
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much more interesting because we've we've seen the layers of it now, you know
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what I'm saying, Like you're you're actually setting yourself up for what comes later
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smartly. It reminds me of the way you want to talk a lot of
10:37
Star Trek on this show. But the way the Star Trek D's face nine
10:41
writers would they would write something, but then they would just pick up that
10:45
thread later on and kind of run with it. They'd realize, oh,
10:48
we've got a great story here. It wasn't necessarily the main plan, but
10:52
they turned it into the main plan because they were able to find a way
10:56
to really make it into something. And I think by doing shows like this,
11:01
where it's whether it's the Mandalorian or Soca, even the stuff we did
11:05
in the Clone Wars, there's all of these pieces then that you can pick
11:09
up later on and play with. And so I think that's what it shows
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me is that the Star Wars universe is rife with ministries that are just looking
11:20
to be finally explored if you can find a way to do it right.
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I like the idea of what you're talking about that this could wind up being
11:28
the way to explain why certain people aren't active during say, for instance,
11:35
these sequel trilogy era. And I think it also ties in again to sort
11:43
of a slick thing that Star Wars creators, especially Filoni, is known for
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this, but there are others on the crews that are very well versed in
11:54
the old lore and are very very adept at working these things in, so
12:00
you know it, Kudos to everybody. But it seems to me that this
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is also a very subtle sort of idea of referencing something like Outbound Flight.
12:16
Oh yes, oh yes, where we could wind up finding that there are
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a whole bunch of other Jedi out there, or a whole bunch of others
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I or a whole but like, how interesting would it be? Now?
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Of course, we can't project ourselves there because we haven't even ended the Asoka
12:35
series as we're as we're discussing this, but I think it's a great pressure
12:43
release valve to have something where you can send the characters off to this different
12:50
location, everybody will accept that that's why they're not there during the sequel trilogy
12:56
era or whatever, or a prequel era or any other era, and give
13:01
tremendous storytelling opportunities to somebody to say, oh, you don't really like what's
13:05
going on over here in the primary galaxy, well let's go back on over
13:09
to the secondary galaxy where we might have an adventure that you like. Basically,
13:13
it opens up a whole other section to the library where you can walk
13:16
over and you can say, oh, yeah, you know what, I
13:20
am in the mood for that type of story again well, and I mean
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this is one of the things that you know, Jedi Survivor, the sequel
13:28
to Fall in Order also did this by having this planet that is hidden,
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that's very difficult to get to, and in many ways the same type of
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story that we're getting in Ahsoka, where you're finding this map and there's this
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one special way to get to this place, very similar to that, and
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so it feels like there's a intended and reasoned thought process there at Lucasfilm that
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you're putting these things in place for a reason because you want to be able
14:07
to use them. And I think that's an incredibly interesting It's not like it's
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an alternate reality, but it's it's an alternate history that allows you to create
14:20
something that can then come back, say during the ray Era, and have
14:26
an influence because it's but I think more than anything, what it gives us
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the opportunity to do is to explore these characters to which so many people in
14:37
you know, Star Wars have fallen in love with. But I think also
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to me, just to explore this mysterious nature of the Star Wars galaxy which
14:48
the more and more we've gotten storytelling from people like you know, George Lucas
14:52
and of course Dave Filoni, the Star Wars galaxy is nuts and when it's
15:00
done right, it's nuts in a way that just kind of blows your mind.
15:03
And like, that was so cool. I can't believe they did that.
15:05
I kind of want to know more about that. And I think that
15:09
seems to be in some ways, like it's not just nuts for nuts sake,
15:13
but that nuts nous is always about how to tell a story that moves
15:22
our characters forward. I think that there are so many different possibilities of danger
15:28
right now is as we're recording this, it's so easy to get into Ooh,
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wouldn't it be cool if this? Would it be cool if that?
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And I'm going into this guarded because if we get to that other galaxy,
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there's no guarantee that we will, but if we were to get there,
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I am so curious as to what the rules of that galaxy will be because
15:52
going even before the Vong, going back to the original Marvel Comics series with
15:58
the Nagui, they were the original extragalactic threat, and we also know that
16:03
one of the things that people have always tried to square up as the idea
16:06
of the Salomere in the original Thrawn trilogy. Like, there's a part of
16:11
me that's really curious is like, is this the galaxy without the Force?
16:15
And so that's why Jedi are like really thrown out of whack or something that
16:21
I'm not trying to get into speculation. I'm just trying to use that as
16:23
an example of there is so so much possible with what they are heading toward
16:33
with this well and the question then, I mean, you know, obviously
16:37
the dath Mary are a part of this in a big way. With Morgan
16:41
Elsbeth, I think that also creates a question of are the dath Mary from
16:48
that universe in some way and that's why their magic is in touch with the
16:52
Force, but it's different, you know, And so there's this I think
16:56
you're just again there's just so many incredible opportunities for storytelling that are really interesting
17:03
to me. But I think at the same time, I like when I'm
17:11
watching Star Wars because this is the thing that always struck me from the very
17:17
first time I saw the original trilogy was the way in which every scene seemed
17:22
to scream at you this universe has been going on for a long time,
17:29
and it's lived in and there's so much about it around every corner, you
17:34
know. It's like if you just like looked right off screen, you would
17:38
see something. And I think that's fascinating to me, and the thing to
17:44
which these shows are are utilizing those mysteries and continuing to kind of build into
17:49
those mysteries for their benefit, but at the same time just raising more of
17:56
those like fan like, I just feel like, just right there, there's
18:00
so much storytelling opportunity, and I want to know more about the think and
18:03
that's fun to me, Like I enjoy the speculation, but I also just
18:10
enjoy the joy of watching a show that is so visually interesting and feels so
18:18
and this feels weird to say about ridiculous fanshy show, but feel so real
18:22
that I want to be able to know more about this thing, you know,
18:27
and I think that's just incredibly well done. Then well, I just
18:33
as sort of like a parting thought. One of the reasons I also gravitate
18:37
towards this ideafo, well, we'll go outside the galaxy. I might annoy
18:41
somebody who's a big Marvel fan. That's listening and something like that. But
18:45
this, to me is a more worthwhile expression of the storytelling instinct that has
18:52
taken over everybody else with the multiverse theory, and instead multiple galaxies is not
18:59
a theory, it's a thing. So why don't we go down that road
19:03
instead? Guys, why why don't we go down there and explore multiple galaxies
19:07
instead of multi verses? At this point, because even when we explore the
19:11
multiverse, it's always simply how is it different on this one planet? It's
19:15
like, Okay, still limited here, We're still kind of limited in what
19:18
we're looking at, but that's fine. Ultimately, the thing that excites me
19:25
most is that this is the first live action venture that is embracing the insanity.
19:33
I mean that in a good way of the animated series. The animated
19:38
series never felt limited by what had come before. If there was something nuts,
19:44
for instance, helicopter lightsabers and somebody said I want to do a helicopter
19:48
lightsaber and they figured out could we make it work? Sure? Why not?
19:52
Let's have fun. This feels more like that expression of why not do
19:57
it? Why why be limited? Why not go for it? Let's do
20:02
this thing? And that's the That's what I think this travel to Another Galaxy
20:08
impulse is is it's a little bit crazy, it's a little bit odd,
20:17
and it's entirely fresh without being continuity disruptive, if that makes sense. Yeah.
20:26
I mean I like what you're saying there because and I agree with you
20:30
wholeheartedly that And we talked about this last week, So I think this is
20:36
interesting, you know, kind of building upon that idea of why the Star
20:41
Wars animation has been such a successful story telling flat platform. And I think
20:45
that's because that it embraced all that Star Wars had to offer, even the
20:52
crazier sides, right. I mean I always come back to, you know,
20:59
but you know, before the Morte Sark and all that stuff, we
21:02
had basically a Godzilla episode, you know, and we found a way to
21:07
make that work within the storytelling structure of Star Wars and make it feel completely
21:14
Star Wars and not forced or weird or alien or whatnot. And then we
21:19
got into things like you know, Assage Ventriss and her you know, dath
21:25
Mary Heritage, and we worked in something from the EU like dath Mary Witches,
21:29
but we made it our own, and so that kind of ramped up
21:32
the crazy, and you know, it's just really embracing the ability to do
21:37
so much for this universe and play with so many fun, different mysteries that
21:42
are always going to be asking bigger and cooler and crazier questions. I think
21:49
is a great way to continue to do storytelling. But at the same time,
21:55
to me, this is where those mysteries don't become the impetus for the
22:03
storytelling. The emphasis for the storytelling is our character journeys. It's always about
22:10
the hero's journey, right, and what our heroes are going through or you
22:15
know, depending on the storytelling, what the villains are going through, and
22:18
everything else revolves around that. And I think that's the thing where again to
22:25
Star Wars is at its best when the crazy that's happening around us reinforces the
22:33
story that we're telling for the character on screen. And when you lose that
22:38
focus, that's when things begin to fall apart a little bit. And you
22:42
know, again, that's what's great. I think about the way in which
22:45
these mysterious things show up and video games and television shows and animated shows and
22:52
the films and you know, books and all that stuff. I mean,
22:56
you know, you and I even thinking about crazy. We loved the Throne
23:02
trilogy, that the most recent one thrown ascendancy the whole Chiss side of the
23:07
universe totally different than the rest of the Star Wars universe, right, and
23:11
so opening that up and and and playing with that in literature. So but
23:18
it was all done to tell the story for the character of Throne. And
23:23
so, you know, to me, this is just it's just so much
23:27
fun and and uh, you know, it makes me excited for what's going
23:32
to come next with Ahsoka. It makes me excited then of course what they
23:34
could do with something like the Skeleton Crew show and beyond and you know,
23:42
of course a bad Batch season three and god willing more, uh, Tales
23:48
of the Jedi and you know, Dave Faloni film and you know, and
23:52
all of this. It also makes me excited for the thought process of of
23:56
if done right, what James Mangold wants to do with the beginning of the
24:02
Star Wars universe, in the sense of like the Jedi, the Force,
24:06
you know, all that stuff talk about super crazy. If you do that
24:10
right, it could be incredible. If you do that wrong, it could
24:12
be a train wreck, It would be boring. You could do it wrong.
24:17
So but it's going to be the ice edge. But there's the possibility
24:21
that could be really sticking cool. Yes, and possibilities are what we like
24:26
to entertain, but we also like to entertain counterpoints, thoughts, criticisms,
24:32
anything that you like to hurl at us and Matt. If people want to
24:36
find you online, where can they? Well, you know, I've realized
24:41
that the only reason for twitter x to exist is for people to tell me
24:48
that I'm wrong or stupid and social media wol just in general, I feel
24:52
like so hit me up on Instagram, Twitter, Letterbox, Vero, Matt
24:56
Rushing zero two. Here on the network, you can find me doing outposts
25:00
where we talk about Harry Potter series one chapter at a time. We've covered
25:03
that entire series. We hope you'll enjoy that show. Over on the TFM
25:07
network, you'll find me in doing a bunch of shows. One is called
25:10
the six O two Club and we talk about all of the phantoms we love,
25:14
including Star Wars. John's also a frequent guest over there, so we
25:18
hope you'll check that out. We've also got literary treks, the orb Warp,
25:22
five Saddle Up, and the Artificial Tango. But John, you know,
25:26
when you're not trying to find where they kept the hidden whiskey vault on
25:32
this derelict ship, where can they find you? Wow? Hey, come
25:36
on, that's just that would be rude of me to be looking around for
25:38
the captain's private status of Karelian Brandy and I also deserve it. But you
25:44
can find me out there as Castle junkie. Haha, have fun if you
25:48
will. Yay. Probably letterbox is the only place that you'd like to connect
25:52
with me online. I do lurk on Twitter as well. You can also
25:56
find me right here on the network, co hosting a show called house Lights
26:00
where hold onto your Hats we talk about movies. I co host that with
26:03
Tristan Merdell and Darren Moser And we have a time. Won't you have a
26:07
time with us? And speaking of time, it is time Master rushing to
26:12
close these negotiations, John, negotiations are closed. Join the Revolution, Join
26:23
the nerd Party.