Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Pastor T.L. Barrett’s Gospel

Transcript

Pastor T.L. Barrett’s Gospel · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Pastor Teo Barrett's been known on Chicago's South Side
0:24
Speaker 1: as a religious and community leader for fifty years, but
0:28
Speaker 1: it wasn't until recently that people started to uncover Barrett's
0:31
Speaker 1: trove of gospel music. In the nineteen seventies, Barrett began
0:46
Speaker 1: making recordings of the music performed in his church. These
0:49
Speaker 1: were sermons he turned into songs that sat around for
0:52
Speaker 1: years until rappers started sampling them in the last decade,
0:56
Speaker 1: people like Kanye West, Ti, DJ Khalin, Alicia Keys. His
1:02
Speaker 1: song Nobody Knows was even used in a popular Nike
1:04
Speaker 1: commercialist Steph Curry a couple of years ago. All this
1:08
Speaker 1: recent attention on aster TiO Barrett has culminated in a
1:11
Speaker 1: new box set from the Numero group called I Should
1:14
Speaker 1: Wear a Crown, thirty nine tracks of his songs and
1:17
Speaker 1: sermons throughout the years. You'll notice in my conversation with
1:21
Speaker 1: TiO Barrett that he's a pastor through and through. He
1:25
Speaker 1: can't help but breach, and in this episode you'll hear
1:28
Speaker 1: a lot of his trademark aphorisms. You'll also hear about
1:32
Speaker 1: his distant relation to the Reverend Ceo Franklin, and of
1:34
Speaker 1: course his daughter, the great Arita Franklin. Pastor Barrett and
1:38
Speaker 1: I also talk about how he went from a high
1:40
Speaker 1: school dropout to a community leader, plus what it was
1:43
Speaker 1: like for him to have his music discovered so publicly
1:45
Speaker 1: after decades. This is broken record liner notes for the
1:52
Speaker 1: digital age. I'm justin Richmondtin. Here's my conversation with Pastor
2:01
Speaker 1: TiO Barrett. We should start from the beginning. You have
2:05
Speaker 1: such a rich, fascinating history and the fact that you
2:09
Speaker 1: grew up between Queens in Chicago. Can you tell me
2:12
Speaker 1: a little bit about Queens and Chicago when you were
2:15
Speaker 1: growing up. Yes, I was born in Jamaica, Queens and
2:20
Speaker 1: that was in nineteen forty four. So in nineteen fifty one,
2:25
Speaker 1: my father had a leading to come to Chicago, where
2:30
Speaker 1: we had relatives of his sisters and his brother, and
2:34
Speaker 1: so we moved to Chicago and that's where he started
2:38
Speaker 1: his ministry. Moved into them Otobie Welles projects, and that's
2:44
Speaker 1: where I grew up and we stayed there until just
2:51
Speaker 1: before my father's passing, and I was sixteen years of age.
2:57
Speaker 1: It wasn't a very pleasant period in my life because
3:01
Speaker 1: all of a sudden I was thrust into the mainstream
3:05
Speaker 1: of fending for myself. But I had no kind of
3:09
Speaker 1: financial cushion to fall back on. So when he passed
3:14
Speaker 1: away shortly after that, I was dismissed from the window
3:20
Speaker 1: Phillips High School. And I had barely gotten into high
3:24
Speaker 1: school on a summer school program. And the last thing
3:29
Speaker 1: that the guidance counselor told me as I was leaving out,
3:34
Speaker 1: she said, oh, one more thing, Talbert, come back over here.
3:37
Speaker 1: But she shook her well manecute finger in my face
3:39
Speaker 1: and said, I just want you to know you will
3:42
Speaker 1: never ever amount to anything. Well that really set me
3:49
Speaker 1: on a road for discovery for my recovering. My sister
3:57
Speaker 1: lived at fifty seventh in Indiana. My parents weren't home
4:01
Speaker 1: and my sister was home, so that was the only
4:05
Speaker 1: place I could go, And so I went to my
4:08
Speaker 1: sister's house. But I made a deal with God. Let's say, God,
4:12
Speaker 1: if you come out of that sky and just get
4:15
Speaker 1: right into my eye, let me have a very personal
4:19
Speaker 1: relationship with you and let me discover the power of
4:23
Speaker 1: you from inside. I want you to be personal with me.
4:29
Speaker 1: I promised God two things that I would keep my
4:33
Speaker 1: body clean, no drugs, no alcoholic beverages, and I would
4:37
Speaker 1: work to make my mind keen. Since they wouldn't educate me,
4:40
Speaker 1: I'd educate myself. So I walked from thirty ninth in
4:43
Speaker 1: Indiana to fifty seventh in Indiana. Well fast forward to today,
4:49
Speaker 1: I am sitting in a million dollar plus edifice that
4:55
Speaker 1: I in my congregation erected in nineteen eighty two. But
5:00
Speaker 1: guess where it sits. Justin It sits on the corner
5:04
Speaker 1: of fifty fifth in Indiana, which means I walked across
5:11
Speaker 1: this street when I was sixteen years old with an
5:15
Speaker 1: ache in my heart, but the determination in my soul
5:18
Speaker 1: that what that lady said about me, her negative prognostication,
5:23
Speaker 1: would not become a positive fact to me. Today I
5:27
Speaker 1: owned this corner. My name is on the street sign
5:33
Speaker 1: for six blocks from fifty fifth and Lafayette, which is
5:38
Speaker 1: where my old church was to fifty five in Indiana.
5:42
Speaker 1: It's called T. L. Barrett Boulevard. So after my father died,
5:47
Speaker 1: I went back to New York and that's where I
5:51
Speaker 1: got my education. I went to the New York State
5:54
Speaker 1: Board of Regents after cramming studying, then they gave me
5:58
Speaker 1: my high school deployment. But then I came back to
6:01
Speaker 1: Chicago because I wanted to find that lady and make
6:06
Speaker 1: her aware of how wrong she was. Did you ever
6:11
Speaker 1: come across that guidance counselor again? You know what? For
6:14
Speaker 1: years I was on the radio, and for years I
6:19
Speaker 1: would send her invitations to come to my church because
6:25
Speaker 1: I had a seat reserved for her. I invited her
6:28
Speaker 1: to come to my home because I had a guest
6:30
Speaker 1: room reserved for her. But I found out from some
6:34
Speaker 1: others that she did hear me, but she was too
6:38
Speaker 1: ashamed to come forward, so I never heard from her again.
6:43
Speaker 1: What was the reason you were kicked out of school?
6:45
Speaker 1: Because I was delinquent. I didn't understand then that my
6:50
Speaker 1: creativity was causing my anxiety. But I didn't understand it then,
6:55
Speaker 1: and I would never do anything that was negatively nefarious.
7:00
Speaker 1: In study hall, I would get my trio and we'd
7:03
Speaker 1: go behind the curtains in the assembly and we would
7:08
Speaker 1: started playing music and have the whole assembly rocking. And
7:12
Speaker 1: I get suspended for things like that. So now the
7:16
Speaker 1: reason why I'm telling you all of this is to
7:19
Speaker 1: show you that some of my music was born out
7:21
Speaker 1: of that pathos that I lived through. I felt like
7:26
Speaker 1: I was like a ship without a sale, and that's
7:30
Speaker 1: a pitiful thing, because ships have cargo, valuable cargo. I
7:38
Speaker 1: felt that I had some valuable cargo that could make
7:42
Speaker 1: an impressive contribution to the building of a greater society.
7:48
Speaker 1: But I didn't have a sale. But I found myself.
7:50
Speaker 1: So the song says, but I know we can make it.
7:55
Speaker 1: I know we can take it, and no matter what
7:57
Speaker 1: burdens are on us, I know we can shake it
8:00
Speaker 1: because we are like ships. Don't ever forget that You're
8:02
Speaker 1: like a ship. You have cargo, you have valuable cargo.
8:07
Speaker 1: And then when I thought about being like a ship
8:14
Speaker 1: without a sail, just like a sheep without shame, just
8:32
Speaker 1: like a sheep, we same. And I know, but I
8:44
Speaker 1: know we can make I know we can't take care.
8:53
Speaker 1: I know we can take it, take cad. I know
9:01
Speaker 1: we could shake it, sad man. So that began my
9:14
Speaker 1: message to the young people. I drew young people to
9:19
Speaker 1: my ministry in that little church on a one way
9:22
Speaker 1: street going north called Lifiat Avenue, and every Tuesday night,
9:25
Speaker 1: young people would come from everywhere, and then celebrity started
9:30
Speaker 1: hearing about those young people. People like Donnie Hathaway found
9:34
Speaker 1: his way there one night, and then Earthwind and Fire,
9:38
Speaker 1: Philip Bailey, who's the lead singer, Andrew Warfolk who's a
9:42
Speaker 1: horn player, and Larry Dunn who's a drummer. They all
9:45
Speaker 1: came over there that night, and the message that they
9:49
Speaker 1: heard touched their hearts, and the young people that they saw,
9:54
Speaker 1: that amalgamation of message and meaningful ministry touched their hearts.
10:01
Speaker 1: I became the spiritual counselor to Earth Wind and Fire.
10:07
Speaker 1: So before sixteen, would you say you grew up were
10:10
Speaker 1: you spiritual or were you a believer? Did you grew
10:12
Speaker 1: up going to church? My father was a minister. My
10:16
Speaker 1: father was a preacher. I already had a strong moral
10:20
Speaker 1: compass embedded within me. You know, your dad was a minister.
10:24
Speaker 1: There was like an attention or an anxiety that you
10:26
Speaker 1: were feeling, And it's almost feels like there was a
10:28
Speaker 1: tension maybe between your sort of church religious life, in
10:33
Speaker 1: her spiritual life, and between maybe music, which maybe felt
10:37
Speaker 1: like a more of a worldly poll. I'm just curious
10:40
Speaker 1: where that anxiety was coming from. Where you feel your
10:43
Speaker 1: creativity also came from. It was born out of frustration,
10:47
Speaker 1: you see, I almost turned against the church. You see,
10:51
Speaker 1: I never even graduated from grammar school. They would keep
10:54
Speaker 1: us in church almost every night. I'm past midnight, and
10:59
Speaker 1: I would be sleeping in school the next day, and
11:02
Speaker 1: I remember my teacher said, why are you sleeping? I said,
11:05
Speaker 1: because I was at church last night. And then when
11:06
Speaker 1: I would tell my father and the church members, they
11:09
Speaker 1: would say, well, those people are they don't know God,
11:12
Speaker 1: and Jesus is coming back any day now, and you'll
11:16
Speaker 1: be ready to go to heaven. And well, as you know,
11:18
Speaker 1: Jesus didn't come back. I got left back. So I
11:21
Speaker 1: had to fight back and and I said, God, I'm
11:26
Speaker 1: not going to teach that kind of theology because it
11:31
Speaker 1: doesn't inspire you. If you're going to church and you're
11:35
Speaker 1: hearing that any day now Jesus is going to come
11:39
Speaker 1: back and take us all the way, then why would
11:42
Speaker 1: you struggle with math and and algebra. So when I
11:46
Speaker 1: found out that I was being left back, then I
11:49
Speaker 1: begin to fight back and I and I just it
11:53
Speaker 1: came out in a lot of negative ways, and they
11:57
Speaker 1: just put me out of most of the schools on
11:59
Speaker 1: the South side of Chicago. But it wasn't until that
12:03
Speaker 1: lady told me that I would never amount to nothing
12:07
Speaker 1: and that's when the shock of that reality that I'm
12:11
Speaker 1: out here by myself hit me and that I'm gonna
12:14
Speaker 1: have to seek my own relationship with God. And I did.
12:20
Speaker 1: We'll call new thought theology. It's not about a God
12:24
Speaker 1: in the sky, It's about a God in your eye,
12:28
Speaker 1: just like I'm talking to you right now, I'm talking
12:30
Speaker 1: to God. Why not? Why do I say that? Because
12:33
Speaker 1: man is the only creature that God created, not living.
12:37
Speaker 1: So I teach people to do unto others, not as
12:39
Speaker 1: you would have others to do unto you, but do
12:41
Speaker 1: unto others that you would do unto God. Not all
12:44
Speaker 1: living things have the presence and the energy of God
12:47
Speaker 1: in them, But the human beings are the represent tours
12:51
Speaker 1: of God. See, every time I get a chance to
12:54
Speaker 1: meet another human being, that's my chance to represent God
12:58
Speaker 1: to them. And that's why I have to treat you
13:00
Speaker 1: like you are a celebrity, even if I don't know
13:04
Speaker 1: your name. So if man and woman are representurs of God,
13:08
Speaker 1: that's right. Is music with music, with art with dance,
13:13
Speaker 1: They're all kinds of ways. And the beautiful part about
13:18
Speaker 1: life is God does not discriminate on who that breath,
13:23
Speaker 1: that creative breath of God is bequeathed too. That's why
13:28
Speaker 1: in our church we don't judge anyone now anything that
13:33
Speaker 1: is perverse, yes, but we do not sit in the
13:36
Speaker 1: seat of judgment against anyone. I like that. We'll be
13:42
Speaker 1: right back with more from Pastor til Barrett. After a
13:44
Speaker 1: quick break, we're back with Pastor til Barrett to take
13:52
Speaker 1: it back to childhood and music. Yeah, what were you
13:54
Speaker 1: listening to? I mean, you're growing up in two hotbeds
13:58
Speaker 1: of just beautiful Black American music between New York City
14:03
Speaker 1: and Chicago and the forties, fifties and sixties. What are
14:06
Speaker 1: you taking in? Man? My father was a guitar player
14:10
Speaker 1: and he had a group called the Southern Wonders, a
14:13
Speaker 1: gospel singing group, and then he formed us once he
14:16
Speaker 1: had us, my brother and my sister myself into a
14:19
Speaker 1: group of singers called the Barrett Singers. So we grew
14:23
Speaker 1: up listening to and you won't know anything about these
14:26
Speaker 1: groups like the Swan Silver Tones. Come on, that's where
14:30
Speaker 1: Bridge Over Trouble of Water comes from. Okay, do you remember, Yeah,
14:34
Speaker 1: Sam Cook and the Soul Stirs. We grew up listening
14:39
Speaker 1: to them. We would travel the circuit with pop Staples
14:43
Speaker 1: and the Staples singers. Wow. Yeah, Mavis and I and
14:47
Speaker 1: the Staples we were We were very tight when you
14:49
Speaker 1: were a kid. Yeah, Pop. Staples and my father were
14:52
Speaker 1: very close, and the Staples and the Barrats. Whatever you
14:55
Speaker 1: saw the Staples singers, you usually saw the Barretts singers
14:59
Speaker 1: until they went totally pop. Then they took off like rockets.
15:03
Speaker 1: My father stayed with the church and that genre, so
15:07
Speaker 1: I was inspired by that music but also had an
15:11
Speaker 1: ear for jazz. I became a jazz pianist. I got
15:19
Speaker 1: a gig at the Waldorf Astoria when I was seventeen
15:23
Speaker 1: years old. I would play every New Year's Eve. There
15:26
Speaker 1: was this group that would hire me to play. I
15:29
Speaker 1: was mixing the two, preaching the gospel and you know,
15:33
Speaker 1: trying to play jazz music at the same time. And
15:37
Speaker 1: it wasn't until I became a pastor that I was
15:40
Speaker 1: able to merge the two. And my favorite pianist was
15:45
Speaker 1: Eryl Ghanner. I didn't know about Errol Ghanner, but people
15:48
Speaker 1: would tell me, said, you remind me of erl Ghanner
15:51
Speaker 1: with a syncopated left hand. Well, first of all, I
15:54
Speaker 1: didn't know what syncopatient was. I thought I said, there's
15:58
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with my hand. That said old. I thought
16:02
Speaker 1: they were saying I had a crippled hand or something,
16:04
Speaker 1: but it was the rhythmic pattern that he would keep
16:07
Speaker 1: with his left hand. I know one of my albums,
16:10
Speaker 1: I think it's like a ship. I do a piano
16:12
Speaker 1: solo that's call Blessed Quietness and it's kind of a
16:16
Speaker 1: parent there. So, Oscar Peterson, Errol Garner very very strong
16:22
Speaker 1: influences on my music. Can you can you show us
16:25
Speaker 1: what it means to play like Karma like Errol Garner? Okay,
16:29
Speaker 1: there was a song you used to play. It's an
16:31
Speaker 1: old song called what are you gonna do? You're undecided?
16:34
Speaker 1: Now what are you gonna do? Here? Got don who?
18:10
Speaker 1: And what's going on that left hand? What's like? What? What?
18:12
Speaker 1: What is uh? Is that? I don't know? That's I mean,
18:15
Speaker 1: it just came. That's where I started playing, and they
18:19
Speaker 1: told me that that was erl Donna stun. Then I
18:22
Speaker 1: started listening to him. That's it. I don't know how
18:26
Speaker 1: so is that what should be playing at the Waldorf
18:28
Speaker 1: Historia as well? That sort of thing? Yeah, well, it
18:32
Speaker 1: was all secular music at the wall doorf because you know,
18:36
Speaker 1: people celebrating the New Year's Eve, and they wanted to
18:39
Speaker 1: hear things like, look at me as a kitten clinging
18:51
Speaker 1: to apply. I can't understand. I get misty, holding your hand?
19:08
Speaker 1: WHOA my word? And then violins begin to play. Might
19:21
Speaker 1: be the sound of yar hello this mute ar? I
19:29
Speaker 1: get misty. The more union you know, play songs like that, gorgeous, gorgeous?
19:47
Speaker 1: How did you start playing piano? Jealousy. My brother had
19:52
Speaker 1: a godmother named Honey Wade, and she loved my brother
19:57
Speaker 1: so much because he was a pretty boy. They called
20:01
Speaker 1: him pretty boy George, and she sent him to music school.
20:05
Speaker 1: But I wasn't very attractive, so nobody would send me
20:09
Speaker 1: music school. My mother and father couldn't afford to. So
20:12
Speaker 1: I would try to mimic my brother, and I would
20:16
Speaker 1: try to play the piano. I couldn't make any harmony,
20:19
Speaker 1: just mashing the key, and you couldn't tell me I
20:23
Speaker 1: wasn't jamming and I had rhythm, and that's how it
20:32
Speaker 1: would sound. So my brother got tired of that and
20:41
Speaker 1: he said, Junior. He called me Junior. He said, look,
20:44
Speaker 1: if you want to make harmonies, so you're not making
20:46
Speaker 1: any harmony. So if you want to make harmony, you
20:48
Speaker 1: gotta spread your fingers out and leave a space in between.
20:54
Speaker 1: Then I heard the harmony. And when I heard the harmony,
20:58
Speaker 1: then I put the rhythm to it. That's how it
21:01
Speaker 1: came out. Oh man, We'll be right back in a
22:17
Speaker 1: moment with more of my conversation with Pastor Tlberrett. We're
22:24
Speaker 1: back with the rest of my conversation with Pastor Tlbert.
22:28
Speaker 1: Is it true you have a distant relation to Reverend cl.
22:32
Speaker 1: Franklin and Areta Franklin. Yes. My daddy told me that
22:38
Speaker 1: he and Reverend Franklin were cousins, and he told me,
22:41
Speaker 1: he said that if you ever get a chance to
22:43
Speaker 1: meet him, mentioned my name. And so one day I
22:49
Speaker 1: was traveling with either Anez Andrews or the Caravans was
22:53
Speaker 1: one of those groups I was traveling with, and they
22:56
Speaker 1: were on the same program with Reverend C. L. Franklin
22:59
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, New York. So after the performances were over,
23:04
Speaker 1: I got a chance to go up to him. I said,
23:07
Speaker 1: Reverend Franklin, I'm TL Barrett from Chicago. And my father
23:10
Speaker 1: told me that if I ever met you, to tell
23:13
Speaker 1: you that he is Tom Barrett. He said, Tom Barrett
23:17
Speaker 1: and he said the town from Mississippi. He said, yeah,
23:20
Speaker 1: he said, asked my cousin man, I said, well, I'm
23:24
Speaker 1: his son. He embraced me, invited me to come to
23:30
Speaker 1: Detroit and preach at his church. I invited him to
23:35
Speaker 1: come and preach at my church in Chicago, and he came,
23:40
Speaker 1: and I went to Detroit and preach at his church,
23:43
Speaker 1: and he loved me so much. His mother jumped on
23:48
Speaker 1: my back while I was preaching. She was so she
23:52
Speaker 1: was full of the Holy Spirit, and we were about
23:55
Speaker 1: to establish a tremendous family relationship. He was going to
24:01
Speaker 1: bring me into meeting with Rita. But shortly after I
24:06
Speaker 1: pre sat his church, there was a break in at
24:08
Speaker 1: his house and he was shot, and he stayed in
24:13
Speaker 1: a coma for six or eight months and never recovered.
24:16
Speaker 1: So I never was able to make that wreck connection
24:20
Speaker 1: with me and Aretha. She had heard about me, but
24:24
Speaker 1: you know, she traveled so much that we never got
24:27
Speaker 1: a chance to connect. She was a wreath by that point, right, Oh, yeah,
24:30
Speaker 1: she was. She was a wreathing. What was the gospel
24:33
Speaker 1: circuit like at that time? It seems like the sixties
24:37
Speaker 1: was a very wonderful time for gospel music. There was
24:41
Speaker 1: a lot going on, very colorful time. I'm curious what
24:45
Speaker 1: that gospel circuit was like in the sixties. I didn't
24:48
Speaker 1: start making records until the mid seventies, but I was
24:53
Speaker 1: privileged to be with some of the gospel singers who
24:57
Speaker 1: were arcing at that time, such as James Cleveland and
25:02
Speaker 1: as Andrews Albertina Walker. So I was able to be
25:07
Speaker 1: around them, but I wasn't really part of that because
25:13
Speaker 1: I was just a young teenager. Then by the time
25:16
Speaker 1: you start making records in the seventies, is the goal
25:19
Speaker 1: only to make music for your congregation and congregations you
25:24
Speaker 1: might visit, or is the goal to bring the music
25:27
Speaker 1: toe a larger audience? Or I mean, is it is
25:30
Speaker 1: the goal musical? Is the goal religious in nature? Or
25:33
Speaker 1: spiritual in nature? The goal was to bring to fruition
25:39
Speaker 1: the promise that I made to those young people. I
25:44
Speaker 1: told them that you could become famous, some of you
25:47
Speaker 1: can become superstars, and you don't have to live within
25:51
Speaker 1: the strictors and the throes of the drug culture. You
25:57
Speaker 1: can be the representatus of God and still make it
26:01
Speaker 1: in that life. And we have some who who have
26:04
Speaker 1: been able to do that. So the goal wasn't necessarily
26:07
Speaker 1: only just to make us for the congregation. No, no,
26:12
Speaker 1: you're okay with success in the music business, larger music business.
26:17
Speaker 1: That was okay with you. And I'm just so grateful
26:23
Speaker 1: to God that my music caught the ear of Rob
26:26
Speaker 1: Severe and Numero Uno, because just to see some of
26:32
Speaker 1: those young people that trusted me, for them to have
26:37
Speaker 1: their children and their grandchildren sit down and listen to
26:41
Speaker 1: recordings that they were children singing on, It's just an
26:46
Speaker 1: awesome reward for me because I told them that this
26:51
Speaker 1: day would happen. I just didn't know when or how,
26:55
Speaker 1: but it is actually happening for people who don't know.
26:58
Speaker 1: You know, your records became very popular after they got
27:03
Speaker 1: re released much later in time. You never DIBt of
27:06
Speaker 1: the songs, your talent never. Wow, how did it feel
27:10
Speaker 1: all those years later? I mean forty years later, Numeral
27:14
Speaker 1: Group hit you up to rerelease your records, and you know,
27:18
Speaker 1: people start rediscovering your music from forty years ago. When
27:22
Speaker 1: when did you first learn that people were finally picking
27:25
Speaker 1: up on your records. I think it was when I
27:29
Speaker 1: received a call from Rob Severa. That's when I really
27:33
Speaker 1: realized that. And then they said, we want to do
27:37
Speaker 1: something with your music. I said, wow, They said, but
27:41
Speaker 1: we need to have you on the contract. So I
27:44
Speaker 1: think I signed a contract for one song. Then it
27:48
Speaker 1: became another album. Then I think I became just their artist.
27:52
Speaker 1: It seems like all those years ago you knew to
27:54
Speaker 1: have faith in your music, but it still must have
27:56
Speaker 1: been surprising, just out of the blue one day you
27:59
Speaker 1: get in this call no No. I have a theology
28:03
Speaker 1: philosophy that says true believers cannot be surprised. You live
28:11
Speaker 1: in expectation instead of agitation. Every time the phone rings,
28:17
Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh, this is the one. But just living
28:20
Speaker 1: in that amount of expectation and believe, is that ever disappointing?
28:24
Speaker 1: Of course it's disappointing man forty years believing something for
28:28
Speaker 1: forty years, of course it can be disappointing. But if
28:32
Speaker 1: you are a true believer, you keep believing. But see,
28:36
Speaker 1: the Bible says faith of that works is dead. So
28:40
Speaker 1: I teach our people pray like you believe it depends
28:43
Speaker 1: on God, but work like you believe it depends on you.
28:46
Speaker 1: That's how you get it to work. Because life is
28:49
Speaker 1: a joint investment adventure between you and God. Given your
28:53
Speaker 1: connections to people like Philip Bailey, Verdine White, Maurice White.
28:58
Speaker 1: You mentioned that Donny Hathaway. At some point it come
29:01
Speaker 1: through your congregation. You're in Chicago, you know where all
29:05
Speaker 1: this great R and B is happening. Did you ever think, well,
29:08
Speaker 1: maybe I won't make gospel music, maybe I'll make R
29:11
Speaker 1: and B. No, because I did not segregate or label
29:18
Speaker 1: my music. I just made music. I mean God's music.
29:23
Speaker 1: God's music is gospel, God's music is secular. Just like
29:28
Speaker 1: I wrote a song that says it goes like this, Oh,
29:32
Speaker 1: I want to be in love with you. Oh, I
29:35
Speaker 1: want to be in love with you. Oh I want
29:38
Speaker 1: to be in love with you. That's what the Lord
29:41
Speaker 1: said to me. Oh, I want to take you by
29:44
Speaker 1: your hand while you're living in this evil ladin. All
29:48
Speaker 1: you need to do is trust me. Now, that same
29:52
Speaker 1: song can be transposed into that's what my man said
29:59
Speaker 1: to me, or that's what my lady said to me.
30:01
Speaker 1: I want to be in love with you. It's the
30:03
Speaker 1: same message I said it long time ago. That's another
30:07
Speaker 1: song that I wrote. I said it a long time ago,
30:12
Speaker 1: said a long time ago, I love you. So now
30:16
Speaker 1: now that can be sung in a nightclub, or it
30:20
Speaker 1: can be sung in church. Because God did say a
30:22
Speaker 1: long time ago, I love you. I told my wife
30:26
Speaker 1: fifty six years ago. We've been married fifty three years.
30:29
Speaker 1: I sing that to her. I said it a long
30:32
Speaker 1: time ago. Then there's a part in the song saying
30:35
Speaker 1: and I am saying the same thing today, the same
30:40
Speaker 1: thing I said a long time ago. I'm saying the
30:41
Speaker 1: same thing today that I'll still make a way. It's
30:45
Speaker 1: not gospel, it's not secular. It's just music. It's God's music.
30:50
Speaker 1: That's one reason when my broadcast was so popular, because
30:55
Speaker 1: I played Earth Winding Fire on my gospel program. The
30:59
Speaker 1: music is very spiritual. Yes, I played keep your Head
31:03
Speaker 1: to the Sky. I played you a shining star. No
31:07
Speaker 1: matter who you are, God sent you here to sign
31:11
Speaker 1: right to see what you can truly be. That's gospel, man,
31:16
Speaker 1: Come on. That was bold enough to play it on
31:18
Speaker 1: my program. And that's why Earth Win and Fight. When
31:21
Speaker 1: they would be traveling, no matter where they were, they
31:23
Speaker 1: would call me early in the morning because they knew
31:26
Speaker 1: I would be playing their music and Donnie Hathaway's music
31:30
Speaker 1: and anybody else who had a message that would uplift mankind,
31:34
Speaker 1: How did you first get the idea to record? Like?
31:36
Speaker 1: Where did that come from? The desire to make a record?
31:40
Speaker 1: So to answer you a question about how did I
31:42
Speaker 1: start writing music? I'm looking around and seeing everybody else
31:47
Speaker 1: is writing and recording music, so I thought it would
31:50
Speaker 1: be good for me to record music too. So I
31:54
Speaker 1: went to Paul Serrano at Soronto Studios and said, man,
31:59
Speaker 1: I want to make some music. I want to make
32:00
Speaker 1: a record. He said, you got some music as a Yeah,
32:03
Speaker 1: he heard my music. He said, man, this is fantastic.
32:06
Speaker 1: So Paul Santo at P and S Studios record to
32:09
Speaker 1: us and we started shopping it around. Stax Records picked
32:12
Speaker 1: us up and signed me to a contract. And where
32:17
Speaker 1: did the songs on the first record come from? When
32:20
Speaker 1: you hadn't made a record yet, you get the idea,
32:22
Speaker 1: you go to the studio. I was just writing songs,
32:25
Speaker 1: and I just recorded some of those songs that I wrote.
32:28
Speaker 1: How long have those songs been around? Older than you are?
32:32
Speaker 1: I'm telling you these songs, either the ones that I
32:35
Speaker 1: wrote or rearranged. The ones that I rearranged have been
32:38
Speaker 1: around for millennia. But the ones that I wrote, I
32:42
Speaker 1: wrote them in the late sixties and early seventies with
32:45
Speaker 1: the goal of putting them on the record. Or was
32:47
Speaker 1: this just I was just writing? But then when I
32:50
Speaker 1: decided that I should record too, then I started selecting
32:55
Speaker 1: the songs that I wanted to go on the records. Wow,
33:00
Speaker 1: are you still writing songs today? Yes, when I feel
33:03
Speaker 1: like it, I write more. I write sermons and thoughts
33:07
Speaker 1: for the day, just things that make you think that's
33:11
Speaker 1: beautiful man. Yeah, so that's what I write now. I
33:15
Speaker 1: write sermons, I write thoughts for the day, and you
33:18
Speaker 1: can put some of those sermons to music. But that's
33:20
Speaker 1: my main focus is writing. I write right, right, right
33:24
Speaker 1: all the time. Do you put some of those thoughts
33:26
Speaker 1: to music. Yes? When's the last time you put something
33:28
Speaker 1: new you wrote down to music? When's the last time
33:31
Speaker 1: that happened. I think it was Sunday because I wrote
33:34
Speaker 1: the thought that says, let's think deeper before we sink deeper.
33:42
Speaker 1: So we're writing a song around that. Would you mind
33:46
Speaker 1: showing us how you might work one of your thoughts
33:50
Speaker 1: that you have, like think deeper before you sink deeper,
33:53
Speaker 1: how you might work that into some music. Okay, let's
33:57
Speaker 1: sing you better sink deeper before you sink deeper. You
34:25
Speaker 1: might be able to keeper if you think deeper, not
34:37
Speaker 1: make up weaker. It's up to you. Sink deeper before
34:51
Speaker 1: you sink deeper. Stuff like that. Oh man, that's wonderful.
35:01
Speaker 1: I discovered your music, like a lot of people, through
35:04
Speaker 1: the algorithm of streaming services like Spotify, So I got
35:08
Speaker 1: to your music fell in love with it right away.
35:10
Speaker 1: There was just something different in it that I hadn't
35:12
Speaker 1: heard in a lot of gospel music. I loved it
35:14
Speaker 1: this collection that Numeral Group put together that it was
35:18
Speaker 1: the first time I've heard you're preaching. Oh, it's the
35:20
Speaker 1: first time I've ever heard it, and I'm glad it's
35:23
Speaker 1: going to be on streaming now because it's really interesting
35:25
Speaker 1: and one of the sermons, how would you like to
35:28
Speaker 1: have a nice Hawaiian punch is the title of it.
35:31
Speaker 1: I mean, I was surprised by the fact that you
35:33
Speaker 1: were not afraid to be political, and really at the
35:39
Speaker 1: local level. I mean, you were talking about getting people
35:42
Speaker 1: that you should be registered to vote and hold politicians
35:45
Speaker 1: to account. And I'm curious, especially when I speak with
35:49
Speaker 1: older black folk who were around lived through the Civil
35:52
Speaker 1: rights movement and all that sort of thing. It feels
35:54
Speaker 1: like it must have been impossible not to be invested
35:57
Speaker 1: in politics. But rarely did I hear in that day
36:01
Speaker 1: sermons and be with that kind of politics, unless we're
36:04
Speaker 1: talking about doctor King. I suppose, well, you're seeing I
36:07
Speaker 1: had the good fortune to be considered unfortunate, not having
36:14
Speaker 1: either parent. Just being out here on my own at
36:18
Speaker 1: sixteen years of age, I had a chance to see
36:23
Speaker 1: what actually makes the world go around. I actually got
36:26
Speaker 1: a chance to see that politics plays a great part
36:31
Speaker 1: in the living conditions of our people. And the only
36:36
Speaker 1: thing that would change that would be political change. And
36:43
Speaker 1: so I challenge my people to don't just join the church,
36:46
Speaker 1: but join your civic organizations as well. I said, in
36:50
Speaker 1: order to be a member of life in the church,
36:52
Speaker 1: you have to have a voter registration card as well
36:55
Speaker 1: as a membership card, and you got to be an
36:57
Speaker 1: active voter. I do not want you to be a
37:01
Speaker 1: member of this church and whatever the wind blows your way,
37:06
Speaker 1: you're satisfied with join another church. I want people who
37:10
Speaker 1: actively participate in the building of their own communities. When
37:17
Speaker 1: we got ready to build our church, our people wanted
37:21
Speaker 1: to go out into the suburbs. Let's buy a church
37:24
Speaker 1: out there. I said, no, let's build our own church
37:27
Speaker 1: in the community, and we chose fifty fifth. In Indiana,
37:33
Speaker 1: this area was called the Whole, not who l E
37:39
Speaker 1: h l E Whole. It was the worst crime area
37:45
Speaker 1: in the city of Chicago. We built our church to
37:50
Speaker 1: look like a palace, and I call it the Palace
37:54
Speaker 1: in the midst of Malice. That's what we did in
37:58
Speaker 1: eighty two, and now in two and twenty one, it
38:02
Speaker 1: is the most enviable community to live in. People are
38:08
Speaker 1: coming back to the community. The Barack Obama Library is
38:14
Speaker 1: built in proximity to our community. This is one of
38:18
Speaker 1: the most enviable communities in the city of Chicago now
38:23
Speaker 1: because we stayed here, we built the Cleo Center here.
38:30
Speaker 1: Cleo is named after my daughter who was taken from
38:33
Speaker 1: us thirteen years ago by domestic violence in our own community.
38:40
Speaker 1: And her name was spelled with the kse. My wife's
38:42
Speaker 1: name is spelled with the sea, and so Cleo Stance
38:44
Speaker 1: will keep loving each other. That's what she would want
38:47
Speaker 1: us to do. And then my son led the community
38:51
Speaker 1: and building a residence, the Cleo Resident Building, the first
38:58
Speaker 1: totally green building in the city of Chicago. This community
39:04
Speaker 1: is a beautiful community now because somebody stayed, not just
39:10
Speaker 1: we stayed and we worked and we're still working to
39:14
Speaker 1: make this a better community. Man. That's great. Thank you
39:18
Speaker 1: so much, Pastor Barrett. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.
39:21
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks a Pastor Teale Barrett for taking us
39:27
Speaker 1: to church today and sharing God's good word. You can
39:30
Speaker 1: check out a playlist of Teale Barrett's new box set
39:33
Speaker 1: at broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe
39:36
Speaker 1: to our YouTube at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast,
39:40
Speaker 1: where you can find all of our newed episodes. You
39:43
Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
39:46
Speaker 1: is produced with helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez,
39:50
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering health from Nick Chafee.
39:54
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Miila bat Broken Record is production
39:58
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Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast. That all Right, The
40:18
Speaker 1: Music for a kind of Beats. I'm Justin and Richmond