Latest / Soul Salon with Ayandastood / Your SENSES are gateways to your soul — the tantric path to presence and POWER

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Your SENSES are gateways to your soul — the tantric path to presence and POWER · Soul Salon with Ayandastood

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  One of those high voltage sensations is fear.
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  We're really interested in tantra about...
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  And so there was this kind of congestion of emotion, I think.
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  What comes through to you when you hear this word?
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  Sensual.
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  One of the most common blocks to sensuality,
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  which comes up as shame,
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  antidote to shame,
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  is how you're expressing your purpose on earth.
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  What were some of the fears that you were invited to face, to confront?
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  Creating experiences in particular, like creating these sandcastles in time.
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  So they exist for a particular moment and then they're swept away.
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  But what remains is the feeling.
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  Sensations are your sacred messengers.
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  Listen.
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  It's very much in the polarity of sensuality.
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  So sensuality for me is, what does the soul mean to you?
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  When I think of what the soul means to me, I think...
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  Sensual.
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  What comes through to you when you hear this word?
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  It makes me want to go, mmm, and ah.
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  And what is the connection between sensuality, tantra, sexuality,
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  and spirituality on one hand, and on the other hand, colonialism, patriarchy, and internalized
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  shame.
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  I am so honored to have the divine and delightful Henneka Patel with us today
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  in the Soul Salon.
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  It feels like such a gift and a vision come true to learn from such an embodied,
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  expressed and magnificent manifestation of what it looks like to channel your purpose
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  into the collective.
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  Henneke is the author of this gorgeous book, Sensual, Connect Deeply,
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  Express Freely, Love Intimately, all things that I would love to do and that we would love to do
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  through you, and the founder and mother of the School of Sensual Arts.
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  I want to live in a world
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  where there is a school of sensual arts.
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  An international author, speaker, coach,
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  a yoga practitioner, and someone who is here to guide us into lovingly and appreciatively
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  approaching the divine arts of yoga, of tantra, and so much more.
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  Henneke, it is such an honor
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  to welcome you to the Soul Salon.
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  Thank you.
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  Thank you so much.
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  What a beautiful introduction.
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  Wow.
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  I'm so honored to have you I wanted to underline every single word of your book and it also felt
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  so divine because I love Sahara Rose so it just felt like the universe was sending so many signs
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  through your beautiful beautiful work the first question that I would love to ask you in the soul
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  salon is what does the soul mean to you beautiful question um when I think of what the soul means
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  to me I think of a particular part of the tantra philosophy which sees the body in these different
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  layers and they're called the koshas and I think where we might live in our day-to-day in probably
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  the first three layers which are the physical the emotional or energetic and the mental our thoughts
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  the soul is actually in tantra philosophy the very core most part of those layers which is
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  called Ananda Maya.
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  And so there is this belief that at our very core, we are Ananda, which is
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  bliss.
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  And it's a kind of bliss, which is everlasting.
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  It's our very nature, our very
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  essence that these practices invite us back into time and time again.
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  So I think for me,
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  that's where soul is, that's where it lives.
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  And yeah, that's where I'm always trying to kind of
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  of yeah remember that through all the different layers that come up in the day like this is here
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  always wow it is so beautiful to hear you say that because i've never actually heard the soul
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  described as this bliss or this possibility and i love how you write about this playful energy
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  and so i love that you've already taken us to tantra and i'd love to start because there's
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  so many misconceptions with asking what is tantra you know just before we go deeper into your soul
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  um i know that a lot of us hold misunderstandings about what it is so i'd love to just start there
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  as well yeah it's a great place to start because tantra is misunderstood across the board so
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  in the west it's commonly known as sex and in the east it's commonly known as black magic and so
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  kind of across the board there is huge misunderstandings uh my i have many translations
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  I'll probably share with you over the course of this conversation.
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  But one of the translations
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  that I love is that tantra is a device to expand.
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  So tan means to expand and tra means an instrument.
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  So tantra is essentially a system which invites us to expand our consciousness and our awareness.
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  And it's very much a system of living life as the meditation.
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  So whereas compared to the yoga
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  path, which is a little bit more popular and well known.
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  Tantra is the kind of sister science,
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  the kind of rebellious sister science that's less about the ascetic life or renouncing the material
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  life and going in a cave to meditate.
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  It's more about finding that the divine exists within
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  the everyday moments through the senses, through sensuality, through connection,
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  through your breath, through conversations like this.
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  Hmm.
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  Wow.
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  That was so magical to hear you walk us into this world.
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  Like you opened this
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  magical door that we've probably entered through doors that were not really honoring the divinity
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  of what Tantra is sometimes, as you mentioned.
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  And so what you shared about the instrument of
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  expansion, I just love thinking of this instrument when we think of guitar and piano and drums and
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  this instrument to help us expand and what you said about connecting to the divine through this
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  body through this moment rather than renouncing and we're often taught about mindfulness and
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  all those aspects so to that point what do you feel makes tantra such a unique spiritual tradition
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  i think it's a very unique spiritual tradition because of its rooting in reality as it is
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  and part of that reality is all the messy parts of being human.
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  So rather than saying this is right,
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  this is wrong, this will get you somewhere in the afterlife, this will get you somewhere else,
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  it's saying this is all divine play, it's right here.
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  So if we can be with even the stickiest,
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  messiest parts of humanity and still see the divine in them, then I feel like it's quite
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  it's quite a unique path in that way and I think that's why it got kind of conflated with sex
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  because there aren't many spiritual paths which honor sex as a natural part of life and so I think
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  that's the part which like yoga has been cherry-picked for stretching tantra was cherry-picked
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  for sex because it's such an unusual way to find spirit and it's not the only way it's just one of
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  the most encompassing ways, I think, in the variety of spiritual paths that we have that
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  acknowledges it and honors it as a pathway.
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  Wow.
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  When you said rooted in this reality,
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  I mean, that is so sacred, not labeling, as you said, this is right, this is wrong,
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  being present to all of life.
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  And I love how beautifully you write about, you know, the sunset,
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  the taste of fruit.
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  I'm just now also adding what I received from your divine work.
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  But
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  this idea that this being right here is the portal to the divine is so beautiful.
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  And I love that you
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  take us there and remind us that we get to be in divine connection with all of it.
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  And so I think
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  that's just so beautiful.
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  I love also what you said about how tantra is often conflated with sex
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  and something that you speak about in a way that I haven't quite heard other people speak about
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  is your understanding of what it means to appropriate something versus appreciate something
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  and I'd love for us to go there as well because I know that it is something that those of us who
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  are drawn to these practices do want to be mindful of especially people in the soul salon
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  we would love to be appreciators of this divine wisdom rather than appropriators
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  yeah I love this topic because I think as someone growing up in the Indian tradition
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  and my father was a monk I grew up with a lot of these practices at home so although I rediscovered
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  what tantra meant for me later on in my life when the call came to really steepen and deepen into it
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  I walked around the kind of wellness I'm not even sure about the word wellness but the wellness
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  world, kind of seeing tantra misused, I think, in terms of the way that it had been commercialized.
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  And often things that say that tantra are not, they're just kind of banded onto there for a
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  commercial reason.
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  And I think, for me, the distinguishment between whether something is
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  tantra or not goes back to the definition, is this offering us a path to expand our awareness
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  unconsciousness and if it isn't there's a lot of things out there that will invite us to kind of
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  expand sensation or sensuality or sexuality but is there that part in that path that invites us
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  back into awareness and I think that's often the missing part so I think for anyone who's listening
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  who's thinking how do I be on the side that is appreciation rather than appropriation it's um
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  And yeah, it's having that inquiry if you are taking a class or a workshop or if you're reading about it, kind of really coming back to what part of me is growing in awareness?
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  What part of me is coming back to soul as I do this?
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  Or am I steeping here in just the sensation?
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  I feel so moved by the connection to this definition that we now have a way to
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  connect with the deeper integrity of the practice of is this an instrument for expansion and
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  is this helping me to return to my awareness to consciousness it's such a beautiful
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  reminder because sometimes we do need like that drisdy to come back to and say okay
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  does this allow me to expand or am I being marketed or sold something that or packaged
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  something that isn't really in integrity with this practice and something that's moving through me
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  in this moment as we have this conversation is as you know before this there's an interview guide
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  and you know you have this plan of how things are going to unfold and part of my sort of in a
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  critic mind is like oh will she think that you know I'm not following the exact structure and
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  It's like this is the invitation to be alive to what is right here and to be with the nerves
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  and be with the presence and the beauty of what gets to be in this moment between us.
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  And so it's also inviting me to embody what you are saying in the moment because we are
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  so in our minds.
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  And so I am curious for the listener who is so habituated because of the systems we live
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  in to living from the mind and intellectualizing and being this voice of criticism and is
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  feeling disconnected from the sense of play and the present moment and the tantra and the
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  invitation to expand at every moment, the bliss layer, what would you say to them or offer them?
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  Yeah, so there was one layer that I didn't mention in all of those.
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  I'm going to speak to that part
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  now.
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  So the physical layer, the emotional or energetic layer, the mind layer, where a lot of us
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  are educated in and rewarded in in the societies that we live in so no wonder a lot of us live in
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  that that thought system where we feel I am this thought or that thought drags us into or away from
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  presence rather than into soul or into presence so there's one layer between the anandamaya the
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  bliss nature the soul nature and the mind and all those other ones and it's called vinyaya maya
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  and it means the witnessing presence or the witnessing layer the one that is able to
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  witness the thoughts witness the emotions witness the body and then provide a gateway to
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  ananda because it's so easy to get dragged into those outer parts of our human experience
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  and this by staying in that kind of um the one that's able to witness them it actually allows
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  us that inwards trajectory to, well, the space where time collapses, you know, that space that
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  is an everlasting soul nature or bliss.
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  So in a practical sense, I think I would say for anyone
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  who is in their mind or feeling that they are dragged into their thoughts is even to have a
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  shift in the words of when you're experiencing the thought, imagine you're stepping onto a path and
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  you're watching that thought um or you sometimes hear that analogy of kind of watching a thought
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  pass like a car or watching it pass like a cloud and therefore you become the witness of it rather
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  than i am anger or i am sadness i am stressed it's there is stress there there is anger there
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  um i see that there is sadness here but who is i i is the witnessing self i is the soul
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  but who is I I is the witnessing self I is the soul oh the witnessing self even that word there's
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  something that I receive so powerfully from the word witness and what it means to be a witness
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  to ourselves and especially a loving and kind witness to ourselves compassionate witness because
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  we're so often such harsh witnesses.
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  So the invitation to be a witness on the path of the
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  feeling of the thought and not allow ourselves to overly identify it with it is so stunning.
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  Let's take a moment to breathe with that.
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  These layers you're sharing are so helpful.
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  I would love to
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  zoom out a little bit to understand what what they are so i think you named them as are they
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  called the koshas yes okay and then can you walk us through the the five once more just for anyone
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  who is trying to sink their their heart into this wisdom let's revisit so we have the outer lane a
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  nice way to imagine this if you're listening to it it's kind of like the metrica doll you know
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  the ones that stack one inside another so the outermost layer is that bit that you pick up and
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  you hold so you can feel it it's tangible it's the body it's your bones it's everything here that
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  is manifest and it's known as anamaya kosha then we go inside the layer inside of that is called
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  the prana maya kosha and prana means the energy body so the energy body is the circuit within
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  our system that is made up of nadis or rivers that carry the flow of our energy and this is
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  where our emotions live so this is where you'll feel oh i am feeling tired or i am feeling excited
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  or i am feeling uh sensual i'm feeling stressed it's in this layer and then the inner side of
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  that is the mano maya gosha so man meaning the mind and this is where we'll experience that
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  thought body and then we step into the vinyaya maya the witnessing self that witnesses all of
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  those layers.
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  And at the very core, our core nature is Ananda Maya Bliss.
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  And when we experience
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  something in our life, it may affect us in one of these different layers.
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  So we may have experienced
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  something when we were younger that we might not remember tangibly.
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  So it's not there in thought
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  matter, but maybe the energy body has remembered it, or maybe the physical body is remembering it,
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  or vice versa.
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  There may be something from our family or cultural lineage that we have within
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  our body that's there in the mind layer or the energetic layer that may be manifesting now in
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  the physical layer.
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  And so it's really holistic system in that in rather than treating the symptom
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  which may be appearing in the physical layer, we're really interested in where has this come
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  from where what is the cause of this and so we have this quite kind of multi-layered way of
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  approaching um healing as well yeah wow oh oh my word my inner student is like oh i want to take
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  notes oh my word that is so delightful oh okay incredible i love the image of the the dolls the
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  i don't know the metrica dolls yes yes the russian dolls um i don't know if we're maybe not supposed
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  to call them that anymore um but i love that image because it's very clear so each person i'm just
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  going to try to relay what I'm hearing and then you can correct or add to anything that I'm
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  I'm saying because I'm really loving learning this so we all have these five layers of of of
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  self of yes so we have our physical body that's this outer layer I'm gonna I think it's the
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  Anamaya Kosha okay perfect and so this is what we can feel and I love this is like the body keeping
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  the score of us, but it actually could be in any of these layers or all of them.
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  Okay.
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  So that's
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  wonderful.
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  And then we have the energy layer and it's so wonderful how these ancient wisdom,
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  like this ancient, is it Vedic wisdom?
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  Knows what is only now being acknowledged in the West is so
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  beautiful.
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  So we have this energy layer, the energetic feelings and how we feel.
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  Is that
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  correct?
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  Or was it okay?
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  Wonderful.
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  I love what you said about carrying the rivers, the circuitry
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  of ourselves.
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  We have the mental layer, which many of us are very familiar with, the thoughts
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  and the thought body.
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  And then we have this witnessing layer, which is the gateway to this
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  bliss layer, which is so wonderful because it reminds me of the child.
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  So how would you then say
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  the child and the child spirit is here to guide us?
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  Yeah.
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  So a lovely concept that exists in
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  tantra is that everything here that I described, like divinity is right here.
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  And it says that
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  this divinity is lila, which means play.
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  So why is the reality here as it is manifesting the way
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  it is?
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  Simply because it desires to play.
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  So it says that consciousness splits itself.
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  So it gives
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  us the mythology of Shiva and Shakti.
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  So Shiva is seen as this kind of cosmic yogi and Shakti is
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  seen as his cosmic lover.
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  Shakti is that which is manifest here on earth and Shiva is that which is
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  unmanifest, so the one that is witnessing.
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  And Shakti and Shiva are seen as this cosmic couple
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  that are in lila, in cosmic play, in order to know one another.
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  So they split actually in order
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  to understand one another.
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  And I think that's why Tantra again is also so helpful for understanding
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  the split parts of ourselves.
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  And the pathway back to understanding is going into that place.
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  So sometimes when things don't go right in our lives, I find so much soothing in saying,
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  oh there's that lila again there's that divine play having its way with me
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  and kind of bringing the humor and the light to things don't always go the way that your mind
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  wants them to go sometimes there's this splitting in order for you to understand yourself even deeper
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  oh my word i get chills hearing you say that they split in order to understand one another
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  that resonates with me so deeply.
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  Wow, I love this so much.
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  And when you mentioned Shakti and Shiva,
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  similarly to what we said about Tantra,
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  are there any misconceptions about Shakti
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  that you would like to remind us of
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  or bring us to, to be aware of?
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  Yes, please.
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  Yay!
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  Yes, please.
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  I spend most of my time demystifying Tantra
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  into all the concepts because there's so much.
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  It's kind of, you know,
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  when you speak another language,
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  there are some concepts and words
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  that just simply don't have a direct translation in another language.
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  And I think Shiva and Shakti pertain to this.
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  So Shakti is sometimes mistranslated as divine feminine.
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  And I say mistranslated because I feel that the word feminine
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  has its own prescription as to what that means
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  in the contemporary worlds that we live in.
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  So in a lot of modern Tantra practices,
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  connecting with Shakti might mean becoming more soft or surrender
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  or I don't know, whatever you think that femininity means to you.
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  But if we actually take another translation of it,
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  Shakti is all that is manifest.
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  So Shakti is energy itself.
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  Shakti is everything that we tangibly feel, see, touch, smell, taste.
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  Shakti is the storms and the seas.
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  It's your anger.
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  It's your wild primal sensuality and sexuality.
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  Shakti is your power it is everything and so how can we contain Shakti in the box of
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  divine feminine when Shakti is all all that is manifest that is waiting yearning to be seen
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  like a lover by consciousness by your awareness
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  wow shakti is all that is manifest i love how you're reminding us not to reduce it to this
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  and exactly what you said because even as people try to say feminine and masculine are not about
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  gender we we carry these conceptions as you mentioned about what it means to be feminine
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  or masculine so thank you so much for for reminding us that and we have this when even
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  when you went Shakti is everything I felt this energy rising within me from your sort of deep
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  connection to the Shakti of everything transferred and I hope the people and the who are watching or
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  listening received that as you tapped into your own this divine wisdom that you returned to what
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  has being in touch with Shakti and Shiva what has it offered you or changed within you I think I was
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  walking around my training is actually law so I studied English law and French law two systems
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  two cultures two languages there's already a splitting there and not only was there that
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  splitting but there was an extreme splitting from the mind to the body and the emotions what are they
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  so for me re-encountering the path of tantra re-exploring some of these traditions that i
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  grew up with but now learning in a space in a body in a mind that was completely
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  in opposite directions to one another it provided me this loom and that's the second translation
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  i'd like to offer you of tantra that tantra is a loom a device which weaves together the
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  different threads of our human experience.
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  So that could be those five layers, but it could also be
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  the experiences that we have acknowledged and processed.
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  It could also be the experiences
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  that are laying somewhere in, you know, the unconscious that are just manifesting absolutely
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  in the physical, the emotional, the mental, but outside of our awareness.
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  So for me, Tantra has
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  really offered me this path of meeting that lover within of awareness shiva meeting all of those
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  parts that i i feared to look at and saying it's okay to be here i see you i witness you
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  and that has been one of the most profound things i have received from from this experience
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  the kind of acceptance of the messiness of being human and that all is here and all is lila
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  all is play if you feel called to share what were because I think we can all relate to having parts
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  of ourselves we're afraid to look at we've been conditioned to be afraid of or to judge within
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  ourselves what were some of the parts within you that you were afraid to look at you mentioned the
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  emotions that you pushed to the side and so I'm just curious if you feel called to share what
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  your specific journey with that was yeah I had such a heart and a body filled with grief so
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  So between the ages of 10 to 14, four people very close to me in my family passed away.
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  And it was kind of one after another to the point that the first one, I hadn't even processed that one by the time the fourth one had come around.
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  So hence this kind of escaping into the mind, which, well, the society really rewards the mind.
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  So I'll just stay here.
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  um and so for me the piece that i was running from or unable to witness because the velocity
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  of the sensation was so high in my body was grief and so the practices because they are
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  mind and body based practices of presence first they invited me into the presence of
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  all this stuff that was underneath the surface and i had to feel those things in order to weave
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  them in you know the the parts of us that um are there but maybe have not been felt or acknowledged
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  or seen and it might be from ourselves or it might be that we see them but maybe they haven't been
• 26:56
  seen by those around us or at least acknowledged and i so yeah i feel that grief was very much
• 27:04
  the piece that i had to work with but i see you know within my work and and the world at the
• 27:09
  School of Essential Arts, all types of experiences that long to be seen and known, you know.
• 27:15
  And I think it's one of the biggest gifts, at least if we can sit with those parts of
• 27:20
  ourselves, then, yeah, they have at least an opportunity to have that looming process
• 27:26
  within ourselves that if they're here and they're present, then we experience rather
• 27:32
  than the kind of castration of of life we have actually this wholeness this weaving together
• 27:40
  coming back to thank you so much for sharing that part of your loom and so much love to your inner
• 27:47
  child to all the layers of your being facing that early grief and also now we at least have a bit
• 27:53
  more language and more access to teachers like you who can guide us to feel that it's safe to
• 27:59
  explore these things when it feels so unsafe.
• 28:02
  And so dealing with those or being invited to
• 28:07
  your heart breaking at such a young age, you know, that is something that I know is going to help so
• 28:11
  many people feel so seen.
• 28:13
  What do you wish happened from this community around you or in our society
• 28:18
  when you did experience those early experiences of grief or death that didn't happen?
• 28:24
  What would
• 28:24
  you you know say to your inner child now that you've learned yeah there is interesting there's
• 28:30
  this thing there's this concept in the indian culture that i was growing up in where although
• 28:37
  there is actually a lot of ritual around death we have 13 days of sitting before the funeral
• 28:43
  there's a lot of like mantras and meditation so there's a lot of actually being with the process
• 28:48
  of death.
• 28:50
  But there's this phrase that's like, don't cry.
• 28:53
  Like you're not allowed to cry.
• 28:56
  You're
• 28:56
  not allowed to be seen crying.
• 28:58
  And so there was this kind of congestion of emotion, I think,
• 29:02
  from that time of like, that's all I wanted to do, you know.
• 29:06
  So I would say to my inner child,
• 29:08
  cry, my beloved, cry.
• 29:11
  It's okay.
• 29:12
  It's okay.
• 29:14
  And part of the process was reclaiming some of those
• 29:17
  tears you know and allowing them to be here and kind of realizing that that was something that I
• 29:24
  heard but that it's not mine you know and I think when we kind of retrace our steps as to well I
• 29:31
  think this but where where did I get this thought from when you when you're witnessing the thought
• 29:37
  it's like but I'm not that thought so where did it come from and so I retraced it back to this
• 29:43
  yeah this this conception that the tears don't allow the soul that is passing into the next
• 29:50
  life or body to transition so there's this kind of guilt associated with that process
• 29:57
  um yeah so I'd say this cry cry cry my beloved that is so such you have such a gorgeous way of
• 30:06
  expressing through language thank you for sharing that I know that that's going to help so many
• 30:10
  people who are maybe blocking those tears or feeling the sense of not being deserving or
• 30:17
  not feeling safe to explore the sacred tears that we have.
• 30:21
  And I think there are many depictions
• 30:23
  in different ancient traditions of tears flowing into rivers.
• 30:27
  I think that that's just coming to
• 30:29
  me.
• 30:29
  So thank you for sharing that.
• 30:31
  And we are echoing that to all of your past selves and all
• 30:36
  of our future selves that it's so safe to cry and it's so sacred to express.
• 30:42
  Take a moment to be
• 30:43
  with this moment.
• 30:51
  Something that's really resonating with me as you speak is this idea
• 30:55
  of they split in order to know each other.
• 30:59
  Can you say more about this, especially in the context
• 31:01
  of the way that the divine feminine and masculine are being spoken about.
• 31:06
  So, okay.
• 31:07
  So something that is really staying with me is this idea of the two sides of us
• 31:11
  splitting in order to know each other better.
• 31:14
  In moments where we are feeling like, oh,
• 31:16
  I don't get to be this and this, or we're feeling this inner, they call it a tug of war.
• 31:22
  How would you invite us to reframe that experience of feeling split?
• 31:28
  I think it's moving from this or that to this and that.
• 31:33
  And I know it's a very simple three-letter word and and switching it for or.
• 31:40
  But yeah, again, it's this idea that if we go back to that idea of that device which weaves threads together rather than those threads being kind of loose and like floating in different directions, that actually they can coexist at the same time.
• 31:53
  and I'll give an example of this.
• 31:55
  I think a lot in the spiritual world there is this idea
• 32:00
  that you can be this but you can't be that if you're spiritual.
• 32:04
  So you can be spiritual but
• 32:07
  you can't be wealthy or you can walk the spiritual path but you can't have ambition or
• 32:14
  you can be spiritual but you can't be sexy you know these kind of ideas that that seem separate
• 32:24
  and what tantra would invite us to do is switch that all for the and when i first did some of my
• 32:31
  own training in the yogic system i began splitting so before i kind of came back to tantra my path
• 32:39
  was in yoga and I was finding that there was a lot of, and it's for a reason, it's the reason is that
• 32:47
  the yogic system is designed for the disciple.
• 32:50
  It's designed for the one who goes into the system
• 32:54
  to eventually renounce the material world.
• 32:57
  So let's say, for example, there is a concept called
• 32:59
  pramajarya, which means abstaining from sex, abstaining from accessing your sexual energy
• 33:08
  because it's seen as an impediment to spiritual growth.
• 33:13
  So then now there's actually a part of me that I'm saying,
• 33:16
  you're not allowed to be here.
• 33:17
  I'm walking on this path.
• 33:19
  And that wasn't very helpful for me living in a body that was very numb already
• 33:23
  and already completely split apart because it was just creating even more fragments.
• 33:28
  And so I think tantra really helped me to say,
• 33:33
  well this can exist and this can exist with the quality of awareness and that's the distinguishing
• 33:41
  factor so I can walk the spiritual path and I can have ambition and I can connect to my sexuality
• 33:48
  and my sensuality if with that quality of awareness and I think that's how it steeps us
• 33:54
  in this reality as it is the and because all of it is divine play so how can I say this is and
• 34:02
  isn't.
• 34:06
  So the and is how the loom also gets to weave together.
• 34:10
  I love how you said the difference
• 34:11
  between the integration, the holistic self, which becomes possible through awareness versus
• 34:17
  fragmenting and losing pieces of ourselves.
• 34:21
  And you mentioned your experience with going down the
• 34:24
  yogic path.
• 34:25
  And I'm curious your view on how both colonialism and also patriarchy then impact how we
• 34:35
  experience each of these traditions and experience our own sensuality, sexuality.
• 34:40
  It's a very big
• 34:40
  topic, but I know that we mentioned appropriation and all these themes and just wanting to name
• 34:45
  the sort of history of where some of the shame is coming from.
• 34:49
  Yeah.
• 34:50
  Let's start with patriarchy and then we'll come to colonialism because I feel like that
• 34:54
  They're two big, big subjects that deserve their own little piece.
• 34:58
  So let's start with the patriarchy.
• 35:02
  So tantra came around in 6th century India.
• 35:06
  And it came around in this time where the only people who could practice and share spiritual discourse and rituals
• 35:16
  would have been those who belonged to the Brahmin caste.
• 35:19
  So they were the most elevated in society.
• 35:23
  you had to be born into that caste and you had to be born a man.
• 35:28
  So when tantra came around, it actually was created from the outskirts of society.
• 35:33
  Those who were avarna, which means they didn't even belong in any of the caste systems,
• 35:38
  like they weren't in any of the rungs of the tiers.
• 35:41
  So they lived on the outsides of the society and they were often quite feared
• 35:47
  feared because the city dwellers didn't really know what happens on the outsides of society.
• 35:54
  And so what Tantra did as a counterculture to the mainstream religion that happened at the time,
• 36:00
  because Tantra is not a religion in itself, it has some threads because of where it was born
• 36:07
  that are similar or like deities, for example, that you might find in Hinduism,
• 36:13
  but the way of practicing it is very different.
• 36:15
  So you could be an atheist and be tantric,
• 36:18
  you could be Christian and be tantric, you could be Muslim or Jewish or Buddhist and be tantric.
• 36:23
  But what it really did was turn this idea of gender on its head.
• 36:28
  So it put goddesses at the
• 36:30
  forefront of the tradition.
• 36:33
  And by putting goddesses at the forefront of the tradition,
• 36:36
  it said that actually those who are female can have not only access to these teachings,
• 36:45
  but are naturally bestowed the gift of being able to share these practices.
• 36:51
  So I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't for the tantric path.
• 36:57
  In my wedding, I actually, instead of having a male priest,
• 37:01
  I was the first person in my family lineage to bring in a female priest
• 37:05
  because tantra says this it says that why why hold it in the palms of only a few why could only
• 37:12
  a few people listen to spiritual teachings um and so it did this big thing of turning the gender
• 37:20
  inequality on its head so that's the first thing and i think um the third and last translation
• 37:28
  that I'll share of Tantra is that it's a technology.
• 37:32
  So it works to un-repress what is repressed in society.
• 37:37
  So at that time in the 6th century, and probably still now,
• 37:41
  it turned that caste system and the gender imbalance on its head.
• 37:46
  And I'll come back to the technology a little bit later
• 37:49
  because I'm going to move to colonialism now.
• 37:52
  So also then in the colonial aspects of this system,
• 37:58
  So India, like many lands, is a land rich in culture and arts and dance.
• 38:06
  And the sacred was seen to live in the dancing hips of the temple dancers.
• 38:14
  And each temple, and if you go to India today or even a temple in London,
• 38:18
  you will see that there are these asparas, like these kind of spiritual divine beings that are half naked.
• 38:26
  and you wonder you know I always wondered when I went into the temple as a child like
• 38:32
  why and now I know people would go to the temple to witness the divine dance of temple dancers
• 38:41
  and they would sit with a question they had in their hearts witness the dance and receive
• 38:47
  from the dance their answers each family particularly of a particular prestige would
• 38:55
  have their own courtesan.
• 38:57
  So this courtesan would be of a very, very highly esteemed reputation.
• 39:04
  They would be very well trained in the arts and poetry and singing and dance and languages.
• 39:11
  And they would kind of have the ear of the most powerful in society.
• 39:15
  So they were seen as very,
• 39:18
  they were painted into the pictures of the Maharajas, like the royalty.
• 39:22
  So when colonialism
• 39:25
  came in, a lot of the practices that were happening at this time in India, the courtesan culture,
• 39:31
  the tantric system, which had these goddesses that lived in the cremation grounds,
• 39:38
  these practices that stemmed from the texts and sutras on love and sex and relating,
• 39:45
  this was seen completely as boisterous.
• 39:49
  How could something like this, these people are savages,
• 39:53
  And so much of the arts and the divinity that was found through those beautiful dancing hips were cut and the courtesans were removed from their positions as esteemed members of society and put down into the lights, the red lights.
• 40:17
  so there's this kind of cutting and amputation of a lot of the traditional art systems that
• 40:23
  were connected with divinity through the process of colonialism um so those that's kind of the
• 40:30
  history of both and i think i'm not sure if i can't even remember what the question was but
• 40:35
  that's what i have to share about patriarchy and colonialism wow that was pure brilliance
• 40:42
  Oh, my word.
• 40:42
  And the way you seamlessly weave in the three definitions of tantra.
• 40:46
  I'm like, oh, my goodness, we are so lucky that you answered the calling when it called.
• 40:50
  This is it's such a gift to learn from you.
• 40:52
  Wow.
• 40:53
  Okay.
• 40:53
  So what you shared about I'll just go in the order you shared just to ask questions and reflect back.
• 40:59
  So the patriarchy side, reading about this revolutionary beginnings of Tantra, I was so astonished.
• 41:06
  I was like, I had no idea Tantra had anything to do with the caste system and living on the outskirts and creating this way of honoring the goddesses and women and the sacredness of all humanity, you know, of all of us to be in connection with spirit and to really put on a pedestal the beauty of what women and queer people and trans people.
• 41:30
  have access to as well.
• 41:32
  So that was just such a gift to listen to you express.
• 41:35
  And it's just
• 41:35
  giving us such a beautiful, because our history repeats, sort of mirror image of different
• 41:41
  marginalized communities and the power to subvert paradigms like queerness and black people, brown
• 41:47
  people, and the rising of just inclusion versus hierarchy or the attempt to continue to honor that
• 41:57
  linear.
• 41:58
  So that's what's sort of coming through for me.
• 41:59
  Thank you for sharing the patriarchal
• 42:01
  lens of where this came from and the class lens of where this came from at that time.
• 42:07
  And then where you took us to with colonialism, it's just so heartbreaking and so tragic that
• 42:12
  something so sacred, what you said that the divine lived in their swaying hips of these incredible
• 42:18
  goddess and sacred dancers was then treated as savagery by the actual people who were behaving
• 42:25
  as savages.
• 42:25
  It's just so heartbreaking.
• 42:28
  Bearing in mind these two huge systems,
• 42:30
  what do you think it's always important to remember as we approach sensuality and tantra,
• 42:37
  knowing this history?
• 42:39
  So I think if we come back to that idea of the appropriation,
• 42:45
  I sometimes wonder if the kind of cherry picking of particular practices from particular lands and
• 42:52
  cultures is a modern day colonialism okay and it may not be that we're now drawing the lines
• 42:59
  across the lands but if you look into a lot of the wellness wellness classes and studios and systems
• 43:09
  there are lines drawn around it by the price by those who are seen to be able to access those
• 43:17
  classes by those who feel included or excluded from those practices.
• 43:23
  And so I wonder, actually,
• 43:25
  is this the modern day colonialism?
• 43:27
  And it's kind of the microcosm of the world that we are in,
• 43:31
  in this wellness world.
• 43:32
  And I keep saying wellness because I prefer with little marks
• 43:36
  next to it, apostrophe marks.
• 43:37
  But I keep saying this because for me, it's this world is not about
• 43:41
  being well it's about being whole I wish it was called the wholeness world that's for me so much
• 43:48
  more representative of I think my mission in this space it's being whole it's you know it's great to
• 43:55
  be well but it's a transient state so that's what I would say around kind of the modern day
• 44:02
  colonialism and something that I wanted to share which came up for me when you were so beautifully
• 44:09
  recapping was that in awakening the sorry in turning around the gender disparity that was
• 44:20
  happening at that time for spiritual practices and by putting shakti as the forefront of the
• 44:26
  practice rather than the shiva so shakti is now the forefront um it is not only for women
• 44:36
  so it's an invitation for us all to connect with the shakti within ourselves
• 44:42
  and that's why tantra is a beautiful path for our queer community for people from all walks of life
• 44:50
  people who feel like they don't belong in any particular class setting or community because
• 44:57
  it comes from the outskirts of community it's for specifically us all those parts of us
• 45:04
  and so shiva and shakti it's not about becoming more of a man or more of a woman
• 45:09
  it's again it's about can we witness all that is alive within ourselves and that
• 45:14
  that is an invitation to to all bodies right so it's it's very inclusive in its path and i think
• 45:24
  that's where we need to be mindful of when we are sharing this path and calling it tantra
• 45:32
  are we maintaining that sense of inclusion that is at the very heart of why this practice even
• 45:39
  exists?
• 45:42
  That is so powerful.
• 45:43
  I know that's going to mean so much to our listeners and
• 45:47
  the people watching this because I love how in the way that you have framed SOSA,
• 45:54
  there's so much gender inclusion.
• 45:56
  We see a lot of women's circles and these explicit sort of
• 46:00
  groups.
• 46:00
  And I love that you are returning it to its roots of complete inclusion.
• 46:05
  And what you said
• 46:06
  earlier about allowing space for the repressed within each of us and saying that this is for us,
• 46:12
  this is for those of us who feel excluded or for each person who has parts of themselves who feel
• 46:17
  excluded, which is everyone.
• 46:19
  So that is such a gift to hear that you say that.
• 46:22
  And in the book,
• 46:22
  something I also found super fascinating to that point, where could you share, since we have a lot
• 46:26
  of non-binary listeners and trans listeners, the sacred people, the Hijras that you write about.
• 46:32
  I found that so beautiful.
• 46:33
  Yes.
• 46:34
  So the Hijras are a beautiful and ancient part of Indian
• 46:38
  civilization.
• 46:40
  And the Hijra are the third gender.
• 46:42
  And I grew up always knowing about Hijras.
• 46:47
  And when we would go to visit my family in India, if there was a happy occasion, a baby was born,
• 46:54
  or there was a marriage or something, the Hijras just had this way of knowing.
• 46:59
  And the Hijras live in a particular part of community.
• 47:02
  They're looked after.
• 47:03
  They're very well respected and esteemed to have a connection to the divine as the third gender,
• 47:10
  as the living embodiment of having this Shiva and Shakti deeply manifest within themselves.
• 47:17
  And they would turn up to the houses and bless what was happening.
• 47:22
  and they would sing, they would come wearing saris.
• 47:26
  So it's a physical manifestation.
• 47:29
  And this is very normal in India.
• 47:32
  It's very, very normal.
• 47:34
  Again, this is a part of the culture that was even more normal pre-colonization.
• 47:40
  So although it does exist today,
• 47:42
  there is more constraints around the particular spaces
• 47:46
  that hijra people and community can live within a society.
• 47:51
  but I'm very glad that it hasn't been cut off completely.
• 47:55
  So the Hijras are this beautiful third gender
• 48:00
  and they have always existed in India.
• 48:04
  They exist within the mythology,
• 48:07
  the ancient mythology that we read on in the system
• 48:12
  as a very, very loyal part of community.
• 48:16
  So one of the mythologies, they are representing the part of the community who didn't run away whenever anyone else did in a particular mythology.
• 48:27
  They're the ones who stayed.
• 48:29
  And so they have reverence, they have respect.
• 48:34
  And people are a little bit fearful of them, again, because of this sense of they have this natural access to both Shiva and Shakti.
• 48:44
  so there is a bit of a fear around like if we don't appease or please or let the hijra in if
• 48:51
  they come to our door something bad will happen to us so there's actually a great amount of power
• 48:57
  and I think this is for me I find this refreshing because sometimes in the west I hear that
• 49:07
  this idea of gender and being non-binary is a modern concept and i think is it because i've
• 49:15
  heard about it for a long time um maybe now we have more um language around it and more awareness
• 49:22
  around it um but it's as old as human beings have existed this way of expressing oneself and
• 49:30
  And I think, yeah, Tantra, it offers this deity called Ardha Nareshvari.
• 49:37
  So this is half Shiva, half Shakti seen in an iconological form.
• 49:44
  And this is the main deity that the Hijras will pray upon.
• 49:51
  Oh my word.
• 49:52
  Wow.
• 49:53
  I feel like this is going to be so magical to have with so many people.
• 49:56
  We have these histories that become othered and ignored.
• 50:00
  And it's so convenient for the Western paradigm to act like this is modern and new to then say it's a deviation from what we should be when it's who we've always been.
• 50:10
  And that the infinite wants to express infinitely through us.
• 50:16
  And so, of course, there are more than two genders or there are just this infinite possibility.
• 50:20
  So I love that history of and the continuation, the existence today of Hidras and the beautiful, not only the history of the community, but also the reverence, because it shows this divine possibility that we can all live honoring each other and even revering and putting, you know, in awe, being in awe of people who are put on, you know, who are misunderstood and therefore like put onto the outskirts, I guess, in our paradigm.
• 50:48
  So just so many things coming through for me as you're saying that.
• 50:50
  And I think that's going to be of such beautiful service to people who didn't know that.
• 50:55
  So I just love that so much.
• 50:57
  As we try to connect to our bodies and connect to these practices, I know that you do a lot of work with people.
• 51:05
  So could you share with us in your work in the School of Central Arts, what are you doing?
• 51:11
  What are you facilitating?
• 51:12
  What did you create in this incredible space that you've created?
• 51:15
  yeah so the school of central arts oh we've been on quite a journey um so the school of
• 51:22
  central arts at its heart at its foundation is a community and it's a community of spiritual
• 51:29
  seekers who will meet in whichever frequency is right for you but we meet every single week
• 51:35
  every single week of the year two or three times a week so that's an online space and we share
• 51:42
  like we've been sharing here tantra philosophy yoga philosophy which usually goes out once a
• 51:47
  week and then we will have a shiva wind down by my colleague mansi and a shakti flow which i teach
• 51:53
  so there's these kind of two ways of exploring that particular philosophical theme and then we
• 52:00
  have a lot of other pieces around the school of sensual art so we have our shakti circle
• 52:06
  everyone is welcome to the Shakti Circle to connect with all that is manifest within themselves so
• 52:11
  that's a monthly offering and this is our kind of online space there's other courses and things that
• 52:18
  we have here particularly for providing the kind of education which I feel is missing around
• 52:23
  sensuality and so there's yeah a lot of the online stuff because of the lockdown years that lives
• 52:30
  that lives in this space but I think since we've been coming out of the lockdown I mean it feels
• 52:35
  so long ago now to even think about it but a big intention of mine was to bring community into
• 52:42
  in-person spaces because one of the most common blocks to sensuality which comes up as shame
• 52:52
  the antidote to shame is community it's being in community where we can experience parts of
• 53:00
  ourselves that don't feel like they're going to be discarded or yeah castrated from from that
• 53:09
  particular community and that's what shame is it's a feeling of if I was to experience or even think
• 53:15
  about this thing then I'm going to be left out of the tribe and that's why it can feel like a really
• 53:20
  life or death feeling um so our in-person presence in London but also Europe and India with trainings
• 53:29
  is a really, yeah, a really beautiful space also to connect with like-hearted souls.
• 53:36
  Wow.
• 53:37
  I feel just so in awe of creating when people create exactly what they were seeking.
• 53:42
  And so we just celebrate you for doing your work in this lifetime and creating these magical
• 53:47
  experiences and moments for people.
• 53:49
  I know we'll put this at the end, but where can people find
• 53:51
  the School of Central Arts just so they can tap into your community?
• 53:54
  Yes.
• 53:54
  So you can find us on schoolofcentralarts.co.uk.
• 53:59
  And then we have our online presence.
• 54:02
  So that's through my Instagram, henneka.x.
• 54:06
  Also inspired by you, I am there.
• 54:09
  I started my YouTube.
• 54:11
  Oh my goodness, that's so incredible.
• 54:14
  I did.
• 54:14
  I listened to one of your podcast episodes that was around like why creativity is needed and your voice in creativity.
• 54:22
  And it just called to attention this part of me that I had been pondering on for years.
• 54:27
  So yes, the School of Essential Arts is now on YouTube, panica.x and all the social channels.
• 54:34
  Oh my word, wow.
• 54:36
  Between us, thank you.
• 54:37
  This is a full circle moment for me.
• 54:39
  Oh my goodness.
• 54:40
  Oh my goodness.
• 54:41
  That is so full.
• 54:42
  So that's actually gives me chills.
• 54:43
  That's
• 54:43
  incredible.
• 54:44
  I did not know that that's incredible.
• 54:46
  And you are just such a gift to learn from and
• 54:48
  listen to.
• 54:49
  So I'm so happy that now YouTube is a place where people can receive your wisdom and to
• 54:54
  be a small part of that is just a gift to my spirit.
• 54:57
  So I am so grateful to hear this and
• 54:59
  we're celebrating you for this next chapter.
• 55:01
  And I think to that point, you are showing up and
• 55:04
  birthing these worlds that are, you know, changing lives.
• 55:08
  And I think so many people want to do that,
• 55:10
  but they sit with many fears within themselves.
• 55:12
  And so I'm so curious on this journey to giving
• 55:15
  birth to your purpose and being seen and showing up and creating events and holding space and being
• 55:22
  so brave and how you're expressing your purpose on earth.
• 55:25
  What were some of the fears that you
• 55:26
  were invited to face to confront?
• 55:30
  Yeah, a lot, a lot.
• 55:31
  I mean, it's creating experiences in
• 55:33
  particular like creating these sand castles in time so they exist for a particular moment and
• 55:39
  then they're swept away but what remains is the feeling that you create inside of them
• 55:44
  and I think the feeling that I wanted to create was as you said the one that I wasn't experiencing
• 55:50
  when I encountered the numbness in my body that catalyzed the journey that I have been on I was
• 55:57
  finding that there wasn't a lot of spaces where I could have conversations around sensuality
• 56:04
  and I wanted to create a space that felt like all parts of me belonged.
• 56:09
  My voice would quiver when I spoke before.
• 56:11
  I wanted to find and create a space where we could practice using our voices,
• 56:17
  where we could go into introspection, where we could move our bodies and dance and be free.
• 56:23
  And that's the sandcastle that I wanted to create.
• 56:27
  So I think the parts of me that I had to sit with and move through
• 56:33
  in order to create those were well there's always been a coming back to every time expansion is
• 56:39
  there for me there's imposter syndrome oh so the youtube for example my book writing my book there's
• 56:46
  a big piece there creating these experiences walking any path of purpose i think can come
• 56:52
  with this who am i to do this at least for me who am i to share these words and i think the
• 56:59
  biggest lesson that I learned was through sitting with this feeling for months before writing my
• 57:04
  book and coming to this feeling that my embodied experience is all that I need to create the spaces
• 57:15
  that I want to create so you don't need to be the expert in x y and z no one's an expert everyone is
• 57:23
  continually learning and no one can invalidate your personal experience with something so
• 57:29
  as soon as I felt the embodied transformation of tantra in my life there was no invalidation
• 57:38
  possible from that moment and that's why I wear the word tantra with such pride because I am so
• 57:46
  so so just in reverence of the transformation um the transmission that it's offered me in my life
• 57:56
  um so I think trust yourself and uh create those spaces because the world
• 58:03
  needs the very thing that you are feeling it is a lack of yeah
• 58:12
  oh my word and we can all just feel how necessary it's like the it's so interesting because it's
• 58:17
  almost like um the splitting to understand the other side because as you're saying like who am
• 58:22
  i to and all of us are like oh my word i could listen to you speak for like 7 000 hours because
• 58:27
  it's like your mind your consciousness is like this room and there are all these books in the
• 58:31
  wall and there's little things to play with and there's all this divine energy in the room and
• 58:35
  It smells beautiful.
• 58:36
  And it's like, it's so interesting how we're taught to undermine our own power.
• 58:41
  And I love what you said about, I embody this.
• 58:43
  I have embodied this transformation and I have so much to share on it.
• 58:47
  And then just listening to you say like, I'm so, so, so, so in awe and in reverence.
• 58:51
  It's just a gift to learn from people who are so in their heart and so in their creative
• 58:57
  power, but also willing to speak about the fears, which are part of the process.
• 59:01
  And so part of the unfolding.
• 59:02
  So thank you for sharing that.
• 59:03
  I know it's going to serve so many people, especially to hear that someone who comes across as just like so, you know, we often project that, oh, my word, this person has so much to share.
• 59:13
  They must just be so confident.
• 59:14
  They must have no fears.
• 59:15
  And it's so humanizing to hear we all have shame.
• 59:18
  We all have fear.
• 59:19
  And yet through and with those feelings, we can create.
• 59:23
  To that point, you write so beautifully about Shakti and what it has to say about fear.
• 59:27
  And so how can we relate to fear in a way that honors the Shakti of fear?
• 59:33
  so we're really interested in in tantra about the high voltage sensations that we can experience
• 59:39
  within the body so one of those high voltage sensations is fear right it's a jolt it's like
• 59:45
  a lightning bolt fear is it can put you straight into that separation and that polarity like i am
• 59:53
  here the thing that i want to do is over there and there is a big abyss that feels like if i
• 59:58
  even attempt to walk over there, I will fall into a hole.
• 1:00:03
  That's how fear can feel, right?
• 1:00:05
  So we're interested in using the voltage of that sensation to expand.
• 1:00:12
  Because if we can actually
• 1:00:14
  walk towards the precipice of that thing that we want to do and realize,
• 1:00:18
  oh, there's actually a few more steps that I could take here, suddenly that process of expansion,
• 1:00:25
  and it goes alongside with nervous system expansion, right?
• 1:00:29
  That actually we don't just jump over the big abyss.
• 1:00:33
  We go slowly.
• 1:00:35
  We take our time.
• 1:00:36
  So we go into feeling that for a little bit.
• 1:00:38
  Let's say three minutes we meditate on the fear that we have.
• 1:00:42
  One minute, 30 seconds, two.
• 1:00:45
  And then we come back in and we soothe ourselves.
• 1:00:48
  And then the next time we go for a little bit longer
• 1:00:52
  and then we come back in and we sit with that sensation and we watch it and we witness it and
• 1:00:58
  we say you're allowed to be here it's okay my beloved it's okay and then we let that soothe
• 1:01:06
  and then the next time we go we go well I've already gone this far so maybe I'll take one or
• 1:01:11
  two more steps and suddenly now we realize we look down there isn't an abyss at all it's just
• 1:01:16
  like stepping off of a curb right except for it just feels like that when you're so far back and
• 1:01:21
  you're not sure what's over the latch so i think this is the way that we would approach fear it's
• 1:01:26
  where where does that high voltage sensation invite us into and how can we use that sensation
• 1:01:34
  to expand our potential i was on that journey with you that was stunning oh i love the instrument
• 1:01:45
  of expansion always coming back to that and the tantric aspect of fear this high voltage
• 1:01:51
  high voltage sensation.
• 1:01:53
  That is such an exciting way to see it because it is, it's so, I love what
• 1:01:58
  you said.
• 1:01:58
  It is a jolt.
• 1:01:59
  It's the nerves, the feeling, even before this interview, I had that
• 1:02:02
  jolt and I was like that feeling.
• 1:02:05
  But what you said about we can, we can expand little by little
• 1:02:09
  and that also our minds are creating the sharp cliff, but actually there's a curve that really
• 1:02:14
  resonates so deeply.
• 1:02:15
  And something that comes through for me with fears, I always had this
• 1:02:18
  image of there's a fire and there's like this goddess or whatever figure most resonates with
• 1:02:23
  you who walks towards and through the fire.
• 1:02:26
  And they're like this, this resilience, not that they
• 1:02:29
  don't feel the pain, but it's that they, they use the pain and they are with the pain and they
• 1:02:33
  emerge.
• 1:02:34
  And I've always had this image of like, I want to be the woman who walks into the fire
• 1:02:38
  and walks through the fire.
• 1:02:40
  And it's just a gift to be able to live like that, but it's also
• 1:02:44
  yeah it really is I think I think I think anyone that walks in the creative or path of purpose
• 1:02:51
  is a continual it's a continual walk through the fire yes honestly I don't think that it ever
• 1:02:59
  ends and I say that as I laugh because it's like you think you've got it figured out and then you
• 1:03:06
  meet the next cliff and the next edge and for me like that was the YouTube I was thinking about it
• 1:03:11
  for years and years and years.
• 1:03:12
  And that's why listening to conversations like this with you
• 1:03:15
  are so powerful because you can hear actually that's podcasts have been a big part of my
• 1:03:20
  experience of kind of transitioning even from law into the path that I'm in where I was listening.
• 1:03:25
  And I thought, oh, that person walked towards that cliff and they survived.
• 1:03:30
  Wow, maybe I could
• 1:03:33
  do that, you know, and I think that's the power of stories and sharing stories, the possibility
• 1:03:39
  of what could exist somehow it feels more attainable more possible if you know others
• 1:03:46
  have walked the path before you and we live in a world of creativity so it very much is possible
• 1:03:54
  it's so inspiring that we live also in a time that we can learn from people who inspire us and we can
• 1:04:00
  hear oh my word they actually you know I love learning from people like that they've they've
• 1:04:04
  fears and it's exactly what you said.
• 1:04:06
  You learn, oh my word, if they walk towards it, I can too.
• 1:04:09
  So I just adore that so much.
• 1:04:11
  Something that I wanted to tap into is sort of identity and how
• 1:04:14
  it relates to then what we allow, because I'm curious if there's anyone listening to watching
• 1:04:18
  this who has that cultural resonance where, for example, if you are conditioned to believe you
• 1:04:25
  have to be perfect, you know, you're operating in these schools and also you have, you know,
• 1:04:31
  what this like myth these myths we receive from our families and lineages does anything come
• 1:04:36
  through for you on the specific scripts you were given with your specific identities in the way
• 1:04:40
  you would name them that you were invited to let go of that weren't serving you and then also those
• 1:04:45
  that perhaps you decided that you did want to keep yeah um perfectionism is is definitely a big
• 1:04:53
  script and a big blocker for me ever begin i always had this itch i always knew like deep
• 1:04:59
  inside myself that the creative path was the one for me and I would always have these kind of ideas
• 1:05:06
  flood through but they would never make it into the manifest world because there was this
• 1:05:15
  other side that needed it to be perfect for it to be manifest and so years went on like this
• 1:05:21
  where like an idea would drop through and it would never come out and there is this in Big Magic you
• 1:05:29
  by Elizabeth Gilbert.
• 1:05:30
  You know, I always come back to this metaphor that she writes about as
• 1:05:34
  creativity being this kind of external being that will visit you and me and everyone who's listening
• 1:05:40
  here.
• 1:05:41
  And if it doesn't find a route through your body or your words or your creativity or your
• 1:05:46
  purpose to become manifest, it will just keep swimming around and finding the person who has
• 1:05:52
  the channel through which it can come through.
• 1:05:55
  So I think that's what was really happening for me at
• 1:05:57
  that time it's like the constraint of perfectionism meant there was a kind of congestion it was never
• 1:06:03
  getting through and so um to to really undo that you know what helped me hmm burlesque dancing
• 1:06:13
  wow oh my word right this is so random I love that like the sacred dancers
• 1:06:20
  channeling the wisdom in the temples I didn't know this at that time like I
• 1:06:26
  this is a side story but so we when I was in my legal career I started these dance classes
• 1:06:33
  it was Balboa so it was partner dance pretty there's nothing burlesque about that but the
• 1:06:38
  teacher one day she said I run a burlesque performance group and we have a show so do
• 1:06:47
  you want to come and see it and I was like sure I love dance I'd love to come and see
• 1:06:51
  something that you've crafted and I went and my jaw was on the floor and it was just this pull
• 1:06:59
  and it was a vintage burlesque group so they were doing dances and creating stories
• 1:07:05
  around like the 1920s kind of this kind of era and that pull kind of led me towards
• 1:07:14
  joining the group.
• 1:07:16
  And I learned that burlesque comes from the Italian burla,
• 1:07:20
  which means like to make fun of or to make jest of.
• 1:07:25
  And that's what we were doing.
• 1:07:27
  We were
• 1:07:27
  imperfectly going on to a stage, making jest of what was happening in contemporary society.
• 1:07:37
  and in that practice I learned that for the show to go on it only had to be 51 percent
• 1:07:46
  okay like we had to know it 51 percent and the other bits it might be a bit messy you will
• 1:07:52
  definitely notice the audience will probably be on to the next thing they might not notice
• 1:07:58
  and it really helped to untie some of that perfectionism so yeah burla again that thing
• 1:08:04
  of making jest of.
• 1:08:06
  Lila.
• 1:08:07
  Lila.
• 1:08:08
  Yeah.
• 1:08:09
  Oh my word.
• 1:08:10
  Thank you for sharing that.
• 1:08:12
  Wow.
• 1:08:12
  I'm like in the
• 1:08:13
  burlesque room.
• 1:08:14
  I'm imagining that was really transforming and it is tying so beautifully to
• 1:08:19
  what you said about the opposite of shame is community.
• 1:08:21
  And you, I think we're so often taught
• 1:08:23
  to do our little practices by ourselves and that's how you overcome this or that.
• 1:08:27
  And you were in the
• 1:08:28
  room with these other dancers and you were learning through an embodied wisdom what it's like to
• 1:08:35
  create imperfectly and it's still to be more than okay and to play and to find the human
• 1:08:39
  the bola I love that I did not know that about burlesque that's incredible I had no clue
• 1:08:44
  um that's so so wonderful so the perfectionism that script that you were invited to then unblock
• 1:08:51
  that channel I love big magic this podcast would not exist without big magic so I just love that
• 1:08:56
  so much.
• 1:08:57
  So how do you now dance with that voice?
• 1:09:02
  If, like, for example, with your YouTube,
• 1:09:05
  when that perfectionism comes through and that desire comes through,
• 1:09:09
  how do you walk yourself through that ledge?
• 1:09:11
  Yeah, the edge is definitely still there.
• 1:09:14
  I'm
• 1:09:14
  only like a few episodes in every one.
• 1:09:17
  So it exists.
• 1:09:18
  It's still there.
• 1:09:20
  But I'm trying to
• 1:09:21
  to uh kind of scale my nervous system slowly towards doing it so um I I for me like the
• 1:09:31
  ritual of getting ready is really important so this idea that like if I prepare myself that's
• 1:09:37
  part of my kind of nervous system regulation I'll sit down I'll film for a bit and then it has to be
• 1:09:43
  51 perfect not 100 perfect to actually go out and exist and there's like there's a
• 1:09:51
  recent video where I keep thinking back to it and think I could have done that differently and
• 1:09:57
  but I'm not letting myself delete it because I think it just needs to exist for now that's
• 1:10:02
  it just has to go from unmanifest to manifest that's it that's that's the practice and everything
• 1:10:07
  else can come come along with that um so I'm trying to be compassionate to that part of myself
• 1:10:13
  because I don't think it again it's like walking through that fire I don't think it completely goes
• 1:10:18
  away.
• 1:10:20
  But yeah, I'm doing my best.
• 1:10:24
  We can all find ourselves like so profoundly in what you're
• 1:10:27
  saying.
• 1:10:27
  And I love that the videos are still up and we all know that they are such a gift to us
• 1:10:32
  that we get to learn from you and receive from you is such a gift.
• 1:10:35
  And thank you for the invisible
• 1:10:38
  work that you are doing in order to show up the way that you're showing up and in order to continue
• 1:10:42
  to walk towards the fire.
• 1:10:44
  And I think no, I mean, unless you discuss it, no one would know
• 1:10:48
  outwardly that you have these fears because, you know, we're clearly just able to learn so much
• 1:10:52
  from you in so many different ways.
• 1:10:54
  But that voice from within, and I think that that compassion to
• 1:10:58
  honor what you have to share, to continue to walk towards the fire and what you said about,
• 1:11:03
  oh my word, like thinking about a video and thinking about, I literally, that is my,
• 1:11:08
  that still happens so much.
• 1:11:10
  So it, as you say, it never goes away.
• 1:11:12
  And we keep, because we're
• 1:11:13
  expansive beings, because what I love about you saying that tantra is an instrument to expand or
• 1:11:18
  for expansion, that we are that as well.
• 1:11:21
  So that's why even as we desire to manifest something,
• 1:11:24
  then we do manifest it.
• 1:11:26
  And then we're still desiring to, because we are also tantra,
• 1:11:28
  you know, I'm just, that just dropped in now, but we are also the universe's infinite desire to keep
• 1:11:34
  expanding.
• 1:11:34
  And so it's beautiful that you're doing that work and that we get to keep learning from
• 1:11:38
  you.
• 1:11:39
  Oh, wow.
• 1:11:39
  I am in awe of just like how fascinating and multiple we each are.
• 1:11:46
  It's
• 1:11:46
  really wonderful to hear that.
• 1:11:49
  Where I'd love to go next is I think so many people are wondering,
• 1:11:52
  you have alluded to or mentioned your own experience of your dark night of the soul,
• 1:11:57
  your transition from feeling numb to feeling what you do now.
• 1:12:00
  And so if you feel called to share,
• 1:12:02
  I love the saying, actually, it's from Sahara Rose, who wrote the little aspect of love on
• 1:12:08
  Henneka's book.
• 1:12:09
  She says, your mess is your message.
• 1:12:11
  And I think other teachers have said
• 1:12:12
  this, but it's such a beautiful way of saying like your wound is your wisdom, your mess is
• 1:12:16
  your message.
• 1:12:17
  So I'm curious what journey you went on to then awaken this wisdom within you.
• 1:12:23
  Yeah, it's very much in the polarity of sensuality.
• 1:12:29
  So sensuality for me is being in the sensations, being aware of the sensations through the senses, through the sensory body that we're in.
• 1:12:41
  So if I now go to the polarity of that, what I was experiencing in those dark nights of the soul was the absence of sensation.
• 1:12:50
  And so I experienced numbness for a number of years, actually.
• 1:12:55
  And it was that thing of because there was so much unattended grief or unprocessed experience within my body, those sensations, they were there.
• 1:13:03
  Like I remember if I connected myself to kind of teenage years and I loved dance at that point.
• 1:13:13
  It was the only place where I could kind of touch my grief without speaking about it.
• 1:13:21
  So I knew it was there.
• 1:13:22
  But as I grew up, as I grew older, as I went into the world of work, I stopped doing that.
• 1:13:27
  I lost touch with that part of myself.
• 1:13:30
  and those sensations, they were knocking on my door.
• 1:13:35
  They were saying, express me, feel me,
• 1:13:37
  I'm here.
• 1:13:39
  And I was going, no, no, no, no, too painful, too busy, don't have time,
• 1:13:45
  don't want to look at this.
• 1:13:46
  And so those sensations, they stopped knocking on the door.
• 1:13:50
  And I think that's where the numbness came from, unattended sensation.
• 1:13:55
  So this was a really,
• 1:13:58
  it was a really tricky part of life because it's the absence of feeling so it's quite hard to
• 1:14:07
  identify I'm not feeling anything you know it's you can say I feel this I feel that I would have
• 1:14:14
  loved to feel anything at that point and where that really came up for me was in my relationship
• 1:14:20
  so I could somehow justify a little bit of boredom at work at that time I was like in a junior role
• 1:14:29
  I was like okay I'm gonna do the boring stuff this is my life for a while and uh but where I couldn't
• 1:14:36
  sit with that as an eventuality was in my relationship and particularly within the walls
• 1:14:42
  of the bedroom where I felt like surely I'm meant to feel something here and that's where I was
• 1:14:47
  coming into contact with these first aspects of the numbness that I was experiencing in my body
• 1:14:55
  and the numbness within the walls of the bedroom became a mirror for actually the other aspects of
• 1:15:00
  my life.
• 1:15:01
  So now I feel like actually the work that we can do in the bedroom, if we are able to nail
• 1:15:06
  it in our most vulnerable, our most naked essence, then that can also multiply in other areas of our
• 1:15:13
  life so if we are able to like use our voice more if we're able to ask for what we desire if we're
• 1:15:19
  able to maintain our boundaries you can move that from the bedroom to the boardroom as well because
• 1:15:24
  you've done it in your most vulnerable place right so it's it's um yeah it was it was in this
• 1:15:33
  the dark walls of that room that actually my journey began.
• 1:15:42
  If we can honor that, if we can express, if we can be in our, in our truth and in connection,
• 1:15:49
  sensually in these sexual moments, these moments of intimacy, that that has this transference.
• 1:15:55
  I
• 1:15:55
  think that's so important for all of us to know, like that energy has also been repressed by all
• 1:15:59
  of these systems, also because it's so powerful in all these other areas of our life.
• 1:16:05
  You share
• 1:16:05
  this moment where you are in your apartment that really, really stuck with me.
• 1:16:11
  And I'd love
• 1:16:12
  to tap into that if you know the moment I'm talking about.
• 1:16:15
  Okay, perfect.
• 1:16:16
  I know exactly the moment.
• 1:16:18
  I know exactly the moment.
• 1:16:19
  And it's really interesting that you
• 1:16:21
  picked up on this part because it's when I submitted the proposal for my book, I submit,
• 1:16:27
  I didn't submit the first chapter.
• 1:16:29
  I submitted the middle chapter in this particular story.
• 1:16:32
  Wow.
• 1:16:33
  So, well, the story was that kind of in these nights of numbness, there was this,
• 1:16:40
  yeah, there was this desire actually at one point that I felt like, do I, do I want to be here?
• 1:16:46
  And
• 1:16:46
  it was dark.
• 1:16:48
  And my hand went into the kitchen and kind of skimmed across the knives there.
• 1:16:53
  and I looked up and in front of me I was living in Beijing at that time and there was a reflection
• 1:16:59
  of me it was the night and on the outsides all of the high apartment buildings have these kind of
• 1:17:06
  like metal grills and I wondered at that time I was like are these grills up here
• 1:17:14
  seeing my reflection behind these it felt like are they for keeping me in you know or for stopping
• 1:17:22
  me from jumping out, you know.
• 1:17:24
  And there was this moment that then my hands skimmed across the
• 1:17:28
  knives and I found my camera and I picked it up and I took a picture of it.
• 1:17:35
  So I took a picture
• 1:17:35
  and it's a beautiful shot, actually.
• 1:17:37
  It's like you can see the night sky, you can see the city
• 1:17:41
  lights, you can see the layer of the grills, you can see the reflection of the self in that
• 1:17:47
  in that picture.
• 1:17:48
  And I felt like that was the moment that Shakti found me again.
• 1:17:52
  When I picked
• 1:17:53
  up the camera instead of the other options that were there, it was like creativity found me.
• 1:18:00
  And
• 1:18:00
  it said, here's your avenue.
• 1:18:02
  And interestingly, the lights were shining through my body from the
• 1:18:06
  city.
• 1:18:07
  And there's a particularly bright one that shone in the central center.
• 1:18:11
  And it was like,
• 1:18:12
  GPS coordinates go here.
• 1:18:14
  So that was a really powerful moment for me in my life.
• 1:18:20
  Yeah.
• 1:18:21
  Yes.
• 1:18:34
  wow wow i'm i have no words that was listening to you and the embodiment of how you told that story
• 1:18:45
  Oh my word, Shakti, finding you in that moment, your hands on the knives.
• 1:18:50
  And thank you for naming that so honestly, that darkness and that feeling of numbness that you spoke to earlier so wonderfully of like not even knowing, wanting to feel, not having that absence of feeling.
• 1:19:03
  And then that divine intervention.
• 1:19:05
  Oh my goodness.
• 1:19:07
  I literally was in complete awe when I read it and now I'm in complete awe listening to you say it.
• 1:19:11
  So we really appreciate you saying that.
• 1:19:13
  And what would you say, I know there's no, you know, we try to, but what would you say to someone who may be in the before of your experience, who is feeling numb or is feeling that they're questioning their life, the meaning, they're disconnected from their life force, from that feeling of aliveness that they maybe know is possible, but really aren't feeling into?
• 1:19:37
  I think I would say that all of the emotions that you feel and even the absence of emotion is also shakti.
• 1:19:48
  So everything is aliveness.
• 1:19:52
  It's not just about feeling more pleasure.
• 1:19:55
  It's not just about feeling good or feeling well.
• 1:19:58
  It's about being able to feel it all.
• 1:20:01
  and so even even if it feels painful to look at even if it feels uh gnarly and sticky that too
• 1:20:11
  is your aliveness and one of our kind of our main tag at the school of sensual arts has come for the
• 1:20:18
  pleasure because that's why people will often come you know to the school of sensual arts for
• 1:20:22
  sensuality and joy and bliss and orgasm and all of those juicy things but what they will stay for
• 1:20:29
  is the soul and the soul is that part that is everything it is all of the aspects of life
• 1:20:36
  because we can't only open the door to pleasure we when we open the door to feeling pleasure we
• 1:20:44
  open the door to feeling full stop so you will feel all parts of life more deeply in order to
• 1:20:50
  feel deeper pleasure um and so i would say the awareness in itself that there is an absence of
• 1:20:58
  sensation is great wisdom and it's from that space that you can like slowly trickle in where is the
• 1:21:06
  life force where am i not feeling what is the particular setting that i'm particularly
• 1:21:13
  disconnected in or frozen in um and and it's possible i think the the the the final message
• 1:21:22
  I'll share on this point is that it can feel like this is going to be me forever when we're in
• 1:21:29
  places like that.
• 1:21:31
  And it feels like, is this it?
• 1:21:34
  Is this my life?
• 1:21:35
  Am I going to feel like this
• 1:21:37
  always?
• 1:21:38
  And what I've learned is that we live in moving, changing, seasonal bodies and there's hope.
• 1:21:49
  There's so much hope.
• 1:21:50
  There's so much capacity for change and shift.
• 1:21:55
  And yeah, it's possible.
• 1:21:59
  Let's receive that possibility of my word.
• 1:22:02
  Wow.
• 1:22:05
  Even the not feeling is aliveness.
• 1:22:08
  That is such
• 1:22:09
  a powerful, I mean, I think that could change so many lives because that's not what we are taught.
• 1:22:14
  And as you mentioned, I think that is so magical to stay in touch with what you were saying about it will, we feel like this will last forever.
• 1:22:22
  I got this flashback to what you said earlier of like the divine likes to play.
• 1:22:26
  And so the image that came as you were saying that is because this energy wants to play, it won't allow you to, it doesn't want us to stay in the same chapter for the rest of our lives.
• 1:22:36
  What play would that be?
• 1:22:37
  So even when we're feeling pain, when we're feeling like this deep heartbreak or this deep grief, not to say that it's something will shift, you know, seasons will change.
• 1:22:45
  That's something that I think is really interesting to play with.
• 1:22:48
  Oh, well, if the divine likes to play, this won't be, this feeling won't be there forever because it's playing through me.
• 1:22:54
  So it's hard to remember that in those moments.
• 1:22:57
  But I know hearing you say that will restore a lot of hope to people.
• 1:23:01
  and then also what the invitation of your story of the camera is what is that shakti what is that
• 1:23:07
  creative dynamic energy or potential guiding me towards maybe rediscovering that i already was
• 1:23:13
  in touch with as a child often it's returning to something we loved or allowing something that we
• 1:23:19
  say oh no i don't get to do that and returning to that feeling so thank you for your generosity and
• 1:23:24
  sharing those moments.
• 1:23:25
  I just, I'm really grateful that we get to learn from these vignettes that
• 1:23:30
  you've experienced and some divine moment that you are in now is you are wonderfully pregnant.
• 1:23:37
  And I think that's so important to, to bring into this conversation of sensuality and tantra and
• 1:23:42
  these, these moments of, of connecting to presence and what is here.
• 1:23:46
  So I'm so curious, you know,
• 1:23:48
  you wrote this book, you're celebrating the two year anniversary, and now you're embodying a
• 1:23:52
  different kind of aliveness and sensuality.
• 1:23:55
  What is pregnancy teaching you about all the things
• 1:23:58
  that you teach?
• 1:23:59
  Yeah, I mean, it's the closest thing I can describe it to as being a teenager.
• 1:24:05
  This kind of idea that a force takes over and without you consciously doing anything,
• 1:24:13
  shifts happen, changes happen physically, mentally, emotionally, body parts grow.
• 1:24:20
  you know your mind the gray matter is is changing for your capacity into motherhood
• 1:24:27
  and so I'm in that at the moment and I'm trying to stay present with those sensations
• 1:24:34
  so it's really opened up I think after writing Sensual I was kind of in a moment of voluntary
• 1:24:40
  in between and I kind of wanted to stay there for a little while because I wasn't sure what would
• 1:24:46
  be next and this particular period that I'm in I feel like is the deep research
• 1:24:53
  so I'm really really curious at the moment around the process of of birth physically
• 1:25:01
  energetically spiritually calling in the soul of a child co-creating the generation that we
• 1:25:07
  we we can see in the tangible realm that we are in what this world needs so how can we be conscious
• 1:25:15
  co-creators of the next generation that we birth.
• 1:25:19
  The birth process and a kind of subsection of the
• 1:25:23
  School of Central Arts that I've opened is called Mothers and Lovers because one of my favourite
• 1:25:27
  parts of this experience has been encountering the very generous stories of the mothers that
• 1:25:33
  have walked before us and I feel like these stories are not often heard and they carry so
• 1:25:39
  much wisdom and I have felt a lot less fear around the birth process around motherhood
• 1:25:47
  as a new identity to wear because of the stories that I have heard around the physical act of
• 1:25:53
  giving birth around the feelings that accompany that and yes there are traumatic stories and those
• 1:26:00
  traumatic stories are usually the ones that we see in the media and the ones that we hear about most
• 1:26:05
  we don't often hear about the chapters of orgasmic birth or the flood of oxytocin that is released in
• 1:26:13
  your body in order to go into labor um we don't often hear about how our lovers are a part or not
• 1:26:20
  a part of that process um so i'm also keen on bringing in um like resources for our lovers
• 1:26:27
  as well um yeah as as co-creators so that's where i am at the moment research is in process
• 1:26:35
  In the moment, wow, that those stories need to be told.
• 1:26:38
  I also when I saw on your Instagram mothers and lovers, I didn't know that's what you meant by lovers.
• 1:26:43
  So that's also interesting.
• 1:26:44
  I love that.
• 1:26:45
  That's so powerful that you're providing resources because the support system around I mean, and also they're going through.
• 1:26:51
  Yeah, I just think that's so stunning.
• 1:26:53
  You're so creative in how you thoughtfully give give birth to things.
• 1:26:57
  And I'm curious now that you are actually, you know, dancing with this beautiful portal of life that is coming.
• 1:27:03
  Do you still resonate with describing the act of creativity as a form of giving birth?
• 1:27:09
  I do yeah I do even more so um so because in in the energetic system of of dantrayana yoga
• 1:27:18
  svadhisthana the the space of uh the central center uh associated with the womb and the
• 1:27:26
  water functions in the body uh this is also the portal of creativity so svad means um self or it
• 1:27:35
  means in Hindi it means flavor which this morning I was thinking that's interesting that it means
• 1:27:40
  flavor but swadhisthana means dwelling place of the self and so this dwelling place is where we
• 1:27:47
  create from so whether it is life that we are creating or as we deepen in sensuality and being
• 1:27:55
  in sensation often what steepens is also our creativity as well right or also when we are
• 1:28:03
  more creative our sensuality deepens because it gives us access and insight into our sensations
• 1:28:09
  so I believe even more so that creativity is a process of birth whether that is in the form of a
• 1:28:17
  child or in the form of a project that you're working on or the book definitely felt like it
• 1:28:23
  had contractions so I can verify with that older sibling that it's yeah it's very much this
• 1:28:31
  yeah portal and canal of yeah of birth and is that the sacral chakra so the the hindu word is
• 1:28:41
  svadhisthana svadhisthana okay you know you recognize istan so you'll notice um like at
• 1:28:49
  the end of countries as istan like pakistan um so it's like dwelling place so that's the dwelling
• 1:28:57
  place yeah and then svad is like the flavor of the self so like dwelling place of the self
• 1:29:02
  wow dwelling place of the self oh my word okay wow and you even write like that sensuality and
• 1:29:08
  creativity are two sides of the same coin we have so many artists I mean we're all artists so many
• 1:29:13
  people who are committed to being in touch with their artistry in this life listening and to and
• 1:29:18
  watching this and so what invitation to sensuality would you give people who do feel called to live
• 1:29:25
  their most creative life on earth how can we do this dance in a conscious and aware way
• 1:29:30
  when we are navigating words that we are taught are separate but you are inviting us to integrate
• 1:29:35
  and loom together as one so i like to think of if you think of the energetic senses they're called
• 1:29:41
  chakras and a chakra is a wheel so if you think of uh svadhisthana it has this wheel and the
• 1:29:49
  element that is associated with svadhisthana is the water element because think of all of the
• 1:29:55
  water functions that happen around the womb and also around like the kidneys are also associated
• 1:30:02
  with this area um like the pelvic area all all of all of the liquids just the fluids yeah all of the
• 1:30:10
  fluids so if we now bring that back into the energetic system think of that wheel as a water
• 1:30:18
  mill.
• 1:30:19
  So now this water mill is churning.
• 1:30:22
  And once this water mill is churning, and that might be
• 1:30:26
  through your sensuality, because you're feeling really juiced up and you're tapped in and you're
• 1:30:31
  kind of like moving through the world with this, yeah, this embodied feeling, that water mill will
• 1:30:40
  begin to fire up and it will be spinning and spinning and spinning.
• 1:30:44
  And what does a water
• 1:30:45
  will do when it's spinning the function is to create like energy and give life to whatever it
• 1:30:51
  is serving whether that's turning flour or whatever it's doing so we will start to provide energy to
• 1:30:56
  the other energy centers within the body as well um and then the same with creativity as well if we
• 1:31:03
  are deeply within our creative process this is the center which will begin to churn so it will fire
• 1:31:09
  up and um they say that sensuality and creativity are two sides of the same coin because of the seat
• 1:31:17
  that they share within the creative center within the body um so i like this that we can use one to
• 1:31:23
  tap into the other um we can be creative beings we can be sensual beings uh and then they don't
• 1:31:30
  need to be or and creative and yes creative and oh the watermill that's so wonderful oh so if we do
• 1:31:39
  want to, I love how you said we can tap into one to tap into the other.
• 1:31:43
  If we want to tap deep into
• 1:31:44
  our sensuality in order to more deeply explore our creativity, what is a practice that we could
• 1:31:51
  tap into a little juicy pleasure or some other practice to really connect our sensual side in
• 1:31:57
  order to also, well, in and of itself, and also to deeply connect to this seat that it shares of
• 1:32:02
  creativity so one of my favorite practices for this is everyone's probably quite familiar with
• 1:32:09
  the gratitude practice so the more great things or the the more gratitude you have for certain
• 1:32:15
  things that happen in your day the more great things will happen so this is similar to that
• 1:32:21
  but with our senses so the more that we can tap into say at the end of the day we name
• 1:32:29
  one particular thing that we've seen, smelt, tasted, touched, heard, the more sensual our
• 1:32:37
  life will become.
• 1:32:38
  And like these stems of the five senses are often the stems through which
• 1:32:43
  inspiration can come as well.
• 1:32:45
  We start to see and notice the world in a different way, right?
• 1:32:50
  It's
• 1:32:50
  having this kind of zoom in that actually we start to take note of things we may have otherwise
• 1:32:56
  past.
• 1:32:57
  So yeah, our lives can become more sensual through noticing the five senses.
• 1:33:02
  I love that practice.
• 1:33:03
  Oh my word.
• 1:33:04
  Okay.
• 1:33:04
  So today we're going to be journaling or voice noting about
• 1:33:07
  what we see, what we touched, what we tasted.
• 1:33:10
  I love that.
• 1:33:11
  There've been moments.
• 1:33:12
  What I love
• 1:33:12
  about books like this is there are little moments of awareness that you realize the book has gifted
• 1:33:17
  you.
• 1:33:17
  So I love matcha, for example, and I'm also fascinated by how we can appreciate matcha versus
• 1:33:23
  appropriate matcha whole other whole similar conversation but I love the way that the the
• 1:33:29
  green and the milk like becomes this beautiful like lime green and then the it's like my favorite
• 1:33:36
  sight every morning to just see this like specific shade of green that I associate with matcha
• 1:33:41
  and the smell and it just is so beautiful to me and reading your book I was able to more deeply
• 1:33:47
  sink into that that was one of the senses of matcha that I enjoy I usually associate it with
• 1:33:52
  the taste, but I realized I actually delight in the look of it as well.
• 1:33:57
  So I love that through
• 1:33:58
  tapping deeper into our senses, we can receive more inspiration.
• 1:34:02
  And you share this wonderful
• 1:34:03
  Sanskrit word that shares how the senses are the portal to the divine.
• 1:34:08
  And I was like so
• 1:34:09
  intrigued by that because I love how language stays in touch with how people see the world.
• 1:34:14
  So I don't know if you feel called to share that with us.
• 1:34:16
  I found it so fascinating.
• 1:34:18
  Yeah, sure.
• 1:34:19
  So it's the panch, which means five, jnana, which is like knowledge, but a kind of knowledge that is not the mind knowledge.
• 1:34:28
  It's a kind of knowledge that is like an everlasting soul knowledge.
• 1:34:33
  Yes, jnana.
• 1:34:34
  And indriya, gateways.
• 1:34:36
  So the senses, the translation is these five gateways to knowing the soul.
• 1:34:47
  oh my word that just did something to me that was amazing thank you okay please continue because
• 1:34:51
  when you are in that ritual of your morning and you're witnessing that limey green
• 1:34:58
  washing into your drink and then you pull it to your mouth and you taste it for that moment if
• 1:35:05
  you're there in that witnessing presence who is the one witnessing the lime green who is the one
• 1:35:12
  tasting and that's the gateway then that's the bliss that you access because life slows down
• 1:35:20
  for that moment enough for you to step into vinyaya maya to appreciate it right so that's
• 1:35:27
  it it brings you into that that kind of separation of i am the one that is experiencing this
• 1:35:36
  so who am i i am bliss i am soul
• 1:35:41
  wow i'm in awe
• 1:35:45
  so it's a soulful moment you're having every morning it's a soulful moment oh my word wow
• 1:35:51
  oh oh my goodness thank you for taking us there and linking it to the matcha and
• 1:35:55
  who is the one experiencing it?
• 1:35:58
  I am.
• 1:35:58
  Oh my word.
• 1:35:58
  That is so gorgeous.
• 1:36:00
  And that ties so wonderfully
• 1:36:02
  to this incredible, first of all, on the level of a language lover, I just love that in the school
• 1:36:07
  of sensual arts, you have this divine phrase or invitation, come for the pleasure, stay for the
• 1:36:13
  soul.
• 1:36:14
  But then also as a fellow mother of a business, I'm just like, that is incredible
• 1:36:19
  copy.
• 1:36:19
  That's incredible.
• 1:36:20
  I'm obsessed.
• 1:36:20
  That's the best.
• 1:36:21
  And like, come for the pleasure.
• 1:36:22
  I'm like,
• 1:36:23
  oh, that has so many meanings and then stay for this.
• 1:36:25
  I'm just upset.
• 1:36:26
  So I love that.
• 1:36:27
  That is just incredible.
• 1:36:28
  Seeing that on your beautiful website, please do visit it.
• 1:36:31
  It's such
• 1:36:31
  a, when someone is in touch with their sensuality, they also birth things that are so beautiful
• 1:36:37
  to be in and to be in the presence of.
• 1:36:40
  And so I love, love that when we're in touch with the
• 1:36:44
  sensual part of us, we then gift that through us.
• 1:36:46
  So I feel always like in your website and
• 1:36:48
  all these things I'm like your team you I'm just like oh this is amazing I just I could just live
• 1:36:53
  here so I'd love to tap into what you just shared about the matcha and the soul what do you see as
• 1:36:59
  the connection between sensuality and soul so sensuality is that gateway right and it's the
• 1:37:07
  sensuality that is the portal through which we experience shakti because the senses are that
• 1:37:17
  part within ourselves within our minds within our brains that make us aware of the material
• 1:37:23
  realm that we are living in without the senses we wouldn't see or smell or taste or touch we would be
• 1:37:32
  shiver we would just be consciousness floating in who knows where so it's the senses that allow us
• 1:37:39
  to kind of tag ourselves into the material world that we are in and then it's the material world
• 1:37:46
  shakti that then can then reflect back to us who is the one that is experiencing this shakti
• 1:37:52
  right so if you think of those two as lovers right every time you become aware of the senses
• 1:38:00
  like you invite those lovers to meet again so that separation dissolves and that's why
• 1:38:07
  you know those moments where you drink your matcha or you watch that sunset or you do that thing that
• 1:38:13
  makes your heart feel so alive it's because that division is no longer there you're no longer just
• 1:38:21
  in the material realm you're in this you're in soul like you are connected awareness and that
• 1:38:27
  which is manifest is is one um and so yeah i think this is how sensuality connects with the soul um
• 1:38:36
  What the yogic system would say is, again, it would say not to get caught up in the senses.
• 1:38:43
  So the senses can also be an impediment to spiritual growth.
• 1:38:47
  And this is where the narrative of relinquishing the material world, this is where this comes from.
• 1:38:54
  Because it's very easy to get hooked up in feeling more and owning more and wanting to stay in the attachment of that.
• 1:39:05
  So I think that's where the awareness comes in, that we can experience those things, but just be aware not to get caught in the sense.
• 1:39:15
  Right?
• 1:39:16
  Because that's where our addictions and attachment patterns and those things come into.
• 1:39:21
  So I'm not promoting to get lost in the realm of the senses.
• 1:39:26
  I'm promoting the senses as a gateway through which we can reaccess the one who is experiencing them.
• 1:39:32
  Wow.
• 1:39:33
  The gateway.
• 1:39:36
  Can you say that again?
• 1:39:37
  Yeah.
• 1:39:37
  So I'm promoting that the senses are this gateway through which we can re-access the one who is experiencing the senses.
• 1:39:46
  The eternal soul that is here as divine play to experience.
• 1:39:53
  Oh, my word.
• 1:39:55
  I had never, ever thought about the senses that way.
• 1:40:00
  and I love the hand gesture every time I'm going to be like
• 1:40:03
  watch a sunset scoop me back to me I am the one experiencing the sunset
• 1:40:09
  that's kind of what you want to do when you're having a moment isn't it it's like I just want
• 1:40:12
  to scoop this up and like keep it right here exactly exactly oh my goodness wow oh my goodness
• 1:40:21
  oh that was like a paradigm shift it just sort of completely changed my my reality in a wonderful
• 1:40:26
  wonderful way that's actually the feeling that the feet wanting to feel that feeling is the birth
• 1:40:32
  of this podcast and as you were speaking about that unmanifest and manifest connecting I also
• 1:40:39
  got the image of you at the burlesque show and that feeling you described of just feeling so
• 1:40:44
  like your jaw on the floor you're feeling and it's like who's the one feeling this and then it
• 1:40:48
  returned you to the soul and you, I'm just, it's amazing.
• 1:40:54
  Oh my goodness.
• 1:40:55
  I, oh, wow.
• 1:40:56
  Hmm.
• 1:41:11
  Come for the pleasure, stay for the soul.
• 1:41:13
  Hmm.
• 1:41:14
  Hmm.
• 1:41:18
  What's also coming through for me is there's a specific way that through the senses, the soul, for example, someone who loves music is just going to feel so lit up by the sense that they're hearing through, you know, what they're hearing and receiving through music.
• 1:41:36
  And so it's almost like our unique expression is channeled through the specific gateways that a way we access those gateways is something comes through for me on that.
• 1:41:45
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:41:46
  And I think that's why tantra can be, it can be whatever expands your consciousness.
• 1:41:53
  So it's not do this and do that, because it doesn't, there's no one size fits all for everyone.
• 1:41:58
  Someone who loves to listen and play music will have a completely different pathway to accessing soul to someone who likes to paint and draw.
• 1:42:11
  and they may not necessarily meet, you know, if one does the other.
• 1:42:16
  It's like, I mean, I'm doing the playing the guitar,
• 1:42:20
  I'm painting the painting, but I'm not feeling my soul, you know,
• 1:42:25
  and that's okay.
• 1:42:26
  There doesn't need to be a one path for all.
• 1:42:30
  And that's why a lot of the kind of mystical paths,
• 1:42:33
  so not only Tantra, but Sufism, Kabbalah,
• 1:42:36
  a lot of the kind of mystical offshoots from the mainstream religion
• 1:42:41
  is often where the artists live so that's where we have that poetry of Rumi which is like deeply
• 1:42:49
  infused with a lot of tantra like if you think about the way that he explains the world like
• 1:42:55
  I'm a drop in the ocean or I'm the ocean not in what is it um I'm not a drop in the ocean I'm an
• 1:43:02
  entire ocean in a drop like this kind of thing of expansion and contraction um and it's where like
• 1:43:10
  the the mystics and the poets and the artists they're all in this kind of channel that is no
• 1:43:17
  longer pertained to a particular system that constrains it but i feel like there's this kind
• 1:43:22
  of meeting and melting pot of creativity as a pathway to the divine and that's this that's the
• 1:43:29
  work of the senses right that's the work of our writers and readers and musicians and painters
• 1:43:37
  it's that
• 1:43:43
  yes yes yes yes
• 1:43:45
  I love love love that
• 1:43:47
  I love just yesterday I was revisiting Rumi's guest house poem
• 1:43:51
  I only know the first two lines
• 1:43:52
  but it's something like
• 1:43:54
  this being human is a guest house
• 1:43:56
  every morning a new arrival
• 1:43:57
  and it speaks about welcoming them all
• 1:43:59
  which is everything you're saying
• 1:44:00
  that there's no wrong guest
• 1:44:02
  it's all here and it's all part of it
• 1:44:04
  and so that they are tantric
• 1:44:07
  way, these mystic paths.
• 1:44:08
  I also really enjoy Kabbalah.
• 1:44:10
  It's something that I'm tapping into
• 1:44:12
  more deeply now.
• 1:44:13
  And I just love that you're making that connection for us, that they are
• 1:44:18
  in touch with creativity as a form of spirituality, as how we are actively channeling the divine.
• 1:44:23
  And I heard this incredible YouTube, he's an Indian mystic spiritual teacher, and he goes by
• 1:44:30
  Satya Speaks, but I know that means truth.
• 1:44:32
  I don't know if that's his name, but he says that, you
• 1:44:34
  know when you're creating you can only be in the present moment and so you can only create now and
• 1:44:39
  create here and so it's a divine way of connecting to shakti connecting to um presence so that really
• 1:44:45
  came through for me as well yeah absolutely something that's coming to me as well is i may
• 1:44:49
  read um the the opening part of the book it's just a paragraph but it's one of the verses from
• 1:44:57
  the seminal text the vijnanbodha tantra and it talks about the senses incredible i thought that
• 1:45:02
  would be nice to maybe drop in here because it explains it way better than I have beautiful yes
• 1:45:06
  is this the opening that you buy the Leroche or something I have actual chills can I tell you
• 1:45:14
  that when I wrote the interview guide I the first question I had of like the the the system which I
• 1:45:20
  didn't end up putting in I took it out was can you please read the opening that you wrote because
• 1:45:27
  I was in complete awe of it and then I was like no the inner critic was like no I hadn't
• 1:45:32
  this is amazing you see all we need is each other i would love that i love when people read their
• 1:45:36
  own words i'm like this is incredible so if this is the time we would love to hear it yeah okay
• 1:45:41
  is that okay if i go of course please thank you so much oh my goodness
• 1:45:46
  wow okay so this is the opening verse before the contents page of my book sensual and it's a
• 1:45:59
  translation by Lauren Rush of the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, which is the seminal text on Tantra.
• 1:46:08
  And to give some background on the text, which will make this reading even more richer,
• 1:46:14
  the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra is a conversation which happens between Shiva and Shakti.
• 1:46:19
  And Shakti asks Shiva, how can I know love?
• 1:46:23
  How can I know consciousness?
• 1:46:25
  How can I know you,
• 1:46:26
  my beloved and instead of Shiva saying because he's Adiyogi he created the yogic and the tantric
• 1:46:33
  systems instead of him saying this is what love is this is what consciousness is he gives her 112
• 1:46:40
  meditations and he says my love go find out for yourself right and so this is one of the 112
• 1:46:49
  verses or meditations which is given from Shiva to Shakti and this text forms the foundation for
• 1:46:56
  most of the modern day practices that we see in in the world of yoga tantra well-being
• 1:47:03
  so here it is so this is yukti 33 and it says every perception is an invitation into revelation
• 1:47:13
  hearing seeing smelling tasting and touching ways of knowing creation transmissions of electric
• 1:47:22
  realization.
• 1:47:23
  The deepest reality is always right here, encircled by splendor in the center of the
• 1:47:32
  sphere.
• 1:47:34
  Meditate.
• 1:47:35
  Where the body thrills to currents of intimate communion, follow your
• 1:47:40
  senses to the end and beyond, into the heart of space.
• 1:47:55
  Wow.
• 1:47:59
  We would love to hear what comes through for you as you read these words.
• 1:48:04
  what came through for me then was what one of my teachers shared around the 112 meditations so he
• 1:48:12
  said that you don't need to practice all 112 they said he said even if there is just one verse
• 1:48:21
  and that becomes the verse through your life through which you meet the divine through which
• 1:48:26
  you meet soul that is enough and you can practice a verse for an entire lifetime i think this is my
• 1:48:33
  verse yeah and then you allowed it to become our verse that's so generous oh my word this is the
• 1:48:41
  verse and this is a very poetic translation of of the text um i mean it is poetry in itself but
• 1:48:47
  there are many many different versions that give you kind of more of like the how to what to but
• 1:48:55
  essentially this is it this is it's right here in that electric realization in the fear that
• 1:49:03
  we've spoken about in the edges in the abyss of sensation that's the electric realization
• 1:49:09
  right and um i love that it takes us then through the senses beyond that goes go into the heart of
• 1:49:18
  space and in the text space is the element which holds all the others so it's saying go into the
• 1:49:28
  sense and then go beyond it like go what else is there and i think that invitation into infinity is
• 1:49:37
  infinitely expansive oh my word wow wow wow wow go into the sense and then go beyond it
• 1:49:47
  wow something that is dropping into me as you're saying that and I just these words as you were
• 1:49:53
  reading them in your beautiful beautiful voice were so moving you know the every perception is
• 1:49:58
  an invitation into revelation even that scent line you know just to keep that with us is so
• 1:50:06
  magical it's always here the deepest reality is always right here even that I would like tat I
• 1:50:11
  don't have actually any tattoos but that's brilliant because we can always think it's
• 1:50:15
  somewhere else.
• 1:50:16
  I need to go learn something.
• 1:50:17
  I need to go do something.
• 1:50:18
  The deepest reality is
• 1:50:20
  always right here.
• 1:50:21
  Listening to you reflect on going into the sense and beyond it.
• 1:50:25
  Ever since
• 1:50:25
  I was a child, I would always, when I watched a show or movie that I really loved and there were
• 1:50:30
  little scenes that I loved, I would always rewind and watch it like again and again and again.
• 1:50:35
  And this is so sort of interesting that this came through in the way, but when you said go into the
• 1:50:40
  sense and beyond it, similar to the burlesque moment, when I go into the sense, I'm like,
• 1:50:45
  oh, this is so amazing.
• 1:50:46
  I'm so in awe.
• 1:50:47
  But when I go beyond it, it's like, I want to do that.
• 1:50:51
  Do I get to do that?
• 1:50:52
  I don't get to do that.
• 1:50:52
  You know what I mean?
• 1:50:53
  And I'm sort of in this
• 1:50:54
  precise moment, as you said, where we're always confronting new edges of recognizing that ever
• 1:51:00
  since I was very young, I've been drawn to acting, but I never pursued it.
• 1:51:05
  And so it feels like I
• 1:51:05
  don't get to do that.
• 1:51:06
  Who am I?
• 1:51:07
  And going into the sense and beyond it, what is, you know, what is
• 1:51:10
  that moment of the camera being picked up through me in this moment?
• 1:51:13
  And it's just, it's actually
• 1:51:15
  even scaring me to say it out loud, but it feels so at home in this moment.
• 1:51:19
  And that is exactly
• 1:51:20
  what came through as I think of going into it and then going beyond into it.
• 1:51:24
  It feels incredible.
• 1:51:25
  It feels, wow, I'm so in awe.
• 1:51:26
  They're so incredible.
• 1:51:27
  Look at that.
• 1:51:28
  Beyond is, ah, that's me.
• 1:51:31
  Yeah.
• 1:51:31
  And there's an element of your soul that is awakened through the witnessing of that particular
• 1:51:37
  sight, right?
• 1:51:38
  Watching that thing over and over again.
• 1:51:41
  There is something for each of us that
• 1:51:44
  calls our soul forwards right and why is it we don't know why all we can do is follow the
• 1:51:49
  sensation follow the sense into the heart and beyond and we don't know what's in that beyond
• 1:51:56
  either like all we can do is take that kind of next step to see what is what is this inquiry
• 1:52:01
  what is this curiosity right those little footsteps that you mentioned yes yes yes yes
• 1:52:08
  oh and there's something that calls to all of us i love this and something that i'm wondering
• 1:52:12
  since we all have different capacities, abilities, if one of our senses is not manifest,
• 1:52:20
  if we can't, someone can't see, or they can't hear, or they hear less than, you know, a lot
• 1:52:25
  of people here, how can they, what would this wisdom say about that?
• 1:52:30
  Because yeah, I'm curious
• 1:52:32
  what you would say, because I know you have such an inclusive lens on all of this.
• 1:52:35
  So I'm curious
• 1:52:36
  how you would respond to different abilities and such things.
• 1:52:39
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:52:40
  So we would know
• 1:52:42
  that if we close out one of our senses the other senses are strengthened so that's what i would say
• 1:52:48
  you have strengthened senses um and your intuitive ability is likely also strengthened because of
• 1:52:56
  that because the sixth sense is not the creepy movie it is so creepy the sixth sense is the um
• 1:53:06
  is the final kind of part in the energetic system that lives in the center of the mind's eye
• 1:53:12
  so if we are dissolved in one of the senses actually the other ones will fire up those
• 1:53:18
  water mills will turn and turn and turn to strengthen and provide the intuitive sense
• 1:53:23
  the information that it needs and often what it will see is that which is beyond the physical
• 1:53:31
  realm right and it will be deeply deeply connected so um there is great reverence for that the
• 1:53:39
  absence of a sense and living and working working and walking in a world where you may not have
• 1:53:46
  access to one particular sense may give you the strength of deepened intuition and the others
• 1:53:56
  it's such a divine way of of sharing that with us and heightening the other senses which we often
• 1:54:02
  hear and then heightening that sense of intuition which is so wonderful that you share that and i
• 1:54:07
  think that's going to help and serve so many people.
• 1:54:09
  And I just love how you're always thinking
• 1:54:13
  about how this can be for all of us because it is.
• 1:54:15
  A topic I would love to move to, which is very
• 1:54:22
  alive in the collective consciousness and culture right now, and I'm also curious to get your
• 1:54:26
  reflections on that, is manifestation.
• 1:54:30
  Because you also share how sensuality can be a path to
• 1:54:33
  manifesting and you share this beautiful tidbit or story about your own experience manifesting
• 1:54:39
  your dream partner and the life that you're living and the career that you have leaving your legal
• 1:54:46
  career to live this creative and artistic path and giving birth to all these incredible possibilities
• 1:54:51
  and forms of art and so I'm so curious question being what is the connection between sensuality
• 1:54:57
  and manifestation?
• 1:54:59
  So if we think about the manifest world as Shakti and the practices
• 1:55:07
  that we share on the tantric path as being in devotion to reverence of Shakti, the entire path
• 1:55:15
  is a path of practicing manifestation in a way without knowing it.
• 1:55:20
  And so often when we connect
• 1:55:22
  more with those sensations within our body, with the reverence of all of those five senses and the
• 1:55:28
  gateways to the soul, we can collapse time somehow with doing that.
• 1:55:34
  So again, if we think about the
• 1:55:36
  energetic body, so we've spoken a little bit about Svadhisthana, dwelling place of the self,
• 1:55:42
  the sacral center.
• 1:55:44
  And if we think about Shiva and Shakti as those translations of Shiva is that
• 1:55:50
  which is unmanifest consciousness pure awareness and shakti is that which is manifest all that is
• 1:55:56
  energy and everything here in manifest world is energy the pathway through the energetic body is
• 1:56:03
  crown of the head where you receive your visions your ideas your dreams from consciousness from
• 1:56:09
  awareness the journey through the energetic body is becoming from the most kind of
• 1:56:16
  of subtle to the most gross form.
• 1:56:21
  So we take that idea, we bring it into our mind's eye,
• 1:56:25
  maybe we see it, we sense it.
• 1:56:28
  Maybe then we bring it into the expression center.
• 1:56:30
  And as you so
• 1:56:31
  beautifully do here, you share that or you write it down.
• 1:56:36
  We bring it into the heart, which is
• 1:56:37
  connected with the hands.
• 1:56:39
  So maybe we do something in order to bring that creation even further into
• 1:56:43
  the manifest realm the third center is Manipura so this is the center of our digestive experiences
• 1:56:51
  right so this is the center through which that idea maybe digests and finds its form or its
• 1:57:00
  like alterations or the ways that it could yeah it could be the sensual center the feeling center
• 1:57:07
  like you you know when an idea is on chat gpt and when it's been written from the soul in the sense
• 1:57:14
  that's that's it because you i think maybe chachi pt is probably like money pura like the the
• 1:57:20
  digesting center upwards you've got the idea you've typed it in and then it's out there
• 1:57:26
  but when the sensuality comes into it that's where that's where the feeling the source the soul comes
• 1:57:31
  in and then the last part is muladhara muladhara is made up of the earth element so it's the
• 1:57:39
  manifest of all of those different chakra points now birthing into manifest form and Shakti lives
• 1:57:47
  in the pelvic bowl.
• 1:57:49
  So if you think this idea of okay Shiva and Shakti I'm constantly connecting to
• 1:57:53
  pure and infinite awareness and that which is manifest you've become an incredible channel
• 1:57:59
  for manifestation and you work with these centers and often that's what we're doing in the Tantra
• 1:58:04
  yoga practice we are strengthening our capacity to see and clear these different centers
• 1:58:15
  oh my goodness listening to you say that and express it and move us through that was such
• 1:58:20
  a delight and gift i'm so i know i keep saying i'm so happy you have a youtube channel because
• 1:58:26
  oh my word anything may all the fears and blocks clear from you so that you can because listening
• 1:58:31
  to you speak is like an absolute dream.
• 1:58:34
  It's amazing.
• 1:58:35
  I think we can all feel that we're like,
• 1:58:36
  oh my goodness, you are just an incredible, incredible speaker and teacher.
• 1:58:41
  And I'm just
• 1:58:42
  learning so, so much.
• 1:58:43
  I feel so in joy.
• 1:58:45
  So I love this moving through.
• 1:58:46
  And I love what you said
• 1:58:47
  about from the most subtle forms to the most gross forms, and that all of this has been the Shakti
• 1:58:52
  and Shiva and this conversation about making or allowing the unmanifest to become manifest.
• 1:58:59
  you work with so many people who are trying to do that who are who have brilliant incredible ideas
• 1:59:04
  and then as you said are being blocked by shame by perfectionism so what is the greatest invitation
• 1:59:11
  that you give to your students in this process of of channeling through something and allowing it to
• 1:59:17
  be to be born so we need to go into um the body is this kind of laboratory and understand in this
• 1:59:28
  laboratory where is that idea that is coming through where is it getting stopped or stuck
• 1:59:36
  so we might be able to identify that with the point through which you feel like you can't go
• 1:59:42
  any further and each of the different centers has its own kind of emotional landscape so
• 1:59:50
  So let's say, for example, you've got the idea, but actually like sharing it, the expression of it is it's just not coming through.
• 2:00:04
  Or maybe it's coming through to you, it's going down and you've got the confidence, which is the seat of self-worth, Manipura.
• 2:00:12
  But it's not really when it comes out, it doesn't feel like it has your true essence in it.
• 2:00:18
  or let's say okay you're it's coming down you're making the thing but you're making it and money
• 2:00:24
  is that seat of self-worth associated with a sense of sight interestingly but now you're scared
• 2:00:30
  about actually showing it to the world so you might make the art or create the video but the
• 2:00:37
  point of clicking publish or putting it online or inviting people to be a witness of it is the
• 2:00:43
  struggle so usually from those points you can kind of identify where there may may be a particular
• 2:00:49
  blockage or you could go from the root of identifying it through the physical manifestations
• 2:00:56
  so sometimes where we have kind of recurring physical manifestations would support us in
• 2:01:02
  in going to where the blockages are right because it might be in one of those three layers
• 2:01:06
  so then we would do particular practices that would help to clear and unlock and unblock
• 2:01:12
  how imagine the body like a pipe that's coming like bringing these ideas forth into the world
• 2:01:18
  we need to clear that part of the pipe that's that's clogged and this is practice you we have
• 2:01:24
  to revisit this again and again and again and again um so you'll have a personal practice that
• 2:01:29
  then you work with and i know like there was um there was a writer that i was working with
• 2:01:38
  who said, I can't sit down to write because I've got so much stuff that I need to do.
• 2:01:45
  And like practical things of being human laundry and things that we all have to do.
• 2:01:51
  And that when we looked at that, we looked at where that was coming from.
• 2:01:56
  And we looked at kind of where that feeling of I need to do this in order to do that was coming
• 2:02:02
  from and we realize that this is actually an unlocking process so if i did um let's go back
• 2:02:10
  to the laundry um if i did this pile of laundry then i unlock the portal through which i create
• 2:02:18
  so now it's not a block it's a gateway through which you do it whereas before you might think
• 2:02:24
  okay the writing is on that cliff over there the laundry is here and i am here so i can't do that
• 2:02:31
  like I can't do that it's too far away and you might never get to that point
• 2:02:35
  because then another thing will appear in front of you you know there'll always be other things
• 2:02:40
  that we can be doing on our path to purpose so it's kind of identifying what is that personal
• 2:02:48
  block and can it be cleared or can it be a gateway to do the thing that you want to create
• 2:02:56
  Oh, that resonates so deeply.
• 2:02:58
  That's such a paradigm shift again.
• 2:03:01
  How does the block become the portal?
• 2:03:04
  And I feel like with, for example, when your throat is blocked, sometimes actually speaking about the fact that your throat is blocked helps you to turn the block into a portal.
• 2:03:14
  And I'm curious what practices there's, you know, in these energy centers have you found either for yourself or your students have been, I know this is your whole world and work or part of it, have been really profound in helping people like that example, transform a block into or allow a block to become a portal in their lives.
• 2:03:34
  That was a beautiful example.
• 2:03:36
  Yeah, I mean, there's different exercises for the different centers.
• 2:03:41
  one that I come back to time and time again is something which all mammals do but we have
• 2:03:47
  forgotten to do and it's shaking yeah we do a lot of shaking because I think it hits on so many
• 2:03:53
  different points and I think anywhere that there is a calcification in the physical the energetic
• 2:04:00
  and the mental body shaking is usually even just for a minute is enough to kind of destabilize or
• 2:04:06
  decalcify the particular pattern that might be like recoding itself time and time again and
• 2:04:14
  keeping that idea from coming through.
• 2:04:16
  So shaking is really, really powerful portal,
• 2:04:19
  even if it just dislodges for a moment enough for you to click publish, and then the block
• 2:04:24
  comes back up again.
• 2:04:25
  It's like, what can we do in those moments where we know,
• 2:04:29
  oh, this is going to come up for me and just having those kind of access points.
• 2:04:34
  another practice that I love is and again we do this in every single circle at the School of
• 2:04:38
  Central Arts is yin vision and it's where we look into the eyes of another so you can do this with
• 2:04:46
  something that you're imagining or you can do this with someone who is is physically there
• 2:04:50
  or you can do it with yourself and first you tune into yang vision the opposite of yin vision where
• 2:04:58
  you might see for the physical so we begin tapping into what we see the way that we might see someone
• 2:05:06
  as we walk down the street or in the supermarket where we see them but we don't really see them
• 2:05:13
  and then we tune into the heart like a different frequency and connect the heart with the eyes
• 2:05:20
  with the sense of sight so now we're seeing from the body the heart space and we now go beyond the
• 2:05:26
  physical and we go into the journey that this person may have experienced we without words
• 2:05:33
  we're witnessing going into that witnessing presence and we're witnessing maybe this person
• 2:05:38
  has been on a path where there's been difficult moments we see that through these moments this
• 2:05:44
  person has grown wise there's embodied wisdom in this person and we begin to connect with the
• 2:05:51
  sensations of deep empathy and compassion in another and then the part where this really
• 2:05:58
  like trips or it clicks is you can then turn that vision and close your eyes and bring it inwards
• 2:06:06
  and the magnificence of this practice is is incredible it's so powerful because sometimes
• 2:06:13
  we can see another more clearly than we can see ourselves but it's this idea if we can just for
• 2:06:18
  a moment place that deep empathy and compassion in someone maybe we've just met them in a class
• 2:06:24
  that we're going to um and then we turn it back into ourselves it's like the transmission of that
• 2:06:30
  compassion is still there to be able to see your own journey to be able to see your own blocks to
• 2:06:36
  be able to see their own difficult moments that you've had um and to see that through that block
• 2:06:42
  through that journey you are also wise you have something to share so it's really electric
• 2:06:48
  practice that one.
• 2:06:52
  And yeah, that one's very, very helpful for both the self-worth and confidence,
• 2:06:56
  but also the intuitive center as well.
• 2:06:59
  Wow.
• 2:07:00
  Oh my word.
• 2:07:00
  So can you walk us through that again?
• 2:07:02
  So we, yes, just for anyone who didn't capture that, that's so beautiful, that
• 2:07:07
  shift into the self.
• 2:07:09
  That was so stunning.
• 2:07:10
  And I'm sure people can visit your circles and join
• 2:07:14
  your community to really tap into the wisdom.
• 2:07:16
  So we really encourage you to do that.
• 2:07:18
  but I just want to make sure that they receive that shift.
• 2:07:21
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:07:22
  So we will sit with a partner opposite us.
• 2:07:26
  It doesn't need to be a romantic partner.
• 2:07:28
  It can be anyone.
• 2:07:29
  You can even do this on the tube.
• 2:07:32
  Though in London, people don't often look at each other.
• 2:07:36
  I still do it.
• 2:07:38
  So the idea is that you sit with a partner
• 2:07:40
  and you'll sit with your eyes open
• 2:07:43
  and you'll first tap into yang vision.
• 2:07:46
  So you're seeing for the eyes of the physical.
• 2:07:49
  And we do that again to create that polarity.
• 2:07:52
  So we don't go straight into the yin because sometimes, again, for the nervous system, we're not always used to seeing the journey that someone has been on.
• 2:08:01
  We're much more used to seeing the physical realm and that which we are used to seeing.
• 2:08:08
  so first we kind of familiarize ourselves with this and then even if just by bringing your hand
• 2:08:14
  or your awareness to your heart you take a deep breath in and connect the eyes through to the
• 2:08:19
  heart space almost as if you're tuning into a different station and now this thread from the
• 2:08:27
  heart to the eyes allows you to see beyond the physical and what we see beyond the physical
• 2:08:33
  is the journey that this person, this soul is on.
• 2:08:38
  And we bear witness without knowing what this journey is,
• 2:08:42
  just knowing that there is one.
• 2:08:44
  And we witness that the soul is infinitely exploring
• 2:08:50
  and it's had contractions in its experience.
• 2:08:55
  And we also, in the experience, we will share,
• 2:09:00
  that we will witness the soul experiencing all that it has come here to experience as well so
• 2:09:06
  we'll see into the person the highest potential of their experience sometimes what that person
• 2:09:14
  may not have even seen in themselves um and there's such a shift like a shift of gear within
• 2:09:21
  our own bodies when we experience seeing another like that that if we can then turn the eyes
• 2:09:28
  inwards and clock that same journey but to go inwards those same steps uh it's it's so powerful
• 2:09:37
  it's so so powerful so we take those same steps inwards bear witness bear witness to those
• 2:09:44
  difficult moments see that through those you have grown wise witness yourself as you see others in
• 2:09:52
  their highest potential see your soul doing everything that it came here to do
• 2:10:01
  and like that um yeah it's again it's that stepping into that vinyaya maya
• 2:10:19
  hmm
• 2:10:19
  Well, you just guided me into your own practice.
• 2:10:22
  I don't know if it was intentional,
• 2:10:24
  but thank you.
• 2:10:25
  Your eyes guided me.
• 2:10:26
  And I literally, it's like you're, I was seeing you
• 2:10:30
  and I love what you said.
• 2:10:31
  Cause at first I thought you meant they spoke about their experiences.
• 2:10:34
  I
• 2:10:34
  was seeing the soul that's been, that was so beautiful.
• 2:10:37
  That's been on this whole journey
• 2:10:38
  and all that they faced and the beauty that you can see in them and the complexity and that,
• 2:10:45
  oh that was so I literally like shifted dimensions so thank you so much I'm so excited for people to
• 2:10:51
  try that and definitely guided by you and the facilitation of Sosa will be so magical and then
• 2:10:58
  that looking within that was honestly a metaphysical experience that was so wonderful I
• 2:11:04
  guess all of life is a metaphysical experience wow you mentioned you do this with people quite
• 2:11:11
  often can you share more about that how did you what does that give to you I think it gives me
• 2:11:20
  empathy compassion connection to see another beyond the physical realm you know it it it
• 2:11:32
  taps into the fact we're all sensate beings and we all have soul work that we're doing here
• 2:11:38
  usually without knowing you know we'll never know the path that someone is walking or the particular
• 2:11:43
  chapter that their soul has opened them up into um when we see them and so it's a practice
• 2:11:50
  that i keep coming back to and it's one that i offer in in every single space that that i share
• 2:11:56
  there's a lot of repetition in the practices that we share at the school of central arts because
• 2:12:00
  i think there's a continual need to practice that compassion is a muscle empathy is
• 2:12:08
  it's a rep that you have to keep lifting and the more we lift it the easier it gets to kind of
• 2:12:14
  channel into that and to turn that inwards as well so when we're giving presence when we're
• 2:12:21
  giving empathy when we're giving compassion we're strengthening our own capacity to give that to
• 2:12:27
  ourselves as well and I think that's a wonderful muscle to flex for us all right absolutely
• 2:12:34
  Really wonderful.
• 2:12:36
  I love the word practice also, that it's a continual, even your spaces, you meet weekly, it's a continual devotion.
• 2:12:42
  And wow.
• 2:12:45
  I can only imagine like the compassion, empathy.
• 2:12:47
  I'm going to be, my best friend is arriving tomorrow in London and I'm so excited to try that with him, but also just with the world.
• 2:12:53
  It's, I really felt a big shift and I'm excited for people to experience that.
• 2:12:59
  Wow.
• 2:13:10
  one of the topics I would love to explore on this idea of
• 2:13:17
  the different actually wait no that's not one of the topics I would like to explore wow
• 2:13:21
  it's so moved oh my word I think also as you were explaining this this glorious moving through the
• 2:13:30
  scent you call them the centers and I know you're very intentional with your language
• 2:13:34
  you mentioned that you love to demystify are there anything around the chakras that you think
• 2:13:39
  in the collective are asking to be demystified and how the wisdom is moving?
• 2:13:44
  Yeah absolutely so
• 2:13:46
  in the west we hear of the seven kind of major chakras energy centers in the tantric system it
• 2:13:53
  says that we have around 114 different chakras and actually there could be more because a chakra is
• 2:14:02
  essentially anywhere that there is a conglomeration of your nadis which are the rivers in your body
• 2:14:09
  like your veins carry blood your nadis carry energy so anywhere that this happens a chakra
• 2:14:15
  can form and it just happens that these seven centers are where we have particular
• 2:14:22
  nerve bundles or organs that map to the physical body so that's how we know that we have
• 2:14:28
  big chakra centers here but we could expand that into like the smaller chakras that we have in
• 2:14:34
  between the other chakras and kind of go deeper and deeper and deeper um into them as well so
• 2:14:40
  I think that's probably a demystification um yeah wow oh my word oh my word okay I just need to make
• 2:14:49
  sure that we all receive that okay so popular culture tells us there are seven chakras but
• 2:14:57
  there could be in anyone there could be a whole range and there are 114 nadis yeah okay 114
• 2:15:04
  chakras yeah 114 chakra points according to one text 72 000 different nadis okay okay wow okay
• 2:15:11
  because it's like the veins carrying the energy wow but then i could have a chakra in my ankle
• 2:15:17
  but you could have oh my goodness wow that is so incredible okay so the chakras are where the
• 2:15:22
  nadis meet and there are how many nadis 72 000 said just magical beings reduced we are so much
• 2:15:32
  less than what we are oh my goodness i love to imagine like the chakras is kind of where the
• 2:15:37
  confluence of rivers meet so you know um i met a wonderful woman that i would spontaneously bump
• 2:15:45
  into in this one restaurant when i lived in beijing and we would somehow always end up on
• 2:15:51
  the same table and she shared with me that where the confluence of rivers meet one river meets
• 2:15:59
  another one body of water meets another there is a high charge of energy in that particular
• 2:16:06
  body of water so it's a good place to go and bathe like to clear the energetic system and i think
• 2:16:12
  that's a good metaphor for the chakra system as well it's where those rivers meet where there's
• 2:16:18
  this high voltage that can then begin to churn or create a chakra which is a wheel wow okay on my
• 2:16:28
  word wow and also so divine that you kept meeting this wise incredible woman wow okay so this this
• 2:16:36
  these meeting places ah my goodness there's something that came through for me
• 2:16:47
  I'm sure it will come back if it's intended to but that is just divine okay so knowing that these
• 2:16:52
  are these these energy centers and we can all now demystify that for within ourselves and for
• 2:16:58
  each other that's just so incredible oh it's reminding me of the shaking and how how does the
• 2:17:04
  practice of shaking tie to this idea of these nadis carrying around this energy
• 2:17:09
  Yeah.
• 2:17:10
  So it's said that within the system of the energy body, the nadis, we can form grantis.
• 2:17:19
  So grantis are knots which form in the energy body.
• 2:17:22
  But of course, we understand we have knots in our physical body as well.
• 2:17:25
  I'm immediately putting my hand on my shoulder because I have a lot of knots here.
• 2:17:29
  but you may feel that there is somewhere that just has a particular holding pattern within the body
• 2:17:35
  so the idea is that we want to clear those knots in the physical emotional and mental body
• 2:17:41
  in order for energy for shakti to flow right so so that's what these practices are doing and we
• 2:17:47
  can do that through movement we can do that through breath we can do that through sound
• 2:17:52
  and singing and also hearing vibrational sounds as well that will clear the different nadis as
• 2:17:58
  well so there's so many different ways actually we can do that clearing wow wow okay wow that's
• 2:18:04
  so helpful to to hear these different ways that we can it's so fascinating how these ancient forms
• 2:18:09
  of wisdom have known when people are like now like oh my gosh you have energy blockages it's like
• 2:18:15
  wow oh my gosh this sacred return to what we've always known and now yeah it's just so beautiful
• 2:18:21
  It's stunning to hear you say this.
• 2:18:26
  Before we go to our closing ritual, I'm curious if there's anything around the manifestation
• 2:18:31
  that we discussed.
• 2:18:33
  You write about desire also in a very powerful way.
• 2:18:35
  It's a word that I just love the vibration of the word desire and how so many people,
• 2:18:40
  you know, we feel like we don't deserve our desires or we have shame about what we desire.
• 2:18:45
  You mentioned earlier competing desires from society's spiritual ambition, spiritual
• 2:18:51
  wealth um what would you like us to know about desire your desires desire you back i love this
• 2:18:59
  one um yeah just this idea that for your desire to even exist within you uh there's a reason
• 2:19:07
  there's a reason that it does and something that i come back to because desire is another
• 2:19:14
  one on the spiritual path which is given a kind of bad rep that desires can't coexist with the
• 2:19:21
  spiritual path or there would be some kind of impediment that takes you off of it and one of
• 2:19:27
  the lovely mythologies that I like to come back to is Shiva and Shakti or Shiva and Parvati one
• 2:19:35
  of the forms of shakti manifestations and in this mythology shiva is this cosmic yogi as he always
• 2:19:43
  is and he goes into this kind of deep meditation and the world meanwhile is on fire and the gods
• 2:19:52
  all come together and they need to overcome a battle with an asura which is a demon and this
• 2:20:02
  demon can only be overcome by the child of Shiva.
• 2:20:09
  But they choose this boon, this particular rule,
• 2:20:12
  for a reason, because they know that Shiva is a yogi.
• 2:20:15
  He's not interested in procreating and he
• 2:20:17
  never will.
• 2:20:18
  So this is this way this kind of demon has this form of kind of growing stronger and
• 2:20:22
  stronger.
• 2:20:22
  It's like Shiva will never have a child.
• 2:20:27
  Shiva has no desire, like no desire,
• 2:20:29
  because he's Adiyogi, right?
• 2:20:31
  He's beyond desire.
• 2:20:33
  And so the gods get together and they entask
• 2:20:38
  Gamadeva, which is a kind of Cupid in the mythological stories, who holds a sugar cane
• 2:20:44
  bow made up of the five senses.
• 2:20:47
  And Shiva comes along and fires the bow at Shiva, who awakens
• 2:20:53
  from the meditation and sees Parvati going nearby.
• 2:20:57
  And of course, the gods have placed Parvati
• 2:20:59
  beautiful Shakti embodiment to go past at that particular moment and they fall in love.
• 2:21:05
  And when Shiva realizes that he's been kind of tricked into this by the gods, he fires,
• 2:21:18
  he shoots a big fire from his cosmic eye and burns Kamadeva to the ground.
• 2:21:23
  So Kamadeva represents
• 2:21:24
  desire, the arrows, the bows of desire that go out from our heart into the world.
• 2:21:31
  And Parvati
• 2:21:32
  becomes so enraged.
• 2:21:35
  She says, well, how is humanity going to continue, Shiva?
• 2:21:39
  Shiva,
• 2:21:41
  for humanity to exist, for you to even desire, for you to even meditate, you had to have had a desire
• 2:21:48
  to do so.
• 2:21:50
  So how can you say you are beyond desire?
• 2:21:53
  Without Kamadeva, you will also no longer
• 2:21:55
  meditate, right?
• 2:21:56
  So Shakti teaches Shiva a lesson there, that even the spiritual path is made up of
• 2:22:02
  desire.
• 2:22:03
  And so desire is actually placed through this mythology on a particular pedestal, right?
• 2:22:10
  It says that we need desire.
• 2:22:12
  Desire is that through which our very essence, our very being is here.
• 2:22:18
  your soul desires to be here that's why we're here so I love this story I love that story
• 2:22:27
  oh your soul desires to be here even the meditation is the desire even the desire to
• 2:22:33
  abstain the desire to be a descent a follower disciple of something it's all desire and all
• 2:22:39
  the art we love and the movies we love I love thinking about how desires this heartbeat
• 2:22:44
  underneath everything.
• 2:22:45
  And so that's so, so beautiful.
• 2:22:47
  I love that so, so much.
• 2:22:49
  And I love how you started what you desire desires you back.
• 2:22:53
  What do you mean by that side of it?
• 2:22:55
  So there's, we of course continue to desire, but I love the
• 2:22:59
  phrase, what you seek is seeking you.
• 2:23:01
  When you say what you desire dies, desires you back.
• 2:23:03
  What
• 2:23:04
  do you mean by that?
• 2:23:05
  What's coming through to me is that idea that your soul is recognizing
• 2:23:11
  something and so that something is recognizing your soul so i think for me that's what i mean
• 2:23:17
  by the desire desire desires you back because there's something in the plane of awareness
• 2:23:24
  that you are in that has recognized your soul in that thing right and if if everything here
• 2:23:30
  is shakti then it's something that like shiva desiring shakti it does she desires shiva back
• 2:23:38
  so that's what I mean it's like a calling force of union between that which is separated
• 2:23:45
  within you that which you desire longs to be in union with you
• 2:23:52
  it longs to return
• 2:23:53
  wow
• 2:24:04
  it's so stunning that our conversation is like this manifestation of that of that of that desire
• 2:24:10
  because you are on my vision board since I first heard about you I don't even know how
• 2:24:14
  it could have been through Sahara it could have been I don't actually know but I was like before
• 2:24:19
  I was like oh my word I really want to interview her she's so incredible and this was even before
• 2:24:23
  I reached out to you and then we had all these scheduling things in the manifest world that came
• 2:24:28
  with, I moved to London, kept being moved for health reasons.
• 2:24:32
  I mean, you were so graceful
• 2:24:33
  and understanding and that feeling of like, I was seeking to connect with you and that feeling that
• 2:24:39
  you were seeking to connect.
• 2:24:40
  It's so beautiful.
• 2:24:41
  Just incredible.
• 2:24:43
  I love that and how you describe
• 2:24:44
  that mythology of Shiva and Shakti and this desire that is underlying everything.
• 2:24:51
  I'm just so in awe
• 2:24:52
  that we get to learn from you and so grateful and honored because I just always see these two parts
• 2:24:56
  where this person had the same gifts,
• 2:24:58
  had the same capacities,
• 2:24:59
  had the same desire,
• 2:25:01
  but didn't act on it.
• 2:25:02
  Like I see a parallel you
• 2:25:03
  who just silenced that voice
• 2:25:05
  and didn't listen to the desire for more
• 2:25:08
  or the feeling of numbness
• 2:25:09
  and continued on that path
• 2:25:11
  and how much we are such beneficiaries
• 2:25:13
  and receivers.
• 2:25:16
  And I don't know,
• 2:25:17
  the word beneficiary is not resonating with me,
• 2:25:19
  but we're so lucky that you answered the call
• 2:25:21
  and you keep answering it
• 2:25:23
  because it's truly such a gift to learn from you.
• 2:25:24
  So I'm so, so, so honored.
• 2:25:27
  And I feel everyone listening to this is like going to want to read this book because I
• 2:25:31
  think language just moves through people and certain people in just these magical ways.
• 2:25:35
  Like you are, you have such a gift of, of explaining these things in a way that really
• 2:25:41
  touches the heart and clearly has been in the sacral.
• 2:25:44
  And now it's just, we're able to feel it and say, that's not Chachi PT.
• 2:25:48
  I'm glad that Chachi PT did not exist for all my work.
• 2:25:52
  Oh my goodness.
• 2:25:53
  Wow.
• 2:25:54
  such a topic of conversation oh my word but thank you yeah i really i i desire that all of us has
• 2:26:03
  within ourselves the worthiness that we can walk this path that our soul recognizes
• 2:26:09
  you know and that we don't walk the path of separation knowing that that alternative reality
• 2:26:15
  is there because each of us deep down knows what makes us alive like you said earlier it's often
• 2:26:21
  what like lit us up when we were children and you know podcast didn't exist when we were children
• 2:26:27
  youtube didn't exist when we were children but maybe you love to be in conversation or for me
• 2:26:33
  i love to dance i love to move i always loved that and that plays in the way that the school
• 2:26:39
  of essential arts runs its sessions you know there's movement there's embodiment um so each
• 2:26:45
  of us knows if we go back to those earliest days of what made us feel most alive or present or
• 2:26:50
  joyful and that's the thread that's that paradigm or that alternate reality that is walking alongside
• 2:26:57
  us even when we're in those moments of separation and can we bring ourselves into that path because
• 2:27:03
  it's there we already know it well the thread walking alongside us that alternate possibility
• 2:27:16
  the other paradigm that is such an incredible way to think about it that there that thread is always
• 2:27:21
  there and it's calling us home to live on that timeline and saying this is still possible this
• 2:27:25
  is still it's not too late you're not do this you're not do that it's all still here so I love
• 2:27:30
  where you started where you said may we all have the worthiness or the yes the faith also to believe
• 2:27:37
  that we get to live that that possibility in this lifetime um wow Henneka before we move to our
• 2:27:43
  closing chapter closing ritual um is there anything that we didn't get to go into or that
• 2:27:48
  you just feel called to return to express or share um that we haven't been able to touch today
• 2:27:55
  uh just something came through for me in the last share around that string kind of walking alongside
• 2:28:01
  of us and i thought about when a string vibrates you know it gives out a call so that's how we have
• 2:28:08
  our beautiful like guitar instruments and that call that we hear that desire to do something
• 2:28:19
  is that string vibrating it's that path vibrating and calling us onto it so if you hear that call
• 2:28:28
  if that desire comes to you and you're listening to it like dance dance towards it it's calling
• 2:28:35
  you there for a reason it's a summoning um so that really came came through for me in that moment
• 2:28:41
  when he when he described it as as that thread and if we can thread that one in to that experience
• 2:28:48
  of wholeness then we're really living that tantric path the vibrating string
• 2:28:57
  oh wow dance dance uh I see a cry beloved oh my word all your calls to us are part of our string
• 2:29:06
  so thank you for for being I feel like we were sent this message to call us home to that to that
• 2:29:12
  this is our dance you know as you manifesting as on our souls journeys to be a voice of that string
• 2:29:19
  and also through your story learning what it looks like for someone to listen to and dance and dance
• 2:29:24
  towards the strings.
• 2:29:25
  So thank you for honoring the calling, honoring the call of the music of
• 2:29:31
  your soul.
• 2:29:31
  It's so inspiring.
• 2:29:33
  And the fact that this is possible for all of us, especially if
• 2:29:36
  we allow ourselves to just take these tiny steps that you mentioned.
• 2:29:41
  Actually, before we go to our
• 2:29:42
  closing, the final invitation, I think that would be helpful for people.
• 2:29:45
  We've covered so many
• 2:29:46
  incredible topics.
• 2:29:48
  And I'm wondering if there are questions you'd invite people to really sit with
• 2:29:51
  after this conversation.
• 2:29:53
  And if anything is coming through for you, if not, that's totally
• 2:29:56
  beautiful as well.
• 2:29:57
  But anything that you think can be maybe a confronting question, but or an
• 2:30:02
  inviting question when we are sitting with this idea of honoring that soul's call.
• 2:30:08
  So I would maybe integrate some of our conversation with one of the parts that we
• 2:30:15
  talked about and that we shared in the sutra was writing down or coming into awareness of
• 2:30:24
  where is there currently a high voltage of sensation in my life so that could be
• 2:30:31
  the part of your current experience where you're experiencing whatever that high voltage is so it
• 2:30:38
  could be a fear it could be a particular experience it could be something else it could be sexuality
• 2:30:45
  it could be shame where is that um and then I suppose the second part would be if I walk one
• 2:30:52
  or two steps into that sensation and sit with it for a few moments where is that sensation asking
• 2:30:59
  me to expand what is it inviting me into into the heart and beyond what's in that beyond if you were
• 2:31:05
  to just sit in there for a minute or two and peer over that ledge what does life look like in that
• 2:31:12
  beyond um so maybe i'll leave it there those two what's the high voltage and if we can sit with
• 2:31:21
  that sensation what's in the beyond give you a few moments to breathe with that question
• 2:31:33
  those two questions such powerful invitations
• 2:31:50
  thank you so much wow thank you we have our closing seven so this is an invitation for you to
• 2:31:57
  share in one to two sentences your response and then we will wrap up with where people can find
• 2:32:02
  you and just stay in touch with your consciousness and all that you are and all that you are creating
• 2:32:08
  and sharing.
• 2:32:09
  And we'll also definitely link to all of Henneke's socials and the SOSA website.
• 2:32:14
  I hope that I can attend the next event in person.
• 2:32:17
  If not, I'll be at the next one after that.
• 2:32:19
  It's
• 2:32:19
  just so exciting and incredible.
• 2:32:21
  So our final closing seven.
• 2:32:23
  The first question is, if my
• 2:32:26
  inner child walked through that door, I would say to her, cry, cry, beloved, cry, cry, beloved, cry.
• 2:32:36
  Yeah.
• 2:32:37
  Oh, wow.
• 2:32:38
  That sounds like a poem, a book, a movie, all the things, a song.
• 2:32:41
  Love that.
• 2:32:43
  Number two, we could heal the planet by connection.
• 2:32:50
  Number three, in this season of my life, I'm giving myself permission to
• 2:32:56
  rest.
• 2:32:59
  On my path to purpose,
• 2:33:00
  the greatest fear I was invited to sit with is
• 2:33:03
  imposter syndrome.
• 2:33:08
  My work is dedicated to
• 2:33:14
  deeper connection,
• 2:33:16
  freer expression,
• 2:33:19
  and steepening in intimacy.
• 2:33:25
  together we can
• 2:33:32
  create the kind of world that we want to live in
• 2:33:37
  and lastly if there's one thing that you receive or take away from this conversation
• 2:33:43
  i hope it will be
• 2:33:48
  your sensations are your sacred messengers
• 2:33:51
  listen
• 2:33:56
  may you please say that one more time your sensations are your sacred messengers listen
• 2:34:07
  what a beautiful place to end thank you so much henneka may you please share your socials and
• 2:34:13
  website once more just so we can make sure we tap in thank you so much for this beautiful
• 2:34:17
  conversation i have loved this podcast and it has invited me to expand in so so many ways um
• 2:34:26
  so thank you for inviting me here and you can find me uh at www.schoolofcentralarts.co.uk
• 2:34:37
  my instagram is at henika h-e-n-i-k-a dot x and we have a subsection for the school school of
• 2:34:46
  and shalots mothers and lovers if that interests you um and yeah on the other socials now because
• 2:34:52
  of this podcast on youtube too annika so yeah hopefully see you across one of those where i
• 2:34:59
  continue myth busting demystifying tantra um and yeah i just look forward to hearing and maybe just
• 2:35:09
  also trusting that whichever part of this conversation has landed for you has awakened
• 2:35:16
  the part of you that is already already there to be witnessed so yeah thank you for inviting me and
• 2:35:23
  asking such wonderful questions um for us to explore thank you so much thank you thank you
• 2:35:31
  so much you are such a gift thank you thank you thank you we are so lucky we get to receive you
• 2:35:36
  and witness and learn from you.
• 2:35:38
  And this has been such a delight.
• 2:35:40
  I know that it's also your grandmother's birthday
• 2:35:41
  or your late grandmother.
• 2:35:42
  Yes.
• 2:35:43
  Happy birthday to her.
• 2:35:44
  She'd be so, so in awe of you.
• 2:35:46
  So proud of you.
• 2:35:47
  Thank you.
• 2:35:48
  Wow.
• 2:35:49
  The beautiful lineages that we all come from
• 2:35:51
  and we're wishing you an incredible birth
• 2:35:56
  and a wonderful chapter ahead.
• 2:35:58
  May you have all the support
• 2:36:00
  and all the sensuality
• 2:36:03
  that these next months bring to you.
• 2:36:05
  and thank you for being here.
• 2:36:06
  Everyone is so lucky
• 2:36:07
  that they get to continue walking with you.
• 2:36:10
  Thank you so much, everyone,
• 2:36:11
  for journeying with us and traveling with us.
• 2:36:14
  This has been the Soul Salon podcast.
• 2:36:16
  If this has landed for you, resonated with you,
• 2:36:19
  we would love if you could share it with a friend,
• 2:36:22
  a lover, a partner, a potential partner.
• 2:36:27
  And please, may we all go forth
• 2:36:30
  and live our most sensual lives.
• 2:36:32
  The book is called Sensual
• 2:36:34
  and we are all so lucky that we get to read it.
• 2:36:36
  I really absolutely love this book
• 2:36:39
  and it was really something
• 2:36:40
  that I was able to slow down with
• 2:36:43
  and allow the practices to be welcomed into my life
• 2:36:46
  and into my body and into my journey.
• 2:36:49
  So I'm so excited that you get to read it.
• 2:36:51
  We will link to it below.
• 2:36:52
  And thank you so much, everyone.
• 2:36:54
  And I will see you on the next soul session.
• 2:36:56
  I love you.
• 2:36:57
  Bye.
• 2:36:59
  My darling, my love, my soul sibling,
• 2:37:02
  thank you for stepping into the soul salon if you are still hearing or watching this we are soul
• 2:37:07
  siblings we are resonating on the same frequency and so something you may struggle with that i
• 2:37:12
  struggle with is the fear of being seen you know that visibility is involved in you living your
• 2:37:18
  creative purpose and being in your power serving the collective through your gifts through your
• 2:37:24
  magic through your medicine in order to do that you know you need to be more seen than you are
• 2:37:30
  allowing yourself to be right now.
• 2:37:32
  I have a gift just for you, heart made for us on this frequency.
• 2:37:37
  And it is a free ebook called the soulful visibility guide that is soulful visibility.
• 2:37:43
  Like we don't just want to be seen.
• 2:37:44
  We want to be felt.
• 2:37:46
  We want to be heard.
• 2:37:47
  We want to move and be
• 2:37:49
  moved.
• 2:37:49
  So I do have a free gift for you.
• 2:37:51
  And all you need to do is go to my website.
• 2:37:54
  I understood
• 2:37:54
  should.com and there you will be able to input your email address and receive this directly to
• 2:38:00
  your inbox this is such a juicy and delicious guide and i change the free offering every few
• 2:38:07
  months so you know get it while you can all the links are in the show notes so thank you so much
• 2:38:12
  i love you and i will see you on the next soul session okay i love you bye