Latest / The Growth Project / Episode 406: Talent Isn't Enough

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Episode 406: Talent Isn't Enough · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  thinking that you are the best at what you do makes it really hard to take feedback and even harder to implement that feedback. You know, if your coach or your boss gives you a piece of feedback, but you think you're doing everything perfectly, you're probably not going to do anything with it.
• 0:20
  And therefore stall and, and not seeing the opportunity to, you know, get better over time. Yeah.
• 0:28
  Welcome to the Growth Project podcast, brought to you by Angelo's doctors. Your brain, and joined by Doctor Gabby cavities. Good day.
• 0:37
  Doctors say good day. Good day. It's been a while since we've recorded one together. As I was beginning to take that personal.
• 0:46
  But it sounds like that has not been your doing. No, not my doing. Not my doing. Or take it personal. I'll just say good to be back together. Yeah, it's been a while. It has?
• 0:56
  Gabby, as we get into this topic today, discussing several different components of talent. The reason I think this is a really effective and important conversation is,
• 1:08
  it doesn't matter whether you're talking about the role of sports, any industry in the world of business. Big organizations, small organization. Everybody is thinking about and trying to figure out a number of things pertaining to talent, right?
• 1:26
  Like how do we go find and recruit talented people? How do we retain talented people? How do we elevate talent, talented people? All things talent. This is a really relevant discussion. Yeah. I mean, talent development is an entire sector of organizations now. So it's, like you said, very relevant and talking a little bit about, you know, you need more than just talent to sustain, you
• 1:51
  growth to, to accomplish your goals in life.
• 1:54
  Personally, professionally, it takes a little bit more than talent. So we'll be talking about that today. So let's start from the beginning. And, I want to kind of get the ball rolling like this. You've got an athletic past. I've got an athletic past. You know, as we think about, what do we really mean when we say talent?
• 2:14
  And for whatever reason, I kind of go back to like, that image of I can remember. But this is where all greatness begins, right? The YMCA soccer field. So, you know, at an early, early age. And I seen this like one way back when playing, and then coaching my kids for all these years. When you're talking about five years old, six years old, seven years old, like, really young kids, it's so fascinating to me how you can look at a soccer field.
• 2:45
  And it doesn't happen every game, obviously, but like you'll see over the course of season, there's always like one kid who is just playing an entirely different game and has a completely different caliber of skill set, speed, agility, skills. It's just it's it's like a different type of human that's out there. And so as you're thinking about like, what are we talking about?
• 3:10
  We say talent and there's many refers to talent. But like those are those are a real overt ways things begin to show up early in life for kids. Yeah, yeah. It's when you look out there and you see that kid who's faster than the others is able to, you know, have better hand-eye coordination. Some of these, you know, if you will, innate talents that are just more prominent for some than others or a better way of putting it develop more quickly for some than others, you know, and you see that kid at that age and it's easy to sit there and just be like, well, you know, she's going to be in the World
• 3:47
  Cup one day. How could she not be? All right, look, look what she's doing to all these other kids. Or, you know, it's the of the baseball game or the game of the kid who, like, no one in the whole league has hit a home run. And then you've got like, Johnny over here and he's got like 15.
• 4:03
  And you're like, well, he's not playing in the World Series one day. Yeah. Right. The odds are neither of them. Well right. Neither of them. Well and there's a multitude of reasons for that. But I just use those examples as kind of this as we begin to kind of get an image in our head of like when we say talented, like, what are we talking about?
• 4:19
  The answer is people that possess skill sets that are just superlative. Right. Like they have these skill sets that are at that age just separating them from everybody else. And early on that talent really I mean it opens the door but it also sets your pathway for you in a certain degree. Because if you know you're really good at shooting a basketball you're probably going to be more likely to specialize in that sport.
• 4:47
  is this early way of deciding which direction you go in life, whether that be with athletics or academics. You know, I know there's an entire, process for there used to be. I don't know if it still is a thing, but identifying gifted kids, academically and in that setting a different path for those individuals.
• 5:10
  So that talent really does open doors, but kind of create your early path in life. So let's take that example. Right. And I don't know if this still exists, but there was the Duterte program. Do you do you are you familiar with that now? So for for a long, long time, there was what's called the Duke University tip tip, which stood for Talent Identification Program.
• 5:33
  And so the way this worked was,
• 5:36
  I don't remember what grade it was. I want to say it was like late elementary school. So fourth, fifth grade or so time frame. It was a completely quantitative metric of kids that scored at a certain level on the national standardized testing that was done at that age.
• 5:52
  They became a tip scholar. Oh, wow, tip scholar. And they like I can still see that of not all, but some of the parents who were the proud parents of a tip scholar would take the bumper sticker mail to them. And what would they do with that? They would proudly display that on their, you know, vehicle, whatever that means, right?
• 6:13
  And so you even just think about that for a second. Oh, okay. Every time that kid was standing behind or like going to get in his or her mom or dad's car or like, think about the signal that was sending. Yeah. Right. So, like, so what message was being sent to that kid again? You're smart, you're smart, you're talented, you're different.
• 6:36
  Yeah. You're unique. Right. You've got a bright future, right? Think about all the undertones in there. There's a lot of pressure that comes along with that at a young age of, okay, well, the first time you make a bad grade or encounter a challenging topic in in school, maybe you start to question your abilities. You start to wonder, you know, maybe I'm not talented, maybe I'm not smart.
• 7:03
  And we talk about this all this time with creating, you know, environments for kids or for athletes, for our employees, where it's growth oriented and what that label does is it sets limits on your your potential. Right? Yeah. And look, here's some key words from my experience in my perspective working with high performers right about two decades plus now, some of the most dangerous words a person can think about themselves are words such as I'm special, or I'm different.
• 7:36
  Yeah. You might be special. You might have a skill set that is unique and different compared to others. But when the day gets here where people begin to think that they're special, in my experience, there's way more destruction that comes with that than anything else. Yeah, it's not a confidence issue. That's not what I'm talking about. Like, should people do we want people to believe that they're capable and confident?
• 8:04
  Absolutely. Yeah. But that word special, which I think is the signal that's being sent with something like a, a bumper sticker. Can be really dangerous. I completely agree that that shift from ability capabilities into innately I am one of a kind of I'm so special and I deserve success. Not that piece. I think it's key where it's you shift from earning success into deserving it.
• 8:31
  Yeah, yeah. And so think about what we're saying because you made a great point there about environment. And the truth is people who are talented, whether they are kids, adolescents, young adults, adults like me, you name it, they're they're treated differently. You're more than likely going to be treated differently if you possess that unique talent. Right. And sometimes that can be really problematic.
• 8:58
  And sometimes the talent isn't necessarily something that sets you apart, but it's this ability to make things look easy. Yeah. Great point. And it it's that where something that is innately challenging for me looks so easy when you do it. And so I'm sat here wondering how to what do they have that I don't. And you're sitting here thinking like, when am I going to be challenged?
• 9:21
  I'm I'm pretty good at everything I tackle. Nothing's going to stop me. Yeah, that's a great way to frame it. I think it's it's the ability to say where things look simple. Gosh, you do that so effortlessly. How do you do that. That's incredible. So what you really saying is like you know talent. It opens the door.
• 9:36
  It creates opportunity. It more than likely kind of sets you on a trajectory and pathway where you're treated pretty favorably. I mean that's the net of all that. Right. Yeah. Sometimes people that have a high level of talent, they are granted more latitude. They get a pass. We are forgiving of certain things. Why. Because they produce great outcomes.
• 10:01
  Yeah. I mean that's, that's really what it comes down to. So, so Gabby, that's when we say talent. That's what we're talking about now. Yeah. With that there's also an element of what's thought of is there's like a talent myth. So getting to that for a little bit. What do we mean. We say the talent myth.
• 10:20
  Yeah. And kind of goes back to what I was just talking about with this effortlessness. Right. It's this
• 10:26
  period in which we romanticize that natural ability, to make something look effortless. But the, the catch is and why it's a myth is that that talent is really just potential. Right. And and unless you bring that potential to fruition, unless you do something with that potential, that talent, then nothing's going to come of it.
• 10:53
  And so that is a dangerous myth to, to set into believing that. Well, just because this is easy for me, it means I will be successful. You know? Yeah. And I think, you know, on this effortless theme there, there's that great quote by Michelangelo that I'm going to butcher badly here at the moment. But the spirit of it is when it was, I think, after he painted the Sistine Chapel, and as it should be, it was people were just kind of in all and they really couldn't believe what he'd done.
• 11:27
  And he said something to the effect of like, if you knew, the time and effort and work I put into my craft. You think I wasn't any expert at all and that's kind of what you're saying. Are there people that are able to do their thing. And it looks effortless because they're supremely talented. Sometimes that's true.
• 11:53
  Other times it's because people have just worked really really really hard. Right. And if what you do looks effortless and you haven't worked hard, there's a tipping point around the corner. Yeah. That tipping point is it's fascinating because I think we see it all the time, especially in sports where you go from, you know, being a D1 recruit and you go to play at the collegiate level and now you're really hit with, you know, a team of people who are just as good, if not better than you.
• 12:26
  You're going up against people who are just as talented, if not more talented than you. And there is a tipping point like you said, of am I going to choose to put in effort and, you know, bring my potential all the way as high as it can go or do I back off because things got hard? Yeah.
• 12:47
  In the world of sports, I agree. I think that's the most common tipping point. I still remember, although it was almost 30 years ago now, which is wild. My freshman year in college playing basketball, we get into one of like our one of our first team meetings at Browns practices beginning in my freshman year. And my coach said he asked our team, we were all sit in our team room and he's like, okay, raise your hand if you were the leading scorer on your high school basketball team and everybody in that room except one guy who happened to play on like a really, really good team.
• 13:27
  Raise their hand. Yeah. And so the point was obvious here of like everybody in this room is pretty good at this sport. Yeah. There are no weaknesses here. Like this is going to be hard. And, the guy you're going to be guarding is, is going to be good. And I think to your point, one of the biggest, I think, stumbling blocks for a lot of people that are supremely talented is they get too far along in life and they haven't yet struggled.
• 13:56
  Yeah. Yeah. And so what does that mean? The habits and the and the behaviors and the resilience and. The grid and the things that are so important to build through your developmental years. They haven't done as much of that. Right. Because they haven't needed it. Yeah. And then it becomes a learning process of now I have to develop this skill.
• 14:20
  Whereas all these other skills came so naturally. Now the challenge of learning how to face adversity, learning how to respond to setbacks and failures,
• 14:32
  and the way that you put it is it resonates because there are so many individuals who maybe have, you know, gone through life and not experienced too many up until that one point. And then it's you're kind of fed to the wolves on how do you navigate this.
• 14:48
  And and so that's kind of what we work to develop is how do you respond to that type of situation, whether you're 20 years old, 30 years old, 40 years old, at some point in your life, this will happen and and talent won't be enough anymore. And I think, you know, we're focusing on sports here because we do talk a lot about talent in the sports context.
• 15:08
  But another common thing that I've seen that happens at this stage of the game is, people who are really gifted in a certain sport sometimes play that sport because they feel like they have to, you know, it's the guy who's like, like, let's imagine you're a male in your six, ten. You're going to play basketball. Yeah.
• 15:31
  You know how many? Six, ten, 15 to 18 year olds are there in the US who are not playing basketball? Probably not many. I don't think that you're probably going to play basketball. Right. Doesn't mean you like it. Right. You might but it's, it's a, it's a it's amazing how common it can be where people are really talented at something and they do the thing, whatever that thing is.
• 15:55
  But they haven't necessarily developed a love for it. I take that even into careers where, you know, you may be really good at math and you know we're in a tax, an accounting firm now. It's like oh you're really good at math. Well I'm going to go into accounting or finance or tax. And and so it's aligned with your strengths which is great.
• 16:18
  But you also have to have that passion. You also have to have that drive to get better if you want to make a career out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Particularly in from a career standpoint. You're going to spend a lot of time in your career. Yeah. Most of us are most people are going to spend multiple decades doing whatever that thing is.
• 16:45
  If you don't have a strong liking or better, you better yet, like you love what it is, it's going to be tough. It's going to be really, really tough. Goes both ways to the right where if you're really innately not good at something probably shouldn't shouldn't choose that. Yeah. So there is there is a value and a strength in aligning.
• 17:08
  You know the choice that you're making for your life, whether that be within sports or, you know, career focused in line with what you're naturally good at. But you also want there to be the component of do I genuinely enjoy this? Yeah. So I think just to close the loop on that part of it, the takeaway here is if you are innately talented in whatever domain it might be, that's awesome.
• 17:31
  Yeah. However, there will come a day where you are now swimming in waters full of talented people. And whatever that might be, if you lack the skills needed to persevere, show up on time, have some grit about you. You'll lose. I mean you will, you won't make it. And that's unfortunately I mean that's that great Calvin Coolidge quote.
• 18:02
  There's nothing more common in the world than unsuccessful people with talent. That's what he was talking about. Yeah. There's, there's so many people out there, there you've never heard of. They're incredibly talented at whatever it is. But you, you have no idea who they are because they're unsuccessful. Right. They don't they haven't developed the mindset or skill set needed to sustain that talent over time.
• 18:24
  So, Gabby, let's let's take it in this direction. We know there's this threshold, this reckoning day so to speak, where talent alone. No longer wins the day. And yet we still want you to be talented and good at what we do. So let's talk about the combination. Right. So if the talented people that lack certain attributes don't make it what are those attributes.
• 18:50
  So like what are the things that we want to combine with talent to really optimize people in teams. One of the first things where there's a lot of research on this, in the sports world, is this idea of deliberate practice and being very intentional with, putting in the reps. Right. Like getting getting reps in and practicing what you want to be good at takes.
• 19:15
  I believe the literature on this is 10,000 hours, of deliberate, deliberate practice to become an expert. Or, really good at what you do. And, and so think about that. That's 10,000 hours of saying intentionally, I'm going to go out and practice this skill, whether that's your communication skills, whether that's your time prioritization skills, whether that's, you know, a sports related, skill.
• 19:47
  It takes a lot of intentional practice to get you to that next level. Yeah, it's amazing to me, unfortunately, how common it it is for people to want to be really good at something. They really do. Or they haven't done that long. Yeah. And sometimes both those things. But you won't find people skilled at much of anything who haven't done it a lot.
• 20:16
  Yeah. And then that kind of gets into attention to it. But what is a lot. And I think that those that are looking to kind of shortcut that a lot sentiment, they won't make it either. There's no short cutting skill development right. There's no there's no way to you know meander around that. It takes actually practicing what you're trying to accomplish.
• 20:43
  That's right. So because the obviously what we get into here is just think about individual and individual B if they're both talented but individual A is is just getting wrap after wrap after wrap, that person is going to surpass. Stay ahead. Ultimately beat the other one. With very very very few exceptions. Yeah. Yeah. And I bring this into our current day and age with.
• 21:15
  Yeah. The reality is integration of AI. Right. If you're not practicing with using AI you're going to get left behind even if you are really good at your job. Right. You know, deliberate practice with this tool with this resource will be your differentiator. It's not one or the other. Right. So deliberate practice is huge. Another one I'll put in here.
• 21:37
  And these kind of go hand in hand is just consistency. You know you can't have just these kind of big peaks and valleys in how you go about whatever you do where you might have like high intensity for a certain period a year. But then real low intensity where there's a low concentration of reps and practice like I think there must be consistency because when you are in the valley, someone else isn't.
• 22:03
  And if that's your team, if that's you individual, whatever it is, like if you're in the valley and you are consistently showing up and engaging in favors maybe and see whatever they might be, someone else is. And it's consistently showing up for those things that are hard right. Like the things that you don't want to do.
• 22:22
  I'm working with an athlete right now and he's really good at his sport, is a tennis player. But he, he was saying, you know, he's in college and it's a whole different atmosphere environment of accountability. And, you know, certain things that he's doing for himself now, like eating healthy, drinking enough water, waking up in the mornings and going for a run.
• 22:42
  All of these things are things he doesn't want to do, but sees the value in, and knows that over time, that consistency compounds and it's going to set him apart. And it's just been fascinating seeing that that mentality because it is rare and it's, it's why it's what we're talking about, like that ability to do the hard things consistently.
• 23:02
  Yeah. And it's such a win win there because you could imagine two different scenarios. All the behaviors you just described are only going to elevate any individual. So if you if you have a ton of talent and you do those things, you are really going to take off. Maybe you don't have as much talent if you're doing those things it's going to level your game up so much.
• 23:25
  And are you going to be you know the best player in the state or the best player in the region. Maybe not. Yeah. But it really should never be about that anyways. It's about you maximizing your capabilities with the gifts that you've been given. And those are the precise things of types of behaviors and habits that elevate performance.
• 23:42
  And people regardless of talent get them. Yeah. So we've got deliberate practice consistency. I'll add another one here. Agility. So that ability to adapt and learn consistently over time.
• 23:56
  the world is the constantly evolving constantly changing whatever environment you're in, whether that sports or an organizational setting. There's constant changes. And that ability to learn and adapt and be agile is another key differentiator.
• 24:11
  Yeah. And I think it's both macro and micro. Because you're speaking to the macro of the environment what's going on in any landscape. It's also the micro of like hey you thought your day was going to go this way and it didn't. Yeah. You thought you were going to have this time to do this thing and whatever it might be popped up.
• 24:28
  And guess what? You've got to change the whole plan, right? Does that make you get sideways? Do you get frustrated? Emotional or whatever it might be? That's a real problem. Yeah. It can really hinder talented development, execution and all of it. Yeah. It when something doesn't go your way throughout the day, no matter how big or small, how do you respond to that.
• 24:51
  That's right. So call it agility. Call it resilience. There's a lot of it. Absolutely.
• 24:55
  Let's also hit here Gaby in this space. The element of this is so big for people. Talent coach ability. So why is that. But let's talk about that dynamic. Why can there be such a complexity when you are attempting to coach really talented people?
• 25:17
  It's a great question. You know, when you're really talented, it's something we talked about at the beginning. It builds your confidence. But sometimes that can turn into ego. And
• 25:27
  thinking that you are the best at what you do makes it really hard to take feedback and even harder to implement that feedback. You know, if your coach or your boss gives you a piece of feedback, but you think you're doing everything perfectly, you're probably not going to do anything with it.
• 25:47
  And therefore stall and, and not seeing the opportunity to, you know, get better over time. Yeah.
• 25:54
  I think those are all really important components of this. And then what I would add to that would be let's think let's go on the development track. Imagine you have could be a really Uber talented young athlete. Or maybe an Uber talented musician or whatever. Like, those are both normal examples that let's focus on athlete for a second.
• 26:16
  If you have a really Uber talented young athlete for the context of sports, there are going to be two primary influences in that child's life pertaining to sports, right? One is going to be the parental unit. Yep. Is that typically an objective unbiased. Like not even close. Yeah. So more than likely that parental unit is going to be highly complimentary supportive all those types of things for that young child.
• 26:50
  Yeah. Number two, that person's coach. You know who coaches young kids? Are they professional? Certified? Credentialed? No they're not. Yeah. Their parents, more than likely. They're volunteers. Yeah. These people are out there because they like coaching sports or being with kids, and they want spend time with their kids or some of them. So it's it's kind of like either that or they like, really, really want to win and both.
• 27:16
  Yeah. Yeah. So if you really, really want to win, you're going to like, heavily like, you know, nurture and prioritize this talented kid. So that kid doesn't have an understanding of what reality is or you're out there. You just want to kind of be with your kids and other kids. And you really don't know what you're doing when it comes to like, managing people and all that.
• 27:38
  Nor should you have to. You're just trying to volunteer your time. So that whole complex environment of like parents who are heavily biased toward kids and then coaches who don't know any better. Yeah. Or just have the wrong objectives in mind. All of that creates years and years and years of just this. Like prioritize esteemed kid.
• 27:59
  And then they show up to college. And that's why coaches call people like you and say help. Yeah. Athlete needs needs to be more coachable. We hear it all the time and it's it is just that I think you said it really well with that dynamic between the parents and the coaches at a young age, setting the tone.
• 28:18
  But then there is a piece down the road of the athlete, you know, taking ownership of that and and realizing, you know, do I want to get better or do I want to just be told that I'm really good? You. And you can see that whole collision that happens, right. Because there's a high likelihood that that kid was very much prioritized through the high school years.
• 28:39
  And they show up to college, which we already described as a tipping point. You get there and it's tough. Yeah. Everybody's good. And if you're not coachable well guess what. Someone else probably is. And you're going to end up falling behind. And you you've worked with a lot of coaches. I've worked with a lot of coaches and I've heard it plenty.
• 29:04
  I'm sure you have two coaches. A lot of times we'll pick the athlete who's coachable over the one who's insanely talented but not coachable. Coach ability is you know, when we think about the recruiting sales, it's definitely looked for and it should be looked for in a, you know, organizational setting as well. Yeah. They're normal people just like we are.
• 29:24
  They have their limits. They get tired. Yep. And they're not going to give up on a kid overnight. But there comes a point where they're just exhausted. They've had enough. And if the gap is manageable which it normally is by the time you get to college they're going to play the other kid.
• 29:38
  Okay, so, you know, we've talked about some of these, you know, differentiators if you will. But one term we we used in preparation for this was multiplier. And really what is a talent multiplier.
• 29:52
  Something that brings your talent to that next level. And we're going to be looking at three things here.
• 29:57
  Effort, humility and resilience. And I think the things we were just talking about with these things that sets you apart. They really need one of these three things, right? You need to put in some effort to deliberate practice.
• 30:15
  You you need to have some humility to be coachable and and resilience. I mean, think about agility that you mentioned it already. That is synonymous with the ability to bounce back and respond. So this is really what we're talking about with the multipliers are these three things that can have a huge effect on your talent and how far your talent takes you.
• 30:38
  Yeah, that's a great way to say like this. These are the add ons that determine how far it travel. So and we've been probably focusing a little heavy on kind of like the shadow side of talent because of the fact that there are those that are really talented people out there that unfortunately are not checking these other vital boxes.
• 31:00
  Yeah. Let's let's be clear, not everyone is doing that though. And so I think these these multipliers you're talking about, part of what that is, is when you find talented people who are checking all these boxes, okay. And like, these are the people that really sort of great heights, whatever their industry might be and and sustain it.
• 31:20
  These are the, these are the people who I mean, you know, become household names. Yeah. Yeah. The, the guy that we talk about a ton on the, on the growth project. Unfortunately we don't have any modern day examples of them because of the tragedy of of him die was Kobe. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So Kobe with me was an unbelievable talent.
• 31:41
  And then you hear about so many the stories people tell about him of unbelievable work ethic. Right. Unbelievable drive passion for what he did. Those are the things we're talking about. Where these are the things that just take that talent base and just surge it forward of how that person develops and excels. Yeah. And I will say one of the, you know, most frustrating parts of this for people in positions of leadership or coaching is when you see that raw talent and nothing happens with it, it's disappointing.
• 32:17
  Like you. Yeah. You see how great they can be. That potential. Component. But knowing that without these, you know, multipliers, it won't lead to success. It won't lead to, achievement, at least to that next level that you're referencing. Yeah. And you think about organization. I'm glad you mentioned that, too. The most attractive, candidates to hire are the ones who are balancing these two things.
• 32:47
  And when you find that candidate who is really talented. Yeah. You can just tell by the way he or she conducts themselves, interviews things critically but then is humble. You can't hire that person fast enough right. You're like man I know we kind of do our typical process and go through diligence and all that, but I would love to just say, let's do this.
• 33:11
  Yeah. Because unfortunately it can be kind of rare. Very rare to find someone that has both of those things. Why do you think that is. Well it's really because of what we've been talking about this whole time. It's that it's not really prioritized from a young age that, you know, you've got to have these things in combination with talent.
• 33:34
  It's oh you've got talent. Keep going. Press the gas. But we don't really spend time developing these multipliers early enough in life. And so, you know, that combined with everything being at our fingertips and, you know, being able to quickly find a solution to any question we have, like that effort piece that, you know, critical thinking piece, that ability to realize you don't have all the answers and have some humility becomes exceedingly harder.
• 34:09
  Yeah. Yeah I agree. And I think, you know, the one thing I would add to this, Gabby, is the other big, I think, difference maker where talent is the most valued, would be people who have the talent, but they also make people around them better. That is like I remember I think it was Phil Jackson who said that quote of he would much rather have, a player who makes the team great, than have a great player and it's just and you can see why.
• 34:44
  Right. Like if you were talented from an early age and you got all the attention and the acclaim, you weren't necessarily focused on making people around you better. That doesn't get as much acclaim. Right. So when you find those people who are talented, they're humble and they make the people around them better. I would hire those people.
• 35:05
  Yeah. Yeah. That sounds great. Yeah. And then you got to figure out how to hang on to them. Yeah. Because they're pretty fun. Yeah. That is the the challenge with this. But to your point, the people are rare. But when you find them, you know. Yeah, it's undeniable to them. So as we, as we're kind of wrapping up here in a moment, I want to point this out.
• 35:30
  I think much of this discussion and maybe I'm just kind of old fashioned. I think there's a lot of good news in here. Because I think that sustained success should have to be earned. Great. And that's a big part of what we're really saying is like if you have a sophisticated high level talent of some type, it will get you some results.
• 35:51
  Yeah. In the near term. Yeah. However that time will come. Don't know exactly when where things that are conscious decisions, effort based decisions to be made will show up. And the ways in which you navigate those things will determine whether or not that success is sustained. Yeah. And that's what I think it should be. I agree. That's why we preach effort that it takes effort.
• 36:17
  Nothing. Like you said. Nothing is, deserved. Everything is earned. And that mentality will get you so much further than I deserve. Success. Yeah. Right. So I think at the end of the day, we're not naive. We. You and I have both worked with extremely high performing people. Yeah. And one of the reasons they're who they are is because they're talented.
• 36:39
  Yeah. We get it. But I think what people will realize and time is they've got to build more than that. Rely on more than that. Yeah. Okay. Final thoughts from your standpoint. Oh I think I think you close it out. Well and just that reminder to, to put in the work, put in the effort and, and keep developing your talents.
• 37:03
  Yeah. And I think, you know, the people that fall in love with that pursuit. Talking about not just stay in it longer. They enjoy it more along the way. And those two things are very much intertwined. And you just naturally speaking you will want to stay in it longer. If you're enjoying what you're doing. Yeah.
• 37:26
  Intrinsic motivation. There's a reason for it. Okay. Well we are always thankful to you for tuning in. Thank you for your loyalty to the growth Project. We value your feedback. We value you as listeners. And we look forward to our next conversation. Thank you. Thank you.