Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 12 - Who is the REAL OG?

Transcript

Ep. 12 - Who is the REAL OG? · Martyr's Row

• 0:00
  Jude, the brother of James, was commonly called
• 0:07
  Thaddeus. He was crucified at Edessa, 72 AD.
• 0:38
  Jude's a pretty to -the -point guy, huh? He just
• 0:41
  got it done. He's like, I know what I want to
• 0:43
  say. I mean, in his epistle, even in his death,
• 0:47
  what was written about him, real short. To the
• 0:50
  point. Real simple. They're like, he was alive,
• 0:52
  he had a brother, and then he died. Yeah. Very
• 0:55
  unlike us. Yeah. I don't know about you. Let
• 0:59
  me ask you, what's your favorite chapter of Jude?
• 1:01
  I think for me, it's got to be the first chapter.
• 1:03
  Yeah, definitely, especially towards the end
• 1:05
  of chapter one. Yeah. I really like how it concludes.
• 1:13
  I love how the people that know are like, huh.
• 1:18
  Yeah. And the people that don't know are like,
• 1:19
  how does it end? And they're going to go and
• 1:22
  realize. But the funniest thing is that even
• 1:24
  the people that know are now questioning themselves.
• 1:27
  Like, wait, what's so what's a what? Yeah. But
• 1:31
  you know, it's funny. It's actually like a triple
• 1:34
  layer, too. In what way? because there's a piece
• 1:37
  toward the end of Jude that we actually do like
• 1:40
  a lot yeah Jude is one of those anomalies yeah
• 1:46
  there's actually a lot of layers to it you just
• 1:48
  I know I know and to be honest I didn't even
• 1:51
  think about that I was just being like cheeky
• 1:55
  yeah you know and it worked out it did I'm glad
• 1:58
  I like when it works out So like one of the things
• 2:02
  I was thinking, speaking of the ending of Jude.
• 2:04
  Yeah. So I think that this, I had this thought
• 2:07
  the other day and I thought it was really funny
• 2:09
  and this might be a little heavy for this part
• 2:11
  of the podcast. Welcome to Martyrs Row by the
• 2:14
  way. Welcome back. Yeah, but my thought was there
• 2:19
  is like, Paul says we do not wrestle with flesh
• 2:23
  and blood, right? So that means that And the
• 2:27
  Bible paints this picture all the way through,
• 2:29
  that there's this other side, there's this unseen
• 2:31
  space, there's this unseen realm, to use that
• 2:35
  phrase. You're giving them no space to breathe?
• 2:39
  And in that unseen realm, it's almost like what
• 2:45
  we do here is not affecting there, but instead
• 2:49
  what's happening there is affecting here. That
• 2:52
  like how we exist is more of a byproduct of the
• 2:56
  spiritual space, even though we can influence
• 2:58
  it the other way. So like both things are happening
• 3:02
  at once. What I mean by that is there's this
• 3:04
  interplay between both spaces that are just as
• 3:07
  critical to each side. The interesting thing
• 3:11
  though is they can see us, but we can't see them.
• 3:15
  So it's like one side of glass. It is. It's the
• 3:19
  weirdest part. Because to them, and by them I
• 3:22
  mean every other spiritual entity and being and
• 3:26
  life creation under God's kingdom and all that
• 3:32
  He has created, it all exists actively with a
• 3:37
  lot of awareness of what the Lord is doing. Not
• 3:42
  full awareness, but a lot of awareness. But however
• 3:47
  We on earth were created for a very specific
• 3:51
  purpose. Yeah true in a very simple way That
• 3:56
  really we're just supposed to focus on the earth.
• 3:58
  Yes on the ground, you know, like quite literally
• 4:01
  We're just supposed to focus on the ground Yeah,
• 4:04
  you know, it's funny when you say that because
• 4:05
  I think that's where Why we're running why we
• 4:08
  run into all the issues we run into today is
• 4:11
  because we tried to take I mean, in the beginning
• 4:15
  of it, as far as like, us taking accountability
• 4:19
  for the fall of the earth and the fall of man.
• 4:21
  Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We definitely did that.
• 4:23
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It is like, that's on us. Oh,
• 4:25
  yeah. It's like we invited this thing and we
• 4:27
  gave authority to this thing that wasn't supposed
• 4:29
  to have authority. Right. And then it continued
• 4:32
  to fall. into more and more. And then we had
• 4:35
  some extra influence. That's true. And it's like,
• 4:37
  there's a lot of things at play that wasn't supposed
• 4:40
  to be there. And that influence is why we weren't
• 4:43
  supposed to. Yes. Because of what that influence
• 4:46
  could do to us. Because we gave authority to
• 4:47
  something that wasn't supposed to have authority
• 4:49
  on the earth. Yeah. It's like me telling my kid,
• 4:50
  hey, don't go play with that kid over there.
• 4:53
  Yeah. Yeah. He's going to lead you down a path
• 4:55
  that's not good. Or potentially that, yeah, maybe
• 4:58
  it's fine. But like, you know. But my point in
• 5:01
  all of that, to frame that, is I think it's kind
• 5:04
  of funny that through the centuries, we on Earth
• 5:09
  have been trying to navigate and categorize the
• 5:13
  unseen realm. All the while, they all know how
• 5:18
  they work. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't. We don't
• 5:21
  get it. But they can see us organizing their
• 5:25
  world. True. Well, you know what's so funny when
• 5:29
  you say this? This is the most me question I
• 5:32
  could. Well, it's funny, this is where my brain
• 5:35
  goes and I'm definitely jumping ahead and it's
• 5:38
  good to bring this in so early because it can
• 5:40
  cause a lot more questions. But it's like, I'll
• 5:44
  start with this. It makes me laugh back in 2020
• 5:47
  when that all happened. The way the future is
• 5:50
  looking, I was like, how is it that a All the
• 5:53
  apocalyptic sci -fi writing, all this and that.
• 5:56
  Demolition, man, with Sylvester Stallone got
• 5:59
  it the closest. And what's funny about that is
• 6:05
  now, with how we look at the spiritual realm
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  and how the Bible paints it, it's like, how is
• 6:12
  it that Stranger Things got it the best? I know.
• 6:15
  With how the reality works with the upside down?
• 6:19
  Yeah. And it's like, well, that's it. Like it's
• 6:23
  not perfect, but it's like that's actually a
• 6:24
  pretty good image of what happens here where
• 6:26
  they can't see the upside -down world Yeah, but
• 6:29
  the upside -down can interact with them and influence
• 6:32
  them and see what's going on. Yeah with this
• 6:34
  ethereal version of yeah without breaking the
• 6:37
  plane Yeah, yeah, and that's the like and that's
• 6:40
  like that's where you have the whole concept
• 6:42
  of like chicken before the egg or Life imitating
• 6:46
  art. Yeah that idea. Yeah And in reality, I think
• 6:51
  really what we learned from the Bible is that
• 6:54
  art is influenced by another realm. There's not
• 7:02
  really a way to flip that. That's what we were
• 7:03
  just talking about a few episodes ago with Ezekiel.
• 7:08
  in the Prince of Tyre and the King of Tyre. It's
• 7:10
  like, that's what it is. You have this human
• 7:12
  person that has this influence from something
• 7:15
  else. Yeah, and they're both very real. Yes.
• 7:17
  But one of them is very aware of their influence
• 7:20
  on the other. Absolutely. The other one, the
• 7:23
  human version, is kind of aware because they're
• 7:29
  surrendering their life to that entity, but they're
• 7:33
  not getting a whole lot in return. in the sense
• 7:37
  that they're not just hanging out with a buddy.
• 7:40
  It's not like all of a sudden they can see everything.
• 7:45
  But the funny thought that I was having is I
• 7:50
  was just thinking, you know, we spend all this
• 7:52
  time, and in some ways, this whole podcast is
• 7:55
  in the tradition of this, is trying to organize
• 7:58
  and categorize the unseen realm. And as we do
• 8:03
  that, we are literally like, as Paul says, looking
• 8:07
  in a mirror dimly. We're just kind of a bunch
• 8:09
  of like blind leading the blind. Yeah. In a way
• 8:13
  that's like, but the funniest thing to me is
• 8:16
  that right on the other side of the veil, they
• 8:19
  can see us doing it. And they're like, dude,
• 8:21
  that's not right at all. That's not even close.
• 8:23
  That's not even close. I'm right here. I'm looking
• 8:27
  around like, what are these guys doing? Well,
• 8:31
  I think that's funny. It's like even that idea,
• 8:33
  and I think it's a beautiful idea, which is the
• 8:35
  chaos to order. Yeah. from chaos to order and
• 8:38
  it's like what we're doing now, what we're trying
• 8:40
  to do is let's parse through what is chaos and
• 8:45
  let's try to make it orderly. That's true. I
• 8:47
  mean that's part of why we're doing this podcast
• 8:49
  when we have these conversations. It's like here's
• 8:51
  all these chaotic thoughts and ideas, let's try
• 8:54
  to organize them and fit them into this world.
• 8:56
  That's a good point. Like in some ways our brains
• 8:59
  are scrambled. Absolutely. like it's like that
• 9:04
  uh men in black thing it's like our brains are
• 9:06
  just like wiped and so we have to figure out
• 9:09
  like how to like how the uh the kingdom of god
• 9:13
  works yeah again and it said we have to bring
• 9:16
  up hollywood like three times to talk Well, and
• 9:21
  that is like, that is the most interesting thing.
• 9:23
  So stay tuned till the very end of the podcast.
• 9:27
  There's a little teaser. Because there might
• 9:29
  be something coming that you haven't seen yet.
• 9:33
  If we actually get to it this time. Hey, the
• 9:36
  viewer now is in the unseen realm. We are in
• 9:40
  the scene realm. I don't think there's a better
• 9:43
  way to conclude this segment. It's perfect. Three,
• 9:46
  two, one. Your name was Jude Your brother was
• 10:02
  James You gave your life The name of our Lord
• 10:11
  Who died for us but she wrote about how he lived
• 10:27
  and he died but he rose again Welcome to the
• 11:05
  writing corner. Welcome. I like that. Isn't that
• 11:08
  fun? Yeah. It's very different than we've done.
• 11:12
  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially since my back's
• 11:15
  turned to you. That's also different. But yeah,
• 11:20
  I really like it. Also, it's fun that it's actually
• 11:23
  like our second time ever playing it together,
• 11:26
  too. Yeah. So like we just heard it. Yeah. So
• 11:28
  Paul came in with this one. Yeah. The drums were
• 11:31
  already set up. because we're in a studio and
• 11:33
  that happens. And we just decided to run with
• 11:36
  it. Yeah. So, yeah, I think I think maybe we
• 11:40
  give it one more shot. It'd be cool. Yeah. And
• 11:43
  how about do do that like that like instrumental.
• 11:50
  Yeah, the refrain section and then go back to
• 11:53
  the verse. This part, the. Yeah, that's singing.
• 12:02
  Yeah, okay. Your little refrain is the same progression
• 12:05
  as the verse Yeah, it's the same thing. Yeah,
• 12:07
  so just go back into the verse. Oh, okay to hear
• 12:10
  it again and then play it out One more time like
• 12:14
  kind of loop the whole thing again. Oh, I can
• 12:16
  do that. You know, yeah Yeah, so do that like
• 12:19
  little refrain and then go back to the top of
• 12:21
  the song Okay. Yeah, let's do it. Cool. I hope
• 12:26
  you like this Yeah, me too. If you feel like
• 12:28
  it's like some bedroom like Yeah, chill like
• 12:32
  chill hop Yeah, you're uh, yeah got blankets
• 12:36
  on the drums real classic vibe. I Like it. It's
• 12:41
  nice. It's the most real nice Also, we have headphones
• 12:45
  on which feels great it actually does it's funny
• 12:48
  how it makes us talk softer I know so we can
• 12:51
  actually hear ourselves. It's kind of cool You
• 12:54
  ready for it? I'm ready. Yeah. All right. Let's
• 12:56
  let's try one more time cool Your name was Jude
• 13:15
  Your brother was James You gave your life In
• 13:25
  the name of our Lord He died for us and our sin
• 13:33
  But she wrote about how He lived and He died
• 13:45
  but He rose again Your name was Jude Your brother
• 13:56
  was James And you gave your life Of our Lord
• 14:06
  Who died for us in sin That you wrote about He
• 14:21
  lived and He died But He rose again da da da
• 14:32
  da da da da da da da da da da da da da Welcome
• 15:01
  back. Oh, this feels like a transformation. It's
• 15:03
  actually funny because usually we're in the same
• 15:05
  spot and stuff just appears and disappears Oh,
• 15:08
  that's true, but this one that the whole shot
• 15:09
  actually switches. Yeah, that's true. So I'm
• 15:12
  interested to see how the snaps go Like you snap
• 15:17
  over here and suddenly oh, yeah, that's gonna
• 15:20
  be might actually work out maybe the whole Maybe
• 15:24
  the whole songwriting bit you can just flip the
• 15:27
  whole thing upside down So not only are we in
• 15:31
  the wrong place we're also upside down The song
• 15:36
  the vibe of the song feels like you could also
• 15:38
  add some like a little bit of like a rainbow
• 15:40
  Yeah, like the like what is that like polarized
• 15:44
  almost? Yes. Yeah, you flip it upside down and
• 15:47
  make it like polarized rainy film Yeah, and then
• 15:50
  in the spaces where we're talking just make it
• 15:52
  normal and then when the music starts doing it
• 15:56
  again. I like to just make the editing as complicated
• 16:00
  as I can for Paul. To where I just go out to
• 16:06
  the end I'm like, I'm not doing that. But instead
• 16:09
  I'm gonna edit you disappearing from the frame.
• 16:13
  Or you're gonna do something that's way more
• 16:15
  complicated. That sounds like me. And spend the
• 16:18
  whole time on it. I'm like, what if I just blurred
• 16:20
  out his thumb? That should only take three weeks.
• 16:25
  Three weeks go by. Where's Paul at? So how's
• 16:28
  that edit going, Paul? It's still going. But
• 16:32
  you cannot see your thumb. Your thumb is gone.
• 16:35
  What are you talking about? All right, all right,
• 16:37
  all right, all right. All right, Paul, enough
• 16:41
  pandering. Enough lollygagging. Pandering is
• 16:45
  not the right word. No. Let me turn the snare
• 16:46
  off. Sounds like we might get something. I also
• 16:48
  like that no one can see what I just did. They
• 16:51
  actually don't know the drums are still right
• 16:53
  there. Yeah, I'm like almost sitting on the drum
• 16:55
  set. It's called movie magic. Here we are. We'll
• 16:58
  get into that later. We'll get into that later.
• 17:02
  I just have the movies on my mind. Yeah. Okay,
• 17:06
  so tonight I actually... Have a question For
• 17:16
  you to ask me Yeah, I guess his pot this podcast
• 17:23
  this particular one is very it's very dual layered
• 17:27
  Triple layered triple layered. Yeah, it's like
• 17:31
  a tiramisu. Ooh, I don't know how I feel about
• 17:34
  tiramisu. I'm not a huge fan actually Yeah, I'm
• 17:38
  not either but I like that. It's around It's
• 17:43
  just the idea of like lady fingers. See, that's
• 17:47
  a whole other topic. And then espresso that you're
• 17:49
  not drinking. Yeah. Yeah, I just don't like the
• 17:52
  names of some of those. That's what I mean. Like
• 17:54
  who decided ladyfingers Yeah, did someone initially
• 17:57
  cut off a lady's finger? Can I ask if we have
• 18:01
  any any UK listeners here? Can you explain that's
• 18:04
  right like your language? Like why why did you
• 18:08
  name the things that you named? Can you explain
• 18:10
  all of the UK? They're like, oh, yeah, that's
• 18:13
  a deadly squad over there. That's a terrible
• 18:15
  accent It's like what looks like an Amish Irish
• 18:20
  person. Yeah, I want more Amish with it Can you
• 18:30
  pass me these quotes there? I grew up eatin'
• 18:34
  the stuff. That's what Oliver twisted. Yeah,
• 18:38
  now it's like 1800s on a pirate ship. I like
• 18:42
  this, it's just evolving. It's pretty good. But
• 18:46
  that was the thing that I always laughed at,
• 18:48
  because I actually took a couple courses over
• 18:51
  there. One summer. Over where? In London. Okay.
• 18:55
  I was like, where are we at now? Like, you've
• 18:58
  transported in time. And so it was funny, like,
• 19:02
  that was the thing I saw, I was like, I don't
• 19:03
  even know what this is. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I don't
• 19:06
  I don't know. And like the I don't know. Anyway,
• 19:09
  that's a whole different. Yeah. And to be honest,
• 19:11
  like, you know, we love etymology and all that
• 19:13
  stuff. Yeah. But it is one of those things where
• 19:15
  it's like technically it's our fault that we
• 19:18
  don't understand. We're the ones that left. Yeah,
• 19:20
  that's true. So it's kind of on us. Are we kind
• 19:24
  of like the Amish then in that way? I'm not,
• 19:27
  I don't think anyone's like the Amish. Kind of
• 19:28
  like disconnected. Our language just stopped
• 19:31
  at a certain period of time. Yeah, true. No,
• 19:35
  ours evolved. We just disconnected from them,
• 19:37
  that's all it was. Actually, does - Do you actually,
• 19:40
  do you know the reason that we call it soccer?
• 19:42
  Yeah, we've talked about this. We have? Okay.
• 19:46
  And you were about to go into a 30 minute conversation.
• 19:49
  I was. You need to stop me. All right, ask your
• 19:51
  thing. I think that was a tipsy episode. Oh,
• 19:54
  I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. So if you want to
• 19:57
  understand UK listeners why we call it soccer,
• 20:01
  it's actually your fault. You did this to us.
• 20:03
  Go listen to Tipsy Theology. It's the ultimate
• 20:05
  prank. Yeah. But yeah, OK, so let's just get
• 20:09
  into it. Let's do it. Because we have a tendency
• 20:11
  not to do that. We like hanging out, guys. That's
• 20:14
  why we made this podcast. So I have a question
• 20:17
  for you to ask me. Okay. I'm ready. You with
• 20:20
  me. Yeah. Okay, so it's right here. Okay I'm
• 20:24
  a big fan of pocket. I love it. It's in the pocket
• 20:26
  here. Let me you do you have a pocket to you
• 20:34
  know what I need I feel like I need to get a
• 20:40
  pocket tea now. Do you need reading glasses?
• 20:44
  I've never been a huge fan of pocket teas, but
• 20:46
  you're inspiring me to give it another go. It's
• 20:48
  an extra layer of comfort. Yeah, I feel like
• 20:51
  a... I've already told you why. How I feel about
• 20:55
  them. You need to balance it? No, I just feel
• 20:56
  like someone's gonna just stick their hand. That
• 20:59
  will happen. Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of.
• 21:01
  It doesn't happen much to me. I think because
• 21:03
  of your personality, people will do it to you.
• 21:05
  Yeah, because people... one of my pet peeves
• 21:08
  ever meet me is when people like you ever meet
• 21:11
  me if you ever meet me when people like rest
• 21:15
  themselves on my shoulder yeah i i just don't
• 21:18
  like it yeah that's like a height thing though
• 21:22
  that's what and most of the time it's people
• 21:23
  that aren't that much taller than me it's making
• 21:26
  them feel taller if that must be it the thing
• 21:28
  is paul is i've definitely done that to you many
• 21:30
  times I actually don't remember you ever doing
• 21:32
  that to me. That's good. That means it didn't
• 21:34
  bother you. Yeah, it might just be who does it.
• 21:37
  That's always true. It doesn't matter what it
• 21:41
  is. I feel like such a hypocrite right now. So
• 21:48
  if you ever meet Paul, be a cool person and then
• 21:51
  you can do whatever you want. That's true. I'll
• 21:54
  probably let you get away with it. Because I
• 21:57
  do have double standards. Alright, I gave you
• 21:59
  the note, Paul. I have a question for you from
• 22:01
  you. Okay. For from... What? Okay. So... Stephen.
• 22:13
  All ears, Paul. Who is the real OG? Did you do
• 22:22
  you mean og I Like how I made you look dumb while
• 22:31
  writing the question that you were gonna ask
• 22:33
  me But I like you so I let you get away with
• 22:38
  it So the question is who is the real og That's
• 22:47
  a good question. It's what's an odd That's not
• 22:52
  something I was prepared for. Because what is
• 22:54
  an aug, I believe an aug is something. Is it
• 22:57
  actually? I think so. If you're watching this
• 23:00
  or listening, in the comments below, tell us
• 23:03
  what an aug is. Actually, just go to Reddit,
• 23:06
  and whatever the Reddit thread is for aug, just
• 23:09
  drop it in. Unless it's what we're already talking
• 23:12
  about, then that might be pretty destructive.
• 23:17
  That might be a really bad idea. um yeah so maybe
• 23:21
  a better question okay who is aug so okay so
• 23:28
  yeah good question who is aug there you go i
• 23:33
  asked a question to myself from you that was
• 23:36
  leading you to the question you needed to ask
• 23:37
  me but i still feel encouraged Yeah, it's weird
• 23:40
  how that works. So many layers guys. I got the
• 23:43
  question wrong so you could get it right. I love
• 23:45
  it But you asked it both times Socrates would
• 23:51
  be so proud Socrates known pagan yeah, so That
• 24:04
  actually would sell, that would do really well.
• 24:06
  That's pretty good. I think I would wear it.
• 24:08
  I would probably too. Just because it would be
• 24:09
  fun to wear. Known pagan. Oh man. We have to
• 24:15
  just write a note. There's a decent amount of
• 24:17
  good shirt ideas. All the t -shirts ideas we've
• 24:19
  had in here. Yeah, actually if you're watching
• 24:21
  this, go in the comments and please write that.
• 24:24
  Give us a list, email us a list. Paul at martyrsroad
• 24:28
  .com. It's a real email. I don't have access
• 24:31
  to it. but it exists. I think you will by the
• 24:35
  time they see this. Honestly, you may not. If
• 24:41
  not, then steven at martyrsroad .com. Which weirdly
• 24:45
  forwards to... Oh yeah, I don't have access to
• 24:49
  it. So just write it in the comments. Just email,
• 24:52
  we'll get to it when we can. Yeah, we'll figure
• 24:54
  it out. You'll figure it out before we do. Hopefully...
• 24:58
  In like four months when this goes out, we have
• 25:02
  access. Yeah, true. So, I mean, that dates us
• 25:08
  a little bit. I probably shouldn't have said
• 25:10
  that. Just bleep it out. No, I'm just kidding.
• 25:13
  Just boop! No, no one will know. OK, so ask the
• 25:20
  question one more time. Your question, not my
• 25:23
  question to me from you. Steven. Peter Howell.
• 25:30
  I feel like Paul would have been better. Yeah,
• 25:32
  Peter Paul Howell. Peter Paul Howell. Wait, it
• 25:35
  would have to be Steven Peter Paul Howell. Yeah,
• 25:38
  which is funny because I actually know your middle
• 25:39
  name, but I chose to give you a new one. I prefer
• 25:41
  it. Yeah. Who is... Og? Okay. You wanted to say
• 25:49
  the real. I did. Og. It's like a Netflix doc
• 25:54
  now. So... Okay, so this is one of those questions
• 25:58
  that like, I feel like we've done this throughout,
• 26:01
  but we haven't quite hit it on the nose because
• 26:03
  one of the things that, like one of the raw and
• 26:06
  simple forms of why this podcast exists in the
• 26:09
  first place is because, it's because we want
• 26:14
  to be able to talk about and ask the questions
• 26:17
  that you would typically ask or want to ask in
• 26:22
  the hallway, in the back hallway of a church
• 26:25
  after service. Yeah. Or before service. And this
• 26:28
  is one of those questions for me. So, this is
• 26:31
  one of those questions for me where I've been
• 26:33
  like, there seems like there's a bunch of things
• 26:36
  and people and stuff going on in the Bible that
• 26:38
  I'm like, huh? What is this? So, Og is, oddly
• 26:45
  enough, I've never heard, and maybe it's just
• 26:49
  because I fell asleep or like wasn't listening.
• 26:51
  I don't think I've ever heard anybody, like I've
• 26:53
  never been sitting in a service on a Sunday or
• 26:57
  a Wednesday in my life, in any place that I've
• 27:00
  been in, and someone start talking about Og,
• 27:04
  or even mention Og. Please tell me you have.
• 27:08
  I feel like I've heard it in passing. I don't
• 27:12
  even think I've heard that. As far as they read
• 27:14
  the verse that mentioned him, but that was it.
• 27:17
  But I feel like that's realistic. Which is because,
• 27:20
  I don't know if I'm giving anything away here,
• 27:22
  but he's... I think there are about 80 references
• 27:25
  with his name throughout the books of the Bible.
• 27:28
  22. There's 22? I read 80. No, I think there's
• 27:32
  more. No, I'm pretty sure there's 22. Hold on,
• 27:37
  let me see. Paul has a notepad tonight. I do.
• 27:40
  So we're about to get real scholarly. I mean,
• 27:42
  I didn't write them all down. Here's the thing
• 27:44
  about - Oh yeah, 22 times. Yes. What's the 80
• 27:46
  for? I don't know. I actually - I have that number
• 27:48
  in my head. Well, when you say that, that reminds
• 27:50
  me of an earlier episode where somebody else
• 27:53
  has mentioned 80 times. Yeah, you're right. Son
• 27:55
  of man. Son of man. That's what I'm thinking
• 27:57
  of. Yes. Wow, I just listened to that episode.
• 27:59
  I'm so glad that we got there. I just listened
• 28:02
  to that episode. I'm so glad that we - We got
• 28:04
  there. So for the listener, we solved that puzzle
• 28:08
  for you. Yeah. Which you didn't care about at
• 28:10
  all. But anyways. 22 times. Yes. Wait, why do
• 28:15
  you have a notepad about that if I asked you
• 28:17
  the question? I don't know. The mysteries. I
• 28:20
  think you wrote this note. We're really behind
• 28:22
  the scenes on this episode. This is some back
• 28:25
  room stuff going on. It is. This is welcome to
• 28:28
  the bedroom episode. We shouldn't call it that.
• 28:30
  Don't say that. Well, we are talking about Og.
• 28:35
  There's so many layers. Why are we like this?
• 28:39
  You mean like so good at podcasting? Yeah, we're
• 28:41
  really good. We don't even know how good the
• 28:43
  power we have. Oh, man. And the thing is, is
• 28:46
  no one cares. No. It's awesome. They're just
• 28:48
  in the comments waiting. We're just having so
• 28:50
  much fun. I know. At the beginning of the episode,
• 28:53
  it's like, just sit there and answer all of our
• 28:55
  questions in the comments. We have a lot. So
• 28:59
  Og. Og is interesting because, and it's literally
• 29:02
  OG. Yeah. Which is why the question was what
• 29:06
  it was. But Og is a very critical person that's
• 29:11
  mentioned 22 times in the Old Testament. And
• 29:15
  the interesting thing about that is, like, there's
• 29:19
  so many people that are mentioned way less than
• 29:21
  that that have way more importance throughout
• 29:23
  Scripture. And it's, I mean, Jude being one of
• 29:27
  them. Yeah. Og is mentioned in the Bible more
• 29:31
  times than Jude. Yeah, that's true. It's gotta
• 29:36
  be. I think that's true. Yeah, I mean, so Og,
• 29:43
  he's mentioned 22 times in the Bible. And there's
• 29:47
  a lot of critical pieces to this. Og is actually
• 29:49
  a pretty critical... I would say that... Alright,
• 29:55
  so if you're listening and you're waiting in
• 29:57
  the comments... figure out how many times we
• 30:00
  say og because I feel like I'm gonna use it as
• 30:02
  um Maybe I was we said it 80 times Yeah, but
• 30:10
  it is kind of fun to say that I know but it's
• 30:12
  like a resting point so so og oh og so he He
• 30:17
  stubbed your toe It is kind of spelled that way
• 30:21
  yeah no, so always mentioned 22 times in the
• 30:25
  Bible and He's like the face of many different
• 30:32
  things. He represents a lot of things. And he's
• 30:36
  a critical person, particularly, and person might
• 30:41
  be a little loose, but. We'll get there. But
• 30:47
  Og is like, he's kind of a figurehead in the
• 30:51
  story of Israel. And a critical piece, to be
• 30:54
  honest, to another question which is a whole
• 30:58
  other, which we've talked about in an earlier
• 31:00
  episode actually. And I'm like trying to remember
• 31:03
  the earlier episodes, but talking about like
• 31:07
  the God of the Old Testament versus the God of
• 31:10
  the New Testament. Like the idea of the cruelty
• 31:12
  of God in the Old Testament and actually shaping
• 31:16
  that. And Og is the perfect person to look at.
• 31:20
  He kind of represents what all that is. Yeah,
• 31:23
  and why... It's very different from nowadays,
• 31:28
  a nation going against another nation and wiping
• 31:31
  it off the face of the earth. Yeah. Like it's
• 31:33
  a different thing. However, like we should still,
• 31:36
  we should not be so naturalist and we should
• 31:38
  still consider things being way more spiritual
• 31:41
  even today. Absolutely. In those type of circumstances,
• 31:45
  but we're not going to get into that. So let's
• 31:47
  talk about Og. So Og is one of those people that's
• 31:50
  like, It's so interesting to me because he shows
• 31:53
  up constantly through the Torah and he's referenced
• 31:56
  a lot. In fact, he's referenced in the Psalms
• 32:00
  Yeah, I think there's two Psalms that mention
• 32:02
  him. Yeah, so he's referenced in the Psalms in
• 32:05
  a way Where he's like kind of the guy to look
• 32:08
  to yeah, it's like he was like in the in the
• 32:12
  way that Nimrod was like the first of the mighty
• 32:16
  men It aug is like The last of the mighty man.
• 32:23
  Yeah. No, I mean it actually says that I know
• 32:25
  that I didn't mean to get there that quick But
• 32:29
  I also don't think I realized it in that way
• 32:32
  But yeah, yeah, I didn't think about that either.
• 32:34
  I yeah not until I just said it so like yeah
• 32:36
  I guess Nimrod is the first and aug is the last
• 32:39
  and Yeah, there we need to do a whole other later
• 32:43
  episode on the fact that aug technically isn't
• 32:46
  the last Even though he's called the last There's
• 32:50
  like a sub genre of what that means Yeah, and
• 32:53
  a lot of that has to do with because of the descendants,
• 32:55
  right? Yeah. Yeah. So like as far as like Like
• 33:00
  dilute diluting the bloodline. Yes, that's a
• 33:04
  lot for people who don't know what I'm talking
• 33:05
  about So I think maybe if we're talking about
• 33:11
  og I think maybe one of the first places I want
• 33:13
  to go is probably not where you think okay, and
• 33:17
  the funny thing is is like this is not one of
• 33:19
  those like Hey, here's a question that you don't
• 33:22
  know I'm gonna ask, but secretly you do. I think
• 33:24
  you actually don't know where I'm gonna start.
• 33:26
  I'm actually really excited because I feel like
• 33:28
  I try to put you in this place normally, and
• 33:30
  now I'm here and it's really exciting. And one
• 33:33
  of the things that's cool about this is that
• 33:35
  we actually talked about this either last episode
• 33:38
  or the episode before, but this passage, we spoke
• 33:43
  from this passage. So I'm gonna start Genesis
• 33:44
  15. Ooh. So Genesis 15. I wasn't ready for this.
• 33:49
  Starting in verse 12, it says, as the sun was
• 33:52
  going down, a deep sleep fell on Abraham. We
• 33:54
  did talk about this because we use this as a
• 33:56
  reference of God making a covenant with Abraham.
• 33:59
  Yes. Because he doesn't make the covenant with
• 34:01
  Moses. He makes the covenant with Abraham. Yeah.
• 34:04
  And then Moses writes out the law according to
• 34:08
  the covenant. God made with Abram. So this is
• 34:12
  basically the moment of sacrifice where God is
• 34:15
  making the covenant with Abram. It says, As the
• 34:17
  sun was going down, deep sleep fell on Abram,
• 34:21
  and behold, dreadful and great darkness fell
• 34:23
  upon him. Then the Lord said to Abram, Know for
• 34:26
  certain that your offspring will be sojourners
• 34:29
  in a land that is not theirs. and will be servants
• 34:34
  there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred
• 34:37
  years. But I will bring judgment on the nation
• 34:41
  that they serve, and afterward they shall come
• 34:44
  out with great possessions. As for you, you shall
• 34:49
  go to your fathers in peace. You shall be buried
• 34:52
  in a good old age, and they shall come back here
• 34:56
  in the fourth generation. For the iniquity of
• 35:00
  the Amorites is not yet complete. So the reason
• 35:05
  why I started here... I'm actually really glad
• 35:07
  you started here too. Yeah, because I was trying
• 35:09
  to find the beginning. Yeah. You know what I
• 35:11
  mean? And like, obviously the beginning is before
• 35:14
  chapter 15. And we can get into that. But I feel
• 35:17
  like when we talk about Og specifically, I feel
• 35:19
  like this is a good starting point because you
• 35:23
  kind of go like, all right, well, you never said
• 35:24
  Og. Yeah. Well, I did and I didn't. So the thing
• 35:30
  is, is like in this moment, What the Lord is
• 35:34
  saying to Abram is He's looking forward and He's
• 35:37
  saying your people, the children of Israel, which
• 35:41
  is the son that you don't know you're going to
• 35:43
  have yet, that son, the people, the multi -generations
• 35:50
  that are going to come from you, and that promise
• 35:52
  hasn't been given yet either, or it hasn't been
• 35:56
  fulfilled yet either. And so when your people
• 36:00
  are gathered together, they're going to be exiled
• 36:03
  to what we'll come to find out is Egypt. And
• 36:06
  then they end up in Egypt for 400 years. And
• 36:10
  then God puts an iniquity on that, on those people,
• 36:13
  and judges those people. And He judges them according
• 36:18
  to their gods. And as He does that, He takes
• 36:21
  the children of Israel out of that land. And
• 36:24
  then He brings them He says, and they shall come
• 36:28
  back here in the fourth generation. And back
• 36:30
  here means the place where Abram is at the point
• 36:34
  where the Lord is talking to him in Genesis 15.
• 36:38
  So Abram is in the place where the children of
• 36:43
  Israel will eventually come back to. So he's
• 36:47
  seeing that ahead of time and he's letting him
• 36:49
  know. I mean, imagine... What's interesting with
• 36:53
  that too is he knows that's the place they're
• 36:55
  supposed to come back to because we saw in Deuteronomy,
• 36:59
  or we will see in Deuteronomy, where he's like,
• 37:02
  this is my portion that I've taken for myself.
• 37:07
  Yes. And even calling back to an earlier time
• 37:11
  point in that passage. So it is that space where
• 37:16
  that land that Abram is in, it's the promised
• 37:20
  land. Yeah. It's the land of Canaan. And so actually
• 37:27
  in this we would call it the land of the Amorites.
• 37:31
  Yes. Because he says, and they shall come back
• 37:35
  here in the fourth generation for the iniquity
• 37:37
  of the Amorites is not yet complete. So there's
• 37:41
  an iniquity on the Amorites. that are in the
• 37:44
  land that he's currently in, that when he leaves,
• 37:46
  or when they leave, and they're exiled, they'll
• 37:49
  come back. And the iniquity of the Amorites will,
• 37:54
  at some point, become complete. And that's one
• 37:57
  of the cool things, is there are things in the
• 37:59
  Bible that we know about our prophecies that
• 38:02
  have not yet come. But the really cool thing
• 38:07
  about the Bible is that there's all these prophecies
• 38:09
  that you see fulfilled. So you see all these
• 38:12
  things. And if you start to talk about prophecy
• 38:14
  in the Bible, like immediately the first thing
• 38:17
  you should think of really is Jesus. It's like
• 38:20
  look through the prophecies about the coming
• 38:22
  Savior, the one to save. But there's a bunch
• 38:25
  of other things that all support that and they
• 38:29
  all point to and lead up to Jesus coming. And
• 38:33
  they're all interlinked to that. especially in
• 38:36
  Genesis, there's a lot of stuff in Genesis that's
• 38:39
  really setting up kind of pre, not need for a
• 38:45
  savior, but the Lord's working something out
• 38:49
  a little bit ahead of time. I think what's interesting
• 38:53
  about that passage for a couple of reasons. One,
• 38:57
  kind of a side point to this, but I think it's
• 39:00
  important to say the Amorites are descended from
• 39:03
  Canaan. who we've talked about in a previous
• 39:06
  episode with Noah's son, Ham, and Noah's wife.
• 39:10
  Yeah, so let's talk about that for a minute.
• 39:12
  Yeah. Yeah, we can. But I think that's important
• 39:17
  to say is like, OK, so Canaan, who is the child
• 39:20
  from that issue, that misdeed, I was like, trying
• 39:27
  to think of a word to use here. Yeah. from that
• 39:31
  situation, and it's like there was a curse that
• 39:33
  was placed on Canaan from Moses. Yeah. And say
• 39:37
  from who? Or sorry, not Moses, from Noah. So
• 39:40
  Canaan's mom and dad is who? Is Ham and Noah's
• 39:45
  wife. Which is his mom. Which is his mom. For
• 39:50
  those who weren't following. Yeah. Yeah. So it's
• 39:53
  a little weird. Yeah. So, yeah, so Canaan, Yeah.
• 40:02
  It's uncomfortable. It's like, ugh. Yeah. Kind
• 40:05
  of gross. But also, like, not said plainly enough,
• 40:09
  often enough, maybe. I'm not sure how often we
• 40:11
  need to say it, but... But it is a little bit
• 40:17
  like, oh yeah, that's one of those details that's
• 40:19
  like, whoa, wait a minute. Okay, so the flood
• 40:21
  happens, and Noah and his family are essentially
• 40:27
  two... be fruitful and multiply in the same command
• 40:33
  as Adam and Eve. Yeah. And so it's this kind
• 40:36
  of reset of creation. Yeah. I mean, I think I
• 40:39
  like the way you said it on a previous episode
• 40:41
  where it's like we see this re -submerging into
• 40:43
  chaos so God can pull it back into order. Yeah.
• 40:46
  Did I say that? Yeah, it was really good. I do
• 40:48
  really like that. It was good. Yeah, and there's
• 40:53
  all this stuff with water. Ooh, we need to do
• 40:55
  Jonah. We were just messing around with that.
• 40:57
  Yeah, that's a fun one. But yeah, it's pretty
• 41:00
  obvious. I mean, the Bible is actually really
• 41:03
  obvious. Write that down in the comments. We
• 41:05
  need your help. Yeah. A future episode about
• 41:09
  Noah. Noah, no Jonah. Take note. It's spelled
• 41:13
  almost the same. Let's not get too tangent on
• 41:21
  this one. Yeah, that's gonna be a whole other
• 41:23
  topic. But, so you have this post -flood, which,
• 41:28
  again, there's so many future episodes that we'll
• 41:30
  do pre -flood and all that stuff. And some of
• 41:34
  this we'll actually point to that. But post -flood,
• 41:37
  you have Ham sees his father exposed, but actually,
• 41:49
  Has a kid with his mom Yeah, and I think it's
• 41:52
  weird because in English when we see it, it looks
• 41:54
  like he just walked in and his dad Dropped in
• 41:57
  his drawers and it's like, oh, that's kind of
• 41:59
  funny. Yeah, but it's like that doesn't make
• 42:01
  any sense No, and when you look at the euphemism
• 42:04
  that's used there From an ancient Hebrew perspective.
• 42:08
  It's very clear what he's saying plus later context
• 42:11
  of the child born. Yeah It seems to say. Yeah.
• 42:15
  Especially with how it's even written in the
• 42:17
  genealogies. It's set apart from the rest of
• 42:19
  his children. Yes. And I think what's what's
• 42:23
  so weird about this, too, when we look at it
• 42:26
  is like, so the people that went into the arc
• 42:29
  was Noah and his wife, his three sons and their
• 42:33
  three wives. Yeah. So it's like I think the throw
• 42:37
  just insult injury here. It's like the guy already
• 42:40
  had his own wife. Yeah. Yeah, that boat was a
• 42:44
  wild place. Kind of messed up. For sure. Let
• 42:48
  me just go out on a limb here and say I think
• 42:49
  it's kind of weird. But yeah, so we see from
• 42:54
  that unholy union, the birth of this child, which
• 43:00
  Noah then places a curse upon, which we could
• 43:02
  even read into that further and say he's placing
• 43:04
  a curse on a nation because their children were
• 43:07
  the births of those nations named after them.
• 43:11
  And then that's when we see Nimrod and then down
• 43:13
  the line to the Amorites. Yeah, and Nimrod comes
• 43:16
  through that line. Yeah. Yeah, so you so you
• 43:19
  have this like and we've we've talked about this
• 43:21
  before but bloodlines are like kind of important
• 43:23
  and and not in like a like bloodline is like
• 43:26
  a weird It feels like a weird fit like it makes
• 43:29
  you like think of vampires and like all this
• 43:31
  stuff But or it makes me think of that. I don't
• 43:33
  know about you. I won't project that on you Um,
• 43:37
  but it's one of those things where like when
• 43:39
  you when you look at bloodlines, it's it's actually
• 43:41
  how the bible is set up. It's Yeah, uh genealogies
• 43:45
  So and what are genealogies they're bloodlines.
• 43:47
  It's like dna passing off from person to person
• 43:50
  to person Yeah, so like what you have and there's
• 43:53
  a lot of language of iniquity from generation
• 43:56
  to generation, curses, but then also blessing
• 44:01
  that can go a thousand generations. It's like,
• 44:05
  when you look at it that way, it's like, okay,
• 44:07
  so there's this moment where after the flood,
• 44:14
  there's a situation that happens pretty quickly
• 44:17
  that is very reminiscent of pre -flood in a major
• 44:21
  way. And then Noah curses, that instance in order
• 44:28
  to try and hit it quick. Like, hey, we just came
• 44:33
  out of that. Don't do that anymore. And it's
• 44:37
  like, well, where did Ham get that idea? Well,
• 44:39
  he got it because he lived before the flood.
• 44:42
  Yeah, he was in that generation. Yeah. And the
• 44:45
  stuff before the flood we'll get to in another
• 44:47
  episode. But it's one of those things where like,
• 44:51
  It wasn't just in and of himself. It was learned
• 44:53
  behavior. It was things that he already understood,
• 44:55
  right? It was like a worldview that he was it
• 44:58
  was almost like a Sin he needed to still work
• 45:01
  out in his life. Yeah, I mean versus it being
• 45:04
  like the the Tormenting spirit coming upon him,
• 45:09
  right? You know, I mean, so like it's even in
• 45:12
  like the even in like another sense of it It's
• 45:15
  even like a power struggle. Yeah of like his
• 45:17
  way of getting authority over his father Yeah,
• 45:21
  shame him in that way. Yeah, and in some ways
• 45:24
  try to reestablish what existed before the flood,
• 45:27
  right? Yeah, so it's a very it's it's very reminiscent
• 45:30
  of Even even Peter telling Jesus he doesn't need
• 45:35
  to die. Yeah, and Jesus says get behind me Satan,
• 45:38
  right? It's like that idea of like he's going.
• 45:41
  Hey, maybe I can usurp my dad and go back to
• 45:45
  the days of Noah yeah the pre -flood days like
• 45:49
  maybe I'll just go in and do this and some spiritual
• 45:54
  entity is like definitely happy about that if
• 45:58
  not pushing into it yeah but um and not like
• 46:01
  in that moment probably but and then there's
• 46:05
  also the question of like spiritual ritual um
• 46:08
  within what he was doing specifically yeah so
• 46:11
  yeah um and that's that's a little bit of a future
• 46:15
  episode as well probably but a lot of teases
• 46:18
  yeah yeah but it really kind of gives the framework
• 46:21
  for this moment because that Genesis 15 moment
• 46:25
  is really kind of a it's a critical moment to
• 46:29
  go okay well who are the Amorites so we go back
• 46:31
  and we go Amorites are descendants of Canaan.
• 46:35
  Canaan comes out of this unholy union that is
• 46:40
  reminiscent of the days before the flood and
• 46:44
  the days before the flood, even going back to
• 46:48
  Genesis 6, which is kind of like the linchpin
• 46:51
  moment of why the flood has to come in the first
• 46:54
  place, which that's definitely another episode.
• 46:57
  But even in that, you have this corruption. where
• 47:03
  the human bloodline is tainted. And in that instance,
• 47:09
  all of a sudden you're carrying back to this.
• 47:11
  So now the human bloodline is tainted again,
• 47:14
  post -flood. And this iniquity is put on this
• 47:18
  nation that is now gonna be, is now, has an iniquity
• 47:23
  on the nation itself that has to be set apart
• 47:26
  from all the other people. It has to be pushed
• 47:29
  away. and not a part of what's going on. And
• 47:33
  in the same way that everything pre -flood needed
• 47:36
  to be wiped out, eventually the iniquity of the
• 47:39
  Amorites has to be ended. And the way it's ended
• 47:42
  is wiping them out. And I think what's interesting
• 47:46
  with that too is even the way that it's worded
• 47:49
  makes me think, and this is me going off on a
• 47:52
  limb based on just the language that I see in
• 47:54
  Genesis 15. Speculation alert. Yes. But it's
• 48:00
  that idea of like, oh, so it's not yet complete.
• 48:03
  And I think even in there, it's like we get a
• 48:05
  glimpse into God dealing with other nations,
• 48:08
  but we're not really told the details of what's
• 48:11
  even happening. And I think that's, I think it's
• 48:14
  cool. One, because it's like, God's working with
• 48:16
  all people at all times, individually, which
• 48:21
  I think is really cool. And we kind of get a
• 48:23
  glimpse into that happening here, where it's
• 48:25
  like, that's, in a lot of ways, God is showing
• 48:28
  mercy to them by not judging them now. Why did
• 48:32
  he do that? I don't know. Because he's like,
• 48:36
  they're iniquities, so they have them. He's just
• 48:38
  to make a judgment, but instead he's waiting.
• 48:41
  It's like, well, why is he waiting? Well, he
• 48:43
  says, well, it's not complete yet, which means
• 48:44
  he's still giving them time. Which in that way,
• 48:47
  it's like, in some ways it could suggest some
• 48:51
  amount of redemption in some way. It gets complicated
• 48:55
  because of what we're gonna talk about. Yeah,
• 48:57
  most likely But it's but it does ask that weird
• 49:01
  question of like there is some amount of redemption
• 49:03
  that is Potentially possible there that he's
• 49:07
  allowing them time to do something right but
• 49:10
  instead That doesn't happen yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 49:17
  and it's it's you know, the simple of that through
• 49:20
  line though is to to kind of go like, hey, there
• 49:23
  was a corruption that caused this within humanity
• 49:28
  where all of it just needed to be wiped out and
• 49:30
  the righteous needed to be saved. And then there
• 49:33
  was corruption again in the righteous family,
• 49:36
  echoing back to the same corruption that echoes
• 49:40
  back to the original corruption, Genesis 3. back
• 49:45
  to Genesis 6. Now we're at Genesis 15 talking
• 49:48
  about the Amorites because of what happened a
• 49:52
  couple of chapters before with Ham. Yeah. And
• 49:55
  you have, you have, it's the same thing happening
• 49:58
  in different ways. It just repeats itself. Yeah.
• 50:00
  So it's the same. It's like, it's, it's, it's
• 50:05
  the ancient serpent that's trying to just. Yeah.
• 50:08
  dig itself back into humanity. And it's doing
• 50:12
  it the same way. We fall for the same trap every
• 50:15
  time. Yeah. It's the way that we're most vulnerable.
• 50:19
  And to be honest, I think it's one of the reasons
• 50:21
  why you look at, when Paul talks about sins,
• 50:26
  he talks about sexual sins in a very specific
• 50:30
  way. And he kind of sets aside and says, because
• 50:33
  it's the sin that's actually against your body.
• 50:36
  Yeah. without full context of the Scriptures,
• 50:41
  that kind of seems like it's a, that kind of,
• 50:45
  checking the camera. I just wanted to make sure.
• 50:46
  I just got weird for some reason. That's one
• 50:50
  of those things where just reading Paul and not
• 50:54
  thinking about even what's happening in Genesis,
• 50:57
  like not looking at the whole picture, you kind
• 50:59
  of go like, oh yeah, I could see where that type
• 51:02
  of sin would be different. You're like, okay.
• 51:05
  except that like in the context of the scripture
• 51:07
  and the way that the ancient serpent or the devil
• 51:10
  where Satan has come in almost every time it's
• 51:13
  through a sexual sin. It's through something
• 51:16
  that is specifically a ritualistic sexual sin
• 51:20
  that goes against the body and corrupts human
• 51:23
  flesh in a way that disrupts bloodline and purity
• 51:27
  of bloodline which disrupts the genealogy of
• 51:31
  the Savior who was to come and reset all of that.
• 51:35
  And I think that's where we see that image, especially
• 51:38
  demonstrated well with Joseph, where it's like
• 51:41
  when he's faced with a sexual sin, he flees from
• 51:44
  it. Yeah, he leaves his garment. Yeah, and it's
• 51:47
  like that's the call. It's like we fall for this
• 51:49
  so often repeatedly, so it's like just get out
• 51:52
  of there. Right. Don't even be there. Yeah, because
• 51:55
  there's something greater going on there. It's
• 51:58
  not just like, you know, It'll be okay. It's
• 52:02
  like, no, I'll just deal with it. No, actually,
• 52:04
  that's like the number one way through the scripture
• 52:07
  that man has fallen. Yeah. Yeah. And it happens
• 52:11
  over and over and over again. So you have the
• 52:14
  people of Canaan and then you also have like
• 52:17
  the understanding of the Amorites. So who are
• 52:19
  the Amorites? We see that they're from the line
• 52:21
  of Canaan. We also know that where are they from?
• 52:25
  Like, where are they? And they're mostly in the
• 52:28
  Mesopotamian region. Yeah. And then there's another
• 52:31
  area. Anyways. But they're mostly in Mesopotamia.
• 52:37
  And for Abram, that's very specific. And that's
• 52:40
  where he is. Right. Yeah. So like for him, it's
• 52:44
  like, OK, he knows the Amorites because he lived
• 52:49
  among them. He lived on the outside of like he
• 52:53
  was separate from them. But that's the culture
• 52:56
  that he understood and grew up in. Well, I mean,
• 52:58
  there is even a time when it's like he probably
• 53:00
  worshiped those gods to some extent. Yeah, or
• 53:03
  at least his, you know, his parents did. His
• 53:05
  family did. Yeah. It's like a lot of the stories
• 53:07
  and legends, like he would have known and read
• 53:09
  all those things. Well, that's the big thing.
• 53:11
  And that's something that we talk about a lot.
• 53:12
  Yeah. It's like his context and worldview, he
• 53:14
  would have been very aware of the deeds and the
• 53:18
  traditions of the Amorites. Yeah, absolutely.
• 53:20
  He would have, like that would have been his,
• 53:22
  those would have been his movies. Yeah. Right.
• 53:25
  Yeah. That's his pop culture. Yeah, that is his
• 53:27
  pop culture, which is fascinating. So that's
• 53:31
  kind of a little bit of the back end context.
• 53:33
  So what I want to do then is let's just jump
• 53:35
  to if that's if the iniquity of the Amorites
• 53:39
  has not yet been concluded or it has not yet.
• 53:44
  How does he say? Has not is not yet complete.
• 53:50
  Then let's see if we can find where it's complete.
• 53:57
  So honestly Deuteronomy if you haven't read it
• 54:00
  in a while There's a lot there that like like
• 54:05
  we probably just need to spend more time in Deuteronomy
• 54:08
  Honestly, the first five books the Torah it's
• 54:10
  like it's wild. There's a lot going on There's
• 54:13
  a lot going on and it's all like it's all interconnected.
• 54:17
  I've all I spent so much time in Genesis I know
• 54:20
  and then now I'm like finding myself in Deuteronomy
• 54:22
  like holy cow. Yeah, there's still three more
• 54:25
  Yeah, there there are Paul Well, there's yeah,
• 54:32
  actually just that there's three more ahead of
• 54:35
  it. Yeah between It and Genesis. Yes, because
• 54:39
  Deuteronomy is the last book of the Torah. That's
• 54:41
  correct Yeah, you're right. I love how I'm like,
• 54:47
  wait, I did that completely backwards. Which
• 54:48
  in some ways is probably important that like
• 54:51
  you kind of have this like wrap -up of in Deuteronomy,
• 54:55
  there's a lot of supernatural worldview. Yeah.
• 54:58
  And it's really creating the framework for the
• 55:01
  context of the world that they live in. Yeah,
• 55:03
  that's true. And so it's kind of wrapping up
• 55:05
  the Torah. in a way that's like, here's your
• 55:08
  framework for life. You know, like you have you
• 55:11
  have your origins and then you have your rules
• 55:14
  and your ways to live in the practice of it.
• 55:17
  So you have you have the why and the what. And
• 55:20
  then now you have the environment that you live
• 55:22
  in and how to function in that. Yeah. So like
• 55:26
  that's kind of how the Torah is set up in that
• 55:28
  way. You know, the the reporters questions who,
• 55:32
  what, when, where, why. We got you yeah, so like
• 55:37
  this is okay, so there's a bunch of places we
• 55:40
  could start, but let's go to who is aug Who is
• 55:44
  aug who was yeah who was who is? Alright, so
• 55:50
  I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna jump straight
• 55:52
  to here aug nope Deuteronomy 3 It's like a tick
• 55:59
  now I'm gonna yeah, ah chapter 3 Deuteronomy
• 56:05
  chapter 3 starting in verse 1 it says Then we
• 56:09
  turned and went up the way to Bashan or Bashan.
• 56:14
  However, you want to say it. I like Bashan I
• 56:17
  think I say once so Bashan I think is how I wish
• 56:20
  on but how do you say it Bashan? I like that
• 56:23
  Beishon. Beishon. I feel like I know a Beishon.
• 56:35
  No comments below on that one. We're going to
• 56:40
  bleep that out. So leading up to this, this is
• 56:43
  like the chapter before this we're talking about.
• 56:46
  Essentially, the children of Israel have have
• 56:48
  this is. What is happening in Deuteronomy chapters
• 56:52
  1 and 2 is that the children of Israel are coming
• 56:56
  out of Egypt and they're coming up and they're
• 56:59
  making their way up to the land of Canaan. This
• 57:02
  is before the 40 years. So they're making their
• 57:04
  way up to the land of Canaan. And as they're
• 57:07
  making their way up to the land of Canaan, there
• 57:10
  are these groups of people that the Lord tells
• 57:14
  them, those people essentially need to be wiped
• 57:17
  out or eliminated in order for the children of
• 57:20
  Israel to make their way back to the land of
• 57:22
  Abraham, back to the land that's designated for
• 57:25
  him. But they're not just on a conquest just
• 57:29
  wiping out and just painting the town red. Like
• 57:31
  they're not doing that. What they're doing is
• 57:35
  they are going back and they're bringing judgment
• 57:39
  upon the Amorites. The iniquity that needs to
• 57:44
  be completed because of the sins of Ham going
• 57:50
  all the way back and the iniquity and what was
• 57:54
  put on him by Noah. So what the children of Israel
• 57:58
  are doing essentially is fulfilling that judgment
• 58:03
  that God that Noah places on Ham and the descendant
• 58:08
  of Ham through Canaan and that line of people
• 58:11
  that include Nimrod and go all the way through.
• 58:15
  This is essentially what's happening. So then
• 58:18
  we turned and we went up the way to Bishon and
• 58:22
  Og the king of Bishon came out against us. He
• 58:25
  and all his people to the battle of... I'm gonna
• 58:29
  say all these names different than everybody's.
• 58:33
  Put that floor down. That's what it is. I'm pronouncing
• 58:39
  all of the letters long. So the Lord our God
• 58:59
  gave into our hand Og also the king of Bashan
• 59:03
  and all his people and we struck him down until
• 59:06
  he had no survivor left and we took all the cities
• 59:10
  at the time. There was not a city that we did
• 59:13
  not take from them. That kind of sounds like
• 59:15
  Trump. Frankly, there's no cities. There's no
• 59:19
  city that we did not take from them. Great cities,
• 59:22
  beautiful cities. We took them all. Lots of walls.
• 59:27
  We took all their walls. They did not hurt us.
• 59:30
  Sixty cities, the whole region of Argob, the
• 59:34
  kingdom of Og in Bashan. All these were cities
• 59:39
  fortified with high walls. Gates and bars, besides
• 59:44
  very many unwalled villages. There were very
• 59:47
  many unwalled villages. We sent in the dogs,
• 59:50
  beautiful dogs. And we devoted them to destruction,
• 59:56
  as we did to Sihon, the king of Heshbon, devoting
• 1:00:00
  to destruction every city, men, women, and children,
• 1:00:03
  but all the livestock and the spoil of the cities
• 1:00:05
  we took as our plunder. So we took the land at
• 1:00:08
  that time out of the hand of the two kings of
• 1:00:10
  the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, from
• 1:00:13
  the valley of the Arnon to Mount Hermon. Arnon
• 1:00:17
  to Mount Hermon. Again, another word we can say
• 1:00:21
  however we want. The Sidonians call Hermon Siron,
• 1:00:27
  while the Amorites call it Sinir. All the cities
• 1:00:30
  of the, that was an aside, all of the cities
• 1:00:32
  of the table land and all Gilead and all Bashan
• 1:00:35
  as far as Silica and Idri. Cities of the kingdom
• 1:00:40
  of Og in Bashan. For only Og, the king of Bashan
• 1:00:46
  was left of the remit. remnant of the Rephaim.
• 1:00:52
  What? There's a lot that's said in there. I think.
• 1:00:56
  What? Starting from the top. What? I was going
• 1:00:59
  to stop there because I was about to dig into
• 1:01:00
  another part that I want to get into and probably
• 1:01:03
  will end with. Yeah, I think that's cool. But
• 1:01:06
  I think it's interesting on one hand where Og
• 1:01:08
  and Sihon are normally put together and often.
• 1:01:13
  Yes. Og is talked about more so, but you'll typically
• 1:01:16
  see those. two names together. And Sahin, which
• 1:01:20
  is interesting about him, is because he defeated
• 1:01:24
  the Moabites king. And so it's like, these guys
• 1:01:27
  ruled a lot, is basically what it's trying to
• 1:01:31
  outline for us. Like they kind of took over a
• 1:01:33
  lot of territory. Yeah. And they were extremely
• 1:01:36
  powerful. Yeah. Well, so Psalm 136 says, To him
• 1:01:42
  who struck down great kings, for his steadfast
• 1:01:45
  love endures forever. And killed mighty kings,
• 1:01:48
  for his steadfast love endures forever. Sihon,
• 1:01:50
  king of the Amorites, for his steadfast love
• 1:01:53
  endures forever. And Og, king of Bashan, for
• 1:01:56
  his steadfast love endures forever. And gave
• 1:01:59
  their land as a heritage, for his steadfast love
• 1:02:02
  endures forever. A heritage to Israel, his servant,
• 1:02:05
  for his steadfast love endures forever. So you
• 1:02:08
  have this Psalm. It's funny, I don't remember
• 1:02:11
  that in the worship song. I know. They don't
• 1:02:13
  talk about Og in there. I know. Yeah, so talking
• 1:02:22
  about not hearing it in a sermon, I've never
• 1:02:24
  heard it in a song either. I think we need to
• 1:02:26
  write that song. Maybe that's what we need to
• 1:02:28
  do. That's a Mardi Gras song. That's what we
• 1:02:30
  need to do. We need to find all the giant kings
• 1:02:35
  in the Old Testament. That's another little thing
• 1:02:38
  to pop in there. But yeah, so it's interesting
• 1:02:43
  because you even have the psalmist, Psalm 136,
• 1:02:48
  mentioning both Sehan and as these specific Amorite
• 1:02:55
  kings. And you kind of go like, if you've read
• 1:02:58
  that before in the Psalms and you go, okay, cool,
• 1:03:01
  like, yeah, just some kings, not just some kings.
• 1:03:05
  Two major kings of massive regions that are in
• 1:03:12
  the Middle East that were specific gateways to
• 1:03:16
  get into Israel. Yeah, so like this had to happen,
• 1:03:21
  but it was also to finish the judgment upon Canaan
• 1:03:26
  that came through Ham by Noah and you have this
• 1:03:31
  and all of that needed to happen because it was
• 1:03:34
  the original it was the sin that had happened
• 1:03:37
  that caused the flood in the first place happening
• 1:03:41
  again through the line of Ham and through the
• 1:03:43
  line of Canaan. And that needed to be wiped out
• 1:03:46
  again, but the Lord said that He would not flood
• 1:03:48
  the earth again. So He had to figure out a way
• 1:03:51
  to judge these people that are from that line.
• 1:03:56
  without wiping out the whole earth. So he uses
• 1:03:59
  the children of Israel in order to enact judgment
• 1:04:02
  on those remnant that are still there from the
• 1:04:06
  line of Canaan back to Ham. And that's why those
• 1:04:09
  people have to be wiped out. Because the thing
• 1:04:11
  is, I think we question a lot, why are the children
• 1:04:14
  of Israel going through and wiping out every
• 1:04:16
  man, woman, and child? And you go in there, that's
• 1:04:19
  hard to say. It is. Acknowledging, that's a hard
• 1:04:23
  thing to say. But for some reason we're okay
• 1:04:27
  with the flood. Like for some reason we're okay
• 1:04:30
  with like, yeah, the flood, they were doing terrible
• 1:04:32
  things, they needed to be wiped out. But go and
• 1:04:35
  kill the men, women, and children, it's not any
• 1:04:37
  different. It's the judgment of God. But I think
• 1:04:39
  because it came through water and not people
• 1:04:43
  in war, somehow it seems worse. Because I guess
• 1:04:49
  on one hand, if you deny God, you can say it's
• 1:04:53
  a natural disaster that was unfortunate. Right.
• 1:04:56
  But on the other one, you can at the worst case,
• 1:04:59
  you have to say it was people that made a decision
• 1:05:00
  and blame God for it. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Because
• 1:05:05
  I mean, yeah, like you said, it is it is interesting.
• 1:05:08
  It is judgment, but it's two different forms
• 1:05:10
  of it. Right. And one definitely seems harsher.
• 1:05:14
  For sure. Yeah. And OK, so so getting to. Yeah.
• 1:05:19
  Like. who Og is and these important pieces about
• 1:05:23
  him. So going back to Deuteronomy. I think it's
• 1:05:27
  important, especially with everything that you've
• 1:05:30
  brought up that we've brought up so far. It's
• 1:05:33
  like, all right, there's a lot that happened
• 1:05:34
  in here. And understanding who the Amorites were
• 1:05:39
  is really important to know. Basically why it
• 1:05:45
  like why is this okay, right? Yeah, and I couldn't
• 1:05:48
  think of a better way to say that Yeah, but I
• 1:05:51
  mean I think that's the question that is really
• 1:05:53
  difficult for us to answer a lot of times from
• 1:05:55
  a naturalistic worldview sure Yeah, and and there's
• 1:06:00
  something spiritual going on here. There's a
• 1:06:01
  judgment taking place. Yeah because Like, you
• 1:06:06
  know over and over again We must be holy as the
• 1:06:10
  Lord is holy And how does holiness, holiness
• 1:06:14
  comes through the, by fire, the shedding off
• 1:06:20
  of every unnecessary thing. And so it's this,
• 1:06:26
  it's the naturalism and everything that has come
• 1:06:32
  in modernism or modernity, like through that
• 1:06:36
  whole process, we kind of get this peace where
• 1:06:39
  we can pick and choose the the pieces that we
• 1:06:42
  wanna keep on, not realizing that we're standing
• 1:06:45
  in a fire. It's like, we can't keep that stuff.
• 1:06:48
  And if we try to hold onto it, we're gonna be
• 1:06:52
  completely destroyed in the fire instead of being
• 1:06:55
  refined in it because we're letting it go. Absolutely.
• 1:06:59
  I think this is an important, I think an aside,
• 1:07:02
  but I think it's important. When we look at sin
• 1:07:07
  versus God or evil versus good, It's one of those
• 1:07:11
  where I think it's easy for us to look at as
• 1:07:15
  God is like, oh, he can't be in the presence
• 1:07:17
  of evil. But it's actually the reverse. And that
• 1:07:21
  goes with the fire. It's just like, no, evil
• 1:07:23
  can't exist in the presence of God. And I think
• 1:07:27
  we see examples of that when we look at the practice
• 1:07:29
  of the Holy of Holies, where it's like, well,
• 1:07:32
  why do they have to tie rope to this guy with
• 1:07:34
  bells on it? Because when he went into the presence
• 1:07:37
  of God, if he had not prepared himself well,
• 1:07:40
  Then he died. Yes, and that's not because oh
• 1:07:43
  like God's too afraid of me But it's like no
• 1:07:46
  because you can't exist sin can't exist in the
• 1:07:49
  presence of God. It's it's evaporated. Yeah And
• 1:07:53
  so I think that's really important when we look
• 1:07:55
  at even the severity of sin When God says be
• 1:07:59
  holy when Jesus says be holy as I am holy. He's
• 1:08:01
  saying that for our good, too Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:08:04
  He's like because I want to see you up here.
• 1:08:06
  Yes, and you can't be up here in this state,
• 1:08:09
  right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's like the, we always
• 1:08:14
  end up in a pastoral side of it, which is cool.
• 1:08:16
  It's true. I like it. But jumping back to Og,
• 1:08:20
  real quick in this. So where I stopped reading
• 1:08:23
  that Deuteronomy 32, it said, actually, I don't
• 1:08:28
  know if I got to this point, but it said, okay,
• 1:08:31
  in verse 11, it says, for only Og, the king of
• 1:08:33
  Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaim.
• 1:08:37
  So there's a lot there. Yet one, because he's
• 1:08:42
  already been identified as an Amorite. Yes. But
• 1:08:45
  now it's also tying him to this other group.
• 1:08:48
  Yeah, the Rephaim. Yes. So then who are the Rephaim,
• 1:08:51
  Paul? That's a big question. I know. Man, I wasn't
• 1:09:01
  prepared to answer that question. I knew it would
• 1:09:03
  come up. Well, I want to shout out I think it's
• 1:09:06
  important to see like who are the recognizable
• 1:09:07
  raphaim that we've seen there you go And so there's
• 1:09:10
  one in particular. That's pretty famous. Okay
• 1:09:13
  amongst children stories all all across the name.
• 1:09:16
  How famous is he? Well, not as famous as the
• 1:09:19
  other guy killed But when we look at Goliath,
• 1:09:23
  yeah Goliath is a is a raphaim How Because Og
• 1:09:30
  was the last of them. Okay, so, because he is
• 1:09:35
  a son of Annak, right? Yep. Who is a descendant
• 1:09:40
  of the Raphaim. Yes. They're connected in that
• 1:09:42
  way. So Goliath is attached to them because he's
• 1:09:45
  a descendant of that. Right. Yeah. So they're
• 1:09:49
  in that same camp. And there's something very
• 1:09:51
  interesting about Goliath that is attached again
• 1:09:56
  to Og, which you're going to get into. Am I?
• 1:09:59
  Maybe I feel like you are well. I was just gonna
• 1:10:02
  jump to numbers 13 Okay, 32 it says so they brought
• 1:10:07
  to the people of Israel a bad report of the land
• 1:10:10
  that they had spied out This is Joshua in the
• 1:10:13
  group. Yeah And you don't know where I'm going
• 1:10:15
  with this either, do you? There's a couple of
• 1:10:19
  places you could go, so I'm curious. Well, I
• 1:10:21
  just want to read this last part, because I want
• 1:10:22
  to tie in all these words together. So now we're
• 1:10:26
  in Numbers, which is actually before Deuteronomy,
• 1:10:30
  but it's talking about Joshua and the other 11
• 1:10:35
  spies that went in and lived for 40 days among
• 1:10:39
  the Canaanites. in Israel in order to spy out
• 1:10:44
  the land and kind of see if they could, and this
• 1:10:47
  is the funny thing is like looking back on it
• 1:10:50
  now, it's not that they needed to go and spy
• 1:10:53
  out the land in order to be like, can we overtake
• 1:10:56
  the land? Because in some ways that's direct
• 1:10:59
  disobedience. The Lord said, take the land. And
• 1:11:01
  they sent men in to spy it out. So that in some
• 1:11:06
  ways, The Lord allowed that to happen for them
• 1:11:09
  to be able to see what exactly The Lord was going
• 1:11:13
  to deliver to them. Yeah, so it was like this
• 1:11:17
  They didn't need to go and spy out the land to
• 1:11:20
  see if they could do it. They needed to go spy
• 1:11:22
  out the land to see what God was going to do.
• 1:11:25
  And that was the misconception that they had.
• 1:11:28
  So when they come back it says, so they brought
• 1:11:32
  to the people of Israel a bad report of the land
• 1:11:35
  that they had spied out saying, the land through
• 1:11:38
  which we have gone to spy it out is a land that
• 1:11:42
  devours its inhabitants. Real quick. So when
• 1:11:47
  we read that, it devours its inhabitants. So
• 1:11:51
  that phrase, devours its inhabitants, is a phrase
• 1:11:55
  that doesn't mean it makes people bad. What that
• 1:12:01
  means is the land devours its inhabitants is
• 1:12:06
  a phrase that is directly referencing men of
• 1:12:11
  renown that eat people. Yeah, and that's actually
• 1:12:16
  not a speculation. That is what that is referencing
• 1:12:18
  So what basically what it's saying is like there
• 1:12:22
  are man eaters In this land. Yeah, it devours
• 1:12:26
  its inhabitants and all the people that we saw
• 1:12:29
  in it are of great height and There we saw the
• 1:12:33
  Nephilim Wait, hang on What? So they just straight
• 1:12:39
  -up say and there we saw the Nephilim. Yeah So
• 1:12:43
  in Genesis 6, we see that the Nephilim were there
• 1:12:47
  in those days and the days after. But we're to
• 1:12:50
  assume that the Nephilim are wiped out in the
• 1:12:53
  flood. Honestly, we just need to do a whole episode
• 1:12:59
  of what are Nephilim. But the symbol of Nephilim,
• 1:13:03
  if you look at Genesis 6, it's the sons of God
• 1:13:06
  and the daughters of man. It's their offspring.
• 1:13:09
  Yeah. So we'll just say it like that. To use
• 1:13:11
  the term again, another unholy union. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:13:14
  Yeah. So we need to, like in some ways, I guess
• 1:13:17
  the second unholy union. Yeah. Breaking down
• 1:13:21
  maybe Genesis 3 in a different way. Yeah. So
• 1:13:24
  it says, and there we saw the Nephilim. And then
• 1:13:28
  this is kind of interesting. Parenthetically,
• 1:13:31
  it says the sons of Anak who come from the Nephilim.
• 1:13:36
  And we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers.
• 1:13:39
  And so we seemed to them. Now, real quick. So
• 1:13:44
  this is something interesting about this, because
• 1:13:46
  this is kind of pointing back to who Og is. Yeah.
• 1:13:49
  It's tying in a little bit of these people and
• 1:13:52
  in this land and the this space where where Og
• 1:13:56
  is actually the ruler and the king. And it goes
• 1:13:59
  to and there we saw the Nephilim, this parenthetical.
• 1:14:03
  So this is this is a Doug Van Dorn. So, Doug
• 1:14:09
  Van Doren, the pastor, written many, many things.
• 1:14:16
  But he kind of goes into this. So, let me say
• 1:14:22
  it like this. Numbers 13, 33. And there we saw
• 1:14:26
  the Nephilim. The parenthetical phrase right
• 1:14:29
  after that word, Nephilim, is the sons of Anak
• 1:14:32
  who come from the Nephilim. and then it continues.
• 1:14:36
  So this is not Doug Van Dorn. What is true is
• 1:14:41
  that that parenthetical was placed there after
• 1:14:45
  the Torah was written. So Moses writing numbers
• 1:14:51
  doesn't write that parenthetical. That parenthetical,
• 1:14:56
  some people argue that it potentially was like
• 1:15:02
  a second temple, it was most likely in a first
• 1:15:04
  century context, that it was written. It's actually
• 1:15:08
  not even in the Septuagint. So that parenthetical
• 1:15:11
  is not in the Septuagint, which is interesting.
• 1:15:14
  That's very interesting. Yeah, and the main reason
• 1:15:17
  why that's interesting is because it just says,
• 1:15:22
  and there we saw the Nephilim. But the reason
• 1:15:25
  why it's important that the parenthetical is
• 1:15:26
  written, the sons of Anak, who come from the
• 1:15:29
  Nephilim, is because it's clarifying that when
• 1:15:33
  it says nephilim, it's not referring to, like
• 1:15:38
  it wants you to know exactly who it's referring
• 1:15:42
  to. So whoever added that parenthetical there
• 1:15:46
  in those, in like probably around the first century
• 1:15:50
  is what a lot of people think. But definitely
• 1:15:53
  it's not in the Septuagint. Their intent behind
• 1:15:57
  it was to make sure you didn't get confused who
• 1:16:00
  they were talking about. Yeah, that makes sense.
• 1:16:01
  So they add that in. And then it says... It could
• 1:16:07
  easily have been like, oh, pre -flood. Well,
• 1:16:10
  no, no, no. It's different. Same group, but different.
• 1:16:13
  Well, but also the big misconception would be
• 1:16:17
  Sons of Seth. Right. That's true. So this is
• 1:16:21
  that's where the Doug Van Dorn comes in is like
• 1:16:23
  that's that's a lot of That's his speculation
• 1:16:27
  on on why it was added. That's fascinating was
• 1:16:30
  in order to clarify Nephilim not referring to
• 1:16:33
  sons of Seth. Yeah Yeah, that makes a lot of
• 1:16:37
  sense actually. Yeah, which is Something to unpack
• 1:16:40
  at a different time, which again is another big
• 1:16:42
  conversation to have. Yeah but um, but yeah,
• 1:16:47
  so That's Numbers 13, 30, where all of a sudden
• 1:16:52
  we see that there are, stated by the spies, that
• 1:16:56
  there are Nephilim in the land. Yeah. Which is,
• 1:17:02
  like, some people are like, I've never heard
• 1:17:03
  the word Nephilim before. It's like, alright,
• 1:17:06
  but it's not just in Genesis 6. Right. You see
• 1:17:10
  it here in Numbers, and this is way after. It's
• 1:17:16
  after the flood even, and the Nephilim are the
• 1:17:19
  ones causing havoc. They're doing some damage.
• 1:17:22
  That create this flood moment. Can I take an
• 1:17:26
  aside in here real quick? Yes. I've heard this
• 1:17:30
  from a few people, not everybody, which is probably
• 1:17:33
  good, but when it talks about a bad report, I
• 1:17:38
  think with that I've heard people say that it
• 1:17:40
  means they lied about it. They lied about what
• 1:17:43
  they were saying. And so I think it's really
• 1:17:45
  important to justify where I think you're going
• 1:17:50
  is like, okay, so did they lie and just say,
• 1:17:54
  oh yeah, there's these really big people there
• 1:17:56
  and we totally made it up. And I think it's interesting
• 1:18:00
  on just the context side is no one questions
• 1:18:03
  whether they're lying or not. They're just like,
• 1:18:05
  yep. Cool. Yeah, but also it's like language
• 1:18:09
  -wise we can do better than that. Sure. Yeah
• 1:18:12
  Where else we see that word which the the Hebrew
• 1:18:16
  word escapes me right now That's used there,
• 1:18:19
  but we see it in a number of other places in
• 1:18:21
  Scripture One of them is with Joseph when he
• 1:18:24
  returns from the fields visiting his brothers
• 1:18:27
  and gives his dad a report, says he gave his
• 1:18:29
  dad a bad report. Now, when we look at the character
• 1:18:32
  of Joseph, would he be the one to lie? I don't
• 1:18:35
  think so, because that would really undermine
• 1:18:37
  the entire story and how the character of Joseph,
• 1:18:40
  the story is painting. And then also we see a
• 1:18:44
  very similar description to this in Amos, when
• 1:18:48
  it talks about the very similar thing. Amos gets
• 1:18:50
  wild. Yeah, it does get wild. Those minor profits
• 1:18:54
  are on something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But
• 1:18:56
  so there's a couple other examples, too. But
• 1:18:58
  I think even with that, it's important to say
• 1:19:00
  that bad doesn't mean false. It means not good.
• 1:19:04
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we've talked about that
• 1:19:06
  before with false. If we're going to say that
• 1:19:08
  bad in this passage means false, but in other
• 1:19:10
  places, it doesn't. Yeah. Well, now we're picking
• 1:19:13
  and choosing. Sure. Or we have to call everyone
• 1:19:15
  else a liar as well. Yes. When it's like when
• 1:19:18
  they say that the spies gave a bad report. They
• 1:19:21
  didn't lie. They said, I don't have good news
• 1:19:24
  for you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've talked about
• 1:19:29
  that before, even with false in a different context.
• 1:19:32
  Yeah. Of the idea of like false gods. Right.
• 1:19:35
  It's like that word, that word in and of itself
• 1:19:37
  is kind of... It can be misleading. It can be.
• 1:19:41
  Yeah. And some of that is just the way we framed
• 1:19:43
  it or maybe the way that pastors have preached
• 1:19:45
  it in a way that's like... I mean, it's in the
• 1:19:48
  same way, it's like when we talk about what God
• 1:19:51
  created in Genesis. Yeah. Some people say, oh,
• 1:19:54
  the world is perfect. It's like, no, it wasn't.
• 1:19:56
  It never said that. Yeah. And so it's like the
• 1:19:58
  language that we use matters. It does. Yeah.
• 1:20:02
  For reasons like this, because it can give us
• 1:20:04
  a wrong idea of what the passage is actually
• 1:20:06
  saying. Yeah. Yeah. So this is numbers 21. Thus
• 1:20:14
  Israel lived in the land of the Amorites. And
• 1:20:17
  Moses sent to spy out Jayser. Jayser. And I don't
• 1:20:21
  know how to say that. And they captured its villages
• 1:20:23
  and dispossessed the Amorites who were there.
• 1:20:26
  Then they turned and went up by the way to Bashan.
• 1:20:29
  And Og, the king of Bashan, came out against
• 1:20:31
  them. He and all his people to the battle of
• 1:20:33
  Edri. But the Lord said to Moses, Do not fear
• 1:20:36
  him, for I have given him into your hands and
• 1:20:38
  all his people in his land. And you shall do
• 1:20:41
  to him as you did to Sihon. King of the Amorites
• 1:20:44
  who lived at Heshbon. So they defeated him and
• 1:20:47
  his sons and all his people until he had no survivor
• 1:20:49
  left and they possessed his land. You might be
• 1:20:53
  like, didn't you just read that? Yeah, I did,
• 1:20:56
  but in a different chapter. In a different place
• 1:20:59
  in the Torah. So it's this thing of like this
• 1:21:02
  story is being told over and over again. It's
• 1:21:04
  a big story. It is. It's a critical story. So
• 1:21:07
  the thing that's interesting about Og is what
• 1:21:11
  we see with Og is that he is a descendant. He's
• 1:21:19
  an Amorite king and he is a descendant of essentially
• 1:21:24
  the line of Ham Canaanites. Yeah. But he's also
• 1:21:29
  like the land of Canaan is flooded with the remnant
• 1:21:40
  of the pre -flood Nephilim. That is insane. Because
• 1:21:46
  one of the things that, like, one of the sub
• 1:21:49
  -questions in this conversation that I have always
• 1:21:52
  kind of had is, okay, the children of Israel
• 1:21:55
  go through and they fight all these wars and
• 1:21:57
  then they come into the land of Canaan and they
• 1:22:00
  go, oh, we saw all these big people and we felt
• 1:22:02
  like grasshoppers. Okay, cool, and then they
• 1:22:06
  got the, and then they, disobeyed God and then
• 1:22:09
  they were in the desert for 40 years and then
• 1:22:12
  they eventually came back and They were then
• 1:22:15
  they went and conquered the land. It's like,
• 1:22:17
  okay, that's the story But like what do you mean
• 1:22:21
  you went in and you felt like a grasshopper?
• 1:22:23
  What do you mean that they were actual Nephilim
• 1:22:26
  in the land? I thought that those were gone,
• 1:22:29
  right? I thought oh wait, but it does say they
• 1:22:32
  were in the land then and then in the days after.
• 1:22:35
  So these are the days after. In Genesis 6, when
• 1:22:40
  it says these are the days after, these are the
• 1:22:42
  days after they're talking about. And we know
• 1:22:44
  it's pretty far after because we're talking about
• 1:22:47
  well -established cities. Well, when God talks
• 1:22:50
  to Abraham, he says in 400 years. Yeah. And Abraham
• 1:22:55
  is pretty long after Noah. So even then there's
• 1:22:59
  established cities and civilizations. Yeah, so
• 1:23:02
  you're talking about hundreds of hundreds of
• 1:23:04
  years Yeah, so then the Nephilim in the land
• 1:23:08
  of Canaan have been there for hundreds and hundreds
• 1:23:11
  of years post -flood Yeah, so what does the land
• 1:23:15
  of Canaan look like? And also like I'm interested
• 1:23:19
  in the fruit that they brought back. Oh, man
• 1:23:22
  I wanna know what kind of fruit it was. Yeah.
• 1:23:25
  And if Nephilim are known to be man eaters, why'd
• 1:23:29
  they do that? They had awesome fruit. Land flowing
• 1:23:32
  with milk and honey. Not enough. Come on. But
• 1:23:35
  that's the point though. It isn't enough because
• 1:23:37
  - They want more. Yeah, because what they're
• 1:23:39
  desiring is not what the land produces, right?
• 1:23:44
  Right. So there's all this stuff happening. So
• 1:23:47
  then you kinda go like, all right, well, is there
• 1:23:50
  any description of Og? Well, I'm glad that you
• 1:23:52
  asked, Stephen. Good work, Stephen. Yeah, so
• 1:23:57
  I actually stopped before, but Deuteronomy 3,
• 1:24:01
  it says, where I stopped was verse 11, for only
• 1:24:07
  Og, the king of Bashan was left of the remnant
• 1:24:09
  of the Rephaim. And then in that same parenthetical,
• 1:24:12
  it says, behold, his bed was a bed of iron. Is
• 1:24:16
  it not in Reba of the Ammonites? Nine cubits
• 1:24:22
  was its length, and four cubits its breadth,
• 1:24:25
  according to the common cubit. When we took possession
• 1:24:29
  of the land at the time, I gave to the Rubanites
• 1:24:31
  and the Gadites and the territory beginning at
• 1:24:34
  Aor, which is on the edge of the valley of Arnon,
• 1:24:38
  and half the hill country of Gilead with its
• 1:24:42
  cities. The rest of Gilead, at all Beishon, the
• 1:24:45
  kingdom of Og, that is all the region of Argob,
• 1:24:48
  I have I gave to the half -tribe of Manasseh,
• 1:24:52
  all that portion of Beishon is called the land
• 1:24:55
  of Rephaim. So all the portion of Beishon is
• 1:24:59
  called the land of Rephaim. So real quick, let's
• 1:25:03
  get into this etymology real fast. Beishon. Beishon
• 1:25:08
  is, it's a derivation, I'm going to say this
• 1:25:12
  because I wrote this down, it's a derivation
• 1:25:14
  of the Semitic word for the serpent. Really?
• 1:25:18
  Yeah, so it's a derivation of the Semitic word
• 1:25:22
  for the serpent. So Beshan literally means the
• 1:25:26
  settlement of the serpent. That's crazy. Yeah.
• 1:25:29
  And right here in Deuteronomy 3 verse 13, it
• 1:25:35
  says all that portion of Beshan is called the
• 1:25:38
  land of Rephaim. Yeah. So that parallel of settlement
• 1:25:45
  of the serpent, the land of the Rephaim. It was
• 1:25:48
  this space that was actually at the base of Mount
• 1:25:52
  Hermon as well. I was about to say that. Amorite.
• 1:25:58
  That would mean like mountain dweller. People
• 1:26:04
  that dwell in the mountains. And most likely,
• 1:26:07
  Og would have ruled at the base from Mount Hermon.
• 1:26:12
  Yeah, and there's these massive monuments. There's
• 1:26:18
  actually circles of walls that are built up in
• 1:26:22
  Bashan that are this massive structure built
• 1:26:27
  out of basalt, which is volcanic rock. And it's
• 1:26:34
  built up in this spiral shape that if you look
• 1:26:39
  at it from above, just resembles a serpent. That's
• 1:26:42
  crazy. Yeah. And essentially was like this altar
• 1:26:46
  space that you can still see it. Like it's still
• 1:26:49
  there. But it's built up of this volcanic space
• 1:26:53
  or volcanic rock. Yeah. So I wanted to get to
• 1:26:59
  the end of that and then let's spend just a minute
• 1:27:02
  going. Why did it talk about his bed? Yeah. And
• 1:27:10
  for like the like two people out there probably
• 1:27:13
  that have this translation there are some that
• 1:27:16
  Translate that is like sarcophagus or coffin.
• 1:27:18
  Yeah, but most likely especially how we see that
• 1:27:21
  word in other places It's talking about like
• 1:27:23
  a couch or a bed true, especially because it's
• 1:27:26
  made out of iron. Yeah Yeah, it wouldn't have
• 1:27:28
  been a coffin. Yeah Yeah, so it's like we have
• 1:27:31
  so many like there's we're there's so many other
• 1:27:35
  episodes within this episode We're trying to
• 1:27:37
  just stay on og Yeah, because even when you ask
• 1:27:40
  me about the Raphael, I'm like, there's so many
• 1:27:42
  places we could go. I know. We need to do a whole
• 1:27:44
  episode. Especially a lot of places. How often
• 1:27:46
  the Bible talks about it, but you don't necessarily
• 1:27:48
  know what's talking about it unless you go into
• 1:27:50
  the Hebrew root of these words. Well, and let
• 1:27:54
  me say this, too. So we started out by saying,
• 1:27:57
  like, who is Og? Well, he's mentioned 22 times
• 1:27:59
  in the Bible. Yeah. That's pretty significant.
• 1:28:02
  And I think when we get into conversations like
• 1:28:04
  this, a lot of people would call this fringe
• 1:28:06
  theology. Right. But how does that make sense?
• 1:28:11
  It's a guy that's mentioned 22 times in the Bible.
• 1:28:13
  You're talking about Rephaim that's mentioned
• 1:28:15
  so many times in the Bible. We're looking at
• 1:28:17
  these really critical things, and it's called
• 1:28:20
  French theology. I don't understand how that—like,
• 1:28:23
  I get the speculative elements of it. I understand
• 1:28:26
  that. And there's a piece to that. And that's
• 1:28:30
  fun to speculate and have conversations about.
• 1:28:33
  I feel like we're trying to sit on like, well,
• 1:28:34
  what does the Bible actually say? Where does
• 1:28:38
  it say all of these things? What is it actually
• 1:28:40
  talking about? That stuff's not speculative.
• 1:28:43
  And because of that, it's not fringe. Why it's
• 1:28:46
  fringe is because no one's talking about it.
• 1:28:49
  And it's like, why is no one talking about -
• 1:28:52
  Well, we don't know the Bible actually says those
• 1:28:53
  things. I know. And I think that's, like you
• 1:28:55
  just said, that's kind of where we're sitting.
• 1:28:57
  It's like, before we jump into the actual fringe
• 1:29:00
  theology, more speculation, let's look at, well,
• 1:29:04
  what does it actually just say? Right. And everything
• 1:29:06
  that we've said so far is like, this is just
• 1:29:09
  what it says. Yeah. That's literally, and it
• 1:29:11
  says it, we've read it in multiple different
• 1:29:14
  ways. This is how it describes him. This is what
• 1:29:15
  it said he did. Yeah. This is who he's associated
• 1:29:17
  with. Yeah. None of that is speculation. It's
• 1:29:21
  in the hard text. Yeah, exactly. So then we see
• 1:29:25
  this idea. Again, I just think that's so important
• 1:29:29
  to emphasize when it's like, we're not making
• 1:29:31
  this up. You can pull up all these verses yourself.
• 1:29:34
  And I hope you do. Yeah, exactly. So real quick,
• 1:29:39
  and then we'll wrap this part up. But I just
• 1:29:45
  want to read this bed portion. Let's talk about
• 1:29:48
  this man's bed. It says, behold, his bed was
• 1:29:52
  a bed of iron. Is it not in Rabah of the Ammonites?
• 1:29:56
  Nine cubits was its length, and four cubits its
• 1:29:58
  breadth, according to the common cubit. So it's
• 1:30:02
  just interesting that it mentions that at all.
• 1:30:04
  And you're like, OK. And there's all this speculation
• 1:30:07
  of Og's bed and what happened on Og's bed. And
• 1:30:11
  you're like, all right, well, what is the what's
• 1:30:15
  going on here? So yeah. So I wanted to read this.
• 1:30:20
  So King Aug's bed, an iron bed, which is allegedly
• 1:30:24
  still to be seen in Ammon, poses a permanent
• 1:30:29
  problem for the commentators and other scholars
• 1:30:32
  dealing with Deuteronomy 311. Since the beginnings
• 1:30:35
  of historical critical scholarship, The most
• 1:30:38
  widespread proposal for its solution has been
• 1:30:42
  the examination that, in fact, Og's iron bed
• 1:30:45
  was a sarcophagus of basalt. So being that serpent
• 1:30:53
  monument in the middle of that is where Og's
• 1:30:57
  bed is. Essentially what I'm reading is a scholarly
• 1:31:05
  work with tons of footnotes, basically saying
• 1:31:07
  that for the most part, most people agree and
• 1:31:11
  have agreed for a long time that Og's bed is
• 1:31:14
  actually his tomb. It's his burial place. It's
• 1:31:17
  his sarcophagus. Which is interesting. It is.
• 1:31:22
  Because kind of what I was saying earlier, because
• 1:31:25
  I read in other places, like, no, it was actually
• 1:31:27
  just a bed. Right. On how the Bible describes
• 1:31:31
  it. Sure. Yeah. Especially because what's interesting
• 1:31:34
  about that is because tombs and sarcophagus were
• 1:31:37
  mostly stone and marble. But this one, it says
• 1:31:40
  it's made out of iron. Right. So this says, another
• 1:31:45
  somewhat less popular view, which was first established
• 1:31:49
  by P. Carg in 1917, so a hundred years ago, claims
• 1:31:55
  that Augsbed was a prehistoric dolmen. one of
• 1:31:59
  the megalithic tombs which are typical of the
• 1:32:02
  Transjordanian area. An increasing number of
• 1:32:06
  modern commentators, however, have become uncertain
• 1:32:09
  and are not able to decide what is meant by the
• 1:32:13
  iron bed, which is what you're saying. Or they
• 1:32:15
  are searching for new explanations. To those
• 1:32:18
  who reject the traditional solutions, which would
• 1:32:21
  be that it's a sarcophagus, For instance, the
• 1:32:25
  authors of three recent commentaries on the book
• 1:32:27
  of Deuteronomy, which includes several people,
• 1:32:31
  they all are of the opinion that Og's bed was
• 1:32:33
  nothing else but a real bedstead which was decorated
• 1:32:37
  with iron. So that kind of leans back into that.
• 1:32:42
  So basically what this article is saying is that
• 1:32:49
  a lot of people's solution was that it was a
• 1:32:52
  sarcophagus. but there's a lot more commentators
• 1:32:59
  that are looking at it and resolving to, well,
• 1:33:02
  if it's an iron bed, then it most likely is his
• 1:33:06
  bed. Which, before we get to that, I want to
• 1:33:13
  wrap this up and then we can jump back to the
• 1:33:15
  bed to jump to something that's coming. So, one
• 1:33:20
  of the things like, So then who is Og? Let's
• 1:33:24
  just take this kind of simple. Yeah. If we look
• 1:33:27
  at who is Og and why it's important that we know
• 1:33:29
  who Og is, Og is essentially the king of the
• 1:33:34
  Ammonites when the children of Israel are making
• 1:33:38
  their way back into the promised land that was
• 1:33:40
  promised to Abram while he was standing in the
• 1:33:45
  promised land and God made the covenant with
• 1:33:47
  him that his in four generations and 400 years
• 1:33:51
  that his children, his offspring, would come
• 1:33:55
  back and inhabit this land. And that king was
• 1:33:59
  in the way of that promise. But before he was
• 1:34:02
  in the way of that promise, he was part of a
• 1:34:04
  corrupted bloodline that goes back to the iniquity
• 1:34:07
  of Ham and his sin post -flood, being part of
• 1:34:12
  the only righteous family seen on earth, Noah's
• 1:34:15
  family, that was spared in the bringing up of
• 1:34:23
  the waters of Sheol, bringing back up the flood
• 1:34:28
  waters and the waters and the chaos and the Leviathan
• 1:34:32
  from the beginning, pulling that all back up,
• 1:34:35
  creating moments of chaos again where the world
• 1:34:38
  starts to lose its shape and becomes a little
• 1:34:42
  bit void again and then pushes back down and
• 1:34:45
  creates this reset. And why that happened was
• 1:34:49
  because of the iniquity on the sons of God laying
• 1:34:54
  with the daughters of man and creating Nephilim
• 1:34:56
  in the land who created chaos in the land and
• 1:35:00
  corrupted the bloodlines of those children of
• 1:35:04
  Adam and Eve who were supposed to steward and
• 1:35:08
  multiply in the land. And so Og is this final
• 1:35:12
  remnant. That we see of this whole line and this
• 1:35:16
  whole story line that God tried to wipe out with
• 1:35:19
  the flood He did that but then it was corrupted
• 1:35:23
  again almost in the same way With this unholy
• 1:35:28
  What did you call it Union Union this unholy
• 1:35:32
  Union? Is that David Bowie? This unholy Union
• 1:35:37
  and White wedding, that's what it is. This unholy
• 1:35:43
  union that continues this corruption of what
• 1:35:49
  was let in in the garden, which was this unholy
• 1:35:55
  movement of the serpent and the devil and his
• 1:36:00
  angels, as Jesus would say, that this is happening
• 1:36:04
  and Og is the final remnant of that. and the
• 1:36:09
  Canaanites in the land with Nephilim actually
• 1:36:12
  still in the land of Canaan. All of this needs
• 1:36:15
  to be wiped out the same way it needed to be
• 1:36:18
  wiped out when the flood came. All of this stuff.
• 1:36:22
  So Israel is enacting the judgment of God that
• 1:36:25
  started back at Genesis 6. happens because of
• 1:36:30
  what happens in Genesis 3. And all of this stuff
• 1:36:33
  is all tying in together. So Og is this figurehead
• 1:36:37
  of the final remnant of Ham, the final remnant
• 1:36:42
  of the Nephilim. He's that final remnant. And
• 1:36:45
  then we see one last ditch effort a little bit
• 1:36:49
  later with the psalmist himself, King David,
• 1:36:55
  who references Og himself. And in that, it's
• 1:37:00
  this through line where they keep trying to cut
• 1:37:04
  at the solution of the pure bloodline of humanity
• 1:37:09
  and what God intended to be on the earth that
• 1:37:12
  eventually Jesus would show up and do what we
• 1:37:15
  couldn't do. And in that, over and over again,
• 1:37:20
  you see this remnant of the Nephilim, this remnant
• 1:37:23
  of the sons of God corrupting the daughters of
• 1:37:27
  man on the earth and corrupting, as Enoch 1 would
• 1:37:34
  speculate, maybe say it that way, of knowledge
• 1:37:37
  given that we weren't supposed to have, which
• 1:37:39
  is reminiscent of Genesis 3 and the knowledge
• 1:37:42
  potentially that we get from the tree. in the
• 1:37:47
  knowledge of good and evil and all of that stuff
• 1:37:49
  playing out together and you see that like this
• 1:37:53
  remnant of the Nephilim are just trying to pick
• 1:37:55
  off the children of God and keep them out and
• 1:38:00
  keep them in pure as much as they can. In a way
• 1:38:02
  of usurping authority. Yes. Because when we look
• 1:38:06
  at, we've talked about this before, it's like
• 1:38:07
  when we look at who was given authority of the
• 1:38:10
  earth, well it was humans. Yeah. And then we
• 1:38:13
  gave that authority over. Yes. Yeah, so you look
• 1:38:18
  at Og and you go, who is Og? Well, Og is the
• 1:38:21
  final remnant, the final king to be slain because
• 1:38:27
  Goliath later on is not a king. He's a warrior
• 1:38:31
  and he's still of the remnant of the Nephilim,
• 1:38:34
  but he's not a king. And that's a different distinction.
• 1:38:38
  So Aug is the last remnant of the Nephilim, who
• 1:38:43
  is a king over a massive region that is at the
• 1:38:47
  foot of Mount Hermon, which has other significance
• 1:38:53
  pointing back to Genesis 6, and potentially to
• 1:38:57
  Eden, depending on who you talk to. But we do
• 1:39:00
  see like as it goes down, it's like there's that
• 1:39:03
  dilution. Yes. Which is where it come to Goliath.
• 1:39:05
  He's like he's a diluted form of what Og represents.
• 1:39:09
  Yeah. Yeah. And it's cool, too, because you even
• 1:39:11
  see like in the psalm, the psalmist, I think
• 1:39:14
  I read from 136, you see the the the defeating
• 1:39:18
  of Og and was a scion. Yeah. And you see that.
• 1:39:23
  But in Psalm 133, it talks about it talks about.
• 1:39:28
  the dew on Herman, the dew on Mount Herman, and
• 1:39:33
  then even the anointing oil on Aaron's beard.
• 1:39:37
  And it's this redemption of Mount Herman, which
• 1:39:40
  is a place of pagan worship for a long time.
• 1:39:43
  And it's this redemption of that. And then 136,
• 1:39:45
  he kind of calls back to the remnant that was
• 1:39:49
  there that made, that continued the corruption
• 1:39:52
  of Herman and that space. It's just, it's all
• 1:39:55
  tied in. It's all like everything is intentionally
• 1:39:59
  there for a reason. So you go, who is Og? Og
• 1:40:03
  is the final, he's the final Nephilim king. Yeah.
• 1:40:07
  That's who he is. Yeah. Which is pretty crazy.
• 1:40:12
  It's pretty wild to think about. Yeah. And it's
• 1:40:14
  one of those like, these are the dots that the
• 1:40:16
  Bible puts together for us. Yeah, it does it
• 1:40:18
  all for us. Yeah. So, Og's bed. Ogg's bed. There's
• 1:40:29
  speculation on that. But yeah, there's a lot
• 1:40:33
  on that. Yeah. So I think I think we're going
• 1:40:38
  to try something in this episode. Do we snap
• 1:40:42
  into this? We're going to have to. Yeah. So all
• 1:40:45
  right. This should be episode 12, I believe.
• 1:40:50
  And this is the first time we're doing this.
• 1:40:54
  Yeah. So let us know if you want us to do this.
• 1:40:56
  We've kind of teased this on a previous episode.
• 1:40:59
  We did. And then we've teased it through this
• 1:41:01
  episode. Yes. And this might be a slightly longer
• 1:41:04
  episode, but we'll keep this next segment short
• 1:41:08
  as a teaser. It doesn't deserve a lot of time.
• 1:41:11
  No. And if you made it this far, you deserve
• 1:41:14
  it. Have a triple portion. And potentially don't
• 1:41:19
  want it. We're about to do, for the first time,
• 1:41:24
  a new segment. And this new segment, we want
• 1:41:27
  to hear your feedback if you want us to do this
• 1:41:30
  segment. Well, I think that we will intentionally
• 1:41:32
  keep this segment short, even in the future.
• 1:41:36
  Just because it's it's a fun, 100 % speculative.
• 1:41:40
  And there's no resolution. There's no resolution.
• 1:41:42
  It's just. Here it is. What do you think? Yeah.
• 1:41:47
  So it's all it's all. Can I say what it's called?
• 1:41:49
  Or should we save that? We will after we snap.
• 1:41:51
  Okay. We'll save it for the snap. We'll save
• 1:41:53
  it for the snap. So if you're not staying for
• 1:41:55
  this, this is the after party. If we had a Patreon,
• 1:42:00
  maybe this would be the Patreon. That could be
• 1:42:02
  fun. So let us know. Here's some free content.
• 1:42:06
  Yeah, so new first time segment for Martyrs Row.
• 1:42:12
  Stay tuned. Take one. Three, two, one. Welcome
• 1:42:16
  to Conspiracy Corner. Uh oh, Paul. Welcome to
• 1:42:28
  the conspiracy zone. Conspiracy corner. I think
• 1:42:33
  it's funny because we emphasized in the main
• 1:42:36
  segment how much like we're focused on like,
• 1:42:39
  what does the Bible say? And now we're giving
• 1:42:43
  you a fair warning. Well, think about like, think
• 1:42:45
  about like youth camp. Yeah, yeah. Like youth
• 1:42:48
  camp, you're like, There's very serious, very
• 1:42:51
  reverent, you're fully focused on the Lord, and
• 1:42:56
  then there's the after -party hangout where people
• 1:42:58
  are throwing jello in your face. Or you're bobbing
• 1:43:02
  for apples and beans. And you're like, what are
• 1:43:05
  we doing? We were just doing something else.
• 1:43:08
  That's kind of what this is. We're at the part
• 1:43:10
  of the sleepover where it's like 2 a .m. and
• 1:43:12
  you're like, I can't go to sleep yet. So what
• 1:43:15
  do you think about? What do you think about?
• 1:43:17
  uh do you think that uh yeah what if don't think
• 1:43:22
  i'm weird for asking this yeah so this is the
• 1:43:26
  no judgment side um i feel like some of you have
• 1:43:29
  probably just been waiting for this probably
• 1:43:32
  And then others of you are like, I'm out. And
• 1:43:34
  they're like, oh, I'm just getting the Bible.
• 1:43:40
  And then others of you are going to be like,
• 1:43:42
  oh, well, now they're talking about this stuff
• 1:43:43
  that now I can't believe anything that they're
• 1:43:45
  saying. Humans are more complex than that. Yeah,
• 1:43:49
  we're very complex creatures. Yes. So did you
• 1:43:53
  say preachers or creatures? Probably both. Complex
• 1:43:57
  creatures. All right, let's jump right into it.
• 1:43:59
  That'll be the, yeah, yeah, yeah. Conspiracy
• 1:44:01
  quarter. I have a question for you. Oh no. I
• 1:44:06
  promise I didn't write this one. Have you ever
• 1:44:08
  watched a movie before? Yeah. From Paramount?
• 1:44:11
  I have. What does their logo look like? Could
• 1:44:15
  you describe it from memory? Is Paramount the
• 1:44:17
  one that has the stars that go over the mountain?
• 1:44:20
  It does, yeah. It's like the, there's like a
• 1:44:22
  trail of stars that go up over the mountain.
• 1:44:24
  Yeah. That's it. You did it. Actually, yeah,
• 1:44:30
  so it's it's funny because someone asked me that
• 1:44:32
  and I was like, what does it look like? I completely
• 1:44:35
  forgot and then it all came back. I was like,
• 1:44:37
  oh, yeah, so yeah paramount pictures Okay, it's
• 1:44:41
  been around for a while. It has yeah early 1900s.
• 1:44:45
  That makes sense And so the golden age the golden
• 1:44:49
  age. Yeah something else actually Well, so one
• 1:44:58
  of the founders... I love that you have a notepad
• 1:45:00
  right now for this. Actually, I feel like I need
• 1:45:02
  crazy hair. I know. So check this out. I should
• 1:45:07
  get some yarn. We need a desk. We should get
• 1:45:09
  some yarn. Just pin it across the... We could
• 1:45:13
  do that for real. That would actually be kind
• 1:45:15
  of fun. So one of the founders of Paramount Pictures
• 1:45:18
  was William Wadsworth Hodkinson. What a name.
• 1:45:24
  That's when they could name their kids back in
• 1:45:26
  the day. Yeah, that's true. And he was also the
• 1:45:29
  inventor of the logo. He designed the logo. And
• 1:45:32
  so as the story goes, he was out with some of
• 1:45:36
  his partners at some restaurant and he just kind
• 1:45:40
  of jotted it down on a napkin. Okay. Tail as
• 1:45:42
  old as time. Yeah, why is everything on a napkin
• 1:45:46
  back then? Like, I came up with this brilliant
• 1:45:48
  idea, wrote it down on a napkin. Yeah. It's like,
• 1:45:51
  okay. Well, I mean, I guess... They didn't have
• 1:45:54
  a notepad at dinner. Yeah, they're not just hanging
• 1:45:56
  out with these. And they don't have phones. I
• 1:45:58
  think it's just funny it's become a cliche. Yeah,
• 1:46:01
  yeah, yeah. Because it's just a story now. Yeah,
• 1:46:04
  but a cliche usually is based in truth. Yeah,
• 1:46:07
  it came, it's probably because this really happened.
• 1:46:09
  Yeah, of course. Now, they say as the legend
• 1:46:11
  goes, but whatever. As the legend goes. As the
• 1:46:14
  legend goes. And so he designed this pyramid
• 1:46:18
  -shaped mountain peak. capped by snow with 29
• 1:46:22
  stars. Oh, I was actually going to ask you. OK,
• 1:46:26
  Paul, what do the stars mean? Well, so it's interesting.
• 1:46:29
  There's a couple of things that are going on.
• 1:46:30
  I like that you say pyramid shaped mountain.
• 1:46:32
  You like that? Well, so our boy, our boy, WW
• 1:46:38
  here. When we're away. What was his last name?
• 1:46:43
  Hodkinson. WWH? WWH. Well, so he's a Utah boy,
• 1:46:54
  okay, and so it's believed and this is what a
• 1:46:57
  lot of people say the mountain and what he designed
• 1:47:01
  was based off of um ben lamond which is one of
• 1:47:04
  the mountain ranges there okay i was like i don't
• 1:47:06
  know who that is yeah some guy um so that's where
• 1:47:10
  and actually you'll even see that in a lot of
• 1:47:12
  people they even claim that today that's like
• 1:47:14
  oh that's what that mountain range is based off
• 1:47:16
  of that peak okay um does it look anything like
• 1:47:19
  it it doesn't now because there was actually
• 1:47:21
  there's been several redesigns which we'll get
• 1:47:23
  into that makes sense um and so now it looks
• 1:47:26
  like it's more likely based off of a mountain,
• 1:47:29
  Peru, which actually could also be kind of interesting.
• 1:47:32
  Yeah, you jump from Utah to Peru, that's a...
• 1:47:34
  Yeah, different mountain, but even then it's
• 1:47:36
  kind of like, maybe. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of
• 1:47:39
  interesting. There's actually, there's a guy
• 1:47:40
  on Reddit talking about this, and he's like,
• 1:47:42
  I dare you to find me a picture of Ben Lamon
• 1:47:46
  that looks like the Paramount logo today. Well,
• 1:47:49
  also like, why... He like posted a map, he's
• 1:47:51
  like, I dare you. I'll pay you all the money
• 1:47:54
  I have. I was like, this guy's pretty serious
• 1:47:57
  about this. But also, why does it need to look
• 1:47:59
  like that? Yeah, and he just drew it. And it's
• 1:48:03
  been like that since he drew it. That's wild.
• 1:48:05
  So they've had a few redesigns of the classic.
• 1:48:11
  Logo, okay, and the original one I think it was
• 1:48:14
  just a crown that said paramount pictures over
• 1:48:17
  top of it gotcha And then he drew this and it's
• 1:48:19
  been that way since the early 1900s. I think
• 1:48:21
  1914 Wow to today. Yeah. Yeah, it's been the
• 1:48:24
  same thing with slightly some adjustments So
• 1:48:27
  it's literally a hundred years. Yeah. Oh wait.
• 1:48:30
  No, I'm almost 110. Yeah Well, so some of the
• 1:48:35
  partners Bought out Hodkinson and they changed
• 1:48:39
  the stars the nut the count Oh, but not the mountain.
• 1:48:43
  The mountain stayed the same. They changed it
• 1:48:45
  to 24. And it was originally 29. Originally 29.
• 1:48:48
  Okay, so they took five. Yeah, they took five
• 1:48:51
  away. And this time they said it was to symbolize
• 1:48:54
  the contracted movie stars they had. And so their
• 1:48:57
  plan was every time they would sign on a new
• 1:49:00
  movie star, they would add a star. That's kind
• 1:49:02
  of cute. So it's kind of cool, right? It's kind
• 1:49:04
  of cute. Well, yeah. And that's around that time
• 1:49:08
  is when the, the mountain inspo changed to Mount.
• 1:49:14
  Artisan Raju? No, I don't know. Some mountain.
• 1:49:17
  Okay. Probably it's an H sound because it's Peru.
• 1:49:20
  Okay. But then in 1966, there's another redesign
• 1:49:25
  that changed the stars to 22. We just keep going
• 1:49:29
  down. keep going down but this time you may ask
• 1:49:33
  like okay well you had 24 so 22 is that how many
• 1:49:35
  movie stars you have now and some people would
• 1:49:38
  say yes so down seven but according to them they
• 1:49:40
  say no now they're just stars weird it's like
• 1:49:44
  hmm why make that decision that's kind of interesting
• 1:49:47
  yeah just leave 25 you'd think right yeah i would
• 1:49:52
  um and then in 1986 um They had a guy commissioned
• 1:50:00
  a painting. They commissioned a painting from
• 1:50:01
  this dude. Okay, Dario Campanile I wrote this
• 1:50:07
  Campanile Campanile and he updated it obviously
• 1:50:11
  Italian for the 75th anniversary. Okay So this
• 1:50:16
  will be a 9 1914 yes Plus 75. Oh, because we're
• 1:50:29
  in, oh, yes. Well, so we're in 1986 right now.
• 1:50:32
  OK, I was not close. I was going to say close.
• 1:50:36
  I mean, I'm like three off. And so with this,
• 1:50:40
  that's when we start to see, especially even
• 1:50:42
  moving into today, we have some of the animation.
• 1:50:44
  And what's interesting is because they added
• 1:50:47
  water in front of the mountain. And what we see
• 1:50:49
  today is we see those stars kind of hovering
• 1:50:52
  over the water and then encircling the mountain.
• 1:50:56
  That's what Disney does too. Oh yeah, with the
• 1:50:59
  castle? Yeah, it goes over the water and then
• 1:51:01
  it comes up. Which looks magical, doesn't it?
• 1:51:04
  It does. Well, there's a conspiracy going on
• 1:51:08
  around here. Which is where I'm getting to. Around
• 1:51:10
  these parts? Around these parts. And there are
• 1:51:14
  people that say that the 22 stars is a reference
• 1:51:25
  to the Book of Enoch. Oh, interesting. And it
• 1:51:28
  refers to the 22 Watchers that were named that
• 1:51:33
  descended upon Mount Hermon. Which is the mountain.
• 1:51:36
  Which some even say that pyramid -shaped peak
• 1:51:39
  is one representative of the mount, which Mount
• 1:51:43
  Hermon doesn't look like that. Right. But they're
• 1:51:45
  saying that's what it's representing in that
• 1:51:47
  mountain peak. You could even say it goes back
• 1:51:50
  to like Nimrod with the ziggurat that he built.
• 1:51:52
  Yeah. Is the tower leading up to the mountain
• 1:51:56
  peak to, you know, do some wild stuff. Yeah,
• 1:51:58
  because that's what a ziggurat is. It's a man
• 1:52:00
  -made mountain. Yes. Yeah. Well, now there's
• 1:52:05
  some problems. Okay with this conspiracy theory
• 1:52:08
  that they present. Yeah, that's that's a It's
• 1:52:12
  weird to me to jump from That's a weird number
• 1:52:16
  to change the stars to to it's the book of Enoch
• 1:52:19
  Yeah, well, it's like so it's it's interesting
• 1:52:22
  because there is a lot of symbolism that makes
• 1:52:24
  it compelling Okay, and there's a lot of people
• 1:52:27
  even the non -christians that will see that they're
• 1:52:29
  like, yeah It's actually kind of an interesting
• 1:52:30
  theory if you believe it Yeah. And I was like,
• 1:52:33
  oh, so you're not even denying it. And there
• 1:52:36
  are some interesting things going on around here.
• 1:52:39
  I mean, even when you look at like Nickelodeon.
• 1:52:42
  OK. So because, you know, there's been that there
• 1:52:44
  was what was the name of that show that just
• 1:52:46
  came out? Quiet On Set or something. I think
• 1:52:49
  it was called. We're kind of exposed Dan Schneider.
• 1:52:51
  Oh, yeah. And so Nickelodeon is acquired in 1990
• 1:52:56
  by Paramount. OK. And Dan Schneider started his
• 1:53:00
  career there in 93. It's like oh, there's a lot
• 1:53:03
  of weird stuff that happened around this time.
• 1:53:04
  Yeah, but like Hollywood in general is just kind
• 1:53:06
  of weird True, but anyway going back probably
• 1:53:09
  for the same reason probably Yeah, and so I think
• 1:53:13
  it's it's one thing to say if this conspiracy
• 1:53:15
  theory is right Yeah, that it didn't start out
• 1:53:19
  this way, but it there may have been some kind
• 1:53:22
  of influence that was placed even the fact that
• 1:53:24
  it's like If he drew this down on a napkin, the
• 1:53:27
  inspiration just kind of hit him in a moment
• 1:53:29
  is what it signifies. Sure. And so, yeah, there
• 1:53:31
  could have been some outside influence that was
• 1:53:34
  pushing him in this direction. Yeah. But he had
• 1:53:37
  a different number of stars. Yeah, which me personally,
• 1:53:40
  I don't think, I think it's like he just had
• 1:53:42
  an idea. Yeah. And it kind of turned into this
• 1:53:46
  thing that it is now. Sure. But going back to
• 1:53:48
  what I was saying, there's a problem. OK. And
• 1:53:53
  these 22 watchers that they're claiming are named
• 1:53:56
  in the Book of Enoch. Well, there aren't 22 that
• 1:54:00
  are named. I was going to say. There's only 20
• 1:54:03
  that are named. OK. And so you'd think, OK, that
• 1:54:07
  alone is just like it's just a lot of coincidences.
• 1:54:10
  Yeah. And there's really not much to it. Well,
• 1:54:14
  it gets a little bit more interesting than that,
• 1:54:18
  in my opinion. Tell us, Paul. So there are different
• 1:54:22
  manuscripts for the Book of Enoch. Yes. And they
• 1:54:25
  contain variations in the list of names. Oh.
• 1:54:28
  And so I didn't consider that. It's interesting.
• 1:54:31
  And that's the reason why it's difficult. Even
• 1:54:32
  a lot of the translation that I have, there are
• 1:54:37
  things in parentheses and stuff like we don't
• 1:54:40
  actually know because this part was corrupted.
• 1:54:43
  Whoa. So they're like I think I know where you're
• 1:54:45
  going with this. Yeah. And so we actually don't
• 1:54:48
  know, we assume this is part of it, it makes
• 1:54:50
  sense that this would be in here. So when it
• 1:54:53
  gives the list of names, it says, oh, here's
• 1:54:55
  the leader, then the 20th down from him, it goes
• 1:54:58
  in that order. And then in the last line of that,
• 1:55:03
  this is in chapter six of the book of Enoch,
• 1:55:05
  the first Enoch, it says, and these are their
• 1:55:08
  chiefs of tens, but they actually don't know
• 1:55:12
  if that's what it actually says. Okay, and because
• 1:55:15
  so there's other there's other translations say
• 1:55:17
  and these were their leaders or this was the
• 1:55:19
  leaders These were the leaders of the 200 gotcha
• 1:55:22
  because we know there were 200 total, right?
• 1:55:24
  There's only 20 that are named based on the most
• 1:55:27
  popular manuscripts right now. So leaders of
• 1:55:29
  ten groups of ten Yeah, that makes sense. Well,
• 1:55:32
  so we have like the book of Jubilees second Enoch
• 1:55:36
  and medieval demonology works Sometimes add or
• 1:55:40
  conflate the names of the watchers giving rise
• 1:55:42
  to their maybe being more Okay, so and this is
• 1:55:46
  the part that gets interesting for me Yeah, where
• 1:55:48
  so the people out on tik -tok and stuff that
• 1:55:51
  are saying, oh, there's 22 blah blah. Well in
• 1:55:54
  the book of Enoch, it doesn't show that there
• 1:55:56
  are 22, it shows that there are 20. But because
• 1:55:58
  of these other works, like Jubilee's second Enoch
• 1:56:01
  and medieval demonology work, which they spent
• 1:56:03
  a lot of time on demonology in that time. They
• 1:56:05
  did, yeah, yeah. They were kind of obsessed with
• 1:56:08
  it. Yeah, we should get into that, like medieval,
• 1:56:12
  like that era for theology was like really...
• 1:56:15
  It's fascinating, yeah. Because they're coming
• 1:56:18
  off of the early church and all the works that
• 1:56:21
  they came out with. Yeah, which is more praxis.
• 1:56:23
  Yeah, and then and then you get into like Categorizing
• 1:56:27
  the unseen realm. Yes, which goes back to the
• 1:56:29
  very beginning of our episode. It's true That's
• 1:56:32
  true. Yeah, it all ties together. Yeah, because
• 1:56:35
  they were a lot on demons and angels Yeah, so
• 1:56:39
  heavenly beings. Yeah, I mean a lot of our ideas
• 1:56:41
  came from them and their artistic works Oh, absolutely.
• 1:56:44
  Yeah, like the way we imagine everything is from
• 1:56:47
  medieval times. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Well,
• 1:56:51
  so um with that being said And this is where
• 1:56:54
  I think it gets really interesting for me. So
• 1:56:56
  the number 22 is a significant number in ancient
• 1:57:00
  Jewish mysticism. So there are 22 letters in
• 1:57:05
  the Hebrew alphabet. And keep in mind, the original
• 1:57:10
  guy was definitely Jewish. Yeah. You're talking
• 1:57:16
  about early Hollywood. Yeah. Which actually,
• 1:57:20
  even that is interesting. And it kind of shows
• 1:57:22
  just um and it's not me like being weird about
• 1:57:27
  anything but it's like i mean we're already talking
• 1:57:30
  about yeah true we're already being weird but
• 1:57:33
  it's like when you look at hollywood that was
• 1:57:35
  considered like a dirty job yeah yeah um and
• 1:57:38
  so with the perspective at that time on jewish
• 1:57:42
  people yeah they got the dirty job which was
• 1:57:45
  like wall street and hollywood sure because no
• 1:57:48
  one else wanted to do it they're like that's
• 1:57:50
  that's like being a garbage man yeah And so they
• 1:57:52
  took it and they made it successful. Yeah. Which
• 1:57:56
  is fascinating. It is. Well, so yeah, there are
• 1:58:00
  22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet. In the Book
• 1:58:03
  of Formation, which is a Jewish mystic book,
• 1:58:06
  creation is said to have been accomplished through
• 1:58:08
  these 22 letters as they represent the fundamental
• 1:58:12
  elements of divine speech. Kabbalistic teachings
• 1:58:20
  say the tree of life has 22 paths corresponding
• 1:58:24
  to the 22 letters linking the spiritual and the
• 1:58:28
  material worlds and 22 may represent a complete
• 1:58:31
  list of names knowledge or cosmic forces and
• 1:58:35
  so that number 22 in Mysticism would have been
• 1:58:39
  used to show significance So for me, that's what
• 1:58:43
  makes this conspiracy a little bit more interesting
• 1:58:47
  Because people are coming out and saying like
• 1:58:48
  oh, they're 22 listed. It's like well. No, there's
• 1:58:50
  not But it's still interesting yeah, and it could
• 1:58:53
  still point to that in a very roundabout way
• 1:58:56
  sure in a mystic way Yeah, but what about the
• 1:58:59
  29? Yeah, and that there's like we don't know
• 1:59:02
  why he did it, huh? I wonder where 29 comes from
• 1:59:06
  and because it's a very interesting number it
• 1:59:08
  is and so for me It's like early on I don't think
• 1:59:12
  and I think that's the issue that This conspiracy
• 1:59:15
  can fall into and people look at it like oh that
• 1:59:18
  was the plan from the beginning It's like I don't
• 1:59:19
  think so. I think he when we look at Going back
• 1:59:24
  to like Ezekiel. It's like the king of Tyre and
• 1:59:27
  the prince of Tyre It's like I think there might
• 1:59:29
  have been some influence sure, but then his human
• 1:59:31
  side of it kind of took over Yeah, he was like,
• 1:59:34
  oh I have this idea this muse that spoke to me.
• 1:59:38
  Yeah And so I came up with this idea and then
• 1:59:41
  he kind of added his own flair to it. That makes
• 1:59:43
  sense. Or broke down in translation. Maybe he
• 1:59:46
  was 29. Maybe. I feel like it's a good number.
• 1:59:52
  But then we see like over time there are things
• 1:59:55
  in like the animation of the logo and what happens
• 1:59:57
  that is very, very appropriate to... What the
• 2:00:04
  conspiracy? Yeah, the speculation that makes
• 2:00:07
  sense is that like even for it to hover over
• 2:00:10
  the water in the beginning of the animation Seems
• 2:00:12
  to point back to Genesis where we see the Spirit
• 2:00:14
  of God hovering over the face of the deep a Jewish
• 2:00:17
  mysticism Yeah, yeah, and then for them to circle
• 2:00:20
  the mountain which is shaped like a pyramid Yeah,
• 2:00:24
  and it's like well when we look at Enoch. It
• 2:00:26
  says the washers descended upon Mount Hermon.
• 2:00:29
  Yeah It's like when we see that it came up from
• 2:00:32
  the water from the water from the chaos. Yes
• 2:00:34
  circled the mountain Yeah, and it's like that
• 2:00:37
  was their way of descending down So it's a conspiracy.
• 2:00:43
  Yeah That's it So what are your final thoughts?
• 2:00:50
  So my final thoughts are it's inconclusive. Okay.
• 2:00:53
  It's like I think that there is something fascinating
• 2:00:56
  about it sure and especially when we talk about
• 2:00:59
  just Hollywood in general which they represent
• 2:01:02
  I mean some of these guys are even listed as
• 2:01:04
  like the fathers of Hollywood Yeah, because they're
• 2:01:07
  the originator like they created. Yeah true even
• 2:01:10
  the way it like it runs They're the ones who
• 2:01:12
  started that idea of running it in this certain
• 2:01:15
  way and so This birth that came from them it
• 2:01:20
  wouldn't surprise me if they were connected to
• 2:01:23
  the Watchers in some way that makes sense Yeah,
• 2:01:26
  I get that. Yeah. Yeah, but I think it's like
• 2:01:29
  I think we need to be careful how we talk about
• 2:01:32
  it. Let's make sure we know what we're talking
• 2:01:35
  about. My biggest criticism on this conspiracy
• 2:01:39
  is people are saying there were 22 watchers,
• 2:01:41
  and it's like, no, there weren't. They didn't
• 2:01:44
  name 22. They named 20. That's wild. But 22 is
• 2:01:49
  still significant for a different reason. Yeah,
• 2:01:52
  true. That's fun. So it's fun. Yeah, it's fun
• 2:01:56
  to play around with it. And that's what this
• 2:01:58
  whole thing was. Yeah. It was an interesting
• 2:02:00
  thing that I saw and I heard. And I was like,
• 2:02:02
  let's dive into a little bit. Yeah. And see what
• 2:02:04
  it has. Yeah. And I like keeping this light.
• 2:02:07
  Yeah. Because we could talk about it for another
• 2:02:09
  30 minutes. But it's fun to just go ears a little
• 2:02:13
  bit. Yeah. Because it's a corner. That's it.
• 2:02:17
  It's not a room. And like I said in the beginning,
• 2:02:21
  it doesn't deserve a lot of time. True. I think
• 2:02:23
  it's fun to talk about and it's like well let's
• 2:02:25
  if anything it's like let's kind of guide it
• 2:02:27
  a little bit yeah um so that's what I found from
• 2:02:30
  when I looked into it yeah is like someone said
• 2:02:33
  again saying this like someone said 22 well let
• 2:02:36
  me check that out yeah because I can be like
• 2:02:38
  everyone else and just create the same video
• 2:02:40
  right all right and say yeah it says 22 it's
• 2:02:43
  like well for me it's like when I heard that
• 2:02:45
  it's like okay show me the reference yeah what
• 2:02:47
  does it actually say Yeah. Yeah. And it's like,
• 2:02:50
  well, no one's referencing it. Everyone's just
• 2:02:52
  saying it. Yeah. Which means one guy just made
• 2:02:54
  it up. Yeah. So then it drives you to study.
• 2:02:56
  Yeah. That's cool, though. Yeah. Yeah. And that's
• 2:02:59
  what I actually do like about conspiracy theories
• 2:03:02
  is like it's playful. It lets you like play around
• 2:03:06
  with stuff. But then it should drive you to go,
• 2:03:10
  well, what is actually true? Yeah. Like, what
• 2:03:14
  do we have information on? Yeah. And then which
• 2:03:17
  part of it is speculation. And that's the important
• 2:03:20
  thing to look at. Yeah. It's like, yeah, there's
• 2:03:22
  nothing conclusive in this. Right. It's fun to
• 2:03:24
  talk about still. Yeah. But it's like, yeah,
• 2:03:27
  let's try to add some order to the chaos. Yeah,
• 2:03:30
  exactly. Yeah. That's cool. All right, so let
• 2:03:32
  us know if you want us to dig deep on something.
• 2:03:35
  And what are your thoughts? Do the people at
• 2:03:37
  Paramount, do they worship Satan? If you think
• 2:03:42
  yes, just comment yes. Nothing else, just yes.
• 2:03:47
  If you think no, then comment no. I hope that
• 2:03:55
  this video is just full of just yes or no. It'd
• 2:03:59
  be so awesome. People would be like... when they
• 2:04:01
  start the video, they'll be like, why is the
• 2:04:03
  comment section just yes, no, yes, no? That'd
• 2:04:06
  be the most interesting way to come to a video.
• 2:04:08
  Then we should run a poll to see what people
• 2:04:09
  agree with. And just say yes or no. Yeah. I'm
• 2:04:14
  here for that. Incredible. Yeah. So let us know,
• 2:04:17
  yes or no. Three, two, one. Second play, right?
• 2:04:42
  Yeah, it's kind of fun Yeah You ready yeah three
• 2:04:56
  two one and We're back. We've never done this
• 2:05:00
  before It's nice to see you again. I wish I had
• 2:05:04
  a sweater to take off There's something about
• 2:05:08
  looking over your shoulder that Paul's also watching
• 2:05:15
  the show And if you're just listening you should
• 2:05:20
  definitely watch Hey lucky for you Paul figured
• 2:05:24
  out how to get us on Spotify with the video so
• 2:05:28
  if you're just listening take a second and now
• 2:05:33
  look at it and Hey, nice to see you. Hey. It's
• 2:05:37
  good to see you. Welcome. If this is your first
• 2:05:40
  time, if you've listened to all of our episodes,
• 2:05:45
  God bless you. You're a real one. And if you've
• 2:05:49
  never seen us before, having listened to all
• 2:05:53
  the episodes up to this point, sorry to disappoint
• 2:05:57
  you. The shirt makes me look bigger. That's awesome.
• 2:06:07
  It looks great, Paul. Thanks. Oh, we said we
• 2:06:11
  weren't gonna do this. I thought they don't actually
• 2:06:12
  know what I meant when I said that. Yeah. It's
• 2:06:15
  great. We said we weren't gonna do this. I know,
• 2:06:17
  that's why I was laughing. It feels too good
• 2:06:21
  to not do it. I feel like I'm watching you record
• 2:06:26
  like a bedroom. I know. Welcome to the bedroom.
• 2:06:30
  Like a bedroom live show. Welcome to the bedroom.
• 2:06:33
  Okay, how about we can just put this on the end
• 2:06:35
  of the episode? Okay Just put it on the end.
• 2:06:39
  Yeah And then you can clip it back into the us
• 2:06:43
  doing the song so we can have a little play out.
• 2:06:46
  Yeah All right. So let's try this one again for
• 2:06:49
  those of you who stayed all the way to the end
• 2:06:51
  I know that God bless you It will be double blessed.
• 2:06:56
  Yeah a double portion and let your moms know
• 2:06:58
  that you love them Your dad's too. Yeah, let
• 2:07:02
  everybody know. Except for, don't let everybody
• 2:07:04
  know that. I mean it can't hurt. Just be careful
• 2:07:07
  how you say it. Yeah, true. Until next time.
• 2:07:13
  You want a three, two, one of them? Sure. Your
• 2:07:33
  name was Jude Your brother was James You gave
• 2:07:41
  your life In the name of our Lord Who died for
• 2:07:50
  us and our sin But you wrote about He died, but
• 2:08:06
  he rose again. Your name was Jude. Your brother
• 2:08:16
  was James. And you gave your life of our Lord,
• 2:08:28
  who died for us. He died, but he rose again.