Latest / Humanity Working / Let’s Be Brief

Transcript

Let’s Be Brief · Humanity Working

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we are back to discuss something I don't think comes naturally to either of us, Paul.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Brevity.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, to be honest, I used to think that brevity was kind of dumb.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember Vine?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sure, yeah.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Six seconds.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was never really my bag, and even TikTok isn't really.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm the kind of guy who likes a three-hour movie, really.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I write like lots of long form stuff.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, Grammarly told me that last year I wrote over half a million words.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a thing.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've come to realize that a lot of that is because personally I'm not really that good at brevity.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um we decided that we were gonna study it and and uh as a company, and and uh and I've spent quite a bit of time studying it as well.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh yeah, that's interesting.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what'd you find out?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's kind of weird, isn't it?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Half a million?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Good lord.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: You we you can break that into books.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's over it's like 10 business books, which is just crazy, isn't it?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, well, in terms of what we found, it was actually really simple.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um is there's a core element to it that's really simple, I should say, which is if you're not being brief, you're not being heard.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think we spoke about that in the first series of this episode, but people are making a decision to tune you in or out within 30 seconds.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: They've probably made a decision to tune us in or out within the first uh within the first 30 seconds.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: But then even if they do make that decision, right, within 30 seconds or so, um, they're then about a minute or two afterwards, they're tuning, but they're making that decision again.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when I say they are, it's kind of like they're subconscious.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was really intriguing to just to see that, right?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: This idea of like we're taught we're being all beautiful and pontificating about a whole bunch of interesting stuff, but nobody's actually listening to it.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the other thing that we found as well is that there are real benefits to consciously focusing on being brief.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And one of them is that it is forcing yourself to discover and distill down um what the value is in your message.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So wow, okay.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of thoughts on that, but we'll we'll we might not be able to fit them in because they're not brief.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: We'll try.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be in brief.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So so one is uh I wonder how much impact uh meditation practices would have on capability of listening for longer.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first thought that came to my mind.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other is like that that that jumping away that happens, like regardless of of tuning out, whatever.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's really it's really interesting that that would be a factor in how you speak.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And by extension, you have to consciously recognize when you're over explaining, because you kind of should be noticing that it's it might be getting boring.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta move it.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Let's move on.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you're almost listening to yourself as a listener actively while you're talking.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm that's what I mean.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: The listening part of it and the and the meditation piece of it, um, there does seem to be something, uh, something in that.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, if you're part of the heart of meditation is learning to be present um and to observe and understand what is around you.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Part of the skill of active listening, right, is that you are actually listening to people versus tuning them out.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the one thing I will say is that we've spent years now talking about the benefits of meditation, talking uh doing going to business classes about active listening.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And yet all of the research suggests that collectively we are getting much, much, much worse at holding attention and paying attention to things.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I suspect it is, don't know, but what I suspect it is, is that there is a uh there's this sort of like piece of work that you can do to help you do it better, but then there's all these societal, you know, things around us.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Pressures, yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Movie shots used to be like eight times longer than they are.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: My kids hate watching movies that are old.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, why is this so slow?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we're being bombarded with with you don't need to pay attention, and it's really subtle.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think those two things are kind of balancing each other out.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you did some experiments in this.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so let what what did you do for that?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the funny thing was the first one wasn't even supposed to be an experiment.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: We were doing a focus group and we recorded these little five-minute uh videos, and they were uh the focus group participants were supposed to watch these five-minute videos.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: They were actually really good and they were uh and they were designed to be very, very engaging.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the five-minute videos were just to tell the users what they needed to do in the focus group and the rest of the focus group.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: But we started watching the people that were looking at the videos, and what was really interesting is that even though they themselves said that the videos were really good and they really enjoyed them, um, we started seeing that they were tuning out after a few seconds, remembering they were supposed to tune in.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So jumping back in again and then tuning out again after about two minutes.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, two minutes was too long.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And there's actually a lot of research that's been done by various different psychologists.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: We can put a couple of them in the notes, that uh talk about the uh the fact that in the last 15 to 20 years, our ability to pay attention to a video has gone down by about 60 to 75%.
• 5:56
  unknown: Wow.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: What was the second one?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: That one was more intentional.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been asked to do a 10-minute pitch for my company, Billion Mines, and then shortly after that, I was asked to do a five-minute one.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of realized that the five-minute pitch was being much better received, but to be honest, it was also better.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I tried shortening and shortening again.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And our company's kind of complicated.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: We've got three different lines of business and so on.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that I could easily describe our company inside three minutes, which is way, way, way shorter than I would uh be able to do otherwise, just by really focusing on the distillation of the message.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So so why do we why do we do this then?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as in why why do we tend not to be brief?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's much easier to ramble than not, right?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're like me, you kind of enjoy thinking on the fly, right?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's part of it.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're kind of like self-medicating when we ramble.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, oh, I like to think, and one of the ways I like to think is to talk.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm uh I'm certainly very uh uh guilty of that.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you start doing that, you start um, you know, thinking while you're talking.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's a sure way to lengthen out your message.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is that every time we do that, we're increasing the risk that we will not be heard and our message will be diluted.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a uh a fun thing I heard uh the comedian Pete Holmes say uh when he's rambling, he notices that he's rambling.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And his catchphrase during that period is like, I know this is boring, but it's almost over.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can see that.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it it's almost more important than ever to really concentrate on this, to try to be brief as an attempt to get your message across to the current world as it is, yeah?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's the reality.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Attention spans are shorter, much shorter.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so if your goal in speaking is to be heard, then um it's you need to get better at getting to the point.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:01
  unknown: Yeah.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: We get how do they get better at this?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you how do you treat people?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: How do you make people get better at this?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um I break it down into the into a writing part and a speaking part, right?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's much easier to actually get started in writing.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um one thing is I would say is start writing in tools that have a word count.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, GPT cannot count words.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: You try you try, you ask it to count words or you ask it to create something that's 400 words, it's gonna get it wrong.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's part of the way, it's part of how it's it's generative AI, right?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it can't would have to count every time in order to be able to edit on the fly.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then edit it on the fly.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really, really not good at that.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, go back to Word or whatever, you know, Google, uh, Google Docs has has word count on the fly as well.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you be the point is that if you actually start consciously looking at your word count, you'll be amazed at what you can cut.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then there is a practice that we teach people.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh you can do this with a friend.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: You basically both get stopwatches and you have a conversation where each party is allowed to speak for a minute on a topic they know really well.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then you repeat the exercise and you shorten it to 30 seconds, and you can shorten it again to 20 seconds and 15 seconds.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: You do that a few times, you're gonna get really aware of the rambling you're doing.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And does that mean stuff that does that mean anything for companies?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it does.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there is there's something here for how we deliver training, right?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in most cases, when we deliver training, we optimize it for the people delivering it versus the people receiving it.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I would have a yellow flag anytime you're delivering a training module that's more than about four minutes.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would have a red flag once it gets up to about like six or seven or something like that.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's the that's an important thing.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you want people to actually learn, you've got to do something about it.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes rambling's okay, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I mean i i if if it's your way of thinking, I think that's fine.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you just need to be careful.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we did it.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Humanity Working is produced and edited for Billion Minds by Matt Neal.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Our interviewer is Paul Slater.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you like this podcast, please subscribe, like, and recommend us to others.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: It helps us reach more people.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to learn more about how Billion Minds gets companies ready for the future of work by building adaptable, resilient employees, look for them on LinkedIn or visit their website at billionminds.com.