Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / Getting sued; the path to monetisation & killer advice for creating in a taboo space with The Deep’s host Zoe Marshall (Part 1)

Transcript

Getting sued; the path to monetisation & killer advice for creating in a taboo space with The Deep’s host Zoe Marshall (Part 1) · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Zoe Marshall for Female Startup Club.
• 0:12
  Welcome back to the show. It's Dune here, your host and hype girl. Today on the show, we're learning from Zoe Marshall, the founder and host of The Deep Podcast. From terminal parents to sex workers, extremists, and drug addicts, The Deep is a place for thought-provoking conversations that help explore who we are when no one is looking.
• 0:36
  Cracked wide open by her past trauma, grief, and abuse, Zoe holds the space for others to share their fascinating stories and perspectives through these deep conversations.
• 0:47
  I absolutely loved this episode so, so much. We got down to the business model of how to monetize something that's sensitive and sits almost in a taboo area. We also go through Zoe's key learnings in creating the show and her advice if you're creating something that can be seen as taboo or even controversial.
• 1:10
  If you get something out of this episode and you love it just as much as I do, please do share it to your IG stories and tag us at Female Startup Club. I am always so grateful when you do that. And as you know, you can always slide into my Instagram DMs to chat and tell me what you're up to at Doon Roisin, which is D-O-O-N-E-R-O-I-S-I-N.
• 1:35
  But for now, let's get into this episode. This is Zoe for Female Startup Club. Hello, Zoe. Welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast. Oh my gosh, how exciting to be on the other side.
• 1:51
  I know, right? It's so nice. Thank you for having me. It's different. It's a different brain that we have to utilize when you're on the flip side. It makes me nervous. Yes. It's easier being on my side. If you're nervous, how do I? I was like, if you're nervous, how should I feel? No, but it's like, I really feel like when I'm on someone else's podcast, like, the pressure is just so intense versus like being on this side. It's like...
• 2:14
  I can do this with my eyes shut at this point. It's kind of like, in a way, it's like performative. You know what I mean? Like we want to be good. We want to be interesting. We want to give value versus when you're like holding the interview, it's such a different
• 2:29
  skill, isn't it? 100%. And that fear of like, I get the quick second, like self-doubt that's happening as I'm talking. So I'll be like trying to explain something. And then I'm like, fuck, was that good enough? Or was it not good enough? Like, do I need to backtrack? Did I explain that? Yeah. Did I miss a step? Do I even mean that? Do I believe that?
• 2:49
  100%. It's such a woman thing too. I know. It is. The being crippled by perfection thing. Hate that for us. Gosh, I love a good Aussie accent. It makes me miss home so much. Yeah.
• 3:02
  I know. Where are you? I'm based in London at the moment, but I'm actually moving home to Australia in October. We like move out of our flat in next week, I think. And then we go to Europe for the summer. Like forever? Yeah. Like forever home? Yep. Coming back. Wow. Seven years. How long have you been abroad? Oh my God. Don't make me become the interviewer. Yeah.
• 3:24
  I'm so excited to chat with you today and hopefully meet you in person in October. Yes, I'd love that. I'm excited to learn about your podcast journey, what you've been building, how you've been creating. And I want to go back to life before you started the podcast to understand what you were up to, what you were doing, what was getting you interested in starting a podcast that was so deep, for lack of a better word.
• 3:50
  I know, right. I had been in mainstream media for, God, I can't even do the maths, but, you know, 10 or 12 years. And I had done music shows and I had hosted a heap of different radio shows on TV.
• 4:09
  I don't know who's listening to this or what the demographic is, but like KISS, like so super mainstream shows, and then went over to New Zealand and did like cooking and travel shows and more radio and then came home and did more radio. And I just was feeling very, oh.
• 4:32
  frustrated by, you know, firstly, the, um, being typecast as, you know, um, stereotypically commercially pretty girl that doesn't have many opinions and just says the things and follows the autocue or this is the script, or these are our talk points. And like, you can inject a bit of personality, but not too much, um,
• 4:57
  And then met my footballer husband, which just made things so much more basic bitch, you know, like had to fight that stereotype of being a wag so much harder. I had to fight for my jobs harder. I had to like to make space for myself. And I remember doing a show. It was called the 3pm Pickup on Kiss. And it was really targeted towards mums and children and
• 5:22
  which is so funny, not children, but you know, they're in the car generally at that time. And me coming in with this content that I thought was just like hilarious and different and unique. And one of, we kept on getting complaints about me from the callers, you know, I did a segment on foreskin facials, how this was like the new thing.
• 5:45
  in the States that like women were getting stem cells out of force or maybe it was like an Asian country. I can't remember out of stem cells, I have four skins and rubbing them on their faces. And it was like this big thing. And they were just like, you can't talk about that. And you can't talk about this. And I remember having like interesting people pop up and wanting to talk about their mental health or, um,
• 6:07
  something traumatic that had happened. They're like, no, no, no, let's just keep it all really sterile. And so for a long time it was brewing. And then I tried to create a concept called
• 6:23
  the truth, which is so cute now in like retrospect. And it was like a talk show style format with mix of celebrity and normal people pulling out, you know, a conversation out of a hat that's taboo or not discussed and giving opinion on it. And I pitched it to all the main networks and it like, it had legs, I guess, but it was just too controversial for everyone. So that kind of went to bed and then I,
• 6:52
  many years past, like six or seven years past and podcasting started to become a thing. And I'd always had in the back of my mind, like, I want to do something. I want to do something. But then I was working again and I was doing a health show and another radio show and the money was really good and it was stable and consistent. And I just had a baby and
• 7:19
  And then I realized it was more of the same shit, you know, still unfulfilled, not passionate, just not me. And I was like, when are you going to do it? And so I talked about it for so long and I was like, fuck it. I am just going to figure it out. I have no idea. I sat down with my husband and I said, look,
• 7:47
  I don't know how much money this is going to cost or time, but I really need to do this thing because it's been nagging me now for like 15 years. And he was like, okay, do it. So I bought the equipment. I had in mind already the guests. That was all thought out, but I didn't actually know how to do any of the podcast bit anymore.
• 8:09
  the recording, the editing, the producing, the platform, how to host it. Like, and I didn't want to know. Like, I didn't want to learn. I just wanted to make, I'd always been talent. I'd been booked to be talent and I do the thing and then it goes out. So all of a sudden I'm wearing this different hat and I'm just like, oh my God, how do I do all of these things? And then I remember it was just before COVID hit
• 8:37
  And I was like, this is almost perfect timing because I'm literally forced to do this thing now. And wheels were in motion. And the best part of it was all the talent could do it because everyone was stuck at home. You know, like big guests like Raphael Rowe from the Netflix show Inside the World's Toughest Prison. So I love this show, right?
• 8:59
  And I was like, I need him on. He would never say yes, but he was in lockdown. So of course, what was he doing with his life? Nothing. Could talk to me. So it just kind of, it was a huge leap of faith. I didn't know if anyone would listen. I couldn't believe when I launched and someone listened or two people or 50 people. And now we're two years down the track and I'm
• 9:25
  It's this thing. It's this thing that we've reached a point where I believe I will never have to go back to mainstream media again. I have the freedom and the finance to not have to do that now. That's like remarkable to me. That's just like a dream. It is the dream. It's totally the dream. It's the dream. Love that for you.
• 9:49
  I love that for me. Love that for you. Hey, hey, hey, but two years of not getting paid a cent, like I still haven't gotten paid. Next month will be my first paycheck, I think.
• 9:59
  Oh, hell yeah. Heck yeah. Yes. Yes. Let's go back to, you know, you were talking about how in the beginning you didn't know what to do. You didn't know what the process was. You were just kind of having to put on that hat and figure it out. For anyone listening who is thinking about, you know, maybe launching a podcast or just starting something that they don't know how to do, what did you do? What were your steps to getting familiar? What was your process and workflow in those early days?
• 10:27
  Yeah. Well, because I come from audio in radio, I had some contacts that did podcasting and things. So I had people to ask, but no one really has the time to tell you anything, you know? So Rachel Corbett, who is frequently on, so she's now actually the head of Nova Podcasts, but at that time she was with Mamma Mia. I had done some podcasting with Mamma Mia. They had booked me
• 10:57
  So I met Rachel, she had a course called pod school, which is a really easy user-friendly course. If you want to start podcasting, I'd start there. But I called her, I was like, who, what do I do? Who do I? And she's like, I've done this. This is my course. So I kind of went to that as a resource. And then I was like, who can, cause I hate editing. Once I record something, I never listened to it again. So I was like, who can do this for me?
• 11:25
  I was willing to put some money behind it. And so I actually went on, what's that Facebook group, Like-Minded Bitches Drinking Wine? Love that group. Shout out to Jen. And Jane.
• 11:38
  Yeah, I put up an ad or something that was like looking for an audio producer or something like that. It was really kind of cryptic. There wasn't a lot of information there. And the first girl I think I found is still the girl that I have to this day. It was like I also kind of believe in the woo-woo of it all, that once you put yourself out there, the universe will meet you.
• 12:04
  And Jo has been with me from the first day. She's got like 10 zillion clients now because of the referrals, because people are like, who did you use? Because no one knows, right? So she's doing really well for herself as well.
• 12:19
  but she's just incredibly skilled. I also probably made, well, we all do, made a lot of mistakes and paid for things I didn't need to. Like I got a real audio producer, like a composer. He was just too skilled for what I needed and so expensive. So he was only around like first season.
• 12:40
  Wait, what is an audio composer? What is that and how much does it cost? Well, he's a composer, so he makes music. Okay. So his skill is like he creates sound and music. But I said to him, hey, can you like edit? And he's like, yeah, I can edit. But it was like way under his skill set. So I was paying like, God.
• 13:04
  oh, I want to say $1,000 an episode, not just for him, but for the team and he was like a lot, most of it. And I was like, what the fuck? Yeah. That's fucking crazy. And how many episodes did you do a season?
• 13:19
  10. Yeah, that's a lot. It was definitely not starting rates, you know, like I definitely made a mistake there. It wasn't starting scrappy. Um, it was like, but also like, what are you doing idiot? You do not need him, but you don't know what you don't know, you know? So I also got, um,
• 13:35
  someone in to develop the brand and the marketing because I wanted to go in and I wanted it to be, I knew that my peers were watching and I knew that it would be highly judged. So I wanted to come in really clear with who I am, what I am, what I'm, what service I am giving the world. What is the, you know, what is this?
• 14:00
  And, um, she fleshed all of that out with me. Um, that was expensive too, but that we needed. And then there was all the other things like actual branding exercises. And I used a friend of a friend and I thought, Oh, maybe made straight. No, that's okay though. Um, and we just had really strong logos and across the board branding and fonts and all of that jazz that you kind of need when you've got like a,
• 14:29
  a brand that you want to develop over time. So I wanted all of those things to be really strong. And then I went out to PR. And because I'd had so much experience in this world, I had a lot of contacts and I just drew on all of them. And I was like, I'm launching this thing and I'll give you the clickbait and I'll give you the headlines. I know what you want. Yes, you can talk about my husband if you want for a sentence. And like, I just knew how to sell it.
• 14:57
  So we went out and yeah, what happened was Apple, I think we were week six. And I want to say upfront, a lot of amazing things happened in the first season, but a lot of scary things happened. So I got sued.
• 15:15
  in the first season. For what? And that was a big come to Jesus. Well, it was a threat. It was a threat to be sued. They didn't follow through, but I was served papers, an episode went out, and the guest was talking about a person, even though they were anonymous, and...
• 15:39
  this person who was a perpetrator believed that they were recognisable and had there were damages against them because of this episode. Whoa. And they proceeded to, yeah, make legal action. What are you doing that? Do you have to take the episode down or? Oh, my God. So, yeah.
• 16:07
  This is the weird thing about all of this, right? Like I didn't really have a legal, I had like release forms and things done up by a lawyer, but I didn't, I wasn't prepared for someone to do this to me, which is probably naive because of the content I create and has completely restructured the brand. But when this happened, because it was a traumatic, and it was linked to some of my own past trauma, I was so triggered and so in flight mode that I couldn't,
• 16:37
  regulate or deal with this very well. So it was quite miraculous. This heavenly angel from above, who's a lawyer was like, I will help you. I've got you. Let me sort this out and just dealt with it. And I was like, I am so scared. Like, I don't know what to do. I think that they're going to come for me and my family and all of these things. They're like, you are in a trauma response right now. I just want to really calm you down. I've got things covered.
• 17:05
  These are the things we're going to do and we did have to take it down. But I did give that person an opportunity to share their side. And I also had to tell the guest in which this all unraveled that she was liable for the costs if we did go to court. And I never want that. Yeah, it's really tricky because that's the release form that they have to cover all of that if someone...
• 17:32
  comes after us because of what they've said. That's so wild. This is totally one of those like what you don't know, you don't know. I just, I would never have even thought that's something that you have to kind of consider. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So it changed. We took it down. That's what they wanted. And it was really disappointing and difficult for that guest to,
• 18:02
  you know, to have their truth removed and to be disempowered. It was just an awful situation for everyone. But parallel at this time, it was week six into the series one, Apple launched us into the banner ad. So you know what that is when you open the app. You're on the main page on the front banner. Everyone can see you.
• 18:30
  It was just the biggest deal. We shot the number one podcast in Australia. It just, like, everything changed. What kind of traffic do you get in that moment, like on day one? Oh, huge, huge, huge, huge, huge. Back then, I want to say maybe 10,000 or something. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 18:53
  I could be very wrong. I'm terrible with numbers, but it was big. I went from like 5,000 to maybe 15,000 listens. Got it. On an ep. And they stayed. So as soon as they found me, they stayed, which was great. There wasn't a lot of churn. And then Mira, I'll never forget her. She was Canadian-based.
• 19:14
  and headed up this kind of part of Apple. But you know, like in Apple, everyone's like untouchable. They're all just like words on a screen. You don't know anyone. It feels very like you can't connect. But she just was like, you are everything we believe in and we just champion you and we're going to do this and that and this and that. And I was just like, you don't know for little old me.
• 19:38
  what this means. So it changed everything. It changed everything. But at the same time as being sued, we had a really, another dangerous episode coming out that week. So I got sued, say on the, not sued, that's not even the right word. The papers were served like on a Thursday and we had a hardcore episode about this troll on the Tuesday dropping. And what happened was there had been some legal stuff with this woman
• 20:08
  that my lawyer was like, take it down. You can't do it because this is like, we're already here. We need to now be really clear about what we're putting out. We just can't have these like, I'm calling it suit every week. And so we're scrambling to get the next episode live. That wasn't that episode. So the one that went up
• 20:28
  was, so it's supposed to be week six, the troll, and then week seven, the troll hunter. And it would make sense because we'd just had the troll on and we'd spoken to the troll and then we'd speak to the troll hunter who had gone down this really dark path of like these insidious trolls that do these horrible things to people.
• 20:47
  Anyway, we had to remove the troll and just have the troll hunter out. And that was the week we went to number one. It was the episode I didn't want anyone to really hear because it wasn't my strong episode. So it was like all of these things, all my strategy out the window, all of this like catch up, all these like you can't plan for moments. And what I realized in that was like, we need to be on top of everything, not just legally, but all the content.
• 21:17
  you can't depend on something just happening. We need to have like banked up. So, so many hard lessons in the first season, like, holy moly, like I just felt like, can I even do this? You know, like I'm investing all my own money. Classic life of an entrepreneur. Yeah. The rollercoaster of something really amazing happening, smack bang next to something really shit.
• 21:45
  Yeah, and it was like such a real moment of like if you're going to do this, this isn't a hobby, like this is a career and you need to be all in, like buckle up, bitch, like this is wild, especially with the topics you're talking about. Like I had recorded so much content and then I was going through the archives and I was like I'm in serious danger here now because I'm
• 22:14
  I had recorded two episodes with a family dynamic that was incredibly dangerous and this person was currently in jail for this crime against this family and they had later told me that they didn't want to be anonymous so I couldn't protect their identity or mine. But this person in jail had access to...
• 22:43
  really dangerous weapons, you know, and was in the Air Force and could, you know, like had real access to things and was quite senior and very angry and disturbed and had made quite a few threats to them. And we had to turn around and say,
• 23:07
  would you be anonymous? And they said, no, he's not keeping us quiet anymore. And I had to respect them and be like, absolutely. This is your story and your truth and you sing it from the rooftops, but I'm actually scared for my family. Like I don't, I'm scared that if he hears this and I've
• 23:27
  that we could be in danger. So it just changed everything. You know, that moment changed everything, the way that I record. Like if there's current things in court, I don't touch them now, which is really sad because a lot of victims need that. But I just, you know, the wellbeing of the family, you know, overcomes everything. Yeah. Yeah.
• 23:52
  How do you protect your mental health from these conversations, which are so, you know, they can be so triggering. There's so much depth to them and there's so much, you know, serious things at play. It's so interesting. So I didn't have a very good way of doing that at the start and I would carry that and I would be very moved and very upset. And...
• 24:18
  didn't know how to rid myself of it. And then I started doing some woo-woo shit. Like, and I'm not into like angels and stuff. That's never been my vibe, but I don't know why it was like I was meditating and the signal of like the arch angel, Michael, Uriel, Gabrielle and Raphael. So I don't even know who they are, what that means. But I was like, I call them in now when it's a heavy episode to hold the space.
• 24:48
  And I kind of energetically protect myself. And then I've got crystals and I've got a clearing spray. So I really want what I, I know this also sounds weird and woo-woo, but like when I start a record, I open myself up to just be the vessel. Like I'm not really, it's not an agenda. It's not me. It's like whatever has to come through this as the message will come through.
• 25:17
  And so the conversation happens and then when it kind of closes, I kind of shut it off energetically as well and then get on with my life. You know, I've got two kids and two other businesses, so it's kind of like you've got to keep it going. That's powerful. There's some episodes that, like, haunt me regardless of the energetic stuff, you know. Like I just spoke to this beautiful, beautiful boy, man on Monday
• 25:48
  raped at eight by a grown man. And, you know, it was a very explicit episode and, you know, I'm thinking about him and I'm thinking about children in that situation currently. And, you know, like it's in, it's in you. I mean, it's in me anyway. I think of those things anyway, all the time. So it's just, I guess, a,
• 26:11
  another layer of understanding and empathy, you know? Yeah. Gosh. Wow. That is intense and a lot. Yeah. It's intense. I'm going to switch to a totally different topic and we're going to move away from that for the moment.
• 26:32
  Let's talk about more of the kind of business model to what you're building and kind of how you were thinking about it in the beginning versus how it actually is now and how you were thinking about like monetization and whether this was going to be, you know, in the beginning, was it just an outlet or were you like, no, this is a business from the get go and how you've kind of built your business model? What does that look like?
• 26:56
  I think it always had an element of being multimedia. So I've always seen it being a TV show and I know exactly what it is. We've pitched it actually to production companies here in Australia. I'm managed by RGM. So they went to market with it and it was kind of in pre-production stages with somebody who,
• 27:22
  And then it fell through, which I had no attachment to because I'm so incredibly overwhelmed at the moment. So just for me, it didn't feel like the right time. I just didn't have the time to do that right now. But that is definitely on the horizon. I see that maybe though in like five or 10 years when the kids are in school and I can, I feel okay going and doing that because it's going to be pretty hardcore. It's going to be so cool.
• 27:50
  the concept's so cool. It's very Louis Theroux, you know? Love that. He's like, my God. I saw him talk the other day. I was being like. Like in person. Yeah. And I was being like, please sing the song. Please sing the song. But he only mentioned it. I was like, damn it. I know. And I like hate that song. I'm like, you poor thing because I know that episode. And I was like, holy shit, he's just, it's just not what you need. He's become such a Gen Z meme.
• 28:19
  He is. And I just love him, but not for that. He's so funny. He's so funny. Every sentence I was cackling. I know. He just opens his mouth and he's funny. He's just so curiously brilliant and I just love him. But we digress. So there is that element that I always knew would happen. And then I was, like, always thinking, why the fuck are podcast free? Like, it's so fucked. Yeah.
• 28:49
  And especially for someone like me that monetizing can be really tricky because, you know, we're talking about, I don't know, a functioning heroin addict or a girl that was gang raped at 14. Like, you know, Steggles or something isn't going to want to put an ad in there. That became tricky. And also the model of sponsoring podcasts at the moment, especially in Australia, is still as a marketing exercise today.
• 29:19
  not quite the thing. It's not done as much as it should be. They don't get the value as much yet. You know, they're still on social media because half of my bread and butter is in social media and doing ads that way through Zoe Marshall stuff. So I get, I see them, I see them going, we want this. We want to see the engagement. We want to see the ROI. Whereas in podcasting, we don't have the click throughs and things like that, but we have the ears. And if I'm going,
• 29:49
  80,000 people are going to hear your ad all the way through because I'm going to write it in a authentic way where I'm endorsing it in something. And it is always something I believe in. Why would you not do that? They don't even know the ad happened. We're back into the content before they've even like, and it's in there. And it was really easy if I could sell it to the client, but I, my time, I didn't have the time to do the pitch and to do it all. So it was tricky to sell. Yeah.
• 30:17
  And I was like, subs, you know, Europe does subs well. America does subs well. Why have we not done subs? And it was ticking away in the back of my mind. I was like, how the hell do I even do that? And I was at a co-work space. I kind of like done a lot of outreach to my Instagram, like who does this? And they'd sent through different businesses and I was taking a couple of meetings and then I'm.
• 30:44
  So this co-work space and spoke to the owner and she was like, I've got the girl for you. And I was like, well, you better hurry because I'm about to employ these other people like this afternoon. And we got on a call and it was Tash from Word of Mouth Media who's a friend of yours. Love Tash. She's so great. We just like, it was super weird. Like we just connected and we had mutual friends and,
• 31:10
  but had never met and she knew the show and just understood the language and where I was playing in the ballpark I was playing in and had done a lot of this, but was also female and owned her own business and super passionate, but hadn't done exactly what I was doing. So I think she found it interesting to do this with me. And so I was like, I can't
• 31:40
  And we started working together and she's very businessy. Like I didn't even know what a KPI is or whatever. And she had all of these words and, you know, we're going to circle back and all of these terms I've never heard. And, um, not, not in my remit and, you know, I was like, what are these things anyway? And, um, we ended up having kind of
• 32:07
  these opportunities come in at like, I'm just this divine timing in this universal shit is just so true. It was like moments of like Apple. Remember I told you about Mira at the start, she left and then I was brokenhearted. She's like, I'm going to pass you on to Jonathan. I was about to give birth to my second baby when this transition happened. I was like,
• 32:34
  Got to build a relationship with Jonathan. Johnny. Who is Jonathan? Lost him in my emails. I was like, where's Jonathan's email? Can't find it. I had my baby. I'm in the midst of it all. It's like, we really got to get onto this. And then we were just about to launch subs on Patreon. Two days before, this girl slides into my inbox. Hey, I'm Kate. I love the podcast. Can we have a conversation about subs?
• 33:04
  from Apple. And I was like, okay. Cause I just got Jonathan to CC me into an email with you. And I've just emailed you. And she's like, holy shit. Cause it was maybe two hours in between these two emails. She's like, oh my God, I've just realized that it was like a really weird, it was super weird. And I was like, we got to talk because I'm launching in two days, get on the phone. Well on the zoom. And she's just like,
• 33:35
  launch exclusively with us. And Tash was like, this has to look good, you know, because why would we? You know, we're giving you a percentage because I think Apple subs, I don't know, 20%, 30%. We'd got this really strong PR plan, really strong strategy. Like why, why would we? And I won't be able to tell you all the ins and outs because she'll kill me.
• 34:03
  because it's confidential, but she gave us an opportunity to amplify again and it was something, it was a risk. It was definitely a calculated risk. We did not know if it would be worth it, especially because it's exclusive to Apple. We're cutting out a chunk of our audience that Android uses because...
• 34:25
  But it was, it was incredible. And it was incredible because it wasn't just like me doing something brand new. Tash was doing something brand new and Kate was doing something brand new. It was like, we were all so invested in this succeeding. And it was like, I really needed strong women that believed in this and believed in me because I didn't know if one person would pay. I was like, okay.
• 34:54
  And that was the whole thing. Like I've given two years of this, my labor, my love, my time, my energy, my trauma, my time away from my kids, all of it. And I hope that the audience trusts me enough to know that I would give them something worth paying for. And then that launched.
• 35:23
  And we had a goal for, I think the month and we hit it in three days. Wow. And then we had our annual goal and we hit that in, we just, it's been six weeks. That's amazing. Congrats. Which means I can pay myself when I told you I can pay my, the money has not hit the bank. It's coming. But I should be able to pay myself. I should be able to pay myself. Yeah. And, and, you know, this is.
• 35:51
  More than anything, it's not, I know this sounds so wanky because obviously we've got to pay the bills. It's not about the financial dollars in the account. It's the value that someone thinks I'm worth it, you know, or they think the podcast is worth it. So I had this incredible DM from this woman that was like, Hey, times are really tough.
• 36:18
  And my husband sat down with me, we're in rural Queensland. And he said to me, we've got to make some cuts to the budget, you know? And she was like, I get it. I get it. You know, these are all the things that we can do and the deep, I'm going to give up the deepest subscription. And he was like, absolutely not. He goes, it's your one thing. You're a mum to three babies. You're at home all day.
• 36:47
  You have nothing for yourself. This is your thing. The way that it lights you up, the conversations that we have, the excitement you get, the meaning it brings you. He goes, we can afford $1.25 a week for you to get this thing. And I was just like...
• 37:06
  Wow. Oh, my God. Not only does she see it, but he sees the value for her. I was like, I was in tears. I was like, this is the most, because, you know, shit is real and it is tough out there. And we're getting subscription fatigue. And for them to kind of marry them all up and go, you know what, no, for $1 or $4 a month I'm going to get money
• 37:36
  I'm going to feel and I'm going to get connected and I'm going to learn and I'm going to challenge myself. Like all of those things, which is the goal, they go, I value that. That was like for me, oh, that's it, you know, that's it. Yeah. That's amazing. For the actual content that you put on there, so you have the subscription, it's a monthly subscription, so $4 something a month you pay. $4.99 a month. $4.99 a month.
• 38:05
  What do those people get? Like what's the offer? Get? So this is the thing, right, because obviously subs is out there. People are charging that. That's like a kind of normal monthly cost. And I was like, but we need to exceed that. So we have our free stuff every week, right? But on top of that, what is everyone doing? So they're doing ad-free. Cool. That's not so exciting. They're doing...
• 38:32
  maybe uncut episodes and early release. That's it. And I was like, would I pay five bucks for that? No, I'll just skip the ad or I'll just, do you know what I mean? So I was like, so what is going to make it? I mean, the uncut thing I kind of like, that's probably the biggest drawcard, but I was like, I want to hear things that no one else can hear. I want to hear exclusive content,
• 39:02
  from guests, but I want to hear them from, because a lot of people were obsessed with my trauma. So in the intro, it says a lot of traumatic things happened to me in my early twenties, and then I became fascinated. So they hear this every week and they're like, so what happened to you? And I never made it about me. And so I was like, okay, you guys want to know some things.
• 39:32
  is because I know you get me. So I've built up enough trust with you in two years. You know I can hold the space for others. Now you can hold the space for me.
• 39:43
  So my experience with domestic violence was the one we launched with on the deeper, because then I set the tone of where we're going with this. This is, this is a secret society. This is a community now. And I'm telling things to you that I've never told some of my best friends, that I've never told some of my family or my husband, this is our thing. And so I,
• 40:11
  It's not me often, but when it is, it's like me and my husband and our therapist, who we see, why we see them, me and seeing a trauma clearer and some of the woo-woo shit that I've done to heal trauma. Because we've got so much trauma topic covered, a lot of people want to know access to how we deal with trauma or how I've dealt with it. So I give them access to these people.
• 40:41
  too exclusives or too explicit to be on the normal free to air. So for example, the gigolo who was on the free to air, which was just about who he is and his clientele and his job. We then went into how do you lick pussy the best way? How do you fuck the best way?
• 41:04
  tell me all of your tricks so that men and women can learn from a gigolo. That is cool. That's a great content like offering to have as part of the secret society. Yeah, it's very different. So it makes sense. Yeah. It makes sense in the umbrella, but it is way more different.
• 41:25
  I guess, explicit and it's way more at times challenging for you to listen to or for you to come to terms with. And then there's elements of it that is, you know, me confessing things. You know, there's things about me that I've never shared to mainstream media, which I'm no fool. They can pay the full bucks and get it and put it on the Daily Mail for sure, but I'm willing to do that. That's, you know, I've thought that through.
• 41:52
  But I'm also just willing to share parts of myself now that if that's of interest to the listener that they can access.
• 42:00
  Wow, that is so interesting. It's interesting to me is like you're able to, A, create this thing that's really intense and just so, I don't even have the terminology because I don't know how to say how intense it is and how intense it sounds, but this kind of crazy deep thing but also have it as a business but not an icky way, like in a really authentic. Well, this is the most important thing, right? Right.
• 42:28
  We have just signed with ACAST to monetize us because I just didn't have the time or the bandwidth to do that. And they're amazing. And Jordan has been on me for two years. Love Jordan. I just spoke to her recently. Yeah. So it was nice to go full circle with her and give her, you know, I said it's like we've been dating a really long time and now I've just put out. So they are really excited and really passionate.
• 42:58
  to do that, to work hard for this because we cannot, there are episodes that no ad can be in ever. You know, there's an episode with a widow whose husband died in front of her on the bathroom floor, mouthful of vomit while she was giving CPR. There is no place in that for an ad, none. So there's also the way you do ads, you know, is so,
• 43:28
  specific. I hope that the landscape of podcasting respects that enough now that we can do that. And they go, bitch needs to make a dollar so we can keep listening. Uh, but if I'm going to pay the sub, I don't have to get any ads at all. And I get all this extra stuff. My thing just as a content creator, whether that's on Instagram with clients or on podcasting is to always exceed expectation, you know, to over deliver.
• 43:56
  So I feel like with the deeper, everyone feels it's worth the money and that no one has said it hasn't been. Everyone's just like, holy shit, girl, give it to me, you know. 100%.
• 44:13
  Yeah. What are your kind of like, when you look back, your key kind of learnings that you can share as advice for people out there who might have stories to tell or want to start a podcast or want to jump into something that maybe they had been thinking, oh, this is, you know, too out there.
• 44:31
  I think the first thing that's really important, and I've spoken to a couple of other podcasters and we saw this influx of podcasting through COVID, right? Like people podcasting that really don't need to have a voice or a platform at all. And I don't mean that disrespectfully, but I think it's really important to go, what is it that I want to say or want to share? You know, do I need to take up space in this area? Because it is saturated, super duper saturated. Yeah.
• 45:01
  first thing, because you're wasting your time. Like if you're just doing it and you're not really passionate and you're not all in, don't just don't do it. Like go for lunch. It's so much more fun, you know, but if you feel like there is something that is too much or too controversial or whatever, I would say podcasting or YouTubing would be the best outlet for you.
• 45:28
  to have full creative control. I would steer you away from signing and like ACAS will kill me for saying this, but don't sign with any production houses. Don't give away your IP or your content ever, ever, ever. It doesn't matter if you're making no money for however long. Don't.
• 45:47
  succumb to the dollar because you will lose all control. You just will. And I've had every single production house try and buy us, you know, and that's been great, like, but no. Mm-hmm.
• 46:07
  Never, never, ever. What does that look like if someone is coming to you to be like? Well, they're just, they pitch to you and they say, well, you know, are you open to having a conversation about what this would look like being a part? They call it a partnership, but it's not. They own half once you sign that contract, you know, if you're not careful. So, and once that happens, they then have, um,
• 46:34
  big ideas on how the content changes and shifts and... Becomes more commercial. Yeah, totally. It's all about the dollars and you don't ever want to be a slave to the dollar because then the content's shit.
• 46:51
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 47:15
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 47:38
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.
• 47:55
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 48:20
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 48:42
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show, and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.