Latest / Kinesis Money / Is Trump Signalling a Gold Revaluation? Ft. Bill Holter - LFTV Ep 288

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Is Trump Signalling a Gold Revaluation? Ft. Bill Holter - LFTV Ep 288 · Kinesis Money

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Capital looking to exit the system and get out from in front of the train that's coming.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: And the only exit is silver and gold.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: We've got this ticket time on the talking gold.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Life of the Vault.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Life of the Vault, brought to you by Kinesis Money.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: And as you can see, I am still in Costa Rica.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm in the jungle here.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: So pura vida to all our Costa Rican friends.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, this is the show that goes beyond the headlines to uncover the truth about the gold and silver markets with world-renowned whistleblower and industry expert Andrew Maguire.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: And this week, he's joined in the vault by a very special and very requested guest.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Yes, we're talking about Bill Holter, is in the vault, and we're talking gold, we're talking silver.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna want to miss a word of this conversation.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: So let's head over to the UK and join Andrew Maguire and our featured guest, Bill Holter.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: Over to you, Andrew.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Hey, Bill, Mr.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: Gold, thank you for coming back.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: It's a privilege, it's always a privilege to have you back for a chat.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: I see you so many places, American Watchdog and all these and so many other places.
1:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, and obviously you're well followed.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: We've had so many requests for you.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and um obviously, you know, because you're a straight shooter, you've always been that way.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: Everyone knows what they're getting, and uh obviously it's insightful, and we want to get your opinion on a pile of stuff.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: And it's gonna I I mean, I want to talk about AI in a minute, but but can we just start with the elephant in the room to me with Bessence push uh for lower long-end yields?
1:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, good God, I mean, this has intensified obviously the weak dollar debasement trade, it's sharply lifted gold.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, but but here's what I I just I sometimes puzzle.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: I really want your opinion on this.
2:07
SPEAKER_02: Look, this this guy comes from a trading background.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, is this some kind of feeble attempt at 5D chess?
2:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean, targeting the shorts and for a short-term gain ahead of the midterms, or is he setting up a gold revaluation trigger?
2:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm puzzled.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: First off, thank you for having me, Andrew.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to be here.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm I'm not 100% sure on this, but it looks to me like I I mean Besson, as you said, is a trader.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: He understands that what he's doing is extremely short term in nature.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: And in this case, it was 24 hours.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it worked for 24 hours and then it stopped working.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: It looks like, uh, for a lack of better term, it looks like uh a shell game of monetization.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: The bottom line is the US can't operate without borrowing an additional, call it two trillion per year or more.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh the debt service is now 1.5 trillion, and it looks to me like this may be a rug pull.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: They may be pulling the rug.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, interesting, last night uh Donald Trump posted on his uh Truth Social a Jim Rickards interview, and Rickards had talked about 10,000 or even 20,000 gold by the end of the year.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Now, why would Trump post that?
3:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's a he is a gold guy, he's got gold in his family background.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: His his grandfather, I believe, or great grandfather, was a miner.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: So he understands gold.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: And when I posted that to my website, I asked the question: is he purposely trying to destroy the U.S.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Treasury?
4:17
SPEAKER_00: Is he trying to along with destroy the treasury, that would destroy the Federal Reserve?
4:25
SPEAKER_00: Because think about this.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: If gold were$10,000 tomorrow, it would mean that the dollar lost 50% or a little more in purchasing power.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: If it went to$25,000, the dollars only got purchasing power of 25 cents on today's dollar, which is already debased.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: So if he's reposting the Jim Rickards interview, I don't see anything other than that's that leads to the destruction of the Treasury as we know it.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: That's so interesting because I saw that on your website.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: I hadn't seen that.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: I saw that uh you re you reposted um Trump's repost of um of records.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: And I mean it, I I mean it to me, that's what I think that's why I kind of led into the first question.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: I was thinking, this is is this five D chess?
5:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, is this what is going on here?
5:27
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, is it is it um essentially if he he shot across he shot a shot across Descent's bow in a sense, but but it must is no coincidences, and you kind of wonder, there is there's only one way out.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: Um for you can't seize gold, you can't uh default on gold.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think the days are gone when they could probably do a 1930s uh run around knocking on the doors and grabbing everyone's gold, because there's a global market.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: So is it are they actually is it they are they looking at a revaluation?
6:11
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the case.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the only thing that they can do with gold.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: What did they do?
6:17
SPEAKER_00: They spent 50 years trying to suppress the price of gold and suppress the price of silver.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Um that worked up until call it the year 2000, 2001, when gold bottomed.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but yeah, I mean you're talking about 252 gold back in the year 2000.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: So you're looking at at gold has already, and if you round it up from 4600, 4700, round it to 5,000, that means gold has already moved, but gold doesn't move, and we'll get to that in a minute.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Gold's already moved a 20-bagger.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: What that means is the dollar since the year 2000 has lost 95% of its purchasing power versus gold.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: So the suppression did not work, and I think the the only the only thing they can do with gold is reprice it higher.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Now, the question is do we really have all the gold that we've said we had since 1956, but no audit.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: So, do we have the gold?
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Do we still own that gold?
7:34
SPEAKER_00: Has it been leased out?
7:35
SPEAKER_00: Who's the true owner?
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh, all kinds of questions, very few answers.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: But that may be what they're gonna try to do is revalue gold to a an extremely high number.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm not gonna say this year, but I think$20,000 is a laughably low number.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna have to reflate the whole system on the back of gold.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: Interesting because because if they we've looked at so many scenarios over the years, you have, I have, people, other people have.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: How do you do how do you do a revaluation?
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, revaluation is an ongoing process.
8:12
SPEAKER_02: So so we we understand it's a process, but there comes a point now.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: If that is the case, and and we all know that there is problems, um, otherwise, why would Germany have taken initially seven years to get 300 tons back?
8:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there were so many flags and uh that that suggested there was some level of rehypothecation.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: And they didn't even get their gold back, they got different gold with different uh serial numbers on them.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, melt gold in some instances.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: And it's ludicrous or brand new.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: In other words, it was it had been physically moved.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I mean, obviously, rehypothecation can also be, as you say, uh, it can be a financial transaction, right?
8:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, and the gold might be sitting there with multiple ownerships claims.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: So, what's the point of going in and looking at it if it's owned by several people at once?
9:06
SPEAKER_02: But I I think what what's interesting about this is that um if they um if they were to revalue, do a revaluation event, it's always done, it would be done over a weekend, probably.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: They would market to market on a Friday.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: I know that you're on side with this market on to market on a Friday.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: You got everyone then settled out squared on the paper side.
9:29
unknown: Right.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: If you then revalue it to 10,000, 20,000, you just repaid all of those re-hypothecated leases, you've repaid them all.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and and you've just washed and rinsed the whole thing back to a square.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: I and I think to me, it's likely.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it allows sovereign treasuries all over the world that own gold to uh, if you want to call it, fill up the black holes of debt that they've created on their own.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, gold is the is the only way.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't say the only way, another way to to uh devalue the debt is to devalue the currency and make the payment with monkey money.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: But revaluing gold higher does that, that devalues fiat currency.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: So it it basically uh revaluing sovereign treasury gold or revaluing gold and the sovereign treasuries can then mark that versus the debt outstanding, and in some cases their debt may be completely covered, in other cases, like the US, that's not possible.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, even if you at this point, uh even if you marked gold up to where it is now,$46,000,$4,700, you're not even looking at a trillion dollars worth of gold on the 262 million ounces.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: So that's nothing compared to 40 trillion.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: If you were to mark gold up uh 20 fold to 100,000, you know, now you're talking about uh you're you're talking about covering the 40 trillion, but you've got to go to stupid numbers.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: It's massive, and and you know, there's no smoke without fire.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: Then then I noticed, and I always pop in on your website there, um, Bill, and look at some of the your what you think is interesting.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, and um you put something there which kind of fits into all of this, where Trump suggested he can use the military on bond markets, and he said something like, if we have to, we we will, or something like that.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: Um that's interesting.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess interesting is a is a term you could use.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: I think it's nonsensical.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, I don't think it makes sense.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: When you're talking about military and debt that you owe, what are you gonna do?
12:13
SPEAKER_00: Go blow up the people who own your debt?
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Makes no sense.
12:17
SPEAKER_02: Makes no sense at all.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: But you know what?
12:21
SPEAKER_02: What uh what it it at least it gives the brain something to feed on because then then you know what to discount, you know what not to discount, because there's so much stuff out there.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: But I think that Rickards thing was um very, very, very um, the fact that he posted that is right up there, um, and it is signaling something that's not quite that's he's not dumb.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: The guy's not dumb, and um, so there's a reason for everything.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: But you know what?
12:51
SPEAKER_02: I was going back, um, Bill, to about I think it was 2022, one of our interviews, and and you you you kind of blew my mind at the time by saying, you know what?
13:03
SPEAKER_02: Um silver is gonna be likely the fuse that triggers a J daisy Chine collapse in the banking system.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: And then you and I were just talking about AI.
13:14
SPEAKER_02: Can you connect all those dots for us?
13:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, I mentioned to you one of the things I wanted to talk to you about today was the question where does the money come from?
13:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: On one hand, you've got you know, not just US Treasury debt.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got European countries, you've got Japan with outrageous amounts of debt, no matter how you look at it, on whatever uh metric you look at it, the debt is outrageous.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Where is the money gonna come from to service it and to pay it down?
13:50
SPEAKER_00: That's question number one.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: Question number two is where is the money gonna come from to build out AI?
13:59
SPEAKER_00: And that leads to the next question.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's assume that they're somehow they print the money, whatever.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: They revalue gold, whatever.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: How do they build out AI without silver?
14:14
SPEAKER_00: And we know that silver has got concentrated shorts in the paper markets, so those are gonna have to be addressed, and they'll probably be addressed as you said on a Friday afternoon.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: They'll close them out, say cash settlement, and then welcome to the Wild West on Monday morning, because prices are going to move to true clearing levels, put it that way.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: But AI cannot exist without massive amounts of silver, and massive amounts of silver do not exist.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: And also that where's the funding coming from for this, uh, Bill?
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, a lot of that, uh, and actually, there's a pretty good article on uh Zero Edge today uh regarding where is the money gonna come from, and and that got me to thinking where you know, where is the money gonna come from?
15:07
SPEAKER_00: Because you're talking about just off-balance sheet debt is now$3.1 trillion.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Three months ago, that number was$1.8 trillion.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: So there's already been a borrowing over the last 90 days of what$1.3 trillion.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: Is this private banking?
15:27
SPEAKER_02: What I mean, what is it that's behind who is funding?
15:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know that Cisco, for example, has become the bank for AI.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: It's become so it's almost like gone from a stock to a um to to to a central bank in a in a sense.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: Nvidia, sorry, Nvidia.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're there's so if you look at the structure of the financial deals, everybody enslaved some gigantic circle jerk, is what it is.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it looks almost exactly like the derivatives market itself, where everybody is trading with owes and is owed by everyone else.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: And that's why in the derivatives market, if you get uh like we saw back in what 2008, uh, if you get a big institution that goes down, it can take the entire system with it.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: And we were three hours away from that in 2008.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: The central banks at the time stepped up, sacrificed their more their balance sheets to provide liquidity.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: This time around, the central banks are insolvent upside down themselves.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Who's the white knight gonna be?
16:47
SPEAKER_00: Where who's gonna step in and lend to the central banks and lend to sovereign treasuries?
16:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, forget about the private debt.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Just on a on a sovereign level, then you go to the next level, and we're you we're talking about trillions of on in off balance sheet debt.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's interesting that debt is beginning to melt lower and yields higher.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: The credit markets, credit people are always smarter than equity people.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've seen that in your lifetime.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: The the accountants, the the bean counters are smarter than the cowboys throwing darts.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: And and credit is starting to weaken it.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: Credit is starting to crack.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: And what I'm going to tell you is I think the the AI uh circle jerk is basically the same structure as the derivatives market.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: Where if one entity goes, they all go.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: So uh Lehman 2.0.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: Lehman 200.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: 200, yeah.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean, again, rehypothecation, isn't it?
18:05
SPEAKER_02: So we're talking about rehypothecation of debt.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and and what is that?
18:10
SPEAKER_02: A two quadrillion dollar hole?
18:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean, what if that gets ignited, Bill?
18:15
SPEAKER_02: What the heck?
18:16
SPEAKER_02: Where's the bar?
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Andrew, you just used the word rehypothecation.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Interesting, I guess it was what, three or four weeks ago, China announced no more re-hypothecation of gold in this country.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it obviously we we've all been studying the um it's only three weeks since Hong Kong came online and they've got that physical um connection.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: The SGE Connect basically goes straight into and taps into Chinese gold for the first time ever that Chinese gold can be actually used and and cross-bordered.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: And and so you got, I mean, everyone has a different number, but I mean, I'm firmly of believer that it's some people say 40,000 times.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: I think it's more like 60, but again, that is that is just my opinion.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's certainly a hell of a lot more monetary gold ever than was officially recorded.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: So so now you've got this is interesting to me, is because now you've got a physically deliverable price.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: The HAU is deliverable, so it's a spot price that is deliverable and settlable.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: So what that's doing, and what we've seen in London, and we see this, is that because while there's 600 to 800 tons of over-the-counter gold traded every day and cash settled, there's three to five tons of that get NSFR compliant, physically settled, have to be T plus one, deliverable.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: Right now you've got the arbitrage between a higher HAU price and a diluted because of the six to eight hundred tons, you've got a lower spot price in London.
20:05
SPEAKER_02: And that what that's doing, what we see is 400-ounce bars migrating out into cheaper bars.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: Of course they want those cheaper bars before you start tapping into because where's the where's the bid offer on a real supply-demand price?
20:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, if you can get some physical bars in there, you can keep the, you can actually enjoy the slightly lower price for a little longer.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: But my God, it's changing.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: It's this the architecture has changed.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the arbitrage has probably gone hot and heavy since Hong Kong opened.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: In my opinion, the the biggest thing of of Hong Kong opening is it now makes the Renimbi or Yuan, it makes it convertible into gold.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: You can take your yuan, bring it to the Hong Kong Exchange, buy gold, and take gold.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: So what you just did is, or what they've done is they've made the yuan convertible into gold.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: It's it's but you've got to you've got to take the step yourself, as opposed to doing it directly with the Bank of China.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: But it's doable and it's it's it seems to uh that exchange seems to be functioning properly at this point.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: And of course, then we've got the likes of Embridge, which has been re-instigated, it's repurposed, but it is expanding.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: You've got China openly, openly um uh talking about this now.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: They've they've got nothing to hide.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's it's you know, obviously they've been sanctioned, they've been weaponized against, they use the the dollar has been weaponized against them multiple times.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: And again, Trump talked about more sanctions if you even do any.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Business with Iran.
22:01
SPEAKER_02: So you've got these platforms.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: So what you're talking about there is so important because if you have a currency, the RB, that is, you can, if I have RB, I can swap it for gold.
22:14
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and guess what?
22:17
SPEAKER_02: It's not so complicated anymore because if I use the M Bridge system, it can be settled in seven seconds.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: So so this is, and this is physical gold, physically in a vault, in my name, high-quality liquid asset, that I can then, I don't have to sell it, but I can collateralize it, I can use it.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: I can if I'm a refiner or a producer, and I want, I don't have to go to that sandpit, that's the corrupt, unregulated sandpit and and be gamed by these guys any longer because I know now where I can never that can never be used as a high-quality liquid asset in those environments because if I collateralize it, there's a paper element.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: I need to know it's pure physical.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: What you just talked about is the R people need to understand how important what you just said is to be able to convert what used to be in 19 before 1971, convertible in in dollars to gold, is now convertible to RB to gold.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you mentioned Ambridge.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: And that's a very, very small number compared to the amount of Swift.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Swift probably does that every day.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh but what Embridge is, it's an escape hatch, if you will, for two countries to do business together on that platform and not involve dollars, and not involve the Swiss system, and not subject them to having their accounts shut off.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: And that was illustrated uh in a big way in October of 2022, when the 300 billion of Russian reserves, treasury reserves, were basically taken.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: The world looked at that, and he had go back and look at a chart on gold.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Go back to October of 2022, and that's when gold started moving higher like a tractor in first gear.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think um so so essentially what what we're seeing here is um the um the the migration of the the dilution of the paper market um as it evolves into a physical market being set outside the West, um in an increasingly liquid.
25:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Bill, three weeks in and gold is$450 up in the first two weeks, another$250 up in the in in the last two weeks.
25:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's not a coincidence, because this is we we know we looked at the COT reports, you look at all that stuff, you know that they were that the the the house was leaning against this rally.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: Right.
25:30
SPEAKER_02: You got caught.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: Why?
25:32
SPEAKER_02: Because the physical market is now setting the price increasingly.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: If you want to give me cheap gold, I've got the mechanism to do it now.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: So therefore, it's it's almost like it's almost like people.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't think people understand.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: I get sometimes I get people come to me, you know, it's gonna blow back up, it's gonna blow back down again.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: You know what?
25:57
SPEAKER_02: And hang on, what you're talking about is historical extrapolations based in 50 from 50 years of paper dilution, and what they fail to get is that that's changed.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: It's no longer, you cannot take extrapolate a long-term um the trend line and say, well, uh it breaks that and you're done.
26:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's ridiculous.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh it amazes me that um so few people are aware of this change in architecture.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, and part of the change is that credit is cracking.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, percent coming out saying that they're gonna uh they're gonna buy long-dated treasuries to to make that supply smaller.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh, for him to come out and say that, I mean, that's that's like a pistol at a horse race.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: It's the starting gun.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: And understand one other thing about this, understand that all the suppression, all the uh manipulation, supporting paper markets, etc., that was all done on credit.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: And credit is cracking.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: All you have to do is look at at Japan.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: Their 30-year uh bond is now 406.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: It was down as low as what 0.25 or 0.5 of a percent at the same time.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, the yen has crashed in value, the yen carry trade is it's unwinding.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: So you've got credit cracking, and that's happening at the same time, where you've got uh capital looking to exit the system and get out from in front of the train that's coming.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: And the only exit is silver and gold.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, there are other exits.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: When I say silver and gold, I'm talking about real assets, and and and that silver gold and all um high-quality low obsolescence assets.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: And and um right, and and Jeff Curry was is is a big uh proponent of that, and he's been talking about it for quite some time.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: He's been been absolutely right.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: Um and and of course, rather have I'd rather be invested in all of those assets than in any kind of form of cash, which could be, I guess, as you say, is all debt, is all debt.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: But I think you've distilled it really well, Bill, because it is really does boil down to debt.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: That's what it boils down to.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, Andrew, if you go back, say 100 years ago, uh when when market participants expected recession or bad times, what would they do?
28:50
SPEAKER_00: They'd move a good part of their capital to cash.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: The thing is, back then cash was backed by gold or silver.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: Today that's not the case.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Today, cash is backed by debt.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: So if you're exiting one paper asset, you're still moving to another paper asset if you go to cash, whether it be T-bills, commercial paper, what have you.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: It's still paper and it's still supported by debt.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: And what we face now is a is a debt implosion, if you will.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: And the thing about owning gold in a debt implosion is the debt implosion takes the banks, it takes the brokers, it takes the insurance companies, and it it neuters the ability of sovereign treasuries and central banks to save the system.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: If you're sitting in gold and that's your cash, when this debt meltdown happens, you're basically going to wake up as being a small private bank because you own gold or silver.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: This is for all the marbles, because all the credit that the the credit as it collapses, that capital's got to go somewhere.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: And that somewhere is out of the system into something that cannot default.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: Gold and silver.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: And that it really cuts to the quick of what is happening right now.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: As an example, um, with um with this the White House is now saying you or best ends saying we'll de-dollarize, you will we will be you'll be off the dollar system if you do any business with Iran.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, so let's bring China into that next.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: So if I'm if I'm dealing, if I'm an oil supplier, um whether it's Iran or anyone else, whether I sell anything into China or do business with China, do I want dollars or do I want Renbi?
30:58
SPEAKER_02: Because you've just described Renbi then is convertible to gold.
31:03
SPEAKER_02: So why would I take dollars?
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I mean uh obviously if you're trading directly with with China, but what about two other countries, neither you know, not China, not Russia, but two other countries that want to trade.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: They can use Embridge, they can avoid using dollars or being even touching the Swift system in any way.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and Embridge is the escape hatch.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: And I think they understand that in Washington.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: I think that they know the writing is on the wall and they're gonna go with it and and and revalue gold higher.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: To what number?
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
31:47
SPEAKER_00: But I will say this the first number won't be the final number.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: You're absolutely right, and I think it's not even that um that gold is that that that gold is replacing the dollar, it it it it is running in tandem with the dollar, and therefore, you but you've got choices.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: So, and obviously into that into that mix, you do have a de-dollarizing effect.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: So it's really interesting.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: This is all this is so so different to what we were talking about even two years ago.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is a de-dollarizing effect, and that's simply because of the United States weaponizing the dollar.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they started talking about it in 2016-17 in Trump's first administration about weaponizing the dollar.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: Then during Biden in October of 2022, they stole over 300 billion of Russian-owned U.S.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: treasuries.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: And all these sanctions, you know, they announced sanctions on this country and that country.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: That is weaponizing the dollar.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's okay, or would have been okay, you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago when we had when the dollar basically was the only game in town.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: There's other games in town now.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: And sovereign treasuries, central banks, etc., investors are making the choice: do we want to own something that I can be shut off on and the money taken?
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Or do I want to own something that's you know that will trade free and clear and no one has the ability to steal my money?
33:39
SPEAKER_02: And then now moving back to silver, um, because I know that it you've been such you've been years ahead of many people talking about the importance of silver and how that how fragile, because of the size of its market, but the but the incredible um utility of it, um, that and especially with AI and everything now, but even so, even more so.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, so now silver has been really being captured by the paper market for so so long.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: But what I'm noticing though is is the constant premiums in Shanghai.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh 12 and uh 12.5, 13% premiums, constant, constant, constant premiums.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: Now, the thing is is that the HAU um uh to FX gold arbitrage um system, because it we're now dealing, it's now being physically settled, and because that flow is being physically settled, silver is also benefiting from that because now you also have essentially when I buy my silver or when we deal in silver on an institutional level, we know that that Shanghai price is physical, it's delivered, it's in the vault, it's got a name on it, it's actually in the vault.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: So this is a huge thing, it's a huge thing.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: So um they are now capturing.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: Why would I why would I even bother to to buy spot silver on the uh FX markets in London when I then know that I'm gonna be bumped significantly higher?
35:32
SPEAKER_02: If I want physical delivery, it'll be it won't be that price, it was never going to be that price, and now um we we see this same arbitrage effect happening um where you've got western, and we say four, I see I know 400 ounce bars uh exiting.
35:49
SPEAKER_02: So, so and that there's not that many of them.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: So, so so I I think that silver, what I'm saying is silver is actually um also becoming ultimately if I know, Bill, if I know it's in a vault, and I know that I can treat it like a high-quality liquid asset in the sense that I can collateralize it, I can actually use it without selling it.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, it's it's uh it amazes me that people come with negative comments about silver, saying, Yeah, but it's it's it'll be back down to 40.
36:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, ludiculous.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, you you mentioned uh two things in one sentence the utility of silver and the fact that it's such a small market.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, dollar-wise, uh it's it's a drop in the bucket compared to any deals that are done today.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Total production.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: It's less than uh what's the number?
36:48
SPEAKER_00: 80 80 billion dollars a year or something like that.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: So it's extremely small.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: The thing is, utility is used in so many different applications, and we've been in a structural deficit.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: This is now the sixth year.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: So you're looking at a market that's showing supply and demand stress.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: The demand uh is is not for any one industry, it's not just solar, it's not just technological, it's not just medicinal, it's used everywhere.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: And you've got you've got this all coming together while credit is cracking.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a perfect storm, is is the way I look at it.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: And as you said long many years ago, the fuse right, the fuse to the derivatives complex, in my opinion.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: But we'll see.
37:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, I mean, I'm not even gonna ask you what price you think it's gonna be because it's it's arbitrary.
37:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it could be anything really.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: Nobody can give you a number on either gold or silver, yeah.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: And the reason being you have no idea.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh let's let's just talk about gold, and let's assume that there is 8,300 tons of gold held by Fort Knox, West Point, etc.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: So, assuming that those numbers are correct, we have no idea how much more money supply is going to come out.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: We have no idea how much more debt is gonna be pushed down into the system.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: So there's there, you know, you're talking about a numerator, denominator, where one of them you don't know.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Now, in the real world, do we really know if the U.S.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: has 8,300 tons?
38:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you go back, the last real audit was 1956.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, so now you don't have the numerator or the denominator.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: So how you know anybody that puts a price on gold, and I can say this because I haven't heard anybody say, you know, 5 million, 23 million, 200 billion per ounce.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: I haven't heard any numbers like that.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: The wildest numbers I've heard, uh, and I think go back 10 years ago was Jim Sinclair talked about 50,000.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you had a billionaire uh last night talk about$50,000 gold.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: What I'm saying is any number that you hear when all is said and done is and will be laughably, laughably low.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: You mentioned Jim Seclair.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: What a gentleman that he was, and I know that you were very closely allied with him.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: What would he think if we were talking to him today?
39:41
SPEAKER_00: What would he how would he sum it up?
39:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Jim, uh Jim would be animated at at this juncture as to what he's seeing.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh and I gotta say, the company that that he founded uh originally was Tanzanian Gold, now it's TRX gold.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: That's coming to fruition, you know, after he's passed away, but I know he'd be be extremely pleased.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh and you know, looking at much higher numbers on gold, when you when you gear higher numbers, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000, when you gear those numbers into mining companies, you're talking about literally companies that print money, but money that can't be the best.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: I guess that brings a little bit of focus onto um the miners.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean, is it is this something you're involved with?
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the miners are a double-edged sword.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: They they're just like margin, if you will.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: On the downside, when gold and silver were going down, their margins uh shrink.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: In some cases, they operate at losses.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: And you have you had what two 2500, 3,000 juniors from 2011 on went bankrupt because they ran out of capital.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: It's a capital-intensive business.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: But on the other hand, on the way up, the the financial and operating leverage is is wild.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you could see you could see stocks go up a thousand fold.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, the right ones.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: Now, one thing you've got to look at is you have to look at uh geography.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: Where are they geographically located?
41:35
SPEAKER_00: Are they in safe havens?
41:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh I would say that the the world believes North America is the safe haven for the mining districts?
41:48
SPEAKER_00: I would question that.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: And I the reason I question that is I mean, look at the finances.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Would would nationalizing mines in the US with a$50,000 gold price or$250 or a million or whatever the number is, would nationalizing mines be able to take care of the debt?
42:17
SPEAKER_00: How about in Canada?
42:20
SPEAKER_00: So my question is, is the US, is North America, is it the safest place?
42:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: But I I think that there is risk of nationalization in North America, just because the finances are so so bad, and there's no way in today's world you're gonna get the population to turn the gold in.
42:46
SPEAKER_02: Let's just say we don't know which way um this weaponization uh against China, if it's gonna evolve or what or other other BRICS countries are gonna evolve, but we've already seen critical minerals being locked down in various jurisdictions, and America is one of the people who have one of the countries that have come in and specified certain critical minerals.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: So that makes sense.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: And what you're talking about is I never thought about the miners getting nationalized, but what what if that I mean, is that plausible?
43:21
SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely plausible.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, think this one through.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Where else do they go to get the gold?
43:27
SPEAKER_00: You got to go to the source.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: You can't get it from the people.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: The people are not gonna turn their gold in.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: No matter how illegal and how much penalty uh they they put on it for having gold.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: What that means is people who have gold, it won't leave their house.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: They'll sit on it till the system's gone and a new system comes up, and gold is again usable.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Gold gets you from this system to the next system.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: And if it breaks down so bad, you use silver to barter.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: But when you have fiscal situations the way they are now so so bad, the most likely place to obtain gold is where it is already, in the ground.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot more of it in the ground than there is in people's, you know, buried in their backyards and and and put in safes.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: And you know, it it's it's so true, and you can understand why people wouldn't um hand in their gold.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it I I saw it, I think it was on you, it was on your website, and and and you were comparing um, or somebody on your website, I think it was you, was comparing um the cost in 1970.
44:42
SPEAKER_02: A home cost you 37 um ounces of gold.
44:46
SPEAKER_02: That same home, 140 ounces of gold.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that was a a good article.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it it it shows how everything since the year 2000 has devalued versus gold.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: Gold has been steadily revalued higher versus all assets.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can look at the SP 500, that's down this century versus gold a lot.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, look at bonds, look at long-term bonds this century, they are down 90-95% in purchasing power versus gold.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: Real estate has been hammered versus gold.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: Everything has been hammered versus gold, and it's not done yet.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: The the biggest part of the move is still in front of us.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the the the one single um thing I that I come across in the pub, for example.
45:45
SPEAKER_02: People say, uh, yeah, but gold is followed on.
45:47
SPEAKER_02: And that you know, you you just segue right in and say, okay, your house, how long have you had your house?
45:53
SPEAKER_02: And then you can get into this conversation.
45:55
SPEAKER_02: 75%, it it's 75% cheaper if you had gold to buy your house now than it would be, you know.
46:04
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, that's ludicrous.
46:06
SPEAKER_02: And that immediately they go, Oh, I had no idea.
46:10
SPEAKER_02: That's the reality of it.
46:13
SPEAKER_02: 100% correct.
46:15
SPEAKER_02: And then people sort of realize that it is a safe haven asset, and there is nothing else that can uh match um that as a safe haven.
46:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and it's 6,000 years on, it's doing exactly what it always did, and um it buys the same.
46:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, everything else is just all um just nonsense, noise.
46:38
SPEAKER_02: It's all noise, isn't it?
46:39
SPEAKER_02: Everything else is credit.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes, well, that's that's true.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: But you know, Bill, it's always good to to to pick your brain on some stuff, and I do actually honestly suggest people pop on your website, I do all the time because it gets the brain going.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay, you know, stuff like that, and that that Jim Rickards thing, I never would have seen that.
47:03
SPEAKER_02: Truth social, it goes on beep, beep, beep, beep all day long.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: I never go back and look half the time.
47:08
SPEAKER_02: But that was an interesting one, and I think it raised all those issues that we talked about earlier, and and the potential of is this orchestrated?
47:19
SPEAKER_02: Is it an error?
47:21
SPEAKER_02: Is it is there's no coincidences, so you know, so what what are we, you know?
47:26
SPEAKER_02: So I I would honestly suggest that people pop in.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh you also, you know, obviously that's free.
47:34
SPEAKER_02: It's it's not don't cost anything.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: And you also do a lot of interviews.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: But what what what would you say to people?
47:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, because we have people who are traders, and we have people who are brand new.
47:47
SPEAKER_02: And basically, what what's your what would you say to them?
47:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, uh especially to the traders, but really to everyone, get out of the system.
47:59
SPEAKER_00: Anything you have in the system is gonna be taken.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the great taken is 100% real.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: Those laws are all on the books, the ink is dry.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: They did not put those laws on the books not to use them, they put those laws on the books to ultimately use them in the end game.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: And if you're a trader, you can be the greatest trader in the world and win 99 out of 100 times.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: But if you haven't left the casino before it goes bankrupt, your chips are worthless.
48:31
SPEAKER_02: Good advice, and then for everyone else, um stack, just stack.
48:37
SPEAKER_02: You've always said just stack, keep averaging in.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: It's not just stack, you've gotta you need to to think to yourself, and it's no longer if it's mathematical that it's gonna happen.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: It's when the system goes down.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: What's your plan?
48:55
SPEAKER_00: You can't make a plan after the system's down.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: You gotta make your plan and implement your plan while the system's still up, running, and you can do it without uh without stress.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: In other words, so you can think clearly to formulate and actually put in place the best plan for you.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: And that I mean it includes everything, it includes food, uh, the ability to clean water, the ability to produce like uh electricity, uh whether you stock up food, or can you grow food, or do you have farmers near you you can barter with?
49:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, think about your entire life if you couldn't wake up, uh turn your computer on, go to go to work, go to the store, go out to lunch, stop on your way home to get food, have food at home, turn the water on, turn the electricity, you know, the lights on, a lot of that stuff's not gonna work.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: So make a plan that if you had to go it alone for two weeks or two months, or God forbid, six months, could you do it?
50:09
SPEAKER_02: Especially true for somebody who is living in a city.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: 100% correct.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you live in a city, that's a plan for being destroyed.
50:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think I know that you took the decision long time ago, uh, long time ago, to become as self-sufficient as you could.
50:30
SPEAKER_02: And um, and and that is obviously uh an option which hopefully if as many people as that can take that should do it if they as they can.
50:39
SPEAKER_02: And there are obviously people that that won't be able to, so but do the best you can.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: If you don't have the means to do everything, do the things that you can, just do the best that you can, and only your only you know whether you're doing the best you can or not.
50:57
SPEAKER_02: Sage advice, Bill.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for parachuting in on us and stirring everything up nicely for us all.
51:06
SPEAKER_02: It's always, it's always brilliant.
51:08
SPEAKER_02: I know it'll be well received, and um this is going out, be out on Monday, so next Monday.
51:15
SPEAKER_02: So nice and quick.
51:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and when people look at it, um please listen because what Bill is really saying is hey, take responsibility for yourself while you can.
51:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you have the opportunity, uh, don't regret it later.
51:32
SPEAKER_02: And and I think um those are sage advice uh from you.
51:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, and thank you so much for actually joining us today.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Andrew.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: All right, thanks for joining us on this episode of Live from the Vault, brought to you by Kinesis Money.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: And a huge thanks to Andrew McGuire and our featured guest, Bill Holter, for cutting through the noise and sharing insights that you just won't find anywhere else.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: All right.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: So if you like this episode, make sure you subscribe right now.
52:01
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52:03
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52:07
SPEAKER_01: And don't forget to share this episode with someone who really needs to hear the real story behind the headlines.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: And we're back soon with more hard-hitting truths from inside the precious metal space.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: And until then, thanks for watching, and we'll see you right here next time on Live from the Vault.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: Bye for now.