Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Live from Dance Teacher Web Conference 2025 in Las Vegas!

Transcript

Live from Dance Teacher Web Conference 2025 in Las Vegas! · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Making the Impact attended the Dance Teacher Web and Expo in Vegas this July with about a thousand of our closest friends from the dance industry.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks to all the attendees who participated and asked such great questions.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Here's our live recording about the do's and don'ts of competitive choreography.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, and welcome to Making It Impact the Dance Competition Live at the Dance Teacher Web.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hey look at listen to all those cheers.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know, yes.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh can everyone hear us okay?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have like a very my my voice is gone.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you were in class yesterday, I hope you could hear me if you were in class because my voice is shot, but the mic is hopefully helping us.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um I'm thrilled to be here alongside Leslie.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And she is here also representing Capizio.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe you saw her at the Capizio booth.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and lots of these friends are friends of Capizio.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome to see you guys again.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, we are making the Impact to Dance Competition podcast.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we have been around since 2019.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: We have over 200 episodes, and we originally started off as a podcast that wanted to get inside the mind of a dance competition judge.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, as you know, a three-minute critique at competition sometimes just isn't enough to get all of that information out.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: So uh through my company, Impact Dance Adjudicators, we staff judges to dance competitions around the country, pre-screen judges, background check judges.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we decided, hmm, we have a roster of 150 judges that are eager to talk about more things in the dance competition industry.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start a podcast and get inside their minds.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how this all started five years ago.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Here we are at a dance conference, like doing live events.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're so honored to be here.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, we love making this podcast possible.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: We've covered truly every topic under the sun.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have an idea for a topic, I bet you we've already covered it, but we probably need to cover it again.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: But still make suggestions because you know, we're only two people.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: We don't our brains, you know, we need more help.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, make suggestions.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And just out of curiosity, is there any podcast fans, listeners in the house, raise your hand if you're already a listener.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's go.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then who's learning about making the impact right here, right now?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Never heard of it until this moment.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: New friends.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hopefully, if you got a goodie bag, if you didn't get a goodie bag, please come and see us because we ran out because there's so many fabulous people here.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: We have stickers to give you as well.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh you can scan the QR code and listen to the podcast every Thursday, relaunching on September 4th, is when we come back into action.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned to uh hear this same discussion on the podcast.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we're covering the do's and don'ts of competition choreography today.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Whoa, this is a hot one for sure.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that how we want to approach this entire discussion is kind of an open forum.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: We want you to ask us questions.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And from our professional opinion and experience as judges for over a decade, as the owner of impact, as in-demand dance educators, we would love to give our perspective on what you think.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: We can also have some more people chiming in too and and chiming in and giving their thoughts.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: But um, we see a lot of a lot of choreography on stage.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: We judge a lot of routines and there's some really great stuff.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's also some r stuff that makes me kind of turn my head a little bit and question things.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, with a we take it all with a grain of salt, and even in our in our critiques, as we know, oftentimes the choreographer is rarely getting feedback, if at all.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're often told we can't do that.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: They'd want us to talk strictly to the dancers, which I understand and respect.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: But there's so many choreographers out there that are like, oh my gosh, can I please just get some feedback?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did you even like my routine?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what could I have done better?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Did that transition make sense?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Did you understand the theme?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, was that appropriate?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Was that safe?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so many questions go unanswered for choreographers out there.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we would love to give back and answer your questions about some of the do's and don'ts of the competition world.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sound good?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yay.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, how this will work because we don't have a runner is I think that we're gonna you can stand up, you can ask the question, or you can sit down and ask the question, and I'll kind of rephrase and we can repeat it back into the microphone so we obtain the recording.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: But anybody off the top that want to kick off with a competition choreography question.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: This question comes from a dance teacher in Utah who feels like they see constant acro at competition with posing and shapes for choreography that constantly wins.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: So they're curious to know how to fix this problem in our industry and what are our thoughts.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think most importantly is stay true to what you do and do what you do the very best that you do.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Stay in your category.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are doing a jazz dance, be firm in the jazz vocabulary that is in that dance.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we do see a lot of acro.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And listen, we're not acro haters.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I believe that acro should live in the acro category.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think a little flourish here and there, a little aerial here and there, wonderful, amazing.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna add to the routine.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if it does add to the routine.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but when it becomes superfluous and then it becomes an a gymnastics tumbling past exhibition is when we get a little, you know, messy.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the hard part again for judges is that we are often told that we can't comment on something that is out of the dancer's control.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if the dancer was given this choreography, which includes a whole lot of acro and it was executed really well, all I can really say is I would prefer that you put this in a different category if it's so much acro that it's taking away from the jazz or the lyrical.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's why I'm I my answer is not probably the best answer in the world.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not the answer that your parents are probably gonna love either.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're true to what you do, if you believe in I teach jazz, I teach lyrical, do it and make that the thing that your kids love.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if they love that more than they love the idea of acro, if that's not what y'all do, make sure you're excited about what you're teaching and that that none of your teachers or you are kind of like, yeah, you we just do jazz.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, we do jazz.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: We do tap.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's the best thing in the world because it is for for those of us who love it, it is, and it doesn't need any more.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's my opinion.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I also think that it's really hard because they they a lot of the competitions don't want us to penalize the dancers for what choreography that they were given.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: They can't control that they were given a hipshake and an aerial and that's what wins.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: But like then we have to judge it for what it is and if it was well executed, we can't deny that it was, even though I'm sitting here as a jazz dancer saying, this is not jazz.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this the ratio of the choreography is 80% acro and 20% jazz.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where's the pot de beret?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Where's the triplet step?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Where's the pivot turn?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you are entering in the beginner 10-year-old division and you're just doing acro flips the whole time, but you entered it in the jazz category, I'm really upset as the jazz, a jazz teacher because I'm wishing that I saw jazz vocabulary for a 10-year-old beginner.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And instead the ratio is off, but I can't penalize the dancer for that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what's really hard is then it wins.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone's like, well, you let it win, so why'd you let it win?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: If it, you know, it's like, don't let it win.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Then it's like, but I can't, because I'm being told I can't penalize the dancer.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this isn't the dancer's fault, it's the teacher's mistake for putting too much acro into a jazz routine.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just such a hard, fine line.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think Leslie's answer was so great as far as like just knowing what your strengths are and as much of the pressure of acro dominating competitions is maybe making us as choreographers rethink, do I need this for this dance?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily, I think if you are true to the genre that you are entering, I wish I saw more of that.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see more competition choreography true to the genre that it's entered in.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because what's the point of having a genre if it's just gonna be a fusion of who knows what?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're all training these dancers to understand the foundational elements of each genre of dance.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, as the teacher, when we've said this is lyrical, but you're giving me a contemporary dance, I'm like, okay, so does the teacher not know what lyrical is?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then that makes me question.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not the kids' fault, they're just doing what they were told.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, this is straight up not lyrical at all.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't see a turned-out position once.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: They've been standing on their head the whole time, you know?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: But like, this should probably be an open or contemporary, but then the teacher thinks it's lyrical, you know?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that we have to stay true to the genres and know what we're what we're doing is is good enough and not feeling like we have to follow the acra trend, even from pressure from our dancers and parents, which we're the professionals.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Do you were as good as ever given that kind of feedback to the competition?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we started the podcast.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we hope we are hoping that they're listening.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think they are, very much so.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: They they all I've talked to.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for that question.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good one.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a great question.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are we giving this information to the competition companies?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I I think that we have we've said it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've we I've talked to competitions that I'm affiliated with through because we have about 15 different companies that we work with, staffing judges to different competitions around the country.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they definitely listen.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: They've they've heard those similar complaints from judges.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they've heard similar complaints from me as the middleman, uh, negotiating with them and speaking to them.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: We have anonymous surveys and feedbacks from the competitions and the judges that we share with all of our uh clients.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we can all learn and grow and educate together.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, I I think they're listening to the podcast, hopefully.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we hope.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Who else, right?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sweet.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: So how do the competitions hold their rules account holding accountable to the rules that they are stating that we're supposed to be following when it comes specifically to acro.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And something I've noticed actually in the industry is that a lot of competitions, and I don't know if you've noticed this, but they've gotten rid of the rules of accro.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they've just said, you can do whatever you want.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're not counting anymore.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're not gonna consider anything uh acro anymore.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Where it used to be, remember when it used to be like two.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: There used to be two ac you know, you could only have two in the jazz and two in the that I don't really know.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it does exist at some competitions still because let's be real, there's like 200 dance competitions just in the United States alone who are not, you know, working together.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have anything standardized, which of course we can talk about.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, I mean, there are there is definitely still some out there that do call that out.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, speaking from our IDA affiliated competitions, I know Decca Dance, which is an East Coast based competition.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: They have a specific uh judge who is there to find those deductions and to find those things.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like an auditor.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to call it out.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So like some places are doing that.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is um not necessarily an easy fix, but that is an easier fix for a competition to implement is to have like the deduction judge or the person who is making sure that they're following the rules in terms of appropriateness, in terms of acro skills.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, are you in the correct genre?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is what that position does at DECA.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that is some feedback that, like, perhaps, you know, if that's something interesting to you that you would like to see a competition do as their clients, you know, they're they might listen to us because we're their employees, but they're gonna listen to you because you're their client.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if en masse the dance studio industry said, we want rules about this and we want you to follow them, then maybe that's gonna help.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think uh power in numbers.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And also I always say that a lot of people will say, well, the judges didn't penalize it, or the judges uh should have said something about how many acro tricks there were.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have time to do that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm not the the dance police when I am judging.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I you're gonna be mad at me if I didn't give you a full critique, right?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: So my brain's moving a mile a minute.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to critique what I'm seeing in that moment.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta score, I gotta take notes for special awards, I gotta nominate this for choreography.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Last thing I I have time to do is say, hey, tabulator, I think that there was one too many acro tricks in that.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or, hey, tabulator, I think this is in the wrong level.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: You should bump it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's not enough time.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: You see how fast they crank through competition entries.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we I don't even have a chance to take a sip of water and eat a chip in between one routine to the nut to the next.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there does need to be more accountability with the rules and hiring additional staff to monitor those things.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that is legitimate their job.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is their job on the panel.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: We need that.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be that's that's how we're gonna pro make progress in our industry.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: If we're telling the studio, hey, they're not really recreational anymore, and you know that they're not, but even our auditor thinks that.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna bump them.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like instead, it's just like slipping through because who's who's monitoring it?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and a lot of competitions will claim that they are, but are they?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are questions that we should be asking when we're registering for competitions as well, because if they're gonna advertise it, they need to hold up to it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: We definitely agree with you.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh right here?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: The question is about um weighted how we weight as a judge the percentage of performance versus execution in your score.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it depends on the scoring system.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So some rubrics separate that for you already.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you're getting 25 points for this, 25 points for that.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but some systems are one number.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I'm guessing what you're asking more about.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So uh this I think differs for from judge to judge, and it depends on your personal values system and like perhaps your background in judging and in dancing and you know, professional performance career and everything.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I put more weight on technique most of the time.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because for me, you know, technique has to be honed.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tech technique has to be studied and taught.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Performance, there are some kids who just have it, you know, and I think it's I I don't want to judge your star quality.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want to judge something that is measurable that I can see, hey, I can see that you've taken this ballet.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I can see that you've, you know, learned how to execute a step properly.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's why I put more weight in in my mind.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not doing like math in my mind because I was a dance major, so we don't do that.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yes, in my mind, I'm I'm thinking more about the technique as where I'm placing more value.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's other people in different styles, perhaps, and maybe their background is more performance-based, and maybe it is something that they consider more important to like shine rather than execute something properly.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, you know, the panel is all different, and that's the beauty of why we go to competitions, is because if you don't like my feedback, you can say goodbye to it and you can listen to Courtney's feedback, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's no rule that says you have to listen to every single critique.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: We wish you did because we're doing our job.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all of us as adjudicators, and I'm sure many of you are adjudicators as well.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: We do this because we love it.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's exhausting.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't teach regularly anymore, but this is a way I can still give back.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is a way I can still use my education to influence and educate.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's not a lot of people out there who are just kind of like doing it for the paycheck.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're out there, but it's not everybody.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I care, she cares, y'all care, we all care.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that when it comes to execution, uh, a lot of that goes hand in hand with the choreography that they're given.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So is the choreography highlighting their strengths?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is it too hard?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do the transitions make sense for this dancer?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's been so many times when I'm watching a beautiful dancer and the transition that was given to them was making it impossible for them to execute whatever was coming up next.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sitting there thinking, like, if they just had a step-step in between, instead of going from a bomb to a triple pirouette to an upside down who knows what, there needs to be those in-between steps.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So then I can fall that falls back on the choreographer, even though the kid is trying to do their best to execute what was given, but they can't because of what was given to them.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the same thing can apply also to like level of difficulty.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes there's just so much crayons into a dance that it's truly impossible for a kid to execute.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And even if they are like the the biggest athlete, like the best athlete, they have the best stamina, I can just see it on their face, with which which then impacts their performance, right?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: You can see it all over their face.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: They are struggling, they are stressed.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: But you you can see it when a dancer is so settled into their movement and feel so confident with what they're given that then they can let go of the technique that they work so hard on and dip into that performance element, which is a big part of your score.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people will be more captivated by a performer that is selling it, even if their technique isn't as strong.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: We all want them to have strong technique, of course, but it is something truly special.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you can get out on stage by yourself as a soloist and command a room and tell a story with your eyes, like that's a very mature thing.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of young dancers have it, a lot of older dancers have it, a lot of dancers don't have it.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of dancers don't have it at all.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it is something that is tricky to navigate.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, I think that when it comes to execution, I think that sometimes it comes hand in hand with choreography.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm big on performance, especially when we're at like top first, second, third, it is probably coming down to what kind of choreography were you given?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: How did you execute it?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And did you still sell it in your performance?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's a matter of opinions based on the judges at that point.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And one other tag on to that that I'll say is when for us as judges, like, yes, the one score is easier because like Courtney said, there's a thousand bajillion things we're trying to do in that two minutes.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when I can type in 95.2, amazing, easy.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: But the only way I can type type in 95.2 and give you that high platinum is if I'm backing it up with what I'm saying.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: So like you're never gonna hear from me, 95.2, good job.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Point your feet.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's, you know.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So in order to have a system like that, you have to trust, trust that your judge is gonna back up that feedback and tell you.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I will literally say, hi, you're getting this level of award because I'm taking note of all these things that you're doing.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm a judge who will say things like that to give you an idea.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't have that performance, 25 points, technique, 25 points, then you're really not gonna know.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another thing to ask competitions when you're registering, if you've never been before.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does your scoring rubric look like?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Are are they giving one score or are they giving five scores?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what's how is it weighted?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, then you're just gonna be more educated when you go in to how your kids are gonna be received, you know, if it is the one score versus the five scores into one score.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Hey dance world, it's Courtney.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know that back in 2007, I was a young arts award winner in modern dance?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: During my senior year of high school, I was flown to Miami for an all-expense day trip to Young Arts with so many other talented artists from across the country.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: That experience opened my eyes to so much more beyond just dance, and it pushed me to grow as an artist in ways I never imagined.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: It truly sparked the beginning of my career, and I want every dancer to have the chance at that same opportunity.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Young Arts is one of the only organizations in the United States that supports young artists across 10 different disciplines, including dance.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Every year, their national arts competition is open to visual, literary, and performing artists ages 15 to 18, or in grades 10 through 12.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: By applying, dancers can receive mentorship and cash awards, gain access to a lifetime of creative and professional development, and join an uplifting community of artists who continue to connect and collaborate throughout their careers.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Even today, Young Arts continues to support me as an alum by sponsoring my dance podcast.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a dancer between the ages of 15 and 18 or currently in grades 10 through 12, don't miss this life-changing opportunity.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Apply now to Young Arts National Arts Competition before the deadline on Wednesday, October 8th, 2025.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Learn more and start your application now at youngarts.org slash apply or click the link in our show notes.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, what things are judges seeing that we don't want to see anymore, pretty much, is the question.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: What things we're actually doing wrong.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: What are we doing wrong?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um You're not doing anything wrong.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I think everybody, you know, we recognize the job that you have and the challenges you have with the levels and the parents and the kids and the kids who want to do the acro.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't do acro, and it's just it's a lot.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, like number one, I just commend every single one of you.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: My mom was a studio owner for 40 years.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't teach regularly in a studio, and there's a reason I didn't go into studio ownership.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a hard, hard job.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I I recognize that.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: What I see a lot of times that I would like to see less of is specifically in that like novice level, I want to see basic foundational steps of every genre.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to see run over there and do a pose and then run over here and stand in a pose for eight counts.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, of course, I'm happy to see things done in unison.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I would love, I love flocking.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like flocking's a wonderful, you know, way to get kids to a to a space.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're in the, you know, and I use jazz a lot because we're we're jazz arenas, but even in tap, let's say, if the choice is between flap peel, fallap heel, fallap ball change, fullap ball change to get to a spot or march, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: If your kids can do the flap peel, I'd rather see that because that is more indicative of tap, right?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Children march in all kinds of things in life outside of dance.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the choices that you make when showcasing novice.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: level things or or younger children, I'm really more pleased and more believing in what your studio is doing if I'm seeing those foundational elements of every single style.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I understand like wanting the unison and wanting in every group is different.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: So like one year you have the group of kids who can flap heal.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next year you're like, man, we just got to keep marching the whole year.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, kind of in an ideal world, yes, I'd rather see the flap heel than the march.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about this on our one of our last episodes of our season, which we do like a kind of a wrap-up of the 2025 season.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been doing this and we get judges to chime in from our roster, the share things that they've seen from around the country judging all year.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I just gotta say, I'm just sick of all the headstands and all of the knee slams and anything that just feels dangerous to a dancer.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we are physical people as dancers, we are very physical, we are very strong, we're very athletic, but the execution of a lot of these elements, even like the headsprings, the kip ups, I hopefully like we're learning new tools on how to execute them here with different resources that are available at Dance Teacher Web.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And because I just feel like that it to me looks like a lot of people are just trying to put this in because we think we need it and it's and it's cool and trendy versus understanding how to really teach some of these skills safely.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's always down to safety.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm so sad to say it, but I watched I watched a dancer blow out their knee.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want that for anyone.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew it was going to happen before she even took off.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I turned my head and heard the scream like I as a judge I should not be flinching in my seat ever.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that is something that if a dancer hasn't gotten that skill before the first competition, it's out and I'm sorry.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's next season.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even think we rethink about putting it in later.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, it's not ready yet.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because how long's the season January to May, some people only compete maybe for three of those months.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I highly doubt that that skill is going to be ready in three months, even if you set give them the goal of, oh, it's going to be ready by let's let's see how it's looking by May.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's great that we're setting these goals for dancers to achieve skills, but at the same time, give it till next year if it's not ready yet.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: They need time to to really figure this out to make it safe because you know we're not on us we're not on a sprung flirt often at some of these competitions.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: We don't a lot of dancers aren't wearing protection on their knees.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Plug for the bunheads knee pad um it's a lovely like we have multiple skin tones available.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Knee pads, knee pads, knee pads, knee pads.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Australia requires you to wear knee pads.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Does anybody from Australia hear?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is something we heard from our accounts in Australia is that in in many of their competitions, if you're doing any skills that drop to your knee, they are required to wear a knee pad.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's brilliant because it is it's you know like you said knee blowouts, we just we get one body.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: We get one body and you don't want to blow it out on a knee slam because it's cool when you're 12.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: So knee pads.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mind seeing this stuff when it's done well.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's important to like mention because but there was a I I feel like I every dance had a head some some type of I'm standing on my head in some capacity.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Even when it like should not the genre doesn't call for it whatsoever, but we're still gonna get on top of our head and do a headstand or a headspring or something.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it just to me feels like that we're feeling pressure to follow a trend.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that is okay.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're all gonna feel that right that's why we're here learning and growing as educators so we can continue to evolve and learn new skills and learn new things to bring back to our dancers.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of but then when I see that complemented with the level of technique that I already know they're not ready to execute this trendy skill, that's when I'm kind of like upset as the judge because I'm just like I I just we got to go back to basics a little bit before we start trying to tempt some of these.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that can be said across the board with any genre and any foundational skill, like making sure we're going through the progression of each genre to get the dancers to where they need to be to dance safely because if not, we're just throwing tricks at them with transitions that are making it even harder for them to execute.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then it could become dangerous on stage with adrenaline going and everything, you know?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we are rooting for the dancers.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: We want them to succeed.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a matter of giving them the tools to do that.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have one more to add that's very quick and not similar but turns.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there like there are so many ways to show that your students can turn aside from all of succones or fouetes or write pirouettes constantly.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love to put a menage in a pique turn, pique turn, shane shane, shane, shane make a circle um show me different kinds of turns pencil turns, compass turns.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think we forget about some of these things again because of oh gosh, that the we we got to do the fouetes I love an Erebus turn.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Erebus turns I've seen that in a minute.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I mean I think there just remember some of those turns that maybe feel a little balletic to you but maybe there's a way you can spin it into lyrical.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And like it should be there if it's lyrical, you know?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want an Erebus turn if you're in the lyrical give me an Erebus turn like give me an attitude turn.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Show me a turned out position.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Show me that you understand that the prep needs to match the turn.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the type of stuff that I want dancers to show me on stage because then that's that's confirming your knowledge as a teacher and you the training that you gave them.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: If we're forgetting about the in-betweens or the preps or the things like that, then that informs me there's there's missing links to your training.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's the those details are missing in the technical training.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: What what are those weaknesses at the studio and what do we need to continue to work on as a studio?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: If everyone's stepping off the floor with the heel instead of the toe from a roll, then that's like a a technical habit or flaw of the studio that somehow no one's caught.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: And what do we need to do in our training to now now emphasize the importance of this or if every time they step into their preparation for a turned out firouette but it's parallel, why wasn't that caught?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I know that's kind of a lot of people feel you know the prep, but I'm a big stinker for the prep.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're aligning our hips, we're setting ourselves up like there's there's reasoning for it, but like every that's why there's different opinions on a panel, right?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: One judge might say yes to that one judge would be like what are you talking about?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And they're not even going to catch it.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: But there's only so much we can say in a in a short critique but we as judges get to know your studio through a weekend, right?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're there the whole time.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're watching every single dance.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: By the end of that weekend I already know that studio A loves a prop, studio B loves a a headpiece, studio C loves contemporary only and they didn't show us anything else like I'm already making a checklist of every studio.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you know that's just another thing to think about is that we really do see the progress of your studio like a a whole um progress throughout the entire event by the end of the weekend.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I always encourage I said this at our last podcast I always encourage studios to listen to the critiques in order if they can, which is uh probably impossible for you to do.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: But like our our critiques, my critiques change throughout the weekend.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not gonna say the same thing over and over and over again if I've already said it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mean I again like I guess if you want me to but then that just gets repetitive you know and it's like okay remember from your solo last time I saw I want to make sure I would I would prefer to talk about other things, you know, because then I just feel like I'm repeating myself and wasting time when you could get more knowledge out of us instead of just saying point your toes every single time or straighten that knee every single time.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's another little tip I'd recommend.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: We could talk about that forever but let's move on.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Go right ahead.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Die hard.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay so this question is Leslie is going uh what did we love this season at competition?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: What were some of the things that stood out to us that were very memorable?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love the question.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um because I have I have actually a studio and I can't remember their name but they're out of Brooklyn, New York.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um every single dance they did had the most incredibly clear story from their littles to their bigs to their giant production numbers.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: They won actually the Making the Impact Award which is an award IDA affiliated competitions give out at all the competitions.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a number that stands out to all of the judges as something that they just can't can't stop thinking about.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you won the award.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you yes our ask of this question uh won an award um for that but the num the number that I really remember was called the giving tree and it was the giving tree the Shell Silverstein story um and everybody was dressed as part of the tree and they told this story so beautifully and the visuals of the way they were costumed just I mean it was I was crying because it was beautiful and there was not a turn.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: There was not a trick there was not an acro it was storytelling at its finest.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you could tell these children had technique as well but it wasn't being superfluously used to make a point.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was just it was stunning beautiful storytelling.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you know as much as I do harp on technique because I'm a huge technician, if you can move me with movement and storytelling, then like you've got a friend for life because that's that's what that's what we do.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's expression, it's storytelling, it's relatability and that's sometimes what I see missing from competitive dance.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we do get sort of into the we have to do check this, you know, check this off and check that off and you know it when it really comes down to it, dance is for everybody, dancing is for everybody.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I love to recognize that often more so than technique.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like one of the things that I've seen this year in particular, um, I do feel like there's a resurgence of jazz dance that's hitting the stage.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's some really iconic choreographers that are out in the industry right now that are really leading by example and making a change for like jazz being cool again.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that at times there's a little bit too much fusion in that jazz category for me personally as a jazz teacher.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time I'm real excited to see jazz like a category of jazz and not just lyrical and contemporary.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I wish that translated over into solos.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think studios are on board with that with like we want to bring jazz dance as a group and get all of our dancers together as a group because we love jazz and we train in jazz.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: But then when it comes time to like dancers choosing what solo they want to do, especially teen and over as we know it's always contemporary and lyrical.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: And half the time those two genres can be completely blurred left and right.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: They should just call it contlyrical.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah like just blend it all together now.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah I I do love the jazz coming back and I love the emphasis that teachers are putting on that and the thought that's going into it.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: I also just love a clean routine.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love a dance that's just I can tell like you've spent time talking about the details that dancers are counting their music and not just dancing to the lyrics.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can tell as a judge.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely can tell those things.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: And when I see it I call it out and I say thank you so much for counting your music.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I will always compliment the dancers and the teachers for doing some really great things on stage when I see it because you know having a prop or having like a fun theme or things like that are great, but they have to be executed well and uh they have they have to be very clear what dancers need to know what they're dancing about.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like they have to walk on stage all right what's this dance?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just was doing lyrical but now I'm going to jazz and I'm ready.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we're gonna be firecrackers today.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna be confident like they got to get into the mindset and everybody's got to be committed.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And when you see dancers hit the stage like that, then the piece is just unstoppable.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even if there is a flaw here or there, like I'm I'm excited that they all know what they're dancing about.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And there doesn't always have to be a story, but I think at least if there's a discussion on intention in every single dance that you create um and what type of character or performer you want them to be, that's going to come out in in their execution on stage as well and make it really fun for the audience to watch.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've literally said, I want to get up on stage and be in this dance.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have said that stancer's my most favorite thing to say is when I can say that, oh, I'm so happy.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that's what any teacher would want.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: They're you know like me too, me too.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:06
  unknown: All right.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right here.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you're talking about scoring like once you break it down into like the top 10 and you're thinking about the overalls as in the genres competing against each other for that.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um well so there's not we don't score any differently for that.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is sort of just how it breaks down.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's kind of like you have to backtrack into like, okay, we're doing the adjudications and then where is that going to fall?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think the the way that that works the best is when you have a very well-rounded panel.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it will make a lot of sense when you look at that top 10 overalls when you're seeing the lyrical versus contemporary versus hip hop is when there's somebody on the panel, there's enough people on the panel that have enough experience in each each genre to judge it accordingly because hip hop is not my specialty.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I am going to be looking more at your performance quality rather than your technique.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: But if you've got your hip hop teacher who's next to me, he he or she may be looking at the technique more.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where that score is going to come in.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think it you're gonna see a messy overalls if you have a panel of people who have the exact same experience.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that is again again a thing to ask competitions.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: What do your panels look like?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: How do you select your panels?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of hip hop coming do you have somebody on this panel who is going to understand what we do and if they can't say yes then maybe you say well could you do that for us or maybe we're gonna go over here to streets or to wherever because I think like I said it does work the best when you have a very well-rounded panel.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: It is hard because when you think about it, even if there is one, two, three judges and even if there is that spot one specialty judge, the other two still might score it not how the hip hop judge would thought to score it, where then that it just kind of blends into the middle and then that dance doesn't get the recognition that it deserves because we're all and this and it's never going to happen.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: No one is an expert in every genre, right?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like e all of us as dance educators.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean if you if you teach every genre go you like I am so impressed by you.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like most of us have a specialty and most of us are hired to have a niche and are specialized in particular genres of dance that we have very much studied and learned and can give back to.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: So the same expectation for judges when a lot of people like well judges should know everything.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's like but do y'all know everything?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Cause like as you know we're teachers too and like that's there's not really much continuing education for judges.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's really not out there.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: There should be but there's not and like I I'm not a hip hop specialty either.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm a tap dancer but I have been tapped in a in a hot second.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know some of that that starts leaving you and you're not immersed in it 247.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: So can I critique tap?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Can I tell what's good and what's bad?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Can I give you a full critique that's valuable to take back yes but I don't know how the other judges are scoring.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes it might just meet in the middle even though like it should should have possibly been higher.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I know tap judges that have that have expressed that concern so frequently when they're like how did y'all score that so low?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like what that was the best tap dance I've ever seen but they just don't know tap.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And but they thought it was exciting but they also judges are sometimes possibly hesitant to score it where they think because they don't really know enough about it to score it where they they doesn't I think this might look good.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna give it a this like you know it's it's definitely subjective it's definitely a fine line it's scoring is different everywhere.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's so tricky um and it's so hard to think how can a hip hop dance to a tap dance to a lyrical dance compete against each other.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it is so hard to wrap our head around that.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I do love when competitions do like highest in lyrical, highest in jazz, highest in whatever genre I think that's really nice.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: But then I get a little bit I love what we're recognizing that and I think we should but then I've seen people win highest in a genre and I'm like that wasn't even that type of genre dance.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: So why are we rewarding right and then we get back to that conversation right of well you didn't put that in lyrical but it won lyrical you know I was like that was a contemporary dance.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: You called that jazz and you swept the category like because the technique was good, the choreography was good.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: It just wasn't the genre of what it was supposed to be, you know?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: So then it's like all these things that's why we like to have these conversations with actu the choreographers and the educators because we're the ones that are classifying it.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: We're the ones that are choreographing it.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: But we have our hands tied so frequently when we're sitting at the panel at competitions because now we are just an independent contractor working for another organization that is telling us how what their rules are and what their structures are and what their scoring rubrics are that we have to do our job.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um so I do think that all of this is like you said great feedback to give to competitions because you are their customer.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we do have another question we do.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go into that.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: There any questions in the back of the house anywhere?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: The glasses yes here we go this is a good one today doing the most all right the topic is how do the oversexualized routines always seem to win.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh God I'm sure I'm sweating and podcast listeners out there in podcast land we've covered this um multiple times.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate that the conversation is still ongoing because listen it is I mean just with the recent internet phenomenon of you know that whole conversation that was happening last week I'm not going to name any competition names but you know it's it's happening more often than not.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that being said, please give a listen to our episode that launched this year called the oversexualization of children in dance.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you scan any of the QR codes anywhere, it'll take you straight to our website or Spotify type in oversexualization and it should pop up as an option for you.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you need a direct link, DM me, I'll send it to you.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: We need people to listen to this episode so important.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: But yes thank you for asking this question because again we recognize that this is a conversation that is ongoing and we should talk about it because it should be talked about because we need to fix this problem.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: So what tends to happen and you already know this because we've said it multiple times, our hands tend to be tied as judges.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: We work for an outside organization.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're all different in their values and what they expect from us.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: There are many times when we can't say anything.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: There are many times when people have said something or refused to judge and said I'm not doing this if they're recognizing something's inappropriate and then you get fired.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or then the studio never comes back and doesn't bring back the hundreds of thousands of dollars that they've spent.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's we it's such a slippery slope because it's business, but it's also children.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it is really hard.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: So what tends to happen, what I've noticed is the dances that are oversexualized tend to be dancers who are also technically proficient and happen to be really great performers.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if our hands are tied, if I can't say anything detrimental to the kid because it's not the kid's fault, the kid is doing what they were told all I can say and recognize is your technical proficiency and your execution that was phenomenal for what you were given.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can say I really don't think this music is inappropriate.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't appreciate this movement being done to this music by this child that's seven years old.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can say those things.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: But if I give you a 70 out of a hundred, I am gonna get in trouble as a judge, I am going to get fired, I'm not gonna be asked back to this competition the studio owner is not going to have that 70 out of a 90.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes very, very difficult to do our job.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I am always someone who will speak on that critique and tell you what I think and then that's all I can do.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it that's the hard part like you said because it the scoring is where it really comes into play, right?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like why are they winning?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Why are they being scored?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Why aren't they being disqualified?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Why aren't judges giving them a really low score?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: We can't they literally can't so like that's another problem for our industry.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: I personally think and I've actually noticed if there are, I've seen it some competitions would have broken down scoring, right?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Not just a single number there used to be a choreography category where'd it go?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah there'll be you could deduct for that like if there was choreography.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: But like I still can't get if it's like out of 10, they will yell at me if I say it's zero out of 10.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: They'll be uh uh you can't you got you still gotta give it something I'm like but it don't deserve nothing.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: So how do I you know and even with that if it the technique is still good and the performance is still good and everything else it's still gonna possibly place right compared to who else showed up.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like there's only really so much I personally think that and I've been saying this for years and like competitions probably listen and I don't know why they haven't started it.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think there should be a deduction box at the end of every score that is holding the choreographers accountable so we can give a score that is just straight up based on what I witnessed and good job on your execution great technique great performance quality costumes look good.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then or maybe not maybe costumes are at the bottom because that's also in the the teacher's hands.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that's in the teacher's hands, that costume was inappropriate and the song choice was inappropriate.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: There was bad language in it um the the movement was suggestive the the type of facial expressions you told the kids to give me made me uncomfortable whatever it is deduct deduct deduct deduct and then that shows that at least the teachers are the reason why this was wrong.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it still might place it still might you know but I think if we were doing if we were adding that to score sheets I think that could be a start to possibly you know fixing this problem.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that we're afraid the industry is afraid the industry is afraid of losing money and um getting talked about and it's we should be more afraid of the detriment that oversexualization is doing to children.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: But somehow that's is not the case.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know and you're asking this question because you care and everybody in this room cares.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: So like we are among good company here but out there, you know that's that's the people we're trying to convince dancers, choreographers and teachers are you ready to take your routines to the next level at Impact Dance Adjudicators our online judges critiques give you the professional feedback you deserve.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: And here's why we're the best in the business.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: All of our Judges are pre-screened industry professionals, many with over 10 years of experience in the judge's seat, known for their fabulous critiques at competitions across the country.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: With IDA's online judges' critiques, you can request a genre-specific judge to get accurate feedback tailored to your submitted dance style.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: And no more waiting around for weeks to receive back your critique.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: We guarantee to have your feedback returned to you within five business days.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if you need an even faster turnaround, we're proud to be the only service in the industry that offers 24-hour rush delivery.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Our exclusive post-critique additional feedback goes beyond the standard critique that you get at competition.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Your judge will pause the video and break down your corrections, offering actionable advice and exercises to take back into the rehearsal studio.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And with critiques starting at just$35, we offer competitive pricing in the online critique market.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: IDA's online judges critiques have been serving the dance community since 2017, with hundreds of happy customers who return year after year and five-star reviews.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Visit Impact DanceAdjudicators.com slash online critiques or click the link in our show notes to submit your routine and experience why our online critique service is the best in the business.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: That is such a pet page.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: What is that?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the the fault of um the turnboards, to be honest, those little turning disc thingies, because you don't you're not having to use any sort of muscle muscle memory to get up on relevant, you're just standing there and rotating.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a good center, and some kids do, you know, until they hit their growth spurt and then it goes all wonky.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it's I think it's that personally.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's lack of ballet technique personally.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's just me, because I feel like we discover our relevant primarily in ballet.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: We can use it in all styles, but like I can tell if a dancer knows how to point their foot properly.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the dancers that don't turn on a relevant also are sickling their feet and their point.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: So then I'm like, let's get back to the bar, y'all.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we got to get back to basics again.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: And can we incorporate those foundational ballet elements in a jazz class?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or a lot of I've heard that studios don't even do ballet and they just do technique class, which I don't even know what that is, but like you do you and make sure that you were really training the in those elements where we're engaging our full leg and we're we're pulling up in our leg, we're finding our highest releve, we're training the muscle memory so when we go to rotate, we don't drop in the heel.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I always call it out.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't care how many pirouettes you did, if your heel is down, it's not.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's I call it a spin.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a spin, not a pirouette.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: You can you don't get to call it a pirouette if if your releve is not high and you don't suspend out of it, right?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm here for you.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I I I hear you on the relevance.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for breaking that ice there.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we need it.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: Friend right next door, yes.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the solo question, um burnouts, uh feel the overcompetitiveness, uh, the the expense to solos, all of that.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it sounds a little, I don't know.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of feelings about solos because I feel like solos should be a privilege.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think that solos are a privilege anymore.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: If it's if you if you can pay for it, you get a solo.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody, I mean, the amount of solos I've watched that I am just like, we're so not ready for this.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: We are so not ready.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: They might, they don't even look like they want to be there sometimes, the poor little soloists.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I know it's like do ask that question.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I wonder, and you feel bad because you're like, so your mama paid so much money for this.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: Mom wanted it.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: And she's out there just miserable doing her dance.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and I I'm so glad you brought this up because I agree with you.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think solos at one point in time were a privilege, you know, seniors only, or you had to audition.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there were people who didn't make it.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: And but, you know, and we can speak to this every a lot of a lot of us can speak to this.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: Dance is not a solo activity.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Dance as a society is a communal activity.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and like we are obviously far beyond that in our society.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: We do other things, we perform, we have jobs that are, you know, performance-based.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality, there's group dances are what is being paid in the industry.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: There are jobs that you can have in a group.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, soloists are few and far between.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's this is just a generational thing that, you know, people want to be special, that they want their kids to be special.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: They want to say, so and so did this, and I did this, and I have, I'm so versatile in all these genres, which of course we want you to be versatile.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I agree with you.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the challenge is we have a lot of us probably have dug ourselves into this hole of, you know, we caved at one point.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know my mom's studio did, and everybody, if you can pay for the solo, you can have the solo.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's how do we as an industry change that back to this is a privilege.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is more important to be in group dances.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's a requirement to be in group dances in order to have a solo at X age or whatever.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I feel like I've seen a few competitions start removing solos from like some of the lower divisions, the levels.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I respect it on it personally.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: From I respect it.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a beginner dancer, like solos are terrifying.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like we pro you probably did one at a point in time in your life.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: You can't pay me enough money to get out there on stage by myself these days as a professional dancer, and I do this for a living.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to blend in with my ensemble.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be a great one.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I understand we want to experience it, but I think that there is a time in training when we're ready to experience a solo.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when we're I mean, well, even when we're beginner, and I don't think beginners don't can't do solos, we all have to start somewhere, right?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, maybe that's an incentive.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that some competitions are seeing that, let's try to make it an incentive for people to dance where they belong.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because personally, if you have time for a solo, you're probably not recreational.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you're if you're at the studio that much, you're probably not recreational.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: And no one's following the rules of the hours and the tricks or whatever it is.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we know you know, at least with that, and that will cut back.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and then on the business side, competitions really don't make a ton of money from solos.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: They make ton money on groups.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: So they want to entice people to get back into the group atmosphere.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to say so do I as a judge, because I'm judging full days of solos.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the contemporary category in the teen division is like five hours long.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: My eyes are going cross.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it all blends.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: How do you stand out in that?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like And then we're just kind of bummed because all the music's very sad.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you've put me in five hours of a sad, sad music, and we're reaching, and that's all we're doing.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all give me some jazz.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, ma'am, right here.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: So multiple solos question.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think that any dancer should have more than two.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're gonna do two, they should be very different.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh give me a jazz and give me a ballet.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: Give me a lyrical, give me a musical theater, give me a tap, give me a hip hop.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care what it is, but a lyrical in a jazz, a lyrical in a contemporary, a lyrical in an open, a contemporary in an open is like, okay, we don't, it it's truly the same dance.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Show me the versatility.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're just trying to claim a win.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and and to be honest, the more times you come out, the lower my score gets most of the time.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I see more, I see more flaws in your technique.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, here's the third sign.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're still doing the same thing.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know you can't hear me, but I've already said this on your first solo.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so hard to remember that they can't hear you.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: We get like frustrated.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, just I told you that.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I that's my thoughts.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: I will say, like, to that point and to the many, many solos point is that I do feel like that phenomenon feels very pageanty.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, dance competitions at one point were sort of exclusive.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't for everyone.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: They were for people who really, you know, were very, very well trained.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then everybody decided this is for everyone.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I say it all the time: dance is for everyone.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Competitive dance is maybe not for everyone because not everyone wants to or needs to dance at that high of a level that many times a week to, you know, to whatever end.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and but the five or six solos per person does start to feel pageanty and you have to think about what you want for your kids.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like pageants are fine.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's but to me, trying to hit every single mark of ballet, jazz, tap, lyrical, open, contemporary hip-hop, it does feel like I just want the trophy.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want the trophy and the crown and the flowers, and I want that picture, and I want the whole room to look like that.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's sort of what it seems like to me, especially when, like Courtney said, you're not showing me the clear genre.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm happy, like she said, to see two solos if they are completely different, because then my critiques can be different.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Then I can tell you more actionable items as opposed to your lyrical contemporary and open solo.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you did that devile pay tilt every single time to the right, but you were wobbly and you're not pulling up on your art.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're gonna get the same critique if you show me the same dance.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: And with that mention of is competitive dance for everyone, I I agree that there are.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's competitive dance doesn't necessarily have to be.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that we've allowed it to be.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: But for me as a judge who grew up in this world as a competitive dancer my whole life, you know, in the 90s and the early 2000s, I still have an expectation for what I expect from a competitive dancer and the studios that are choosing to compete at competition, whether you're entering in the beginner recreational all the way up to the advanced, there's still an expectation when it comes to what type of uh what you're presenting on stage.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is it clean enough?
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is it even ready for stage yet?
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it just ready for a recital?
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, did you think about presentation?
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Did you are are your shoe tights matching your shoes?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Are you is your the hair slicked?
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like just standard expectations to get on a competitive stage versus, I mean, all stages should have a very similar expectation, but that has felt very relaxed.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, they're just beginner.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, but they're competitive dancers.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: They all pay the same entropy to get here.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they're the level of expectation needs to be the same across the board and things that we're in control of.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's yes, I understand you don't dance as many hours as someone else, but you can still give a can focus on cleaning your routine and maybe we scale it back and edit it a little bit and not put all these tricks that you think you need because they're not even ready for it anyway, and give me a clean routine that makes sense for a beginner age nine jazz dance.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I have the a specific expectation if you're choosing to be competitive.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I I like to stress the importance of that because I think that sometimes I'm like, like, did we show up for competition today?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's going on?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's holes in tights and things that like could have been avoidable.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or tights at all.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's you know, but that's all I know.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have enough time for that conversation.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have time for one more question before we have to wrap.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, come a new friend.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: New friend over here.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the question is tights versus no tights.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: Shoes versus no shoes.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we're gonna lay, we're gonna lay it out here right now.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, so I'm Leslie.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: I work for Capezio.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: We sell shoes.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: And tights, yes.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so listen, I'm we're we're similar ages.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of us are similar ages.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up dancing in the 90s, early 2000s.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we wore shoes.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: We wore two shoes.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: We did very well.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: We did very well.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, there were professional dancers, acro people, people who did difficult skills in tights and two shoes.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: The stage was the same.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: Marley hasn't changed.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for me, I'm perfectly fine if you dance barefoot.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Perfectly fine.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was not a modern dancer.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: I went to OCU for college.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: We are musical theater dancers first.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: We had to wear shoes.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was also a requirement for that school, by the way, if you want to send anybody to that school.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, barefoot's fine.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: Perfectly fine.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: One shoe is not fine because nobody in the world is gonna pay you to wear one shoe.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: Ever.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: And as Courtney mentioned earlier, and I've said many times again, dances for everybody.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: We should be preparing every dancer, beginner, recreational, intermediate, adult, anybody, for at least the expectation that perhaps you might go on to get paid to do this.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because you never know.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, little Sally Sue, who's a hot mess when she's five, might go on to be a Broadway star.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: You just don't know.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I would hate for somebody to have been trained in a way or been given, you know, the okay to wear one shoe or whatever it is, and then go into a situation where that is unacceptable and be dismissed because they didn't have the proper information.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, that is my opinion on that.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: Am I taking off points if you're wearing one shoe?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to say it.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say it.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, also buy two shoes because there's two of them.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you only wear the one, you got the one shoe in your bag and you spent the money on the one shoe.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like two shoes, y'all.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: I am taking off a point.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh either a half or a full pending, if what I'm allowed to do.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I do, and I always say it, and I say in the critique, I'm sorry, but I'm taking a point off.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't, your costume's too pretty to have one shoe on.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's no excuse that you can give me.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: We did a whole episode this season on two shoes, no shoes, or one shoe.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm also, if you took my class yesterday, you probably noticed that I was bare feet taking taking my jazz class.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: I do do jazz and bare feet these days.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: I am not opposed to a jazz shoe, though.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I love a jazz shoe.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: I am here for it.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it is a part.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a professional.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: I can choose what I put on my foot now, right?
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: But like as training dancers, I think it's important for dancers to experience dancing in every type of shoe.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: They can't just be bare feet, they can't just wear a turner for every style.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: I had every shoe, I mean it's expensive, but I had every shoe in my dance bag, every color, depending what the costume was.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's just what it was back in the day.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: And now we've gotten away from that, and that is fine.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: Costume your dancers based on the shoe requirement that you need them to have that so it makes sense.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they get to dance in a shoe.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's very important.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, we can't we have to stop with the one shoe phenomenon.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, it's ridiculous and crazy.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't even know where it started.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: And as far as tights goes, I am a supporter of tights.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love a fishnet tight.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love um, I love a polished look on stage.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love, I love a bare leg as well.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: I love no tights as long as the goods are covered.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: If the goods are covered, I am fine with it.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: It the costume needs to fit them properly.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: We need to use butt glue.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: We need to have tape.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I should not be turning my head because something's about to fall out and expose.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to remember how close we are as judges when we're sitting so close.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we gotta make sure everything's groomed properly too.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: We are down here, they're up there.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: I am seeing a crotch.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like angles for choreography, like, need to also enhance the dancers.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times I can tell that we haven't even thought about what type of what this angle is gonna look like in that costume because you're they're in a legging at and they're doing a crotch shot till and they didn't flatten it out, or maybe we just change it to this angle so the leg's going up here, so the crotch angle is that way instead of the crotch angle this way, because they don't have the rotation to flatten it out.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like those things to think about because then they're in a tight, and like I've even heard the craziness of some studios don't even allow their dancers to wear undergarments underneath that they're their no tight costume.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: So then it can get really sticky and uh a little bit tricky with what under stage lights and things.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we gotta think about those things.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta protect the dancers and set them up.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm here for no tights as long as it is safe and and and done well.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: But it I'm also a I love a shoe, I love a tight.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love it all, except for one shoe.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't that note, and on that note, I am so sad to say that it flew by.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: An hour's time has flown by.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you everyone for being here and making the impact.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: Please give a listen.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you enjoyed our live podcast recording from the 2025 Dance Teacher Web Conference and Expo in Las Vegas, Nevada.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you to all of the teachers who attended our live recording and to Steve and Andy for sponsoring this episode.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: Mark your calendars.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: The Dance Teacher Web Conference and Expo is back in Vegas next season, August 6th through the 9th, 2026, with so many seminars, movement classes, and the exhibition hall featuring your favorite dance brands.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Learn more on their website and register now at Dance Teacher Summer Expo.com.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want more exclusive episodes, support our podcast by joining our Platinum Premium membership for only$5 a month.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: Join now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: Coming up next on season seven of Making the Impact, stay tuned for an episode all about solos, our first throwback episode, and how to become a convention assistant.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: See you next week for another great episode.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, keep dancing.