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94. When the Animals Lead: Animal Communication, Horses & Constellations with Anthea Myburgh · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Kia ora, and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:03
  Tracy: I'm your host, Tracey Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators from, and clients from around the world.
• 0:13
  Tracy: Looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:34
  Tracy: Kia ora, everyone.
• 0:35
  Tracy: Welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:37
  Tracy: Today, I have the pleasure of chatting with Anthea Myburgh from South Africa.
• 0:43
  Tracy: Welcome, Anthea.
• 0:45
  Anthea: Thank you.
• 0:45
  Anthea: Lovely to be here, and thank you for the invitation.
• 0:48
  Anthea: I'm very
• 0:49
  Tracy: excited.
• 0:49
  Tracy: Oh, it's, it's a pleasure.
• 0:51
  Tracy: We met a few years ago online, and, um, and you've always been there in the back of my mind.
• 0:55
  Tracy: And when I was, like, thinking,"Oh, who would I like to invite now?" I was like, "Oh, gee, I'll reach out to Anthea." Oh, thank you.
• 1:01
  Tracy: So I'd love for you to introduce yourself a little bit so that the listeners and the viewers can learn a bit more about you.
• 1:09
  Anthea: Okay, great.
• 1:10
  Anthea: So hi.
• 1:10
  Anthea: Hi, everybody.
• 1:11
  Anthea: Um, so I am first and foremost an animal communicator, and I'd like to say the animals brought me into the world of constellations through seeking my own healing.
• 1:23
  Anthea: And, um- Mm … if I, if I look back, um, on the years of the very non-linear, um, my, my life has always been very much, um, engaged and, um, f- I, I, I feel I do follow, like, guided by the animals.
• 1:41
  Anthea: And, um, I found myself going into this, all this constellation training and everything else, and, um, before I knew it, I was given this blessing that I could also start doing constellations.
• 1:53
  Anthea: And I wanted to run a mile, especially at that stage that was working with horses,'cause I was just doing it for myself.
• 2:00
  Anthea: Mm. And then one day the animals said to me that, "You can't do this work without helping the people." And, um, so that… So yeah, I, I, I work with, um, energy healing with the animals as well as family constellations where I partner with my horses, and then I also work with animals all over the world with the communication and supporting bridging that gap between animals and their people for a better understanding and a better relationship, um, in whatever modality that looks like.
• 2:31
  Anthea: Um, and very much guided with, with listening to, or hopefully listening as much as possible to, to what they share.
• 2:39
  Tracy: Oh, fantastic.
• 2:41
  Tracy: Mm. And when you say the animals brought you to constellations, how did that look like?
• 2:47
  Tracy: Yeah, what was the first time you experienced it?
• 2:50
  Anthea: It was back in 2013, um, and my teacher with the animal communication, Winter Worseton, had said that the more we work on ourselves, the clearer our own inner world is and the better we can hear the messages of the animals.
• 3:03
  Anthea: And, um, I took that quite seriously and- Mm … had a lot of my own personal things, um, family dynamics and challenging, you know, family of origin challenges that were quite consuming.
• 3:17
  Anthea: And I went to a guy called Neil Campbell, um, who, um, is in South Africa, and it was mind-blowing.
• 3:26
  Anthea: It, um, really showed me where I had everything misperceived.
• 3:31
  Anthea: But it was this- Mm … this gentle, maybe not so gentle, that I, I just knew I needed to go back.
• 3:36
  Anthea: And, um, the work just blew me away, and I started seeing how the constellation work, the communication work, all of it comes together that might be different, that all roads lead to Rome, depending if it's a path or a highway or a, a bit of a, a lost track.
• 3:55
  Anthea: Um, and I feel very guided.
• 3:58
  Anthea: There's a sense sometimes with my team of animals that I really need to do something.
• 4:03
  Anthea: And, um, and yeah, m- without trying to defer my own path, I feel that mine is one that is very much supported with the guidance of my non-human team.
• 4:15
  Anthea: Um…
• 4:16
  Tracy: Mm. Fantastic.
• 4:19
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 4:19
  Tracy: And you work with the horses.
• 4:21
  Tracy: Now, I, I ha- there is someone here in New Zealand, Jenny, um, Gibbons, who works with horses as well.
• 4:28
  Tracy: So I'd love to hear how you work with them because I'm sure that, like constellations, we all have our own style, right?
• 4:34
  Tracy: So how- Exactly … how do you work with the horses in, in the constellation?
• 4:37
  Anthea: So with them, I very much, um, let them lead, but I don't… I see them as representatives.
• 4:45
  Anthea: As you say, everybody has their own flavor.
• 4:48
  Anthea: So if I'm working in a one-on-one dynamic, um, I do bring in the, the understanding, um, that everything is communicating.
• 4:58
  Anthea: So it's not just the horses.
• 4:59
  Anthea: Mm-hmm.
• 4:59
  Anthea: It's to pay attention to the environment.
• 5:01
  Anthea: If an eagle flies over and catches your attention, depending on the person, also I sometimes bring in the medicine wheel, so working with the, the cardinal directions.
• 5:11
  Anthea: And letting the horses show and supporting that person to connect.
• 5:16
  Anthea: So it… I wouldn't call it the very traditional family constellations, but it's very much rooted in that, and then following what, um, what, what's guided in the field.
• 5:28
  Anthea: Um, when I work in a group, um, like a workshop environment, I will also use the people as representation.
• 5:36
  Anthea: So there's that balance with having a bit of human input, um, and then the horses coming in to support and letting them, um- Mm … bring in that extra layer and depth.
• 5:48
  Anthea: And often also if somebody's working with something really big, that with them just connecting, being able to touch the horse, um, I encourage touching, like absent of brushes and things, so that they can really connect, um, and feel that connection again, that reconnection.
• 6:07
  Anthea: And the horses, I mean, I know my horses really well, and it's always blows my mind how different they are with before any, any time I've seen a person.
• 6:18
  Anthea: Um, it, it always blows me away.
• 6:22
  Anthea: Um-
• 6:22
  Tracy: Do you have, like, one horse that's maybe more heart lead and another one that's more- Of a leader, or… Anthea: I do, although I find I've got- Mm … one horse that does seem to come forward a lot more and a lot more of that outward energy where my mare definitely carries more of that maternal, motherly energy.
• 6:49
  Tracy: Um, for a few years my other horses were somewhere else, and they've actually just, my whole little herd has come back and I've got two miniatures, a, a mom and foal.
• 6:58
  Tracy: And, um, they've always brought this elem- or the mother has always brought this element of, of holding and supporting that, um, I call it the, the little people, but it feels like some- if someone's working with an inner child it might resonate, they might resonate there.
• 7:16
  Tracy: Um- Mm-hmm … but the roles I do find are quite interchangeable, um- Yeah
• 7:23
  Anthea: with them.
• 7:24
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 7:25
  Tracy: And I know that you have, um, other animals.
• 7:29
  Tracy: Are they part of the constellations as well, or just the horses?
• 7:32
  Anthea: They can be.
• 7:33
  Anthea: I've got a, um, a kitty cat who will show her face for cat people only, and there have been times when she has appeared and there's been a resonance with the person, um, whether she's represented something like her, her jaguar cousins, um, of the wild, or just representing that, um, that feline energy.
• 7:56
  Anthea: Um, and the dogs, I've had a bit of a change in my pack lately, but, um, my dogs have always also held, um, a space there with- Mm … with, um, with representation.
• 8:09
  Anthea: Or bringing in the joyful side.
• 8:11
  Anthea: If something's quite serious, um, the little guy that's sitting with me now will, will go into a spat of zoomies or run around and do something.
• 8:20
  Anthea: Not trying to get in our way, but it's almost like this peripheral, burning that extra energy.
• 8:27
  Anthea: Um- Yeah … and yeah.
• 8:29
  Anthea: Mm. And then it's the, the, the wildlife.
• 8:31
  Anthea: I mean, I, we do have the buzzards who I c- for their, they're the representation of the eagles.
• 8:37
  Anthea: They'll, you won't see one until the person's flying o- like they fly over at that point moment.
• 8:43
  Anthea: And sometimes we have the fish eagle, and that's very rare, but they- they've called also at the right moment.
• 8:51
  Anthea: So it really always feels like- Mm … the whole of nature is, is- Mm … having their voice, or the wind will appear at a moment.
• 8:59
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 9:00
  Tracy: I remember being in a community and, um, and we're in this, a place called the Wharanui, which is- Where we were doing the constellation.
• 9:09
  Tracy: And only the client, or the seeker, and I heard this dog, which was … There was a bit of a dip in the valley, and then there was a … And it was on the other side.
• 9:20
  Tracy: And it was barking at us, barking at us, barking at-
• 9:23
  Anthea: Oh, my.
• 9:23
  Tracy: And her and I heard it.
• 9:25
  Tracy: Nobody else even- Wow … noticed it.
• 9:28
  Tracy: But it was really part of the constellation.
• 9:30
  Tracy: Like, it just felt like the ancestors were saying, "Brr," on the other side.
• 9:35
  Tracy: So yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it?
• 9:36
  Tracy: That's amazing.
• 9:37
  Tracy: How they, how the, the winged, the four-leggeds and the, the many-leggeds all come in to be part of- Absolutely … the
• 9:44
  Anthea: work.
• 9:44
  Anthea: You, you just can't make it up.
• 9:46
  Tracy: No.
• 9:46
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 9:47
  Tracy: Mm. Exactly.
• 9:48
  Tracy: Mm. I just- Now, you shared a little bit in our brief about, um, the orders of love.
• 9:55
  Anthea: Yes.
• 9:56
  Tracy: The connection with the animals and the humans in the orders of love.
• 10:00
  Tracy: Want to share a little bit more about that?
• 10:02
  Anthea: Yes, absolutely.
• 10:03
  Anthea: So, um, so these orders of love and just to repeat them for the conversation being the, the hierarchy, the inclusion, and the fair trade.
• 10:13
  Anthea: And as I was learning more about them, I started finding that my work, if we were dealing with, um, a, an issue where there's a behavioral issue, and I found the animals pushing me almost to sort of look at the bigger dynamic.
• 10:30
  Anthea: And seeing that when these things were out of balance with what the animals were showing in a behavior that was getting the attention of their people, 9 out of 10 times and probably more 9.9, um, it had to do with where there was an imbalance.
• 10:48
  Anthea: So for example, I remember once working with these dogs that were digging up the garden and, um, they kept showing that they wanted to go out and be part of more walks and everything, that their, their expectation was to be guard dogs.
• 11:03
  Anthea: They were in an area where they had a lot of space, but for them it wasn't enough.
• 11:08
  Anthea: So their way of showing that was through digging up and pulling out more plants that they wanted.
• 11:14
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 11:14
  Anthea: And when the dogs started going on walks, that behavior started balancing out again.
• 11:21
  Anthea: Yeah, so, so that was… that, that's an example of, of, of the, um, the fair trade.
• 11:28
  Anthea: You can see it also with, um, horses that might be working more with, with a competitive mindset and, um, them asking for that balance of, "Hey, I need a little bit of, like, connection time." Yeah.
• 11:41
  Anthea: Go for a walk and let's just go for a graze or something.
• 11:44
  Anthea: Um, and they'll find when bringing in that that the horse isn't going to run away anymore because there's that balance.
• 11:51
  Anthea: He's not just being seen as, let's go and do our practice for whatever.
• 11:56
  Anthea: And then, um, the inclusion.
• 11:59
  Anthea: A lot of behavioral issues, especially when you have interdynamics with introducing cats, for example, or cats and dogs into a new home and then the one wants to eat the other one and, um, everything gets a little bit pressured.
• 12:15
  Anthea: And then one starts getting locked away and the other one gets favored and, um, another one gets locked outside.
• 12:23
  Anthea: And I mean, a, a more recent case I worked with where there was a dynamic like this where the, where the dog was being locked out and there was a bit of an aggression with the, with the one child.
• 12:34
  Anthea: And what the animal shared was the fact that they had always been part of the family and now they were being isolated and isolated with the, the person's best intentions 'cause it was a situation that they didn't know how to cope and they were fearful of the dog hurting their daughter.
• 12:52
  Anthea: Mm. And the daughter was showing those fear things, and there was this entanglement.
• 12:57
  Anthea: And even though my, my work, it was a, a, a in-person visit, is the com- communication, I kind of felt that grandmother energy.
• 13:07
  Anthea: And feeling that, and when it feels appropriate, I, I, uh, encourage a meditation to bring in that, or I just work with it myself with the,"I can see you." Um, and, um, with them understanding that they couldn't exclude the dog and, uh, showing what the dog was showing to help to, to, um, to make them part of the family again, that situation just diffused and, um, and yeah, th- things worked better.
• 13:38
  Tracy: Oh,
• 13:38
  Anthea: fantastic.
• 13:40
  Anthea: And, yeah.
• 13:40
  Anthea: And then with the hierarchy, which is a huge one, you get a new puppy.
• 13:44
  Anthea: It's overexuberant and, you know, let's feed the puppy first because the puppy's bouncing around and Mr.
• 13:49
  Anthea: Old Dog is getting grumpy because he's used to getting his food first.
• 13:54
  Anthea: And then there can possibly be some antagonism because puppy's being favored because he's bouncing around like a mad thing, so always getting the attention.
• 14:03
  Anthea: But actually taking that time to- quieten puppy or get someone to help you feed the older animals first keeps that hierarchy.
• 14:13
  Anthea: If you look in the wild, um, the, the, the, the pups don't eat first, they eat last.
• 14:18
  Anthea: Um, and it's bringing that in, and that does change dynamics, and it, it's, it was one of the most profound ones for me was also starting to, I did it with my own animals, um, and I encourage people to do it, is looking at animals and feeling them in their hearts in the order that they came into their family, irrespective of whether they live with them or not.
• 14:41
  Anthea: And, and that settles things because then nobody has to fight for their place.
• 14:45
  Anthea: Mm. And the puppy isn't displacing.
• 14:48
  Anthea: Um, so I work a lot with that, um, and find it just really helps.
• 14:55
  Tracy: That's great, hey.
• 14:55
  Tracy: And, and animals tend to, like, it's quite instant for them, isn't it?
• 15:00
  Tracy: Like, once that shift is there, they don't, 'cause they don't have any of the, the restrictions that the humans might have.
• 15:06
  Anthea: Well, exactly.
• 15:07
  Anthea: I mean, this- Yeah … this thing with the orders of love is, it took me, like, a step further is like we start looking at where do we belong?
• 15:15
  Anthea: And if we look at the evolution, we actually came last.
• 15:18
  Anthea: Mm. And, um, and yet we, we are acting like the older ones.
• 15:23
  Anthea: Um, so perhaps when we can start finding our place, um, and- Yeah and really feeling, you know, the animals have something to teach us, and the earth has something to teach us, and the water is always listening, that, um-
• 15:40
  Tracy: What, what's the most unusual animal that you've worked with?
• 15:43
  Tracy: 'Cause, um, you know, you're in a country where there's a lot of unusual animals for us.
• 15:48
  Tracy: For a start, we don't have buzzards Don't
• 15:50
  Anthea: know if I'd… That's it.
• 15:51
  Anthea: Worked with as in, um, so I mean, we, a lot of my training was also working with the global white lions.
• 15:59
  Anthea: So that was lovely working with this lion energy of these sacred beings that are also, it's through, um, Linda Tucker's, um, Global White Lion Protection, um, organization.
• 16:11
  Anthea: So it's done in a way that these animals are being revered from inception, and they're very much part of the project and have a, have a voice.
• 16:21
  Anthea: And working with beings like that that carry the wildness, but also- Mm … this technology of helping us to remember.
• 16:29
  Anthea: The, working with them is very profound.
• 16:31
  Anthea: Um, I wanna say I've worked with some tortoises before, and it's a very different energy.
• 16:37
  Anthea: It's a much quieter energy, um, much more grounded and I c- I can even feel my voice going slower.
• 16:44
  Anthea: But, you know, we work with a heart technology, so it's, whether you're connecting with the land or with a tree, it's that frequency of the heart and that vibration.
• 16:56
  Anthea: Mm. And from my years of doing this, I feel that these different beings also help us to remember what's important.
• 17:04
  Anthea: Mm. 'Cause we can get so wrapped up in the, the peopleness of everything, that we forget the non-linear of time and-
• 17:12
  Tracy: Mm
• 17:12
  Anthea: patience and- Yeah … um, and that surrendering.
• 17:16
  Anthea: I, I, I feel that the work of the constellations with where it's so much of encouraging us to step out of the way to let the field work, um, is also very complimentary with the animals.
• 17:29
  Anthea: 'Cause how often does everybody wanna fall in and just help an animal, where it's like, hang on, we, we actually missing the animal in that.
• 17:38
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 17:38
  Tracy: And their evolution too, isn't it?
• 17:41
  Anthea: Exactly.
• 17:42
  Anthea: And their choice to walk alongside of us.
• 17:45
  Anthea: It's-
• 17:45
  Tracy: I was thinking about my cat when you were talking about that.
• 17:48
  Tracy: I was thinking, and you were talking about the heart energy, 'cause often- I will pet him and, and, you know, my hands get activated and this energy starts pouring out of me and, and in my heart, and I'm, like, petting.
• 18:01
  Tracy: And, and I feel him, I feel the shift in him, like, goes into ninja mode.
• 18:07
  Tracy: And, and I feel it run through me, and then he just looks at me.
• 18:09
  Tracy: And he'll probably bite me or he'll get up and run away.
• 18:14
  Tracy: It's like, am I too much for you, cat?
• 18:17
  Tracy: I don't know.
• 18:18
  Tracy: The dog loves it.
• 18:19
  Tracy: The cat, it's seems to freak him out a little bit.
• 18:23
  Anthea: On our terms is probably what the cat's saying.
• 18:25
  Anthea: My cat does similar
• 18:27
  Tracy: to- Oh, everything's on his terms, totally… Anthea: absolutely.
• 18:30
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:30
  Tracy: It's like, "Back off, human.
• 18:31
  Tracy: You've learnt these skills.
• 18:32
  Tracy: That's great.
• 18:33
  Tracy: Just, like, tone it down a little bit.
• 18:35
  Tracy: Work on the dog." The other day, 'cause when I had my tooth out the other day, sitting on the couch, and he came over and he sat.
• 18:42
  Tracy: And he actually put his le- his hand out and was, like, leaning on me, and I'm like… I was taking photos 'cause I was like, "Nobody's gonna believe me," because he doesn't do this.
• 18:52
  Tracy: The only o- any other time has been when I've been very unwell, you know, like if I've had a virus or, or something, which doesn't happen very often.
• 18:59
  Tracy: But it's like, otherwise, like, he's, he's over there and I'm over here.
• 19:05
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 19:05
  Tracy: Generally.
• 19:06
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 19:06
  Anthea: But they know.
• 19:07
  Anthea: They know when to come.
• 19:08
  Anthea: Mm. I mean, cats are master healers, and- Mm … they know when to come when it's like, okay, now she needs a bit of help here.
• 19:15
  Anthea: And let's do it on, on their terms.
• 19:19
  Anthea: Um, I-
• 19:20
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 19:20
  Tracy: I… Yeah, he would come in sometimes when I've had clients, um, like if I've got them on the table and I'm doing some energy work or something, and, and sometimes I'll say, "I can see the cat's about to jump on you.
• 19:33
  Tracy: Are you okay with this?" And then, you know, generally, yes.
• 19:36
  Tracy: I think I may have had one person say,"I'd rather not." And one time I was, I, I… By this time I was at the person's feet, and the cat was all there, and then he sort of sat up and he looked around.
• 19:47
  Tracy: Yeah, I think we were sitting on her tummy or something.
• 19:50
  Tracy: And then he just, he got off and he went over to my window, and he, he reached up and he touched a couple, a crystal and then another crystal, and he looked at me, and I said, "Do I put them where you've just been lying, do I?" And, and he just kind of looked at me, and then sort of out he goes.
• 20:07
  Tracy: So I took the crystals and I placed them where the cat had been lying.
• 20:10
  Tracy: Obviously, he had another mission to go on, so.
• 20:13
  Anthea: Aw.
• 20:14
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 20:14
  Anthea: That's incredible.
• 20:15
  Anthea: It was- Like, partnering like that, I mean, we just can't make it up.
• 20:20
  Tracy: I know.
• 20:21
  Tracy: I know.
• 20:21
  Anthea: One, one of my first spiritual teachers many years ago, she was… I used to go to her for body alignment, and she used to have a dog and a cat.
• 20:31
  Anthea: And depending on who was coming in, she would always say, "The cats absorb the negative energy and the dogs bring in the joy." And, um, something I never forgot.
• 20:41
  Anthea: That's-
• 20:42
  Tracy: Mm, I can see your dog in the reflection.
• 20:44
  Tracy: Obviously, your, um, your horse farrier has arrived, hey?
• 20:49
  Anthea: Is it all right?
• 20:50
  Anthea: He should hopefully settle soon.
• 20:52
  Anthea: I, I can
• 20:53
  Tracy: put him on a- I c- I can't hear him.
• 20:54
  Tracy: The Zoom is very kindly blocking him out, so mm.
• 20:58
  Anthea: Good.
• 21:00
  Anthea: He'll, he'll settle when he's in the paddock, so sorry about that.
• 21:04
  Tracy: Oh, that's all good.
• 21:05
  Tracy: All good.
• 21:05
  Tracy: It's part of it, right?
• 21:06
  Tracy: This is, you know, it's not about perfection.
• 21:09
  Tracy: It's about we've all got our lives.
• 21:11
  Tracy: Mm.
• 21:12
  Anthea: Exactly, and the horses all need their paddock in.
• 21:15
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 21:16
  Tracy: So the listeners and the viewers don't know this, so last night you and I were tr- were going to have a meeting last night, and then, um, unfortunately you'd had a really big power cut.
• 21:26
  Tracy: And so, yeah, it wasn't, um, it wasn't gonna be viable energetically wise and, and stuff, but we did get to have a little bit of a conversation, and we both had a, had a realization that both of us had had a tooth out in the last few days.
• 21:45
  Tracy: And then we realized it was the same tooth on the same side, which was fascinating.
• 21:51
  Tracy: And then you said something to me about the teeth and ancestors.
• 21:55
  Tracy: I'd love for you to branch out a little bit more on that.
• 22:00
  Tracy: To share a little bit more
• 22:01
  Anthea: Hey, I just love the synchronicity of everything.
• 22:04
  Anthea: Mm-hmm.
• 22:04
  Anthea: We just make it up.
• 22:06
  Anthea: Uh, and teeth, I mean, for me it feels it's the first way of how we take in nourishment and how- Mm-hmm how we process something.
• 22:16
  Anthea: And understanding the, on, in the natural world, the, the rocks are the bones of the earth, and we have these bones and the teeth and this connection.
• 22:28
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 22:28
  Tracy: And
• 22:29
  Anthea: the memories that they form with, that give us shape.
• 22:32
  Anthea: And, um, my understanding is that teeth are linked to our ancestral connection.
• 22:41
  Anthea: I mean, they're obviously linked to every meridian in our body, and we are our ancestors, so it's taking in how, how to metabolize how we… I mean, both of us have had the left side, so bring in awareness of the feminine side.
• 23:00
  Anthea: And I guess you got to bring in a little bit of the pain.
• 23:03
  Anthea: Um, in what way are we processing that or allowing to release that, um, 'cause isn't everything energy?
• 23:11
  Anthea: And without trying to wax lyrical, an, an, an abscess, that isn't very nice, but is there not also a message in that for us?
• 23:20
  Anthea: Um- Mm-hmm … with clearing, whether it's taking better care of ourselves, um, what we, what we do with, with how we, how we chew life and take on.
• 23:32
  Anthea: I mean, if you think of a dog, they'll bite at the back to get a better grip to hold on.
• 23:38
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 23:38
  Anthea: Mm-hmm.
• 23:38
  Anthea: I think there's a lot that we miss when we don't dive too deeply.
• 23:43
  Anthea: And I know not- Mm-hmm … everybody wants to, so that's also, um-
• 23:47
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 23:48
  Tracy: Yeah, I definitely- Yeah … notice, you know, like, the connection in the body from the tooth to everything else.
• 23:54
  Tracy: Even, like-
• 23:54
  Anthea: Exactly… Tracy: down to the pain in my since I had the tooth removed.
• 24:00
  Anthea: It's amazing.
• 24:01
  Tracy: I know.
• 24:02
  Tracy: It's really fabulous.
• 24:03
  Tracy: And
• 24:03
  Anthea: was it, was it also your left big toe?
• 24:06
  Tracy: No, it's my right.
• 24:07
  Tracy: But… And I said this to a friend of mine, and she said it's because at some point, that meridian crosses over.
• 24:13
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 24:13
  Tracy: When it gets lower down in the body, past the large intestine, it, that meridian crosses over the body, so,
• 24:19
  Anthea: mm.
• 24:19
  Anthea: Yeah, it does.
• 24:21
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 24:21
  Anthea: And you have that referral pain, like you pick it… I pick it up a lot with the animals.
• 24:25
  Anthea: You'll feel a, a left sore hip can sometimes stem from a right weakness, um, in the front.
• 24:32
  Anthea: Mm.
• 24:32
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 24:32
  Anthea: That, um, cross lines.
• 24:35
  Tracy: Fascinating.
• 24:36
  Tracy: Wow.
• 24:36
  Tracy: How do you describe what you do?
• 24:38
  Tracy: Like, how do you describe constellations?
• 24:42
  Tracy: And it, and what you do with the animal communication, I suppose.
• 24:45
  Anthea: Struggles.
• 24:46
  Anthea: It's, I mean, animal communication people understand.
• 24:50
  Anthea: Um, and then often I'll ask the animals for help depending on who I'm speaking with.
• 24:58
  Anthea: But because when somebody's come in for an animal communication, they haven't really thought much further about the connections with the ancestors and that Fido could be representing something.
• 25:10
  Anthea: Um, so I find if we're working with something that, um… Like, how do I describe?
• 25:17
  Anthea: I'm avoiding your question.
• 25:18
  Anthea: It's basically looking at, um, the energetics of a situation and hearing them and, and just helping to, to see what they would want to, what they can suggest to, to bring in, into the situation and help.
• 25:34
  Anthea: It can often be that supporting the person, or to also see- To also see- The
• 25:43
  Tracy: dog's coming in for a conversation.
• 25:45
  Anthea: He is.
• 25:46
  Anthea: He's like, "Come on, let me out.
• 25:46
  Anthea: There's people in the yard and you're still talking." That dynamic of there's a problem with my dog, what's gonna fix it, and it's not my problem.
• 25:58
  Anthea: In that, that thing that… You know, where, where communication, I feel, illuminates when somebody's ready that it's much more than that, that they also hold a responsibility.
• 26:09
  Anthea: Mm-hmm.
• 26:09
  Anthea: Um, and that by little shifts on their side, it has big shifts on the animal's side.
• 26:16
  Anthea: And that the more that they look after themselves, the more they support the animal by not even trying.
• 26:23
  Anthea: Um-
• 26:24
  Tracy: Yeah… Anthea: and that's a, So I guess the short answer is it depends on who I'm speaking with, and I always ask for guidance of the animals and how.
• 26:35
  Tracy: But I do find it, um, always a challenge.
• 26:38
  Tracy: Like, even with the horses, I, I lately I just say that I'm, I do equine assisted healing, and if somebody wants to know more, then I'll say we, we recognize that our, our ancestors are, are very much part of us and, um, that reconnection back to our heart and- Mm
• 26:55
  Anthea: what's needed to, to soften things for us to be able to live in more harmony with ourselves.
• 27:01
  Tracy: Nice.
• 27:02
  Tracy: It is a difficult one, isn't it?
• 27:03
  Tracy: When you're talking with someone who doesn't have, who isn't on the, maybe on the same wavelength.
• 27:08
  Tracy: Or is just totally new to it, and then you've come along and you're trying to, to put it into layman's terms, I suppose, would be the- Best way to describe it sometimes.
• 27:20
  Tracy: Mm.
• 27:21
  Anthea: It is, and often, I mean, it's… I always set the intention of the animal sharing in a way best that their person can understand.
• 27:31
  Anthea: And I, if they're open to it, I do a meditation with them with their animal, which helps them to connect and them to connect- Mm … with that.
• 27:41
  Anthea: 'Cause at the end of the day, I'm, I'm just a channel,
• 27:43
  Tracy: a vessel.
• 27:43
  Tracy: So when you're doing a constellation with someone, and you're doing it with the animals… Oh, sorry, and maybe the horses are involved in it.
• 27:52
  Tracy: Do you do, do you run workshops and you do individuals as well?
• 27:57
  Tracy: Or how does it work?
• 27:58
  Anthea: I do.
• 27:58
  Anthea: I stalled a bit on workshops.
• 28:00
  Anthea: I'm gonna be starting again now in, uh… We're coming to the end of, well, it's been a very long spring, so, um, going into summer, um, with my, all my horses have come together now for three and a half weeks.
• 28:12
  Anthea: So I'm just letting those energies and, I mean, they, they're settled, but I just want there to be a little bit more landing, especially for the two newcomers, and then I'm gonna be offering more workshops.
• 28:23
  Anthea: I'd stopped doing, um, in-person ones for a bit because, um, life has been life.
• 28:29
  Anthea: And then I do online animal communication workshops where I bring in a little bit of the family constellations, just sharing the orders of love and, and that.
• 28:38
  Anthea: Um, but I work a lot online as well.
• 28:42
  Anthea: Um, so predominantly with the communication, but also if somebody wants a, a family constellation- Oh, nice … then I'll do that.
• 28:50
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 28:51
  Tracy: So you use… I'm just trying to visualize how you do that with the horses.
• 28:54
  Anthea: Not with the horses then, no.
• 28:55
  Anthea: I- I've tried to figure it out, and I just got… It's too much.
• 28:58
  Anthea: Um, so I'll work with little dolls or representation if it's online.
• 29:03
  Anthea: Um-
• 29:03
  Tracy: Mm.
• 29:04
  Anthea: No.
• 29:04
  Anthea: I decided that the horses, it's easier just doing it, um, like, with in-person people, otherwise it becomes- Yeah … a tech nightmare.
• 29:15
  Tracy: I did have, um, Jenny, who I mentioned earlier, uh, when I interviewed her, she took the f- the camera down and was facing to the woods of horses, and she had a second camera and was with me as well.
• 29:28
  Tracy: So we had this- Oh … um, this whole thing going on.
• 29:31
  Tracy: While we were talking and doing the interview, there was stuff going on for us.
• 29:36
  Tracy: It was fascinating to witness That's amazing Yeah.
• 29:39
  Tracy: Mm.
• 29:39
  Anthea: I've seen with people, it's just, I, man, I just, at this stage it's like that's not for me right now.
• 29:45
  Anthea: It's too much.
• 29:46
  Anthea: So.
• 29:47
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 29:47
  Anthea: But there is, I mean, they pick up all the frequencies.
• 29:50
  Anthea: I remember once when, when my horses were at a place where there was a lot more, and it was a workshop environment, but I was working with one person, and we had all these paddocks.
• 30:00
  Anthea: I was working, I had about six or seven horses in my, my camp, and it was just a really big process.
• 30:07
  Anthea: And in everything that happened, the horses in our paddock came and circled us, but every single horse in every paddock cantered to their closest point of the paddock where we were-
• 30:20
  Tracy: Wow… Anthea: to, to witness.
• 30:22
  Tracy: And that just blew my mind in how we can be so nuclear in the little space we work in, but how that energy is felt and responded to by those bigger herds that- Mm uh, we weren't working with them technically, but it's- They're all part of it, right?
• 30:40
  Tracy: All part of the
• 30:41
  Anthea: field.
• 30:41
  Anthea: Absolutely.
• 30:42
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 30:43
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 30:43
  Anthea: Quite literally.
• 30:44
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 30:45
  Tracy: What is one of the most memorable, um, constellations for you?
• 30:49
  Tracy: Whether it's… And, and obviously not sharing anyone's name or anything that could be, but maybe something that you've observed in a constellation that's been… Or, or if you could describe one without crossing confidentiality.
• 31:03
  Anthea: So, I mean, there's been a few, as I'm sure you have the same in your experience over the, the many years.
• 31:10
  Anthea: And the one that comes to mind is actually, was at the same venue where I mentioned now, and it was a person, it was working with family of origin, and that need to bow to the ancestors.
• 31:25
  Anthea: And, um, I, I'd had a, an older mare and a younger mare that had come forward as representation, and who happened to be mother and daughter.
• 31:35
  Anthea: Um, and this girl had gone down, and it was that process of that softening and going down.
• 31:41
  Anthea: And as she'd softened and she went down, the younger mare put a hoof on her head like that.
• 31:49
  Anthea: Nothing hard or like, I mean-
• 31:52
  Tracy: Wow… Anthea: and just held it gently, And it, it's just… And I get goosebumps now as I share it.
• 32:00
  Tracy: It just- Blew my mind.
• 32:03
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:05
  Tracy: Wow.
• 32:06
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 32:07
  Tracy: They are amazing, aren't they?
• 32:09
  Anthea: They're incredible.
• 32:10
  Anthea: They… So humbling, um, yeah.
• 32:13
  Tracy: If someone wants to get in touch with you, how would they find you?
• 32:16
  Anthea: Easiest would be, um, through either email or WhatsApp.
• 32:20
  Anthea: Um, so my website, um, I think you've got all my details.
• 32:26
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:26
  Tracy: But m- Sure … I, I always ask this question 'cause I know that people like to hear it as w- you know, like some people are audios, so they like to hear it.
• 32:33
  Anthea: So it's either email or WhatsApp is, is probably the two easiest ways.
• 32:37
  Anthea: I, I am on social media, but I've, I've been a little bit, um, dormant on social media- It's okay … the last few months.
• 32:45
  Tracy: And you have, um, is it-
• 32:46
  Anthea: Ubuntu Healing.
• 32:48
  Tracy: Ubuntu Healing.
• 32:49
  Tracy: Yes, dot
• 32:49
  Anthea: com.
• 32:49
  Tracy: Mm.
• 32:49
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 32:50
  Tracy: Can you tell me what does U- Ubuntu mean?
• 32:53
  Anthea: So ubuntu is the Zulu word for I am because you are.
• 32:59
  Anthea: Oh, yeah.
• 32:59
  Anthea: So it's seeing, seeing the divine in the other.
• 33:02
  Anthea: And, um, when I then told my constellation teacher that I, like, felt that I'm ready, I mean, this is, I think, 2017, 2018.
• 33:13
  Anthea: He goes, "Well, you need to get a name." Oh, and I'd already had a long mouth full of, full of animal communication, and I just woke up in the morning, and it was, "This is it." And it was before the name became fashionable, um, let me put it that way.
• 33:28
  Anthea: And it just felt very relevant because I work with all species.
• 33:32
  Tracy: That's great.
• 33:33
  Tracy: Thank you.
• 33:33
  Tracy: It's a lovely word, too.
• 33:34
  Tracy: And it, it has a beautiful meaning, so-
• 33:37
  Anthea: Absolutely … sounds perfect Yeah.
• 33:38
  Anthea: My understanding is that every indigenous culture has this word for we are all one.
• 33:45
  Anthea: Like,
• 33:46
  Tracy: so- Yeah.
• 33:47
  Tracy: It's, they, they all have a maybe slightly different, but it's the same, same.
• 33:52
  Tracy: Same.
• 33:52
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 33:53
  Tracy: Hey.
• 33:54
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 33:55
  Tracy: Let's just see, what else have I got?
• 33:58
  Tracy: Sometimes I have questions in the field, and sometimes I look, I've got a little list over here that I sometimes look at.
• 34:04
  Tracy: Hmm, no, nothing on there.
• 34:07
  Tracy: How has your family benefited from what you do?
• 34:10
  Anthea: A little bit challenged, I think.
• 34:12
  Anthea: Um, it's, I'm, I'm definitely not the, the one that went to university, et cetera, et cetera.
• 34:20
  Anthea: So, um, I think there's a big part of it that my mom would like to sort of be able to fully embrace and understand, but not able to.
• 34:28
  Anthea: Um, and- Are you the
• 34:29
  Tracy: psychedelic shaper, yeah?
• 34:31
  Anthea: I was gonna say it.
• 34:32
  Anthea: You took the words out of my mouth.
• 34:34
  Anthea: And I think they're all wondering when I might get a real job.
• 34:37
  Anthea: Um-
• 34:37
  Tracy: Mm-hmm
• 34:38
  Anthea: you know, this talking to animals and, you know, whether, whether it's suspect or not.
• 34:43
  Anthea: But they've also been my best teachers in that just getting on with things and not n- like, yeah, it's, it's, it's that, um, as much as we'd like to be approved of, especially by those closest to us, it's also finding that acceptance that-
• 34:59
  Tracy: Mm
• 35:00
  Anthea: it's not gonna happen.
• 35:02
  Anthea: Um- Mm … and just carrying on in spite of that
• 35:05
  Tracy: and- Take, take you as you are.
• 35:07
  Anthea: Exactly.
• 35:08
  Anthea: Exactly.
• 35:09
  Tracy: Mm. And what about the book?
• 35:11
  Anthea: The book
• 35:12
  Tracy: Got a book coming?
• 35:13
  Tracy: It,
• 35:13
  Anthea: I haven't.
• 35:14
  Anthea: Uh, there's been one I've been thinking about for many years- Hmm … but I've never actually-
• 35:17
  Tracy: I keep… I was just getting a nudge to ask you that question.
• 35:20
  Tracy: So what about the book?
• 35:21
  Tracy: So I was like-
• 35:22
  Anthea: I love that … okay.
• 35:23
  Anthea: It, it's, it's crossed my mind.
• 35:26
  Anthea: I've written many chapters in my head.
• 35:28
  Anthea: Um, I, I even got a Substack account with this, "I'm gonna start writing," but that's also been a bit dormant.
• 35:35
  Anthea: So I appreciate that nudge.
• 35:39
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:39
  Tracy: For, I think for, you know, I get, uh… I've had someone ask me that too, "I'm gonna start a book." It's like, I c- stuff will come.
• 35:47
  Tracy: It's easier if I just speak it.
• 35:49
  Tracy: If someone else would write it out for me.
• 35:51
  Tracy: That's, yeah, 'cause otherwise it's coming down too fast.
• 35:54
  Tracy: I probably just need to record myself and then go from there.
• 35:57
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:57
  Tracy: Bring that in because, uh, yeah, when the field is talking through me.
• 36:03
  Anthea: Exactly.
• 36:04
  Anthea: I'm reminded many year- a number of years ago I did a training online through lockdown and we were… Part of it was a year-long journey and, um, we had to write a thesis, and I wrote it.
• 36:16
  Anthea: I haven't read it again, but I did write it with that connection with the animals and the communication, not the communication, but I'd need to read that again.
• 36:25
  Tracy: I think that would be fascinating, you know.
• 36:27
  Tracy: And, um, and I've of- often seen your name mentioned when people are saying, "Does anyone know anyone that does constellations with animals?" And it's like immediately your name is put into the field.
• 36:40
  Tracy: So it's kind of your thing, I think.
• 36:43
  Tracy: Um-
• 36:44
  Anthea: It feels
• 36:44
  Tracy: like it … would be great.
• 36:45
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:46
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 36:47
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 36:48
  Anthea: I, I will, I appreciate the, this.
• 36:52
  Tracy: The nudge.
• 36:52
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:53
  Tracy: A reminder.
• 36:53
  Tracy: It's, it's what it is, is the field is reminding us.
• 36:56
  Tracy: It's reminding
• 36:57
  Anthea: you.
• 36:57
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 36:57
  Tracy: It's been, it's been fascinating to talk with you.
• 37:00
  Tracy: Is there anything else that you wanted to share with us before we sign off?
• 37:04
  Tracy: Like anything
• 37:04
  Anthea: that's- There's nothing that comes to mind, either.
• 37:06
  Anthea: I also just feel very grateful.
• 37:08
  Anthea: It's been lovely sitting with you and chatting.
• 37:10
  Anthea: Um-
• 37:11
  Tracy: Mm. I'm just thinking ag- as I asked you that question, like, 'cause earlier I, I'd had the thought about snake energy.
• 37:17
  Tracy: Have you worked with snakes?
• 37:19
  Anthea: I have.
• 37:20
  Anthea: Um, not necessarily with like a client dynamic, but definitely, um, I, in my own world, yes.
• 37:29
  Anthea: Um, I, I, I have had many communications with snakes.
• 37:34
  Anthea: Um, some of them asking them to leave my house.
• 37:37
  Anthea: I, um, for about 15 years now I have these little field mice that I feed on my windowsill, and, um, that's like, they're, they're my friends.
• 37:47
  Anthea: They don't have names.
• 37:48
  Anthea: They come in, they clean nut jars.
• 37:50
  Anthea: They have a little job, and they like avo skins and they get sunflower seeds, and we become friends.
• 37:56
  Anthea: But it's been many generations.
• 37:58
  Anthea: And every now and again there'll be a rat, like a baby rat, and they're rat cousins.
• 38:03
  Anthea: Unfortunately, they, I, I have a boundary, and they c- they just can't come.
• 38:08
  Anthea: And it, the only time I've ever had a snake in my house is when I have gone,"You are not welcome. You have to leave." And it took me, it happening twice over the years, but it's like the snake-
• 38:21
  Tracy: To the rat.
• 38:21
  Tracy: You said that to the rat, and then the snake came.
• 38:24
  Tracy: Ah.
• 38:24
  Anthea: Then the snake came.
• 38:25
  Anthea: Mm. And, um, yeah.
• 38:28
  Anthea: Then asking, it was a cobra the one time, and it's on my sink and everything, and a little bit close for comfort.
• 38:34
  Anthea: So, um, was working with that energy to calm them and ask them to leave.
• 38:40
  Tracy: So.
• 38:41
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 38:41
  Anthea: And they've got a beautiful energy.
• 38:43
  Anthea: Um, a very strong, um, clear, but it, it also, I know from my own experience, it was also having to work through my own fear, being a few me- like a meter and a half away from the snake that, um, wasn't wanting to stay where I was wanting him to stay.
• 38:59
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:00
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:00
  Anthea: Yeah.
• 39:00
  Tracy: Stay outside, not inside.
• 39:02
  Tracy: Well, it- We don't have snakes in New Zealand.
• 39:04
  Tracy: I think we're one of the few countries in the world that don't have snakes.
• 39:08
  Tracy: Oh.
• 39:08
  Tracy: Maybe we're the only country.
• 39:10
  Tracy: I don't know.
• 39:11
  Anthea: I wanna say, I'm trying to remember.
• 39:12
  Anthea: There's a little island.
• 39:13
  Anthea: I, I've gone completely blank now.
• 39:15
  Anthea: Um, it's Saint Helena I think might not have snakes.
• 39:20
  Tracy: We don't have snakes and we don't have- Any predators apart from humans?
• 39:26
  Tracy: Oh.
• 39:26
  Tracy: Probably dogs would be that next one.
• 39:28
  Tracy: We don't have foxes.
• 39:29
  Tracy: Oh.
• 39:30
  Tracy: Well, you definitely don't have lions and all those things.
• 39:32
  Anthea: Amazing.
• 39:33
  Anthea: And you, you're
• 39:33
  Tracy: like, I always think of the- Probably different … That's why I was thinking about the land would be very different in South Africa to New Zealand.
• 39:39
  Tracy: Very,
• 39:39
  Anthea: very different.
• 39:40
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 39:40
  Anthea: Different- For me, I always think of New Zealand as this land of water.
• 39:43
  Tracy: Well, there's plenty of it around us.
• 39:45
  Tracy: There's- Yeah … we're on a couple of islands.
• 39:48
  Tracy: Yeah, so.
• 39:49
  Anthea: Beautiful-
• 39:50
  Tracy: Mm … and
• 39:51
  Anthea: special.
• 39:52
  Tracy: Mm. Mm, fascinating, hey?
• 39:54
  Tracy: The different things.
• 39:55
  Tracy: Well, thank you so much for sharing your time with us.
• 39:59
  Tracy: Such a pleasure.
• 40:00
  Tracy: I look forward to, look forward to reading your book someday-
• 40:03
  Anthea: Yes… Tracy: in the near future.
• 40:03
  Anthea: Likewise reading yours.
• 40:05
  Tracy: Well, I have got some projects on the go, so they're not too far away from being, being brought out, we'll say.
• 40:11
  Tracy: Being revealed.
• 40:12
  Tracy: That- So-
• 40:13
  Anthea: That's exciting.
• 40:14
  Anthea: And-
• 40:14
  Tracy: It is exciting.
• 40:15
  Tracy: Uh, yeah, I love creating new things, so.
• 40:19
  Anthea: Mm. Oh, I wish you much creative flow and abundance.
• 40:23
  Tracy: Thank you.
• 40:24
  Tracy: You, too.
• 40:24
  Tracy: And, uh-
• 40:25
  Anthea: Thank you… Tracy: yeah, have a beautiful day, and, and all the creatures that are benefiting from y- being in your world.
• 40:35
  Anthea: Mm.
• 40:35
  Anthea: Thank you so much.
• 40:37
  Anthea: And thank you for you and, um, yeah, for your generous heart.
• 40:42
  Anthea: Appreciate it.
• 40:42
  Anthea: My pleasure.
• 40:43
  Tracy: Thank you for listening.
• 40:45
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 40:50
  Tracy: You'll find me at tracey.cartwright.
• 40:53
  Tracy: That's Tracey with no E .cartwright.
• 40:56
  Tracy: And, or head over to my website, traceycartwright.co.nz, and receive a free audio with a gift from your ancestors.
• 41:06
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it