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Scaling Rentals Without Breaking? Here's What Most Hosts Get Wrong · Host Planet: Airbnb, Holiday Let, and Vacation Rental Insights

0:00
Welcome to Turnover Tactics, the brand new six part series from
0:03
Host Planet and Turno. If the time between guest stays
0:07
feels like a chaotic scramble, you are not alone.
0:11
Turnover is often the biggest bottleneck in any short term
0:15
rental business. It's where reviews are won or
0:17
lost, and where profit either flows or leaks away.
0:22
Over the next 6 episodes, we're giving you the complete
0:24
professional blueprint for mastering this critical phase of
0:28
operations. We'll show you how to automate
0:30
your scheduling, guarantee quality control, and build a
0:34
reliable team so you can scale your business without the
0:37
stress. In this episode, Turno CEO Asaf
0:40
Carmen will outline why turnovers cause more stress than
0:44
just about every other part of vacation rental hosting, and
0:47
what you can do to simplify cleaning and maintenance.
0:51
Turnover Tactics is brought to you in collaboration with Turno,
0:55
the all in one cleaning and turnover management platform
0:58
built specifically for short term rental hosts.
1:01
If you've ever scrambled to find a reliable cleaner or wasted
1:05
hours managing schedules, Turno changes everything.
1:09
With their global cleaner marketplace, automated
1:12
scheduling, and real time updates, you'll never stress
1:15
about turnovers again. Whether you manage one property
1:18
or 100, Turno helps you stay guest ready effortlessly.
1:22
Simply click the link in the show notes to get started.
1:25
It's time you let Turno take over.
1:33
ASAF, thank you for joining us on Turnover Tactics.
1:37
When did you realize that turnovers are the hardest part
1:41
of vacation rental hosting? Day one of hosting, maybe hour 1
1:47
of hosting, you know, you get your first booking.
1:50
He's like, Oh my God, this is awesome, this is working.
1:53
And then you're like, oh, I guess the first time I cleaned
1:57
it myself. And then, you know, that took
2:01
just one time for me to understand it.
2:03
This is not what I signed up for.
2:05
Like this is not real estate investing, right?
2:09
I, I shouldn't be cleaning myself.
2:10
I also did a horrible job cleaning and you know, I'm, I'm
2:13
just like not a natural. Then once I got over this like
2:18
self cleaning phase, I was like, OK, let me, let me find someone
2:21
who can help me. So first I went to, you know, my
2:25
regular housekeeper, the one who was cleaning my house.
2:29
And you know, she she does a good job of cleaning, but like
2:33
the sense of urgency and criticality just isn't there.
2:38
She's like, oh, sorry, I can't come Tuesday.
2:41
And it was like, what do you mean you can't come Tuesday?
2:44
This to someone coming, you know, so, so you get over that
2:49
phase and like, OK, let me let me try and find someone who
2:52
knows what they're doing. But there really is wasn't at
2:56
the time a way to really know if someone knows what they're
3:00
doing. And then once you do find
3:03
someone who knows what they're doing, they're cleaning vacation
3:05
rental. They have the criticality in
3:07
mind. They're also one person.
3:10
So they, they get sick, their kids get sick, their cars
3:13
breakdown, there's weather, there's issues.
3:18
And then, you know, I, I finally graduated to the point you're
3:21
like, OK, I need to have a system and I need to have
3:24
multiple people and I need to have a standard practice.
3:28
And this is the only way that I'm going to make this real
3:31
estate investment somewhat passive, right?
3:36
Because if you're constantly stressing and worried or God
3:39
forbid, like actually cleaning yourself, this is not a real
3:43
estate investment. This is, you know, when you kind
3:48
of factor in your own time and the value of your time, then
3:52
your yield is actually pretty low, right?
3:56
Like this is a good business if you're not spending a lot of
3:59
time doing low value work. If you're putting your valuable
4:05
time doing the low value work, then you're cheating yourself to
4:10
think you're getting good yield, but you're actually putting in a
4:14
lot of like $15.00 an hour, $20.00 an hour of your time.
4:19
That's hopefully worth more than that into this venture, right?
4:23
So people need to be real with themselves.
4:25
Like your time is valuable, and if you're spending it doing low
4:29
value tasks, the yield you're getting is not real.
4:35
I often think about that the, the time aspect, because for a
4:38
lot of people, especially when they start out and it might be
4:41
their first investment, usually it's it's a side hustle.
4:44
It is an investment. They have a full time job as
4:46
well. And if that full time job, if
4:48
they're a lawyer or a doctor or they're a director of a company
4:53
and usually they'd be charging hundreds of dollars an hour to
4:56
be working. They don't want to be spending
4:58
three or four hours cleaning somewhere when you know their
5:01
time could be could be much better spent.
5:03
You don't. Know how many people I talked to
5:06
you that you know, they're very high income people and that, oh,
5:09
I don't trust anyone to clean my Airbnb.
5:11
Why are you working for you know, you know, fairly low wages
5:18
Just put in some more time at work.
5:20
Like if you don't trust anyone, then you shouldn't be in this
5:22
business. Put some extra hours at work and
5:25
and keep it simple. But if you want to build, you
5:28
know, a side business, that's that it's passive and you want
5:32
to scale it, you need to learn how to trust people.
5:35
You need to learn how to build systems and and automate things
5:39
and create a process that, you know, that drives itself for the
5:44
most part. You know, over the years of turn
5:47
out and and hosting, you know, came to this like philosophy of
5:51
management by exception, right? Like I, I manage by creating
5:57
processes and then, you know, observing exceptions.
6:02
When I see an exception, I try to, you know, create more
6:05
processes so that these exceptions don't happen.
6:09
And then, you know, over the time plugging more and more of
6:12
these exceptions so that you end up spending very little time on
6:19
the day-to-day, right. So, and then this is how we did
6:23
build turn around. OK, let's, let's just make sure
6:26
that we can automate everything that we can and alerts people
6:30
when there isn't, you know, an exception, right to to really
6:35
make sure that you the time that you spend, you spend creating
6:39
processes instead of like, you know, cleaning toilets.
6:45
Cleaning the toilet? Exactly.
6:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why do you think turnovers cause
6:52
more stress than just about every other part of vacation
6:56
rental hosting? Because it just happens all the
6:59
time, right? If you have a busy calendar, you
7:03
going to have easy 10 turnovers a month, right?
7:07
So that's, that's a lot of opportunities for things to go
7:11
wrong. And it's also a lot of friction.
7:15
And you can also have friction from bookings that don't even
7:18
happen. So if someone, let's say that
7:21
you, you're not using Turno and you're communicating with your,
7:24
your cleaners, someone books, you know, hey, can you come
7:31
clean at that daytime? Someone changes their booking
7:33
and you have to call them again. Then they cancel the booking
7:35
like, oh, never mind. So, you know, there's actually a
7:39
lot of mental stress just just to keep in your head and kind
7:44
of, you know, every time you get a booking, you also get this
7:47
like, you know, little zang of like cortisol of like stress
7:51
that, Oh my God, now I have to call someone, make sure they're
7:55
available. Like you don't want that.
7:58
You want it to be automated and simple.
8:01
So tell us then. I mean, you've kind of been
8:03
leading towards this that I mean, how your own experience as
8:07
a host led to you founding Turner.
8:10
What was the moment where you thought, aha, that this is what
8:13
the industry needs? So like I described, it was
8:17
really, really very quick that I realized that this is either not
8:22
for me hosting because this is very, very stressful, or that I
8:25
need to create a system to, to get this under control.
8:31
So in my training, I'm a software developer.
8:35
So you know when, when you're a developer, every problem that
8:38
you see like, oh, I can build an app that would solve this.
8:43
So this was so this this is what happened initially it was around
8:47
automating the turnover schedule.
8:52
That was the first go at it. And then once you got that under
8:58
control, we realized, well, you know, the sure, automating the
9:04
schedule is, is, is really nice, but having people to, to act on
9:10
that schedule is actually a bigger problem.
9:14
And then we went about, OK, well, let's try and build that
9:17
network. Let's try to connect all the
9:20
people to make it but apparent that who knows what they're
9:23
doing and when are they available, what is their price?
9:27
So that that's kind of became a larger issue of how do we find
9:32
people, you know, to to act on that calendar and the process.
9:40
You know, we also figured this is actually a really good
9:42
business for cleaners. You know, if they want repeat
9:48
work, it actually is a lot nicer for them to go into a house that
9:54
is not as cluttered, right? Like residential cleaning.
9:56
There's a lot of your stuff, your papers, you're like, you
10:00
know, your dirty underwear. It's just like, it's not as fun
10:03
to deal with versus vacation rentals, which are like, you
10:06
know, relatively empty, uncluttered spaces that that
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it's kind of the same thing every time.
10:14
And they're made for people to, you know, to go into themselves.
10:20
So it's like somewhat more flexible.
10:21
So, so it's kind of good business for everyone.
10:26
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I've thought often
10:28
actually, especially since getting involved in short term
10:30
rentals, that there is money in cleaning, not just short term
10:33
rental cleaning, but all sorts of cleaning.
10:35
My my next business might be something cleaning related.
10:39
Let's break it down then. What are the most common
10:42
turnover mistakes that people make when they're hosting?
10:47
So, so there is, like we said, the most terrible unforgivable
10:53
sin, which is like cleaning yourself, don't do it.
10:58
Odds are you're not that good at it.
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And also you should be doing higher value things and it and
11:08
it's also kind of ties you and your lifestyle to the guest
11:13
schedule, which is not what we got into this business for.
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So that's that's level 1 sin. Don't do that level 2 manual
11:25
communication, right. If you have to worry about
11:28
scheduling that you just doing it wrong.
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If you have one property you can use turn out for scheduling for
11:37
free. OK, take take all these hours
11:42
and stress out of your life and kind of trust a system that you
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know has done it millions of times.
11:51
So manual scheduling that's that's another sent that we've
11:55
talked about using just one vendor, right, or one cleaner
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that creates distressed. You know, people have this is
12:08
this is not like, oh, can you come every Monday at eight
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people can work around that. But if it's like, you know, it's
12:15
random days, people have commitments, they have families,
12:19
even when they they are trustworthy and consistent.
12:23
Also shit happens, right? Kids get sick, parents get sick,
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people themselves get sick, their car breakdown.
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There's, you know, traffic. There's there's things you need
12:36
to have multiple people that you can trust.
12:42
Then having a documented process, right, every clean
12:48
needs to be the same, right? But when there is variation,
12:53
then there's different outcomes. But if every clean is the same,
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you give people checklist, do ABC in this room, do ABC in the
13:03
bathroom, in the shower. You are helping your cleaners
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give you better service when you give them detailed instructions,
13:16
and you'll learn over time what's important.
13:18
You're going to get feedback from guests.
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They're going to say, you know, the towels kind of smell, so
13:24
you're like, OK, why do they smell?
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Because they probably weren't dried properly.
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What does that mean? You tell your cleaners, put the
13:32
towels on an extra cycle, right? Make sure they're really dry
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coming out. Same thing for the sheets.
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You're going to get feedback. You know that there's some kind
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of smell of mold in the bathroom.
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Make sure it's a hay open the window before you leave.
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Make sure that there's air right?
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Like keep the fans blowing like you're going to get feedback,
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incorporate it into your checklist and then you won't.
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Then you're not leaving it out to chance.
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Then you're constantly improving and you're helping your cleaners
14:07
help you deliver a better guest experience.
14:11
All fantastic tips and I am guilty of making plenty of those
14:15
mistakes, not starting off and cleaning myself.
14:18
I didn't do that. But pretty much all the other
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things I have to say, I've put them right now because I've
14:22
learned the error of my ways. But they are fantastic tips for
14:26
anybody in this game. What do you think breaks first
14:30
in relation to turnovers when you scale your property
14:34
management business and how do you potentially avoid that?
14:39
Right, so you know you have one property and we we talked about
14:42
like an ideal system. The good thing is having
14:46
multiple properties work with the same system, right?
14:49
You need to have for, you know, for your property a very good
14:52
checklist. You need to have a couple of
14:55
trusted people. And here's a good tip about if
14:57
you're going to have a, let's say two or three cleaners
14:59
against one property, you need to give each one of them a
15:03
chance to clean it. Because if you have one person
15:05
that you work with them because they're the first person you met
15:08
and you kind of like them and you just give them all the work,
15:11
but you don't give your backups any opportunity to learn one.
15:15
You don't really know if they're engage with you anymore when you
15:19
need them or when when when you do need them, you don't really
15:24
know how good they are and you have to remember your property.
15:29
So you need to kind of make sure everyone gets a little a little
15:34
bit of action so that you know that you can trust them.
15:37
You keep them warm. So don't give just one percent,
15:41
100% of your business and then hope that when if things
15:45
breakdown, that your replacements are are warm
15:48
because odds are that they won't like you need to keep people
15:51
engaged if you want them to pitch in when you need them.
15:56
So multiple vendors, active vendors per property, detailed
16:02
checklist per property automation in terms of like
16:05
turnover schedule, automate your payments.
16:10
Like again, like it's not worth your mental load to kind of run
16:15
payroll. This is, you know, at least you
16:20
know, when you're talking about a handful of properties, like
16:24
you're not saving any money by by, you know, doing it yourself.
16:28
Trust these kind of very affordable systems that are
16:32
already set in place and and just focus of this is a real
16:38
estate investment that should be relatively passive.
16:44
Like, if you find yourself dealing with people, dealing
16:47
with, you know, payments, dealing with too many
16:54
exceptions, you're probably doing it wrong.
16:57
Yeah, exactly. And again, if you're eating into
17:00
your own personal hours where you should be doing those high
17:03
value tasks, this is kind of a theme of this episode really,
17:06
then yeah, you're kind of doing it wrong because it should be.
17:09
It should be as hands off as possible.
17:11
You're such a little bit there on automation.
17:14
So how do you think automation can reduce stress for house and
17:18
where do you think it can make the biggest difference?
17:20
I. Think when you get to the point
17:22
where there is a booking and you just know that you're set, you
17:30
know that your, your cleanings are aware, they've confirmed
17:34
that they're going, you know that when they're going there
17:37
they have everything they need. So another thing maybe I forgot
17:41
to mention is the tracking inventory.
17:45
Even if everyone is on time and is ready to work, but you don't
17:50
have enough toilet paper or coffee or towels or bleach or
17:56
soap, then you create an exception, right, Which is
18:00
someone has to go do a run and and do shopping and wait at the
18:03
property while there is that happens.
18:06
So track your inventory and make sure that it gets replenished
18:11
before it runs out so that you're always ahead of, you
18:16
know, buy a little extra more so that things don't run out.
18:21
Kind of be prepared for, you know, you're going to have a
18:25
guess of like, what are they drinking?
18:28
Like 10 cups of coffee a day? That's crazy, right?
18:31
Like guests, there are guests like that.
18:36
So we need to be prepared so that we don't get stressed,
18:40
right? You just kind of preemptively
18:45
take care of these things so that they don't disrupt in your
18:49
life. So I think if you are, you know,
18:52
you're a real estate investor, you have a handful of
18:54
properties, you probably have another job, you better, better
18:58
focus on that rather than doing menial work.
19:02
If you are a property manager, your most high value time is
19:09
getting more properties. Is networking, building,
19:14
prospecting, getting more properties under management.
19:18
That's where you should be doing, right?
19:22
If you are cleaning yourself or like manually scheduling or
19:27
running all kinds of silly payrolls, then you're not.
19:31
You're not chasing clients. You're not spending your
19:35
portfolio as much as you could be.
19:38
Yeah, definitely. I mean, try and keep track of it
19:41
one month, you know, if you're spending a bit too much time in
19:44
your business, track the amount of hours that you are doing on
19:48
on short term rentals. And then I think after that, if
19:51
you're finding that there's, you know, tasks that are cropping up
19:53
over and over again, think to yourself, right, what can I
19:56
automate here? Because you can automate pretty
19:59
much everything in in short term rentals to to really get down
20:02
the amount of hours that that you're putting into it.
20:05
As I think a lot of hosts, especially when they're starting
20:09
out, they will go for the cheapest cleaner, the cheapest
20:13
option because they want to keep costs as low as possible.
20:17
Why might this be a bad idea? What we really want to optimize
20:23
for is kind of stability and reliability, right?
20:25
We want to make sure people go when they are said there was
20:30
going to go and if someone comes in really low, it's possible
20:36
that you know that they'll go once or twice, but then if a
20:40
better opportunity comes up, they'll go for it naturally.
20:44
So you want to make sure that it's it's kind of it feels like
20:47
something sustainable. It feels like, you know,
20:51
something fair that someone is willing to leave their house and
20:55
come repeatedly and sustainably to show up for.
21:01
It doesn't mean you have to pay, you know, egregious amounts.
21:06
You know, if you if you're going to like, you know, a big
21:09
cleaning company that had multi layers of management, you're
21:12
probably going to be paying too much.
21:14
You're also probably not going to get, you know, the most
21:19
they're not going to use your checklist, you know, because
21:21
they're going to have their own different processes.
21:24
So I wouldn't recommend that either.
21:26
So you kind of want the ideal person is like someone you know,
21:30
independent and reliable that gets like decent fair pay that
21:36
you know that he will he will show up for this again and again
21:40
and be happy doing it. Another thing I recommend is,
21:43
you know, tip every now and then someone does a good job, you get
21:48
a five star review from your guest tip.
21:51
We also have a feature internal that's automatic tipping.
21:54
When you get a five star urban review will automatically tip
22:00
the cleaner worked before that guest and kind of a lie
22:04
incentive because people know, oh, you know, when I do a good
22:07
job and people appreciate it that I'm I'm compensated.
22:13
I think everyone, you know, everyone feels good about it.
22:17
I know in America we have a big tipping culture, not so much in
22:21
Europe, but I think, I think it doesn't have to be a lot of
22:25
money, but it but it keeps keeps everyone motivated.
22:31
I like that idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:32
Really great idea. And I've, I've made the mistake.
22:34
I remember at one point I needed a new cleaner and spoke to a few
22:38
different options and went for the cheapest 1 and.
22:41
And it turned out to be a terrible idea because I think
22:44
she just wasn't motivated, particularly because it probably
22:47
wasn't worth her time. And that meant missing a lot of
22:51
things. It led to a lot of complaints
22:53
about cleaning and even a few times where she just didn't turn
22:57
up for one reason or another because I don't know if she
22:59
didn't get the communication or didn't get the alert or whatever
23:02
it was. So yeah, cheapest is not always
23:04
best enough. I've been in that boat where
23:06
I've been forced to rush around to a property when somebody
23:08
makes that horrible call. Hey, we've just arrived and we
23:11
don't think it's been cleaned as as a house, a property manager,
23:15
it's the worst call you can get. We've mentioned this as well,
23:22
the kind of the common issue of just relying on maybe one local
23:27
cleaner who lives down the road. Again, let's just reiterate that
23:31
the pitfalls of this. And another thing I want to ask
23:33
you as well is should you go for kind of individual cleaners, do
23:38
you think, or is it better to work with a company who maybe
23:41
have a bit of a bigger team and can be there if somebody's ill
23:45
or or whatever or has to take a kid to school or something?
23:48
Yes and no. I think for me specifically, I
23:52
like working with like two or three individuals.
23:59
I find that they usually the individuals are a little more
24:02
motivated than the cleaning company employees where usually
24:06
are paid less because there's a, you know, the overhead of
24:09
management. But here's a nice thing.
24:12
Well, you know, kind of, but the pitch here for Turno is that
24:18
when you, when you work with Turno Marketplace cleaners, we
24:22
have this thing called Turno Cleaner Guarantee, which means
24:25
that, you know, you basically text our support in a couple of
24:31
seconds, someone is going to answer and say, Hey, listen, you
24:36
know, I, I don't have a cleaner for today.
24:40
We'll find someone in your area and send them there, even if
24:42
they're not on your team right now.
24:44
We have a very, very deep bench, literally thousands and
24:48
thousands of people. And we will, you know, we will
24:51
text 1000 people and we will find someone to show up.
24:56
It might not be someone that you'll continue to work with, or
24:58
maybe you will, but we will literally text 1000 people and
25:03
get someone there. And that is the ideal solution.
25:07
Like I say, when you get that call saying, hey, just arrived
25:10
and it's not being cleaned, if you can get somebody there
25:12
straight away, then that's going to save you going around with
25:16
the vacuum cleaner like like I ended up doing.
25:19
So as we know, this eterno operates across the globe.
25:22
Obviously you've got big presence in the US and growing
25:25
in many parts of the world as well, including the UKI actually
25:29
found my current cleaner on Turner.
25:31
He's fantastic, doing a brilliant job.
25:34
So I'm interested, what are the cultural differences that you've
25:39
spotted from hosts in in different countries around the
25:42
world? You know, it, it might be a
25:45
little characteristic, but you know, I, I think that at least,
25:54
you know, in Europe, I don't know necessarily about the UK,
25:57
but the rest of Europe kind of the hosting, you know, it's kind
26:00
of a lot of like long family businesses that they've been
26:03
doing this for, I don't know, 100 years.
26:07
And you know, they're kind of a little bit set in their way
26:10
sometimes. Whereas a lot of people in the
26:15
US, well, they've been doing it for a couple of years.
26:18
And for them it's a, you know, it's a real estate investment
26:22
and, and they're aligned like, OK, I don't want to spend too
26:25
much time on this. Let me automate this process.
26:27
Whereas I think people in Europe are getting to it, but you know,
26:32
maybe a little a little slower. But having said that, I think
26:38
everyone is kind of receptive to the no one is enjoying this
26:43
process, right? I think like this very few
26:45
people who enjoy scheduling the cleans or like, you know, over
26:51
following up. It's it's someone, it's
26:53
something that everyone is kind of like ready to give up and to
26:57
just to let technology take over here.
27:03
You know, personally, like in my personal life, I kind of want to
27:07
have less technology than more technology.
27:10
You know, I kind of like to write on, you know, pencil and
27:13
paper. Sometimes I like to read like
27:17
real books, not the Kindle. But I think in this case, like
27:20
technology is really a net good for everyone.
27:24
Like this is a task no one enjoys doing, and we'll be happy
27:30
to take it off your plate. Absolutely there will be hosts
27:36
and property managers out there thinking turnovers and cleaning
27:40
are the bane of my life. So, final bit of advice then.
27:44
What would your advice be to those people and what do you
27:47
think a great turnover should look like?
27:53
It it should be where you don't know that there was a guest
27:58
there and you don't know that it even happened, right?
28:01
It's one of those passive things that just happened exactly
28:07
according to the plan. So a guest came there, they left
28:11
a cleaner came there, cleaned exactly the same way as always
28:16
left got paid and you don't even know that it happened.
28:22
And I'll give you, I'll give you a kind of a really, really good
28:29
example of something that happened at Turno.
28:33
So we had a Turno customer that passed away and their Airbnb was
28:39
active. So people were booking it, their
28:42
Turno was active and cleaners were cleaning it.
28:46
And that went on for several months until I think the credit
28:52
card expired or something like that.
28:54
And so just the process was so automated that, you know, it was
29:01
just, it was just happening. Like you can literally run this
29:05
from your grave. There's a marketing campaign
29:09
there, isn't there? Amazing, amazing.
29:14
Run it from your grave. I think what what a brilliant
29:16
way to, to finish the yeah, amazing how far we've got with,
29:21
with technology and automation in the STR world.
29:24
Asaf, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you for sharing the story
29:28
of turn Out and all those fantastic cleaning and turnover
29:31
tips. And thanks for joining us on
29:33
Turnover Tactics. Thanks.
29:35
Thanks for having me, James. It's always a pleasure.
29:38
That's a wrap for this episode of Turnover Tactics.
29:41
Huge thanks to Asaf Carmen for joining us all the way from
29:44
Honolulu. And remember, Turno can help you
29:46
manage your rentals from the grave.
29:48
What a story. Don't forget, if you're ready to
29:52
stop the chaos and start treating your operations like a
29:55
profit centre, get in touch with Turnover All in One cleaning and
29:59
turnover management platform built specifically for short
30:02
term rental hosts. With their global cleaner
30:05
marketplace, automated scheduling and your time of
30:09
date, you'll never stress about turnovers again.
30:12
Whether you manage one property or 100, Turno helps you stay
30:16
guest ready effortlessly. Visit turno.com for further
30:20
details or click the link in the show notes to get started.
30:23
It's time to let Turno take over and remember.
30:27
For more vacation rental education, head to Houseplanet
30:30
dot Club, where you can sign up for our newsletter, listen to
30:33
our podcasts, and download a suite of ebooks for hosts and
30:37
property managers. Thanks for tuning in to Turnover
30:40
Tactics. Until next time, happy hosting.