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The Veterans Compass Podcast – Women Veterans Empowered and Thriving (WVET) · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

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The station where our veterans voices are heard.
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MBR talk. Hey folks, thanks for tuning in.
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You're giving veterans a voice today powered by Work Simple,
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where we simplify your mission just on the web at MB Radio dot.
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Welcome to Veterans Compass Podcast today meeting with Jenny
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Pacanowski, the president and founder and director of Women
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Veterans Empowered and Thriving. I had the pleasure of meeting
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Jenny through Wounded Warriors at a virtual event called the
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Women's Empowerment Workshop and really enjoyed it.
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It was one of my favorite events that I've had with Wounded
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Warriors so far. I really feel like women got to
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connect more than some of the other events.
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Even though we're supposed to be able to connect, there's not
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really a lot of time for us to chit chat back and forth.
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And, and your program really resonated with me.
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There was girls crying and people were sharing and it felt
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so amazing. And I thought I just had to get
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you on this podcast, so welcome, Jenny.
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I am AUS Army veteran as well. I served in the military for
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eight years. I was deployed to Afghanistan
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for 11 months. And so we definitely share some
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commonality in our service. Tell me a little bit about
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yourself. Well, I'm really excited you had
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that experience with Wounded Warrior projects and our
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empowerment workshop because it's always what I imagined and
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intended was like a space for everyone to step up, step back.
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It wasn't just one woman or one person taking up all the space.
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And then there's always like, permission to say no and an
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invitation to say yes. So.
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And yeah, and it happens. People can get really vulnerable
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when you like what we call secure the space with the
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community agreements and the things that we go over.
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And it just really provides a beautiful opportunity to drop
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in, be present with each other and look for similarities
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instead of differences. So, yeah, thanks for that
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feedback. I really loved it it.
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Was it was such a good event? Like I said, you know, I attend
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a lot of virtual events with Wounded Warriors and a lot of
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them will be called Women's Connect or art and chat.
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And I feel like a lot of chatting sometimes doesn't
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happen. So it was really nice that you
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have those prompts to give us for writing things down.
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And then, you know, we're able to, then anybody who was
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outspoken enough was able to read what they said.
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And if they didn't feel comfortable doing that, they
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were able to pop it in the chat. And then you were able to read
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it if they weren't really comfortable with that aspect of
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it. But I liked it.
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And I think I saw people opening up more and more.
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It's like as soon as one voice is heard, everybody is ready to
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share. So very glad to hear about your
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organization through them. Tell me a little bit about your
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military background. So I joined the Army in 2003.
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I, I signed up for the student loan repayment.
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I had gone to college a little bit and I did just, I really did
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want to be in the military. My father was in the Marine
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Corps. But when I tried to join the
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Marine Corps, he's going to be smarter than me, go to college.
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But I just wasn't focused enough or passionate about it at all.
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And then I ended up not joining the Marine Corps.
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I ended up joining the Army because I wanted to be a nurse
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eventually. So they started me out at like a
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healthcare specialist. And then there was like combat
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medic part. But they're like, don't worry,
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the recruiters like, no worries, you're a woman, you won't go to
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war. You're not going to be a combat
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medic, right? Yes.
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I laugh. I left very hard.
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You'll just be in a hospital. Everything's going to be just so
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good. Right after my training, I went
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right to Iraq. I was going to ask what about
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what time frame was it that you joined?
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2003 I went through training. I, you know, the medic, the
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medic programs longer. It's about 16 weeks after basic
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training. And then I got my orders to
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Germany, which is a staging area for Iraq.
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I was in Germany for a month and then I was in the desert by
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2004. Wow so now our our timelines are
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even more being coinciding. My father was also a Marine and
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his advice to me was don't join the Marines.
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We don't treat women very well. Yeah, yeah.
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The FM. The female mattress.
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FM yes. So I learned a lot.
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I learned a lot, yes. And then I was actually in
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Afghanistan from 2003 to 2004. So yeah, our timelines are very,
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very aligned with each other. It's funny, I was 11 1/2 months.
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Oh wow. Yeah.
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So just like, yeah. Nice.
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Yeah. I think they did that on
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purpose, though. I know there was that deal where
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if you were deployed for a year, they had to send you home for
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like a week or two of R&R. And so most of us got shanked
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and, you know, had to be there for 11 months.
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But I did get to do R&R to Qatar.
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So that was nice. I got, I think four or five days
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in Qatar. Yeah, I actually was able to go
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home. There was a couple of us that
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had the opportunity. And interestingly enough, that
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was part of like the traumatic thing that happened.
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I went home and my mom had a letter from the Army saying that
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they weren't going to pay my student loans off, even though
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they were in my contract. So I ended up in a legal battle
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with the military right after my deployment.
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Oh my goodness. Yeah, so I was, what is the
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word? I was really destroyed by the
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whole thing. I felt betrayed by the military.
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I felt betrayed by the Army. I'm like, it's in my contract.
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Like I did everything right. I went to Iraq.
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I did my training. Like, why are you not upholding
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your end of the contract? So when I eventually got out, my
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reintegration, my transition back into the civilian world was
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rough, have a ground to stand on.
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I was just completely lost, disillusioned.
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Then you add the post traumatic stress, the military sexual
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trauma and the traumatic brain injury and I would, I feel, I
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feel lucky to be alive, that I made it through not only the war
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but the aftermath. Right.
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You know, I've had that conversation with a number of
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people where it's not always just about the, the PTSD that
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people would experience or expect us to have experienced.
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You know, I sure I, my, I was at Kandahar Airfield and we were
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mortared and I was, you know, you and I were both there fairly
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early on in the game. So things were a little bit
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dicey still. West I'm like, we were in the
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Wild West, there were no rules There were like no no front
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lines, everything was war, all the.
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Yes, 100%. And you're still, I don't know
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about in Iraq. And for us, we were still living
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in tents. You know, we had GP larges and
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cots and people were buying blow up mattresses to put on the cots
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to make their lives a little bit more comfortable.
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You know, it wasn't hard buildings.
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There wasn't restaurants or anything that I hear are there
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now. We were really excited when we
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got a coffee shop. Yeah, we for a lot of my
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deployment, well, I was all over Iraq, like thousands of miles.
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We did convoys, medical support for convoys.
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So I was at like all different kinds of bases.
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But when we were at al-Assad, we were actually connected to a
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naval hospital and did medical support for Marine convoys.
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So I did end up working with the Marines for almost nine months
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of my deployment. And it was we were in Iraqi, old
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Iraqi barracks. So I did actually get a building
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at one point, but then mostly tents.
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And then we had the Fla, which is the military ambulance.
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It's like a, a Humvee with like a big box on the back of it with
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the four litters. Most people who were in the
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military will recognize the language, but I just wanted to
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explain it. Yeah, yeah.
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That's awesome. So yeah.
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But yeah, like, it's definitely not just those things that
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traumatize us. You know, it's the way people
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get treated. It is the things that you're
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promised that are taken away from you.
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It's the abuse from different people.
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It's, you know, there's MST. There's just so much out there
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that beyond just what people expect to be traumatizing about
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the military. So tell me a little bit about
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the why. What?
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What was it in particular that made you start your organization
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and and how did that all roll out?
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Well, as I said, my reintegration was terrible.
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It was, it was early on. So it was like 2007.
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I was going to the VA and they just did not know what to do
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with me. They're like a woman combat
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veteran. Like even the institution that
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was made for us didn't know what to do with me.
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I was in a combat veteran, goes with Vietnam Veterans, which was
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great. They're my brothers, but like,
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where are the other women? And it's not the same war.
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And so going into rehab eventually, you know, dealing
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with my alcohol abuse and my drug addiction, again, only
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woman, mostly Vietnam Veterans, and they're all looking at me
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and saying, don't be like us. And then I'm like, how, how do I
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not, how do I not rack up, you know, 3 divorces and kids and,
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and, and, and just still be in rehab at 657545 Like how?
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And they're just like, just don't do it.
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And I'm like that I love you guys.
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But like, that's not guidance. And then so right around 2007, I
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found a like a veteran artist group.
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They were doing like handmade paper and writing workshops.
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I actually found it through like activism.
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Some of the veterans were doing like Veterans Against the War,
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Iraq Veterans Against the War was starting.
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And they were just a bunch of angry veterans just like me.
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And I felt betrayed. But that led to eventually being
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in a writing workshop and somebody being like, how do you
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feel? What did you think of the war?
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And then before I knew it, I was on stages and doing public
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speaking and I became a poet. Not had a lot to say.
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And still going through the legal battle with the military,
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filling out my compensation and pension, the disability, like
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the whole navigating of all the systems outside of the military.
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It was just, it was it was a roller coaster.
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And I just wanted a guide. I wanted a support system.
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And overtime, I gathered that. And with each thing I did like,
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oh, the writing helps. OK, telling my story helps.
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But there wasn't a container for it.
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So it was like we'd all like spit our fire and do our poetry
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and our music and then we drink all night and then we'd get high
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and we didn't know what to do with it.
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Once it was here, once it, it was at the surface or, or out
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there. Like now what do we it's out
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there now, what do I do with it? So for at least 10 years I was
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just like re traumatizing myself over and over and over again.
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Like I wanted to get it out, but I just didn't know what I was
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doing. And so eventually I found a
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mentor, his name is Stefan Wolfert.
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He started this program called Decruit.
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It's healing trauma through Shakespeare.
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So he taught me about like how to get into the story, how to
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get out of the story, how to create the container that you
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experienced when we were at Wounded Warrior Project.
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Like going into the story and then out of the story, the
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breath of the, you know, moving the story out of which I really
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fine-tuned over these last like 5 years, really focusing on not
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re traumatizing is is like a huge focus at West vet or women
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veterans empowered and thriving. And, and I gave it this huge
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name because I wanted the veterans to more than survive.
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I wanted the veterans to feel empowered in their storytelling,
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not just tell the story, release the guilt, the shame, the
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trauma, celebrate, triumph, like all the things.
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And So what 2 words always represented that for me was
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empowered and thriving. And that's what I wanted myself,
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and that's what I wanted for other veterans as well.
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That's awesome. That's pretty much the same
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reason why I'm starting this organization.
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And you and I had a great conversation our first meeting
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outside of Wounded Warriors where I told you, you know,
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it's, it's so important to me. When I go to events, I'm always
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sharing different resources that I've found and people out there
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will, you know, I feel like sometimes we get stuck.
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It's easy to get stuck in why you need these resources.
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It's easy to get stuck in what happened in the past and not be
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able to move on from it. And you know, while all of those
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stories are important, all of the MST stories I've heard, all
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of the, the war stories I've heard, those are all very
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important. And it's who we are.
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But really what's important to me is that myself and other
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veterans are able to move past this.
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And it's it's not about, you know, you, you're running a
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nonprofit too. All of it is not about making
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money for yourself. It's not about gaining notoriety
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or becoming well known in the industry.
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It's, you know, how many people can I help?
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Is there anybody out there that I can make a difference for?
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Is there anybody else whose life I can make a little bit easier
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because I've already gone through this?
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And now you created this framework and I did.
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I loved how we walked into it. And you know, we were able to
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come up with things to say about that.
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But then when we left, we were also, we accepted what we had
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shared. We accepted things that we
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couldn't move past or that we are working on moving past and
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we were able to accept that there's something out there
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beyond what we're already going through.
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So it's just so important that I think people hear that there's
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there's another side to this and that there is the other side of
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what your trauma that you've, you know, face to that you've
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lived through that you can thrive, that you can get out of
15:27
the military and be a successful person and be a successful
15:31
human. More importantly that, at least
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to me, that's more important. I really wanted the veterans and
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participants like we do family workshops as well.
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I have something to take home with them.
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I got, I got really sick of like going to therapy and like
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feeling good in the moment or feeling good around other
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veterans and then going back to my life and being like, well,
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now what do I do? Like the guide was really
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important to me. Like what can you take home?
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Like the breathing exercise, the community agreements and how to
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practice them and how to retrain your brain to do something
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different besides mission first, how do you fill your container
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and then give? Because we were all called to
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service, right? So how do we still serve and not
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end up in depletion, depression, suicide, addiction,
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homelessness, incarcerate, Like the list is forever, right?
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Disconnection from ourselves. Like, how do, how do, how do we
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help ourselves, you know, while we're alone?
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Yeah, I love it. I was never much of A journaler,
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even when I was a kid, you know, lots of young girls had journals
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that they would write in. That was never my thing.
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But I will say that since I started doing a lot of Wounded
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Warrior events, even though I'm not like the daily journaler, I
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use that journal anytime I do events.
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So your prompts become, you know, an entry in my journal.
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And so do the other workshops that I do where it's just
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somewhere for me to go back and reflect.
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And, you know, if I'm having a hard day, I can go back and flip
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through the book and be like, OK, let's see, what did I do?
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One of those days that made me feel really good, You know, so I
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I truly, from the bottom of my heart, appreciate what you do
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for US women through Wounded Warriors.
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And I know you service everybody.
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But as I've mentioned with this podcast, I'm really focusing on
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the women. I feel like the guys have a lot
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of space. It's not a competition over who
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needs space or who wants space or anything like that.
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There's going to be things out there that that we as women want
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to talk about just as much as the guys are going to have
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things that they want to talk about that maybe they don't want
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us around for. I'm sure they don't want us to
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hear about erectile dysfunction just as much as we maybe don't
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want to talk about pregnancy and perimenopause and menopause and
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all these other different hormone issues.
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You know, there's things that we all need our own spaces for and
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it's not discounting any one person over the other.
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I feel like there needs to be more room for the ladies right
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now. You know, where we can come on
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and we can chat and we can be together and say things that
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we're not worried about judgment from anybody.
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So a space for women. I love that you have these
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different groups. You have some that are for
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everybody, you have some that are for the women warriors, you
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have some for the LGBT community.
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You really do make it so that a person can find whatever place.
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If they don't care and they want to be in the open group, go for
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it. But if they feel like they need
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that space of their group, of their peers, then they can go
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and join one of the other groups.
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And I know you have a lot of events.
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You said that you have like 6 to 8 events monthly and that's on
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top of what you do for Wounded Warriors.
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Yeah, absolutely. It was really important for me
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that everyone's story was valued, was highlighted and then
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like and also having your own exclusive space to to identify
19:07
as you identify and then also feel secure there.
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And then as you open up or as you heal on your journey, you
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have the options to do the same workshop but with different
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people. And then when the women or
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veterans or family members want to speak their stories, we have
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opportunities, paid opportunities, because stories
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are valuable. And so people are compensated
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for their time. So it's like 200 bucks to speak
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at an open mic, $300 to facilitate a workshop if you go
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through the facilitator training, like really valuing
19:44
the stories that are being told. Because in the beginning of my
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career, I was exploited. I worked, facilitated workshops,
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spoke at hundreds of places and did not get paid gas money or
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anything else. And I just didn't know.
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I didn't know that this was like a career or this was valuable.
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I was just doing it from. That service aspect, So if
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people take nothing else from from this podcast, like your
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stories are not free. Like there's expertise, there's
20:13
experience, there's all these things and make sure that you're
20:16
compensated and you're taking care of you.
20:19
Oh, definitely, yeah. I, people have asked me a lot
20:22
about the future of my podcast and I keep saying, I don't know,
20:26
I'm going to see where the wind blows me.
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But I think, you know, in the grand terms of things, if I, if
20:33
this did become any kind of a money making machine, it would
20:37
become a nonprofit. I'd rather, you know, reimburse
20:41
myself for the things that I have to, you know, equipment and
20:45
subscription fees and stuff like that, or if I have to drive and
20:48
go to places. But if I were to ever have a
20:52
good portion of money come back, I would be putting it right back
20:55
out into that community. Because that's the whole point
20:58
of this is that, you know, whether it's maybe service
21:03
member wants to attend a retreat, but that retreat you
21:06
have to buy the plane ticket for, you know, maybe I would be
21:10
able to do that in the future. So it is true.
21:13
You know, we as, as people who served in the military, we
21:18
already must have had some kind of a service based mind to begin
21:22
with to there's 1% of the country is in the military.
21:28
And if you think about that, I still am looking for all of the
21:31
demographics of like the percentage of women who serve is
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probably 1% of the 1%. And then how many have gone to
21:39
combat? And what percentage is that?
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Like we are such a small group of people.
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And if we don't feel like we are because we meet so many people
21:46
who are, but we, we're going to gravitate towards each other
21:49
because we'd all do have that same mentality.
21:52
We all have some of the same interests.
21:54
We all have some of the same desires and and values.
21:59
So definitely being a person who is service oriented, I think
22:06
that's another reason why you and I ended up leaning towards
22:09
things like this when we got out, you know, and even before I
22:12
did this, I was in human resources, which is basically
22:15
the service person for an organization and its employees.
22:18
You know, it's my whole life is about service.
22:21
And I definitely think that we are going to keep staying on
22:26
that course and that's where we belong.
22:28
And whether we realize that those was that was one of our
22:30
values or not, we are here and that's what we want to do.
22:33
We want to help others. Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing
22:37
that stood out to me is I was doing the public speaking, I was
22:41
doing the poetry, facilitating the writing workshops.
22:44
And then right around 2011, I moved to Ithaca, NY, for another
22:49
nonprofit. It was like 18 a day.
22:54
Veterans were killing themselves and are completing suicide,
22:58
whatever, which is your preference.
23:03
And that really struck me. And I was like, veterans are
23:05
dying, veterans are dying, My veterans are dying, like our
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veterans are dying. And I wanted to know why.
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And I wanted to know what I could do about it.
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And that really drove me after that to find the the the path
23:19
that I'm on now. And I now I believe it, it keeps
23:23
the number keeps climbing, but I think it's stabilized for a
23:26
while now because now it's always the 22 a day, 22 a day
23:31
veterans will probably attempt to commit suicide or will
23:37
complete the act of I know I've been there myself and I've been
23:41
in a facility probably four or five Times Now in my life.
23:46
And it's it's thanks to organizations like yours, it's
23:52
thanks to Wounded Warriors, it's thanks to my friends and family
23:57
that I'm able to climb out of that darkness every time that I
24:01
end up back there. But, and I think, you know, one
24:05
of the big things is that people don't realize that happy people
24:10
are not always happy all the time.
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And you know, you look even outside the military, you look
24:16
at like Robin Williams. How can somebody who's so funny
24:19
and seem so happy and bring so much joy to the world, how could
24:23
somebody like that commit suicide?
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And I'll get that all the time. People are always like, you
24:28
know, the whole you don't look disabled, you don't seem
24:30
disabled or, you know, you don't seem depressed.
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And I'm like, what? I'm sorry, do you want me to
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walk around and look like I look on my worst day every day of the
24:38
week 'cause I don't? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It's that appearance as it's, it's the judgments.
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It's, it's, sometimes it's the masks we wear, you know, that
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that constant reminder of like lifting these stigmas and like,
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it's, it's just really important.
24:57
And I've really started to focus on like not breaking down, but
25:00
like breaking open and being broken isn't necessarily a
25:04
problem because then the light shines through and then I get to
25:07
rebuild myself, remold myself. So even looking at things as as,
25:13
as those, those rock bottom moments are those moments to
25:17
rebuild, but they're necessary and, and, and they happen to, I
25:21
believe everyone, but it's just not always talked about by
25:26
everyone. Right.
25:27
And I think that once we do start talking about it more,
25:31
that's going to help other veterans as well, because part
25:34
of it is, you know, the adapt and overcome and in the
25:38
military, it's, you know, suck it up and drive on.
25:41
And we're taught not to let that part of us show through.
25:47
You know, it's just got to keep pushing.
25:49
You got to fake it till you make it, and then you end up burnt
25:53
out because there's nothing left for you to even give anymore.
25:57
So. Yeah, and that's a huge focus on
26:00
in our workshop is like, what is the guide to rebuild yourself?
26:04
What is the guide to fill your container?
26:06
And everyone's is different. And then giving that feedback to
26:09
each other like we do during the community agreements.
26:11
Well, this is how I'm kind to myself.
26:13
This is how I've learned to love myself.
26:15
You know, this is the moment that I take a breath.
26:17
This is how I do, you know, and just helping each other and
26:20
guiding each other to find find your own path.
26:23
Because the military had such that stricts structure.
26:27
And they told us to breathe, went to walk, went to March,
26:30
went to go to the bathroom, you know, everything was laid out
26:32
for us. And then creating that for
26:35
ourselves in the civilian world as part of that reintegration
26:38
process. That's never retrained.
26:40
And I think that's that's a disappointment.
26:42
The Department of Defense does billions of dollars training us,
26:46
but does not retrain us for the civilian world.
26:48
They don't even have a budget line for reintegration.
26:52
It falls on Homeland Security and a couple other.
26:55
And so we're actively doing research on like creating a
26:59
reintegration model. Maybe it's not for everyone, but
27:01
it's definitely a beginning, a start, a guide of like this is
27:06
how you can come home and this is how you start reconnecting to
27:09
yourself. And then, you know, try the
27:12
bicycling, try, try all the things where I get disheartened
27:18
when the veterans try one thing, it doesn't work, and then they
27:21
don't try again. Such like, like, try again, try
27:26
again, try again, maybe even try it twice.
27:30
Just like taking that military mentality.
27:33
And instead of doing the selfless service, it's like, how
27:36
can I rebuild myself? Like, what else do I need to
27:39
try? Having you be your mission, your
27:42
health or your Wellness. You know, a lot of people ask me
27:47
now that I'm retired what I do all day and I said my job is
27:50
myself. Now my job is taking care of me
27:53
because I've spent the past 40 something years taking care of
27:58
everybody else around me. And it's finally time for me.
28:01
And people are like, Oh my gosh, you do so many things.
28:03
You're always out and about. And I'm like, I'm always out
28:06
with veteran organizations. You know, I'm out there trying
28:09
to make myself better. And I feel like I feel like it's
28:13
easier for me to get that way when I'm around other veterans
28:16
because I know that they've experienced a lot of maybe not
28:20
the stories might not be mirror images, but we all have that
28:24
same training. We all have the same mindset.
28:26
We all kind of go down the same paths when our minds wander.
28:30
So it, it just makes it a lot easier for that to happen when
28:36
you have a bunch of other veterans around you.
28:39
So tell me a little bit about the framework of your events.
28:43
We've kind of mentioned it a little bit, but if somebody
28:45
wanted to join one of your events, what would they expect?
28:52
So first you would start out on the website or Wounded Warrior
28:55
projects platform RSVP, get the the zoom link and then when you
29:00
show up, everything is an invitation.
29:05
There is no, you have to have your camera on.
29:08
You have to be, you know, unmuted.
29:11
We have to see you and know that you're interacting.
29:13
It's none of that. If you want to go to the first
29:15
workshop and just watch, observe and see what it's about.
29:20
Like we veterans, especially with our experiences, we want to
29:24
know what's coming around the corner.
29:25
And sometimes that's a moment of just sitting with yourself in a
29:28
space, just listening to other people and how they're
29:30
reflecting. So we start really gently and
29:33
everything is invitation. So there's a check in and the
29:37
check in isn't someone telling their 20 minute story or bio.
29:42
It's just your name, how you authentically feel, which can be
29:46
a hard question to answer if you're not used to checking in
29:49
with yourself. Something you want us to know
29:51
about you and then your zoom location and the something you
29:55
want us to know about you. I didn't want to put veterans in
29:58
a box of like say your branch, say the years you served do like
30:02
that usual thing. I wanted veterans, especially
30:05
with complicated relationships with their service, especially
30:08
like I had when I came home. I got really sick of being like
30:12
I was in the Army. I'll be like, I got a divorced
30:14
from the Army because they betrayed me and I don't want to
30:17
identify with my abuser. Like I have a very particular
30:21
way and I wanted people to have the option if they wanted to, to
30:25
leap forward and be like I am a proud veteran and I live in the
30:29
Marine Corps. Whatever.
30:30
Like meet everyone where they're at, but not force them into the
30:34
box of you have to say these particular things.
30:37
So right off the bat, it's a lot of invitation to say yes.
30:42
An absolute no is a complete sentence.
30:44
And practice the no. Practice the no in our workshop.
30:47
Come in the workshop and say no to me.
30:49
I will applaud you. Well done, I do it there.
30:55
Was a woman that came into the workshop and camera off muted
31:01
the whole time. At the end, she did a
31:03
reinforcement and said how grateful she was and she's going
31:06
to make an effort to take care of herself or do some kind of
31:08
self-care, you know, so listening the whole time.
31:12
So we move into the breath so it could become present.
31:15
And it starts with the gifts of what we're giving you to work on
31:18
outside the workshop. So simple breathing practices,
31:22
breathing in, breathing out, releasing, releasing in your
31:24
body, feeling it's your body, body scans.
31:27
What do you want to rebuild? Like each meditation is, is
31:30
different. It's like it's a guided
31:31
medication, breathing exercise. So we do that and then we settle
31:35
in and we go over the community agreement was just how we secure
31:38
the space. I don't use the language safe
31:40
space. You can't lie to your nervous
31:43
system if you don't feel safe in your body or your mind or your
31:46
environment or your relationships.
31:48
Like I can't walk into a room and be like, this is a safe
31:50
space. That's just me.
31:52
I don't believe in that language.
31:54
So I say we secure the space. We agree on how to treat each
31:57
other. We start, there are 13 community
32:00
agreements. We review them, how to practice
32:02
them. How do you be kind to yourself?
32:04
How do you show self compassion? What does these words even mean?
32:07
Like kindness, that word is thrown around all the time.
32:10
It's actually a behavior showing acts of consideration, concern,
32:15
generosity. So what does kindness mean to
32:18
you? So again, having that option for
32:20
interacting without one or two people, you know, monopolizing
32:25
the time. And then if no one wants to
32:28
speak, the facilitators there to guide the process.
32:32
And we call ourselves facilitators because we're in it
32:34
with you. I'm not your mentor.
32:36
I'm not your teacher. I am another veteran in it with
32:41
you. And we created this guide to
32:43
help me. And then I'm sharing it with
32:45
you. I do love that.
32:47
I love that you guys create the parameters.
32:51
You know, like you said, there's all these safe spaces out there
32:56
and people say that things are a safe space, but if you don't
33:00
know what makes it a safe space, how do you internally know that
33:04
it's safe? So yours, you know, I love when
33:07
you hear those things, like some of the I, I don't even want to
33:10
call them rules, but like the parameters of being in this
33:14
group and what it means and, you know, not sharing and not
33:17
running out and telling other people about what you heard.
33:20
So and so said, you know, some of those and just the
33:23
positivity, you know, not, you know, it's, we shouldn't have to
33:27
say those things. But honestly, that's what is
33:30
needed for someone to feel safe is that they know that they are
33:34
not going to be ridiculed. They know that they're not going
33:36
to have anybody judging them, that they know that what they
33:40
say is not going to be repeated or used out of context.
33:44
You know, there's so many things that can make a person feel more
33:48
safe when they are speaking that I feel like.
33:52
But anybody, anybody who has a group that does something like
33:55
this should have those rules and parameters in, you know, at
33:59
least something so that people feel like it's OK to talk in
34:04
whatever element they are in. Yeah.
34:07
And it's like we agree. That's why we call them
34:10
agreements, community agreements.
34:11
We agree on how to treat each other.
34:13
And if and if you don't put it out there, then it leaves
34:18
opportunities to, I don't want to say behave badly, but just
34:23
like maybe have a, a trauma reaction.
34:26
But if you know what the the guidelines are, it's easier for
34:31
us to guide you back. Like, oh, you know, that was
34:34
unkind or that was a judgement if we could bring it back.
34:37
And then it helps us learn together and practice together
34:40
and then take them out into the world after the workshop.
34:43
But when you have the agreements to work with and they build off
34:47
each other, you know, not apologizing for taking space.
34:50
Women are absolutely, absolutely socialize to apologize for
34:54
speaking, for existing, for speaking, all the thing,
34:58
everything. So what happens when you stop
35:02
apologizing? I'm sorry and I'm sorry, but
35:04
even for the the cardinal role of not being late in the
35:07
military, you have to be 10 minutes early to be on time.
35:10
Like, no, how about you just come into a space and say thank
35:14
you for understanding that I'm late.
35:16
Done, you know, keeping your power and if someone has a
35:21
reaction to that, you know, the other community agreement is
35:24
trying not to take things personally.
35:25
It ain't about you. You don't know what's going on
35:27
in that person's life. So, so just giving those guides
35:33
and also like what's how did we learn things in basic training
35:37
repetition? So that's why every workshop is
35:40
the same. We do the community agreements
35:42
every time to create the science, the neural pathways.
35:45
It's not just feel good, it's literally to retrain our brain
35:49
to do something different because the military didn't
35:52
retrain us. We these things, we need these
35:55
guides. I really wish they would like
35:58
upon your exit have some kind of a reintegration.
36:01
Like we know you're used to all these really strict rules and
36:05
regulations but guess what? The real world isn't like that.
36:08
Cuz I remember my first job I got told all the time things
36:12
aren't black and white and I'm like no but they are.
36:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like debilitating.
36:18
I say it. We're we're gonna, when we're in
36:20
workshop, we're gonna add color and there's gonna be Gray areas
36:24
and like how do we navigate that?
36:26
And how do we navigate people that are not from the same
36:29
culture that we're from? Cuz military is a culture,
36:32
civilian is a culture, so it's culture shock.
36:36
So how do we navigate these differences?
36:40
By finding similarities is what I found.
36:43
Yeah. So yeah, last part of the
36:46
workshop, if you want me to run it all down just real quick,
36:49
then we do the free writing. So free writing is not college
36:51
writing. It's no punctuation.
36:54
It's just thoughts and ideas onto the paper.
36:56
We encourage you to write because there's a lot of clutter
36:59
and things moving around in there.
37:00
And if you put it on the paper, you don't have to read it again.
37:04
Permission to say no, invitation to say yes, then people have the
37:08
opportunity to read what they wrote.
37:11
And that's all about like the witnessing and the releasing and
37:15
moving through it. And some, some of the free
37:17
rights are just like words and, and and fragments and squirrel,
37:21
you know, like all the things. But then eventually we get to
37:24
the story and then we can reflect off each other without
37:28
the judgments. And then like feedback is, is
37:32
not constructive criticism. For God's sake, stop, stop using
37:36
that language. You know, like, don't do it.
37:39
Just reflections. What stood out to me.
37:41
Resonations can be positive or negative, and I don't have to
37:45
tell you which one, so it avoids arguments.
37:47
So the whole structure is just moving into how do we find
37:51
similarities, how do we reflect off each other and be a
37:55
community? And then to close the space,
37:58
that vulnerable space. If we told stories of trauma or
38:02
childhood or whatever, doing the reinforcements, like what am I
38:05
taking home with me? What do I want to reinforce in
38:09
my own mind, body and spirit that I'm going to practice
38:12
again? What are we going to do when
38:14
we're not together? And building that, that bridge.
38:17
And then doing the breath after each one.
38:19
So lots of breathing at the end of workshops to release what got
38:24
what I call sticky. Sometimes things stick and I
38:26
don't want to carry each other's burdens.
38:28
I want to uplift everyone and have that one with themselves.
38:33
So yeah. That's and you said you got this
38:35
kind of framework from the other organization or did you come up
38:41
with this framework on your own? A little bit of both, like the
38:44
free writing is from the writing workshops I used to do Stefan
38:49
Wolfert, my my mentor, he taught me about check insurance and
38:54
reinforcements. So I credit him and got
38:57
permission to add that to our empowerment workshop.
39:00
The community agreements came from me.
39:03
How did I rebuild myself after war, trauma, all the things.
39:13
That's awesome and you are you are personally in Pennsylvania,
39:18
but a good portion you have both in person and virtual events,
39:23
whether it's the Wounded Warrior virtual events, but you also
39:26
have your own virtual events, but there's also in person
39:29
things that you do with your organization as well.
39:32
Yeah. We also do some hybrid, so some
39:34
people in person, some people on Zoom.
39:37
Those are really successful. We do a thing called Dyna Vet,
39:41
like we'll go all all of us will go out to eat before the
39:44
workshop. But most of the in person stuff
39:47
is in Pennsylvania. But we have chapter slowly
39:52
developing. Like we have a gay veteran in
39:56
California and he wants to start his own chapter.
39:59
We have a woman veteran in Maine.
40:01
So slowly, as we're training new facilitators, the expansion of
40:06
in person stuff is going to become more accessible.
40:10
But honestly, people complain about the virtual stuff but they
40:13
also show up the most when it's virtual so that they can be in
40:17
their car, they can watch their kids, they can check on pet.
40:21
Like the virtual thing has its own magic.
40:24
And then we also do performances, open mics, panels,
40:28
public speaking events for really anybody that hires us
40:31
will go out. We would, we just got back from
40:34
New Mexico in in May. We went out to some workshops
40:38
and then open mic and a performance.
40:40
So organizations have money will come out and and we do it on
40:46
like a sliding scale cuz we want to be accessible.
40:49
Right, right. That's awesome.
40:52
Well, it has been amazing talking to you.
40:54
I'm so glad to get the information about your
40:57
organization out to people. It's like I said, it's another
41:01
tool in the tool belt of how to thrive, how to be empowered and
41:07
thrive after our military service.
41:10
And even though the name of your organization is Women's
41:13
Veterans, you know, you, you service everybody, you are
41:17
helping everybody. But I do love the fact that you
41:20
have that separate space for the women veterans.
41:24
Like I said, we never know what's going to come up.
41:26
We never know what trauma we're going to talk about.
41:29
And we never know even in our lives right now, what it is
41:33
that's weighing heavily on our minds.
41:34
So having that special safe space, sacred space, you know,
41:41
having a different area for us is just so important, I think,
41:47
and I think you do too, because you recognize that people want
41:50
to be around like people. So again, thank you so much for
41:56
everything you've done. Thank you.
41:57
And I, like I said, I do your women empowerment events through
42:02
Wounded warriors every month. I keep saying I'm going to take
42:05
a look at the events that you do with your organization solo and
42:09
see like how much that differs because I think you said also
42:12
that the the one for Wounded Warriors is a little bit shorter
42:17
than the one that you do with your own organization.
42:20
So I'm very curious to see what more happens in that additional
42:24
time and what more comes out. But thank you so much for being
42:30
on my podcast. Thank you for being the first
42:32
organization that I have spoken with.
42:36
And I really hope that more people come your way.
42:40
I know that that's a big thing for a lot of our nonprofits is
42:44
getting the word out there, letting people know that you
42:47
even exist because it's without people to serve.
42:51
You don't get grants without people to serve.
42:54
You know what, what's the point? So I hope that your your
43:00
organization stays around for a very long time.
43:02
I hope that you have the most success that is even possible
43:06
with your organization. Thank you.
43:08
Thank you for for having me. It was really lovely meeting you
43:12
and I wish you the best success for the podcast as well.
43:15
You're doing great work and great questions.
43:18
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43:22
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