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Spiritual Boogeymen · Clay to Crown

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Clay to Crown podcast.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: I am so blessed that you are here, and I
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: hope that by the end of this little episode today
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: that you are blessed as well.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Because today we're stepping.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Into a conversation that kind of sits right at the
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: heart of our spiritual formation, right?
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Our spiritual growth.
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  Speaker 2: And I think that's the tension between a world of
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: that deforms.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Us, and then a spirit who forms us.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: And I'll peel the onion back on what I mean
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: by that as we go through, but we're all a
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: byproduct of the world around us, right? Essentially, that's what
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I'm getting at there. The world deforms, but the Holy
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Spirit forms. And we're going to explore something I think
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: that a lot of Western Christians might find a little
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: bit surprising or I hope not controversial, but we'll see.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: And that is how often that the enemy, quote unquote,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: you know, that we think we are fighting is actually
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: a distortion of our own minds.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: It's a distortion of our own thoughts.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: It's not necessarily a demon under the bed, not a
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: monster in the dark boogeyman around the corner. And that's
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: what I always say, you know, we blame it on
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: the boogeyman.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Um, but it's.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Actually a reality, a theological reality of an unrenewed mind,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: a mind that is still being shaped by the fall,
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  Speaker 2: still echoing the world's patterns and still carrying shadows that
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: feel bigger than what they are. Um, So this is not,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I don't, please don't misunderstand, this is not a conversation
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: about dismissing spiritual warfare, because spiritual warfare is real.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I wrote a whole book about it.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: But it is about locating it correctly and putting it
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: in its proper perspective and place. So let's begin, as
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I begin a lot of these conversations with people, let's
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: begin at the beginning with the doctrine of the fall.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Genesis 3, and that's where the story of Adam and
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Eve and in the garden and the deception of the enemy,
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  Speaker 2: Genesis 3 does not just describe a moment of disobedience.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: It's there.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Disobedience is obviously there in the words, but I think
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  Speaker 2: the bigger picture is that it describes a rupture, a
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: rupture of relationships, right? Humanity's relationship with God is fractured.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Our perception is fractured. Our relationship with each other is fractured.
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  Speaker 2: Our relationship with creation is fractured. And so, it's important that,
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: you know, it's not just about disobedience. It's about the
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: breaking of relationships. And So, Paul then says in Romans
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: chapter 1 that humanity became futile in their thinking and
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: that their hearts were darkened. So, again, this is where
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about deformation, right? It's the twisting of humanity's perception.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: The world we inhabit is not neutral, right? Let me
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: say that again. The world we inhabit is not neutral.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: It catechizes us. So, you know, you go, okay, what
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: does that mean?
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: What is catechism? Catechism is just a.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Series of instruction, and it's usually a word that we
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: hear used in more high church-like circles or their Sunday
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: school in Catholicism or Lutheran or Episcopalian or whatever, it's
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  Speaker 2: an instruction. It's an instruction in those doctrines and precepts. So,
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  Speaker 2: Just as the church catechizes its people, instructs its people,
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  Speaker 2: the world can catechize us too, and it does it systematically.
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  Speaker 2: It forms us through our habits, through the media, through
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  Speaker 2: fear cycles, through cultural narratives, like how much cultural angst
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: and animosity is happening right now, specifically here in the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: United States, right? And then unexamined assumptions, we assume something,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: but then we don't look into it ourselves, and then
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: we allow those assumptions to take root, and then it
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: becomes part of our formation day to day.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: And because our.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Minds are primarily the battleground for this spiritual warfare, I
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: think that deformation often shows up as distorted fears, right?
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  Speaker 2: You're afraid of something, but it's, you know, there's the old,
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  Speaker 2: what is that called? Like an, not an analogy.
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  Speaker 1: I don't remember.
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  Speaker 2: I don't remember the word for this, but it's fear is,
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  Speaker 2: you know, F is F E A R is false
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  Speaker 2: evidence appearing real, right?
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  Speaker 1: And Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So, distorted fears, exaggerated threats, that goes back to things
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  Speaker 2: appearing real, but they're not. False narratives, misinterpretations of reality.
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  Speaker 2: How much misinterpretation of reality did we have in Western
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  Speaker 2: society today with all kinds of, you know, the transgenderism
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  Speaker 2: or a child in its mother's womb is not a human,
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  Speaker 2: you know, or it's.
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  Speaker 1: Not a child.
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  Speaker 2: They say it's just an embryo. Well, that's just a
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  Speaker 2: stage of development. But, you know, this podcast today isn't
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: necessarily for those things, but it's misinterpretations of reality, right?
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  Speaker 2: Internal accusations, emotional reactions that outrun truth, all of these
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  Speaker 2: things are distortions. And they're the primary battleground. And these
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  Speaker 2: distortions feel spiritual, right? right? I mean, especially, you know,
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  Speaker 2: when we hear it a lot, you know, the enemy
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: is attacking me, the enemy is attacking me.
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  Speaker 1: So, it feels spiritual. And in a sense, that's not wrong.
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  Speaker 2: In a sense, they are because of what happened all
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: those millennia ago with our first parents. Again, the cosmic rupture,
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  Speaker 2: the distance that happened between us and our Creator, it
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: is spiritual. But here's the twist, right? It's not always demonic.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: And I've been coming more and more aware of this
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  Speaker 2: truth as my days go, and I keep studying scripture.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Are demons real? Yes, absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: You will never hear me say that demons aren't real.
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  Speaker 2: I just don't believe that there's a demon around every
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  Speaker 2: corner assigned to attack every Christian. That is not biblical.
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  Speaker 3: Right?
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  Speaker 1: I think what these things are.
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  Speaker 3: They're the lingering effects of a mind that is still
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  Speaker 3: being sanctified, of a mind that is still being reformed
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  Speaker 3: and refined.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: This is why the Apostle Paul emphasizes mind renewal.
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  Speaker 1: Again, we'll talk about that in a second.
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  Speaker 2: I don't want to get ahead of myself with quoting
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  Speaker 2: some Bible verses, but he talks about mind renewal as
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: the pathway of transformation.
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  Speaker 1: I'll do it.
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  Speaker 2: Romans 12 says, Be ye transformed by what? By the
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: renewing of your mind. That's the pathway to transformation because
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: the fall didn't just corrupt our behavior. Again, it corrupted
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: our perception of the world around us. So what's a shadow?
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  Speaker 2: Everybody knows what a shadow is, right? A light shines
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  Speaker 2: behind an object and it casts a shadow. The sun
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  Speaker 2: shines down on earth and we get shadows either of
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: ourselves or of the trees or even the passing clouds.
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  Speaker 1: So a shadow is real, right? The shadow is real.
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  Speaker 1: We can see it.
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  Speaker 2: We know that that's a phenomenon that happens in nature
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  Speaker 2: when light you know, uh, shines on something, the object
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  Speaker 2: casts a shadow, but it's not necessarily a true representation, right?
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  Speaker 2: It has form, but not substance. Like it's a shadow
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  Speaker 2: is 2d, not 3d, right? It has form, but not substance.
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  Speaker 2: It has shape. You know, you can, I can tell
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: that that is my shadow because it has my shape. Um,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: but it's not my identity. That shadow is not me,
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  Speaker 2: and I am not my shadow. But thinking about a shadow,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: it is the perfect metaphor for fear in a fallen mind.
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  Speaker 2: Scripture often uses imagery of darkness and shadow to describe ignorance, deception,
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  Speaker 2: and misperception. Psalm 23 speaks of the shadow of death.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: The shadow of death, not death itself, right? Isaiah 9
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  Speaker 2: describes people walking in darkness. They're not being attacked, but
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: they are being misled, right? Walking around in the dark,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: sometimes it's hard to find your way. John 1 talks
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  Speaker 2: about the light shining in the darkness, and darkness cannot
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  Speaker 2: comprehend it. Speaking of our Savior, the light. shining in
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: the darkness. So, darkness is not a force equal to light.
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  Speaker 2: Darkness is not a force equal to light. And I
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  Speaker 2: think we want to do that too. We want to
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  Speaker 2: put the fallen world and the real person of Satan
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: on the same level as the living God. And that,
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  Speaker 2: that cannot be, that is not, um, darkness is not
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  Speaker 2: a force equal to light. It is the absence of light.
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  Speaker 2: And just like your shadow is a distortion because it's
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  Speaker 2: not perfect every time, right? Um, of who you are, uh,
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  Speaker 2: Darkness is also a distortion. You can't see then your reality. So,
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  Speaker 2: when we misinterpret shadows, we create the ever-evolving boogeyman. Those
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  Speaker 2: exaggerated fears, the imagined threats, the false enemies, theologically, this
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  Speaker 2: is called a noetic effect of sin.
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  Speaker 1: And you're like, what?
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  Speaker 2: And I'm not talking noetic like Noah and the ark.
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  Speaker 2: That's not the noetic I'm talking about. Noetic comes from
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  Speaker 2: the Greek word nous. I think I'm saying that right.
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  Speaker 2: And it's talking about meaning mind, intellect, or understanding. So
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  Speaker 2: the noetic effects of sin are essentially saying the way
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  Speaker 2: that sin affects the mind's ability to perceive truth. So
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  Speaker 2: when we say, I feel spiritually attacked, again, that's a
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  Speaker 2: true statement. A lot of times we are being spiritually attacked.
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  Speaker 2: But more importantly, what we're actually experiencing is a shadow.
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  Speaker 2: A shadow cast by past trauma or distortion formed by
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: cultural fear. A lie shaped by shame. A habit shaped
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  Speaker 2: by the world or a thought pattern that has not
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  Speaker 2: yet been renewed.
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  Speaker 1: The boogeyman in the corner is not a demon. It's
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  Speaker 1: a distortion. So let's turn now to the Spirit, to
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  Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit.
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  Speaker 2: The Holy Spirit's work in sanctification is not merely behavioral.
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  Speaker 1: It's perceptual.
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  Speaker 3: Okay?
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  Speaker 2: He forms our minds, not just our morals. The Holy
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  Speaker 2: Spirit is transforming your mind, not just your morals. Jesus
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  Speaker 2: calls him the spirit of truth. And truth is not
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  Speaker 2: merely information. It is illumination. You're shedding light into the darkness.
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  Speaker 2: When you don't know something, or something happens, and like,
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  Speaker 2: let's say there's a murder or something like that, and
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  Speaker 2: investigators are trying to get to the truth of what happened,
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  Speaker 2: they are collecting information, right? All of those facts and
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  Speaker 2: figures and all of that stuff. Those things are truth,
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  Speaker 2: but what that truth does is illuminate what happened at
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  Speaker 2: that crime scene. It illuminates and sheds light on the perpetrator, right? So,
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  Speaker 2: That's what the Spirit is about. The Spirit's work includes conviction, right?
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  Speaker 2: We get convicted by certain things, right?
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  Speaker 1: So it kind of.
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  Speaker 2: Reveals our own shortcomings and puts it in a way
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  Speaker 2: that makes us be aware of it and wants it
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  Speaker 2: to draw closer to Christ. Then it illuminates, it reveals
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  Speaker 2: what is fall, what is true, right?
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  Speaker 3: And illuminates.
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  Speaker 2: I just talked about that. It renews us. It reshapes
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  Speaker 2: our perception. It sanctifies us, aligning our us with Christ,
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  Speaker 2: our thoughts with Christ. And then it liberates us, right?
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  Speaker 2: Breaking the power of distorted thinking. breaking the power of
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: distorted thinking. Harriet Tubman has a quote that I absolutely love,
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  Speaker 2: and it's about Harriet Tubman, Moses, Underground Railroad, and all
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  Speaker 2: of that stuff. And what I love about it is,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm looking for it so I don't mess it up,
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  Speaker 2: she talks about you know, the freeing of slaves, you know,
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  Speaker 2: she freed, you know, thousands of slaves. I don't really remember,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: but she says, you know, that she could have freed
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  Speaker 2: thousands more if they had only known that they were slaves.
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  Speaker 2: So that's the liberation, right? That's the breaking the power
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: of the distorted thinking. And that is why Paul says
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  Speaker 2: in 2 Corinthians 10 that we have to take every
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  Speaker 2: thought captive, every thought captive, and make it obedient to Christ.
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  Speaker 2: Not every demon, He doesn't say, cast out your demons.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I would have to do a word study on that
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  Speaker 2: now that I'm thinking about it. Paul doesn't say, take
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: every thought or take every demon captive. He says, take
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  Speaker 2: every thought captive, not every fear. Because the battleground is
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  Speaker 2: in your mind before it is in the world around you.
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  Speaker 1: It's cognitive.
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  Speaker 2: It's thought process more than it is circumstantial. The Spirit
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: forms us by shining light into the places where our
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  Speaker 2: thinking has been shaped by the world instead of by
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: the Word. How many times has your thought process been
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: shaped by the world rather than the Word? So your
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: spiritual formation is It's not the removal of shadows because
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: you can't necessarily take away your shadow, right? But it
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: is the ability to see them correctly. And when I
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: say formation, I'm referring to the continuous and it's often
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: subconscious process where our environment, habits, and choices shape your
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: inner character, desires, and worldview, right? That's what the word
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: formation in this context means. And I think when we,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: so when we talk about spiritual formation, I'm talking about
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  Speaker 2: those habits and practices that help us build our faith
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: or those that help us to see the world correctly
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  Speaker 2: around us through the lens of Christ. So those thought fragments, right?
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  Speaker 2: This is an inner warfare that's going on in our
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  Speaker 2: minds that And I want to explore this a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: So imagine that your shadow behind you is breaking apart. Again,
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  Speaker 2: this is a mind game, a mind exercise. Imagine that
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  Speaker 2: your shadow is breaking apart into fragments. Little pieces are
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  Speaker 2: going upward. They're losing their shape.
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  Speaker 1: Light expands.
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  Speaker 2: It's like blowing apart, right? This is a picture of
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  Speaker 2: our sanctification. Every fragment represents a thought. that has been
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: shaped by something other than Christ. A fear formed by
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: the fall. A lie formed by shame. A narrative formed
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  Speaker 2: by culture. A memory formed by pain. A habit formed
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  Speaker 2: by the flesh. A belief formed by the world. These
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  Speaker 2: fragments are not enemies. They are remnants of deformation. Sanctification
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  Speaker 2: is the spirit breaking these fragments apart. Sanctification is the
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  Speaker 2: spirit exposing them, illuminating them, dissolving them, reinterpreting them, replacing
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  Speaker 2: them with truth. And so this is why scripture emphasizes meditation, remembrance, renewal,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: and truth. Because formation, again, formation refers to the continuous,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: often subconscious process where environment, habits, and choices shape your
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: inner character, desires, and worldview. Again, so that formation happens
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  Speaker 2: at the level of recognition, right? The boogeyman dissolves because
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  Speaker 2: he was never a monster. He was just a cluster
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  Speaker 2: of our own unredeemed thoughts. Romans 12.2, it's the heart
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  Speaker 2: of this. It's a theological center of this conversation, right?
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  Speaker 2: And I alluded to it earlier. Be transformed by the
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: renewing of your mind. So, transformation is not primarily emotional transformation.
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  Speaker 2: It is not primarily behavioral. It is not primarily circumstantial. Primarily,
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  Speaker 2: notice I said primarily, all of those things come into play,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: but it's not the primary point. Those things aren't the
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  Speaker 2: primary point where transformation happens. Transformation happens in your mind. So,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: renewal means replacing lies with truth, replacing fear with revelation,
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  Speaker 2: replacing distortion with clarity, worldly narratives with kingdom ones, shame
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: with identity, replacing confusion with wisdom. This is why repeatedly
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: in Scripture we see commands that tell us to set
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  Speaker 2: our minds on things above. I think that's out of Colossians.
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  Speaker 2: Think on what is true, Philippians 4. Let this mind
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  Speaker 2: be in you which was in Christ Jesus. Whoa.
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  Speaker 1: Let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus. Jesus.
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  Speaker 2: Again, this is about our us being in Christ and
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Christ in us theology there. And then be renewed in
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: the spirit of your mind. That's out of Ephesians. So
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  Speaker 2: the mind is the battleground. The spirit is the reformer.
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  Speaker 2: Truth is the weapon. And shedding light is the method.
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  Speaker 2: And us following Christ is You know, Paul says, follow
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: me as I follow Christ. The word over and over
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  Speaker 2: again calls us to be Christ-like. Because why? Because he's
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: the model. He's the model of a perfect human having
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: a renewed mind. So renewal is the moment when the
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: boogeyman loses his power. Renewal is the moment when the
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: quote unquote boogeyman loses his power because you finally see
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: him for what he is. a shadow cast by a
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: thought that needed redemption. So let me offer a few
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  Speaker 2: theological questions for you, a few reflection questions. Where has
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: the fall shaped your thinking more than the gospel? Where
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: has the fall shaped your thinking more than the gospel?
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe you need to write these down. as I'm saying them,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: just write them down and reflect on them later, meditate
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: on them later. Where has the fall shaped your thinking
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: more than the gospel? What fear has become a shadow
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: that needs illumination? What thought fragment is the spirit trying
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: to break apart? What narrative have you accepted that contradicts scripture?
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  Speaker 2: That's a big one. What narrative has you accepted that
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: contradicts scripture? And where do you need the spirit of
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: truth to shine today? Where do you need the spirit
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  Speaker 2: of truth to shine today? So as you reflect back
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  Speaker 2: on these, as you meditate on these, sit with them
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  Speaker 2: a while. You know, these aren't, you know, take a
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: long walk. A Bible scholar that I listen to regularly,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Tim Mackey, he'll hear something profound and he'll say, well,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I need to take a long walk with a cup
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  Speaker 2: of tea on that. You know, it's okay. These aren't,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: you know, overnight things. Answers necessarily You gotta think them
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: through And with the Holy Spirit's help They'll be revealed
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: The light will Shed You will get light Shed on
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: the darkness So Let me reiterate The boogeyman is not
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  Speaker 2: real The boogeyman is not a demon Okay, there's not
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: a demon around every tree As I'm looking out my
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: window right now, I see like, I don't know, 10 trees.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Easy. Can you imagine?
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  Speaker 2: You know, what would this world be like if there
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: was really a demon behind every tree? It's not like that.
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  Speaker 1: Is there demons? Yes. Is there a spiritual realm? Yes.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Is there a battle going on in the spiritual realm
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: between good and evil?
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Unequivocally, yes. But the reality in which we live here
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: on earth.
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  Speaker 2: There's not a boogeyman behind every corner. Distortion of what
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: is real is there. The fallen mind is, right? The
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: ambient forces. That's why I go back when I went
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: back and talked about, you know.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: That it's not necessarily....
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Real, like spiritual warfare, like everything's spiritual because of the
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: fallen nature and the world in which we live. The
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: powers and principalities have a presence here, but it's not
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: like we think it is, especially in Western Christianity. The
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: bigger issue is the fallen mind. So the boogeyman is
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: not real.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Fear is.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Distortion is. The fallen mind is. And the Holy Spirit,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: if you are a born-again believer in our Lord Jesus Christ,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit is forming you. He's putting inside of
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: you practices and habits and all of these things. He
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: is forming you in the middle of a world that
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: is trying to deform you. He is shining light into
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: the shadows and he is breaking apart the fragments. He
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: is renewing your mind piece by piece. He is restoring
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: your perception so that you can see clearly again. You
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: don't have to fight the monsters. You don't have to
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: fight monsters. You just have to welcome the light. I
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: hope this has blessed you today. Again, I have a
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: book on this topic. It's called Spiritual Logistics. You can
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: pick it up on Amazon. If you've already read the book,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: I would appreciate a review if you would be so kind.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: That just puts the book in front of more people.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: or have you here again next time.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Grace and peace.