Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Coming Home To Heathenry feat. Frodi Ingsson [RHR S6, EP47]

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Coming Home To Heathenry feat. Frodi Ingsson [RHR S6, EP47] · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:01
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:03
  podcast where we discuss all sorts of things Germanic
• 0:07
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse and I'm your
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• 1:10
  Well, hello there everyone, and welcome back to this week's
• 1:13
  episode of the Random Heathen Ramblings podcast.
• 1:15
  And what is that? Sorry, folks, don't know what
• 1:48
  that was about. Technical glitch.
• 1:49
  The ad just ran twice against my own will.
• 1:53
  But anyhow, you heard it twice, so check
• 1:54
  themoutifyouoverhere.com for all your original supplies and
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  goods. But anyway, welcome back to the
• 2:00
  show, and here we go again. All right, we're going to stop
• 2:03
  this. All right, maybe that won't
• 2:44
  happen again. Anyway, for the third time,
• 2:49
  welcome back to the Random Heathen Ramblings podcast and
• 2:54
  hearing that ad three times in a row.
• 2:56
  So anyway, we're back and we're also the second to last episode
• 3:01
  of the season. But if you're listening to this
• 3:03
  show on your audio platforms, you are not going to hear the
• 3:08
  final season of the Random Heathen Ramblings podcast unless
• 3:12
  you come over to Patreon. Because the Season 6 finale,
• 3:16
  which is going to happen on Monday, December 29th, is only
• 3:19
  going to be broadcasted live via Patreon.
• 3:24
  So if you want to experience the Season 6 finale, I have some
• 3:28
  guests that are coming onto the show with me.
• 3:33
  If you want to be a part of that, you need to come over to
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  It is a $1.00 pledge. You don't have to renew after
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  that if you don't want to. But if you've been along for the
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  ride for this long listening or whatever and you want to catch
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  that Season 6 finale experience, head on over to
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  patreon.com/midgarden Musings and become a Carl Tier patron to
• 3:55
  be a part of that. Again, that is Monday, December
• 3:57
  29th. We start streaming live at 7:00
• 4:00
  PM Central time and we're going until whenever don't know, you
• 4:06
  know how long it'll be. It's it's it's the season 6
• 4:09
  finale. So we're just going to we're
• 4:10
  just going to run with it. So hope to see you there.
• 4:13
  All right, enough of that. We've kept my guests waiting for
• 4:15
  long enough because of the technical issues in the long run
• 4:18
  or there at the beginning. But anyways, without further
• 4:21
  ado, we've got my guest for this week.
• 4:23
  His name is Frody Ingson and he is an author.
• 4:27
  He is a heathen. He is a Pagan.
• 4:29
  He is a man, a father, a fella. So welcome to the show Frody.
• 4:34
  Thanks for being here and sorry for that glitches Ness in the in
• 4:38
  the beginning there. I don't know what was going on
• 4:39
  but. Thanks man, I appreciate that.
• 4:44
  I I, it's funny that we were just talking about, you know,
• 4:47
  glitches and it's, this is power like boom boom boom 3.
• 4:50
  It's always something, man. I can't I, I, I would love to
• 4:52
  say that. I like there's, there's, there's
• 4:54
  one time, you know, one show where it's, it just, it's smooth
• 4:57
  sailing. But it goes back to what we were
• 4:59
  talking about offline too here, where we before we were
• 5:03
  recording about that authenticity, right?
• 5:06
  This is authentic. This is reality.
• 5:07
  This is kind of part of the experience that you get, I guess
• 5:10
  when you, when you check out this podcast, you get to see all
• 5:13
  the, the fun hiccups and stuff along the way, 'cause yeah.
• 5:17
  Otherwise, you know, it would, it would be too perfect.
• 5:20
  It'd be too convenient. Anyway, now that we got that out
• 5:25
  of the way. Frody, you are a heathen, right?
• 5:30
  Yeah, and And have been for about how long, you say?
• 5:33
  10 years now. Yeah.
• 5:35
  Oh yeah. Yeah, it was the beginning of,
• 5:38
  well, like kind of the end of 2024, which I'll get into in a
• 5:41
  little bit. But yeah, that's kind of where I
• 5:45
  connected with the runes. And then Heathenry followed
• 5:48
  right after that in 2025, I just started learning mostly like
• 5:53
  aimed through the runes like that was, but it brought me into
• 5:55
  the Hava Mall, brought me into he, you know, some of the sagas
• 5:59
  and then eventually into Heathenry proper.
• 6:01
  So, so it's like all 2025 was, was that kind of transition.
• 6:06
  OK. So all of this year and then you
• 6:09
  say, so you, you said 10 years, you've been 10 years, Pagan.
• 6:13
  202015 sorry, it is 2025 yeah. So 2015 and 2014, like the end
• 6:19
  of that is when. OK, got you.
• 6:21
  Yeah, thanks. No, no, you're fine.
• 6:23
  Because I was like, well, either either he's thinking 2014 and
• 6:26
  2015 or we're, we're our wires are crossed here somewhere.
• 6:30
  So let's get it figured out. Yeah, that's cool, man.
• 6:33
  I, I've, I've, I've hit that decade mark myself in Heathenry
• 6:38
  background in not paganism anything.
• 6:41
  I mean, I, I grew up Christian. I think your background's a bit
• 6:44
  different, right? You had some paganism mixed in
• 6:47
  your background before Heathenry.
• 6:49
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, growing up with
• 6:51
  Christianity was obviously, you know what I grew up with in
• 6:54
  America. Gotcha.
• 6:57
  But, but by kind of like around 15 or so, I started to, you
• 7:03
  know, look into things that weren't Christianity.
• 7:06
  And then by my 20s I was fully on, in on, on both like Eastern
• 7:12
  traditions and, and with like Western paganism and, and, and
• 7:17
  then in my 20s I moved into more the occult with like continental
• 7:22
  magic and ritual and ceremonial stuff.
• 7:24
  So. But that was all mixed in with
• 7:27
  everything else. Sure, I, I've, I've talked to so
• 7:31
  many people who have had parts of their spirituality, the when
• 7:37
  they find out about non traditional religions, you know,
• 7:42
  not the big like Christianity ones and and stuff.
• 7:45
  They, they, they, the occult always finds a place in there
• 7:48
  somehow. Yeah, definitely.
• 7:50
  Definitely, for sure. Yeah.
• 7:52
  'Cause I think when, you know, when you're talking about people
• 7:54
  our age, you know, that far back, it's, you know, there
• 7:58
  wasn't really the Internet. So it's like, well, you go the
• 8:01
  library and and magazines or books and what was what was
• 8:05
  very, very readily accessible, you know, back in like the, I
• 8:09
  don't know, 90s, late 80s, nineties, etcetera was, you
• 8:12
  know, witches and the occult and Wicca and all that stuff that
• 8:15
  was like everywhere. Yeah, yeah.
• 8:17
  You know, that's, that's that was what was big back then.
• 8:20
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 8:22
  Yeah. And then like the library, yeah,
• 8:27
  totally full on. And if you're lucky, which I
• 8:30
  wasn't, but if you were lucky, you might actually find one or
• 8:33
  two other people around that are kind of interested in that stuff
• 8:36
  back then. And that was that was a gift,
• 8:38
  you know, so. Yeah.
• 8:41
  Now did you like where did you, where, where are you originally
• 8:43
  from in the in the States? Have you, have you stayed there
• 8:46
  your whole life? Have you moved around?
• 8:50
  Well, so I was born military base in Germany.
• 8:54
  So I was born in Germany. Actually.
• 8:57
  My mom was like naturalized German and my dad was in the
• 8:59
  military. And then by the time I came
• 9:03
  over, I actually got put into the foster, foster care and
• 9:06
  stuff. And so that landed me in
• 9:08
  California. And I was there for probably
• 9:13
  California up until 19 when I started traveling.
• 9:17
  So 19, like pretty much was always there in California in
• 9:21
  one place or another. And then after that I travelled,
• 9:25
  I lived on the streets and just travelled around.
• 9:27
  So I was from everywhere at that point and a.
• 9:30
  Bit nomadic. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 9:36
  Because I was at that at the end like around 18, I was totally
• 9:39
  into like the juvenile system. And so I and I was bunked up
• 9:45
  with this Pagan kid. So actually I did connect with
• 9:48
  the Pagan early on and he like talked about travelling and in
• 9:56
  my mind I was like, the only way I'm getting out of this system
• 9:59
  is to get the fuck out of here. So I I started living on the
• 10:03
  streets and travelling around and so had winter and you know,
• 10:07
  usually Florida, sometimes California, but I preferred it
• 10:11
  warm and drier. Sure.
• 10:14
  Yeah. So like nowadays, I mean, I live
• 10:17
  in Washington, been here for since 2014, like that that year,
• 10:23
  that's that was a big year for me for sure, 2014.
• 10:27
  Yeah, I love the Pacific Northwest, man.
• 10:29
  I've, I've, I've had the chance to travel.
• 10:31
  Course, I'm in Tennessee and I'm originally from New York State,
• 10:34
  but I've had the chance to travel all over the country for
• 10:37
  a previous line of work that I was in about 15 years ago, give
• 10:45
  or take. And every any chance that I
• 10:48
  could get to go out West because, you know, everything
• 10:52
  east of the Mississippi, it kind of looks the same, you know,
• 10:55
  it's, it's all very similar. And then further out West, you
• 10:58
  go past the Rockies and into the Sierra Nevadas and out there and
• 11:02
  up by you, I'm like, this is, I don't get to see landscape like
• 11:06
  this all the time, you know? So it was like a fresh new
• 11:08
  perspective on things. Nice.
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  Yeah. So it's, it's interesting you
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  say that because I spent, I met my wife long ago, 2020 or two
• 11:21
  years ago now coming up. We lived in Mississippi, We
• 11:27
  lived in North Carolina, Yeah, right.
• 11:31
  Sat outside of Asheville and Fairview for like 10-11 years.
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  So like it, it is different the the environment, but but like
• 11:43
  living out there in the Appalachians, like things are
• 11:47
  deeply layered. Let's do it like and, and so
• 11:50
  when you really, because I'm really into plants, I love
• 11:52
  plants and particular medicinal plants or hallucinogenic ones.
• 11:57
  Yes. So like the diversity plant
• 12:02
  diversity I I think is more on the East Coast than it is on the
• 12:06
  West Coast. Yeah, no, I, I, I have
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  Appalachia Is, is, is really a soft spot for me, man.
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  It's like my home away from home.
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  You know, where I grew up in New York was kind of around the
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  lower, let's say the lower foothills of the Catskill
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  mountain range. So we're talking like the
• 12:27
  Adirondacks and, and, and more like that.
• 12:30
  But every time I go out east to, to Appalachia, I'm reminded of
• 12:36
  those that terrain back from back in New York, right, 'cause
• 12:39
  it was it's very mountainous, very rugged.
• 12:44
  But there's something very special about Appalachia.
• 12:46
  And the more I learned about that landscape and the age of
• 12:51
  the land, it it is, it's literally some of the oldest
• 12:56
  parts of our earth, you know, like the oldest river.
• 13:01
  Yeah, the, the, the second oldest river in the world cuts
• 13:06
  through Appalachia close to a a very dear friend of mine.
• 13:10
  It's called New River or Kanawa, I think is the, the native, the,
• 13:14
  the local native name of the river, but it's called New New
• 13:18
  River. And the only river older than
• 13:20
  the New River is the Nile. So, yeah.
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  And I've, I've, I've waded across that river.
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  I've I've, you know, ritually washed in that river.
• 13:29
  It's, it's, it's special man, that that land is it's powerful,
• 13:34
  powerful energy there. Wow.
• 13:37
  Well, do you know where it originates from?
• 13:39
  Or I mean, you know, the main kind of.
• 13:44
  Well, I mean, I know that Appalachia is like, it's part of
• 13:48
  that, that that where the the land split in Africa.
• 13:53
  So like that the land that's as old as it is the only the only
• 13:57
  oldest, the only other older or as old place that you can touch
• 14:01
  on Earth would have to, you have to go to the African continent
• 14:04
  to do that all. Right, that's wild.
• 14:07
  And I I just read an article where like the the Africa is
• 14:11
  like splitting some of the I think there was like talking
• 14:14
  about the southern some of the southern part.
• 14:16
  So just because of, you know, we're, you know, the tectonics
• 14:19
  and everything's just move and I mean it's.
• 14:22
  Yeah. There's Salive, you know.
• 14:24
  Sure, yeah, it's it's old energy.
• 14:26
  It's it's a old medicine. It's it's it's definitely and I
• 14:30
  haven't been back out out your way in like I said, probably.
• 14:33
  Well, it's been over a decade because I used to travel almost
• 14:36
  every weekend for work and it would take me all over the
• 14:41
  place. So but I haven't done that work
• 14:43
  in over a decade. But it's so the end, like I
• 14:46
  wasn't as tuned into my life like I am now with with the
• 14:50
  animistic side of things, you know?
• 14:52
  For sure. Isn't that the beautiful thing
• 14:54
  about it? You know, it's like we have that
• 14:56
  contrast in our in our western society is 'cause I grew up like
• 15:01
  concrete, I mean small concrete jungle, little little town.
• 15:04
  But you know, 'cause it most, most aware of my adoption aimed
• 15:10
  at was like this town Simi Valley, which is a tripped out
• 15:13
  weird Valley City for sure. But and then Ventura County was
• 15:19
  like all over that, so yeah. But California's wild anyway,
• 15:25
  man. Just in general.
• 15:26
  Yeah. Like that was the one play I
• 15:30
  like. I I I didn't not like going
• 15:32
  there, but I also was like, man, do I have to like, do we have to
• 15:35
  hit Cali? Like can't we just hit like
• 15:37
  Nevada and Arizona and maybe Oregon?
• 15:41
  Nice, something like that. So the nicer places do we have
• 15:44
  to go into Cali? Yeah, some, some of my stomping
• 15:48
  grounds like so New Mexico, Arizona, Sedona, Prescott would
• 15:54
  be like and sometimes Flagstaff. And then New Mexico is like
• 15:58
  Santa Fe and Taos. Those were I throughout like
• 16:02
  during my travels because I did it for about 6 years just
• 16:06
  hitching around. I would always fall because that
• 16:10
  stuff is wildly magical for me. Like, I always consider those,
• 16:16
  like, spiraling energies. It just takes you on this like
• 16:19
  insane, like that high desert feels.
• 16:23
  Yeah. So I, I love that area too.
• 16:26
  Like, I love that area. Yeah.
• 16:29
  Yeah. Where I just find this blast,
• 16:31
  where we're at in this part of the world, 'cause we have
• 16:34
  everything here, you know, we have deserts and mountains and
• 16:38
  rainforests and swamps and, you know, yeah.
• 16:42
  Yeah. Oh, you talk about Washington
• 16:43
  state mean the, the, the. No, I'm going countrywide down
• 16:47
  just. Country.
• 16:48
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I, I don't, yeah,
• 16:51
  I mean, Utah's amazing, but I, so I have a story for for you
• 16:55
  with Tennessee, right. So I have a couple times where
• 16:59
  I, I would end up in Knoxville, TN is mostly where I'd be.
• 17:05
  And so the first time, the first time I was in Tennessee, I
• 17:10
  connected with this busload of hippies that were parked or
• 17:17
  broken down, parked in front of someone's house.
• 17:20
  So I connected with them and, and someone called the
• 17:25
  neighbors, right. And so the police come and we're
• 17:28
  all getting pulled out. And I'm not new to traveling at
• 17:31
  this point. Maybe I've been on it for one or
• 17:32
  two years. Yeah, one or two.
• 17:35
  That sounds about right. But yeah, so I wasn't full on
• 17:40
  street smart with some things and I didn't understand
• 17:42
  everything that was going on at that point.
• 17:45
  So the cops, there's a bunch of them.
• 17:47
  They've like pull us all off. They're going to search the bus,
• 17:50
  which of course there's drugs in there, of course.
• 17:53
  And then some someone starts, someone starts itching
• 17:56
  themselves and then a bunch of people are itching themselves
• 18:01
  and I'm like, what the fuck's going?
• 18:02
  Like what is going on? If people are itching
• 18:04
  themselves? And so then a cop asking like,
• 18:06
  why is everybody itching? They're like, we got scabies.
• 18:09
  I've never seen police officers get off the bus so quickly and
• 18:13
  run out, tell us to get the house.
• 18:15
  So but it turns out, no, there was no scabies.
• 18:18
  They were just doing that to get the cops out of the bus.
• 18:20
  But like, you know, I don't even know what scabies were at that
• 18:23
  time. So after that I was like, what
• 18:25
  is that? You know, I'm kind of freaked
• 18:27
  out a little. Bit.
• 18:30
  So. That's such a wild thing to go
• 18:32
  with, though It did like scabies.
• 18:33
  I don't that'd be like, you know, like leprosy, you know,
• 18:36
  like just some like off the wall thing that doesn't exist
• 18:39
  anymore, like something so archaic, you know, what are you
• 18:41
  pirates? You know, like when you scabies,
• 18:43
  you know. Yeah, well, I'm I so I had
• 18:47
  later, later, later in in a in a jail, actually, I got scabies,
• 18:52
  yeah. It's not.
• 18:53
  It's more common, people think. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I would be
• 18:58
  running off that bus too from so, yeah.
• 19:02
  And then, and then one more, one more thing I want to share with
• 19:04
  about Tennessee is, is it's the first time I've ever been in a
• 19:08
  bamboo forest. And it was the place that I
• 19:14
  connected with music for the first time in my life.
• 19:17
  So like I, I come across didgeridoos and, and I wanted to
• 19:23
  make one. And I just came into this.
• 19:25
  I mean, it was a bamboo forest. Like I could imagine pandas in
• 19:28
  there was so big and I'm, I made the, the made of didgeridoo out
• 19:36
  of bamboo. And I was at this party,
• 19:39
  everybody was raging and I just for some reason was this like,
• 19:42
  I'm just going to skip this party and I want to learn how to
• 19:46
  play didgeridoo. And then, and that was the
• 19:48
  moment that I connected with music.
• 19:51
  Up until that point, I couldn't carry a beat.
• 19:53
  I like I, I mean, I'm still like, I'm not really fluent on
• 19:57
  modern music. But just being able to play and
• 20:02
  let go and let my spirit flow, you know, like that energy is is
• 20:07
  and that I owe that to Tennessee.
• 20:09
  So yeah, for sure. You know, and I'm not a native
• 20:13
  here, but I've been here for 20 some years.
• 20:15
  I've been here for a little over 20 years.
• 20:17
  I moved down here in New York from New York in the mid 2000s
• 20:21
  and it was, you know, growing up in New York, I grew up a lot
• 20:25
  because when I first moved here, man, a lot of people when I told
• 20:28
  them I was from New York, they're like, oh, from the city.
• 20:30
  And I'm like, you know, my, my accent may think, make you think
• 20:35
  that, you know, but I'm from Long Island.
• 20:38
  So like there's, there's more there were there used to be more
• 20:41
  potato farms and pine barrens and stuff on on the island than
• 20:45
  anything. But if you talk like the, the
• 20:48
  entire state of the, of New York, the percentage of what the
• 20:51
  city, it makes that whole state is like less than 1% of the
• 20:56
  whole size. It's mostly mountains and rural
• 21:00
  areas and, and country, right? And so when so like I grew up
• 21:05
  hunting, fishing, you know, I didn't want to go to the mall or
• 21:10
  play video games as a kid or do any of those things.
• 21:12
  I wanted to be out in the woods. I wanted to be out in nature.
• 21:16
  So it was when I moved to Tennessee, I thought I'll fit
• 21:19
  right in, you know, all the, you know, 'cause again, I, I wasn't
• 21:23
  well traveled back then. I was in my, you know, early
• 21:25
  20s. I had a pretty closed off life
• 21:27
  as a youngster. So when I came to Tennessee, I'm
• 21:30
  like, I had this like preconceived notion of like
• 21:32
  bunch of banjos and rednecks and stuff, You know what I mean?
• 21:35
  Country music. And, but when I moved down and I
• 21:41
  first kind of was like immersed with how people are and just the
• 21:45
  cultural difference, right? Just the way Southerners are
• 21:48
  versus northerners. And I was like, wow, I really
• 21:52
  have a lot to learn. And I've, but I've, I've, I've
• 21:55
  really, I've learned a lot since I've been here and I've, I've, I
• 21:58
  like it. I like it a lot.
• 21:59
  I like where I live now. I live right near a river.
• 22:03
  I'm, I'm pretty much on the Stones River practically.
• 22:06
  I can just walk a short distance and I'm right there.
• 22:10
  I can be in it, on it, around it as often as I want to.
• 22:14
  So I like that. And yeah, it's just that it's
• 22:19
  there's and there's, you know, we have so many different
• 22:21
  natural wonders. You know, there's dozens of of
• 22:25
  parks with waterfalls and trails.
• 22:28
  And it's a beautiful state really is, you know, hopefully
• 22:33
  you get a chance to come back and experience some of that
• 22:35
  someday. But any who, now that we know a
• 22:39
  little bit about each other and our backgrounds, you were
• 22:41
  talking earlier about, you know, being born in another country
• 22:46
  because your dad was in the military.
• 22:48
  And then you talked about you had been integrated into the,
• 22:55
  the, the foster system or adoptions.
• 22:57
  Like you even you lived around, you had to move around or, or,
• 22:59
  you know, you ended up living on the streets a lot.
• 23:01
  So it makes me think of when I was because you wrote a book and
• 23:04
  I have a direction I'm going in with this question.
• 23:06
  But you wrote a book recently that you share with me and it's
• 23:09
  called Coming Home to Heathenry. But in the book you, you talk
• 23:14
  about struggles along your path, some of some of which you
• 23:17
  mentioned in in your book that you talked about today being in
• 23:20
  the, the system. But I was going to ask you like
• 23:25
  with, with, with that, like are there particular, is there like
• 23:29
  particular challenges or, or particular moments in your life
• 23:32
  that really kind of shaped your understanding of Heathenry, you
• 23:41
  know, or your, or yourself per SE lately, maybe not necessarily
• 23:45
  Heathenry alone, but just, you know, the, the, the things that
• 23:48
  happened, struggles along the way, particular challenges that
• 23:51
  helped kind of shape your understanding of, of who you
• 23:55
  are. And she kind of lived on that.
• 24:00
  Where do I belong? Stage of life, You know what I
• 24:02
  mean? Right.
• 24:05
  Oh geez, man, I've had a lot of moments that have shifted my
• 24:15
  reality and and the direction of my life and perception of
• 24:20
  reality itself. Yeah, I mean in in with
• 24:25
  relevance to Heathenry like. So this is a little bit more
• 24:29
  background. I mean, like it preceded me
• 24:35
  falling at, so I worked at a warehouse at that point in my in
• 24:38
  life and I wasn't where I was supposed to be.
• 24:42
  And I fell through a grate just straight down 15 feet and landed
• 24:45
  on my torso. And, and so that like, yeah, it
• 24:48
  said landed me in ICU. Like I was pretty much, you
• 24:51
  know, dead from everybody's perspective.
• 24:54
  And, and so, so that kind of like 'cause we in it.
• 25:00
  So 2014 we just moved to Washington.
• 25:04
  So we, like I said earlier, my wife and I were met in North
• 25:08
  North Carolina and then for a year we lived up in Virginia
• 25:13
  with her dad to help because we were kind of an uncertain part
• 25:18
  of our lives with money and stuff.
• 25:20
  And, and he was trying to sell a business.
• 25:22
  So it was just like perfect mutual kind of all right, we'll
• 25:25
  move up there, help you sell the business, get a little bit of
• 25:27
  money on top of that, and then decide where we wanted to go
• 25:30
  'cause we were wanting to come back West, 'cause, you know,
• 25:35
  this is kind of where I'm from and that's where my wife, you
• 25:37
  know, she wanted to be. Sure.
• 25:39
  So it was time we'd done the year, sold the business, had
• 25:44
  some money, and I kind of was just leaving it up to the
• 25:49
  spirit, you know, at that point for me, you know, I just looked
• 25:53
  at it, you know, father, son, you know, Mother Earth.
• 25:55
  It's kind of like the the where I was at that time of my life.
• 25:59
  So I just like gave it all. I'm like, all right, where are
• 26:02
  we going? And we, strangely enough, left
• 26:04
  it up to the Super Bowl because at that time, I'm, I I'm a
• 26:11
  proponent of smoking herb. Like, that's just a big part of
• 26:14
  my life in lots of different ways.
• 26:16
  Yeah. But at that time, it was it was
• 26:19
  Colorado and Washington were the only legal states.
• 26:23
  And that's who was in the Super Bowl.
• 26:25
  So I was like, that's where we're going.
• 26:28
  Yeah. And then so then it just, it
• 26:30
  seemed like you, we were being guided.
• 26:33
  It was like we were going to go to Olympia and then the trip
• 26:37
  across just slowly like chipped away at all our savings.
• 26:41
  Everything just happened. Then we got to Washington.
• 26:44
  Olympia rejected us like outright.
• 26:46
  It was just like energy and situational stuff.
• 26:50
  So it pushed us down a little bit South and yeah.
• 26:55
  And then our girls, cuz our two youngest were with us, got
• 26:59
  really sick. So they're in a hospital, so
• 27:01
  motels and sleeping in our truck again.
• 27:03
  And it just, we're at rock bottom.
• 27:05
  Like basically we got on food stamps and like Medicaid and we
• 27:11
  weren't begging, but we were close.
• 27:16
  Yeah. So then so after being stripped
• 27:20
  down, this is kind of my experience with Washington and
• 27:22
  I've talked to a few other people that have had similar
• 27:24
  experiences where I came to Washington and it just, it
• 27:28
  strips you to nothing, like leaves you just broken and just
• 27:32
  bare. And then like after you've
• 27:35
  reached this point, then we met some amazing people and
• 27:39
  connected through a community. And then Washington changed and
• 27:42
  it loves us, right. But so then we got in an
• 27:45
  apartment and then I fell at work.
• 27:47
  And. And so that was like the lead up
• 27:50
  to what was going on in my life at that point.
• 27:52
  And. Yeah, so then it was December of
• 27:56
  2014 to get the year right that yeah, December I was just kind
• 28:05
  of. I've returned home and I
• 28:07
  remember sitting on the bed and my, my, my wife, who we've been
• 28:11
  together 22 years now, but prior to meeting me, she had been
• 28:15
  connecting with the runes just as a divinational and like a
• 28:19
  tool for self cultivation. And so in the back of my mind, I
• 28:25
  never got into the, the Germanic Nordic kind of systems of magic
• 28:30
  or philosophy like that. That wasn't really part of my
• 28:34
  reality because I was, you know, more until like at that point
• 28:40
  the occult. But I had always said I wanted
• 28:44
  to learn the runes. So I, I remember sitting on the
• 28:47
  bed and she was using the runes and she pulled out geese.
• 28:54
  And I don't remember what the reading was about, but I had
• 28:58
  before my accident when we moved into the apartment, we had
• 29:02
  restrung our our drum. We had a jimbei or we have the
• 29:05
  jimbei and, and I've been wanting to connect with the elk.
• 29:08
  So I put an elk skin on the drum and I had the trimmings
• 29:13
  leftover. So when she pulled that like
• 29:15
  something, just a bunch of shit clicked all at once, like click,
• 29:18
  click, click, click. And I was like, it's time to
• 29:21
  connect with the runes. I so I ran, I got the, the the
• 29:24
  little strippings of elk skin and cut a little piece and, and
• 29:27
  right there. I mean, I know that like Algae's
• 29:29
  is more suited with it and a plan and elk Reed, but I
• 29:33
  definitely associate with elk myself.
• 29:35
  Yeah, yeah. So, so it was like that was the
• 29:38
  beginning right there. And, and then so for about six
• 29:45
  months or so, I've been, I just was coming off my back from this
• 29:49
  accident and slowly like getting into a place of, of getting on
• 29:55
  my feet and healing and getting my strength back and eventually,
• 29:59
  you know, going back to work somewhere.
• 30:01
  And so, so that was like a major moment in my life that was
• 30:10
  instrumental towards my movement and heathen me right there.
• 30:12
  And it's like it totally changed my life and in numerous ways.
• 30:16
  Yeah. So, so yeah.
• 30:19
  So that's I think that answers the question.
• 30:21
  Yeah, that's, that's quite the quite the back story, man, to
• 30:24
  take to to take us from, you know, what you talked about at
• 30:29
  the beginning with your in your youth, you know, and, and how
• 30:32
  you revert displaced and living on the streets to coming out to
• 30:37
  a totally different part of the country, having something happen
• 30:40
  that could really just, you know, put put push you to the
• 30:44
  breaking point. You know, all these challenges
• 30:47
  with kids and especially like, and then to find your purpose,
• 30:51
  you know, to find that new renewed sense of direction
• 30:55
  through the runes. And then that kind of put you on
• 30:59
  the trajectory into Heathenry. That's a very unique origin
• 31:04
  story into Heathenry. So much of what I hear is like,
• 31:07
  you know, I was raised Christian and I didn't really like that.
• 31:12
  So then I got into Wicca and I didn't really like that.
• 31:15
  So then I got into the occult and that was weird.
• 31:17
  And then I read and then I saw Vikings, you know, or something
• 31:20
  along those lines. And you know, but so then that's
• 31:23
  a really, really profound, but almost saga like, you know what
• 31:27
  I mean? Your your your story is.
• 31:29
  It's like the the the subject of sagas.
• 31:32
  Right. Yeah.
• 31:35
  Sometimes it feels like that. I bet yeah.
• 31:37
  Well, that's, you know, I, I always say that that we have, we
• 31:40
  do, we live in saga times and, and how much of our own stories
• 31:43
  can become a saga, our own sagas, right to tell to, to our
• 31:48
  own people And whether it's family and, you know, but, but
• 31:52
  whether by blood or, or by adoption or fostering or, you
• 31:56
  know, community, 'cause, you know, family means more than
• 32:00
  just who is blood related. I'm sure you feel the same way.
• 32:05
  Just from your background and your experience, you know, that
• 32:07
  family is more than just blood kin.
• 32:11
  I mean, we have relatives in the plant Kingdom and the animal
• 32:14
  Kingdom in, in all the various families.
• 32:19
  You know what I mean? You look at it that way.
• 32:23
  They're all we're all sharing in a relationship.
• 32:28
  And it, I mean, just building off of that, that it's that
• 32:34
  connection and expansion of our like, you know, because I for
• 32:40
  me, when we've connected with someone, we've extended ourself
• 32:45
  a little bit, you know, we, a part of us is with them and a
• 32:49
  part of them is with us. And, and that growth, you know,
• 32:55
  just, I mean, that's, that's what we need.
• 32:57
  That's really one of the things I think we need a lot of is that
• 33:01
  direct connection, because when we do that, you know, our
• 33:04
  reality grows and things get better in my mind.
• 33:08
  You know, I think it feeds more into the way that we were meant
• 33:11
  to exist all along as humans. You know what I mean?
• 33:16
  We're we're social creatures and, and we are best.
• 33:20
  We are at our best when we share meaningful moments with others.
• 33:25
  You know what I mean, to be solitary or to be isolated, I
• 33:30
  mean it, there's a place for that and there's times for that
• 33:32
  and there, and it's a necessary, sometimes it's even a necessary
• 33:35
  part of our growth to be able to integrate and, and work with
• 33:39
  others and, and be, you know, bring something to the table,
• 33:43
  you know, and, and share. Like you say, it's an exchange.
• 33:47
  If there's, it's reciprocal, it's, it's not just, I'm going
• 33:50
  to take what I can and not give anything in return.
• 33:52
  It's you give and take, and there's that back and forth
• 33:57
  reciprocity, right? Yeah.
• 34:01
  Yeah, that that's actually one of the things with Heathenry
• 34:04
  that that really feels true, right?
• 34:09
  Like that. That's the sense the title you
• 34:11
  had mentioned is it's coming to coming home to that, those kind
• 34:15
  of truths, that sense of right, like you know that which is
• 34:18
  right to me. Like it feels right.
• 34:20
  Everything's except it. It's something that naturally I
• 34:26
  wasn't taught. I just, I don't know if I did it
• 34:29
  because of a coping mechanism as a child or what, but but the
• 34:34
  that desire to give and and if someone gives, it's like, I just
• 34:39
  want to give not because of some manipulative stance, but just
• 34:43
  out of genuine sense of like, that's right to me.
• 34:48
  Yeah, yeah. Excuse me?
• 34:52
  Yeah, there's a, there's always, I feel like a, a careful place
• 34:59
  to, to find oneself with, with giving.
• 35:02
  I mean, 'cause there's, there's people like perhaps you
• 35:04
  yourself, or I know my wife is another one who is so giving of
• 35:09
  themselves, right? They, they, they have such a
• 35:10
  kindness about them and they're so free of giving of themselves,
• 35:17
  right? That they always want to help.
• 35:18
  They always want to do for it. And it's like sometimes to the
• 35:21
  to the detriment of themselves. And I'm like, man, you know,
• 35:26
  it's, it's one thing to be kind, it's one thing to, to give and,
• 35:29
  and to be helpful. But I, you know, just be careful
• 35:32
  about how much of yourself that you give, if it's causing your
• 35:37
  own demise, Like how, how, how, how helpful is that really?
• 35:42
  You can't pour from an empty cup.
• 35:44
  And if all you're doing is ever is just pouring yourself out and
• 35:47
  you're not replenishing, you know, with anything to, to
• 35:52
  continue in that way. And so much of that
• 35:54
  replenishment is yes, it's, it's on ourselves.
• 35:57
  We, you know, self-care is important.
• 35:59
  We have to take care of ourselves, but also with the
• 36:02
  people who we're with, right? That they're, that we're not
• 36:04
  just 'cause people are mean, right?
• 36:06
  They, they, they take advantage of, of goodness.
• 36:09
  A lot of times, you know, at least in the world nowadays,
• 36:14
  it's, you know, people don't, they don't, they don't, they
• 36:19
  don't find that balance. It's, you know, what can you do
• 36:21
  for me? What can I get from you instead
• 36:24
  of what can I do for you? And how can I help you?
• 36:26
  And how can I, you know, be helpful?
• 36:31
  Yeah, I I'd talk about that, right.
• 36:33
  And and the lessons that I've learned in my journey of toward,
• 36:36
  in, in heathen is, is, is that like underbelly of depleting
• 36:42
  ourselves as you say, or if you taking advantage?
• 36:45
  And those are those are definitely things that I've come
• 36:49
  across so many times. And it took me a long time.
• 36:54
  I mean, I can't really point to like when exactly it was more
• 36:56
  like a transitional thing. But it took me a long time to
• 36:59
  realize the to yeah, it's like, I'll give, but if it's not
• 37:06
  reciprocated, and then I give and it's not reciprocated and
• 37:08
  it's just like, I'm not going to waste my energy and time.
• 37:11
  On. Building a relationship with
• 37:13
  this is just like, it's just depleting, you know?
• 37:16
  Yeah. And that, yeah.
• 37:19
  So that, yeah, that's another major thing I think something.
• 37:24
  So it's interesting going off of that.
• 37:29
  It's interesting because not all times has reciprocation not
• 37:35
  returned to me because of some kind of just selfishness or
• 37:38
  vampire or whatever, you know, like whatever it, whatever thing
• 37:41
  they are that doesn't reciprocate.
• 37:44
  Could be entitlement or I don't know, you know, could be in a
• 37:46
  number of things. But I have found that sometimes
• 37:51
  it's just the knowledge like we're just so caught up in like,
• 37:56
  like for instance, online, the content, we just, there's just
• 37:58
  so much, there is a lot of good content out there.
• 38:01
  And it's just like, and, and I know for myself, I just, I get
• 38:04
  as much as I can. So I'm grabbing from everything
• 38:07
  and, and, and so there's not that sense of like, OK, if I
• 38:11
  keep coming back to this one individual, I feel like I should
• 38:16
  honor them in some way, right? Like there's but because it's
• 38:19
  like the Internet is so like it is just what it is.
• 38:23
  People, I don't think people think about it really.
• 38:26
  Or like, if you know, even just on a person in person situation,
• 38:30
  like I've hosted many, many partners over the year, you
• 38:33
  know, and people like, they just don't think about it.
• 38:38
  And so, but then you're like, I learned to ask, you know, when
• 38:42
  I, I don't really host celebrations at this point in my
• 38:46
  life, but but when I was like, I learned to just ask.
• 38:50
  And almost always people are like, oh, yeah, yeah, of course.
• 38:53
  Like, you know, so I and I, it's just not something that we teach
• 38:57
  in general, that sense of reciprocation.
• 38:59
  At least I didn't grow up with that sense.
• 39:03
  Yeah, No, I think that's a valid observation because for me
• 39:07
  personally also the the the environment that I grew up in
• 39:11
  and the lifestyle that I was raised in taught the values of,
• 39:19
  you know, you look out for one another.
• 39:21
  You know, if somebody has need of something and you have it to
• 39:25
  give, then you give it freely. And then that person out of
• 39:29
  thanks will look to return the favor, you know.
• 39:35
  So there's, it was, it was a, the, there were values that were
• 39:39
  woven into the, the world views of, of the community that I was
• 39:43
  raised and that, you know, had to be taught.
• 39:45
  Yes, But when, when I left all that and I went out into the
• 39:49
  wider world and I'm like, why aren't people thinking like
• 39:51
  this, 'cause this is all I ever knew.
• 39:53
  I learned like, wow, this is not something that is, this isn't
• 39:56
  natural to, to so many. This has to be, this is
• 39:59
  something that needs to be taught because it of the way the
• 40:02
  world is. It's it's everybody's out for
• 40:03
  themselves and, and it's what me, me, me, me and.
• 40:07
  Right. You know.
• 40:09
  So, yeah, I've experienced that my own way too, man, where you
• 40:15
  just go and then, but it is refreshing, right?
• 40:17
  When you are with the right people and they think in those
• 40:20
  ways, you're aligned in that way.
• 40:23
  So you're, you're not on the same wavelengths, right?
• 40:25
  You're not on the same paths, but you're riding enough of the
• 40:29
  same current where we get along well enough that we, we, we
• 40:33
  think a little similar ways. And we're, we're thinking along
• 40:35
  those lines and, and, and we're therefore cultivating our
• 40:39
  relationship in that way. Nice.
• 40:42
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Agreed.
• 40:45
  Yeah. So what what was the I'm always
• 40:48
  curious to see because you know, you this book here coming home
• 40:51
  to Heathenry, it was just published this year, 2025,
• 40:56
  right? Yeah, yeah.
• 40:57
  No, this isn't your first publication, though you've
• 41:00
  you've you've authored a couple other books.
• 41:03
  Yeah. Or more than a couple.
• 41:05
  Maybe you want to talk about what some of your other.
• 41:11
  So what was my first one? So OK, so during in 2015, I was
• 41:22
  going healing. I was healing.
• 41:23
  And like like I said earlier, I was into the Eastern traditions
• 41:27
  a lot and throughout my 20s and 30s.
• 41:29
  And part of that was was yoga. And so I just started on my back
• 41:38
  because I pretty much for the first month and a half, I was
• 41:41
  laying in front of the baseboard floor heater just been doped
• 41:45
  out. Oh, from your injury from.
• 41:48
  Yeah, yeah, that was, that was probably my first month, month
• 41:52
  and a half about I, I, it's all foggy, but, but at some point I
• 41:57
  started to stretch on my back. And, you know, I, I've, I've
• 42:04
  studied multiple different runic traditions and branches.
• 42:08
  And, and so the one that I was working with was just a really
• 42:11
  gentle kind of healing approach that works with breath and body
• 42:15
  energy. And so I, I started on my back
• 42:20
  and, and then over a couple months, basically, I got to a
• 42:25
  point where I can kind of sit up and start doing some stretches.
• 42:31
  And at that time I was just reading every book I can get on
• 42:35
  on, on the ruins. Like from every tradition, you
• 42:39
  know, everything from just your, you know, traditionalist, you
• 42:46
  know, the archaeological perspective and, and Romanus.
• 42:49
  So you know, some of that early Germanic cult tradition to
• 42:53
  modern fusionist to like fluid ginger, anything and everything
• 42:58
  I could on the ruins and I came across Edra Thorson or Edra, I
• 43:06
  can't remember. Edra.
• 43:07
  Yeah. Edra Thorson.
• 43:08
  Stephen Flowers. Yeah, Stephen Flowers and he
• 43:12
  just had like 3 pages on rune yoga.
• 43:14
  Like it was just basically the stances and and so that like
• 43:19
  that was the beginning of me standing up, like where I was
• 43:22
  able to like stand up for any amount of time.
• 43:26
  And so I like worked for my back over a few months span to
• 43:31
  standing up to holding these runic postures as an extension
• 43:37
  of of what I was doing with my other exercises and and
• 43:42
  movements and whatever. Yeah.
• 43:44
  So that, so my first book was basically codifying.
• 43:48
  So I think 2026, I don't remember the year, I'm sorry,
• 43:56
  but I, I said I'm going to do a rune video every two weeks to,
• 44:04
  to kind of solidify my own rune yoga system, which focuses more
• 44:09
  on movements rather than static postures.
• 44:11
  But so I, I did this, you know, a bunch of rune yoga videos and,
• 44:20
  and then the think, I think the next year or maybe that year, I
• 44:25
  wrote a book about it as a way to kind of, and it, it was like,
• 44:28
  it's one of three originally planned books that I told Odin I
• 44:32
  was going to write. Oh yeah.
• 44:35
  Yeah, like it so, So yeah. So the rune yoga was the first
• 44:42
  of those books and then and then the second one.
• 44:47
  It's not one of the three, but I did a rune correspondence book.
• 44:51
  I couldn't just like grabbed all the books.
• 44:54
  I read hundreds of books and websites and videos and stuff
• 44:58
  and I just condensed all the correspondences like what people
• 45:01
  associate with each of the runes.
• 45:04
  So I just made that a print form because so that I can have
• 45:07
  access to it easy. So I kind of did that just for
• 45:10
  myself, but I was like, I bet other people would like it too.
• 45:14
  So, and then the 2nd or the 3rd, the 3rd book, which is the
• 45:20
  second of the three was on the Hova Mall.
• 45:23
  And and that grew like I, I first, of course, like soon
• 45:29
  after learning, you know, connecting with the runes, I, of
• 45:31
  course, you know, read about like how they came, like what's
• 45:34
  the myth, What's the story that we have?
• 45:37
  Yeah. Which brought me to the Hova
• 45:38
  Mall. So the Hova Mall's like been in
• 45:41
  my heathenry from the beginning. I didn't know anything about
• 45:45
  anything. I didn't know about Vikings, I
• 45:47
  didn't know about North Norse tradition, none of that.
• 45:52
  I just, I knew the runes, what people were saying in, you know,
• 45:55
  their books and the Hava Mall. Like that was like my first year
• 45:58
  of Heathenry was the runes in the Hava Mall.
• 46:03
  So that's always been part of it.
• 46:05
  And then a couple years back I was finishing my bachelor's and
• 46:09
  I did an independent study to to study the Hava Mall and get
• 46:13
  credit for it, which was sweet deal.
• 46:17
  Yeah, you can't beat that. Right.
• 46:18
  No, no. So then through that process, I
• 46:21
  was like, oh, I, I should just print this and make it, you
• 46:26
  know, like, you know, 'cause I was going to write a second book
• 46:29
  in the Hava Mall. This is what it turned into.
• 46:31
  And so then I, yeah, I just did a big study on the Hava Mall in
• 46:37
  school and just connected with it, right.
• 46:43
  Not just not just the philosophy or the worldview or, but but
• 46:47
  like reading these stories or, or these pithy wise teachings
• 46:56
  and be like, Oh yeah, shit, yeah, that happened to me.
• 46:59
  Yeah. I go oh.
• 47:00
  Yeah, yeah, really so finding. It was, it was the relationship,
• 47:04
  right? I was relating it to my life.
• 47:07
  And so it became part of so like, to me like that the title
• 47:11
  of that book is embodying Odin's wisdom, right?
• 47:13
  Like that is this, this wisdom that's been passed down from our
• 47:17
  ancestors. And yeah, like, that's it for
• 47:22
  me. Like, that's another part of
• 47:24
  coming home because it's it's just like, yeah, I connect.
• 47:28
  It just makes sense. I've had that experience.
• 47:31
  You know, I agree with that wisdom.
• 47:34
  You know, like in the Hava Mall, everything has to talk about
• 47:37
  friendships and it's just like, yeah, yeah.
• 47:41
  Or traveling and like having the experience of connecting with
• 47:45
  other people than our little closed circles that we surround
• 47:48
  ourselves with because it it's comfortable.
• 47:51
  Yeah. And.
• 47:52
  Yeah. So.
• 47:54
  So. Yeah.
• 47:54
  So that. So that was my third book.
• 47:56
  And then just this year, it's been 10 years and I wanted to
• 48:01
  reflect on where I'm at and what Heathenry means to me and like
• 48:07
  where I'm going. And that's where this last, this
• 48:10
  book grew out of is, is that reflection and, and
• 48:16
  clarification 'cause it like I could definitely just again, I,
• 48:20
  I thanked you earlier, but I definitely want to thank you
• 48:22
  just in front of everybody of how grateful I am for your
• 48:25
  content. And cause I've learned a lot.
• 48:27
  You know, there's a lot of terms that for instance, Frith or, or
• 48:31
  luck or, you know, these things, but I've definitely heard your
• 48:34
  what you're saying, you know, and it's like, yeah, so so yeah,
• 48:38
  that part of it was like solidifying these these world
• 48:42
  term worldview terms that kind of like structure, the way we
• 48:45
  interact, interact with the world and and yeah, how we
• 48:49
  experience the world, you know, so.
• 48:52
  Yeah, I appreciate you saying that it with regards to, you
• 48:56
  know, the content that I've put out and and how you find value
• 49:01
  with it. And I do also want to say, you
• 49:04
  know, for the folks that listen or watch this episode, right,
• 49:07
  for Fruity's books, you know, to, he's talking all about them.
• 49:11
  We'll have links to get his, his books.
• 49:14
  If you want to get a copy on Amazon or wherever, we'll, we'll
• 49:19
  put links in the description or the show notes.
• 49:21
  So, so check it out. But I, you know, again, I have a
• 49:24
  copy of coming home to Heathenry and like, one of the big things
• 49:27
  that I was really like, kind of impressed with man is, is, is
• 49:31
  just like, as much as you go into 'cause you know, you've got
• 49:37
  everything from, you know, world views to, to such terms like
• 49:42
  you're talking about right? Or, or, or conceptual things.
• 49:45
  The gifting cycle, luck and worth and Frith and the soul
• 49:50
  complex and rituals and, and magic and our relationship with
• 49:56
  the gods and, and the stories right at the Eddas and the
• 49:59
  sagas. Like it's, it's all like for,
• 50:02
  for, for it being as you know, we're talking like how many
• 50:06
  pages 100 and some pages, you know, but not including the
• 50:12
  glossary, like you talking like 100 pages or so.
• 50:14
  It's it's, it doesn't feel like you're rushing through it, but
• 50:18
  the like the sections that you gave for each thing I thought
• 50:21
  were really like, it was enough. Like it was, it was a, it was a
• 50:25
  great for somebody who maybe like, what is this about?
• 50:29
  What is Heathenry about? I would say, well read coming
• 50:32
  home to Heathenry and you get a pretty good idea.
• 50:35
  You know, you'll get, you'll get one person's experience with it,
• 50:38
  but you'll also learn about some really core things that make
• 50:44
  what Heathenry what it is. You know, 'cause you're not just
• 50:46
  talking up from your own experience.
• 50:48
  You're, you're referencing sources all throughout your
• 50:53
  chapters, which I have to congratulate you for and thank
• 50:56
  you for. Because so much of what a lot of
• 50:58
  times what people end up doing is they'll just, I had an
• 51:01
  experience and they'll, they'll, they'll put a channel up or
• 51:03
  they'll have a podcast or they'll write a book.
• 51:06
  And it's like only their stories.
• 51:08
  Nothing's rooted in source. They have no, they don't know
• 51:11
  where to cite their sources. And it's like, well, how are
• 51:14
  you? Who are you to say any of this?
• 51:15
  Like, what do you, what do you, where's your, where's your
• 51:17
  source? Right?
• 51:17
  Cite your sources. So really, I mean, nice job.
• 51:22
  I'm not just saying it cuz you're here.
• 51:23
  I was, you know, I was excited to have you on the show after
• 51:26
  getting a chance to read the book.
• 51:29
  And I'm, I don't want to tell you that in person what I
• 51:31
  thought of that. Thanks.
• 51:34
  Was this one of your more like not being able to compare it to
• 51:38
  your other books? But it sounds like, you know the
• 51:40
  other books were were less to me anyway.
• 51:45
  Like from what you're describing it, it sounds like the other
• 51:47
  books were maybe less on the academic side of things, whereas
• 51:52
  Coming home to Heathenry. They're all.
• 51:54
  Academic. Are they all OK?
• 51:56
  Yeah, yeah, 'cause you like that.
• 51:59
  That's another, I mean, ruin yoga.
• 52:01
  It's, it's only sourced obviously from the 1900s on.
• 52:07
  So that's there's not and there's none of it's
• 52:10
  authentically historic by any means other than it's happened.
• 52:15
  And it's part of our history of, you know, the bad or good.
• 52:20
  It is part of the history of everything, you know, either in
• 52:23
  general and and a lot of good things came out of it, like
• 52:26
  German occult traditions of the like 1900s in particular is self
• 52:32
  cultivation that intentionally trying to develop ourselves and
• 52:36
  improve our lives. And you know, so that's like
• 52:39
  that's where I go with the runyoga.
• 52:40
  So that that is there's not really any academic, you know,
• 52:45
  Ness to that one, but or the correspondence book, I guess
• 52:50
  'cause that's just everybody's everything.
• 52:53
  But like the have them all. It's all sourced, you know,
• 52:56
  'cause I was writing it in college.
• 52:57
  So all those papers that I wrote were, you know, I had to source
• 53:02
  them. Yeah, yeah.
• 53:03
  So that that that will be like always part of my writing,
• 53:07
  'cause it 'cause that it's the lived experience, right.
• 53:10
  It's it's that way of really connecting to me.
• 53:13
  That's what coming home to hear the news about.
• 53:15
  Again, that title is that sense of like these things, I'm just,
• 53:20
  I, I read about them and I relate with them and I connect
• 53:23
  with them and it's part of my ancestry.
• 53:25
  And it's like I'm, I'm coming home 'cause I'm coming from a
• 53:28
  place of like, I mean, my story gets weird.
• 53:32
  I don't really care to get on it today.
• 53:34
  But family speaking wise, like I never knew my roots.
• 53:39
  That was one of my struggles in coming in the Heathenry really
• 53:42
  was connecting with my ancestors.
• 53:45
  Like what? Like it, not only did I not know
• 53:48
  them, but they abandoned me, right?
• 53:51
  Like, that's the feeling I came from.
• 53:54
  And so I struggled with, you know, 'cause I don't even know
• 53:56
  who to connect with. But in the end, it wasn't not
• 54:00
  really hard, 'cause they live with us, right?
• 54:02
  You don't have to go looking outside.
• 54:04
  For sure, yeah. No, for sure, which you know,
• 54:07
  when, when you say it, you know, or, or, or if you don't have the
• 54:11
  experience that you're talking about having gone through for
• 54:15
  anybody else that listens or watches this, you know, 'cause
• 54:18
  I'm, I know for sure. This is a question that's come
• 54:21
  up in my time as a heathen, you know, is, is how do I connect
• 54:25
  with my ancestors if I never knew them?
• 54:29
  And one of the things that's not, not just myself, but others
• 54:32
  have said is, you know, you may not know your, who your
• 54:36
  ancestors are, but they know you and they want to get, they, they
• 54:41
  want to connect with you. They know who you are.
• 54:44
  So it doesn't you know, all you got to do is just be be true, be
• 54:47
  authentic and and they're with you all the time.
• 54:50
  Like you don't have to search far.
• 54:51
  You don't have to search why you don't have to even know them by
• 54:53
  name. You can just know them as your
• 54:56
  ancestors. And then being that authentic
• 54:58
  and being that true will will will cultivate that
• 55:02
  relationship. And it's like, it's beautiful to
• 55:05
  hear, you know, from somebody that that's had such a, a
• 55:09
  challenging past in, you know, 'cause, you know, those feelings
• 55:13
  could have gone a totally different way for you, right?
• 55:16
  How many people get abandoned and end up in the system or
• 55:21
  whatever, in their, in your youth and your childhood and
• 55:24
  become hateful and bitter and resentful And they don't
• 55:29
  connect. They, they don't have that
• 55:30
  connection that, you know, that they, they, they continue to be,
• 55:34
  you know, an outcast of society, if you will, or, or separated
• 55:37
  from all that. And they'd be because of that
• 55:38
  hatred. What of what happened to them
• 55:41
  that hurt really? You know what I mean?
• 55:43
  That that. But it's, it's really
• 55:45
  interesting to hear you say like that happened.
• 55:48
  And it was, it was the thing that kind of, or maybe it was a
• 55:51
  thing that kind of put you in that direction to know where
• 55:58
  your home is. Yeah.
• 56:01
  I mean, I mean, so speaking about luck, right, that's
• 56:05
  something I absolutely believe carries through, you know,
• 56:08
  through our lineage, through our ancestors.
• 56:10
  And, you know, I can definitely attribute like, you know, spoken
• 56:17
  of when you were asking about moments in time that shifted had
• 56:21
  been a big impacts. And like there was a few where
• 56:25
  luck was involved that helped me shift in one way over another.
• 56:30
  You know, that brought me to that place because, yeah, I
• 56:32
  agree. Like, I mean, I know people and
• 56:35
  definitely grew up with people with hate, hate, anger, blame
• 56:40
  and, you know, justifiably in some cases, but shit.
• 56:43
  And you don't want that to rule your life.
• 56:45
  That sucks. Yeah.
• 56:46
  For sure. You know, I mean it.
• 56:47
  It's not an it's not to, it's not to what's the way?
• 56:53
  It's like, it's not to excuse it or dismiss it, rather, you know,
• 56:56
  like I'm not trying to be like, well, you shouldn't feel that
• 56:58
  way. No, you have absolutely every
• 57:00
  right to feel the way you feel having having gone through what
• 57:04
  you went through. And I don't think anybody would
• 57:07
  fault them for that, right? It's just that, you know, to
• 57:11
  what, to what end does staying in that state of mind, what does
• 57:18
  that bring, right? What does it do if not just, you
• 57:25
  know, continue to undermine and eat away, You know, at, at
• 57:29
  that's what's what's left of us. Right.
• 57:32
  I I no go ahead. So I've worked in the mental
• 57:41
  health field for like for longest time, 10 years of which
• 57:44
  have been in crisis and and. Oh wow.
• 57:47
  The the, so our worldview, you know, the way that we interact
• 57:55
  with the world, you know, the way that we interact with our
• 57:59
  life experiences 'cause it, we can have like really shitty
• 58:03
  experiences, but like overall, like it doesn't rule us.
• 58:08
  It actually might have changed our life in one way or another
• 58:11
  to improve it, you know, who knows?
• 58:12
  But but yeah, like the we, I genuinely believe that we
• 58:20
  dictate our experience of reality.
• 58:24
  You know, granted there's circumstances and powers and
• 58:26
  things far outside our like, you know, we don't have any control
• 58:30
  over that kind of stuff. But like, if I see the world in
• 58:34
  a negative way, my experience of the world is going to be pretty
• 58:37
  negative versus if I see the world and a positive light on I
• 58:42
  believe in magic or, you know, shit stuff happens, you know,
• 58:47
  and life is can get really good. I mean, crappy things happen.
• 58:50
  Still, you know, that doesn't change it.
• 58:53
  But our perspective of it. And I think that like that's an
• 58:56
  interesting thing. Like the Hava mall kind of
• 58:58
  teaches in a way. I don't remember.
• 59:01
  I think it's, I think it's 15 where he's just talking about
• 59:05
  like talking about kings or nobles, but just, you know,
• 59:09
  living, you know, being bold and, and brave and thoughtful,
• 59:13
  like, you know, have some wit and some common sense and happy
• 59:18
  and, and, you know, generous and kind, you know, something along
• 59:22
  those lines. And, and the, the part so till
• 59:27
  the till, till our doomsday, right till the day we die.
• 59:30
  And, and that the happiness part, that part right there is
• 59:34
  the part that I think we, you know, it's not something so I
• 59:40
  think of today. And, and this, this circle of
• 59:44
  society that I grew up in, happiness seems to be really
• 59:48
  conditioned on, on positive things, right?
• 59:52
  Like you have certain things or good things happen to me, right?
• 59:57
  So there's happiness and I like. You know, if you, if you really
• 1:00:03
  think about living in the North north region, like at the times
• 1:00:09
  that we had where like you sunk or swim by the people that you
• 1:00:14
  had support and and even then shit, you know, like happens.
• 1:00:19
  So happiness wasn't necessarily always conditioned on objects
• 1:00:24
  or, or just like everything working out to the way you want
• 1:00:27
  it. You had something like you had
• 1:00:28
  to make it happen. You had to like have some
• 1:00:31
  control over your own happiness in the way of like your
• 1:00:34
  experience of reality. So I think that's like a really
• 1:00:38
  interesting cool lesson I got from the from that stanza, you
• 1:00:41
  know, like that sense of it's not only being bold, you know,
• 1:00:46
  taking advantage of the opportunities you have or, you
• 1:00:48
  know, whatever. Being bold in life, you know,
• 1:00:50
  yeah, go for it. You know you might fail to fuck
• 1:00:53
  it. Do it again.
• 1:00:54
  I forget if it's around the same area in the hall of them all,
• 1:00:57
  but it's, it's kind of like in a similar vein as what you're
• 1:01:00
  talking about, where something along the lines of, you know,
• 1:01:03
  with a, you know, with like a, a bowl of oats and a, you know, a,
• 1:01:10
  a cup of water. I, I found many a good friend or
• 1:01:13
  something. You know, the, the simple
• 1:01:14
  things, the, the, the, the, not the extravagant, not great
• 1:01:18
  times, the simple times that you know, and as you say, you know,
• 1:01:23
  it's, it's what you make of it. It's, it's your perception of
• 1:01:26
  it. It's your perspective.
• 1:01:27
  It's, you know it, today's going to be what the day is going to
• 1:01:30
  be. And that I can choose, I have a
• 1:01:34
  choice to, to make it a good day or, you know, 'cause the day is
• 1:01:37
  going to be what it's going to be.
• 1:01:39
  The only reason it sucks or that it's not great is probably my
• 1:01:43
  perception of it. If the day didn't start off
• 1:01:45
  being a bad day by itself, I perceive it as such or, or
• 1:01:50
  whatever, you know what I mean? I, I, I I put that twist on it.
• 1:01:54
  Of course, in the in the moment, it's hard to like check that
• 1:01:58
  like, OK, I'll shift my thinking.
• 1:02:01
  Usually it's, yeah, I mean, you know, 'cause like, OK, so it's
• 1:02:03
  like you wake up and you know, you know, you go and you start
• 1:02:07
  your car and, and you know, your battery is dead.
• 1:02:10
  You know, that's gonna make you feel like this is a terrible
• 1:02:12
  day. Now you got, now you can't go
• 1:02:14
  places. Now you got to fix the battery.
• 1:02:15
  Now you got to spend the money, right?
• 1:02:17
  Like this is a terrible day. It's like, well, the day itself
• 1:02:20
  isn't. It's just the moment that's
• 1:02:22
  happening right now is kind of creating a situation that is not
• 1:02:25
  too pleasant. It's inconvenient and it you
• 1:02:28
  know it's causing you more headache than what you wanted to
• 1:02:31
  deal with. That just happened to me
• 1:02:34
  actually. But but thankfully I was like,
• 1:02:37
  let's see get it tested before we go buy a new battery and it
• 1:02:40
  was just like it was because I tried chopping it.
• 1:02:43
  I had that thing around it for a long time.
• 1:02:45
  You know, it's just trying to get it charged up, nothing.
• 1:02:49
  So I was just like, all right, but let's test it first and
• 1:02:53
  tested. They charged it fully and I was
• 1:02:55
  like, nothing didn't cost a penny.
• 1:02:57
  So but it's like, yeah, that could totally just that thing
• 1:03:01
  right there, especially if you add in being rushed or being
• 1:03:04
  tired. For me, that's like, that's the
• 1:03:08
  next level. So, so yeah, just perspective
• 1:03:12
  and and of course it's, you know, like, like I said, I
• 1:03:16
  worked in crisis for a long time and I've worked with some of the
• 1:03:19
  same people, you know, cops will call or hospital call same
• 1:03:23
  people for for many, many, many, many years.
• 1:03:26
  But then, you know, with that consistent contact, if me just,
• 1:03:31
  you know, helping them through the momentary crisis and then,
• 1:03:34
  you know, teaching coping skills and maybe some like keep moving
• 1:03:38
  with some of the like philosophical worldview kind of
• 1:03:41
  things, you know. Yeah.
• 1:03:43
  So I have seen like even in in some of the toughest places, you
• 1:03:49
  know, where if I'm getting called to crisis, that means I
• 1:03:51
  like, you know, I'm on the streets or I'm in prison or
• 1:03:54
  like, you know, these are people at the worst level of their
• 1:03:58
  life, you know, in that moment. So being able to even people
• 1:04:03
  that really stay in that place often can shift their reality
• 1:04:09
  and change and improve their lives.
• 1:04:11
  So, and that's, so that's an interesting experience that I've
• 1:04:13
  had, you know, is, is we can't always snap our fingers like,
• 1:04:18
  oh, OK, I'm thinking this way now.
• 1:04:19
  I'm a Viking, whatever, you know.
• 1:04:22
  Yeah, yeah. Then you go to get your ass
• 1:04:24
  kicked by an old lady with a broom.
• 1:04:25
  You know, like there's some work to it, right?
• 1:04:29
  There's work. And yeah.
• 1:04:33
  So the world view and just the way that we can shift, you know,
• 1:04:37
  like for instance, you know, with the bad days, if, if I-33
• 1:04:43
  bad things happen in a, you know, pretty consistent, I just
• 1:04:48
  go, Oh yeah, it's one of those days.
• 1:04:51
  And then it shifts everything, you know, like it just, it just
• 1:04:55
  shifts it because I recognize it.
• 1:04:57
  Like it's one of those days something's off kilter and I can
• 1:05:00
  make it worse by getting caught up in it.
• 1:05:03
  Or it could take a moment to step back and be like, all
• 1:05:06
  right, I just need to chop. Maybe I'll hit every red light.
• 1:05:09
  But now I'm expecting it. So it's OK, you know, And then I
• 1:05:13
  hit all the greens. Yeah, like you, you shift it
• 1:05:17
  just. Well, I've gotten, I've gotten
• 1:05:19
  this thought too over time where I don't know what you think
• 1:05:23
  since you work in this, the field that you work in that
• 1:05:30
  situations that occur, right? We, we have, we can react to the
• 1:05:35
  situation or or we can respond to the situation.
• 1:05:40
  And from what I've learned is, is, is most of the time when we
• 1:05:45
  react to something, our emotions are what's driving us.
• 1:05:50
  And if we were, but if we respond to something, our
• 1:05:54
  emotions are withdrawn and we are processing it with wisdom,
• 1:05:59
  with logic, with, you know what I mean, with, with a clear head
• 1:06:02
  or with a clear heart and a clear spirit to properly process
• 1:06:07
  what's happening and then properly go through the, through
• 1:06:09
  the motions. And granted, there are things
• 1:06:12
  that that happen that are going to instantly trigger our
• 1:06:17
  emotions. Like, like you said, you can't
• 1:06:19
  just stop thinking that way or, or, or, or experiencing those
• 1:06:24
  things. I mean, we're humans that it's,
• 1:06:26
  it's part of who we are. It's part of what makes us
• 1:06:29
  human. But I feel like part of the
• 1:06:32
  mastery of ourselves and, and, and becoming better people is to
• 1:06:39
  know when to give place to those things and not let those things
• 1:06:42
  take over their place, you know, take over a place in our lives
• 1:06:46
  and in ourselves. I don't know if that's, I don't
• 1:06:48
  know if you've got like a, a thought on that or, or anything
• 1:06:52
  that you've come to experience in your life with that, with
• 1:06:55
  like reaction and response kind of thing.
• 1:06:58
  Yeah. I mean, yeah, I agree with that.
• 1:06:59
  I mean, so if you just like put your perspective, would I just
• 1:07:03
  just asking myself this question, who would I rather be
• 1:07:08
  like totally caught up and all that emotion stuff, probably say
• 1:07:12
  something stupid that I probably wouldn't have wanted to say.
• 1:07:14
  Maybe we've gotten in a fight or would I rather be like a little
• 1:07:20
  bit, you know, like present for sure.
• 1:07:25
  That's the first thing instead of 'cause when you're caught up
• 1:07:28
  in the emotion, man, it's just a freaking you.
• 1:07:30
  Just it's like you're, you can't fight against an ocean wave.
• 1:07:32
  You're just, you gotta go with it.
• 1:07:33
  You gotta like surf that wave or fucking get crushed by it, One
• 1:07:37
  or the other. But yeah, so for me, I'd be
• 1:07:42
  like, yeah, I'd pick the option where I'm present and I'm not
• 1:07:47
  saying stuff that I wouldn't and I'm not being reactive.
• 1:07:49
  And hell, I might even like, I can't remember.
• 1:07:52
  It's Saga. I can't remember.
• 1:07:56
  I can tell you later if you want.
• 1:07:59
  There's a story. I think it's Niall, Niall Niall
• 1:08:03
  Saga. Where?
• 1:08:06
  Yeah, I where someone gets sliced in the face by a woman
• 1:08:12
  and everybody wants to react and he's like, no, only when I say
• 1:08:18
  so. And and then they work it out in
• 1:08:22
  their favor. So not only is this like it just
• 1:08:25
  benefited them from being showing restraint.
• 1:08:27
  And you know, we don't always have to get back at people with
• 1:08:30
  punching them back. We there's a lot of things you
• 1:08:33
  could do to get what is deserved and write and maybe stick it to
• 1:08:38
  the individual if there's an assholes, you know so so I think
• 1:08:45
  I lost the question. The saga reference took me off
• 1:08:47
  in a direction I think. Oh yeah, I think it was like the
• 1:08:50
  the the reaction versus response.
• 1:08:52
  Nice. So, so, yeah, I'm, I would
• 1:08:56
  always choose to be present and in control of myself in any
• 1:09:00
  given situation, doesn't matter what it is.
• 1:09:02
  But the problem is, of course is because that's what I want
• 1:09:05
  doesn't mean that's what always happens.
• 1:09:07
  So it's, it's a process. It's for me, it starts with, for
• 1:09:11
  me, it starts with self reflection.
• 1:09:13
  What do I want? Why do I want this over that?
• 1:09:16
  And then the decision, I want that now.
• 1:09:20
  And that becomes kind of a, you know, a regular affirmation of
• 1:09:25
  some sort where it's just like once in a while I'll reflect or
• 1:09:28
  especially if I do something in a situation that I'm like,
• 1:09:32
  that's not what I wanted to happen or I really feel crappy
• 1:09:35
  about this thing. Like those are good moments to
• 1:09:37
  be like, Oh yeah, This is why I want that.
• 1:09:39
  I want that because I don't want this.
• 1:09:41
  And so it reaffirms that kind of like choice.
• 1:09:44
  And then just, you know, in, in my experiences personally, just
• 1:09:48
  situation happens where I used to be reactive and now I might
• 1:09:52
  still be emotionally like punched in the gut.
• 1:09:54
  I want to kick, you know, I want to do something, but no, I'm
• 1:09:58
  present, I'm aware and and sometimes it even, you know,
• 1:10:02
  especially if it involves other people sometimes like it's on
• 1:10:06
  them, you know, like this. This is not my issue, you know.
• 1:10:10
  That's, I think that's the hardest part of times is, is,
• 1:10:13
  you know, we, we, we, we have to deal with others, whether it's
• 1:10:16
  a, a spouse or children or coworkers or friends and other
• 1:10:21
  relations that we have with people like we, we, we have to,
• 1:10:28
  we have to have those interactions.
• 1:10:30
  And you know, when, when, when that other person, when that,
• 1:10:33
  when that other party doesn't, it's like they're testing you
• 1:10:37
  all this whole time, you know, so you just keep pushing, you
• 1:10:41
  know, and, and, but is it really that, you know, is it, is it
• 1:10:46
  we're getting in our own way, you know, letting them get to
• 1:10:50
  us? And you know that that's, I
• 1:10:55
  think that's also part of the part of the process.
• 1:10:59
  Right. Well, it, yeah, it's learning
• 1:11:03
  and growing, right. And, and like for me, reflecting
• 1:11:07
  on just what is because that's what is can't change that.
• 1:11:11
  I mean, it's here, but where do I want to go from here?
• 1:11:15
  What do I want? You know?
• 1:11:17
  Yeah. And and that's like that changes
• 1:11:20
  everything because now it's like, OK, it's.
• 1:11:24
  And that's the thing that he's taught me.
• 1:11:25
  I mean, I've been cultivating myself forever and it's still
• 1:11:30
  working on myself. I got plenty of work to go.
• 1:11:31
  But, but, but he literally like one of the things that taught me
• 1:11:35
  was this like it's the ownership.
• 1:11:37
  It's the ownership of my life and my choices and my
• 1:11:40
  relationships, right? Like once I own it, then I have
• 1:11:44
  a little bit of control over it 'cause it's just like, all
• 1:11:46
  right. Yeah, you're weaving your own
• 1:11:49
  weird. That's right.
• 1:11:50
  You're weaving your own. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:11:52
  We are. We are doing that.
• 1:11:53
  And, and so, yeah, we don't have anybody else to blame or, or to
• 1:11:56
  be upset at when something goes wrong then ourselves like, well,
• 1:12:01
  it's because we didn't, you know, we weren't present.
• 1:12:05
  We just shrugged it off or we didn't want to get involved or
• 1:12:08
  whatever. And.
• 1:12:10
  Or we didn't know. You know, or we didn't know,
• 1:12:12
  Yeah. Sometimes it's just like because
• 1:12:15
  there's just so much stuff to think about in life and
• 1:12:17
  something, you know, we find certain things that are
• 1:12:19
  important to us and that's what's important, even though
• 1:12:22
  there's lots of important stuff out.
• 1:12:24
  There. It's hard to use that.
• 1:12:25
  It's hard to use that excuse the older we get though, I feel.
• 1:12:27
  Yes, absolutely we. Know a lot more than we did, so
• 1:12:31
  that that whole ignorance excuse doesn't fly so much anymore now
• 1:12:35
  that we've got this many experiences.
• 1:12:37
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, getting out of
• 1:12:41
  our little surf girl, see in the world, right?
• 1:12:45
  One of my again. I really should make an effort
• 1:12:48
  to memorize source material. I just like, I just take a lot
• 1:12:53
  of notes and then I share my notes.
• 1:12:56
  That's like my method and and I don't always sit back to reflect
• 1:12:59
  and like, all right, what saga? But but anyhow, there's this one
• 1:13:03
  scene in a saga and I can give you a reference after where the
• 1:13:10
  the father's kind of like berating the son and he's like,
• 1:13:13
  nowadays people are just, you know, they're good at sitting at
• 1:13:17
  home drinking and doing nothing, you know.
• 1:13:19
  But really it's the people that go out in the world.
• 1:13:24
  And then the Hava Ma talks about that, you know, we're all safe
• 1:13:26
  at home. Yeah, we're all kings of the
• 1:13:29
  castle. But as soon as we go out, we
• 1:13:31
  find be the stupidest fool, you know.
• 1:13:33
  So it's like that getting out part, which of course, you know,
• 1:13:36
  throughout Odin talks about get out, get out.
• 1:13:40
  You know, that's part of seeking wisdom.
• 1:13:41
  Yeah. But yeah, so.
• 1:13:44
  You know, to cut. I had I had a guy on my show a
• 1:13:47
  couple of a couple of episodes ago where we were talking about
• 1:13:53
  have you ever heard the term finfaring?
• 1:13:55
  Yeah. No, no, yeah, definitely.
• 1:13:57
  I don't know if I responded to that post or not or.
• 1:14:00
  But yeah, that was. I mean faring faring I know, but
• 1:14:03
  the idea of fin faring like going to Finland for is that
• 1:14:06
  what it was about if I remember correct?
• 1:14:08
  Yeah, yeah, that's where that's where the term originated from.
• 1:14:11
  Finfodder, the Old Norse. Yeah, Finfodder.
• 1:14:13
  But yeah, going to the Sami. But the but the idea of is, you
• 1:14:18
  know, you you're not going to learn everything that you need
• 1:14:20
  to learn if you just stay in your own neighborhood and you
• 1:14:22
  stay in your own community. You got to go abroad.
• 1:14:26
  So like it was encouraged to to like not just stick, don't just
• 1:14:30
  stay in your Hut. Don't just stay in your little
• 1:14:32
  circle. This your whole life.
• 1:14:34
  Go out a bit. Right.
• 1:14:36
  Explore, you know. And so again, bring it back to
• 1:14:40
  the Holla Mall cuz I told you, I want to talk about the Holla
• 1:14:42
  Mall. Love it.
• 1:14:44
  The, you know, first five standards.
• 1:14:46
  That's like, it's the instructions of like how we go
• 1:14:50
  out and and yeah, it's really comes down to that because we
• 1:14:54
  have basic needs, right? So we, we need some warmth, we
• 1:14:56
  need dry clothing. You need, you know, to be able
• 1:14:59
  to refresh ourselves, food and drink conversation, you know, so
• 1:15:02
  those are like the keys, right? And then how do I fit in, right?
• 1:15:06
  That's that's where it goes. And so, you know, there's these
• 1:15:09
  50 teachings in the nomic part of the Hava Mall that, yeah,
• 1:15:17
  kind of like just common sense things.
• 1:15:19
  You know, it's, it's almost, it's funny, you know, and, and
• 1:15:22
  I've had this conversation with people where I'll share like one
• 1:15:25
  of the stanzas and it's like, but at the same time, it's just
• 1:15:28
  like, yeah, of course, right. Like, it's not like this
• 1:15:32
  esoteric, at least not the first part.
• 1:15:36
  Excuse me? Yeah, but just like building
• 1:15:39
  relationships really just kind of.
• 1:15:42
  Practical things, yeah. But it, but it's the reflection
• 1:15:48
  on it because like, and I used to travel the rainbow circuit
• 1:15:52
  when I was rainbow family, like it's a when I was on the
• 1:15:59
  streets, when I was laying on the streets.
• 1:16:00
  So I'd go to these gatherings in the forest and kind of celebrate
• 1:16:03
  in a, you know, drug induced, mystical kind of way while
• 1:16:08
  having fun, you know, anyhow, but there's a term olders and
• 1:16:12
  elders, right? So like there's a bunch of
• 1:16:15
  people that are old, but they got nothing to share.
• 1:16:17
  Like they're not elders, They're not people that live their lives
• 1:16:19
  reflecting their life and have something of value to like give
• 1:16:22
  back, right. And so, and often times it's
• 1:16:25
  like, you know, in the Hava mall, it says don't diss on the
• 1:16:27
  old bat, you know, the the saggy skinned old people's wisdom, you
• 1:16:32
  know, pay attention. They have they have something to
• 1:16:34
  share. And so like a lot of, you know,
• 1:16:37
  at least the first part of the Hava Mall, it's just these like,
• 1:16:40
  you know, pay attention to your environment, you know, don't
• 1:16:43
  come out speaking and talking, you know, pay attention.
• 1:16:47
  Listen, look, see, you know, you don't even know if you're always
• 1:16:52
  with people that might not be out for your best interests, you
• 1:16:55
  know, or might actually have something out to get at you, you
• 1:16:58
  know, So this is common sense. Like when when, you know, I
• 1:17:03
  share a verse or something, this is like, yeah, of course, but
• 1:17:05
  it's like, yeah, of course, but I don't see you doing this stuff
• 1:17:08
  in your life. You're not applying it, right.
• 1:17:11
  So, and that's the that's like the part of for, for me, like
• 1:17:15
  that embodying the wisdom is to apply it like to, to not only
• 1:17:20
  see it that, yeah, it makes sense.
• 1:17:22
  And then for me, it's like reflect on, Oh yeah, there's a
• 1:17:24
  few times where I probably could have been a little smarter.
• 1:17:27
  And then from here on out, I'm going to go into a situation
• 1:17:32
  stepping back a little bit, looking around.
• 1:17:35
  Yeah. So it's interesting that we're
• 1:17:37
  at that point 'cause that was going to be like, one of my
• 1:17:39
  things to ask you was, you know, as modern practitioners, you
• 1:17:43
  know, we're talking about words from a source that is at least,
• 1:17:49
  you know, 1200 years old that we know of, right?
• 1:17:53
  The, the, if not older and it's like 1, you know, people might
• 1:17:58
  make the argument this is dated. You know what I mean?
• 1:18:00
  It, it, it doesn't have any cultural context nowadays
• 1:18:05
  because we don't live in those times anymore.
• 1:18:07
  And I'm, I'm hearing and I'm like, it sounds like you, you've
• 1:18:10
  had a pretty good, you'd have a counter to that.
• 1:18:14
  Oh yeah, yeah. I would just be like, yeah, I
• 1:18:17
  would cut them off right there. I was sorry for trying to
• 1:18:20
  interrupt, but but I would, I would just be like you're you're
• 1:18:23
  saying wisdom on building relationships is outdated.
• 1:18:27
  Like, that would be my response right there.
• 1:18:29
  Like what? Yeah.
• 1:18:32
  I mean, we're so dysfunctional these days.
• 1:18:35
  It is, it is wild. It is wild how dysfunctional
• 1:18:38
  reality seems these days. And and like common courtesy and
• 1:18:45
  sense and stuff is just out the window, you know, and it's.
• 1:18:49
  Yeah. I didn't mean to cut you off,
• 1:18:52
  but I was, I was thinking I'm like, I'm, I would, I would
• 1:18:54
  venture to say that maybe the reason why people think that
• 1:18:58
  there's less relevance now to things back then.
• 1:19:04
  Maybe part of the reason why is that we, because we've, we've
• 1:19:08
  become so far removed from these simpler times, from these good,
• 1:19:11
  wholesome, authentic and genuine ways of existing with people
• 1:19:16
  that if we took away the modern bullshit, the stuff that we
• 1:19:20
  don't need, right? All this nonsensical stuff and
• 1:19:25
  focused on this, like this is this would be good.
• 1:19:27
  Like we this, this, these would be, we would have a better
• 1:19:30
  quality of life. You know, if, if, if we kind of
• 1:19:36
  applied these things or embody more of these things from this
• 1:19:39
  quote, UN quote ancient text or, or, you know, outdated quote, UN
• 1:19:44
  quote, you know, piece of, of literature.
• 1:19:48
  You know, if we didn't have all this, you know, social media
• 1:19:50
  nonsense. And how many, you know,
• 1:19:52
  followers am I going to get and who's responding to my messages
• 1:19:55
  and look at this video and what's the latest TikTok trend
• 1:19:59
  or whatever. You know, like if it wasn't for
• 1:20:01
  all this modern nonsense, maybe the maybe the stuff that has
• 1:20:05
  been working well for so long would make sense to more people.
• 1:20:09
  Right. Or maybe it would hit their
• 1:20:11
  nerve, you know, it would. It would touch their heart of it
• 1:20:14
  instead of all this other stuff that's not doing anything for
• 1:20:16
  him, right? It's all surface superficial,
• 1:20:20
  you know. Yeah, I'm, it's, it's.
• 1:20:27
  I could say a lot on this topic. Actually, I I kind of like for
• 1:20:32
  me, reality is just it's all possibilities and we just live
• 1:20:36
  in a reality right now that lots of different possibilities can
• 1:20:38
  coexist, which is kind of really interesting.
• 1:20:42
  But like, so coming from the Eastern kind of perspective of
• 1:20:46
  the path, maybe is that so for instance, with the Internet,
• 1:20:56
  right? It, it at this point, it, it's
• 1:20:58
  at least in the Western society, it's not repressed as much as
• 1:21:05
  like it is might be in like China or some other places.
• 1:21:07
  So like we do got access to like everything, right?
• 1:21:10
  And there's just, there's just room for everything.
• 1:21:14
  And so like for us that are seeking, you know, we're walking
• 1:21:18
  the heathen path and stuff. And, and even within the heathen
• 1:21:21
  path, I mean, I've met a few people that just are, you know,
• 1:21:24
  it's, it's surface religion, you know, and there's not that sense
• 1:21:31
  of connecting 'cause I think a religion is a way of like
• 1:21:34
  connecting with something greater than ourselves.
• 1:21:37
  Yeah. And connecting, depending on the
• 1:21:39
  religion, like connecting with our environment, definitely, you
• 1:21:44
  know, connecting with ourselves. Like there's connection is a
• 1:21:47
  word that I would use for religion, you know, just because
• 1:21:52
  it, it like, and there's rituals and a sense of like prayer and
• 1:21:56
  meditation and a sense of, you know, so there is a lots of
• 1:22:00
  depths in that. So I, I guess like from the
• 1:22:05
  standpoint of like Internet, I'm just like, all right, fucking
• 1:22:07
  it's all out there. It's just, it sucks because
• 1:22:11
  there's just so much that unless you know the right search terms
• 1:22:15
  and stuff, you can really get lost down a rabbit hole that
• 1:22:18
  takes you not necessarily where you wanted to go, but that's
• 1:22:21
  where you are and now you've adopted it as your reality and
• 1:22:23
  yourself. So so that's I think the sucky
• 1:22:27
  thing. And then there's just like the
• 1:22:29
  hate in the just nastiness. Like fucking hey dude.
• 1:22:32
  Yeah. Like you're so miserable that
• 1:22:36
  you wanted to spoon feed it to everybody and just just, yeah.
• 1:22:41
  Well, yeah, you can't be miserable, miserable on your
• 1:22:43
  own. You have to spread it.
• 1:22:44
  You say you have to spread that misery out so that everybody's
• 1:22:47
  miserable. Like, why can't you be selfish
• 1:22:48
  about that? Be miserable in your own life,
• 1:22:51
  in your own corner somewhere. Don't stop.
• 1:22:53
  Stop spreading that around to people that, you know, I don't
• 1:22:57
  want that, right? I've, I, you know, as a, as a
• 1:23:00
  person that's, you know, been doing content, You know, I, I
• 1:23:04
  talked about this recently too, where I'm like, I, I don't, I, I
• 1:23:07
  don't call myself a content creator anymore.
• 1:23:09
  I'm just a heathen who creates content.
• 1:23:12
  But I don't want to consider my, I don't want to put myself in
• 1:23:14
  that category because I'm not, I'm not out here worried about
• 1:23:19
  comments and, and, and algorithms and, and this and
• 1:23:24
  that anymore. I've, I've, I tried that, you
• 1:23:26
  know what I mean? I, I went down that path and I,
• 1:23:28
  and I got burned badly as a result.
• 1:23:33
  I, I learned real quick like this is not what you're supposed
• 1:23:35
  to be doing. Like I, and I fought it.
• 1:23:39
  I fought that, that lesson to, to and to try and say, well,
• 1:23:43
  maybe I'm not doing something right.
• 1:23:46
  Whereas the lesson was like, no, you're doing what you're doing
• 1:23:49
  is right. And that does not mean all this
• 1:23:53
  other shit. You know what you're doing is
• 1:23:56
  right and and everything else has nothing to do with what
• 1:23:59
  you're doing, so stop it. Right, Yeah, it's, it's
• 1:24:03
  interesting. So my, I think my first content
• 1:24:08
  was my rune yoga videos. I don't know, but it was just
• 1:24:12
  like, it really had nothing to do with other people in a way.
• 1:24:17
  It was just like it's it was my way of helping me solidify, you
• 1:24:23
  know, my path And and to like share.
• 1:24:28
  That's I consider myself a share.
• 1:24:29
  I'm just sharing it. You do what the fuck you want.
• 1:24:31
  You want. Yeah.
• 1:24:32
  I'm not judging you. I even like.
• 1:24:34
  But over the years, the thing I must appreciate is I've
• 1:24:40
  connected with a few beautiful people that I wouldn't have
• 1:24:43
  connected with otherwise. And that is precious.
• 1:24:47
  It's like, you know, when Odin was when he was out in the snow
• 1:24:51
  and wind and he like all alone in frozen and cold and he came
• 1:24:55
  across another person's like it changed everything, right?
• 1:25:00
  And that's, that's to me. And, and another thing that's
• 1:25:03
  interesting. So because of my, you know, went
• 1:25:06
  through the foster care and then through the juvenile system.
• 1:25:09
  So I like, I could be in a place for one month or maybe six
• 1:25:14
  months maybe. I don't think I ever.
• 1:25:16
  Did ever know? Yeah.
• 1:25:18
  So I made fan friends fast and furious and deep, like shared my
• 1:25:22
  life story. It's fucked up.
• 1:25:24
  This is who I am and I am a pleaser.
• 1:25:27
  So you'll like me every year around, you know?
• 1:25:30
  And so one thing, I don't think I talk about it too much.
• 1:25:37
  I don't think I talk about it in my book Coming Home.
• 1:25:39
  But another one of my struggles was that my experience with
• 1:25:45
  heathens is we're like kind of a distrusting lot of individuals.
• 1:25:49
  Like, I don't know you, you know, you don't just get to come
• 1:25:52
  in here, like close wall and it's slow relationship building,
• 1:25:59
  which is interesting, but it's amazing and it's, it's real, you
• 1:26:04
  know, like, you know, 'cause there's a sense of like building
• 1:26:07
  worth, like building a sense of like value.
• 1:26:11
  I'm not just 'cause, you know, we're in AI mean another thing.
• 1:26:14
  We're so populated, right that we're just constantly coming
• 1:26:19
  against users and abusers and leeches and vampires, you know,
• 1:26:23
  like they're everywhere. And, and, and so like, it's kind
• 1:26:28
  of cool to, it's a vetting process in a way, I guess you
• 1:26:31
  can say. And if I don't like you or if I
• 1:26:34
  don't, you know, like you're just a little bit strange, You
• 1:26:36
  know, it's like, and, and like originally I kind of 'cause I'm
• 1:26:42
  like, I'm, I'm a nice person. I'd like to think, right, Like
• 1:26:45
  I'm, I'm kind of cool, you know, let's hang out, You know, that's
• 1:26:48
  the way my whole life has been. When they come in, they either
• 1:26:51
  it's just like a wall and and sometimes people don't like me
• 1:26:56
  and you know, that's their right.
• 1:26:59
  Hard to take a person, right? Oh, I took it personal, you
• 1:27:02
  know, not not anger wise, but hurt wise.
• 1:27:04
  Like it's. Just yeah, like what's wrong
• 1:27:06
  with me? Why?
• 1:27:06
  Why aren't you with me? I'm such a nice guy.
• 1:27:08
  Yeah. So, yeah, I've gotten that too,
• 1:27:15
  but in a different sort of way. Like I've, I've, I've
• 1:27:18
  experienced that callousness, I think is the one way to put it.
• 1:27:24
  You know, in the, in the heathen community there, especially in,
• 1:27:26
  in certain like branches of Heathenry, 'cause, you know,
• 1:27:32
  there, there's so many different ways that a person could
• 1:27:36
  approach Heathenry. It's it, there's nothing
• 1:27:38
  universal about it. You know, which region of
• 1:27:43
  Northern Europe are you going to lean into for your Heathenry?
• 1:27:47
  Is it, you know, more Northern European, Scandinavian,
• 1:27:50
  Icelandic? Is it more continental,
• 1:27:52
  dramatic, Anglo-Saxon, Frisian? You know what I mean?
• 1:27:55
  Or whatever, Yeah. Exactly like from what era?
• 1:27:59
  And then you know, and you know, so in, in different types of,
• 1:28:04
  you know, in, in modern constructs like in, in, in those
• 1:28:07
  different subsets of heathen, you've got different types too.
• 1:28:10
  And so definitely certain, certain of those groups have
• 1:28:16
  been known to attract specific personalities, some of whom are
• 1:28:21
  not very welcoming. Right.
• 1:28:24
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:28:24
  It's not because they're mean. It's just that they don't,
• 1:28:26
  they're not, again, like you say, not not trusting for the
• 1:28:30
  reasons like you say, you know, like, I don't know you.
• 1:28:31
  You don't know me. Why should I?
• 1:28:36
  Why should I entrust you with anything?
• 1:28:38
  Prove it that you're worth my time, and I'll prove to you that
• 1:28:41
  you're worth mine. And there.
• 1:28:42
  You know what I mean? Like, so I get it, at least from
• 1:28:45
  that perspective. But it does make it hard for, I
• 1:28:48
  think, especially for a newcomer that's eager and that has that
• 1:28:52
  sort of genuine kind spirit about them.
• 1:28:55
  Maybe like yourself, who's like, I just want to be nice, man.
• 1:28:57
  I just want to hang out. I just want to get, you know, be
• 1:28:59
  friends in the air. All they're over here.
• 1:29:01
  We're like, fuck your friendship, whatever, right?
• 1:29:05
  Right, right. Yeah.
• 1:29:10
  Sorry for being nice. Damn right.
• 1:29:13
  Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 1:29:15
  Like that's it. I honestly, I'm thankful that I
• 1:29:18
  came through it in the way I did because I didn't really come in
• 1:29:20
  to reconstructionist and like, you know, some of the like or
• 1:29:23
  different, like you said, different particular branches
• 1:29:28
  that I just, I came out through the ruins.
• 1:29:31
  And because I've been in heathen or not Heathen, but a Pagan for
• 1:29:34
  like 30 plus years, you know, in one way or another.
• 1:29:38
  And and I've been like for 20, almost 22 years.
• 1:29:42
  We've been celebrating the wheel a year.
• 1:29:44
  So it's not like when I came into Heathen that was going to
• 1:29:47
  replace that. What?
• 1:29:48
  That makes no sense. Yeah, right.
• 1:29:50
  So then it was more of just an integration because it's like I
• 1:29:54
  my genetics, I mean, yeah, I come from multiple places and
• 1:30:01
  and so they're like just be like, well, this is it, right?
• 1:30:04
  Is that's a harsh place. I so I never came across that
• 1:30:08
  until like years into I've been calling myself Ethan because I
• 1:30:12
  am 1, you know, and, and so then when I did came in it come into
• 1:30:18
  it, it was just like, well, I could just take it, you know,
• 1:30:20
  because they have wisdom to share too.
• 1:30:22
  It's not like I'm not going to close myself off just because
• 1:30:25
  they're bigoted or whatever racist.
• 1:30:26
  I mean, some stuff I'll just like, I'm not getting delve into
• 1:30:29
  that. But like, you know, like I'm
• 1:30:33
  people, people have their life experiences and their
• 1:30:37
  perceptions and sometimes those things come together to have
• 1:30:40
  something really wise to share that might improve my life in
• 1:30:43
  some way or just, you know, make me appreciate life more,
• 1:30:46
  whatever it is. So yeah, I'm like, I'm glad
• 1:30:50
  honestly that I didn't have to struggle with that in the
• 1:30:53
  beginning because that is a huge block.
• 1:30:55
  I think especially, I don't know if it is like this now, but like
• 1:30:59
  earlier on, like you would have people like you said something
• 1:31:03
  off or something, they'd get no problem stomping down on you.
• 1:31:06
  And and that's like, and then you see these people disappear,
• 1:31:08
  these newcomers, they'd disappear from these different.
• 1:31:10
  Forms they get, they get run off.
• 1:31:12
  Yeah, and it's like they might have actually been a a
• 1:31:16
  beautiful, like they might have had something to add to the
• 1:31:19
  community heating community, you know, but because they got
• 1:31:22
  pushed off and so, yeah, that's. Unfortunate because of
• 1:31:26
  somebody's ego or something stupid like that to that that
• 1:31:29
  prevents something like that from happening, yeah.
• 1:31:31
  Right. Or, or just their worldview.
• 1:31:33
  Like there's people that like, you know, this is the right way,
• 1:31:37
  which is a weird thing. And either because it's like
• 1:31:40
  what? Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a
• 1:31:45
  whole thing. Like what is the right way?
• 1:31:47
  It's, you know, what's right for the tribe, really what's right
• 1:31:49
  for that group. That's what, what's, what works
• 1:31:51
  for them and, and what's part of their, their customs, right,
• 1:31:55
  their traditions. And that's so much of what
• 1:31:57
  Heathenry is, is like, yeah, there's, there's, there's nuance
• 1:32:00
  and there's shared things. But so much of those shared
• 1:32:03
  things came from a a source, you know what I mean?
• 1:32:08
  It came from somewhere. But yeah, I was thinking also
• 1:32:13
  too, with like regards to what you're as much as you're into,
• 1:32:16
  like with the Hava Mall and, and so much of its practical
• 1:32:20
  knowledge and wisdom and, and things that could be applicable
• 1:32:23
  into modern times. Have you come across anything
• 1:32:26
  that you would think could be considered like a
• 1:32:29
  misunderstanding or a misconception about things in
• 1:32:33
  the Hava Mall or a stanza or, or section of the Hava Mall that
• 1:32:37
  you'd like to maybe address? Like maybe the way people
• 1:32:41
  nowadays might either misapply or oversimplify or misconstrue
• 1:32:49
  something from the Hava? Molly, has it?
• 1:32:52
  Has that ever, has that been something that that has ever
• 1:32:54
  crossed your, your, your path? Nothing's coming to mind.
• 1:33:03
  I mean, I it's not like I have regular conversations with the
• 1:33:06
  Hava Molly people. 'Cause like one of the first
• 1:33:09
  things that comes to my mind on that is I'm, I'm sure you've had
• 1:33:14
  to have seen in your travels and in your experience, just, you
• 1:33:19
  know, you had to have seen, you know, in the infamous 127th
• 1:33:24
  stanza of the Hava Mall, you know, where is, if you know it,
• 1:33:30
  it's, it's paraphrasing it, but you know, if you see evil being
• 1:33:35
  done, count that evil as yours and give your enemies no
• 1:33:40
  quarter, give your enemies no peace, right?
• 1:33:41
  And it's so many different ways of how it's being construed to
• 1:33:45
  the point that that stanza is, has been, I want to say I'm, you
• 1:33:51
  know, maybe this is, maybe this is pushing it a little bit, but
• 1:33:54
  it's almost been appropriated by certain organizations as like
• 1:34:01
  their code of ethics. So you know, or their, their,
• 1:34:04
  their, their, you know, the declaration 127 is a big one
• 1:34:08
  where like, if you are any sort of like heathen online with a
• 1:34:13
  presence, with a platform, with a voice, and you didn't sign
• 1:34:16
  declaration 127, then you're like automatically slotted into
• 1:34:19
  the bad guy category because you didn't sign the declaration
• 1:34:23
  because you don't stand for that.
• 1:34:25
  And I'm like, do you even know what the context in which this
• 1:34:28
  stanza applies and what it's even talking about or you just
• 1:34:31
  saying what because that that's like where I'm coming up with
• 1:34:34
  like where people like take these stanzas or these or some
• 1:34:37
  of these things and, and, and position them for their own
• 1:34:42
  agendas, right? You know what I mean?
• 1:34:44
  But, you know, it's interesting because like pretty much any
• 1:34:47
  religion that I've crossed past when it does that, like there's
• 1:34:50
  people that are always going to take scripture or, or or like,
• 1:34:55
  you know, you know, traditional wisdom and, and use it for their
• 1:35:01
  purposes. So, and it's like, you know, I'm
• 1:35:07
  I'm not here to tell them they can't do it, but it's too fuck
• 1:35:10
  away from me, you know, like, but yeah, I don't know.
• 1:35:16
  I think the unfortunate thing is it just like sometimes,
• 1:35:21
  especially in in our society, like it just happened not too
• 1:35:26
  long ago in Washington, like one of the places I lived for a
• 1:35:29
  little bit where basically I can't even think of the acronym
• 1:35:38
  now, but one of the like groups that, you know, have a racist
• 1:35:45
  flair to it came into town and it like it got that's heathery.
• 1:35:51
  Like it got news. Yeah.
• 1:35:53
  And it and it like it like it created like what?
• 1:35:57
  And even a even a friend of mine, like who she doesn't know
• 1:36:01
  I'm heathen, but you know, she's a she's a really good friend.
• 1:36:03
  I love her. And she like went on.
• 1:36:10
  She was one of the people I interviewed because she's like
• 1:36:12
  way anti against racism, which is like awesome.
• 1:36:15
  But like, yeah, it it like she said this heathen group, right?
• 1:36:22
  Yeah, I talked to her after that one.
• 1:36:25
  But anyhow, she don't represent now.
• 1:36:28
  They don't represent us. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:30
  Not yeah. But that's like that's that's
• 1:36:33
  what we get right Like that, that fool that fucking was in
• 1:36:36
  the capital, right like. Yeah, the Q Anon Shaman or
• 1:36:42
  whatever the hell. The horns in his head.
• 1:36:43
  Like what? Yeah, yeah, with a bit of like a
• 1:36:45
  measure of. Like, yeah, yeah, All right.
• 1:36:47
  You like, but it's just like, and so I actually have a plan to
• 1:36:52
  write a fantasy series that like does the very opposite, you
• 1:36:57
  know, as I learn more of Heathenry and connect with more
• 1:36:59
  people because I've been isolated in my my Heathenry,
• 1:37:02
  just me and my family for the most part, and one or two just
• 1:37:05
  people that I've connected with and then lots of people online.
• 1:37:09
  So like, as I grow, you know, 'cause it's a growth thing for
• 1:37:12
  me and I connect with more people, you know, out in the
• 1:37:15
  world. I want to represent that in my,
• 1:37:19
  my story, the fantasy series that we're going to and, and
• 1:37:23
  give honor to that. And even, you know, I'll give
• 1:37:25
  place to the racist side too. But then in the end, I'm going
• 1:37:28
  to have to like, you know, get rid of that element 'cause it's
• 1:37:32
  like, you know, you know, like I, I think, I think I, I don't
• 1:37:36
  know where I wrote it, maybe in that book, but just how, you
• 1:37:40
  know, the Ku Klux Klan, that's a Christian group.
• 1:37:42
  I mean, there's lots of nasty Christian groups and jihadists
• 1:37:45
  in, in the Muslim, you know, the Islamic faith.
• 1:37:48
  And, and it's just like they don't identify with that either.
• 1:37:52
  Most people don't identify. And it doesn't stop the name
• 1:37:54
  from shining, you know, because it represents our actions.
• 1:37:57
  You know, if the more people that have a positive presence
• 1:38:00
  and get that recognition, you know, that'll change, that'll
• 1:38:04
  change the view, you know, 'cause it's also, you know,
• 1:38:08
  there's the other element, which is not a bad element in a sense.
• 1:38:11
  It's just a shallow 1 is the bro the bro security, you know, the
• 1:38:14
  Viking kind of mentality that that brings you into the world
• 1:38:17
  view. And you know, you slow some
• 1:38:19
  people like go from that to like deep level of of embodying the
• 1:38:23
  heathen like ways and you know. Yeah, for sure.
• 1:38:27
  I know some people just like that, you know, like that's
• 1:38:29
  that's what attracted them into Heathenry as a faith or a
• 1:38:33
  religion or whatever. But it was that initial
• 1:38:36
  aesthetic, you know what I mean? Like the yeah, the look of it
• 1:38:40
  all or the style and and that was the seed that kind of got
• 1:38:44
  planted it for them. Yeah, To well, if I was 20, if I
• 1:38:48
  was 20 and like came into like the Viking show and then just
• 1:38:51
  like everything all blew up, like I would be one of those
• 1:38:54
  people, you know, I would definitely be enjoying myself,
• 1:38:57
  you know. So it's like, yeah, it's, it's,
• 1:39:00
  it's beautiful in its own way, you know, and it's part of our
• 1:39:02
  tradition, you know, it's part of the heathen faith and, and
• 1:39:05
  our story for sure. So.
• 1:39:08
  Yeah, it's it, it, it is. And like you said before with
• 1:39:11
  like the whole, you know, like the, the, the racist sides of
• 1:39:14
  things, it's, it's not, it's an ugly part of existence.
• 1:39:18
  It's it, but it's something that does exist.
• 1:39:20
  And so we have to, we have to recognize it for what it is.
• 1:39:25
  To to censor it, to hide it doesn't do any good.
• 1:39:30
  Yeah, you know, 'cause you can't make it go away.
• 1:39:34
  It's it's there. But but how do we deal with it?
• 1:39:38
  How do we confront it? And how do we, you know,
• 1:39:41
  displace those things? Like, OK, just because you see
• 1:39:45
  this group of assholes wearing Thor's hammer or Tiwa's runes or
• 1:39:51
  so or whatever, you know what I mean?
• 1:39:52
  Like that does not. Or the even Ologies for him.
• 1:39:55
  I've seen that misappropriated too.
• 1:39:57
  You know the Ologies rune gets gets thrown around and then in
• 1:40:00
  those circles like it was candy. So Willow.
• 1:40:03
  So Willow, yeah, I mean, that's another big one, the soul rune.
• 1:40:06
  But yeah, like so like just because you see those symbols,
• 1:40:09
  you know, educating and and saying that, no, that's not, you
• 1:40:13
  know, this is I saw this on a Facebook post the other day,
• 1:40:16
  like somebody was posting a really good post, you know,
• 1:40:18
  about, I don't know, the runes and Odin or something.
• 1:40:22
  Like it was, it was, it was a great post, but the post, the
• 1:40:27
  post's credibility or its legitimacy, like the, the, the
• 1:40:30
  thing that that took away all of that great information was the
• 1:40:34
  fact that they were using a winged Othala rune on the
• 1:40:38
  imagery. And I'm like, whether it's
• 1:40:40
  through ignorance or design, like if you meant to do that,
• 1:40:44
  fuck you. But if it's out of ignorance,
• 1:40:47
  hey, you shouldn't do that. Like educate and correct.
• 1:40:51
  You have the actual attested, you know, where this rune
• 1:40:55
  appears in archaeological sources, how it was used in
• 1:40:58
  medieval times, whatever, it's there.
• 1:41:01
  And the winged part is contemporary.
• 1:41:04
  It's it's not see, it's, you know, don't don't associate that
• 1:41:09
  with Heathen Ring. So I haven't found myself doing
• 1:41:13
  that with people, but if I did, I don't think I would confront
• 1:41:18
  them at all. I would just be like, well,
• 1:41:19
  that's a cool symbol, here's some history and give them
• 1:41:22
  source material like where it originated from and where it's
• 1:41:24
  grown out into. And then like if they choose it
• 1:41:27
  after that point, OK, that says something about you.
• 1:41:30
  Right. Like, yeah, because you had the
• 1:41:32
  choice now to recognize, oh, wow, this is I'm being, I'm
• 1:41:36
  being educated here, right? I could do better, but I'm not.
• 1:41:41
  Yeah. And then that's that's, that's
• 1:41:43
  the choice. There it is.
• 1:41:44
  Now you've defined yourself, right?
• 1:41:47
  You've, you know, this is what you represent.
• 1:41:50
  Yeah. Yeah, 'cause.
• 1:41:51
  It goes into, back to the whole thing that we were talking about
• 1:41:53
  before, like, you know, deeds and, and worth and, and, and
• 1:42:00
  just living in a way that's that's honorable, representing
• 1:42:05
  our culture, representing the lifestyle, representing the
• 1:42:08
  faith, the religion. You know, this is something that
• 1:42:11
  people believed in at a time and and that's, that's what their
• 1:42:15
  world was framed around, you know, and to give that honor and
• 1:42:21
  to and to respect that that history and not bastardizing it
• 1:42:25
  and not misappropriating it. Yeah, I mean that.
• 1:42:31
  Well, that's so. And this is an example of me
• 1:42:37
  just still learning. So again, because you know, this
• 1:42:42
  process of connecting with my roots and my ancestors is this
• 1:42:45
  is ongoing thing. It's an ongoing process and
• 1:42:48
  having that perspective of how disrespectful that would be
• 1:42:53
  never dawned on me like, you know, like this.
• 1:42:55
  So it's like if I put it into like perspective, like my great
• 1:43:01
  grandfather died and loved his stories.
• 1:43:04
  And, you know, when I met him when I was really young, he
• 1:43:07
  seemed really strong. You know, I have my own personal
• 1:43:09
  experiences with this ancestor and and then all the stories and
• 1:43:14
  stuff growing up. And so like what a great.
• 1:43:17
  And then there's some other, you know, someone come around and
• 1:43:20
  like taint that in some way or do like misappropriate, like
• 1:43:25
  something that would, I would be.
• 1:43:29
  So yeah, that would that would be a tough one.
• 1:43:32
  So I I like, I don't even, I've never even thought about how
• 1:43:36
  that how that misappropriation could be so insulting.
• 1:43:40
  But I guess if I put it to the perspective of with natives,
• 1:43:43
  that's, you know, that's easy to see how fucked up that is.
• 1:43:47
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it goes back to feeding
• 1:43:50
  our, our ancestral roots, right? And 'cause we, we, I'm real big
• 1:43:54
  on that. It's, you know, not to stay so
• 1:43:57
  root bound and not to be so stuck in the past that you can't
• 1:44:00
  grow forward. And, you know, 'cause what do
• 1:44:02
  trees do? They, they have to have a strong
• 1:44:04
  root system in order for them to grow upward and outward.
• 1:44:07
  It's not just how strong your roots are, it's how, how
• 1:44:11
  nurtured they are. So that way they can support
• 1:44:14
  big, strong branches and boughs and, and, and being able to
• 1:44:17
  reach upward and outward to, to grow into this great thing.
• 1:44:23
  And, and that's, you know, what I feel a lot of people are
• 1:44:25
  searching for is that, that connectedness, where, where,
• 1:44:29
  where am I from? Where are my roots?
• 1:44:31
  Where can I nurture that we know what roots do I need to nurture
• 1:44:34
  and how do I nurture them? And, and, and, and when, when
• 1:44:38
  you don't have that direction, or when someone doesn't have
• 1:44:40
  that sense of direction, they can quite often times find
• 1:44:47
  things that appeal to that or scratch that itch from other
• 1:44:51
  cultures, you know, And then it becomes an, whether through
• 1:44:56
  ignorance or, or whatever, it becomes this like you, you,
• 1:44:59
  they're, they're stealing it, you know, and then placing it in
• 1:45:02
  their thing. It's like, no, you have your
• 1:45:04
  own, you know, you have your own culture or wherever it might be
• 1:45:07
  from, like you have your own thing that you can connect with
• 1:45:11
  and share that with others. There's, there's plenty of of it
• 1:45:17
  to go around, you know, and there's plenty of things that
• 1:45:19
  that are shared even even in, in native culture, you know what I
• 1:45:24
  mean? In, in Native North American
• 1:45:26
  indigenous, there's, there's plenty of things that are shared
• 1:45:29
  with indigenous and non indigenous people.
• 1:45:31
  And then there's also very clear things that are not shared
• 1:45:35
  because that is their heritage, that is their culture.
• 1:45:38
  And, but, but so with other things, you know, it is if, if,
• 1:45:44
  if it's fine for them, then it's fine for everyone.
• 1:45:46
  You know, I mean, it's, it's the way I see it.
• 1:45:48
  If if they have their culture and they are preserving it and
• 1:45:51
  they're teaching that in in their in their way to to
• 1:45:56
  preserve that culture, then it's a with, then it then it should
• 1:46:00
  be that for for other cultures too.
• 1:46:03
  You know, it's actually so it's interesting to you.
• 1:46:05
  That's a it. It brings to mind I was reading,
• 1:46:11
  I don't remember. I was reading one of the
• 1:46:14
  material from, you know, someone that's considered racist.
• 1:46:20
  And that was one argument that was like, yeah.
• 1:46:22
  Like, so their argument was like, you know, you, you have
• 1:46:26
  like a a group of black Africans that are, you know, they have
• 1:46:32
  their thing and they have their celebrations.
• 1:46:34
  And no one says that that's racist, right.
• 1:46:36
  So why is it that us white people, this is their argument,
• 1:46:40
  can't do our own thing. And I'm like, well, yeah, OK,
• 1:46:44
  whatever. Yeah, obviously.
• 1:46:45
  Like, that's why not like. Of course.
• 1:46:49
  But it's like this subtle like, you know, because it's like
• 1:46:51
  there's logic to that. Of course we we should preserve
• 1:46:55
  our ancestry or our culture way like like that is the worst
• 1:47:00
  thing you could do is strip someone of their culture like to
• 1:47:03
  yeah, it's horrible. So.
• 1:47:05
  Like that, That's fine, yeah. The problem with what they're
• 1:47:09
  doing is they're making it about race, right?
• 1:47:11
  Right, right. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:47:12
  They're making it about race, saying why can't whites do it
• 1:47:15
  with the blacks can and whatever the brown, it's like, hold on,
• 1:47:19
  you're missing the you're missing the mark here, buddy,
• 1:47:21
  like. Right, right.
• 1:47:22
  Tell me what, what? What is even the white?
• 1:47:24
  What is even the white race? Right, right, right.
• 1:47:26
  Yeah, OK. Like there's there's white
• 1:47:28
  Mexican people, there's there's, you know, there's white African
• 1:47:31
  people for that matter, like, you know what I mean?
• 1:47:33
  So like, what are you even talking about?
• 1:47:35
  You know our white culture? No such thing.
• 1:47:38
  Sorry, well, and so am I might because I'm just working on this
• 1:47:41
  series, like I'm just hashing it out the fantasy series I want to
• 1:47:44
  do. But like two of the main
• 1:47:47
  characters are straight up like a mix between a Norwegian and
• 1:47:51
  and a Korean and a mix between an African and a Swedish person,
• 1:47:55
  like 100% both sides, right. And so like I, I'm like, because
• 1:48:00
  at what percent? Like the people that go even
• 1:48:02
  further than race to genetics, you know, that was that's like
• 1:48:05
  interesting. Like at what percent are you?
• 1:48:08
  Can you be a heathen, right? Like if you have 10% northern
• 1:48:12
  Germanic ancestry, 1% like, right, like like, or if you have
• 1:48:17
  any like other color in your system or you just disqualify
• 1:48:22
  like how? Like this is so ridiculous.
• 1:48:24
  It's so ridiculous. That just sounds like, yeah,
• 1:48:26
  yeah, that just sounds like, you know, that's Nazism with with
• 1:48:29
  extra steps. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:48:34
  Say you're a Nazi without telling me you're a Nazi, you
• 1:48:36
  know, right. But the worth, I mean, you know
• 1:48:41
  what I mean? Like the deeds and, and, and,
• 1:48:43
  and worth like that, that is, that is something that is just
• 1:48:45
  what a person is, right? And, and how you live your life
• 1:48:48
  and, and, and doing all those things is, is, is what makes it.
• 1:48:52
  It's not, you know, I've been getting into this like
• 1:48:54
  especially now this time of year with the holiday season being
• 1:48:59
  upon us every year around this time of year, everything comes
• 1:49:04
  out of the woodwork with when should you'll be right?
• 1:49:06
  When is the historical reckoning of you'll and, and you know,
• 1:49:10
  and, and all this and the solstice and just the dramatic
• 1:49:13
  didn't have a solstice celebration and this and that
• 1:49:16
  and it, you know, look, I'm not here to argue the this, the
• 1:49:19
  historical facts. They are what they are.
• 1:49:21
  You can agree with them or not. That doesn't change anything
• 1:49:24
  that it is what it is, right? You can agree or not you can
• 1:49:27
  whatever facts are facts are you know, the the historical things
• 1:49:31
  are what they are. But what I keep what I what I've
• 1:49:34
  recently come to try to take a focus on is that well, but why
• 1:49:39
  was that the way it was? Why did they do it this way
• 1:49:42
  instead of us just being hung up on calendar dates or the
• 1:49:46
  calendrical reasons why or or places why, like understand why
• 1:49:51
  was you'll midwinter? Why does why do the sources
• 1:49:57
  confirm that that it was a midwinter bloat?
• 1:50:00
  Well, it's because when you make it, halfway through the winter,
• 1:50:05
  you really started to feel what winter's about.
• 1:50:07
  People have died, you've ran out of food, it's cold.
• 1:50:11
  You still got the other half of the winter to make it, and you
• 1:50:14
  might not yet. Other other people in your
• 1:50:16
  family might not make it. It's about survival.
• 1:50:18
  So the bloat, the sacrifice that took place in midwinter was a
• 1:50:24
  real sacrifice because you're already on lean times.
• 1:50:27
  So then to give something to sacrifice even more, that's a
• 1:50:31
  risk, but it was done to say thank you for getting us to this
• 1:50:36
  point and give us the strength to get further, to get to get us
• 1:50:39
  past this to the other side. It wasn't to celebrate the, the
• 1:50:43
  light coming back on the salt just so whatever.
• 1:50:46
  Like they didn't, they didn't matter that what mattered was
• 1:50:48
  I'm alive, grandma's dead and my boy might not make it cuz he's
• 1:50:52
  got a fever. We have to sacrifice to the
• 1:50:56
  gods. We have to give to the gods, you
• 1:50:58
  know, So anyway, like it was the whole like, why did they do it
• 1:51:01
  when they did it and understanding the spirit of it
• 1:51:04
  rather than it was on this full moon.
• 1:51:07
  And and you know, yes, those are things are important, but but
• 1:51:10
  the deeds, why was it done when it was done?
• 1:51:13
  And and, and getting down to that, I think is is where we
• 1:51:16
  should probably change, you know, shift our focus a bit more
• 1:51:19
  on. Right.
• 1:51:20
  Yeah, yeah. Well, what's that?
• 1:51:23
  Yeah, that I 'cause I differentiate between like, like
• 1:51:26
  the sense of sacrifice versus like an offering in that
• 1:51:30
  perspective because like sacrifice has got a pinch a
• 1:51:33
  little bit, right. Like, so when both of my
• 1:51:37
  youngest were born, you know, we did a home birth for both of
• 1:51:42
  them and we buried their placenta on on some like really
• 1:51:45
  sacred land in North Carolina and some friends property and
• 1:51:49
  like, and I don't know, we were poor ass broke like food stamps
• 1:51:55
  apparently making it like. And I offered both times
• 1:52:00
  something that man, it was hard to give away.
• 1:52:04
  Like, and I thought about it later too.
• 1:52:07
  It wasn't like I just released it and I was like, wow, that was
• 1:52:10
  a sacrifice. Yeah, because it's like, so I I
• 1:52:16
  mean, granted I come from along working with yoga and some of
• 1:52:21
  the Eastern like working with chi and prana, like that idea of
• 1:52:24
  energy and that like it translates somewhat kinda over
• 1:52:29
  into Megan like kinda not exactly, but but it but it I
• 1:52:34
  think it connects in a way where we are giving energy apart.
• 1:52:38
  Like we are literally giving a part of essence of our self.
• 1:52:41
  And that is, you know, with the gift exchange, like, like it's a
• 1:52:45
  big thing. I'm asking for a big thing.
• 1:52:47
  I'm offering a big thing. And I'm wanting my girls to live
• 1:52:50
  long and healthy lives, you know, and happy and like
• 1:52:54
  protected. So yeah, it was something that I
• 1:52:57
  gave and it gave a massive part of something of me away.
• 1:53:03
  And in return, like, yeah, I, I find in my own experiences that
• 1:53:09
  it returns in equally important ways.
• 1:53:12
  Like maybe differently, but still substitutes and and then
• 1:53:17
  of course always followed with gratitude.
• 1:53:19
  Like always, always, always, always, Yeah.
• 1:53:23
  Which is a form of reflection and and a sense of good feeling
• 1:53:26
  on top of just to and then honoring, you know, the spirits
• 1:53:30
  or whoever ancestors or gods you know.
• 1:53:34
  Yeah, just all of it, right, Because, you know, that's a, I'm
• 1:53:36
  glad you said that. Gratitude that I I before I lose
• 1:53:40
  my thought because I am. I'm a little stoned now, but but
• 1:53:44
  the the relationship too, like I coming from a long time working
• 1:53:54
  with Christianity and paganism in general, like there's just a
• 1:53:58
  sense of just like we're always reaching out to the gods, right?
• 1:54:02
  And it's like that's powerful to have that regular relationship.
• 1:54:05
  You know, for me that comes more with land spirits and you know,
• 1:54:09
  I'm getting more and more with my ancestors, like daily
• 1:54:11
  thinking about them. But so like when it just
• 1:54:16
  happens, like all the time, it's like really you're not really
• 1:54:22
  giving much versus like, all right, this is when I'm
• 1:54:25
  connecting, you know, or if I'm having a really hard time that
• 1:54:29
  there's that too. But like in general, it's just
• 1:54:31
  like, you know, once or twice I might connect, you know, well,
• 1:54:34
  Odin often, but like you know, with Freya or something, or you
• 1:54:40
  know, one of the other gods. It's it's not all the time, you
• 1:54:44
  know, and when it is, it's a big deal, right?
• 1:54:47
  For me, it's like I'm setting aside some time.
• 1:54:49
  It might be a couple days, you know, like it's a big deal.
• 1:54:53
  And, and often times when ioffer sacrifice, it's something you
• 1:54:58
  know, it's a value, you know. Sure, you know, and, and the
• 1:55:04
  Hall of the Mall talks about that too.
• 1:55:05
  You know better to offer none or little than to offer too much,
• 1:55:10
  right? Yeah.
• 1:55:13
  That's that's a whole section or a whole thing in in the hall of
• 1:55:16
  the mall too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:55:20
  Because and, and, and yeah, like just thinking about how, how
• 1:55:24
  approaching the divine, you know, and, and accessing the
• 1:55:27
  divine, you know, when you, when you consider if we, if we, if we
• 1:55:31
  hold the gods in a certain or at a certain level, in a certain
• 1:55:36
  group or tier level of, of, of excellence or greatness, you
• 1:55:41
  know, they are greater than the spirits of the land around us.
• 1:55:44
  Even though the spirits in the land of, you know, they, they
• 1:55:46
  are important and they have a very great presence and they,
• 1:55:51
  they have a role, you know, the gods are approached differently,
• 1:55:55
  at least to me. You know, we approach them
• 1:55:57
  differently, then we approach the spirits of the land and
• 1:55:59
  maybe even at home and, and all that.
• 1:56:01
  It's a different type of relationship.
• 1:56:03
  You know, it's a different type of exchange and understanding.
• 1:56:08
  Like, you know, at certain times of the year, then going back to
• 1:56:11
  the whole like timing of things when you'll was like, OK, you
• 1:56:15
  know, we've made it halfway through the winter.
• 1:56:17
  You still could struggle. It's, it's, you know, you're not
• 1:56:20
  out of the woods yet. You know, I don't think that the
• 1:56:24
  people believe that the gods were closer to them in the
• 1:56:26
  middle of winter in proximity. I feel like they knew like this
• 1:56:32
  is the moment in time where we're going to be able to get
• 1:56:36
  the most out of our relationship with them because we're in such
• 1:56:39
  dire straits, because we're in such need that we, we, we call
• 1:56:42
  to them and and we gift to them in hopes of getting a great gift
• 1:56:45
  in return, you know, so the situation when, you know, I
• 1:56:52
  think the heathens at the time were very pragmatic.
• 1:56:56
  Yeah. Honestly, you know, it was.
• 1:56:59
  And that's modern, modern living in modern times, conveniences
• 1:57:04
  all that have have separated us from from that life and from
• 1:57:10
  thinking that way. We don't need to think that way
• 1:57:11
  anymore. Right.
• 1:57:13
  We don't struggle in the middle of winter anymore, at least most
• 1:57:17
  of us don't, you know what I mean?
• 1:57:18
  Like it's, it's, it's a totally different world now.
• 1:57:20
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The going on.
• 1:57:27
  Yeah. I just, sometimes I like, I have
• 1:57:29
  tangent thoughts. When you were talking about
• 1:57:32
  practicalness and I was thinking I was reading some academic book
• 1:57:38
  on ruins, I could probably trace the source, but they were
• 1:57:41
  talking about how rune stones even back like 500, you know,
• 1:57:45
  would like call on Jesus and Thor, you know, like you're
• 1:57:49
  like, hey, if you're gonna help me out here, I'll call on you,
• 1:57:52
  dude. Like, there's that.
• 1:57:55
  I mean, purists might not like that, but it's there.
• 1:57:58
  Medieval, the medieval Scandinavians especially, yeah,
• 1:58:00
  they when when Christianity hit, they didn't seem to care.
• 1:58:04
  They were like, that's just one more that we get to add to our
• 1:58:07
  arsenal, you know? Right, yeah, a lot of those, a
• 1:58:13
  lot of the charms, you know, 'cause what was it the like the
• 1:58:19
  9 herbs charm, the Anglo-Saxon 9 herbs charm has, you know, is,
• 1:58:23
  is very Christian, you know, it's talking, it's calling upon,
• 1:58:29
  you know, the Lord to bless the herbs and this and that.
• 1:58:32
  Like there's obvious Christian overtones to that charm and like
• 1:58:39
  you're saying, there's there's plenty of of inscriptions and
• 1:58:42
  things that that do not exclude the Christian God or Jesus or
• 1:58:46
  anything like that throughout. So.
• 1:58:49
  Right. Yeah, now again.
• 1:58:53
  What's that? Sorry.
• 1:58:55
  I'll say, you know, again, that that could be, you know, that
• 1:58:57
  might piss people off because that was after they became
• 1:59:00
  Christian. And, you know, had they stayed
• 1:59:01
  either none of this would have happened and blah, blah, blah.
• 1:59:03
  OK, well, yeah, but same time it still happened.
• 1:59:06
  Right, yeah, I mean, it's it's it's in there or log like it's a
• 1:59:10
  done deal here it is. And and on top of that, like
• 1:59:15
  it's it's interesting because only in the last couple years
• 1:59:19
  have I really been focusing on heathen worldview.
• 1:59:21
  Like it that wasn't always my focus for sure, but it's
• 1:59:26
  interesting. Like even like, so Christianity
• 1:59:29
  that grew up in the northern northern culture and the
• 1:59:31
  Germanic culture, like it changed Christianity.
• 1:59:34
  Like there was more of a focus on like on, on bones, like
• 1:59:38
  holding on to like relics and stuff like that, which were
• 1:59:40
  definitely like, you know, so it's like Even so like that's
• 1:59:48
  one of the things I hear with the people with sagas, like,
• 1:59:50
  yeah, they were written later on, but one, they were written
• 1:59:54
  down during a time where a lot of people knew the stories.
• 1:59:58
  So it could only go so far in shifting things, right?
• 2:00:02
  So there's that side of it. And then on on top of it's, it's
• 2:00:07
  like, but it's still our ancestors and, and things are
• 2:00:11
  different, right? But it, I don't discount all my
• 2:00:15
  ancestors that were Christian from that.
• 2:00:17
  That'd be weird to like, well, I only want a Viking ancestor to
• 2:00:21
  call upon. Like what?
• 2:00:24
  And of course they're going to have wisdom to share.
• 2:00:26
  Like it's what? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:00:29
  And that, you know, I've talked to people about that too.
• 2:00:31
  And I go, you know, think about most people nowadays, especially
• 2:00:38
  most people in the United States and you know, have been born
• 2:00:44
  here. Their parents were born here,
• 2:00:47
  their grandparents were born here, and maybe even their great
• 2:00:50
  grandparents were born here. You know, yes, I know that
• 2:00:53
  there's plenty of people who have, you know, grandparents or
• 2:00:56
  even great grandparents who were born in Europe or other
• 2:00:58
  countries and that immigrated here.
• 2:01:00
  And I understand that. But when it comes to like
• 2:01:06
  religion or, or faith, like you realize how far back you have to
• 2:01:11
  go down your, your, your ancestral lines to even get to a
• 2:01:15
  point where they were not Christian.
• 2:01:20
  And that far back you're at, they probably don't even know
• 2:01:23
  you at that point like that. That's they, they're so far
• 2:01:26
  removed from the ancestral line. Like it's, it's you're, you're
• 2:01:29
  like way off in the distance somewhere and they're not even
• 2:01:31
  thinking about that far ahead. You know, so you have immediate
• 2:01:36
  ancestors who have been a part of your family's weird and, and,
• 2:01:39
  and all of that in very recent times that whether it's
• 2:01:44
  Christianity or Islam or whatever it is, I mean, that's
• 2:01:50
  real history that that's, that's real close connections.
• 2:01:55
  It's not to take away from anything else.
• 2:01:57
  It's to include them because they are your ancestors and they
• 2:02:01
  are as important, if not more so, because they are so close to
• 2:02:05
  you in your immediate line that they, they, they, they see you.
• 2:02:09
  They're, they're, they're right in front of you or right beside
• 2:02:12
  you, right next to you, right with you.
• 2:02:13
  And that can be tough, you know, especially as you get into this
• 2:02:19
  type of belief and you, you know, you think like, all of you
• 2:02:24
  know, they're enemies, you know, like Christians and heathens,
• 2:02:26
  Christians and pagans, Like, there's this animosity between
• 2:02:29
  them. It's, it's visceral too.
• 2:02:31
  Like, it's like, like there's this sense.
• 2:02:34
  I mean, I, yeah, it's, yeah. That's another thing I'm
• 2:02:38
  thankful for because I mean, I did have some weird wacky, like
• 2:02:42
  Christian upbringing, but like, at one point I was in juvenile
• 2:02:46
  hall for like 6 months and the only book available was the
• 2:02:50
  Bible. Yeah.
• 2:02:52
  And so I read the New Testament, not the New Testament, the four
• 2:02:55
  gospels, and you know, like Jesus is a pretty freaking cool
• 2:02:58
  dude. Like I can, I agree with a lot
• 2:03:01
  of stuff he has to say. I don't see it that often in
• 2:03:03
  Christianity. Yeah, right.
• 2:03:06
  Like there's some, there's some good stuff there.
• 2:03:08
  I mean, I don't agree with at all.
• 2:03:09
  I ain't going to turn the other cheek or, you know, like forgive
• 2:03:12
  someone 7 * 7, whatever. Like that's just ridiculous.
• 2:03:15
  But you know, you know, just connecting and being kind and
• 2:03:20
  you know, like having some compassion, you know, and
• 2:03:25
  confronting people, you know, like, you know, he wasn't just a
• 2:03:27
  Sissy. He's turning over tables and
• 2:03:29
  shit you. Know.
• 2:03:30
  Yeah, yeah. Right, so and you know that any,
• 2:03:33
  you know, according to their mythos, he got sacrificed,
• 2:03:36
  right? Like that's a a legit thing,
• 2:03:39
  which is an interesting because just recently I've come across a
• 2:03:42
  couple articles that compare Jesus and Odin and how like it
• 2:03:46
  possibly could have been an influence.
• 2:03:48
  But it's just like this. You know, there's enough story
• 2:03:50
  about the hang God and some, you know, relics and you know,
• 2:03:54
  there's stuff that you could see it grow out of, but maybe it
• 2:03:58
  could have been, you know, why not?
• 2:04:00
  You know, we like you know, we could it clarify the story.
• 2:04:04
  Maybe it didn't have so much clarity, but so it's it's
• 2:04:07
  interesting to just come across that recently I was just like
• 2:04:11
  digging in a little bit on the on the.
• 2:04:13
  Yeah. And once you really get into,
• 2:04:15
  you know, theological studies and, and religious myth and
• 2:04:21
  everything, you're going to, you're going to find so many
• 2:04:23
  similarities between things. It's like there's, there's,
• 2:04:28
  there's one source here that that everything is coming from
• 2:04:30
  because how many, how many virgin births exist in, in
• 2:04:36
  various mythologies? There's a few, there's several
• 2:04:39
  Egyptian mythology has it. I know Vedic mythology contains,
• 2:04:43
  you know, the, the story of a virgin birth, like it wasn't
• 2:04:46
  just Jesus, you know what I mean?
• 2:04:48
  Like that was that was a, that was a not an uncommon thing to
• 2:04:52
  have to, to have in, in any sort of myth.
• 2:04:55
  So once you get into all that and really get in the weeds with
• 2:04:59
  it, it can you can go, you know, so you really aren't that the
• 2:05:03
  only one, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:05:06
  Well, and I like. So of course during my cult era,
• 2:05:12
  I really got into astrology and and so like I kind of look at it
• 2:05:17
  like with that, the one and only sun, I'm like, well, we only got
• 2:05:21
  1 sun in our solar system, you know, like, you know, like that
• 2:05:24
  was the way I looked at. I was like, yeah, I agree with
• 2:05:26
  that. You know, without that sun, we'd
• 2:05:28
  be screwed. We.
• 2:05:29
  Wouldn't that's on the other side, Yeah, so of.
• 2:05:31
  Course, but it's just like, but if you like, you know, because
• 2:05:35
  that's what the occult is. It's really like trying to like
• 2:05:38
  partly like get into more of a deeper layer of religion or, you
• 2:05:43
  know, whatever it is. It's like more of the secret
• 2:05:45
  that esoteric teachings that so, you know, you studied like when
• 2:05:51
  I studied through the lens of like the Kabbalah and and
• 2:05:54
  Christianity, it's just like, well, I could see how that fits
• 2:05:57
  in with this grander perspective.
• 2:06:00
  Not just like this desert religion, you know, but
• 2:06:03
  something like there's, there's some depth to it, you know, when
• 2:06:06
  you really dig into it. But unfortunately, and I think
• 2:06:10
  this happens with every religion is there's always people that
• 2:06:13
  are just, they, they're like use it in ways that are like just
• 2:06:19
  corruptible and just nasty and not uplifting and, you know.
• 2:06:23
  Yeah. And that's unfortunate because.
• 2:06:27
  Yeah, well most organized religions, if not all nowadays
• 2:06:30
  are are only in place to control anyway.
• 2:06:34
  Right. Which is the cool thing about
• 2:06:37
  heathen, right? Like fuck you.
• 2:06:39
  That's I mean, that's really what it ought to be is, you
• 2:06:42
  know, it's it's not, it's not, it's not that I have seen it.
• 2:06:45
  I have seen it where, you know, again, you get these, these
• 2:06:47
  these organizations that get formed and these groups that
• 2:06:50
  that come up and it's, you know, like you, you're becoming the
• 2:06:53
  very thing that you claim to abhor.
• 2:06:58
  Like what are you doing? Why, what are you doing with
• 2:07:00
  this? And it's AI guess it's a trap
• 2:07:02
  with any, you know, anything that gives somebody a sense of
• 2:07:07
  power, you know, 'cause this is empowering this, you know, and
• 2:07:11
  you know, to, to, to learn stuff about your ancestors or to
• 2:07:14
  learn, you know, world views that really click with you.
• 2:07:18
  You know, like I get, I can get down with that, right?
• 2:07:20
  That could be empowering. And the next thing you know in
• 2:07:22
  the you know, with, with, with, with an unhealed mind and you
• 2:07:26
  know, with a, with a hurt heart, with a hurt spirit, somebody can
• 2:07:30
  take that those feelings and and it becomes something nasty.
• 2:07:35
  Yeah, that's that's a sad thing. I mean, I've seen it.
• 2:07:38
  I see it quite a few times, you know, just even families, Yeah.
• 2:07:43
  Families just taking advantage of their elders or like some of
• 2:07:46
  the trauma and abuse. I mean, yeah, I've cried in my
• 2:07:50
  car. Some of the stories I've heard,
• 2:07:52
  like I've had a fucked up life, but I was lucky, you know?
• 2:07:58
  Like, yeah, it's, it's. It's all about right.
• 2:08:01
  It's what? That's about that perspective.
• 2:08:04
  Yeah. You know, you had a rough life
• 2:08:06
  and then you're over here feeling, you know, the sympathy
• 2:08:09
  and the and the compassion for others that you like.
• 2:08:13
  Wow. I guess it really wasn't that
• 2:08:14
  bad. You know, whereas other people
• 2:08:16
  might hear your story and go, I thought I had a bad life, look
• 2:08:19
  at this guy, you know, and like, it's all about perspective.
• 2:08:24
  Yeah, and we're talking. Familiar.
• 2:08:27
  Yeah. And how that like, so that
• 2:08:29
  that's the thing like worldview shifting, that's definitely some
• 2:08:33
  a conversation that I, I think is definitely something that
• 2:08:37
  should be had is, is just the heathen worldview.
• 2:08:40
  But how shifting our worldview shifts everything like our
• 2:08:44
  relationships, our our experiences, our, you know,
• 2:08:49
  understandings, especially like when it comes to the afterlife,
• 2:08:52
  which you know, that's, that's an interesting thing too, you
• 2:08:56
  know, and how that how it changes our relationship with
• 2:08:58
  life itself and. Yeah, I mean, 'cause we're not
• 2:09:02
  just, we're not just experiencing, you know, that
• 2:09:05
  world views, changing it. It's not an overnight thing.
• 2:09:10
  You know, it, it takes years of applying it and understanding
• 2:09:15
  it, coming to a place of understanding, learning,
• 2:09:19
  studying, you know, 'cause you know, being indoctrinated or
• 2:09:24
  being brought up in a certain world view for so long.
• 2:09:27
  And then next thing you know, you're, you're looking at things
• 2:09:30
  from a different lens. It challenges not just you, but
• 2:09:34
  the people around you, right? Why are you thinking this way
• 2:09:36
  now? You weren't always like that.
• 2:09:38
  I'm. Like, you know, that can yeah,
• 2:09:41
  that can really. And then sometimes those, you
• 2:09:43
  know, those, those changes, you know, if, if they mean something
• 2:09:47
  to us and not to the other person or people, yeah, that
• 2:09:54
  that can, that can put a strain on relationships.
• 2:09:57
  It can. It can sever ties, you know,
• 2:10:01
  forever sometimes. Right, Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's
• 2:10:05
  so I so like, for instance, when the in laws would visit or
• 2:10:14
  something like we, we tone down things and, you know, we'll move
• 2:10:19
  our celebrations over a little bit or start them early or just
• 2:10:23
  because it's just like, why, why would I, I love them, you know?
• 2:10:26
  Well, my father-in-law passed last year.
• 2:10:29
  But but like, you know, just just, yeah, like good people,
• 2:10:34
  they're just hardcore Christians and they're just praying for our
• 2:10:37
  souls, you know, like that kind of level.
• 2:10:39
  Yeah. And it's just like, why, why
• 2:10:42
  would I want to like fray that relationship just because I'm,
• 2:10:46
  you know, I talked to a Thor, you know, I look for guidance,
• 2:10:50
  you know, whatever it is, you know, it's or populan spirits,
• 2:10:53
  you know, like make the offerings that I have
• 2:10:55
  everywhere, you know, So it's just like I was more incog on
• 2:10:59
  certain things and, you know, move a couple of things into the
• 2:11:02
  room, you know, just to like keep the relationship and 'cause
• 2:11:06
  I I don't need to prove him anything, you know, like there's
• 2:11:08
  no like I'm not obligated to do shit.
• 2:11:10
  Like really, That's that's the thing.
• 2:11:13
  I another thing I like about he didn't mean it's like, let's do
• 2:11:17
  it, you know? It's, you're not going to piss
• 2:11:18
  off Odin if you take, if you, if you remove a statue of him in
• 2:11:21
  your living room because you're, you know, 'cause mom's coming
• 2:11:25
  over. Right.
• 2:11:26
  Yeah, No, you know. What I mean like, he's not going
• 2:11:27
  to be pissed and he doesn't care, you know?
• 2:11:30
  Yeah, although I. Mean, on the other hand, you
• 2:11:33
  know, right, that they they might, they might take offense
• 2:11:35
  or or not or whatever. You know, you're doing something
• 2:11:38
  that's just to be a jerk for what?
• 2:11:41
  Like pick your battles, you know, and, and be smart about
• 2:11:44
  it. Be, be, be wise about it.
• 2:11:46
  Be, be. I've gone through that whole
• 2:11:51
  thing with my, with my family when they were still alive.
• 2:11:53
  You know, it was I didn't tell them I was heathen to tell them
• 2:11:58
  that I, I, I answered a question because they asked me.
• 2:12:02
  Right. And you're just being too slow.
• 2:12:04
  Yeah, and I didn't want to lie. Yeah.
• 2:12:06
  And because of that truth, right, that that hurt them.
• 2:12:09
  And I'm like, right now, I'm stuck with this feeling of, you
• 2:12:13
  know, I've, I've hurt my mother and my father by saying this
• 2:12:16
  truth that means something to me that they don't agree with.
• 2:12:21
  And I battled with that for the longest time was, you know,
• 2:12:24
  should I be more concerned about appeasing them and making them
• 2:12:28
  happy or should I be living my truth?
• 2:12:31
  And it's, you know, it was hard because again, that whole
• 2:12:33
  worldview shifted in my the way that I was raised and grown up.
• 2:12:38
  Absolutely. You know, I mean, like you, you,
• 2:12:41
  you do for others and you, you know, it's not about pleasing
• 2:12:44
  others, but it's about, you know, honoring your mother and
• 2:12:47
  your father and all this. And I'm like, should I not, you
• 2:12:49
  know, should I not do this because it makes them upset?
• 2:12:52
  I'm a disappointment, blah, blah, blah.
• 2:12:54
  Nope. That my worldview change and
• 2:12:56
  it's, you know, this is your past.
• 2:12:58
  Stay true to it. And and yeah, yeah, they don't
• 2:13:02
  agree. They don't like it.
• 2:13:03
  Then that's that's just kind of part of the pro process.
• 2:13:06
  It. Happens.
• 2:13:08
  Yeah. It's on them.
• 2:13:08
  You can't change. You can't.
• 2:13:10
  That has nothing to do with you. You're not doing this to be a
• 2:13:12
  jerk to them. You're not doing this to be, you
• 2:13:15
  know, an enemy of theirs. You're you're doing this to be
• 2:13:17
  true to yourself. And if they don't agree with
• 2:13:19
  that? Yeah, you know what?
• 2:13:22
  And it's, it's so the unfortunate thing with that
• 2:13:25
  right is when we have such rigid worldviews that there's just,
• 2:13:32
  there's no, there's no area of connection.
• 2:13:39
  And so because I'm sure your deeds have been positive and who
• 2:13:43
  you are as a person. So like your beliefs are one
• 2:13:46
  thing, but you know, I think Christianity actually has like a
• 2:13:49
  good saying where it's like the tree is known or the fruit is
• 2:13:51
  known by its tree. Like that's a great teaching
• 2:13:54
  because it's true. It's our deeds or it's our
• 2:13:56
  actions that define who we are. Not like what I like music or
• 2:14:01
  what I believe. Because if I teach you with
• 2:14:03
  respect, I'd rather have someone that has like wackenoodle Angel
• 2:14:07
  like not angels, alien, alien angels, whatever that scoop them
• 2:14:13
  up and everybody else is damned. But they treat me with respect
• 2:14:18
  and kindness and are giving and kind.
• 2:14:20
  I'd rather have that than someone that believes everything
• 2:14:23
  that I believe in is an asshole like.
• 2:14:25
  Yeah, what, Yeah, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've had almost the
• 2:14:29
  exact conversation with my, with my mom at one point in time,
• 2:14:32
  'cause like, you know, she knew I'm heathen and disagreed with
• 2:14:39
  it and, and had everything, you know, opposing to say about it
• 2:14:42
  and all the reasons why based on what the Bible said and this and
• 2:14:46
  that. And then, you know, I'm up there
• 2:14:48
  one year back in New York to help get they had this, this
• 2:14:52
  barn full of things that they had collected for their whole
• 2:14:57
  lives, both my mom and dad. And it was a storage unit, you
• 2:15:00
  know, it was a storage barn that they were renting.
• 2:15:02
  And it was, again, it was just stuff that they'd had for the,
• 2:15:05
  you know, the past 50 plus years.
• 2:15:07
  And they just needed to get rid of it.
• 2:15:09
  And it was so much for them to do.
• 2:15:11
  My dad was in declining health. My mom, you know, was getting up
• 2:15:14
  there and she couldn't do it all.
• 2:15:15
  I'm like, I'll come and I'll do it.
• 2:15:16
  I'll spend a week up there and I'll help.
• 2:15:19
  And I did. And and I like I, I, I mentioned
• 2:15:23
  that. I said, listen, you know, I'm
• 2:15:24
  not trying to get recognition for this.
• 2:15:27
  I said, but your doctrine says that faith without works is dead
• 2:15:31
  and that a tree is known by its fruits and, you know, are my
• 2:15:36
  fruits? Are my deeds good?
• 2:15:40
  And she said, yeah. I said, so then what's the
• 2:15:43
  problem, mom? Like, why are we, why why do you
• 2:15:46
  have to be stuck on the fact that I believe in a different
• 2:15:49
  faith than you? I don't claim you know the same
• 2:15:53
  God as as as as as you as you do.
• 2:15:57
  She couldn't get past it, couldn't, could not, could not
• 2:16:00
  resolve with her at that time. You know, she couldn't get past
• 2:16:05
  the fact that I didn't believe. Therefore I'm like, but my
• 2:16:09
  deeds, my works, the very thing that you, your doctrine teaches
• 2:16:14
  that faith without works is dead and that a tree is known by its
• 2:16:16
  fruits and all these things. That's what matters, right?
• 2:16:21
  Not what I think, not what I say I believe.
• 2:16:23
  And I mean my actions, my deeds. Yeah.
• 2:16:27
  And I would I add, I always add what we represent too, like.
• 2:16:31
  Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah for. Sure, that's a.
• 2:16:33
  That's an action of sorts, you could say.
• 2:16:35
  Yeah, yeah, which is neat because like, again, I've, I've
• 2:16:40
  grown a lot in the last 10 years, you know.
• 2:16:42
  So when I first, you know, came into this, and even during, I
• 2:16:46
  admit, you know, I was, I was not the greatest person towards
• 2:16:49
  my parents. They were, there were times that
• 2:16:50
  they, they made me angry and I externalized that towards them.
• 2:16:55
  You know, I was, I was a real asshole at times.
• 2:17:00
  Not to be, not, not in the malicious sense, but I would,
• 2:17:03
  you know, my behavior, my, my, my, the spirit about me was not
• 2:17:06
  wholesome. It was not good.
• 2:17:07
  And I didn't, I didn't reflect, you know, positivity, you know
• 2:17:13
  what I mean? I, I, I took things very
• 2:17:15
  personally. I was, I was a very bitter
• 2:17:16
  person at, you know, at, at points in my life.
• 2:17:21
  But when I honestly, when I, you know, when I spent enough time
• 2:17:24
  in the shadows and I did enough mushrooms and I, you know, got
• 2:17:29
  enough lessons from spirit over the years to help me heal.
• 2:17:36
  I, I went back recently. I went back just this year
• 2:17:39
  because both my parents are dead, but I went to go visit my
• 2:17:42
  sister because I hadn't seen her since both my parents had died
• 2:17:46
  or since my mom had died. I hadn't seen her.
• 2:17:48
  So went up to visit, saw my aunt, my niece, and and they
• 2:17:54
  were all like, you've changed so much since the last time we saw
• 2:17:59
  you, which was two years prior when my dad died.
• 2:18:05
  They're like, you're a different person now for the better, you
• 2:18:10
  know, like you've improved. And I haven't changed in terms
• 2:18:14
  of my belief that I didn't convert back to Christianity,
• 2:18:19
  but how I interact and, and, and how I, my, my worldview has, has
• 2:18:26
  improved, I think. And, and also my, my
• 2:18:29
  relationship between myself and others around me and how I
• 2:18:35
  choose to, to live and be present has improved.
• 2:18:40
  I don't harbor bitterness. I don't take things so
• 2:18:43
  personally. I don't let what others do
• 2:18:47
  change my piece about things. I, I, I do my best to just take
• 2:18:54
  what I've got and, and learn what I can from it.
• 2:18:58
  And it is what it is. And but yeah, like they all said
• 2:19:02
  it, they were like you. You've you're you're in a much
• 2:19:05
  better, you're much better person than than what we last
• 2:19:08
  saw you. It's.
• 2:19:09
  Powerful man. Yeah, I mean, I was, you know, I
• 2:19:12
  was like, I was thankful to hear it, but I was also like thinking
• 2:19:18
  of that, you know, thinking about my mom and my dad at the
• 2:19:20
  same time too. I'm like, see, you know, not to
• 2:19:23
  say like I told you so, but also, but to say like there was,
• 2:19:27
  there was, there was a moment in their life that they were so
• 2:19:33
  restricted in how they were seeing because of their
• 2:19:36
  worldview. You know what I mean?
• 2:19:39
  Like that portion of their life was blinding them to the reality
• 2:19:44
  of things. And they it wasn't giving me the
• 2:19:46
  chance to, to show them, you know, we can, we can live
• 2:19:51
  together peacefully. We can actually live together
• 2:19:54
  really well because we can be aligned.
• 2:19:59
  And once Spirit is aligned with spirit, it doesn't matter what
• 2:20:02
  label you put to it. You jive, you get along, you
• 2:20:05
  work together because you're on the same wavelengths, you're in
• 2:20:08
  the same frequencies, you know you're vibrating at that same
• 2:20:11
  frequency. Right.
• 2:20:14
  Yeah, yeah, it feels good and things get done.
• 2:20:17
  You know, like, yeah. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a
• 2:20:22
  sad thing. I, I mean, you see it all
• 2:20:25
  religions, belief systems for sure that I've come across.
• 2:20:31
  But yeah, that I think that the coolest thing, one of the
• 2:20:35
  coolest things with Heathenry for me is that like it's the
• 2:20:40
  conscious effort to one, learn a worldview, you know, 'cause we
• 2:20:45
  grew up with what we grew up with.
• 2:20:46
  And that's, that's what we get. That's our worldview, right?
• 2:20:50
  And and so like later on, we're taking this moment to like learn
• 2:20:55
  about an ancient culture, like our ancestors from long ago.
• 2:21:01
  They're like at least what we can, what they believe, you
• 2:21:05
  know, how they see things, what's important to them.
• 2:21:07
  Like we can learn a lot just through archaeology for sure.
• 2:21:11
  And to reflect on that and reflect on mine current
• 2:21:16
  worldview, which is just me asking what do I believe about
• 2:21:19
  that? You know, like, how do I act
• 2:21:21
  like cuz I I never really spend time thinking about myself in
• 2:21:25
  that way, you know, before I started self cultivating.
• 2:21:28
  And then yeah. So it's just like this
• 2:21:31
  opportunity to learn a new worldview, which not all of it
• 2:21:34
  I'm keen on following, you know, but.
• 2:21:40
  But it was you find what, what what what fits.
• 2:21:42
  Right. Yeah, and, and, and instead of
• 2:21:44
  like, so for me, heathen was just another thing I added into
• 2:21:48
  my life. It wasn't something that defined
• 2:21:50
  my life because I've been defined for a long time and
• 2:21:53
  heathen were just officially like, no, heathen was part of
• 2:21:57
  that. And it's a big part of it now.
• 2:21:58
  It's like primarily my main focus other than, you know, a
• 2:22:01
  few other studies and home schooling, you know, so like
• 2:22:05
  those otherwise like that's where my mind is, is on heathen
• 2:22:09
  around the sagas on the, you know, like, because we were
• 2:22:11
  going to have this conversation. So it gave me an excuse to study
• 2:22:15
  the Hava Mall for a couple weeks, you know?
• 2:22:17
  And I'm like, yeah, you know, I learned, 'cause I, I spent a lot
• 2:22:21
  of time recently reading academic papers, you know, and
• 2:22:24
  that's like a whole different perspective, but it deepens, It
• 2:22:28
  deepens the Hava Mall. Like, or you could just kind of
• 2:22:32
  see like the prevailing theory I think nowadays definitely from
• 2:22:36
  Crawford is, you know, that the Hava Mall is probably rooted in
• 2:22:39
  Norway, you know, and they based that off of like words that
• 2:22:44
  weren't used in Iceland but were used in Norway and some flora
• 2:22:49
  that, you know, wasn't in Iceland at that time.
• 2:22:53
  So there's like these strange little small little perceptions.
• 2:22:59
  Like something, for instance, there's one scene right before
• 2:23:03
  Love Fastenal's where it's like he's talking about sitting at
• 2:23:07
  the tree and reflecting and hearing about the ruins, like,
• 2:23:10
  and then like at the end of of the Hava Mall, it's like he's
• 2:23:15
  speaking from his hall. So like that's a different kind
• 2:23:18
  of that's that conflicts like that doesn't work.
• 2:23:24
  So change location in a way. Right.
• 2:23:28
  Well, but there's so many things like, you know, of course, like
• 2:23:32
  every culture had their own stories.
• 2:23:34
  So sometimes the stories could have been coming from a
• 2:23:36
  different place and they're different.
• 2:23:37
  There's small differences, you know, or, or like the order of
• 2:23:41
  the, the Hava Mall could be off or like there's any number of
• 2:23:45
  things, possibilities of why that could be something
• 2:23:48
  different. And so just learning about that
• 2:23:51
  brings me deeper into the Hava Mall from the standpoint of like
• 2:23:55
  history and and what, why were these different poems brought
• 2:23:59
  together? You know, you know, there's a
• 2:24:01
  lot of different questions that can ask that when when you start
• 2:24:04
  digging into the academic side. So.
• 2:24:07
  Definitely. Yeah.
• 2:24:09
  You get lost in it. Yeah, I have, but it always
• 2:24:13
  informs somehow. Or another stuff I learned on
• 2:24:16
  the academic side somehow translates over into some
• 2:24:19
  practical use or something. That's good.
• 2:24:23
  Yeah, right. It's.
• 2:24:24
  I mean, while you're there, you might as well.
• 2:24:26
  Yeah, make the best of it. Yeah, like.
• 2:24:27
  Right. Get something value from it.
• 2:24:31
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Brody, this has been so
• 2:24:33
  much fun. I was just looking to see like
• 2:24:35
  we've gone almost 2 1/2 hours talking about all kinds of great
• 2:24:39
  things. And I do want to say this has
• 2:24:42
  been great, but I'm going to, I think we're going to get about
• 2:24:44
  close to wrapping things up just because when people listen to
• 2:24:47
  this, you know, they're probably going to break this into a few
• 2:24:49
  segments, I'm sure. Because who has time to sit for
• 2:24:51
  2 1/2 hours and listen to people go on about awesome things like
• 2:24:55
  we did? But I love these conversations.
• 2:24:57
  I, you know, the time around these virtual tables seems to
• 2:25:02
  evaporate before you know it, at least for me.
• 2:25:05
  Like it's, it's, you lose track of time and but it's time well
• 2:25:10
  spent. I, you know, I'm glad that we
• 2:25:11
  got this chance to, to talk about so many things.
• 2:25:14
  And it's, you know, it's like scratching, just scratching the
• 2:25:17
  surface of it. You know, all the things that we
• 2:25:20
  talked about, especially all the things that are in your book
• 2:25:21
  coming home to Heathenry. It's you could, you could, you
• 2:25:24
  know, we could do a podcast on every chapter of your book.
• 2:25:28
  Technically, you know, we could do a chapter on, you know, magic
• 2:25:32
  and then holy tides and then afterlife self soul prayer and
• 2:25:36
  sacrifice gods and goddesses. We could, we could make a
• 2:25:39
  segment or, or chapter or or podcast episode on every one of
• 2:25:42
  those things. But we, we really covered a lot.
• 2:25:47
  And so first of all, thank you for being willing to come and,
• 2:25:52
  and ramble with me for this length of time and, and share
• 2:25:55
  some of your passion and your heart and your spirit with us
• 2:25:57
  today. Thank you.
• 2:26:00
  I hope you had a good time. I did.
• 2:26:02
  I love this is my this is my jammer here.
• 2:26:04
  I love just talking and connecting and seeing where like
• 2:26:08
  the spirit of, you know, 'cause our energies are connecting.
• 2:26:10
  And where does it go? I don't know you.
• 2:26:11
  Know, yeah. So.
• 2:26:13
  Well, I do have a few, just a, you know, 2-3 like random kind
• 2:26:17
  of rapid fire questions, just fun things just to throw out
• 2:26:21
  here. And whatever first comes to your
• 2:26:23
  mind after I ask it, you know, no right or wrong answer sort of
• 2:26:28
  thing. And then we'll go into to
• 2:26:32
  wrapping all this up. But my first one for you is that
• 2:26:35
  if you could ask Odin one question, what would you ask
• 2:26:39
  him? How you doing?
• 2:26:49
  He's like, well, how much time you got?
• 2:26:52
  Yeah, yeah, no, I, I generally like the first thing I want from
• 2:26:57
  people is to know how they're doing.
• 2:26:59
  Yeah. So it would be without any.
• 2:27:01
  How goes the fairing? How goes the wandering?
• 2:27:04
  Yeah, for sure. Do you have kind of keeping
• 2:27:09
  along the Odin theme in the Hava Mall obviously is a big, big
• 2:27:12
  focus for you. Do you have a favorite stanza or
• 2:27:16
  stanzas of the Hava Mall? Oh, I have a lot.
• 2:27:23
  Lately I've been focusing on 15, which is I, I think I mentioned
• 2:27:28
  earlier just about being bold and thoughtful and, and, and
• 2:27:31
  brave and happy and thankful, you know, like or generous.
• 2:27:41
  I mean, it depends on the translation, but, but in general
• 2:27:43
  it's like, I think that's one of the stanzas that kind of sum up
• 2:27:47
  a little bit of the Hava law in general.
• 2:27:49
  It's just this, yeah, have this take control of your life and,
• 2:27:54
  and, and live a good life, however you define that.
• 2:27:58
  So yeah, so 15. That stanza 15.
• 2:28:02
  Let me see here. So again, so many different
• 2:28:05
  translations. But excuse me, The son of a king
• 2:28:10
  shall be silent, and wise and bold in battle as well.
• 2:28:16
  Bravely and gladly a man shall go till the day of his death has
• 2:28:21
  come. Is that the one you're referring
• 2:28:22
  to? Yeah.
• 2:28:23
  Is that Thorpe? Is that it?
• 2:28:25
  Seems that was the that was the bellows translation.
• 2:28:27
  Oh, bellows OK. Alright, but yeah.
• 2:28:29
  Yeah, that's it. That's it.
• 2:28:31
  Yeah. Yeah, 'cause it's, it's kind of
• 2:28:34
  like laying it out. Here it is.
• 2:28:35
  Live your life, you know, and do it in.
• 2:28:37
  A good way, good man. So you're hosting A heathen
• 2:28:43
  feast, a heathen celebration, and you're the you're the host
• 2:28:47
  of the feast. What's on the table?
• 2:28:51
  Am I full hosting or I'm pot locking so that's that would be.
• 2:28:55
  A different You're a full host, and what, what, what, what?
• 2:28:57
  What do you bring? What are you?
• 2:28:58
  What are you providing for the feast?
• 2:29:00
  What's on what's on the table? Definitely homemade alcohol,
• 2:29:03
  that's for sure. OK.
• 2:29:07
  And then a strong meat dish and a strong vegetarian dish.
• 2:29:13
  OK. And then just a bunch of good
• 2:29:15
  sides, some homemade bread, probably something from the.
• 2:29:21
  I mean, almost everything would be from the garden, probably.
• 2:29:24
  Maybe even like, maybe one of the animals.
• 2:29:27
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you said?
• 2:29:29
  Homemade. You said homemade alcohol.
• 2:29:31
  Are you like Mead or or ale? Kind of.
• 2:29:34
  All right, so this year I'm going to do my first attempt at
• 2:29:37
  ale, but I've done Mead for 10 plus years, different wines,
• 2:29:44
  hard cider. Yeah.
• 2:29:48
  So, yeah. So ale 'cause we grew our hops,
• 2:29:51
  this is our second year of hops. So I, I finally actually got my
• 2:29:55
  butt out there to save some before 'cause we live in a
• 2:29:57
  really wet area, so I gotta be careful harvest, right, Just
• 2:30:00
  right, But so I got some so I'm gonna try some.
• 2:30:04
  I'm gonna try, I'll try some ale and beer some both like.
• 2:30:08
  But I got a 'cause I found a couple recipes for an old
• 2:30:11
  school, kind of like using some herbs, and I have some herbs, so
• 2:30:14
  I'm going to try that too to. I don't know what they call that
• 2:30:17
  kind of alcohol. Well, since you're a Mead maker,
• 2:30:20
  this is this is a question that was very specific with regards
• 2:30:23
  to Mead. So Mead with breakfast, yes or
• 2:30:27
  no? Yeah, hey, yeah, I can see that.
• 2:30:31
  I mean it's. Maybe even warm it up a little,
• 2:30:33
  which would be weird but I I've never had warm Mead but.
• 2:30:38
  Yeah. I mean you could maybe like do
• 2:30:40
  like a like a a mold meat or something like a spiced meat,
• 2:30:45
  maybe like a warm spiced meat. Yeah, I do that.
• 2:30:48
  We do that with our cider. We make some.
• 2:30:50
  Waffles. Or like that's, that's one of
• 2:30:52
  our traditions that an eggnog. So I got to collect some eggs
• 2:30:55
  and make some eggnog now, but. Extra nog.
• 2:31:00
  Oh yeah, there's nothing like homemade like this and it's not
• 2:31:04
  really hard, you know, it's just simple ingredients.
• 2:31:08
  You just simmer the milk and add your cream and you know,
• 2:31:12
  whatever. But yeah, yeah.
• 2:31:13
  No. Alright, last one.
• 2:31:17
  If you could witness any mythic event first hand, what would it
• 2:31:23
  be? Oh, dude, yeah, undeniably.
• 2:31:27
  It would be during like in the beginning, dude, that'd be so
• 2:31:31
  fucking epic. But I'd want to see it all the
• 2:31:33
  way till like we're lifted as logs and made into humans.
• 2:31:37
  Like not just, you know, the beginning in the building with
• 2:31:40
  emerge. Like I was like, not just.
• 2:31:43
  All licking the salt and and. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:31:46
  I mean, yeah. So that would be epic.
• 2:31:48
  That's cool. Yeah.
• 2:31:49
  I never thought about what that would be like to but yeah, great
• 2:31:53
  answer and great show, man. Great, great talking with you.
• 2:31:57
  I love, I love your spirit. I love the energy that you
• 2:31:59
  brought to the show and just being so, you know, being so in
• 2:32:03
  the moment with this and and going all the places that we
• 2:32:07
  did. I had a great time.
• 2:32:08
  Yeah. Me too man.
• 2:32:10
  Thank you. Man, and for so again, thank you
• 2:32:13
  for being here and everybody that's listened and watched the
• 2:32:15
  show, like I said very early on. First of all, thank you all for
• 2:32:19
  being here this long and then making it to the end because as
• 2:32:23
  I mentioned in the early parts of the episode, before or during
• 2:32:26
  after, whatever, the whole like weird technical bits, 2 things.
• 2:32:33
  All of Freddy's books are going to be LinkedIn, the description
• 2:32:36
  or show notes. So wherever you're catching
• 2:32:37
  this, be sure to head over there.
• 2:32:40
  If you're listening to this on the audio platforms, it'll be in
• 2:32:42
  the show notes. And if you're watching this on
• 2:32:44
  Patreon down in the description to get a copy or copies of
• 2:32:49
  coming home to Heathenry or any of the other books that that
• 2:32:52
  Frody has authored and kind of see what's behind him, him and
• 2:32:56
  his mind. And that's been put on the
• 2:32:57
  paper. Again, I do recommend coming
• 2:32:59
  home to Heathenry. If you're maybe considering
• 2:33:03
  Heathenry and you're, you're maybe trying to find where your
• 2:33:06
  home is in it, this could be a great source for you to, to draw
• 2:33:11
  some inspiration from. It's a, it's an easy read, but
• 2:33:15
  it's very informative, kind of opens up to some really
• 2:33:19
  important things with regards to the world views and customs and
• 2:33:26
  all that sort of thing. So check all that stuff out down
• 2:33:29
  there in the show notes or description.
• 2:33:31
  That's the number one. And then #2 is don't forget on
• 2:33:35
  Monday, December 29th at 7:00 PM Central Time on Patreon only our
• 2:33:42
  Season 6 finale live broadcast are going to be me and several
• 2:33:48
  other speakers and guests just rambling for however long.
• 2:33:52
  So check all that out. Hope to see you there.
• 2:33:56
  And thank you all for being here and supporting the show in any
• 2:33:58
  way that you can. And if you don't show up to the
• 2:34:00
  live broadcast and this is the last time you hear from me, I
• 2:34:03
  will talk to you all again in Season 7 next year in 2026.
• 2:34:06
  So stay tuned for details to come out for that here soon.
• 2:34:12
  Don't talk to each other again. Thank you all again for your
• 2:34:14
  support. Thanks for being here.
• 2:34:16
  May the gods continue to notice you, and may your ancestors
• 2:34:21
  smile upon you. We'll see you in the next one.
• 2:35:28
  I.