Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #93: Interview with Dr. Alan Chase, Director, EyeRetreat.org

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Remarkable World Commentary Episode #93: Interview with Dr. Alan Chase, Director, EyeRetreat.org · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

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  Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to
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  her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary.
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  Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
• 1:36
  insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners.
• 1:40
  Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
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  especially kids with disabilities.
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  Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach,
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  dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
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  law graduate, and podcast commentator.
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  She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
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  skills and expertise in access, technology and information.
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  As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles,
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  she just wants to make things better than possible.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary.
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  I'm Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly
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  through sound, touch and stubborn optimism.
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  I am a law graduate and accessibility consultant,
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  author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
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  You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010,
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  I won the landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its website
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  accessible to every Canadian, not just to cited ones.
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  And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen
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  disability groups to turn equal access into federal law,
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  and most recently, on June 3rd, 2023, I was tremendously humbled by Her Late
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  Majesty. S Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers.
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  And when I'm not in a courtroom or a committee room or a pottery studio,
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  you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss,
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  producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
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  gadgets talk back in plain language.
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  Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into
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  everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench,
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  where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas.
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  Now, before we jump into today's conversation,
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  let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a changemaker whose work is every bit as
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  remarkable as the world that we are trying to build.
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  I am pleased to welcome back Doctor Allen Chase,
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  who was with us last June.
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  Welcome, Doctor Allen.
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  And how are you doing today?
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Well thank you Donna. I am doing I am doing great and thank you for having me back.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh it's my pleasure. I'm dying to know what's cooking in your world.
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  What are you up to? And tell us about what's going on with the camp in July.
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  What are you planning?
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, well, you know, I think the first and foremost,
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  the the world of disability advocacy is, is ever changing.
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  It's it's never quiet.
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  It's never static. It ebbs.
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  It ebbs and flows. Yes.
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  And that's sort of where I live.
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  I live right in, in the, in the mix of that,
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  where it all intersects.
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  And I think one thing that has always been very,
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  very intriguing to me is how do we build capacity among,
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  you know, our, our students, our young adults.
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  So then they can be the these change makers because eventually people like you and I,
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  you know, we're, we're going to go do other things.
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  We're going to we're going to retire and we're going to enjoy life and.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: We have to build the next generation.
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  And so that's, that's one thing that, that I,
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  I really set out to do.
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  And so you mentioned, and we talked about this last year and,
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  and you, you asked, well, how's the camp coming this year?
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  Well, so, you know, the, the I retreat this is our 19th year.
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  Wow. Yeah. And, you know, I would never have thought 19 years ago when
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  this idea popped into my head.
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  I would never have thought that we would be where,
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  where we are today, where remarkably, we as,
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  as it stands now, the, the demand has been so great.
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  We have a waitlist this year.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No way.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: We do.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Tell us more.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, well, we just, we don't have, you know,
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  so we are very, very lucky that, you know, we work collaboratively with the
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  Governor Morehead School for the Blind in North Carolina,
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  and there's only so much space.
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  You know, we the I would love for, for it to be endless opportunity.
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  But you know, the reality is, is that you're,
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  you're only as big as, as your space, you know,
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  allows. So we I think right now we have, we're somewhere in the 40s,
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  we have around 40 or so that are coming and oh yes.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh my lord. Alright.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. So and, you know, we, we, we always try to change things up.
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  So we have a, a very robust schedule for the coming year to expose people to you know,
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  how to, and, you know, we have the, we have the two,
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  the two tracks. So there's one track for us going to college and learning how to be a
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  college student. And then there's another one for being an entrepreneur because,
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  you know, one thing that we've learned over the years is that,
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  you know, you might have a lot of, you know,
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  academic credentials, you may have a lot of good experience,
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  but there's still a barrier with employability.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So yeah.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. So sometimes you have to make your own,
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  your own path in life.
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  And that path might be starting your own business.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, indeed.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Yep. So I think our last year, the last couple of years our entrepreneurship
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  track has been a little larger than our college track.
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  This, this year it's, it's about 5050.
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  And, you know, as I mentioned, we're we're looking at some creative ways to,
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  to get people out there to, to show them, you know,
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  different, different job opportunities that they,
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  that they might find useful, beneficial, you know obviously accessibility
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  work is, is one of those areas because that's a natural skill.
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  It's something that you live and you breathe every day because you're,
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  you're a user, you're a user of assistive technology.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right?
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  Dr. Alan Chase: So, so that's one area.
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  But then, you know, we also recognize that some,
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  some folks may have other aspirations.
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  They maybe they want to practice law or maybe they want to be a business owner or they want
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  to be an accountant or whatever their, their goal might be.
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  Right? You know, so we have to connect them to to,
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  to mentors and to people in those fields so that they can,
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  they can get a feel for?
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  Is this really what I want to do?
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  And if it is, how do they go about actually doing it?
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, when you started out 19 years ago, how many students did you have?
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  Do you remember?
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, you know so going back 19 years ago, as I reflect on that we probably had
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  maybe. Maybe about 15 or so.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Whoa. Yeah.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: So huge, huge growth.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: The other thing that I think is, is really important is,
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  is the length of the program.
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  So we when we first started 19 years ago we were just a weekend event,
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  you know, we, we started on a Friday and it was,
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  it was basically, you know, three days, maybe three and a half days.
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  You know, we, we started on a Friday and we ended on a Monday.
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  Right?
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: And slowly over time, we've we've grown since to now where we we
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  start on a Friday and we go for about a week and a half because we don't end until the
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  following weekend. Right.
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  And, and so again, the, you know, the we've had,
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  we've had requests over the years from people to say we need more time.
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  We, we want there to be more time.
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  And the only limitation that we have is staffing and,
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  and really money. Because in this, you know,
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  in this particular instance, our entire program,
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  100% of it is volunteer.
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  We, we have no, no paid staff whatsoever.
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  Right.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: And so, you know, to us, and that includes myself.
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  And so to, to ask people, you know, to take a week off of their from
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  their lives, their jobs, their families to volunteer.
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  That's a big commitment.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: And so, you know, we, we recognize that.
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  And, and that's sort of been the, the, the reason that we haven't moved beyond
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  one week. But I think, I think the, the demand is there.
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  What, just when the, when the, when the resources are there to,
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  to provide for that.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But what about having like maybe two camps a year,
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  like one in the summer and maybe one in the spring?
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  Is that feasible? You think.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: You know, that's a really good question. And we've we've talked about that over the years
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  and there's, there's a couple of different competing factors that,
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  that play into that decision.
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  One of the factors again, goes back to resources and funding.
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  So we we receive two, two of our main funders is the Lions Club.
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  And our second one is the Delta Gamma Foundation.
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  And so the, the funding that we currently receive from them allows us to run our summer
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  program. And then of course, you know, we use the facilities at the
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  Governor Morehead School, which are we, we do pay for those facilities,
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  but it's a very nominal, nominal cost.
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  Right. So with that being said we would need to find space
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  where those same priorities align, you know,
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  that the, the, the cost is nominal someone who's willing to fund it and so on.
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  And one of the biggest challenges is that during the school year,
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  the. The governor Morehead School is not available because their students are they're
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  they're they're using the dormitories.
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  They're using. They're using the classrooms.
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  And so then we have to find an alternative space.
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  And, you know, we need space that allows for overnight sleeping.
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  We need space for food.
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  We need space for classrooms.
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  And there are, there are places out there like community centers,
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  churches, things like that that are willing to,
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  to work with us, but not that have all of all of those things.
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  You know, like churches and community centers,
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  they have space where we can have classes, but they don't have dormitories.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? Right. Yeah.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: So in any event, you know, I, it's one of those things where it's a
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  goal. But it's a goal that once every once everything aligns,
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  then I think it'll be a reality.
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  We just have to work toward that goal.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, what about like, during March break?
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  Is that possible?
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. So spring break, you know the, the thing,
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  the thing about the school itself or the facility piece is that while the students are
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  not physically there their, their belongings are still there.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. Yes, yes, yes.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: You know, so you know, it's still their dorm room,
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  their dorm space, you know, they, the only time they actually move out is
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  during the, for the summer.
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  Right. And so that's again, that, that's where the,
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  the, the challenge comes into play.
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  The other, the other challenge that we, that comes into play,
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  I think is, is just scheduling.
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  And when I say scheduling, I mean Pretty much everybody.
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  It doesn't matter if you're in middle school,
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  high school, college. Pretty much everybody gets the summer off,
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  right?
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Yes.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: But the, the rest of the school year, things are not as consistent.
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  You know spring, spring break for, for a college is oftentimes different than
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  for high schools. Right.
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  And so finding a common week where most people are,
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  are also off of school is just really challenging.
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  So you know, that that creates a barrier there because if we pick the week,
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  you know, some may have to miss school and some may not be willing to miss school and so
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  on.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What about two summer camps then?
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that goes back to what we,
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  you know, if we during the summer, we, we certainly have the we have the space.
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  Right. It would just be a matter of, we would need to convince folks to give us a
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  little bit more money.
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  Yeah. And then we would need to convince folks that you know,
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  we would, we would need more volunteers because,
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  you know, as it, as it stands now, we have a,
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  a, an excellent dedicated staff that comes for a week.
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  And I'm, I'm not so sure, you know, after, after this one week you
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  know, and we're super excited that you're able to join us this year.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, I am honored and I'm privileged.
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  Thank you for inviting me.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Yes. And I'm sure so, you know, at let, let,
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  let me paint the picture at the beginning of the week.
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  Everyone is super excited.
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  There's lots of energy.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: And then by the end and by the end of the week,
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  everyone is exhausted because you've you've been on the move.
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  You've you've been in classes, you've been off campus,
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  you've, you've stayed up late making new friends.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right, right.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: And so that's why I, that's why I say, you know,
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  we, if we did a two week two weeks, we would probably have to build in a break or
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  find a, a second set of volunteers to, to, to staff it be just,
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  you know, because it's, it's a lot, it's a, it's a very intense week.
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  We, we start with breakfast at around 730 in the morning.
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  And then we, we, we pretty much, we have classes and activities all the way
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  until dinner time. And then even.
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  And then even in the evenings, we have evening activities.
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  Folks are going to the gym.
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  They're going to the game room.
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  They're going off campus.
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  So pretty much you're, you're on the go from breakfast until you,
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  until you go to bed.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh my gosh. It's it's hectic.
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  Yeah yeah yeah. Now tell me about the content of some of these activities like
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  lectures, workshops. Tell me about it.
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  Tell us about it.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
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  So you know, again, we have, we have two tracks.
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  We have the college track and the entrepreneurship track.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: And the entrepreneurship track, you start at the beginning of the week with
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  creating an idea and we encourage you to think about,
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  you know, what are your interests, what are you good at? What do you want to do?
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  Well, what motivates you?
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  And then over the course of the week, the classes that they take build on that idea
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  so that at the by the end of the week, you have to make a presentation or a pitch.
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  Sort of think of like Shark Tank, right?
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  You're, you're in front of investors and you have to pitch your,
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  your business idea. And so that's the, that's what they do over the course of the
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  week. They, they take their idea, they fine tune it.
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  They develop their business plan.
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  And by the end of the week, they're pitching their idea.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: So that's sort of the, the entrepreneurship track,
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  the college track. You, you start the week again with,
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  with an idea of, you know, where do I want to go to college?
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  What, what do I want to major in?
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  All those Important decisions, you know.
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  And part of that decision also is what do I want to do with my future?
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  You know, your future might be maybe the career path that you want to go down requires
• 20:47
  you to go to graduate school.
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  And so then you have to think about, well I have to build my undergraduate career
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  to prepare me to go to graduate school.
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  And so we start with, again, with those big ideas.
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  And then the courses over the over that week all align with those concepts.
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  So how, how can you be successful?
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  So how do you have to be a good advocate?
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  You have to know what your needs are. You have to know what your accommodation should
• 21:19
  be.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right?
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  Dr. Alan Chase: You have to know how to navigate you know, selecting your classes,
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  what classes do I pick?
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  How to know what a course catalog is.
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  Things like that. How to how to, you know, how to make sure that you're
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  meeting grade point requirements and you know,
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  and filling out applications and, and so on.
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  So, and, and accessing just across the campus,
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  accessing all the resources, you know, the, maybe the career center or the
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  writing center or whatever the case might be.
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  And so for that group, for that, for the, for the college track,
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  by the end of the week, their goal is they also have to do a
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  presentation, but their presentation is geared more toward what they have learned
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  over the course of the week about themselves.
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  And kind of laying out a roadmap of this is, this is where I am.
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  This is where I want to go and this is how I'm going to get there.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Do you have repeat students, doctor?
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  Like, would they come, like from more than one year?
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  Dr. Alan Chase: So, you know, we, we do, we, we do have some who,
• 22:39
  who come for more than one year.
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  And we encourage that.
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  And the reason we encourage it is because I'm going to go back to what I said at the very
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  beginning. We want to build capacity.
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  And so we want we want you to come back as a student.
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  But more importantly, what we really, really want is we want folks
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  to come back to be part of our staff.
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  We want.
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  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
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  Dr. Alan Chase: We want you to come as a student.
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  You experience what we do, how we do it, and then we want them to come
• 23:17
  back and then serve as a mentor.
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  We want them to be a mentor pass on their experience.
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  You know, they, maybe they came, they came to our college track.
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  They went to college. Then let's say they went and got a job and got some experience.
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  And, you know, now they come back and they say,
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  you know, now that I've gained all this experience, I want to share my knowledge.
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  I want to give back and share my knowledge with others.
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  And so we, you know, of course, we encourage that.
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  And then we also, you know, the next step above that is we,
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  we want to build their leadership skills.
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  So we have, we have opportunities beyond being a mentor to,
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  to be a leader. So we have some coordinator level positions where you're responsible for
• 24:12
  coordinating various aspects of the program.
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  So for example, you know, we have like a recreation coordinator.
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  And so that that person kind of organizes all the evening activities.
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  And we, we have a coordinator over the entire career track.
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  And we have a coordinator over the entire college track.
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  We have dorm coordinators who are responsible.
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  The dorms are a great learning opportunity because a lot of people
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  have first, well, first and foremost, most people have may have never experienced a
• 24:55
  situation where they have to share a living space.
• 24:58
  So that's that, that's, that's the first challenge.
• 25:01
  The second challenge is for a lot of people they may be the only person with a visual
• 25:08
  impairment in their community.
• 25:10
  They, they, they may have interacted with people,
• 25:13
  you know, virtually or on the telephone or in some way like that with other people with
• 25:20
  visual impairments, but not, not in a physical in-person space.
• 25:24
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right.
• 25:26
  Dr. Alan Chase: And so it, so you know it.
• 25:30
  I like to call them learning opportunities.
• 25:31
  So, you know, are there, are there challenges?
• 25:34
  Are there some difficulties that arise when you're sharing a living space?
• 25:41
  You know, do let's say, for example, do snacks and drinks magically
• 25:48
  grow legs and walk away?
• 25:51
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.
• 25:52
  Dr. Alan Chase: Absolutely. They do. You know, does, does one person want to get up at 5
• 26:00
  a.m. and get a shower and, you know, listen to music while their
• 26:07
  roommate wants to sleep in right up until breakfast time?
• 26:11
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, yes.
• 26:13
  Dr. Alan Chase: It happens. And so those are learning opportunities to,
• 26:17
  to problem solve and to figure out, well, okay,
• 26:20
  how, how do I talk to my roommate about the sleeping schedule or the bathroom schedule?
• 26:25
  Or How do I communicate with folks to say, hey,
• 26:29
  look, this stuff in this cabinet on the right side,
• 26:34
  this is my stuff. Don't touch it.
• 26:37
  Right.
• 26:38
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: On the left side.
• 26:39
  Dr. Alan Chase: That's right.
• 26:40
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I won't touch it.
• 26:41
  Dr. Alan Chase: That's right. So you know, and so that's sort of the social side.
• 26:47
  So, you know, there's the social side of it.
• 26:50
  And so with when, when you're a coordinator, you know,
• 26:54
  when you, when you have a leadership role within our program,
• 26:58
  those are sort of the things that that our coordinators have to,
• 27:05
  to deal with and address and it, and it builds your leadership skills because,
• 27:10
  you know, honestly, what, what usually happens is most people will,
• 27:13
  they'll come to me, they'll say, well, doctor Chase,
• 27:15
  this happened or doctor Chase, can you, can you do this?
• 27:18
  Or can you solve this?
• 27:20
  Or, and you know, and don't get me wrong, there,
• 27:25
  there are certain situations that that only I can address.
• 27:29
  Right. But but by far I say, have you talked to your coordinator?
• 27:36
  You know, have you have you talked to your mentor?
• 27:40
  And usually the answer is no.
• 27:42
  And so then I'm like, well, your first step is you need to talk to
• 27:45
  them and try to work it out before you come to me.
• 27:48
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right. So.
• 27:51
  Dr. Alan Chase: You know, so we're trying to build. So, you know,
• 27:54
  to wrap it all up, we're trying to not only build up for our students,
• 28:01
  their academic and their employability skills,
• 28:04
  but we're also trying to build their social skills. And then for,
• 28:08
  for our staff, we're trying to build their leadership skills.
• 28:12
  So then, you know, again, later on in the future that they have the
• 28:16
  capacity to carry forward what what you and I have been doing.
• 28:23
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So it's a very intense week.
• 28:26
  And these these kids or youngsters, they get to meet new people.
• 28:33
  Is, is this just confined to the state of, you know,
• 28:37
  North Carolina or does it go across the US?
• 28:42
  Dr. Alan Chase: That's a really good question. So we by far because the response,
• 28:50
  the, the responsibility of travel is on the student and their family.
• 28:56
  So, so by far the, the majority of the people that come to the camp are from the,
• 29:04
  the, the eastern part of the United States.
• 29:07
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
• 29:08
  Dr. Alan Chase: Okay. Just because transportation is, is simpler,
• 29:13
  easier, cheaper. Yes. Now, that doesn't mean that we,
• 29:17
  we, we do have, and, and we have had people come from all over the United States and,
• 29:24
  and even other countries.
• 29:26
  Oh.
• 29:27
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
• 29:28
  Dr. Alan Chase: So, for example, you know, this year we, we have some folks coming from
• 29:33
  Illinois. We, we've had, we've had folks from California,
• 29:40
  New York, new Jersey, Massachusetts, Florida,
• 29:45
  Texas, I mean, really all all over.
• 29:48
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 29:49
  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. One year, several years many years ago we did have two people who came from Mexico.
• 29:57
  Oh. So.
• 29:58
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
• 29:59
  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah. So, you know you know, I, I suppose we could claim that we're
• 30:04
  international.
• 30:06
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Of course. Yeah. Wow. So you're saying for this year,
• 30:12
  you got about 40 students?
• 30:15
  Yes.
• 30:16
  Dr. Alan Chase: Roughly.
• 30:17
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. And the dorm rooms themselves.
• 30:22
  Are they like private rooms or.
• 30:24
  You got to share. Tell me.
• 30:26
  Tell us about that.
• 30:29
  Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, yeah. So? So I'm going to try to paint a picture here for you.
• 30:34
  So think of like a suite.
• 30:37
  So there are in one dorm room, there are two beds.
• 30:44
  So you share an actual room?
• 30:46
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 30:47
  Dr. Alan Chase: And then there is a bathroom in the middle that connects to another dorm room.
• 30:55
  Yeah. So it's a suite of four people to two people per room.
• 31:03
  Okay. With with a common bathroom.
• 31:06
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bathroom. Okay.
• 31:08
  Dr. Alan Chase: And so that kind of goes back to what I, you know,
• 31:11
  alluded to earlier of if all four people decide I'm going to sleep in and get up at
• 31:19
  the last minute. Well, four people can't all take a shower at one
• 31:24
  time.
• 31:25
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right? So they have to schedule each other or,
• 31:29
  you know, whatever.
• 31:30
  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, you have to you have to coordinate.
• 31:32
  And, and what I and what I say to people is what that boils down to is communication.
• 31:39
  You, you have to communicate.
• 31:42
  And, you know, you may not always.
• 31:45
  And just like in a, in an employment situation,
• 31:47
  right? You, you may ask your boss for something.
• 31:50
  You may not always get what you want.
• 31:53
  And that's okay, but you have to live with it.
• 31:58
  And so in this situation, you know, maybe your routine is that you get
• 32:05
  a shower and, you know, in the mornings, but you may have to be
• 32:10
  flexible and take your shower the evening before.
• 32:14
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Interesting. And these kids are eager to go and they know all these things before they
• 32:23
  get there, right?
• 32:25
  Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, yes. Yes. So actually next in two weeks.
• 32:30
  In two weeks, we're gonna have a large group meeting.
• 32:35
  So it's going to be the students, all of the mentors,
• 32:38
  our coordinators, everybody who's coming, they're all going to come to this big meeting
• 32:43
  and we're going to give them you know, basically an overview.
• 32:47
  Just like now we've, we've shared all this with,
• 32:49
  with them in writing, you know, we've shared them with them,
• 32:53
  you know, this is what you need to bring, this is what the space is like.
• 32:56
  Here's the schedule. But during this group meeting,
• 33:00
  you know, we're going to go over some of the logistical things,
• 33:03
  sort of like how I've communicated to you.
• 33:07
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.
• 33:07
  Dr. Alan Chase: And again, it's, it's going to, it's going to be an opportunity for folks to,
• 33:12
  to ask questions, clarify things.
• 33:16
  Advertisement: From.
• 33:17
  Dr. Alan Chase: You know, things like that.
• 33:20
  You know, we, we want to be very transparent and we want,
• 33:24
  we want folks who are coming to know that these,
• 33:28
  the, we, these things are done intentionally because we,
• 33:32
  we want it to be a learning opportunity.
• 33:34
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Right. I personally am looking forward to this opportunity.
• 33:42
  I've started with you in 2024, and I was delighted when you invited me to
• 33:48
  come down this year, and I'm looking forward to it.
• 33:51
  I mean, the first year I, I, I was with you virtually,
• 33:56
  those kids just blew me away with their attitude.
• 33:59
  So refreshing, so eager to, to do things and,
• 34:05
  and to share their ideas.
• 34:07
  It was amazing. Last year was very similar.
• 34:10
  So this year I get to see it face to face and I can't wait.
• 34:16
  You know it's I don't know what else to say.
• 34:20
  I mean, it it's it's great.
• 34:22
  And, you know, I, I hope that moving forward after this year,
• 34:28
  I hope you find a way to expand.
• 34:30
  But 40 kids, I, I don't know what I was expecting you to tell me,
• 34:34
  but 40 kids is a lot, right?
• 34:37
  Is this the most number of kids that you've ever had?
• 34:42
  Dr. Alan Chase: That's a really good question.
• 34:44
  And the answer is actually no.
• 34:48
  I think the, the largest number that we've ever,
• 34:51
  ever had I want to say was 52.
• 34:56
  Oh. And we were and at, and the year that we had 52,
• 35:03
  we were literally bursting at the seams.
• 35:08
  Because, you know, again the, the, the space is only as big as the space
• 35:13
  is, right? I, I can't, I can't make the rooms bigger than they are.
• 35:18
  Yeah. And so, you know, we've, we've sort of,
• 35:22
  we've sort of have found over the last 19 years that,
• 35:26
  you know, the, the sweet spot, a good number is somewhere,
• 35:32
  somewhere between 35 and 45.
• 35:36
  So we're right there where we want to be.
• 35:38
  We're not, you know, we, we, we have found that more than 45 were
• 35:43
  stretched a little thin.
• 35:45
  If, if it's under 35, you know, you, you lose a little bit of,
• 35:50
  of the learning just because the the numbers are smaller.
• 35:55
  So I think we're, we're right where we want to be.
• 35:58
  We, we found the sweet spot.
• 36:02
  And, you know, we're, we're, we're super excited to,
• 36:07
  to be able to continue and, you know, we're,
• 36:10
  we're already we haven't even had this year yet.
• 36:13
  And we're, already having conversations about,
• 36:16
  well, what are we going to do for our the big 20 years?
• 36:19
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: All right. Next year. Yeah.
• 36:23
  Something special, I guess.
• 36:25
  Yeah. Wow. And you've been involved from the word go.
• 36:33
  Like this is your brainchild.
• 36:37
  Dr. Alan Chase: It is. Yes. You know I believe that things are really formed out of necessity.
• 36:47
  And so, you know, again, 19 years ago, we, we had an opportunity where
• 36:54
  people, people came to me and they said, hey,
• 36:57
  look, you know, we're, we're, we're struggling here with,
• 37:01
  you know, how do we navigate this, this thing called college?
• 37:04
  How do we know what to do and when to do it?
• 37:06
  And how do we talk to people?
• 37:08
  And so it was born out of necessity.
• 37:12
  And then and at the time we knew there was a need,
• 37:16
  but we didn't know how how great the need was.
• 37:21
  And I think what we've learned over the years is that the,
• 37:24
  the, the need is, is tremendous.
• 37:26
  It's a, it's a huge need out there.
• 37:28
  Yeah. And I, and then I think the other thing that we've,
• 37:32
  we've noticed and very similar to what you shared during your introduction is that
• 37:38
  we've, over the years, what I think we've identified is that
• 37:44
  education, largely that most of the barriers in education have been addressed with
• 37:53
  legislation. There's, there's laws now that govern accessibility
• 37:58
  and accommodations and things like that.
• 38:01
  Right. The, the barrier that still exists in education is really the,
• 38:10
  the, the social piece the how do I participate in the,
• 38:16
  the broader educational community?
• 38:21
  Because there's such a high focus on academics.
• 38:24
  We think we forget, we forget about, well, the,
• 38:28
  the social skills, we forget about sports clubs,
• 38:33
  organizations, things like that.
• 38:36
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 38:37
  Dr. Alan Chase: And so I think we're, you know, we're, we're making progress there.
• 38:40
  Now the area where I, I think we're, we're not making progress is
• 38:47
  and the employment side.
• 38:49
  So yeah, you know, we, we have, again, we have laws on the books.
• 38:54
  There's, there's lots of legislation about you know job accommodations and,
• 39:02
  and things of that nature.
• 39:04
  But what, what we're seeing though within the numbers,
• 39:08
  the, the statistics, the data tells us that that people with visual impairments are still
• 39:14
  largely, you know, either unemployed or underemployed.
• 39:19
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. And that's a very sad picture.
• 39:21
  It even exists here in Canada.
• 39:24
  Dr. Alan Chase: Right.
• 39:25
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Maybe globally, I don't know.
• 39:27
  But what was the stats that I, I saw the other day.
• 39:31
  71% of unemployment amongst vision impaired people.
• 39:39
  Dr. Alan Chase: That sounds that sounds about right.
• 39:42
  And I and you know, and I think the I do think it's a global issue from a lot of the
• 39:50
  research that I have done, you'll, you'll find that in the countries
• 39:57
  there are some countries out there where unemployment is very low for people with
• 40:04
  visual impairments. But when you dig a little deeper,
• 40:09
  when you kind of peel that back, which will which you'll often find is that
• 40:14
  the reason that that the unemployment is so low is because most of those jobs are,
• 40:21
  are, are government jobs.
• 40:22
  They're the, some countries have systems in place where there are certain
• 40:32
  jobs that, that are set aside by the government specifically for people with
• 40:38
  visual impairments.
• 40:39
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right, right.
• 40:41
  Dr. Alan Chase: And so then, you know, then then you have to ask the question of,
• 40:44
  well, you know, that's great that they have a job,
• 40:48
  but it may not be the field that that they want to be in.
• 40:53
  Right. And so, you know, it creates a, it creates a system where,
• 40:59
  you know, your, your self-determination, your your goal,
• 41:03
  your motivation you might be locked into something you're not happy with,
• 41:08
  right? So but yeah, so to connect that back to what we were talking about that's,
• 41:16
  so that's one of the, that's one of the motivators for,
• 41:20
  for us is, you know, we're, we're seeing, so we're seeing positive
• 41:22
  things. But we're also still seeing some, some need.
• 41:26
  And so 19 years ago, we started based on necessity and that necessity is,
• 41:34
  is still there today.
• 41:36
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And probably will continue to grow.
• 41:40
  I think. Right.
• 41:44
  Dr. Alan Chase: Oh yeah, I, I think you know, again, looking at some of the data and I
• 41:52
  think this is, you know, this is where I think disability kind of
• 41:56
  intersects a little bit with the, the medical world.
• 42:00
  Advances in medicine have allowed people who maybe ten,
• 42:08
  20, 30 years ago may not have lived.
• 42:11
  Maybe their medical condition was such that they,
• 42:13
  they pass away early in life.
• 42:15
  Or maybe, maybe they're not even born at all.
• 42:18
  But now they, you know, they, they are born and they may have a
• 42:23
  visual impairment and other disabilities.
• 42:27
  And so we have to account now that for, for that population they,
• 42:34
  they also equally need to be employable.
• 42:38
  They need to have access to higher education.
• 42:42
  And you know, they, they don't need to be institutionalized.
• 42:45
  They, they need to be able to have the self-determination to say,
• 42:50
  well, this is what I want to do with my life.
• 42:53
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. This is very interesting and, you know,
• 42:59
  really, really exciting for me.
• 43:00
  I'm really looking forward to being with you at the end of July.
• 43:05
  But tell me, Doctor Allen, what if you had a wish or a hope?
• 43:12
  Because my clock is winding down here.
• 43:14
  What? What would be one of your cherished hopes for the future?
• 43:21
  I know this camp is enormous, and this camp has really done a lot over all
• 43:26
  these years, and to be still around after 19 years is a great feat in itself.
• 43:32
  So what are your hopes and dreams moving forward after this camp?
• 43:38
  Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, I love that question.
• 43:40
  And I, I, I'm going to I'm going to answer it in a pretty broad sense.
• 43:46
  Yeah. Because, you know, I, I think our camp is at the,
• 43:51
  at the end of the day, the core of what we do is education.
• 43:55
  And we are one very small piece of a very big puzzle.
• 44:01
  Yeah. Because we're only there for one, one week out of the year.
• 44:05
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 44:06
  Dr. Alan Chase: I think my wish would be that we we need to look at the whole child,
• 44:15
  the whole person. And I think our our public schools,
• 44:21
  our educational system.
• 44:23
  I think we do a decent job in some cases, a good job of the the academic piece,
• 44:33
  but I, I, my fear is, is that we, we, we don't do a good job for
• 44:38
  those extra the, you know, there's the expanded core curriculum,
• 44:42
  which has nine areas that are some of them are associated with academics,
• 44:49
  but. But most of them are not.
• 44:51
  And those are the nine areas that really.
• 44:54
  Research has identified that a person with a visual impairment needs to,
• 45:00
  to master and be successful at in order to to be successful and independent.
• 45:06
  Right. And so I, I think that our, our educational system needs to embrace the
• 45:12
  idea that we're not just educating a person academically,
• 45:19
  but we're educating the whole person.
• 45:21
  And so we have to allow time and opportunity to incorporate some of those non-academic
• 45:28
  skills into what we do.
• 45:33
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It's going to be very interesting.
• 45:35
  And, you know, like with AI now being a part of the landscape,
• 45:39
  how are we going to shape the futures of our leaders?
• 45:45
  You know I don't know, you know, but I know one thing that concerns
• 45:50
  me is that when you and I retire, that there are people there ready to pick up
• 45:56
  the mantle and keep on going, you know.
• 46:01
  Dr. Alan Chase: Well, you know, I think the, the, the answer to that,
• 46:05
  to that question which is very interesting is that the you'll notice that a lot of people
• 46:12
  in our field don't retire or if they do retire,
• 46:17
  they continue, they continue to work after retirement.
• 46:21
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 46:21
  Dr. Alan Chase: Because they, they live in that, that void of,
• 46:25
  of where they fear. Well, if I, if I do stop working,
• 46:30
  then no one's going to come behind me and fill the gap,
• 46:33
  right?
• 46:34
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:35
  Dr. Alan Chase: And, and so that's, you know, we have a lot of great people in the field
• 46:40
  who who are at the, the time of retirement or,
• 46:44
  or, or well beyond the time for retirement.
• 46:48
  But it's such a specialized field and there's so few people and we,
• 46:54
  we have not done as good of a job as we could have of building the next generation.
• 47:01
  So I think that's, you know, again, that's, it's,
• 47:04
  it's necessity. We're, we're, we're building it based on necessity.
• 47:09
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I agree. Doctor Allen, it has been a pleasure having you back.
• 47:15
  And we've learned so much.
• 47:17
  And you know, I know our listeners are are going to be really interested to be following
• 47:22
  you as we as as you go along.
• 47:25
  And I'm looking forward to, to actually meeting you in person and Ashley
• 47:30
  and Tiffany and everybody else at the end of July.
• 47:35
  All right. Well, we are.
• 47:36
  Dr. Alan Chase: Super excited to have you.
• 47:37
  And for all of to all of your listeners you know,
• 47:41
  I, again, I, I encourage all of you to, to check us out,
• 47:44
  be advocates and, and reach out, let us know what your needs are and how we
• 47:49
  can help. At some point we would, we would love to continue to expand and be
• 47:56
  able to touch, touch people in other places.
• 47:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I might have a way for you to be able to expand,
• 48:02
  and I will send you an email offline and introduce you to my associate,
• 48:07
  Aaron. Aaron is the godfather of persons with disabilities network.
• 48:15
  And I think that this could benefit you in many ways.
• 48:17
  So stay tuned. But in the meantime, thank you for being here again.
• 48:23
  And we'll, we'll be happy to have you again.
• 48:26
  And you know, in a few months after this camp is over.
• 48:30
  Dr. Alan Chase: All right. Well, thank you again and I hope everyone has a great day.
• 48:35
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You too. Take care now and see you soon.
• 48:38
  Bye bye. Bye bye now. Bye.
• 48:42
  Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com.
• 48:49
  Until next time.