Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster - Series 8A (featuring Ken Moss & Mark McManus)

Transcript

Strictly Come Hamster - Series 8A (featuring Ken Moss & Mark McManus) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:00
It is beautiful. No, it isn't.
0:03
It's just far away. Everything looks too small.
0:06
I prefer it down there. Everything is huge.
0:10
Everything is so important. Every detail, every moment,
0:14
every life clumped to. How could you kill me?
0:19
For the same reason that you're asking me that question, because
0:21
you don't really want to carry on.
0:26
What happened to the other joys? When you die, you're the control
0:28
node, aren't you? Presumably they'll deactivate.
0:32
I will not die. I will reach the promised land
0:35
there. Isn't any promised land.
0:37
This is just it's a superstition that you have picked up from all
0:41
the humanity you've stuffed inside yourself.
0:43
I am not dead. You are a broom question.
0:52
You take a broom, you replace the handle, and then later you
0:56
replace the brush, and you do that over and over again.
1:00
Is it still the same broom? Answer?
1:02
No, of course it isn't. But you can still sweep the
1:05
floor, which is not strictly relevant.
1:06
Skip that last part. You have replaced every piece of
1:09
yourself, mechanical and organic, time and time again.
1:13
There's not a trace of the original you left.
1:17
You probably can't even remember where you got that face from.
1:28
It cannot end. It has to, you know it does.
1:33
There's only one way out. Self destruction is against my
1:36
basic programme now. That is against mine.
2:15
Joe, you look lovely today. Have you had a wash?
2:19
You. Bitch, welcome back to Strictly
2:22
Come Hamster, the Doctor Who Championship podcast.
2:27
See. Well done.
2:28
Well done. Two in a row, 2IN.
2:31
A row. My name is Joe Ford and I am
2:35
here today for my sins to talk about Steven Moffett season of
2:41
Doctor Who. And before I give away any
2:45
secrets of my opinion, I will hand straight over to my lovely
2:49
Mr. Rod Brown. Hello, Rod.
2:51
Hey, Joe, how's it going? I've been watching Stephen
2:54
Moffett this week. You bastard.
2:57
It's done. It's got a good time with it.
2:59
Actually. They're quite fun with it.
3:00
Don't keep your powers dry. Well, I'm very excited to be
3:03
discussing these episodes tonight.
3:05
So what have we got in store? Well, the big Doctor Who
3:09
anniversary is over, so we're back to a normal run of
3:11
episodes. Which really means we'll lose a
3:13
little bit of the audience and the series might not be quite as
3:16
high profile as previously. But to compensate for that,
3:19
we've got a brand new Doctor. He's far more cold, aloof and
3:23
frankly a bit rude compared to his more youthful predecessor.
3:27
We've also got a companion that we already know because she
3:29
travelled with the Doctor's previous incarnation, but now
3:32
she's wondering if she wants to be with this new version.
3:35
And behind the scenes, we've got the main man being accused by
3:37
the fans of staying on too long. Oh, I'm sorry, hang on, those
3:42
are my notes for season 22. We're actually covering the 1st
3:45
6 episodes of series 8 with Peter Capaldi and that's a whole
3:49
different matter, isn't it? There are one or two
3:52
similarities. Though let's be honest, it could
3:54
be, and I think we will probably touch on them during the course
3:56
of tonight. But to help us find our way
4:00
through this wonderful series, we're joined by two very special
4:04
guests, the green one and the not so green one.
4:07
Or it could be the other way round.
4:09
I mustn't prejudge. Well, you are both similar
4:11
heights. Maybe you should wear labels.
4:14
Between us, we're going to decide which story will be
4:16
lifting the Persian glitter ball and which will be left to be
4:19
eaten by sand piranhas. So let's welcome tonight's
4:22
guests, both of whom are newcomers to the Strictly dance
4:25
floor, but whose voices you will absolutely recognise.
4:29
Ken, let's start with you. Introduce yourself to the
4:31
Strictly audience. Well, spells best on that
4:35
description. That makes me strax, doesn't it?
4:37
With the I couldn't possibly. Comment.
4:42
I'm. Always throwing newspapers at me
4:44
as well, you know. And knocking you out in the
4:47
bedroom. I beg your pardon, Joe, It
4:50
starts. It starts Please continue me.
4:53
You will have heard me at various places.
4:56
I do the Xtomos experiment with Doctor Simon Exton, the Archive
5:00
of Audio Antiquities and Kinky Boots with the same.
5:04
Now I'm Bob Note with Paul Iles Rush and you'll have heard me on
5:08
Hamster Book Club doing the book, reading with Joe and
5:12
loving every second of it, it has to be said.
5:15
What even the stranger? Oh.
5:18
That was my favorite. Well, the one where I had to go
5:21
through the porn library and find all the music for me.
5:27
We could hear you blushing at a distance.
5:30
He doesn't blush, What are you talking about?
5:33
It's not gone on my YouTube channel.
5:35
You noted John? No, I did notice that, yeah.
5:38
Everything else but that, yeah. And let's also welcome Mark.
5:42
Mark, welcome to Strictly. Thank you very much for having
5:45
me. Yeah, so I you may recognise
5:48
movies from the Track One podcast.
5:50
You can hear me regularly on there and also Maximum Power,
5:52
the Blake 7 podcast. And then kind of various
5:56
appearances on Doctor Who literature.
5:59
Hamster with a blunt Pen Knife and Gallifrey is most wanted.
6:03
He's so, he's so humble, isn't he?
6:04
Like he's spawned the careers of so many podcasters and he's
6:09
there going well. You may have heard of me from
6:11
there, for goodness sakes. Fabulous trap one.
6:15
What a fabulous array of guests you have on there, Mark.
6:18
Yeah. I I hope you're very proud of
6:20
your podcast. I think it's a it's a wonderful
6:22
thing. Yeah, well, we get so many great
6:24
people on, so it makes it makes it a really good podcast.
6:27
I think we were Gary Gillett on this week, which is been, yeah,
6:31
been been fantastic. Did he come dressed as the fan
6:34
that he he did in that DWM feature?
6:37
I like to think so. Fabulous.
6:41
Well, we are tonight going to be discussing, as I said, the 1st 6
6:44
episodes of Series 8. So before getting into the
6:48
stories themselves, gentlemen, what are your overall feelings
6:51
about this run of episodes? Mark, let's start with you.
6:55
Yeah, I absolutely love these this series.
6:57
I think up up to this point, this was my favorite series of
7:02
modern Doctor Who. When it came out, I immediately
7:05
loved Peter Capaldi as the Doctor.
7:07
I love Clara as well. And the the sort of slightly
7:11
different tone and pace that came in with this series.
7:14
When they decided they wanted to do sort of longer scenes and and
7:17
that kind of thing, I took to it immediately.
7:20
So yeah, love the humour. I love most of the stories in
7:23
the season. In fact, as we were saying
7:25
before we started recording, I've done Deep Breath and Into
7:27
the Dalek already on on Hamster with Joe.
7:30
So yeah, any, any long term listeners might, might already
7:34
know of my my love for these. Fortunately this time around,
7:37
right? I mean, I'll say fortunately,
7:39
watching a Doctor Who episode with you, Mark, is a wonderful
7:42
experience. But you're so beguiling that
7:45
when we were watching them together, of course, I was at
7:48
the end of those episodes going, well, he's absolutely right.
7:50
Every word he said, he's absolutely.
7:52
This time I'll be able to formulate my opinions about your
7:55
charm in my ear, all right. And can.
8:00
What are your feelings? Unashamedly, Capaldi is my
8:04
favorite Nuhu Dr. I love every second of the man.
8:09
From the word go, I know that he's not the universally held
8:12
opinion. Series eight I thought was a
8:14
great return to form. It had highs and lows.
8:19
The highs eclipse the lows for me.
8:21
Overall, the series is it's a good solid 1.
8:26
Again, Mr. Ford, I don't think you're going to agree with me on
8:29
this. Or you you're it's Moffat.
8:31
You don't agree. We'll.
8:33
Get there, but we'll get there. But no, I am very, very positive
8:37
about this. I'm coming into it.
8:40
Just delighted to have been asked to comment on this one.
8:42
I've really enjoyed the rewatch this past week or so.
8:46
Fabulous. And I will summon up my courage,
8:49
Joe. Hello, hello.
8:52
I'm a little bit confused actually with my reaction this
8:55
time to watching Series 8, because it is a complete tonal
8:58
shift away from the sort of fairy tale and pantomime of the
9:01
Matt Smith era, which I really hated.
9:04
And it's bringing in that spiky and unlikable Dr. that I kind of
9:09
love. Like Ken.
9:10
Like Mark, a reformed Clara Oswald, who's basically a
9:14
different character from Deep Breath onwards.
9:16
I've I've written here. She's less boring than she was,
9:19
but much more of a cow. So it depends on sort of where
9:22
you want to fall with that. And stories that go to very dark
9:25
places but have really striking imagery and concepts.
9:30
I think there's a there's a lot of really interesting visuals
9:32
this season. It's.
9:34
Brave. I think it's probably ill
9:37
advised the direction they've gone into here and they
9:40
certainly do a course correction in series 9 and again in series
9:45
10 laughing even Moffett for oh, maybe we're a bit too far, but
9:49
this is just about my favorite season of that six year Moffett
9:54
period. And we've done what we've done.
9:56
We've done 7 and we've done 9, and I had, I came out in hives
10:00
when we were doing those two. And I haven't this time, even
10:04
though I've sort of got mixed opinions about the episodes
10:06
themselves. I think the second-half of 8 is
10:10
stronger than the first half of eight.
10:12
Yeah, it's it's weird. It's a weird, weird season.
10:16
It's a bit like a blind alley. It's how I describe the New
10:19
Adventures, usually a weird blind alley of maturity and
10:23
seriousness and very gum Doctor Who.
10:26
And it does take about two years to shake off this tone.
10:29
I don't know. I actually just wrote at the end
10:31
of my overview of the season. Was Moffett depressed when he
10:35
wrote this season? Because it's about as dark as
10:39
Doctor Who ever gets. And I don't think we should go
10:42
here again. But I'm kind of glad we went
10:44
here once. OK, so it sounds like there's a
10:48
reasonable amount of love in the room.
10:49
I love this run as well. Absolutely adore it.
10:52
I love Clara, I love Capaldi. Can I agree with you?
10:55
He's my favorite of the new new who Doctors by a country mile.
11:00
I, I just think this is really, well, I say it's a really strong
11:03
run of stories. There might be one one or
11:06
possibly 2 exceptions that, but we'll get there.
11:09
I just think these stories are so clever.
11:12
The more I started digging into into them and thinking about
11:14
them, I was making notes for these stories this episode.
11:18
I just think they're really bright, witty, clever,
11:22
thoughtful stories and I love them.
11:23
So yeah, I think it's going to be quite a positive episode.
11:26
Right, you say. I mean the lights all on for
11:29
most of these stories. It's not as bad as nine.
11:32
Come on, that's. True.
11:34
Far less filters than 9 as well. Those those blue and red and
11:40
awful filters they use in series 9 have not been discovered yet,
11:44
thank God. I think we we've just given can
11:46
of coronary there. Oh.
11:47
Don't worry, pretty much every argument I've got is dissing
11:49
another season of Mafia, so don't.
11:51
Oh. That's a that's a surprise
11:52
yourself. Folks.
11:53
All right. Yeah, but.
11:54
It doesn't matter whether it's Ferriti Lambert, Philip
11:56
Hinchcliffe, you will find a way to slam off Stephen Marvel.
11:59
Oh well, yeah, of course. Well, some people do it with
12:03
Jodie, others do it with RTD. I'll do it with Mafia You.
12:07
Don't. Who knew, right?
12:09
Let's get into our viewers comments to start with.
12:12
Ken, Mark, you're going to take us into these.
12:15
Feel free to criticize our listeners as you read these out.
12:19
They seem to perversely get off on that.
12:22
They love it, Please do. Feel free to use any accents you
12:25
like. Last time around we were treated
12:27
to David Gillespie's Pratt Amelia Ducat.
12:30
So yeah, please feel free to do whatever you like with hey.
12:33
Someone do a Capaldi please. Well, we're starting with Ken.
12:37
So there's the challenge for you, Ken.
12:41
I'll work up to Capaldi. First comment is from Joe Short.
12:45
Hooray. Capaldi is here and I can start
12:47
watching again. I know people think he's too
12:49
grumpy and cold, but I don't mind that at least didn't try to
12:53
strangle Clara. It's this Doctor Who really
12:55
brought me into fandom, so I can't help but love it all.
12:59
I've got a message here from Fraser Gregory.
13:02
I know probably to people in the South we sound like we've got
13:04
the same accent, but I'm going to do a jolly accent for for
13:07
Fraser because I know him. Capaldi is a real casting coup.
13:13
Such a shame the precious few writers this season can see
13:16
Pastor Malcolm Tucker. It's a strong series, but only
13:19
in hindsight when you can see where Capaldi is going with the
13:21
character. You're like a backing mark of
13:24
the if. I shot my eyes.
13:28
Fraser could have been on the call.
13:31
Michael Donahue says Series 8 reinvigorated my love for the
13:35
show. Capaldi is fantastic from the
13:37
start. Probably says more about me, but
13:40
the top layer if you want to say a word, makes me laugh every
13:44
time. Me too, I.
13:46
Love that line. Mark Duddick, I won't do that
13:48
because he's got like the nicest accent probably of anybody in
13:51
Doctor Who podcasting. Oh, it's like.
13:52
Honey, isn't it He's accent. Unfortunately, he's wrong here,
13:58
but he says this. This run really tested my love
14:01
of Doctor Who. I enjoyed Deep Breath
14:02
enormously. Something just clicked for me.
14:04
But with each subsequent week, I was enjoying things less and
14:07
less. I've come to like this run more
14:09
since, but at the time I nearly gave up.
14:12
That's. Where I was in Series 7, you
14:14
know, when I got to sort of journey to the centre of the
14:15
Sardis, you know, this was the season that sort of brought me
14:18
back in again. AJP says love this series, but
14:22
one problem with it. The Doctor is just so unlikable
14:26
and coming after the young, charismatic Tennanton Smith,
14:29
that's too much. He's 2000 years old.
14:36
Oh. Into the bin with you, no.
14:40
AJP, you are not going through to the next round, sorry.
14:44
But this stage, he's like 4000 years old, isn't he said 2000
14:47
years on trends alone. Oh.
14:48
And soon he'll be one 15 billion years old or.
14:51
Something. Oh dear.
14:54
Girls. Time goes quicker as you get
14:56
older, Steve. Sorry, Steve, Wolf all says.
15:01
I really didn't take it to Capaldi's doctor because of
15:03
these stories. They have interesting ideas, but
15:06
a rude, shouty, unpleasant Dr. spoils them.
15:09
A very poor opening run. Ouch.
15:14
Lee. Says I would.
15:15
Have been negative but on rewatch I enjoyed the take on
15:18
the Doctor. Am IA good man, questions him.
15:21
And does sacrificing all this for the greater good make him
15:24
good? Dan LA Really strong opening
15:27
run, very even in quality Series 8.
15:30
Best and worst episodes are in the back half so these are hard
15:33
to choose between. I mean in the forest of the
15:36
noise, not in the in the first half.
15:38
So we can't really agree with that comments.
15:44
Adrian Berry says enjoyed most of the episodes but was tiring
15:49
of Clara by this point. She was horrible to Danny Pink.
15:52
How? No, no, no, no, I don't know.
15:57
As as one of the straight men in the room.
16:02
Yeah, next comment. We.
16:04
Will get on to Danny Pink all right.
16:07
I beg your pardon? I mean, I'll Samuel Anderson,
16:10
what you would. That's the one thing you've got
16:12
going for him. Daniel Knight says Moffat
16:15
emulates JNT by making the Doctor as unlikable as possible,
16:18
despite the actors genuine warmth and charisma.
16:21
This would be OK if Clara was likable, but she isn't.
16:25
They also ditched a fairy tale style of 11 for something more
16:28
uncomfortable and less family friendly.
16:31
And how many cats were harmed during the making of that?
16:40
Yeah, fair play. It is possibly the worst
16:43
rendition of the theme. Thing is right is I don't
16:46
entirely disagree with him in that the Doctor's a total prick
16:49
in this season and Clara's a total POW.
16:51
Yeah, but I'd rather watch that than that pair last year goofing
16:56
around in hide and things like that.
16:58
I'd rather watch 2 assholes going around the universe.
17:01
It's much more fun. Paul Quinn Sad to see 2 old fans
17:06
at the heart of the show repeat mistakes of the past,
17:09
particularly Capaldi's characterization.
17:12
There's a difference between being spiky and mercurial and
17:15
being a space cond. There's too much of A Lasser
17:18
this year. Orquin.
17:21
Never doesn't say what he doesn't.
17:24
Hold back. No he doesn't.
17:25
Bless them, we love him for it. Oh, of course, Don.
17:29
Hollingsworth says one of the best actors to play Doctor Who,
17:32
but not one of the most likeable doctors, at least not in his
17:35
debut season. The I Don't Like Soldiers gets
17:38
very tiresome. We'll definitely get onto that.
17:42
Just I think it's not like everyone's forgotten about the
17:44
Brigadier this season, Kevin. Bianco says.
17:49
Is it wrong that during my recent rewatch I realized how
17:53
hot Jenna Coleman is? Nope.
17:56
Overall, the Doctor is a Moody ass.
17:58
Clara's a bit smug. Danny Pink's a bit wet.
18:02
However, I enjoyed the stories far more than on broadcast.
18:06
No, Clara is hot. And one of the things that I've
18:08
realized about Jenna Coleman is I only fancy her in Doctor Who,
18:14
which means logically, by extension, I fancy Clara Oswald
18:20
and not Jenna Coleman, if that makes sense.
18:23
You. Like total cow bags, do you?
18:27
I have been a little. Bit of a yeah, No, I've said too
18:30
much. Do you?
18:32
Know I didn't quite get it and then went off for the rewatch.
18:35
I put on robot Sherwood and she came out on that red dress and
18:39
honest to God, it was revelation.
18:41
I thought I was on the turn watching that episode.
18:44
She. Was absolutely stunning and then
18:46
she put on that suit in Time Heist time.
18:49
Heist, yeah, and I'm. Very androgynous.
18:51
And I was like, oh boy, I can't watch any more of this season.
18:54
We. Did we did have lots of horny
18:56
comments. I've had to edit some of them
18:57
out, but there were a couple of episodes, I think Robin Robots,
19:00
Sherwood was one of them, where nearly every one of our
19:03
heterosexual listeners said get Jenna Coleman in that dress.
19:09
I mean. Rod, given our sexualities, this
19:12
is usually a very gay podcast. So I'm very pleased that the
19:16
stakes, though we thought of the scales are two to two.
19:20
You know this is the straightest.
19:22
Strictly we've ever had, I know. I feel a bit dirty, right?
19:27
Let's get into the episodes themselves.
19:30
Let's start with Ken. Ken, pick your story of choice
19:35
from the six that you've got and give us your reasons why you're
19:38
either going to champion it or condemn it.
19:41
Boom straight in episode 1. Deep breath go.
19:45
For it. This is not universally loved by
19:49
any means, but I think it is probably the most cinematic
19:54
Doctor Who. Now bear in mind, I did actually
19:56
watch this at the cinema, but the whole feel of it, the way
20:00
it's lit, the way it shot, the way that it's been given a
20:04
little bit of extra runtime to breathe, I think even the
20:08
grading of the film is different in this episode.
20:12
The lighting, it's just, it just looks glorious now.
20:19
There's so many things to pick apart.
20:20
I did actually start making a list of pros and cons.
20:23
It introduces Missy and starts the whole never sphere arc.
20:28
See the pattern ostagang? Now the pattern Ostagang was a
20:30
really good idea, and you've got Doctor Who in Victoria, London,
20:36
for some reason it just works. I think it's the whole Sherlock
20:39
Holmes thing. But again, the feel of it, the
20:42
setting, the whole idea of the Paternoster Gang.
20:45
It's the same sort of Jago and Lightfoot thing, which is why
20:49
that's been picked up and run with and people love that.
20:53
You've got little bits in there. Again, Victorian London.
20:56
You've got a subtle change to the TARDIS interior that makes
21:01
it a little more almost Victorian study.
21:06
They've gone instead of the harsh neon blue, they've gone
21:08
for the soft amber which reflects the Doctor's slightly
21:16
less bright personality. Shall we say There's the first.
21:22
It's a subtle change from Matt Smith.
21:24
But we can't. You've.
21:27
Got the first appearance of Courtney Woods in there.
21:32
Now, I'm not a great fan of child characters.
21:35
I think by and large they're intensely irritating and pretty
21:40
much everything. Courtney Woods is one of those
21:43
rare flashes of a child character that actually works.
21:49
And she bounces off the Doctor. Not in this particular episode,
21:53
but again, if you look at that, her needling Clara in the
21:58
classroom, it's her entire way out of that deadly situation.
22:04
You've got little things like Brian Miller's in there now.
22:07
I don't know whether Brian Miller was legitimately cast or
22:10
whether it was a you're still part of the fold now that your
22:15
wife has died, but that was a nice little touch.
22:19
You've got the latex mask that the Doctor pulls off, which they
22:24
ripped the first one, and it's a cast of Matt Smith, so the 12th
22:29
Doctor's wearing the 11th Doctor's face.
22:31
It was completely accidental, but what a lovely little thing
22:35
to be in there. The final shot is on Queen St.,
22:41
which is the same place that they did the final shot at the
22:44
end of End of the World when they went off for chips in this
22:47
place and this time they went off to get coffee.
22:51
This just shows. You how mature we've got on now,
22:54
you know, with Ditch chips we're drinking coffee, now we're
22:56
drinking coffee. And we're in.
22:58
Glasgow now, apparently. Apparently I.
23:01
Thought it wasn't, but just the whole thing, it's a real
23:06
character development, the actual plot itself for the the
23:10
villain, the weapon of of choice in this episode.
23:14
There's not a hook to hang on, but it's it all looks nice.
23:19
The threat is nice. When they sat in the restaurant,
23:22
he's wearing that skaggy old coat and they just, they they
23:27
find that they can't walk out of the restaurant.
23:31
That's a really threatening idea.
23:34
So it's just peppered with these little beautiful moments, all
23:38
beautifully shot, and the sound and the music and everything
23:43
about this just hangs together. And I will come back to the idea
23:47
that it's slightly longer, there is room for every scene to
23:51
breathe, and that really it's all encapsulated in the title.
23:59
Fabulous. Great argument to open us,
24:02
right? Let's go to the comments, James
24:04
Lark says. Victorian London, A dinosaur,
24:07
The Patalosta gang, Creepy cyborgs.
24:11
So how is this so joyless? Perhaps because we direct it
24:16
like an art house project, moving at a snail's pace and
24:19
devoid of human warmth. As for the oh so edgy moral
24:22
ambiguity, has Clara been abandoned?
24:25
Did he jump or was he pushed? Do I care?
24:28
Don't think I haven't. I've just read through these
24:30
comments. You know, I've seen you've given
24:32
me all the positive ones to read out, Paul Quinn says really
24:36
good. Capaldi and Coleman are
24:38
brilliant, though the Doctor abandoning Clara smacks of a
24:41
repetition of mistakes from Colin Baker's run.
24:44
Capaldi's confrontation with the robot is tense and the shots of
24:47
London and the macabre balloon are wonderful, but the fight in
24:50
the cellar seems very cramped and awkward.
24:53
Tom Taylor says a real change of pace, slower and more considered
24:56
than the Matt Smith years, and Capaldi's a formidable but
24:59
powerful presence. Not sure that making him a Moody
25:01
bugger entirely makes sense, but he's good at it.
25:05
Big orange, Michael says. Saw it in the cinema with
25:08
friends and was delighted. When the Doctor announces to
25:11
Clara that he's not her boyfriend, I cheered.
25:14
A great start to the era. Cray, Doctor Who said probably
25:17
my worst modern regeneration story.
25:20
Just feels like a mixture of funny action and boredom.
25:22
But isn't that most of the modern era anyway, Jack?
25:25
Coyer says first step into getting back to Moffett's vision
25:28
by turning that companion who's been hanging around into a
25:32
proper character. But this is less about removing
25:35
what was there in the Smith era, more about revealing the
25:37
mechanisms that lie beneath the mask.
25:40
Here in The 12th Doctor, we see what the 11th Doctor has been
25:43
hiding for so long. David Leslie Pratt says ballsy
25:46
to make the Doctor distant, blunt and almost unlikeable.
25:49
Capaldi gives it the gravitas. A good opening story that I
25:53
could have done without the phone call.
25:54
Daniel Knight says too long, dull and derivative.
25:58
The Victorian era has been done to death and though I quite like
26:00
the Paternosters, I'd have preferred to have had a modern
26:03
day setting. Well Daniel, we do that quite a
26:05
lot. The scene with 11 doesn't work.
26:09
Aaron Lit Randall feels unique from what came before.
26:12
Wheatley's direction appeals to it's awkwardly televisual but
26:14
not quite filmic style. It's a failure for appealing to
26:18
the wider audience. But I'm quite fond of it,
26:20
despite the paternostic gang, and I love the music and.
26:23
He doesn't usually like the new series.
26:25
That's quite an endorsement there.
26:27
Jason Thompson. So it's a slight part plot?
26:29
No, not a slight plot. A slight plot.
26:32
But the point is to introduce the new Doctor and it does a
26:35
decent enough job. Dropping a hair to measure air
26:38
disturbance in a room with candles and Clara flapping a
26:41
newspaper about is absurd enough.
26:43
And the T Rex is way too big. I love him.
26:48
He's he's every time he finds those little technical deed.
26:51
Devotion to detail is just he's. Always on it, John Arnold says
26:56
the modern version of robot centrally introducing a new,
26:59
less comforting Dr. by placing him into the familiar
27:02
surroundings of the previous era.
27:03
As with Colin's era, I'm not convinced that making the Doctor
27:06
more abrasive from the start is the way to go.
27:09
Jim Alan Bee says very much enjoyed this on 1st viewing it
27:13
felt like Moffett's slowing the series down a little.
27:15
Shane The Patenosta gang vanished after this.
27:18
Looks gorgeous. Fraser Gregory said despite some
27:21
major flourishes, it sadly doesn't deliver the hour long
27:24
cinema spectacle that we wanted or Moffett thought he'd given
27:27
us. Not enough wrong with it to
27:29
consign it to the bin, but it just doesn't inspire rewatch, as
27:32
the kids would say. Champion of the damned indeed,
27:38
but Daniel Rawlsley says shame we never get a proper goodbye to
27:41
the Paternosters. Though it's very in character
27:43
for the 12th Doctor to just drop them like a bad habit.
27:46
More running time means more breathing room for character
27:49
work, but it does go out of its way to hold the viewers hand.
27:53
This is great. Strax whacking Clara in the face
27:55
with that newspaper still makes me laugh.
27:58
Me too. And me too, Luke Sims, Jenkins
28:01
says. A solid opener.
28:02
And it's Capaldi's first episode so he isn't always going to be
28:05
like this, right? Clara would probably get along
28:08
with this Doctor if he was better looking.
28:10
She sucks, No comment please. The dinosaur on the robot
28:14
baddies were cool do. You know we said this was like
28:17
season 22 right? You know how Perry had that
28:19
running gag of all these corridors look the same to me.
28:22
Imagine if the running gag in series 8 had been Clara gets
28:25
whacked in the face for something in every episode.
28:28
I think people would have liked her a lot more.
28:30
You. Know.
28:31
Not sure it would have fitted in listen but hey.
28:34
We would have found a way. Yeah, that's the helmet of the
28:36
spaceman, Michael. Oh, here we go.
28:39
My nemesis, Michael Storm. A bit of an oddity in that it
28:42
tries to take beats from the Christmas Invasion but fails to
28:45
gain any momentum as the threat is lacking.
28:48
So the episode is treading water for too long.
28:50
The Half Faced man is brilliantly realized and
28:52
performed. Dull but worthy and.
28:55
Finally, Doctor Sinister says Capaldi is a genius.
28:58
But this cured my insomnia three nights in a row.
29:01
Doctor Sinister. So the question mark has this
29:05
cured your insomnia or are you agreeing with Ken?
29:09
No. I agree with Ken.
29:10
I absolutely adore this story. I think probably after 11th hour
29:14
it's my favorite kind of putting a post regeneration story.
29:19
There's there's so much to love, as you say, but the the
29:22
restaurant scene is is fantastic, just brilliantly
29:26
acted. It's funny, it's great.
29:28
And the whole thing about the the everybody around them are
29:33
droids just kind of going through the motions.
29:35
It's that way that Stephen Moffat plays with the
29:37
conventions of TV. So I can silence in the library
29:40
when Donna is in the virtual reality and where we're used to
29:44
just scenes being cut from one location to another.
29:46
And we then learn that's that's actually how she's experiencing
29:49
a life. We've seen TV, you've got act
29:53
extras or supporting artists in the background of a scene and
29:55
we're just going through the motions like the famous Quantum
29:58
of Solace guys just pretending to to sweep the the street
30:02
behind James Bond and he's he's says brooms about a foot off the
30:07
ground. So just kind of working that
30:10
into the story. There's people just pretending
30:12
to eat around them and that's actually the kind of a clue and
30:15
part of it. I love that.
30:17
I think when we talked about this on on hamster joke whole
30:21
thing about spontaneous combustion.
30:22
It's such a Doctor Who idea. It's amazing.
30:24
That's never been brought up or used in a Doctor Who story
30:28
before. It really feels like something
30:29
that that would have been. There's the the thing about,
30:35
yeah, the thing about the Doctor leaving Clarin, Glasgow, which
30:39
if anyone's been to Glasgow City centre, there are police boxes
30:42
still dotted around. So my head cannon is she went
30:45
round and sort of tried a few doors 1st and they're all kind
30:48
of like vape shops and coffee shops now before she realized
30:51
the TARDIS had took off. And yeah, and as the as the
30:55
balloon takes off at the end, like a very macabre version of
31:00
Up the, it flies past Saint Paul's Cathedral, which is a
31:04
lovely little bit of foreshadowing for the season
31:07
finale as well. The halfway face man is trying
31:09
to get to the Promised Land and it's right there they go.
31:13
They go right past that. And yeah, I think it is a shame
31:16
it's the last appearance of the Paternostean because I really,
31:18
really love them. But I think it did fit a lot
31:20
better with Matt Smith's Doctor because he was younger and and
31:24
particularly Vastra was kind of a bit of a mentor figure for
31:27
him, I think, whereas Capald is a bit older and doesn't really
31:30
need that. So I think, I think you see why
31:32
it didn't really fit with the new incarnation of it.
31:34
Well. If you listen to Big Finish, you
31:36
know it's not the last appearance of the Paternoster
31:39
Gang. They went on and on and on.
31:43
There's nothing. Bookers was 12th Doctor Book
31:45
isn't there where he meets them as well as it's Sinister or
31:47
something like that. Do you?
31:48
Know they're remarkably engaging.
31:52
And we're not written by Stephen Moffett as well.
31:54
Those boxes are pretty good, you know.
31:58
Anyway, Joe, over to you. Yeah, your nay.
32:01
I'm really sorry, after all this positivity I'm a nay I'm afraid
32:06
on this one I do think. What a surprise.
32:09
I'm not a nay on all these episodes, but I am a nay on this
32:12
one. I do think this is too long, and
32:17
not in a positive way. First of all, I'd like to count
32:19
the recycle plot elements in this story.
32:21
OK, so we've got Dinosaurs, which we just had in Dinosaurs
32:25
on a Spaceship. A regeneration crisis, Take your
32:28
pick. The Paternoster Gang have been
32:31
in five previous stories. Robots needing body parts.
32:35
The girl in the Fireplace, The Victorian setting, which has
32:38
been in four of the last 10 stories, and even the Doctor
32:42
going up in a balloon at the end of the story is from the next
32:44
Doctor. So I don't think this feels like
32:47
a particularly original story. I'm not sure that Peter Capaldi
32:51
understands how to play the Doctor in the first half of this
32:55
episode. He sort of goes for this mad
32:58
eccentricity and sort of boggled eyed intensity.
33:01
It calms down a lot in the second-half of the episode, but
33:04
in the first half I just, I don't understand what he's
33:07
trying to do and I don't understand how that's supposed
33:10
to appeal to the kiddie winks watching the episode and the
33:14
whole scene with the tramp. What is going on in that scene?
33:18
Like I I heard them talking about it on FTE and they were
33:22
giving it sort of a very smart reading.
33:26
Can you guys explain to me what is happening in that scene?
33:29
I don't understand at all. All I can see is he's very
33:32
insulting to that poor homeless man and steals his coat.
33:36
It does steal his coat, so. What's it all about though?
33:38
What is that scene about? Well, it's playing or it's
33:42
planting the seeds for explaining the face.
33:46
It's writ large front and centre.
33:49
You've seen this face in Doctor Who before.
33:52
Why have you cast a secondary character as the Doctor?
33:59
It wasn't explained with Maxwell.
34:02
They've at least recognized this guy's been in Doctor Who before.
34:07
There's going to be a reason why now.
34:10
So I do like that, the whole being nasty to the tramp thing
34:14
and across as. A bit of a twat, I mean he does
34:17
quite a bit this season, but to. Be fair, he does, and in series
34:22
8 he's far harsher. He mellows immediately once we
34:27
get to series 9, but it's that stark contrast.
34:31
Now. Peter Capaldi has been a Doctor
34:33
Who's done a long time, so he knows the score here.
34:36
He knows that the Doctor can chop and change his personality.
34:41
See also Colin Baker. It is that first episode.
34:47
What the hell is this? Where's my Doctor?
34:49
And then there is right at the end, and I must admit I felt
34:53
this myself. Bear in mind, I've been watching
34:56
Doctor for 40 years at this point.
34:59
It's you get the phone call from Matt Smith.
35:02
This is still me. This guy who is completely
35:06
different from me, who is older than me.
35:08
He's not your archetypal young hero, swashbuckling.
35:12
This is still me. This is Doctor Who.
35:16
This is the character. And up to that point knew who
35:20
audiences had never seen that. They've not seen the Doctor as
35:24
an older man. They've not seen that craggy.
35:27
There's different aspects to it. He's not always this affable
35:31
Time Lord, this dashing young hero.
35:35
He has been all these different things in between.
35:37
He started out as the craggy old man.
35:40
But you say, yeah, I, I and I think that's what that scene is
35:43
all about. But I think the outcome of that
35:46
scene is most people were going, oh, God, I really miss Matt
35:50
Smith. Why am I?
35:52
I'm stuck with this idiot. I think that's that's what a lot
35:55
of the kids thought were thinking watching it.
35:57
I know Mark, I know who cares about the kids.
35:59
That's what I was thinking when I was watching it.
36:02
So, so I don't really like that scene at the end.
36:05
I don't think you should be reminding people of a very
36:07
popular doctor. That's just been whilst you're
36:09
trying to establish a really grumpy, Moody, unlikable Dr.
36:13
That is some really odd approach.
36:16
It's a very later point and I have to find myself agreeing
36:19
with it, although I think it it could be taken one of two ways.
36:25
I think at that point you really did split the audience.
36:29
For myself, I thought it was a nice sort of cushioning
36:33
reminder. You've seen this regeneration
36:35
thing two or three times before now.
36:38
By this point, you know that the Doctor changes and he changes
36:41
his personality. It's never been this big a
36:44
change in the period that you kiddies have been watching it
36:49
and so it's a a softening in. But I do take your point in
36:52
joke. Yes, does that.
36:52
Mean Moffett doesn't trust the audience I.
36:56
Don't think he. Doesn't trust.
36:58
Because. Because or he doesn't trust the
37:01
characterisation that he's given the Doctor in this story.
37:04
To win the audience over, though, he's got to pull out
37:06
that cheap trick at the end. He's just giving the audience a
37:09
bit of assurance. I that's.
37:12
Entirely my view rod, yes, but it's the same.
37:14
Thing as putting the pattern of the gang isn't it it's that
37:16
little bit of reassurance I really like that scene because
37:19
it's just it's never been done before and it's it's cool to see
37:22
the previous doctor pop up like that I I love multi doctor
37:25
stories and that's the thing I liked about the by regeneration
37:29
recently was getting 2 doctors you know on on screen together.
37:32
That kind of Trump's everything for me.
37:33
I love doctors meeting each other and even a kind of, yeah,
37:37
quite tangential one like that was, yeah, I got a kick out of
37:40
it. I just think in an episode that
37:41
already feels quite awkward about the transitions it's
37:44
making, sort of makes a statement at the end of like,
37:47
OK, we've really got to hold their hands into this.
37:50
I think. It's, it's also it's not an all
37:52
regeneration, is it because the Doctor has just spent 2000 years
37:56
on trends a lot. And I think that feeds into.
37:58
You have to. Remind me of that.
37:59
That feeds into the, the, the dislike of soldiers as well,
38:03
because he's been fighting soldiers of like every race for,
38:06
for, for 2000 years. You know, I think people act
38:08
like that just comes out of nowhere, you know, because he's
38:12
that. Isn't really mentioned though,
38:13
is it that that's why he doesn't like soldiers now Is that my?
38:17
Opinion story. Yeah, but that was last year.
38:20
Who cares about that? That was mentioned this season,
38:23
Joe. What?
38:23
I've just spent 2000 years fighting a lot of soldiers.
38:26
I'm a bit uncomfortable around these people.
38:28
Instead, it just looks like he's being a prick to soldiers.
38:32
Bear in mind, I think that's where he does.
38:33
Trust the audience. Isn't it then that he trusts
38:35
them to have paid attention to the fact this character has just
38:38
gone through this huge life changing thing?
38:40
But. Also as well, like I don't know
38:42
who said it about Colin Baker's Doctor, I think there are a lot
38:45
of parallels with how Colin plays the Doctor in The Twin
38:47
Dilemma and how Peter Capaldi plays the Doctor in the first
38:51
half of Deep Breath. Sort of violent eruptions of
38:55
emotion. A lot of moments where you're
38:57
going, fuck, is this guy completely unhinged and lost his
39:00
mind. And in in a similar way, it's
39:04
it's similarly uncomfortable for me.
39:06
I'm I'm pleased he settles down as quickly as he does.
39:09
And by the end, fuck me, he's cool sitting there, you know,
39:13
throwing people out of balloons and things and being very
39:15
threatening and dark and Moody and come into the Dalek.
39:19
Fuck me, he's arrived. But that first half an hour of
39:22
deep breath very, very odd. Anyway, sorry, I've got more
39:26
points. The pattern of the gang.
39:29
I don't really understand why they I think this is another
39:32
hand holding exercise of like, let's ease.
39:35
It's the robot thing again, isn't it?
39:36
Let's have unit in the post regeneration story.
39:40
I'm sure they've been set up enough to be that comfort at
39:45
this point. And in a season which I think is
39:48
going for a more like it's aiming for more adult, it's
39:52
aiming for like teenagers rather than kids.
39:55
Now, especially given the subject matter, a lot of these
39:58
stories to have this opening story which is basically LED for
40:02
the most part by a Saluri and a cockney maid and a fat Sontaran
40:05
doing comedy shtick all the time.
40:07
I don't think that's perhaps as adult as it could be.
40:10
So I think there's like weird comedy in this and it's very
40:13
serious. And tonally, it's a bit all over
40:16
the place. And on this watch, I really
40:20
disagree about the direction. Sorry, Ken.
40:22
I think this feels very artificial.
40:25
The lighting on the location work makes it look like sets
40:29
most of the time. It's really odd.
40:32
And I don't think his camera work feels particularly stylish.
40:36
I thought we thought we were going to get something really
40:39
cinematic. And actually I think this feels
40:42
more like Doctor Who for television than ever before,
40:46
which is weird because I think coming to the Dalek, that really
40:49
does feel like cinema at times. And it's the same bloody
40:52
director. So I don't know what happened
40:54
between the two. Who knows?
40:56
Anyway, more than that later. And my last complaint is the
40:58
dinosaur. I really don't like the
41:00
dinosaur. I like the special effect.
41:02
I think it's really good. But I think it's basically there
41:06
to turn a 40 minute story into an 80 minute story because the
41:11
second that dinosaur's not needed anymore, it's just kills,
41:14
which feels a bit cruel to the dinosaur.
41:17
And you know, I just really hate these.
41:19
Oh, let's just do this random crazy event that nobody in
41:23
history ever remembers. And I think people might have
41:26
written down there was a fucking Tyrannosaurus Rex wandering
41:29
around Victoria and London at some point.
41:33
I. Forgot the scarison, it's.
41:35
There just to spit out the TARDIS in a very cool moment at
41:38
the beginning. And then he's sort of Lombard
41:40
with it and tries to give it a sort of a tragic ending and the
41:43
Doctor's reaction to it and all of that.
41:45
But I don't know. Yeah, this is too long, too
41:50
talky, I don't think. I don't think it uses the time
41:55
particularly well. There's some good character
41:57
moments in it. I think Clara's reformatted in a
41:59
really interesting way, a less likeable way, but a more
42:03
interesting way. But yeah, I think it was all
42:06
over the place. I was very confused watching
42:09
this the first time. I was very confused watching it
42:11
this time. So it's a no for me.
42:13
So it's one apiece. So I've got the vote, Joe.
42:17
I know you love it. I love.
42:19
This, so this is going through. I think this perfectly takes its
42:24
extended running time. It establishes a new tone, a new
42:27
atmosphere, new style for the show.
42:29
I will agree with you Joe, I don't think Ben Wheatley's
42:32
direction does it much favours. I think his direction of the
42:35
action sequences, particularly when we're down in the cellar,
42:38
is really quite off bit. Confusing.
42:42
It's. Confusing it hasn't really got
42:44
much pace and energy. So fortunately the rest of the
42:46
story is at a slower pace and and fits his style more because
42:50
I don't think, although as you say, he's quite different and
42:52
into the Dalek. But in this story, any time
42:55
there's a little bit of action, I think he kind of fluffs it.
42:58
But that aside, I love this story.
43:00
So my first reason for voting this through.
43:02
I think this is quite kind of a new way of doing the
43:05
regeneration story. So usually in the past we've
43:08
either started with a whole brand new team like, you know,
43:11
11th hour woman who felt to earth spearhead apart from the
43:15
brick, but you know, he's very tangential, or we carry lots of
43:18
big elements over from the previous era, like and the first
43:22
story is a bit of a throwback. So like Robot and Simon the
43:24
Rani, I think this does something really clever and
43:28
really different. Over the course of 76 minutes,
43:31
we kind of morph from the tone of a Matt Smith episode at the
43:34
beginning to absolutely being a Peter Capaldi episode by the
43:38
end. May.
43:39
Think of the beginning. That's why it feels confused,
43:41
yeah. But that really works now.
43:43
I think it's a really clever way of doing it.
43:44
So like you were saying with the Patinos at the beginning, it's
43:47
quite light and comedic and the doctor's even uttering lines
43:50
that you can imagine. Matt Smith coming out with all
43:52
that business about who invented this room at the beginning, you
43:55
can imagine giving all those lines and even the music at the
43:58
start is lifted from Matt Smith. So it's got a Matt Smith feel to
44:02
it. And I think that again is part
44:04
of the easiness in Gently because then by the time we get
44:07
to the scene that you just talked about, Joe in the alley
44:09
with the beggar, that is then very much we are in a different
44:13
tone and different style at that point and we're starting to
44:16
morph into a Capaldi. And what I think that scene does
44:19
really well, it shows what you were talking about.
44:23
It begins with Capaldi's very manic craziness.
44:27
But the minute that newspaper comes out and he sees the story
44:30
about the spontaneous combustion, he's suddenly the
44:33
light, the light bulb flashes moment and he suddenly becomes
44:36
the Doctor at that point and he's interested and he's into
44:39
the story. And from there on inwards, he's
44:41
finding his fate. So I think that scene is that
44:43
kind of transition from mad crazy regeneration crisis to,
44:48
I'm now starting to know, very. Quick swift shifter out well.
44:52
But it works for me. So I really, I really like that.
44:55
I think it's really clever the way they lead us through.
44:58
And you know, it's not, we also see that through Clara's eyes as
45:02
well. So Clara's a bit I guess like
45:04
Ben and Polly and power of the dialect.
45:06
So, you know, she's initially suspicious of the new
45:08
incarnation. She needs convincing.
45:10
And, and I think that parallel is relevant because obviously in
45:13
1966 it was the first time the audience was seeing the
45:16
regeneration. And Ken, as you just rightly
45:18
said, for modern audiences, this is the first, the first time
45:21
most of the modern audiences are seeing an older Doctor.
45:24
They're used to the young dashing Dr. So I think it is
45:27
important that Clara remains suspicious and we get that build
45:31
up and we get that time to get acclimatized room.
45:33
I think that works really well. And yeah, he has to actually
45:37
prove himself twice to her, once when he comes to a rescue in the
45:40
cellar, and secondly when he returns for it at the end.
45:43
And even then, she's still unsure of him.
45:46
She doesn't know who he is. So that phone call works to give
45:49
her that final piece of reassurance.
45:51
Something's really clever. To take sure about him come dark
45:54
water like well. It takes the.
45:57
Season, I think she comes. She comes and goes, doesn't it?
46:00
Takes her till last Christmas when they finally go off running
46:03
to the TARDIS together for her to be totally on board.
46:06
Yeah, I think, yeah, it's EBS and flows over the series,
46:09
doesn't it? I think there's times in the
46:11
series where they're absolutely dynamite together.
46:13
Very. Flows Rod.
46:15
Get in your bloody TARDIS and piss off, she says.
46:17
And kill the moon. Yeah, but in listen, they're
46:20
absolutely a dynamic duo. So.
46:22
But we'll get that. We'll get that.
46:24
You have. Raised some.
46:25
Oh, sorry Rod, I think no go. On go on, go on.
46:27
No, I was. Going to say some really good
46:29
points have been raised this discussion.
46:31
I mean, first and foremost, this is the first regeneration of a
46:34
new cycle. So he's essentially the First
46:38
Doctor again. He's grumpy, he's old.
46:41
There you go. But you've got all the things
46:46
just sort of filtering through there that I just love the whole
46:50
fact that this guy. The.
46:53
First scene for me where he was pow, he's the Doctor.
46:56
He's he's finished the the crisis is over.
46:58
He is now. The doctor was in that dining
47:02
room right at the end. The balloon's going up.
47:05
He's there with a glass of whiskey, which I just thought
47:08
was a great move. I think the doctor with a glass
47:10
of alcohol periodically. I think it if it's done as a
47:15
dramatic moment, I think it works.
47:18
It's like the Third Doctor sitting by the fire with a
47:20
Brandy and last of the gathering it just the.
47:23
Last time that we'd make a comparison between Capaldi and
47:26
Perwe. Is it in the Rumph?
47:29
There's a definite correlation. But the other thing which hasn't
47:34
cropped up yet, Joe, you touched on it.
47:37
Did he jump or was he pushed? Now, I personally think it is
47:41
razor thin, so ambiguous, I honestly can't call it.
47:48
I like to think that the doctor talked him into jumping, but
47:52
yeah, can't be sure. I mean, you know, again, with
47:56
the comparisons of Season 22, I mean, he was murdering his way
48:00
through that season, so it's not so controversial.
48:02
I think he shoved him out and Oh well.
48:06
He's having a little lie down. There's something quite James
48:09
Bond about that scene. I think when he has a glass of
48:12
whiskey and he says I'm having a drink because I think I might
48:14
have to kill you. That's yeah, something.
48:16
Quite cool, Mark. And that's saying it's so cool.
48:20
That was the best part on. Our website and that that piece
48:22
of direction when he holds up the the tray to say you know you
48:26
the sort of chip of Theseus argument isn't it to say you
48:29
know is there anything left but you can then see the doctor's
48:31
face and he's like you say it's the first three generation of a
48:34
new cycle. It's kind of untested ground and
48:37
he's asking himself the same question, isn't he?
48:39
Is there anything the original left which ties into the whole,
48:42
you know, he's a good man and, and what's his purpose and
48:44
everything like that? I think it's so we.
48:46
Mentioned in the episode, it's the first regeneration of a new
48:48
cycle. I mean, I know we know that
48:50
because we're fans and we've just watched Time with the
48:52
Doctor. Or is that a reading we're
48:53
putting into it? It doesn't crop up in this
48:56
episode, but obviously it's a heavy.
48:57
It sounds a. Lot goes uncertain in.
49:00
This episode, yeah. I can't remember.
49:01
There's an episode where he says something about this incarnation
49:05
being an administrative error, but I can't remember if it's in
49:07
this series or not. I can't.
49:08
Yeah, I remember. No, it's not in this list, but
49:12
yeah, I'm putting it through. And the final thing I want to
49:14
say is, is there a more poetic way to parallel the Doctor's
49:18
change than having his first enemy as someone with two faces?
49:23
Really. Yeah.
49:24
So again, I think Moffett puts a lot more thought into these
49:27
stories, and sometimes we give him credit for.
49:30
There's lots of parallels, lots of mirroring.
49:32
But, yeah, I love this. And.
49:34
Oh, I did also want to mention Ken.
49:35
I think you mentioned her Missy. You can't not mention Missy, can
49:38
you? I mean, right from the start,
49:40
she's Batty. She's camp.
49:42
She's totally engaging. I must admit, that first
49:45
evening, I did guess who she was.
49:48
And I don't think that really matters.
49:49
I did guess it was the Master, but she's bloody fantastic.
49:54
So yeah, I'm always happy to see Michelle Gomez.
49:58
Brilliant. So Deep Breath is going through.
50:00
Mark, pick your first story. OK, well.
50:05
I'll go chronologically. I I love into the Dalek as as
50:09
Joe might remember from when I was in hamster.
50:12
I think it's it's it's one of my favorite Dalek stories of the
50:15
new series. I think it it looks fantastic.
50:18
It's a brilliant idea way of doing a different Charlick
50:21
story. As a kid, I lived in a space as
50:24
one of those films I just would watch over and over again.
50:27
So it had kind of kind of nice connotations for me of of in a
50:31
space. I think it is more cinematic.
50:35
I think you're right. The way it's shot does does.
50:37
I don't know much about Ben Wheatley, but I'm guessing he's
50:40
a big Star Wars fan because. I.
50:43
Love the way it's shot. When, when?
50:46
When? The ship's being run down by the
50:48
Dalek Sorcerer at the start. That's like the Millennium
50:51
Falcon being chased by a Star Destroyer, isn't it?
50:54
We've just gone. The whole hog mark and just had
50:55
the opening crawl and then go into that spaceship.
50:58
Zooming. Across.
51:00
The temptation must have been there the the protein chamber.
51:04
It's like the Death Star garbage compactor hiding a spaceship, an
51:09
asteroid field, the kind of the troops waiting to be boarded,
51:13
all that stuff. It all feels like particularly
51:15
the the original Star Wars film it, it really feels like there's
51:17
a lot of homage and and astige there.
51:21
There's a lot of kind of symbolism.
51:23
I think with eyes, the you know, the kind of eyes, the window to
51:26
the soul thing. So you know, the Dalek's eye
51:29
stalk is the doorway for everyone to get into the
51:32
dialect. The the antibodies inside the
51:35
dialect look like eyes, clouds, blouse as a pattern that looks
51:38
like eyes over it. And then at the end, the Doctor
51:41
makes his kind of big impassioned speech to the the
51:44
kind of giant to him, eye of the of the Dalek mutant and
51:47
everything. So it's all like kind of, you
51:49
know, swords laid there then. And yeah, this is the Doctor in
51:53
this one as well. I know, you know, we're talking
51:56
about the Doctor being a bit more kind of aloof and
51:58
unpleasant and stuff just cause of it.
51:59
And the side. I always found the 9th Doctor
52:01
much more unpleasant than the 12th Doctor.
52:03
It doesn't really get talked about as much, but the way he
52:06
treated Mickey, I hated that bit.
52:09
When is it aliens of London? When they the kids graffiti the
52:13
TARDIS and he says to look OK, do that again and I love you.
52:19
And just like, that's not really the way the Doctor should speak
52:23
to kids, you know what I mean? Like I just hated that as soon
52:25
as I see I was found. Big Finish are looking for
52:28
Christopher extra replacement. You know I should give them your
52:31
number. So yeah, the 9th October I was
52:35
far more abrasive anyway, But yeah, the the scenes in this
52:38
with the wake up party plays it. And I think it was in the
52:40
comments before about the, you know, the top layer.
52:42
If you'd like to say a few words for me that calls back sort of
52:46
pyramids of Mars where he says something about it's, it's one
52:51
of the scarman's death, isn't it?
52:52
And he says, Sarah says to him, sometimes you don't quite see
52:57
him and he goes human and all that kind of stuff are in
53:01
horrifying rock when he's kind of says, you know, we'll all be
53:04
dead by dawn and all that kind of stuff.
53:06
I love that kind of season. 22 again, you're just desserts.
53:11
Forgive me if I won't join you. It's all of those acid bars of
53:14
the people who've been killed. It's not the doctors shoving
53:18
people into acid baths. It's just sort of, you know,
53:20
kind of taking a bit of a kind of a gothic Glee in there in in
53:23
the you think that. It should be a bit above that
53:25
sort of thing, but it's exactly what I'll be doing on these
53:28
adventures if one of you got murdered.
53:30
I'll be. Making a joke straight away
53:31
we're. Looking forward to that episode.
53:36
That the ruthless pregnant pregnantism when the soldier is,
53:40
he knows he's going to die anyway.
53:41
He's he's sort of, you know, kind of trying, trying to find
53:44
out what he can and everything, which, you know, kind of crops
53:46
up again a bit in the moment, the Orient Express later in the
53:50
series. So yeah, I just, yeah, I love
53:54
all that. And yeah, we get a little Missy
53:56
scene as well in it, which it's just the icing on the cake.
54:00
Fabulous. Let us go to the comments.
54:04
George is lost said an absolute favorite.
54:06
Fantastic dialect action with gorgeous visuals.
54:09
Seriously, it's one of the best looking episodes.
54:11
Super creative concepts, even if they are editions or expansions
54:15
to well worn ones. Great set pieces and a pace that
54:18
never lets up. Plus some super compelling
54:20
character moments for both 12 and Rusty.
54:24
Paul Cressler says, and immediately the new dynamic
54:27
annoyed me. The Doctor arrives and the
54:30
seasoned adventure then pops off again to see if his companion
54:32
can be asked to come and join him.
54:34
That really grated me. Travelling with the Doctor
54:36
should be the biggest thing in your life, not something you do
54:39
if you've got nothing better going on.
54:41
Big Orange, Michael said some eminently quotable moments in A
54:44
Journey Inside a Dalek adds up to an episode I love more than
54:47
others. Capaldi reminds me of early John
54:49
Perry here, although Capaldi doesn't dislike the Daleks.
54:53
Keep it. Daniel Roles, he says improved
54:55
on rewatch, gets the Daleks out of the way early.
54:58
Some meat, some meaty Dr. Dalek dichotomies, and Hooray the
55:03
Moffett Daleks kill people. Yes are the best thing about the
55:07
episode. Finally, also contains my all
55:10
time favorite Capaldi Lion. Oh, that's right, keep your
55:13
spirits up about Clara still looking like a young woman.
55:17
Darren Lit, Randall said briefly.
55:18
Made me excited about Daleks again.
55:20
Daleks to give Nick Briggs a chance to do yet another unique
55:24
Dalek voice. Got tired quickly but I like the
55:27
feel of this due to Wheatley, the design and the music.
55:30
But Clara slapping the Doctor? A big no.
55:33
David Gillespie, Pratt says into the messy rest of the season.
55:37
Some interesting ideas, but the tone is all over the place, and
55:40
the doctor's dislikes actually make that hatred of soldiers
55:43
feels wrong. It might have been planned as
55:45
character development, but it's a no from me.
55:48
Jason Thompson said I'd rather like it doing something new with
55:50
Daleks. Danny Pink seems decent enough
55:53
here, even if the opening scenes are basically telling us all the
55:55
essentials former soldier who killed someone he shouldn't
55:58
rather than letting them come along as the series progresses.
56:02
Tom Turlo says good. Personally I love the top layer
56:05
if you want to say a few words. Moment made me laugh out loud
56:08
but I'm in a dark, acerbic, sarcastic bugger.
56:12
You. Well, you said it, Tom Fraser,
56:14
Gregory said. Where my wife stopped watching
56:16
due to Capaldi's callousness. For that alone, it's in the bin.
56:19
She cares so I don't have to. Is probably the worst thing
56:22
Moffat has ever made the Doctor say.
56:25
The Doctor can be all things to all people and as much as the
56:28
Dick as you like, but the one thing he should always do is
56:31
care. I've.
56:32
Never heard Fraser Gregory be so down on this era.
56:34
What's coming on? Jack Coyer says Phil Ford is
56:37
back from Waters of Mars. But the difference is here that
56:40
we have the Time Lord Vicious, not victorious.
56:43
I think we're supposed to laugh with the he's in the pile over
56:45
their comments. She cares so I don't have to.
56:47
It's actually a great line, well suited to the early stages of
56:50
this Doctor, and it's a signal where we'll head in this era.
56:54
Now New Knights has a great opening but screeches to a halt
56:57
with all the interminable Am IA Goodman navel gazing.
57:00
The rest is expertly directed by Wheatley, with Daleks looking
57:03
medicine and actually managing to exterminate people for a
57:06
change. Unfortunately, Moffett's
57:08
slapping fetish raised its ugly head again, and sadly not for
57:12
the last time this season. Moffett, Russell T Davis had the
57:15
Doctor being slapped all the time by people.
57:18
I'm I'm the last person to do this, but come on, it's a trope
57:23
now. Oh, there's virtue signaling.
57:26
Oh hey, what's going on? Jim Allenby says the first story
57:30
where I had to question whether I agreed with the direction of
57:33
the character was going. I wasn't impressed with this
57:35
one, but it had some nice moments.
57:37
I never felt Moffett did anything particularly
57:38
interesting with the Daleks though.
57:40
Lukes and Jenkins says the Doctor not liking soldiers has
57:43
got to go. Feels a bit of a retread of
57:45
Dalek. The concept of shrinking down
57:47
and going into the Dalek is cool though.
57:50
And finally, Joe Llewellyn says. Sigh.
57:53
The introduction of Sergeant Cliche himself, Danny Pink.
57:57
I had a bad feeling about this, and I was right.
57:59
Some egregious lines that had me rolling my eyes.
58:03
Oh, very mixed those comments. Hen are you rolling your eyes or
58:06
you're loving the dialects, Ben? Oh.
58:11
Yeah, I. I've had to be quite cruel about
58:14
this because otherwise I'm having listened to previous
58:18
strictlys. I.
58:19
Just think, yeah, there's something positive to say about
58:23
every single story in the whole Canon of Doctor Who, but we're
58:26
supposed to be reviewing these things.
58:28
Yay or nay? I'm going to put this one in the
58:30
bin. It's one of two from the 1st
58:32
6:00 I could happily do without. Partly because what the hell is
58:36
the premise of this thing? Why have these soldiers the
58:40
Doctor saves the only blue part? That's thank you.
58:46
Journey. Journey.
58:47
That's it. Yes, in quite a good.
58:50
I like that opening scene where she wakes up on the floor of the
58:53
TARDIS. He's holding the coffees and
58:56
he's quite. Yeah.
58:57
You survive, love. You know your brother didn't.
59:00
It's sad, but you survive. Let's look at the positives.
59:03
I like that it's the new Doctor. It's his new way of doing the
59:07
same thing with a different attitude.
59:09
I loved all that lands on the spaceship.
59:12
I've saved your niece. Yep.
59:14
But we're going to kill you anyway because you might be a
59:16
spy. Oh, by the way, we've got a
59:17
Dalek that we want to fix. What the hell?
59:20
It doesn't make any sense. Economy of storytelling, it's
59:25
all just there waiting for him. And he says he's a doctor.
59:28
So there we go. Sorry, Joe, that sounded like
59:30
you were defending Moffett there for a second.
59:32
Don't. Don't.
59:34
Criticize. Have we got this on?
59:36
It's so. Unique.
59:38
When they when they leave, getting to the, I'm sorry, go on
59:43
when they leave the TARDIS in that scene and she says, oh,
59:47
it's smaller on the outside. And he says, oh, it's much more
59:49
impressed to the other way around.
59:50
I think. I love that.
59:51
That's a great line. There.
59:54
Are I agree with a lot of what you've said actually, Mark,
59:56
because there are little fragments of brilliance peppered
59:59
through this thing. But overall the the premise of
1:00:03
it, it falls apart very quickly. Why?
1:00:07
Is the Dalek suffering from radiation?
1:00:11
That's the very thing that makes a Dalek a Dalek, and I think
1:00:14
there's some throwaway line about the type of radiation, but
1:00:18
it doesn't make any sense. Why does that soldier at the end
1:00:24
again, whose name I can't remember?
1:00:26
Random generic soldier. They're at the the very end of
1:00:33
the mission. They've won.
1:00:34
They've worked everything out, they know what they're doing.
1:00:36
And she's like, Remember Me? Do something brilliant in my
1:00:39
name, Pew Pew knowing. There's no reason for her to
1:00:42
fire that effing blinding gun, but she does.
1:00:46
There's no reason for it at all. She's the reason.
1:00:50
There we get the Pew Pew sound effect.
1:00:52
That's very cool there. Is a reason she's got to fire
1:00:55
the harpoon so they can get up the Dalek.
1:00:57
But she knows by doing that it's going to injure the Dalek, which
1:01:00
will bring the antibodies. So she knows someone's got to be
1:01:02
killed, so she stays there to defend her.
1:01:05
How dare you sigh? I just there are flashes of
1:01:12
brilliance, there are little peppered moments of dialogue
1:01:15
that I absolutely adore as there are throughout the whole, well,
1:01:19
the whole of both Moffat and IT D's first eras.
1:01:23
I just think this one falls far too flat in terms of the premise
1:01:28
of it and the set up why it couldn't have been a science
1:01:33
ship rather than an army ship. That would have made far more
1:01:37
sense. We've captured a Dalek.
1:01:39
We want to know how this thing works.
1:01:41
It's damaged, it's malfunctioning.
1:01:44
Why is we need to find out? We want to know instead of a
1:01:48
load of bloody soldiers running around with we kill everyone
1:01:51
that might be dangerous, but we've kept a Dalek.
1:01:54
It makes no sense and because of I don't like any story, he says
1:02:00
he's a Doctor Who fan, but I don't like any story that skips
1:02:03
over logic and. 61 years in the Ben the words.
1:02:11
Trip off the end of my tongue. But this is one where it's
1:02:16
really quite bad for it. And for that reason alone, it's
1:02:21
a flimsy no. But it is a no from me.
1:02:25
OK, I'll go next on this one show so you can have the
1:02:27
decider. I am absolutely putting this one
1:02:30
through. I think there's so much good
1:02:32
stuff in this just off the top, man.
1:02:33
Things like the little exchange when Gretchen Gretchen and Amos
1:02:37
Ken is about self sacrifice herself for a very good logical
1:02:40
reason. May I add her?
1:02:42
Name was Gretchen. Gretchen doesn't sound.
1:02:45
Like a very space name. Does it well.
1:02:47
It's not a Chibdel space name, No thank Christ.
1:02:49
No, it's a. Normally fabulous like
1:02:51
Koshalmas, wouldn't it? Are we allowed to slag?
1:02:55
Oh God. Yes, please do.
1:02:57
Brace, brace. So when Gretchen's about self
1:03:01
sacrifice, she says tell me the truth, is he mad or is he right?
1:03:05
And Clara says, and on my heart most days he's both.
1:03:08
I think it's a lovely exchange because you expect to say he's
1:03:11
right. I also love the parallel between
1:03:13
and there's lots of parallels this season.
1:03:15
I've been mentioning that word lots of times.
1:03:17
There's a lovely parallel between the Doctor transmatting
1:03:20
Journey to a place of safety at the beginning and offering her
1:03:23
coffee, and Missy transmatting the dead Gretchen away at the
1:03:26
end for her to join her army of the dead and offering her a cup
1:03:30
of tea. So we're getting the parallels
1:03:32
between the two different Time Lords, which again, I think it's
1:03:34
really, really clever. But my three reasons for putting
1:03:37
it through the first one, am IA good man.
1:03:39
I love the whole thing of am IA good man.
1:03:42
And I think it's it's clever that we're doing this bit of
1:03:44
introspection. This is an incarnation that
1:03:47
relations have existed. You guys are all using very
1:03:49
gentle language for a bit of introspection.
1:03:53
This whole season is overloaded with introspection.
1:03:58
We get there in the end, it pays off at the end.
1:04:00
There's a through line, there's a journey, absolutely.
1:04:03
Are you sure? About that.
1:04:04
Absolutely, when you realise it's I'm just a madman in a box,
1:04:07
so absolutely it pays off. They're still not talking to
1:04:11
each other though, are they? At the end of the season,
1:04:13
they're still not friends. They're still not.
1:04:15
Doing that directions we do install it.
1:04:17
OK, let's go back to into the Darling.
1:04:20
I I think it works. This is an Incarnate.
1:04:23
We talked about it earlier. This is an incarnation that
1:04:25
shouldn't have existed. So I think it's perfectly kind
1:04:27
of justified that he's questioning his place in the
1:04:30
universe by saying, am I a good man?
1:04:32
And he is a Doctor Who's a lot more harsh.
1:04:34
He's a lot more stern. He's a lot more critical.
1:04:37
And, you know, a lot of our listeners were saying this is
1:04:38
Malcolm Tucker. But the fact that we've got the
1:04:41
doctor with this sense of reflection and introspection, I
1:04:44
think counts as that argument because he is prepared to take
1:04:47
stock. He's prepared to be quiet.
1:04:48
And still. That scene with Fara where they
1:04:50
sit down to talk, he's quiet. That diminishes the criticism of
1:04:54
saying, oh, he's just Malcolm Zucker.
1:04:55
And actually also increases I think our empathy towards him
1:04:59
because he's thinking about himself and yeah in question
1:05:03
whether he's a good man. Joe, just think about the last
1:05:04
couple of strictly's we've done. We've talked about the Doctor's
1:05:07
Gray morality so many times, whether it was heart or
1:05:10
abandoning and chaplet in the massacre or leaving Vicky to
1:05:14
find her own way back when leaving in Troy or David Tennant
1:05:18
sensing the family of blood. You know we've talked a lot of
1:05:21
times about the Doctor's Gray morality.
1:05:23
So, you know, why shouldn't the Doctor take stock at this point?
1:05:26
We. Didn't like Jodi turning Sasha
1:05:30
Dewan's colour on in Spy Fall though, did we?
1:05:33
There's always an exception, isn't there?
1:05:36
I did like that. I loved it because it was head
1:05:40
on. It was something absolutely
1:05:42
deadhead. It was one of the few things
1:05:45
that I thought was done well in the Chibnal era.
1:05:49
I was like, what a cow. I love it.
1:05:52
Yes. What's the worst way out of this
1:05:55
situation? Bang, there it is.
1:05:57
And Rod, you're bringing up so many good things there.
1:06:02
I'm almost changing my mind here, but.
1:06:04
Don't tell him he's bringing up good things.
1:06:07
But he has just spent 2000 years on friends of law saving this
1:06:12
thing. The the futility of 2000 years.
1:06:15
It's nothing compared with Heaven Sent that's coming up,
1:06:19
but the futility of all that and then it's all wiped out by these
1:06:23
bloody Daleks again and the can you can he blame the guy for
1:06:27
waking up a bit Cross? It's not.
1:06:30
Futile, though he saved generations and generations of
1:06:33
of people in that in the town of Christmas, it's.
1:06:37
Funny how he never mentioned it again though, given he spent
1:06:40
2000 years there. And yeah, he mentioned.
1:06:43
Talking about, he mentioned all the.
1:06:44
Events that happened over like a week all the time.
1:06:48
It's a very odd omission. He never mentions orbits either.
1:06:53
That's true. That's true.
1:06:55
Or Teddy's Rock in the. 8th Doctor books, yeah.
1:06:58
Anyway, coming back to Into the Dalek, the second reason I like
1:07:02
it is we finally see the Disney money.
1:07:06
There isn't any Disney money at this point, but there is a lot
1:07:09
of money on the screen. Mark, you talked about it.
1:07:12
That opening sequence is so Star Wars with the Dalek source, and
1:07:16
it looks fucking amazing. Then you've got the cavernous
1:07:19
hold in the ship where the TARDIS lands.
1:07:20
I don't know whether that's a matte painting or what, but it
1:07:22
looks brilliant. The inside of the Dalek.
1:07:25
I think the set design, the production design on that is so
1:07:28
clever because they're constantly either going down or
1:07:31
going up. And every time you see the angle
1:07:34
from the Dalek, either from above or below, because the way
1:07:37
they've they've done the set design, you know exactly where
1:07:39
you are within that casing. And it's really clever.
1:07:42
And then you've got the masses of Daleks attacking through
1:07:45
smoke and fire at the end with a blue ice stalks lit up.
1:07:48
It looks Lovelace. I love that.
1:07:50
And finally, the third reason is Clara, you know, the Doctor is
1:07:55
rightly sensed here because he's a new Doctor.
1:07:57
We're getting to know him, but that's not done to the
1:07:59
detriments of Clara. We spend time with Clara.
1:08:01
We see her first meeting with Danny.
1:08:03
I love her exchanges with Capaldi when he says to, you
1:08:06
know, be a pal, just shows, you know, they're a close, close
1:08:09
team. And ultimately it's Clara who
1:08:11
shows the Doctor what he's missing and what they've learnt
1:08:14
about Rusty to resolve the plot. So Clara is still playing an
1:08:17
integral role in this, which I think is is lovely too.
1:08:20
So I'm absolutely putting this throat.
1:08:22
And Ken, please feel free to change your mind if you want to.
1:08:25
No, I'm not changing my mind, although I will ask you that.
1:08:29
The Daleks bursting through the door at the end, they've got to
1:08:33
be toy Daleks. They.
1:08:34
Are they are? They're the remote control ones,
1:08:36
aren't they? They're.
1:08:38
It looks stylish as a fuck like that.
1:08:41
Just. One comment just Rod, you've
1:08:43
made a very, very on don't say it, don't say it.
1:08:47
No, he has because this is what I genuinely feel.
1:08:52
I've been rewatching a lot of Who recently.
1:08:55
I do not think and I must be one of the few people because
1:08:58
everyone else says they can. I cannot see the Disney money on
1:09:02
screen and I look at some of these episodes and think.
1:09:06
This. Is gorgeous.
1:09:08
This is really beautiful with supposedly no money compared to
1:09:13
the vast billions that Disney have pumped into it, and it
1:09:18
looks beautiful. This is television that's
1:09:20
10/15/20 years old and it still looks great with that money.
1:09:25
What do we need the money for? Possibly the best looking Doctor
1:09:28
Who story of all time is Power of the Doctor, which is where
1:09:32
Chipnall bowed out. Yeah, we know the BBC threw a
1:09:35
ton of money at that. It looks Oh, come on.
1:09:38
There is a manifold of of settings, of locations, of sets
1:09:42
of effect sequences. It's money after money after
1:09:45
money. And then you skip to the star
1:09:47
based with that terrible shot of David Tennant superimposed over
1:09:50
that star scape. And it's like, fuck me, Disney
1:09:53
money. What happened?
1:09:55
Yeah. Because these I think these six
1:09:57
episodes really show money on the screen.
1:10:00
Okay, Kathy Grace, modern day, but the first five, Absolutely.
1:10:04
Director appropriate, though I think some directors really show
1:10:07
the money and other directors don't as much.
1:10:09
But we'll talk about other episodes shortly.
1:10:12
So it's one of the pisto. You have got the casting vote I.
1:10:14
Used to think this was a bit above average and now I
1:10:17
absolutely love this episode. And it's partly because Mark
1:10:22
McManus came onto my podcast and bewitched me with his opinions
1:10:27
of it. And it's partly just because
1:10:28
I've watched it again and again and I've found more reasons to
1:10:31
love it. I would have started the season
1:10:34
with this episode. I wouldn't have done any of the
1:10:36
post regeneration bullshit from Deep Breath, all of that weird
1:10:40
holdover from The Last Thing. I would have started with that
1:10:43
spaceship shooting through space and then that scene with the
1:10:47
Doctor in the TARDIS, unsure of himself, Dark, brooding,
1:10:50
sinister. And it would have gone from
1:10:53
there. And I think that would have been
1:10:54
a brilliant start to the season without all of that confusion
1:10:57
last week and lengthy boring bullshit that we got to watch.
1:11:02
I think the Doctor's companion is but alien in this.
1:11:07
I'm not talking about Clara, I'm talking about Journey Blue.
1:11:10
What a wonderful character. And I've made a few comparisons
1:11:12
for Clara, if you will indulge me, because I think Journey Blue
1:11:16
is competent without being smug, unlike Clara, combative without
1:11:21
slapping the Doctor, unlike Clara wanting to travel with him
1:11:25
rather than been torn between all of time and space, and Danny
1:11:28
Pink, unlike Clara. And she's just as hot as Clara
1:11:32
and just as well acted. So I would have been very happy
1:11:35
if if you'd gone. What?
1:11:36
Fine, go and be with that boring teacher.
1:11:38
I've got a fabulous new companion in the wings here.
1:11:41
She's a really great character and I would have liked to have
1:11:44
spent some more time with her. The Doctor is at his most sort
1:11:48
of asshole here he ever would be, and I really love it.
1:11:53
I love the dark comedy of the it's that top layer over there.
1:11:58
I like the introspection in this episode because it doesn't
1:12:00
invade too much on the episode that's playing out.
1:12:04
I think he's sinister, he's prickly, he's alien, he's
1:12:08
unknowable. Really.
1:12:11
It's a very stupid approach that they're doing, making the Doctor
1:12:14
this unlikeable. But I, I like an unlikeable Dr.
1:12:17
I like the prick that way. And I love the prick Colin, so I
1:12:21
really love. The prick Joe.
1:12:23
Yeah, I just love the Brick. Yeah, exactly.
1:12:26
And, you know, compared to that sort of humiliating Dr. Disco
1:12:29
bullshit you get in Series 9, this is just riveting to watch.
1:12:34
I think. I can't take my eyes off him in
1:12:35
this episode. And I think Capaldi commits to
1:12:38
it 100%. Whether he agreed with this
1:12:40
approach or not, He's there. He's super intense and very
1:12:43
watchable. Rod, you've already said it.
1:12:45
It's like Dalek action movie porn, isn't it?
1:12:49
I don't think they've ever looked better, if I'm honest.
1:12:51
I think they look better in this than they did in Day of the
1:12:54
Doctor. And Day of the Doctor had far
1:12:56
more money thrown here than this.
1:12:58
I love the opening dogfire straight out of Star Wars.
1:13:00
You said about the blue lights coming out of the smoke?
1:13:03
That might be the best Dalek entrance ever.
1:13:06
They're absolutely gorgeous, and just the premise of Honey, I
1:13:12
Shrunk the Doctor and the Dalek is it's mad, right?
1:13:16
And just like the invisible enemy, it's like, oh, we just so
1:13:18
happened to have this sort of shrinking machine over here
1:13:21
that's pertinent to the plot. You know, they all just jump
1:13:25
into it and everyone just takes it for granted.
1:13:26
That's the sort of thing we do in the future, which is rather
1:13:30
wonderful. There are a few comparisons that
1:13:33
I noticed with like the Tessa Lecter in Let's Kill Hitler,
1:13:36
like things flying about, trying to kill them, and things like
1:13:38
this whilst they're shrunk down inside this space, But I think
1:13:42
this is more visually arresting than Let's Kill Hitler, and far
1:13:45
more tonally assured with what it's doing.
1:13:48
It's very odd that they would take the miniaturization plot
1:13:51
this deadly seriously because it's so absurd.
1:13:55
But because they do, it feels like a genuinely dangerous
1:13:58
setting, and I think it really, really works.
1:14:01
Yeah, I think this fires on all cylinders.
1:14:04
I would have started here and it's an absolute win for me.
1:14:07
Fantastic. That's 2 for two so far.
1:14:10
Joe, pick your story. OK, let's go with.
1:14:19
Let's keep going in order. Let's go with Robot Sherwood,
1:14:23
which I've also done a they have a turn around with.
1:14:26
And thanks to the very beguiling Fraser Gregory this time, who
1:14:30
came onto my podcast and extolled the virtues of this
1:14:34
episode. It's a bit shit.
1:14:36
Like it is really shit. And the fact that it all ends in
1:14:40
this dreadful sort of science fiction spaceship going up and
1:14:45
the arrow going through space of a hit in its point, it's just
1:14:48
absolute bullshit, right? But Doctor Who has been bullshit
1:14:52
for the last 60 years and still very, very watchable.
1:14:55
And when there's as much visual splendor and fun as this episode
1:15:01
has, I don't really object to it.
1:15:03
Do you know I'm really coming to reassess Mark Gatiss's episodes
1:15:08
in the Moffatt era? Because during Strictly, I've
1:15:11
come to really fall for sleep. No more The Crimson Horror and
1:15:17
now this. Both of which one?
1:15:19
Both. Of which one?
1:15:20
Yeah, well, let's see where we go here.
1:15:22
But this truly is a beautiful episode to look at.
1:15:25
After two sort of muted episodes, it's suddenly like a
1:15:29
sort of colour on your senses. You've got sunny, lush, colorful
1:15:33
scenery, beautiful costumes. I love the, you know, the fight
1:15:37
with the spoons over the babbling brook.
1:15:39
I mean, it's sparkles, doesn't it?
1:15:41
It absolutely pops, atmospherically lit sets.
1:15:44
The whole thing is just a feast on the eyes.
1:15:46
And I like pretty looking television.
1:15:48
That's why I like RTDS era, because more often than not he
1:15:51
went for the visual than the storytelling.
1:15:54
Fuck me, Jenna Coleman is having fun.
1:15:58
Hurrah, she's actually having fun.
1:16:01
The bit where she goes well you 2 both just show up in the cell.
1:16:07
It's one of the funniest moments of the whole season.
1:16:09
She is so great, but I like how she slips into the Merry Men
1:16:14
like she's been a member of that gang forever.
1:16:18
And she's more than a match for, what's his name, Ben Miller's
1:16:22
sheriff. It's Ben Miller, isn't it?
1:16:23
Yeah. And that's a wonderful scene
1:16:25
where it's just the two of them together and, you know, sort of
1:16:28
towards the end of the season where they have the nerve to put
1:16:30
her face in the opening titles and suggest this is Clara Who
1:16:33
instead of Doctor Who. Sort of seen a bit of that here,
1:16:37
you know, of like, how if we had gone on, she could have done it.
1:16:40
She's got the nuts. Well, she doesn't.
1:16:45
Ben Miller and Doctor Who. I think he's a terrific actor
1:16:48
and I think he in this role, he's witty, verbose, theatrical
1:16:52
and clearly having the best time of his life.
1:16:56
They were going to chop his head off, weren't they?
1:16:58
And they chose not to because of things that were happening in
1:17:01
the real world at the time. Which is a shame because his
1:17:04
ending does feel. Was it just sort of edited?
1:17:08
And then, yeah. Yeah, it's just before sequence
1:17:11
where they have the final fight, because then suddenly the final
1:17:13
fight he talks about basically I'm a half man, half machine,
1:17:16
but you've not actually seen that.
1:17:18
So yeah, what he. Deserved was next time I shall
1:17:22
not be so lenient sort of moment because he's that sort of
1:17:24
villain, right? He's just chewing the scenery.
1:17:27
Why don't you get enough of these in New who and it's sort
1:17:30
of erring towards classic who pantomimic performance than new
1:17:35
who naturalism. And that's why I really like it,
1:17:38
because I just think acting is very boring these days.
1:17:42
And I don't know why I wrote this, but I just put Tom Riley's
1:17:45
eyes. They're just beautiful.
1:17:48
I said when all else fails in this episode and the climax is a
1:17:51
total failure, which it is here, you can look into Tom Riley's
1:17:55
probing, absorbing and humouring eyes and still smile.
1:18:00
Man, you'll. Enjoy the climax.
1:18:01
Beautiful. What a beautiful man, and he
1:18:04
really brings some charisma to the role of Robin Hood.
1:18:07
I do have a few issues with doing the sort of Robin Hood
1:18:11
myth in such a Hollywood eyes way that they do here.
1:18:16
My preference is to the more, and I know it's a myth rather
1:18:20
than history, but it's sort of done as if it's history.
1:18:24
My preference is sort of the demon sort of Punjab style of
1:18:27
history, sort of doing it for real.
1:18:30
But it's really fun. It's got energy, it's funny,
1:18:34
it's a good time in a season where there are many good times.
1:18:39
So let's put it through. Let's go to the comments.
1:18:42
Big Orange, Michael says The arc of whether this doctor is a hero
1:18:46
or not continues, this time comparing him to the fictional
1:18:48
Robin Hood. I recall wanting to like this
1:18:51
more than I actually did. Darren Lit Randall says
1:18:54
enjoyable. The trio of the doctor, Claro
1:18:56
and Robin amused me. The direction is a come down,
1:18:58
sadly a bit CBCBBC. Yes, it's very watchable.
1:19:03
James Lark says oh, I see, after two weeks of angry shouting, can
1:19:07
you or can't you trust him, Doctor?
1:19:09
This week? He's a whimsical fellow who
1:19:11
fights with a spoon. Also, why you can't sword fight
1:19:15
with a spoon? You'd lose your arm.
1:19:17
Anyway. The real problem with this is it
1:19:19
takes a great idea and squanders it, which is something you could
1:19:22
say about a lot of these stories.
1:19:24
He's Doctor Who, of course he can fight with a spoon.
1:19:27
Although did you know who it is? In my defence, I did not mention
1:19:30
the fact that Peter Capaldi shits all over the fun in this
1:19:32
episode. Oh, he's so grumpy in this,
1:19:34
isn't he? Tom Turlo.
1:19:37
A bit of a dud. Apart from the unquiet, Dead,
1:19:39
Gates's writing never works for me.
1:19:40
This tries to be fun than not be, but it's mostly a bit
1:19:43
cheesy. Yeah, that's why it's great.
1:19:45
Jenna looks absolutely gorgeous, mind you.
1:19:48
Luke Sims Jenkins says it's fun. Sue me.
1:19:51
Puffin has made a whole book line out of these kinds of
1:19:53
stories. Get one.
1:19:54
I did and now I want the lot. Michael Storm says a gloriously
1:19:58
silly Rob that perhaps should have gone out.
1:20:00
Second, the Doctor's pomposity is gently pricked, making the
1:20:03
character more engaging. Swashbuckling boys own adventure
1:20:06
with robots? I'm all in.
1:20:08
Pity the cutscene wasn't reattached for commercial
1:20:10
release. Oh.
1:20:11
Crestices don't remember much about this other than it was
1:20:13
reasonably fun, but the whole rivalry between the doctor and
1:20:16
Robin was annoying rather than funny.
1:20:19
Jason Thompson Probably my favorite of this series.
1:20:21
I hate the Doctor and Robin competing to impress Clara.
1:20:25
The Doctor should be well above such schoolyard crap.
1:20:28
Does he not remember the Green Day If you know Cliff Jones?
1:20:31
But the episode is fun and has lots of lovely moments and great
1:20:34
hammy villain feels. The most Doctor Who episode of
1:20:37
the bunch. Keep it.
1:20:38
Great Doctor Who says where Capaldi truly feels like the
1:20:40
Doctor to me. All the main castle I bring on
1:20:43
at each other is enjoyable. The robot nights look great.
1:20:46
Overall, it's just a good story. Daniel Rosley, another one
1:20:49
that's miles better on we watch Once you accept this is very
1:20:52
much the sunny Errol Flynn storybook type Robin Hood
1:20:56
Capaldi determined to be the Mr. Killjoy Clara Sherwood fan girl
1:20:59
and his contest with Robin over who is has the bigger Dick will
1:21:03
never not be funny. McCoy says underrated.
1:21:06
A fun rump. That's exactly what we need at
1:21:08
this point of the series. As a big pert, we found Gatus
1:21:10
understands that a haughty, high minded grouch needs to be the
1:21:14
butt of the joke. Funny one liners packed with
1:21:16
action, slightly arch guest performances.
1:21:19
It's Doctor Who for all the family.
1:21:21
Here he is champion of the damned Fraser Gregory.
1:21:23
Hands down the best of the series as Gatis realizes that
1:21:27
this doctor is more victim elder than Malcolm Tucker and and
1:21:31
leads into Capaldi's comedy skills.
1:21:33
From the spoon fight to the dungeon scene.
1:21:34
I mean it's a hoot. So much so that the Bobbins
1:21:37
ending is forgiven. Gloriously filmed and directed.
1:21:40
I could watch this over and over.
1:21:42
Jim Allenby says screw you all. It's glorious.
1:21:46
Hilarious. The scene between Robin and the
1:21:48
doctor in the cell had me crying with laughter and Oh my word,
1:21:52
how beautiful does Jenna Coleman look in that red dress?
1:21:56
I added that bit in. It's a comfort story for me.
1:22:00
I mean. I agree.
1:22:01
Daniel Knight, one of the highlights of this run.
1:22:04
A fun romp. I'm loving all this positivity.
1:22:06
A fun romp that makes light of the Am IA Goodman nonsense and
1:22:10
gives us strongest performances from Ben Miller and Tom Riley.
1:22:14
The resolution is out of Bob Insight.
1:22:17
If Gusby practice on paper a light hearted romp, could
1:22:20
someone pop back and tell Capaldi?
1:22:21
He seems to be playing against the tone of the rest of the
1:22:24
episode. Another episode where the
1:22:26
audience wants to give Doctor Who a slap.
1:22:29
And finally Joe Llewellyn, I love this one.
1:22:32
Cranky Dr. meets smart ass Robin.
1:22:34
Clara's the adult in the dungeon in a gorgeous red dress.
1:22:37
Actually funny not mean. Complete bullshit ending doesn't
1:22:41
ruin it. Sheriff was great.
1:22:43
Best of the series. Mark, over to you.
1:22:46
Is this best of the series? It's not.
1:22:49
The best of the series. But it's it's it's definitely
1:22:51
one to keep because it's it is brilliant.
1:22:55
Yeah. I love it.
1:22:56
I love, I love how funny it is. I don't think it's a problem
1:22:58
that Capaldi's not kind of, you know, with the tone of the rest
1:23:02
of it, because I think that is where Doctor Who can be a bit
1:23:05
kind of smug and grating if you know the way sort of, you know,
1:23:11
the Doctor and roles were at times when they're sort of high
1:23:12
fiving and going like traveling through time and space and stuff
1:23:15
like that. So I think the Doctor cutting
1:23:17
against that is really fun. And a lot of the humour of the
1:23:20
story comes from that for me. But I think it's not just, you
1:23:24
know, it's not just throw away as well.
1:23:26
It does tie into the themes, particularly Stephen Moffatt's
1:23:28
Doctor Who about the importance of stories to people.
1:23:32
And I think that's reflected in Clara Roswell being an English
1:23:36
teacher. You know, we had the Ian and
1:23:38
Barbara when Doctor Who started as as history and science
1:23:42
teachers, which reflected the kind of preoccupations of the
1:23:44
series at the time. You're either in a science
1:23:46
fiction environment or historical environment, whereas
1:23:49
now it is about that importance of, of, of stories and heroes
1:23:54
and, and that kind of really speaks to that, especially the
1:23:57
end when the Doctor and Robin are talking about how, you know,
1:24:00
if you try to be a hero, you can inspire other people and, and
1:24:04
all that kind of stuff. But yeah, they all the fun
1:24:06
stuffs great as well. The, the talk about the mini
1:24:08
scope, the Doctor think he could be in a mini scope is brilliant.
1:24:11
The cheeky little Patrick Troughton picture when they.
1:24:14
Yeah, they're looking at the file of all the kind of Robin
1:24:17
Hood myths and all that kind of stuff.
1:24:19
And yeah, just, I think, I think, yeah, Peter Capaldi, you
1:24:25
know, he's got a bit of background in comedy, hasn't he?
1:24:27
And I think he plays it really, really well in this.
1:24:30
Brilliant can it would be. More annoying if I can't believe
1:24:34
I'm going to say this if Clara wasn't there because they really
1:24:38
are behaving like a pair of Dick swinging pricks aren't like the
1:24:42
pair of them. And when she just tells them to
1:24:44
shut up it's such an earn insult.
1:24:47
It's near that point of like because that's exactly what
1:24:49
you're thinking. But she does it in such an
1:24:51
explosive way. Wonderful.
1:24:55
You say Wonderful and Clara in the same sentence.
1:24:58
And and sexy as well. Pasta.
1:25:01
Smelling salts. Can't.
1:25:04
Do it. That's one particular area I'm
1:25:06
not prepared to tread too far into because she's a good ten
1:25:11
years younger than I am. And I always said that anybody
1:25:15
who's never saved anything to an A drive, they're too young.
1:25:21
So she's I'll not be. 20s you know, Ken.
1:25:25
Well, should be in the mid 30s by now, but that still leaves
1:25:28
her a good ten years. Too big a gap the wrong way, no?
1:25:31
So my wife's 10. Years younger than me.
1:25:33
I can't say anything. My ex.
1:25:35
Was Yeah, I. Know, Mark, but you've actually
1:25:36
married her. It's that's a you know, we live
1:25:41
in a different world now. You can't lust after somebody
1:25:43
that's even vaguely hinting towards being too young.
1:25:47
So no marriage is sound. It's it's just not this Ben.
1:25:54
I know it's going straight against the grain, but I'm being
1:25:57
cruel. This is my Yeah, I didn't enjoy
1:26:01
it very much. I enjoyed it more on the rewatch
1:26:04
for this pod, but this is one of my least rewatched episodes.
1:26:10
Yeah, I I don't like all the argy barger between the Doctor
1:26:17
and Robin. It gets old quite quickly, all
1:26:19
the Dicks ringing as it's been put, because it makes the
1:26:24
inevitable handshake at the end cringy the longer and longer you
1:26:29
carry that on. And it goes on a long way into
1:26:32
the episode, sort of. At the end.
1:26:36
Shaky hands. Yes, you were a good man after
1:26:38
all. Yes, I was, wasn't I?
1:26:43
I? I just wish, I tell you one
1:26:45
thing. I do wish.
1:26:46
I wish Doctor Who would have the balls to do a straight
1:26:51
historical. This would have been a lot
1:26:53
better. I think for me personally
1:26:55
without all the science fiction bollocks.
1:26:57
I really there's so many other episodes recently that have been
1:27:03
spoiled by it. They could have been a nice
1:27:04
historical adventure. Joe, you've mentioned Demons of
1:27:08
the Punjab and Rose is another one.
1:27:12
What the hell was the science fiction doing in there?
1:27:14
He didn't need it. It would have been so much
1:27:16
better without that one. Out in some detail on other
1:27:21
episodes, don't worry. And we've got the scars to prove
1:27:24
it. Oh.
1:27:25
God I. Don't.
1:27:27
Just as an aside, I've on the back of Strictly.
1:27:30
This is down to you. I watched 3 episodes of Jodie
1:27:36
Whittaker's run. They were cherry picked.
1:27:38
I'm. So sorry they.
1:27:40
Were cherry picked, I have to say Rod.
1:27:43
I avoided Rosa, I avoided Demons of the Punjab.
1:27:47
But I. I thought give it a chance.
1:27:51
Now ghost monuments, I thought, give it a chance.
1:27:54
It looks gorgeous. I'm going to leave that there.
1:27:57
But that's my pinnacle of if you want Disney money, why when it
1:28:04
can look that good on BBC money? We'll bring it back to Series 8.
1:28:09
I. Think it's far too whimsical.
1:28:10
Robot of Sherwood The the the title annoys me.
1:28:14
Robot singular of Sherwood, the thing's bloody full of them.
1:28:19
It's trying to throw you off guard.
1:28:23
The whole is Robin Hood a myth or is he real real, real, real,
1:28:28
real No could be a myth, could be oh look, all this evidence is
1:28:31
a myth, but he's real. And then there's some crowbar
1:28:34
explanation at the end as to why he's science fiction real, but
1:28:37
we'll leave him behind in the real.
1:28:39
I just annoys me. All this tinkering with
1:28:43
something established rather than why doesn't the Doctor just
1:28:48
land and I don't believe in Robin Hood doesn't exist.
1:28:50
Oh, actually, it does exist. It annoyed me.
1:28:55
You've got a great cast in here, as you say, Ben Miller, He does
1:28:59
really good turn as the Sheriff. This pantomime Dame, which the
1:29:04
Sheriff of Nottingham in every incarnation that we've seen on
1:29:07
screen has been the pantomime villain.
1:29:10
That's exactly that role. They could have done all of this
1:29:14
without the science fiction spaceship nonsense, or at least
1:29:19
it being as panto as it was. Mark, I did love the little
1:29:24
Patrick Troughton. Still, I thought that was a very
1:29:27
cheeky wink. God, they had some balls doing
1:29:30
that. I'll give them that.
1:29:32
But on the whole, it was just, it was just too comedic.
1:29:37
And I like my Doctor Who to be quite serious.
1:29:41
I've got to be honest. Any any hint of the whimsy, it
1:29:45
does tend to turn me off. So I'm just being a grumpy old
1:29:48
bastard. But yeah, it's so you're being.
1:29:51
You're being Capaldi in this episode.
1:29:54
Or me, you know. Well, I I have the problem the
1:30:01
the main problem is with the Capaldi.
1:30:04
His style of dress is exactly mine.
1:30:11
Years before I used to dress like Capaldi.
1:30:15
When I was at college 20 years ago, I used to dress.
1:30:18
Like I used to dress like Clara, but that's another story.
1:30:22
Oh, I'm sorry, it's not. Just like Robin Hood.
1:30:28
So to finally find in 2013 that with this grumpy old bastard
1:30:33
that I've been my entire life, I have suddenly become the 12th
1:30:37
Doctor. He is there on screen.
1:30:39
That is me. Yes, I am a grumpy old bastard,
1:30:42
but it's not a favorite. And if we're being ruthless
1:30:47
people, bin this one's for the bin for me.
1:30:50
You know it is old though. I think I meant to say but it
1:30:54
wasn't a defence so I chose not to say it.
1:30:56
It is very odd that after 2 episodes of the Doctor being a
1:31:00
bastard that they then bring in dashing, heroic, funny,
1:31:05
adventurous character to highlight.
1:31:08
Against the Doctor. Who's also gorgeous.
1:31:11
And I'm like, oh, there's the Doctor right there, you know,
1:31:15
let's ditch Clara for Journey Blue.
1:31:17
Let's ditch Capaldi for Tom Riley, and there's your series.
1:31:21
Sorry, Rod. It's.
1:31:23
A small point, but the the IT isn't it called Robot of
1:31:26
Sherwood. It sounds more like Robin of
1:31:27
Sherwood, whereas robots would take it too far from that.
1:31:31
I think I don't care, Mike. It just annoys me.
1:31:33
It's another better. Joke Britain of the season so.
1:31:37
Ken's arguments is that the comedy episode is too comedic.
1:31:40
That's. Right.
1:31:41
Pronounce. It's just that it's not to his
1:31:43
taste. Right.
1:31:44
So we've got one. It's just.
1:31:45
Not to me. One apiece.
1:31:47
So I'm going to put this through.
1:31:50
So at the time I was kind of found this a bit disappointed
1:31:54
because I really enjoyed the darker tone of the 1st 2:00.
1:31:57
But you know what re watching it since once it's free from that
1:32:00
kind of the constraints of the running order.
1:32:02
I just have a blast watching it. I just think it's so much fun.
1:32:06
We've you guys have touched on a lot of the points.
1:32:08
First thing I want to talk about was kind of myths and legends.
1:32:10
I think this is the first time in you who we've met a
1:32:13
historical character who's not well known and well Doc and
1:32:16
could possibly be a myth. So that gives us more fun.
1:32:20
It gives us more scope to play with.
1:32:21
We don't have to worry about causing offence.
1:32:23
We don't have to wallpaper over a genuine person's flaws like we
1:32:27
do with Churchill and Nikola Tesla.
1:32:29
It just means we can have more fun with this.
1:32:31
And it also allows Gators to kind of constantly play out that
1:32:34
mystery of what's going on here. Mark, you've already talked
1:32:37
about in Is this a, is this a mini scope is robbing a robot,
1:32:41
which the title obviously leads you to believe.
1:32:45
The Doctor finally settles right until the end of the episode.
1:32:48
The Robins are fake out to give the masses some hope, which he
1:32:52
realizes the end is an absolute ridiculous idea.
1:32:54
But he's still hanging on to that.
1:32:55
And it makes the audience keep guessing all the way through,
1:32:58
which I think is interesting. It also allows Gators obviously
1:33:01
to kind of balance the myth of the Doctor against the myth of
1:33:05
Robin Hood. And whilst that.
1:33:06
Yeah, that parallel is hammered home with not much subtlety or
1:33:10
nuance, but I still enjoy. I still think it works.
1:33:14
And I love that line at the end where Robin says perhaps we will
1:33:17
both be stories. And may those stories never end.
1:33:20
You know it is. Good here.
1:33:21
I think it's well positioned in this am IA good manner where the
1:33:25
Doctor's questioning who he is to have this heroic figure
1:33:30
basically say you are a good man, off you go and be the myth.
1:33:35
I think that's it's it's well placed well times I.
1:33:37
Agree, I agree. I also like where Robin kind of
1:33:39
sees the legends that he'll become in the future in the
1:33:42
spaceships data ban, because that kind of in a way acts like
1:33:45
a counterbalance to Vincent and doctor when Van Gogh travels to
1:33:48
the future to see his legacy. And they're they're hoping to do
1:33:51
that, but that will comfort Vincent.
1:33:54
But here Robin is initially appalled by the thought he's
1:33:56
going to become a legend, but then towards the end, he's at
1:33:59
peace with her and he's happy to become a story.
1:34:01
So I think that works really well.
1:34:02
I also think this is just generally very, very funny.
1:34:05
There are loads of really good throwaway lines in this.
1:34:08
When the sheriff attacks the village and he says to to master
1:34:11
Quayle, you shall live to regret this, which is a typical kind of
1:34:15
camp over the top villa line, then says, actually, no, you
1:34:17
won't and just kills him. I mean, that's just unexpected.
1:34:21
I think that works. The sheriff's question, you
1:34:23
know, who will rid me of this turbulent Dr. which is obviously
1:34:26
mimicking Henry the Second, Who will rid me of this turbulent
1:34:29
priest? The doctor meeting the Merry Men
1:34:32
and scanning them all and trying to work them out.
1:34:34
He thinks that Friar Tuck is a fake until he smells his shoe,
1:34:37
which I think is funny. And he meets Alan Naddale and
1:34:41
scans him and realises he's absolutely riddled with diseases
1:34:44
and he's going to die in six months and all he says to him is
1:34:47
bye. Which again is that kind of
1:34:48
gallows hue that hold he's got in spades here.
1:34:52
I love the arrow contest. We've got David Benson Panda
1:34:55
from the Iris series gets seen on screen and I love them all
1:35:00
locked in the dungeon. I do think that is a funny
1:35:02
saying. Far is the only adult in the
1:35:04
room and even that kind of plague ridden peasant can see
1:35:08
that where the Doctor and Robin can't.
1:35:09
They're just swinging their Dicks at each other.
1:35:12
And then finally, Joe, you said that third reason.
1:35:14
It just looks beautiful. It's such a handsome production.
1:35:17
That first was. Needed at this point, yeah.
1:35:19
When the tide is materialized in the wood and the camera's really
1:35:21
low, so you see that babbling brook that they fight over and
1:35:24
the log and the forest. I think the robot, the robot
1:35:28
Knights are really clever because they've got that.
1:35:30
The cross in the front, the laser comes out of black Cross
1:35:34
is mirrored with all the the castles arrow slits you see
1:35:37
constantly in the background with the light streaming through
1:35:39
them. And it also obviously mirrors
1:35:42
the cross, which reminds you of obviously all the religious wars
1:35:44
that that King Richard is off fighting at the moment.
1:35:47
So again, it's kind of layering on all of that.
1:35:50
I think the castle interiors look really atmospheric.
1:35:53
The spaceship interior is quite unique.
1:35:55
It's low, it's dark, it's long, which is quite unusual for a
1:35:58
look. Makes it distinctive.
1:35:59
Yeah, I just think it's lovely. It's funny.
1:36:02
Yeah. I'm putting it through.
1:36:03
Last point about the comedy, and I know comedy is subjective and
1:36:08
everybody's reaction to it, but like go back 3 or 4 episodes and
1:36:12
we're doing, you know, Matt Smith naked in the console room
1:36:14
going oh, I'm Naked and then oh. I'm Clara's boyfriend.
1:36:18
And it's just laboured and hideous, I think.
1:36:23
And now you skip forward to here and we're doing like witty
1:36:26
jewels, you know, like the repartee.
1:36:29
It's like 2 rapiers going at each other.
1:36:31
It's just a better class of comedy.
1:36:34
I think it's really underrated, this one, I think.
1:36:37
I think. It is underrated and the.
1:36:39
Personal reason I really like it is when I was a kid, I lived
1:36:41
near Nottingham and we used to go to Sherwood Forest quite a
1:36:44
bit because it's a nice little day out.
1:36:45
So it really reminded me of of that.
1:36:47
And the little shop sells little bows and arrows and that kind of
1:36:49
thing. So I always loved the the Robin
1:36:52
Hood kind of legends because it's it's obviously a big thing
1:36:54
down there as well. Hopefully that shop also sells
1:36:57
spoons now. And yet, you know, I can't
1:37:00
understand why people wouldn't like this as well.
1:37:03
I can see why it's on my episode.
1:37:06
Fortunately, three of us loved it.
1:37:08
So it's going through. Should we go to our second batch
1:37:11
of overall comments, Mark and Ken?
1:37:15
Then? Ken, we started with you last
1:37:16
time. So Mark, kick us off with this
1:37:19
set of comments. James Lark says he poorly
1:37:24
conceived and wrong headed approach to making the Doctor
1:37:26
interesting and the most uninspired, complacent set of
1:37:30
scripts Moffat ever let through. This is the nadir of his time in
1:37:34
charge, and I'm surprised Capaldi came back for a second
1:37:36
year. He's the man.
1:37:39
Dear God. Did he?
1:37:41
Watch series 6. I can't imagine he didn't.
1:37:46
Oh seriousness, Darren says. I would happily travel with the
1:37:50
Doctor. There are a couple of episodes
1:37:52
that disappointing or miss the mark, but I loved Capaldi as the
1:37:57
Doctor sound man. As much as I love sigh heart,
1:38:03
I'm afraid yeah, he's he's kind of got it wrong here as well.
1:38:07
Why would anyone want to travel with this doctor and companion?
1:38:10
The series and the Doctor start navel gazing and more often than
1:38:13
not I'm clock clock watching was.
1:38:16
That clock watching, yeah. Aside from the caretaker, it's
1:38:21
all OK, just not very exciting on you.
1:38:24
Not my era. Actually, not my era.
1:38:27
Cast sexual aspersions onto sigh half I'm so sorry Naive an
1:38:32
innocent man in all of POG. Are you kidding me?
1:38:36
A slept with half a fandom. Jesus, you said there's 3/4, not
1:38:39
half. Oh, his.
1:38:40
List is momentous. That's a scurrilous accusation.
1:38:45
That's very true. God, he's been an iPod I better
1:38:50
get myself checked on. You what?
1:38:52
He's been on everybody's pod though.
1:38:54
Oh, sorry, sorry. He knows it's true though.
1:38:59
He's got one coming up soon. Tom.
1:39:04
I've. Been fucking robot or Sherwood
1:39:06
now? Oh, determined to read this out,
1:39:09
Tom Turlo. I was tremendously excited at
1:39:12
the prospect of Capaldi becoming the Doctor.
1:39:15
But although I do think he's probably my favorite new Who
1:39:18
Doctor, there's something about his era that never quite works.
1:39:21
It has brilliant moments, but never totally coheres.
1:39:25
Oh. I don't disagree with that
1:39:27
comment at all. David Gillespie, brat.
1:39:30
There's something about these that I just don't like.
1:39:33
Making the Doctor spiky and more alien could work, but he needs a
1:39:37
twinkle in the eye that comes eventually.
1:39:42
Jim Allenby more good than bad. I was fully on board with a
1:39:46
crankier Dr. and Capaldi delivers in spades.
1:39:50
His relationship with Clara often comes across as
1:39:52
troublesome, though. Speaking of, we get another
1:39:55
reinvention of Clara and I'm not sure I'm keen on this one.
1:40:00
He couldn't quite get it right at all.
1:40:01
Goody. Daniel Rosa says even if I was
1:40:06
super pumped for Capaldi, the Doctors fucking divine.
1:40:09
This was rightly off putting. So it was slightly off putting.
1:40:12
Thankfully time has been mostly kind.
1:40:14
The spiky Capaldi Coleman dynamic is at once refreshing
1:40:18
and alienating, and the season plays like a dark underbelly of
1:40:21
Matt Smith's fairy tale era. Very experimental with more
1:40:24
focus on morality and identity. He really annoys me.
1:40:28
That's exactly what I was trying to say at the start of the
1:40:30
episode, but he did it more intelligently and succinctly.
1:40:35
John Arnold Capaldi seems to be on a Thick of It hangover as a
1:40:40
result. This is something of a downbeat
1:40:41
start to the era and a huge change from Smith's manic
1:40:45
energy. From Big Orange Michael, it's
1:40:49
like Moffett and Compa it's it's like Moffett and Capaldi wanted
1:40:52
to give a classic whose sensibility to the modern show,
1:40:55
and I really enjoyed it. Joe Llewellyn I certainly did
1:41:00
not like the anti military theme seeded throughout this series.
1:41:04
You can be anti war. I'm anti war but not anti
1:41:07
soldier. I did not like this callous
1:41:10
Doctor Joe. Llewellyn is an ex soldier
1:41:13
that's coming from, you know, experience.
1:41:19
Luke Sims Jenkins This half of series 8 is fine.
1:41:23
There are things I like, but Clara and Danny?
1:41:25
Holy fucking shit go away. The most boring bloody TV ever
1:41:33
gave us. Oh, we'll get there.
1:41:35
Oh. I'm on my own for this Charlie
1:41:38
Bynes bit of a come down after the 50th anniversary
1:41:41
celebration. We have an unreasonable killjoy
1:41:44
as the Doctor, an insufferable girl boss for a companion, and
1:41:47
the non character that is Danny Pink.
1:41:50
Am I the only person that actually really loved all these
1:41:53
characters? No, I didn't.
1:41:56
Clara, I think he's, she's exactly the source of moth to a
1:42:02
flame that I would fly towards them off and get horribly burned
1:42:06
because. You said.
1:42:08
Earlier. She's too young for you that she
1:42:11
herself. Has.
1:42:12
Changed. That type though, the the really
1:42:17
strong sort of take no crap. I I love all that Danny Pink.
1:42:23
He's been through he's we're getting ahead of ourselves, but
1:42:27
you like a little. Toxicity.
1:42:28
Do you? You like being slapped around
1:42:30
the face? You're not being told to fuck
1:42:32
off quite a lot. I couldn't possibly go.
1:42:37
I think we ought to move on very soon, I mean.
1:42:39
Let's be honest, we've been making these season 22
1:42:41
parallels. The 6th Doctor and Perry, the
1:42:43
12th Doctor and Clara. It's all there, I think.
1:42:47
It it can't bid in I Joe there is the more you go through this.
1:42:51
This is early 6th Doctor and Perry, OH.
1:42:54
It is. It's.
1:42:55
Right there. And like the 6th Doctor and
1:42:57
Perry, I think they get there, but it does take some time.
1:43:01
Right so we've got 3 left. I'm going to leave you guys to
1:43:05
do the heavier episodes and I will talk about the caretaker
1:43:12
we're. Skipping.
1:43:12
Right to the end, skipping. Right to the end, mixing it up a
1:43:15
bit. So first thing I really like
1:43:18
about The Caretaker is I think it's a really good cold open
1:43:22
because it's quite an extended cold open.
1:43:24
I think it's engaging, it's funny and it sets up an
1:43:26
intriguing storyline. So we see Clara balancing her
1:43:30
life with the Doctor in her everyday life, and that's played
1:43:32
a pace. It's funny.
1:43:34
I love the scene where she jumps into the taxi and she's pulling
1:43:36
out bits of seaweed because she's just run off to meet fish
1:43:39
people. Then we move to the Doctor doing
1:43:41
something mysterious and the TARDIS and hiding it from Clara.
1:43:44
And I think the dynamic of them together worked really well.
1:43:47
All that back and forth, it's funny, it's quirky.
1:43:49
And then we see Danny and Clara going into school together.
1:43:52
She's still trying to hide things from him.
1:43:54
They're both trying to hide their relationship from the
1:43:57
school kids. So that's a perfect setup for a
1:43:59
farce. And we know this is a comedy
1:44:01
episode, so, you know, a farcical setup is great.
1:44:05
And then finally, we get the introduction of the doctor as
1:44:07
the new caretaker, which has definitely got callbacks to
1:44:10
School Reunion, where the doctor's pretending to be a
1:44:12
teacher, meeting Sarah, doing her job, which is what Clara's
1:44:15
doing here. So I'm fully on board, Joe.
1:44:19
I just want to prove that how well I know you doing strictly.
1:44:24
Come hamster. Now.
1:44:26
You really hate this, don't you? I fucking hate.
1:44:31
I so. Hate this episode?
1:44:34
So yeah, I love the cold open. I genuinely think it's really
1:44:38
clever and I was on board. We then get the title music and
1:44:42
what the fuck goes wrong after the title music?
1:44:45
No, no. I mean, let's include the title
1:44:47
music, OK? Include the title music.
1:44:49
We suddenly get this weird kind of inept parody of Doctor Who
1:44:53
where nobody acts in character. All the kind of cleverness, wit
1:44:57
and charm goes out the window. That potential for fast I talk
1:45:00
about dissipates. We have the worst monster design
1:45:04
I ever seen short of Galloping Galaxies, the Skovox Blitzer,
1:45:09
You've got Muse. I love Murray but his music is
1:45:11
overly accentuating. This is comedy and terrible
1:45:16
direction, which results in a man doing a backward flip 8 feet
1:45:20
in the air, somersaulting, coming down to land perfectly.
1:45:24
What's my favorite? Bitch.
1:45:26
Joe, I can genuinely say you may fall off your seat.
1:45:29
Bring back Orphan 55. Bring back Legend of the Sea
1:45:32
Devils. I am sorry I have done the 360.
1:45:36
This to use James Larks word this episode is the fucking idea
1:45:41
of Doctor Who. It is hideous on every level.
1:45:45
Can I ask you a question though? Is it because because the Doctor
1:45:47
comes across as a terrible racist in this episode?
1:45:51
That's. One of the reasons, yeah, it's
1:45:53
the characters. I just think the characters are
1:45:55
so. It's been so clever.
1:45:58
I don't want to ruin my powder for for the two we haven't
1:46:01
talked about, but why not? I love the set up of the
1:46:05
beginning. I was so on board.
1:46:07
I think Capaldi's great, I love his character.
1:46:10
Just everything about those first five episodes, I think
1:46:12
it's magnificent. And then we hit this and it's
1:46:15
just tonally, it's not that it's comedy episode, because we had
1:46:18
comedy with Robot of Sherwood and I enjoy that.
1:46:21
But this just feels wrong, you know?
1:46:24
I've been on board with Capaldi up to now.
1:46:26
Even his dislike of soldiers, which doesn't particularly seem
1:46:29
grounded in anything. I know Mark, you've given a good
1:46:32
reading for it, but I can't quite see where we're going with
1:46:36
that. But I'm I was happy to go with
1:46:37
it at this stage. Let's see where it lands.
1:46:40
But here, the Doctor's not just written as grumpy and rude, he's
1:46:43
just stupid here, which is not his character.
1:46:45
How does the fuck does he not realize the connection between
1:46:48
Orson Pink and Danny Pink? Especially as Clara specifically
1:46:53
points it out to him. And moreover, you know, when
1:46:56
Matt Smith was playing kind of his inability to blend win with
1:46:59
people, which surprise, surprise, is mostly done in
1:47:02
other scripts written by Gareth Roberts, that's playing up to
1:47:05
Smith's kind of naivety and innocence.
1:47:07
So I think that works. But this Doctor is far from
1:47:11
naive. So his inability to read
1:47:13
situations, it just doesn't work.
1:47:15
That stupid scene where he draws attention to himself, where he
1:47:18
climbs up the ladder and puts his head through Clara's school
1:47:21
class window. It's just, what are we actually
1:47:23
doing here? Makes no sense.
1:47:26
And the worst bit, Joe, you're right, is that relationship with
1:47:28
Danny. There are lines here that
1:47:30
explain what I think they're going for, but it's hidden
1:47:34
beneath so much shit that it's hard to actually find that.
1:47:38
So Danny at the end rationalises the the Doctors kind of testing
1:47:42
him to see that he's good enough for Clara.
1:47:44
And you know what? I could buy that one if they
1:47:46
actually see that throughout the episode.
1:47:48
But secondly, we've seen how the Doctor reacted to that Matt
1:47:51
Smith look alike. Who things going out with Clara
1:47:54
and he signs him off straight away.
1:47:55
He's perfectly happy for Clara to go off with him, but not with
1:47:58
Danny. So you can't say that the
1:48:00
Doctor's testing a potential suitor for Clara because he
1:48:04
doesn't do it with that other character.
1:48:06
So that falls apart. And then of course, Rod about.
1:48:09
The teacher that looks like Matt Smith.
1:48:14
And then of course, we come to this awful oh, you must teach PE
1:48:18
because you're a soldier. Which, yeah, it does come across
1:48:21
as racist because we've had that other teacher there as the
1:48:24
parallel. If that wasn't there, you could
1:48:26
just read it that he's being. But it doesn't.
1:48:29
And it just feels so undoctor ish.
1:48:32
It's just horrible. And to be fair, I don't think
1:48:34
Danny comes out well out of this either.
1:48:36
He goes into the TARDIS invisible to listen to that
1:48:39
conversation and then turns on the Doctor and treats him like
1:48:42
he's an officer. Now if he's a soldier, he treats
1:48:44
an officer with respect, but he's taking the piss out of him
1:48:47
as an officer. It's just everything about it is
1:48:49
just too horrible to unpack. Even the incidental characters
1:48:52
like Courtney's errands, even they get get comedy lines.
1:48:56
It's just the whole thing I just find incredibly uncomfortable
1:49:01
and unwatchable. Do you remember?
1:49:02
When we talked about Father's Day, do you remember when I said
1:49:04
there was that awful EastEnders moment where they're in the flat
1:49:07
and it's like. Oh, I'm going to leave you.
1:49:09
Oh, go on then. You've been nothing without me.
1:49:12
And I said that was sort of like the worst in the new series.
1:49:15
I think the bit the EastEnders moment in this where Clara's
1:49:19
between Danny and the Doctor, oh, it's just loathsome.
1:49:23
That's it. Is, but it's just hard to.
1:49:25
Ever get there? It's.
1:49:27
Out of character for all these characters that we've seen, this
1:49:31
episode just feels like it's it's just set apart.
1:49:33
Feels like it's not part of the series.
1:49:35
It's just very odd. And you know, I mean, what the
1:49:38
hell? The plots about the Skovox
1:49:40
Blitzer, What the fuck is that doing?
1:49:42
It mentions, oh, it's tracking residual arch on enemy.
1:49:45
Sorry, I'm laughing here because Joe's doing a very good
1:49:47
impression of the Skovox Blitzer wobbling across the scene.
1:49:51
It's tracking, making residual Artron enemy energy.
1:49:54
Well, I know the whole point is to concentrate on characters,
1:49:57
but when characters are written as badly as this, then yeah, you
1:50:01
need a part. I just.
1:50:02
I hate this. Have I made that clear?
1:50:04
I hate this episode. I think it's very, very poor.
1:50:08
Well. In contrast, shall I start with
1:50:09
the comments because it's a very positive open here.
1:50:12
Oh, is that your friend of mine? Who says?
1:50:17
A triumph. The Doctor in full comedy mode
1:50:20
is delightful, but the story belongs to the series Most
1:50:23
Valuable Player, Oh God and the heart of the Ark of Jesus, Danny
1:50:28
Pink, who not only saves the day but shows he's a cut above by
1:50:32
effortlessly and expertly skewering the Doctor's ego.
1:50:35
A romp with a core of steel, it's another one to keep and
1:50:39
relish. Phrase a relish caretaker,
1:50:42
please. I mean, I like Danny Pink in the
1:50:45
rest of the series. I've got to say.
1:50:47
I think he's I'd like the character.
1:50:49
I think he's played well. But in the caretaker, it's an
1:50:52
absolute no, I think. I think.
1:50:54
Fraser likes Danny Pink because Danny Pink is a subtle bloke.
1:50:58
Yeah, he's he's an understated man like Fraser.
1:51:02
Yeah, well, I absolutely love Fraser with all of my heart, but
1:51:06
I don't want him to be in Doctor Who stories because he would be
1:51:09
as engaging as Danny Pink in a Doctor Who story.
1:51:12
But. We've just been talking that
1:51:13
into the dialogue. I think Danny Pink works really
1:51:15
well in that. We'll be talking about Listen
1:51:17
shortly. I think he works really well in
1:51:18
that. I just think it's the Caretaker
1:51:20
because it's so poorly conceived.
1:51:23
Anyway, Jack Coyer says it's got the fluffy knockabout antics of
1:51:26
the other Gareth Roberts scripts, but I suspect Moffat
1:51:29
had a stronger hand in this. I don't think so.
1:51:32
So here. Clara the control freak, Can't
1:51:34
keep Ball had played spinning, which is a satisfying place for
1:51:36
this story. I could go.
1:51:38
The Skovo Splitzer is deliberately rubbish, the ROM
1:51:42
com less so. I mean, I don't want to be too
1:51:45
controversial, but I think Moffett and Gatius by his side
1:51:48
are two of the most conservative Doctor Who writers you're ever
1:51:52
going to find. Lest we not forget, he murders
1:51:55
the two black companions he introduces.
1:51:59
David Gillespie Pratt says. One of the absolute worst
1:52:03
episodes of all time. I didn't want to waste my time
1:52:05
on it so ChatGPT to write a scathing tweet and it wasn't
1:52:10
harsh enough. So I'll put simply, bin the
1:52:12
fucker. Oh well, said David.
1:52:15
Derelict Randall says suffer from that soldiers a scum Dr.
1:52:18
Some funny moments but the direction isn't my taste.
1:52:21
The alien was rather dodgy space precinct.
1:52:24
The legs didn't convince. I'm surprised that I like
1:52:26
Courtney Woods, but I really do. Paul Quinn says dog shit the
1:52:30
doctor is racist because that's how the he can't be a math
1:52:34
teacher because he was in the army comes across which may be
1:52:37
the most offensive thing in new who.
1:52:40
All Crassus says would have sat better in the Sarah Jane
1:52:42
Adventures whilst the Doctor turns up the cuntish behaviour.
1:52:45
I was willing Danny Pink to lamp him one plus an annoying kid.
1:52:50
Oh Crass, we don't want all this racism in The Sarah Jane
1:52:52
Adventures. Good grief.
1:52:56
Clara's double life is farcical 1.
1:52:58
The Scobop Blitzer is like a Dalek ordered from Wish.
1:53:01
But the animosity between Danny and the Doctor is just horrible.
1:53:05
I think they're supposed to be going for two traumatized
1:53:07
soldiers butting heads, but they end up being less mature than
1:53:10
school kids. Good premise, but bin.
1:53:13
Tom Taylor says the idea of Capaldi being a disgruntled
1:53:15
presence behind the scenes is funny on paper, but it doesn't
1:53:18
quite work. The robot isn't very good
1:53:20
either. Jim Allenby a funny premise, but
1:53:23
the friction between the Doctor and Danny leaves a sour taste in
1:53:26
my mouth. Sometimes the Doctor can be a
1:53:27
Dick, and that's fine. Sometimes he can be a massive
1:53:30
Dick and that's not fine. Donald says I rarely call for a
1:53:34
bin, but this has got to go in across various media.
1:53:37
It's the fifth time Gareth Roberts has written the Doctor
1:53:40
doing domesticity and between the casting and The Doctor's
1:53:43
attitude to Danny, it all makes the Doctor look racist.
1:53:46
Daniel Romney's Daniel Romsley says a lot funnier than I
1:53:50
remember. Would be mightily improved with
1:53:52
a quark instead of the Skovots, blah blah.
1:53:55
What's it? But that quiet night time scene
1:53:57
where Danny calls Clara out for keeping secrets from him and
1:54:00
asks her upfront while she travels with the Doctor is
1:54:03
surprisingly well handled. It almost belongs in a different
1:54:06
story. Daniel Knight says the Doctor
1:54:08
Clara Danny love triangle reaches its low point with a
1:54:10
dull subplot about an ineffective, silly monster.
1:54:13
Oh well, next week we're on the moon.
1:54:15
Things are looking up big. Orange Michael says.
1:54:19
That important episode that sets up the second-half of the
1:54:21
season. I found it pretty good at the
1:54:23
time and I stand by it. Keep it.
1:54:26
Luxin, Jenkins says. I don't give a single shit about
1:54:28
this Doctor Clary, Danny storyline.
1:54:30
Terrible. Bennett, Kev.
1:54:32
Blower. Abysmal.
1:54:34
The moth trope of a robot computer still carrying out its
1:54:37
orders long after its time is now tiresome. the PE teacher
1:54:41
joke? Grace, especially as his best
1:54:43
friend the Brig became a maths teacher.
1:54:45
Oh. Yeah, we forgot that bit, didn't
1:54:46
we, Joe? Llewellyn said.
1:54:48
I did like Danny's confrontation with the Doctor and the TARDIS.
1:54:51
Probably Danny's best bit. The rest was nothing special.
1:54:54
And finally Trey DW says I love how the Doctor acts in this
1:54:58
episode and the Doctor, Clara and Danny are all great
1:55:02
together. Humans are not otters is still
1:55:04
one of the best lines of the era I.
1:55:08
Think the jury's probably out on that one, Ken.
1:55:11
I can see you having shaken your head at me many times during
1:55:15
that. You look very upset and very
1:55:17
despondent. Please defend he's.
1:55:19
The only man. To do a Gareth Roberts book for
1:55:23
the book club, all right. Right.
1:55:26
I am going to come out swinging for this one.
1:55:28
I loved it. It's one of the three in this
1:55:33
series I absolutely adore. We've already done Deep Breath.
1:55:38
We're not doing Mummy on the Orange Express, we are doing
1:55:41
this. I love it.
1:55:43
It is nothing to do with the Skovox Blitzer.
1:55:46
That is a, shall we say, unfortunate wibbly wobbly
1:55:53
design. They could have got Jimmy V into
1:55:56
something a little bit better than something on legs that's
1:56:02
clearly being pulled along on string.
1:56:05
Let's put that to one side. It is nothing to do with that
1:56:08
thing at all. I didn't like the idea of it
1:56:10
being a quark. That would have been quite good.
1:56:13
But. Why am just remembering this?
1:56:15
Didn't Gareth Roberts want it to be a mechanoid?
1:56:18
From the 1st. Draft.
1:56:19
Really. It's the same man, remember, who
1:56:22
wanted Meg Loss in The Lodger? Yeah.
1:56:24
It could have been. Could have been.
1:56:26
I'm pretty. Sure, that's that was an
1:56:27
original, you know, on his original thoughts anyway.
1:56:32
Yeah. Has he been to school recently?
1:56:33
The doors are slightly narrower than a mecanoid, I know.
1:56:36
But wouldn't that have been? I mean, I would have made this I
1:56:39
think. It's an interesting idea, but
1:56:44
Doctor Who in school, it works. It just, I don't know why it
1:56:48
works. I don't know why the doctor
1:56:49
being certainly the 12th doctor anywhere near a school just
1:56:54
works. And and so I like that as a
1:56:58
premise that he's trying to blend in, being completely
1:57:01
hopeless at it. Yes, Rod, I take your point.
1:57:05
What the Hell's the scene of the ladder all about?
1:57:06
He's brandishing some sort of wire as if he's fixing
1:57:10
something. But clearly that I'll give you,
1:57:15
but it could well be the the whole design of the building.
1:57:19
It could well be the Cole Hill from Remembrance of the Daleks.
1:57:22
It fits in very well with that. The whole idea of being Artron
1:57:27
Ng around the school. He's been there enough.
1:57:30
It's and it ties in also with class.
1:57:34
So there's lots of logical reasons why Cole Hill has become
1:57:40
an attractive magnet for the Skovox.
1:57:43
But. He's I think.
1:57:44
Tying in with class is a plus point.
1:57:48
Do you? Know I'm going to get into
1:57:49
class, but I'll I'm going to give plus a little bit of its
1:57:54
Jews. I never got into it.
1:57:55
I don't think I was the target audience, but it was treated
1:57:59
abysmally as a spin off. I mean, it was released.
1:58:03
Was it all at once online and then it didn't get ABBC 3 and
1:58:08
then it was shunted into some death slot at 20 to midnight or
1:58:11
something? It didn't stand a chance.
1:58:14
It didn't stand a chance. Help us it was.
1:58:16
Some weird Poundland hybrid between Buffy and Hollyoaks
1:58:20
though as well I. Saw the first couple, I thought
1:58:26
the sort of Capaldi smoothing your way into it was a nice
1:58:28
thing. The only trouble with that is,
1:58:30
as Taryn Sticks, we'll put it, it's Doctor Who without the
1:58:33
Doctor and all of a sudden you're left with this Doctor
1:58:37
shaped hole in it. So yeah, that class aside.
1:58:43
But then I've never I've never quite got the hatred on Danny
1:58:48
Pink. I think all these characters
1:58:49
actually behave in character. They they behave as these people
1:58:55
would. The Doctor, burning underneath
1:58:58
it, is jealous of Clara. He he wants.
1:59:04
That. Clara Affection, Attention.
1:59:07
All of a sudden somebody is getting that attention.
1:59:12
He's. Happy when it's Adrian because,
1:59:14
ah, that's sort of me. So she still likes me, really.
1:59:20
I can deal with that. It's a soldier.
1:59:24
Don't like soldiers in this incarnation?
1:59:26
There, there we go. I don't the the racism aspect.
1:59:31
Let's get this out of the way very briefly.
1:59:33
I think there's a lot of reading into Doctor Who and I think
1:59:38
there's a lot of, in fact, no, I think there's a lot of reading
1:59:40
into things in the 21st century in general that aren't
1:59:45
necessarily there. I'd never seen it as a racism
1:59:48
thing. I.
1:59:49
Think there is a tendency nowadays in general, if you
1:59:55
disagree with someone who is not white, not straight, not a
2:00:00
certain orientation, you are or you can be pegged as a bigot, a
2:00:06
misogynist, a racist, a phobe. I think there is a general
2:00:11
tendency to immediately peg something with a label as a not
2:00:18
an argument. But that ends that you are that
2:00:21
and I don't think that life's. Quite that binary and I think
2:00:27
it's a little bit of a a get out.
2:00:30
You must not criticize that person of color, that gay man,
2:00:35
that a trans woman, etcetera, whatever it is because you are a
2:00:41
phobe or an IST. So I've I've never read into it.
2:00:44
I take the point. Go on, Joe.
2:00:46
Well, it. Might be as well.
2:00:47
I think that some people look for problematic readings in
2:00:52
episodes written by Gareth Roberts because.
2:00:54
That is true I. Think he has exposed himself to
2:00:57
be a man of troubling opinions, and I think a lot of people
2:01:01
think that. And so I think maybe people sort
2:01:03
of scrutinize this stuff more. All I'll say is, is the fact
2:01:08
that he didn't have an issue with the white teacher and he
2:01:11
did have an issue with the black teacher.
2:01:13
That felt racist to me. And I was, I take the Reed.
2:01:17
Oh, sorry. Go on.
2:01:18
No. I was just going to say I
2:01:19
completely, I Joe's reading on it completely complies with how
2:01:23
I'm seeing it as well. And, and Kenny said, oh, the
2:01:26
Doctor's jealous and he wants Clara, but he's happy if she
2:01:29
goes off with Adrian but not with Danny.
2:01:32
That doesn't make much sense to me because if you're looking at
2:01:34
as an audience member, fine. You know, I want, I don't want
2:01:38
my husband to go off with anybody, but if he goes off with
2:01:42
somebody I dislike, I'm going to be cross.
2:01:44
Last year. But if he goes off with someone
2:01:48
that looks a bit like me, Oh, that's all right then.
2:01:50
That just that doesn't work as a reading.
2:01:53
I don't understand how we can be fine with Adrian but not with
2:01:55
Danny, unless there's something more fundamental going on there.
2:01:59
Just saying he looks like him just doesn't.
2:02:01
Just doesn't wash. Well, no, but I, I, it's very
2:02:04
clear that he sees Adrian as an avatar of his younger self, so I
2:02:11
don't think it would make any difference whether Danny was
2:02:14
white, black or other. He wouldn't like him.
2:02:17
I have never once taken skin colour into it.
2:02:20
It never once came into any of the scripts and it never once
2:02:25
was a thing. I think we were way, way beyond
2:02:29
skin colour even by the time Doctor Who came back in 2005.
2:02:34
It's Doctor Who has always been very, very sensitive when it
2:02:39
handles racism. There was the probably the most
2:02:42
direct was in Battlefield when in a moment of controlled sort
2:02:48
of behaviour, Ace calls, I can't remember her name, a yellow
2:02:53
slang tied. Yeah.
2:02:55
And it was immediately, immediately there was that snap
2:03:00
out of it. What the hell this is this is
2:03:03
wrong. This is wrong.
2:03:04
There's a bit in power of Kroll, a very throwaway line where
2:03:08
they're on about the Swampy's and the doctor just turned
2:03:11
around and said, well, doesn't he count that one tiny little
2:03:14
fragment? So racism has been very
2:03:17
delicately handled. It's just never been my reading
2:03:21
in new Who, unless it has been explicitly referenced.
2:03:26
Bill Potts. Brilliant.
2:03:28
The magnificent Bill Potts. She skewed it a Nipson.
2:03:32
Hole blown in her chest as well, doesn't she?
2:03:36
But again, you I. Don't.
2:03:38
Think you've mentioned it? Pick.
2:03:40
Up a gun and shoot him. Oh God.
2:03:42
I mean someone, no. I know, but I know that you
2:03:44
you've mentioned there briefly, Joe, about the two black
2:03:47
companions in the Moffat era have been killed, but you care
2:03:51
about them, you. But whereas when Clara gets a
2:03:55
Raven through a chest you know down well in 30 seconds, poof,
2:03:59
she'll. Be back.
2:04:00
To life get your. Argument, but it's flawed
2:04:03
because, well, that's Clara, so why would we care about but.
2:04:07
Everybody is go on. I think the other problem with
2:04:10
this is he's pinning his animosity on Danny because he's
2:04:13
a soldier, but because that's never been grounded in anything.
2:04:17
If he was a murderer, to take an extreme example, then we'd
2:04:21
understand it. The Doctor doesn't want Clara
2:04:23
going off with the murderer, but just using this kind of very
2:04:26
superficial line of, oh, he's a soldier, so he must be APE
2:04:29
teacher. That doesn't ring true.
2:04:31
So you do tend to look, there must be something else more.
2:04:34
There must be something more to it, because that just doesn't
2:04:37
ring true. Yeah.
2:04:38
We. Are all viewing this through?
2:04:40
We're all white men, and we're all viewing this through white
2:04:44
men's eyes. I do wonder if I was a black man
2:04:47
watching this episode. Yeah, I could see it.
2:04:50
I could, yeah. I could see it.
2:04:52
The truth is, I think, you know, this, this this came out before
2:04:56
a lot of Gareth Roberts unpleasantness was was revealed.
2:05:00
And I know there were people kind of raising concerns at the
2:05:03
time, because I don't think it's much a case if we can't
2:05:06
criticize somebody because of their skin colour.
2:05:09
He's not criticizing anything about him other than making a
2:05:11
massive generalization, which is a generalization about soldiers,
2:05:15
which is close to making a generalization about somebody
2:05:18
due to their their skin colour. And there are, you know, kind of
2:05:21
stereotypes about kind of black men and sports and things like
2:05:24
that as well, which that I don't think there's any intention to
2:05:27
be racist, but it's unfortunately, I think it
2:05:30
unfortunately plays into that. And, and in the wider context of
2:05:34
Doctor, it's unfortunate that the two characters that the
2:05:38
Doctor is most unpleasant to are Mickey and Danny.
2:05:42
And in between we've had Rory, who he was perfectly pleasant
2:05:45
to. So I think it's a bad look but,
2:05:48
and I don't think there is an intention there, but I think
2:05:51
he'd inadvertently comes across very, very disappointingly on
2:05:55
the part of the doctor. The other soldier, he was a bit
2:05:58
mean to this year. That was Journey Blue.
2:06:00
It was also a person of colour. It just, it looks unfortunate.
2:06:03
You start looking at things and it looks unfortunate.
2:06:06
I don't think it's deliberate, but I can, no.
2:06:08
I don't think it's deliberate. I can.
2:06:09
See how it is utterly thoughtless as well?
2:06:11
Yeah. I think I will just say this
2:06:13
much though, the the characters I'd I've never taken this
2:06:17
reading on it. It's it's certainly a different
2:06:19
slant and food for thought. But I will say this much about
2:06:23
the black characters in knew who you care about them.
2:06:27
Every single one. You care about them.
2:06:30
You like them and you're sad when they're gone.
2:06:33
Martha Bill Journey Danny. Well, I I was upset when Danny
2:06:39
you know what happens to him later in the series.
2:06:43
Martha was wonderful. Mickey Mickey is this redemption
2:06:46
from this Burke into this really heartfelt character in series 2.
2:06:54
And then he comes back later on and and it's all smiles happy
2:06:58
days. So as a.
2:06:59
Bit of a soldier though. With a big gun assault.
2:07:02
Yes, but he gets Martha. You've got to be.
2:07:05
Honest, though, right? Like writing out Mickey in a in
2:07:08
a blaze of glory and writing out Martha as a in a triumphant
2:07:13
moment of do you know what? You're not actually good enough
2:07:15
for me. Tara is a lot more positive than
2:07:21
throwing one in front of a car and blowing a hole in the other
2:07:23
one's chest. Yeah.
2:07:27
But all the Moffer companions end up dead in some way, don't
2:07:30
they they? Do in Moffett Who until they're
2:07:32
brought back to life again. Which I think Simon Exton has
2:07:35
put it in IT. D's era they were
2:07:39
indestructible. In the Moffett era, they're
2:07:42
fucking immortal. I know they all come back in
2:07:46
weird science fiction ways that emotionally, I just don't know
2:07:50
how I'm supposed to feel about, you know, the puddle and going
2:07:53
off in the diner. Like OK, I.
2:07:56
Think these are characters that I've all.
2:07:57
Liked, but I've I've wanted them to be saved and then I've seen
2:08:00
them saved. I think there's a as a
2:08:02
bloodthirsty element to Doctor Who found sometimes and I go,
2:08:04
no, kill them and, and keep them dead.
2:08:06
Whereas I think for me, I want the doctor to be this
2:08:09
incredible, impossible hero that can do what we can't do in real
2:08:13
life and, and, and bring people back and that kind of thing.
2:08:15
Unless it's AB trick he can stay.
2:08:18
Dead, although even he didn't stay dead.
2:08:21
Yeah, I've got. The.
2:08:25
Back to the. Back to the Caretaker, I just
2:08:29
very, very much loved the characterisation in this.
2:08:32
The characters behaved how they would in real life.
2:08:35
Danny was just completely what the hell?
2:08:38
You know what's going on? Something's on with this guy.
2:08:39
I'm going to what's all these little green flashing lights
2:08:43
everywhere? What the hell is this guy up to?
2:08:44
I must find out. And then completely bogus things
2:08:48
up. The doctor's angry that this
2:08:51
thing, that he's his carefully crafted plan has been buggered
2:08:54
up by somebody well meaning that makes him even more annoyed.
2:08:59
Then he there's a situation he's completely misread, he's even
2:09:02
more annoyed. But it's all the character
2:09:05
piece. It's all the characters getting
2:09:07
to know each other. And on picking, it's really a
2:09:10
bridge episode because by the time you get to mummy on the
2:09:13
Orient Express and and kill the moon with the moon's a fucking
2:09:18
egg. Oh no, no, we're not on that.
2:09:20
We're not on that. But at the end of that, Clara,
2:09:24
Yeah. I've just had enough of you.
2:09:26
I've had enough of this. I'm going.
2:09:28
I've got a boyfriend. I don't need your crap anymore.
2:09:32
And it's all this unpicking all the way through the series.
2:09:35
But this is where it really starts because Danny's been in
2:09:39
it up to this point. Clara has been sort of hiding in
2:09:42
the background that there's this relationship going on with
2:09:45
Danny. This is the one where it all
2:09:47
explodes and then sets up the second-half of the series.
2:09:51
And for all the criticisms, and I've listened to what you've all
2:09:55
had to say, they're valid. But I just think the
2:09:58
characterization, the character piece of this is a real good
2:10:01
springboard for what's to come. Because by the time you get to
2:10:07
Death in Heaven and Deep Water, you really give a shit about
2:10:10
Danny. Whereas before he's been a bit
2:10:14
of a background character up to now.
2:10:16
Do you though? Do you give a shit about Danny?
2:10:19
Come well. I did.
2:10:20
I, I honestly, I was really sad to see Danny go.
2:10:24
Can I just ask one final question?
2:10:26
If it's the characters are so, you know, on point.
2:10:29
The doctor's super intelligent. What's he going to do?
2:10:32
Scovox Blitzer can destroy the planet.
2:10:35
What's he going to do? Oh, that's right.
2:10:36
Let's draw it into a school where there are lots of
2:10:39
children. Oh.
2:10:41
No, I'm totally behind that. That's a very sound choice.
2:10:44
Have you seen the monsters we bridge these days?
2:10:47
Joe, you're right. Sorry, I take that back you.
2:10:50
Know I was watching children of earth episode 4 going that's not
2:10:53
a bad idea do you know? Only 10% mark, over to you.
2:11:00
Yeah, I, I do actually like the characters, so I'm not coming in
2:11:04
from that point of view, but I, I, I would be in this episode.
2:11:07
And I think it's the only one really out of these six that
2:11:10
I've been because I, for me, the comedy doesn't work.
2:11:13
The the characters are for me are stretched a little bit too
2:11:16
far, like you say, out of where they should be.
2:11:19
The the Doctor in particular, I, I just feel like he should be
2:11:24
above quite a lot of this sort of stuff.
2:11:26
Like why is he, why does he care about or he shouldn't care for
2:11:31
me about Clara and Danny's relationship and that kind of
2:11:34
really pleading. When, when does does Clara say
2:11:36
she says she loves him? And Clara was saying, oh, why
2:11:39
would you say Doctor? Why would you say that?
2:11:41
Why would you say that and that kind of thing.
2:11:43
You just think I kind of don't like any of that stuff.
2:11:45
I do. I do like the opening, as you
2:11:47
say. I actually do like the scene
2:11:48
with the Matt Smith looking Doctor when the doctor just kind
2:11:52
of smiles to himself and goes ah, I see that's I think that is
2:11:55
quite funny because it. Reminds you of happier days,
2:11:58
there's. Yeah, there's the, I think for
2:12:03
me, what I, I came away from this episode, I remember
2:12:05
watching it and thinking, oh, we're going to get a recreation
2:12:09
of the original TARDIS crew here.
2:12:11
Because we're going to have, we're going to have two Coal
2:12:13
Hill teachers and Courtney as a, as a Coal Hill student.
2:12:17
And that's, that's what how this series is going to kind of
2:12:20
coalesce, which I maybe would have liked for a couple of
2:12:23
episodes, I think, because you'd have had everyone pulling in a
2:12:27
different direction and Danny kind of not wanting to be there.
2:12:30
Clara, again, a thrill of the adventure.
2:12:32
Courtney is like a really fun character.
2:12:34
And she just kind of, you know, questioning everything, being
2:12:37
cheeky and that kind of thing. So that there was an interesting
2:12:40
direction it could have taken at that point.
2:12:42
But yeah, I don't like the score box, score box Blitzer.
2:12:46
Maybe it would have been more fun if it was a Mackinac.
2:12:50
It's it's it's, it's a prop that I don't know if anyone made it
2:12:52
to that Worlds of Wonder exhibition, but it's it's, it's,
2:12:56
it's making its way around the world with that as well.
2:12:59
And it's just unimpressive. It's one.
2:13:00
Of those props that you see in the museum and it looks more
2:13:03
impressive than in the episode or not.
2:13:05
It it looks about as impressive, I think it's not not very, very
2:13:09
impressive, not very impressive at all.
2:13:10
Of all the things they could have kind of dusted off that
2:13:12
they used to have at the the Doctor Who experience.
2:13:16
Yeah, it's a, it's a pretty kind of an inspiring looking looking
2:13:19
thing. So yeah, it's just just, for me,
2:13:21
it's an unengaging story. The whole invisibility thing
2:13:24
just seems like it's a, it's for there for comedy purposes, but
2:13:28
it's not very funny. Why?
2:13:29
Why doesn't the Doctor always use a watch that turns him
2:13:31
invisible? It would be super handy all the
2:13:33
time. So yeah, the yeah, it's for me.
2:13:36
It'd be a bin. And of course, the casting vote.
2:13:40
Well, just before you do that Mark, I noticed Danny doesn't
2:13:44
give him the watch back. He can still be there, yeah.
2:13:50
It's a thief as well. Sorry.
2:13:55
Do you know another prop that looked that actually did look
2:13:58
more impressive than it did in the episode was that sleep
2:14:00
monster from Sleep No More. When that was sort of the Doctor
2:14:02
experience all lit in a Moody way.
2:14:04
It looked fabulous. I haven't seen the Scabots
2:14:07
Blitzer though, and I will say that is my start off at 10.
2:14:10
As to why this is the worst episode of the season.
2:14:13
Pull our country mile. I mean, I do do that impression
2:14:17
every time he's on the screen. I sort of waddle along like
2:14:19
what's that robot called in Buck Rogers wiki?
2:14:22
Twiki. More menacing than the Skogot's
2:14:25
blitzer, he looks like a pound shop cleaning robot from
2:14:29
Paradise Towers. He's.
2:14:30
Metal Mickey. Terrible.
2:14:33
The most. Was it deadliest killing machine
2:14:35
in the Galaxy? Oh dear.
2:14:39
Let's move on from that quickly. The Clara Danny relationship.
2:14:43
Yeah, zero chemistry, 0 interest, 0 heat.
2:14:49
I don't sizzle at any point. I think it is one of the most
2:14:53
boring couples I have ever endured on television.
2:14:56
I don't understand why they're together.
2:15:00
I don't think they don't act as if they really like each other
2:15:03
very much. Their relationship causes issues
2:15:07
in other parts of their life. And I just want to they're,
2:15:11
they're so fucking hot. Jenna Coleman.
2:15:13
And what's his name? Samuel Anderson, they're.
2:15:16
So beautiful. That should sizzle.
2:15:19
Go and watch something like Star Trek Discovery with Michael
2:15:24
Burnham and her hot boyfriend and that, fuck me, they're
2:15:27
basically making love every time they look at each other in every
2:15:30
scene, it's sizzles, these two, It's like a limp lettuce on the
2:15:34
screen. There's no heat at all.
2:15:37
There's a scene in the middle of this where she reminds of its
2:15:40
parents even in the next day, right?
2:15:43
And they're like an old married couple that have been together
2:15:46
for 40 years and have forgotten how to communicate with each
2:15:49
other. And this is the opening salvo of
2:15:52
their relationship. You know, we've all had
2:15:55
relationships. Yeah.
2:15:56
We were all tearing the clothes off those people, weren't we?
2:15:59
For the first year in every room of the house, you know, outside
2:16:02
on top of buildings. Or was that just me?
2:16:04
I don't know. But anyway, I just don't.
2:16:06
I don't buy it at all. I don't understand why this
2:16:10
approach was the approach they took.
2:16:12
Because Danny Pink, the second he goes.
2:16:14
Do you know what? Travelling the universe.
2:16:16
And that's how hard it is. Oh, it's all a bit March.
2:16:19
How tedious. Well, why do we like, why do we
2:16:22
want to hang out with this character then?
2:16:23
Because it's something we want to do more in that.
2:16:25
And the fact that he wants to take the companion away from
2:16:29
that live. He doesn't say that, but
2:16:32
basically saying it's me or the TARDIS.
2:16:34
And that's, I don't know, it's just doesn't work at all.
2:16:39
And I think Sammy Anderson struggles with the little
2:16:41
character that he's given. I think he's just a bit of a
2:16:44
blank slate on the screen. But mostly I don't like this
2:16:48
because of what Mark said. The comedy just doesn't land.
2:16:51
Like farce is something you have to put a lot of time and effort
2:16:55
in to get right, and Doctor Who can do it.
2:17:00
You're going to think I'm mad, but the narrows it down sequence
2:17:03
in World War Three where they're taken out the Slovene in the
2:17:09
flat and and we're cutting back to the room and the dialogue's
2:17:13
fast. We're cutting back and forth and
2:17:16
the jokes are coming thick and fast.
2:17:17
That's how you do fast. Jesus Christ, the parents
2:17:20
evening in this. It is so flat, isn't it?
2:17:24
The jokes are so lame. The weight that we saw in robots
2:17:28
Sherwood has been completely deserted at this point.
2:17:30
The lines just aren't funny and everyone looks really awkward
2:17:34
playing those scenes as well. I think it who directed this?
2:17:36
I think it might be the director's fault.
2:17:38
Paul Murphy, the same guy who who directed Robot a show.
2:17:43
Jeez, maybe it's the scripts fault then, who knows.
2:17:48
And just a Doctor in in a series of episodes where he comes
2:17:52
across as a prick. This is the quickest I think the
2:17:56
Doctor has ever been in the series ever.
2:17:59
Ever. Classical new.
2:18:00
You're right Mark, he should be above all of this.
2:18:03
He comes across as a petulant, irritating, jealous child.
2:18:08
And why would we ever go there, Bin?
2:18:12
No caretaker fall. Sorry, Ken.
2:18:15
I'm pleased somebody, I'm pleased somebody gave it a
2:18:18
positive reading though. I am pleased.
2:18:22
So Mark, over to you for your second choice.
2:18:24
We're left with Lesson and Time Heist.
2:18:27
Well, listen was the the story. I was most excited to revisit
2:18:32
them in preparation for this podcast because it's it's one of
2:18:35
my all time favourites. I think it's just brilliant.
2:18:37
I think it's Stephen Moffat doing one of the things that he
2:18:40
does best, which is tapping into childhood kind of fears and
2:18:45
things, you know, like big shadows with the Vashta Narada
2:18:49
monsters under the bed. It's it's a brilliant thing to
2:18:53
tap into as well. He did that a little bit in the
2:18:55
girl in the fireplace with the when the Droid grabs Renet.
2:19:00
It's one of the few kind of jump scares in Doctor Who, isn't it?
2:19:03
So I think, you know, we've kind of realized how successful that
2:19:05
was and expands on it here. And it's, it's just, it's just
2:19:11
kind of so clever because if for everything that happens, there
2:19:14
is a logical explanation or there's the Doctor's theory that
2:19:20
there is this race of perfect hiding aliens and you kind of
2:19:25
just left to make up your own mind at the end of it might be
2:19:28
interesting to see what we all think.
2:19:30
I don't think there is any aliens, but I think there's kind
2:19:32
of particularly the new series, like say we don't have kind of
2:19:36
pure historicals or anything anymore.
2:19:38
Wherever they land, there's always an alien.
2:19:40
So you're kind of looking for that.
2:19:43
But I, yeah, I I think it's, it's kind of leading you down
2:19:49
that path, but there but there isn't anything it's.
2:19:51
Creepier, You know, if it's just a kid under that bed because
2:19:54
you're really creepy. That scene is incredible.
2:19:59
Watching it again, I still the hairs in the back of my neck
2:20:02
still stood up watching that scene.
2:20:04
It's so well directed. It's absolutely brilliant.
2:20:09
The acting and everything is is fantastic in there.
2:20:11
It's it's. It's brilliant.
2:20:15
And there's a lot of, you know, I know we've been talking a lot
2:20:19
about parallels and mirroring and stuff and the way that Danny
2:20:22
here is set up as a mirror of the Doctor.
2:20:24
You know, it seems like they're both spent time in some kind of
2:20:27
like boys home or children's home when they were younger.
2:20:30
They've both chosen their own name because Danny was
2:20:32
originally Rupert. You know, the both had Clara
2:20:36
kind of imprint on them at an early age and given the idea of
2:20:39
the soldier without the gun and, and all that kind of stuff,
2:20:43
which is, you know, Joe, you mentioned about, you know, Clara
2:20:46
becoming the Doctor. That's, that's kind of a Doctor
2:20:48
thing to do. You know, you met Amy when she
2:20:50
was very young and Kaz ran in in the Christmas Carol and that
2:20:54
kind of thing. So this is Clara kind of doing
2:20:56
that, that Doctor thing of, of meeting people and they're young
2:20:58
and having an influence on them. Yeah, it it also, I love the
2:21:01
stuff there's. You know, we want the Doctor's
2:21:03
origins to be mysterious, but do we do get those little hints
2:21:06
about his past? And what this made me think of
2:21:10
was in It's a Time monster, isn't it, where the Doctor talks
2:21:14
about his blackest day in his childhood?
2:21:17
And that kind of really resonated.
2:21:19
I think when I watched this one, it made me think, did he lose
2:21:23
his parents? And that's why he's in this kind
2:21:26
of seems to be in some kind of children's form or some kind of
2:21:29
institution that's got the barn next to it.
2:21:32
You know, in the future, only the barn survives.
2:21:34
I thought we just. They just shoved him in the
2:21:36
barn. Yeah, it's like a Harry Potter
2:21:39
type thing instead of he's got. No parents, you know, put him in
2:21:42
the bowl and. Then the girl in the fireplace
2:21:45
when, when Renee goes into his mind and says, oh, you know,
2:21:48
he's such a lonely little boy and and all that kind of stuff.
2:21:51
So I think those little hints about his childhood, one of the
2:21:55
reason I don't really like the timeless child thing, because it
2:21:57
just seemed to overwrite all of that, all of that previous
2:22:01
stuff. And then the the host, the thing
2:22:05
about fear about fear is a superpower and it makes you
2:22:08
stronger and faster and clever. I kind of think it's an
2:22:11
interesting juxtaposition with Star Wars where you order says
2:22:14
fear is after the dark side because fear leads to anger and
2:22:17
anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering and
2:22:19
everything. But then kind of Star Wars isn't
2:22:22
scary and Doctor Who is so kind of have to put a positive spin
2:22:26
on it and Doctor Who. And I like that the idea, you
2:22:28
know, kind of the adrenaline and everything like that, that it's,
2:22:30
it's OK to be scared. It's not not the path to the
2:22:33
dark side. It's, it's a, it's a good
2:22:35
positive thing that you can and, and they're the, they are the
2:22:38
memorable bits from Doctor Who, the scary bits.
2:22:40
And so this episode in particular I think does have the
2:22:43
scariest bit in the whole modern series with the the kid under
2:22:47
the blanket. Brilliant.
2:22:50
Let us go to our comments. Mark Donaldson says the
2:22:53
apotheosis of Moffett's combination of high concept
2:22:56
sci-fi with character LED sitcom.
2:22:59
A Doctor Who story about the fundamental primal nature of
2:23:01
fear. Whether it's fear of failure,
2:23:03
romantic rejection or the monsters banging on the doors.
2:23:07
A masterpiece, you. Can see why you podcast, can't
2:23:10
you? Yeah, listen to that comment.
2:23:11
Gareth Baley. Utter rubbish.
2:23:14
Oh Gareth, The Phantom Menace of Doctor Who the story you didn't
2:23:18
need to know the monster non existence and just a feeling
2:23:22
more Clara playing in the Doctor's past.
2:23:24
Why totally start over? Substance.
2:23:27
The ultimate pinnacle of Moffett piffle.
2:23:30
Does that mean Gareth doesn't quite like this one?
2:23:32
Yeah, I think so. Paul Cresser says another wind
2:23:36
up fest for me. Clara was now not only
2:23:38
president, present, not president, now not only present.
2:23:42
Late Trump versus Clara. Clara was not Clara.
2:23:50
Was now not only present at almost every point during the
2:23:53
Doctor's adventures in time and space, but she was now also the
2:23:56
monster under his childhood bed. Oh fuck off.
2:24:00
Oh wow, big orange, Michael. The question of what scares the
2:24:03
Doctor is intriguing, atmospheric, with some great
2:24:06
performances, and yet I don't love this one as much as others
2:24:08
do. A Doctor Who says overrated.
2:24:11
I just don't like how it goes all over the place with visiting
2:24:14
young Danny then back to a date. Feels real, but I just don't
2:24:17
like it as much as the others. Darren lit roundels, one that I
2:24:20
enjoy until the final scene, again making Clara the most
2:24:23
influential character grown. The moments that are the moments
2:24:28
are what make this story. The Pico TARDIS interior looks
2:24:31
properly gorgeous for the first time and it as it's shot with a
2:24:34
wide angle lens. Jason Thompson says an
2:24:37
interesting concept, but tying it in with Clara and Danny's
2:24:39
romance turns me right off. We also have the red flags of
2:24:42
their relationship being glossed over with time travel and the
2:24:45
toxicity of the Doctor Clara relationship coming out as he
2:24:49
makes slide comments about her face.
2:24:51
There are better ways to show he's not clued up on human
2:24:53
manners then. Can I just stop there for a
2:24:55
second? Can I just ask people's opinions
2:24:57
on this? So I always read the Doctor
2:25:00
taking the Mickey out of Clara saying oh, you've painted your
2:25:02
face or all the business wow wearing stiletted.
2:25:05
I just take that that he's teasing her.
2:25:07
I don't genuinely think that he's unaware of these things.
2:25:11
I just read that as gentle teasing.
2:25:13
But he's putting on this mock. Oh, I don't know how this works,
2:25:17
but he's so bright everywhere else.
2:25:19
He's so on it. This Doctor, I just think he's
2:25:22
teasing. Do you read that as genuine or
2:25:24
as tease? To quote.
2:25:26
That he's teasing from. He's had.
2:25:28
Many female companions. It's a joke.
2:25:32
Yeah, that's yeah. I just wanted to check is there
2:25:35
are people like Jason there that think that he's kind of just
2:25:39
making start. I just think he's just teasing
2:25:41
up. Anyway, I'm with the Commons.
2:25:42
Sorry, Joe, He's. Too busy worried about the
2:25:44
science, You know, I think it's the proper readings.
2:25:46
David Gillespie Pratt says. The scene in the orphanage with
2:25:48
the figure under the covers is genuinely chilling.
2:25:51
Moffett is trying something different here, so let's give
2:25:53
him credit for that. Until the moment that Clara
2:25:56
becomes the most important character in the Doctor's story
2:25:59
again. I mean, I don't agree with those
2:26:02
Clara comments. It does get tiresome, Tom.
2:26:05
Taylor says clever and trixy and very muffety, but it's not his
2:26:08
best work. Luke Sims, Jenkins, terrible.
2:26:11
It's Much Ado about nothing. Plus the whole Clara Danny's
2:26:14
future stuff is pointless. I'm really surprised at how
2:26:17
negative these comments I was. Just about to say, these are
2:26:19
really negative, aren't they? Daniel Walmsley says.
2:26:21
Sometimes a bit too introspective, but I love the
2:26:23
spooky atmosphere and nice to have Moffett proving he can
2:26:25
still Bill writes a story of the week.
2:26:27
The boldest sticking sect alienness and deadpan delivery
2:26:30
really help. The Danny Pink arc probably
2:26:32
peaks here. Razor Gregory.
2:26:34
Oh my God another Dodd. He says 2.
2:26:37
Tonally inconsistent. Is it a ROM com or a ghost
2:26:41
story? By trying to do both it fails
2:26:43
and ends up being a Recon pile of fan wank.
2:26:47
Which is a shame as the ghost scenes are some of the scariest
2:26:50
ever in Who. Wow.
2:26:53
These comments. Your invites to trap one have
2:26:57
been revoked. So he he's championing the
2:27:01
Caretaker and binning. OK, interesting, interesting.
2:27:05
Jack Coyer says Moffett decides to give himself an extra filler
2:27:08
episode. Except it's not that at all.
2:27:10
It's vital to the development of Clara, an exploration of how
2:27:13
this Doctor operates and framed full of Moffatisms, tiny
2:27:17
wiminess ROM com mishaps, the fears of children, and demanding
2:27:21
that we pay attention as the end wraps around to the beginning.
2:27:25
Daniel Knight says it was this episode of Friends.
2:27:28
Sorry, if this was an episode of Friends it would be called the
2:27:31
the one where the show disappears up its own arse.
2:27:34
The constant use of Clara inspiring events in the Doctor's
2:27:37
life has really worn thin and there are too many unanswered
2:27:40
questions. Oh Daniel, that is the point.
2:27:43
That is the point. We'll get there.
2:27:45
Hang on, Michael. Storm says a great little
2:27:47
chamber piece that oozes atmosphere and tension.
2:27:49
I quite like the low level ambiguity of the story.
2:27:52
The sequences on Awesome Pink Space are some of the creepiest
2:27:55
in you who keep it. Jim Allenby says one of my all
2:27:58
time favourites is uncomfortable, creepy and I love
2:28:01
that it's explained. I don't even mind that
2:28:04
unexplained to me, sometimes we don't need answers and this is
2:28:09
one of those times. I even like the little kid
2:28:11
doctor at the end and. Finally, John Arnold says the
2:28:14
highlights of this batch still perhaps skew to adult fans with
2:28:17
the relationship comedy, but a story that tells you that fear
2:28:19
can be repurposed as a superpower has a real charge for
2:28:23
younger viewers. Can I jump in here quickly?
2:28:25
Yeah. Go for it.
2:28:26
Thank. You, because I, I really take
2:28:28
exceptions to that whole unexplained answers part of
2:28:32
Daniel's comment. Now.
2:28:33
I love you, Daniel, but like, what is the worst part of every
2:28:37
horror movie? It's the end where the horror is
2:28:41
revealed. And 10 times out of 10, it's
2:28:44
really disappointing. What's scary is it's unknowable.
2:28:48
Yeah. And he taps into that in this
2:28:50
episode in such a brilliant way. And, you know, frankly, I've sat
2:28:55
through six seasons of Steven Moffett.
2:28:57
When he does give his answers at the end of seasons and episodes,
2:29:00
usually it's very, very bad indeed.
2:29:03
So for one time, for one episode, So he doesn't give us
2:29:07
any answers. He leaves it up to you.
2:29:09
And it's so much scary. The bit where the thing's
2:29:12
banging at the door in the future scenes and you just don't
2:29:16
know what that is. That's brilliant.
2:29:18
The bit with the kid under the bed.
2:29:19
You're right, Mark. It is one of the scariest scenes
2:29:22
ever in Doctor Who and just all the better for not.
2:29:25
How would that be better if they just pulled the cover off and
2:29:27
the kid went, you know, like it would be so?
2:29:31
Lame. I think this is wonderful.
2:29:34
It's I think it's the most sort of impossible to pin down Doctor
2:29:39
Who story since Ghost Light in season 26.
2:29:43
Yeah. It's brooding, it's complex,
2:29:46
it's unknowable, it's deliberately unfinished, and it
2:29:50
is all the creepier for it. Peter Capaldi is a revelation in
2:29:54
this. I think this is the sort of
2:29:56
material that he's been waiting for.
2:29:59
I will say that for his run, I think Capaldi's given material
2:30:04
worthy of his calibre as an actor, probably about for the
2:30:08
third of his run, and the rest of the time he's doing a lot of
2:30:13
heavy lifting. But this is one of those
2:30:15
occasions where he is handed a script where he can just run
2:30:19
with it. You know, he gets a chance to
2:30:21
put those eyes and teeth to sinister use.
2:30:24
He gets some to grips with some really intense material.
2:30:27
And the mood of the episode just matches that dark, rheumative,
2:30:30
rheumative disposition that the doctor's got.
2:30:33
It is only Capaldi's doctor that could appear in this episode.
2:30:37
And I think for the first time this season.
2:30:39
Like, could you imagine Matt Smith trying to play this
2:30:42
episode with this level of intensity?
2:30:44
It just would not work at all. Yeah, I did write.
2:30:49
His pomposity, prickliness and intense mood swings really
2:30:52
reminds me of Colin Baker at times, and that's why I like him
2:30:55
so much. I love Colin and I love Capaldi.
2:31:01
Yeah, I think Douglas Mckinnon's direction.
2:31:04
Where's he been hiding this? This is the man who directed
2:31:07
that shitty Sontaran 2 parter in Series 4 with all those yellow
2:31:11
and pink filters. Do you remember that terrible
2:31:13
lighting? Every scene is moodily lit and
2:31:17
filmed. Effortless scene transitions,
2:31:19
slow reveals of scares, a camera that's willing to hold onto
2:31:23
reaction shots, brightening images for long periods of time
2:31:27
to unsettle. I think half the battle with
2:31:29
horror is how it's realized, and this is the work of a suspense
2:31:34
magician. It's heerlessly directed this
2:31:37
episode and we don't credit lighting in Doctor Who enough,
2:31:41
but the lighting in this episode is sublime.
2:31:44
That TARDIS. They took out the scene with the
2:31:46
candles, didn't they? There's pictures of it.
2:31:50
I wish they kept that in. Yeah, I I really can't fault
2:31:55
this. I think for once, Moffett is not
2:31:57
Lombard with having to start and end a bloody season, which is
2:32:02
where I think he's at his weakest.
2:32:04
And he's just given himself the assignment of writing a really
2:32:08
great episode of Doctor Who mid season.
2:32:11
And this is the Steven Moffett that was there in the Rusty
2:32:14
Davis era that I fucking loved. Please let's keep this and.
2:32:23
Well, how do I follow that? The exuberance, Mr. Ford?
2:32:27
That's. Very rare that I'm not exuberant
2:32:29
about Stephen Moffett. About anything.
2:32:33
I don't think I've ever heard you rapture like that.
2:32:37
Do you need a damp cloth? You did.
2:32:39
Hear it one time. Now then, now then, boys, calm
2:32:42
down. Was.
2:32:43
That about War of the Daleks. Are.
2:32:47
We in the wrong. Direction, yeah.
2:32:51
I don't have anything as erudite as any of you've got to say, but
2:32:54
it's a definite keep for me. I can't say that it's ever been
2:32:58
one that I've gone back to or thought particularly highly of,
2:33:02
but rewatching it again, there are so many little bits in this.
2:33:07
It's like a patchwork quilt of scenes.
2:33:10
There's there's no real flow Twix.
2:33:12
It bounces around from location to location with only really
2:33:17
this tenuous thread of the threat.
2:33:20
That's not a threat that I mean, Clara, even at one point says
2:33:24
early on, have you been spending too long alone that you
2:33:28
basically the Doctor has now turned in on himself to look for
2:33:32
something to do. I do love and it fits the 12th
2:33:36
Doctor so well. The blackboard that scholarly
2:33:41
working things out with chalk from the very moment that he
2:33:44
wakes up in the bedroom. Moffett thinking, oh, Series 10,
2:33:48
we might do something with that. But it works, the whole
2:33:53
schoolmaster scholarly thing. I really like it.
2:33:57
And it is. And it is all eyes and teeth.
2:34:00
Joe, you've mentioned there about about a third of his
2:34:03
scripts were OK, possibly. I think that's a little harsh,
2:34:09
but no I. Mean, I mean, I think more of
2:34:11
the scripts are OK. I think about 1/3 of the scripts
2:34:13
gave him material that really stretched him as an actor.
2:34:17
The rest of the time he was sort of, he could have just winged
2:34:19
it. He didn't, but it wasn't
2:34:21
stretching him in a way it could.
2:34:23
But that's Capaldi though, isn't it?
2:34:24
I mean, you could give. He is the sort of actor you
2:34:26
really do need to. You've got this.
2:34:29
There's very few of that calibre.
2:34:32
But, and I've said that this many times before, you could put
2:34:35
the most incredible dirge in front of that man and get him to
2:34:38
say the lines. You would still be completely
2:34:40
captivated by what's on screen. And I think the same is true of
2:34:46
people, you know, David Tennant, Matt Smith, probably Eccleston
2:34:51
if I'm honest, the only real Dodds that they couldn't lift
2:34:57
off the page. I really didn't enjoy sleeping
2:34:58
no more and in the night garden or whatever.
2:35:01
That was fucking cool. I I just whatever it was called,
2:35:05
it just did don't. Take your medication, kitties.
2:35:09
What were they thinking again? I There's a reason I've never
2:35:14
had kids in the night garden was that was why I.
2:35:18
What a shame we're not covering that.
2:35:20
Annabelle, where have you been? You, you're breaking up.
2:35:25
So. So that but this episode it's
2:35:30
that fear that unknowable, and you're entirely right.
2:35:34
All of you are entirely right. This this it's not revealed.
2:35:38
You get the vaguest blurry glimpse of the thing when it's
2:35:43
on the bed and pulls off the red blanket, but it's never in sharp
2:35:47
focus. You get that one.
2:35:49
That's it. That's all you get.
2:35:52
And again, you can support it to the end of time with with the
2:35:56
knock on the the midnight scenario again.
2:35:59
And then Orson Pink, he's please don't let me stay here another
2:36:03
night. He's.
2:36:05
Terrified. And that fear conveys to the
2:36:09
viewer. Can I?
2:36:11
Right, we'll put you in the TARDIS.
2:36:12
Nothing can get you in here. But.
2:36:14
You don't fully believe that you can't get him in there, so it's
2:36:18
still not you. Just all the time waiting for
2:36:22
Orson Pink to be killed off by whatever this thing is.
2:36:28
And then at the end, I know it's been derided, but Clara under
2:36:32
the bed of the 1st Doctor. Now I'm going to take the
2:36:36
opportunity, since it's been brought up, to really stick the
2:36:40
knife in, give it a good twist, and hurl the timeless children
2:36:45
into the Satan Pit to be chewed up by that monster from 1:00.
2:36:50
Ear to another. Nope, shout out and then put
2:36:55
through the black hole into another black hole.
2:36:58
I absolutely detest what the Timeless Children did to the
2:37:03
Doctor. It turned this Academy loser
2:37:09
adventurer into a God, and I detest that because the whole
2:37:16
point of Doctor Who is that the Doctor, effectively he's a
2:37:20
nobody. He was a complete failure on his
2:37:23
own planet. He didn't do well at the
2:37:25
Academy, He ran away. He didn't fit in.
2:37:28
He just, all he wanted to do was go and find out and explore and
2:37:33
expand his own knowledge against a backdrop of of dull men in
2:37:38
robes. That's what the Doctor is.
2:37:42
He is the underdog. He is the underdog fighting for
2:37:45
the underdog. So to see the young Doctor in
2:37:50
bed, terrified, crying, and then the ankle grip, that's part of
2:37:56
the basis of his fear. That's through all these
2:37:59
regenerations. It's clearly been there on some
2:38:02
level. One night he's taking a
2:38:04
blackboard and some chalk and tried to work it out.
2:38:07
I love all that he's. Never stated it is the first
2:38:10
doctor. Why couldn't it just been the
2:38:11
first Timeless Child Doctor? You're breaking up.
2:38:15
He's a very bad line, Joe. But also as well, I've just
2:38:19
really quickly want to say I don't think it does contradict
2:38:22
the Doctor being a madman in a box asshole.
2:38:26
Because the Doctor unwillingly is the Timeless Child and
2:38:30
there's there's no point where that character is mythologised
2:38:33
like that. It's basically what they took
2:38:35
away from the character. The timeline runs as it always
2:38:38
did. Can we leave Chipmunk please?
2:38:41
Come back some Moffett. Let's leave Chip.
2:38:45
It's a peculiarly new, serious problem, though, that they're
2:38:48
trying to add layers. And Moffett did do it as well as
2:38:52
anyone else. Cartmel did it as well.
2:38:54
You know, try to turn him into this great God, the other.
2:38:57
Oh thank God they took that out though, that one line.
2:39:00
I'm really glad that was true. Though.
2:39:02
Remember, we wrote a lot of that, but you know, it is it is
2:39:06
an issue with the new series that that we are looking at the
2:39:08
Doctor in an intense level, never more so in Series 8.
2:39:14
Perfect segue back to lesson. OK, cards on the table.
2:39:17
For me, this is a masterpiece. This is sheer perfection For me.
2:39:22
It's the harmony of writing, acting, direction, lighting.
2:39:26
Joe, you're absolutely right. The lighting is amazing in this.
2:39:29
The music, the locations is just sublime.
2:39:32
I would not want my doctor to be like this every single week, but
2:39:36
as a one off like this or an irregular version like this, I
2:39:41
think it's just amazing. First reason for absolutely
2:39:46
eulogizing the story is the plotting.
2:39:48
I think Moffett knows how to construct a story.
2:39:51
Just every element you see is telling you more than you think
2:39:54
it is. He's like a master Weaver,
2:39:56
pulling all these strands together so they work in harmony
2:39:59
and Symphony. Mark, you've already picked up
2:40:01
some of the mirroring and paralleling that's going on
2:40:04
here. There's so much going on.
2:40:05
I think the biggest one that makes me chuckles.
2:40:08
Nobody ever mentions that the story at his heart is about fear
2:40:10
of what's under the bed. It's actually the fear of what's
2:40:13
on top of the bed that's the scariest.
2:40:15
This thing in this story, we're told that the young doctor
2:40:19
doesn't want to join the army. That's what those two people
2:40:22
that come into the balance. He doesn't want to join the
2:40:23
army, but young Rupert does. In contrast, he's contemplating
2:40:26
military life. And to accentuate that
2:40:28
difference between them, Rupert sees the toy soldier with the
2:40:32
broken gun as something that's broken, whereas Clara and leaves
2:40:36
that for the Doctor to tell him that he's so brave, he doesn't
2:40:39
need a gun to keep the world safe.
2:40:41
So there's so many parallels in here and it's not just mirroring
2:40:44
this story, it's mirroring into backwards and forwards in the
2:40:48
history of Doctor. So obviously Clara tells the the
2:40:51
Doctor what he uses then as the heart will quote, fake and make
2:40:54
companions of us all. And that's, I love that.
2:40:57
I know that got derided a lot because the wording isn't quite
2:41:00
exactly the same. But, you know, we've all been
2:41:02
told things in our childhood and use those idioms as you go into
2:41:05
adulthood and it just slips into conversation.
2:41:07
So I think that's really clever. It also reaches back to the more
2:41:10
recent Day of the Doctor because in Day of the Doctor, yes, it's
2:41:13
in the same location. That's where the War Doctor
2:41:16
faced his biggest fear. And that's where we're seeing
2:41:19
the young Doctor face his biggest fear as a child.
2:41:22
There's so many parallels in here, just gives layers and
2:41:25
context to these characters. So I think that's really, really
2:41:28
clever. Second thing, the dialogue, one
2:41:31
of the lazy criticisms of Moffat is always just a sitcom writer
2:41:35
and that somehow these dialogues got this kind of superficiality.
2:41:39
But can I point to the scenes with Danny and Clara in the
2:41:42
restaurant? Yes, you can accuse them of
2:41:44
having a slight sitcom machine and there's misunderstandings
2:41:48
and witty retorts, but I think it's so much more than that.
2:41:51
I think those scenes are quite tragic and poignant and moving.
2:41:54
They both keep unintentionally offending each other, but
2:41:57
because you know their characters and you know what
2:41:59
they're talking about, you can see both their points of view.
2:42:02
And so you wince every time one of them puts their foot in it.
2:42:05
And they both do it and they take it in turns and they
2:42:08
clearly want to be together and make this, you know, possibly
2:42:12
make a relationship. But they just keep, I say,
2:42:15
accidentally upsetting each other to the point that that
2:42:18
Clara walks out first time and then she comes back and then he
2:42:20
walks out. And I just think the dialogue
2:42:24
makes them feel warm and funny and sad and real.
2:42:28
Joe, you were saying their relationship doesn't work for
2:42:30
you in other episodes. I agree in the Caretaker it
2:42:33
doesn't work here. I absolutely buy what's going
2:42:35
on. Well, it's it's minimal.
2:42:37
That's why it works well here. I feel for them so.
2:42:40
Much in this situation and then you say?
2:42:42
Superficial, yeah. That's why people find that
2:42:44
sitcom dialogue, yeah. Some people say it's.
2:42:46
Just irritating. Not that it's superficial.
2:42:49
No one actually talks a lot more.
2:42:51
Irritating. Wow, I really enjoy it.
2:42:54
I'm. Not in this episode by it good.
2:42:57
I'm finally 12 and Clara, I love the relationship.
2:43:00
He's constantly teasing her, she bosses him around, but do you
2:43:03
know what? When the chips are down, they're
2:43:05
both there for each other. So at the end of the world he
2:43:08
gets so cross with her. When he sends her back to the
2:43:10
TARDIS, he wants Clara to remain safe.
2:43:12
So he absolutely virtually picks her up and throws her into the
2:43:15
TARDIS to keep her safe. And then at the end, she looks
2:43:18
out for him because she orders him to take the take the TARDIS
2:43:22
away and not see what's going on in the barn.
2:43:24
And he complies with that. So they both, you know, at the
2:43:27
moment that it really counts. They're both there for each
2:43:30
other. They're their best of friends.
2:43:32
So I love that. I think he's fucking amazing
2:43:34
this episode. So it is going through take.
2:43:37
Two more things that just occurred to me.
2:43:39
Well, one is, it is so refreshing because I think Paul
2:43:42
Steven Moffitt, at the start of the season, he's having to tie
2:43:45
up one era and start another, and that's sort of binding.
2:43:49
Yeah. And this is his first chance to
2:43:51
sort of luxuriate in this new, darker tone that he's injected
2:43:55
into the season. And it really suits him well.
2:43:58
It really suits him well. Like Dark Water later in the
2:44:01
season. You know, I've got some issues
2:44:03
with that, but boy, it suits him well, this tone.
2:44:07
And the other thing is I was a bit hard about the comedy in The
2:44:09
Caretaker. Yeah, in comparison, the moment
2:44:13
when she goes into the restaurant and she's like, OK,
2:44:17
but I can have a finally a normal moment in my life and
2:44:19
have a date and that Spaceman, what was.
2:44:23
It's so funny. The look on her face is that's
2:44:26
how you do it. That incongruity.
2:44:29
It's just so funny. The.
2:44:30
Bit where the doctor steals the guy's coffee mug as well.
2:44:34
I love that when he just reveals as he's walking on the corridor,
2:44:37
he lifts up and has a sip. That's brilliant.
2:44:39
Because you don't actually see that coming, because you've seen
2:44:41
the chalk fall on the floor and you think, oh, it could be this
2:44:44
monster, the spirit of the cup away.
2:44:46
You're absolutely right. And then you just say.
2:44:47
No, it's him. He's just it's one negative.
2:44:52
No, there are no negatives in this episode.
2:44:55
But this is but this is not labeled just at this episode.
2:45:01
I don't like it when family members are the exact double of
2:45:07
another family member. The only niggle could then have
2:45:11
found another actor to play. Awesome.
2:45:15
The only thing isn't. The implication as well that him
2:45:18
and Lara have children. Well, that is the other awkward
2:45:22
bit, because it's somewhat unravels.
2:45:25
Except know. What happened at the end of this
2:45:27
very season? But Joe, you just said
2:45:29
implication. You know, we never, it's the
2:45:32
unknown who knows? Never explicitly.
2:45:35
Whore as well, is he? He's knocked somebody else out
2:45:39
while he's dating Clara. Well.
2:45:41
Yeah, you. Never know is.
2:45:43
That another racial stereotype. I'm sure no callow.
2:45:46
Look at me. Come on.
2:45:50
Hey, good. Moving swiftly on Time Heist,
2:45:55
Ken you've. Got Time Heist?
2:45:58
Time Heist. I'm going to put this straight
2:46:01
in the to keep pile. Well done now.
2:46:07
This is one of those again, another one I not really
2:46:11
regarded very highly before. It's it's been there.
2:46:14
I didn't dislike it, but I've never really viewed it
2:46:18
forensically and looking at it again, it's glorious.
2:46:24
Let's start with the obvious. It looks amazing again.
2:46:28
I will come back to Disney money.
2:46:30
What the hell do you need Disney money for?
2:46:32
It looks amazing. A.
2:46:35
Lot of it will be green screen, but who gives a toss when it's
2:46:38
done this well? It has a great cast.
2:46:43
There's the four sort of central characters that form the core of
2:46:48
the heist. They're all played well and
2:46:51
they're all interesting from the minutes that they're all thrown
2:46:56
together. Why are they thrown together so
2:46:59
immediately you're unpicking. You're halfway through a story.
2:47:04
They play a message to themselves.
2:47:08
The younger selves know exactly what they're doing, so this is
2:47:12
not some great threat that they've been put into.
2:47:14
Their younger selves have put them into this situation full
2:47:18
knowing you're unpicking their own story from the start.
2:47:21
What a great start. And I can't think of another
2:47:25
Doctor Who where that's been done or even anything like it,
2:47:29
where time travel or time itself has been used so effectively in
2:47:36
Doctor Who as a dramatic device. You go through this thing, the
2:47:43
threats are there, the the security of this bank, the
2:47:48
horror of people getting caught just for thinking, not impure,
2:47:54
what's the word, but dishonest. So, yeah, guilt and what happens
2:47:59
to people with guilty thoughts in a bank not always viewed as
2:48:04
the most robustly moral of institutions, but it's, it's all
2:48:09
there's a, a threat. We're breaking into a bank.
2:48:12
We don't even know why we're breaking into it.
2:48:14
We've got to do it. And then it takes you all the
2:48:17
way through. You've got the monster in there
2:48:21
that you know from the start, it's it comes out in a
2:48:24
straitjacket. It's not really a monster then,
2:48:27
is it? But why it's still a threat?
2:48:31
The only, only negative I've got about this thing, why in a bank
2:48:37
with razor tight security, are the whacking great air vents
2:48:42
everywhere that you can climb in and out with signs on not to be
2:48:46
opened under any circumstances. Why is it there then?
2:48:52
Because. It's like a big red button.
2:48:54
That's right. But.
2:48:56
Those are really, really flimsy. It's the tiniest argument
2:49:02
against any Doctor Who. Doctor Who thrives on air vents
2:49:05
and ventilation shafts. This I thought was a really
2:49:09
underrated classic. I genuinely enjoyed this from
2:49:14
the moment I press play and I don't understand why I've not
2:49:18
watched it more over the years. Excellent.
2:49:21
Let's go to the comments. Gareth Bowley agrees with you.
2:49:23
He says best one here. Good sale with a great reveal
2:49:26
about the teller. Big Orange, Michael says, feels
2:49:30
like it should have been more fun.
2:49:32
Perfectly acceptable, but nothing to necessarily write
2:49:34
home about. John Arnold says love the high
2:49:37
concept of Doctor Who doing Hustle that fits the Moffett era
2:49:40
perfectly and Clara's mid naughties indie look is frankly
2:49:44
perfection. Ding Dong Oh is.
2:49:47
It hot in here. Jesus Christ.
2:49:49
Dave Rennie my favorite of this bunch.
2:49:51
A clever puzzle story where 2 would be companions.
2:49:54
Join forces with the Doctor and Clara to rob a bank.
2:49:57
Keely well with what she's given and the teller looks fab.
2:50:01
Fraser Gregory says a fairly disposable but nonetheless
2:50:04
enjoyable tale as Doctor Who does Mission Impossible without
2:50:07
really scaling those heights. Keely Horses delightful as you'd
2:50:10
expect, and the Teller is a wonderfully creepy creation.
2:50:14
A keeper. Trade DW.
2:50:16
Insanely enjoyable when you don't know the plot, but when
2:50:19
you do it becomes ever so slightly boring.
2:50:22
That aside, the Teller is great, still enjoy it.
2:50:25
Darren Randall says good fun. Deflated skull is an effect I
2:50:28
still can't watch properly. Horrific.
2:50:30
The love duo of alien beasts is funny when they walk off into
2:50:33
the sunset. Paul Cressa on 1st watch.
2:50:36
It was another smug, timey wimey story that I'd really had enough
2:50:39
of. However, this one story from the
2:50:41
season that I warmed to on a second viewing.
2:50:43
It probably has more to do with Jonathan Bailey's sigh than
2:50:47
anything else. So.
2:50:48
Jason Thompson said he's got mystery and a decent monster,
2:50:51
but it reuses The monster turns out to be missing its lover plot
2:50:54
from last year, and the time trouble memory worm stuff
2:50:57
glosses entirely over where the doctor met and recruited Science
2:51:00
Sabre. Decent enough sporting
2:51:02
characters keep it, but with reservations got to the.
2:51:05
Point, you know, every time we saw a horrific monster, I was
2:51:07
waiting for that twist to hit, you know, Oh God, where's it's
2:51:10
lost lover Daniel Noy says. Great fun and a nicely complex
2:51:14
with two guest performances. I'll start that again, Daniel
2:51:18
Knight says. Great fun and nicely complex,
2:51:21
with two guest companions who are more likeable than Clara.
2:51:26
Keeley Halls is great but underused and The Teller is a
2:51:28
great creation. Daniel Walmsley says pretty
2:51:31
run-of-the-mill but enjoyable thanks largely to the Inception
2:51:34
light structure game supporting guest cast and Coleman looking
2:51:38
fetching in a suit. Caulder's shutter T up up up is
2:51:42
a bit too Malcolm Tucker in space though.
2:51:44
And that visual effects end shot dot dot dot.
2:51:48
Tom Tullow. Nothing spectacular, but
2:51:50
perfectly watchable. Once again, Jenna looks
2:51:53
incredible. It's quite clever but doesn't
2:51:55
live that long in the memory. Fairly routine Doctor Who, which
2:51:58
isn't a bad thing. Michael Storms is a bit of a
2:52:01
mess with Keely Halls wasted in her guest role, and I'm not sure
2:52:04
the internal logic works, but I'm a big sucker for heist goes
2:52:07
wrong movies. Who does?
2:52:08
Ocean's 11 is a big sell. The liquidating brain sequence
2:52:12
is appropriately gruesome. Duke Sims Jenkins says.
2:52:15
My favorite story of the opening 6.
2:52:17
I love a good high story and this is it.
2:52:20
Memorable characters and fun twists.
2:52:22
Joe Llewellyn says pretty good. Like the premise and the
2:52:24
performances. The Doctors are criminal
2:52:26
mastermind Clara in a Reservoir's Dog type suit.
2:52:30
Can you all stop being so bloody horny please?
2:52:34
You and me are always. Lusting over the blokes.
2:52:36
Why? That's the women for once.
2:52:37
So. We haven't started on Jonathan
2:52:38
Bailey yet, so. Jack Coyer says it may be twist
2:52:42
one too many times. I don't understand why old
2:52:45
Keeley, old Keeley Halls the. Older version of her.
2:52:50
Oh, Keeley Halls. I understand why old Keeley
2:52:52
Halls. Suddenly, as a change of heart,
2:52:54
Moffy should have done one of his usual puns and revealed that
2:52:57
it was actually the teller who was telling him what to do.
2:53:00
Entertaining, but slight. Ironically for Moffitt, it slips
2:53:04
through the mind when I stop looking at it.
2:53:07
And finally, Jim Allenby says one of those stories that gets
2:53:10
largely forgotten. I really enjoy it and thought
2:53:12
the guest cars work really well. Ely Horse is criminally
2:53:15
underused. However, that seems to be a
2:53:17
regular problem with the Moffitt era.
2:53:19
The Teller looks great. Mark, are you a Time Heist fan?
2:53:24
I am yeah. This is another keep for me.
2:53:26
I really like it. I think it is so stylish.
2:53:31
It's I love tussle and I love like Oceans 11 and I think it
2:53:35
really it draws on those, doesn't it?
2:53:37
The the costumes and the the music and everything even is is
2:53:41
a bit fastish, but it's it does all hang together sometimes with
2:53:46
heist things if you think about them too much.
2:53:49
But any I remember watching it this time and or watch it when
2:53:54
it originally came out, kind of watching it a second time
2:53:56
because I sort of had some questions.
2:53:57
That's the first time everything is kind of answered in there of,
2:54:00
you know, why why don't they just take the TARDIS in and that
2:54:02
kind of thing. I think it's great.
2:54:05
Yeah, they so the the kind of the mystery of of who the the
2:54:11
architect as the architect, isn't he?
2:54:13
The architect was kept me guessing because I think one of
2:54:17
the things I don't like about the modern series is that the
2:54:20
master is only really used for series finales or for for kind
2:54:25
of big events. You don't just get like in the
2:54:27
classic series, just a master turning up to be behind a random
2:54:31
mid season story. So when when it's something like
2:54:34
that and you've got a mysterious figure in a story, you know it's
2:54:37
going to be somebody from basically within that story.
2:54:40
So it often is ends up being a bit obvious, but it's not in
2:54:45
this case. And I remember thinking the
2:54:48
first time that it was probably going to be Sai or Sabre because
2:54:53
they didn't want, when they appeared to die, they didn't
2:54:56
appear with Missy, which had been established throughout this
2:54:59
series. So I thought it's got to be,
2:55:01
it's got to be them that's behind it.
2:55:03
Which was good because it distracted around the fact that
2:55:05
they weren't actually dead and that was all part of the plan.
2:55:07
So, yeah, little bits and pieces like that, that, yeah, it didn't
2:55:12
make it obvious and kept me guessing.
2:55:14
I I really, really enjoyed and I think, I think, yeah, coming
2:55:17
back to it, it is still entertaining, even though you
2:55:20
know what the twist is and you and you know what's going on.
2:55:23
I think there's enough in there to enjoy it.
2:55:25
And I agree a few of those comments said the same thing.
2:55:27
The the sagging school effect is, is horrific and it's, it's
2:55:32
kind of perfect Doctor Who because it's disturbing without
2:55:34
being gory. So it's the sort of thing you
2:55:36
can sort of scare kids with without it being like unsuitable
2:55:40
for for pre watershed or anything like that.
2:55:43
Fabulous, Joe, that. Caved in skull though, he is
2:55:46
right. That is grim, isn't it?
2:55:49
Really. It's like someone who's had a
2:55:51
nasty accident with some scaffolding.
2:55:54
Literally. A pudding brain.
2:55:56
I realise when I watch this for this I have never gone back to
2:56:01
this episode since it first aired and I figured there must
2:56:06
be a reason for that like I've never had.
2:56:09
Oh, I must watch Time Heist. Is it because it's a mid season
2:56:13
episode? Is it because it's disposable
2:56:15
fluff? Is it because it's really not
2:56:17
very good? I rewatched it and I was like,
2:56:20
yeah, this is really fun, kind of competent Doctor Who, you
2:56:26
know, like it's, it's not listen, you know, and it's
2:56:30
certainly ain't the Caretaker. It's sort of somewhere in the
2:56:32
middle of those two, weirdly enough.
2:56:35
And but what I realized about it this time was just how stylish
2:56:40
it was. I mean, I loved Hustle as well,
2:56:42
and this was totally doing Doctor Who does hustle.
2:56:46
I wrote down a number of ideas and images that I really liked
2:56:49
in the episode this time. So I loved the memory worm
2:56:52
making a reappearance. I love the Teller with his
2:56:57
phallic eyes wibbling together and sucking out the content of
2:57:00
people's minds. I somehow managed to make that
2:57:03
sound rude and I the vomit inducing shot of the man's
2:57:06
deflated head, the bomb that melts away the floor and and
2:57:10
paints over the gaping more afterwards.
2:57:12
I'm a bit fruity with my descriptions, aren't I?
2:57:15
I like the gamer who's half computer.
2:57:17
I like the solar storm battering the bank.
2:57:20
That brilliant shock moment where the Doctor comes face to
2:57:22
face with the Teller. That's a great moment.
2:57:26
I really like the cut to Calibrax sitting amongst her art
2:57:28
treasures listening to classical music.
2:57:31
If Brax Your tale was ever to appear in Doctor Who, it was
2:57:34
that moment. God damn it.
2:57:35
Why? Why wasn't it him?
2:57:37
So I think it's Douglas McKinnon again, isn't it?
2:57:41
What has happened? Like did someone sit down and go
2:57:47
Cold War really ain't good enough mate.
2:57:49
Like you have to try harder than this.
2:57:51
It's really impressive and I think to pull off a successful
2:57:55
heist you need the smart and capable team to back you up and
2:57:58
sigh. And is it Sabra?
2:58:00
Is that how you say it? Are really fun engaging
2:58:04
characters and honestly sorry to do this, but just to take the
2:58:08
limelight off the architect of the Doctor of sorry Clara.
2:58:13
It's very refreshing to have that and the big weather all
2:58:15
around the console. We in the take away together.
2:58:17
It's like the one moment where you see the Doctor and Clara
2:58:20
sort of having fun in the TARDIS in this entire half season.
2:58:23
It's really nice to see God bless Peter Capaldi once again.
2:58:29
The most thrilling thing about the entire story, Single
2:58:33
handedly convincing you there's something going on beneath the
2:58:36
surface of this when there isn't really at all.
2:58:39
Yeah. He walks through the whole
2:58:40
story, taking it absolutely deadly serious, and he convinces
2:58:44
me that this is a really ripping Doctor Who story.
2:58:48
I think that man is a magician. I think it's the eyebrows.
2:58:52
It's those eyebrows that do it or attack.
2:58:55
Eyebrows. Yeah.
2:58:56
Absolutely. There's things I don't like
2:58:58
about this. I don't.
2:59:00
I really feel like Keely Hawes is wasted.
2:59:02
She's such a brilliant actress and she gets a handful of scenes
2:59:05
and she, like I thought, man, oh man, she's the villain.
2:59:09
She's going to go for it. And she doesn't really, does
2:59:10
she? It's quite understated
2:59:12
performance. You know, that was supposed to
2:59:14
be Michelle Gomez and Michelle Gomez was offered that role 1st
2:59:17
and we don't know whether she turned it down or she.
2:59:20
Would have gone. For it like, wouldn't she?
2:59:22
You know, Yeah. But then we wouldn't have had
2:59:23
her as messy. So Keely.
2:59:24
Hawes should be the Rani, right? That would be the just the best
2:59:27
fit in the world. And I think it like all the
2:59:31
twists and turns, I know you sort of have to have them in a
2:59:34
hassle type episode, but we're in the Muffet era now where we
2:59:36
do that sort of thing all the time.
2:59:38
So it's not exactly novel, is it?
2:59:40
But it's fun, Yeah. I won't watch it again for
2:59:43
another 15 years, but it's fun. Keep it.
2:59:48
I'm also going to keep it so it's another one that's going
2:59:50
through, and yet again, I'm sorry to bore you, but it's all
2:59:53
about parallels and mirroring. Yet again and again.
2:59:56
It's another really clever script.
2:59:58
This is Stephen Thompson of close, the Black Spot fan, plus
3:00:02
Stephen Moffatt. I think it's a lot more Moffatt
3:00:04
than it is Thompson did. He write anymore?
3:00:08
He wrote. What was the third one?
3:00:09
He wrote. Was it journey?
3:00:10
To the centre of the Sardis it. Was.
3:00:12
It was. Three.
3:00:13
Well, he got one right. He got one right.
3:00:16
So, yeah, there are loads again of parallels here, and you might
3:00:19
not realize them at the time because there are so many.
3:00:21
It depends when they're kind of twists and revelations land.
3:00:24
But the fat of all these parallels, that's what one of
3:00:26
the things that makes me come back to this episode.
3:00:28
Unlike you, Joe, I have watched this a lot of times.
3:00:31
This is one that really draws me back.
3:00:33
It's interesting, it's fun, and there's just so much going on
3:00:36
here. So yeah, the Doctor, we find
3:00:37
out, is the Architect. But the Doctor spends most of
3:00:40
the episodes saying that he hates the Architect because he's
3:00:42
overbearing, his manipulative, and he likes to think he's
3:00:45
clever. Well, what's that doing?
3:00:48
That's tying up with the theme of self questioning and self
3:00:51
doubt that we've seen the Doctor going through this series.
3:00:53
She. Didn't know it's all over this
3:00:55
season. It's.
3:00:55
Clever, but it also parallels Carabraxos because she will only
3:00:59
employ clones of herself and she resents them and she'll happily
3:01:02
burn them when they fail. So again, there's that kind of
3:01:05
question about self doubt. And it's the same with Sabre.
3:01:07
Sabre is full of self doubt for her condition because anyone
3:01:10
that gets close to her, she'll become a physical manifestation
3:01:14
of them. So there's so much going on
3:01:15
about the self and how comfortable you are with
3:01:18
yourself and who you are. There's also a lot of questions
3:01:21
about memory. So the Doctor, Clara, Sai and
3:01:24
Sabra all have their memories wiped at the beginning so that
3:01:27
they can keep what they know from the Teller and Carabraxos.
3:01:30
It keeps them safe, but it's exactly because of a loss of
3:01:34
memory. The son is willing to self
3:01:36
sacrifice himself because he can't recall his friends or his
3:01:39
family. Although the twist is that
3:01:41
action actually does help keep him safe because he's teleported
3:01:44
away. And finally, it's kind of Kara
3:01:46
Braxos's memory of events that keeps the hot.
3:01:49
That puts the whole chain of events into action, which
3:01:52
ultimately keeps the two tellers safe.
3:01:54
So again, there's lots of play around memory and how he used
3:01:58
memory. And then there's one other
3:02:00
parallel, which is the impact of guilt.
3:02:02
So for those who are planning to rob the bank, it's guilt that
3:02:05
gets them killed in the hands of the teller.
3:02:07
But ironically, it's Kara Braxos's guilt at the end of the
3:02:10
episode of what she's done that resolves it.
3:02:13
So again, this I've just seen such a clever script.
3:02:15
It's spinning on all these different things.
3:02:17
Second reason, Joe, I'm going to do a you, whereas you always
3:02:20
slag off Steven Moffitt in someone else's episode.
3:02:23
I'm going to have a go at Chipnall Hair.
3:02:25
So this is how you do a gang. So unlike Dinosaurs on the
3:02:29
spaceship, which, yes, is a fun episode, but the gang itself in
3:02:33
that, as we talked about in the episode, is horribly
3:02:35
underdeveloped. All you know about Riddell is
3:02:37
that he's a horn dog. All you know about Nefertiti is
3:02:40
she's a strong woman here. We've got a gang with Science
3:02:43
Sabre. They've both got back stories,
3:02:45
which I just talked about. They get development, but
3:02:48
therefore they become people. We care about them.
3:02:50
We want to know more about them. Joey said.
3:02:52
That lovely scene at the end where they're all stood around
3:02:55
eating Chinese. So many people after this
3:02:57
episode said, oh, why can't we have them back?
3:02:59
Have they make such a good team together?
3:03:01
That's a sign of good writing and good characters if you want
3:03:04
to come back and revisit them. So I.
3:03:07
Didn't like dinosaurs on a spaceship?
3:03:09
Why are you having a go at me? What I what I would.
3:03:13
Say is that in The Woman Who Fell to Earth, he assembles a
3:03:16
gang of characters, gives them all solid motivations,
3:03:19
backgrounds and personalities in the space of 50 minutes.
3:03:24
So he can't do it. Joe, are you breaking up again?
3:03:27
Yeah. Definitely.
3:03:28
I can't hear that. Don't, don't start me on those
3:03:30
three. We've been through that.
3:03:31
I've still got the scales. And thirdly, Murray Gold,
3:03:36
because I'm not going to get another chance to mention Murray
3:03:38
Gold because we've come to the end of the episode.
3:03:40
So I want to give out a shout out to Murray Gold.
3:03:42
A lot of people are down on him in his later years, particularly
3:03:45
during the Capaldi period, but I think he still knocks out the
3:03:47
park in particularly gives us twelves theme, which is really
3:03:51
prominent throughout this episode, which is why I thought
3:03:53
it was a good point to to bring it up.
3:03:55
I fucking love that theme. I think it's my favorite of the
3:03:57
one. That goes it's a that one.
3:04:03
Not the way, you just. I.
3:04:06
Sounded more like The Smurfs to be honest.
3:04:08
I used to. Work out of that in the gym that
3:04:10
way. So it's.
3:04:12
Explained a lot, yeah. But I think that thing's
3:04:16
majestic. It's soaring.
3:04:18
It's dark, just like the Doctor, but it's not uplifting.
3:04:20
I love it. Love Murray Gold.
3:04:22
Love this episode it's going through.
3:04:25
So we're on to Part 2. We've got five of our six.
3:04:28
It's only the caretaker that we've had to wave.
3:04:30
That's. An unusual hit rate for a muffet
3:04:32
season isn't. It pretty good.
3:04:34
Yeah, if I think about Series 9, I think we have three out of
3:04:37
nine. Go through.
3:04:39
And that wasn't all my doing, no.
3:04:40
It wasn't. It certainly wasn't.
3:04:42
Really. Yeah, it wasn't.
3:04:44
Wasn't my doing. Hideous season, lovely series.
3:04:48
So we've got 5 on the wheel. Joe, start your camp music
3:04:52
please. Camp music ago.
3:04:54
And we spin the wheel and we've got Time Heist, and Time Heist
3:05:00
is up against Into the Dalek, no?
3:05:04
Into the Dalek. Cam time.
3:05:08
Heist. Mark.
3:05:11
Into the Dalek. So we've got 2 for Dalek, one
3:05:15
for time. That top layer over there.
3:05:22
Time Heist, They're very different.
3:05:24
Time Heist is a lot of fun. Into.
3:05:27
The Daleks I'm going to go into the Dalek.
3:05:29
I love Time Heist. I'm sorry to say goodbye, but
3:05:33
into the Dalek, it's great. So so Time Heist goes and we
3:05:40
spin the wheel and we have into the Dalek again.
3:05:44
It's obviously going to be a popular one up against Listen
3:05:53
Press Listen For me, it's an absolute bloody masterpiece.
3:05:56
Listen for me. Listen for me.
3:05:59
I. Would have said Into the Dalek,
3:06:01
but this one is a worthy winner of that.
3:06:04
Into the Dalek it becomes next one to fall, so we're only left
3:06:08
with three. And we've got deep breath, deep
3:06:14
breath against listen. So robot of Sherwood is going to
3:06:18
be in the final yes, so deep breath versus listen, Mark, I'm.
3:06:23
Going to say listen. And deep breath, listen, please
3:06:30
and. Listen for me.
3:06:32
So I love these. Choices in the second rounds.
3:06:36
Every person that put through dollies in Manhattan.
3:06:38
Maybe Hal? So we are left with robots of
3:06:43
Sherwood and. Listen, I mean, tonally they
3:06:47
could not be more opposite to each other, couldn't they?
3:06:50
They. Kind of feel as though they
3:06:51
belong in two very different series, but they are sequential
3:06:55
episodes. Oh my God, is Gay is going to
3:06:58
continue to win all of the Muffin seasons or will Muffet
3:07:01
finally win one of his own seasons?
3:07:04
Let's go to Mark. Listen.
3:07:08
Can listen, Joe? Yeah, the entered of robot
3:07:14
Sherwood is so pony Listen. Listen is just absolute classic.
3:07:19
I don't know why people absolutely adore that crap in
3:07:24
the castle when they could have listened although.
3:07:26
I shall say listen with a caveat of it absolutely isn't my
3:07:31
favorite episode of the season. Little spoiler for layouts we.
3:07:35
Will get that, we will get that, but for these six episodes we
3:07:39
have a worthy winner. It is lesson, gentlemen, thank
3:07:43
you very much for your time and your insight and your fantastic
3:07:47
observations, apart from Ken on the Caretaker, obviously.
3:07:51
And your handsome looks as well. Thank you.
3:07:53
How could I miss those out? Gentlemen, would you like to
3:07:56
point people in your direction? You've already plugged your
3:07:59
various podcasts, but go for it again.
3:08:02
Where can people find you, Mark? Yeah, so Trap One podcasts the
3:08:07
main place, but there is one more season of Maximum Power to
3:08:12
Come, which we're recording at the moment, and I think it's
3:08:15
probably about early next year, I think, Don't quote me on that,
3:08:17
but I think I think that's right.
3:08:20
But yeah, mainly Trap 1 and I'm on Twitter and Blue Sky is at
3:08:24
Quark. I'm like Malice.
3:08:25
Can I say if you do want to hear Mark's further thoughts on these
3:08:30
episodes, please do go and find Deep Breath and Into the Dalek
3:08:34
Commentaries where we're going to.
3:08:35
He extols the virtues magnificently.
3:08:40
Fabulous. I'm Mr. Ken Moss.
3:08:43
You can find me with Doctor Simon Exton at the Exton Moss
3:08:46
Experiment. We look at Archive TV, the
3:08:49
archive of Audio Antiquities, where we look at Archive Radio
3:08:52
Kinky Boo, which is an episode by episode watch along of The
3:08:56
Avengers and the Tonic screwdriver, which is hundreds
3:09:01
of bite size gin reviews. I'm also on 9 Bob note with Paul
3:09:07
I's Rush and that's a gay and a non gay.
3:09:10
It's an LGBT podcast coming at things from very different
3:09:13
angles and of course hamster, where I'm just a podcast.
3:09:19
Who are I? I'm on hamster.
3:09:23
I can't even finish that. Looking at you guys laughing at
3:09:26
that, but I'm I'm on the hamsters doing book of readings.
3:09:31
You're always I. Must can, I can't get off you.
3:09:36
You know. I don't drink and I know so
3:09:38
fucking much about gin now. Thanks for listening to your
3:09:42
podcast. Would you like?
3:09:43
That tonight tonight I have been on Smokey Bacon and Horseradish
3:09:48
Gin by Whitley Neal. It is.
3:09:52
I think it's delicious. I mean, the first time we have
3:09:54
it, Simon mixed about half a bottle of gin between 2 glasses
3:10:00
and it was like petrol. We didn't review it very well at
3:10:03
all and I ended up pissed in bed.
3:10:05
However, when you pissed. The bed pissed in bed.
3:10:10
Pissed in bed in a source of it's an important.
3:10:12
Definition there. They're very different, but yes,
3:10:15
in a slavering coma for three hours.
3:10:17
But mixed properly, it's actually a very nice, if
3:10:20
peculiar drink. Very worthy.
3:10:22
Smoky. Bacon and horseradish.
3:10:24
So it could work, you know I don't.
3:10:27
Think it could if. You want to listen to the
3:10:29
booziest podcast of all time? Yeah.
3:10:32
Can I point you in the direction of the the attempted TV movie
3:10:38
commentary that Ken and Doctor Sabin ex and did where they were
3:10:42
drinking every time the word time was mentioned and we're
3:10:47
under the table about 10 minutes in because you know the people
3:10:49
it goes time, time. They're swigging swig.
3:10:53
By the end he's going, oh, fucking love this console.
3:10:57
I like it. So funny.
3:10:59
Honest to God, you're barely coherent by the end of that
3:11:02
episode. Oh.
3:11:03
I was so drunk at the end of that session.
3:11:05
If any of you fancy see a really heroic drinking game, Doctor Who
3:11:09
hands down take any story alike focus on something we did want
3:11:14
the Keeper of track and called on the source.
3:11:18
You take a drink every time someone says the word Source.
3:11:21
They say it a lot. No, take a drink every time
3:11:26
Chris Chibnall writes an exposition.
3:11:28
My God, absolutely. All the words timey wimey I
3:11:33
mentioned. Oh dear.
3:11:35
Anyway, sorry. Anyway, gentlemen, thank you
3:11:40
very much for your time tonight. It's been an absolute pleasure
3:11:42
to have you both on. What a joy, actually.
3:11:44
We'll both see to you again, sorry.
3:11:46
To keep interrupting you. It's good one I'm used to.
3:11:48
It. But how I'm going to say this,
3:11:52
how joyful to have done a Stephen Moffett era half season
3:11:59
where it has been broadly positive.
3:12:03
Because I have noticed that those seasons do get hit quite a
3:12:07
bit in strictly with the comments and because we usually
3:12:11
bring in a lover and a hater and so it gets a bit nasty to
3:12:15
actually have 3 lovers and me here, it's actually been quite
3:12:19
refreshing. So thank you very much guys.
3:12:21
It's been really nice. Oh, it's been a pleasure.
3:12:23
Thank you for asking me for having.
3:12:24
US here. It's a fabulous lead in Joe
3:12:26
because next time, unfortunately due to a quirk in the time space
3:12:30
continuum, we are doing Moffett again next time round.
3:12:34
What are we? Doing next time there.
3:12:35
Is five with Matt Smith I'll. I'll be less kind about that.
3:12:39
Yeah, I thought. You might be.
3:12:40
I thought you might be, but. Unusually, because everyone
3:12:43
seems to love it. But it does.
3:12:46
Have Cold War, not Cold War. What's cold cold.
3:12:48
Blood. Cold blood and.
3:12:51
Hungry Earth. There's a few in there.
3:12:55
We'll see where that lands. But until we get there,
3:12:59
gentlemen, thank you for your time tonight, Joe.
3:13:01
It's on the next episode. Keep listening.
3:13:09
Good night. That's all time you wire me off.
3:13:12
Come on. The.
3:14:20
The.