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Trish Elaine: Finding Hope After Domestic Violence · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: In every dark tunnel, there's a glimmer of hope.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: In every painful moment, there's a strength to heal anyway what I thought I could never get back.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Surviving Podcast.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited about the guest we have on today.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I came across some TikToks of her sharing her story and what she's went through, so I don't think this is needed, but I'm going to go ahead and just give a trigger warning.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: We're talking about domestic violence and all the things that go along with it.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: We have Ms Trish with us and, girl, thank you for being here.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be here.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad that I'm starting to get into the algorithm of the topics that I cover, because I've just been shooting out messages like, hey, let's connect, and you immediately responded.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I saw it and I thought I'm not sure how real this is.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I'm going to look into it, though.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: And then it was just amazing how quickly we connected and how we did connect.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: We are going to talk about some deep, dark stuff, deep dark stuff.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: But what's going to be so great is, I think even just in the few minutes that we've talked, we've learned to laugh and smile along the way, because we're going to win.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: So start with telling us how you started building your platform of becoming public with your story and what your story is.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: So for several years now, I have actually felt like I need to share this story.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I need to help other people in this situation.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: But, being a survivor of domestic violence, so many people that have been in that situation feel like they have to stay quiet, feel like they can't tell anyone because maybe the people they have told before have shut them down or looked at them like they were maybe exaggerating things, and so I wanted to put an end to that, and I had to start with myself.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I finally got the courage one day and said, all right, I'm going to do it.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I've probably filmed 25 different TikTok videos.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: The very first time I ever did one and hated every one of them and said I don't care, it's going up, it is what it is, whatever happens.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: But the most important thing to me was the amount of people who connected with it, who said that's my story, that's my life, I'm in it now.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: I've been there and that has been the sole purpose this whole time is just to help at least one person.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: And when you see that you're not helping just one or two, but multiple people and these questions are coming in with, how do I help my sister or my friend, or I've been there.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Where do I go next?
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: You just feel like you're on the right track, this is what you're supposed to be doing, and you're using your darkness to bring light to somebody else.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: It's the greatest feeling that there is.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: It makes it not so in vain, and it's also for myself.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: It's a way for me to regain that control.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, I have definitely for years.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: It's been 13 years since I've been out of my abusive marriage, but for years I couldn't talk about it without crying.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I couldn't even think about it without crying.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: And now I can talk about it with a smile on my face and say, yeah, it was bad, but look where I am today and look what I'm doing with it today.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I think getting to that point is so hard and so many people have a hard time trying to figure out how do they jump the obstacles to find happiness again.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: But it is out there.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: It is possible.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: You just have to start believing in yourself and letting it go.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: You have to be willing to get it out there, as scary as it can be sometimes.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: When my trauma was fresh, I did not have the choice of deciding when to release my story.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: It was public.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Everyone knew this narrative about me that wasn't completely correct.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: So what I used to get offended about in the beginning, before I understood everything, is when people would have the responses that I didn't care much for, such as are you exaggerating this?
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: How truthful is this?
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: And then I realized that is their coping mechanism, that is their way of.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Their brain cannot wrap around the fact that there are monsters under our beds.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Did you find that?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: How did you come to peace with those forms of responses?
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: That wasn't too supportive.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: So I think the very first time I ever actually told anybody this is what's going on, this is what's happening.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And it was after I had already left my ex-husband my very best friends.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I sat down and said this is why we got divorced.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: One of them looked me in the eye and said I don't think he would ever do that to you.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: And that was the moment that I thought I'm keeping it all in from now on, because if my best friend is going to tell me that I'm lying, then who's going to believe anything I say?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: And so that was the beginning of me keeping it in.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And then the very first time I felt heard was when I actually spoke to another survivor and instead of getting those remarks of why did you stay, he hit you the first time.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you leave?
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: And, pretty much putting the blame on me, she looked me in the eyes and said I completely understand.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I've been there and I know it's a hard thing to get through, and my parents have been amazing and supportive.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I still don't think to this day that they can fully understand why I stay in this situation as long as I did, but even having them on my side, that was still the very first time I ever felt like, okay, I'm not alone in this.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: And that feeling stuck with me for so long, and that's what has led me to where I am now is if one person made me feel like you're not alone in this, then one person can help somebody else do the same thing.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I will never forget the moment when I started doing sexual assault group therapy and it was me and four to five other men who were actually straight men, four to five other men who were actually straight men Sorry and they're my brothers now.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I love them.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: They were all supportive and amazing.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: But I will never forget the moment that I was shaking and crying and telling my story and feeling so defeated, and when one of them grabbed my hand and he said I believe you, it changed.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Just hearing those words, knowing that somebody is supporting you, I think, is exactly what you need to take that next step.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a book that I would recommend, but I had Dr Heidi Brock on my show and she wrote a book called the Escape Plan.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, because the first 14 days or two weeks a person the size are leaving an unhealthy relationship is when it's most dangerous and how many times it takes to actually leave.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: People will leave up to 10 times before they're actually gone.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she has lived this and is now like a certified expert on this.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: There's so many people don't understand that when somebody is in that position they can't just pack a bag and go if they don't have control of their finances, if they don't have a vehicle, if they don't have family, because a lot of the times that abuser is going to completely isolate you from everybody and then you hardly have anyone around that you can turn to.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: There's this whole grooming process that people don't know that really happens and usually don't even notice it.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: They slowly started cutting me off from my finances and they slowly started cutting me off from my family, and then all of a sudden I'm not allowed to be friends with this person.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: And then where do you go?
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: My situation started, like most do, with the beginning of the trauma bond, with the love bombing stage, and I have never been the kind of person who said I love you first.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: I always wanted to make sure I was sure about it.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: But I was also 16 years old and so I met my ex-husband.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I didn't think it was going to go anywhere.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I actually told him I was 17 whenever I was 16, because I thought this is just some random guy I just met.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Within about a week, he tells me he loves me and then got upset because I wouldn't say it back and so finally, just okay, I love you too, just to shut him up and move on to the next thing.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: We spent a lot of time together and then it was like he was my only friend.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: He was the only person I was allowed to be around, and at such a young age I don't think you realize that you're not hanging out with your friends anymore because you're so involved with the person you're with.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: And sure, now I see that there were a million red flags, but at the time I was infatuated with the bad boy and that's how it started.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: So they definitely start with letting you know how important you are and how special you are, and nobody could ever love you the way that they love you.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: And it comes on fast and then all of a sudden, next thing you know, you are alone with just that person.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: If you don't mind, tell us about your relationship and those processes from beginning to end, however you want to do it and what you're comfortable with.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, we met very young, 16.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I felt very infatuated with him.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: I never felt like early on in that point that I was in love with him.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: I would tell him I was, just because that's what he wanted to hear.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: And I did notice this pattern of he wants certain things from me and he would get upset.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say angry crossing lines by any means yet, but he would get upset if he didn't get what he wanted, even if it was just a couple of words.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: And so I would start giving him what he wanted from me, just to keep the peace.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: And there was a time where I snuck off with him and we're kids, we're doing things we're not supposed to be doing and I ended up pregnant and it was very clearly intentional on his end.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: I was by no means ready to be a parent, but it happened.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: So we went with it.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: And I guess that's when things started really taking a turn, because my parents would have never, ever told me to leave their house because I was pregnant.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: But I definitely felt, no, I'm done, they're going to kick me out.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: I've screwed up.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I'm running around with the guy I'm not supposed to be running around with.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Now I'm pregnant, I'm just going to go move in with him, and so that's exactly what I did.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I started now I'm in his home and he lives with his dad it started turning to he was just a bully.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: He would just say mean little things and jabs and nothing physical.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: At that point in time just started really being demeaning and stripping away my self-confidence and my self-esteem.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: And that is a huge part of trauma bonds, because once they get you hooked, then they start trying to tear you down because then they're the only person that can bring you back up.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: So he definitely worked that pattern with me and I was too afraid to go home.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: I hadn't even told my parents I was pregnant at that point.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: So I'm too afraid to face them and say, hey, I moved out because I'm pregnant and also not sure how it's going to be staying with him where we're at.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Things were up in the air a lot in the beginning and we ended up breaking up right before my daughter was actually born, a couple of months before she was born, and, um, he showed up to the hospital whenever I went into labor with her without even trying to.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: We just made amends and we had a kid together now.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: So I was raised by two very loving parents and a very loving home.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: I did not have any kind of, they say, daddy issues.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I had nothing like that.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I had a great childhood but I was raised to be a family and I'm young, but I have a child.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I need to be with my child's father and that's what led to me thinking that's where I had to stay, and I think it was a combination between me feeling like I needed to make the right decision and him leaning in on it, as this is what you're going to do, and him leaning in on it, as this is what you're going to do.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's just something in us that happens where we think a mom and dad should be together, whether it's because that's what you know or because that's what you've for for so long.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Once a baby is involved, once a child is involved, it truly changes everything.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: It does, and there's a lot of times where people think a child coming into their relationship is going to fix things.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: But if there's already problems, it's just going to add to it.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: It changes the entire dynamic of your relationship and it just makes those stressors even worse.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: And that's pretty much what happened with us.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I actually stayed with my parents for the first six weeks after my daughter was born and then moved back in with him, but not at his dad's place.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Now we were at his grandmother's house.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: We stayed there for a little while and we just house hopped is what we did.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I'm 17.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I have a newborn baby and I have no idea where I'm going to sleep next week.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I might be good for a few days here, but I don't really know where we're going after this, and we ended up finally getting an apartment together, and that is when the abuse started to turn to physical as opposed to just emotional.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: When I had my daughter, my mom was in the room, the nurse was in the room.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: He wasn't there and I was going to name her after him, and the nurse and my mom both convinced me that this probably won't last.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: He's not going to stick around.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: She needs to have your last name.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: So I gave her my last name and he believed that was what I had to do because I wasn't 18.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: And I'm not sure if someone told him, but when she was four months old he called the hospital and spoke to someone and they said she could name her whatever she wanted to.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: If she wanted to have your last name she could have.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: So that was the very first time that he got physical with me and he just backhanded me.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I say just because of what it progressed to, but that was the start of it had you convinced yourself that you were happy and this is love and this is what you deserve, or did you have that piece of you that was I'm only here temporarily Like where was your mindset?
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: So it was back and forth.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of it.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I'm here because I have a child with you.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I'm here because it's going to get better, because I remember how you were the first week and a half, two weeks we were together, because he did get bad quickly, but there was just, I think, because I was young and I had a kid and I feel like this is where we're supposed to be.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I just kept thinking he's not going to be like this forever.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: He will eventually mature.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: I always had in the back of my mind guys mature around 25.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: If I can just push it till he's 25 years old, we will be just fine.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: And that's what I kept pushing towards, because I wanted that happy family.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: I did not want to have a child whose parents were not married, not divorced.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: We already weren't married.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: So I'm already one step in that direction.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: A lot of people that do know that I had amazing parents say why didn't you just call them?
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you just go to them?
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you just tell them hey, this is what's going on.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: And a lot of times I know for me personally it was the most embarrassing thing I could have possibly done my parents who said he's not worth anything, and I still went after him anyway and then did not tell that I was pregnant.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And I think to go up to them and say this is what's going on would just be saying y'all were right and I was wrong.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: And at 17 years old, that was the last thing I wanted to do was make my parents believe that, hey, y'all were right and I made a mistake Absolutely.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I'm 36.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: And I still, before I make a big decision, think okay, what would my dad think about this?
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: I think we respect them so much that we don't want to let them down, and that does hinder us sometimes.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: There were times that I could have said something, but my ex-husband had done so many things proven that his threats could be very real and I never actually left him until I left him.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I talked about it all the time but I never actually did it until I left him.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I may be one of the few that actually did it on the first go, but it was such a long time coming.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: It was such a buildup.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I was planning mentally the whole time, but I waited until he was gone and then made a move and it definitely backfired.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I feel like too many people.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: They just don't understand, especially the ones that are in that situation currently or have been there.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: They don't understand that they have got to have that support system behind them too.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: And you have to open up to people, because if nobody knows what's going on, nobody's going to be able to help you get out of it.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: And that was a mistake I made.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't have that support system until I went knocking on the door and saying today's the day we got to do this.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Do you mind if I ask?
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: you all have two children.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, there was that first assault happened.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: There was that first assault happened.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: That was not the beginning of the end, right, okay.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: So I the abuse really picked up quickly because in that same apartment we moved so much, we were almost constantly moving and so we weren't in that apartment for very long.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: But in that apartment it went from being backhanded for the first time to being knocked unconscious on the concrete floor that we had.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: It was a very quick turn of events, from him just being a little rude and demeaning to all of a sudden being extremely physical, and during that time I experienced a little bit of nausea, a little bit of sickness, but I thought it's probably just a bug, it's no big deal, and we ended up moving again.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: So we were living out in the middle of nowhere at this point in time and my mom said you need to go to the doctor, there's something going on.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And so I went to the doctor with her I am now 18 years old and the doctor says okay, you're 24 weeks, like I already knew, and I said oh, no, I'm not pregnant.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: And she said you're 24 weeks along and I ended up going into premature labor.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: So there was a very short span in there where I had to register that I am 18, about to have a second child, before I actually had that second child.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of trying to figure out how are we going to afford two children.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I would take pennies to the grocery store sometimes just to make sure that my daughter had the food that she needed, because my ex would work sporadically.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I did not work a lot, but I was pretty much the breadwinner.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: So that goes to say a lot about the kind of life that we were living at that point in time.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: And he definitely stopped caring about whether or not our daughter was going to witness any of the abuse that occurred.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: And he ended up one night tying me up to a kitchen chair.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I was completely naked and he tied me to a kitchen chair using the cord of my straightener and started wailing on me and I thought maybe we were done.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And next thing I know he has drugged me out to the front porch and kicked me in the stomach several times and left me there overnight.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: So that was definitely one of those moments of I've got to get out.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: But I didn't actually know at that point in time that I was pregnant.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: It wasn't until after that that I realized that I was pregnant and it wasn't until about six months ago that epiphany occurred to me that I finally had that kind of eyeopening moment of when that abuse occurred.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: I was pregnant with my son, and so that was a hard thing for me to overcome, even over a decade later.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: It's not an easy road for anybody.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I think you're always going to have those memories, jump back at you and remember things you didn't even know that you'd forgotten.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: But I also think that's part of the healing 100%.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: I think that your body knows when you're being proactive and in that healing process, and so your body will start releasing those memories.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I know that it's happened with me that I'll have a memory of something and think, oh gosh, if I would have had this memory six years ago, I'd have lost my shit.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't ready for it.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, I completely agree.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I hate that the kids witness this.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I'm such a believer in generational abuse.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: You're teaching your daughter to put up with this from a man Exactly.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: You're teaching your daughter that this is what she deserves Exactly.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: So my daughter actually I haven't actually covered this on my social media yet she was sexually abused by my ex-husband when she was five years old and so she having to grow up watching it happen to her mom and then have it happen to her, she has become the strongest person that I know because she has overcome it all.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: She helped put him in prison.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: She's almost 19 and she's doing everything she can to help people in the same type situation.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: So she is absolutely just a little hero.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: But and my son it was really hard with him because this wasn't something that he remembered.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: He was so much younger than her that he couldn't seem to put together that his biological father was not the guy that he thought that he was.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: But I also wasn't going to sit there and talk badly about him.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: And so he was probably about eight whenever he finally realized that, when he hadn't seen him since he was three.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: But we didn't share all the dark stuff with them until he was a little bit older, and then he didn't get all the really dark stuff until he was about 13.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: The story that I came across that I would love for you to touch on, because I feel like it's full of information, of things that people don't realize.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: But the story I think it was multiple parts- so this was actually the night that I decided I'm done, I'm leaving, and I had called him before that, prior he had gone out of state to work and I thought this is it, this is my chance.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't have called him, but I picked up the phone and just let him know hey, I'm not going to be here when you get back.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: So best of luck.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: And he ended up driving back from two States away, driving back to Texas, and showed up the next day where I worked and there was an altercation in the parking lot.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: And then we go home and ultimately, what happened was he decided he was going to leave me and he took the kids from me and he had broken my cell phone, cut up my debit card, and so I had no means to do anything at that point in time, but I didn't know if I needed to just jump to go to my parents' house.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: What do I do?
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Because it was not normal behavior for him.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: He had never taken the kids before, and so I'm thinking he'll be back.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: He's just going to drive down the road, cool off.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: He'll come back, because he has definitely threatened to leave before, and when he didn't come back and didn't come back.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: I stayed up all night long and thought surely any minute now.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: And so the next morning, at the soonest time I possibly could, I went to my parents' house and I said, okay, he took the kids and I think I know where they are, but we have to go now.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the process of healing.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Have you ever experienced trauma?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Are there negative thoughts that have more control over you than you would like?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: If so, know that you are not alone.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: David and I, as well as so many others, have been right where you are now.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: We all carry experiences that can leave a scar, but know this, you don't have to carry this burden alone In the process of healing.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: We'll help you navigate through the pain and find the strength to reclaim your life.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: We'll tackle everything from understanding trauma, building healthy coping mechanisms, hearing inspiring survivor stories and get our personalized thoughts on topics around mental health and healing.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Healing is a journey, not a destination.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: It's time to start the process of healing.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: And so my mom and I loaded up.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: We drove an hour and a half.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: I knew the apartment complex that his sister had lived in, but I could not remember which apartment was actually hers.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: And so I went to the manager's office and very much sweet talked her, made it sound like I was just a silly girl who forgot the apartment number.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: But she has my kids and she was just babysitting and I've got to pick them up so she can go to work.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: And so she hinted the vicinity to me and I got the wrong door twice and made people very angry that I was beating on their door so hard.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Finally got to hers, knew it had to be hers, because here comes the manager.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: She is furious that I am knocking on all these doors.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: She sees that obviously I'm not there for the reason I said I was there for, and his sister never opened the door.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, cops show up and he shows up.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: This is fantastic.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: This works out great for me because he took the kids from me, so this will just be super easy.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: So he gets up the stairs, cops come and talk to us and ultimately the decision was that we were married and so we didn't have a custody agreement and it didn't matter that his sister should have opened that door and let me have those kids.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: It did not matter that she didn't have anything to do with them.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: He was now there and since he was there and he was their dad, there was nothing I could do to get them.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: And so I'm walking down the steps looking at my mom and I said I'm going to freaking kill him.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: And this other cop looked at me and said I want you to know that my brother's wife is doing the same thing to him right now.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: She took the kids and moved out of state and now she won't let him see them.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: And I'm thinking this is what he's doing to me.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Y'all are allowing him to do this to me.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: And I drove away without my kids.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I'm watching him as we're driving away with just a shitty grin on his face, like he'd won.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: And at that moment I got them that night, but it was the most defeated I had felt through that entire process.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: He definitely took them because he knew it would hurt me and he definitely kept them because he knew it would hurt me, and I think that he really thought that there might still be a chance for us.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: So he called me that afternoon and said I'll meet you if you want to get them.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: And so I met him, got the kids and I played the part.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I told him I loved him, I told him it was fine, I gave him a hug.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: You go back to your sisters, though.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I'm going to my mom's, so just go back to your sisters.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: And the moment I drove away I couldn't even breathe.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I thought did I really just do that?
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Did I really just get the kids?
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: And that was finite.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Like I knew at that point, I will never go back.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I did go back, but at that point I thought I can never be in this situation again.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: I can never do this again.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: So I don't know.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: I guess he thought that there was a glimmer of hope and that if he did this good deed and let me have the kids, that maybe we would still be together.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: So what led to the final goodbye?
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: We actually were divorced in May of 2009.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: So I left him in March and then, within 60 days, our divorce was finalized and I thought, okay, that's it, I'm done.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: From my teens I hadn't had the fun going out with my friends and I didn't get to go to the bar when I turned 21.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: There were so many things I thought that I had missed out on, but I thought, okay, I want to do something and have some fun.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: And so I met some girls and we started going out and having a good time and we lived near Austin, texas, at the time.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: And so one night we went to Sixth Street and one of my friends happened to see my ex-husband and, instead of just walking the other direction, she actually got him, brought him to the club that we were at.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: We're all drinking, we're all having a good time, and one thing led to another.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: And next thing, you know, I wake up and he's in my apartment with me.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: I was already planning on moving.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I was moving in a couple of months, so I'm thinking, okay, if he's going to stay here, then I know, in a couple months I can get him out then.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: But it was almost like it wasn't a decision that I made to go back.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: It almost felt like I had just been caged in again, like I had been hunted for so long.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: And he finally got me again.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: And I'm thinking how do I get out?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Because at that point, how do I tell my parents?
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Hey, he just woke up in my bed and so I felt like I was once again fighting this completely alone, and so we ended up.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: He stayed there for quite a while and when it was time for me to move to my new apartment, I got in and ended up making some really good friends who definitely were protecting me, who would sit outside of my door all hours of the night to make sure he didn't show up.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: And he did come knock on the door on Father's Day of 2010.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: And he knocked on my front door and then came and knocked on the window and the kids both looked at me and said Dad's here, and my heart just dropped.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: And here comes one of my really big guy who liked to look out for me.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: He walked around and he drove off and that was the end of it, never tried to come back around again, and there were definitely still interactions where he would try to send me messages or try to call me or try to make me mad through a friend just really childish behavior.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: But I was already so done when I left the first time and it didn't feel like a decision to be back with him.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: So I think it was almost like just planning a prison escape that second time of okay, how do I just get the ducks in the road to just get out again and stay out for good?
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: When your friend went and got him and brought him into the bar facility that you were at, did she have ill intent with that?
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Did she think that she was doing something?
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: good.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: She was actually one of the friends who I had already told and did not believe me.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: So she thought my ex-husband was very attractive, and so that's all she ever talked about was how hot he was.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: If I'm being real honest, I think that she brought him for her own benefit and it backfired in her face.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I think she was trying to make me mad by bringing him and having him dance with her, and that's not what he wanted, and so I think it was ill-intended, but not in the way that it ended up being.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: When the kids were saying Daddy's here was there fear of Daddy being there.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: My son always tried to feed off of our emotions and he would always look at his sister, so he would look at her to see how is she reacting, what is her face telling me?
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: He was very excited at first, and then he saw that she was not happy and so he quickly turned and then was he was like three or four at the time and was like go away, daddy, go away, daddy, just trying to.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: He had no idea what was going on.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: He was just trying to vibe off everybody else.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, my daughter definitely, and at that time it was shortly after that that I found out about her sexual abuse.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: It had been going on during the very few times that he would actually have visitations with the kids and it was shortly after that that I found out about that.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: So that was the last time that they ever saw him was father's day of 2010.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you just have to read and process things.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Did your son go through any abuse on his end other than, of course, witnessing and verbal?
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: He remembers one thing about the entire situation and that is that daddy threw your papers in the sink.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I went to cosmetology school and was putting together a lookbook and he did.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: He had ripped the pages out and threw them in the sink and turned the water on.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: That is the only thing that my son remembers from that entire situation.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: But I could almost guarantee that he was sexually abused as well.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Just, he's almost 18 now, but throughout his life there has been a lot of anger.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: There's been a lot of.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: We've had lots of counseling with both the kids but him especially, with anger and outbursts and he's ADHD.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: But there was questions of whether or not maybe he was bordering bipolar, just because he did not know why he was so mad.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: He just knew that he was.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And there was lots of things as he would get older and would hit puberty that I thought he I really, truly believe that he was sexually abused.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: He just doesn't remember it did I hear you correctly that he's in prison?
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: What led to that?
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: because that is not where.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: I realized the story was going so actually finding out what had happened to my daughter was a whole thing on its own, because he told her that if she ever told me that they would take her away from me, whoever they was, but they would take her away from me and she would never see me again.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: And so my parents actually lived in Ecuador at the time and they had flown in and they were staying with us, and she told my mom that this is what's happened to me.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: So my mom asked my daughter does your mother know?
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: And she said yes, because she thought if I tell her mom, no, she won't tell mom and then nobody will take me away from her.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: And so I get a phone call from my mom wondering why I know this and have done nothing about it.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: And it was just this whole conversation with her trying to figure out what she's actually telling me, trying to process this as she's trying to process what she's heard.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: That same afternoon we had multiple cops and detectives over at the house.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: They were asking questions, and so she had a forensic interview, and the only thing we told her was you just need to tell them the truth about what happened.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Of course they're wearing street clothes.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: They don't look like cops in this interview.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: And she's five years old and it does make me giggle now.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: But we walked out to the pickup and she climbs in.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: She had not said a word, she didn't open up at all, but she gets to the pickup and goes.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: I sure wish a cop would ask me what happened.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: And I thought, oh baby, that was the cops.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: She opened up to her counselor and then all of a sudden, counselors, family members, six or she's gone and she was our next hope to get it pushed forward, to get it taken care of.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: And honestly, at that point I just kept looking at my daughter thinking I'm just forcing you to go talk to people to relive this over and over, just so we can get some justice, and I can't keep doing that.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Had her in counseling, didn't care if they talked about it or not, just wanted her to get better and we just let it go.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: We forgot about it and I guess she was 10.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: She just came up to me one night.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I'm probably going to get emotional here.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: She came up to me one night and said I just feel like my heart's been locked up in jail and I want to tell somebody.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: And I said okay.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: So I took her to counseling and she opened up and said this is what's been on my mind and this is what happened and this is what's going on.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: And it started a process there.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: But it was fighting that I had already remarried at this point in time and we were trying to revoke my ex-husband's rights from the kids, and so we were going through that and then trying to deal with what she just opened up with again and ended up.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: My ex-husband had the option of you can either pay the $40,000 in back child support or sign over your rights, and so he selected to sign over his rights, and so my husband adopted my children and then, shortly after that, we got another phone call saying, okay, there's been somebody else that has spoken up and said that he's done something to them.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: And this wasn't the first I'd heard of this, because while we were married and I didn't believe it at the time, but while we were married we had gone out one night, left our friends.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: We had a bad altercation in the parking lot, so he didn't want his friends to see me with a black eye and a bloody nose, so we left them.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Their 12-year-old twin daughters were babysitting our kids and I wasn't allowed to go in the house to get the kids.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: He was in for a lot longer than he should have.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden I heard that he'd done things to those girls but nothing ever came of it.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: And so I thought surely not, surely he's not that guy.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: It was a pattern that I had heard of, ignored, didn't believe, and then all of a sudden, saw firsthand and saw it just getting out of control.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: And the moment my daughter realized that there's somebody else involved in this too, she said I don't care, I'm taking the stand.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: She was 10 years old and she was ready to go.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: She got up and she testified and he got a 40 year sentence.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was what year.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: This was in 2016.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: In 40 years, Do you and your daughter feel that justice has been served?
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I thought I did Some days I do Some days I think he's where he should be, but then other days I think he's still alive and I know that's so wrong, but I just feel like he has hurt so many people Through this process.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: We've learned of so many different women that he has abused after me and so many people that he has hurt and he's still breathing air and it's just so frustrating sometimes.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: And then the fear kind of sets in of what if he gets parole or what if he gets out early, and I don't think that's ever going to go away until I know that he's underground.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: But for the most part the fact that he's not walking around freely for right now it's the best justice we can have.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: You said your 10-year-old daughter saying her heart felt like it had been in jail.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: It hurts to hear an adult say that and the fact that a 10-year-old child knows how to put those words together.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as I'm painting her toenails, she's sitting in the living room and just all of a sudden comes out with that and I'm thinking, okay, what do we need to do?
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: As I'm internally freaking out, trying to keep my composure, because she's ready.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: She's so strong and she always has been.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: She got me through my marriage because, even though she shouldn't have been seeing any of it or hearing a thing, she was always running up to me, squeezing me tight.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: In just her own little way she protected me and I hate that she had to play that role, but she did, and she is the complete opposite of what you would think she would have grown up to be.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: It's just amazing watching her, yeah you're a good mom and you are a strong woman and you put your kids first, and even at the age when you were a baby, having a baby, for her to be at 10 years old, to be so in touch times like this is when I believe the whole like old soul kind of thing, like you've been here before.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: She was your daughter for a reason.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: That's where my mind goes with stories like this Absolutely, you're taught to in order to be a man.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: You don't cry, you shut everything down.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: You, if you're mad, you sit down and shut up and you're and drink a beer about it, or you and your buddy go out and fist fight about it, and that's what leads to the downfall of your mental health.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Within the last few years.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: He has always been somebody that you just have to know how to talk to, because a lot of kids, discipline works.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: But you got to find the right discipline and with him it was always the super calm.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: I'm at your level and I'm going to talk to you lovingly and tell you this is what you did and there are consequences.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: But you could not be super firm with him Because if you did, he would go off the rails and he has definitely come a very long way.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: But it has taken me a very long time to try to figure out how to help him not become a narcissist, because what he saw and because he felt like he couldn't express anything, and so I'm huge on if you need to cry, you cry.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: If you need to yell, you yell.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Both of my kids are still at home right now.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: They're 17 and 18 and they are at each other's throats constantly.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: But I always tell them vent to me.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: If you want to talk bad about your sister, talk bad about your sister.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: I will hear it because you need to get it off your chest.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: But don't ask me to fix it.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to fix it, but I will listen to it and I think it's helped him a lot to let go of some stuff, to feel like he can have feelings and he can feel a certain way.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: But there is still I think there's always going to be that lingering fear of is he ever going to get pushed to where he crosses the line just because of what he has been exposed to?
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: What terrifies me just in general is when people do not believe in mental health.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Even on my best days I still go see my therapist.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I agree with that completely.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Too many people don't think mental health is important or necessary or that they can do it on their own.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the biggest mistakes is trying to get through anything.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Even if you have no real trauma in your life you just might've had a bad day.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: You don't need to try to get through anything on your own because it just keeps piling up.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Absolutely own, because it just keeps piling up.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: And so I'm so glad that you, from the beginning, it doesn't seem that you ever had any reservations on therapy and having the kids be active and making that mental awareness a topic in your home.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: What an important conversation to have.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: It was such a life altering thing to go through that you will never be the same person that you were before, and that's okay as long as you have the resources, and I think that's.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: People need to see that side of it.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: They need to see that it was ugly and it was bad.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: You can get through it without forgetting about it, because it's probably not ever going to be over, but it's going to be better.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell people all the time I don't think that it is ever over and I know that sounds so scary, but I think in these situations is we learn to cope with it.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I know when I'm having a moment and I'll allow myself the time to explore that.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I have learned how to cope and manage and I've learned how to give myself permission and to be kind to myself.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, and that's so important.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: You have to be able to forgive yourself if you feel like you need to be forgiven, but you also have to be able to realize that not everything is your fault, and I think you are showing so many people that it is okay to still think about things, but it's what you do with the rest of your day that matters the most.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: We've had such an emotional rollercoaster of a ride.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: But let's talk about something positive for a minute.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: As we start closing out, you're building such a good, powerful community and platform on TikTok, so I guess this will be a two-part question A did you think this was going to happen?
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: And B what are you going to do with it now?
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: What are your goals with it?
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: So I really thought I'm going to put a video up and it might get 20 likes, maybe 200 views.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: I think that very first day the first video had 15,000 views.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: And I'm thinking what is going on?
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: People actually want to hear about this stuff.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: And so then my, my next thought was I bet the comments are probably going to be all ugly or you know how social media can be and surprisingly, it was the exact opposite.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: It was people reaching out, asking for help or asking questions or saying I've been there, or just giving sympathy, and so I thought, okay, I'll do another one.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: And then it did the same thing.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Never did I dream that it would pick up this traction.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I did not think it was going to go anywhere.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: I was a little embarrassed to start doing it because I thought I know eventually the people that I know are going to see it, and this is something that I do not have any secrets about.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: I will speak on any part of it.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: But I also don't just walk around and tell people hi, I'm Trish and I was abused.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: So there's still several people who are not close enough to me that don't know my story, and so there was a lot of wanting to hide in a corner and just not let anybody see me for a while, and then I think the good just really showed itself really quickly.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I really want to get to the point where I can travel and start talking to younger kids girls, boys, it doesn't matter.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: I think that's another thing that needs to be so pointed out is domestic violence almost always is looked at as the woman's being abused, and whether it's a heterosexual, homosexual, it doesn't matter what kind of relationship it is.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: But if it's a man and a woman married, that woman can still be the man.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: A man can still be abused by a woman, and there's just so many misconceptions to what domestic violence actually is and how it takes place, and I just want people to be more aware, more the outsiders, more the people who've never been involved who ask those questions that just hit a nerve and make you want to scream in their face.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: I want them to have a better understanding, because if they can understand better, then they can help people in that situation.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: The people in the situation need that support more than they need anything.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Have you thought about writing a book or anything?
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: So I'm actually in the middle of writing a book.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I started about two years ago and then I just completely stopped dead in my tracks about a year ago and my daughter has been on my case about it.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: So I'm hoping within maybe the next six months I'll have it finished.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Trish, you inspire me and I watch your videos and you're so beautiful, you're so well-spoken, you're doing the hard things and I'm so glad that our paths crossed and that one day I'm going to turn on the TV and you're going to be in Times Square like promoting your bestselling book, and I'll be like, oh, I was her very first podcast.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Very first Tell all of us, where we can follow you on TikTok and any message that maybe you want to throw out to the listeners.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: So you can find me on TikTok at in the mind of me and I think the most important thing is, if you watch the videos, first and foremost, know that it is for me trying to help other people.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: I hate so much when people feel sorry for me or have so much sympathy for me because I'm okay, I have moved past it and I'm okay.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: So I want to work with other people to get everybody else where I'm at and where you're at today.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: And I think the most important thing is have an open mind, do not assume about any situation and if you think that somebody might be going through something, then start asking the right questions and get some help.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Just don't let people suffer in silence.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: I want to extend my deepest gratitude to our incredible guests for sharing their transformative journey with us today.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Join us next week as we dive into the healing process and share more incredible stories of triumph and resilience.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Now I'm back and I'll pray for you.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I'm done hurting.