Latest / SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day! / Yoreh De’ah 177:23-28. Interest: Business Dealings, Investor and Managing Partner; Contracts

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Yoreh De’ah 177:23-28. Interest: Business Dealings, Investor and Managing Partner; Contracts · SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day!

• 0:00
  OK, good morning. We are continuing here at Helkos
• 0:02
  Ribes Kuf Einsine now thanks to Rimosha.
• 0:07
  So I just want to re explain the Kuf Gilmo.
• 0:12
  Well, you don't have to read it inside again, but let's re
• 0:18
  explain. The way I explained the day
• 0:20
  before was not accurate, at least not according to the
• 0:23
  Shalhanarak and the Rambam, which is is the same.
• 0:29
  OK, a little bit of a Mochocus Rishonim, how to explain that
• 0:32
  Gemara. But let's go like this.
• 0:35
  You have the the two partners, the managing partner of the
• 0:42
  flock and then they get offspring.
• 0:45
  So the first 3050 days, he needs to take care of it.
• 0:49
  You know, it's his obligation. That's the Minnog.
• 0:52
  But whatever the Minnog is fine when it comes time to do the
• 0:56
  Khaluka, right? When it comes time to make the
• 0:59
  division, you know you have to wait, you're fine.
• 1:04
  It goes like this. It does not.
• 1:05
  This is according to the the Rambam and the Shakhanar.
• 1:08
  It's all based on the Gemara, right?
• 1:09
  How you understand the Gemara? So the Allah is it does not atom
• 1:13
  automatically go to 3/4. It automatically goes to Khetzi
• 1:19
  Khetzi. They stay with the same
• 1:22
  arrangement as before. It's Khetzi, Khetzi until until
• 1:28
  they do, he tells, he tells the other person that he cares about
• 1:35
  his half to make the profit or he actually get it assessed and
• 1:42
  they actually divide it. And in other words, he being the
• 1:48
  shepherd, the shepherd is the mitasi is the one who's the
• 1:51
  managing partner, right? He said he right.
• 1:55
  So he only gets 3/4 after the period of time and after he
• 2:04
  shows that's the way that Rahman explains, he shows that he cares
• 2:08
  about making the extra 25% the the profit, yeah, the the
• 2:16
  profit, the extra 25% from the profit of the offspring we're
• 2:20
  talking about. So that's the because if he
• 2:24
  doesn't, if he doesn't do the Khaluka and he doesn't say that
• 2:28
  he cares about it, the assumption is he doesn't really
• 2:32
  care about that extra 25% from, from the baby offspring, the the
• 2:37
  calves or whatever they are. So that's the and then only once
• 2:41
  he is, he does the Khaluka, he shows that he cares or he says
• 2:45
  that he cares. So then he's able to get it.
• 2:48
  There is another possibility why he needs to do the Khaluka.
• 2:51
  Not necessarily according to the Chauhanarth is because until
• 2:55
  they do an assessment, they don't know how much or which
• 3:00
  part of the animal necessarily belongs to who.
• 3:03
  Anyway, let's just we'll leave that other shot.
• 3:05
  That's probably not. And Itaz explains that as well.
• 3:09
  Can either one so they could force the Khaluka after the time
• 3:21
  period of 30 or 50 days, correct.
• 3:24
  But in order to force it, either one can force it as far as I
• 3:28
  believe, but only they can only force it after the 30 or 50
• 3:33
  days. And until they do that they're
• 3:36
  he doesn't get his extra 25%. So when you read the Sholkhanar,
• 3:41
  the last line of the shul Khanarak is explaining you kind
• 3:45
  of have to the way that it's written in the Rambam.
• 3:48
  It's to me it's a lot more clear and in the order you'll see it
• 3:51
  here. This the end you have to like
• 3:54
  put back in the beginning he's explaining and what the and so
• 3:58
  the Rama is basically just saying how to understand the
• 4:02
  Shul Khanarak according to the Rambam, and therefore he says
• 4:05
  ain't no no tell marks the Shava Kamal Barishona and of Edo Noto
• 4:11
  rock. You only get the 50% like the
• 4:15
  original isca, right? This is all based on the
• 4:17
  original isca where everybody makes 5050% until they do the
• 4:20
  Kaluka. OK, when you read it inside
• 4:22
  it'll be clear. We'll ask questions more
• 4:26
  questions after cough Dalit annotating isca la Cavero.
• 4:31
  OK, now we're doing an isca. Each one gets 5050 normal,
• 4:36
  right? The annotating isca la Cavero LO
• 4:39
  yitzarev Areva IMA Karen via seculo Karen.
• 4:45
  What you're not allowed to do, it's probably obvious, but what
• 4:48
  you're not allowed to do is when you give the loan, the two of
• 4:52
  you decide, well, we expect how much profit you're going to make
• 4:57
  and therefore the profit that you're going to make and the
• 5:01
  portion that you're going to pay me, we'll all call it Karen,
• 5:07
  right? The two of them are the partners
• 5:09
  and they're expecting that each one is going to make each one is
• 5:12
  going to make, let's say, 10% profit.
• 5:14
  So if he gives 100, he says, let's just call 110 the care and
• 5:19
  the principal, and that's how much you're going to pay me.
• 5:23
  But that's not what he's doing. So you can't just arbitrarily,
• 5:27
  you know, rename what you want to do because the Shamma Loyeko
• 5:32
  Khrava because if you don't end up with the prophet and the
• 5:36
  guy's hired to pay you 110 because you like included the
• 5:41
  ribis kilo in your in in the name Karen in the principal
• 5:46
  investment. But Lamaisa Venemsa no Tamimeno
• 5:51
  repeat it comes out you're you're taking repeat.
• 5:54
  Yes, all this is ribis, the avak ribis, but it comes out you gave
• 5:59
  100 and now you're guaranteed 110 and he's giving you 110.
• 6:03
  So the fact that you decide to call it Karen, it's false.
• 6:08
  It's not true. That's that's Rivas and it's an
• 6:14
  Iska, I believe. So in general, we're assuming,
• 6:22
  yeah, it's a Kabita Haram. It doesn't turn it into Rivas.
• 6:25
  I believe it's only well, they're still he's still hired
• 6:30
  for hats. You have said it's it's it's
• 6:34
  meant as an as a business deal. Yeah.
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  OK, Rahane, let's go on. Rahane lo E Tain lo Mao vitora
• 6:45
  ASIC Oh shirtless Also, when you when you give money for this and
• 6:53
  you're giving him money for an investment or you'll be giving
• 6:56
  money as A to a somebody together in an investment as a
• 7:01
  shoot off and you have a star in the star.
• 7:05
  Don't write the Tovotan Milva. Don't write in the star.
• 7:10
  It's a Milva. Why?
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  Because Shama Yamut, perhaps you know the two of you know what
• 7:17
  you're doing and you want to be honest and not do any violations
• 7:20
  of Ribbus. But you have a deal over here.
• 7:23
  There's money being transferred. You have a star and let's say
• 7:26
  one of the Part 1 of the partners, you know, both
• 7:30
  whatever they die and Venim Sahashtar Biade Yarish and the
• 7:36
  the the right, the Malva. I believe over here the the the
• 7:40
  noting the investors going to have the kids are going to have
• 7:43
  the Shtar his contract and it's going to say it's a Melva.
• 7:46
  So what do you see? You have to pay him.
• 7:49
  But the golden bow Atari beat and it could be doesn't mean you
• 7:54
  will be. It could be that it's going to
• 8:00
  turn out you're paying Ribbus, for example, if there's a loss
• 8:05
  in the business. So then you have to pay less,
• 8:09
  you have to pay less of the Karen, right?
• 8:12
  If the, if the investment went sour and they're sharing the
• 8:17
  loss, then you have to give that loss that much less to the, to
• 8:23
  the, to the Yorkshire, because that was the deal.
• 8:25
  It wasn't it was an ASIC, an ISCA.
• 8:28
  It was not Amalvis. Amalvis.
• 8:31
  You can't mislabel it. Otherwise it's going to be, I
• 8:35
  don't know if the word is Gezel, but it's going to be like ribis,
• 8:41
  OK? That's it's going to be a
• 8:42
  problem, that's for sure. OK.
• 8:45
  It looks like Ribis. If it's also Gezel, I'm not sure
• 8:48
  maybe, but it does look like Ribis and so it's a problem.
• 8:51
  OK, can so you can't yet. It's important to when you write
• 8:54
  a contract, you use the correct wording.
• 8:57
  OK, next Talaka. OK, back to a regular case of an
• 9:02
  iska. OK, you have two partners, the
• 9:04
  investor and the manager, Kafei in Katubbishtar.
• 9:10
  Now it says in the star haloga bakar ubahefsid.
• 9:14
  Is that right? Or bhagar means biskar?
• 9:17
  Basically, they share the profits and they share the
• 9:20
  losses if you have this kind of a wording in the contract.
• 9:26
  So the problem is in the wording of this contract, they didn't
• 9:31
  put in the clause of you subtract from the Prophet the
• 9:37
  scar of him working the scar Tirca, right?
• 9:42
  If you don't put in the clause of the scar TIRCA review from a
• 9:46
  few days ago, then it'll come out that that itself is
• 9:50
  considered ribbus on the half of the Malva that he's making free
• 9:53
  profit off of, right? That's the way it was set up is
• 9:56
  paga malva, paga ribis. So this Carter has to be paid
• 10:00
  and here it wasn't. So what happens?
• 10:04
  So it depends. IMA no TE, no Macabo, Adam Gado.
• 10:07
  If one of these two people, the investors are tell me they are
• 10:11
  coming all right. Adam Gado.
• 10:14
  However it's defined, we are do a Shalohaya is a Rebbe and we
• 10:18
  know this person. He knows about Hakos Ribis and
• 10:21
  he knows it's scrupulous about being madoptic and mitzvahs.
• 10:24
  He will never violate Ribbus. So we do we're we judge it in
• 10:29
  his favor. And so the star is written right
• 10:36
  or palgareva, whatever, but you don't put in the cause of So
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  what do we do? We're going to we're going to
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  done the star and we're going to assume that it was he meant that
• 10:50
  for As for it to be kosher, a correct start that he's able to
• 10:54
  make profit and there's no ribis problems.
• 10:57
  So how do we handle it? What do we do Lamar in Utah Now
• 11:03
  here it's a little different, Shah points out.
• 11:06
  Normally we learned in the beginning of the Simon, if it's
• 11:09
  not written down a Palga, it's just all done as a business
• 11:15
  deal. We make the assumption and we
• 11:17
  deduct for you Schartierka and they can specify how much it is
• 11:22
  Scharbatal shtus, whatever the case is we we did before.
• 11:27
  But basically we subtract for him here, right?
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  And they can even stipulate on a dinar or a dollar.
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  But here nothing was stipulated. And here it's written in a
• 11:38
  contract Palga. So it's we treat it a little bit
• 11:41
  differently and since it's all in the star, it looks more like
• 11:45
  Ribbus if we just subtract the the PO al bata.
• 11:53
  So that's fine. So how do we handle it?
• 12:03
  So we say like this, if he wants to take half the profit, that's
• 12:07
  fine, but then he has to lose 2/3 of the Akaias.
• 12:12
  So his scar tirca is the fact that the Mitasek is only going
• 12:18
  to lose 1/3 and the investor's going to lose 2/3 if the
• 12:23
  business goes sour. So for that risk, the benefit of
• 12:28
  that risk, that's his scar tirca.
• 12:32
  OK, the IM Loya Kabbalah of Alhazia Jayas, but if you only
• 12:37
  want to accept 50% of the loss, that's also fine.
• 12:41
  Shaloyito Ella Shlisravach and is only allowed to take 1/3 of
• 12:45
  the profit and he gives the other guy 2/3 of the manager,
• 12:50
  the shepherd if it would be. But here it's just whatever,
• 12:54
  whatever the case is, the managing partner gets 2/3.
• 12:59
  OK, about right. So that's the so your makayam,
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  the words of Palga and you're also Makayam.
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  That's not an equal split because it can't be an equal
• 13:09
  split. And that solves it, right?
• 13:12
  If each one, the mathematics is, if each one is its sixth.
• 13:16
  So then effectively from the whole picture, it becomes a
• 13:19
  third. All right.
• 13:20
  We discussed that before. Ava, the Inish, Arkrina,
• 13:25
  Deloitte, Khazak, Bahaji. If it's two guys who are not so
• 13:30
  from, then they don't necessarily even know or care
• 13:34
  about Ribis. So what do we say the I need on
• 13:37
  the star kepshate, right? So we'll read the star like the
• 13:41
  Pshat that they wrote and meant exactly 50% Ravach and exactly
• 13:47
  50% have said, because that is the shot the Havilesh star
• 13:53
  Shyeshbo rebeat and therefore it's like a star that you wrote
• 13:57
  of ribis. Again, it's avak rebeat.
• 14:00
  The Yesh have said you have see the Ketzi Kefi Tenao and if
• 14:05
  there's a loss, you'll lose half.
• 14:08
  According to The Tonight. That's what it says in the
• 14:09
  contract Vimyeshvo revach Loya Kabel kum.
• 14:14
  But all the profits go to the managing partner.
• 14:18
  The investor gets nothing because if he gets anything from
• 14:22
  the package, it's all looked at one big package and the whole
• 14:26
  thing is looked upon as avacravis, the managing partner.
• 14:32
  No. So I'll review.
• 14:33
  There's only. No, there's only two.
• 14:37
  There's only two people. I'll explain to you from the
• 14:39
  beginning if you like, afterwards.
• 14:41
  But we've been saying the same thing all along.
• 14:43
  You weren't here from the very beginning.
• 14:45
  But there's always two-part these cases.
• 14:47
  There's always two partners. There's one investor and one
• 14:51
  manager. The shepherd is a man.
• 14:53
  OK, You want to listen? That's fine.
• 14:55
  Hagah vahain huadin. Behold iska shenasabeh Isa.
• 15:00
  And therefore the whole esik, when any and when any esik is
• 15:06
  done inappropriately, the bhalakha is the investor gets
• 15:10
  nothing because then it can look like ribis and the the one who's
• 15:15
  working the managing partner gets all the profit.
• 15:19
  OK, Kafa, the Heika Shahu, Adam Gadal Dainen and the Hatera.
• 15:26
  Now we said that with an Adam Gado, we'll judge it favourably
• 15:31
  Lehatter that it was done permissibly.
• 15:33
  So we said like this Imish Bareva and there is a profit,
• 15:37
  the Amar Han noteen. So the investor when we gave the
• 15:41
  money, he says Aniyah tohatzi miyat.
• 15:44
  I want to get the Khatzi right now.
• 15:47
  But yeah, Bo have said, and if afterwards we find out, you
• 15:50
  know, as they go along, I want to take my full half of the
• 15:53
  profits. And if we find out that there's
• 15:55
  a hapsid, so as a kabela khayyut, I havesid shne
• 15:58
  khalakhim. So he says I'm going to take 2/3
• 16:02
  of the hapsid. That's fine.
• 16:04
  All right, That's basically what we just said.
• 16:07
  Oh, Emyesh bahevsid omera enima kabela khetsi.
• 16:09
  I have said, or if I want to, he says right away, I if there's a
• 16:16
  hapsid, I only want to be responsible for two for half of
• 16:19
  the hapsid. I don't want to risk that much.
• 16:22
  All right, as long as we have an equal stake in the game.
• 16:25
  I know you're going to be more careful.
• 16:27
  So I only want or I could only afford to lose half.
• 16:29
  I only want to get lose half. Well, the cashier Bo Reva.
• 16:32
  And then when it comes to get the profits, OK, I understand
• 16:35
  there has to be so Loa Kabel, Ella Hashlish.
• 16:38
  So I'm only going to get 1/3 of the Prophet.
• 16:42
  We have Macabo, Omar Behaf, but the Macabos is just the
• 16:45
  opposite. If it's profits, I want 2/3 the
• 16:52
  E Miebo Hefsid, the Kabel Allah Hetziak riot and if there's a
• 16:57
  prophet, so then we'll do 5050. Oh Imeshbo, I have said.
• 17:03
  Or if there's a Hefsid, I'm only willing to lose 1/3 because Shia
• 17:07
  Reva. And if there's a prophet, so I'm
• 17:11
  willing to take half because I only want to lose risk 1/3.
• 17:16
  So what do you do? Each one is wants it his way.
• 17:20
  So it's just like this look at the star in KATU Bishtar, right?
• 17:25
  This is all one long continuation of Kafe.
• 17:28
  So if it says in Ishtar the the words basically the Yahiv mare
• 17:33
  iska le macabel palga BA AKA UB hasid, that the mare the BA al I
• 17:39
  could be written in Hebrew too, that the the Baal of the Iskar
• 17:43
  the investor is giving Palga BA AKA ba hasid.
• 17:47
  So then Mashma if the right the the action verb is going
• 17:53
  attached to the investor in the contract depends out.
• 17:56
  You just have to read out read the contract.
• 17:58
  However, it sounds like it's worded so it's Mashma in that
• 18:02
  wording that the investor, the Milta Bimari iska khaimah.
• 18:07
  Sorry, the the Milta Bimari iska khaimah.
• 18:12
  It sounds like it's all dependent on the investor Ubidi
• 18:16
  Day Talia Milta, and so therefore it's dependent on him
• 18:20
  to decide which he prefers. You let we let him choose which
• 18:24
  of the two options. But I tell you Milta Lemaita of
• 18:29
  the macabre to decide what he gets and what he gets.
• 18:34
  Each one gets the E Katube Lamishka.
• 18:39
  But if it would have said in the contract that he gets to take it
• 18:42
  gets to take the half. So then who's that?
• 18:45
  That's obviously referring to the Mitasek or the Makabel, the
• 18:49
  managing partner. So then Mashima de Hamakabel,
• 18:52
  Talia Meltel and Mishka Maidubai.
• 18:54
  So then he gets to choose how the split happens.
• 18:57
  All right, let's you read the contract and then you figure it
• 19:00
  out. Who should take it.
• 19:02
  OK, Kaf Zine IM hits new alka Lucas.
• 19:09
  I have said, let's say they stipulated how they're going to
• 19:12
  divide the profits, but they didn't stipulate how they're
• 19:15
  going to divide the hefsid. So we say EM yes, sham hefsid
• 19:20
  Yafsid Hamid Asik Schneische. So we say the hefs it turn and
• 19:29
  it turns out that there is a hefsid.
• 19:31
  So we say the managing partner, if he was going to get 2/3 of
• 19:40
  the profit, so we say he's going to lose 2/3.
• 19:43
  It's it's an equal risk benefit. The hen in hit knew alkalukas, A
• 19:50
  hapsid Velohita knew alkalukas. However, if they stipulated how
• 19:55
  they're going to divide the hapsid, but didn't stipulate how
• 19:57
  they're going to divide the profits, but they only
• 20:05
  stipulated the hapsid. So then hitokumo Otto Akhelek
• 20:09
  Shahiya masid. So then they.
• 20:13
  They divided according to the same way they divided the
• 20:16
  hefsid, that's how they divide the prophets the Tosefich leish
• 20:21
  khelik, khalaq averro and he gets an extra 1/3 of the khelik
• 20:30
  of his caveiro which is the the 6th kaitzai.
• 20:33
  So how does this play out? IM hitenu they make it as they
• 20:37
  stipulate Shiito Amit Asik Rivia Haskar he's going to get 1/4 of
• 20:43
  the scar let's say so veloy tanu Allah hapsid and he doesn't hit
• 20:47
  tanu on the hapsid IM hibsid harizim mishalim shtus.
• 20:52
  So then he has to pay a 6th the IM Hitnu Shiyafsidah Mesasik
• 20:59
  Reviah the Hapsid and if he makes it tonight that the
• 21:02
  mapsidah is going to get that means are the managers going to
• 21:09
  lose 1/4? Perhaps it the Lloyd Nuala
• 21:13
  Rabach imerviac no tell Mehsa. So then he actually gets Mehsa.
• 21:19
  The difference is because he gets the scar tierka.
• 21:27
  That's the the difference. OK, let's let's see if we go on
• 21:31
  one more. Should we stop but go away?
• 21:37
  I'm going to read this one last one real quick because it's a
• 21:43
  quick one. KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA
• 21:48
  KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA
• 21:54
  KOA KOA KOA KOA KOA koaun. Let's say they they make an
• 21:59
  agreement that if the investor loses 2/3, but it'll only take
• 22:08
  1/3 of the profit. So when you make an unfair risk
• 22:14
  benefit ratio of the well, he's willing to take a an unequal
• 22:20
  Hefsid and Reva. He's willing to whenever you do
• 22:24
  that, he's that is the Skhartircha.
• 22:27
  The fact that you're willing to make the the the meet Asik is
• 22:33
  more likely to benefit That's he's really he's taking a
• 22:36
  chance, but he's willing to take a better a chance to make more
• 22:39
  profit. That's called this Khartirchha.
• 22:42
  And therefore, if there's no revach and no have said,
• 22:47
  everyone walks away and he doesn't have to pay this
• 22:50
  Khartirchha on top of it because he already got his Khartirchha
• 22:54
  in the form of the risk of making more profit.
• 22:58
  A volume Heaton or the Max of as far as Max of the Hapsid, but a
• 23:00
  normal case of 5050 both on the revach, both on the Hapsid Velo
• 23:04
  Ayasham revach. Hello Hapsid.
• 23:06
  Anytime you have this kind of an ISKCON, there's no profit and no
• 23:09
  loss. So then you go back, you give
• 23:12
  back all of the Karen minus no Tell me that's like scar Omak
• 23:15
  Karen. But then you have to before it.
• 23:17
  When he returns the money, he returns all of it, but his
• 23:20
  salary basically OK.