Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Gretchen Whitmer On Supreme Court Legitimacy, Debate Advice For Biden, Governing Detroit + New Book

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INTERVIEW: Gretchen Whitmer On Supreme Court Legitimacy, Debate Advice For Biden, Governing Detroit + New Book · The Breakfast Club

0:00
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning.
0:02
Speaker 2: The breakfast Club Morning.
0:05
Speaker 1: Everybody in is DJ n V Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy.
0:08
Speaker 1: We are to breakfast Club. We got a special guest
0:10
Speaker 1: in the building. Yes, indeed we have the Governor, Gretchen Whitmer.
0:14
Speaker 3: Welcome, Thank you, I'm glad to be here.
0:16
Speaker 2: How are you feeling. I'm feeling good, feeling good? Would
0:18
Speaker 2: you like some tequila this morning? Are the two early?
0:20
Speaker 3: You know, I don't good. Tequila's fine any time of day,
0:23
Speaker 3: but I'm not going to start my day all that
0:24
Speaker 3: way today.
0:26
Speaker 1: I don't know if she wants because she can't keep
0:28
Speaker 1: it down. Since has that stuck with you your whole life?
0:34
Speaker 1: Like that one story and everybody always talks about that
0:36
Speaker 1: one thing.
0:37
Speaker 3: Well, you know, obviously what you're talking about is or
0:40
Speaker 3: I drank too much when I was in high school
0:41
Speaker 3: and you should have been drinking that at that young
0:43
Speaker 3: age anyway. But I got caught drinking at a high
0:47
Speaker 3: school football game. I was passed out. My principal came
0:50
Speaker 3: upon me and I tossed my cookies on him, and uh,
0:54
Speaker 3: you know, it was kind of a notorious thing at
0:56
Speaker 3: the time. Everyone in school knew what happened. I got suspended,
0:59
Speaker 3: I got in big trouble. My mother wanted to kill me.
1:02
Speaker 3: But you know, I tell that story in my book
1:03
Speaker 3: because it was that moment where I screwed up. But
1:07
Speaker 3: I learned a lot and got my act together started,
1:10
Speaker 3: you know, taking my academics more seriously. I had to
1:13
Speaker 3: because I was at home for a month grounded. But
1:16
Speaker 3: I'm sure, yeah, we learned when we screw up. If
1:22
Speaker 3: you're if you're a person who evolves and you've learned
1:25
Speaker 3: from it, then screw ups have value, right, So got
1:29
Speaker 3: my act together, went to MSU, got into law school,
1:32
Speaker 3: and learned kind of a lesson that if you surround
1:34
Speaker 3: yourself by great people, it helps you achieve what you
1:38
Speaker 3: want to. You learn from smart people, and that's kind
1:41
Speaker 3: of been a philosophy of my life, but also how
1:44
Speaker 3: I've governed. And in the story, you know, in the book,
1:46
Speaker 3: True Gretcha, I talk a lot about people like doctor
1:49
Speaker 3: Joan A. Kalduton, who was my chief medical executive during COVID,
1:55
Speaker 3: and I'm proud, you know, we've got one of the
1:57
Speaker 3: most diverse cabinets in state history in Michigan. And when
2:01
Speaker 3: you empower people and have real representation, empowered representation, you
2:05
Speaker 3: can get a lot of good stuff done. And I
2:08
Speaker 3: think that drinking story was maybe the beginning of my
2:12
Speaker 3: learning that when you to surround yourself by good people.
2:16
Speaker 1: As a mom, what do you tell your kids?
2:18
Speaker 2: Right?
2:18
Speaker 1: Because your kids are going to make mistakes. Right, you
2:19
Speaker 1: have two daughters, and all I would say if I
2:22
Speaker 1: was your daughter's mom, what about you in high school?
2:24
Speaker 1: So what do you tell your kids?
2:25
Speaker 3: Well, that's why I didn't tell them till after they
2:27
Speaker 3: were out of high school. But you know, you know,
2:30
Speaker 3: I mean, we're all human, and we got to see
2:32
Speaker 3: the humanity in one another. We all fall short on occasion.
2:34
Speaker 3: We got to hope that you learn from from those times.
2:38
Speaker 3: And I think that's what I've tried to instill in
2:40
Speaker 3: my own kids. They've made their own mistakes. But you
2:43
Speaker 3: know what, Fortunately for my generation, we didn't all have
2:47
Speaker 3: cell phones, we weren't all recording as it wasn't something
2:49
Speaker 3: that you had a receipt that you had to carry
2:51
Speaker 3: with you the rest of your life. And that's one
2:53
Speaker 3: of the things I tried to encourage my kids to,
2:55
Speaker 3: you know, give other people grace, give yourself a little grace,
2:58
Speaker 3: and put that damn phone down.
3:00
Speaker 2: Only had two more questions about that topic. Number one,
3:03
Speaker 2: what was you drinking as a teenager? Right? And did
3:05
Speaker 2: you get suspended for actually drinking or throwing up on
3:07
Speaker 2: the principal vodka?
3:09
Speaker 3: It was vodka, it was easier to come by, and
3:13
Speaker 3: the you know, I gouts suspended for drinking, okay, but
3:17
Speaker 3: I'm sure throwing up didn't help my cause.
3:21
Speaker 2: I also like, did you kept your book true gritch
3:23
Speaker 2: what I've learned about life, leadership and everything between. I
3:26
Speaker 2: like that you kept it short and it's the easy read.
3:28
Speaker 2: Did you do that on purpose? Yeah?
3:30
Speaker 3: You know, Charlamagne, one of the things that I get
3:32
Speaker 3: asked the most, whether I'm traveling across Michigan or outside
3:36
Speaker 3: of Michigan, is how do I stay positive? You know?
3:39
Speaker 3: I ran for reelection and a lot of people said,
3:41
Speaker 3: why do you want to keep doing this? You know,
3:43
Speaker 3: on my first term, I dealt with a pandemic, a
3:47
Speaker 3: president who targeted me, plot to kidney and kill me,
3:52
Speaker 3: twenty eight recall attempts, dealt with flooding in Midland that
3:57
Speaker 3: wiped out dams and bridges way to ten thousand people
4:01
Speaker 3: in the middle of the night in the middle of
4:02
Speaker 3: a pandemic, dealt with all the hate that that came
4:06
Speaker 3: my way, and it was an understandable question, you know,
4:09
Speaker 3: rational people said, why do you want to keep doing this?
4:12
Speaker 3: And so this book really is that. It is kind
4:17
Speaker 3: of a handbook ten things I've learned in my life
4:20
Speaker 3: at different times in my life that I have used
4:22
Speaker 3: in situation that I've had to navigate as governor. And
4:27
Speaker 3: you know, I want to give people maybe you can
4:28
Speaker 3: get a laugh at my expense about the drinking or
4:31
Speaker 3: knocking my teeth out. I talk about that in the
4:32
Speaker 3: book too. Maybe there's a lesson that will give someone
4:35
Speaker 3: some inspiration when they're navigating a hard time, whether it's
4:38
Speaker 3: in the workplace or in their private life, or maybe
4:41
Speaker 3: it's just a little light reading. And what I know
4:43
Speaker 3: is a heavy time for a lot of folks, all
4:46
Speaker 3: of us, right, And so that's really what it's about,
4:48
Speaker 3: trying to put a little light out in the world
4:50
Speaker 3: in a damn dark time.
4:52
Speaker 2: It feels like a Judy Bloom book in a way.
4:55
Speaker 3: I don't know what that means yet.
4:58
Speaker 2: I'm a huge It just feels like a adult, adult
5:02
Speaker 2: Judy Bloom book.
5:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's nice. That's a I'll take that as a
5:05
Speaker 3: compliment because I think you know I'm Yeah, I'm a
5:11
Speaker 3: real person. You know, I'm an ordinary person. I got
5:13
Speaker 3: an extraordinary job, I'm serving an extraordinary time. But I
5:17
Speaker 3: am a you know, I'm a human being too. I've
5:19
Speaker 3: got my shortcomings, I've I've got things I've learned along
5:23
Speaker 3: the way, and there's something that that I can share
5:26
Speaker 3: that might give help someone. That's really what it's all about.
5:29
Speaker 2: Why would you ever release a book during a presidential election.
5:32
Speaker 2: It's got to be a very awkward time, especially now
5:34
Speaker 2: with everybody talking about wanting Biden to step down, have
5:37
Speaker 2: to be a very awquet time.
5:38
Speaker 3: Well, obviously, when you write a book, you have no
5:40
Speaker 3: idea what is going to be happening by the time
5:42
Speaker 3: that book comes out.
5:43
Speaker 2: You know it's gonna be a psidential election.
5:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did. I did, And that's why I wrote
5:46
Speaker 3: it because I knew this was going to be heavy time.
5:48
Speaker 3: I knew it was gonna be hard. You knew the
5:50
Speaker 3: matchup was going to be Donald Trump and Joe Biden again,
5:52
Speaker 3: and I thought, you know, people are going to want
5:54
Speaker 3: some some encouragement, and that's what I what I try
5:57
Speaker 3: to spread.
5:58
Speaker 1: Did you did you speak Biden before his debate? Right,
6:01
Speaker 1: because you talk about your previous debates and how you were,
6:04
Speaker 1: you were loose, you were people looked at you as
6:05
Speaker 1: an ordinary person. They felt relatable. But I think sometimes
6:08
Speaker 1: people don't see that with Biden. Did you have those
6:10
Speaker 1: conversations with him to be like, loosen up a little
6:12
Speaker 1: bit or did you have those conversations any pep talks.
6:15
Speaker 3: I didn't, and you know, in retrospect, maybe you know
6:18
Speaker 3: that was a missed opportunity on my part. I tell
6:21
Speaker 3: the story in the book. You know, I was running
6:23
Speaker 3: for governor the first time in two thousand and we
6:29
Speaker 3: I've traveled all across the state. I was getting ready
6:32
Speaker 3: for my first debate. Emily's List, you know, a great
6:34
Speaker 3: organization that helps women candidates, sent a debate coach to
6:39
Speaker 3: come talk with me. And the debate coach, I'm always
6:41
Speaker 3: interested in learning more, how can I do better? He
6:45
Speaker 3: it was a man, which kind of ironic, right, your
6:47
Speaker 3: Emily's List, those organization sending a man and give me tips.
6:51
Speaker 3: But you know, he gave me a lot of good,
6:53
Speaker 3: good pointers. But one of the things he said was
6:55
Speaker 3: the happy warrior wins every debate. Whoever looks like they're
6:59
Speaker 3: having the most on is the winner, no matter what
7:01
Speaker 3: people say. And I thought it was interesting. And his
7:04
Speaker 3: tip was, you know, go in and remember to be
7:06
Speaker 3: the happy warrior. So as soon as you get to
7:07
Speaker 3: your podium, put a happy face on top of your papers.
7:12
Speaker 3: And anyone who's ever been told to smile knows it
7:15
Speaker 3: has the opposite effect. You tell me to smile, it
7:17
Speaker 3: pisses me off. I'm not going to smile. So I'm like,
7:19
Speaker 3: I'm never going to write a happy a smiley face
7:21
Speaker 3: on the top. So I was thinking, what's going to
7:23
Speaker 3: put me in the happy warrior frame of mind? So
7:26
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks before the first debate, we went
7:28
Speaker 3: to go see Kevin Hart at LCA in downtown Detroit
7:33
Speaker 3: and he had a number of folks to open up
7:34
Speaker 3: for him, and niam Lynn gave this great be this
7:39
Speaker 3: great observation that women are a lot more bold today
7:43
Speaker 3: back in the day. Yeah, back in the day. You know,
7:46
Speaker 3: if a woman was menstruating, she'd be real shy about
7:48
Speaker 3: talking about it. You say, come on, you know, I
7:50
Speaker 3: want to come over and get together, and she'd say, oh,
7:52
Speaker 3: you know, my aunt's in town. Like ant flow, right,
7:55
Speaker 3: didn't want to say it, but just wanted to communicate it.
7:58
Speaker 3: He said, today when you say I'm want to come
8:00
Speaker 3: over and see you, and at that time a month
8:01
Speaker 3: woman said you're not coming over. It's shark week, motherfucker.
8:05
Speaker 3: And I thought that the funniest. I mean, I laughed
8:09
Speaker 3: my butt off, and I thought that is going to
8:11
Speaker 3: put me in the happy warrior mosent. No shark week, motherfucker,
8:17
Speaker 3: let me go. So I went in and wrote that
8:21
Speaker 3: at the top of my paper, s wm MF. And
8:24
Speaker 3: that kept me loose and and funny. And my colleague
8:28
Speaker 3: was all buttoned up and he said, oh, you know,
8:29
Speaker 3: I'm Bill Shooty on duty. And I said, welcome to
8:32
Speaker 3: Shark week, you know. And it just kept me loose
8:35
Speaker 3: and happy. And I got caught on a hot mic
8:37
Speaker 3: mouthing the word motherfucker. And it was during the Democratic
8:41
Speaker 3: National Convention, and I was just off beside myself that
8:44
Speaker 3: someone sent out that footage because it was virtual.
8:48
Speaker 2: Like I always wonder how much prep is too much
8:49
Speaker 2: prepp because I always say, the language of politics today,
8:52
Speaker 2: so if that is how you talk, why can you
8:55
Speaker 2: not communicate like that? Because that's how most of America.
8:58
Speaker 3: Speaks I think you're right. I think you're right, and
9:00
Speaker 3: so like my first and my initial reaction was, oh man,
9:03
Speaker 3: this came out and it'll it'll.
9:05
Speaker 2: You didn't say oh man, you said oh shit.
9:07
Speaker 3: I did. Oh shit. I came out and you know,
9:11
Speaker 3: this is what people are gonna focus on instead of
9:12
Speaker 3: what I said. And it worked hard on that speech.
9:14
Speaker 3: I wanted people to hear what I said, and I thought,
9:16
Speaker 3: oh geez. But we embraced it. And you know what
9:19
Speaker 3: people did too. People started showing up. They make candles
9:22
Speaker 3: that say sharkly, motherfucker, They got t shirts, you know,
9:24
Speaker 3: and I thought, you're right, this is how people talk.
9:27
Speaker 3: It resonated with people and it turned out to be
9:29
Speaker 3: a really funny episode. And that's maybe the lesson, Right,
9:33
Speaker 3: you got to be the happy warrior.
9:34
Speaker 1: Why do politicians try to be so perfect or try
9:37
Speaker 1: to look so perfect? Right, the world is not perfect,
9:40
Speaker 1: nobody's ever perfect, but it you try to be perfect
9:44
Speaker 1: and then something comes out that shows that they're not.
9:45
Speaker 1: Well yourself. You talk about everything in the book, from
9:47
Speaker 1: your teeth to your debate to the drink, and so
9:50
Speaker 1: people know, like she's just like me, Like she does
9:52
Speaker 1: the things that I do. She's fed up just like me.
9:54
Speaker 1: Why why is it that thing.
9:56
Speaker 2: Of damn being perfect think that she's fed up just
10:02
Speaker 2: like we've.
10:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we're all real, right, and and some people
10:12
Speaker 3: don't feel comfortable being real. One of the things I'm
10:15
Speaker 3: cognizant of is, you know, the people that came before
10:18
Speaker 3: me may be easier for me to show up as
10:20
Speaker 3: I am, and I'm trying to make sure that I'm
10:22
Speaker 3: at least doing that for the people that come after me. Women,
10:26
Speaker 3: you know, candidates who aren't often in the majority, right,
10:29
Speaker 3: black candidates, brown candidates, lgbt Q candidates, right, making space
10:35
Speaker 3: for people to show up as they are because it's
10:38
Speaker 3: those I think who lose touch with their humanity and
10:40
Speaker 3: forget to see that and others that get the least
10:43
Speaker 3: done that actually improve the quality people's lives, And theoretically
10:47
Speaker 3: that's what anyone runs for office for in the first place.
10:49
Speaker 2: We have a chapter called take Nothing Personally, and that's
10:53
Speaker 2: also one of the four agreements by domguil Reeth. How
10:55
Speaker 2: hard is it to not take things personal? When you
10:57
Speaker 2: are a public political figure, people are always talking about you. Yeah,
11:03
Speaker 2: how hard is it to not take those things? For us?
11:05
Speaker 3: Well, it's challenging, and I love that you raised the
11:07
Speaker 3: poor agreements. I love that book. That's a book that
11:10
Speaker 3: you know, I've often, I've read frequently, and I actually
11:13
Speaker 3: just gave to all my two kids and my three
11:15
Speaker 3: step sons for Christmas this last year. I gave it
11:17
Speaker 3: to all of them. You know, it can be hard
11:20
Speaker 3: to do because you know, the media trolls are twenty
11:23
Speaker 3: four to seven NonStop. The people that will show up
11:26
Speaker 3: and yell at you are feeling more emboldened than ever
11:28
Speaker 3: to say whatever they want, whether it's grounded in fact
11:31
Speaker 3: or not. And it can be challenging. But I think
11:34
Speaker 3: that it's also a great lesson to know that when
11:38
Speaker 3: people are lashing out, it's really not about you. It's
11:41
Speaker 3: about them. When people say, you know, mean things about
11:44
Speaker 3: you know, the dress that you wear at your state
11:46
Speaker 3: of the state, or you know how you you know,
11:50
Speaker 3: how you wear your hair, or whatever it is, it's
11:53
Speaker 3: about them. It ain't about you and any energy you
11:56
Speaker 3: put into it. I think it takes away from energy
11:59
Speaker 3: you need to do real important stuff.
12:02
Speaker 2: You talked about your head. Why didn't your grandma want
12:04
Speaker 2: you to put your head on the.
12:05
Speaker 3: Middle beats the hell out of me, and I said,
12:07
Speaker 3: don't take that piece of advice, but work hard, wait
12:11
Speaker 3: wait to get married a little later in life. But
12:13
Speaker 3: I think those are are good pieces of advice.
12:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, she gave you a three pieces of advice.
12:17
Speaker 3: What was it?
12:18
Speaker 2: Don't don't put your head down in the middle, work hard,
12:22
Speaker 2: work hard, and don't get married until at least twenty.
12:24
Speaker 3: Eight Yeah, yes, yeah, I think those are good pieces
12:27
Speaker 3: of advice.
12:28
Speaker 2: You did, you did? Did you follow them all?
12:30
Speaker 3: I did? You know I'm a hard worker. I know
12:33
Speaker 3: that I'm raised in a state that you know, we're
12:35
Speaker 3: full of people that are work hard. Michigan Anders got grit.
12:39
Speaker 3: And I think that that's, you know, part of the title, right,
12:42
Speaker 3: true grit, it's true gretch. But it's a playoff that
12:44
Speaker 3: because I think grit is what really defines my philosophy
12:49
Speaker 3: and who the people in Michigan are. We work hard,
12:51
Speaker 3: we show up, we expect a fair shake, and I
12:54
Speaker 3: think that's what has centered a lot of the work
12:57
Speaker 3: that I do. And you know, like so many people,
12:59
Speaker 3: I was lucky to have two great, phenomenal grandmothers who
13:03
Speaker 3: really had a massive impact on my life. Nino, my
13:08
Speaker 3: dad's mom, esther that's my middle name, Gretchenester. She was
13:13
Speaker 3: you know, raised on a farm in rural Ohio. She
13:16
Speaker 3: was at the age in her late nineties was lobbying
13:20
Speaker 3: people in her church to vote for Barack Obama. She
13:23
Speaker 3: was ahead of her time and in so many ways,
13:27
Speaker 3: you know, strong feminist, and she taught me a lot.
13:31
Speaker 3: But trying to find the good in every situation, in
13:34
Speaker 3: every person was something that she imparted on us and
13:37
Speaker 3: parted on us.
13:38
Speaker 2: And she.
13:40
Speaker 3: Was the you know, one who said, even the meanest
13:44
Speaker 3: personal world might have pretty eyes, try to find the good.
13:48
Speaker 3: And that's something that you know I have found has
13:51
Speaker 3: has been a real important lesson for me to have
13:54
Speaker 3: in the back of my head through all the crazy
13:55
Speaker 3: stuff that I've had.
13:56
Speaker 1: In an try, I was to say the same thing,
13:57
Speaker 1: what's the good? And Donald Trump? You said, your grandmother said,
13:59
Speaker 1: find me good in everybody?
14:01
Speaker 3: Well, you know what, the one thing I can say
14:02
Speaker 3: about Donald Trump is he can read a public sentiment.
14:06
Speaker 3: He didn't know how to fix anything. He doesn't know
14:09
Speaker 3: how to do the job of president. He treats people
14:12
Speaker 3: with disrespect, and you know, he teaches people to hate.
14:15
Speaker 3: And you know, there are a lot of downsides, But
14:18
Speaker 3: he can read what's going on with people and he
14:20
Speaker 3: can feed into it and feed off of it, and
14:23
Speaker 3: I think that that's a talent. Does ease it for good?
14:27
Speaker 3: Hell no, but but that is something that he does well.
14:30
Speaker 1: What made you want to get into politics? What was
14:32
Speaker 1: the thing that says, this is what I want to do.
14:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really was the first time around was you know,
14:39
Speaker 3: I was practicing law. I had worked for the House
14:41
Speaker 3: Democrats in Michigan. We had a tie in our state
14:44
Speaker 3: House fifty five Democrats and fifty five Republicans when I
14:48
Speaker 3: worked there, which was the only time it's ever happened
14:50
Speaker 3: in Michigan, and they had to work together. And that's
14:52
Speaker 3: when I cut my teeth in politics. I really got
14:54
Speaker 3: to see maybe the best in what government can be.
14:59
Speaker 3: And we have limits in Michigan. And it was like
15:01
Speaker 3: so many women. It was someone else who called and said,
15:03
Speaker 3: you know, your state rep can't run again. You should
15:06
Speaker 3: take a look at it. I thought me, as you know,
15:09
Speaker 3: I've always been active, but me as a candidate never
15:12
Speaker 3: dawned on me. But I kind of looked at the
15:14
Speaker 3: field of people. I thought, man, I can do as
15:15
Speaker 3: good a job as any of these yahoo's. So I
15:18
Speaker 3: decided to throw my hat in the race, and I've
15:20
Speaker 3: won every election since. I've enjoyed public service immensely, but
15:25
Speaker 3: I didn't think when I was done in the legislature,
15:27
Speaker 3: I'd served six years in the House and then eight
15:29
Speaker 3: years in the state Senate. I was a Senate minority leader,
15:33
Speaker 3: and you know, the leader of twelve people in a
15:36
Speaker 3: body of thirty eight. We get our teeth kaped every
15:38
Speaker 3: damn day. And I thought, all right, I've done my
15:40
Speaker 3: public service. But the Flint water crisis became known, and
15:45
Speaker 3: just to refresh everyone's memory, you know, Flint is a
15:49
Speaker 3: predominantly black city. It was a thriving city for many
15:53
Speaker 3: decades when General Motors had a huge presence there. As
15:56
Speaker 3: the company took resources out of Flint, you know, poverty grew,
16:02
Speaker 3: and it was a city that didn't have a whole
16:04
Speaker 3: lot of support in state government. And at a time
16:08
Speaker 3: when budgets were tight, my predecessor appointed a emergency manager
16:13
Speaker 3: who went in and made catastrophic decisions not to treat
16:16
Speaker 3: the water, and the people in Flint got a lot
16:20
Speaker 3: of lead poisoning in their water that became public and
16:24
Speaker 3: that really was what drove me to want to run
16:26
Speaker 3: for governor. The people Flint deserved better. They need a
16:30
Speaker 3: governor who is going to make this right. And I
16:33
Speaker 3: looked at who was talking about running. I thought, you
16:35
Speaker 3: know what, I know how to do it. I'm gonna
16:37
Speaker 3: get in this race. Donald Trump had just carried Michigan
16:41
Speaker 3: eleven thousand vote difference between him and Hillary Clinton in sixteen,
16:45
Speaker 3: and I thought, I gotta get organized. I got to
16:47
Speaker 3: get all across the state. And I spent two years
16:49
Speaker 3: campaigning in all eighty three counties. I showed up in
16:52
Speaker 3: places Democrats right often, and I won. And so many
16:58
Speaker 3: lessons from what happened around the Flint water crisis has
17:01
Speaker 3: driven the work that I've done to try to make
17:02
Speaker 3: it right, to ensure other communities don't have a catastrophe
17:07
Speaker 3: like they had in Flint. And and we've made great strides.
17:11
Speaker 3: I'm proud of the work that we've done, but there's
17:13
Speaker 3: a lot more work to do.
17:14
Speaker 1: Is the water fixed and Flint is it?
17:15
Speaker 3: Yeah? So almost every pipe has been replaced. The ones
17:18
Speaker 3: that haven't, they had a hard time getting contact with
17:21
Speaker 3: homeowners that maybe don't live there anymore. So, yes, the
17:24
Speaker 3: water is clean. We've got We've expanded resources for nutrition
17:31
Speaker 3: for Flint kids because we know to address lead poisoning
17:35
Speaker 3: that that's a very crucial component. We just started what
17:39
Speaker 3: we call our ex Kids, which is monetary support for
17:42
Speaker 3: expectant mothers and babies. This is a you know, the
17:46
Speaker 3: direct dollars into the household. That it was driven by
17:50
Speaker 3: doctor Mona Hannah Atsha, who was the doctor that discovered
17:54
Speaker 3: the lint the Flint lead crisis. So we've done a
17:57
Speaker 3: lot of really creative things. We're continuing to invest in
18:00
Speaker 3: Flint and crazy to say, but in Michigan we got
18:03
Speaker 3: great public park system, great state park system. The only
18:07
Speaker 3: county in Michigan that didn't have a state park was
18:09
Speaker 3: Genesee County, which is where Flint is. We've created a
18:12
Speaker 3: state park there, made great investment in downtown Flint so
18:16
Speaker 3: that people can have the kind of amenities that they
18:20
Speaker 3: expect everywhere else in the state.
18:21
Speaker 2: Finally, you know, you've done some things in Michigan that
18:24
Speaker 2: I want to highlight because I think they're great. When
18:26
Speaker 2: you said some things like you once said, you declared
18:28
Speaker 2: racism as a public health crisis. He required all medical
18:31
Speaker 2: professionals to undergo unconscious bias training to improve healthcare and
18:35
Speaker 2: target disparities. What motivated you to make that kind of declaration.
18:39
Speaker 3: But you know, I think during the pandemic we saw
18:43
Speaker 3: laid bare the real true discrepancy and treatment and access
18:50
Speaker 3: and information that is shared with and support for the
18:53
Speaker 3: black community in particular. You know, my Lieutenant governor is
18:57
Speaker 3: Michigan's first Black Lieutenant governor. Doctor Jonae Keldoone, who was
19:01
Speaker 3: my chief medical executive during the Flint Water or during
19:04
Speaker 3: the pandemic, is an African American emergency room doctor. She
19:11
Speaker 3: was one of the first in the country to look
19:13
Speaker 3: at the data what was coming in in the early
19:15
Speaker 3: days of our COVID experience. You here in New York
19:18
Speaker 3: were it was hot here, it was hot in New Orleans,
19:21
Speaker 3: it was hot in Chicago, and it was hot in Detroit.
19:24
Speaker 3: We had an incredible number of people that were suffering
19:28
Speaker 3: from COVID, and it was disproportionately in the black community.
19:31
Speaker 3: You know, we have in the early days of COVID
19:35
Speaker 3: forty percent of the deaths in Michigan were African Americans.
19:39
Speaker 3: Fourteen percent of our population is African American, and so
19:42
Speaker 3: doctor j was the first one to see the early
19:44
Speaker 3: data she was practicing in our emergency rooms. She saw
19:47
Speaker 3: at firsthand and she said, this is disproportionately hit in
19:51
Speaker 3: my community. We got to have a targeted approach here,
19:53
Speaker 3: and so we created the Racial Disparities Task Force. We
19:57
Speaker 3: did specific outreach to the black community. We spent a
20:02
Speaker 3: lot of money and resources making sure that people had
20:04
Speaker 3: access and had solid information. We drove those death numbers
20:08
Speaker 3: way down because of it. I'm telling you, I don't
20:11
Speaker 3: know that we would have been nearly as successful. It
20:13
Speaker 3: wasn't the fact that we had an empowered black woman
20:16
Speaker 3: with the medical experience and the hands on experience in
20:21
Speaker 3: downtown Detroit to really drive that policy. And that's why
20:24
Speaker 3: I'm always telling people, you know, diversity matters. Empowered representation.
20:30
Speaker 3: That was key. It's not enough to have, you know,
20:33
Speaker 3: a proportion of voices around the table if you're not
20:35
Speaker 3: listening to them and if they don't feel empowered to
20:38
Speaker 3: really drive the plan. And you know, most scientists are
20:42
Speaker 3: not skilled communicators like Joan A. Kaldunez. I was real
20:45
Speaker 3: fortunate to have someone that had both those skills. She
20:48
Speaker 3: was by my side in every press conference and designing
20:51
Speaker 3: the policy in Michigan. And you know, declaring racism of
20:54
Speaker 3: public health crisis, making sure that our racial disparities work
20:59
Speaker 3: wasn't confined into a pandemic because it existed before the
21:02
Speaker 3: pandemic and obviously can exist to this day. But I
21:05
Speaker 3: think we're making strides on it, and she and the
21:07
Speaker 3: Lieutenant Governor have been key leaders in that effort in Michigan.
21:11
Speaker 2: Is the unconscious bias training is something that's going to
21:13
Speaker 2: transcend past healthcare because I feel like that should be
21:15
Speaker 2: in law enforcement, that should be in the banking system.
21:19
Speaker 2: I feel like that should be in schooling. I feel
21:22
Speaker 2: like that should be in so many different spaces.
21:23
Speaker 3: Absolutely, we require all state employees to go through it.
21:26
Speaker 3: So whether you're working with people in the healthcare space
21:30
Speaker 3: or in law enforcement or anywhere for that matter, it's
21:34
Speaker 3: important to recognize we all bring bias like we are
21:38
Speaker 3: lived where human beings with lived experiences that informed how
21:41
Speaker 3: we act. If we're cognizant of it, we can do better.
21:45
Speaker 3: But if we're not talking about it, not thinking about it,
21:47
Speaker 3: not examining it, we aren't going to change anything. And
21:50
Speaker 3: so that training, I think is really important. I went
21:53
Speaker 3: through the training just like everyone on my staff and
21:55
Speaker 3: throughout state government did, and I think more workplaces should
21:59
Speaker 3: require it because it's just an honest assessment of who
22:02
Speaker 3: we are and it's how we grow. And I like
22:04
Speaker 3: to think most people want to do better, but we
22:07
Speaker 3: can't expect them to do better if they don't know better.
22:08
Speaker 2: That's right, And it's another thing that you do to
22:10
Speaker 2: I like and Governor Shapiro has a version of it
22:12
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania. But it's the Clean Slate Bill and the
22:15
Speaker 2: Clean Slate for Kids that that you signed. What is
22:17
Speaker 2: that about.
22:19
Speaker 3: I'll tell you one of the things. One of the
22:21
Speaker 3: days that if you need no I'm good, I'm good.
22:25
Speaker 3: But one of the days that I think will live
22:29
Speaker 3: with me for the rest of my life was, you know,
22:31
Speaker 3: we changed the laws in Michigan so that people can
22:34
Speaker 3: get their records xpunch. We made sure that people that were,
22:38
Speaker 3: you know, sentenced and did time for marijuana offenses don't
22:43
Speaker 3: have that on their record anymore. It's not legal in Michigan,
22:45
Speaker 3: so you shouldn't have to carry that with you. And
22:48
Speaker 3: so we had a huge expungement fair in Flint. Actually
22:52
Speaker 3: we're talking a lot about Flint today, but this was
22:54
Speaker 3: in Flint, and the Lieutenant Governor and I were there.
22:58
Speaker 3: The Secretary of State was helping people get registered to vote.
23:01
Speaker 3: There's a common misconception that if you have a record,
23:04
Speaker 3: you can't vote. Well, you sure as can. And we
23:07
Speaker 3: register people when they're leaving prison now to make sure
23:09
Speaker 3: that they are voting. And the Attorney General was there
23:13
Speaker 3: so we can help people with paperwork to get all
23:14
Speaker 3: the records expunged. We had a thousand people show up
23:18
Speaker 3: before eight o'clock in the morning who were excited about
23:21
Speaker 3: this giving them an opportunity to get into a better
23:22
Speaker 3: job because of this old thing on the record was
23:25
Speaker 3: keeping them from getting gainfully employed or get housing. And
23:29
Speaker 3: so we've made we've made big strides. There's always more
23:32
Speaker 3: work to do, but our bail reform, you're not sitting
23:36
Speaker 3: in jail because you don't have someone in your pocket
23:38
Speaker 3: for a you know, a civil infraction. We've we've made
23:41
Speaker 3: a lot of great policy changes and we've helped a
23:44
Speaker 3: lot of people, you know, get another opportunity, which is
23:48
Speaker 3: everyone deserves that.
23:49
Speaker 2: Why are people going further on the marijuana thing? Like
23:51
Speaker 2: I saw I read that you were considering pardoning a
23:54
Speaker 2: lot of non violent marijuana offenders. We saw what Wes more.
23:56
Speaker 2: Just did you know in Maryland when it comes to
23:58
Speaker 2: misdemeana convictions, weed is legal in Michigan, So it seems
24:02
Speaker 2: like a no brain that had just pardoned all non
24:04
Speaker 2: violent marijuana offenders.
24:06
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, it's it's every state has a little different
24:10
Speaker 3: requirements to get it done. So, Wes, did you know
24:14
Speaker 3: a wonderful thing. I was really happy to see am
24:16
Speaker 3: use those powers. I don't have those kind of sweeping powers.
24:19
Speaker 3: So we've done it. We've gone through and done it.
24:21
Speaker 3: You know, so many cases we've been able to move through,
24:24
Speaker 3: but we can't do it end mass like that. Unfortunately,
24:27
Speaker 3: who the power? It just depends on the state. You know,
24:29
Speaker 3: different states have different executive authorities and powers.
24:34
Speaker 2: I saw you say that governors are a competitive bunch. Yeah,
24:37
Speaker 2: and you talked about Governor Newsom in the book. Like
24:40
Speaker 2: what did you mean by that? Because then and the
24:42
Speaker 2: reference the example you used with something in regard to
24:45
Speaker 2: social distance, and I don't want to tell the whole story,
24:47
Speaker 2: but yeah, like, what did you mean y'all a competitive book?
24:49
Speaker 3: Oh? No, you know, I think governors are the best
24:52
Speaker 3: salespeople for their states. I got to see Jay Insley
24:55
Speaker 3: talk about how great the state of Washington. Is when
24:58
Speaker 3: I was running for governor, I thought, oh, yeah, this
24:59
Speaker 3: is gonna be the job is. I'm going to be
25:01
Speaker 3: the promoter of all of Michigan for the world. Right,
25:04
Speaker 3: So we're we are a competitive bunch, you know. In
25:07
Speaker 3: the book, I talk a little bit about, you know,
25:08
Speaker 3: some ways that you know, we're all human, right, and
25:13
Speaker 3: when we make a mistake, we should own it. And
25:15
Speaker 3: I was praising Gavin Newsom for owning a mistake that
25:18
Speaker 3: he'd made. I'd made a very similar one, and so
25:21
Speaker 3: that was an example. You know. I think Newsom is
25:24
Speaker 3: a phenomenal leader. I think we're really lucky that we
25:27
Speaker 3: got so many great Democratic leaders across this country. Right now.
25:31
Speaker 3: We talked a little bit about Wes Moore. I know
25:33
Speaker 3: you had Josh Shapiro in here recently. He's fantastic, more
25:37
Speaker 3: a heally from Massachusetts. I mean, we got leaders all
25:41
Speaker 3: across the state. Tim Walls from Minnesota. He swears even
25:44
Speaker 3: more than we do, so you should have. But you know,
25:48
Speaker 3: it's a it's a really incredible bunch of people. And
25:52
Speaker 3: I've learned so much from my colleagues, and we've helped
25:54
Speaker 3: one another, and and I think you know, there's a
25:57
Speaker 3: real great crop of leaders right now.
25:59
Speaker 1: Now, let me ask a question. I know you had
26:00
Speaker 1: it to promote your book, but I wanted to ask
26:03
Speaker 1: you a question. A lot of people are not necessarily
26:06
Speaker 1: confident in Joe Biden right now. They don't know if
26:09
Speaker 1: they should go out and vote at all. Maybe they're
26:12
Speaker 1: looking people are thinking right now, maybe it's the lesser
26:14
Speaker 1: of two evils. What do you say to those individuals
26:16
Speaker 1: that are not a thousand percent confident and Biden. Maybe
26:19
Speaker 1: think Biden is too old, maybe think that he doesn't
26:21
Speaker 1: has early signs of dementia.
26:23
Speaker 2: What do you say to those people?
26:24
Speaker 3: Well, I'll start with us. You know, we all watch
26:26
Speaker 3: that debate and you know it was bad. I mean
26:30
Speaker 3: that's an understatement.
26:31
Speaker 1: It was.
26:31
Speaker 3: It was really bad, horrible, and it shook a lot
26:34
Speaker 3: of people. And people are asking questions. And you know what,
26:37
Speaker 3: I don't have a problem with that. You should ask questions.
26:40
Speaker 3: You should demand that your leaders are up to the job.
26:43
Speaker 3: I believe that Joe Biden is. And I tell you
26:45
Speaker 3: I went to the White House with a number of
26:47
Speaker 3: my colleagues, Gavin and Josh included and West as well,
26:51
Speaker 3: and we had to sit down with the president. There's
26:55
Speaker 3: no question in my mind that he's ready to take
26:57
Speaker 3: this on. I had a conversation with him all of
27:00
Speaker 3: our co chairs last weekend, same thing. He's a fighter,
27:05
Speaker 3: he's ready to go. He had a bad night, He'll
27:07
Speaker 3: be the first to admit it. It was terrible. Yet
27:09
Speaker 3: here we are. We've got a choice between an affirmative
27:12
Speaker 3: vote for Joe Biden or anything else is a vote
27:15
Speaker 3: for Donald Trump, and a second Trump presidency will be devastating.
27:19
Speaker 3: Second Trump presidency will take us further down the line
27:22
Speaker 3: of taking away individual rights of a worse and more
27:27
Speaker 3: intelerant nation with bigger discrepancies and income. I think that
27:33
Speaker 3: it's a dangerous prospect. Joe Biden wants to continue the
27:36
Speaker 3: work he's made record investments in on shoring, manufacturing, and
27:41
Speaker 3: the growth that we're seeing in our supply chains. We're stronger,
27:44
Speaker 3: We're getting stronger every day. That all can be undone.
27:47
Speaker 3: We got a president who's going to fight for every
27:50
Speaker 3: one of us black community, the brown community, women, and
27:53
Speaker 3: our rights. I think that he's got a record of
27:56
Speaker 3: doing that and he's going to continue to do it
27:58
Speaker 3: for the next four years. And that's why I'm on
28:00
Speaker 3: wavering in my support of Joe Biden Kamala Harris. I
28:03
Speaker 3: think that they are great leaders who are fortunate to
28:05
Speaker 3: have them. They've got the receipts and they got a
28:07
Speaker 3: plan for the next four years. The other guy represents
28:10
Speaker 3: a real, clear and present danger. You know.
28:13
Speaker 2: Chapter four is surround yourself with great people. Don't be
28:17
Speaker 2: afraid to ask for help. You know, when you think
28:18
Speaker 2: about the sarrogance, like yourself, the wes Moores, Governor, Shapiro's
28:23
Speaker 2: vice president. I rock with all of them. Right. Is
28:28
Speaker 2: President Biden the kind of leader that will ask y'all
28:31
Speaker 2: for help? Yes?
28:32
Speaker 3: And you know what I think. Another thing to remember
28:34
Speaker 3: is during the Trump years, remember his cabinet, it was
28:37
Speaker 3: a bunch of cronies and crooks. These are people that were,
28:40
Speaker 3: you know, I think, not experts in the fields in
28:43
Speaker 3: which they were hired. I can talk about the Department
28:45
Speaker 3: Education because Betsy Deboss is from Michigan. Biden, on the
28:50
Speaker 3: other hand, has got a diverse cabinet that is incredibly
28:53
Speaker 3: skilled that he leans on. You got Gina Rimondo and
28:57
Speaker 3: Pete boota judge, and Tom vill said, he's got Cedric Richmond,
29:01
Speaker 3: you know, very much a big part of of his operation,
29:05
Speaker 3: and obviously the vice president. He surrounds himself with quality
29:09
Speaker 3: people who are doing the work and showing up and
29:11
Speaker 3: actually care about the American people. And I think that's
29:13
Speaker 3: a real fundamental difference here. So yeah, he does listen,
29:18
Speaker 3: He asks questions. He says, you know, give me some advice.
29:20
Speaker 3: And you know, we've been pretty pretty frank, had some
29:23
Speaker 3: pretty frank conversations about giving some some input.
29:27
Speaker 2: You think he's the Secretary of p too, because he
29:28
Speaker 2: comes to the base, comes some time all the time.
29:30
Speaker 2: And I often feel like y'all should be offended. And
29:34
Speaker 2: the reason I say y'all should be offended because people
29:36
Speaker 2: will say, is this the best America has to offer?
29:39
Speaker 2: Is this the best the Democratic Party has to offer?
29:41
Speaker 2: In Biden? And it does kind of like, you know,
29:44
Speaker 2: make yourself and the the Wes Moorees and the Shapiros
29:48
Speaker 2: and the Buddhajas and the VP look like damn aren't
29:52
Speaker 2: they're they're all better to me than you know, the
29:55
Speaker 2: current leader of the of the party.
29:57
Speaker 3: Well, all these people you're gonna we're gonna to see
30:00
Speaker 3: do incredible things for the short term and the long term.
30:04
Speaker 3: So we're fortunate that one. You know, I understand that sentiment.
30:09
Speaker 3: And you know, I got kids, they're twenty two and
30:11
Speaker 3: twenty and they're you know, they're not as excited as I,
30:15
Speaker 3: you know, would love for them to be. And yet
30:17
Speaker 3: I know they're going to vote because they understand their
30:20
Speaker 3: rights to make their own decisions about their bodies, their
30:21
Speaker 3: ability to get housing after they graduate from college and
30:25
Speaker 3: try to get you know, an affordable place to live
30:27
Speaker 3: that is on their minds. Their ability to you know,
30:30
Speaker 3: live a long life in a climate that can sustain humanity. Right.
30:35
Speaker 3: Gun violence. This generation has grown up doing mass shooting drills.
30:42
Speaker 3: We can't even we can't even appreciate what kind of
30:45
Speaker 3: trauma that's inflicted on this generation. They are engaged in
30:48
Speaker 3: a way that we weren't, and so the fact that
30:51
Speaker 3: there may be don't Joe Biden doesn't resonate as well
30:55
Speaker 3: with every one of you know, every voter that's out there.
30:58
Speaker 3: I think that every voter can see a voice, a
31:01
Speaker 3: person that is a part of this effort that does though,
31:04
Speaker 3: and I think that that kind of Avenger style campaign
31:07
Speaker 3: and leadership has got to be a part of how
31:09
Speaker 3: we go forward.
31:10
Speaker 2: I've been saying that I don't want it. I would
31:12
Speaker 2: rather see his sarrogates out there.
31:14
Speaker 1: Do you want to see him debate again? Do you
31:15
Speaker 1: think he should debate again?
31:16
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, I it doesn't seem as
31:21
Speaker 3: though people go into debates with open minds these days.
31:25
Speaker 3: I do agree with you that, you know, having surrogates
31:29
Speaker 3: out there is powerful and incredibly helpful. And I know,
31:32
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of my colleagues and standard bears
31:36
Speaker 3: for the party are going to be descending into Michigan.
31:38
Speaker 3: And I'm excited about that because I want people to see,
31:41
Speaker 3: you know, I want people to get to know, you know,
31:43
Speaker 3: all of all of these leaders that are doing the
31:46
Speaker 3: work and that are part of the work that President
31:48
Speaker 3: Biden has gotten done. I want them to hear from
31:50
Speaker 3: them too.
31:50
Speaker 2: But why lie to American people? And what I mean
31:53
Speaker 2: by that is, like, you know, Joe Stephanopolis just got
31:56
Speaker 2: caught saying he doesn't feel like he can serve another
31:59
Speaker 2: for is President Biden. So even if that is people's
32:03
Speaker 2: you know, sentiment, why not say, hey, this is why
32:08
Speaker 2: you still vote for him? Like, why can't we have
32:11
Speaker 2: that conversation?
32:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I was not happy to see those comments, obviously,
32:18
Speaker 3: I disagree with George, and I have a great deal
32:21
Speaker 3: of respect for him, but I disagree with him, And
32:22
Speaker 3: you know, I challenge anyone who's out there opining about
32:26
Speaker 3: someone's health. Oh my lord, we've spent two weeks litigating
32:31
Speaker 3: the ninety minutes, the bad ninety minutes of Joe Biden,
32:35
Speaker 3: and not enough time litigating the four horrific years of
32:38
Speaker 3: Donald Trump. Let's be clear, this is a choice between
32:43
Speaker 3: two people. Yes, there are some third party candidates, but
32:45
Speaker 3: you vote for one of them that is helping Donald Trump.
32:48
Speaker 3: And so anything short of an affirmative vote for Biden
32:51
Speaker 3: is a vote for Trump. And I think whether it's
32:53
Speaker 3: because you're appalled at that possibility, or you're confident and
32:59
Speaker 3: have faith in in President Biden and Kamala Harris. And
33:02
Speaker 3: let's be clear, that's why we have a team. In
33:04
Speaker 3: case one person can't do the job, you got to
33:06
Speaker 3: back up. That's what the vice presidency is all about.
33:08
Speaker 3: And she's incredibly capable. This is not the time to
33:12
Speaker 3: keep bringing our hands. We got to roll up our
33:13
Speaker 3: sleeves because we got a lot of work to do.
33:15
Speaker 1: You think people should challenge him at the convention coming up?
33:17
Speaker 2: Yes, I don't.
33:20
Speaker 3: I don't. You know, I respect that there are different opinions,
33:24
Speaker 3: but I don't. I think right now we know what
33:27
Speaker 3: the matchup is.
33:29
Speaker 2: We keep asking for it. What last year he said
33:32
Speaker 2: there's about fifty other Democrats who could beat Trump. Last
33:35
Speaker 2: week he goes, you know, hey, conn Yeah, he's asking
33:39
Speaker 2: for it.
33:39
Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad to see him show a little swagger, frankly,
33:43
Speaker 3: but by the same token. You know, this isn't fantasy football.
33:47
Speaker 3: We are beyond the primaries and we are beyond the caucuses.
33:51
Speaker 3: The matchup is set, and the only person that changes
33:54
Speaker 3: that matchup is Joe Biden. He's made his decision, he's
33:56
Speaker 3: communicated it.
33:57
Speaker 2: So let's go you know, just about mission. Because it's
34:00
Speaker 2: a huge battleground state. Over one hundred thousand primary voters
34:03
Speaker 2: cast uncommitted votes back in February because of the Bidens
34:06
Speaker 2: administration's funding of the Israel military and the war on Palestine.
34:10
Speaker 2: Does that concern you about how Michigan will turn out
34:12
Speaker 2: in November?
34:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course it does. You know, the great story
34:16
Speaker 3: of Michigan is that we are the place people came
34:19
Speaker 3: to from around the world for opportunity, and because of that,
34:23
Speaker 3: we got a richly diverse population, right People came from
34:26
Speaker 3: the South for a job on the line. People came
34:28
Speaker 3: from Lebanon for a job on the line. People came
34:33
Speaker 3: from Holland for a job in you know, the muckfields
34:36
Speaker 3: on the west side of the state, or from Finland
34:38
Speaker 3: for a job in mining in the Upper Peninsula. I mean,
34:40
Speaker 3: we're a very diverse state and it's a great strength.
34:44
Speaker 3: It also is made up of communities. All of these
34:47
Speaker 3: communities that I've been able to count on as a
34:50
Speaker 3: part of the coalition that's always supported my candidacy for office,
34:54
Speaker 3: and I'm grateful for that. Everyone's hurting right now. That's
34:57
Speaker 3: the only universal truth. You know. Our Jewish community is
35:02
Speaker 3: in pain. We've seen the rise of anti Semitism, the
35:05
Speaker 3: horrors of October seventh, the hostages that still haven't been released,
35:10
Speaker 3: my Arab American and Muslim community, and Palestinian community, and
35:14
Speaker 3: it's important to single them all out because it's not monolithic.
35:18
Speaker 3: They are different communities within within one larger community. They're
35:24
Speaker 3: hurting because they see the loss of innocent lives every
35:26
Speaker 3: single day playing out. There's so many people in Michigan
35:30
Speaker 3: that are one degree or two degrees of separation from
35:34
Speaker 3: someone who's lost their life in this altercation or someone
35:38
Speaker 3: who's starving right now. And so I think part of
35:42
Speaker 3: the one of the lessons in my book is about
35:45
Speaker 3: the power of listening. We got to show up and listen.
35:49
Speaker 3: We've got to show people that we care. Staying close
35:53
Speaker 3: to my Arab American community, staying close with my Jewish community,
35:58
Speaker 3: it is really important. And recognizing the pain that everyone's
36:02
Speaker 3: feeling is as well. But I also want to be
36:04
Speaker 3: clear that Donald Trump presidency eight sure is hell ain't
36:08
Speaker 3: going to fix what's going on in the Middle East.
36:10
Speaker 3: I mean it could measurably make it worse. You hear
36:12
Speaker 3: some of the crazy things that he has said, some
36:15
Speaker 3: of what his supporters have said. You think we want
36:19
Speaker 3: a two state solution where we everyone can have a
36:21
Speaker 3: safe homeland. That's not something that he's promoting. And I
36:26
Speaker 3: think it will make it measurably worse. And that's why,
36:29
Speaker 3: you know, I understand the pain and that people are
36:32
Speaker 3: feeling checked out and unheard. That's why the listening part
36:36
Speaker 3: is so important. That's why I say listening is a
36:38
Speaker 3: superpower in my book, and I think that's something that
36:41
Speaker 3: Biden does better than Trump does. He's an empathetic guy
36:44
Speaker 3: who actually cares about people.
36:45
Speaker 2: What would your message be to the Muslim Arab community
36:47
Speaker 2: in Michigan in regard to the supporting President Biden come November.
36:51
Speaker 2: Because you know, fifty thousand, you know, innocent people killed.
36:55
Speaker 2: It is tough to see.
36:56
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, no, it's it's horrific.
36:58
Speaker 2: Women and children.
36:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, man too. You know, I know everyone posts the
37:02
Speaker 3: women and children, but there are a lot of isn't
37:04
Speaker 3: men's who've lost their lives too. I mean, it is horrific.
37:08
Speaker 3: And yet if we want to have a leader of
37:12
Speaker 3: the free world who sees that, who cares about leading
37:17
Speaker 3: for a two state solution, who's never going to campaign
37:20
Speaker 3: on like a Muslim band or child separation at the
37:23
Speaker 3: border for Brown families coming into this country. I mean
37:27
Speaker 3: that's Joe Biden. There's no question who the better leader
37:29
Speaker 3: is on all of these issues, and it's Joe Biden.
37:33
Speaker 2: You know, chapter nine, you talk about owning your screw
37:35
Speaker 2: ups and forgiving others for theirs, And I read where
37:38
Speaker 2: you wanted to actually meet with someone from the far
37:41
Speaker 2: right militia that applotted the kidnap and assassinate you. Yeah,
37:46
Speaker 2: I don't know if my forgiveness works, then wouldn't want
37:50
Speaker 2: to have that conversation was, well.
37:52
Speaker 3: You know you hope to gain When I wrote that,
37:54
Speaker 3: I didn't know it would get such strong reaction, but
37:57
Speaker 3: it has, so you're in the majority.
37:59
Speaker 1: I could and you know you can kill you.
38:01
Speaker 2: What do you hope to gain from?
38:03
Speaker 3: There were twelve to fourteen guys who were out there
38:05
Speaker 3: planning for months to kidnap and then hold a sham
38:09
Speaker 3: trial and execute me. That was their plan, and they
38:13
Speaker 3: had a kill house. They went through all these exercises
38:16
Speaker 3: to practice that. Text messages are horrific. Fortunately, law enforcement,
38:22
Speaker 3: you know, had infiltrated, they had an informer, and they
38:25
Speaker 3: were able to keep it from happening, and I'm grateful
38:28
Speaker 3: for that.
38:28
Speaker 1: Did they tell you early on that this was happening?
38:30
Speaker 3: Did you know through the whole process or not through
38:32
Speaker 3: the whole process? But I knew a few months before
38:35
Speaker 3: it became public. The head of my security details sat
38:38
Speaker 3: down with me. I talked a little bit about it
38:40
Speaker 3: in the book and shared it with me, and someone was,
38:43
Speaker 3: you know, give me a hard time because they said, oh,
38:45
Speaker 3: you know the way you told your kids. He said, oh,
38:47
Speaker 3: by the way, there's a plot to kidnap and kill me.
38:49
Speaker 3: But it's okay, We're going to be fine, you know,
38:50
Speaker 3: Like I said, it like that and very I don't know,
38:53
Speaker 3: practical or strange, but whatever, you know, I want to
38:58
Speaker 3: understand what happened. It is not a rational thing that
39:02
Speaker 3: you pick up guns and want to assassinate a sitting
39:04
Speaker 3: governor because she told you wear a mask. That's not rational.
39:08
Speaker 3: That did not happen all over the country. It happened
39:09
Speaker 3: in this unique circumstances. Why I would like to understand.
39:13
Speaker 3: So I'd love to, you know, have the chance to
39:15
Speaker 3: sit down maybe with one of the people that cooperated
39:17
Speaker 3: with the government and testified against their fellow plotters.
39:22
Speaker 2: That's fine.
39:24
Speaker 3: Well, I'm grateful that there were a couple of snitches,
39:27
Speaker 3: you know, like to just sit down and ask, you know,
39:30
Speaker 3: what was going on here and show I'm a human being.
39:33
Speaker 3: You know, I'm a normal person. I'm doing. I'm an
39:36
Speaker 3: ordinary person, an extraordinary job serving in a crazy time.
39:41
Speaker 3: But I'd like to understand and if I can learn
39:43
Speaker 3: something that will make me a better human or a
39:45
Speaker 3: better governor than it's worth doing.
39:47
Speaker 2: Have you forgiven them yet?
39:48
Speaker 3: Yeah?
39:49
Speaker 2: Really? Yeah?
39:51
Speaker 1: Wow?
39:53
Speaker 2: How does the forgiveness thing work in regard to like
39:56
Speaker 2: politicians like can you can you forgive Trump for leading
40:00
Speaker 2: an attempted cooled his country? Can you give the Supreme
40:02
Speaker 2: Court for a boxing Roe v. Wade? Like that is
40:05
Speaker 2: the forgiveness work that way too? Well?
40:07
Speaker 3: I think if if you own it, yeah, I think
40:10
Speaker 3: if you say you know, you have, you have learned,
40:13
Speaker 3: or you regret, then yeah, I think it is you
40:15
Speaker 3: can forgive if.
40:17
Speaker 2: You're fighting actively against it.
40:18
Speaker 3: Though, well he hasn't owned it, and he hasn't you know,
40:22
Speaker 3: they're trying to spin it as though it was a
40:25
Speaker 3: harmless group of tourists. They're trying to spend as you know,
40:28
Speaker 3: the people that were tearing down our capital and we're,
40:33
Speaker 3: you know, are the reason that people officers have lost
40:36
Speaker 3: their lives. Were patriots doing this. That's what they're trying
40:39
Speaker 3: to tell us, Like, don't believe you're lying eyes you know,
40:42
Speaker 3: we this was a peaceful group Bologney, And so I
40:45
Speaker 3: don't forgive that. I'm mad about that still because that
40:49
Speaker 3: was a horrific thing to see. I sat there with
40:52
Speaker 3: my daughters watching this play out in the United States
40:54
Speaker 3: Capitol and everyone was so shocked. And I thought, if
40:57
Speaker 3: you're shocked, you weren't paying attention to what was going on.
40:59
Speaker 3: In Michigan. We saw the early signs of this with
41:02
Speaker 3: people showing up with guns, standing over our legislature and
41:06
Speaker 3: sitting outside my house with AR fifteen. It's threatening to
41:09
Speaker 3: kill me. I mean, this is a part of the
41:12
Speaker 3: rhetoric that Donald Trump has made so common and the
41:16
Speaker 3: reaction that is predictable because of what he's done. And
41:19
Speaker 3: he's showed no remorse for that, not even an understanding
41:22
Speaker 3: of how serious that was. And that's why I think
41:24
Speaker 3: you see so many people who used to call themselves
41:27
Speaker 3: Republicans are looking at him, going I can't do it.
41:30
Speaker 3: But there still are a lot of people are going
41:32
Speaker 3: to support him. And I don't forgive him for that.
41:34
Speaker 1: Do you think it's because you're a woman, Because there
41:36
Speaker 1: are a lot of governance that said you have to
41:37
Speaker 1: wear masks. There's a lot of people that came out
41:39
Speaker 1: and said that you have to wear masks, But none
41:41
Speaker 1: of them I can recall, had plots on their life
41:43
Speaker 1: for kidnapping and killing.
41:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you know I was. I convened a group
41:49
Speaker 3: of governors during COVID to kind of share what we
41:52
Speaker 3: were seeing help one another when we could. It was
41:55
Speaker 3: the Midwest governors. Tim Wallas from Minnesota, Tony Evers from Wisconsin,
42:00
Speaker 3: Baby Pritzker from Illinois, Eric Holcombe from Indiana Republican, Mike
42:04
Speaker 3: DeWine from Ohio also Republican, and Andy Basher from Kentucky.
42:08
Speaker 3: Good friend and another great talent. All of them are.
42:11
Speaker 3: I think all the Democratic governors are fantastic. And we
42:16
Speaker 3: were chatting about, you know, everything that was playing out,
42:18
Speaker 3: and one of my colleagues said, you know, Gretchen, you're
42:21
Speaker 3: doing all the same things that we're doing, but why
42:24
Speaker 3: are you taking so much more heat for it? And
42:27
Speaker 3: when the last word landed he went, he said, oh wait,
42:29
Speaker 3: don't answer that. I know it's because you are the
42:32
Speaker 3: woman doing it, and so I'm not the one who
42:35
Speaker 3: raises Okay, I'm dealing with this because I'm a woman,
42:37
Speaker 3: but I appreciate when someone else points it out because
42:39
Speaker 3: I do think that that's a part of it. I
42:41
Speaker 3: don't want that woman telling me what to do. And
42:45
Speaker 3: you know, we didn't have a black governor during the pandemic.
42:49
Speaker 3: I don't know the extra kind of heat that a
42:52
Speaker 3: black governor would have confronted, but I know that the
42:55
Speaker 3: women governors did deal with a whole higher intensity of
42:59
Speaker 3: hate that came.
43:00
Speaker 2: Oh I agree with you because you know, you know,
43:02
Speaker 2: even when your name comes up as you know, being
43:05
Speaker 2: a presidential candidate. You know, I always say, man, I
43:08
Speaker 2: think that this country in a lot of ways is
43:09
Speaker 2: more sexist and racist. I don't know if they would
43:13
Speaker 2: vote as qualified as you are.
43:16
Speaker 1: Right, Huh we seen Hillary.
43:18
Speaker 2: That's my point, Like, I don't know if they would.
43:19
Speaker 2: It's the same reason that they're so afraid of Vice
43:21
Speaker 2: President Harris. Like when people when you hear people say, oh,
43:23
Speaker 2: you should be scared of a you know, president Harris.
43:27
Speaker 2: You know, uh, you should be scared of a president
43:29
Speaker 2: Harris run. And I'm like, why what would our policies
43:32
Speaker 2: wouldn't be any different than any other Democrats, So what
43:34
Speaker 2: would be make them afraid other than her being a
43:37
Speaker 2: woman and a woman of color.
43:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that that. I think you're making an
43:40
Speaker 3: important point. You know. I was kind of marveling watching
43:43
Speaker 3: the news this morning. Nikki Haley was taking a shot
43:47
Speaker 3: at Kamala Harris, and you know, it just really struck
43:50
Speaker 3: me that these are two women of Indian descent, you know,
43:53
Speaker 3: and she's saying things like Kamala Harris would be dangerous,
43:58
Speaker 3: you know, and it's just it's it's galling to me
44:01
Speaker 3: to watch that play out. I was hopeful, you know,
44:03
Speaker 3: I thought she was somewhat of a voice of reason
44:06
Speaker 3: in that primary, and yet you know, she's just thrown
44:09
Speaker 3: her a lot in and with the team that she
44:12
Speaker 3: was so critical of over the last year and a
44:14
Speaker 3: half and attacking Kamala Harrison. I just I don't know.
44:18
Speaker 3: It's just maybe that's why we haven't had a woman
44:21
Speaker 3: president yet, because because you see.
44:23
Speaker 1: Stuff like that playout, do you think you could be
44:24
Speaker 1: the first?
44:25
Speaker 3: I don't have any plans to run for anything after
44:29
Speaker 3: this term as governor. It's it's certainly a compliment to
44:33
Speaker 3: be included in the list of people whose names come
44:35
Speaker 3: up all the time. But you know, I got a
44:37
Speaker 3: big job right now. I got two and a half
44:39
Speaker 3: more years to be governor of Michigan. I got a
44:40
Speaker 3: lot more that I want to get accomplished, and I'm
44:42
Speaker 3: not thinking of anything beyond that.
44:44
Speaker 1: You could write shock, shock, blood, motherfuck shop, motherfucker on
44:47
Speaker 1: the paper and then you know you can go for it.
44:49
Speaker 3: Did you hear g Matcash a song about you, Big
44:51
Speaker 3: rich oh Man, I love Gmtcash. He sent me an
44:55
Speaker 3: email yesterday he said, good luck on gm A. I'm
44:58
Speaker 3: rooting for you, bestie. So yeah, that is we're not
45:01
Speaker 3: best friends, but I like to think that we're very good.
45:03
Speaker 2: Friends when you hear the record and who put you
45:05
Speaker 2: onto it?
45:06
Speaker 3: Okay, So first, it started with the nickname Big Gretch,
45:09
Speaker 3: Big Gretch. So you know, first of all, I'm named
45:13
Speaker 3: after my two grandmas, Gretchen and Esther. They're both in
45:16
Speaker 3: the book. But Grandma Gretchen always said, don't ever let
45:19
Speaker 3: anyone call you gretch. Your name is Gretchen. So I've
45:22
Speaker 3: always had an aversion to being called gretch. I don't
45:26
Speaker 3: know many women that want big in the front of
45:28
Speaker 3: their nickname. Am I right?
45:29
Speaker 2: Big? What depends? You know? If you heavy said, we
45:32
Speaker 2: say you got a big bag, but big can mean
45:35
Speaker 2: like position as well.
45:36
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well it's it's all good now. But you know,
45:39
Speaker 3: when I first heard the name big Gretch, I'm like,
45:41
Speaker 3: oh Lord, what what is happening here? And Shaquille Meyer,
45:45
Speaker 3: someone on my on my team at the time from Detroit,
45:48
Speaker 3: was like, oh no, you don't understand the people of
45:50
Speaker 3: Detroit have accepted you. Big Gretch is a compliment. It
45:53
Speaker 3: is given with love. And I was like, all right,
45:55
Speaker 3: tell me more. And then in Detroit, a symbol of
45:59
Speaker 3: success is buffs. So the Buffalo, Cardier.
46:02
Speaker 1: Sunglasses, buff glasses.
46:03
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, so you got to have the buffs. So
46:05
Speaker 3: but when I don't own buffs, I mean I don't
46:08
Speaker 3: have that kind of money, and I don't trust myself
46:10
Speaker 3: with expensive sunglasses. But they they present you with buffs
46:15
Speaker 3: like it's they don't literally present you with buffs, but
46:17
Speaker 3: it's you know, a saying. And so it was like, okay,
46:20
Speaker 3: I'm presented with buffs? What the hell are buff shequilla?
46:22
Speaker 3: So she's educating me. But then Gmac made it into
46:25
Speaker 3: a into the rap song and I just love it.
46:27
Speaker 3: I think Big Grutch has become this this nickname I
46:31
Speaker 3: never knew that I needed. It was given to me.
46:33
Speaker 3: Trump was kicking my butt, he was making my life miserable.
46:37
Speaker 3: I was getting all sorts of threats and ugliness. And
46:40
Speaker 3: this happened at a time where I really, you know,
46:42
Speaker 3: appreciated the boost. And everywhere I go, especially in Detroit,
46:46
Speaker 3: I'm Big Gretch.
46:47
Speaker 2: So Big Gretch Gravity Gretsch. Which one do you like?
46:49
Speaker 3: Big Gretch is my favorite.
46:50
Speaker 1: Yes, Big grts has to go.
46:52
Speaker 2: Okay, I got one more question, well too, you could
46:54
Speaker 2: actually get the buff glasses now because the Supreme Court
46:56
Speaker 2: made it to where you can get bribes. You can
46:59
Speaker 2: have the money for me. But why aren't people saying
47:03
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court is no longer a legitimate institution. Why
47:06
Speaker 2: aren't folks calling them out for their corruption?
47:09
Speaker 3: I am, you know, and I was glad to see
47:11
Speaker 3: Sheldon Whitehouse and a letter to Merrick Garland. I don't
47:13
Speaker 3: know if he's going to do anything about it, but
47:15
Speaker 3: I hope he does because it is so depressing and
47:19
Speaker 3: sad to me. You know, I'm a lawyer. I was
47:22
Speaker 3: raised by you know, two public servants who also were lawyers, though,
47:26
Speaker 3: and who revered the judicial system, that it was the
47:30
Speaker 3: check on government, that it was above the politics of
47:33
Speaker 3: the day. We saw that over the years, where decisions
47:37
Speaker 3: came out even if you didn't agree with him, you
47:39
Speaker 3: respected him because they were grounded in some you know,
47:42
Speaker 3: interpretation of the constitution, not a political agenda. And yet
47:46
Speaker 3: what we've seen now Trump remade the Supreme Court three
47:51
Speaker 3: appointees who lied to Congress about roeb Wade and went
47:54
Speaker 3: on and just eviscerated women's reproductive freedom. That is on
47:58
Speaker 3: this ballot a majority now who has said that a
48:01
Speaker 3: president has you know, this vast immunity now that the
48:04
Speaker 3: law didn't apply to the person who is who we
48:07
Speaker 3: elect as our president. It is scary, and they are is.
48:11
Speaker 3: It is terribly frustrating to have all the presumptions I
48:16
Speaker 3: was raised to believe that you could count on that
48:18
Speaker 3: court thrown into the garbage in a dumpster. And it's
48:22
Speaker 3: it's a real problem, and I'm glad to see. You know,
48:24
Speaker 3: some folks in Congress are taking it seriously, but man,
48:26
Speaker 3: we need a better mechanism to hold them accountable.
48:28
Speaker 2: You still think it's a legitimate institution, the Supreme Court.
48:31
Speaker 3: I think that they have bastardized it. I hate to
48:35
Speaker 3: say it.
48:35
Speaker 2: You shouldn't, It's the truth.
48:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hate the fact of it. You know, we
48:40
Speaker 3: deserve better, and those justices took an oath then. Man,
48:45
Speaker 3: it's just horrible to see that not even they're holding
48:47
Speaker 3: it up.
48:47
Speaker 2: So Biden needs to expand the courts.
48:49
Speaker 3: Right Well, I'm not going to tell the President what
48:52
Speaker 3: to do, but we do need a system that is
48:55
Speaker 3: actually accountable to the people, and it has to abide
48:58
Speaker 3: by a certain ethic standard and is brained in by
49:02
Speaker 3: you know, the law.
49:03
Speaker 2: If you were president, would you explained Supreme Court?
49:06
Speaker 3: I haven't. It's a good question. I don't know that
49:09
Speaker 3: I've got a thoughtful answer for you. Yet the answers
49:13
Speaker 3: should be the answers aren't running for president. So there.
49:17
Speaker 2: All right.
49:18
Speaker 1: Last question, when you see people from Michigan at Detroit,
49:21
Speaker 1: do you agree them with?
49:21
Speaker 2: What upde?
49:22
Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, That's that's how we agreet one another. What
49:25
Speaker 3: updo you know? I gotta tell you Detroit hosted the
49:30
Speaker 3: NFL Draft yep, and man, it was the most fun event.
49:34
Speaker 3: Detroit's population has grown for the first time in seventy years.
49:37
Speaker 3: We had a record draft turnout, and then we had
49:40
Speaker 3: the Grand Prix the next week, and then the opening
49:42
Speaker 3: of Detroit Michigan Central Station, the old train station that
49:46
Speaker 3: Bill Ford, you know, decided to plow a bunch of
49:48
Speaker 3: resources into and now it's like this hub of R
49:51
Speaker 3: and D and it's exciting time. We had, you know,
49:55
Speaker 3: eminem produced a big party at the opening. I mean,
49:59
Speaker 3: there's so much good stuff happening in Detroit and all
50:01
Speaker 3: across Michigan. And so yeah, what up dough to the
50:04
Speaker 3: listeners from Detroit forty two.
50:06
Speaker 2: Doug is here, so you'll be able to say that
50:07
Speaker 2: to him. You'll surly seeming in the whole. All right. Well,
50:10
Speaker 2: it's the Governor Gretchen movie. Thank you so much, Governor
50:14
Speaker 2: of Michigan. Pleasure make sure you go get her a
50:16
Speaker 2: new book, true Gretch, what I've learned about life, leadership
50:18
Speaker 2: and everything in between it. And don't be a stranger. Please.
50:21
Speaker 2: We were on a lot of stations in U Misschchigan.
50:23
Speaker 3: I know I'll come back, please do all right, thank you.
50:26
Speaker 1: It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake that ass.
50:28
Speaker 2: Up in the morning. The Breakfast Club