Latest / ninetyfive / In Conversation with Joel Baker | Songwriting, singing lessons and straddling genres

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In Conversation with Joel Baker | Songwriting, singing lessons and straddling genres · ninetyfive

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now imagine a hybrid of Jay Diller and Bob Diller.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: The man we're about to speak to embodies that.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's Joel Baker.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Just from a couple of conversations, you're a very positive person, aren't they?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're very you see, see you seem to see the good in everything.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I think so.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining us, Joel Baker.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Privilege to have you with us today.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure, man.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute pleasure.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are at Grind Studios, partnering with Etch for a week-long residency.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Could be making some music, playing it to some people.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: But we wanted to start off by saying, giving you the opportunity for anyone who might not have heard of you up until this point, who is Joel Baker?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, who is Joel Baker?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm sure you haven't heard of me to be fair.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I've been kicking around for a while.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: I love being in this area actually in Shoreditch because this was so nostalgic for me.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is where I was like all the time when I first moved to London, like 2011.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've seen Shoreditch change so much.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I mean who who is Joel Baker?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um I arrived here working in Parliament uh as a speech writer, and my life was very much going that way.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: But then um all the friends that I met uh were all artists, producers, writers, and I was like, I actually want to do that.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's what I really, really want to do.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: And being in London was the first time that I felt like that was possible.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of went down that path 100 miles per hour.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a roller coaster of a journey, um, had some ups, had some downs and everything in between.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, I'm an artist, I make music that's somewhere between Dylan and Dilla, so it's kind of got that folk rooty element to it, but also like yeah, I was born in 1990, so my love for like American-inspired hip-hop, Chicago hip-hop, and all of that is just in me, you know.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um we were swapping Wu-Tang CDs in the playground like growing up, and that's very much a part of who I am.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: But my dad loved Bob Dylan as well, so that's also in me.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just yeah, that's that's who I am.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um love that.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So Dylan and uh Dilla, the good J D.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So how how does that intersect in your music?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: What do you say?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the the lyricism is from the Dylan side and the production is Diller, or is it um more is it is there something else to it?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's very much that to be fair.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's very much that.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's it's me trying to combine all of my favourite elements of the things that I listen to and love and putting them into songs.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes the elements appear more in different songs or different productions, but that's I would say how the template starts every time.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, right, I'm gonna start with kind of like a jaggedy boom bap kind of thing, and then I'm gonna lay out with some guitar and some chords and kind of see what happens.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it comes out a little bit more songy or folky or country.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: I just went to Nashville last year and wrote a lot more kind of country style stuff, but then put the kind of boom bap under it, which was really interesting.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and sometimes it's just it's a bit more UK-inspired, synthy dark.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd say there were releases this year quite that with uh with your work with Nick Brewer.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got you've got five releases under that under Boy Baker Volume 2.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is there any more to come?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or are we doing some of that today?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: What would they do?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, we're that's kind of gonna be an ongoing project for forever, really.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, me and Nick have been friends for forever.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, like maybe two or three years ago, Nick was at a point where he's like, I'm not sure if I want to do music anymore.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, No way, yeah.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to do music.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, look, let's just like start up a little project just for fun, see what happens, see where it goes.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so that was great fun.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: That was the only purpose of that project.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: It feels fun, it feels fun, yeah.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely does, definitely does.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I love the tune with the kind of the Monster Boy rendition of the garage and stuff.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very cool, very like throwback, puts you instantly in that time, which is very cool.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, so at grind today, what what were we working on?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: What are we doing today?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, today is all about finishing my album.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got an album coming called Songs in a Second Language, and I've just been on the fence about it for a while.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: I've got like these 18 tracks that have been on my hard drive, been on my like untitled stream thing for ages.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I just listen to them all the time, so I'm just tweaking them constantly.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, maybe it should be this, maybe it should be that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just kind of bored of that now.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, let me invite a bunch of people down here to listen to them with me.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna set up a little live stream as well, and just listen along with a bunch of people, and let's just like see what the energy is.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I I am a I am a believer in yeah, like your gut will tell you what to do once you kind of show it in front of other people.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um like I've done a lot of like work at the moment around like kind of feedback loops, um, and your own mind isn't necessarily the best feedback loop sometimes.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um actually the energy from other people can be a better judge of what to do.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I'm hoping for today.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: A bit of fun, open up the all the files, play the songs and see what needs kind of finishing.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean I guess that's what music's all about, it's being played and for people to enjoy an experience.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, very cool.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's a sick plan.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're bringing people into that creative process as well.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because as you say, like you can so easily get stuck on your own head when it comes to your own creation, and no matter what the output of it is.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So as we said, hi here with Etched.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one of the main things about Etched is talking really about how we secure value and allow us to then be a bit more liberal with the stuff that we share, yeah, and all of that sort of stuff.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so we wanted to talk about the fact that you you have a Patreon called the Bakery, which has different tiers on it, different ways that people can access, uh, whether it be buying you a coffee or like a whole load of different stuff.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's such a cool way for you to be able to like give value, but also sort of extract value back.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so we wanted to talk about how you how do you navigate the overall balance of sort of like value on your work, especially um from the sort of songwriting point of view as well, because we all know that that's definitely something that people are advocating for more and more, is like to for songwriters to be paid like appropriately.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I just wanted to ask you about that whole premise of value, really.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's it's a big question in the industry at the moment.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: I've just like, yeah.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: The value of human work and human art and all of that.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're I think we're still finding what that balance should be, in a way.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think ever since streaming, we've been trying to find what does that look like.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um it does feel like music is kind of going in a way now, almost a little bit like art, in a way, of where there are the kind of different tiers of art and what are you willing to kind of pay for.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: And um if I want to come and see your artwork, I might pay for a ticket to a gallery and come and see it in that way.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Or um But I mean the the the interesting thing about music is it's always been about like buying into somebody's journey and personal brand as well.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um which streaming at the moment doesn't necessarily allow for.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: I love streaming, by the way.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's uh amazing and I've profited off it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, I was at Spotify yesterday, and and so many of my favourite artists I've discovered from Spotify as well.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I think it's amazing, but there does need to be like an add-on for like artists to actually be able to sustain themselves.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I I just noticed a lot in my journey there was a lot of people from around the world that just kind of wanted to buy into what I was doing and wanted to support me, but they're just like we don't know how.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can just press repeat on your song.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's only so many times I'm gonna listen to it.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and at the same time, I like I really know that feeling.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, Patreon, I'm subscribed to a bunch of other creators as well, just like some of my favourite artists.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, thank you for doing this.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like literally, like I would pay anything to see into your process, get unreleased demos and whatnot.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is a mate, you're providing so much value for me.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I think it's those platforms, those fan-to-fan platforms, I think are only gonna expand.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um sick.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sick.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you've um you previously well it's a quote from someone else, actually, but you previously said that um your favourite definition of s of success is the ability to continue to create.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which I think is something very, very cool.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I yeah, you know, as we've just said, like finding other people's expression and you being able to express is um super important.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: But then obviously we've been speaking a bit about like family life and stuff.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: How do you balance that with the necessity to continue to pay bills?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hard.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's really tricky.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's really tricky, and I think particularly you know, the way that society is set up as well, is of what we value and what we see as success and value is often interwoven with money.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um particularly for men as well.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, male artists that are so desperate to make it.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: When you really unpick it, it's not even necessarily because they want to make money, it's because they want other people to look at them like they're worth something as a man.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that is it's hard, it's a lot of responsibility to put onto the art form of music, particularly in its current way in society of where people are like music is should be free and readily accessible for anybody.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: So the the math ain't always math.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I've I you know music has has paid bills for me, and it's been the bill for me in so many different capacities.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: So when I started, it was all minus.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was just paying to do music, yeah.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then and I was like, of course I will, like the same way I pay to go on holiday or to pay like this is the thing that I love to do more than anything.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'll pay to put out a project, what a privilege.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then it got to a point of where whoa, like people will pay me to do music, people pay me to make projects or to do live shows.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is amazing.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think what is what's then tricky for a lot of artists is when that then goes into reverse, and you stop seeing as much money coming in from your musical live shows, and you start going, Oh, does that mean I'm failing, or does that mean and and and it's hard, it's actually impossible to reverse park into the same mindset that you had before you were making money because you've you've taken all that experience and all of that stuff.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's you know, it's Leonard Cohen's got a uh a poem called Um uh I think it's called 10,000 Kisses Deep or something like that, and he talks about this idea of like living from the place of your like um invincible defeat, and I see that in so many of people like my age.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's how are you gonna live your life now from a point of like when life is always gonna kill you, you're always gonna die, you're always gonna get defeated.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: How are you gonna move from here?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, it's I for me, it's been about kind of remembering the kind of the core purpose of why I love music in the first place, and it's got nothing to do with money, literally, money is just yeah, you know, allows me to do it, yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and so the things like the Patreon are great because they just allow me to do it, and that's how I treat it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so put into this part, and all of this part of money that you invest in me will only come out in the music, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, man.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sorry, that was a bit of a long way.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no, no.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Super interesting.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I wasn't ready for the poetry, but that that hit me, it was profound, it was profound.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I like it.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So going back to um falling in love with music in the first place and stuff, like obviously now you kind of do everything, you do like writing, producing, singing, and rapping.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: What was your first step into music for yourself?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got a second part for this question as well.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when you're making music now, what is the first thing that you do?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the writing, producing, or whatever?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's yeah, it's such a good question.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it it has kind of come full circle.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: I started off as a guitarist, so I was just guitar mad, bro.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like Jimi Hendrix on my wall and all of that, just every night, just get home, headphones on, just like guitar solos and stuff, just dealing with the angst of life.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and that that was my that was my vibe, honestly, um, for a while.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I also I loved songwriting, but I didn't really have a great voice, and it I felt a bit embarrassed by it all, so I kind of kept that to myself.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but early days in Nottingham, I was very much like a producer.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'd produced for like I had a few bands and stuff.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Nottingham's very like band culture, yeah.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and just loved that, man.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm yeah, I'm so old that I actually had a like a digital four-track recorder was the first thing I produced on.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um I just loved it, man.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: I just came alive, just loved every moment of just of making music.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, wow, we can start with nothing and then we can end with a track that I can listen to and enjoy.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then yeah, moved to London, became a songwriter, did all of that stuff.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: But um I've kind of almost come full circle and I almost like start with producing at the moment.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I want to for me, production feels a little bit like the the sparks on the on the fire.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like okay, can I get something?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Can I rub these two sticks together and get something there?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Once I've created that feeling, that atmosphere, then I'll go to go to lyrics.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes what I try and do is I'll I'll go and try and match something up with maybe some poetry that I've written or some words or ideas that I've written and try and see if anything sticks.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's the kind that's the process at the moment, yeah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So during that period, did you just say that um you didn't like your voice at the beginning?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: What did you do to either build the confidence or kind of improve your voice?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's I yeah, it's a really good question.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it as I've always just struggled with it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's always felt a little bit like my left hand.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so odd that there's some things in life that I just feel very naturally confident with, even though there's not necessarily a reason for it, but I just feel like oh, this is my thing, I'm good at this.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like guitar, I started learning when I was 15, stopped learning when I was 16.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't got any better since I was 16.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I feel so confident in guitar.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a great guitarist, but I just feel like arts, this is what I do.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Singing, even though I've been singing a lot longer, I just yeah, it's always something I felt self-conscious about.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: What has what did help was I did some singing lessons, and that the first guy actually, um oh my goodness, I can't believe I forgot his name.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: But he's a friend of mine called um Trey Jean-Marie, who's actually a big time producer.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was his dad that taught me to sing, but he was so like um like Rafiki with it, right?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, lying.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ready to hear this, okay, and then like beating with the screen.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, like fully, I wasn't ready.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like I wasn't I just arrived like there from my first singing lesson.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of got out and I got on my guitar and I put the strap on around me.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, cool, I'm ready.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, put down the guitar, and I was like, what do you mean?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then he like made me put it down, and then he made me say, like, like, I am a singer, and I was like, I am a singer, no loud, he's saying, I am a singer, no loud, I want you to scream at me, I am a singer, and I had to like go then go outside his house and then like scream at outside, like yeah, like and he was just trying to like he's like you don't believe that you're a singer, that's your problem.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um, and it was actually super helpful, and he built a lot of confidence in me.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it wasn't just I've been to singing teachers since that's just like let's go up and down the piano, which is cool, yeah, but he really helped me believe in myself, I think, as a performer, which was really fundamental for me.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wow, that's cool, man.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's so sick hearing that those sort of like stories because I feel like it's so easy to come across like an artist and be like, yeah, well, this is all super well refined and we love it and stuff, but then it's like your own process and journey of it, it might be like so opposite to that.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: 100%, yeah.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: But well, it is a joke.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a great voice, so that's what I'm saying.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind, that's very kind.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, we're gonna take a slight pivot now, um, because obviously there's there's in the studio, and then there's like what do we do to like um I don't know, like express otherwise and to like release your mind sometimes.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you you like running.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: I do, yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like is maybe an interesting thing.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you maybe you run by run.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I I did a bit of digging and I noticed that you had uh a hackney half playlist.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed that this playlist was two hours and 29 minutes.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I wondered, did you complete it?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: If so, what was your time?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: How did you find it?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, that's so funny you found my hackney half playlist.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because that would be that's an insight into yeah, me maybe.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I I do I do love running.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know what it is?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I sound up a hackney half every year because it then keeps me fit from January until May.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm in I'm in my off season right now.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Until January, you won't catch me out running at all.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: So um, but yeah, this year was actually uh a bit of a unique year because I mean Nick decided to run it together.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um because we both do a bit of running and we realised we were getting the same sort of times, yeah, yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we were like, you know what, maybe if we run together, we'll go even faster because we'll be like, yo, I can't virtually um so yeah, I trained, I trained kind of reasonably well, but to be honest with you, I kind of shammed the training plan a little bit, and Nick was also expecting a baby that he's just had, yeah.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: He kind of shammed it a little bit as well.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we're both feeling a bit nervous for the time that we set, which what was it?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think, oh my gosh, I can't remember what we we said.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think we said, I think we were gonna try and do one, three, five.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but anyway, it got to the date.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: It got to the date, and yeah, about five, six K in, I was like, oh no.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: And when you were mad hot, right as well.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was hard, um and it wasn't feeling good.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: I just wasn't, you know what I mean?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you get that feeling, it's like, oh, I'm I'm just off.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's not the day, yeah.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm I'm something's not right in my body.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: So literally, like by 6k, I'm struggling.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: By 9k, I'm like to Nick, like, I'm so embarrassed.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: I actually can't even, I can't keep going.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have to go.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm like, I'm in the mud.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm in, I'm in run as hell.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm in the hole, all the voices are coming from me, like you know like the green goblin.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: You failed.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking, like, you know what?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just like, let's just quit now.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna I'm gonna just go home right now.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I decided I'll slow it down and then I was just gonna I'm just gonna finish it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I just enjoyed the rest of the list.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: 20k in, so the last kilometre, and I've just I've just had the time of my life, I've just been bopping around to my playlist, whatever.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: I get a tap on my shoulder, nick.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh really?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Nick's like yo job, yo.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I ran the last 10k just by myself, the last K, like someone's showing, it's like, yo Joe, like what are you doing here?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, oh man, like 15k, and I've just been like limping and walking and whatever.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we ran the last 1k together, finished it together.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Nice vibe.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: What a journey, yeah.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: 21k is not a joke, man.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Every year I'm like, why did I do this?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well done.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love you, you're a runner.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, as of six months ago.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, finally, finally into it, finally there.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you're yeah, so you're a 95, so you you're you're kind of due it now.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's on the script.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, nah, thousand.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's you have to pick one kind of side quest from 30 onwards.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've done I've gone into running coffee, like with ticking the boxes.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, 100%.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, yeah, short is your shortage like right now, like that's what it is.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is it buying a ticket into shortage?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you hit the running thing at the right time.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's cool to run now as well.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, bro, yeah, I know.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's expensive.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's not I've chosen to make it expensive as well.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because the shoes and stuff, and yeah, all of the gear and that probably shouldn't really run with a night top and Addidash shorts.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you've got to be able to get the ball.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be doing that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be doing that.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: You're a vest guy, you sorry?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: A vest, running a vest and that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or like the little nah my wife has that.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't have that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's weighing me down.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's weighing me down.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not running any crazy distances at the minute to warrant jails and this stuff, so we're just you don't have a little 5Ks.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do five K's to ten K's.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're building up, we're building up.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Half half is on the cars.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do you half next year?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Potentially, yeah, potentially.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I get in early, man.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, we want to let you crack on and get creative, it's been a pleasure.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for taking the time and speaking with us, man.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's been very fun.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: We've got some great insight into your creative process, into your life outside the studio as well.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, right.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's been great chatting.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate you guys.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Wicked.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate you.