Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / Issue 315: The Bad Batch Commentary: Return to Kamino

Transcript

Issue 315: The Bad Batch Commentary: Return to Kamino · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the nerd polity. Hi. This is Nick Nastasu, story editor
0:09
on Star Wars, The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
0:14
are listening to aggressive negotiations. Well, hello, and welcome to a Grussia
0:26
negotiations or I'm hold on, oh sorry that Mandel Mix. I can't stop
0:32
eating it. I oh, I'm just wonder your hosts. You're Matthew rushing
0:36
Anne with me as he is every single week. Mandel Mix expert John Mills
0:42
and is. Surprisingly what people don't realize is it's actually a health food.
0:46
Is evidenced by the fact that neither Record nor Omega put on weight while we
0:51
watched them eating it, so very obviously it's very healthy for you. So
0:56
I think that three meals a day of Mandel Mix is exactly what the doctor
1:00
prescribed. I mean, come on, Disney, you cowards, give us
1:03
Mandel Mix that we can buy. I would come on, why is this
1:07
not in Galaxy's Edge. I was just gonna say the asterisk on just like
1:12
the doctor prescribed, is that it's one of the mad doctors over at Mount
1:17
Tantas, the ones that prescribed it. So or I thought it was what's
1:22
his face? From the clonas Hi. Oh oh yeah, you know doctor
1:29
Zindy. I suppose I live in terror that Doctor Zindy like shows up in
1:34
some way at Tantas. He's like running. He's the one that creates like
1:40
the Maguay, because it is established in the Gremlins novelization that the Maguay were
1:46
actually created as a peace gift to go out into the known universe, so
1:53
we could tie in Star Wars, the World and Gremlins all in one.
1:57
Fell Swoop, I mean, wasn't wasn't he responsible for COVID? Anyway,
2:05
before we get into a territory we shouldn't get into. You want to find
2:09
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Star Wars podcasts out there, and if you appreciate aggressive negotiations and the fact
2:57
that we've been going for over three hundred episodes, help us out by reviewing
3:00
us and help more people find us. So, John, this is really
3:06
exciting though, because we are almost at the end. We're at the penultimate
3:08
episode of season one of The Bad Batch in our commentary Rewatch, and we're
3:15
going to be returning to Camino in this episode as the season two part finale
3:23
wraps up. We're gonna, of course do these as two different episodes though,
3:27
and so as always, we're going to give you a countdown three to
3:30
one. Play on play, You're going to hit play, so I will
3:36
give us a countdown and we will get rolling three two one. Play.
3:44
Oh man, I've been so excited about this two part finale for so long.
3:49
I've been waiting for it. Yes, this is the true definition of
3:53
a great finale arc because every time you come back, you get it cited
4:00
again. I know what's going to happen, what we're in store for,
4:03
and I'm still excited to go through it. And it is. It's just
4:10
it's going to be such a trip just to be able to offer commentary over
4:15
it. It is just returned to Camino, just like right there. Like
4:18
you you read that title and you're like, oh, okay, this is
4:23
what we've been waiting for. Yeah. Well, and you know, I
4:30
think this episode, of course, picking up off the last episode, Hunter
4:34
is in possession here, uh, you know, in the possession of Crosshair.
4:41
He's got him, he's bringing him back somewhere. We're most likely,
4:44
you know, with the title going back to Camino. And what's terrifying here
4:50
too is this whole season we haven't been quite sure whether or not we're going
4:57
to be able to reach Crosshair in any way, right And what's great about
5:02
this two part finale is in some ways we're going to put a stamp on
5:06
where Crosshair is as we wrap up the season. I still think that there's
5:15
a lot of import to the line. You know, even though we're watching
5:19
you know, we're watching Echo and Omego working on the ship and everything.
5:24
I think that there's so much import to the line that Crosshair said a moment
5:29
ago where when Hunter says they'll know it's a trap, and he says,
5:33
they'll still come for you. There's, Yes, there's a very strong hint
5:38
there of you didn't come for me, but they came for you, right,
5:44
Like there's some real hurt that Crosshair is feeling. Like. It's that
5:48
classic sort of codependent, needy but angry, like Crosshair doesn't know really what
5:58
he wants. Does he want them back in his life? Does he not
6:00
want them? And it's that competing loyalties things what makes cross here such a
6:05
fascinating character. You know, Yeah, I agree. The other best part
6:11
is that as we come into Camino is them using that classic attack of the
6:15
Clones Camino music, which is just so perfect. And it's one of those
6:21
things where I really appreciate in this show where they take, you know,
6:28
liberties with the music and the try new things. But I also love in
6:31
an episode like this where we use that music to perfection to call back to
6:36
this place that we've known for so long now and in many ways, after
6:43
that last episode where we're seeing you know, Camino get evacuated. We're seeing,
6:48
you know, the Camino Wins be kind of in a place where they
6:54
don't really know what's going to happen to them. You know, this whole
6:57
thing just brings bad vibe vibes as to where we're going with this planet in
7:02
the first place. Well, even Rampart just saying, you know, if
7:08
his plan fails, they're not gonna be a problem anyway. Did they just
7:12
heat it up right there? But it's a great tea up because you don't
7:15
know specifically how he is he mean just the batch? Does he mean what
7:20
we're afraid of that something's about to happen to Camino, you know, under
7:24
new management sort of thing. And there, you know, there's a lot
7:28
of subtext, I think, to what happens with Camino, What is happening
7:35
with Camino in this arc, there's a lot of subtexts about the horrors of
7:44
the year zero approach in any situation, whether it's in business, whether it's
7:49
in culture, whether it's in government. The new regime, Yeah, to
7:57
use the term, the new regime always wants to put their own stamp on
8:01
things, and they want complete ownership of everything. It's not enough to let
8:05
the people who are experts at something do a thing right. You must control
8:09
it and do it your way. Yes, and that's yes, that's awful,
8:15
and that like there's and again we've had this discussion before about how Star
8:18
Wars works best when it's something that's relatable universally. That's relatable universally. We've
8:24
all been in the situation. I've been in the situation where you know,
8:28
Company A buys the company I'm working for, and the first thought in your
8:33
brain is, oh, who's about to get cut? And they always come
8:35
in and like, oh no, no, no, no, hey,
8:37
we're just trying to increase efficiencies and then all of a sudden, you know,
8:41
eighteen hundred people lose their job the next day sort of thing. Yeah,
8:45
no, unfortunately they didn't bombard us. Yeah, I'm so glad you
8:48
brought that up, the idea of year zero, because I think it's the
8:52
perfect explanation for exactly what Palpatine is doing to the Galaxy, and of course
8:58
what we're seeing play out here on Camino. I also just love here is
9:03
that we have this surprise. You know, Omega keeps surprising our characters with
9:09
knowledge, and this where She's like, no, there's a secret platform and
9:16
I know how to get there. And this is another place where this whole
9:20
season has been kind of building up to the idea of who is Omega,
9:26
where does she come from, why does she exist? And this episode is
9:31
going to answer some of those questions as we actually get to see the part
9:35
of Camino she's most familiar with. And I think additionally, it's tremendous design
9:43
work here, with the way the pod elevator thing works, with the way
9:50
that the like everything about this feels like it was designed when the movie happened.
9:58
This does not feel out of place at all. This feels like something
10:01
I saw back in two thousand and two. And the thing is, I
10:07
hope everybody who watches this series, who studies anything about it, appreciates the
10:16
level of love and skill that goes into something like that to make it feel
10:20
authentic. How many movies, how many shows, how many franchise opportunities?
10:26
Do you see something and you're like, Ah, it doesn't look quite right.
10:30
It looks like it, but it's not quite there. Yeah. No,
10:35
I completely agree with you, and I think you're one hundred percent right
10:37
on that. I also love that this is an episode again we're digging into
10:43
how much the Clones here have rubbed off on Omega and them saying are you
10:50
okay? And she's like, it doesn't matter. Rescuing Hunter is all that
10:56
matters, which makes so much sense for a child who's had so much loss,
11:01
she can't take more loss, and so her whole being right now is
11:05
about making sure that this person who is so important in her life doesn't get
11:11
lost like others. You know, Nalisay was not evil to her. You
11:16
know, Nalisay with somebody who took care of her and actually is somebody who's
11:20
helped her. She doesn't know that right, but behind the scenes we know
11:24
that, you know what. As we're you know, with Hunter, and
11:30
they go into the command center on Camino and we see the stormtrooper clonetrooper in
11:37
between trooper like you know whatever you want to designate the designs or whatever,
11:41
you know what. It struck me like it struck me like seeing the Clones
11:45
on Embara, where you see that it doesn't fit, it doesn't work.
11:52
There's a visual language thing there of these people don't belong. This isn't their
11:56
environment. They're out of place. It's just like them being on Felusha.
12:03
It's just like all the other things where it's a really subtle visual signal of
12:07
you. You immediately see that jarring out of place nature. Two things,
12:16
the clones, strangely enough, including Clone Force ninety nine, they look a
12:20
part of Camino. They look like they belong there. There's a certain aesthetic
12:26
to the armor. But the in between troopers, they don't look right.
12:31
It looks wrong. Even though it's so similar, it looks wrong. It's
12:37
interesting too, because they are in the place now where they were actually created.
12:43
And Omega says something so interesting. She says, I was here when
12:48
it happened, which means she must be an unaltered clone in the sense of
12:54
she doesn't have growth acceleration the way they do, and so she's in some
13:01
ways older than them and yet younger than them all at the same time,
13:07
which creates this such an interesting dynamic here, for you know, she's their
13:13
older sister but also their younger sister at the same time. But it also
13:20
explains a lot about why Wrecker and Omega get along because Recker is a little
13:24
bit his maturity curve is a bit different than his brothers, It's true,
13:31
and get stuck in out of lessons being generous. Yes, you know,
13:37
let's say tweens, how about that? Yeah, he still like to blow
13:43
stuff up and eat Mandelmex all day, exactly that. But the thing is
13:48
it doesn't need to be expressly stated in that moment, you get that oh
13:52
yeah, okay. Well that's why Recer and Omega are such a perfect pair
13:56
because emotionally, developmentally, he's pretty much just right there with her, and
14:01
that's why he's such a good companion for her, you know, and less
14:07
of the teacher that Hunter is at this point. What I love here too
14:16
is that we plant the seed between Hunter and Crosshair, Hunter saying you're not
14:24
realizing you're being used, and Crosshair saying you're not seeing the bigger picture.
14:30
And what's interesting is that this is the theme that's going to play out all
14:35
the way through the rest of season two, is this discussion who's right and
14:43
who's going to find out before it's too late. And that's what's so great
14:48
about this show is that the writing has done so well that we're always planting
14:56
the seeds for what's coming next. I love seeing them run down the like
15:03
run down the hallway, and honestly, the I guess I just adopted calling
15:09
them the in between Troopers. Pushing the gravity sled with stuff is so evocative
15:16
of the troopers pushing han Yes through Cloud City. Yes, it's a little
15:24
little love mark well, and I also think of just like the troopers walking
15:28
down the hallways and the Death Star as well, you know. So,
15:35
yeah, it's they do a great job with that. It's so interesting too
15:41
to find places in Camino that are actually dark and gray as opposed to just
15:46
that pristine white. Speaks that that sort of dual nature like that, the
15:56
sort of like going all the way back to Metropolis of like, you know,
15:58
you have the big pristine city up top, but then you have the
16:02
ugly machinery that makes it run. Yeah. Well, and I think it
16:07
places that idea of like that, there's this yin and yang to the Camino
16:12
Ins in the first place, right, there is this desire for order and
16:18
beauty and all of these things. And then what they do with their knowledge
16:22
though, is dubious at best in many ways, you know. And I
16:26
think that's something that we're really getting a taste of here in this episode,
16:33
right, is that all of their machinations behind the scenes, all of their
16:38
plans are coming undone because they made the wrong bet. And I love that
16:48
even when they've lost, even when cross Error says you won't need your weapons,
16:55
they don't make a move until Hunter gives a very barely perceptible nod go
17:00
ahead and do it, boys, It's fine. They're still following Hunter's lead
17:04
even in this situation. I love these droids that work on Camino. I
17:19
think they're just so great. They are great. It's the whimsical Star Wars
17:26
stuff that everybody is dismissive of it, but it's the same thing that created
17:33
the same impulse that gave us three P and R two e walks jar jar
17:40
ug knots even you know. It's also interesting is that these droids they're about
17:45
to send up are very reminiscent of some droids that we'll see in Oh yeah,
17:51
the Mandalorian. Yes indeed, Yes, indeed, I don't. You
18:00
don't talk enough about a deep Bradley Baker and the way which each one of
18:06
these clones has such a distinct voice, and he's going back and forth in
18:11
the dialogue and it's just, I mean, it's kind of chilling how good
18:17
he is at creating characters. That sound similar but also have a completely different
18:23
personality and feel like completely different people. It's amazing personally. I hope he
18:30
gets paid individually for each character as he should. He should, would that
18:36
would be justified. I think I could not agree with you more and he
18:41
really do. He really does seem like the world's nicest guy too, you
18:45
know, any any time, see any interview on stage, he just feels
18:49
like the most jolly person. Which is also great because he plays the dichotomy
18:56
between these characters so well, some of them being really good and some of
19:00
them being more like Crossair right now, who's being a little bit of a
19:03
jerk? A little bit, just a little bit a little bit. I
19:07
was putting it in a family friendly way. John, Although I will say
19:11
that I wish that they would release a Black series figure that is the the
19:18
charcoal gray Clone Trooper uniform, because as you know, I'm in a ficionado
19:25
of the armor, and I think that one's out there. Actually, I
19:30
think they wait for real at the beginning of the Bad Batch. Yes,
19:33
so I think find it. How did I miss that? I don't know,
19:37
Seriously, there are so many that come out. Yeah, But that's
19:44
the thing, is like I got my record because you know, I mean,
19:45
that's not negotiable. But like, no, I didn't know I missed
19:48
that one, because that one I have just as much affection for as the
19:52
shock Trooper, the red and white from that were first introduced in episode three,
20:00
the shock Troopers. I have a passion for that armor and the charcoal
20:03
gray Clone Trooper. And it's right up there. M hmm. Yeah.
20:12
And just and just the sudden turnaround of Crosshair killing his Imperial compatriots like it's
20:26
a reversal on a reversal. It's it's one of those things that the show
20:33
has the capacity to surprise like that. M h yes. I remember the
20:41
first time I saw it, Like, it just completely floored me. I
20:44
was like, wait what and contributes to that complexity of the character. Join
20:57
the Empire and you will have per again. Well, and this is this
21:04
is the thing that I really love about this season. So we spent all
21:08
of this time showing how the rest of Clone Force ninety nine has completely moved
21:15
on from this idea of good soldiers follow orders and cross Hairs stuck right not
21:25
just because of the chip in his head, but also because of the fact
21:30
that they have taken that chip and they've accentuated it in him, so he's
21:36
basically just almost an automaton when it comes to following orders. He can't make
21:42
a different decision right now. Well, the inhibitor chip, that's a matter
21:53
to be left open for discussion. Well, I mean, but remember that
22:00
how much of a factor it's going to the spot where like they they like
22:04
gave him the shock treatment or whatever. That was true, and so that's
22:10
true. They broke him. That's that's a good point. They broke him.
22:18
But then how how amazing is it that with visual language they're able to
22:30
make the make us understand that this trooper that stepped into the situation completely misinterprets
22:37
it all and thinks that the dead Imperial troopers were by the hand of the
22:45
droids, not a betrayal from crossair, and doing that without any dialogue,
22:52
just the shots. That's that's so straightforwardly, Lucas. It's breaking it down.
23:03
This is a visual medium. You have to be able to tell the
23:06
story without a single word. Can you do that? That's your challenge,
23:11
And that specific moment passes the test and they're there Tarkins saying you may fire
23:26
when ready that's our little love note that because that's a line from the original
23:32
Star Wars. And then we have Ah the Destroyer coming through with the lightning
23:37
and the clouds. What an amazing shot. You know what It's also interesting
23:44
is that we're back in this room where the crew had to try and prove
23:49
their worth to Tarket in the first place, and now we're back here and
24:02
the focus pull as Crosshair turns around and there's Wrecker coming down his family.
24:15
Now everything's flipped. They don't want to kill him either. He didn't want
24:18
to kill them. He wants them to be in the mission, and now
24:22
they want him. I've had my chip removed a long time ago. That's
24:33
the moment a Hunter, like the reaction shot of Hunter and then everybody else
24:41
since when does it matter? Well? And what I like about this too
24:48
is the reveal of you know. And one of the things about Star Wars,
24:53
right is we're always looking for how a character is going to be redeemed.
25:00
But I think right now, telling this story where a character continues to
25:06
choose what we know to be evil what's wrong, is really an interesting story
25:12
to tell. And I'm very glad that they did not do the redemption arc
25:22
this easily right. That if we're going to find a way in any way
25:26
to redeem this character, that is gonna have to be very hard fought,
25:32
Like he's gonna have to get to the very rock bottom of himself for that
25:36
to happen. And whether or not that happens, we don't know yet.
25:41
I just I think that that is something that again we just we really don't
25:45
honestly see in Star Wars very often, and so I appreciate them telling this
25:52
story in this way. Yeah, it's it's respecting that it has to feel
26:03
earned. And just the Venitors going into position and opening fire. What an
26:17
amazing moment they're in there, the weapons are going off and seeing everything raining
26:25
down. They're in their home, Omega's in her home. They're literally decimating
26:32
the only home that they would ever know. Yeah, callously, just because
26:41
they can. And Rampart is doing it not just because he's following orders.
26:52
He's getting pleasure from it too. Yeah. And then that cliffhanger of just
26:57
ending and the screen going black and just thinking wait, wait what No,
27:06
Like that's the perfect break. That's the perfect cliffhanger break right there, And
27:11
even even though it's a cliffhanger, break everything internally to this episode is resolved.
27:19
That's what so many movies and so many movies, so many TV shows
27:26
forget. You have to resolve the internal story arc. You can have more
27:32
to tell, but everything's got to be. Everything's resolved, and Empire strikes
27:36
back when it gets the end, even though it's a cliffhanger, even though
27:37
Hans out there, even though Vader's still out there, even though the Amper
27:40
is still out there, it's internally resolved. Same with Attack of the Clones.
27:47
Yeah, but but it ends, and you say, wait, no,
27:49
no, no, no, no, I have to I have to
27:52
go to see the next one. And that's that's where I'm emotionally with this.
27:56
I have to see the next one. I like something you said there
28:00
about Rampart just struck me because I think one of the things that we begin
28:06
to see, especially with him as a character, is that there are a
28:10
lot of these imperial officers who are those kind of megalomaniacal maniacs who really get
28:18
pleasure out of the power, out of hurting others, out of being able
28:22
to lord themselves of the others. And this is the thing that Palpatine is
28:27
using to be able to build his empire on, which you know, creates
28:32
its own set of problems. I mean, obviously we see that even all
28:34
the way to Star Wars, where you've got these you know, admiral bureaucrats
28:40
bickering in the Death Star conference room. You know, we see it in
28:47
an and or right, the IBS agents that are bickering back and forth and
28:53
trying to back stab each other to get ahead, and you know, it
28:57
creates this thing that I think yate, some instability that then will lead to
29:03
a rebellion, being able to find cracks, right. And so what I
29:07
love is that this is a setting that up here almost from the very beginning
29:12
of the Empire, which is phenomenal. It is phenomenal. And like I
29:21
said, the show ends exactly when it should, exactly how it should,
29:26
doesn't stay on for an extra scene, doesn't get greedy about anything, It
29:32
resolves it needs to be resolved for this specific episode, and then closes it
29:38
in such a way where I gotta know what comes next, You gotta know
29:42
what comes next, and the people out there got to know where they can
29:45
reach you on social media and on the internet. Well, you could do
29:51
that all over the place I am Matt Rushing zero two, so the places
29:55
I'm most active, Twitter, Instagram, letterboxed Varo. You can also find
30:00
me here on the network. I have a completed show that I did with
30:03
Drea Kaufman is about the Harry Potter series and we talked about every single chapter
30:07
of Harry Potter, so you can check that out. It's completed, so
30:11
you can enjoy the entire show now. You can also find me over on
30:15
the TFM network. I have a bunch of shows that I'm doing. One
30:19
is called the six or two Club. We talk about all of the fantoms
30:22
we love, whether it's Star Wars, Bond, Marvel, DC, Lord
30:27
of the Rings, Harry Potter, you name it, we're talking about it.
30:30
So I hope you'll check that out. John and I do a couple
30:33
of bonus shows there as well, Snyder Cuts and Assembling Avengers, where we
30:37
go deep into specific topics and that's a blast. You get all of that
30:42
in one feed. You can also find me over They're doing Literary Treks,
30:45
which is about the books and the comics of Star Trek, or five,
30:48
which is a Star Trek Enterprise show, the ORB about Star Trek Deep Space
30:52
nine Saddle Up about Strange New Worlds, and the Artificial Tango is covering the
30:59
final season now of Star Trek Picard season three, so you want to check
31:03
that as well. But John, you know, maybe you know people are
31:07
wondering where they can get that Mandel mix. You keep talking about, where
31:11
can people find you? Oh my gosh, I like i'd ever share that.
31:15
That's just I don't know that would be a true test for me.
31:18
But you can go ahead and you can find me out there on the wilds
31:21
of the Internet as Kessel, Junkie, k s, s l Ju,
31:23
and Kie. I'm on tons of social media platforms, but the one I
31:27
have the most fun on is Letterbox because all you can do is talk about
31:30
movies there, and I love to talk about movies, just like Matt loves
31:33
to talk about movies. And that's why I am over there on the six
31:37
or two Club and with assembling Avengers and Snyder Cuts and all of those sorts
31:41
of things. But you can also find me here on the Nerd Party Network,
31:45
co hosting a show called house Lights where we look at the work of
31:49
directors through different criteria and pairings and series and all of that sort of things,
31:53
a lot of fun. But with all of that said, I have
31:57
to get in my re up for a subscription Amandel Mix my next six month
32:04
supply. So Master Rushing, I believe, is that it is time to
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close these negotiations. John, negotiations are closed. Join the Revolution, Join
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the Nerd Party.