Latest / Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!! / From Dominatrix to Inner Peace: How Shadow Work and Kink Are Basically Twins

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From Dominatrix to Inner Peace: How Shadow Work and Kink Are Basically Twins · Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!!

• Tina Estrella: you Peter: Hello, welcome to another exciting episode of Pete versus Anxiety. My guest today is a certified existential kink coach, eternal family system informed practitioner, and a former professional dominatrix. You heard that right, guys. Please welcome in the one, the only, Australia. Tina, welcome in so much. Pete: Ever wish you had someone to talk to anytime, anywhere, matter what you're going through? Meet PsychPAL, your 24-7 AI companion, designed to help you process your thoughts, calm your mind, and keep you moving forward. Chat anytime during a panic attack on a restless night or just when you need to vent. Prefer talking instead of typing? Try voice journaling. PsychPAL listens, transcribes, and truly understands. You can even upload screenshots of tough conversations, and it'll help you unpack how they made you feel. PsychPAL keeps life organized, too. Tina Estrella: Hello Peter, thanks so much, that was a juicy introduction. Peter: So Tina comes in from our good friend Catherine from the Willow Healing Matters podcast. So of course, naturally we had to say yes to her, of course, because Catherine never says anybody bad over here for me. So Tina, why don't you tell a bit a little more on yourself and then we'll get into that interesting intro right there. peter: Show ⁓ Pete: It can add appointments to your calendar, track your mood, and even summarize your sessions for your therapist so you'll never lose progress. Plus, built-in crisis resources are always just one click away. It's a privacy-first, constantly evolving, made to complement your professional care, not replace it. Ready to try it out? Head over to the link in this episode and use my code, Pete, at checkout to get 20 % off your first month subscription to PsychPAL. PsychPAL, because your mind deserves a companion too. Tina Estrella: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, my name is Tina Sreja. I work currently as an existential king coach certified and I did some coaching training. I actually, what I'm always saying is like, I give people permission slips to come to their inner truth, knowing that the answer is already inside of themselves. Cause that's what we do. Like we remember now we know. because we just forgot. Peter: So Tina, naturally, you know, our first question is how do we get from dominatrix to where we're now? Because I think this is an interesting starting point to the end point of these things. So, and I know you're, have you always been, have you always been in the Berlin area though? Tina Estrella: Yeah. ⁓ I am like German by birth. So I was born in Germany, but then I grew up in Brazil. So when I was 12, we went for six years to Rio de Janeiro. So I spent most of my youth there and then we went back to Germany, which I did not like that much at the time. And so now I'm currently also having plans to move to Malta because Germany is very cold in winter. Peter: Okay, okay. Awesome. Well, I happen to be... So you have a fellow German here by the way, Tina. By the way, I'm German and Polish. So my mom's side is German, my dad's side is Polish. So I was like, so, but anyways, how did we get from Dominatrix to where you now? Cause I think this is going to be an interesting story because, know, I was like, I read your profile. I was looking at it a little bit. I know a little bit more, but let's, let's give everybody a little rundown of how we got to where we're at now. Tina Estrella: ⁓ interesting. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Thank you. So, dominatrix was a part of my own healing journey. I was officially by now misdiagnosed in my 20s with severe depression and ⁓ borderline syndrome and the things that especially women were diagnosed back then who actually today get diagnosed and I know I am ADHD and also part of the autism spectrum. Peter: Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: And it, for me, that BDSM world, at some point, I don't even know how it came into my field, but it sounded like so interesting. I was like instantly drawn like a magnet to it. And then I started on the other side. I started on receiving, on being ⁓ on the receiving end. And I very soon... Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Tina Estrella: realized like the safest way to explore that side would be in a professional context, because there's always other women looking after, just my microphone, other, looking after the subs. And so I did. It was also this very taboo thing to do, you know, it was like typical for ADHD people go like for the stuff. And from there, I was like, Peter: Mm-hmm. Exactly. was going to get to I was going to say the same thing, but yeah. No, I was gonna say the same thing though, it's taboo a little bit, so, but you hit it already for me. Tina Estrella: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. It was this wild taboo thing to do. ⁓ then after a while I transitioned into being more a dom because it just naturally comes, it makes more sense. Like being sub in a professional context is intense. Like I just let it be for my more private experiences. But the dom thing is, it was fun. It was a fun way to make money. Peter: Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: You Peter: Oh, listen, hey, listen, if people want to pay you to do whatever you have, listen, amen to that. That's why I say, you know, they're going to pay you to it. Why not? You know, go for it. That's why I say. Tina Estrella: Yeah. And it's all like, it's very interesting because like now with the existential king coaching, it's very similar. It's very similar. If you want to be a good dom, you need to be able to tap into people's nervous system and find out what are their desires without them telling you explicitly, because very often clients don't know yet what they want. I'm here to help them. And if you have a good notion what that might be. Peter: Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: You already have like half of the journey because you know which tools would work best and which questions to ask them so we don't like stagger around in the darkness forever together. So in the dominatrix profession, that is like total key, like being full attention outward, full attention on the client. In coaching, it's not much different, just different clothes, different context. Peter: Mm-hmm. Nom. I thought to tell you what, I was interested in the minute I read your profile when I said that, because I'm like, this is interesting because a lot of people, like you said, say it's taboo. But I think it's a lot of people just don't understand that, you know, how that side works. And they only see what they see on the outside. And people always judge, you know, everybody's quick to judge things regardless of what it is, you know, they always judge all that kind of stuff. I have a friend that that's her community and things like that, too. And I respect and, you know, talks about all the other stuff that comes with it and things like that. Me, I Not really my area, they said, hey man, more power to people. I support whatever people want to do. That's their own decision. You know, I don't judge people like I've heard weird stories of things, you know, but if that's your thing, hey man, that's cool, you know, but I think it's so interesting though, the way that you're talking about how they need to basically kind of figure things out ahead of time though, because it's interesting. Because you're right, you want to figure out what they're looking for. That way they keep coming back. they're not going be like, if you can't figure out what they want, you're not really fitting that need for them in that role. Am I not correct? Tina Estrella: Yeah. I mean, that for me, was always like my, I want it to be a good dom. I want it be a good dom in Atrix. And that came with those exact same skillsets, like as a good coach is like being able to have my attention on them. Like what is their nervous system telling me? Trying out different approaches and then seeing how their nervous system reacts. How does their animal body respond to new impulses? Peter: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: because it's very much about, so in the dominatrix ⁓ field, it's very much about like having someone, giving someone the space, the health space to experience sides of them. They didn't first permit themselves to experience and very often not even know that those sides are inside of them. And so with internal family system and existential concordia is the same thing. It's like letting people, giving people a health space, a container. where they can explore parts of them that until now seemed like very taboo, very not welcome, that don't make sense to the logical mind. So again, it's very similar. It's just different clothing and then obviously other contexts and different practices, but deep down it's very similar. Peter: Yeah, ⁓ yeah, definitely. So how come, why did you leave the profession? it just because you got more interested in the other coaching side of it? You figured, you know what mean? It's interesting how you ended up where you're at now, but it's like you said, a lot of the principles are the same. So it had to be kind of a smooth transition for you though, because same principles apply basically as you get into this other stuff too. Tina Estrella: Hmm. Well, I had a whole different phase in between. In between was my yogic phase, my meditation phase, my wearing only white and chanting mantras. And that was, so I entered the spiritual work and support through the more, I always call it the dark Shakti side. And then there was this natural inclination to also try the ⁓ light and love and light field. And also, I mean, Peter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tina Estrella: We got to be super honest. There is a lot of weird people outside in the BDSM section as well. Like a lot of people were like, I always were like in this position where I said like, dude, you don't need a dominatrix. You need like skilled psychotherapists. Sorry. Like I can't help you. Peter: Teeth is like that request is a little too weird for even me man. I don't know about this one. Tina Estrella: There is like, you get weird requests and there's like strange people out there. and, so at some point I just went all on the other side of the spectrum and did some healing work there and did some learned bodywork, energetic bodywork. I started doing workshops with, ⁓ did a yoga teacher training, all that stuff. And then. Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Tina Estrella: It came back around full circle with the existential thinking coaching, because at some point I also realized not everything in the world is love and light. Let's be honest. It's not. There's a lot of darkness out there. The human psyche, the human condition includes very dark stuff. So for me, it was more coming back to like the more conscious side of, of B2C MEM. Peter: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hell yeah. Yeah, I mean, but you like you said, though, it's it's one of those things where, know, there there are some weird people. think that's what people see, though, when they hear that they just see that weird people. don't accept what it is, you know. And I think a lot of people really taboo when it comes to that kind of thing, you know, because like some partners I've had are OK with talking about it out loud. Other people aren't. And it's just like, you know, it's just really weird because, know, it's like, OK, and then it's. Tina Estrella: Yeah. Yeah. Peter: You know what mean? To me, I'm just like, hey, whatever, I'll have a conversation about anything. Me and my friend that like she's like said, it's her area that she's into all that kind of stuff. She told me about it. OK, cool. Educate me a little more so I understand this conversation better. Like I was never turned down a conversation about certain things. Now, sometimes they get a lot of hand, you know, and things like that. But, you know, it's going to happen. You know, some people are just not OK with certain conversation things. But, you know, I was curious. Listen, I'm open to listening to anything anybody wants to talk about, that kind of thing. Just because, you know, it's like, don't want people to feel weird. Like, I mean, you don't have to feel what you're into, what you're into. That's your thing, man. You know what I mean? Like, like some people are into other things that people want. You know what mean? It's to me, I'm just like, hey, man, whatever. I thought it was funny. I was laughing when I saw your profile, though, because I saw that how it goes from Dom Matrix to what is now. was just like, I was like, yeah, I got to talk to Tina. This is going to be fucking great. I'm interested how we got how we got to point A to point B at this point, you know, and it's something that my dad and I were actually talking about it, Tina. He was talking about how in Tina Estrella: Totally. Totally. Peter: when he was early on in his career, he was hanging out with some people that were into like getting tied to the wall and weird shit. And he's just like, not for me, man. Hey, but that's really that's cool, man. He just started telling me, it's like really random stories. I'm like, OK, well, you know, because I was telling my parents, I was asked about like some of the guests I talked to and then your your came through when Catherine sent me back. say, hey, pops, I got to show you this. We got to talk. I want to show you this really quickly. This is going to be an interesting conversation, you know. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, that'd be kind of it. Yeah, that's gonna be interesting. You know what mean? He's he's always interested in who I'm talking to. So when we talked about your profile, he started talking about all these other random things. I'm like, pops. said, listen, when you want to come on the show, we can talk about all these weird things you're telling me right now, bro. We can go down the list of oddball things you want to share. Tina Estrella: It does make zero sense to the logical mind. That's the whole point about it all. It does make zero sense to the logical mind. The logical mind goes like, why would I have someone tie me up and spank my ass? It does not make any sense. And yet there are parts of us who totally love that weird shit. If it's not in that form, it's something else. Peter: Yeah. Tina Estrella: that like all those patterns that we find ourselves in that we're like, why am I still doing this thing? I know it's not serving me. I know I want something else and yet I find myself here doing this toxic thing again, whatever not. those are same, that's the same dynamics is like our subconscious has a lot of weird, strange preferences that the logical mind's like, no. Peter: Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: And yet, well, well, if you look at what you're actually doing, so there's kink stuff in regular life that if you look at it, yeah, it's... And so BDSM gives this very explicit permission slip to just try it out. So very often I would also have people who came with certain fantasies, they had certain fantasies, and then when they tried it out, there was like... Peter: Exactly. Yeah but just, but the same thing though too though. Tina Estrella: that's not my thing and other things that were like no that's like and when they tried it out, they were like, ⁓ my god, it's so good. you know, what we never tried, we don't know. Peter: You never know until you try. Exactly. Tina, I think of the same thing. You never know until you try, man. You try and then you don't, you know, it's not your thing. I get it completely, you know. But at the same time, it's a respect thing too, because I know a lot of times in that community, there's a lot of misunderstanding and people get a little out of hand is what I hear a lot of people say sometimes too, you know. So it's a mutual respect thing that you understand. There's boundaries to things, you know, and all that kind of stuff like that and all that kind of stuff. So, but I do know that you're Your work here says that you do shadow work though, which is interesting because one of my all time guests on this show, he holds the most appearances, actually does shadow work. Melissa Kim quarter actually has been on the show several times. So how did you get into shadow working? Was that something you just kind of fell into along the way, your journey of your own past traumas and things, or is it just something you've always been interested in? Tina Estrella: It just appeared, I think naturally from being in this white clothing, yogic, let's emulate ⁓ the perfect version of ourselves and still not getting the results that I wanted. That's what I always tell everybody. No matter what you try, no matter what you're looking at, no matter what tools you want to try, aren't they giving you the results that you're looking for? Peter: Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: If they are amazing, keep doing them. If they're not, try something else. And so the whole meditation and yoga practices and nervous system hacks and whatever not, they did work to a certain degree. And still there was a lot of unresolved things and patterns that would just not shift. They would not shift. I would find myself back again, again, again, again. Peter: Yeah. Tina Estrella: And that's when Shadow War came in. We're like that, that, and for me, it made so much sense once I heard about the concept, because I had already been in BDSM. So I was very familiar how it feels inside of your body, inside of your nervous system to allow that idea that there are parts of you that your shadow does love. Peter: Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: things that you in your logical mind say like, nay, yet there is parts of you, your shadow, that's kind of the same thing, depending on how you frame it, that is like, yay, yes, totally, let's keep doing this because X, Y, Z. And so that shadow work just, it naturally emerged. I was always very curious person. I was always very ⁓ open for. Peter: Yeah. Tina Estrella: trying new things again, like it comes down to trying new things. And so that shadow work just came up and it started to shift a lot with the caveat though, that I then soon also discovered that a lot of people who do shadow work end up being in what I call shadow work addiction is like, got to try something new. It's got to be something new, got to be something new. Keep on doing something new all the time. Peter: Yeah. Tina Estrella: And I was like, at some point, like, that doesn't make so much sense. Why does it have to be always something new? You know, when you have found something that helps you also doing this consistently, that's a whole, that's a whole new, um, or how are the topic where people struggle? They like people who are prone to addiction when they come to shadow work, they get prone to like this endless navel gazing, this endless looking deeper. got to. Peter: Exactly. Tina Estrella: Like analysis paralysis, I got to understand more. need like, no, at some point you just got to do the things, do the practice, even when it gets hard, especially when it gets hard. Peter: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, a times it gets hard for people. They give up, you know, and a lot of times it's like, you know, people that do like talk therapy, for example, like they have to do the work afterwards. They don't do the work afterwards. It's OK. We're going to keep going in this vicious endless cycle that we're in. You know, but I get that, you know, I guess it's interesting because, know, like for shadow work, a lot of people I know. Remember, what was it? Tick tock made it big for a lot of people when they really started seeing it because they had the shadow work journals they were handing out to people and they were selling to people to do. Tina Estrella: Yeah? Yeah. Peter: and things like that as well. So I always thought it interesting, but Melissa's topic, that's her area though. She came back for the fourth time and we were talking about her new book, but that's what she does a lot too. So when I saw Shadowworking, I was like, ⁓ this is really going to be interesting too, because I love talking about it. Because a lot of people don't understand the concept. maybe for somebody at home that may be thinking about it, what would the ideal person be that Shadowworking would work for, would you say? In your own opinion, honestly. Tina Estrella: Yeah, so in my perspective, I find it very hard to say who's the ideal person for a certain tool because everybody needs to try for themselves. What I can say is like, what in my perspective Shadow Work is and what it is not, because I know a lot of people get tripped up about what is Shagli work actually. The term shadow, you could also say is like the parts inside of your psyche that don't look so good on the outside, that don't, ⁓ you don't like very much about yourself. Those parts that keep you running on certain patterns where you're like, why am I doing this? Why am I still doing this? I know it doesn't serve me and yet I keep doing it again and again. And so integrating. Peter: Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: those parts, integrating that shadow of yours does not mean that it will go away. That's not what is integration. Integrating means that you learn how to love those parts of yourself and how to encode their message, encode their true gifts that they're trying to give you through this behavior. from the family system perspective, there's no such thing as an internal enemy. they are, your shadow is trying to give you something beautiful, deep, deep, deep down. There's just all those patterns and those behaviors that are layered over this intention. Cause they never learned, those parts of you never learned that there are other options. They have been trying for God knows how long. Peter: Yeah. Tina Estrella: to do this one thing because that's the only avenue that they perceive as that is the way to give it to you. And so you keep up always being like, but it's not working. ⁓ And when you shame them and when you blame them yourself, you know, when the inner critic is very loud, that's what keeps you stuck in this loop of like, I don't want to do this anymore, but the part of me wants, but I don't like it. So I shame this part of me. And so that part just keeps like, Peter: Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: you know, grinding harder and harder and you never get out of it. It's this drama, triangle, carousel, inter-only ongoing forever and forever. And so shadow integration means exactly that. Befriending those parts of you that seem to harm you, but their intention is not, that's not their intention. So finding out what is that they are actually trying to give you with that behavior and then... bringing them on board, giving them a seat at the table, giving them your love. And then you both can find different ways of giving you that original deep down beautiful thing that they're trying to give you. Peter: Yeah, yeah, so well Tina was talking about shadow working I looked up the definition ⁓ And this is what it came back with basically simply breaks it down as parts of me I am uncomfortable with but and why you know basically like you were just saying but it's like bringing the patterns into awareness so that they're you're less likely ⁓ You tell you less likely to control your reactions and habits and things like that. So I mean, I think it's a great idea for people, because sometimes you can find things out about yourself you may not realize. Sometimes we do have those hidden patterns and things that you know, like look at people's dating lives. You ever notice that people date the same person and they get the same results, and then they go, well, why is me instead of changing up the pattern? then, you know I mean? Because you don't realize it. You know, and I noticed that by myself too, like my, my fast few firings. I dated a narcissist for 15 years and then I got into another one. I got married to a narcissist after it. And now it's different because now I've actually gotten a chance to look at it and realize the pattern I was going through. so I changed the pattern. So now I can't sit there and blame myself, blame anybody but myself because I didn't notice these things. But, know, but I think general work is a great tool though. think a lot of people, I think though at the same time are scared to find out about those inner things. Because we don't like learning about ourselves sometimes. We don't like to know these things. People don't like their emotions out of that. Or they're afraid of their emotions because they're not sure. Sometimes there's an answer to why you're angry all the time. For years, I never even knew that. I was always an angry person. There's always a situation I get into. And it always just get me upset. And I could never figure out what it was. And then when I started exploring things, I found out it was a trigger from when I was a kid because my mom abandoned me when I was 10. Tina Estrella: Mm. Peter: And at the time I didn't think anything. I'm 10 years old, don't know anything. You're still underdeveloped mind at that point, has no idea. But I remember that moment physically, like my body remembers it, but mentally I didn't totally remember the whole situation. Like I said, I go back to that moment and anytime I get in that feeling or I feel like someone's going to leave, I usually get into a very triggering moment where I'll start pushing people away, for they can push me, kind of thing like that too. So I've done a lot of self-reflecting this past year. and start accepting my faults for where I was. And my life's gone a lot better now, man. It's been great. I met something new. You know, me and my kids don't have a relationship at this point. Have a relationship now. We're talking more and things like that, too. So, you know, it's been great, though. And shadow working has been helping out with that, too, because when I met Melissa, I was introduced to the concept of it. And then, you know, TikTok came out because everybody loves TikTok with the shadow working journals and things like that, too. But I had this person in front of me, an expert that knows what she's doing. So. I was working with her with it a little bit, know, and things like that too. And I started exploring a lot of different things about myself that I didn't realize after really looking back at it. You you start noticing the little ticks and little patterns of things you're doing, you know, and all the self-destructing cycles you go through and all that kind of stuff like that. And it's interesting to see, but at the same time, you know, I being the person who never liked to take responsibility for anything, I had to start taking a lot of responsibility for what parts I had in things instead of blaming everybody. which was one of my biggest downfalls too, because I blame everybody else. I'd never take my own blame for anything I did. It always was somebody else's fault, it was never Pete's fault, and things like that too. It was the hardest thing I ever did, but it was the greatest thing I ever did, because it changed my perspective on things, it changed the way people looked at me, and things like that, and changed a lot of my relationships and things like that, but for the better, not for the worse. Tina Estrella: Shadow work very often is not comfortable. Peter: ⁓ no. Tina Estrella: It's not comfortable at the beginning. Then further on, when you like get to the point where like, ⁓ you'd start to lean into that discomfort. You start to lean into that trigger at the beginning. You want to get away from it because it's uncomfortable because it makes you look at your own shit. Like you said, you at some point, you got to start a look at your own shit and at your own contribution to toxic family patterns and Peter: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah. Tina Estrella: If there's a narcissist, there's a complimentary narcissist, there's another person, like a narcissist by themselves. They're like, you know, those patterns compliment each other. And so at the beginning it's very uncomfortable to look at that. Like, ⁓ my God, that like, I definitely played a role in this as well. Peter: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a lot. Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: And over time we learned that like looking at these things and leaning into that discomfort, it's like going to the gym. When you start out, when you haven't worked out for a long time and you start going to the gym, ⁓ my God, it's such a fucking struggle. It's so annoying. Every time you're like, ⁓ don't want to go there. It's so intense. It's so hard. And then over time you start build that muscle and you start to like, like that discomfort of. Peter: Yes, God, yes. That's soreness that you got next morning? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: ⁓ yeah, let me go there a little bit. ⁓ You know, it gets juicy. Same with shadow work and same with, with, so that's why I like internal family systems so much. It's because it's a very gentle way of shadow work. is shadow work, but it's a very gentle. It's the process itself is so kind and so loving and so nurturing. So, ⁓ Peter: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: So because shadow work is a, is an umbrella term for many different kinds of practices. And the ones that I had encountered before, ⁓ my God, they were intense. were like going deep down into the mud. And I was like, ⁓ my God, I've been doing this so much in my life. Isn't there something like sweeter? Can I like do this kind of work a bit less like, you know, bootcamp at the gym? Where's the Pilates? I want to do shadow Pilates, please. Peter: Yeah. The sound effects are great. Hey. Tina Estrella: Pilates is super intense, but it's not like someone's, ⁓ is super intense. It is very productive. It is, but there is also a very gentle thing to it in itself. ⁓ so that's why I landed with internal famous system and also existential kink because they're like very, it's this very, there's so much approval. It's like this very approving of, yeah, today. ⁓ Peter: Yoga is the same way too though, I I agree with you Tina. It is. Tina Estrella: Maybe that was this tiny little step that you did, you know, and the processes themselves. So in all of those practices, there's always like a certain process, a certain meditative sequence that you walk through to connect you with it. And that is very, it's very nervous system supportive. It doesn't like push you into those hangovers like Peter: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: in other shadow work practices, would have intense hangovers the days after because it was just so much stuff coming up, like you said, that stored stuff from your childhood. And with internal family systems, also with existential kink, that does not happen that much because you don't push that far that fast. So it's a very sustainable and still yet super extreme. For me, it was the fastest Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tina Estrella: In the end, because always going over the edge with my nervous system would have me have like super much breakdowns, hangovers for days and weeks. So ultimately in the end, that slower and more gentle approach, but steady without the hangovers would give me results in the end faster because I wouldn't break down all the time in between. Peter: Yeah, no, my thoughts is I kind of like the aggressiveness, but it's the way it applies to me. you know, that's just coming from my own experience. For other people, know, Tina's route may be better for you. It's just, you know, whatever fits best for you at the end of the day, honestly, whatever approach gets through you, gets you to where you need to be is the way you need to go, though. Don't take what I do is what you should do. know, Tina's doing what worked for her. But, you know, there's so many different ways to look at it that, you know, depending on how it applies to you in some way. You know, because to me, I was just like, I had to take that hard look at what was going on and it was just slapping you in the face the whole way through. you're you know, it's like that metaphor where you're like you're sitting out there riding the motorcycle, the bugs hit you in the face kind of thing. You're just getting shit hitting you. You know, different things are hitting you. And it's like you've got to deal with it, though. You know what I mean? And it's like it felt felt. don't think I had to hang over. So I was prepared. I think I was at that point where I was just like, you know, fuck it, I'm going to ride this thing out. Tina Estrella: No! Yeah. Yeah. Peter: and just see what happens. Because I'm the type of person where I'm just like, you know what, I'll just wake up one day and like, you know what, fuck it, let's just go for it. So I was like, you know what, let's go for it. Instead of blaming everybody for my own problems, let me go look and see what I took place in. And I woke up that one day and was just like, you know what, I'm going to try this and see what happens. Because if not, what else is going to, what else can I do? Continues to this path I'm on, which was not leading me anywhere but going down to the ground. Now it's like everything I look at has been flipped prospectively. Now I look at things in a different way. People are looking at me in a different way and they're like, well, I can see a change in you. I notice your mood changed and things you're doing differently. you know, and it's that other stuff I thrive on too is that people just noticing I'm making a change because that's, know, I'm trying to change for them. You know, like, like I said, I have three daughters. They, they want to nothing do with me. I was not the pleasant person to be around. So I don't blame them. Honestly, I was a horrible fucking person. I look back at it. I was a terrible person. But I can admit that though. And that's the hardest thing though. And that's the hardest part though. You know what I mean? But it's hard because people that know me before would say, well, I'd never admit it. I always make up a reason why. I always avoid taking blame for what I did. And now it's differently. Now I'm taking blame for these things. And it's a way different way people are looking at me. And now I do this podcast. Tina Estrella: I know, I know. So was I. Yeah. Peter: A lot of things have come to light. A lot of people didn't know a lot of things about me before, the things I struggled with, you know, like the whole first season of the show, I was in such a bad, depressed, impressive mode that like where I was in the camera, you can see where I was, I was recording. I never left that room for the whole day until I went to work because I worked nights. So I'd go there, stay there all day and be in this room, complete darkness, swallowing my own depression, but no one had ever even know because I didn't tell anybody, you know. And then when I started becoming a little more open about it, Tina Estrella: Yeah. Yeah. Peter: I found that more people could handle the conversation because that was my biggest fear. It's like when you start talking to people, you don't know if they're ready for this conversation that you're about to have. And I think when it comes to mental health, that's the problem for a lot of people. It's like when you start talking about things, people start getting worried because if you bring up suicide, they start freaking out like, oh God, oh no. Stuff like that. But at the same time though, doing the show, understand that grief and all these other things are just not topics some people can handle. Tina Estrella: Absolutely, absolutely. Peter: You know, and it's okay if they're freaking out because that just means they're not just they're not ready for the conversation. And that's all right. That just means that's not the person I'm calling in a crisis. Tina Estrella: And that's why we have therapists and coaches and coaching communities and podcasts and all that kind of stuff is because very often the very close people to us are not the right people to talk about this because they're not health profession, mental health professionals. They don't have the training and they don't have the distance also like a good coach, a good therapist. Peter: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Tina Estrella: You have both, have the complete insight very quickly into that person's psyche, into reading their nervous system, into like having a strong signal about what is actually going on with them. And you have also the distance of like, this is not my brother, this is not my husband, this is not my daughter. So you can stay neutral. And that is very often ⁓ important for ⁓ that person also to reveal. their deepest, darkest, shadowy things. Cause they know they're not a burden to me. First of all, they pay me. And second of all, I am trained in holding those things and being like, yeah, been there too. Totally okay. know, that stigma is not so intense. Yeah, that's a big part of it. It's like, it's... Peter: Yeah. I'm just laughing when you said they pay me. Well, you know, because when think about it, me and my guest prior to this interview, we were talking about the same thing. He mentioned the same things. Like if you're to pay for it, you might as well go do something with it. know, like therapy, people go to therapy sometimes pay just to pay them to listen. Like, listen, you want to pay me to be a professional listener? I got you. Tina Estrella: I swear for a lot of people that is the main thing for them to like, I notice when they're like realizing, ⁓ God, we're already halfway through the session. I know I paid for it. And then like, that is the motivation to like finally drop, drop that thing that we're still like, I don't know. Can I do a shell? I will. And then they realize like, ⁓ my God, sessions half the way through. Okay. I better go now. And then boom out there it is. And then we can work it with it. It is, it is an important, it's an energetic thing, you know, it's a, it's a, it's an, creates an energetic balance if you, because it is intense for looking at people's darkest things. Being able to look into the abyss without flinching in my perspective is one of the, is one of the, still hold the container with love and compassion and kindness. Peter: Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, you're right. Tina Estrella: And ⁓ but not going into the bullshit story. That is, in my perspective, one of the most critical skills a coach and therapist can bring. Just be like, yeah. I know my, like I have done before I started with ⁓ getting coached myself, I had like ⁓ many years of classical psychotherapy. Because like I said, I was like deep down in addiction, substance addiction, ⁓ self injury, whatever not. Peter: Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: And I remember one of the therapists who really shifted things for me, she was like, yeah, you told me the exact same thing last week. What changed? And then I was like, ⁓ okay. Okay. This is not the typical that you're used to like, you know, getting cuddled on the head for all poor girl. You like having it so hard. No, no, no, no. She was like exactly that thing. She held it with love and kindness and clarity, but Peter: Yeah. Tina Estrella: absolutely also no bullshit attitude was like, and that changed that allowed me to like really start to get honest with myself. You're like, yeah, she's actually right. What did I change from last week? Nothing. I'm just here rambling about myself once more. Yeah. Peter: Yeah. Hahaha! Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. Yeah. You know, and I think that's where people get caught in that endless loop of therapy is they're just like, they're there just to have something. Like I said, it's a pay me professional listener. Hey, listen, I got you. Like you could, I'll sit there and listen to whatever you want all day. You just let me know. I'll send you my rates. All right. You know, because that's really what you're doing. You're not taking advantage of the fact these people have the skill set to help you, you know, and it's a two way road, honestly, because the other side should be pushing for them to do something. You hey, listen, Let's work on something else. Put a goal here. Let's get something going that way. We can make some progress here, you know, and things like that, too, you know, because if we're I'm not doing anything, I'm just being paid to sit here and listen to you kind of thing, you know, in. Tina Estrella: Yeah. And ask you clever questions, like questions that really, like asking questions that let people look into places where they are all still having their blind spots. Cause that's why they are called blind spots, because you cannot look them by, you don't get there by yourself. So, or at least in that, that, in that time, you know, sometimes we over... Peter: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Tina Estrella: decades at some point we have an epiphany and we're like, ⁓ yeah. And then you like get into a blind spot by yourself, but a good therapist, a good coach, they're like, they see your blind spots before, like long before you're like even suspecting where you're at. Yeah. Peter: Alright. Yeah, exactly. know, then that's a good thing too, you know, and then sometimes it takes a few people to find somebody that fits you. You know, and I think that's the other thing too, people fuck up with it. They go, well, I'm just going to stay with the same person. know, it's not working, but it's like, hello, advocate for yourself at this point. If it's not working, go find somebody that's going to work for you because you're paying them. You know, and people like Tina already understand that if she's not a fit for you, somebody else may be a fit for you. So don't use that as an excuse either. ⁓ well, I don't want to... Tina Estrella: Early! Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Peter: I don't want to hurt her feeling. Trust me, Tina doesn't care at this point. She's like, if I'm not working for you, it's really not a big sweat. You're good. I'd rather you go get the help you need, because if I'm not effective for you, you're just paying me here to hang out with you. Tina Estrella: That's what I'm also always saying, like a good coach, a good therapist optimizes for that person not being endlessly their client. Because if you like keeping them forever on that leash with you, you're kind of missing the point of your whole existence. My perspective, you know? Peter: Mm-hmm. That could be a new business idea though, rent a friend, you know, we'll have to think about that one. ⁓ Tina Estrella: Ideally, someone does not need my services into Infinity. Ideally, at some point, they'd like take away the support wheels of the bike and they'd ride that thing by themselves. Peter: Exactly. No, I agree. I agree. Well, Tina, we're at the part of the interview where I told you before we start recording and we're going to ask you two questions. OK, so the first question for you is kind of a fun one. So the question to you is, is that if your mental health had a song, OK, what would you say that song would be? This is a fun one, I'm telling you. Tina Estrella: Mmm. ⁓ my, you mean my current mental health or mental health in German? Peter: Yes, your current mental, you can break it down however you like. So I'm interested to hear your answer. Tina Estrella: That's very interesting. I never thought about that. Peter: This question comes credit to my friend from another podcast she runs called The Shit That Goes On Her Head. When we interviewed, she asked me the same question. I was like, you know what, that's a really great question. And I'm a big music guy, so I like to hear other people's thoughts on what they would say would fall in those categories. Tina Estrella: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, I think it would be like a trilogy or something. Cause I find I like, especially with the ADHD, I find it very hard to like narrow down to one thing. But what I'm really like parting heart at the moment is where the fuck is my husband? I'm loving that song. Cause I'm turning 50 this year and I'm like, God, like seriously, all the manifestation work, all the Venus prayer, whatever, not, I love my life. And also where the fuck is my husband? Peter: Mm-hmm. That's great. That's fucking great. I love that. That's awesome. Tina Estrella: So that is one. That is one. When that plays in the supermarket, I start dancing it out wide and being like, okay, I'm using this to really manifest. ⁓ Peter: Hahaha. She's like, where's it at? I'm waiting. Hello. Ha ha. Right here. Tina Estrella: Yeah, I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. That man is testing my patience. Like, I love that really. That song is very fun. What else? Peter: Right? Tina Estrella: I'm blanking right now, to be honest. Let's keep it with that. There's like, I wouldn't have to look at my playlist because there's many who like I really resonate with. Currently. Peter: No, you're good. That's a good one. We'll go with that one. That was great though. That was great. We had one person, he went on his playlist. We had Anthony Spark on and Anthony was going through his whole playlist. Like, okay, Pete, I got you, man. I just started listing off like those. I'm like, all right, bro, okay, okay, that's cool, you know? Just started listing off a bunch of the songs. like, all right, all right, yeah, all right, man. So, my question for you and the last question I have before we start wrapping this thing up is I have a question for you. Basically, the reason this podcast even started. was if you could break the stigma about mental health. Now when I ask you this question, I am asking you in the way of something that you hear people repeat constantly that you just want them to stop believing. What would you say that one thing would be? Tina Estrella: that they're inner critic, they need to like hush down their inner critic. Don't. You wanna like listen to them, but listen for real. The more you start to, you try to push internal parts away, what you resist persists. Like back to this ⁓ shadow work. ⁓ misunderstanding of, I need to get rid of that. I need to get rid of my anxiety. Even the title of your podcast was a little bit like, do I really go along with this podcast? But I know where it came from, so it does make sense. We evolve over time. So don't fight your anxiety. Don't fight your depression. That does not work. You need to integrate that shit. You need to like, who is the part of you who believes that depression is the only way to give you Peter: Yeah. Tina Estrella: Probably something like internal peace, you know, or something like anxiety. me, know anxiety very often what she's trying to give me is belonging and connection and human connection. That's why dating can be a really a challenge for me. I just unsubscribe from Hinge again, because it was just fueling the anxiety so much. I was like, Tina, that is not your way to meet a person. It's not by an app that is like... Peter: Yeah, that's a whole nother episode right there. Tina Estrella: Also messing with your dopamine system for the ADHD people, very, very challenging anyway. So don't try to get rid of your mental health issues. The issues, yes, but not off the parts because they are there. Once you learn to communicate with them properly and you find out what they're so sweet, they're so tender. There's such sweet little. Peter: Yeah. Yeah. do. Tina Estrella: kids inside of you, former versions of you who didn't know how to do things at the time. So once you start to really connect with them, ⁓ my God, it is such a loving relationship that you start to build and it's really like, it's, it, yeah, that's my message. Peter: Yeah. I agree. I agree because I use my anxiety. My anxiety is my superpower basically now because like I use it as a hypersense of things like a lot of times when my anxiety is really high, my heart's racing. Usually means there's something I need to be aware of. So I'm always constantly so, you know, but but the show title throws a lot of people off. fun, though. I I love the title is great. And when I thought about it, because in the beginning it was a battle of me versus my anxiety. But now it's now it's more of me controlling it. Mm Tina Estrella: Absolutely, absolutely. It is, it is. Because we didn't know, you know? Yeah. Because still a lot of people, that is what mental health still is in a lot of people's minds is I need to get rid of this thing. I need to get rid of it. It needs to go away. I don't want this anymore. And yes, of course, the pattern, the behavior, the structure, the reoccurring loops that you put yourself in. Yes, that's not something you want to keep experiencing forever. Peter: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tina Estrella: And also full approval of that thing, of that pattern being part of your personality right now is, is that's the base ground for any sustainable shift. Cause if you shove it deeper down, it will just come back up a lot louder again and again. Peter: ⁓ yeah, we know what happens. Tell them. Exactly. Tina, with that being said, we're going to wrap up this episode of Peter Society. Before we do wrap up, why don't you tell everybody where they can find you? What's the best place for them to reach, Tina? Tina Estrella: Okay. So ideally under the Linktree link, if you share those things, I'm not sure because my Linktree is very super complete. Everything is there. And so on the socials, it's either flow state manager, Tina, because that's what I call this stuff that I do is flow state management, or it's Tina Estrella on YouTube. And also my webpage is tinaestrella.com. Yeah. Peter: Yeah, I can put all that in the description for sure. Love it, love it. Yes, Tina, we can put all that down there. can put your link down there if you want in the description of this video for anybody that's listening at home. It'll be in the episode description for you guys. That way can reach out to Tina. Tina, thank you so much for coming to hang out with us. This was a fantastic time. I had a really great time hanging out with you. Tina Estrella: It's... Thank you, Pierre. That was a very fun conversation. Thank you. Peter: Guys, and with that being said, we're gonna wrap up this episode of Pete First Anxiety. You know where to find me Pete First Anxiety? I'm X all the down to TikTok. I'm on Spotify all the way down to iHeartRadio and Pandora too. And as I always say, it costs nothing, nothing to be kind to somebody. One kind act you can do can save someone's life or hell, you can make their day. I'm Pete First Anxiety signing off saying, don't ask how your day is today. Say, hey, how's your mental health?